Greatest team in FCS history

[JacksFan40]

Not sure if there's another forum anywhere so....
Who would you say had the single best season in FCS history? That 2013 NDSU team would be my pick.

[DFW HOYA]

Marshall, 1996

[KPSUL]

Not sure if there's another forum anywhere so....
Who would you say had the single best season in FCS history? That 2013 NDSU team would be my pick.

I agree, there may have been a couple teams as dominant in the 1AA era, but not since FCS was created.

[ASU33]

Marshall 1996

[PaladinFan]

Marshall

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

There's one thing that separates 1996 Marshall from 2013 NDSU...NDSU did not play any team close to the 1996 Montana team that whipped an Oregon State team and won its playoff games 48-3, 44-14, and 70-7. If that Marshall team doesn't exist than that Montana team is probably considered one of the all-time greats.

[PAllen]

Holy Cross had some amazingly great teams in the 80s, but they never got to play in the playoffs, so no championships. Lehigh had at least one that was a close second to HC, but second in the conference means you're not number one in the nation. EKU, YSU, Marshall, Georgia Southern, Fruman, and App St. had some great ones. NDSU has clearly been the most dominant recently.

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross 1987.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Marshall 1996

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

1. 1996 Marshall. Defeated a very good Griz team that might not be appreciated as much as they should be. Had the guy who is possibly the second-best receiver to ever play the game who could take over games and a running back and QB who would also play in the NFL.

2. 2007 App State. A lot of people will criticize this team for their defense, but that SoCon that year had a ridiculous amount of fire power between Jayson Foster, Scott Riddle and Terrell Hudgins, Jerome Felton, Duran Lawson and Andre Roberts, and a solid Wofford team. The team itself had ample fire power to make up for it, though.

3. 2013 NDSU. Beat a 7-5 Kansas State team and didn't break a sweat in the playoffs. My main knock on the team is a question of the strength of the playoff field (how many years would that Towson and UNH team make it to the national championship game and semifinals?)

4. 1999 Georgia Southern. Call me a homer if you want, but this team had a ridiculous offense. Scored 41 points and 500+ yards on a top 25 IA defense. Averaged 49 points back when far fewer teams broke 30 points a game. Scored 59 points and had 600+ total yards on a Jim Tressel team. It had a ton of garbage time, too. When Greg Hill and Adrian Peterson were both 100% there weren't many college football teams at any level that could stop this team.

5. 2003 Delaware. Great on both sides of the ball and dominant. My knock on them is the questionable strength of the playoff field (one of the semi-finalists lost to Valdosta State, another one was a Patriot League team).

[POD Knows]

Bison, every year they won the Natty, how you going to prove otherwise. Close the thread

[Wildcat1997]

'96 Marshall.

[PaladinFan]

2. 2007 App State. A lot of people will criticize this team for their defense, but that SoCon that year had a ridiculous amount of fire power between Jayson Foster, Scott Riddle and Terrell Hudgins, Jerome Felton, Duran Lawson and Andre Roberts, and a solid Wofford team. The team itself had ample fire power to make up for it, though.


Armanti Edwards was still about as impressive a player as I have ever seen in college football.

What gets lost, I think, is how unbelievably strong he was. Even at 6'0 180 he would run through tackles and throw defenders off of him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9RZt-Y2F9Q

[ElCid]

Marshall. Their average margin of victory in 1996 was something like 30 points a game on average. And they had some really good opponents. And while it has been a while, I don't think they broke a sweat with any of them.

[cx500d]

There's one thing that separates 1996 Marshall from 2013 NDSU...NDSU did not play any team close to the 1996 Montana team that whipped an Oregon State team and won its playoff games 48-3, 44-14, and 70-7. If that Marshall team doesn't exist than that Montana team is probably considered one of the all-time greats.

A 2-8 Oregon state team, of which one of the two wins was against northern Illinois?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

A 2-8 Oregon state team, of which one of the two wins was against northern Illinois?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYep, weak sauce, the 2013 Bison team would have kicked their asses 70-0, there, here is a meaningless opinion in an argument that will never be solved because these teams can't play each other, I would take the Bison all day long against any of these teams in a championship game.

[Grizalltheway]

A 2-8 Oregon state team, of which one of the two wins was against northern Illinois?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I mean, you guys used to brag about beating the goophers and Central Michigan...xcoffeex

[cx500d]

I mean, you guys used to brag about beating the goophers and Central Michigan...xcoffeex
I think everybody acknowledges the goofers suck. That’s just one state poking the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

I mean, you guys used to brag about beating the goophers and Central Michigan...xcoffeexYea and we beat the defending Big 12 champion in 2013, that NDSU team was the best team in FCS history. The Gophers would have probably kicked that Oregon State team that was used as an example to prop up Marshall. That Marshall team was freaking good, but I would still take the Bison on a neutral field.

[SDFS]

Please stop the nonsense -
Chad to Moss all day...

[BisonFan02]

2013 Bison....../thread

The only argument I will hear is that they were kinda gassed and alot of those seniors were pretty banged up. Otherwise, they coasted....even with their best QB (Wentz) still riding pine. xlolx

[Redbird 4th & short]

So lets put Massey to the test ...

2013 NDSU .. went 15-0 with average margin of 27.4 pts, against 91st ranked schedule in D-I; beat #22 Kansas St by 3 on road; margins in 4 playoff games: 31, 34, 38, 28 for avg of 33. Massey ranked them #13 in all of D-I.

https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5545&s=199231

1996 Marshall .. went 15-0 with avg magin of 29.9 against 119th ranked schedule in D-I; didn't play an FBS, but played a D-II; margins in playoffs: 45, 54, 17, 20 for avg of 34. Massey ranked them #23 in all of D-I.

https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=4436&s=41841

2013 NDSU wins according to Massey !!

So how about against 2017 NDSU ???

2017 NDSU

https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5545&s=295489

2017 NDSU lost to SDSU but still tied in Massey ranking at #23 ... that tie breaker goes to 1996 Marshall team for going 15-0 against slightly tougher schedule and much larger margin.


That and 2 bucks will still get you a coffee at starbucks !!

I would add 2016 JMU to the top 5 discussion for sure. Explosive and balanced on offense, stout and very opportunistic turnover-machine defense, and a mind bogglingly good punt return unit. Massey had then ranked #28 against 133rd ranked SOS that year.

https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3611&s=286577

[PAllen]

You NDSU boys need to be around a little more than 15 years before you start talking about all time history. You sound like a bunch of teenagers talking about how something has been going on for "a long time" meaning like for like a year or more.

[POD Knows]

You NDSU boys need to be around a little more than 15 years before you start talking about all time history. You sound like a bunch of teenagers talking about how something has been going on for "a long time" meaning like for like a year or more.Ah baloney, can you imagine how bad the 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers would get beat by the current Super Bowl champs, this "nostalgia" for these old great teams is just that, nostalgia. Players are bigger and faster now, but we will never know. The stats presented about show that the 2013 Bison team was just as dominant in the division as was Marshall.

[NoVABison]

Please stop the nonsense -
Chad to Moss all day...


Nonsense is Pennington throwing to Randy Moss in 1996... the Marshall QB that year guiding them to the championship was Eric Kresser.

2013 Bison were a complete team, they didn't rely on a freakishly great athlete like Randy Moss to get the title

[Bisonoline]

I mean, you guys used to brag about beating the goophers and Central Michigan...xcoffeex

Central Meatchicken was the MAC champions and the Bison seal clubbed them.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

You NDSU boys need to be around a little more than 15 years before you start talking about all time history. You sound like a bunch of teenagers talking about how something has been going on for "a long time" meaning like for like a year or more.



All 6 Bison title teams would kick Marshall's ass.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Nonsense is Pennington throwing to Randy Moss in 1996... the Marshall QB that year guiding them to the championship was Eric Kresser.

2013 Bison were a complete team, they didn't rely on a freakishly great athlete like Randy Moss to get the title


This here plus the Bison OLs would pound that Herd defense into the ground.

Bison envy all over this thread.....period!

[Herder]

You NDSU boys need to be around a little more than 15 years before you start talking about all time history. You sound like a bunch of teenagers talking about how something has been going on for "a long time" meaning like for like a year or more.

Let me see? Which of the 6 NDSU championship teams between 1983-1990 do I want to put up for the top 10? I’ll take the 1990 undefeated team.

Need to be around for awhile? What an idiot!

[McNeese75]

Marshall

[cx500d]

Let me see? Which of the 6 NDSU championship teams between 1983-1990 do I want to put up for the top 10? I’ll take the 1990 undefeated team.

Need to be around for awhile? What an idiot!


I graduated in 1987, so I didn't see the undefeated teams of 1988 and 1990 with Chris Simdorn other than watching some old games on youtube. I saw the undefeated 1986 team with Jeff Bentrim and the 1983 and 1985 championship teams. They were all pretty good. In that stretch I remember beating a Div 1-AA Northern Iowa team, but we didn't tend to play anybody out of division other then that game from what I remember.

[Sader87]

The Holy Cross team from 1987 was dominant. I'm not saying they were the best FCS team evah, but they definitely belong in the discussion.

Different HC program back then...pre Patriot League basically (in terms of recruiting etc)....not a single game was in doubt that season after halftime...unfortunately denied to appear in the 1-AA playoffs via PL rules. Lockbaum finished 3rd in the Heisman voting.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Ah baloney, can you imagine how bad the 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers would get beat by the current Super Bowl champs, this "nostalgia" for these old great teams is just that, nostalgia. Players are bigger and faster now, but we will never know. The stats presented about show that the 2013 Bison team was just as dominant in the division as was Marshall.
I fully agree, there is no comparing overall athleticism, strength and conditioning of todays player compared to 1996 ... exercise science has exploded in last 20 years. This is true in most sports, but particularly in football. But I think this debate ought to adjust for this and assume the judgement is relative to their time. So if the 2013 NDSU team played the actual 1996 Marshall team, NDSU would win by 2-3 touchdowns. But if 1996 Marshall roster had the benefit of todays training standards and equipment, it would more likely be a very close game. Think about the trenches alone .. OL and DL are much bigger and better athletes now than 20 years ago.

[PAllen]

Let me see? Which of the 6 NDSU championship teams between 1983-1990 do I want to put up for the top 10? I’ll take the 1990 undefeated team.

Need to be around for awhile? What an idiot!

Try reading the title of the thread before calling someone an idiot. Also, learn to take a joke, you are way too spun up about this.

[PAllen]

I fully agree, there is no comparing overall athleticism, strength and conditioning of todays player compared to 1996 ... exercise science has exploded in last 20 years. This is true in most sports, but particularly in football. But I think this debate ought to adjust for this and assume the judgement is relative to their time. So if the 2013 NDSU team played the actual 1996 Marshall team, NDSU would win by 2-3 touchdowns. But if 1996 Marshall roster had the benefit of todays training standards and equipment, it would more likely be a very close game. Think about the trenches alone .. OL and DL are much bigger and better athletes now than 20 years ago.

So, JMU is the best ever.

[Herder]

Try reading the title of the thread before calling someone an idiot. Also, learn to take a joke, you are way too spun up about this.

My comment was tongue in cheek also, But I apologize for the Idiot comment. NDSU was considered one of the historically top teams in DII when they left the ranks in the early 2000’s, so been playing football for a long time.

[BisonTru]

I'd a liked to see Randy Moss vs. Marcus Williams..... in the run game. A WR that refused to block and a corner that refused to tackle.

[PaladinFan]

I'd a liked to see Randy Moss vs. Marcus Williams..... in the run game. A WR that refused to block and a corner that refused to tackle.

Not sure Moss had to be a particularly skilled blocker. At 6'4 215ish, you can pretty well be successful just by getting in the way.

[POD Knows]

I fully agree, there is no comparing overall athleticism, strength and conditioning of todays player compared to 1996 ... exercise science has exploded in last 20 years. This is true in most sports, but particularly in football. But I think this debate ought to adjust for this and assume the judgement is relative to their time. So if the 2013 NDSU team played the actual 1996 Marshall team, NDSU would win by 2-3 touchdowns. But if 1996 Marshall roster had the benefit of todays training standards and equipment, it would more likely be a very close game. Think about the trenches alone .. OL and DL are much bigger and better athletes now than 20 years ago.Yea, I agree with this and my comments on this thread aren't to discount Marshall at all. I think that team and the 2013 NDSU team were the two best teams of all time in FCS. But I will take the Bison, which is a meaningless homer vote

[OhioHen]

5. 2003 Delaware. Great on both sides of the ball and dominant. My knock on them is the questionable strength of the playoff field (one of the semi-finalists lost to Valdosta State, another one was a Patriot League team).

Still the ONLY Championship game shutout and still the largest margin of victory in a Championship game. Say what you will about the field of teams - ON THE FIELD, no other team has topped this performance.

[MR. CHICKEN]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27296&stc=1......AN'.......OWN-LAH......CHAMPIONSHIP GAME......SHUT-OUT.......40-0........................BRAWK!

[POD Knows]

......AN'.......OWN-LAH......CHAMPIONSHIP GAME......SHUT-OUT.......40-0........................BRAWK!I am sure the 7 points that NDSU gave up against Towson is the deciding factor in which team is/was better.

[MR. CHICKEN]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27297&stc=1......WOW.....OWN-LAH GAVE UP 7...........HMMMMM........SEVEN IS TA ZERO............AS....xconfusedx............AWK!

[TennBison]

The Holy Cross team from 1987 was dominant. I'm not saying they were the best FCS team evah, but they definitely belong in the discussion.

Different HC program back then...pre Patriot League basically (in terms of recruiting etc)....not a single game was in doubt that season after halftime...unfortunately denied to appear in the 1-AA playoffs via PL rules. Lockbaum finished 3rd in the Heisman voting.
No they don't belong in the discussion, the name of the thread is "Greatest team in FCS history". And you just stated in your own opinion that they are not the greatest, but then say they deserve to be in the discussion. So tell us what is your greatest team and not the one who isn't. No participation trophy because they might have come close.
2013 Bison all the way.

[TennBison]

Try reading the title of the thread before calling someone an idiot. Also, learn to take a joke, you are way too spun up about this.
Maybe you should learn to take your own advice. He is joking around and being sarcastic.

[Bisonator]

1a: 2013 NDSU
1b: 1996 Marshall

IMO defense wins so I'd give the edge to that 2013 Bison team. Marshall might have been good too but that NDSU defense was great. Also Marshall got to play the championship at home.........I know Frisco is Fargo South but it's not the FargoDome.

[PaladinFan]

1a: 2013 NDSU
1b: 1996 Marshall

IMO defense wins so I'd give the edge to that 2013 Bison team. Marshall might have been good too but that NDSU defense was great. Also Marshall got to play the championship at home.........I know Frisco is Fargo South but it's not the FargoDome.

Coming from the team that hasn't had a true road playoff game since . . . .

Also, "defense wins championships" is largely a myth. http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/20/does-defense-really-win-championships/

[Bisonator]

Coming from the team that hasn't had a true road playoff game since . . . .

Also, "defense wins championships" is largely a myth. http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/20/does-defense-really-win-championships/
How many road PO games did the 1996 Marshall team win again?

And apparently you missed the IMO part......;)

[PaladinFan]

How many road PO games did the 1996 Marshall team win again?

And apparently you missed the IMO part......;)

Let's just say that watching the 1996 Marshall offense face the 2014 Herd defense would be worth the admission.

Moss is still the x-factor. Not sure anyone on any defense keeps that man from grabbing two touchdowns a game.

[POD Knows]

Let's just say that watching the 1996 Marshall offense face the 2014 Herd defense would be worth the admission.

Moss is still the x-factor. Not sure anyone on any defense keeps that man from grabbing two touchdowns a game.NDSU 17 Marshall 14

[PaladinFan]

NDSU 17 Marshall 14

Granted, this is silliness, but only 2 of 15 teams held Marshall under 30 (App State/GSU). No one held them under 20. In 15 games, they hit 40+ points 10 times (50+ points 5 times). They were as dominant an offense as we've probably seen at this level.

Defensively, they were nearly as good. Only 4 teams managed 17 points against them. All four of those games were mop up/blow outs (i.e., the points were scored against the backups).

They beat Montana like a drum in the national championship. That Montana team was undefeated and had won 27 of their last 29 contests coming into that game.

[grayghost06]

Two things that should eliminate Marshall from the discussion:

1) Mops for Props- High paying/no show jobs for their Prop 48 players by a prominent booster. Dirty dirty program at that time. Just wrong on several levels. NCAA sanctions followed.

2) The ability to stockpile transfers who could play immediately. They were able to get kids who began their career at a I-A, transferred to Marshall to play immediately at the I-AA level and then were back playing I-A ball in 1997. They could dangle the immediate playing time AND the I-A label to these kids. No other school could offer that. That is the reason for the "Marshall Rule", which prohibits a transitioning schools from being eligible for the playoffs. And don't even get me started on how they magically went from a supposed 63 scholarship limit in 1996 to 85 schollies the following year.

[Professor Chaos]

It's really hard to compare teams from different decades with each other. Different playing styles, different philosophies, different rules even.

It would be a more intelligent debate to discuss who was the best team of the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, etc.

I still say a completely healthy 2017 NDSU would've given a completely healthy 2013 NDSU a run for their money.

2016 JMU definitely has to be up there as well for best teams of this decade.

[WeAreThePride]

It's really hard to compare teams from different decades with each other. Different playing styles, different philosophies, different rules even.

It would be a more intelligent debate to discuss who was the best team of the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, etc.

I still say a completely healthy 2017 NDSU would've given a completely healthy 2013 NDSU a run for their money.

2016 JMU definitely has to be up there as well for best teams of this decade.
The '16 JMU squad was terrifying. Savage speed on defense, and that Abdullah guy was a freak. '16 NDSU was our worst team since '09, and we still made the semis. I was just a baby in '96, so I can't comment on those Marshall and Montana teams. All I know is the stats.

'13 NDSU probably has the most impressive resume of any FCS team, whether or not they could have beaten the other great teams on the field.

[Sader87]

No they don't belong in the discussion, the name of the thread is "Greatest team in FCS history". And you just stated in your own opinion that they are not the greatest, but then say they deserve to be in the discussion. So tell us what is your greatest team and not the one who isn't. No participation trophy because they might have come close.
2013 Bison all the way.

The '87 HC team was every bit as dominant as the '96 Marshall or '13 NDSU squads vis a vis their respective years at the FCS level.

Many here aren't old enough or are looking at HC through a 2018 lens....believe me, it was a much different program then.

[MR. CHICKEN]

The '87 HC team was every bit as dominant as the '96 Marshall or '13 NDSU squads vis a vis their respective years at the FCS level.

Many here aren't old enough or are looking at HC through a 2018 lens....believe me, it was a much different program then.

....HOLY COW.....WAS 11-0....IN 1987......BUT WERE NOT IN I-AA PLAYOFFS.......WERE YOU 1-A BACK THEN....xconfusedx........AWK!

[World]

The answer is very simple

Its one of the teams from the University that has won the most College National Championships in football

Pick a year, any year

https://www.foxsports.com/southwest/gallery/which-college-football-program-owns-the-most-national-championships-071417

[DFW HOYA]

The '87 HC team was every bit as dominant as the '96 Marshall or '13 NDSU squads vis a vis their respective years at the FCS level.

This is the result of a decidedly regional schedule. HC did not play a single 1987 opponent west of Lehigh and only one south of Philadelphia (W&M).

[TennBison]

Coming from the team that hasn't had a true road playoff game since . . . .

Also, "defense wins championships" is largely a myth. http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/20/does-defense-really-win-championships/
Largely a myth? Except for 6 of the last 7 years.

[TennBison]

The answer is very simple

Its one of the teams from the University that has won the most College National Championships in football

Pick a year, any year

https://www.foxsports.com/southwest/gallery/which-college-football-program-owns-the-most-national-championships-071417
Must only be counting FBS level championships even though a handful of those teams are now FCS level.

[Mattymc727]

This thread might as well be "What team are you a fan of"

[Grizalltheway]

This thread might as well be "What team are you a fan of"
Welcome to AGS, enjoy your stay.

[NY Crusader 2010]

1. NDSU 2013
2. Marshall 1996
3. Holy Cross 1987
4. Georgia Southern 1999

[NY Crusader 2010]

The '87 HC team was every bit as dominant as the '96 Marshall or '13 NDSU squads vis a vis their respective years at the FCS level.

Many here aren't old enough or are looking at HC through a 2018 lens....believe me, it was a much different program then.

HC '87 was obviously an incredible team. Impossible to put them #1 in my opinion. Had they either participated in and won handily the I-AA tournament that year or played and defeated BC to end the season, you could make the argument.

[BisonBacker]

The answer is very simple

Its one of the teams from the University that has won the most College National Championships in football

Pick a year, any year

https://www.foxsports.com/southwest/gallery/which-college-football-program-owns-the-most-national-championships-071417

xlolx Lets talk within at least the last 50 years please xlolx

[PAllen]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27296&stc=1......AN'.......OWN-LAH......CHAMPIONSHIP GAME......SHUT-OUT.......40-0........................BRAWK!

More than half of the Colgate team having the flu might have helped that scoreline a little.

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....POPPYCOCK!!.......FIRST TIME AH'VE HEARD DAT EXCUSE.......GOT A LINK...xconfusedx.....AWK!

...NO MENTION UH FLU....IN NY TIMES ARTICLE.....xsighx....BRAWK!


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/20/sports/college-football-colgate-s-bid-for-perfection-hits-wall.html

[Go...gate]

The '87 HC team was every bit as dominant as the '96 Marshall or '13 NDSU squads vis a vis their respective years at the FCS level.

Many here aren't old enough or are looking at HC through a 2018 lens....believe me, it was a much different program then.

It was, indeed. The '87 club was one for the ages and can take their place with any of these other clubs.

[Go...gate]

1. 1996 Marshall. Defeated a very good Griz team that might not be appreciated as much as they should be. Had the guy who is possibly the second-best receiver to ever play the game who could take over games and a running back and QB who would also play in the NFL.

2. 2007 App State. A lot of people will criticize this team for their defense, but that SoCon that year had a ridiculous amount of fire power between Jayson Foster, Scott Riddle and Terrell Hudgins, Jerome Felton, Duran Lawson and Andre Roberts, and a solid Wofford team. The team itself had ample fire power to make up for it, though.

3. 2013 NDSU. Beat a 7-5 Kansas State team and didn't break a sweat in the playoffs. My main knock on the team is a question of the strength of the playoff field (how many years would that Towson and UNH team make it to the national championship game and semifinals?)

4. 1999 Georgia Southern. Call me a homer if you want, but this team had a ridiculous offense. Scored 41 points and 500+ yards on a top 25 IA defense. Averaged 49 points back when far fewer teams broke 30 points a game. Scored 59 points and had 600+ total yards on a Jim Tressel team. It had a ton of garbage time, too. When Greg Hill and Adrian Peterson were both 100% there weren't many college football teams at any level that could stop this team.

5. 2003 Delaware. Great on both sides of the ball and dominant. My knock on them is the questionable strength of the playoff field (one of the semi-finalists lost to Valdosta State, another one was a Patriot League team).

A Patriot League team that was 15-0 going into the title game and had beaten some awfully good clubs. That was a really good UD club that hammered us.

[Go...gate]

Two things that should eliminate Marshall from the discussion:

1) Mops for Props- High paying/no show jobs for their Prop 48 players by a prominent booster. Dirty dirty program at that time. Just wrong on several levels. NCAA sanctions followed.

2) The ability to stockpile transfers who could play immediately. They were able to get kids who began their career at a I-A, transferred to Marshall to play immediately at the I-AA level and then were back playing I-A ball in 1997. They could dangle the immediate playing time AND the I-A label to these kids. No other school could offer that. That is the reason for the "Marshall Rule", which prohibits a transitioning schools from being eligible for the playoffs. And don't even get me started on how they magically went from a supposed 63 scholarship limit in 1996 to 85 schollies the following year.

Yes. Glad someone mentioned this.

[Go...gate]

More than half of the Colgate team having the flu might have helped that scoreline a little.

No. UD was THAT good. They kicked our butts.

[Go...gate]

.....POPPYCOCK!!.......FIRST TIME AH'VE HEARD DAT EXCUSE.......GOT A LINK...xconfusedx.....AWK!

...NO MENTION UH FLU....IN NY TIMES ARTICLE.....xsighx....BRAWK!

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/20/sports/college-football-colgate-s-bid-for-perfection-hits-wall.html


I responded to this above. The flu claim is as ignorant as someone's post above that having a 15-0 Patriot League team in the Final Four made it a weak field. UD had an outstanding club - and they defeated a great club.

[PAllen]

No. UD was THAT good. They kicked our butts.

Oh Colgate wasn't going to win that game, but they probably would have scored some points.

[grayghost06]

My thoughts are you could pick several squads of each of these teams for claim of best of decade. Too tough to compare across multiple decades. If I had to, probably give slight nod to YSU over HC for the 1st two decades and NDSU over Appy for the last two decades.
80s : Holy Cross
90s: Youngstown
00s: Appy
10s: NDSU

[grayghost06]

'83 (late season injuries), 84 team (late season announcement about skipping playoffs- thank you Father Brooks) and '86 team were a handful too.

[Go...gate]

'83 (late season injuries), 84 team (late season announcement about skipping playoffs- thank you Father Brooks) and '86 team were a handful too.

Very true, and 1982 was also a splendid team. The late Rick Carter was getting the pieces in place.

[Little Stevie]

Holy Cross had some really good teams in 80's.
But,I do not think they one any playoff games? Some years did not make them?

[OL FU]

Two things that should eliminate Marshall from the discussion:

1) Mops for Props- High paying/no show jobs for their Prop 48 players by a prominent booster. Dirty dirty program at that time. Just wrong on several levels. NCAA sanctions followed.

2) The ability to stockpile transfers who could play immediately. They were able to get kids who began their career at a I-A, transferred to Marshall to play immediately at the I-AA level and then were back playing I-A ball in 1997. They could dangle the immediate playing time AND the I-A label to these kids. No other school could offer that. That is the reason for the "Marshall Rule", which prohibits a transitioning schools from being eligible for the playoffs. And don't even get me started on how they magically went from a supposed 63 scholarship limit in 1996 to 85 schollies the following year.

you said this very well and I totally agree.

If they made a movie about the 90s Marshall football program the title would be "We Are Cheaters":(

[Sader87]

Holy Cross had some really good teams in 80's.
But,I do not think they one any playoff games? Some years did not make them?

School chose to play BC late in the season in lieu of the playoffs a couple years. From 1986 on, the PL rule was no playoff participation then.

The only year we participated then was 1983 when a pretty banged-up HC lost a tough one to Western Carolina at a very cold Fitton 28-21.

[RichH2]

Marshall 1996.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Please stop the nonsense -
Chad to Moss all day...

It wasn't Chad to Moss. Chad was on the bench. Eric Kresser to Moss.

Nothing NDSU could have done to stop that though. I agree with you.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Nonsense is Pennington throwing to Randy Moss in 1996... the Marshall QB that year guiding them to the championship was Eric Kresser.

2013 Bison were a complete team, they didn't rely on a freakishly great athlete like Randy Moss to get the title

Should have went on before posting again. xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yep, weak sauce, the 2013 Bison team would have kicked their asses 70-0, there, here is a meaningless opinion in an argument that will never be solved because these teams can't play each other, I would take the Bison all day long against any of these teams in a championship game.

I watched both teams with great interest. 96 Marshall would have more trouble with 2013 than any other team in FCS era but the Bison would not have won that game I don't think. As you say though, no way to know. Just know what I saw a team and speculate on that.

Both teams utterly dominated all others they faced that year and it can only be looked at comparatively in that fashion. If they were to be able to play then both teams would have to be looked at in the fashion that both came from the same set of standards and era so training advances etc. don't enter into it....in the way I compare them in my head anyway.

I mean we could look at like this too. Let's say the 2013 Bison were to go back and play the 1996 teams, any of them. The Bison get their asses kicked 70-0 or worse at least. Any of those 1996 teams would have lookd foolish beating up 2 & 3 year olds like that as it is.

[WeAreThePride]

School chose to play BC late in the season in lieu of the playoffs a couple years. From 1986 on, the PL rule was no playoff participation then.

The only year we participated then was 1983 when a pretty banged-up HC lost a tough one to Western Carolina at a very cold Fitton 28-21.
BC as in Boston College?

[KPSUL]

BC as in Boston College?

Yes. Sorry to answer for Sader87, but I went to a Boston area Catholic HS, so I have zero doubt about that answer.

[WeAreThePride]

Yes. Sorry to answer for Sader87, but I went to a Boston area Catholic HS, so I have zero doubt about that answer.
Gotcha. I was just confused as BC is FBS.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross and BC played the last game of the season (mostly) from 1896-1986...great rivalry at one point....we sadly chose to opt out of the "entertainment business" (inside joke) and joined/formed the PL.....playing BC for the first time since 1986 this Septembah.

[ST_Lawson]

Gotcha. I was just confused as BC is FBS.

You were closer than me. The first thing I think of when I hear BC is British Columbia...so I was REALLY confused for a minute there.

[Ivytalk]

As an Eagles homer, I vote for the last Carson Wentz NDSU Team.

[Schism55]

1. NDSU 2013
2. Marshall 1996
3. Holy Cross 1987
4. Georgia Southern 1999
I'll take Gordie Lockbaum on ANY team of mine. On the very short list for best FCS player ever.

[Little Stevie]

Holy Cross used to have real studs and good teams and shame what has happened since 80's.
But,two of their more talented teams 83-84,playing tougher schedules could not make or win a game in playoffs!!
NE FB was a lot different then (better,for the most part). Late 80's,early 90's teams might be great in terms of HC or PL history-but in 1AA/FCS history-no way. The most successful team in PL history is Lehigh and and they are not even in this conversation anywhere. Get in playoffs and win some games.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Holy Cross used to have real studs and good teams and shame what has happened since 80's.
But,two of their more talented teams 83-84,playing tougher schedules could not make or win a game in playoffs!!
NE FB was a lot different then (better,for the most part). Late 80's,early 90's teams might be great in terms of HC or PL history-but in 1AA/FCS history-no way. The most successful team in PL history is Lehigh and and they are not even in this conversation anywhere. Get in playoffs and win some games.

The first and only team that Holy Cross hosted a I-AA/FCS playoff game was in 1983. After earning a first-round bye (round of 12 back then), we lost to Western Carolina in the quarterfinals. WCU went on to lose to Southern Illinois for the national championship that year.

To take a look at the '87 team from a closer lens, we opened the season with a 34-24 win against Army (according to alum, this game was basically over by half). This Army team was 5-6 and nothing to write home about with a 1-2 record in the Colonial/Patriot -- also lost to Colgate and beat Lafayette in a close game. We beat the #1 and #2 Ivy League tams Harvard and Brown -- 41-6 & 41-0 respectively. I do believe, however, the Ivy League was not as strong then as it is now. We beat the #2 & #3 teams in the Colonial (Patriot) League Lehigh & Colgate -- 63-6 and 49-7 respectively. UMass was a Yankee bottom-feeder that year --we beat them 54-10 in Amherst. The two I-AA independents on the schedule, William & Mary (5-6 with a win over Navy) and Villanova (6-4-1) were both OK but again nothing special -- we beat The Tribe 40-7 and 'Nova 39-6 in the nationally broadcast season finale.

This season's performance was enough for the writers to rank us #1 in I-AA even after the conclusion of the playoffs. Obviously, this ranking was more a result of the margins of victory as we did not beat anyone overly impressive that season. The top teams in I-AA that year were mostly down south -- national champ Northeast Louisiana (now ULM), runner-up Marshall, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Northern Iowa, Eastern Kentucky, Arkansas State and Weber State. Looking at this field, MAYBE I'm wrong, but I definitely don't think it would have been a forgone conclusion that HC would have won the whole thing that year.

For purposes of the BEST TEAM EVER conversation, I think it's impossible for HC '87 to stake this claim without either a national championship (too bad for Colonial postseason ban) or a win against Boston College. With either of those two accomplishments, the top all time ranking could well have been merited.

[Little Stevie]

NYV-Yes,HC had high powered team in 87-88. To your point-schedule was suspect. HC was like a mini BC in FB and hoops (70's) at one point.
Perfect example of how an admin. can kill programs. BC has never had a all time great FB team either.
I was in NE then. Colgate had really good team the year they lost to UD in title game. Saw them beat FAU in playoffs. Lehigh has had teams advance,but neither are in top 15 of all time great teams. (programs maybe). Been following and played FCS ball since late 70's. Here are some teams:
FAMU 78-81 -won one NC and beat UM along way
NDSU-pick a year
JMU -year they beat NDSU
UD-pick a year
Furman/GSU-pick a year
There are 6 of top 10

[NY Crusader 2010]

NYV-Yes,HC had high powered team in 87-88. To your point-schedule was suspect. HC was like a mini BC in FB and hoops (70's) at one point.
Perfect example of how an admin. can kill programs. BC has never had a all time great FB team either.
I was in NE then. Colgate had really good team the year they lost to UD in title game. Saw them beat FAU in playoffs. Lehigh has had teams advance,but neither are in top 15 of all time great teams. (programs maybe). Been following and played FCS ball since late 70's. Here are some teams:
FAMU 78-81 -won one NC and beat UM along way
NDSU-pick a year
JMU -year they beat NDSU
UD-pick a year
Furman/GSU-pick a year
There are 6 of top 10

Aside from the '86-'88 Holy Cross teams, no Patriot League team would even sniff the jockstrap of being considered top-15 or even top-30 of all time. Colgate 2003 has to be considered the best since 1998 when the PL dropped the postseason ban with numerous Lehigh teams not far behind.

Interesting fact: Had Colgate managed to beat Delaware in 2003, they would have been the only college football team, excluding Ivies from the 19th Century, to finish a season 16-0.

[tigonian02]

Minus the NDSU homers, the consensus seems to be 1996 Marshall.

[POD Knows]

Minus the NDSU homers, the consensus seems to be 1996 Marshall.East coast bias, NDSU rules. Also, jealousy is clouding peoples judgment. The 2013 NDSU team played a tougher schedule, was ranked higher and had stats as good or better than Marshall, Bison rule.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Minus the NDSU homers, the consensus seems to be 1996 Marshall.


Good to be the KING!

[NY Crusader 2010]

Holy Cross had some really good teams in 80's.
But,I do not think they one any playoff games? Some years did not make them?

To further 87's answer to your question, Holy Cross to this date still has not won an FCS/I-AA playoff game. After the 1983 home loss to Western Carolina in the quarters, our only other appearance was a hard-fought 38-28 road loss to seeded eventual national champ Villanova in 2009.

[Little Stevie]

Forgot App. state and Marshall "96 on list.
FAMU.UD,JMU,NDSU,Furman,GSU the others.
These teams really stood out.

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....TOP 10....UH ALL-TIME........xhypedx........BRAWK!!


https://herosports.com/collegefootball/fcs-time-top-10-teams

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Aside from the '86-'88 Holy Cross teams, no Patriot League team would even sniff the jockstrap of being considered top-15 or even top-30 of all time. Colgate 2003 has to be considered the best since 1998 when the PL dropped the postseason ban with numerous Lehigh teams not far behind.

Interesting fact: Had Colgate managed to beat Delaware in 2003, they would have been the only college football team, excluding Ivies from the 19th Century, to finish a season 16-0.

The 1987 team is what sets HC apart from any other PL squad, including Colgate in 2003. Lehigh's run from '98 to '05 is right there with HC's stretch from '83 to '91 imo. A good argument could be made for each school as to which run was better. The only significant difference being the '87 was at a level none of those Lehigh teams were at.

I'm just old enough to remember the "aura" that surrounded the '87 team in the Northeast. That's a legendary squad in 1-AA history. The best or "most dominant" I'm not sure but there's definitely a place in history for them and Lockbaum.

[Go...gate]

.....TOP 10....UH ALL-TIME........xhypedx........BRAWK!!


https://herosports.com/collegefootball/fcs-time-top-10-teams

I believe 2003 UD is properly in there, but 1987 Holy Cross should be in there, too.

[tigonian02]

.....TOP 10....UH ALL-TIME........xhypedx........BRAWK!!


https://herosports.com/collegefootball/fcs-time-top-10-teams

And there you have it

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I believe 2003 UD is properly in there, but 1987 Holy Cross should be in there, too.

They made an error, or at least paint the wrong picture, about Delaware/Flacco in 2003. He was redshirting at Pitt in 2003. Not Delaware.

[Sader87]

The problem in general is that people today view Holy Cross football as it exists now and not what it was like in the 1980s. HC was beating schools like Delaware regularly in the 1980s when they played then.

It was a school divided basically....turned down a Big East offer in basketball in the late 1970s, many efforts by then Washington Redskins owner and HC alumnus Edward Bennett Williams to upgrade the football program were ultimately thwarted by joining the PL in football etc

The school has mostly been in the wilderness in football and basketball since then...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The problem in general is that people today view Holy Cross football as it exists now and not what it was like in the 1980s. HC was beating schools like Delaware regularly in the 1980s when they played then.

It was a school divided basically....turned down a Big East offer in basketball in the late 1970s, many efforts by then Washington Redskins owner and HC alumnus Edward Bennett Williams to upgrade the football program were ultimately thwarted by joining the PL in football etc

The school has mostly been in the wilderness in football and basketball since then...

Lehigh played for the 1-AA National Title in 1980

Lehigh had a much bigger/better rivalry with Delaware than HC. Lehigh was also beating the Hens "regularly" in the 80's prior to joining the PL
1980 Lehigh 27 Delaware 20
1981 Lehigh 24 Delaware 21
1982 Delaware 20 Lehigh 19
1983 Lehigh 24 Delaware 19
1984 Lehigh 46 Delaware 6
1985 Lehigh 16 Delaware 14

Colonial/PL Conference Formed in 1986
'86 Delaware 28-17
'87 Delaware 28-24

The two don't play again until 1993 when the Hens roll Lehigh 62-21. By then the PL had gutted Lehigh football and the rivalry.

Lehigh has at least tried to remain viable the last 20 years in FCS football while Holy Cross hasn't. Outside of that brief 7 year run HC football has been a perennial loser the last 40-50 years. They haven't been nationally relevant in hoops in 60 years. Holy Cross has been mismanaging athletics and fielding poor teams long before they ever joined the PL.

[Sader87]

Nope...HC was in the Top 20 in hoops at various times in the late 1970s....was beating schools like Air Force, Army and BC in the late 1970s in football when Lehigh was playing schools like Bloomsburg State....

And then the dreaded PL....carry on....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Nope...HC was in the Top 20 in hoops at various times in the late 1970s....was beating schools like Air Force, Army and BC in the late 1970s in football when Lehigh was playing schools like Bloomsburg State....carry on

I will carry on.

Lafayette and Fordham hoop's also spent time ranked in the 1970's. The NIT by then had become the clear second class tournament so don't try to prop that nonsense up. HC hoops in the 1970's produced 1, ONE, UNO tournament appearance

Holy Cross NCAA Tournament Appearances (13)
1947 (National Champs), 1948, 1950, 1953, 1956, 1977, 1980, 1993, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2007, 2016

- HC has won 1 NCAA Tournament game since 1953. That was a 58-54 First 4 win over Southern in 2016.
- HC has not finished ranked in the Final AP Poll since 1960

Lehigh football was playing basically the same schools HC was in 1970's. HC had BC, Lehigh Rutgers. The biggest difference is Lehigh football was a success in the 1970's while Holy Cross was not. In fact D2 Lehigh would have beat 1-A Holy Cross several years during the 70's.

Holy Cross Football's record for the 1970's? 37-68-3
Lehigh Football's record for the 1970's? 76-38-1

You're too easy to crush '87....

[Bill]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27334&stc=1

[frozennorth]

As an Eagles homer, I vote for the last Carson Wentz NDSU Team.
I take the 2015 Title Game NDSU team against any FCS team ever. Woulda rolled 2013 NDSU or 1996 Marshall

[frozennorth]

in no particular order:

Holy Cross 1987
GSU 1990
JMU 2016
Marshall 1996
NDSU 2013
NDSU 2017

[dewey]

in no particular order:

Holy Cross 1987
GSU 1990
JMU 2016
Marshall 1996
NDSU 2013
NDSU 2017

The 2015 NDSU is as good as the 2017 team and with Wentz maybe even better.

It sure is nice to have the ability to discuss which recent NDSU team is the best of all time.

Dewey

[POD Knows]

in no particular order:

Holy Cross 1987
GSU 1990
JMU 2016
Marshall 1996
NDSU 2013
NDSU 2017

I take the 2015 Title Game NDSU team against any FCS team ever. Woulda rolled 2013 NDSU or 1996 Marshall

Little confused, you just posted the above information and then you don't include that team in your list, just curious

[DFW HOYA]

in no particular order:
Holy Cross 1987


HC was a very good team but its schedule was largely restricted to the Northeast. Only one Northeastern school (Maine) even qualified for the playoffs that season, along with Yankee Conference champion Richmond. Here are the teams HC played in 1987, with a combined season record of 56-58-2.

Army (5-6)
Lafayette (4-7)
Lehigh (5-5-1)
Colgate (7-4)
Dartmouth (2-8)
Bucknell (4-5-1)
Brown (7-3)
Massachusetts (3-8)
Harvard (8-2)
William & Mary (5-6)
Villanova (6-4)

[Professor Chaos]

The 2015 NDSU is as good as the 2017 team and with Wentz maybe even better.

It sure is nice to have the ability to discuss which recent NDSU team is the best of all time.

Dewey
I don't know.... maybe if you just looked at what each team was by the championship game that might be a possibility but, offensively, the 2017 team was much more efficient. The 2015 team struggled to run the ball early in the year and then didn't really pass it with much efficiency later in the year (obviously due mostly to starting a freshman QB) and the defense really struggled at times as well (got shredded by the Montana pass game and the UNI run game - both of which they got figured out by the playoffs). I thought the 2017 team far more consistently dominant and all around just more efficient.

I'm also of the opinion that the 2017 team was the 2nd best D1 team NDSU has ever fielded and, had it not been for some key injuries and of course the debacle in Brookings, they would've been right there with if not better than the 2013 team.

[Redbird 4th & short]

in no particular order:

Holy Cross 1987
GSU 1990
JMU 2016
Marshall 1996
NDSU 2013
NDSU 2017

I've seen a couple people mention NDSU 2017 .. one with caveat, had they had no key injuries, which to me should not be factored into this discussion.

That said, NDSU 2017 barely beat JMU 2017, and needed 4-5 dropped passes by JMU receivers, or outcome could likely have flipped. And I would further agree with most people that JMU 2017 was not as good as JMU 2016. Not to mention, NDSU 2017 lost to SDSU. So I wouldn't put NDSU 2017 up in that stratosphere ... they had their moments and they did have some key injuries (most teams have some), but certainly not what NDSU 2013 accomplished.

[UNHWildcat18]

I've seen a couple people mention NDSU 2017 .. one with caveat, had they had no key injuries, which to me should not be factored into this discussion.

That said, NDSU 2017 barely beat JMU 2017, and needed 4-5 dropped passes by JMU receivers, or outcome could likely have flipped. And I would further agree with most people that JMU 2017 was not as good as JMU 2016. Not to mention, NDSU 2017 lost to SDSU. So I wouldn't put NDSU 2017 up in that stratosphere ... they had their moments and they did have some key injuries (most teams have some), but certainly not what NDSU 2013 accomplished.

Agreed NDSU 2017 shouldn't be on there

[Professor Chaos]

I've seen a couple people mention NDSU 2017 .. one with caveat, had they had no key injuries, which to me should not be factored into this discussion.

That said, NDSU 2017 barely beat JMU 2017, and needed 4-5 dropped passes by JMU receivers, or outcome could likely have flipped. And I would further agree with most people that JMU 2017 was not as good as JMU 2016. Not to mention, NDSU 2017 lost to SDSU. So I wouldn't put NDSU 2017 up in that stratosphere ... they had their moments and they did have some key injuries (most teams have some), but certainly not what NDSU 2013 accomplished.
I think you'd be surprised by the statistical comparison of 2017 NDSU with 2013 NDSU. I don't necessarily buy that JMU in 2017 was clearly better than JMU in 2016 either. JMU's defense in 2017 was much better than it was in 2016, at least on a consistent basis throughout the year. Missing the beast Khalid Abdullah at RB was a big difference between JMU in 2017 as compared to 2016 but their RB Marshall was shredding teams throughout the 2017 playoffs as well until the title game and Stapleton turned into an All-American WR which was something their 2016 team didn't have. I'd agree you can give the edge to the 2016 JMU team since they won a title but I think the 2017 team was very close.

As for comparing the two NDSU teams people tend to forget that the 2013 NDSU team was on the ropes down 13 in the 4th at home to UNI and ended up scoring two late TDs to win by 1. That UNI team didn't even make the playoffs that year so it's not like NDSU in 2013 was invincible. You could even make the argument that the 2017 team laid a similar stinker but it was just against a tougher team (SDSU) and on the road which resulted in that lone loss. I also don't think you can ding the 2017 team for the close game against JMU. That 2017 JMU team was light years better than the 2013 Towson team (which was basically Terrance West surrounded by a good O-line and average everything else) that NDSU played in the title game that year IMO. And as for the JMU dropped passes I'd argue that NDSU won that game despite an awful performance all around on special teams (i.e. both teams had their struggles in that one).

[Silenoz]

I love how everyone is saying Marshall just to get the Bison panties all twisted


Marshall

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

HC was a very good team but its schedule was largely restricted to the Northeast. Only one Northeastern school (Maine) even qualified for the playoffs that season, along with Yankee Conference champion Richmond. Here are the teams HC played in 1987, with a combined season record of 56-58-2.

Army (5-6)
Lafayette (4-7)
Lehigh (5-5-1)
Colgate (7-4)
Dartmouth (2-8)
Bucknell (4-5-1)
Brown (7-3)
Massachusetts (3-8)
Harvard (8-2)
William & Mary (5-6)
Villanova (6-4)

It's not just the fact they were winning, they were killing teams. They were so much better than everyone else on their it's schedule it became comical. Sure it might not have been the "strongest" schedule out there but it wasn't "weak" either. It was a solid, practical schedule for 1987.

[frozennorth]

I take the 2015 Title Game NDSU team against any FCS team ever. Woulda rolled 2013 NDSU or 1996 Marshall

Little confused, you just posted the above information and then you don't include that team in your list, just curious
seems pretty obvious. 2015 NDSU was only at its peak for a single game. 2013 and 2017 (and the others) were that good for the entire season

[frozennorth]

I've seen a couple people mention NDSU 2017 .. one with caveat, had they had no key injuries, which to me should not be factored into this discussion.

That said, NDSU 2017 barely beat JMU 2017, and needed 4-5 dropped passes by JMU receivers, or outcome could likely have flipped. And I would further agree with most people that JMU 2017 was not as good as JMU 2016. Not to mention, NDSU 2017 lost to SDSU. So I wouldn't put NDSU 2017 up in that stratosphere ... they had their moments and they did have some key injuries (most teams have some), but certainly not what NDSU 2013 accomplished.
JMU 2017 would have been just the 4th undefeated national champion and holder of an active 29 game win streak and is one of the very best teams to not win a title.

2017 NDSU was a match for 2013 both position by position and by results on the field (points for and against, total yards, etc), against a harder schedule, that they did it down multiple current and future all-americans just hints at what could have been. I'm not saying that 2017 was better than 2013, I'm saying that these are the top 6 wire to wire teams, IMO.

[Lorne_Malvo]

I've seen a couple people mention NDSU 2017 .. one with caveat, had they had no key injuries, which to me should not be factored into this discussion.

That said, NDSU 2017 barely beat JMU 2017, and needed 4-5 dropped passes by JMU receivers, or outcome could likely have flipped. And I would further agree with most people that JMU 2017 was not as good as JMU 2016. Not to mention, NDSU 2017 lost to SDSU. So I wouldn't put NDSU 2017 up in that stratosphere ... they had their moments and they did have some key injuries (most teams have some), but certainly not what NDSU 2013 accomplished.

NDSU intentionally loses a game every year to lessen the FCS butthurt and impede the FBS or bust crowd. :)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

seems pretty obvious. 2015 NDSU was only at its peak for a single game. 2013 and 2017 (and the others) were that good for the entire season

It wasn't as obvious as you might think cuz I was wondering the same thing.

[Sader87]

I will carry on.

Lafayette and Fordham hoop's also spent time ranked in the 1970's. The NIT by then had become the clear second class tournament so don't try to prop that nonsense up. HC hoops in the 1970's produced 1, ONE, UNO tournament appearance

Holy Cross NCAA Tournament Appearances (13)
1947 (National Champs), 1948, 1950, 1953, 1956, 1977, 1980, 1993, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2007, 2016

- HC has won 1 NCAA Tournament game since 1953. That was a 58-54 First 4 win over Southern in 2016.
- HC has not finished ranked in the Final AP Poll since 1960

Lehigh football was playing basically the same schools HC was in 1970's. HC had BC, Lehigh Rutgers. The biggest difference is Lehigh football was a success in the 1970's while Holy Cross was not. In fact D2 Lehigh would have beat 1-A Holy Cross several years during the 70's.

Holy Cross Football's record for the 1970's? 37-68-3
Lehigh Football's record for the 1970's? 76-38-1

You're too easy to crush '87....

Much of that disparity was due to HC playing much tougher schedules than Lehigh back then.

Lehigh 1978:

West Chester St
Slippery Rock
Colgate
UPenn
Delaware
Davidson
VMI
Bucknell
C.W. Post
Maine
Lafayette

Holy Cross 1978:

UNH
Colgate
Air Force
Dartmouth
Army
Brown
BU
UMass
Rutgers
UConn
BC

I'm not saying HC was vastly better than Lehigh in football in the 1970s, some years they probably were not....but they were playing at a level collectively higher than Lehigh back then.

[Go...gate]

Much of that disparity was due to HC playing much tougher schedules than Lehigh back then.

Lehigh 1978:

West Chester St
Slippery Rock
Colgate
UPenn
Delaware
Davidson
VMI
Bucknell
C.W. Post
Maine
Lafayette

Holy Cross 1978:

UNH
Colgate
Air Force
Dartmouth
Army
Brown
BU
UMass
Rutgers
UConn
BC

I'm not saying HC was vastly better than Lehigh in football in the 1970s, some years they probably were not....but they were playing at a level collectively higher than Lehigh back then.

That is my recollection, as well.

Also worth noting that Lehigh was 25-65-2 in the 1960's.

[grayghost06]

Lehigh 1978 schedule: 3 I-A teams, 5 I-AA (all of whom were DII in '77) and 3 DII teams.

Holy Cross 1978 schedule: 7 I-A teams, 4 I-AA (all of whom were D-II in '77) and 0 DII teams

Records could have easily been reversed had schedules been flip flopped.

[POD Knows]

seems pretty obvious. 2015 NDSU was only at its peak for a single game. 2013 and 2017 (and the others) were that good for the entire seasonOK, I get what you are saying but I have to disagree, although I will grant you that JSU was better than Towson and I get the "Wentz" deal for the championship game but I still don't think that team, with Wentz in that game, is better than the 2013 team.

[Go...gate]

HC was a very good team but its schedule was largely restricted to the Northeast. Only one Northeastern school (Maine) even qualified for the playoffs that season, along with Yankee Conference champion Richmond. Here are the teams HC played in 1987, with a combined season record of 56-58-2.

Army (5-6)
Lafayette (4-7)
Lehigh (5-5-1)
Colgate (7-4)
Dartmouth (2-8)
Bucknell (4-5-1)
Brown (7-3)
Massachusetts (3-8)
Harvard (8-2)
William & Mary (5-6)
Villanova (6-4)

HC utterly dominated their schedule. The Colgate team they murdered 49-7 lost to three other clubs - Syracuse (#2 in I-A), Duke (I-A) and Lehigh. Had they played Davidson (which did not play a full PL schedule in '87) they might have scored 100. They were that good.

[HensRock]

1996 Marshall:
Maintained #1 I-AA Ranking for entire Season
Averaged nearly 44 ppg.

Howard W 55-27
WV State W 42-7
@Georgia Southern (#13) W 29-13
WKU (#12) W 37-3
Chattanooga W 45-0
@VMI W 45-20
W. Carolina W 56-21
@App. State (#20) W 24-10
The Citadel W 56-25
@ETSU (#7) W 34-10
Furman W 42-17

Playoffs:
Delaware (#10) W 59-14
Furman (#9) W 54-0
UNI (#3) W 31-14
Montana (#2) W 49-29

Average Margin of Victory (Season): 29.867 ppg

Average Margin of Victory (Playoffs): 34.0 ppg !!!!

[Redbird 4th & short]

OK, I get what you are saying but I have to disagree, although I will grant you that JSU was better than Towson and I get the "Wentz" deal for the championship game but I still don't think that team, with Wentz in that game, is better than the 2013 team.

agreed .. been following the NDSU teams closely over the years ... figuratively and literally. While I realize stats don't tell the whole story, but they should certainly tell part of the story. And when looking at a teams stats relative to their competition, and then trying to compare that to other dominant teams from other strong conferences (i.e. strong SOS) ... in 2013, NDSU dominated in virtually every phase of the game ... and I mean, every phase of game.

They started the year beating an 8-5 Kansas St team by 3 on road. Same team who's 4 other losses to Oklahoma (11-2) by 10, Texas (8-5) by 10 on road, Ok St (10-3) by 4 on road, Baylor (11-2) by 10. Massey had 3 of those 4 teams in top 16, the 4th top 30.

Then after running table in MVFC (top conf per Massey Composite), they steamrolled thru playoffs winning by 31, 34, 38, and 28. Their SOS for season ranked #1 winning by avg of 28 points per game.

As if that didn't stand out enough by itself .. you need to comb NCAA and MVFC sites to see where their team stats ranked in every phase of game .. they were at or near the top in so many phases. This while playing the #1 ranked SOS in FCS. I didn't look at same for other top teams, other than JMU 2015 .. and as good as JMU 2015 was on both side of ball .. they were not close to NDSU 2013 in every phase of game.

Again, I realize stats don't tell the whole story .. but I would bet a lot of money, no team has ever dominated in every phase of game like NDSU 2013. And having watched them, you almost got the feeling they called the dogs off many games early in Q3 or Q4.

[soconjohn]

1996 Marshall...That was easy.

[thebootfitter]

My armchair analysis is that it is too close to call between 1996 Marshall and 2013 Bison.


There's one thing that separates 1996 Marshall from 2013 NDSU...NDSU did not play any team close to the 1996 Montana team that whipped an Oregon State team and won its playoff games 48-3, 44-14, and 70-7. If that Marshall team doesn't exist than that Montana team is probably considered one of the all-time greats.
Well... except for the defending Big 12 champs who were pretty darn good in 2013. ;-)


You NDSU boys need to be around a little more than 15 years before you start talking about all time history. You sound like a bunch of teenagers talking about how something has been going on for "a long time" meaning like for like a year or more.
Interesting... this was the sort of knock on Bison fans who thought they could probably compete in the FCS because of their success in DII. (Just wait until you've been around for awhile... you'll see how much different it is. Come talk to us after you win a championship at this level.) Nevermind the fact that NDSU of the '80s very likely would have fared well against FCS teams of the time. Erk Russell saw some film of the Bison of the '80s and shared with the Bison coach Rocky Hager that NDSU was likely to give Georgia Southern everything they could handle or something along those lines. While Massey has its issues comparing across divisions, NDSU and GSU in some years were very closely ranked in Massey. I think I remember finding at least one or two years where NDSU was even higher than GSU, but it might have been a slightly down year for GSU when they didn't win the natty.

And when Bison fans felt their 2006 and 2007 teams would have fared pretty well in the playoffs. (Ha! Yeah, right... you just played well against some "crappy" DI-A teams and beat up on a weak conference... and LOST to SDSU. Ha ha! No way! Wait until you play some GOOD teams!)

And when the Bison won their first championship. (Competition is watered down... Just wait until you've won more than a single championship... etc.)

Bison football has a rich history, regardless of division. Many of the folks discussing the 1996 Marshall team on this thread were probably have limited or exaggerated memories of actually watching them play. And if you rely on comparative statistics, then there isn't a clear way to rank them against the 2013 Bison team, other than Moss being an X-factor.

As I just recently posted in another thread, while I don't think the 2013 Bison had any individuals capable of shutting Moss down from a pass defense perspective, I do think that an overall defensive scheme executed very well by a super solid defense everywhere could limit the Moss impact by making it very difficult for the offense to get him the ball. If the Bison defensive front can contain the run threat and get pressure on Kresser so that he is a bit rattled and shaken, it could definitely limit his effectiveness in getting the ball anywhere Moss could grab it and make magic. It's a match up I'd love to see, but unfortunately, we never will. So all we're left with is speculation and comparison. Kind of fun in its own right.

[Silenoz]

Average Margin of Victory (Playoffs): 34.0 ppg !!!!

The crazy part is the Griz' average playoff margin of victory was 46 before that ass kicking

[cx500d]

The crazy part is the Griz' average playoff margin of victory was 46 before that ass kicking
They were the Sammy of the day

[Redbird 4th & short]

The crazy part is the Griz' average playoff margin of victory was 46 before that ass kicking

begs the uneducated (i.e. I wasn't paying attention to FCS back then at all) question ... was it a much weaker field in that era ??

p.s. mostly kidding, but it does raise eye brow some

[cx500d]

begs the uneducated (i.e. I wasn't paying attention to FCS back then at all) question ... was it a much weaker field in that era ??

p.s. mostly kidding, but it does raise eye brow some


Not sure, but I think NDSU had a winning record against 1-AA when we were Div 2

[thebootfitter]

Not sure, but I think NDSU had a winning record against 1-AA when we were Div 2
And that was playing UNI, Montana, etc. I don't think we played too many games against 1-AA teams though.

[BisonFan02]

agreed .. been following the NDSU teams closely over the years ... figuratively and literally. While I realize stats don't tell the whole story, but they should certainly tell part of the story. And when looking at a teams stats relative to their competition, and then trying to compare that to other dominant teams from other strong conferences (i.e. strong SOS) ... in 2013, NDSU dominated in virtually every phase of the game ... and I mean, every phase of game.

They started the year beating an 8-5 Kansas St team by 3 on road. Same team who's 4 other losses to Oklahoma (11-2) by 10, Texas (8-5) by 10 on road, Ok St (10-3) by 4 on road, Baylor (11-2) by 10. Massey had 3 of those 4 teams in top 16, the 4th top 30.

Then after running table in MVFC (top conf per Massey Composite), they steamrolled thru playoffs winning by 31, 34, 38, and 28. Their SOS for season ranked #1 winning by avg of 28 points per game.

As if that didn't stand out enough by itself .. you need to comb NCAA and MVFC sites to see where their team stats ranked in every phase of game .. they were at or near the top in so many phases. This while playing the #1 ranked SOS in FCS. I didn't look at same for other top teams, other than JMU 2015 .. and as good as JMU 2015 was on both side of ball .. they were not close to NDSU 2013 in every phase of game.

Again, I realize stats don't tell the whole story .. but I would bet a lot of money, no team has ever dominated in every phase of game like NDSU 2013. And having watched them, you almost got the feeling they called the dogs off many games early in Q3 or Q4.

The only knock on the 2013 team was that they were banged up. A senior laden football team that had a few guys who "lost a half a step". Heagle, Williams, Olson, etc. all had played an absolute PILE of football.....

I've had the same opinion of a guy like DeLuca this year who didn't flash as much as he did even in the 2015 season.

[cx500d]

And that was playing UNI, Montana, etc. I don't think we played too many games against 1-AA teams though.

Those were the only ones I remember and we won them both as I recall


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[Mattymc727]

I hate the Bison like everyone else, but that 2013 team was better than the 96 Marshall team.

[Redbird 4th & short]

The only knock on the 2013 team was that they were banged up. A senior laden football team that had a few guys who "lost a half a step". Heagle, Williams, Olson, etc. all had played an absolute PILE of football.....

I've had the same opinion of a guy like DeLuca this year who didn't flash as much as he did even in the 2015 season.
eh .... you would know that better than me, but when you're winning games by 4-5 TDs on average. I'm doubting your starters are any more banged up than the top tier MVFC teams chasing you and sqeaking out whatever big wins we could (i.e. SDSU, UNI, ISUr, and YSU) .. even as senior dominant team. And I'm further assuming Bohl used his roster depth pretty effectively during regular season knowing he had 4 playoff games to "taper" for every year.

Also hear you guys rave about your strength & conditioning coach ... that is huge element of dealing with grind both offseason and inseason .. especially important when you know you are playing 3 to 4 more playoff games every year. ISUr HC Spack (with strength coach Lathrop) is known for putting players thru very hard workouts to point of wearing his players down with his old school approach to conditioning .. sometimes in August before season has even started.

So I'm guessing your Bison are typically in better condition than most teams for the season long grind, and further know how to manage players who are banged up. Again, maybe your 2013 senior heavy team was running on fumes during playoffs .. but most teams are, especially the ones trying to knock you guys off the throne. I know for fact my ISUr was.

[Redbird 4th & short]

My armchair analysis is that it is too close to call between 1996 Marshall and 2013 Bison.


Well... except for the defending Big 12 champs who were pretty darn good in 2013. ;-)

....

Not to mention that Oregon St was a 2-9 FBS team ranked #91 by Massey that year ... a quality win for Montana for sure, but only because they won by 3 TDs over a bad FBS team. Still liking that 96 Montana as one of best teams to not win title.

https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5970&s=41841

[dewey]

1996 Marshall:
Maintained #1 I-AA Ranking for entire Season
Averaged nearly 44 ppg.

Howard W 55-27
WV State W 42-7
@Georgia Southern (#13) W 29-13
WKU (#12) W 37-3
Chattanooga W 45-0
@VMI W 45-20
W. Carolina W 56-21
@App. State (#20) W 24-10
The Citadel W 56-25
@ETSU (#7) W 34-10
Furman W 42-17

Playoffs:
Delaware (#10) W 59-14
Furman (#9) W 54-0
UNI (#3) W 31-14
Montana (#2) W 49-29

Average Margin of Victory (Season): 29.867 ppg

Average Margin of Victory (Playoffs): 34.0 ppg !!!!

Here are the 2013 NDSU statistics
IIRC 2013 was #1 ranked the entire season as well.

Offensive scoring per game
Average 37.1 ppg for the regular season
Averaged 43.25 ppg for the playoffs
Averaged 38.7 ppg for the entire season

Defensive scoring per game
Average 11.5 ppg for the regular season
Averaged 10.5 ppg for the playoffs
Averaged 11.3 ppg for the entire season

Regular Season
@ Kansas State (FBS) 24-21 (W)
Ferris State (D2) 56-10 (W)
Delaware State 51-0 (W)
@ #6 South Dakota State 20-0 (W)
#4 Northern Iowa 24-23 (W)
Missouri State 41-26 (W)
@ Southern Illinois 31-10 (W)
@ Indiana State 56-10 (W)
Illinois State 28-10 (W)
@ #15 Youngstown State 35-17 (W)
South Dakota 42-0 (W)

Playoffs
Furman 38-7 (W)
#11 Coastal Carolina 48-14 (W)
#15 New Hampshire 52-14 (W)
#5 Towson 35-7 (W)

Average margin of victory (Regular Season) = 25.5 ppg
Average Margin of Victory (Playoffs) = 32.75 ppg

Dewey

[Silenoz]

They were the Sammy of the day
Hey oh


You'd have a point if we hadn't accidentally won some of our championship appearances

[TheKingpin28]

Hey oh


You'd have a point if we hadn't accidentally won some of our championship appearancesDoes a NAIA Championship in which they tied the Cobbers count? xlolx

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[Bisonator]

Marshall's opponents were a combined 107-69, they played a D2 but no FBS game, 11 home games including the championship game.

NDSU's opponents were a combined 110-82, they played a D2 and an FBS game, 9 home games, 10 if you count Frisco.

[Redbird 4th & short]

this should settle the debate over 2013 NDSU vs 1996 Marshall .. side by side of games sorted by Opponent-Rank (per Massey) with Margin, plus a NEW & IMPROVED feature .. a 5 game average of Opponent-Rank and Margin .. all with my patent-pending color coded heat map depicting good/green and bad/red.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27418&stc=1

NDSU played tougher schedule overall, but Marshall had bigger average margin. NDSU had slightly better result against top 5 teams; Marshall had better result against middle 5. NDSU had better result against bottom 5.

It's pretty clear from above ... still a frickin' toss up ... dang it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Redbird 4th & short]

this should settle the debate over 2013 NDSU vs 1996 Marshall .. side by side of games sorted by Opponent-Rank (per Massey) with Margin, plus a NEW & IMPROVED feature .. a 5 game average of Opponent-Rank and Margin .. all with my patent-pending color coded heat map depicting good/green and bad/red.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27418&stc=1

NDSU played tougher schedule overall, but Marshall had bigger average margin. NDSU had slightly better result against top 5 teams; Marshall had better result against middle 5. NDSU had better result against bottom 5.

It's pretty clear from above ... still a frickin' toss up ... dang it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I take it back .. if you look at each teams top 5, NDSU clearly had 4 of 5 better results against the toughest 5 teams. NDSU clearly out performed in the bottom 5 with bigger margins against slightly tougher teams. In the middle 5, Marshall had bigger margins, but NDSU had tougher schedule ... so slight advantage to Marshall.

Consider above analysis and over all tougher schedule for NDSU, I hereby declare, bequeath, and dubb the 2013 NDSU Bison .. Best FCS Team ever !!!

Next thread !!!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I take it back .. if you look at each teams top 5, NDSU clearly had 4 of 5 better results against the toughest 5 teams. NDSU clearly out performed in the bottom 5 with bigger margins against slightly tougher teams. In the middle 5, Marshall had bigger margins, but NDSU had tougher schedule ... so slight advantage to Marshall.

Consider above analysis and over all tougher schedule for NDSU, I hereby declare, bequeath, and dubb the 2013 NDSU Bison .. Best FCS Team ever !!!

Next thread !!!

I'm not doing it but first thing I'm wondering is how UM and Marshall would have stacked up prior to the NC that year. As always, the Massey stuff means very little and is no more of a signifies of who wins than your average knowledgeable FCS fan that can remove homer glasses anyway.

I realize you are posting that a bit tongue in cheek but wanted to reply to it.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I'm not doing it but first thing I'm wondering is how UM and Marshall would have stacked up prior to the NC that year. As always, the Massey stuff means very little and is no more of a signifies of who wins than your average knowledgeable FCS fan that can remove homer glasses anyway.

I realize you are posting that a bit tongue in cheek but wanted to reply to it.

it was partly tongue in cheek, but it's also the only obejective side by side comparsion that can be done with any SOS relativity. My grid is easy to update .. so I'll do the ones you suggested above when I get a chance this week.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

it was partly tongue in cheek, but it's also the only objective side by side comparison that can be done with any SOS relativity. My grid is easy to update .. so I'll do the ones you suggested above when I get a chance this week.

It's not the only one! The ursusey ratings are out there as well. xlolx

Would be interesting to see if any predictive quality between a game we know between from that time.

[ElCid]

I take it back .. if you look at each teams top 5, NDSU clearly had 4 of 5 better results against the toughest 5 teams. NDSU clearly out performed in the bottom 5 with bigger margins against slightly tougher teams. In the middle 5, Marshall had bigger margins, but NDSU had tougher schedule ... so slight advantage to Marshall.

Consider above analysis and over all tougher schedule for NDSU, I hereby declare, bequeath, and dubb the 2013 NDSU Bison .. Best FCS Team ever !!!

Next thread !!!

Yeah, a few problems with this. It is relative schedule, not absolute. You can't merely use the ranking because in any given year, the #10 team might be better than the #1 team the next year. If anything, a more accurate comparison would be to the actual rating. But any comparison, using a computer, of teams almost 20 years apart, is pretty inaccurate. They are no where near tied together. I mean, how many degrees of separation? I understand what you did though. You just based it off how they did against the SOS rank for each season. Not a bad way, but still doesn't answer the question.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Yeah, a few problems with this. It is relative schedule, not absolute. You can't merely use the ranking because in any given year, the #10 team might be better than the #1 team the next year. If anything, a more accurate comparison would be to the actual rating. But any comparison, using a computer, of teams almost 20 years apart, is pretty inaccurate. They are no where near tied together. I mean, how many degrees of separation? I understand what you did though. You just based it off how they did against the SOS rank for each season. Not a bad way, but still doesn't answer the question.

mostly agree with your basic point about weaknesses in reliance on computers, except for generalization about "using a computer, of teams almost 20 years apart, is pretty inaccurate". I think only a computer is capable of doing something like this 20 years apart. It's the exact same thing human minds attempt to do when comparing teams .. whether 20 years or 1 year apart .... or even same season, who's conferences don't usually play each other ... but humans do it with a very limited set of data points, and lot more subjectivity and bias. Whereas computers at least are able to do so based completely on a set of facts consisting of virtually and unlimited # of relative data points (i.e. combinations) to support it. So I assume computers are equally as likely to over-rate a team as they are to under-rate one, especially when comparing teams this many years apart.

I think the main flaw in computer rankings is the tendency for strong conferences to cluster at top and weak conferences to cluster at bottom during a single season. So by end of season, I would agree, computers tend to self-perpetuate. Not necessarily wrong, and certainly not entirely wrong, just can get skewed at extremes. Example being, it just becomes hard for a truly great team in an average conference who may have started a little slow to move up against teams in the best conference who play only themselves the last 8 games of season. This is further why I tend to think computer rankings tend to be at their most credible around weeks 6 to 9 .. when prior season (including playoffs) and the current season's 3 non-conf games still carry fair amount of weight still.

Back to my main point ... I rely on Massey mainly for SOS, not for predictive value in any one game. I just wish some polls would give more objective consideration to SOS, and particularly the FCS selection committee. It has improved considerably since 2013 .. still have some work to do.

Not trying to be argumentative ... (it just comes naturally to me :D ) ... but do hope that clarifies my support and use of Massey.

[Bisonator]

The OP needs to add a poll. We've clearly narrowed it down to 2 teams............I think.xlolx

[ElCid]

mostly agree with your basic point about weaknesses in reliance on computers, except for generalization about "using a computer, of teams almost 20 years apart, is pretty inaccurate". I think only a computer is capable of doing something like this 20 years apart. It's the exact same thing human minds attempt to do when comparing teams .. whether 20 years or 1 year apart .... or even same season, who's conferences don't usually play each other ... but humans do it with a very limited set of data points, and lot more subjectivity and bias. Whereas computers at least are able to do so based completely on a set of facts consisting of virtually and unlimited # of relative data points (i.e. combinations) to support it. So I assume computers are equally as likely to over-rate a team as they are to under-rate one, especially when comparing teams this many years apart.

I think the main flaw in computer rankings is the tendency for strong conferences to cluster at top and weak conferences to cluster at bottom during a single season. So by end of season, I would agree, computers tend to self-perpetuate. Not necessarily wrong, and certainly not entirely wrong, just can get skewed at extremes. Example being, it just becomes hard for a truly great team in an average conference who may have started a little slow to move up against teams in the best conference who play only themselves the last 8 games of season. This is further why I tend to think computer rankings tend to be at their most credible around weeks 6 to 9 .. when prior season (including playoffs) and the current season's 3 non-conf games still carry fair amount of weight still.

Back to my main point ... I rely on Massey mainly for SOS, not for predictive value in any one game. I just wish some polls would give more objective consideration to SOS, and particularly the FCS selection committee. It has improved considerably since 2013 .. still have some work to do.

Not trying to be argumentative ... (it just comes naturally to me :D ) ... but do hope that clarifies my support and use of Massey.

Got it. But my main point was it may be more accurate if you use the "rating" instead of the ranking. Again, the #10 ranked team this year might have the same "rating" that the # 1 ranked team did last year or the # 30 ranked team two years from now. Those examples were exaggerated for illustration. Just using ranking doesn't show the shades of gray. And that could be a lot or a miniscule amount.

[ElCid]

The OP needs to add a poll. We've clearly narrowed it down to 2 teams............I think.xlolx

No, we need someone to invent time travel and have each team move forward and back in time, to a neutral time period, and have a game at a neutral site as well, and go at it. That is the only fair way to decide.

Somebody get on that.

[dewey]

No, we need someone to invent time travel and have each team move forward and back in time, to a neutral time period, and have a game at a neutral site as well, and go at it. That is the only fair way to decide.

Somebody get on that.

Neutral site = Frisco (Fargo South) Texas:D

Dewey

[Redbird 4th & short]

Got it. But my main point was it may be more accurate if you use the "rating" instead of the ranking. Again, the #10 ranked team this year might have the same "rating" that the # 1 ranked team did last year or the # 30 ranked team two years from now. Those examples were exaggerated for illustration. Just using ranking doesn't show the shades of gray. And that could be a lot or a miniscule amount.
Oh ... valid point on Massey opponent "rating" versus ranking .. except each teams schedule of results only shows the opponent ranking .. not the rating. Massey makes it much easier to pull opponent rankings than ratings.

[cx500d]

No, we need someone to invent time travel and have each team move forward and back in time, to a neutral time period, and have a game at a neutral site as well, and go at it. That is the only fair way to decide.

Somebody get on that.

Kind of like Marshall playing for a championship in their own stadium?


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[ElCid]

Oh ... valid point on Massey opponent "rating" versus ranking .. except each teams schedule of results only shows the opponent ranking .. not the rating. Massey makes it much easier to pull opponent rankings than ratings.

Actually they do. You have to go to "rating Archive" in the far right pull down menu. You can get to different years from that point. I know, I have entirely too much toime on my hands.:D



http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27441&stc=1

[ElCid]

Kind of like Marshall playing for a championship in their own stadium?


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But I thought Frisco was NDSU's home away from home..........?

[Redbird 4th & short]

Actually they do. You have to go to "rating Archive" in the far right pull down menu. You can get to different years from that point. I know, I have entirely too much toime on my hands.:D



http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27441&stc=1
Correct about Massey's own ranking history. But I was referring to the actual Massey Composite of all 35 polls .. week by week, they used to archive this for FCS, but dropped it a year ago and only kept FBS that I can find.

So to answer question Ursus asked .. what did Massey predict BEFORE the 96 championship. Used to be able to see all 35 polls on Massey composite for every week of season. Not any more .. that I have found .. yet.

- - - Updated - - -


Actually they do. You have to go to "rating Archive" in the far right pull down menu. You can get to different years from that point. I know, I have entirely too much toime on my hands.:D



http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27441&stc=1
Correct about Massey's own ranking history. But I was referring to the actual Massey Composite of all 35 polls .. week by week, they used to archive this for FCS, but dropped it a year ago and only kept FBS that I can find.

So to answer question Ursus asked .. what did Massey predict BEFORE the 96 championship. Used to be able to see all 35 polls on Massey composite for every week of season. Not any more .. that I have found .. yet.

[IBleedYellow]

But I thought Frisco was NDSU's home away from home..........?

While obviously this is sarcasm...

But you can't be serious. There's an obvious difference between sleeping in your own bed, using your own locker room and playing on your own field vs flying across the country, hotel beds, etc.

[ElCid]

While obviously this is sarcasm...

But you can't be serious. There's an obvious difference between sleeping in your own bed, using your own locker room and playing on your own field vs flying across the country, hotel beds, etc.

But I see you concentrated on merely the travel aspect and not time warping back from 2013 to a neutral time period.xlolx I would think that would be more disorienting than merely traveling a few hundred miles.:D Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[GreenGlasses]

While obviously this is sarcasm..
But you can't be serious. There's an obvious difference between sleeping in your own bed, using your own locker room and playing on your own field vs flying across the country, hotel beds, etc.

At the time if others didn't like it then maybe they should have put a bid in. When Marshall hosted from 91-96. The only year a counter bid was put in was in 91 and it was from Statesboro, Georgia and it came in $17,000 lower than the Huntington bid. When Marshall moved up after the 96 season there was 3 bids put in then Huntsville, TX (Sam Houston State), Cedar Falls, Iowa (Northern Iowa) and the eventual bid winner Chattanooga, TN (UTC).

Truthfully I think the game every 3 years should be bid on and the highest bid of the east, middle of the county and west should get the game. Say 1 year in Harrisburg VA, the next in Normal, IL and then in Missoula, MT. And then start the bidding over again.

[Redbird 4th & short]

But I see you concentrated on merely the travel aspect and not time warping back from 2013 to a neutral time period.xlolx I would think that would be more disorienting than merely traveling a few hundred miles.:D Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Agree, neutral time period would be only be fair way to do this .. how about Roman Gladiator times ?? Would this change your vote .. ask any ISUr player, they would pick EIU .. local bitter football rivalry, played 100+ straight years, and they are typically the chippiest/dirtiest team we play every year.

For those that know, it is like Bears-Packers from the 1980's .. does not matter how much better ISU usually is, it is usually an ugly dogfight of a game.

Picture below is from last years game .. guy on left is their MLB, guy on right is DE .. this is right before the dude with sword sliced off QB Kolbes left arm .. ref claims he didn't see it .. total bullsh-t no call. Kolbe finished game with one arm before being rushed to ER to reattach his left arm.



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLkeezUs3SMEpqi2xH-pcHpRjOshq1kK7SVKSH7Y-weYZk-oUG

[frozennorth]

I just wanted to be the first to nominate 2018 NDSU xrotatehx

[cx500d]

Picture below is from last years game ... this is right before the dude with sword sliced off QB Kolbes left arm .. ref claims he didn't see it .. total bullsh-t no call. Kolbe finished game with one arm before being rushed to ER to reattach his left arm.



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLkeezUs3SMEpqi2xH-pcHpRjOshq1kK7SVKSH7Y-weYZk-oUG

Sounds like just a minor flesh wound



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[dewey]

I just wanted to be the first to nominate 2018 NDSU xrotatehx

I second the motion:D

Dewey

[WeAreThePride]

I second the motion:D

Deweythirded.

[POD Knows]

I second the motion:D

DeweySecond second

[Redbird 4th & short]

Sounds like just a minor flesh wound



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
clearly you must be another one of those former refs who sympathizes with bad refs

xrotatehx

Monty Python movie reference ?? If so, well played sir.

[uni88]

I just wanted to be the first to nominate 2018 NDSU xrotatehxAre they even going to be the greatest team in their own state? Rumor has it that the F'ing Hawks are hitting the weight room hard.

[Bisonoline]

Are they even going to be the greatest team in their own state? Rumor has it that the F'ing Hawks are hitting the weight room hard.

xlmaoxxlmaox

[TheKingpin28]

Are they even going to be the greatest team in their own state? Rumor has it that the F'ing Hawks are hitting the weight room hard.You'd think after 3 years they would have something to show for it. The good news is that 2019, they get to get curb stomped in the Fargodome once again and we still won't be playing for the Nickel due to GFCC being too afraid of giving up something that is not rightfully their's.

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[cx500d]

Monty Python movie reference ?? If so, well played sir.

👍


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[ST_Lawson]

Sounds like just a minor flesh wound



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I got better.


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