Montana Releases 2007 Schedule

[GrizDen]

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/02/16/sports/sports02.txt

“There are no guarantee games against BCS schools, though Montana athletic director Jim O'Day said Kansas State was a distinct possibility. There were attempts to set up games with an Ivy League school, two-time Division I Football Championship Subdivision champion Appalachian State and Great West powers North Dakota State and Cal Poly.

Dates and location were problems: Appalachian State's schedule didn't match up, and NDSU and Cal Poly were trying to find home games.”

2007 Schedule:
September 1 Southern Utah
September 8 Fort Lewis College
September 15 Open
September 22 Albany
September 29 Weber State
October 6 E. Washington
October 13 at Sacramento State
October 20 Northern Colorado
October 27 at Northern Arizona
November 3 Portland State
November 10 at Idaho State
November 17 at Montana State


I’m personally embarrassed by this non-league schedule. :bang: None of the OOC games are intriguing match ups. There is no reason why the Griz shouldn’t have given up the game against Ft. Lewis or Albany for a game at NDSU or Cal Poly. Again, embarrassing.

[ASU Kep]

Yah, that sure looks like a pretty weak schedule. I really wish we could've gotten a game together.

[Tod]

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/02/16/sports/sports02.txt

“There are no guarantee games against BCS schools, though Montana athletic director Jim O'Day said Kansas State was a distinct possibility. There were attempts to set up games with an Ivy League school, two-time Division I Football Championship Subdivision champion Appalachian State and Great West powers North Dakota State and Cal Poly.

Dates and location were problems: Appalachian State's schedule didn't match up, and NDSU and Cal Poly were trying to find home games.”

2007 Schedule:
September 1 Southern Utah
September 8 Fort Lewis College
September 15 Open
September 22 Albany
September 29 Weber State
October 6 E. Washington
October 13 at Sacramento State
October 20 Northern Colorado
October 27 at Northern Arizona
November 3 Portland State
November 10 at Idaho State
November 17 at Montana State


I’m personally embarrassed by this non-league schedule. :bang: None of the OOC games are intriguing match ups. There is no reason why the Griz shouldn’t have given up the game against Ft. Lewis or Albany for a game at NDSU or Cal Poly. Again, embarrassing.

I don't have a problem with SUU. They may be the weakest team in the Great West, but they are a full scholly FCS team. What's to apologize for?

Albany finished last season in the top third of the subdivision. I'm ok with Albany, too.

But, Fort Lewis? Replace that game with ASU or NDSU, and it's a fine OOC schedule, IMO.

Part of the problem is Montana's insistence on having seven home games every year. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[bluehenbillk]

“There are no guarantee games against BCS schools, though Montana athletic director Jim O'Day said Kansas State was a distinct possibility. There were attempts to set up games with an Ivy League school, two-time Division I Football Championship Subdivision champion Appalachian State and Great West powers North Dakota State and Cal Poly.

Dates and location were problems: Appalachian State's schedule didn't match up, and NDSU and Cal Poly were trying to find home games.”



Nothing but excuses for a really weak schedule. Better hope they win the Big Sky.

[AppGuy04]

Wow, that is amazingly weak

[Tod]

Nothing but excuses for a really weak schedule. Better hope they win the Big Sky.

Uh...Westchester and Monmouth?

[Grizzaholic]

So much for being a 'premier' program in FCS. We return all kinds of starters along with LEX and what did our AD do???? :bang: Maybe he should have hit his head against the wall harder before contemplating this schedule.

And heven forbid we lose one of the first 3 games.......

What ever happened to the early season road trip. First 5 games are home?? So homecomming.... How could it be called that if we never left?

[citdog]

Montana can play whoever the hell they want. We all know where they will be in the end. Right in the middle of the NC race.

[Umass74]

Looks like an 11-0 season in 2007 for the Grizz.:)

[GrizDen]

Looks like an 11-0 season in 2007 for the Grizz.:)

It has definitely been set up to give the Griz all the opportunities to go undefeated. With an OOC schedule like this one, at least for this Griz fan an 11-0 regular season would be a hollow season without at least getting to the chipper.

[Mountaineer]

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1772/dickvitalemf2.jpg

Cupcake city baaaaybe!! :thumbsup:

[Sundown]

Ahhhh...the memories of the '04 OOC schedule... What a year.

[Grizzaholic]

I know this is mixing sports but, didn't DUKE have a ***** load of home games to start off the season and now they are in the crapper. I never like a whole bunch of home games in a row, maybe for tailgating but that is it. I think it gives the team a false sense of security.

[AppGuy04]

So I guess the idea that Montana won't travel IS true

[OB55]

I think there's a lot to say about playing a much tougher opponent in the non-con season, get your signature win early, play less uptight going into the POs

[Bobcat in NC]

Looks like an 11-0 season in 2007 for the Grizz.:)

We'll see...

[Ronbo]

Part of the problem at Montana is the complaining fans. You put App. State, UNI, and McNeese State on the schedule and you have evreyone buzzing and happy till we lose one or two of them. Then the boo birds come out. The fan base has no tolerance for any losses and the AD is just addressing that. In fact our fan base complains if we don't win games by over 30 points. That's why 60% of fans are afraid to go to the WAC, they can't stand to even lose one game much less 5 or 6.

[bluehenbillk]

Uh...Westchester and Monmouth?

True, but you leave out Navy....

[Tod]

True, but you leave out Navy....

Yes, but we played Iowa last season and Oregon the season before. It gets old. I wouldn't mind an FBS team on the schedule, I'd just like to see one that we have a chance to beat.

Not gonna happen, because they can't afford us. :o

[BigApp]

Looks like an 11-0 season in 2007 for the Grizz.:)

wow. If they're not 10-0 heading into that finale, they've got problems.

Yikes, that is weak.

[bluehenbillk]

That's not the point, yes there's no FBS or 1-A team but there's nobody period.

[Proud Griz Man]

So I guess the idea that Montana won't travel IS true

Montana has played at Northern Iowa (ask D1 Boy), McNeese State, Louisiana Tech, Sam Houston St., Maine, Hofstra, Cal Poly SLO, Fresno State, Wyoming, Washington State, Kansas State, Idaho, Oregon State (beat them in Corvallis twice), Oregon, Iowa, Minnesota, Nevada Las Vegas, North Texas, Hawaii, etc.
:nod:

[Tod]

That's not the point, yes there's no FBS or 1-A team but there's nobody period.

Bill, one of those "nobody" teams beat UD last year, didn't they?

[bluehenbillk]

Yep, and where did UD end up last year. It's still plain weak as much as you try to deflect it...

[FargoBison]

Seven home games are nice but if it requires having to play that kind of schedule it isn't worth it, a smart AD would have traveled to App St, NDSU, SDSU or Cal Poly setting up a high quality home game for the 2008 season.

[Tod]

Yep, and where did UD end up last year. It's still plain weak as much as you try to deflect it...

Yes, it is a weak OOC schedule. So? Sometimes they're strong, sometimes not. You guys play Westchester every year, don't you?

Last year we had Iowa, SDSU and Cal Poly.

In 2005 we had SDSU, Cal Poly, Oregon and Fort Lewis.

I think you can blame Montana for a lot of things, like wanting so many home games and buying out return trips, but on the whole, we don't have weak OOC schedules.

[Proud Griz Man]

Seven home games are nice but if it requires having to play that kind of schedule it isn't worth it, a smart AD would have traveled to App St, NDSU, SDSU or Cal Poly setting up a high quality home game for the 2008 season.

You're 21 years old and an expert on what a smart AD would do? Please share more wisdom with us.

For instance, if UM traveled to NDSU in 2007, then NDSU gets accepted into a new conference starting 2008 and has to buy out the home game at Missoula.

[Ronbo]

Don't get me wrong I don't like the schedule. The Big Sky should be pretty good this year and we face tough teams in the playoffs. When all is said and done we'll face 5-6 top twenty FCS schools by season's end. Maybe more. Last year we played 7 top 20's plus a top tier I-A in 14 games.

[FargoBison]

You're 21 years old and an expert on what a smart AD would do? Please share more wisdom with us.

For instance, if UM traveled to NDSU in 2007, then NDSU gets accepted into a new conference starting 2008 and has to buy out the home game at Missoula.

NDSU would never buy out Montana, our 08 schedule still has plenty of holes in it as does our 09 schedule. The only games we have locked in our future schedules are Georgia Southern at home(not sure what year), Iowa State(09), at Sam Houston(09) and hopefully a game against Montana State at home in either 08 or 09. Lets not even get into Cal Poly's schedule because I am sure they could work you in quite easily, if the XDSU's leave they will have tons of room for Montana. Scheduling isn't exactly rocket science, I am sure any AD in the FCS would be willing to listen if Montana was offering a home and home and would travel first. You would hold all the cards and could easily ask for a huge buy-out amount be set or no buy-out at all.

[Appstate29]

Don't get me wrong I don't like the schedule. The Big Sky should be pretty good this year and we face tough teams in the playoffs. When all is said and done we'll face 5-6 top twenty FCS schools by season's end. Maybe more. Last year we played 7 top 20's plus a top tier I-A in 14 games.

at least you guys have a schedule out to bitch about. All we've got is maybe michigan as our OOC, we really don't know anything else about it, oh yeah AT Gardner Webb :bang:

[JBB]

I for one think its a smart schedule. After all, the auto bid is always there. Why bust the bank, why travel when you dont have too? 7 home games is going to go a long way at the bank and thats always good. :nod:

This schedule might be considered weak but the Grizz have a past that says this isnt a normal schedule. Fill up the bank accounts with this one and maybe another like it next year. Play for the auto bid and when the fans get tired of the weak home schedule go back out an impress them with the kind of schedule a lot of posters wish they had now. :bow:

[Grizzaholic]

at least you guys have a schedule out to bitch about. All we've got is maybe michigan as our OOC, we really don't know anything else about it, oh yeah AT Gardner Webb :bang:

I would rather be in your shoes waiting for a schedule to be released than to have the one we currently have. It is just a shame.

[putter]

Don't get me wrong I don't like the schedule. The Big Sky should be pretty good this year and we face tough teams in the playoffs. When all is said and done we'll face 5-6 top twenty FCS schools by season's end. Maybe more. Last year we played 7 top 20's plus a top tier I-A in 14 games.

And yet people still cry about our yearly weak schedule. :bawling: Funny how people bashed USD for not playing up and testing themselves - but- would you have bashed the team that played them because they are non-scholly? Can't have it both ways. Albany is growing their program and beat Delaware (regardless of how bad UD was) and Lehigh last year and finished 7-4. They are still an FCS team as is Southern Utah so I have no problem with playing them at all. Ft. Lewis is another matter as they should not be on the schedule and I hope that game is bought out for something better but it is not an overall weak schedule (shoot I am starting to think DetroitFlyer may have a point about open mindedness):eek:

[BearsCountry]

Montana scheduled $mart, if you sell out your stadium and bring in cash why go on the road? Heck, I wish Missouri State was in the same position Montana is.

[AppGuy04]

Montana has played at Northern Iowa (ask D1 Boy), McNeese State, Louisiana Tech, Sam Houston St., Maine, Hofstra, Cal Poly SLO, Fresno State, Wyoming, Washington State, Kansas State, Idaho, Oregon State (beat them in Corvallis twice), Oregon, Iowa, Minnesota, Nevada Las Vegas, North Texas, Hawaii, etc.
:nod:

Ofcourse you travel to FBS teams, thats what you're paid to do

[Tod]

Ofcourse you travel to FBS teams, thats what you're paid to do

LSU didn't pay you guys? :rolleyes:

[Maroons]

What ever happened to the early season road trip. First 5 games are home?? So homecomming.... How could it be called that if we never left?

lol xlolx

[BDKJMU]

Bottom line is weak schedule, esp OOC. Last yr JMU played Bloomsburg, who finished 10-1, only loss JMU, 12-2 overall, DII national semifinalist. Montana State lost to DII Chadron State, who finished the regular season 12-1, DII national quarterfinals. Both of those DIIs were as good/better than half your IAAs. Is Fort Lewis a really good DII team?

Any other Big Sky school went 8-3 on that schedule there'd be no playoff bid. Due to their tradition Montana possibly could if there was a situation like last yr when there wasn't enough 8-3 teams and you had Montana State get a bid at 7-4. But to assure themselves of a playoff spot Montana will have to go 9-2. But 9-2 would be no shot at a seed. For that they'd have to go 10-1. From what I've heard about what Montana has coming back, thats my prediction for them with this schedule, 10-1.

Its too bad that one of the 9 Mountain West or 9 WAC teams couldn't be scheduled, a team that Montana would have a decent chance of upsetting.

[Tod]

Bottom line is weak schedule, esp OOC. Last yr JMU played Bloomsburg, who finished 10-1, only loss JMU, 12-2 overall, DII national semifinalist. Montana State lost to DII Chadron State, who finished the regular season 12-1, DII national quarterfinals. Both of those DIIs were as good/better than half your IAAs. Is Fort Lewis a really good DII team?

Any other Big Sky school went 8-3 on that schedule there'd be no playoff bid. Due to their tradition Montana possibly could if there was a situation like last yr when there wasn't enough 8-3 teams and you had Montana State get a bid at 7-4. But to assure themselves of a playoff spot Montana will have to go 9-2. But 9-2 would be no shot at a seed. For that they'd have to go 10-1. From what I've heard about what Montana has coming back, thats my prediction for them with this schedule, 10-1.

Its too bad that one of the 9 Mountain West or 9 WAC teams couldn't be scheduled, a team that Montana would have a decent chance of upsetting.

Especially OOC? What is that supposed to mean? You must be another Big Sky basher. :nonono2:

[Grizzaholic]

For me, I would rather the team went 8-3 or around-abouts there and play a really good schedule. I mean atleast 2 preseason top 15 and maybe a FBS school. Atleast when the BSC starts you know where your teams stands. Then if you run into a team that is killing people left and right you should have the experience of the previous games to set up a good game plan and be ready for them.

:twocents:

[ChickenMan]

The Griz are probably getting a little too much heat for their OOC schedule. Southern Utah and Albany are OK... only Ft Lewis probably doesn't belong on the same field with Montana.

[Grizzaholic]

The Griz are probably getting a little too much heat for their OOC schedule. Southern Utah and Albany are OK... only Ft Lewis probably doesn't belong on the same field with Montana.

I don't want excuses made for our football team. I am pretty sure the players would like to play a couple of really good teams to start off the year. Something like App or a FBS school.

[Ronbo]

Bottom line is weak schedule, esp OOC. Last yr JMU played Bloomsburg, who finished 10-1, only loss JMU, 12-2 overall, DII national semifinalist. Montana State lost to DII Chadron State, who finished the regular season 12-1, DII national quarterfinals. Both of those DIIs were as good/better than half your IAAs. Is Fort Lewis a really good DII team?

Any other Big Sky school went 8-3 on that schedule there'd be no playoff bid. Due to their tradition Montana possibly could if there was a situation like last yr when there wasn't enough 8-3 teams and you had Montana State get a bid at 7-4. But to assure themselves of a playoff spot Montana will have to go 9-2. But 9-2 would be no shot at a seed. For that they'd have to go 10-1. From what I've heard about what Montana has coming back, thats my prediction for them with this schedule, 10-1.

Its too bad that one of the 9 Mountain West or 9 WAC teams couldn't be scheduled, a team that Montana would have a decent chance of upsetting.

Therein lies the problem, they know they might lose and won't talk to us. Except UNLV, I hear we have had talks with them.

[Ronbo]

The Griz are probably getting a little too much heat for their OOC schedule. Southern Utah and Albany are OK... only Ft Lewis probably doesn't belong on the same field with Montana.

Southern Utah returns 19 starters and played Poly 18-14 last season. Albany returns 17 starters and has an All American LB.

[Sundown]

I think some of you people need to spend more time READING the news.


UM’s difficulties with filling out its schedule can partially be attributed to the reluctance of some schools to sign a contract with UM because of a bad reputation earned by the program over the past few years. To help erase the million dollar deficit in the athletic department that was discovered in 2004, Montana has had to buy out a couple of opponents over the past few years in lieu of guarantee games with bigger universities, such as the University of Oregon in 2005 and the University of Iowa this past season.


“Because of our past history, we are probably not the most popular place to play,”


O’Day hopes that UM will be able to rebuild its reputation over the next few seasons. Montana plans to announce to the Board of Regents in March that the deficit has been erased, nearly 2.5 years ahead of schedule.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/index.php/sports/sports_article/last_piece_falls_into_place_for_football_schedule/

I don't know what a lot Montana/griz fans are thinking of, but it was always my understanding that the buy-outs, abundant home games and smaller (ie cheaper) schools was a result of and strategy to fix the deficit.

*shrugs*

[Peems]

I don't want excuses made for our football team. I am pretty sure the players would like to play a couple of really good teams to start off the year. Something like App or a FBS school.

Playing app. is a bit of a stretch. But, i agree i mean back in the hogan(former AD) we played at maine and at hofstra, we could be able to get some A-10 comp. home and home.

Also on the subject of home and home. We(the griz) should do it. Lot of people make the excuse of the Cat-Griz game. Saying that a year without the cat griz game is a year in which we need to have extra home games or a FBS game so we can make up for lost revenue. Personally, im getting a little fed up with the "debt" situation, the bookeeping was the problem back in the day, not Hogan. Jim O'Day is not a good AD, he may be a good person but not an AD.

[lizrdgizrd]

It's too bad we couldn't work out a home-and-home with you guys starting on 9/8 or 9/15.

[Sundown]

A debt is a debt and has to be payed off regardless of weather or not your "tired" of it. What should UM do? Just ignore it?

[GrizDen]

For me, I would rather the team went 8-3 or around-abouts there and play a really good schedule. I mean atleast 2 preseason top 15 and maybe a FBS school. Atleast when the BSC starts you know where your teams stands. Then if you run into a team that is killing people left and right you should have the experience of the previous games to set up a good game plan and be ready for them.

:twocents:


I second your thoughts....well said.:) :)

[Peems]

A debt is a debt and has to be payed off regardless of weather or not your "tired" of it. What should UM do? Just ignore it?

the debt really isnt there anymore, we took the big money games to get over the debt early. Also i don't understand how Hogan could do this but O'day can't, and dont give me the Hogan ran us into debt, it wasnt all Hogan.

[ucdtim17]

O’Day hopes that UM will be able to rebuild its reputation over the next few seasons. Montana plans to announce to the Board of Regents in March that the deficit has been erased, nearly 2.5 years ahead of schedule.

Hopefully this means you'll be fulfilling the home and home we supposedly have for '08-'09

[Sundown]

the debt really isnt there anymore, we took the big money games to get over the debt early.


Right.


Montana plans to announce to the Board of Regents in March that the deficit has been erased, nearly 2.5 years ahead of schedule.

When they announce this, it will be effective at the end of the '07 season.

[Mountaineer]

Ventured over to eGriz to see what they think of the schedule A dude named minot (1 post xlolx ) seems to sum it up pretty well.


It is definately about the money now. The goal of scheduling is to load up as many home games as possible, against as weak opponents as possible, to assure that the Griz will end up with a record good enough to guarantee the first home playoff game. If the Griz can win that first home plyoff game, they will out-bid all other teams to guarantee that they will play at home as long as they can keep winning. Unfortunately, winning home playoff games has not been easy for Bobby Hauck.

The Griz have never been able to win away playoff games. I think they may have won just once over the years, with many losses.

I do not know why fans want to go in the back door to try to get to Chattanooga. If we can't beat quality teams, especially on the road, during the regular season, then we are not really an elite program, like so many try to make us.

Every Southern Conference team and every Atlantic Conference team is forced to play 4-5 very tough teams each season, including some on the road. We seem to want to run from any away game which could be a possible loss. We bought out SDSU and Poly. The ruse was because of financial reasons. The real reason is that we didn't want to risk a loss to jade our chances of accomplishing yet another 11-1 or 10-2 record against weak teams.

Please tell me why Griz fans are so accepting of the current coaching staff/AD's trend towards these loading up the schedule with cream puffs? It is unbelieveable that you condone this trend.

It is also becoming a trend that Hauck's teams are unprepared to face solid competition come playoff time. This is a result of rarely being tested during the regular season. Is it any wonder that several UMASS fans were quoted as saying that they played several teams in their own conference who were better than Montana? Even with our gaudy 11-1 schedule.

If Hauck can not beat the better IAA teams during the regular season, how can he ever expect to beat them in the playoffs?

[griz37]

Ventured over to eGriz to see what they think of the schedule A dude named minot (1 post xlolx ) seems to sum it up pretty well.

Seems like he hit the nail right on the head.

[Tod]

Seems like he hit the nail right on the head.

Except for the "trend" part. Look at our last several years of OOC play. This year, yes, not the strongest (and again, if we replaced Ft Lewis with a quality FCS or even a FBS team, I'd be happy with it). But last year we had Iowa, SDSU and Cal Poly. In 2005 we had SDSU, Cal Poly, Oregon and Fort Lewis (yes, one D-II). 2004 was Maine, Hofstra, SHSU and UNC.

We don't have a "trend" of creampuff schedules. Now, next year we may, but as of right now, no.

:twocents:

[Peems]

Right.



When they announce this, it will be effective at the end of the '07 season.

like i said it really isnt there anymore.

[NDSUFREAK]

You're 21 years old and an expert on what a smart AD would do? Please share more wisdom with us.

For instance, if UM traveled to NDSU in 2007, then NDSU gets accepted into a new conference starting 2008 and has to buy out the home game at Missoula.

It would be called Karma.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

Why is everyone ragging on O'Day? He has been doing a great job. Its obvious why we would not go to Appy St. it would have cost way too much and when we are just getting out of debt it doesn't make any sense to drop a ton of money right away. On top of that everyone who is mad at O'Day for not scheduling the game would be even more mad if we lost our first game and the season went downhill from there. And just because I wake up every morning, take a bobby and wipe my hauck that does not mean Timmy's brother is doing too bad. He is winning isn't he?

[Proud Griz Man]

the debt really isnt there anymore, we took the big money games to get over the debt early. Also i don't understand how Hogan could do this but O'day can't, and dont give me the Hogan ran us into debt, it wasnt all Hogan.

What don't you understand about it: "Also i don't understand how Hogan could do this but O'day can't". Hogan resigned because of the athletic deficit and surrounding controversy. O'Day has to balance the budget and repay the past debts. The debt is there, and is scheduled to be fully repaid soon.

[AppGuy04]

I would be pissed as a Montana fan when your signature home game is Albany

[JBB]

the idea that the Griz are deploying a strategy to gain first a first round playoff home game and then if they win have the money from 8 home games to assure a 9th playoff game has come up on www.bisonsports.net.

It has to be one of the most elegant things I have seen. The last 2 playoff games will be huge. The OOC games will be fun and could be a test. This plan has it all. Way to go Montana! Its going to be interesting to see if it works, and if it does how long you can keep it going. :hurray:

[AppGuy04]

This is FBS football, it takes 4 games to win the championship, meaning you have to be battle tested. A cupcake schedule won't help with that IMO

[Grizzaholic]

Why is everyone ragging on O'Day? He has been doing a great job. Its obvious why we would not go to Appy St. it would have cost way too much and when we are just getting out of debt it doesn't make any sense to drop a ton of money right away. On top of that everyone who is mad at O'Day for not scheduling the game would be even more mad if we lost our first game and the season went downhill from there. And just because I wake up every morning, take a bobby and wipe my hauck that does not mean Timmy's brother is doing too bad. He is winning isn't he?

I can't think of one Griz fan that wouldn't pay top and I mean TOP dollar to see APP vs GRIZ. If we lost or won it would be worth every damn cent. Teams do lose from time to time. I have seen it!!! I know if I was the AD I would probably not be the best liked guy in the world but I would try my darnedest to schedule top flight FCS programs every year. And to say this one more time, with the squad we got coming to play on Saturdays this year we should be in the top 15 in SOS for FCS teams.

Every Griz fan that I have ever met, spoke to, conversed with online, and the like have never wanted to shy away from any big time program. The bigger they are the better the game should be. The only downfall to playing a BCS school is they might kick your ass and leave you with injuries, but if you come out victorious it is just that much sweeter.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

I'm sure the fans would pay top dollar, but they do not pick up the tab. It makes no sense to drop six digits right when you get out of debt for an away game. The Griz are not shying away from a game if they are using common sense.

[Tod]

This is FBS football, it takes 4 games to win the championship, meaning you have to be battle tested. A cupcake schedule won't help with that IMO

What's cupcake about it? We still have to make it through eight conference games, and the Big Sky ranks right up there year after year.

[Sundown]

like i said it really isnt there anymore.

After the END of the '07 season.

[Sundown]

This is FBS football, it takes 4 games to win the championship, meaning you have to be battle tested. A cupcake schedule won't help with that IMO

Thank you.

[GOKATS]

I can't think of one Griz fan that wouldn't pay top and I mean TOP dollar to see APP vs GRIZ. If we lost or won it would be worth every damn cent. Teams do lose from time to time. I have seen it!!! I know if I was the AD I would probably not be the best liked guy in the world but I would try my darnedest to schedule top flight FCS programs every year. And to say this one more time, with the squad we got coming to play on Saturdays this year we should be in the top 15 in SOS for FCS teams.
Every Griz fan that I have ever met, spoke to, conversed with online, and the like have never wanted to shy away from any big time program. The bigger they are the better the game should be. The only downfall to playing a BCS school is they might kick your ass and leave you with injuries, but if you come out victorious it is just that much sweeter.

Please tell me that the SOS comment was a joke.

[NE MT GRIZZ]

Please tell me that the SOS comment was a joke.

That is giving the Cats and Portland St. some credit as worthy opponents this year. Albany will also be a strong team at the end of the year.

Idaho St, and E. Wash will not be slouches this year either.

Top 15, I don't think so, top 25 is reasonable.

[GOKATS]

That is giving the Cats and Portland St. some credit as worthy opponents this year. Albany will also be a strong team at the end of the year.

Idaho St, and E. Wash will not be slouches this year either.

Top 15, I don't think so, top 25 is reasonable.

SOS with conference games is one factor (no brainer). SOS with the remaining three OOC games is another.

Top 25 SOS in the FCS- no way. Very wimpy schedule. Instead of 7 home games, the griz should have honored the SDSU commitment- SDSU made two trips to wa/griz (Yep it's been beat to death and I don't want to bring up a 'dead horse').

Hauck wants a guppy schedule so he can get enough wins to once again get in the playoffs- he's looking for another job!

Accept it.

[BisonBacker]

SOS with conference games is one factor (no brainer). SOS with the remaining three OOC games is another.

Top 25 SOS in the FCS- no way. Very wimpy schedule. Instead of 7 home games, the griz should have honored the SDSU commitment- SDSU made two trips to wa/griz (Yep it's been beat to death and I don't want to bring up a 'dead horse').

Hauck wants a guppy schedule so he can get enough wins to once again get in the playoffs- he's looking for another job!

Accept it.

Pot to Kettle Pot to Kettle :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Grizzaholic]

Please tell me that the SOS comment was a joke.

I didn't make myself very clear about that comment. I apologize. The way I meant to say it was:

We should be playing a top 15 SOS with the group of guys we have back this year. We will be lucky to be in the top 30 in SOS with the current schedule. I don't mean any disrespect to any of the teams on the schedule, but I think if you seem to be loaded on paper why not test the troops out and play the toughest people you can schedule. I am in no way saying we should get a top 5 SOS like PSU last year and schedule 3 BCS teams. But I would think that if the team is supposed to be as good as everybody seems to thing it will be why not play the best?

[Sir William]

2007 Schedule:
September 1 Southern Utah
September 8 Fort Lewis College
September 15 Open
September 22 Albany
September 29 Weber State
October 6 E. Washington
October 13 at Sacramento State
October 20 Northern Colorado
October 27 at Northern Arizona
November 3 Portland State
November 10 at Idaho State
November 17 at Montana State

Honestly, with this schedule, Montana goes 10-1. With Portland State at home, nobody comes close to beating the Griz until they travel to Bozeman, where (I believe) MSU wins the Big Sky. Montana earns an at-large bid to the playoffs, and potentially a top-4 seed.

On one hand, it might be savvy strategy. On the other hand, it's kinda sad that a great program like Montana puts together such a weak and dishonorable schedule.

App opens with Michigan, YSU plays Ohio State...Montana scraps with Fort Lewis after taking on SUU? No offense to Ft. Lewis or SUU or even Albany, but come on.

The Griz players aren't to blame, but they deserve better...as do the Griz fans.

[Grizzaholic]

Honestly, with this schedule, Montana goes 10-1. With Portland State at home, nobody comes close to beating the Griz until they travel to Bozeman, where (I believe) MSU wins the Big Sky. Montana earns an at-large bid to the playoffs, and potentially a top-4 seed.

On one hand, it might be savvy strategy. On the other hand, it's kinda sad that a great program like Montana puts together such a weak and dishonorable schedule.

App opens with Michigan, YSU plays Ohio State...Montana scraps with Fort Lewis after taking on SUU? No offense to Ft. Lewis or SUU or even Albany, but come on.

The Griz players aren't to blame, but they deserve better...as do the Griz fans.

Very well put.:thumbsup:

[Sundown]

App opens with Michigan, YSU plays Ohio State...Montana scraps with Fort Lewis after taking on SUU? No offense to Ft. Lewis or SUU or even Albany, but come on.

And this somehow invalidates UM playing Iowa last year or Oregon the year before?

You can call it "dishonorable" all you want. Your argument is made irrelevant by the athletic departments debt.

End of story.

It'll be payed off by the money saved in the '07 season's "dishonorable" schedule. And then y'all get shove your feet in your mouths and suck hard when the '08 schedule is released. :p

[Henwatcher]

Albany could be the toughest team on that schedule, but there isn't any doubt in my mind the Griz will win. Looks like the Griz are guaranteed at least 2 playoff games at home, once again.

[Sir William]

And this somehow invalidates UM playing Iowa last year or Oregon the year before?

Did I say that? Of course not. In fact, I thought I was being pretty objective, and at the same time, complimentary of Griz nation as a whole.

Sundown, take a laxative.xidiotx

[Grizzaholic]

Did I say that? Of course not. In fact, I thought I was being pretty objective, and at the same time, complimentary of Griz nation as a whole.

Sundown, take a laxative.xidiotx

Wouldn't that give him the *****s??? I think the word you were looking for was lude.

[Sundown]

Did I say that?

No. You implied it, because...


In fact, I thought I was being pretty objective, and at the same time, complimentary of Griz nation as a whole.

No, being "objective" means that you would have to clearly state the differences between this years 1-A schedule for App St. and YSU and UM's 1-A schedule over the last two years. Which you did not...


Montana scraps with Fort Lewis after taking on SUU? No offense to Ft. Lewis or SUU or even Albany, but come on.

Because you did not make mention in any way, shape or form of Montana's legitimate 1-A competition in the above post and instead chose to write in a derisive manner about UM's schedule this year, you were clearly not being objective.

However, I accept that you believed you were being complimentary none-the-less. Thanks.

God, I'm bored. And now here I am arguing on the internet. xcoffeex


take a laxative
What do you think is in my coffee? -------------------------------- ^ That ain't mocha flavoring.

[Sundown]

Honestly, with this schedule, Montana goes 10-1. With Portland State at home, nobody comes close to beating the Griz until they travel to Bozeman, where (I believe) MSU wins the Big Sky. Montana earns an at-large bid to the playoffs, and potentially a top-4 seed.

On one hand, it might be savvy strategy. On the other hand, it's kinda sad that a great program like Montana puts together such a weak and dishonorable schedule.



Unless you were talking about this part of your post...which I forgot about...

So, yeah. I owe you an apology. :cool:

[Sir William]

Unless you were talking about this part of your post...which I forgot about...

So, yeah. I owe you an apology. :cool:

Cool. Hey, I was pulling mighty hard for the Griz last year when they played Iowa, and expected them to pull the upset. Man, there ain't nothin' like knocking off one of the big boys!

[GOKATS]

I didn't make myself very clear about that comment. I apologize. The way I meant to say it was:

We should be playing a top 15 SOS with the group of guys we have back this year. We will be lucky to be in the top 30 in SOS with the current schedule. I don't mean any disrespect to any of the teams on the schedule, but I think if you seem to be loaded on paper why not test the troops out and play the toughest people you can schedule. I am in no way saying we should get a top 5 SOS like PSU last year and schedule 3 BCS teams. But I would think that if the team is supposed to be as good as everybody seems to thing it will be why not play the best?

Thanks for the clarification- makes sense now.

[Cleets]

such a weak and dishonorable schedule.

App opens with Michigan, YSU plays Ohio State...

Dishonorable...? xlolx

On the other note: I am so excited to watch the App. Michigan game I can hardly stand it...

and

YSU & Ohio State... !!! (Yeah!)

What fun....


-

[JALMOND]

Interesting schedule, Griz fans (wish we could schedule seven home games). As I've been painfully made aware of, SOS really does not mean much, as you still have to play the games. My take, hanging your hat on Albany being the toughest OOC game is not all that great. You have Portland State coming to your house this year, EWU does play very tough in Missoula and you have to go to Bozeman this year, yet an undefeated season is possible. Two things will be great to see this year in regards to the Griz, 1) If you do stub your toe somewhere this year and don't win the conference, where will the committee place you in seedings, and 2) If you do win all your games on the schedule, yet lose in the first or second round, what will Griznation think then.

[NE MT GRIZZ]

Interesting schedule, Griz fans (wish we could schedule seven home games). As I've been painfully made aware of, SOS really does not mean much, as you still have to play the games. My take, hanging your hat on Albany being the toughest OOC game is not all that great. You have Portland State coming to your house this year, EWU does play very tough in Missoula and you have to go to Bozeman this year, yet an undefeated season is possible. Two things will be great to see this year in regards to the Griz, 1) If you do stub your toe somewhere this year and don't win the conference, where will the committee place you in seedings, and 2) If you do win all your games on the schedule, yet lose in the first or second round, what will Griznation think then.


I think scenario number 2 is more likely, and Griznation will be pissed.
Hauck and the OC need to get the stuff together this season, or it will be an early exit from the playoffs.

[Tailbone]

Ventured over to eGriz to see what they think of the schedule A dude named minot (1 post xlolx ) seems to sum it up pretty well.
......It is also becoming a trend that Hauck's teams are unprepared to face solid competition come playoff time. This is a result of rarely being tested during the regular season. Is it any wonder that several UMASS fans were quoted as saying that they played several teams in their own conference who were better than Montana? Even with our gaudy 11-1 schedule.

If Hauck can not beat the better IAA teams during the regular season, how can he ever expect to beat them in the playoffs?

Let's see, the supposedly "weak" competition against which the Griz play in the regular season, has on two seperate (and recent) occasions removed the 1 seed from the playoffs at the 1 seed's home venue....doesn't sound like a poor test to me. As for the UMass fans determination of relative quality of competition.....a rather ludicrous assessment from the bleachers.
This statement woould be more credible if made by players but it would be an evaluation belied by facts... such as margin of victory against those "better" teams.

Hauck's record in the playoffs? I would guess that about 95% of FCS programs would be happy to have it.

[Tailbone]

Seems like he hit the nail right on the head.

Given your apparent willingness to accept the fallacies in Minot's posts....It would appear that he likewise hit you on the head.

[BigApp]

maybe this is the San Diego approach to making the playoffs? wait...that didn't work out so good...

[Tailbone]

...For instance, if UM traveled to NDSU in 2007, then NDSU gets accepted into a new conference starting 2008 and has to buy out the home game at Missoula.


It would be called Karma.

And the buy-out would therefore be justified, right Freak?

You seem to have a lot of animosity toward Montana for an injury you never received. If NDSU were to buy-out in order to accommodate your scheduling needs would the situation be different on the basis of "Karma" or would you be acquiring some of your own? I personally would love to see it happen....then the hypocrisy becomes very apparent - you see, something I learned as a seasoned observer (that means "old guy") of many programs, over many seasons, is that we all are guilty of the same things at one time or another. Your time will come, and your response to the situation (when the shoe is on the other foot) will be enlightening. Remember your words....they will come back to haunt you!

[Tailbone]

.......

It has to be one of the most elegant things I have seen. The last 2 playoff games will be huge. The OOC games will be fun and could be a test. This plan has it all. Way to go Montana! Its going to be interesting to see if it works, and if it does how long you can keep it going. :hurray:

Based on the apparent assumption that this the Montana M.O.........I'd say at least 14 years and counting.:D

[Tailbone]

...........
Very wimpy schedule. Instead of 7 home games, the griz should have honored the SDSU commitment- SDSU made two trips to wa/griz .......
As has been stated "pot and kettle"



.....Hauck wants a guppy schedule so he can get enough wins to once again get in the playoffs.......

Funny! Bobcatnation discussions suggested that this was the model to making the play-offs and perhaps the 'cats should do likewise. They did, and almost blew it by losing to Chadron....guess they really didn't understand how it's supposed to work, but what can you expect? ....they're bobcats :D (apologies to the non-Bozeman bobs).

[GOKATS]

As has been stated "pot and kettle"

The Cats schedule 6 home games. With 4 conference road games that leaves one OOC road game. The Cats bought out the NDSU road game to play at Texas A&M for a nice pay check. The Cats intend to honor the NDSU game in '08 or '09.

The griz bought out the SDSU game so they could schedule another guppy to make 7 home games. Is there any other team in the FCS that starts out the season with 5 home games?

[AZGrizFan]

Albany could be the toughest team on that schedule, but there isn't any doubt in my mind the Griz will win. Looks like the Griz are guaranteed at least 2 playoff games at home, once again.

Why? Because they beat your vaunted Hens last year?

WAFJ. Don't base your biased opinion on THAT. :twocents:

[CopperCat]

Looks like an 11-0 season in 2007 for the Grizz.:)

If it isn't at least 10-1, I will laugh. That is probably the weakest schedule UM has had in years. Interesting though.:eyebrow:

[Pard4Life]

Now that looks like a San Diego OOC... xlolx

Game with Albany should be interesting. The Great Danes won at Delaware and Lehigh last season, however those teams were a shell of their former selves.

And I wonder which Ivy... very likely not Princeton, Penn, Dartmouth (same damn schedule thru 2020), Harvard.

[Tailbone]

If it isn't at least 10-1, I will laugh. ......

Will that occur before, after, or between bouts of crying and lamentations over once again ending up at second fiddle in Monatana and the BSC - and watching the play-offs from your favorite stool at the local pub?
Be sure to reserve a big enough table to accommodate 60 or so of your closest friends (the football team) who will likely be joining you. :D

[Peems]

FYI the Griz have lost to Southern Utah at home before(we wont take them lightly)

[Griz Fan]

Let's see if I have it straight, we have a weak schedule because we owe a lot of money and don't know who to blame, so we schedule a bunch of home games to save money with some teams that don't have alot of scrap, hauck is looking for another job so he pads the schedule to boost his ratings, and we're losing face with other teams because we don't play fair on the home and home thing cause it is cutting into our already shallow pockets full of change, meanwhile the players are just out there for the hell of it because without all this distraction that everybody else is doing and their concern for the fans feelings that they don't want to lose even though the team has an OC that got it's butt kick in the semis last year and we even brought in a strong arm I-A quarterback to take care of any of these deficiencies when all along we had a competent quarterback that had to sit and watch all this. So maybe its the players that have the bleacher seats, cuz the way we talk it looks as if we have the box seats, the enclosed ones at that. How does everyone get so informed who knows Hauck?

[Pauly LB]

What a disappointing schedule !!! If that schedule does not generate 11-0 regular season, then the Griz should be most disappointed.

Now let's see -- Fort Lewis, Weber State, SUU, and Albany. At least they avoided another tough game versus Cal Poly and NDSU...

[Tod]

What a disappointing schedule !!! If that schedule does not generate 11-0 regular season, then the Griz should be most disappointed.

Now let's see -- Fort Lewis, Weber State, SUU, and Albany. At least they avoided another tough game versus Cal Poly and NDSU...

Why Weber State? :confused: :confused: :confused:

They are in our conference, you know. xidiotx

[putter]

Lets take a look....I am not happy with Ft. Lewis but.

App St. vs. Michigan
YSU vs. OSU

You really think the Buckeye fans and the Wolverine fans are jumping up and down at a chance to play a lower division foe? Do you think the BCS voters are going to give these teams extra points if they win by 21 or 28? No way. Playing down happens and every team does it. Southern Utah and Albany are in the FCS in case you forgot so whether they are the strongest teams in the nation (in your opinion) is really irrelevant. We should play all teams and I was hoping to get App on the schedule but maybe next year. Until then complain about Ft. Lewis if you want but nothing else.

[Peems]

Lets take a look....I am not happy with Ft. Lewis but.

App St. vs. Michigan
YSU vs. OSU

You really think the Buckeye fans and the Wolverine fans are jumping up and down at a chance to play a lower division foe? Do you think the BCS voters are going to give these teams extra points if they win by 21 or 28? No way. Playing down happens and every team does it. Southern Utah and Albany are in the FCS in case you forgot so whether they are the strongest teams in the nation (in your opinion) is really irrelevant. We should play all teams and I was hoping to get App on the schedule but maybe next year. Until then complain about Ft. Lewis if you want but nothing else.

OSU and Michigan do get BCS points for winning those games.

[lizrdgizrd]

OSU and Michigan do get BCS points for winning those games.
They don't get SOS points, true. But when they loose, it'll count against them. :nod:

[Peems]

They don't get SOS points, true. But when they loose, it'll count against them. :nod:

But IF they win they get it counted towards their required wins for a bowl game.

[lizrdgizrd]

But IF they win they get it counted towards their required wins for a bowl game.
True. :nod:

But if they're relying on an FCS win to get them to a bowl game then they're not going to be worrying about their SOS pulling them down in the BCS.

[CopperCat]

Will that occur before, after, or between bouts of crying and lamentations over once again ending up at second fiddle in Monatana and the BSC - and watching the play-offs from your favorite stool at the local pub?
Be sure to reserve a big enough table to accommodate 60 or so of your closest friends (the football team) who will likely be joining you. :D

The last time I checked, this thread was about MONTANA'S SCHEDULE, not about MSU's playoff hopes. Quit giving Griz fans a bad reputation by always being on the defensive. Your schedule is weak, and you know it. Now lets see what you can do with it. 10-1, 9-2, or 11-0? Maybe even 8-3? Who knows. Football season doesn't even start for another 7 months. Chill out Tailbone.

[JMU2004]

wow......just wow!!!

As a CAA fan, this kind of scheduling makes me sick, and it reaks of FBS trends. Yo, Montana, GET ON THE ROAD AND PLAY SOME BIG BOYS!

[SeattleGriz]

maybe this is the San Diego approach to making the playoffs? wait...that didn't work out so good...

Call it what you will BigApp, but I may just be confused by the fact that Montana actually MADE money at football. How fiscally sound is App? By the way, I have seen the thread about traveling in conference and that just isn't fair App can take the bus to almost everygame. Try flying to a few conference games and see what that does to your budget.

Also to all you who are bitchin'? Doesn't a team still need to win it all to get the championship? Who gives a crap if they had a patsy schedule? If a team wins it all, they win it all.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a game with Washington or Washington State, but that ain't happening as far as I know.

[Ronbo]

We have to fly to everyone but MSU and EWU.

[Proud Griz Man]

wow......just wow!!!

As a CAA fan, this kind of scheduling makes me sick, and it reaks of FBS trends. Yo, Montana, GET ON THE ROAD AND PLAY SOME BIG BOYS!


Posted once again for you:
Montana has played at Northern Iowa (ask D1 Boy), McNeese State, Louisiana Tech, Sam Houston St., Maine, Hofstra, Cal Poly SLO, Fresno State, Wyoming, Washington State, Kansas State, Idaho, Oregon State (beat them in Corvallis twice), Oregon, Iowa, Minnesota, Nevada Las Vegas, North Texas, Hawaii, etc.

[PantherRob82]

Posted once again for you:
Montana has played at Northern Iowa (ask D1 Boy)

20+ years ago. xidiotx

[BigApp]

that just isn't fair App can take the bus to almost everygame.


So, we're playing the blame geography game? Is that our fault?

You're the flagship of an entire state, we're (at best) 5th option in our state government for funding.

[OB55]

The totally unbiased view would be that UMs momentum in FCA football is what gives them the ability to stay home for non-conference games and regardless who goes to Missoula, that stadum will be full.;)

[GOKATS]

We have to fly to everyone but MSU and EWU.

The griz fly to Idaho St.? Why?

[GreatAppSt]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx :rolleyes: xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx :eek:

[AZGrizFan]

The griz fly to Idaho St.? Why?

Because, when you go to Pocatello, you want to be able to get out AS FAST AS POSSIBLE!!!! :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :nod: :nod: :nod: :eek: :eek:

[SeattleGriz]

So, we're playing the blame geography game? Is that our fault?

You're the flagship of an entire state, we're (at best) 5th option in our state government for funding.

Hardly, just brought it up so we can keep Apps travel in perspective in comparison to Montana.

I am just surprised to see how many people are railing on Montana's schedule when they know fully well we were using the football team to pull us out of a $1 million deficit.

Whats really sad about all the bitchin is that if Hampton were to win the NC, people would step back and say, "Wow, Hampton was tough". If Montana wins it all, people say, "They had a cupcake schedule, and this, and that..."

By the way, no disrespect to Hampton. I used them as an example because many complain about their strength of schedule and they actually seem like a team that could come out and win it all someday.

[Tailbone]

So, we're playing the blame geography game? Is that our fault?

You're the flagship of an entire state, we're (at best) 5th option in our state government for funding.

I once rode the bus from Phoenix to Missoula – about 1250 miles. The trip took 2 ½ days.
When I arrived in Missoula I was tired, thirsty, bloated and dirty…..at least that’s how I felt. If I were an athlete on my way to a competition, I wouldn’t have felt much like competing. I swore I’d never do that again.

The next time I made the trip I flew. The round trip ticket cost 435.00 X 1 (me), multiply the cost by 60 (football team) and the trip costs over 26,000.00. To play a conference game against NAU requires the Missoula to Phoenix plane ride – and a bus ride of over two hours to Flagstaff.
NAU is just one conference foe, most road trips are similar – perhaps not as far or expensive – but the difference is relatively insignificant. I would be surprised if App State’s total travel budget cost more than a single trip to NAU or SAC State and I would be astounded if Appy’s budget exceeded the cost of two such trips. Montana is roughly 600 miles across and 300 miles top to bottom, Montana State University is our closest conference foe and represents a 3-4 hour bus ride of about 200 miles. You can say that Montana is the state flagship school, it’s not. UM and MSU are peer institutions equal in the eyes of the population and more importantly the state board of regents – both schools are roughly equal in terms of state funding. Each school, because of the expanse of the state, has several (about a dozen total) satellite campuses spread hundreds of miles away from the host institutions in Missoula and Bozeman (they receive funding too).

You proclaim that App State is no higher than 5th on your state’s hierarchy of institutions as if that in some way mitigates the geographical disparity between our schools and renders the impact of geography to little more than an excuse for our scheduling policy. Get real.
Dividing the population of Montana (900,000) by the two universities yields a support base of about 450,000 people per school. North Carolina has 8 million people (in a much smaller area)….you do the math. I suspect that even at a priority of 5th amongst NC institutions you receive much greater support than either of the Montana schools. Incidentally, while on the topic of geography, I will address the issue of competition for athletes (the converse argument to being “the only game in town” – another supposed “advantage”). Ever hear of 8-man football? Do they play 8-man football in North Carolina? 8-man football is a game played in many towns across Montana (with eight men - clever huh)….why? Because the population centers are so small that a school cannot field enough athletes to form a full team. How would you like to recruit these small schools, hundreds of miles apart, to mine enough good athletes for a University football team (we do like to offer scholarships to our own Montana children). It makes for a rather interesting challenge on a limited recruiting budget. Enough of my rant, but I do admit to being frustrated at the lack of understanding by those more cloistered members of our subdivision. I think before you judge us so harshly, you should come on out for a visit…to see for yourself just how “wide open” the spaces are.

………I suggest you come by bus.



BTW: did you know that a full 1/2 of the entire population of the United States lies within a 500 mile radius of NC? (http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/NC/GEO/GEO.HTM)......that makes for a significantly larger recruiting pool than UM or MSU, and certainly has a significant impact on travel costs.

[SeattleGriz]

Ever hear of 8-man football? Do they play 8-man football in North Carolina? 8-man football is a game played in many towns across Montana (with eight men - clever huh)….why?

HA! I used to play 6 man football in Power, Montana. A high school must have less than 25 boys in the high school (9-12) to be eligible, we had 36 total students when I was in high school.

I never got recruited :( .

Good post Tailbone.

[Keeper]

Scheduling opportunities/costs for western US universities are
much more difficult, period, nuff said, end of story.
Besides, when was the last perceived soft-schedule that led to
a Championship? Anyone? Anyone?

Was it likewise bad "strategy" when Montana RECENTLY
took on Iowa, Oregon, or Hawaii, lost all yet still made the playoffs?

The Griz are successful because of the hard work of their administration,
students, faculty and supporters, and do not suffer from FBS envy
as many others seem to. Griz and Cats are and will always be the
big deal in big sky and that is just fine.

Also, let's be not so quick to put down UAlbany before the
game is played, or have you forgotten the banner of this site?

Lastly, how many of you who denegrate UM's 07 schedule as
too easy were also so eager to tune out San Diego in 06?
If the SOS worries one so much, UM takes the risk here,
not other conferences concerned with their playoff chances.

[Peems]

I once rode the bus from Phoenix to Missoula – about 1250 miles. The trip took 2 ½ days.
When I arrived in Missoula I was tired, thirsty, bloated and dirty…..at least that’s how I felt. If I were an athlete on my way to a competition, I wouldn’t have felt much like competing. I swore I’d never do that again.

The next time I made the trip I flew. The round trip ticket cost 435.00 X 1 (me), multiply the cost by 60 (football team) and the trip costs over 26,000.00. To play a conference game against NAU requires the Missoula to Phoenix plane ride – and a bus ride of over two hours to Flagstaff.
NAU is just one conference foe, most road trips are similar – perhaps not as far or expensive – but the difference is relatively insignificant. I would be surprised if App State’s total travel budget cost more than a single trip to NAU or SAC State and I would be astounded if Appy’s budget exceeded the cost of two such trips. Montana is roughly 600 miles across and 300 miles top to bottom, Montana State University is our closest conference foe and represents a 3-4 hour bus ride of about 200 miles. You can say that Montana is the state flagship school, it’s not. UM and MSU are peer institutions equal in the eyes of the population and more importantly the state board of regents – both schools are roughly equal in terms of state funding. Each school, because of the expanse of the state, has several (about a dozen total) satellite campuses spread hundreds of miles away from the host institutions in Missoula and Bozeman (they receive funding too).

You proclaim that App State is no higher than 5th on your state’s hierarchy of institutions as if that in some way mitigates the geographical disparity between our schools and renders the impact of geography to little more than an excuse for our scheduling policy. Get real.
Dividing the population of Montana (900,000) by the two universities yields a support base of about 450,000 people per school. North Carolina has 8 million people (in a much smaller area)….you do the math. I suspect that even at a priority of 5th amongst NC institutions you receive much greater support than either of the Montana schools. Incidentally, while on the topic of geography, I will address the issue of competition for athletes (the converse argument to being “the only game in town” – another supposed “advantage”). Ever hear of 8-man football? Do they play 8-man football in North Carolina? 8-man football is a game played in many towns across Montana (with eight men - clever huh)….why? Because the population centers are so small that a school cannot field enough athletes to form a full team. How would you like to recruit these small schools, hundreds of miles apart, to mine enough good athletes for a University football team (we do like to offer scholarships to our own Montana children). It makes for a rather interesting challenge on a limited recruiting budget. Enough of my rant, but I do admit to being frustrated at the lack of understanding by those more cloistered members of our subdivision. I think before you judge us so harshly, you should come on out for a visit…to see for yourself just how “wide open” the spaces are.

………I suggest you come by bus.



BTW: did you know that a full 1/2 of the entire population of the United States lies within a 500 mile radius of NC? (http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/NC/GEO/GEO.HTM)......that makes for a significantly larger recruiting pool than UM or MSU, and certainly has a significant impact on travel costs.

As someone else pointed out, we also play 6 man football in montana. we are the only state besides Texas to do so.

[AZGrizFan]

I once rode the bus from Phoenix to Missoula – about 1250 miles. The trip took 2 ½ days.
When I arrived in Missoula I was tired, thirsty, bloated and dirty…..at least that’s how I felt. If I were an athlete on my way to a competition, I wouldn’t have felt much like competing. I swore I’d never do that again.

The next time I made the trip I flew. The round trip ticket cost 435.00 X 1 (me), multiply the cost by 60 (football team) and the trip costs over 26,000.00. To play a conference game against NAU requires the Missoula to Phoenix plane ride – and a bus ride of over two hours to Flagstaff.
NAU is just one conference foe, most road trips are similar – perhaps not as far or expensive – but the difference is relatively insignificant. I would be surprised if App State’s total travel budget cost more than a single trip to NAU or SAC State and I would be astounded if Appy’s budget exceeded the cost of two such trips. Montana is roughly 600 miles across and 300 miles top to bottom, Montana State University is our closest conference foe and represents a 3-4 hour bus ride of about 200 miles. You can say that Montana is the state flagship school, it’s not. UM and MSU are peer institutions equal in the eyes of the population and more importantly the state board of regents – both schools are roughly equal in terms of state funding. Each school, because of the expanse of the state, has several (about a dozen total) satellite campuses spread hundreds of miles away from the host institutions in Missoula and Bozeman (they receive funding too).

You proclaim that App State is no higher than 5th on your state’s hierarchy of institutions as if that in some way mitigates the geographical disparity between our schools and renders the impact of geography to little more than an excuse for our scheduling policy. Get real.
Dividing the population of Montana (900,000) by the two universities yields a support base of about 450,000 people per school. North Carolina has 8 million people (in a much smaller area)….you do the math. I suspect that even at a priority of 5th amongst NC institutions you receive much greater support than either of the Montana schools. Incidentally, while on the topic of geography, I will address the issue of competition for athletes (the converse argument to being “the only game in town” – another supposed “advantage”). Ever hear of 8-man football? Do they play 8-man football in North Carolina? 8-man football is a game played in many towns across Montana (with eight men - clever huh)….why? Because the population centers are so small that a school cannot field enough athletes to form a full team. How would you like to recruit these small schools, hundreds of miles apart, to mine enough good athletes for a University football team (we do like to offer scholarships to our own Montana children). It makes for a rather interesting challenge on a limited recruiting budget. Enough of my rant, but I do admit to being frustrated at the lack of understanding by those more cloistered members of our subdivision. I think before you judge us so harshly, you should come on out for a visit…to see for yourself just how “wide open” the spaces are.

………I suggest you come by bus.



BTW: did you know that a full 1/2 of the entire population of the United States lies within a 500 mile radius of NC? (http://statelibrary.dcr.state.nc.us/NC/GEO/GEO.HTM)......that makes for a significantly larger recruiting pool than UM or MSU, and certainly has a significant impact on travel costs.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx
Game. Set. Match. :bow: :bow: :bow: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

Tailbone----you can buy 'em books, but all they'll do is eat the covers! :read: :read: :read:

[CrazyCat]

That was the best reply to any post I have ever read. You get an honorary oscar for best response to an uniformed post.

[AZGrizFan]

That was the best reply to any post I have ever read. You get an honorary oscar for best response to an uniformed post.

Yep. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: $441 PER PERSON to fly from Missoula to Sioux Falls, SD. Then theres still, what, an hour bus ride?
Plus 2 nights hotel and meals for 60-odd people? And do this 5-6 times a year....

I guess they could charter 3 busses and DRIVE the 1100 miles.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[bigskyrocks]

complain all you want about montana's schedule you wont change it, and also i really dont see much wrong with it, for example look at wisconsin last yr whoed they play, Buffal, san Diego st, western illinois, and bowling green, adn yet still beat arkansas in the capitol one bowl game and tied with OSU for the best record in teh big ten (overall record) oh what about boise, who they play that was top 15, (maybe oregon st) but they still ended up beating oklahoma (with style might i add), and not that it would happen but what would all you griz fans want, lots of 7-4 8-3 seasons (missing the playoffs) or would you rather 9-2 10-1 11-0 seasons (with home playoff games) i personally would perfer the 11-0. and just to throw this out there montana has only lost 19 home games in Wa Griz total (including playoffs) how many teams can say that for their own home stadium.

[AZGrizFan]

complain all you want about montana's schedule you wont change it, and also i really dont see much wrong with it, for example look at wisconsin last yr whoed they play, Buffal, san Diego st, western illinois, and bowling green, adn yet still beat arkansas in the capitol one bowl game and tied with OSU for the best record in teh big ten (overall record) oh what about boise, who they play that was top 15, (maybe oregon st) but they still ended up beating oklahoma (with style might i add), and not that it would happen but what would all you griz fans want, lots of 7-4 8-3 seasons (missing the playoffs) or would you rather 9-2 10-1 11-0 seasons (with home playoff games) i personally would perfer the 11-0. and just to throw this out there montana has only lost 19 home games in Wa Griz total (including playoffs) how many teams can say that for their own home stadium.

Nice first post. :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Throw in a little punctuation occasionally, to break things up. :eyebrow: What, did you send this on your blackberry? :read:

[Tailbone]

For what it's worth......

North Carolina's population density is 2000 people per square mile - Montana's is 6.

.....that's 31 full scholarship FCS teams (PER SQUARE MILE) to one 6 man football team for Montana in the same space.
I didn't know 6 man football was played in Montana (or anywhere else for that matter). I do know that many students in some of the out-of-the-way places in Montana spend over 2 hours each day commuting to school and back by bus - excluding the time spent picking up students.

Actually, when you think about it, it's an accomplishment to even remain fiscally viable - let alone achieve the kind of success we have, given the demographics of the region.

I guess it's OK if those who don't understand the situation feel compelled to bitch about the way we do or have done things, but I wish they could see that what they consider decisions of convenience - may actually be matters of survival. Athletics, after all, are of secondary importance to the university's charter. Academics can (and does) suffer from similar geographic (and demographic) disadvantages.

[Peems]

For what it's worth......

North Carolina's population density is 2000 people per square mile - Montana's is 6.

.....that's 31 full scholarship FCS teams (PER SQUARE MILE) to one 6 man football team for Montana in the same space.
I didn't know 6 man football was played in Montana (or anywhere else for that matter). I do know that many students in some of the out-of-the-way places in Montana spend over 2 hours each day commuting to school and back by bus - excluding the time spent picking up students.

Actually, when you think about it, it's an accomplishment to even remain fiscally viable - let alone achieve the kind of success we have, given the demographics of the region.

I guess it's OK if those who don't understand the situation feel compelled to bitch about the way we do or have done things, but I wish they could see that what they consider decisions of convenience - may actually be matters of survival. Athletics, after all, are of secondary importance to the university's charter. Academics can (and does) suffer from similar geographic (and demographic) disadvantages.

good info. here is some more on 6 man football. (it appears i was wrong, there are more states besides Texas and Montana that play 6 man)

"Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Montana and New Mexico." end of 4th paragraph

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/HiPlainsDrifter/2005/12/27/6Man_FootballNot_Everything_in_Texas_is_Big

[Tailbone]

I think the disparity in population density also says a lot for the kind of fan support the Montana schools receive (UofM in particular). To consistently pack a 23,000 seat stadium, given the population density of Montana, implies a great deal of travel for a significant number of fans.

....and, for those who dislike the Griz schedule........the quality of competition HAS to get better in the short term or the UofM runs the risk of losing it's drawing power over the long term. a 1000 mile round trip, 7 times a year (for some fans) is no small inconvenience.

UM being a Flagship or not, I wonder how many App fans (would) travel 7000 miles/year to watch the mountaineers (or Duke...or NC....or NC state...or.....).

The grief the Griz are receiving is disproportionate to what they deserve.

[NE MT GRIZZ]

"Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado, Montana and New Mexico." end of 4th paragraph

2 wyoming teams and 1 Idaho team play in the Montana 6-man league.

[Tailbone]

So, we're playing the blame geography game? Is that our fault?

You're the flagship of an entire state, we're (at best) 5th option in our state government for funding.

C'mon BigApp.....no comment?

[BigApp]

I once rode the bus from Phoenix to Missoula – about 1250 miles. The trip took 2 ½ days.


Maybe you should find another bus carrier? :rolleyes:

so, big bad tough grizzly, every thing is bigger out here, Montana fans are still whining about travel costs?

If it's that big a concern and pain for you, why don't you petition your school to join the North Central, Dakota Athletic or Frontier Conference? Otherwise, stop complaining about the costs of travel.

I've traveled roundtrip 9,000 miles to see the Apps play ONE game. There are other trips I've taken that each exceeded 1600, 1700, 1800, 4400 miles each, among others. I can personally attest there are many Appfans who either do or would travel 7,000 miles in a season to see us play.

[Tailbone]

Maybe you should find another bus carrier? :rolleyes:

It was Greyhound...We don't have the luxury of 60 different carriers out here - the Bus lines have their own economics to deal with.


so, big bad tough grizzly, every thing is bigger out here, Montana fans are still whining about travel costs?

Not whining. Explaining why our schedule is what it is and why you should not apply your filters (prejudice) to our logistical problems.


If it's that big a concern and pain for you, why don't you petition your school to join the North Central, Dakota Athletic or Frontier Conference? Otherwise, stop complaining about the costs of travel.

I think our leaving the FCS would have greater consequences than you imagine. Anyway, we're more likely to move up than down.


I've traveled roundtrip 9,000 miles to see the Apps play ONE game. There are other trips I've taken that each exceeded 1600, 1700, 1800, 4400 miles each, among others. I can personally attest there are many Appfans who either do or would travel 7,000 miles in a season to see us play.

As for your dedication, it's laudable. Your travel occured over what period of time and how often? are you including play-off trips? those were absent in my calculation and are more frequent (and would likely be farther) for Griz fans than App fans. How many (other App fans) are "many"? I suspect there are few who would make a 1000 mile trip for each of 7 weeks out of 10-11....I wouldn't - especially since all Griz games are televised throughout the region (and available anywhere via satellite). As for "many" App fans that do make such trips.....It's a good trick since your farthest conference foe is about as far away as our closest (your math is questionable) - that, and the fact that 1/2 the population of the US is within 500 miles of NC. I would hazard a guess that the majority of your fans (at least those in the stadium) are within the borders of NC.

Apples and oranges, you just refuse to see it.

[lizrdgizrd]

I think our leaving the FCS would have greater consequences than you imagine.
What consequences do you imagine your leaving FCS would have? The end of the FCS as we know it?!?!?! :eek: xlolx

But really, what horrible consequences do you see occurring if UM left FCS?

[NE MT GRIZZ]

What consequences do you imagine your leaving FCS would have? The end of the FCS as we know it?!?!?! :eek: xlolx

But really, what horrible consequences do you see occurring if UM left FCS?
The Big Sky Conference would lose almost half its attendance.

Substitute a cream puff playoff team instead of the Griz

Lose the best stadium in FCS

Lose the Best Rivalry in FCS- Cat-Griz

I'm sure there are many more

[lizrdgizrd]

The Big Sky Conference would lose almost half its attendance.

Substitute a cream puff playoff team instead of the Griz

Lose the best stadium in FCS

Lose the Best Rivalry in FCS- Cat-Griz

I'm sure there are many more
These are not things that are unimaginable. The Big Sky would take a hit, but to claim that a cream puff team would make the playoffs is a bit of an exageration. For example, this year we'd likely have had PSU & MSU instead of UM & MSU. PSU is a cream puff? :eyebrow: :nono:

Best stadium? Probably. Most hyped on AGS? Definately! xlolx xlolx xlolx

Best rivalry in FCS? I'm sure others would disagree. :nod:

[RabidRabbit]

What consequences do you imagine your leaving FCS would have? The end of the FCS as we know it?!?!?! :eek: xlolx

But really, what horrible consequences do you see occurring if UM left FCS?

Montana IS the BIG SKY state. :read:

Without Montana/Montana St in Big Sky, the Big Sky changes significantly, maybe even splits, or allows football only members?

[CopperCat]

Maybe you should find another bus carrier? :rolleyes:

so, big bad tough grizzly, every thing is bigger out here, Montana fans are still whining about travel costs?

If it's that big a concern and pain for you, why don't you petition your school to join the North Central, Dakota Athletic or Frontier Conference? Otherwise, stop complaining about the costs of travel.

I've traveled roundtrip 9,000 miles to see the Apps play ONE game. There are other trips I've taken that each exceeded 1600, 1700, 1800, 4400 miles each, among others. I can personally attest there are many Appfans who either do or would travel 7,000 miles in a season to see us play.

Maybe you and your fellow fans have that kind of money to go wherever and watch your team play. But being a fan of my team (and a student with a job that isn't that great) I know that I could not possibly afford to travel 7,000 friggin' miles in ONE SEASON to watch 5 games. If you are going to scold UM fans for complaining about travel costs, think about this. You live in an area where airports, bus depots, train depots, and other transportation hubs are common. And what does that do? It decreases the cost of transportation due to economic competition. Out here, there isn't much competition. We don't have 737's or DC-10's flying in and out of Missoula every day. We have 50-75 passenger regional jets that have to fly to a bigger hub. As of right now, for two people to get from Missoula to Flagstaff to see NAU play Montana on October 27 would be about $550 a piece, not including the bus ride from Phoenix to Flagstaff or the hotel room. Figure the same thing for a game @ Sac State. The point here is that you are being ridiculously ignorant for coming down on us for travel costs. Travel is expensive out West because things are further apart, and they are more isolated. I know that somebody said something about UM not being able to make it to Boone and vice versa because travel costs were way too high.:bang: :bang: Lighten up a bit would ya please?

[Peems]

Maybe you and your fellow fans have that kind of money to go wherever and watch your team play. But being a fan of my team (and a student with a job that isn't that great) I know that I could not possibly afford to travel 7,000 friggin' miles in ONE SEASON to watch 5 games. If you are going to scold UM fans for complaining about travel costs, think about this. You live in an area where airports, bus depots, train depots, and other transportation hubs are common. And what does that do? It decreases the cost of transportation due to economic competition. Out here, there isn't much competition. We don't have 737's or DC-10's flying in and out of Missoula every day. We have 50-75 passenger regional jets that have to fly to a bigger hub. As of right now, for two people to get from Missoula to Flagstaff to see NAU play Montana on October 27 would be about $550 a piece, not including the bus ride from Phoenix to Flagstaff or the hotel room. Figure the same thing for a game @ Sac State. The point here is that you are being ridiculously ignorant for coming down on us for travel costs. Travel is expensive out West because things are further apart, and they are more isolated. I know that somebody said something about UM not being able to make it to Boone and vice versa because travel costs were way too high.:bang: :bang: Lighten up a bit would ya please?

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :nonono2: (the last one is just because you are a bobcat:p )

[Tailbone]

What consequences do you imagine your leaving FCS would have? The end of the FCS as we know it?!?!?! :eek: xlolx

But really, what horrible consequences do you see occurring if UM left FCS?

The FCS attendance figures show that only 11 programs draw 15,000 fans or better (average) and of that 11, only 4 programs average 20,000 or more fans.
4 of the top 15 schools don’t participate in the play-offs and only 4-6 teams can be considered regular participants. The remaining play-off spots are usually filled by programs drawing 10,000 fans or less.
Montana is 1 of the top 4, and has the largest average attendance (the others are App, Delaware, and YSU).

Since 1995 Delaware has been to the play-offs 6 times, YSU – 4 times, App – 8 times, Montana 12 times.

The play-offs are funded by the participating schools (via the NCAA) – the money is a by-product of attendance. Montana (by virtue of their 14 straight appearances) has contributed a significant amount of money that in turn helps fund the play-offs. The loss of Griz dollars (or any of the top 4 schools) would be felt.

Additionally, The Montana schools are probably a package - if UM goes, MSU probably does too (MSU is 9th in ave. attendance).
It’s my opinion that FCS can ill afford to lose any of the top 4, let alone 2 of the top 10.

The impact of the loss of either or both of the Montana schools would likely be measured in dollars and mind-share (see how much Griz merchandise is sold).

No, the loss of the Montana schools would not be catastrophic, but it would be significant.

[Tod]

The Big Sky Conference would lose almost half its attendance.

Substitute a cream puff playoff team instead of the Griz

Lose the best stadium in FCS

Lose the Best Rivalry in FCS- Cat-Griz

I'm sure there are many more

Now, now. Don't let your head get too big. There are several rivalries that, it can be argued, are as big, or bigger than UM/MSU.

"Best" stadium is an opinion, not a fact.

No way a cream puff gets into the playoffs.

[Tod]

The FCS attendance figures show that only 11 programs draw 15,000 fans or better (average) and of that 11, only 4 programs average 20,000 or more fans.
4 of the top 15 schools don’t participate in the play-offs and only 4-6 teams can be considered regular participants. The remaining play-off spots are usually filled by programs drawing 10,000 fans or less.
Montana is 1 of the top 4, and has the largest average attendance (the others are App, Delaware, and YSU).

Since 1995 Delaware has been to the play-offs 6 times, YSU – 4 times, App – 8 times, Montana 12 times.

The play-offs are funded by the participating schools (via the NCAA) – the money is a by-product of attendance. Montana (by virtue of their 14 straight appearances) has contributed a significant amount of money that in turn helps fund the play-offs. The loss of Griz dollars (or any of the top 4 schools) would be felt.

Additionally, The Montana schools are probably a package - if UM goes, MSU probably does too (MSU is 9th in ave. attendance).
It’s my opinion that FCS can ill afford to lose any of the top 4, let alone 2 of the top 10.

The impact of the loss of either or both of the Montana schools would likely be measured in dollars and mind-share (see how much Griz merchandise is sold).

No, the loss of the Montana schools would not be catastrophic, but it would be significant.

Good post. It would be a big deal to the Big Sky and, if MSU left too, then it would be a big deal to FCS, just as if a couple of key teams left several conferences/leagues.

But all in all, FCS life would go on.

:twocents:

[NE MT GRIZZ]

Now, now. Don't let your head get too big. There are several rivalries that, it can be argued, are as big, or bigger than UM/MSU. .


I don't recall any other FCS rivalries being mentioned on ESPN, but I hear about "Brawl of the Wild" every year.:thumbsup:

[EastCoast]

Montana was trying to schedule Dartmouth. (Several supporters of Montana athletics are apparently former Dartmouth football players who live Montana. There is also a Montana kid currently playing for Dartmouth.) Dartmouth was interested, and made at least a half-hearted attempt to get out of their New Hampshire game. New Hampshire wasn't interested in letting Dartmouth out of the game, even though a list of available teams within driving distance were given to them. Ironically, I believe Albany was on the list of available teams mentioned to New Hampshire as a replacement. The Montana AD said he was interested in scheduling an Ivy game because he'd like the Montana team and fans to experience an Ivy school.

[AZGrizFan]

Now, now. Don't let your head get too big. There are several rivalries that, it can be argued, are as big, or bigger than UM/MSU.

"Best" stadium is an opinion, not a fact.

No way a cream puff gets into the playoffs.

Quiet, Tod.....they're on a roll!

[dbackjon]

I don't recall any other FCS rivalries being mentioned on ESPN, but I hear about "Brawl of the Wild" every year.:thumbsup:

Lehigh/Lafayette

Yale/Harvard

Both get far more publicity than UM/MSU.

[lizrdgizrd]

The play-offs are funded by the participating schools (via the NCAA) – the money is a by-product of attendance. Montana (by virtue of their 14 straight appearances) has contributed a significant amount of money that in turn helps fund the play-offs. The loss of Griz dollars (or any of the top 4 schools) would be felt.
As you point out, the playoffs are funded by the participating schools. So if Montana were to merely miss the playoffs instead of leaving FCS do you suppose the impact would be the same financially? I think it more likely that the NCAA would compensate via higher bid prices.


Additionally, The Montana schools are probably a package - if UM goes, MSU probably does too (MSU is 9th in ave. attendance).
It’s my opinion that FCS can ill afford to lose any of the top 4, let alone 2 of the top 10.
I'm not so sure that FCS requires any of the top 4 teams. It's lost top teams before and managed to survive (Marshall comes to mind).


The impact of the loss of either or both of the Montana schools would likely be measured in dollars and mind-share (see how much Griz merchandise is sold).
Doesn't the NCAA receive the licensing money from merchandise sales? If you were to go NAIA or drop football would be the only way that money stops flowing to the NCAA.


No, the loss of the Montana schools would not be catastrophic, but it would be significant.
I think we agree that it would be a significant loss. It would certainly be a loss of quality competition. :nod:

[Peems]

Lehigh/Lafayette

Yale/Harvard

Both get far more publicity than UM/MSU.

one year didnt gameday go to the Penn game? I remember Lee Corso dressing up like Ben Franklin.

[Tailbone]

The play-offs are funded by the participating schools (via the NCAA) – the money is a by-product of attendance. Montana (by virtue of their 14 straight appearances) has contributed a significant amount of money that in turn helps fund the play-offs. The loss of Griz dollars (or any of the top 4 schools) would be felt.
As you point out, the playoffs are funded by the participating schools. So if Montana were to merely miss the playoffs instead of leaving FCS do you suppose the impact would be the same financially? I think it more likely that the NCAA would compensate via higher bid prices.

Revenues come from three main sources: Gate receipts, Guarantees from seeded teams, Bids from unseeded teams. Guarantees are fixed by rule for each round, The NCAA collects 75% of gate receipts, and Bids are just that - bids...highest bid gets the home game, the NCAA does not set minimum bid (to my knowledge). That's the point. Gate receipts and hosting bids comprise the major portion of play-off income. The NCAA (and FCS play-offs) won't go broke if any of the big 4 miss the play-offs (see the list of particpation since 1995 - some of the big 4 have missed the post season). That being the case, it is important that SOME of the top 4 draws do make the play-offs. No team has been more consistent in that regard than Montana.





Additionally, The Montana schools are probably a package - if UM goes, MSU probably does too (MSU is 9th in ave. attendance).
It’s my opinion that FCS can ill afford to lose any of the top 4, let alone 2 of the top 10.
I'm not so sure that FCS requires any of the top 4 teams. It's lost top teams before and managed to survive (Marshall comes to mind).

Note that I said the loss would not be catastrophic, but there would be some financial impact.





The impact of the loss of either or both of the Montana schools would likely be measured in dollars and mind-share (see how much Griz merchandise is sold).
Doesn't the NCAA receive the licensing money from merchandise sales? If you were to go NAIA or drop football would be the only way that money stops flowing to the NCAA.

Not the point. When I think of FCS, a few teams come to mind: Georgia Southern, Delaware, App State, Montana, McNeese, and some Ivys. These are the teams that define the sub-division (for me - and if merchandise sales are any indication, for many others as well.....that's the mind share to which I refer) others may be more aware of different teams, but I suspect all would agree that Montana belongs in the defining group.





No, the loss of the Montana schools would not be catastrophic, but it would be significant.
I think we agree that it would be a significant loss. It would certainly be a loss of quality competition.

Thanks. Beyond the top 20 teams, there seems to be precious little of that.

FWIW: There is a great deal of resistance from the Griz fans to any notion of moving out of the FCS sub-division. Remaining financially viable is critical to remaining in FCS. Travel expenses would likely be reduced by a move to FBS, which brings us back to the point of this thread.....we're doing what we have to (schedule) in order to remain fiscally sound. Sorry if some don't like it (myself included) but it is for the long term good of the program and the sub-division.

[lizrdgizrd]

FWIW: There is a great deal of resistance from the Griz fans to any notion of moving out of the FCS sub-division. Remaining financially viable is critical to remaining in FCS. Travel expenses would likely be reduced by a move to FBS, which brings us back to the point of this thread.....we're doing what we have to (schedule) in order to remain fiscally sound. Sorry if some don't like it (myself included) but it is for the long term good of the program and the sub-division.
Would it be in Montana's long-term interest to look toward a move to FBS? To offset reduced travel costs, you'd have increased scholarships and entrance costs for a new conference (provided the Big Sky doesn't all jump together). Who would be your most likely opponents in FBS and would the additional exposure be enough to offset the costs?

[Tailbone]

Would it be in Montana's long-term interest to look toward a move to FBS? To offset reduced travel costs, you'd have increased scholarships and entrance costs for a new conference (provided the Big Sky doesn't all jump together). Who would be your most likely opponents in FBS and would the additional exposure be enough to offset the costs?

There has been some debate but I don't know if a formal study has been done.
Many of our traditional rivals have already moved - Boise State, Idaho, Nevada - Their success in I-AA just prior to moving up was similar to our current success. The best fit for UM is probably the WAC.

Some costs would be reduced (travel), some would rise (scholarships, Title IX, etc.) Income could also grow as a result of better (more interesting) competition via increased ticket prices, revenue sharing for TV and post season play by UM or conference mates.

Current thinking seems to be that because of the geographical and demographic issues already mentioned, in addition to the lack of industry (and its sponsorship), Montana schools may not be able to afford a move....particularly if fan interest drops as a result of fewer wins and fewer home games (we'd be in the same boat as NDSU - unable to get games at home because we are newcomers without influence).

Most fans, I think, prefer being a big dog and don't care to move but of course......that's not our decision to make.

[oldSLOguy]

the debt really isnt there anymore, we took the big money games to get over the debt early. Also i don't understand how Hogan could do this but O'day can't, and dont give me the Hogan ran us into debt, it wasnt all Hogan.

(Sundown): A debt is a debt and has to be payed off regardless of weather or not your "tired" of it. What should UM do? Just ignore it?

Let's see if I understand this (maybe I'll make this burn a little so it sticks in your craw)! Your pompous program overspent it's means presumably to achieve greater grandeur and ended-up in debt. Rather than cut spending and ask other schools to help temporarily by restructuring their scheduled RETURN games with you (i.e. push out your return game to South Dakota State, for example, a year or two until you recover) your response is that you should essentially just dump your obligations to them (Pity the fools for thinking you were honorable and thus not writing in a nasty buy out clause)! Let their programs suffer by losing their home games and revenue. By chance does you business school have ties with USU (Univ. of the Soviet Union). If I were an FCS AD I would no longer schedule U of M unless the terms were very favorable. Schedule Missoula HS for your home games or go on the road to FBS schools. IMHO

[Peems]

Let's see if I understand this (maybe I'll make this burn a little so it sticks in your craw)! Your pompous program overspent it's means presumably to achieve greater grandeur and ended-up in debt. Rather than cut spending and ask other schools to help temporarily by restructuring their scheduled RETURN games with you (i.e. push out your return game to South Dakota State, for example, a year or two until you recover) your response is that you should essentially just dump your obligations to them (Pity the fools for thinking you were honorable and thus not writing in a nasty buy out clause)! Let their programs suffer by losing their home games and revenue. By chance does you business school have ties with USU (Univ. of the Soviet Union). If I were an FCS AD I would no longer schedule U of M unless the terms were very favorable. Schedule Missoula HS for your home games or go on the road to FBS schools. IMHO

Well you missed my point, which was...WHY CANT WE SCHEDULE HOME AND HOME WITH BIG TIME FCS SCHOOLS? WAYNE HOGAN DID IT? WHY CANT JIM O'DAY? I SAID DONT GIVE ME THAT DEBT CRAP, BECAUSE I DONT BELIEVE IT. I AGREE. ALSO TO SHOW HOW UPSET I AM WITH OUR AD, HE RECENTLY ANNOUNCED WE WERE OUT OF DEBT, YET WE CAN'T SCHEDULE HOME AND HOMES? I'M PISSED WITH OUR AD, AND YOU NEED TO REALIZE IM A FAN NOT THE AD. READ THIS THREAD: http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20357

So sorry for typing in caps, but you attack me when i clearly agree with your statements. To blame our old AD is plain wrong, Wayne Hogan was a great AD, it was bookkeeping errors that put us in our problem. I truly hope the Cal Poly/UM game can get going again, and I hope it starts in SLO:thumbsup:

[Tailbone]

Let's see if I understand this (maybe I'll make this burn a little so it sticks in your craw)! Your pompous program overspent it's means presumably to achieve greater grandeur and ended-up in debt.

Actually, the overspending was a bookkeeping error resulting in large part from cross country travel to games with Maine, etc. It has nothing to do with desire for grandeur....Clown.
As for the accusation of pompousness....I'll chalk that up to Griz envy.


Rather than cut spending and ask other schools to help temporarily by restructuring their scheduled RETURN games with you (i.e. push out your return game to South Dakota State, for example, a year or two until you recover) your response is that you should essentially just dump your obligations to them (Pity the fools for thinking you were honorable and thus not writing in a nasty buy out clause)!

Our obligation? We accepted one of the options offered us - the buy-out.
That's called "meeting our obligation". You appear to be one of those people who build in a flood plain because it hasn't flooded in 25 years, then screams, cries, pisses, and moans because it floods. The script you are running is called (by Transactional Analysts) "oh poor me", "I'd be farther ahead if only...." (you hadn't screwed me, everyone wasn't against me, etc.) also known as the "blame game" - very self-destructive attitude by the way. For someone who is passing himself off as an OLDsloGUY....you show neither the grace nor the wisdom that should come with age. :bawling:


Let their programs suffer by losing their home games and revenue. By chance does you business school have ties with USU (Univ. of the Soviet Union). If I were an FCS AD I would no longer schedule U of M unless the terms were very favorable. Schedule Missoula HS for your home games or go on the road to FBS schools. IMHO

I doubt "their" programs are "suffering". They may be inconvenienced a bit, but let's be real....your AD is an adult, knew the terms of the agreement, and hopefully anticipated the possibility that circumstances might lead to a buy-out (that's why there is a buy-out clause.) Also, the benefits of hosting the Griz are obvious to virtually all ADs in the FBS....one of, if not the largest crowd of the year. I guess we don't need to worry about you becoming an FCS AD, You'd cut off your nose to spite your face. xidiotx

[oldSLOguy]

Well you missed my point, which was...WHY CANT WE SCHEDULE HOME AND HOME WITH BIG TIME FCS SCHOOLS? WAYNE HOGAN DID IT? WHY CANT JIM O'DAY? I SAID DONT GIVE ME THAT DEBT CRAP, BECAUSE I DONT BELIEVE IT. I AGREE. ALSO TO SHOW HOW UPSET I AM WITH OUR AD, HE RECENTLY ANNOUNCED WE WERE OUT OF DEBT, YET WE CAN'T SCHEDULE HOME AND HOMES? I'M PISSED WITH OUR AD, AND YOU NEED TO REALIZE IM A FAN NOT THE AD. READ THIS THREAD: http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20357

So sorry for typing in caps, but you attack me when i clearly agree with your statements. To blame our old AD is plain wrong, Wayne Hogan was a great AD, it was bookkeeping errors that put us in our problem. I truly hope the Cal Poly/UM game can get going again, and I hope it starts in SLO:thumbsup:
Sorry, I didn't mean to attack you directly. I'd read through a number of comments and become somewhat discusted with the tennor of some of them. I quickly searched for a for a statement that would lead into the subject and yours was the first to pot up, so it became the lead-in "quote". I can see why you are pissed with the U of M AD as he certainly has not been an asset to the U of M brand name as shown in the other thread you pointed out to me. Incidentally, I'd missed that thread and found it interesting after you directed me that way. I also would like to see the CP/Montana series resumed. I'm interested in how you think this will play out in the long run for U of M scheduling?:bow:

[putter]

I'm interested in how you think this will play out in the long run for U of M scheduling?:bow:

From what I hear as the AD on coaches travel around the state that is the #1 question. I would have to think that the OOC opponents and travel would pick up now that the deficit is no more, at least I hope so.

[GRZZ]

One other question about playoff funding. I have heard in the past but would like an informed Montana fan to confirm or deny. Doesn't Montana barely break even in the playoffs with every game at home and a trip to the National Championship? Are other schools in the same boat? I would imagine most of them would be worse off? My point is, someone suggested that losing the big four attendance wise wouldn't hurt the playoffs, but the big problem with the playoff already is that the NCAA loses money on them, isn't it? So if you take away the major funder of the playoffs, and solve that problem by raising the bids on the home teams, wouldn't that hurt the teams even more because they are already losing money on the playoffs? I guess I just don't see raising the bids as a realistic option to overcome not having a major gate draw in the playoffs... Thoughts?

[putter]

What I don't understand is, why does the NCAA pay ESPN to televise the playoffs? They have enough clout that they could say that allowing them to negotiate to televise conference games and bowl games that the FCS playoffs and NC game is part of the package. Heck negotiate with them to televise a few regular season FCS games to increase revenue for the subdivision.

[GRZZ]

What I don't understand is, why does the NCAA pay ESPN to televise the playoffs? They have enough clout that they could say that allowing them to negotiate to televise conference games and bowl games that the FCS playoffs and NC game is part of the package. Heck negotiate with them to televise a few regular season FCS games to increase revenue for the subdivision.

That is a good point. They hold the cards. There must be some reason that they don't do this, because I have trouble believing even the NCAA is that stupid...but then again. :rotateh:

[Green26]

Montana doesn't make much money on the playoffs only because the NCAA is entitled to most of the money from the tickets. Montana makes some money, though, as the NCAA pays the game expenses and there is some ticket revenue for the host. The same is true for other teams. I don't know what Montana nets on a game, but I would guess something in the range of $25,000 to $50,000.

It is possible that Montana could lose money on a playoff game, if its bid was very very high, and ticket revenue turned out to be very low. I think Montana easily covers its bids, though, because it can count on a large number of tickets being sold and has considerable experience in estimating attendance and in bidding for the playoffs. Some playoff teams have lost money, though, because they couldn't cover their bid. Did Mont. St. cover its bid this year for the playoff game? I had heard their bid was fairly high.

Teams going to the championship game, including Montana, sometimes "lose" money because they bring larger groups and incur more costs, than the NCAA pays for. The NCAA recently increased the number of people it would pay from something like 100 to 110 (or 120). I don't recall the numbers. Besides the team, coaches and basic athletic dept. personnel, there are the players who can't suit up due to the number limitation, redshirts, additional athletic dep't. personnel, coaches wives, cheerleaders, the band, and perhaps others. I don't know if the costs of people like the president and his wife and other other administrators is borne by university or the athletic dep't. There is, of course, no requirement to bring the cheerleaders, band, redshirts, etc., but Montana and certain other teams have tried to include a fairly large group in the past. Thus, the "loss" is generally because teams have brought a larger traveling group than the NCAA will pay for.

[Green26]

Most people associated with Montana believe the AD is doing a very good job. Even many of the fans who are disappointed with the 2007 schedule believe the AD has been doing a good job. He has overseen the paying off of the budget deficit two years ahead of schedule. With the pay-off of the deficit, the athletic dept. loses significant temporary revenue, though, including student ticket prices and certain licensing and parking revenue--all of which were temporary.

The AD has also been involved with increasing coaching salaries and providing incentives in their compensation, and had to "find" the money for that. He has been involved with creating a new position for a football strength coach, and funding it.

The AD has overseen the plan to increase seating and do some related stadium renovations, and has put together the plan for repayment of that loan, which will come either from the university or possibly a bank. In a year when Montana will not have the revenue from the Mont. St. game, as the game is in Bozeman in 2007, it was important to have 7 home games, or 6 home games plus a large I-A revenue game (not just any I-A game). Ticket prices are higher for the Mont. St. game (like $50), and there is some tv revenue. Thus, it was deemed necessary to buy out SDS in order to have a third home non-conference game.

[oldSLOguy]

The script you are running is called (by Transactional Analysts) "oh poor me", ........you show neither the grace nor the wisdom that should come with age.

Thank You!


I doubt "their" programs are "suffering". They may be inconvenienced a bit, but let's be real....your AD is an adult, knew the terms of the agreement, and hopefully anticipated the possibility that circumstances might lead to a buy-out (that's why there is a buy-out clause.).

Your right, The AD's are adults, and I'll bet the SDSU AD really appreciates being the butt of water cooler jokes after giving up two games for what I think was a very small buy out. Now, here is the question for you. If you were the AD for any other FCS institution and were considering a game with the Griz, how would you now require that the terms of the contract be structured before you accept the deal? The folks on the AGS site are really knowledgeable about college football, so to make it really interesting use the polling option to allow the site readers to give a yea or nea on whether or not they would advise their AD to accept the contract terms you have proposed! I think the AGS folks opinions would probably be a good proxy for the AD's and provide a reasonable approximation of what future scheduling will be like for the Griz.

P.S. Anyone else care to take a stab at contract terms from the point of view of other AD's?

[Tod]

Thank You!



Your right, The AD's are adults, and I'll bet the SDSU AD really appreciates being the butt of water cooler jokes after giving up two games for what I think was a very small buy out. Now, here is the question for you. If you were the AD for any other FCS institution and were considering a game with the Griz, how would you now require that the terms of the contract be structured before you accept the deal? The folks on the AGS site are really knowledgeable about college football, so to make it really interesting use the polling option to allow the site readers to give a yea or nea on whether or not they would advise their AD to accept the contract terms you have proposed! I think the AGS folks opinions would probably be a good proxy for the AD's and provide a reasonable approximation of what future scheduling will be like for the Griz.

P.S. Anyone else care to take a stab at contract terms from the point of view of other AD's?

It seems to me that a $50K buyout, as written in the CONTRACT!!!!!, is fair, though I understand your misgivings.

I'm fine with making the buyout $100K. Do it.

:twocents:

[lizrdgizrd]

Whatever the terms are that the ADs come to in the contract should be lived with by both teams. If one decided to exercise the buyout clause then so be it.

Tell me a $100K buyout would keep teams from taking a $350K money game.
Why not make the buyout $1M? Not likely to get that contract signed. :nonono2:

[WyomingGrizFan]

Montana was trying to schedule Dartmouth. (Several supporters of Montana athletics are apparently former Dartmouth football players who live Montana. There is also a Montana kid currently playing for Dartmouth.)

I don't know if that was Dartmouth or not that you're mentioning, "EastCoast.' But I do know that there is a player from Billings, Montana on the roster for Harvard. A Chris Carlson listed as a freshman DB wearing #5. That could possibly be more accurate. If so, it would definitely be a game that I would favor, especially as a road game considering the high attendance that the Crimson enjoy. It would be quite the experience, I would think.

[Proud Griz Man]

Thank You!



Your right, The AD's are adults, and I'll bet the SDSU AD really appreciates being the butt of water cooler jokes after giving up two games for what I think was a very small buy out. Now, here is the question for you. If you were the AD for any other FCS institution and were considering a game with the Griz, how would you now require that the terms of the contract be structured before you accept the deal? The folks on the AGS site are really knowledgeable about college football, so to make it really interesting use the polling option to allow the site readers to give a yea or nea on whether or not they would advise their AD to accept the contract terms you have proposed! I think the AGS folks opinions would probably be a good proxy for the AD's and provide a reasonable approximation of what future scheduling will be like for the Griz.

P.S. Anyone else care to take a stab at contract terms from the point of view of other AD's?

How much $$$ is Cal Poly getting to play at Idaho???
Is the Cal Poly-Idaho contract a 'One-and-done' deal???
Do you see the irony here folks???

[Tod]

Whatever the terms are that the ADs come to in the contract should be lived with by both teams. If one decided to exercise the buyout clause then so be it.

Tell me a $100K buyout would keep teams from taking a $350K money game.
Why not make the buyout $1M? Not likely to get that contract signed. :nonono2:

A $100K buyout might keep the Griz from taking the money game. The Griz make $350K for a home game, why would they travel for that amount?

Iowa had to go to $650K last year because the Griz:

1. Lose $350K for the home game
2. Have a $50K buyout, and
3. Have to pay over $100K for travel expenses.

The only reason the Griz took that Iowa game was that their offer was huge, and we were in debt. That extra $50K might be the difference next time.

Besides that, the team taking the alleged buyout would be happier, or at least half as angry, to take a $100K buyout.

[lizrdgizrd]

A $100K buyout might keep the Griz from taking the money game. The Griz make $350K for a home game, why would they travel for that amount?

Iowa had to go to $650K last year because the Griz:

1. Lose $350K for the home game
2. Have a $50K buyout, and
3. Have to pay over $100K for travel expenses.

The only reason the Griz took that Iowa game was that their offer was huge, and we were in debt. That extra $50K might be the difference next time.

Besides that, the team taking the alleged buyout would be happier, or at least half as angry, to take a $100K buyout.
Most teams don't have the same financial situation that Montana does. Most don't make that much per home game, most don't have as high travel costs (closer to $ teams). I would guess that most teams could still turn a profit off $350K - ($100K buyout + travel). :nod:

[Tod]

Most teams don't have the same financial situation that Montana does. Most don't make that much per home game, most don't have as high travel costs (closer to $ teams). I would guess that most teams could still turn a profit off $350K - ($100K buyout + travel). :nod:

I could be wrong on the travel costs, it seems that I read that somewhere.

[ASU]

LSU didn't pay you guys? :rolleyes:
Of course they paid Appalachian. As a matter of fact ASU students
collected several thousand dollars for LSU reference Katrina expenses.xnodx xrulesx

[89Hen]

Uh...Westchester and Monmouth?
West Chester = Fort Lewis
Monmouth = Albany
Navy = Southern Utah... oops