Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

[clenz]

Aw sweet...let's take all three that are in the HL. Let the Horizon be IN/MI, Summit can take Milwaukee, Green Bay, and UIC...Horizon League can have Fort Wayne. We'll add UMKC and be at 12 teams.
Travel partners of Milwaukee/Green Bay, UIC/WIU, UMKC/Oral Bob, and whatever the Dakotas+Omaha and Denver are doing.

Not that I think this is at all likely, but it's fun to dream, right ;)

That would be a solid conference and pretty stable. Can’t see it happening but that would be a real good way to take it


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[jacksfan29]

Lots of the same old same old hand wringing and people calling the imminent collapse of the Summit from the usual suspects. xlolx

The Summit isn't going anywhere soon and neither are the Dakota's. With the right adds it could be a solid mid-major league. Hopefully Douple does the right things and doesn't over react and listen to the sky is falling idiots on message boards.

There are big changes coming sooner or later to the NCAA. The G5 cannot continue to hemorrhage money while trying to be the P5's little brother. The MWC losing the Las Vegas bowl is going to open more eyes to the inevitable.

My thought exactly.

[ST_Lawson]

That would be a solid conference and pretty stable. Can’t see it happening but that would be a real good way to take it


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I think it makes too much sense to actually happen. Not enough WTF in the plan.

[IBleedYellow]

Aw sweet...let's take all three that are in the HL. Let the Horizon be IN/MI, Summit can take Milwaukee, Green Bay, and UIC...Horizon League can have Fort Wayne. We'll add UMKC and be at 12 teams.
Travel partners of Milwaukee/Green Bay, UIC/WIU, UMKC/Oral Bob, and whatever the Dakotas+Omaha and Denver are doing.

Not that I think this is at all likely, but it's fun to dream, right ;)

I'd be okay with this.

[Thumper 76]

My thought exactly.
Yeah, cause the Summit hasn’t been a weak, revolving door for years now.....

I'd be okay with this.
This I could actually get on board with.



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[clenz]

Yeah, cause the Summit hasn’t been a weak, revolving door for years now.....





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Nope. Just me doom and glooming the Summit. Completely making everything up



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[FargoBison]

If the Summit implodes, NDSU wont go anywhere without UND and same for SDSU-USD. They won’t let the xDSU’s and UxD’s be apart. Problem is SDSU and NDSU will probably try to go together as well like when D2 to D1. It’ll be a tough sell for any conference to take 4 teams at once.

If an FBS conference wanted NDSU and NDSU wanted to go FBS, nobody in the state of ND would stand in our way. It would be political suicide to mess with Bison football.

That said I don't see us going FBS anytime soon.

[Thumper 76]

If an FBS conference wanted NDSU and NDSU wanted to go FBS, nobody in the state of ND would stand in our way. It would be political suicide to mess with Bison football.

That said I don't see us going FBS anytime soon.

I even found the plans to expand the Fargodome https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180614/48d158be4ece917a0844c380f7c80c7b.jpg


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[F'N Hawks]

It would be political suicide to mess with Bison football.

LOL. Ok brohammer.

[TheKingpin28]

LOL. Ok brohammer.Considering it is the best football program in the Upper Midwest/Great Plains and brings in massive revenue for the athletic department and is a household name, people who would want to prevent continued success for the entire state would be ostracized very quickly. Also helps that the Governor is also an Alum and backs NDSU wholeheartedly.

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[F'N Hawks]

Considering it is the best football program in the Upper Midwest/Great Plains and brings in massive revenue for the athletic department and is a household name, people who would want to prevent continued success for the entire state would be ostracized very quickly. Also helps that the Governor is also an Alum and backs NDSU wholeheartedly.

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Never go full Bison.

[Schism55]

I even found the plans to expand the Fargodome https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180614/48d158be4ece917a0844c380f7c80c7b.jpg


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What in the actual **** is going on there? What stadium is this?

[IBleedYellow]

What in the actual **** is going on there? What stadium is this?


This is for the world cup in Russia this year.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Stadium_(Yekaterinburg)

[CassBison]

What in the actual **** is going on there? What stadium is this?
https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/10/3/16409096/russia-world-cup-stadium-stand-outside-stadium

It appears to be a stadium from Russia that was too small for the World Cup

[Schism55]

This is for the world cup in Russia this year.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Stadium_(Yekaterinburg)


https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/10/3/16409096/russia-world-cup-stadium-stand-outside-stadium

It appears to be a stadium from Russia that was too small for the World Cup

Thank you for the knowledge fellas.
That is straight up bizarre!

[Thumper 76]

Thank you for the knowledge fellas.
That is straight up bizarre!

They’re lying to you. It’s a minerature mock up of the Fargodomes future.


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[CassBison]

They’re lying to you. It’s a minerature mock up of the Fargodomes future.


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You caught me...xdontknowxxbowx

[clenz]

They’re lying to you. It’s a minerature mock up of the Fargodomes future.


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Easier for you and I to get the fuel Insi....


I mean.


I like the design.


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[POD Knows]

They’re lying to you. It’s a minerature mock up of the Fargodomes future.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThose new seats are how IBY got his season tickets finally. Hope he likes in up there in row ZZZZZZZZZ

[nodak651]

Those bleachers look sketchy as hell. I wonder how much they sway with a decent breeze? 0/10. Would not sit there. 50% chance this collapses during the world cup.

[Schism55]

Those bleachers look sketchy as hell. I wonder how much they sway with a decent breeze? 0/10. Would not sit there. 50% chance this collapses during the world cup.
Totally, disaster waiting to happen. Especially once they are packed to the gills and all those hooligans jumping around.
Anyone know if that huge hole was already in the stadium??

[FargoBison]

LOL. Ok brohammer.

What is funny? Politicians aren't going to meddle with NDSU football or UND hockey for that matter, especially over something as trivial as conference realignment.

[Professor Chaos]

Those bleachers look sketchy as hell. I wonder how much they sway with a decent breeze? 0/10. Would not sit there. 50% chance this collapses during the world cup.
Makes me even more glad the US decided to boycott this World Cup. :D

[POD Knows]

Makes me even more glad the US decided to boycott this World Cup. :DLOL, yea, the USA will probably "boycott" the event when it is in the USA as well.

[cx500d]

LOL, yea, the USA will probably "boycott" the event when it is in the USA as well.

by having a ****ty team

[JacksFan40]

by having a ****ty team
It’s what happens when your team is composed of spoiled rich kids.

[Schism55]

Actually US should be good to very good then, we have one of the best young players in the world. If you don't know who Christian Pulisic is, worth 5 minutes of your time on YouTube xthumbsupx

[clenz]

Actually US should be good to very good then, we have one of the best young players in the world. If you don't know who Christian Pulisic is, worth 5 minutes of your time on YouTube xthumbsupx

Yup. Thankfully we appear to have moved on from the previous generation of players who were old and holding the NT back at the end I think.

Friendly or not the USMT drew - and lead for much of it - WC favorite France, in France. Did so while starting 10 players who had made less than 10 national team appearances. Did so against a French team that played its full arsenal of players - Lloris, Kante, Mendi, Pogba, Griezmann, Mbappe, Giroud, Fekir, Dembele, Lemar - in France.

The USMNT had an average age of like 20 out there. In 8 years. Assuming they find a manager that doesn’t run a **** system (asking apt of US soccer I realize) there’s going to be a ton of talent.


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[JacksFan40]

https://www.kfyrtv.com/content/sports/Augustana-University-looking-into-Division-I-athletics-move-497533781.html
Looks like Augie is serious about this.
I know this isn’t a move for their football team but it raises the question about what happens to it, drop it, go Pioneer or in the most unlikely scenario, join the MVFC?
Also I don’t know if they’d get a Summit invite, I doubt all 4 Dakotas will sign off on this and let them in, so then where do they go? The WAC? Travel would be a huge pain.
Also the Wrestling program would be at a crossroads, they won’t follow SDSU or NDSU into the Big 12, it’s just not happening, and the WAC doesn’t sponsor wrestling.
Lots of holes to them moving up, I can see them being successful though in Basketball and especially Baseball after that D2 title this year.

[Laker]

I know this isn’t a move for their football team but it raises the question about what happens to it, drop it, go Pioneer or in the most unlikely scenario, join the MVFC?
Also I don’t know if they’d get a Summit invite, I doubt all 4 Dakotas will sign off on this and let them in, so then where do they go? The WAC? Travel would be a huge pain.
Also the Wrestling program would be at a crossroads, they won’t follow SDSU or NDSU into the Big 12, it’s just not happening, and the WAC doesn’t sponsor wrestling.
Lots of holes to them moving up, I can see them being successful though in Basketball and especially Baseball after that D2 title this year.

I would say Pioneer. They don't have the interest to try to go MVFC. And if the Summit doesn't invite them I don't see them going. They might to get the baseball team to help their numbers.

Great question about wrestling. This whole situation has more questions than answers.

As far as the NSIC goes, who do they get to replace Augie if they leave?

[Theee Catrabbit]

I would say Pioneer. They don't have the interest to try to go MVFC. And if the Summit doesn't invite them I don't see them going. They might to get the baseball team to help their numbers.

Great question about wrestling. This whole situation has more questions than answers.


I see them going the nuclear option: See UNO for details....

[clenz]

I see them going the nuclear option: See UNO for details....

^


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[JacksFan40]

I see them going the nuclear option: See UNO for details....
With all the money they put into that brand new stadium a few years ago, I feel that’d anger a lot of fans and donors. I see them going Pioneer.

[JSUBison]

https://www.kfyrtv.com/content/sports/Augustana-University-looking-into-Division-I-athletics-move-497533781.html
Looks like Augie is serious about this.
I know this isn’t a move for their football team but it raises the question about what happens to it, drop it, go Pioneer or in the most unlikely scenario, join the MVFC?
Also I don’t know if they’d get a Summit invite, I doubt all 4 Dakotas will sign off on this and let them in, so then where do they go? The WAC? Travel would be a huge pain.
Also the Wrestling program would be at a crossroads, they won’t follow SDSU or NDSU into the Big 12, it’s just not happening, and the WAC doesn’t sponsor wrestling.
Lots of holes to them moving up, I can see them being successful though in Basketball and especially Baseball after that D2 title this year.

I would be shocked if they didn't have a handshake agreement already in place with the Summit. From a fan perspective, I understand where people are coming from that don't want them. But from a league and president perspective, I think they are in. Provided Augustana has their stuff together, and I know that's what many people are worried about. SDSU and USD will just hold their nose and vote yes for the good of the league, much like NDSU did in regards to UND.

[clenz]

With all the money they put into that brand new stadium a few years ago, I feel that’d anger a lot of fans and donors. I see them going Pioneer.

UNO had just spent millions renovating their stadium - which they’ve spent millions re-renovating again - and they still dropped the sport.

UNOs wrestling had literally just won another national title and got home to find their gym and locker room chained shut with a note telling them the sport was cut just hours later.


Granted the situations are different for a number of significant reasons, but it’s worth noting.


I think football will be saved with a PFL move.

The PFL is at 10 right now and will be 11 in 2021 when Presbyterian completes their move from
The Big South. Augie would make 12. Set up a more travel friendly division set up.


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[Laker]

From what I heard in Bemidji today, the question is simply how soon will Augie announce that they are leaving.

[DFW HOYA]

The PFL is at 10 right now and will be 11 in 2021 when Presbyterian completes their move from
The Big South. Augie would make 12. Set up a more travel friendly division set up.


West: Augustana, Butler, Dayton, Drake, San Diego, Valparaiso
East: Davidson, Jacksonville, Marist, Morehead State, Presbyterian, Stetson

[clenz]

West: Augustana, Butler, Dayton, Drake, San Diego, Valparaiso
East: Davidson, Jacksonville, Marist, Morehead State, Presbyterian, Stetson

Yep.

That sets up 5 divisional games and 3 cross overs

Travel becomes much more manageable for a league that tries to spend next to nothing on the sport.


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[97Torero]

San Diego is the outlier in the west. Is Augustana a bus trip tomthe others?

[TheKingpin28]

San Diego is the outlier in the west. Is Augustana a bus trip tomthe others?

Just Drake.

Valpo is about 9.5 hours (630-650 miles) and Butler is about 100-120 miles more.

[JayJ79]

San Diego is the outlier in the west. Is Augustana a bus trip tomthe others?
Augustana to:
- Drake: 281 miles
- Valparaiso: 632 miles
- Butler: 737 miles
- Dayton: 856 miles

So Drake is a bus ride. The others would be 10+ hours

[Laker]

Augie could schedule MVFBC for non-conference games. Those would be close and paydays.

[clenz]

Augie could schedule MVFBC for non-conference games. Those would be close and paydays.

I’d hope UNI schedules them 3 out of 5 years.


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[RabidRabbit]

Augie could schedule MVFBC for non-conference games. Those would be close and paydays.

I could see the 4 Dakotas be willing to do 2 for 1 home/away/home with Augie. Would move Augie home attendance to near the top of the Pioneers.

[TheKingpin28]

I could see the 4 Dakotas be willing to do 2 for 1 home/away/home with Augie. Would move Augie home attendance to near the top of the Pioneers.

I doubt NDSU would agree to that. It would have to be school that is FBS or solid FCS team.

This decade, the following OOC games have occurred:

2010: @Kansas
2011: @Minnesota
2012: @Colorado St
2013: @Kansas St
2014: @Weber St
2015: @Montana
2016: @Iowa
2017: @EWU
2018: None

No reason to schedule Augie for an Away game.

[Shockerman]

Augie could schedule MVFBC for non-conference games. Those would be close and paydays.

If Augie moves where does that leave Minnesota State? From the outside looking in, one would think that there would be chatter of a D1 move.

[TheKingpin28]

If Augie moves where does that leave Minnesota State? From the outside looking in, one would think that there would be chatter of a D1 move.

Row the Boat U would NEVER allow Mankato to jump to D1, even if it was FCS. The board of regents would ensure this got shot down faster than New Hampshire's playoff hopes.

[RabidRabbit]

I could see the 4 Dakotas be willing to do 2 for 1 home/away/home with Augie. Would move Augie home attendance to near the top of the Pioneers.


OK, no NDSU. But USD, SDSU get essentially another "home game" tailgating opportunity. Essentially, most of the Jacks/Yote base coming out of Sioux Falls travels even less for an "away" game.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

OK, no NDSU. But USD, SDSU get essentially another "home game" tailgating opportunity. Essentially, most of the Jacks/Yote base coming out of Sioux Falls travels even less for an "away" game.


This here.

Great for the SD schools to schedule Augie. Pretty much a home game and sleep in your own bed after the game. NDSU? No way does NDSU go down there to play them. Home game? Sure.

[AmsterBison]

OK, no NDSU. But USD, SDSU get essentially another "home game" tailgating opportunity. Essentially, most of the Jacks/Yote base coming out of Sioux Falls travels even less for an "away" game.

Wouldn't Augustana have some sponsor buy up all the tickets to keep USD and SDSU fans away?

:)

I wouldn't mind a 2home/1away with Augie... as long as they don't pull ticket shenanigans. Heck, the 2012 game with USD in Sioux Falls was a Bison home game (except with bad tailgating lots.)

[344Johnson]

I doubt NDSU would agree to that. It would have to be school that is FBS or solid FCS team.

This decade, the following OOC games have occurred:

2010: @Kansas
2011: @Minnesota
2012: @Colorado St
2013: @Kansas St
2014: @Weber St
2015: @Montana
2016: @Iowa
2017: @EWU
2018: None

No reason to schedule Augie for an Away game.

I believe USD was scheduled as an out of conference game in 2012 but they ended up joining the conference.

[Laker]

If Augie moves where does that leave Minnesota State? From the outside looking in, one would think that there would be chatter of a D1 move.

This is constantly talked about. The black hole of women's hockey expenses- and men's for that matter- means that football would either be dropped or go the Pioneer route. They would be a good addition for the Summit- good baseball, sottball, soccer, track. But there are too many big talkers around Kato who bitch about D2 so they don't go to games, but are too cheap to go to the increased ticket prices of D1. Kelby wants MSU to go with AU- he and Sanford gave 6 million to Mav basketball.

I loved the old NCC. That is why I follow with interest on here. I knew people from UND-NDSU-USD-USD and UNO. I just don'e think that the fan interest is there for the move. And the Kingpin is right- the U of M wouldn't allow it. They always play St Cloud, Winona and the other MN D2 schools against each other.

[TheKingpin28]

I believe USD was scheduled as an out of conference game in 2012 but they ended up joining the conference.

Considering the 2010 game was an OOC game, it is entirely possible that it was an OOC game. I would also say that USeD and Augie are on a different football level.

[JacksFan40]

I’m neutral to Augie moving up, they’d be a nice addition to the Summit contrary to some fans beliefs. They have solid men’s and women’s basketball teams, and just won the D2 Title in Baseball.
I could see them being a solid Pioneer team, I doubt they’ll achieve San Diego’s success, but I could see them being similar to Drake or Dayton, a solid Pioneer team who consistently finishes top of the league.
What'll happen with Wrestling is the only question I have, I’d imagine they’ll scrap it but idk.

[Laker]

I’m neutral to Augie moving up, they’d be a nice addition to the Summit contrary to some fans beliefs. They have solid men’s and women’s basketball teams, and just won the D2 Title in Baseball.
I could see them being a solid Pioneer team, I doubt they’ll achieve San Diego’s success, but I could see them being similar to Drake or Dayton, a solid Pioneer team who consistently finishes top of the league.
What'll happen with Wrestling is the only question I have, I’d imagine they’ll scrap it but idk.

I'm against it but from what I am told they are going. Now I hope MSU doesn't follow them.

[JacksFan40]

I'm against it but from what I am told they are going. Now I hope MSU doesn't follow them.
Well as stated previously, the Gophers won’t allow it, unless MSU can really convince the Board of Regents that’d it’d be great for the state.
If we were concerned about moving a team up for football reasons it’d be MSU or USF, and USF is in no position to go D1.

[Shockerman]

Would MSU have the nuts to drop women's hockey if football got moved to non-scholly? How would fans react to non scholarship football? With the addition of Minnesota State and Augie, the Summit tournament in SF would easily rival Arch madness as one of the premier mid major tournaments.

[Laker]

Would MSU have the nuts to drop women's hockey if football got moved to non-scholly? How would fans react to non scholarship football? With the addition of Minnesota State and Augie, the Summit tournament in SF would easily rival Arch madness as one of the premier mid major tournaments.

MSU is pretty PC so I don't see them dropping women's hockey, even though it is probably the least successful sport at the school for both men's and women's sports. I think that the lack of any rivals- besides Augie- would cause football attendance to drop. If both teams joined the Summit they could change the name to NCC part 2.

[Thumper 76]

I’m neutral to Augie moving up, they’d be a nice addition to the Summit contrary to some fans beliefs. They have solid men’s and women’s basketball teams, and just won the D2 Title in Baseball.
I could see them being a solid Pioneer team, I doubt they’ll achieve San Diego’s success, but I could see them being similar to Drake or Dayton, a solid Pioneer team who consistently finishes top of the league.
What'll happen with Wrestling is the only question I have, I’d imagine they’ll scrap it but idk.

Can’t wait for Centenary 2.0. This version comes with the upgraded “leach corporate sponsors from the two state schools” option!

This **** is dumb as hell outside of the garbage Summit getting another warm body.


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[Yote 53]

I could see the 4 Dakotas be willing to do 2 for 1 home/away/home with Augie. Would move Augie home attendance to near the top of the Pioneers.

I don't see that at all. No way I would accept playing AT Augustana as a USD fan. They can come down to the Dome once every decade where we will kick their teeth in but other than that they are on their own.

[F'N Hawks]

I don't see that at all. No way I would accept playing AT Augustana as a USD fan. They can come down to the Dome once every decade where we will kick their teeth in but other than that they are on their own.

You guys all sold your soul to Sanford. You best be ready to play Augie in everything during their transition.

[ST_Lawson]

You guys all sold your soul to Sanford. You best be ready to play Augie in everything during their transition.

Are they still buying? We could use a heaping pile of cash.


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[JacksFan40]

I don't see that at all. No way I would accept playing AT Augustana as a USD fan. They can come down to the Dome once every decade where we will kick their teeth in but other than that they are on their own.
SDSU and USD will do whatever Sanford wants, don’t be suprised to see some trips to Sioux Falls. Even if they’re just Pioneer.

[clenz]

SDSU and USD will do whatever Sanford wants, don’t be suprised to see some trips to Sioux Falls. Even if they’re just Pioneer.

I’d gladly bus UNI to a Augie every 3 or 4 years if it meant 2 or 3 relatively cheap home games.


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[UNHWildcat18]

So what is the chance they actually move up and find a home?

God I would hate if a school in NH tried to move to D1. New England is small in terms of college athletics, UNH and Dartmouth are all NH needs at the D1 level.

[Laker]

So what is the chance they actually move up and find a home?

God I would hate if a school in NH tried to move to D1. New England is small in terms of college athletics, UNH and Dartmouth are all NH needs at the D1 level.

From what I heard from Mankato sources a week ago, no less than 50/50. From what I heard from Bemidji souces Saturday, they are gone. Neither source knew WHEN they would go- hopefully not this December after football season is over. They would like at least a year to deal with a 15 team league, or add a team to replace them.

[Yote 53]

SDSU and USD will do whatever Sanford wants, don’t be suprised to see some trips to Sioux Falls. Even if they’re just Pioneer.

Unfortunately you are right, and I hate it. I will just vote with my pocketbook and won't attend.

I refused to attend that farce in Sioux Falls a couple of years ago when we played NDSU there and I told the AD as much. It did nothing to increase attendance from USD people in Sioux Falls. It ended up being the same people from SE SD that now had to trek up to Sioux Falls for a USD home game. Complete joke, and it allowed Bison fans the opportunity to take over Howard Wood, which they did. It was embarrassing.

[espete]

Well as stated previously, the Gophers won’t allow it, unless MSU can really convince the Board of Regents that’d it’d be great for the state.
If we were concerned about moving a team up for football reasons it’d be MSU or USF, and USF is in no position to go D1.

In Minnesota the University of Minnesota and Minnesota State are two different systems run by different boards.

The U of M Board of Regents (https://regents.umn.edu/)

Minnesota State Board of Trustees (http://www.minnstate.edu/board/index.html)

So Duluth would have to worry what the Gophers say, but with Mankato, the U of M can "officially" do nothing about it. Now could they use their alumni base and convince the legislature to say no. The biggest hurdle for Mankato would be the other schools in the MN State (MnSCU the old name) system not wanting them to leave the NSIC, potentially receive more funding (a bigger slice of the pie), and or actually become the flagship university of the MN State system.

Football would be they biggest question. I just don't see Mankato in the MVFC. I also don't see them going the Pioneer route either though, maybe with dreams of Summit football they would. I would be ok with them dropping football, with the Vikings camp gone they could add men's soccer, transform Blakeslee into a decent soccer stadium, have the only DI men's program in the state. They could do that if they went non-scholarship too. Scholarship football definitely nixes the soccer route.

Adding my tinfoil hat, you could say they will do this just to try in get in with Denver, Omaha, and UND and try to weasel their way into the NCHC... would that qualify to be a sport sponsored by the Summit League then? that would take care of the baseball issue.

[MTfan4life]

From what I heard from Mankato sources a week ago, no less than 50/50. From what I heard from Bemidji souces Saturday, they are gone. Neither source knew WHEN they would go- hopefully not this December after football season is over. They would like at least a year to deal with a 15 team league, or add a team to replace them.

Who do you think would be number 16 in the NSIC if Augie does leave? A potential lower level ND school? Or maybe convince Crookston to move down! xsmiley_wix

[SDFS]

I wouldn't mind UNC and Augie.. Augie bringing in Football - you have 7 SL teams and 6MV/1Horizon League team.

SL
Augie
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND
UNC
WIU

BB
UND/NSDU
SDSU/Augie
USD/Omaha
Denver/UNC
WIU/ORU

MVFC
MSU
UNI
ISUb
ISUr
Murray St
SIU
YSU

[Evolution Prime]

I’m neutral to Augie moving up, they’d be a nice addition to the Summit contrary to some fans beliefs. They have solid men’s and women’s basketball teams, and just won the D2 Title in Baseball.

I'd really only want them because of baseball. Other than that, they can stay D2. Its just too crowded in the Dakotas for a 5th DI university. Plus I already know every other Summit League school is already pissed off that the conference has gravitated to Sioux Falls. I would imagine they would revolt if Sioux Falls had a Summit League member. Or maybe its just the fans and the schools have already decided.

As for football, no way they give up on their fairly new stadium/ They would go Pioneer for sure and probably hope for Summit League Football or an MVFC invite down the road. SDSU and USD would probably sign a 2 for 1 with them. I could see them playing at Howard Wood Field for the bigger games like SDSU and USD. This would then give Sioux Falls to really upgrade HWF.

[Laker]

Who do you think would be number 16 in the NSIC if Augie does leave? A potential lower level ND school? Or maybe convince Crookston to move down! xsmiley_wix

Crookston moving down would be perfect but they can't force them to. Talking to D3 UMAC people they don't want them. Maybe the NAIA North Star.

North Dakota- 0 candidates.
South Dakota- Black Hills and SD Mines are too far west.
Wisconsin- 0 candidates.
Minnesota- 0 candidates. MIAC schools won't move up.
Nebraska- Kearney is too far west.
Iowa- I visited Morningside Friday night when the Mavs practiced there. Talked to one of the coaches. They are not interested in joining and they were asked if there was an opening. They love NAIA- they are unbeaten- won big again today.

The team I would like them to talk to is NAIA Grandview. They started football a few years ago- won the NAIA title- located in Des Moines so they would have some media coverage. I don't know if they would have any interest but they could be the travel partner with Upper Iowa.

[Laker]

Augustana update:

https://www.yankton.net/community/article_67492890-ccfd-11e8-b4e5-77d7b92bc0f0.html

[BisonFan02]

Crookston moving down would be perfect but they can't force them to. Talking to D3 UMAC people they don't want them. Maybe the NAIA North Star.

North Dakota- 0 candidates.
South Dakota- Black Hills and SD Mines are too far west.
Wisconsin- 0 candidates.
Minnesota- 0 candidates. MIAC schools won't move up.
Nebraska- Kearney is too far west.
Iowa- I visited Morningside Friday night when the Mavs practiced there. Talked to one of the coaches. They are not interested in joining and they were asked if there was an opening. They love NAIA- they are unbeaten- won big again today.

The team I would like them to talk to is NAIA Grandview. They started football a few years ago- won the NAIA title- located in Des Moines so they would have some media coverage. I don't know if they would have any interest but they could be the travel partner with Upper Iowa.

Slightly OT.....but what do you think Jamestown should honestly do? Is the GPAC the answer? I've heard really mixed reviews, but I KNOW the North Star is a dying ship.

[Laker]

Slightly OT.....but what do you think Jamestown should honestly do? Is the GPAC the answer? I've heard really mixed reviews, but I KNOW the North Star is a dying ship.

Great question. I've asked why they would take on the travel of the GPAC. I'd trade them for Crookston. I don't think it would be very popular in the Winona and Upper Iowa camp to add another long trip to ND, even though it is a lot closer than Mary and Minot. The move up hasn't gone great for either one so far. I think eventually the NSIC will split. 16 teams is too big. Imagine a Minnesota conference and a Dakota's conference. Jamestown, Mary, Minot, Northern, USF, throw in Wayne. That is six- add two or three more......... who knows in this changing world?

[BisonFan02]

Great question. I've asked why they would take on the travel of the GPAC. I'd trade them for Crookston. I don't think it would be very popular in the Winona and Upper Iowa camp to add another long trip to ND, even though it is a lot closer than Mary and Minot. The move up hasn't gone great for either one so far. I think eventually the NSIC will split. 16 teams is too big. Imagine a Minnesota conference and a Dakota's conference. Jamestown, Mary, Minot, Northern, USF, throw in Wayne. That is six- add two or three more......... who knows in this changing world?

I have a hard time seeing Jamestown go D2......

[clenz]

I know there is an NAIA in Iowa that just spent teams of millions upgrading athletic facilities, built a football stadium without yet having a team and has a strategic plan in place to double or triple enrollment over the next decade that wants a D2 move.

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[Laker]

I know there is an NAIA in Iowa that just spent teams of millions upgrading athletic facilities, built a football stadium without yet having a team and has a strategic plan in place to double or triple enrollment over the next decade that wants a D2 move.


I wanted Morningside back but those people told me that they like where they are at.

The Iowa NAIA candidate that I was thinking of was Grandview............

[Thumper 76]

Not a great omen for being financially capable when you can’t raise $6 mil for Augies track facility. Tell me how they’re gunna pull off the full move if they can’t do a project like this right?

http://www.augiemirror.com/change-in-track-blueprints-results-in-miscommunication-and-upset-athletes/


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[TheKingpin28]

Not a great omen for being financially capable when you can’t raise $6 mil for Augies track facility. Tell me how they’re gunna pull off the full move if they can’t do a project like this right?

http://www.augiemirror.com/change-in-track-blueprints-results-in-miscommunication-and-upset-athletes/ (http://www.augiemirror.com/change-in-track-blueprints-results-in-miscommunication-and-upset-athletes/)


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https://i.giphy.com/media/10Gp0wzMg4LB0A/giphy.webp (https://giphy.com/gifs/the-league-rodney-ruxin-collusion-10Gp0wzMg4LB0A?utm_source=media-link&utm_medium=landing&utm_campaign=Media%20Links&utm_term=https://www.google.com/)

[clenz]

Morningside isn't going anywhere. None of the NW Iowa schools will move.

Everything we've talked about with D1 being overloaded ready in the aemrea is also said about one of them moving.


Grandview? Maybe. They're in a tough spot in Des Moines. No one knows they exist. No one cares they exist. They are behind Iowa Iowa State UNI Drake Nebraska Creighton Kansas Kansas State Missouri and Minnesota in their best case scenario. Plus Des Moines is actually a pretty pro sports heavy town having a AAA Cubs affiliate, the Wolves G League affiliate and the Wild AHL affiliate

The school I'm thinking of is Mount Mercy University in Cedar Rapids. They moved from a college to a university about a decade ago. Got tens of millions from the John Q Hammond and Plaster trusts (see Missouri States facilities) to build all new facilites. Not renovated. Buy all new land and build brand new.

They want to double undergrad enrollment in 5-7 years (get closer to 3k undergrad) but where their money and plans lie is the graduate schools. They have 8 or 9 masters programs now. All in areas that Cedar Rapids is known for - nursing, education, mental health and business/hr/strategic leadership. They have 2 doctorate programs now (marriage and family therapy - which my wife teaches in) and nursing of some kind. They are also working on a doc program for educational leadership. The classes are all night classes and they've partnered with every CR and IC major employer to get hooked into being the place to be for them to send employees. I am 2 classes from finish my Master of Strategic Leadership and Human Resource Management (which has a ton of cross over with the MBA program) and everyone in the programs are from TransAmerica, Aegon, Rockwell Collins, United Fire Group, GreatAmerica Financial, CRST, etc. They've also partnered with Iowa and Iowa State to have matching curriculum and share instructors (Iowa). The MMU MBA program is nearly identical to UNI (the best business school in Iowa) and Iowa for curriculum. That's a big deal for a tiny private college. I k ow they are working with UNI for education programs (UNI is the best education program in the state)

IIRC they plan on having five hundred to a thousand or so grad students every year. Less than a decade into it and just finally hitting the idea of what they are doing and can start growing the grad college (which received like a 40m donation from CRST to buy an existing building off campus and completely renovate into a grad campus - and it worked and it's pretty damn nice.

Travel could be a major hold up but Cedar Rapids is larger than Sioux Falls but it's a school that watched UIU move from a college to a university and then from NAIA to D2 and is following the same path but trying to do it better. A big advantage is being in the second largest metro in the state and not freaking Fayette.

Having said that - the MMU administration is a mess. They didn't handle the transition from college to university well. Their financial aid and business offices are a disaster - I've spent 3 years fighting them every single semester. They are struggling to get the sisters of Mercy (some catholic thing I guess) to approve the addition of football.

They've done surveys and found alumni, facility students and community support it, but the sisters won't. The sisters, a year or so ago, gave a rebuttal to the year long football study, and said that the added insurance costs and inability to house that many more students was cost prohibitive and a campus safety hazard.


But if you really read their statement what they said was "football would bring students we do t want on our campus to our campus and we think they aren't smart enough or of the right SES and we think they are hooligans."

I showed the statement to a bunch if people outside of MMU and they all agrees it was basically the sisters going "football players are too dumb, we don't want " that kind if diversity" , and we think all football players are too dumb and would hurt academically". Basically you can draw a real easy conclusion for what they were saying.

The mess that the administration of MMU has been has slowed their growth. They have a new president as of July. New provost. New directors in many areas.

They have a chance to be the "premier" non D1 in eastern Iowa but they keep messing up


The hard part for Mount Mercy is they don't have an academic peer in Iowa to hook to and say "this is where we belong". Iowa has 10 D3's. All of them are colleges and 9 of them are in the same conference (one was but left to join a conference that was a better academic and competitive fit...think of it like EIU leaving the Gateway in the mid 90s). All the Iowa D3s are between 1,300 and 1,800 kids. All in towns of 10k or so (the one exception is Coe College...which is in Cedar Rapids and a mile from Mount Mercy) but the running joke in Iowa is a song that is sung to If You're Happy and You Know It going "If you can't get into college go to Coe. If you can't get in to college go to Coe. If you grades are to low and everyone says no go to Coe". So by going the route of focusing on building a graduate school they have further alienated themselves from the Iowa D3s - also MMU wants to offer athletic scholarships and use athletics as a selling point for kids.

Mount Mercy was an all girls nursing school for many decades. It doesn't fit well with the others.

It's also isolated from the rest of the D2 world. Iowa's only other D2 is Upper Iowa - middle of nowhere NE Iowa. Cedar Rapids isn't close to the NSIC, but neither is UIU.

There isn't a D2 conference in Illinois.

The two options are the

Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Association - which is a disaster for travel: Nebraska Kearney, NW Missouri State, Missouri Wester, Lindenwood, Lincoln (MO), Central Missouri, SW Baptist (MO), Missouri Southern, Pittsburg State (KS), Washburn (KS), Emporia St (KS), Fort Hays State (KS), Northeastern State (OK) and Central Oklahoma

Or the Great Lakes Valley Conference - which is actually gaining 2 MAIAA teams (Lindenwood - actually the closest to MMU so that's not bad) and SW Baptist - far SW Missouri) which isn't a horrible conference spread but less than ideal and with the two joining is already at 16 members as of next year and looking at academic and student profiles of the conference MMU would be an outlier.

http://www.mckendree.edu/home/images/glvc-map-2013-3.png


Basically - MMU is the Augie of the NAIA world in the midwest


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[NDSU1980]

I have a hard time seeing Jamestown go D2......Jamestown will never go D2. They can't even compete where they are now.

[BisonFan02]

Jamestown will never go D2. They can't even compete where they are now.

Hasn't been a football school since Rollie died....but that's far down the list on why they won't. Smaller school/enrollment....different mission. They should be D3, but that is a whole different convo.

[Professor Chaos]

Sounds like this is official:

https://twitter.com/argusmattz/status/1073379510303768576

https://amp.argusleader.com/amp/2307262002?__twitter_impression=true

Sounds like football will be Pioneer League as expected but the big question is do they get Summit League membership like they're gunning for?

[Laker]

Sounds like this is official:

https://twitter.com/argusmattz/status/1073379510303768576

https://amp.argusleader.com/amp/2307262002?__twitter_impression=true

Sounds like football will be Pioneer League as expected but the big question is do they get Summit League membership like they're gunning for?

Yes. This is a done deal. They were D2 national champs in baseball last year so the Summit is glad to get another team for that sport.

[Thumper 76]

**** am I pissed right now.


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[Bison Fan in NW MN]

**** am I pissed right now.


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Can I listen to the whine session tomorrow in the tailgate?

xlolx

[Thumper 76]

Can I listen to the whine session tomorrow in the tailgate?

xlolx

You prolly don’t want to get me started on that there xlolx



I’m sure someone will though


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[Model Citizen]

PFL should be back to 12 members by 2022.

[cx500d]

PFL should be back to 12 members by 2022.

Augustana is centrally located for the PFL...The CA and FL teams must have a hefty travel budget.

[Laker]

No night football games at Augie. They built that nice new stadium but didn't put up any lights.

[TheKingpin28]

No night football games at Augie. They built that nice new stadium but didn't put up any lights.I'm guessing lights would be a priority by the time they full transition to D1

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[cx500d]

I'm guessing lights would be a priority by the time they full transition to D1

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Do you need lights if you only play afternoon games?

[TheKingpin28]

Do you need lights if you only play afternoon games?It has been known to make the scoreboard easier to read. xcoffeex

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[344Johnson]

No night football games at Augie. They built that nice new stadium but didn't put up any lights.

The only time NDSU ever plays night games is in the playoffs. To be honest, I hate late games. Notre Dame didn't get permanent lights put in until 1996 and in 2011, played their first night game since 1990. Lights aren't necessary to play a game of football.

[cx500d]

The only time NDSU ever plays night games is in the playoffs. To be honest, I hate late games. Notre Dame didn't get permanent lights put in until 1996 and in 2011, played their first night game since 1990. Lights aren't necessary to play a game of football.


Hell, early in the year it seems like we attempted to play a few games without lights...

[344Johnson]

Hell, early in the year it seems like we attempted to play a few games without lights...

Michigan's first night game at home was in 2011 also.

[HAL_9000]

Neither State has over a million inhabitants. Why the big push to have 5 D-I sports programs.

I don't mean to offend but, It's a little overkill. Absolutely know way on Earth Dakotas can support 5 D-Is without poaching out of their neighbors back yard.

classy.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Neither State has over a million inhabitants. Why the big push to have 5 D-I sports programs.

I don't mean to offend but, It's a little overkill. Absolutely know way on Earth Dakotas can support 5 D-Is without poaching out of their neighbors back yard.

classy.


Augie is a very small private school and with their football going non-scholarship they will not do much poaching from the other D1 schools. Plenty of good BB players in the region. The other sports? Who cares.

Now if they try and go scholarship football, all I will say is good luck....xlolx

[NDSU1980]

**** am I pissed right now.


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You worried about SDSU not being competitive against Augie?

[JacksFan40]

Augie is a very small private school and with their football going non-scholarship they will not do much poaching from the other D1 schools. Plenty of good BB players in the region. The other sports? Who cares.

Now if they try and go scholarship football, all I will say is good luck....xlolx
Augie wont try scholarship football until SDSU/NDSU go FBS.
I think they’ll do fine in the Pioneer honestly.

[SoDakSA]

Augie wont try scholarship football until SDSU/NDSU go FBS.
I think they’ll do fine in the Pioneer honestly.
Ya, I really dont see an issue with a non-scholly Augie. Plus it could add another solid MBB and baseball team to the summit. They are probably the best of the options to add.

[JacksFan40]

Ya, I really dont see an issue with a non-scholly Augie. Plus it could add another solid MBB and baseball team to the summit. They are probably the best of the options to add.
Much better than teams like UMKC, Chicago State etc.

[Bisonator]

Ya, I really dont see an issue with a non-scholly Augie. Plus it could add another solid MBB and baseball team to the summit. They are probably the best of the options to add.
Agreed. Plus another cheap cupcake OOC FB opponent. We will pay their bus fare for an ass whooping.:D

[GreenGlasses]

Augie wont try scholarship football until SDSU/NDSU go FBS.
I think they’ll do fine in the Pioneer honestly.

Which won't happen for years, if ever. There is no logical place for either to go. There won't be a revival of WAC football and the MWest isn't going to take you. The Sun Belt told Idaho and NMSU to kick rocks and the MAC is to far away. Plus neither school has the money or clout to pull off what Liberty done.

[Thumper 76]

You worried about SDSU not being competitive against Augie?

I’m worried about them leeching off corporate sponsorships and donation money as well as drawing away our casual fair weather fan base because of an easy option in Sioux Falls. More worried about them being a leech than anything and being a drag on the State schools. SD has under a million people and is going to have 3 DI universities within 75 miles of one city. That’s not a recipe for good things IMO.


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[JacksFan40]

I’m worried about them leeching off corporate sponsorships and donation money as well as drawing away our casual fair weather fan base because of an easy option in Sioux Falls. More worried about them being a leech than anything and being a drag on the State schools. SD has under a million people and is going to have 3 DI universities within 75 miles of one city. That’s not a recipe for good things IMO.


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I’d be fine if it was a west river team moving up, but neither BHSU or SD Mines are in any position to move up.

- - - Updated - - -


Which won't happen for years, if ever. There is no logical place for either to go. There won't be a revival of WAC football and the MWest isn't going to take you. The Sun Belt told Idaho and NMSU to kick rocks and the MAC is to far away. Plus neither school has the money or clout to pull off what Liberty done.
The MWC would be the best bet in my opinion, but they’d go after Montana and Montana State long before SDSU/NDSU.

[BisonBacker]

I’m worried about them leeching off corporate sponsorships and donation money as well as drawing away our casual fair weather fan base because of an easy option in Sioux Falls. More worried about them being a leech than anything and being a drag on the State schools. SD has under a million people and is going to have 3 DI universities within 75 miles of one city. That’s not a recipe for good things IMO.


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Agreed it will likely impact both SDSU and USD. Just how much is to be seen but a valid concern for sure.

[SoDakSA]

Agreed. Plus another cheap cupcake OOC FB opponent. We will pay their bus fare for an ass whooping.:D

Agreed.

I would rather play Augie than the cupcakes we have in the past. I would think it would draw better than all the non-conference games (and some of the conference games) for SDSU.

[Thumper 76]

Agreed it will likely impact both SDSU and USD. Just how much is to be seen but a valid concern for sure.

That and I have a real hard time seeing them being competitive in basketball for a while. It’s one thing to do well in DII with the DI school leftovers, it’s a completely different one to have to compete for athletes against the State schools, ND schools, UNO, UNI, UNL, and MN while having to go through transition. That’s a whole different animal that I don’t see them doing very well with.


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[dbackjon]

South Carolina, with a population of 5 million, has 12 DI teams, including colleges the same size roughly as Augie.

Combine that with the fact that Sioux Falls borders two states with combined 7.5 million population and only three DI teams (and only two with DI Football).

[clenz]

South Carolina, with a population of 5 million, has 12 DI teams, including colleges the same size roughly as Augie.

Combine that with the fact that Sioux Falls borders two states with combined 7.5 million population and only three DI teams (and only two with DI Football).

Minnesotas population is almost entirely in the Twin Cities

SW Minnesota is even more desolate than NW Iowa. It's all towns 15 or 20 miles apart that are less than 500 people.

Half of Iowa's population lives in the Des Moines/Ames metro (further away than the cities) Cedar Rapids/Iowa City and Waterloo Cedar Falls metro.

NW Iowa - where I grew up remember - is desolate. Lyon County (the one right next to SD) has less than 10k people in it with an average of in the 40s. There are 3 school districts in Lyon County. All 3 combined have less than 500 kids total in all 3 high schools.

Compare that to my kids school district in the CR area that has 1000 kids in her kindergarten class alone (aka larger than my home town which is the second largest town in Lyon County) my school district has more kids under 18 than Lyon County has total people.


You're stretching to make the numbers work.

You now have
Minnesota
Iowa
Iowa State
UNI
Drake
Nebraska
Creighton
Omaha
South Dakota State
South Dakota
North Dakota State
North Dakota



That's more than 3 D1s to fight with. In about absolutely empty area of the country.


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[dbackjon]

Minnesotas population is almost entirely in the Twin Cities

SW Minnesota is even more desolate than NW Iowa. It's all towns 15 or 20 miles apart that are less than 500 people.

Half of Iowa's population lives in the Des Moines/Ames metro (further away than the cities) Cedar Rapids/Iowa City and Waterloo Cedar Falls metro.

NW Iowa - where I grew up remember - is desolate. Lyon County (the one right next to SD) has less than 10k people in it with an average of in the 40s. There are 3 school districts in Lyon County. All 3 combined have less than 500 kids total in all 3 high schools.

Compare that to my kids school district in the CR area that has 1000 kids in her kindergarten class alone (aka larger than my home town which is the second largest town in Lyon County) my school district has more kids under 18 than Lyon County has total people.


You're stretching to make the numbers work.

You now have
Minnesota
Iowa
Iowa State
UNI
Drake
Nebraska
Creighton
Omaha
South Dakota State
South Dakota
North Dakota State
North Dakota



That's more than 3 D1s to fight with. In about absolutely empty area of the country.


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I didn't include Iowa in that - as well as I could have. I did forget about Creighton.

Whether the population is spread or concentrated, the fact that within a 4 hour drive, they can tap into Minneapolis, Omaha, and now that you mention it, Des Moines. Compare that to South Carolina, where in a state with 5 million, you have 12 D1.

Schools don't just recruit from within an hours drive.

[Laker]

12 minutes on the subject.

According to this, Augie will be in the NSIC for 2019-20.


Football has two options- scholarship or non-scholarship.


No plans to drop any sports.


Currently at 10 million for the athletic budget, more will have to be generated.

gomid.co/ll5v8 (https://t.co/x8PymAASqw)

[DFW HOYA]

It seems like most of the NCC has moved up to DI over the last 15 years.

Any rumblings of the same at Mankato?

[BisonFan02]

It seems like most of the NCC has moved up to DI over the last 15 years.

Any rumblings of the same at Mankato?

No more D1 schools in Minnesota.....wont happen.

[Laker]

It seems like most of the NCC has moved up to DI over the last 15 years.

Any rumblings of the same at Mankato?

Augie wants us to go with them. D1 men's & women's hockey is too much of a drain to go D1 in everything. There just isn't the local interest to make the move. If Glen Taylor decided to sell the T-Wolves and give it all to MSU, that would be about the only way it would happen.

[UNAPride]

It seems like most of the NCC has moved up to DI over the last 15 years.

Any rumblings of the same at Mankato?

It's sad the NCC no longer exists.

[jacksfan29]

12 minutes on the subject.

According to this, Augie will be in the NSIC for 2019-20.


Football has two options- scholarship or non-scholarship.


No plans to drop any sports.


Currently at 10 million for the athletic budget, more will have to be generated.

gomid.co/ll5v8 (https://t.co/x8PymAASqw)

They can't afford, nor support 19 programs at the D1 level. The guy is clueless. I believe SDSU is the only one of the big 4 who has that many sports and I would like to see a couple of the non-revenue cut. FB will have to go non-scholarship or my guess, be cut entirely. Wrestling is finished. No way they get a B12 or MAC invite. A lot of the non-revenue sports will need to disappear. The only way they can afford D1 is to focus on Basketball, baseball, T&F and to meet the minimum needed for the Summit, add Women's and Men's soccer.

As for FB, I would be interested in knowing what league they intend to join if they plan to play scholarship FB. They will never get an invite to the MVFC and Summit FB will not happen because SDSU, NDSU and USD are not interested in playing at a lower level. Plus WIU, if still in the league, will not leave the MVFC for Summit FB. And what happens if the (sometimes rumored) P5 take their ball and leave the lower G5 hanging? That would mean a shakeup of all D1 FB which would likely mean the higher level FCS leagues moving up and joining the G5. A scholarship playing Augustana cannot come close to affording FB at that the current MVFC level much less if the MVFC joins the G5.

The impression I get is the same one I have had since the beginning. This is all about one rich mans ego. No, not T Denny Sanford, Kelby Krabbenhoft and his wanting his local D2 school to be part of the SLT. This will not end well for Augustana College (yes, it is still a college).

[Laker]

I found this on another site:

Augustana's Current D-II Athletics Budget: $10.3 million
Augustana's school endowment:: $67 million in 2016

Summit League Comparisons:
NDSU's Current D-I Athletics Budget: $23.2 million (public school)
NDSU school endowment: $202 million in 2017

SDSU's Current D-I Athletics Budget: $20 million (public school)
SDSU school endowment: $113 million in 2017

Denver's Current D-I Athletics Budget: $35 million (private school)
Denver's school endowment: $711 million in 2017

[JacksFan40]

We might as well revitalize the NCC at this point. Bring Mankato up and have Omaha get football again. It’ll never happen though.

[NDSU1980]

We might as well revitalize the NCC at this point. Bring Mankato up and have Omaha get football again. It’ll never happen though.
And to think that NDSU and SDSU pushed hard back around 2003 to have the entire NCC more up en mass. I know UND absolutely ridiculed NDSU President Chapman for suggesting it and no one else would support it so the XDSU's had to go alone. Funny how most of the rest followed. Really sad to think about what could have been, even if the MN schools had no way to go along with moving up.

[ST_Lawson]

I found this on another site:

Augustana's Current D-II Athletics Budget: $10.3 million
Augustana's school endowment:: $67 million in 2016

Summit League Comparisons:
NDSU's Current D-I Athletics Budget: $23.2 million (public school)
NDSU school endowment: $202 million in 2017

SDSU's Current D-I Athletics Budget: $20 million (public school)
SDSU school endowment: $113 million in 2017

Denver's Current D-I Athletics Budget: $35 million (private school)
Denver's school endowment: $711 million in 2017

Augustana (SD) is a lot closer budget-wise to WIU. Then again...we're not great at most sports.

[Laker]

And to think that NDSU and SDSU pushed hard back around 2003 to have the entire NCC more up en mass. I know UND absolutely ridiculed NDSU President Chapman for suggesting it and no one else would support it so the XDSU's had to go alone. Funny how most of the rest followed. Really sad to think about what could have been, even if the MN schools had no way to go along with moving up.

There was a movement- I think around 1998- right before MSU went D1 in hockey- where the entire NCC talked about going en masse. Sure, Morningside wouldn't have gone- but they had the votes the first night. Then St. Cloud changed their minds the next day when the vote was finalized, and the idiots who ran MSU at the time had to follow along like puppy dogs. I've heard stories about that many times- that was the time to do it.

[Hammersmith]

There was a movement- I think around 1998- right before MSU went D1 in hockey- where the entire NCC talked about going en masse. Sure, Morningside wouldn't have gone- but they had the votes the first night. Then St. Cloud changed their minds the next day when the vote was finalized, and the idiots who ran MSU at the time had to follow along like puppy dogs. I've heard stories about that many times- that was the time to do it.

Was that 1998 or 2001-02? It was around 2001 when UNC kicked things off by deciding to go DI with Big Sky as their eventual intended target. NDSU was deciding between DI hockey or DI everything, and that depended on a city vote over a new hockey arena. The vote failed, and NDSU committed to DI everything. NDSU lobbied the NCC to move to DI as a whole(sans Morningside) with SDSU as a strong partner in the lobbying. USD was onboard through the voting. UND, SCSU and UNO lobbied hard against the move because they liked the DI hockey/DII everything else combination they already had. In the end, I think the vote was 5-4 against, with Morningside abstaining since they were leaving the conference the next year anyway(or maybe it was 6-4 against). With the failure, UNC moved right away, NDSU decided to wait one year to convince others, SDSU agreed pretty quick, and USD changed their mind and stayed DII.

[Laker]

Was that 1998 or 2001-02? It was around 2001 when UNC kicked things off by deciding to go DI with Big Sky as their eventual intended target. NDSU was deciding between DI hockey or DI everything, and that depended on a city vote over a new hockey arena. The vote failed, and NDSU committed to DI everything. NDSU lobbied the NCC to move to DI as a whole(sans Morningside) with SDSU as a strong partner in the lobbying. USD was onboard through the voting. UND, SCSU and UNO lobbied hard against the move because they liked the DI hockey/DII everything else combination they already had. In the end, I think the vote was 5-4 against, with Morningside abstaining since they were leaving the conference the next year anyway(or maybe it was 6-4 against). With the failure, UNC moved right away, NDSU decided to wait one year to convince others, SDSU agreed pretty quick, and USD changed their mind and stayed DII.

That was the best thing that could have happened to NDSU. Hockey is terribly expensive- and even more so when you have a women's team. And football draws way more people.

[nodak651]

That was the best thing that could have happened to NDSU. Hockey is terribly expensive- and even more so when you have a women's team. And football draws way more people.

Not at MSU.

[Yote 53]

And to think that NDSU and SDSU pushed hard back around 2003 to have the entire NCC more up en mass. I know UND absolutely ridiculed NDSU President Chapman for suggesting it and no one else would support it so the XDSU's had to go alone. Funny how most of the rest followed. Really sad to think about what could have been, even if the MN schools had no way to go along with moving up.

I remember USD supporting NDSU and SDSU and voting in favor of the entire NCC move-up to D1, so I wouldn't say nobody supported you in that conference vote. It just took us a few more years to get our house in order before we could move up. I too remember the UND press conferences regarding NDSU moving up. At USD we marketed ourselves as "South Dakota's Team" but, as I know people in the athletic department and administration, the day the XDSU's announced they were moving to D1 I was told USD would soon be moving as well.

[Yote 53]

Was that 1998 or 2001-02? It was around 2001 when UNC kicked things off by deciding to go DI with Big Sky as their eventual intended target. NDSU was deciding between DI hockey or DI everything, and that depended on a city vote over a new hockey arena. The vote failed, and NDSU committed to DI everything. NDSU lobbied the NCC to move to DI as a whole(sans Morningside) with SDSU as a strong partner in the lobbying. USD was onboard through the voting. UND, SCSU and UNO lobbied hard against the move because they liked the DI hockey/DII everything else combination they already had. In the end, I think the vote was 5-4 against, with Morningside abstaining since they were leaving the conference the next year anyway(or maybe it was 6-4 against). With the failure, UNC moved right away, NDSU decided to wait one year to convince others, SDSU agreed pretty quick, and USD changed their mind and stayed DII.

Great synopsis.

[POD Knows]

I found this on another site:

Augustana's Current D-II Athletics Budget: $10.3 million
Augustana's school endowment:: $67 million in 2016

Summit League Comparisons:
NDSU's Current D-I Athletics Budget: $23.2 million (public school)
NDSU school endowment: $202 million in 2017

SDSU's Current D-I Athletics Budget: $20 million (public school)
SDSU school endowment: $113 million in 2017

Denver's Current D-I Athletics Budget: $35 million (private school)
Denver's school endowment: $711 million in 2017Wow, Denver at 35 Million, Lacrosse and Men's soccer must be expensive.

[Laker]

Wow, Denver at 35 Million, Lacrosse and Men's soccer must be expensive.

They sure don't spend it on basketball!

[POD Knows]

They sure don't spend it on basketball!I know hockey and stuff is pretty expensive but that number for DU really surprised me.

[Laker]

I know hockey and stuff is pretty expensive but that number for DU really surprised me.

Especially since they don't have a women's hockey team.

[cx500d]

Wow, Denver at 35 Million, Lacrosse and Men's soccer must be expensive.

Tuition there is 3x the public schools.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacksfan29]

They sure don't spend it on basketball!

Hockey is incredibly expensive and LAX at DU is not cheap. They are constantly traveling out east.

The big cost? It is $70K per year to attend DU.

And they actually do spend a lot of BB. The number isn't known due to it being a private institution, but my guess is Billups is the most expensive Men's BB coach in the Summit, but a wide margin.

[jacksfan29]

Over 400 of the 1,800 students at Augustana play sports and tuition/room and board is pushing $50K per year. What is the tuition at WIU? My guess, a lot less.

[Laker]

Steve Thomsen talked about Augie moving up at length on Saturday on WCCO radio. I was listening on my drive to Mankato for the basketball game. Steve used to work out in SF and asked what the long term benefits were to Augie. It is going to make the student population and publicity that much bigger? Or is it because of the ego of one man who is really pushing this? Obviously the results won't be known for a decade

[POD Knows]

Tuition there is 3x the public schools.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOk, I also didn't realize that the rosters on Lacrosse are as big as they are, DU shows 50+ guys on their roster, no idea how many are shollie athletes but that is a lot of body count.

[clenz]

Ok, I also didn't realize that the rosters on Lacrosse are as big as they are, DU shows 50+ guys on their roster, no idea how many are shollie athletes but that is a lot of body count.
Lacrosse is 12.6 scholarships.

[Yote 53]

Over 400 of the 1,800 students at Augustana play sports and tuition/room and board is pushing $50K per year. What is the tuition at WIU? My guess, a lot less.

I read someone say somewhere that because Augie is a private school they really don't need to fund their athletic scholarships, they can just allow the student-athletes a scholarship to go there for free and not really have to "pay" for it. That reason right there is why they cannot do that. You cannot have over 20% of your student population going to your school for free without funding them with some funding source to make up for that lost tuition.

There has been a lot written about the Augie 2030 plan. It has been surmised that a move to D1 is a piece of that transformation. My take is that the transformation has to take place in order to fund and support D1 athletics, Augie in its current state cannot afford and is not a D1 university. So I think we have a bit of the tail wagging the dog here. The plan should be to transform Augustana University first, and then when the school itself has grown in enrollment, stature, and financially you look at making a D1 move in athletics. They want to make the D1 move into athletics first and use that as the lead in dragging the academic side along.

[ccd494]

Ok, I also didn't realize that the rosters on Lacrosse are as big as they are, DU shows 50+ guys on their roster, no idea how many are shollie athletes but that is a lot of body count.

DU picks different sports to focus on than most universities, but the sports it goes all in on it doesn't skimp.

Hockey, skiing, lacrosse, soccer... all of them are funded to the max.

I think it's actually smart. They are spending where they can be most effective. For a number of reasons, spending the same amount on football wouldn't have much of an impact.

[ST_Lawson]

Over 400 of the 1,800 students at Augustana play sports and tuition/room and board is pushing $50K per year. What is the tuition at WIU? My guess, a lot less.

New WIU undergrad from anywhere in the US, living on campus (double room), taking 15 "hours" (~5 regular classes) a semester, is $11.5k/per semester or just over $23k/year, not including financial aid.
Breakdown of costs/fees is here: http://www.wiu.edu/vpas/business_services/billing/costs/

[DFW HOYA]

New WIU undergrad from anywhere in the US, living on campus (double room), taking 15 "hours" (~5 regular classes) a semester, is $11.5k/per semester or just over $23k/year, not including financial aid.
Breakdown of costs/fees is here: http://www.wiu.edu/vpas/business_services/billing/costs/

Not a lot of out of state kids at WIU.

http://www.wiu.edu/about/fastfacts.php

[Thumper 76]

Over 400 of the 1,800 students at Augustana play sports and tuition/room and board is pushing $50K per year. What is the tuition at WIU? My guess, a lot less.

That’s a huge percentage of the student body in athletics, my goodness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cx500d]

That’s a huge percentage of the student body in athletics, my goodness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think a lot of the private schools are like that. A coworker of mine has a daughter on the Bucknell volleyball team; Bucknell has a bunch of sports and a small student body.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

That’s a huge percentage of the student body in athletics, my goodness.


That's comparable to Davidson, with 424 student athletes in a college of similar size. Dartmouth has 900 student-athletes in a college of 4,200, so that's pretty strong as well.

[walliver]

That’s a huge percentage of the student body in athletics, my goodness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are two schools in the SoCon smaller than that that play scholarship FCS football. VMI does not sponsor a full slate of women's sports, however - no women's volleyball, women's basketball, or women's lacrosse. Wofford sponsors most major SoCon sports with the exceptions of softball, men's lacrosse, and wrestling. Presbyterian is also smaller than Augustana, but transitioning to the Pioneer league.

Keep in mind that outside of a few marquee sports, most teams, even at D-I level aren't spending big money on athletic scholarships, and a lot of those athletes are paying to play.

[Laker]

There are two schools in the SoCon smaller than that that play scholarship FCS football. VMI does not sponsor a full slate of women's sports, however - no women's volleyball, women's basketball, or women's lacrosse. Wofford sponsors most major SoCon sports with the exceptions of softball, men's lacrosse, and wrestling. Presbyterian is also smaller than Augustana, but transitioning to the Pioneer league.


I see that The Citadel and VMI are the only two D1 schools that don't have women's basketball. VMI has ten sports for men but only six for women. I don't know how Title IX rules handles that but there must be some exemption- is it because of % of male & female students there?

[ST_Lawson]

Not a lot of out of state kids at WIU.

http://www.wiu.edu/about/fastfacts.php

Most of our students come from the Chicago area. Also, in-state...out-of-state...doesn't matter in terms of tuition for us.

[Laker]

Earlier I posted that the NCAA requires you to have at least ten teams to form a new conference. Scroll to page five and you will see where it says that.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2019DIIMem_ConferenceApplication_20180913.pdf

[cx500d]

Earlier I posted that the NCAA requires you to have at least ten teams to form a new conference. Scroll to page five and you will see where it says that.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2019DIIMem_ConferenceApplication_20180913.pdf

That's for Division II, or at least that's what the document states

[Laker]

That's for Division II, or at least that's what the document states

Yes.

[Laker]

That's for Division II, or at least that's what the document states

Yes. I'm trying to find the site for D1 rules.

[cx500d]

Yes. I'm trying to find the site for D1 rules.


The first rule of D1 FBS is you do NOT talk about a real national championship

[Thumper 76]

There are two schools in the SoCon smaller than that that play scholarship FCS football. VMI does not sponsor a full slate of women's sports, however - no women's volleyball, women's basketball, or women's lacrosse. Wofford sponsors most major SoCon sports with the exceptions of softball, men's lacrosse, and wrestling. Presbyterian is also smaller than Augustana, but transitioning to the Pioneer league.

Keep in mind that outside of a few marquee sports, most teams, even at D-I level aren't spending big money on athletic scholarships, and a lot of those athletes are paying to play.

Big differences with those schools. First one being money. Second one being money. Third one being years and years of history.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[walliver]

I see that The Citadel and VMI are the only two D1 schools that don't have women's basketball. VMI has ten sports for men but only six for women. I don't know how Title IX rules handles that but there must be some exemption- is it because of % of male & female students there?

Title IX says that opportunities for women should be proportional to enrollment. Schools with low female enrollment don't have to provide as many women's sports.
In addition, most SoCon schools with rifle teams will have both a co-ed and women's rifle team.

[cx500d]

Title IX says that opportunities for women should be proportional to enrollment. Schools with low female enrollment don't have to provide as many women's sports.
In addition, most SoCon schools with rifle teams will have both a co-ed and women's rifle team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgjPa5JkecA

[Beer]

I might be alone in this but I think the Dakota schools in DI should say F you and the horse you rode in on to Auggie - regardless of their football status. Can the four Dakota schools really not keep out another school if they wanted to??

[Thumper 76]

I might be alone in this but I think the Dakota schools in DI should say F you and the horse you rode in on to Auggie - regardless of their football status. Can the four Dakota schools really not keep out another school if they wanted to??

I promise, you aren’t alone on this. And yes they could, especially the xDSUs IMO. They can get other schools to vote no on the Summit invite pretty easily if they wanted to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I might be alone in this but I think the Dakota schools in DI should say F you and the horse you rode in on to Auggie - regardless of their football status. Can the four Dakota schools really not keep out another school if they wanted to??


Bring them in. For me, doesn't matter one way or the other. For the Summit, it is a good deal because Ft. Wayne will be gone soon and another baseball team will be huge.

BB? There are enough good players in the region to support it.

Pioneer football? Good, another cupcake for the 4 Dakotas to schedule if they need to.

[Hammerhead]

I have no problem with them joining the Summit League. It's not like the conference is going to get any at-large bids for the basketball tournaments so who cares how good the conference is.

[Laker]

Does Augie need 6 or 7 of 9 votes to get invited? How will these schools vote? Sanford may be calling in some chips.

Denver- they want to go to the WCC. But that might take a while. Probably yes.
Fort Wayne- I'd say no. Puts the conference even more in the Dakotas. Would the Horizon invite them?
Nebraska-Omaha- do they care about anything besides hockey? Probably vote yes.
North Dakota- no Sanford $ that I know of- maybe a yes for travel costs?
North Dakota State- yes
Oral Roberts- probably yes
South Dakota- yes
South Dakota State- yes
Western Illinois- no. Would they go to the OVC?

What do the people from those schools think?

[ST_Lawson]

Personally, I would say no. We don't need another Centenary and it'd make travel more expensive for all but the Dakota schools. I don't know if we would go OVC or what, but I wouldn't be a fan of adding them to the conference.

[clenz]

Personally, I would say no. We don't need another Centenary and it'd make travel more expensive for all but the Dakota schools. I don't know if we would go OVC or what, but I wouldn't be a fan of adding them to the conference.I see 3 options for WIU, none of them involve the Summit for more than 4 or 5 years

1. Horizon League with football in the MVFC - ala Youngstown. PFW and WIU added to the Horizon, which wants to expand. Summit replaces them with Augie and UMKC

2. OVC as a Murray State replacement for them going g MVC and MVFC/PFL.

3. Non D1. Enrollment and funding bubbles in Illinois about to pop. I think SIUC and WIU are right in the middle of it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[ST_Lawson]

I see 3 options for WIU, none of them involve the Summit for more than 4 or 5 years

1. Horizon League with football in the MVFC - ala Youngstown. PFW and WIU added to the Horizon, which wants to expand. Summit replaces them with Augie and UMKC

2. OVC as a Murray State replacement for them going g MVC and MVFC/PFL.

3. Non D1. Enrollment and funding bubbles in Illinois about to pop. I think SIUC and WIU are right in the middle of it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

That's my feeling as well, and pretty much in my order of preference.


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[Model Citizen]

Laker,

Will Metro State move up? (no football)

[Laker]

Laker,

Will Metro State move up? (no football)

I would say no. They have made the D2 basketball tourney 17 out of 19 times. I remember watching them win national titles. But they haven't drawn flies in a market that has Denver (not a basketball draw either) and the Nuggets. Who is going to bankroll that?

The WAC is like a guy desperate to get a date for the prom. They will ask anyone.

https://www.cpr.org/news/story/after-35-years-as-top-contenders-in-division-ii-metro-state-considers-division-i

[clenz]

I would say no. They have made the D2 basketball tourney 17 out of 19 times. I remember watching them win national titles. But they haven't drawn flies in a market that has Denver (not a basketball draw either) and the Nuggets. Who is going to bankroll that?

The WAC is like a guy desperate to get a date for the prom. They will ask anyone.

https://www.cpr.org/news/story/after-35-years-as-top-contenders-in-division-ii-metro-state-considers-division-iWAC and Summit will merge at some point. Part of the WAC will go WCC. Some Summit to the Horizon

What's left will be the new Wammit League

Then NDSU can have their all important Wammit Football Conference.

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[BisonFan02]

WAC and Summit will merge at some point. Part of the WAC will go WCC. Some Summit to the Horizon

What's left will be the new Wammit League

Then NDSU can have their all important Wammit Football Conference.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

And you guys can go back to winning the ****ty Gateway again and put conference championships on your wall.

[clenz]

Time to piss off JackFan29, and others, by posting a longer version of this yet again.

There seems to be a push for the Summit League to start football - which would require much shuffling and seems really dumb. BUT, the path to do so might actually be best for the Summit (even if football stays MVFC) and maybe the MVFC/MVC

The Summit and WAC have always been nothing but revolving doors for the misfit underfunded but still want to be D1 programs. They have both served a purpose but have paid the price with their constantly rotating members, losing sports and being on the extreme razors edge of losing NCAA autobids for all sports and needing multiple special exemptions from the NCAA to not lose them (I'm looking right at you Summit).

The WAC and Summit should come to some sort of merger and facilitate the moves of those that don't want to be a part of it. To make this happen I think the Summit/WAC needs football. The WAC has this idea they will be an FBS conference, but that won't happen. The Summit/WAC merger (Which I will call the Wammit for this post) would serve as a nice third western US FCS conference that would allow for some better scheduling for the Big Sky, Southland and remaining MVFC schools.

First, the schools that won't be a part of the merger from the WAC:
Cal Baptist: Big West or WCC
Cal Bakersfield: Big West or WCC
Seattle: Big West or WCC
New Mexico State: Big West or WCC and FBS Indy still
Chicago State: I think they are dead and it's a matter of time.


From the Summit:
PFW: Been no secret they are wanting an HL invite. I think one is coming anyway, but this move likely involves facilitating moves and they are gone
WIU: They seem like they could be an OVC fit but I really think they go HL and leave football in the MVFC.
Denver: Better fit in the WCC or Big West with the 3 from the WAC.

Adds from other sources:
I think Northern Colorado would be a natural fit here. It would solves a few issues in the Big Sky as well (13 members to 12 for football and 11 full time members to 10)

That means the new Wammit is a nice 12 team conference


Augustana


Grand Canyon


North Dakota


North Dakota State


Northern Colorado


Omaha


Oral Roberts


Rio Grande Valley


South Dakota


South Dakota State


UMKC


Utah Valley




The issue this leaves is football is still only at 5 members. The Dakota 4 plus UNC. The Big Sky still has an unbalanced schedule because they are still at 12 with their affiliate members. This all works nicely, given the transition history in the Great West.

Davis and Poly join the Wammit as football affiliate members. So you'd have a Wammit football conference of


North Dakota


North Dakota State


Northern Colorado


South Dakota


South Dakota State


Cal Poly


UC Davis



Yes, that's only 6 conference games, but the MVFC and Big Sky set up scheduling agreements to fill those

The MVC/MVFC adds Murray State and is an 8 team league of


Illinois State


Indiana State


Missouri State


Murray State


Northern Iowa


Southern Illinois


Western Illinois


Youngstown State




Plenty of OOC games to be had between those tree, plus the SLC is going back to 8 conference games so there is more OOC dates.

Sure, both of those conferences are weaker than the MVFC, but big deal. It won't impact NDSU or SDSU. The average Massey Composite of the conference (based on this past year) would be in the 30s for both and both would still be top 4 or 5 in the FCS.


Or the Wammit could exist, UNC and the football affiliates stay in the Big Sky and the MVFC is a 12 team league with



Illinois State


Indiana State


Missouri State


Murray State


North Dakota


North Dakota State


Northern Iowa


South Dakota


South Dakota State


Southern Illinois


Western Illinois


Youngstown State

[cx500d]

Time to piss off JackFan29, and others, by posting a longer version of this yet again.

There seems to be a push for the Summit League to start football - which would require much shuffling and seems really dumb. BUT, the path to do so might actually be best for the Summit (even if football stays MVFC) and maybe the MVFC/MVC

The Summit and WAC have always been nothing but revolving doors for the misfit underfunded but still want to be D1 programs. They have both served a purpose but have paid the price with their constantly rotating members, losing sports and being on the extreme razors edge of losing NCAA autobids for all sports and needing multiple special exemptions from the NCAA to not lose them (I'm looking right at you Summit).

The WAC and Summit should come to some sort of merger and facilitate the moves of those that don't want to be a part of it. To make this happen I think the Summit/WAC needs football. The WAC has this idea they will be an FBS conference, but that won't happen. The Summit/WAC merger (Which I will call the Wammit for this post) would serve as a nice third western US FCS conference that would allow for some better scheduling for the Big Sky, Southland and remaining MVFC schools.

First, the schools that won't be a part of the merger from the WAC:
Cal Baptist: Big West or WCC
Cal Bakersfield: Big West or WCC
Seattle: Big West or WCC
New Mexico State: Big West or WCC and FBS Indy still
Chicago State: I think they are dead and it's a matter of time.


From the Summit:
PFW: Been no secret they are wanting an HL invite. I think one is coming anyway, but this move likely involves facilitating moves and they are gone
WIU: They seem like they could be an OVC fit but I really think they go HL and leave football in the MVFC.
Denver: Better fit in the WCC or Big West with the 3 from the WAC.

Adds from other sources:
I think Northern Colorado would be a natural fit here. It would solves a few issues in the Big Sky as well (13 members to 12 for football and 11 full time members to 10)

That means the new Wammit is a nice 12 team conference


Augustana


Grand Canyon


North Dakota


North Dakota State


Northern Colorado


Omaha


Oral Roberts


Rio Grande Valley


South Dakota


South Dakota State


UMKC


Utah Valley



The issue this leaves is football is still only at 5 members. The Dakota 4 plus UNC. The Big Sky still has an unbalanced schedule because they are still at 12 with their affiliate members. This all works nicely, given the transition history in the Great West.

Davis and Poly join the Wammit as football affiliate members. So you'd have a Wammit football conference of


North Dakota


North Dakota State


Northern Colorado


South Dakota


South Dakota State


Cal Poly


UC Davis



Yes, that's only 6 conference games, but the MVFC and Big Sky set up scheduling agreements to fill those

The MVC/MVFC adds Murray State and is an 8 team league of


Illinois State


Indiana State


Missouri State


Murray State


Northern Iowa


Southern Illinois


Western Illinois


Youngstown State




Plenty of OOC games to be had between those tree, plus the SLC is going back to 8 conference games so there is more OOC dates.

Sure, both of those conferences are weaker than the MVFC, but big deal. It won't impact NDSU or SDSU. The average Massey Composite of the conference (based on this past year) would be in the 30s for both and both would still be top 4 or 5 in the FCS.


Or the Wammit could exist, UNC and the football affiliates stay in the Big Sky and the MVFC is a 12 team league with



Illinois State


Indiana State


Missouri State


Murray State


North Dakota


North Dakota State


Northern Iowa


South Dakota


South Dakota State


Southern Illinois


Western Illinois


Youngstown State





Let me get this straight...most of the teams in states bifurcated by the missouri river leave the missouri valley conference, and the remaining teams are those mostly not bordering the missouri river?

[clenz]

Let me get this straight...most of the teams in states bifurcated by the missouri river leave the missouri valley conference, and the remaining teams are those mostly not bordering the missouri river?
How would it be different than the MVC for the last few decades?

Office is located in the heart of the Missouri River mouth.

BFD.

Also, changing the name from the Gateway to MVFC was dumb to begin with. Shouldn't have never left the Gateway name.

[dbackjon]

Cal Baptist: Big West or WCC - Neither will take Cal Baptist
Cal Bakersfield: Big West or WCC - Already Joining Big West
Seattle: Big West or WCC - Big West won't take them, only chance for WCC is if Gonzaga leaves
New Mexico State: Big West or WCC and FBS Indy still - Big West or WCC won't take them. MVC is best bet to escape the WAC
Chicago State: I think they are dead and it's a matter of time. - Probably


From the Summit:
PFW: Been no secret they are wanting an HL invite. I think one is coming anyway, but this move likely involves facilitating moves and they are gone
WIU: They seem like they could be an OVC fit but I really think they go HL and leave football in the MVFC.
Denver: Better fit in the WCC or Big West with the 3 from the WAC. Big West won't take them (too far). WCC already rejected them.

Adds from other sources:
I think Northern Colorado would be a natural fit here. It would solves a few issues in the Big Sky as well (13 members to 12 for football and 11 full time members to 10)

That means the new Wammit is a nice 12 team conference


Augustana


Grand Canyon


North Dakota


North Dakota State


Northern Colorado


Omaha


Oral Roberts


Rio Grande Valley


South Dakota


South Dakota State


UMKC


Utah Valley


The issue this leaves is football is still only at 5 members. The Dakota 4 plus UNC. The Big Sky still has an unbalanced schedule because they are still at 12 with their affiliate members. This all works nicely, given the transition history in the Great West. - UTRGV wants to add football. Dixie State wants to go DI, needs home for Football

Davis and Poly join the Wammit as football affiliate members. So you'd have a Wammit football conference of


North Dakota


North Dakota State


Northern Colorado


South Dakota


South Dakota State


Cal Poly


UC Davis



Yes, that's only 6 conference games, but the MVFC and Big Sky set up scheduling agreements to fill those

The MVC/MVFC adds Murray State and is an 8 team league of


Illinois State


Indiana State


Missouri State


Murray State


Northern Iowa


Southern Illinois


Western Illinois


Youngstown State




Plenty of OOC games to be had between those tree, plus the SLC is going back to 8 conference games so there is more OOC dates.

Sure, both of those conferences are weaker than the MVFC, but big deal. It won't impact NDSU or SDSU. The average Massey Composite of the conference (based on this past year) would be in the 30s for both and both would still be top 4 or 5 in the FCS.


Or the Wammit could exist, UNC and the football affiliates stay in the Big Sky and the MVFC is a 12 team league with



Illinois State


Indiana State


Missouri State


Murray State


North Dakota


North Dakota State


Northern Iowa


South Dakota


South Dakota State


Southern Illinois


Western Illinois


Youngstown State




Comments in red

[cx500d]

Comments in red


Citdog wants Dixie State to join The Citadel

[dbackjon]

Citdog wants Dixie State to join The Citadel

Long flight to Southern Utah

[cx500d]

Long flight to Southern Utah


Doesn't matter, the South will rise again....supposedly

[FargoBison]

NDSU isn't leaving the MVFC, at least not for that garbage conference. End of the Wammit nonsense discussion.

[citdog]

Doesn't matter, the South will rise again

This guy gets it!

[Model Citizen]

Summit? Valley ?

Sounds like a Marvin Gaye song.

[dgtw]

Personally, I would say no. We don't need another Centenary and it'd make travel more expensive for all but the Dakota schools. I don't know if we would go OVC or what, but I wouldn't be a fan of adding them to the conference.

If Murray leaves I wouldn’t object to WIU joining. But I would rather pursue someone closer to Jacksonville. My choice would be Kennesaw State.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cx500d]

Summit? Valley ?

Sounds like a Marvin Gaye song.


More like an oxymoron....

[JacksFan40]

Might as well revitalize the NCC at this point.

[Laker]

Sanford Health has broken ground for a new clinic to be located on Sanford Sports Complex grounds in northwest Sioux Falls. The 8,000 square foot facility will house a Sanford Acute Care and Orthopedic Fast Track Clinic and the headquarters for The Summit League

https://news.sanfordhealth.org/news/sioux-falls-sports-complex-clinic/?&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=organic-post&utm_campaign=sanford-health-sports-complex-clinic&utm_content=ent&sf97286745=1

[Bisonator]

Sanford Health has broken ground for a new clinic to be located on Sanford Sports Complex grounds in northwest Sioux Falls. The 8,000 square foot facility will house a Sanford Acute Care and Orthopedic Fast Track Clinic and the headquarters for The Summit League

https://news.sanfordhealth.org/news/sioux-falls-sports-complex-clinic/?&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=organic-post&utm_campaign=sanford-health-sports-complex-clinic&utm_content=ent&sf97286745=1
Lol wonder when the name change is coming....The Sanford Leaguexlolx

[Laker]

Lol wonder when the name change is coming....The Sanford Leaguexlolx

All it will take is like the Clint Eastwood movie- "For A Few Dollars More".

[ST_Lawson]

When does our check show up?

[Laker]

Augie has talked to the Summit- but no other new info. They are playing all NSIC conference games at the Pentagon next year, with non-conference basketball games being held at the Elmen Center on campus.

https://kwsn.com/news/articles/2019/mar/08/summit-league-commissioner-has-talked-with-augustana-but-no-formal-action-yet/

[Model Citizen]

Once every 25 years, the NCAA and its conferences should offer "conference realignment forgiveness." No penalties for switching conferences, e.g. exit fees, sacrificing March Madness TV money. Let conferences swap members like they were Laker's avatars. The Midwestern all-sports conferences are all wrong. Here's what they should look like.

Lower Missouri Valley...sorry, no auto bid in football (do they need one?)
ND
NDSU
SD
SDSU
Augie
UMKC
Denver
Omaha

Foxtrot Charlie Sierra Conference (all sports)
Illinois St.
UNI
Indiana St.
Western Illinois
Eastern Illinois
Southern Illinois
Missouri St.
SEMO

Safety School Society
Valpo
Drake
Butler
Dayton
Evansville
Belmont
Loyola-Chicago
Bradley
other current PFL schools (associate members in fb)

WAC
Takes Oral Roberts

OVC
Takes YSU as a fb associate.

Horizon
Takes Ft. Wayne and anyone else displaced by the above moves.

[BisonFan02]

Once every 25 years, the NCAA and its conferences should offer "conference realignment forgiveness." No penalties for switching conferences, e.g. exit fees, sacrificing March Madness TV money. Let conferences swap members like they were Laker's avatars. The Midwestern all-sports conferences are all wrong. Here's what they should look like.

Lower Missouri Valley...sorry, no auto bid in football (do they need one?)
ND
NDSU
SD
SDSU
Augie
UMKC
Denver
Omaha

Foxtrot Charlie Sierra Conference (all sports)
Illinois St.
UNI
Indiana St.
Western Illinois
Eastern Illinois
Southern Illinois
Missouri St.
SEMO

Safety School Society
Valpo
Drake
Butler
Dayton
Evansville
Belmont
Loyola-Chicago
Bradley
other current PFL schools (associate members in fb)

WAC
Takes Oral Roberts

OVC
Takes YSU as a fb associate.

Horizon
Takes Ft. Wayne and anyone else displaced by the above moves.

Trash......

[Laker]

Let conferences swap members like they were Laker's avatars.

You mean baseball caps. I only have one avatar that I use on both sites. I have over 700 caps in my collection. As my father use to tell me about that- "You don't need that many caps. You only have one head, and you don't use that very often!"

[POD Knows]

You mean baseball caps. I only have one avatar that I use on both sites. I have over 700 caps in my collection. As my father use to tell me about that- "You don't need that many caps. You only have one head, and you don't use that very often!"What kind of caps do you collect? I have boxes of hats that I need to get rid of.

[Model Citizen]

Thought you might have a herd of purple cattle. :D

[Laker]

What kind of caps do you collect? I have boxes of hats that I need to get rid of.

College and pro sports caps. When I get duplicates or newer ones, I bring the older ones to the schools that I visit. I gave ten to the teacher at Paynesville yesterday.

https://www.srperspective.com/2017/03/cap-man/

[Laker]

Thought you might have a herd of purple cattle. :D

Many times I've been wearing Maverick gear and someone thinks it is Minnesota Viking stuff!

I never saw a Purple Cow,
I never hope to see one;
But I can tell you, anyhow,
I'd rather see than be one.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Cow#cite_note-1)

[POD Knows]

College and pro sports caps. When I get duplicates or newer ones, I bring the older ones to the schools that I visit. I gave ten to the teacher at Paynesville yesterday.

https://www.srperspective.com/2017/03/cap-man/I might have a Minot Mallards hat laying around someplace.

[nodak651]

This is interesting. St. Thomas should just say f it, and move up to the NSIC.

https://twitter.com/StribSports/status/1114003664795054080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1114003664795054080&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.siouxsports.com%2Finde x.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsystem%26controller% 3Dembed%26url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FStribS ports%2Fstatus%2F1114003664795054080%3Fs%3D19

[POD Knows]

This is interesting. St. Thomas should just say f it, and move up to the NSIC.

https://twitter.com/StribSports/status/1114003664795054080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1114003664795054080&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.siouxsports.com%2Finde x.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsystem%26controller% 3Dembed%26url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FStribS ports%2Fstatus%2F1114003664795054080%3Fs%3D19
Yea, this is in another thread, they are going to go D1 in hockey because, well, little private schools do well in that DI segment.

[nodak651]

Yea, this is in another thread, they are going to go D1 in hockey because, well, little private schools do well in that DI segment.

Kinda like the Big East?

[POD Knows]

Kinda like the Big East?Yea, pretty much all those NE DI programs.

[BisonFan02]

Kinda like the Big East?

If we are considering a Canadian niche sport being "kinda like" basketball, sure! xlolx

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I thought all of those hockey programs in the NE are grandfathered in, and that door is closed...

[BisonFan02]

I thought all of those hockey programs in the NE are grandfathered in, and that door is closed...

They need to take anyone with a pulse who wants D1 hockey at this point.

[hebmskebm]

I thought all of those hockey programs in the NE are grandfathered in, and that door is closed...

The grandfather clause is only in reference to offering athletic scholarships. There are other D3 schools playing D1 hockey that don't offer scholarships but want to be D1 for whatever reason.

One of those non-scholarship schools, Union College, actually won the Frozen Four a few years ago.

[nodak651]

The grandfather clause is only in reference to offering athletic scholarships. There are other D3 schools playing D1 hockey that don't offer scholarships but want to be D1 for whatever reason.

One of those non-scholarship schools, Union College, actually won the Frozen Four a few years ago.

No D3's cannot move up anymore. The scholarship thing is also correct.

[Model Citizen]

If U. St. Thomas were to move to D-II, then to D-I, what would be their minimum timeframe to achieve D-I membership?

[Laker]

If U. St. Thomas were to move to D-II, then to D-I, what would be their minimum timeframe to achieve D-I membership?

I'm guessing something like seven years?

[clenz]

I'm guessing something like seven years?More than that. It's 4 years to go D3 to D2 once you initiate the move.

4 years D2 to D1.

Plus time to study the feasibility up from for D3 to D1... Minimum of 9-10 years


That's if you find a D1 conference willing to take you before you play a D2 year and are allowed to start your D1 transition the day after you finish your D2 transition. That won't happen.

Realistically speaking you're looking 14 years at least.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

More than that. It's 4 years to go D3 to D2 once you initiate the move.

4 years D2 to D1.

Plus time to study the feasibility up from for D3 to D1... Minimum of 9-10 years


That's if you find a D1 conference willing to take you before you play a D2 year and are allowed to start your D1 transition the day after you finish your D2 transition. That won't happen.

Realistically speaking you're looking 14 years at least.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using TapatalkHow about hockey, once they go D2, they should be loaded for bear for D1 hockey, no?

[ccd494]

How about hockey, once they go D2, they should be loaded for bear for D1 hockey, no?

Correct. The door is slammed shut on D3's playing D1 hockey. The teams who are up with scholarships got in before the split back in the early 80's. The teams who are up and non-scholarship got in ahead of the crackdown on extra-divisional play (which we around here would most recognize as the Dayton Rule).

D2's can play up as there is no D2 level.

[UAalum72]

KInd of the reverse of the Dayton rule. D-R said D-I schools couldn't play football down, the hockey rule was D-III not playing up, probably why it lasted ten years longer.

[Pinnum]

If U. St. Thomas were to move to D-II, then to D-I, what would be their minimum timeframe to achieve D-I membership?

In ice hockey, they could play in D1 as soon as they are in D2. There is no recognized D2 championship in ice hockey so all D2 schools are able to play in D1.

For other sports (football) it would be harder as they would have to be in good standing in D2 first and if they had D1 ambitions a D2 conference would be less likely to take them.

[nodak651]

In ice hockey, they could play in D1 as soon as they are in D2. There is no recognized D2 championship in ice hockey so all D2 schools are able to play in D1.

For other sports (football) it would be harder as they would have to be in good standing in D2 first and if they had D1 ambitions a D2 conference would be less likely to take them.

Which is kind of interesting because there are a handful of D2 schools with hockey that play D3 schedules, but are ineligable for the playoffs.

[Laker]

Which is kind of interesting because there are a handful of D2 schools with hockey that play D3 schedules, but are ineligable for the playoffs.

I think these are the D2 teams-
AssumptionFranklin Pierce
Saint Anselm
Saint Michael's
Southern NH
Stonehill
Post

[dgtw]

How many D1 hockey teams are D2 in everything else?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Laker]

How many D1 hockey teams are D2 in everything else?

14. It was 15 this year but one is moving up.

Alabama Huntsville
Alaska-Anchorage
Alaska-Fairbanks
American International
Bemidji State
Bentley
Ferris State
Lake Superior State
Mercyhurst
Michigan Tech
Minnesota-Duluth
Minnesota State Mankato
Northern Michigan
St Cloud State

Merrimack is moving to D1

[POD Knows]

How many D1 hockey teams are D2 in everything else?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
D2 or D2 and lower. I used to have that number. It is pretty close to a third of all D1 programs hockey programs.

[ccd494]

How many D1 hockey teams are D2 in everything else?

There are 60 teams playing D-I hockey. 15 are D-2 (although Hockey East's Merrimack begins its transition upwards on July 1). Of those, 3 are in Atlantic Hockey, 2 are in the NCHC, and 9 are in the WCHA (Bowling Green is the only full D-I school in the WCHA). There are 6 D-3 schools, 4 of whom can give scholarships and 2 who cannot.

D2: American International, Bentley, Mercyhurst, Merrimack*, St. Cloud State, Minnesota Duluth, Minnesota State, Northern Michigan, Lake Superior, Bemidji State, Michigan Tech, Alaska, Alabama-Huntsville, Ferris State, Alaska Anchorage

D3 scholarship: Clarkson, Rensselaer, St. Lawrence, Colorado College

D3 non-scholarship: RIT, Union

[dgtw]

Thank you all for the information.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pinnum]

Which is kind of interesting because there are a handful of D2 schools with hockey that play D3 schedules, but are ineligable for the playoffs.

You're thinking of the Northeast-10. They are the only D2 conference for ice hockey. But each of the teams could go to the D1 championship if they wanted. They choose not to participate in the D1 championships like the Ivy League does in football. P

art of the reason for this is they can play D3 schools by opting out of the D1 championship. If they want to play in the D1 championship then they need to meet D1 scheduling requirements which would require them to spend more in travel and they wouldn't be competitive against the D1 teams. So they would spend more money and be less successful. A lose-lose.

They have found a sweet spot as they have a conference against peers where they have competitive games in a local region but they can also offer scholarships to attract some good players and can play D3 schools to ensure they always have some success.

[ccd494]

You're thinking of the Northeast-10. They are the only D2 conference for ice hockey. But each of the teams could go to the D1 championship if they wanted. They choose not to participate in the D1 championships like the Ivy League does in football. P

art of the reason for this is they can play D3 schools by opting out of the D1 championship. If they want to play in the D1 championship then they need to meet D1 scheduling requirements which would require them to spend more in travel and they wouldn't be competitive against the D1 teams. So they would spend more money and be less successful. A lose-lose.

They have found a sweet spot as they have a conference against peers where they have competitive games in a local region but they can also offer scholarships to attract some good players and can play D3 schools to ensure they always have some success.

I'm not sure how many of them offer hockey scholarships. Their spending is probably below most D-3's as well. Any of them could wake up tomorrow and join Atlantic Hockey if they so chose, but I don't see that ever happening.

[Hammerhead]

My wife wants me to pare down my collection and I only have about 50. Most are souvenirs from our travels and about 1/3 are sports teams. My oldest one is from 1994 celebrating 100 years of NDSU football.


You mean baseball caps. I only have one avatar that I use on both sites. I have over 700 caps in my collection. As my father use to tell me about that- "You don't need that many caps. You only have one head, and you don't use that very often!"

[TheKingpin28]

http://www.startribune.com/augsburg-president-believes-consensus-exists-to-remove-st-thomas-from-miac/509752432/


Augsburg President Paul Pribbenow believes a consensus has formed among MIAC schools to remove St. Thomas from the conference and “reluctantly supports” that decision, according to e-mails obtained by the Star Tribune. In an exchange with an Augsburg supporter, Pribbenow wrote that several schools have threatened to leave the MIAC in recent years. He said he wants “the MIAC to remain as whole as is possible,” even if it means St. Thomas must be expelled. “My sense is that we have reached a consensus that will keep 12 schools together in the MIAC and that we will support St. Thomas’s efforts to find a new conference home,”

[cx500d]

My wife wants me to pare down my collection and I only have about 50. Most are souvenirs from our travels and about 1/3 are sports teams. My oldest one is from 1994 celebrating 100 years of NDSU football.

I've got that one too

[Model Citizen]

It's been months since the Augustana D-I "announcement," yet they have given no details on timing or conference membership. Now the Summit has announced that UMKC will be rejoining next year. I think that will bring the Summit up to 10 members.

What's up with Augie?

[clenz]

WIU is taking water on faster than the worlds strongest pump could move it out....


They'll need a replacement soon.

[Laker]

It's been months since the Augustana D-I "announcement," yet they have given no details on timing or conference membership. Now the Summit has announced that UMKC will be rejoining next year. I think that will bring the Summit up to 10 members.

What's up with Augie?

I wonder if PFW would go to the Horizon and be replaced by another I-29 school in Augustana.

[Model Citizen]

I wonder if PFW would go to the Horizon ...

Would if they were invited. I can't think of a single reason the Horizon would want them, especially without bringing in a second school to keep membership at an even number.

Assuming Augie does not abandon its quest for D-I membership, the WAC might be their only available conference. The WAC wants to have at least 10 members. With Bakersfield and Kansas City leaving, the WAC probably won't be choosey.

[clenz]

There's a death sentence for the hopes of a successful move.

That would financially cripple them from day 1

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Laker]

Would if they were invited. I can't think of a single reason the Horizon would want them, especially without bringing in a second school to keep membership at an even number.

Assuming Augie does not abandon its quest for D-I membership, the WAC might be their only available conference. The WAC wants to have at least 10 members. With Bakersfield and Kansas City leaving, the WAC probably won't be choosey.

I don't think they would move if that was their only option. The Summit League office was moved to Sioux Falls- and will be located (if it isn't already) in the Pentagon where Augie will be playing. I'd bet the farm that Augie will get an invite from them.

[Model Citizen]

There's a death sentence for the hopes of a successful move.

That would financially cripple them from day 1



Expensive travel, for sure.

If indeed the Summit loses a Ft. Wayne or WIU in a few years, I guess they would have more interest in Augie. However, Daddy Warbucks is in his 80s, and he wants to see the D-I move happen with his own eyes. I think Augustana will take action soon, even if they end up pulling a UMKC later.

[ST_Lawson]

WIU is taking water on faster than the worlds strongest pump could move it out....

It's ok, I'm a decent swimmer.

[Thumper 76]

[/FONT][/COLOR]



Expensive travel, for sure.

If indeed the Summit loses a Ft. Wayne or WIU in a few years, I guess they would have more interest in Augie. However, Daddy Warbucks is in his 80s, and he wants to see the D-I move happen with his own eyes. I think Augustana will take action soon, even if they end up pulling a UMKC later.

That would be a huge kick in the balls to them, mostly because IMO a large motivation to them is hating having the SLT in their backyard with SDSU and USeD getting all the attention during it. They want in on that bad.


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[Yote 53]

There's a death sentence for the hopes of a successful move.

That would financially cripple them from day 1

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

I don't think it is a bad thing for Augustana to have to prove they can handle the finances of D1 and the travel that goes along with it. They should have to cut their teeth in the WAC first. All four of the Dakota schools broke into D1 in the far flung Great West Conference that was a truly nationwide conference, from California to Houston Baptist to New Jersey. If they can hack it, great, otherwise, hit the bricks.

[JacksFan40]

I don't think it is a bad thing for Augustana to have to prove they can handle the finances of D1 and the travel that goes along with it. They should have to cut their teeth in the WAC first. All four of the Dakota schools broke into D1 in the far flung Great West Conference that was a truly nationwide conference, from California to Houston Baptist to New Jersey. If they can hack it, great, otherwise, hit the bricks.
Nothing screams “Great West” quite like NJIT.

[Yote 53]

Nothing screams “Great West” quite like NJIT.

It was the Great West(ern Hemisphere) Conference

[clenz]

I don't think it is a bad thing for Augustana to have to prove they can handle the finances of D1 and the travel that goes along with it. They should have to cut their teeth in the WAC first. All four of the Dakota schools broke into D1 in the far flung Great West Conference that was a truly nationwide conference, from California to Houston Baptist to New Jersey. If they can hack it, great, otherwise, hit the bricks.
And it nearly bankrupted UND...who was rewarded with a SL/MVFC invite after the Big Sky asked them to explore other options.

I have no problem bankrupting them if they want to try to move D1. If you want to be a "big boy" you need to be willing to act like one.

[abc123]

And it nearly bankrupted UND...who was rewarded with a SL/MVFC invite after the Big Sky asked them to explore other options.


Some creative liberties taken with this comment.

Yes, UND faced some budget issues, but it had a lot more to do with offering too many sports (and the black hole known as women's ice hockey) plus the huge cuts in the state's budget than it did with travel expenses. The conversations involving UND to the Summit/MVFC were ongoing well before any budget stuff came up and there was no mandate, official or unofficial, from the Big Sky to find another conference. No argument that decreased travel expenses won't be an added benefit and was a consideration when the change was made, but there was a lot more to it than that.

[F'N Hawks]

And it nearly bankrupted UND...who was rewarded with a SL/MVFC invite after the Big Sky asked them to explore other options.

I have no problem bankrupting them if they want to try to move D1. If you want to be a "big boy" you need to be willing to act like one.

Kind of along the lines of "we only won by 3 over an upstart SLC team at home but in reality we kicked the living hell of out them all game and like, totally dominated".

[IBleedYellow]

Some creative liberties taken with this comment.

Yes, UND faced some budget issues, but it had a lot more to do with offering too many sports (and the black hole known as women's ice hockey) plus the huge cuts in the state's budget than it did with travel expenses. The conversations involving UND to the Summit/MVFC were ongoing well before any budget stuff came up and there was no mandate, official or unofficial, from the Big Sky to find another conference. No argument that decreased travel expenses won't be an added benefit and was a consideration when the change was made, but there was a lot more to it than that.


Kind of along the lines of "we only won by 3 over an upstart SLC team at home but in reality we kicked the living hell of out them all game and like, totally dominated".

My one comment on UND and the Big Sky: You don't waive the exit fee for a program that you value and want to see stay in your conference. The Big Sky waived the exit fee for UND.

[F'N Hawks]

My one comment on UND and the Big Sky: You don't waive the exit fee for a program that you value and want to see stay in your conference. The Big Sky waived the exit fee for UND.

That's heavy. Need to re-think some things - will be back later.

In the meantime, the Big Sky had 13 teams and was looking to shed programs - and is looking to shed more as we speak. So yes, they were more than happy to let UND leave (even though the most important school President's weren't).

[nodak651]

My one comment on UND and the Big Sky: You don't waive the exit fee for a program that you value and want to see stay in your conference. The Big Sky waived the exit fee for UND.

They valued the program. The decision to waive the fee was mutually beneficial due to $$$$$$ (travel). Most of the Big Sky schools don't have a lot of extra cash laying around. Pretty sure UND had conference titles in Football, Basketball, and Volleyball at about the time the decision was made.

[clenz]

They valued the program. The decision to waive the fee was mutually beneficial due to $$$$$$ (travel). Most of the Big Sky schools don't have a lot of extra cash laying around. Pretty sure UND had conference titles in Football, Basketball, and Volleyball at about the time the decision was made.If Big Sky schools are strapped for cash why not get cash from the school leaving?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[abc123]

If Big Sky schools are strapped for cash why not get cash from the school leaving?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Because that would go against the agreement that was made (https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/sports/bobcats/south-dakota-will-not-join-big-sky-conference/article_a76f88ac-e871-11df-b0ea-001cc4c002e0.html) when UND joined the conference? The fee wasn't "waived" so the Big Sky could get rid of UND. It wasn't applicable because UND followed through with their end of the bargain as it related to them leaving the conference.


If UND decides it isn’t rock solid with the agreement it signed Monday, which doesn’t require the school to be a Big Sky member for a minimum number of years, Fullerton said there could be a financial penalty. But only if UND goes about it “the wrong way.”

Fullerton didn’t explain what that way would be, but said if North Dakota was up front about all its dealings before an exit from the conference there would be no buyout fee.

If the school chose to seek a new conference home behind the Big Sky’s back, Fullerton said, it would be charged a buyout fee of $1 million.

[Thumper 76]

Some creative liberties taken with this comment.

Yes, UND faced some budget issues, but it had a lot more to do with offering too many sports (and the black hole known as women's ice hockey) plus the huge cuts in the state's budget than it did with travel expenses. The conversations involving UND to the Summit/MVFC were ongoing well before any budget stuff came up and there was no mandate, official or unofficial, from the Big Sky to find another conference. No argument that decreased travel expenses won't be an added benefit and was a consideration when the change was made, but there was a lot more to it than that.

SDSU sponsors 19 sports to UND’s 17, you’re sure travel had nothing to do with it?

[abc123]

SDSU sponsors 19 sports to UND’s 17, you’re sure travel had nothing to do with it?

I didn't say travel had nothing to do with it, I said that it wasn't the main reason UND was facing budget issues. The state slashing the higher ed budget by 25% or more had a lot bigger effect than the $200-300K the athletic department saved in travel costs with the move. The travel savings are about 10% of what UND will save annually from cutting women's hockey.

[Thumper 76]

I didn't say travel had nothing to do with it, I said that it wasn't the main reason UND was facing budget issues. The state slashing 1/3 of the higher ed budget had a lot bigger effect than the something like $200K the athletic department will save in travel costs.

How are they only saving $200k across all sports when the majority of the conference is closer than the closest Big Sky school was to Grand Forks? Unless I’m mistaken on the closest Big Sky school.

[abc123]

How are they only saving $200k across all sports when the majority of the conference is closer than the closest Big Sky school was to Grand Forks? Unless I’m mistaken on the closest Big Sky school.

I edited it to show a range, but the overall savings projected out to be a lot less than what most people expected. Also not positive if that total included football joining the MVFC, which will take out 1-2 flights per year and replace with bus trips. Guess we'll know in about 6 months when the updated financials come out.

I suppose if you think about it, you're really only adding between 1-4 bus trips for conference games for Olympic sports (USD/SDSU/NDSU and maybe Omaha?) but those were also previously OOC games that are now being replaced with OOC games that require flights, so the net difference isn't a huge change.

[nodak651]

SDSU sponsors 19 sports to UND’s 17, you’re sure travel had nothing to do with it?

I think the opportunity to play regional rivals in all sports had to be one of the biggest factors, along with playing conference games where we recruit. The football schedule will be a hell of a lot more interesting than it has been, and games against USD,SDSU, and NDSU in football will also help to create hype, increase attendance, and ticket sales. I think travel was definitely a consideration, but along with cost, the practice of having student athletes on the road for such long stretches of time also must have been a factor. And the Summit/MVFC had to also have been UND's first choice as a conference all along, especially after USD bailed. He had to have been lying if he said otherwise.

Edit: With the huge cuts UND had as a result of the state budget changing, I think UND went with the "all of the above" method, by cutting costs in all ways possible, to completely restructure the athletic department to help better position UND for the future.

[nodak651]

How are they only saving $200k across all sports when the majority of the conference is closer than the closest Big Sky school was to Grand Forks? Unless I’m mistaken on the closest Big Sky school.

I edited it to show a range, but the overall savings projected out to be a lot less than what most people expected. Also not positive if that total included football joining the MVFC, which will take out 1-2 flights per year and replace with bus trips. Guess we'll know in about 6 months when the updated financials come out.

I suppose if you think about it, you're really only adding between 1-4 bus trips for conference games for Olympic sports (USD/SDSU/NDSU and maybe Omaha?) but those were also previously OOC games that are now being replaced with OOC games that require flights, so the net difference isn't a huge change.

The 2017 financials still included part of a W hockey season, and mens/womens swimming and diving. To compare the sports in the Summit league, if you subtract travel for football, hockey, whockey, and m/w swimming/diving from the 2017 budget, and football and mens hockey from the 2018 budget, the travel budget actually increased instead of decreased.

2017 $3,152,312 total travel -football 586908 -whockey 225523 - mswim/dive 87226 -wswim/dive 112833 -mhockey 682620 = $1,457,202
2018 $2,871,723 total travel -football 552885 -mhockey 649,644 = $1,669,194

In 2018, UND's travel budget actually increased by $211,992 in Summit sponsored sports. I may or may not have made a math error.

Maybe UND is taking any potential savings in the travel budget, and using it to improve the quality of hotels/mode of transportation. No clue why it increased.

[SDFS]

My one comment on UND and the Big Sky: You don't waive the exit fee for a program that you value and want to see stay in your conference. The Big Sky waived the exit fee for UND.

This had more to do with USD and UND being a package deal for the Big Sky. Then USD backed out at the last minute. Even then, the Big Sky looked at the obvious (UND beings with the other Dakota schools) and understood a change was inevitable. They noted this at that time, if UND was up front and handled it appropriately, there would be no exit fee. And when the Summit League had an opening a change was made to get UND into the conference for both Summit League and MVFC.