Will this be the two most competitive teams to play for a national championship in fc

[Twentysix]

FCS history? (Tapatalk cut my title)

I'd love to hear people's thoughts.

What are the highest computer raitings for the last two teams standing in the fcs each year? Is this the highest rated (avg) game ever in the fcs?

I think this game will be a repeat of ISUr vs NDSU, which has been the best game from the strongest teams since I've been following the fcs. However, there are about 30 championships that were before my time. I started following in 06ish.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

Well, I’m sure you realize that is a completely subjective question. Most of the time, the FCS title game sports two really good football teams. We also do not know how “competitive” this game will be as it has not been played.

If you want an example of two super good teams playing one another, check out 1996. That games sported two undefeated teams (itself is a rarity) who had also played for the title the previous season.

14-0 Marshall faced 14-0 Montana. Heading into that game, both teams had played a combined 28 games and exactly zero teams had managed to stay within a double digit margin of either of them.

So, unlike JMU and NDSU, those two teams had never lost. In fact, neither team had really even come close to losing. If I had to select “greatest FCS/1AA team of all time,” it would probably be the 1996 Marshall team.

[Twentysix]

Well, I’m sure you realize that is a completely subjective question. Most of the time, the FCS title game sports two really good football teams. We also do not know how “competitive” this game will be as it has not been played.

If you want an example of two super good teams playing one another, check out 1996. That games sported two undefeated teams (itself is a rarity) who had also played for the title the previous season.

14-0 Marshall faced 14-0 Montana. Heading into that game, both teams had played a combined 28 games and exactly zero teams had managed to stay within a double digit margin of either of them.

So, unlike JMU and NDSU, those two teams had never lost. In fact, neither team had really even come close to losing. If I had to select “greatest FCS/1AA team of all time,” it would probably be the 1996 Marshall team.Where did that Marshall team finish in the combined fcs/fbs rankings? IIRC one of NDSUs teams finished 17th. (All sagarin pages are coming up unavailable on mobile devices atm :/)

It is subjective, but if you compare across divisions you can kind of get a baseline for the Calibur of teams even though they are all at the same place (NC game).

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

1996 Marshall team: Take away Moss and that team is good but not great.

IMO, these two JMU teams and probably 3 Bison teams beat that Marshall team...easily.

[Twentysix]

Though 2013 was NDSUs strongest team ever, 2013 was not the strongest NC matchup.

Found Marshall 96 finished 14th per a usa today article. Damn impressive. Is anyone with a computer able to look up 96 Montana's final spot?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

Honorable mention: 2003, where 14-1 Delaware faced 15-0 Colgate.

[PaladinFan]

1996 Marshall team: Take away Moss and that team is good but not great.

IMO, these two JMU teams and probably 3 Bison teams beat that Marshall team...easily.

Oh for Pete's sake. That's a ridiculous argument.

If you take away a team's best player, yeah, sure, that team is easier to beat. You can literally apply that to every team in football. The Patriots without Tom Brady? How about New Orleans without Drew Brees? Oklahoma without Baker Mayfield?

I realize there is a NDSU-centric world in which many of you live, but you will need to recognize that there were in fact really good teams that played at this level before NDSU that were as good if not better.

[JSUSoutherner]

I don't think this game will be as competitive as some of you think it will be.

[TennBison]

I don't think this game will be as competitive as some of you think it will be.
I agree, 42-13 Bison win.

[ElCid]

Though 2013 was NDSUs strongest team ever, 2013 was not the strongest NC matchup.

Found Marshall 96 finished 14th per a usa today article. Damn impressive. Is anyone with a computer able to look up 96 Montana's final spot?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Not sure if that is correct, 14th?
Let me check my files after I wake up. But as has been alluded to, these computer rankings, based upon ratings, can't be compared year to year. They are only apples to apples in the same year. And even then it is only as good as the algorithm is and how connected teams were.

[Bisonator]

Well, I’m sure you realize that is a completely subjective question. Most of the time, the FCS title game sports two really good football teams. We also do not know how “competitive” this game will be as it has not been played.

If you want an example of two super good teams playing one another, check out 1996. That games sported two undefeated teams (itself is a rarity) who had also played for the title the previous season.

14-0 Marshall faced 14-0 Montana. Heading into that game, both teams had played a combined 28 games and exactly zero teams had managed to stay within a double digit margin of either of them.

So, unlike JMU and NDSU, those two teams had never lost. In fact, neither team had really even come close to losing. If I had to select “greatest FCS/1AA team of all time,” it would probably be the 1996 Marshall team.

That's the game that usually comes to mind. Those were 2 great teams. I'm biased so the 2013 Bison team is my "best all time" but that Marshall team was right there with them.


I don't think this game will be as competitive as some of you think it will be.

I don't either. These games seldom live up to the hype. I think the score will be closer than the play on the field though, just kind of the nature of the way both teams play.

[walliver]

Honorable mention: 2003, where 14-1 Delaware faced 15-0 Colgate.

The game itself was NOT competitive.

[ElCid]

Though 2013 was NDSUs strongest team ever, 2013 was not the strongest NC matchup.

Found Marshall 96 finished 14th per a usa today article. Damn impressive. Is anyone with a computer able to look up 96 Montana's final spot?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

I went back and checked my records and not sure what article you saw but, I have them at #21 to finish. You can get the final Sagarin ratings from 1998 to present on the USA today site still. They only keep the last 20 years. Marshall may have been #14 at the end of the regular season maybe the writer used that. But the final ranking for Marshall was 21 for 1996. I checked on the final rankings from 1996 to present when USA Today still had them up. That was the second highest for an FCS team ever. NDSU was #17 in 2013 for the highest. But as I also mentioned in another post, this is not necessarily a good way to compare teams from different years. It also gets tricky because in 1996 there were a total of 234 Div I teams. Now there are 254.

Just for another comparison though, Marshall was #23 in Massey in 1996. NDSU was #13 in 2013. One of the glaring differences between these two teams was that NDSU did have an FBS opponent (a good one and they beat them) and Marshall did not. But each team did pretty much destroyed all of the opponents every game (including the championship game) although Marshall might have an edge in that overall by a smidgen. Interesting comparison though.

This appears to be the highest rated match up per the computers (#32 vs #25 in Massey, #34 Vs #46 in Sagarin). I would say this is probably the best matchup per the eye test as well even if one team has a blemish.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

96 ...Montana VS Marshall. Teams had multiple NFL players on them, and it was a rematch.

Back when the game was at Marshalls home field

Those were potentially two of the most dominant teams the FCS has seen.

[AmsterBison]

The game itself was NOT competitive.

Yeah, I started really following the FCS that year... Colgate had a game that looked like it was played in a snow globe so that was good TV, but that championship game was ugly.

[DFW HOYA]

The game itself was NOT competitive.

But they were competitive teams, which was the point of the thread.

When is the next Patriot League team to sweep the season undefeated and be in the final? Not anytime soon.

[TennBison]

But they were competitive teams, which was the point of the thread.

When is the next Patriot League champion team to have a winning record and be in the final? Not anytime soon.
Fixed it for you.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Though 2013 was NDSUs strongest team ever, 2013 was not the strongest NC matchup.

Found Marshall 96 finished 14th per a usa today article. Damn impressive. Is anyone with a computer able to look up 96 Montana's final spot?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
agreed on 2013 NDSU team being strongest ever with 2016 JMU being 2nd best team .. JMU offense was slightly stronger, but NDSU defense was much better, and tilts the "what if" game to NDSU.

may be biased, but NDSU vs ISUr was the best natty GAME ... too many others watching the game and posting here said same thing .. best natty of "recent memory" .. whatever timeframe you want to put on that.

won't deny this years NDSU-JMU game is setting up to rival the 2014 game for sure .. but BOTH teams have to show up and play it first .. like NDSU-ISUr did in 2014.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Oh for Pete's sake. That's a ridiculous argument.

If you take away a team's best player, yeah, sure, that team is easier to beat. You can literally apply that to every team in football. The Patriots without Tom Brady? How about New Orleans without Drew Brees? Oklahoma without Baker Mayfield?

I realize there is a NDSU-centric world in which many of you live, but you will need to recognize that there were in fact really good teams that played at this level before NDSU that were as good if not better.



It is my opinion there bud. I don't give a rat's ass if you like it or not.

[Nor Eastern]

That '96 Marshall team would run through the current FCS like a bull through china shop.

[knit35]

That '96 Marshall team would run through the current FCS like a bull through china shop.

Why can bulls only run thru china shops?

[TheKingpin28]

Why can bulls only run thru china shops?

I have seen pictures of Pamplona and I am pretty sure they let those bulls go bat **** crazy in the streets.

[Twentysix]

I went back and checked my records and not sure what article you saw but, I have them at #21 to finish. You can get the final Sagarin ratings from 1998 to present on the USA today site still. They only keep the last 20 years. Marshall may have been #14 at the end of the regular season maybe the writer used that. But the final ranking for Marshall was 21 for 1996. I checked on the final rankings from 1996 to present when USA Today still had them up. That was the second highest for an FCS team ever. NDSU was #17 in 2013 for the highest. But as I also mentioned in another post, this is not necessarily a good way to compare teams from different years. It also gets tricky because in 1996 there were a total of 234 Div I teams. Now there are 254.

Just for another comparison though, Marshall was #23 in Massey in 1996. NDSU was #13 in 2013. One of the glaring differences between these two teams was that NDSU did have an FBS opponent (a good one and they beat them) and Marshall did not. But each team did pretty much destroyed all of the opponents every game (including the championship game) although Marshall might have an edge in that overall by a smidgen. Interesting comparison though.

This appears to be the highest rated match up per the computers (#32 vs #25 in Massey, #34 Vs #46 in Sagarin). I would say this is probably the best matchup per the eye test as well even if one team has a blemish.Sagarin says that the best finish in recent years in his ratings by a team in what used to be labeled Division I-AA was Marshall in 1996. The Thundering Herd won the national title while going 15-0 and were 14th in Sagarin's final ratings.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3645173

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[Nor Eastern]

Marshall did beat 8 ranked teams that year, all in the top 20. Four During the regular season with three of them on the road.

[PantherRob82]

A lot of great games: 85,87,89,92,97,00,05,09,10 and 14 are the best I’ve seen at least highlights of.

That 85 Georgia Southern team with Tracy Ham was impressive. Youngstown, Marshall, Montana, App state and many others played in these games. 2010 was competitive down to the end and had the crazy spot controversy. 2005 was a great game and the streak UNI went on to make the playoffs, let alone the title game was one for the ages.

[tribefan40]

A lot of great games: 85,87,89,92,97,00,05,09,10 and 14 are the best I’ve seen at least highlights of.

That 85 Georgia Southern team with Tracy Ham was impressive. Youngstown, Marshall, Montana, App state and many others played in these games. 2010 was competitive down to the end and had the crazy spot controversy. 2005 was a great game and the streak UNI went on to make the playoffs, let alone the title game was one for the ages.

'09 - Painful for tribe faithful, but maybe the best pair of semifinals ever.

[ElCid]

Sagarin says that the best finish in recent years in his ratings by a team in what used to be labeled Division I-AA was Marshall in 1996. The Thundering Herd won the national title while going 15-0 and were 14th in Sagarin's final ratings.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3645173

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

That's weird. I looked right on the site a year or two ago and recorded them all. He does have a couple different type of rankings so maybe that was it....rating, predictor, etc.

[BisonTru]

Just looking at some numbers from Massey. Here's the last 10 years:



Year
Team
Rating
PWR Rating


2017
James Madison
1.94
62.31


2017
North Dakota St
1.9
63.42


2016
James Madison
1.91
61.12


2016
Youngston St
1.63
51.77


2015
North Dakota St
1.79
56.16


2015
Jacksonville St
1.56
46.79


2014
North Dakota St
1.87
60


2014
Illinois St
1.73
56.82


2013
North Dakota St
2.21
68.89


2013
Towson
1.66
49.87


2012
North Dakota St
1.86
59.74


2012
Sam Houston St
1.57
50.94


2011
North Dakota St
1.8
51.38


2011
Sam Houston St
1.52
41.83


2010
Eastern Washington
1.64
38.94


2010
Delaware
1.56
44.15


2009
Villanova
1.87
47.02


2009
Montana
1.59
40.97


2008
Richmond
1.76
53.2


2008
Montana
1.65
48.49




--------------------------------------------------------



Rank
Year
Team
Rating
PWR Rating


1
2013
North Dakota St
2.21
68.89


2
2017
James Madison
1.94
62.31


3
2016
James Madison
1.91
61.12


4
2017
North Dakota St
1.9
63.42


5
2014
North Dakota St
1.87
60


6
2009
Villanova
1.87
47.02


7
2012
North Dakota St
1.86
59.74


8
2011
North Dakota St
1.8
51.38


9
2015
North Dakota St
1.79
56.16


10
2008
Richmond
1.76
53.2


11
2014
Illinois St
1.73
56.82


12
2013
Towson
1.66
49.87


13
2008
Montana
1.65
48.49


14
2010
Eastern Washington
1.64
38.94


15
2016
Youngston St
1.63
51.77


16
2009
Montana
1.59
40.97


17
2012
Sam Houston St
1.57
50.94


18
2015
Jacksonville St
1.56
46.79


19
2010
Delaware
1.56
44.15


20
2011
Sam Houston St
1.52
41.83

[Twentysix]

Awesome. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[KPSUL]

I don't think this game will be as competitive as some of you think it will be.

OK, not competitive. Who ya got winning it?

[TheValleyRaider]

The game itself was NOT competitive.

What are you talking about? That game never happened. I don't remember anything.

http://www.mvcommunitycovenant.com/uploads/1/2/1/3/12132870/published/lalala.png?1493328802

[344Johnson]

1996 Marshall team: Take away Moss and that team is good but not great.

IMO, these two JMU teams and probably 3 Bison teams beat that Marshall team...easily.

I'm sure you have watched a lot of tape on the '96 Marshall team.

I have a hard time believing that any FCS team would "easily" beat a team with Randy Moss....whose closest game that year was a 14 point win on the road. The year before, without Randy Moss, and with a backup quarterback, it appears Marshall made it to the championship game as well, and the year after won the MAC, and Randy Moss tore it up there too.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I'm sure you have watched a lot of tape on the '96 Marshall team.

I have a hard time believing that any FCS team would "easily" beat a team with Randy Moss....whose closest game that year was a 14 point win on the road. The year before, without Randy Moss, and with a backup quarterback, it appears Marshall made it to the championship game as well, and the year after won the MAC, and Randy Moss tore it up there too.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion.


You think that team was great then great. I actually watched that title game in '96.

Defense wins titles and yes everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[uni88]

You think that team was great then great. I actually watched that title game in '96.

Defense wins titles and yes everyone is entitled to their opinion.Wasn't Pennington the QB of that Marshall team? He might not have been a great pro QB but he was one of the best in I-AA/FCS.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Wasn't Pennington the QB of that Marshall team? He might not have been a great pro QB but he was one of the best in I-AA/FCS.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


Yes, he was very good.

[uni88]

Yes, he was very good.Very good = better than any NDSU QB not named Wentz (and yes this includes Jensen).

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[344Johnson]

Wasn't Pennington the QB of that Marshall team? He might not have been a great pro QB but he was one of the best in I-AA/FCS.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Looked at his wikipedia page. Looks like he redshirted that year. Played in the I-AA as a freshman though.

[Sader87]

Sagarin says that the best finish in recent years in his ratings by a team in what used to be labeled Division I-AA was Marshall in 1996. The Thundering Herd won the national title while going 15-0 and were 14th in Sagarin's final ratings.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3645173

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

From that article...Holy Cross was 17th in the final Sagarin ratings in 1987....more and more hard to believe with each passing year.

[uni88]

Looked at his wikipedia page. Looks like he redshirted that year. Played in the I-AA as a freshman though.My bad. That Marshall team was still loaded and there was a whole lot more talent on it than just Moss. The teams they beat and their margin of victory demonstrates that.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Eagle22]

Wasn't Pennington the QB of that Marshall team? He might not have been a great pro QB but he was one of the best in I-AA/FCS.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Eric Kresser was Marshall's QB in 1996. He transferred from Florida in 1995 probably due to Danny Wuerffel :)

Georgia Southern had the misfortune in 1996 to play both the 1-A and 1-AA National Championship teams that year ... and '96 was our first year with a losing record after restarting football.

We entered that game ranked #13 and played them about as good as anybody that year, losing 29-13 at home just a week after Florida had throttled us. Randy Moss and Kresser were simply unstoppable. I think App held them to their lowest output that season, if I remember correctly.

That Marshall team in 1996 was pretty much a machine, but I think the '89 Eagles and '99 Eagles would have matched up just fine with them, in different ways. When you have a team winning 14 or 15 games through a playoff gauntlet they are in elite company.

[caribbeanhen]

Eric Kresser was Marshall's QB in 1996. He transferred from Florida in 1995 probably due to Danny Wuerffel :)

Georgia Southern had the misfortune in 1996 to play both the 1-A and 1-AA National Championship teams that year ... and '96 was our first year with a losing record after restarting football.

We entered that game ranked #13 and played them about as good as anybody that year, losing 29-13 at home just a week after Florida had throttled us. Randy Moss and Kresser were simply unstoppable. I think App held them to their lowest output that season, if I remember correctly.

That Marshall team in 1996 was pretty much a machine, but I think the '89 Eagles and '99 Eagles would have matched up just fine with them, in different ways. When you have a team winning 14 or 15 games through a playoff gauntlet they are in elite company.

When are you guys coming back down? there's a few teams I know that need some competition

[awBison]

I honestly don't think that this game will be very close.

[Twentysix]

I honestly don't think that this game will be very close.I keep seeing people say that. I'm not convinced. I see a lot of strength on both sides.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[BisonTru]

I keep seeing people say that. I'm not convinced. I see a lot of strength on both sides.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

You'll notice the folks saying that aren't picking a team. The way I see it they could be right in that you are seeing two powerhouse teams collide and it's likely one team gets the other to fold first and then ends up with a comfortable victory. It's power vs power. No shootout here expected. The only team I've seen during NDSU's run to match us physically outside of the MVFC is JMU.

Going to be fun to watch. The Massey numbers I posted earlier reaffirms what I and many believe in that this is at least the best duo to end up in Frisco. A two score victory doesn't change that IMO.

[Derby City Duke]

Coming in, definitely the best matchup on paper in the last 20 years.

All year, NDSU has been dominant defensively (SDSU notwitstanding) and extremely good (with occasional flashes of ordinary) offensively. Their special teams seem to be as solid as ever.

All year, JMU has been dominant defensively (WSU notwithstanding), and very good (occasional flashes of excellence and ordinary) offensively. Special teams are an unknown as they are on their back-up kicker and punt returner (both have done pretty well, but you never know when those nerves might get to them).

I'm not sure you'll find better coaching staffs (as a whole) than the teams in Harrisonburg and Fargo. They've figured out how to build, and develop, depth with only 63 scholarships apiece and from all appearances both HCs seem to be decent human beings that truly care about their players and schools.

What both teams have in abundance is the confidence to overcome slow starts, stingy defenses, and adverse circumstances to win 53 of 57 games over the past 2 seasons.

January 6th is the Lakers vs. Celtics, Bruins vs. Blackhawks, ND vs. USC (in its totality) -- must see TV. I don't know how competitive the game actually will be, but can't wait to watch it. Can't get to Frisco, so I will have to watch it on the small screen.

Have fun at the game and here's hoping the temperatures are a bit more moderate and the field is much less of a skating rink than last year.

And to no hard hat- and safety vest-wearing and XP-retrieving construction workers in the south end zone, I say Dilly Dilly! xhighfivex

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Coming in, definitely the best matchup on paper in the last 20 years.

All year, NDSU has been dominant defensively (SDSU notwitstanding) and extremely good (with occasional flashes of ordinary) offensively. Their special teams seem to be as solid as ever.

All year, JMU has been dominant defensively (WSU notwithstanding), and very good (occasional flashes of excellence and ordinary) offensively. Special teams are an unknown as they are on their back-up kicker and punt returner (both have done pretty well, but you never know when those nerves might get to them).

I'm not sure you'll find better coaching staffs (as a whole) than the teams in Harrisonburg and Fargo. They've figured out how to build, and develop, depth with only 63 scholarships apiece and from all appearances both HCs seem to be decent human beings that truly care about their players and schools.

What both teams have in abundance is the confidence to overcome slow starts, stingy defenses, and adverse circumstances to win 53 of 57 games over the past 2 seasons.

January 6th is the Lakers vs. Celtics, Bruins vs. Blackhawks, ND vs. USC (in its totality) -- must see TV. I don't know how competitive the game actually will be, but can't wait to watch it. Can't get to Frisco, so I will have to watch it on the small screen.

Have fun at the game and here's hoping the temperatures are a bit more moderate and the field is much less of a skating rink than last year.

And to no hard hat- and safety vest-wearing and XP-retrieving construction workers in the south end zone, I say Dilly Dilly! xhighfivex



Good post but both offenses are pretty darn good also.

Scoring offense:

NDSU - #2
JMU - #8

Total offense:

NDSU - #8
JMU - #21


Good post again!

[Bison56]

I don't think this game will be as competitive as some of you think it will be.

Me either JMU rolls, they are the greatest team ever.

[caribbeanhen]

Me either JMU rolls, they are the greatest team ever.

fake sarcasm, nobody is saying JMU rolls

[FUGameBreaker]

1996 Marshall team: Take away Moss and that team is good but not great.

IMO, these two JMU teams and probably 3 Bison teams beat that Marshall team...easily.



Lol, man you have no freaking clue just talking out of your ass xblahx

[FUGameBreaker]

You think that team was great then great. I actually watched that title game in '96.

Defense wins titles and yes everyone is entitled to their opinion.



To call your idiotic ramblings an "opinion" is doing a disservice to the word opinion, carry on clown

[PaladinFan]

To call your idiotic ramblings an "opinion" is doing a disservice to the word opinion, carry on clown

Here is Freakonomics debunking the myth that “defense wins championships” (http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/20/does-defense-really-win-championships/)

Besides, that trope assumes your championship-winning defense would not be playing Randy Moss. In 1996, the team with Randy Moss was winning the championship regardless of the defense facing them.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Lol, man you have no freaking clue just talking out of your ass xblahx


OK macho man savage...xlolx

I'll stand by that statement any time.

[Derby City Duke]

Good post but both offenses are pretty darn good also.

Scoring offense:

NDSU - #2
JMU - #8

Total offense:

NDSU - #8
JMU - #21


Good post again!

The overall numbers for JMU's offense are good, but watching them play most of their games on-line, they just don't look to be in sync a lot of the time. OL has been and continues to be patchwork. Their defense has just ground down the opposition until the offense can get it in gear.

[JayMYou]

Me either JMU rolls, they are the greatest team ever.

I know Brian Regan. I've seen Brian Regan many times since the mid 1990's. You are no Brian Regan.