Del St Talks Move out of MEAC, HBCU FB

[TexasTerror]

Wonder what this discussion being brought up by a white AD will mean to things. Chuck Bell seems to want Delaware St out of the MEAC and into FBS football. Also talks about HBCU football not being needed right now. Bell believes that, "the MEAC even perpetuates racial segregation, something it was fighting when it started in 1971."

The football coach agrees, "that historically black conferences are obsolete." Article brings up that TnSt was the only one to leave a HBCU conference successfully and that FAMU tried to move on up, but failed.

Very intriguing read...
--------------
At Delaware State University, a founding member of the MEAC that has just more than 3,000 students, athletic director Chuck Bell and football coach Al Lavan believe historically black conferences are no longer necessary.

"Absolutely not," Bell said. "There's not even a need for a [historically black] or Hispanic or Asian college. That's wrong. There is a need for access for all students, but not based on race.

"Why hang on to something that comes from segregation days?"

From a purely economic standpoint, Bell, DSU's first white athletic director, believes DSU must change.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070306/SPORTS08/703060342/1002

[AppGuy04]

You would think race would be kept out of this, but don't think thats a possibility

[youwouldno]

Well if he thinks Del St can be FBS he's delusional and thus his judgment is suspect across the board.

[89Hen]

Chuck Bell seems to want Delaware St out of the MEAC and into FBS football.
xlolx xlolx xidiotx xidiotx :nonono2: :nonono2:

That's the most ridiculous thing I've read all week. There was talk about it a couple years ago when DSU was trying to get the state to build them a new stadium, but I always thought it was only because of the desire for a stadium that the talk was there. But to bring it up again in 2007? :cool:

[mainejeff]

Is Delaware State a public university? (I assume that it is)

What is the racial breakdown of students?

[89Hen]

Is Delaware State a public university? (I assume that it is)

What is the racial breakdown of students?
It is public and if I remember correctly the percentage of white students was on the rise there (maybe reached 30%) but I think has gone back down under 20%.

[MR. CHICKEN]

ALL O' DIS FROM DUH SAME AD......DAT ACCUSES DELAWARE...OF BEIN' RACIST....FO' NOT PLAYIN' DUH HORNETS IN FOOTBALL??????....AWQ??

AN' YEAH........SESSOMS & WHITE.....ARE DILUSIONAL!

[henfan]

The movement at DSU away from the strict HBU identity emanates from the top down. Alan Sessoms was brought in by the Trustees to make changes at the school. He hired Chuck Bell and Al Lavan to take DSU athletics in a different direction.

Given the current political climate at DSU, that may be difficult to accomplish in the short term. Longer term, assuming Sessoms survives the changes he's attempting to implement, DSU will be primed to move out of the MEAC, as part of the school's new identity. We'll see if that happends.

Chuck Bell, who I've never had a lot of respect for, seems to only half understand what's going on here. One one hand he's spot on, DSU is constrained in many ways by its HBU identity. If the school ever hopes to be its very best, it's going to have to continue to change, just like any other school. Those changes will have to include augementing its identity. That's not different from the type of changes so many other schools have undergone over the centuries. (Thankfully, the University of Delaware was once a small female college.)

On the other hand, change shouldn't mean a complete abandonment of DSU's heritage. There is so much for DSU to be proud of and its HBU history should be acknowledged and celebrated regularly. It's really ignorant for Bell to suggest that there's nothing for HBUs to celebrate.

There's so much that DSU could do to better serve all Delawareans. It's going to take the Powers That Be at DSU waking up and realizing the incredible opportunity before them.

[MplsBison]

I could see moving out of the MEAC to another conference in FCS, but not FBS.


Also, just curious, why are there so many HBCUs in the Washington/Baltimore area?

I count Howard, Coppin, Morgan, UMES, and Del State!

None of those were slave states, were they?

[henfan]

Is Delaware State a public university? (I assume that it is)

What is the racial breakdown of students?

DSU is technically quasi-public in the very same way that UD is quasi-public. Both schools receive a share of State support, but are barely accountable to taxpayers in most regards. Like UD, DSU's Board of Trustees operate as an independent, non-public body. Neither schools' books are open to the pubic.

As of last count (Oct. 2005), DSU's 'white' enrollment is at 14%. It has been up as high as 20% earlier in the decade.
http://www.desu.edu/advancement/pr/press_release.php?article_id=157

[dbackjon]

I could see moving out of the MEAC to another conference in FCS, but not FBS.


Also, just curious, why are there so many HBCUs in the Washington/Baltimore area?

I count Howard, Coppin, Morgan, UMES, and Del State!

None of those were slave states, were they?

Maryland and Delaware were slave states that did not secede.

[MplsBison]

But PA and NJ did not allow slavery?

Seems like it would be a pretty easy jump across the border for DE and MD slaves.

[henfan]

I count Howard, Coppin, Morgan, UMES, and Del State!

None of those were slave states, were they?

Maryland and Delaware were both slave states. During the war, many northern Delawareans enlisted and fought on the side of the Union, while landowning southern Delawareans supported the Confederacy.

Here's a summary of Delaware's history:
http://www.slavenorth.com/delaware.htm

[Appstate29]

I could see moving out of the MEAC to another conference in FCS, but not FBS.


Also, just curious, why are there so many HBCUs in the Washington/Baltimore area?

I count Howard, Coppin, Morgan, UMES, and Del State!

None of those were slave states, were they?

Racism didn't stop with slavery...:twocents: :twocents:

[UAalum72]

But PA and NJ did not allow slavery?

Seems like it would be a pretty easy jump across the border for DE and MD slaves.
Which is why slavecatchers concentrated patrols near the border.

[bosshogg]

I feel that SCSU needs to look beyond the MEAC......just because we are an HBCU doesn't mean we have to stay in the no leadership having MEAC........our past is important, but our future is also important....I have advocated leavin the meac for a long time, as the commishioner is a joke, and there is no direction for the conference.......

we have ltos of older alumni who will come in here and say how we should NEVER leave the MEAC....but most younger , more progressive alumni support looking at our options....

BIG SOUTH SEND HELP!


more discussion here on the SCSU board

http://scstatedoghouse.proboards100.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=bulldogsports&thread=1173189182&page=1

[Cobblestone]

Delaware State has the best marching band I've ever seen. I was glad they came up when we played them, some folks left after halftime since they came just to see the band. That was the first and only time I've ever seen that happen.

[henfan]

Bosshog, do you think a conference decision for the MEAC champ to not participate in the FCS playoffs would tip SCSU's hand? I don't know for sure, but I'd bet it would have that effect at DSU.

[bosshogg]

I can't say I know for sure what the admisnistration would do...I know our president and football coach want to be in the playoffs....so I THINK they would leave....

what I KNOW is that our YOUNGER FANS AND ALUMNI WOULD BE IN AN UPROAR AND DEMAND THAT WE LEAVE......some of our older alumni are still stuck in the past......but most of us want to leave right now...and certainly would want to leave if we left the FCS playoffs.....

[andy7171]

I could see moving out of the MEAC to another conference in FCS, but not FBS.


Also, just curious, why are there so many HBCUs in the Washington/Baltimore area?

I count Howard, Coppin, Morgan, UMES, and Del State!

None of those were slave states, were they?
Don't forget Bowie State.
Maryland was a free state, but with slaves. 75% of the Maryland legislation was jailed and the state was occupied by Union forces. Lincoln didn't want to be in DC and surrounded by Confederate states. The Emancipation Proclaimation didn't free all the slaves, it freed all the slaves in the sessionist states.

But that doesn't have anything to do with the creation of HBCUs. Its a high population area. Baltimore City and Washington DC are majority black. I don't think its a high concentration of HBCUs, just a reflection of the demographics.

I'm sure someone else may have a better explanation.


Oh and DelState going to FBS is ABSURD.

[MplsBison]

Would SC State go to the Big South?

[bosshogg]

The Big South would be an option. One that the Bulldog Nation would support

[andy7171]

Delaware State has the best marching band I've ever seen. I was glad they came up when we played them, some folks left after halftime since they came just to see the band. That was the first and only time I've ever seen that happen.
DelState, MorganSt, Howard all have fine marching bands. They put on a show no matter how the team is doing.:thumbsup:

[DFW HOYA]

Another quote from the article:

"Thomas is trying to bolster the historically black athletic tradition. He is in negotiations with the historically black Southwestern Athletic Conference to partner in a championship football game. Such a move would remove MEAC schools from contention for the I-AA football playoffs."

[MR. CHICKEN]

I feel that SCSU needs to look beyond the MEAC......just because we are an HBCU doesn't mean we have to stay in the no leadership having MEAC........our past is important, but our future is also important....I have advocated leavin the meac for a long time, as the commishioner is a joke, and there is no direction for the conference.......

we have ltos of older alumni who will come in here and say how we should NEVER leave the MEAC....but most younger , more progressive alumni support looking at our options....

BIG SOUTH SEND HELP!


more discussion here on the SCSU board

http://scstatedoghouse.proboards100.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=bulldogsports&thread=1173189182&page=1

SAME PROBLEM....SESSOMS etal.......ARE EXPERIENCIN'.....IN DOVERAH..... ALONG WHIFF DUH ALUMS....DUH STUDENTS......ARE FIGHTIN'.....SUCH THINGS...AS.....HIS REQUEST DAT DUH "STAR SPANGLED BANNER"...BE PLAYED AHEAD O' DERE BLACK ANTHEM!......EVERAH-ONE INVOLVED...IS RELUCTANT TA CHANGE/SUPPORT................:(....DOODLE-DOO-DOO!

[MplsBison]

The Big South would be an option. One that the Bulldog Nation would support

Would you mind playing Chuck South and Coastal?

[andy7171]

Would you mind playing Chuck South and Coastal?
Why would they mind? Are CCU and CSU so much better or worse than what the MEAC brings?

[bosshogg]

We already have a good rivalry with Coastal that I wish we were playing this season......yes, I would not mind playing coastal or CSU...

I lwould love a scheudle that looked like this..




Coastal
Chas Southern
Presbyterian
Liberty
VMI
N.C. A&T
FAMU
Hampton
Elon
Ga. Southern
and at least 1 1-A school


so we could play our HBCu rivals, and our in state and local area PWC rivals as well....this could be done as a member if of the Big South

[HIU 93]

I could see moving out of the MEAC to another conference in FCS, but not FBS.


Also, just curious, why are there so many HBCUs in the Washington/Baltimore area?

I count Howard, Coppin, Morgan, UMES, and Del State!

None of those were slave states, were they?

Yes, they were, and segregation was the law in MD and DE.

[HIU 93]

Don't forget Bowie State.
Maryland was a free state, but with slaves. 75% of the Maryland legislation was jailed and the state was occupied by Union forces. Lincoln didn't want to be in DC and surrounded by Confederate states. The Emancipation Proclaimation didn't free all the slaves, it freed all the slaves in the sessionist states.

But that doesn't have anything to do with the creation of HBCUs. Its a high population area. Baltimore City and Washington DC are majority black. I don't think its a high concentration of HBCUs, just a reflection of the demographics.

I'm sure someone else may have a better explanation.


Oh and DelState going to FBS is ABSURD.

Population didn't have anything to do with it. DC, MD, and DE ALL practiced legal segregation and forbid the integration of schools, public and private. Howard was actually founded by the Freedmen's Bureau for the express purpose of educating former slaves and their children. It later became a private institution, however it still existed under the yoke of segregation.

[andy7171]

Population didn't have anything to do with it. DC, MD, and DE ALL practiced legal segregation and forbid the integration of schools, public and private. Howard was actually founded by the Freedmen's Bureau for the express purpose of educating former slaves and their children. It later became a private institution, however it still existed under the yoke of segregation.
My point is that there is a high population in the Baltimore Washington corridor. So there is a concentration of the HB schools. You aren't going to have 5 HB colleges within a 10 mile radius in the mountains of West Virginia are you?

[henfan]

Oh and DelState going to FBS is ABSURD.

Agreed. I think this was part of Dr. Sessoms' education process when he came on board. I don't know that DSU is seriously thinking in terms of the FBS any longer. It seemed more a whim of Sessoms, before he learned how bad off his athletic department was and how little he could depend on the DE legis for support in building up DSU's facilities.

The Big South, NEC or (longshot) the America East should be more realistic goals.:twocents:

[TexasTerror]

Whether or not they stick to the MEAC...

Delaware St is an HBCU. This can not be taken away from them. Same goes for South Carolina St and whomever is looking beyond the MEAC's gates...

I don't see what the big deal is. Now FBS pipe-dreams, that's a bit much for the Hornets who have got to get their act together on numerous fronts...just look here... http://www.gohornets.net/

[89Hen]

As of last count (Oct. 2005), DSU's 'white' enrollment is at 14%. It has been up as high as 20% earlier in the decade.
Found something to support my 30% figure...

Top white enrollments, by percentage, 1994
8. Delaware State (Del.) 29% white

http://www.jointcenter.org/databank/educationfinal/1997%20Educational%20Digest/Enrol-HiEd/reference1.htm

[HIU 93]

If DSU wants to leave, what's stopping them? They don't have to have permission from the MEAC to go. DSU's reasons for wanting to leave, however, irk me. Their reasoning, from their lips, is that HBCU's and an HBCU conference aren't any good because they are Black. I do not support that notion, and there is no factual evidence to support that notion. If DSU was FAMU and wanted leave simply because they wanted to compete at a higher level, wanted to make more money, or some similar reason, I would wish them luck. That's not their reason. When they state that being an HBCU hurts them and being in an HBCU conference is bad, that has nothing to do with sports. That logic assumes that the white people's grass is greener and their ice is colder. That is not true, but if that is the logic that DSU wants to use, I say good riddance. Do they need help? I'll file the papers for them. I figure, the quicker they leave, the better. Tennessee State was forced by the state to join a non-HBCU conference. Have they done any better athletically since joining the OVC? No. Has the school become a greater institution from being in the OVC? No. In fact, all that has happened is that they are in a non-HBCU conference. Sitting beside someone white doesn't make you better, richer, or smarter, but if DSU wants to think it does, then Happy Trails to them.

[henfan]

Found something to support my 30% figure...

Top white enrollments, by percentage, 1994
8. Delaware State (Del.) 29% white

http://www.jointcenter.org/databank/educationfinal/1997%20Educational%20Digest/Enrol-HiEd/reference1.htm

Yup. Thanks for that. I didn't intend to suggest that you were incorrect, just that the numbers in this decade haven't really changed all that much.

There was a movement towards the end of DeLauder's time away from the commuter profile and more towards a residential campus, which impacted those enrollment percentages considerably. In time, I wouldn't be surprised to see the percentages even higher than 30%, if Sessoms continues to make headway in making the campus in his image.

[HIU 93]

My point is that there is a high population in the Baltimore Washington corridor. So there is a concentration of the HB schools. You aren't going to have 5 HB colleges within a 10 mile radius in the mountains of West Virginia are you?

They are not within a ten mile radius of each other in DC and Baltimore either.

[89Hen]

Their reasoning, from their lips, is that HBCU's and an HBCU conference aren't any good because they are Black. I do not support that notion, and there is no factual evidence to support that notion.
What if DSU feels they are losing recruits who don't want to go to an HBCU? Maybe they gain some for the same reason, but they could feel that being labeled is a bad thing for them. :twocents:

FWIW, HBCU's call themselves HBCU's. PWC's don't call themselves PWC's.

[andy7171]

They are not within a ten mile radius of each other in DC and Baltimore either.
Make it 15 miles and I bet you could get MorganSt, CoppinSt, Bowie St, UMES and Howard. 20 could get you out to Dover. :read:

[89Hen]

Make it 15 miles and I bet you could get MorganSt, CoppinSt, Bowie St, UMES and Howard. 20 could get you out to Dover. :read:
Yikes, I want to drive in your world, I could make it to the beach in half an hour! :p :D

[andy7171]

Yikes, I want to drive in your world, I could make it to the beach in half an hour! :p :D
Eh crap! I thought UMES was in Centerville. Its in GD'ed Salibury. Yet another reason Maryland should give the Eastern Shore to Delaware.

Fine I surrender. 3 HBUs in a 10 mile radius. Morgan, Coppin and Bowie. All because of the large concentration of African Americans in the Baltimore Metro area AND because of Marylands segregation laws.

[CCU97]

As for SC State and the Big South....many of SC State's posters on other sites as well as on several Big South school sites have discussed this matter in great depth....most people from Big South school's would welcome SC State with open arms and if Hampton wanted to come with them we would be more than happy to have them too....I think the straw that would break the camel's back would be if the MEAC left the playoffs....

[henfan]

If DSU wants to leave, what's stopping them?

Namely a fanatical group of insur, change-fearing alumni and the members of the legis who enable them. If you lived in Delaware, you'd recognize it as the sorry state it is.


DSU's reasons for wanting to leave, however, irk me. Their reasoning, from their lips, is that HBCU's and an HBCU conference aren't any good because they are Black.

Your emotions are causing you to miss the point entirely. It probably doesn't help to have a guy like Chuck Bell trying to articulate DSU's vision.: smh :

Simply put, some leaders at DSU (the BOT and CEO) seek to expand the school beyond its HBU status. The HBU philosophy may not be the most beneficial one for a school attempting to diversify its student population. They seem to believe that the MEAC's image narrowly defines its members in one way. That image may be fine and even critical for most MEAC members, but understand that it may also not jibe at some point with DSU's institutional philosophy. When it no longer applies, they'll split.

While they share a similar history as HBU's, Hampton and DSU's current academic, financial and political situations are entirely different. I'll also remind you that Hampton has made official applications to the Southern and Colonial while being members of the MEAC. Evidence that it's always good to keep your options open and that change is the only constant.

[henfan]

Yet another reason Maryland should give the Eastern Shore to Delaware.

Nope, the Calverts and Penns settled that long ago.

Now, if DE could just get NJ from impeding upon its territorial rights in the Delaware River...:nono:

[stonywolf]

Just because DSU is a "Black School" DOESNT mean its segregated. to me, thats just ignorant. Thats why its called a historically black college, because historically, in the days of segregation, it was a black school. To say its a black school now is to say that students of other races arent allowed to attend.

Nothings wrong with wanting to "move up", but damn man, dont state segregation as the reason.

Anyway, if DSU REALLY wants to move up.... they got alot of work to do....!

[HIU 93]

I'll also remind you that Hampton has made official applications to the Southern and Colonial while being members of the MEAC. Evidence that it's always good to keep your options open and that change is the only constant.

Yeah, but we were attempting to leave strictly for sports, mainly basketball, reasons. We are not and never will shy from our history nor will we shy from being an HBCU simply because we think Black isn't good enough. As I said in the other post, I would never disparage someone for wanting to leave an athletic conference for athletic and financial reasons. That is not what the AD and President were quoted as saying in the article. They said, for all intents and purposes, that they don't want to be associated with HBCUs because HBCUs are second class. So DSU- in the words of Soul II Soul- "Keep on Movin' ".

PS- We only officially applied to the A-10. The Colonial and SOCON were just unofficial discussions.

[HIU 93]

As for SC State and the Big South....many of SC State's posters on other sites as well as on several Big South school sites have discussed this matter in great depth....most people from Big South school's would welcome SC State with open arms and if Hampton wanted to come with them we would be more than happy to have them too....I think the straw that would break the camel's back would be if the MEAC left the playoffs....

We are not going to join the Big South and lose an automatic playoff berth in football.

Our reasons for attempting to move were motivated by our success in Basketball a few years ago. There hasn't been an attempt to move since then.

[MplsBison]

nor will we shy from being an HBCU simply because we think Black isn't good enough.


You're the only one saying that.


henfan put it very nicely:


The HBU philosophy may not be the most beneficial one for a school attempting to diversify its student population. They seem to believe that the MEAC's image narrowly defines its members in one way. That image may be fine and even critical for most MEAC members, but understand that it may also not jibe at some point with DSU's institutional philosophy.

[MplsBison]

Nope, the Calverts and Penns settled that long ago.

How could they possibly decide a border in such an arbitrary fashion?

"Ye from hither forward, the states of Delaware and Maryland shall forth be separated by 2 arbitrary lines that intersect in a non right angle".

[greenG]

I could see moving out of the MEAC to another conference in FCS, but not FBS.


Also, just curious, why are there so many HBCUs in the Washington/Baltimore area?

I count Howard, Coppin, Morgan, UMES, and Del State!

None of those were slave states, were they?

Both Maryland and Delaware were slave states that didn't join the Confederacy, mostly, in the case of Maryland, because of the presence of Union troops all over Baltimore. Others were Kentucky and Missouri.

[MplsBison]

because of the presence of Union troops all over Baltimore

Yet VA got away with it?

[HIU 93]

What if DSU feels they are losing recruits who don't want to go to an HBCU? Maybe they gain some for the same reason, but they could feel that being labeled is a bad thing for them. :twocents:

FWIW, HBCU's call themselves HBCU's. PWC's don't call themselves PWC's.

No, the federal government designates us as HBCUs. However, it does not matter what the schools are called, there will still be schools that have a majority white student population, and there will still be schools that have a majority Black student population.

Personally, I don't give a flying fcuk what DSU does. I am, however, quite perturbed by this asinine assumption that Black people are the purveyors of racism and prejudice in this country.

I'm not going to mention the obvious historical reasons why that isn't true. I'm just going to talk about today.

Today, how many white people do you know that attend a historically or predominantly Black church?

How many white people do you know that choose to be buried in a historically or predominantly Black cemetery?

We didn't start this system. Our ancestors didn't start this system. This system wasn't perpetuated by people that look like me. However, people that look like me were able to create institutions because we weren't allowed into the ones that everybody else were. Those institutions became traditions. Now, people want us to end our traditions because it makes them feel uncomfortable to remember what their ancestors created.

It is not OUR prejudice that keeps white folks from wanting to pray with us, go to school with us, or even be buried beside us. Again, we didn't create this system. We have just been able to thrive within it.

[HIU 93]

You're the only one saying that.

No. The DSU AD and President are saying that quite clearly in that article.

Since "...henfan put it best...", and both of you seem to know so much about HBCUs, what is "...the HBCU philosophy..."?

[MplsBison]

As far as I'm concerned, as long as a school isn't breaking the law by disallowing a student to enroll based only on the color of his skin, the school can choose to recruit students in any way it wants.

[greenG]

Eh crap! I thought UMES was in Centerville. Its in GD'ed Salibury. Yet another reason Maryland should give the Eastern Shore to Delaware.


The University of Maryland-Eastern Shore (http://www.umes.edu/) is in Princess Anne. Salisbury University (http://www.salisbury.edu/) is in Salisbury, MD.

[henfan]

We are not and never will shy from our history nor will we shy from being an HBCU simply because we think Black isn't good enough.

No one at DSU has ever said that "Black isn't good enough." I think you're reading way too much into the comments. It's more like "exclusively black" no longer fits.

DSU officials might have suggested and even said that being exclusively labeled in one way or another may not best serve them. However, it's self-evident that the HBU foundation will always be part of the school's heritage. The question is whether the label should continue to define the school in those narrow terms. It's a battle that's raging at DSU.

What I did read Bell say was that there was a good deal of acceptance a negative status quo in the MEAC and elsewhere and that it should stop. If it did, I'd suspect that DSU wouldn't have to go anywhere. They've got long-standing athletic rivalries with MEAC schools.


PS- We only officially applied to the A-10. The Colonial and SOCON were just unofficial discussions.

You'd know better than me for sure. However, I do recall an article from the Daily Press circa '01 quoting Dennis Thomas, then HU AD, in which he indicated that HU has applied to just about every conference on the East Coast. Thomas was distressed that he had yet to hear back from any of those conferences and specifically named the Southern and Colonial. It was a topic of discussion on the CAA message board for days. I may have a copy of the article in my archives. I'll search for it.

[HIU 93]

Make it 15 miles and I bet you could get MorganSt, CoppinSt, Bowie St, UMES and Howard. 20 could get you out to Dover. :read:

You failed geography, didn't you?xlolx

I used to live on Northern Parkway, around the way from Morgan. Morgan is more like 30-35 miles from Bowie. Morgan is about ten miles from Coppin. Remember, Morgan is on the far Eastside of B'more, and Coppin is on the far Westside of B'more. UMES is in Princess Anne, on the Eastern shore, about three and a half hours from B'more and DC. Dover is a good hour and a half, two hours from DC. Howard to Bowie is about 25 miles, and Howard to Morgan is a good sixty miles. Howard to Coppin is about 50 miles.

[HIU 93]

No one at DSU has ever said that "Black isn't good enough." I think you're reading way too much into the comments. It's more like "exclusively black" no longer fits.

DSU officials might have suggested and even said that being exclusively labeled in one way or another may not best serve them. However, it's self-evident that the HBU foundation will always be part of the school's heritage. The question is whether the label should continue to define the school in those narrow terms. It's a battle that's raging at DSU.

What I did read Bell say was that there was a good deal of acceptance a negative status quo in the MEAC and elsewhere and that it should stop. If it did, I'd suspect that DSU wouldn't have to go anywhere. They've got long-standing athletic rivalries with MEAC schools.



You'd know better than me for sure. However, I do recall an article from the Daily Press circa '01 quoting Dennis Thomas, then HU AD, in which he indicated that HU has applied to just about every conference on the East Coast. Thomas was distressed that he had yet to hear back from any of those conferences and specifically named the Southern and Colonial. It was a topic of discussion on the CAA message board for days. I may have a copy of the article in my archives. I'll search for it.

1. DSU is not exclusively Black.
2. They might have not said it in so many words, but the codified language used is not hard to figure out.
3. There is a reason Dennis Thomas left Hampton, and it wasn't just to become commissioner of the MEAC. I'll leave it at that.

[henfan]

However, it does not matter what the schools are called, there will still be schools that have a majority white student population, and there will still be schools that have a majority Black student population.

On this point we agree. However, I think we'll also begin to see a few schools with an HBU heritage change as dictated by demographics and the financial realities of competing in the increasingly competitive world of higher education. That's the direction DSU may be headed.

Some PWUs learned this lesson during the last century.. and others, like my alma mater, sadly, had to be legislated into the modern world.


1. DSU is not exclusively Black.
2. They might have not said it in so many words, but the codified language used is not hard to figure out.
3. There is a reason Dennis Thomas left Hampton, and it wasn't just to become commissioner of the MEAC. I'll leave it at that.

Your last point made me smile. I'd agree.

I'm more than a little familiar with DSU, having been on the Dover campus dozens of times, and having family and friends who are alums. I've also got a family member who works at the school's Wilmington campus. I support the school through my tax dollars and charitable contributions. So, I have a vested interest in seeing the school succeed.

Again, I think you're reading way too much into the comments and taking it just a little personally. The codified comment really is that DSU is changing.

[HIU 93]

On this point we agree. However, I think we'll also begin to see schools with an HBU heritage change as dictated by demographics and the financial realities of competing in the increasingly competitive world of higher education. That's the direction DSU may be headed.

Some PWUs learned this lesson during the last century.. and others, like my alma mater, sadly, had to be legislated into the modern world.


We seem to be able to compete well in "...the increasingly competitive world of higher education..." without denying our heritage or trying to hide the majority of our student population.

The difference between your alma mater and mine is that mine has never discriminated againt anyone as school policy. The laws of the land decided that schools would be seperate, and that Black people and institutions would be relegated to second class status. No one is barred from admission to Hampton or any other HBCU as long as they meet the requirements, apply on time, and can pay. To make that comparison between HBCUs today and predominantly white institutions before desegregation is as inaccurate as it is foolish.

[aswedc]

At one time, HBCU's provided a valuable service to Black students. No one is trying to take that away from them.

But today, what exactly does HBCU mean? Is it not simply another way of saying "historically less diverse"? Hampton University, a proud historically less diverse institution! Doesn't sound so nice now does it?

It's time to lose these racial distinctions. Not closely associating with and as a HBCU doesn't mean the student body at Delaware State will suddenly be any less Black. Nor would it disrupt any traditions, unless you consider classification a tradition.

[bigbluetiger]

Tennessee State was forced by the state to join a non-HBCU conference.

This is not true. TSU was not forced by the state to join the OVC nor are we forced to stay. This has become an urban myth that is just not true. With that being said, I do believe race perception (in addition to travel costs) are one of the reasons we have remained in the OVC. However, I've heard from our AD on several occasions that we are not legally tied to the OVC. Geographically, the OVC is the best fit. From a fan interest level, it's not especially in football.

[henfan]

We seem to be able to compete well in "...the increasingly competitive world of higher education without denying our heritage or trying to hide the majority of our student population... To make that comparison between HBCUs today and predominantly white institutions before desegregation is as inaccurate as it is foolish.

Yup, Hampton does do well, which is a great thing. OTOH, DSU does not compete well, which is why the school's leaders are seeking big changes. There's not one plan that fits every school and the current educational climate is much different in Delaware than it is in Virginia, both at the high school and higher ed levels. I have faith that DSU is perfectly capable of celebrating its HBU heritage while continuing to evolve. I'm not convinced that MEAC membership is critical to the school's success.

Actually, there are similarities between the conditions surrounding some PWUs prior to deseg and a few HBCUs today. Change driven by demographic/political shifts and financial need. Notice I didn't suggest the circumstances were identical in every or most cases.

[jstate83]

At one time, HBCU's provided a valuable service to Black students. No one is trying to take that away from them.

But today, what exactly does HBCU mean? Is it not simply another way of saying "historically less diverse"? Hampton University, a proud historically less diverse institution! Doesn't sound so nice now does it?



Just what it says..................A HISTORICALLY BLACK UNIVERSITY............It's a moniker.
That's not had to figure out.

So taking this line of thought, what would these school's be called considering their minority population:

Any................
Big 10, Big 12, SEC, ACC, Pac-10, WAC, Con-USA, etc., school.
"Schools for whites and a few MINORITIES to keep our federal grants and schollies"?
It ain't like minorities are swinging from the rooftops at these schools outside of SPORT'S. :nod:

Same with just about any school in 1-AA outside of the SWAC and MEAC.
Take away the sport's teams and how often would any of you see more than 10 minorities together in any given place on your campus.

And don't lie. xlolx

[The Gadfly]

However, people that look like me were able to create institutions because we weren't allowed into the ones that everybody else were.

That means either you're white or you're not talking about Hampton or many other "Colleges in the United States of America in the 21st Century whose students and alumni of Sub-Saharan African decent take great pride in being called Historically 'Black' colleges." **whew** PC-ing everything really takes the breath right out of ya.

I think it's a great idea that the AD and president of DSU is trying to make the university multi-cultured and balanced. I also hope that they join the Big South next year with Jacksonville. Hopefully SC State will jump ship and join as well due to our friendly rivalry that has been blooming in the past 2 seasons.

[jstate83]

As for Del. St, they want to leave and try it on their own................GOD BLESS THEM.
Good luck................Mo power to ya. :nod:

Hope he thought this out and got plenty of alternative fundraising sources since going the HBCU route is "out-dated".

[BigApp]

the FBS deal might be a little far-fetched, but I applaud DSU for wanting to advance itself as a university, get beyond the term "Historically" and broaden their horizons.

[jstate83]

the FBS deal might be a little far-fetched, but I applaud DSU for wanting to advance itself as a university, get beyond the term "Historically" and broaden their horizons.


Man....................Deleware St better start raising money to up it's campus while this guy is talking about going to the top level in sports.

Jackson State put it's HBCU moniker OUT FRONT....................In Mississippi.
Same with Valley and Alcorn.

That Moniker has not hurt either school 1 bit.
In JSU's case, we have added 2 more schools to our programs and have EXPANDED our campus and facilities by 3 fold in 6 years and it's still expanding to the point where JSU ends and Downtown begins.

Anybody that had visited JSU as recently as 1997 can tell you exactly how much area that involves.
And none of it is open UNUSED space.

The School of Engineering and the Student Union are rolling on auto-pilot.
The stadium is going through the Ledgislature and now this is our next FUNDRAISER...............WHICH WAS APPROVED 3 YEARS AGO.
Now it's time to roll with it.
The money is basically there since we started a $50 million fund drive 3 years ago and is nearly half way to completion with over $20 million raised so far.

$2 Million Mansion Proposed for JSU's President and Family (http://search.clarionledger.com/sp?eId=100&gcId=2362461&rNum=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clarionledger.com%2Fapps%2Fpb cs.dll%2Farticle%3FAID%3D2007703040377&siteIdType=2)

[89Hen]

Now, people want us to end our traditions because it makes them feel uncomfortable to remember what their ancestors created.
:confused: Who are these people you refer to? Sounds like the people at DSU are saying this. :confused:

[jstate83]

School of Engineering
4212

Everything that Mr. President of Deleware St say's can be accomplished without demonizing the HBCU moniker as he has. :nono:

JSU's Journey.............Mississippi's Urban University. (http://www.diverseeducation.com/artman/publish/article_6975.shtml):thumbsup:

The Journey for Jackson State
A source of pride for its community, this HBCU has emerged as a research and public service leader in Mississippi.


By Ronald Roach
Jackson State University President Ronald Mason has big plans for the only university in Mississippi’s capital city.

JACKSON, Miss.
In recent years, construction cranes have loomed over the bustling campus of Jackson State University. The historically Black school of more than 8,000 students is undergoing a building boom, evident by recently constructed buildings that have blended with historic structures. Located at the southern end of the city, the Jackson State campus stands out as one of the few vibrant areas in this economically struggling section of Mississippi’s majority-Black capital city.

“I feel like now we are as close to being a major university as we’ve ever been,”

[henfan]

Again, what works for one school may not work for another. Jackson State is not Delaware State.

I hardly think that Alan Sessoms has demonized the HBCU moniker with any of his comments. He just doesn't seem to think it benefits his school any longer. Apparently, one size doesn't fit all.

[jstate83]

:confused: Who are these people you refer to? Sounds like the people at DSU are saying this. :confused:

Sounds like 1 person to me......................EL PRESIDENT. :D

[jstate83]

Again, what works for one school may not work for another. Jackson State is not Delaware State.

I hardly think that Alan Sessoms has demonized the HBCU moniker with any of his comments. He just doesn't seem to think it benefits his school any longer. Apparently, one size doesn't fit all.

Evidently that's the truth...................We working our "product" to the max without spreading half truth's about how "out-dated" HBCU's are.
If he want's to move out the MEAC, just go and prosper.
No need for a pi$$ing match.xlolx

JSU didn't start these project's 5 years ago.
These project's were planned, brought to the table, revised and updated by every President JSU has had in the last 15 years.
Each one picked up the ball and moved it further down the field until we got to where we started 5 years ago to now with MASON.

Stuff don't fall out the trees.
You gotta put in a lot of work for a hell of a lot of years JUST TO GET STARTED.
We been planning this for a decade..........BUILDING, PROGRAMS, NEW DEGREES....(UNDER and POST GRAD), etc.
Moving up in sport's classification is not even an issue around here.
Maybe in 15 years we will see. xlolx

Deleware St can do the same if your plans are solid, thought out, and blend in with the overall well being of the city your are located in.

If you can add value and quality of life to the region you serve, nobody is going to give a hoot if you a HBCU or a PWC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

For better or worse, Bell's harsh comments do open up a debate about Delaware State and HBCU's in general. Is the system obsolete? Are HBCU's intrinsically at a disadvantage to other FCS schools? Should we compete for FCS championships? How closely do you want to tie yourself to your past as a school from the days of segregation? I'd be willing to bet that members of every HBCU - and not only in the MEAC - is going through this debate internally.

It seems to me that MEAC and SWAC schools can't decide what to emphasize about their histories, even among the best programs. If you go to Grambling State's main football homepage (http://www.gram.edu/sports/football/), there isn't a single reference to Grambling State's 12 Black National Championships or even coach Eddie Robinson. Compare to Delaware's (http://www.udel.edu/sportsinfo/football/): you have a hall of fame, the fight song... lots of references to their traditions. Is referring to your "Black College National Championships" segregationist? I hardly think so, but someone like Bell thinks it is - and I think there are probably other HBCU AD's that aren't named Chuck Bell that feel the same way.

I don't think you should have to give up your traditions that make your school stand out, like your marching band, your Hall of Fame coaches or your rivals or game traditions. If Chuck Bell is talking about that, I don't agree at all. But I do think that HBCU's need to do a better job cross-promoting their games outside their traditional clientele - a point in which I think Bell might agree with me. I don't think Bell's comments help in that endeavor one bit, however. :twocents:

[aswedc]

Just what it says..................A HISTORICALLY BLACK UNIVERSITY............It's a moniker.
That's not had to figure out.

So taking this line of thought, what would these school's be called considering their minority population:

Any................
Big 10, Big 12, SEC, ACC, Pac-10, WAC, Con-USA, etc., school.
"Schools for whites and a few MINORITIES to keep our federal grants and schollies"?
It ain't like minorities are swinging from the rooftops at these schools outside of SPORT'S. :nod:

Same with just about any school in 1-AA outside of the SWAC and MEAC.
Take away the sport's teams and how often would any of you see more than 10 minorities together in any given place on your campus.

And don't lie. xlolx
But those schools don't call themselves "Schools for whites and a few MINORITIES to keep our federal grants and schollies". While HBCU's proudly state they are HBCUs.

There's no problem with being a university which historically, or currently, has a majority Black student body.

But, I question the usefulness and fairness of continuing to base their identity around that distinction.

[HIU 93]

This is not true. TSU was not forced by the state to join the OVC nor are we forced to stay. This has become an urban myth that is just not true. With that being said, I do believe race perception (in addition to travel costs) are one of the reasons we have remained in the OVC. However, I've heard from our AD on several occasions that we are not legally tied to the OVC. Geographically, the OVC is the best fit. From a fan interest level, it's not especially in football.

I stand corrected.

[Mr. Tiger]

Every school markets itself to the best of its ability using its history, academic standing, and famous alumni. It is hard to effectively market yourself if you don't share your history, how your school was founded and by who and for what purpose. If Delaware State doesn't want to market that it was founded as an HBCU, MORE POWER TO THEM. Good luck finding a new marketing campaign. :thumbsup: As for demanding every HBCU follow suit, don't be silly. xidiotx

[HIU 93]

Yup, Hampton does do well, which is a great thing. OTOH, DSU does not compete well, which is why the school's leaders are seeking big changes. There's not one plan that fits every school and the current educational climate is much different in Delaware than it is in Virginia, both at the high school and higher ed levels. I have faith that DSU is perfectly capable of celebrating its HBU heritage while continuing to evolve. I'm not convinced that MEAC membership is critical to the school's success.

Actually, there are similarities between the conditions surrounding some PWUs prior to deseg and a few HBCUs today. Change driven by demographic/political shifts and financial need. Notice I didn't suggest the circumstances were identical in every or most cases.

I am going to post this and then I am done with it. DSU's Prez and AD have stated, in black and white, that they do not desire to be an HBCU anymore nor do they desire to be affiliated with HBCUs because it impedes their progress. If this is what they believe, then let them go. Bu-gye. Get to stepping. Don't let the doorknob hit you where the good Lord split you.

However, I refuse to let Alan Sessoms, Chuck Bell, anyone on AGS, or anyone else spread lies and falsehoods about HBCUs. Let's talk facts. Isn't that what y'all always want here? So here are some facts.

Endowments-
Howard $350 million
Hampton $225 million
Spelman $200 million
Morehouse $200 million


In the last ten years, Howard, FAMU, Morehouse, and Spelman have all produced Rhodes Scholars.

75% of all Black professionals received their degrees from HBCUs.

90% of Black students in college attend PWCs, but 60% of degrees granted to Black college students are granted by HBCUs.

FAMU was Time magazine's inaugural College of the Year in 1997.

In the last ten years, FAMU, Morehouse, and Howard have each enrolled the greatest number of National Merit Scholars when compared to ALL other American universities.

The Harvey Institute at Hampton has produced more college presidents (HBCU and PWC) than any other academic leadership program.

Jackson State has made more progress than any other University in the state of MS. It is the largest university in MS.

The highest ranking person in the US military, Gen. William "Kip" Ward is a graduate of Morgan State.

Gen. Russel Honore, the commanding general of the forces during the Katrina response, is a graduate of Southern.

Howard, Morgan, and Morehouse are national leaders in producing Fulbright Scholars.

The Human Genome Project is headquartered at Howard. Of the universities involved in the project, Howard was the first to map it.

Hampton produced the 2006 National Teacher of the Year, Kimberly Oliver.

Hampton produced the 2007 Landmark Communications Landmark Scholar, Aariel Charbonnet.

Hampton placed first in the 2006-07 FBI National Curriculum Development Challenge Competition.

The immediate past US Secretary of Education, Dr. Roderick Paige, is an alumnus of Jackson State.

Two of the last three US Surgeon Generals are alums of HBCUs.

Oprah Winfrey, the queen of television, is an alum of Tennessee State.

NC A&T produces more Black engineers than any other school, HBCU or PWC.

FAMU is strategically partnered with more than 100 Fortune 500 companies. They consistently produce business leaders and managers to work for these companies.

Xavier produces more Black doctors than any other school.

I could go on all night, but you should be able to get the idea.

So, if those, and the thousands of other positive accomplishments and attributes of HBCUs is detrimental to DSU's progress, then good riddance.

[Fresno St. Alum]

There is no room for Delaware St. in the A-10,CAA, or the SoCon if they add Samford, plus they are out of the SoCon footprint. So where do they think they are going?

[rokamortis]

There is no room for Delaware St. in the A-10,CAA, or the SoCon if they add Samford, plus they are out of the SoCon footprint. So where do they think they are going?

A couple of years ago it was rumored that they were in discussions with the Big South.

[henfan]

I am going to post this and then I am done with it. DSU's Prez and AD have stated, in black and white, that they do not desire to be an HBCU anymore nor do they desire to be affiliated with HBCUs because it impedes their progress... However, I refuse to let Alan Sessoms, Chuck Bell, anyone on AGS, or anyone else spread lies and falsehoods about HBCUs.

Oh, stop the nonsense. If you have an example of Sessoms spreading lies or falsehoods about other HBCUs, please post it. The only thing I've read or heard him say is that HBU identity isn't best serving DSU. Who are you to say Sessoms and DSU admin are wrong? You have no apparent idea what DSU is facing.

It's fantastic that several HBU's have endowments in the hundreds of millions of dollars. It's also fanstastic that many HBU's are able to successfully market their HBU status and thrive. Good for them. Unfortunately, the environment in our state and the history of alums' relationship with Delaware State isn't anywhere near comparable to what Hampton, Howard, Spelman, or Morehouse experience. Attend a DSU homecoming game and you'll get the picture.

DSU's endowment is $13.5M. The school has a pitiful legacy of contribution percentages from its alum base. Despite its best efforts over the decades, the school has had difficulty growing in any real way as a result. There remains a great population of Delawareans of all backgrounds and means underserved by the state's current higher ed set-up. This is the population that DSU hopes to serve better. It won't likely be able to do that by continuing to market itself as an HBU. They've tried that and it hasn't worked.


So, if those, and the thousands of other positive accomplishments and attributes of HBCUs is detrimental to DSU's progress, then good riddance.

You just don't get it. DSU is not minimizing or rejecting what works for other schools in other areas of the country. But what works for other schools isn't and hasn't been working for them. Don't worry so much about what DSU does. It isn't intended as a personal affront to you or Hampton U.

Peace.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

I am going to post this and then I am done with it. DSU's Prez and AD have stated, in black and white, that they do not desire to be an HBCU anymore nor do they desire to be affiliated with HBCUs because it impedes their progress. If this is what they believe, then let them go. Bu-gye. Get to stepping. Don't let the doorknob hit you where the good Lord split you.

However, I refuse to let Alan Sessoms, Chuck Bell, anyone on AGS, or anyone else spread lies and falsehoods about HBCUs. Let's talk facts. Isn't that what y'all always want here? So here are some facts.

Endowments-
Howard $350 million
Hampton $225 million
Spelman $200 million
Morehouse $200 million


In the last ten years, Howard, FAMU, Morehouse, and Spelman have all produced Rhodes Scholars.

75% of all Black professionals received their degrees from HBCUs.

90% of Black students in college attend PWCs, but 60% of degrees granted to Black college students are granted by HBCUs.

FAMU was Time magazine's inaugural College of the Year in 1997.

In the last ten years, FAMU, Morehouse, and Howard have each enrolled the greatest number of National Merit Scholars when compared to ALL other American universities.

The Harvey Institute at Hampton has produced more college presidents (HBCU and PWC) than any other academic leadership program.

Jackson State has made more progress than any other University in the state of MS. It is the largest university in MS.

The highest ranking person in the US military, Gen. William "Kip" Ward is a graduate of Morgan State.

Gen. Russel Honore, the commanding general of the forces during the Katrina response, is a graduate of Southern.

Howard, Morgan, and Morehouse are national leaders in producing Fulbright Scholars.

The Human Genome Project is headquartered at Howard. Of the universities involved in the project, Howard was the first to map it.

Hampton produced the 2006 National Teacher of the Year, Kimberly Oliver.

Hampton produced the 2007 Landmark Communications Landmark Scholar, Aariel Charbonnet.

Hampton placed first in the 2006-07 FBI National Curriculum Development Challenge Competition.

The immediate past US Secretary of Education, Dr. Roderick Paige, is an alumnus of Jackson State.

Two of the last three US Surgeon Generals are alums of HBCUs.

Oprah Winfrey, the queen of television, is an alum of Tennessee State.

NC A&T produces more Black engineers than any other school, HBCU or PWC.

FAMU is strategically partnered with more than 100 Fortune 500 companies. They consistently produce business leaders and managers to work for these companies.

Xavier produces more Black doctors than any other school.

I could go on all night, but you should be able to get the idea.

So, if those, and the thousands of other positive accomplishments and attributes of HBCUs is detrimental to DSU's progress, then good riddance.VERY POWERFUL POST.:thumbsup: I love hearing our story:D.

[YoUDeeMan]

Oh, stop the nonsense. If you have an example of Sessoms spreading lies or falsehoods about other HBCUs, please post it. The only thing I've read or heard him say is that HBU identity isn't best serving DSU. Who are you to say Sessoms and DSU admin are wrong? You have no apparent idea what DSU is facing.

It's fantastic that several HBU's have endowments in the hundreds of millions of dollars. It's also fanstastic that many HBU's are able to successfully market their HBU status and thrive. Good for them. Unfortunately, the environment in our state and the history of alums' relationship with Delaware State isn't anywhere near comparable to what Hampton, Howard, Spelman, or Morehouse experience. Attend a DSU homecoming game and you'll get the picture.

DSU's endowment is $13.5M. The school has a pitiful legacy of contribution percentages from its alum base. Despite its best efforts over the decades, the school has had difficulty growing in any real way as a result. There remains a great population of Delawareans of all backgrounds and means underserved by the state's current higher ed set-up. This is the population that DSU hopes to serve better. It won't likely be able to do that by continuing to market itself as an HBU. They've tried that and it hasn't worked.



You just don't get it. DSU is not minimizing or rejecting what works for other schools in other areas of the country. But what works for other schools isn't and hasn't been working for them. Don't worry so much about what DSU does. It isn't intended as a personal affront to you or Hampton U.

Peace.

:hurray: :hurray: xlolx :nod:

[jstate83]

But those schools don't call themselves "Schools for whites and a few MINORITIES to keep our federal grants and schollies". While HBCU's proudly state they are HBCUs.

There's no problem with being a university which historically, or currently, has a majority Black student body.

But, I question the usefulness and fairness of continuing to base their identity around that distinction.

What's so hard for you to understand HISTORICALLY BLACK and take it for what it is.
That seems to just cut you like a knife for some reason.:eyebrow:

In other words..................Same ole same ole about a non issue.
The only problem people have is the word BLACK in the moniker Historically Black College or University.

Let it go because I'm so sick of people wanting anything associated with black culture to be blended out of their historically identity just to make others happy.

There is alway's a "BUT".

Oh well..........................I'm out this convo.:nod:
Don't like HBCU's then don't attend.xlolx
Don't like all the Irish Catholic themes around Notre Dane..........Don't attend.xlolx

Neither is going to change...................I know JSU won't.:nod:
AND WE PROUDLY STATE THIS EVERYDAY. xlolx

[HIU 93]

Oh, stop the nonsense. The only thing I've read or heard him say is that HBU identity isn't best serving DSU.

DSU is not minimizing or rejecting what works for other schools in other areas of the country.

"...nonsense..." huh?

Here are some quotes from the article.

"...athletic director Chuck Bell and football coach Al Lavan believe historically black conferences are no longer necessary."

"There's not even a need for a [historically black]...college."

They didn't say anything about DSU in those statements.

People have been making these ridiculous statements for decades.

The need does exist. It exists at Brandeis, Yeshiva, Brigham Young, Georgetown, and Notre Dame. It also exists at HBCUs.

[MplsBison]

Taking DSU's change in mission as a personal attack against black people is borderline racist on your part HIU93.

Cut it out.

[MACHIAVELLI]

the FBS deal might be a little far-fetched, but I applaud DSU for wanting to advance itself as a university, get beyond the term "Historically" and broaden their horizons.

Who says its an advance?

[henfan]

"...nonsense..." huh?

I'm afraid so. Sessoms made no comments or judgements about the best interests of every HBCU.

Lavan, though no direct quote was provided from him by the NJ reporter on this subject, apparently did suggest that black conferences are no longer necessary. That's a completely different topic than the charge that DSU is somehow slagging other HBUs for closely identifying with their cultural history. It's also Lavan's opinion, which doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things.

Chuck Bell just doesn't get it.: smh :

[Fresno St. Alum]

A couple of years ago it was rumored that they were in discussions with the Big South.
They're a little north for the Big South aren't they. They would need to bring someone in with them to put the BSC at 12 schools, 8 with FB.

[Go...gate]

VERY POWERFUL POST.:thumbsup: I love hearing our story:D.

I agree. It's a hell of a resume, and not well communicated throughout the USA. At the same time, I'm embarrassed that I did not know this.

[kicker]

i, for one, would LOVE to see delst & scsu in the big south. they are both really good schools & would be welcome with open arms.

[Libertine]

They're a little north for the Big South aren't they. They would need to bring someone in with them to put the BSC at 12 schools, 8 with FB.

Haven't you been paying attention to the geography lessons, Fresno? DSU is in the South! :smiley_wi

It was reported a few years ago that Del St had initiated talks with the Big South but nobody has heard anything publicly about it since. I could only speculate as to what happened from there...so I will.

* First, at the time, I understand there were some behind-the-scenes concerns about travel distance. Nobody wanted to simultaneously have to send a team to Dover for men's basketball, a team to Birmingham for women's basketball and another team to Corpus Christi for...whatever sports Texas A&M-CC was associated for.
* Anyway, this was also during the time period in which KK apparently thought he could solve all our numbers problems by poaching ducks out of the SAC D2 pond as soon as they waddled up on the shores of D1. I'm not sure that DSU fit the profile of what he was looking for.
* Also, the facilities at DSU at the time were just bad. The Big South has had its share of crappy facilities but what I saw in Dover in 2000 was just about the worst setup I've ever seen. When the DSU-Big South contact was reported, nearly every Big South team was already engaged in a building project to upgrade their facilities and there was some concern that DSU would not be able to convince the Delaware legislature to help them do the same.
* Finally -- and the most likely reason why nothing happened -- the contact between DSU and the Big South was reported in a Delaware newspaper. I would imagine that the Hornet athletic department answered quite a few angry phone calls from alumni who were fired up by the idea of abandoning their traditional MEAC roots.

[henfan]

* First, at the time, I understand there were some behind-the-scenes concerns about travel distance. Nobody wanted to simultaneously have to send a team to Dover for men's basketball, a team to Birmingham for women's basketball and another team to Corpus Christi for...whatever sports Texas A&M-CC was associated for.

Correction. The discussions between the Big South and DSU centered around football affiliate membership only. DSU was also in contact with the NEC regarding Olympic sport membership.

It's impossible to speculate how or why these deals never came to fruition or whether or not they're still on the table. DSU hasn't mentioned them recently, nor has the Big South or NEC.

[henfan]

* First, at the time, I understand there were some behind-the-scenes concerns about travel distance. Nobody wanted to simultaneously have to send a team to Dover for men's basketball, a team to Birmingham for women's basketball and another team to Corpus Christi for...whatever sports Texas A&M-CC was associated for.

Correction. The discussions between the Big South and DSU centered around football affiliate membership only. At the same time, DSU was also in contact with the NEC regarding Olympic sport membership.

It's impossible to speculate how or why these deals never came to fruition or whether or not they're still on the table. DSU hasn't mentioned them recently, nor has the Big South or NEC.

[Libertine]

Correction. The discussions between the Big South and DSU centered around football affiliate membership only. DSU was also in contact with the NEC regarding Olympic sport membership.

It's impossible to speculate how or why these deals never came to fruition or whether or not they're still on the table. DSU hasn't mentioned them recently, nor has the Big South or NEC.

So, why should that stop us from trying? :smiley_wi

[Fresno St. Alum]

The Big South could be taking UNC-Pembroke and Wingate in a few years. So they don't have to worry about DSU or any FB affiliate members.

[rokamortis]

The Big South could be taking UNC-Pembroke and Wingate in a few years. So they don't have to worry about DSU or any FB affiliate members.


Those are DII schools and would require a 5 year waiting period before being DI. With that time frame they still probably need to go with the affilaites.

[Fresno St. Alum]

PC, is the 6th member, after their 5 year wait is done then you guys will get an auto-bid. The D-II's would be a bonus and security incase someone bolts. If you guys get an affiliate would the BSC get an auto-bid right away? If so then hell yes get one.

[YoUDeeMan]

PC, is the 6th member, after their 5 year wait is done then you guys will get an auto-bid. The D-II's would be a bonus and security incase someone bolts. If you guys get an affiliate would the BSC get an auto-bid right away? If so then hell yes get one.

Why would the Big South get an auto-bid with six members? Which conference would lose theirs? :eyebrow:

[HIU 93]

I agree. It's a hell of a resume, and not well communicated throughout the USA. At the same time, I'm embarrassed that I did not know this.

You shouldn't be embarrassed. Most universities academic accomplishments aren't front page news. Most universities, however, have news articles about their university on their websites.

The thing is, there are a lot of negative rumors and innuendo floating around. The sad thing is, when the rumors and innuendo are about HBCUs, people tend to take them as fact. I had people (Black and white) ask me why I would choose to "limit" myself at Hampton because I was "smart".

We (ALL PEOPLE) have been conditioned in America to believe that anything dealing with Blacks is second class. Most people are so thoroughly brainwashed in that way of thinking, they can't believe it, even if you show them evidence to that fact. Not only that, most people become offended if you attempt to open their eyes to that.

Watch how many people will come on here after this and attempt to dispute my statement here, and then will attempt to dispute the facts stated in my earlier post. They could use that same energy to actually research the schools for themselves.

Don't be embarrassed, don't be ashamed. Even though you didn't know those things before, you have the good sense not to fall for the brainwashing. I just wish there were more reasonable people (of all hues) like yourself in this world.:twocents:

[HIU 93]

To piggyback on my last post-

One of the rumors about HBCUs is that the only thing the kids do is party. If I say it isn't true, someone will come in here with first grade logic and say that "I know one person at an HBCU...". Here is statistical evidence that proves that rumor wrong.

Students at Black Colleges Are Drinking Less Alcohol and Smoking Fewer Cigarettes

According to the annual survey of college freshmen conducted by the the Cooperative Institutional Research Program at the Higher Education Research Institute at the University of California at Los Angeles, students at black colleges party less, drink fewer alcoholic beverages, and are less likely to smoke cigarettes than college students generally. The percentage of freshmen at black colleges who drink beer is at its lowest level in 40 years. Freshman students generally are more than three times as likely to drink beer as freshmen at black colleges.

Wine and liquor consumption at the black colleges also has dropped significantly in recent years. After a spike in the rate of smoking cigarettes during the 1990s, today only a very small percentage of first-year students at black colleges smoke, about one third the rate for freshman students of all races. Perhaps the huge escalation in cigarette costs and taxes is having a disproportionate effect on black freshmen who are less able to afford the cost of smoking.

That article is courtesy of The Journal of Blacks In Higher Education.
http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index.html

[rokamortis]

Why would the Big South get an auto-bid with six members? Which conference would lose theirs? :eyebrow:

No conference has claim to a lifetime bid. The committee determines who gets the bid each year. Last year the Big South was rated higher than 4 autobid conferences. No guarantee but it looks likely that the BSC would get a bid if they can keep improving.

[rokamortis]

PC, is the 6th member, after their 5 year wait is done then you guys will get an auto-bid. The D-II's would be a bonus and security incase someone bolts. If you guys get an affiliate would the BSC get an auto-bid right away? If so then hell yes get one.

The BSC wouldn't qualify right away, but waiting 2 years is better than waiting 5.

[andy7171]

Hey HUI93, is UDC considered a HBCU?
I remember in HS they has a crappy DIII football team. Man they had some UGLY uniforms. Orange and Red.

Anyway, just wondering about UDC.
And I agree with your last two posts.

[SU Jag]

:nonono2: :nonono2: Walks in, walks right back out!:nonono2: :nonono2:

[SU Jag]

You shouldn't be embarrassed. Most universities academic accomplishments aren't front page news. Most universities, however, have news articles about their university on their websites.

The thing is, there are a lot of negative rumors and innuendo floating around. The sad thing is, when the rumors and innuendo are about HBCUs, people tend to take them as fact. I had people (Black and white) ask me why I would choose to "limit" myself at Hampton because I was "smart".

We (ALL PEOPLE) have been conditioned in America to believe that anything dealing with Blacks is second class. Most people are so thoroughly brainwashed in that way of thinking, they can't believe it, even if you show them evidence to that fact. Not only that, most people become offended if you attempt to open their eyes to that.

Watch how many people will come on here after this and attempt to dispute my statement here, and then will attempt to dispute the facts stated in my earlier post. They could use that same energy to actually research the schools for themselves.

Don't be embarrassed, don't be ashamed. Even though you didn't know those things before, you have the good sense not to fall for the brainwashing. I just wish there were more reasonable people (of all hues) like yourself in this world.:twocents:


Big ups!:nod: Great post!:nod:

[Panther88]

No, the federal government designates us as HBCUs. However, it does not matter what the schools are called, there will still be schools that have a majority white student population, and there will still be schools that have a majority Black student population.

Personally, I don't give a flying fcuk what DSU does. I am, however, quite perturbed by this asinine assumption that Black people are the purveyors of racism and prejudice in this country.

I'm not going to mention the obvious historical reasons why that isn't true. I'm just going to talk about today.

Today, how many white people do you know that attend a historically or predominantly Black church?

How many white people do you know that choose to be buried in a historically or predominantly Black cemetery?

We didn't start this system. Our ancestors didn't start this system. This system wasn't perpetuated by people that look like me. However, people that look like me were able to create institutions because we weren't allowed into the ones that everybody else were. Those institutions became traditions. Now, people want us to end our traditions because it makes them feel uncomfortable to remember what their ancestors created.

It is not OUR prejudice that keeps white folks from wanting to pray with us, go to school with us, or even be buried beside us. Again, we didn't create this system. We have just been able to thrive within it.

This is the most powerful post in this entire thread. Major props HIU93. I see it wasn't commented on but the rhetoric by the DSU people in charge certainly was. lol

People have a problem facing the truth. : smh :

[SU Jag]

This is the most powerful post in this entire thread. Major props HIU93. I see it wasn't commented on but the rhetoric by the DSU people in charge certainly was. lol

People have a problem facing the truth. : smh :

You're right he is making some strong points! Very powerful:nod:

[Panther88]

It is not OUR prejudice that keeps white folks from wanting to pray with us, go to school with us, or even be buried beside us. Again, we didn't create this system. We have just been able to thrive within it.


Those are some of the most powerful words I've ever saw (read)! Just as powerful as Dr MLK,Jrs :



"If a man hasn't found something worth dieing for... he isn't fit to live"


Meaning, have your life STAND for something rather than nothing. Deep. Powerful. HIU93 is...:bow:

[blukeys]

Oh, stop the nonsense. If you have an example of Sessoms spreading lies or falsehoods about other HBCUs, please post it. The only thing I've read or heard him say is that HBU identity isn't best serving DSU. Who are you to say Sessoms and DSU admin are wrong? You have no apparent idea what DSU is facing.

It's fantastic that several HBU's have endowments in the hundreds of millions of dollars. It's also fanstastic that many HBU's are able to successfully market their HBU status and thrive. Good for them. Unfortunately, the environment in our state and the history of alums' relationship with Delaware State isn't anywhere near comparable to what Hampton, Howard, Spelman, or Morehouse experience. Attend a DSU homecoming game and you'll get the picture.

DSU's endowment is $13.5M. The school has a pitiful legacy of contribution percentages from its alum base. Despite its best efforts over the decades, the school has had difficulty growing in any real way as a result. There remains a great population of Delawareans of all backgrounds and means underserved by the state's current higher ed set-up. This is the population that DSU hopes to serve better. It won't likely be able to do that by continuing to market itself as an HBU. They've tried that and it hasn't worked.



You just don't get it. DSU is not minimizing or rejecting what works for other schools in other areas of the country. But what works for other schools isn't and hasn't been working for them. Don't worry so much about what DSU does. It isn't intended as a personal affront to you or Hampton U.

Peace.


Henfan is essentially correct. The position of the DSU administration and the BOT is a response to the realities that face DSU in Central and Southern Delaware and not a reflection on HBCU's nationwide.

DSU on a local basis is getting hammered by the competition. (this should have been evident in the early 90's but the prior administration had its head in the sand.) Located in Dover a town of app. 33,000, DSU has two 4 year college campuses within 3 miles of its campus. Wesley College and Wilmington College have Undergrad enrollments of app. 3,200 and 800 respectively. Wesley could pass DSU in undergrad enrollment this decade and Wilmington College is kicking butt in the profitable area of Grad enrollment. In addition less than a mile from DSU is the 2 year program at the Terry Campus of Del Tech where tuition is lower and good grades get one a seat at UD. Add in the Salisbury U option, especially attractive for students south of Dover, Umes, and Goldey Beacom, a business school building a satellite campus in Middletown 30 minutes from DSU and you are looking at tough competition in a limited student population.

I know of no other HBCU that faces this type of competition with this small of a population base. Add in some bad publiciity from criminal activity from DSU students and this makes Dr. Sessoms job doubly difficult.

DSU has historically depended on out of state student recruits who qualify for financial aid. Unfortunately, many of these recruits require remedial classes (they are offered) but way too often they leave before they graduate. This means more recruiting of students and of course NO ALUMNI DONATIONS.

Dr. Sessoms realizes students drive by his school to Wesley College that are better able to succeed at college than the students that are being recruited from out of state.

His approach to do all he can to promote the school is a response to the very real and tough business decisions he must deal with. I have yet to hear any administration person say that DSU's situation is comparable to say Grambling, JSU or any other HBCU. Instead they are simply dealing with the reality of building a better qualified student base and competing better for local students.


"...nonsense..." huh?

Here are some quotes from the article.

"...athletic director Chuck Bell and football coach Al Lavan believe historically black conferences are no longer necessary."

"There's not even a need for a [historically black]...college."

They didn't say anything about DSU in those statements.

People have been making these ridiculous statements for decades.

The need does exist. It exists at Brandeis, Yeshiva, Brigham Young, Georgetown, and Notre Dame. It also exists at HBCUs.

HIU, Chuck Bell has proven time and again that he is a blithering idiot who hasn't figured out how to engage his brain before opening his mouth. I question his ability to figure out Al Lavan's sentiments as Al is a straight up football guy who doesn't speculate outside the lines.

I can tell you Chuck Bell's comments don't reflect the attitudes of the DSU administration and BOT. Chuck Bell should never have been hired and needs to return to the California retirement he so justly earned after his disastrous excursions into FBS football in California. The guy has yet to learn to actually gather facts BEFORE forming an opinion and at his age I see little hope that he will learn. Just Consider yourself lucky that Hampton never hired him in any capacity!!!!!;) :nod: ;) :nod:

[YoUDeeMan]

To piggyback on my last post-

One of the rumors about HBCUs is that the only thing the kids do is party.

I live here in Delaware and I do not know a single person that would call DSU a party school. Not all all. On the other hand, almost everyone knows that UD has a reputation for partying. :twocents:

[HIU 93]

Hey HUI93, is UDC considered a HBCU?
I remember in HS they has a crappy DIII football team. Man they had some UGLY uniforms. Orange and Red.

Anyway, just wondering about UDC.
And I agree with your last two posts.

Yes. They used to be in the CIAA. They had some pretty decent bball teams in the past. They are the only public university in the district.

[Fresno St. Alum]

UDC Firebirds 1982 D-II basketball champions.

[*****]

... I see it wasn't commented on but the rhetoric by the DSU people in charge certainly was. People have a problem facing the truth.Maybe because it was off-topic? TOPIC is "Del St Talks Move out of MEAC, HBCU FB" Maybe that's why members were talking about "the DSU people in charge?" :twocents:

I concur with the assessments of Bell and truly wonder what Lavan would say if he could without facing wrath.

[Mr. Tiger]

Maybe because it was off-topic? TOPIC is "Del St Talks Move out of MEAC, HBCU FB" Maybe that's why members were talking about "the DSU people in charge?" :twocents:

I concur with the assessments of Bell and truly wonder what Lavan would say if he could without facing wrath.

Could you please share a little more of your thoughts on the subject? Because Bell is quoted as saying "historically black conferences are no longer necessary." And "There's not even a need for a [historically black]...college." These quotes beg for follow-up questions. Does Bell mean that HBCUs should ignore their past, foundation, missions, and history? Does he mean the SWAC and MEAC should disband and seek membership in whatever conferences will take their schools? Or maybe it was an unclear attempt at saying race shouldn't matter? Nevertheless, I believe the SWAC and MEAC are as necessary as the Southland, OVC, NEC, or any other conference. And I don't believe ANY school should ignore its foundation and history.

[*****]

Could you please share a little more of your thoughts on the subject? Because Bell is quoted as saying...Oops, I should have said I concur with the critical assessments of Bell posted here. :nod:

[Pitbull]

If DSU wants to leave, what's stopping them? They don't have to have permission from the MEAC to go. DSU's reasons for wanting to leave, however, irk me. Their reasoning, from their lips, is that HBCU's and an HBCU conference aren't any good because they are Black. I do not support that notion, and there is no factual evidence to support that notion. If DSU was FAMU and wanted leave simply because they wanted to compete at a higher level, wanted to make more money, or some similar reason, I would wish them luck. That's not their reason. When they state that being an HBCU hurts them and being in an HBCU conference is bad, that has nothing to do with sports. That logic assumes that the white people's grass is greener and their ice is colder. That is not true, but if that is the logic that DSU wants to use, I say good riddance. Do they need help? I'll file the papers for them. I figure, the quicker they leave, the better. Tennessee State was forced by the state to join a non-HBCU conference. Have they done any better athletically since joining the OVC? No. Has the school become a greater institution from being in the OVC? No. In fact, all that has happened is that they are in a non-HBCU conference. Sitting beside someone white doesn't make you better, richer, or smarter, but if DSU wants to think it does, then Happy Trails to them.


While at the MEAC Tourney I spoke to several DSU alums...both young and old and they all were pissed at what the AD and Coach is saying...They are really.... xmadx xmadx xmadx

[henfan]

I concur with the assessments of Bell and truly wonder what Lavan would say if he could without facing wrath.

From what I've seen, heard and read of Al Lavan, he's a guy who's reputation is above reproach. I don't think he would say or do anything he doesn't truly believe in. DSU needs him far more than he'll ever need the DSU job. Now, Chuck Bell...xoopsx Whew!

89Hen, really summed up DSU's situation well. They're in a difficult spot and their Trustees realize they're either going to have to go in a different direction or face dire financial times ahead.

Ideally, I think they'd like to become the first option for Delawareans who either aren't accepted into, can't afford or aren't interested in UD. Right now, many of those kids end up at Delaware Tech, which is one of the better community colleges in the country. Affordability has also always been a huge part of DSU's mission. They could be a terrific option for Delawareans interested in a more affordable 4-year degree. IMO, this is where DSU is headed and it won't require the school lose complete touch with its HBU identity. It just may be that, in the process, DSU doesn't market itself as an HBU first.