NC AT&T Final Poll Placement

[Twentysix]

Kingpin you've been a little hard on the Professor's knowledge of the Midwest considering that you dismissed Michigan and Indiana (with a concession) from being in the Midwest. There are different ways of dividing the US but almost all of them have Michigan and Indiana as part of the Midwest. I know you probably think of it as heresy but there is a greater chance that North Dakota would not be considered Midwest than Michigan or Indiana.Agreed. The Midwest is not a completely settled area, but Indiana and Michigan are the historical heart of the midwest.

Iirc the Midwest is a term from the era of the Louisiana purchase or shortly thereafter. In that time you had the original colonies which were the east, and the area of Minnesota and the Dakotas being considered the northwest. The stuff between the original US and the northwest was considered to be the middle West (Midwest;i.e. the original Western US before the second major round of territorial expansion) starting in Ohio and going to Wisconsin.

The Dakotas nebraska and Minnesota were eventually tacked on for being culturally similar to the rest of the midwest.

Growing up in Western North Dakota I would have never called myself Midwestern. The idea that Montana and Colorado are included is bizarre to me. I was born in the great plains, not the Midwest. For those not from ND there is a REALLY strong cultural/linguistic/geographic divide between the Red River valley(the extreme east of ND) and the rest of North Dakota.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[BisonFan02]

Agreed. The Midwest is not a completely settled area, but Indiana and Michigan are the historical heart of the midwest.

Iirc the Midwest is a term from the era of the Louisiana purchase or shortly thereafter. In that time you had the original colonies which were the east, and the area of Minnesota and the Dakotas being considered the northwest. The stuff between the original US and the northwest was considered to be the middle West (Midwest;i.e. the original Western US before the second major round of territorial expansion) starting in Ohio and going to Wisconsin.

The Dakotas nebraska and Minnesota were eventually tacked on for being culturally similar to the rest of the midwest.

Growing up in Western North Dakota I would have never called myself Midwestern. The idea that Montana and Colorado are included is bizarre to me. I was born in the great plains, not the Midwest. For those not from ND there is a REALLY strong cultural/linguistic/geographic divide between the Red River valley(the extreme east of ND) and the rest of North Dakota.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

#palouseapoloza

[TheKingpin28]

Kingpin you've been a little hard on the Professor's knowledge of the Midwest considering that you dismissed Michigan and Indiana (with a concession) from being in the Midwest. There are different ways of dividing the US but almost all of them have Michigan and Indiana as part of the Midwest. I know you probably think of it as heresy but there is a greater chance that North Dakota would not be considered Midwest than Michigan or Indiana.

Eastern North Dakota is more Plains Midwest, but Detroit is nothing like the Midwest. The UP is not the Midwest, it is more Deciduous Forest than Midwest. I can concede Western Indiana, which I already did, but Eastern Indiana is not in the Midwest.

I was not being hard on him, I was being honest. Considering Louisiana is the Midwest, as well as Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, etc... I felt the need to debunk this whole "NDSU does not leave the Midwest and ONLY plays regional FCS football outside of Texas."

[Laker]

Does Delaware in 2019 count as the Midwest?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSFguQmUIAAg21c.jpg

[TheKingpin28]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSFguQmUIAAg21c.jpg

"Joe Flacco is an ELITE QB"

https://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png?fb

[Milktruck74]

I keep seeing Gardner-Webb brought up as proof that NC A&T is trying to schedule better outside of conference yet this is their record against D1 teams the previous 7 years before this one:

2016: 3-7
2015: 3-7
2014: 3-8
2013: 5-5
2012: 2-8
2011: 2-7
2010: 3-7

So you might want to stop using Gardner-Webb as you're "we're trying to schedule tougher OOC and didn't know they'd be bad" argument.

But these records would be some of the better teams they played this year in the MEAC and SWAC.

[Milktruck74]

**** yes it counts. As generally accepted, Delaware is north eastish of the Mason Dixon line...which is firmly within the Palouse zone.

The Mason Dixon line was established when the Penn (of Pennsylvania) and the Baltimore (of Maryland) families commissioned two surveyors (Mason and Dixon) to draw a line between their properties. the Mason-Dixson line is the Boarder between Maryland and Pennsylvania extended...Delaware is actually south of the line, as is part of NJ....yeah, I know....try to convince CitDog that NJ is in the south!!!!!

[Milktruck74]

YEs , deep down folks think a middle or losing program in MVFC or the CAA can beat the top team in the MEAC or SWAC. And that's bogus. A&T and Grambling both beat FCS teams this year. But their still is this thought that they and the leagues they play in are inferior. That will change with more FCS matchups.


Most of them are because i'm bored at work. We are all aware ( MEAC and SWAC ) of how majority of you feel. That's why it's so few of us here. This was more of an exercise to see if they were right. sadly they were

I appreciate your 1st post

I am going to assume you are not a grammar professor.

[uni88]

Eastern North Dakota is more Plains Midwest, but Detroit is nothing like the Midwest. The UP is not the Midwest, it is more Deciduous Forest than Midwest. I can concede Western Indiana, which I already did, but Eastern Indiana is not in the Midwest.

I was not being hard on him, I was being honest. Considering Louisiana is the Midwest, as well as Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, etc... I felt the need to debunk this whole "NDSU does not leave the Midwest and ONLY plays regional FCS football outside of Texas."

You are correct about the Professor being wrong about NDSU not leaving the Midwest but your definition of the Midwest is based on your subjective opinion and is not fact.

You initially dismissed Indiana and Michigan because of their time zone (which would have erroneously included Louisiana and Texas in the Midwest). Now you moved to dismissing them because of Detroit and vegetation? If you dismiss the UP because it's deciduous forest then don't you have to dismiss Wisconsin and Northern Minnesota too? Couldn't I use the same argument to say that a state is in the Midwest if corn and soybeans are the staple crops? Sorry plains states, wheat is your staple crop so you're part of the Heartland, Breadbasket, Plains or Prairie states but not the Midwest. And Detroit is only a small part of Michigan geographically. Are Illinois and Missouri not part of the Midwest because of Chicago and St. Louis? As Twentysix said "Indiana and Michigan are the historical heart of the midwest."

Here is an interesting online article on what makes up the Midwest. It probably doesn't stand up to social science standards for surveys but it does make some interesting points.

Which States Are In The Midwest? (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/)



One potential, albeit anecdotal, source of this? Several self-proclaimed Midwestern sources I spoke with have a very limited definition of the Midwest: namely, their state and any state bordering it. Minnesotans thought they made up the true Midwest; Hoosiers thought they did. I can’t say either way.


Indiana, Iowa and Illinois appear to be the core of the Midwest, each pulling more than 70 percent of the vote (that may partly be because of their substantial populations). Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota each pulled at least 60 percent of the vote, so we can probably put them in the Midwest without too much fuss. Ohio, Missouri and Kansas each got more than half.

[TheKingpin28]

The Mason Dixon line was established when the Penn (of Pennsylvania) and the Baltimore (of Maryland) families commissioned two surveyors (Mason and Dixon) to draw a line between their properties. the Mason-Dixson line is the Boarder between Maryland and Pennsylvania extended...Delaware is actually south of the line, as is part of NJ....yeah, I know....try to convince CitDog that NJ is in the south!!!!!

Well Monmouth does play in the Big South... xcoffeex

[kalm]

You are correct about the Professor being wrong about NDSU not leaving the Midwest but your definition of the Midwest is based on your subjective opinion and is not fact.

You initially dismissed Indiana and Michigan because of their time zone (which would have erroneously included Louisiana and Texas in the Midwest). Now you moved to dismissing them because of Detroit and vegetation? If you dismiss the UP because it's deciduous forest then don't you have to dismiss Wisconsin and Northern Minnesota too? Couldn't I use the same argument to say that a state is in the Midwest if corn and soybeans are the staple crops? Sorry plains states, wheat is your staple crop so you're part of the Heartland, Breadbasket, Plains or Prairie states but not the Midwest. And Detroit is only a small part of Michigan geographically. Are Illinois and Missouri not part of the Midwest because of Chicago and St. Louis? As Twentysix said "Indiana and Michigan are the historical heart of the midwest."

Here is an interesting online article on what makes up the Midwest. It probably doesn't stand up to social science standards for surveys but it does make some interesting points.

Which States Are In The Midwest? (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/)





This seems like a good description. State boundaries and historical names are a bit arbitrary and will have imperfections and outliers. Another example: Spearfish SD is not what I'd consider Midwest.

Then there's the Southwest Athletic Conference....

[TheKingpin28]

You are correct about the Professor being wrong about NDSU not leaving the Midwest but your definition of the Midwest is based on your subjective opinion and is not fact.

You initially dismissed Indiana and Michigan because of their time zone (which would have erroneously included Louisiana and Texas in the Midwest). Now you moved to dismissing them because of Detroit and vegetation? If you dismiss the UP because it's deciduous forest then don't you have to dismiss Wisconsin and Northern Minnesota too? Couldn't I use the same argument to say that a state is in the Midwest if corn and soybeans are the staple crops? Sorry plains states, wheat is your staple crop so you're part of the Heartland, Breadbasket, Plains or Prairie states but not the Midwest. And Detroit is only a small part of Michigan geographically. Are Illinois and Missouri not part of the Midwest because of Chicago and St. Louis? As Twentysix said "Indiana and Michigan are the historical heart of the midwest."

Here is an interesting online article on what makes up the Midwest. It probably doesn't stand up to social science standards for surveys but it does make some interesting points.

Which States Are In The Midwest? (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/)





I actually did not dismiss Western Indiana if you go back and read my posts and I say that it could be argued. If you have ever been to Michigan/Detroit, you will quickly realize it is more a combination of the South Side of Chicago combined with New York City. The reason why I put the UP in there is that it is more Canadian and Northern Wisconsin/Minnesota outside of the Red River Valley is one giant forest and reminds me of Southern Manitoba closer to Thunder Bay VS Plains Midwest. That is why I used the term Plains Midwest VS just Midwest.

If you look at geological evidence, it is easy to say why Southern Minnesota running down to Nebraska is similar due it used to being a shallow sea bed. Hell, why do you think the city Coralville got its' name? I just won't accept people who say Michigan is part of the Midwest when culturally, Michigan is different.

Using Nate Silver as a reference is usually a bad idea. As smart as he is, he is usually just as equally ignorant. His polls and statistical analysis are quite in depth and I enjoy that, but being owned by the NYT and his "biases" are inherently obvious.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the%20Midwest


the northern central part of the U.S. : the Middle West

the rich farmlands of the Midwest

—often used before another noun

my Midwest childhood



Midwest cities




The biggest problem I have with the Midwest is that there is the Great Lakes Region, the North Central, and the Plains regions, but when you look at what each of these produces, the Great Lakes is more coal orientated and timber where as the other two are traditional farming regions, which is why I argue Michigan and Ohio should be thrown out of the conversation.

[Hammerhead]

That same Richmond team lost 38-0 after they beat North Dakota in the playoffs. Beating North Dakota is much easier than beating North Dakota State. :)


2016: NCAT vs Richmond
A&T played with our 3rd string QB. I know that doesn't sit well with you or excuse the outcome but that's what happened. Richmond brought some kid who was redshrited to make sure they beat us. He beat North Dakota too.

[Professor]

That same Richmond team lost 38-0 after they beat North Dakota in the playoffs. Beating North Dakota is much easier than beating North Dakota State. :)

So beating the #7 ranked team means nothing huh . You folks are a trip

[uni88]

I actually did not dismiss Western Indiana if you go back and read my posts and I say that it could be argued. If you have ever been to Michigan/Detroit, you will quickly realize it is more a combination of the South Side of Chicago combined with New York City. The reason why I put the UP in there is that it is more Canadian and Northern Wisconsin/Minnesota outside of the Red River Valley is one giant forest and reminds me of Southern Manitoba closer to Thunder Bay VS Plains Midwest. That is why I used the term Plains Midwest VS just Midwest.

If you look at geological evidence, it is easy to say why Southern Minnesota running down to Nebraska is similar due it used to being a shallow sea bed. Hell, why do you think the city Coralville got its' name? I just won't accept people who say Michigan is part of the Midwest when culturally, Michigan is different.

Using Nate Silver as a reference is usually a bad idea. As smart as he is, he is usually just as equally ignorant. His polls and statistical analysis are quite in depth and I enjoy that, but being owned by the NYT and his "biases" are inherently obvious.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the%20Midwest
[/LIST]


The biggest problem I have with the Midwest is that there is the Great Lakes Region, the North Central, and the Plains regions, but when you look at what each of these produces, the Great Lakes is more coal orientated and timber where as the other two are traditional farming regions, which is why I argue Michigan and Ohio should be thrown out of the conversation.

If you read my first response, I did acknowledge your concession on Western Indiana.

Just as Silver's article points out, your definition of the Midwest seems to be based on where you're from and you're finding things that support it and downplaying anything that contradicts it. What biases are obvious in the article that I linked to? IMO it does a pretty good job of highlighting just how nebulous the Midwest is even to the people who think they live in it.

There is a lot of rich farmland in Ohio and Indiana.

Yes, I've been to Detroit and while it has a different character it is no less a Midwestern city than Milwaukee, Minneapolis/St. Paul, St. Louis or Kansas City. And a solid argument could be made that Chicago including the south side has been the cultural heart of the Midwest for 150 years. There is also a lot more to Michigan than Detroit. Lots of great people that fit the Midwestern stereotype (hard-working, down-to-earth, friendly, practical and family oriented).

There are a lot of ways to define the Midwest so using definitions that support your opinion doesn't makes for a good argument not a statement of fact.

[kalm]

So beating the #7 ranked team means nothing huh . You folks are a trip

Upsets happen and there's a chance UND didn't deserve the #7 ranking.

Polls can be flawed and over-rank certain teams. UND that year for example, had a fairly easy conference schedule so it was less of a surprise to some.

[Professor]

Hmm we don't deserve our ranking.... UND didn't deserve their number 7 ranking. Interesting to see how this is going

[Hammerhead]

We know UND didn't deserve the #7 seed in 2016 since they lost to a team that got destroyed the next week. The only way to tell who is best on the national scene is line up and play.

[kalm]

Hmm we don't deserve our ranking.... UND didn't deserve their number 7 ranking. Interesting to see how this is going

Their ranking was tested in the playoffs. Glad you're catching on.

[PantherRob82]

I know I drive fast and am a horrible driver, but there is not a chance in hell I would drive by myself from Fargo to Bozeman or Missoula in the same day. I would need someone to change spots so I could rest or I would have to stop and spend the night in Dickinson or Miles City as I refuse to drive 11+ hrs (using the speed limit) in one day unless I absolutely have to.

What a baby. xlolx

I’ve driven from Waterloo and Davenport to missoula straight through on at least 5 occasions including twice by myself. xcoffeex

[grizband]

I would probably rank NC A&T around 8-13, and really wish they participated in the playoffs this year. I get why the conferences support the bowl game, but always advocate for the bestFCS trams in the playoffs.

In the off topic post, Missoula is absolutely not in the Midwest. In fact, its closer to the Pacific northwest footprint.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Professor]

Their ranking was tested in the playoffs. Glad you're catching on.

Not catching anything. You and others just discredit others when it doesn't fit your narrative. And then you wonder why people don't pay FCS football any attention

[WileECoyote06]

xcoffeex

[kalm]

Not catching anything. You and others just discredit others when it doesn't fit your narrative. And then you wonder why people don't pay FCS football any attention

My narrative is that the FCS has scheduling disparities which are sometimes under-appreciated in the polls, playoff selections, and seeding. That regional, conference, and W-L bias are lazy data points when applied on their own.

I didn't realize that applying reason to these things turned people off of a FCS though. Lol.

[Professor]

My narrative is that the FCS has scheduling disparities which are sometimes under-appreciated in the polls, playoff selections, and seeding. That regional, conference, and W-L bias are lazy data points when applied on their own.

I didn't realize that applying reason to these things turned people off of a FCS though. Lol.

It's only bias is when it doesn't agree with your thinking. Your basically saying you know more than the FCS coaches and the FCS media who votes in these polls. Is that the case?

It's not applying reason , its your personal bias that unless your from a certain conference or play a certain team your inferior. That thought process is rabid on this site and imo is a reason for the lack of engagement. If its on this message board , it's my assumption its in the sports world as well. Who wants to be viewed as inferior

[TheKingpin28]

It's only bias is when it doesn't agree with your thinking. Your basically saying you know more than the FCS coaches and the FCS media who votes in these polls. Is that the case?

It's not applying reason , its your personal bias that unless your from a certain conference or play a certain team your inferior. That thought process is rabid on this site and imo is a reason for the lack of engagement. If its on this message board , it's my assumption its in the sports world as well. Who wants to be viewed as inferiorCoaches yes, media possibly.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

Coaches definitely yes

[Professor]

Bwhahahahahahaah

[Gil Dobie]

Bwhahaah Bias

Was Harvard ever ranked in the top ten before the end of the season

So you don't think there is a bias against teams that don't participate in the playoffs?

My final vote for the AGS poll, will probably put A&T in the top ten, but I think they will end up in the 10-15 range. I think they will move up on the coaches and Stats poll, maybe 5 and 7. Might rise up from #13 in the simple ratings system.

[TheKingpin28]

Bwhahahahahahaah


So you don't think there is a bias against teams that don't participate in the playoffs?

My final vote for the AGS poll, will probably put A&T in the top ten, but I think they will end up in the 10-15 range. I think they will move up on the coaches and Stats poll, maybe 5 and 7. Might rise up from #13 in the simple ratings system.

Give me the AGS over the Media/"Coaches" polls any day of the week. Most of the people on here know what they are doing. I know for a fact that the "Coaches" poll does not and the media poll generally causes me to shake my head.

[Professor]

So you don't think there is a bias against teams that don't participate in the playoffs?

My final vote for the AGS poll, will probably put A&T in the top ten, but I think they will end up in the 10-15 range. I think they will move up on the coaches and Stats poll, maybe 5 and 7. Might rise up from #13 in the simple ratings system.

Not so much teams not in playoffs but more so teams not in the CAA or MVFC.

[kalm]

It's only bias is when it doesn't agree with your thinking. Your basically saying you know more than the FCS coaches and the FCS media who votes in these polls. Is that the case?

It's not applying reason , its your personal bias that unless your from a certain conference or play a certain team your inferior. That thought process is rabid on this site and imo is a reason for the lack of engagement. If its on this message board , it's my assumption its in the sports world as well. Who wants to be viewed as inferior

Not at all but the aforementioned biases at least provide an explanation for certain poll results. And there are dozens of AGS voters who are every bit as informed and knowledgeable about the national landscape as the coaches and media polls. Furthermore, I know of at least one media poll voter who's disagreeing with you right here on this particular thread. xlolx

Conference affiliation is a lesser data point compared to W-L, SoS, quality wins, bad losses. I will acknowledge that you'll see it in some posts on this site, but it works both ways. Many voters post their polls in the AGS Poll Results thread, and their reasoning gets discussed and often checked. I've seen certain pollsters improve their voting habits as a season progresses. That's a good thing and another tool to help raise the collective consciousness of the entire poll.

Teams from quality conferences get over-valued sometimes, glossy records get overvalued, previous conference strength gets misapplied from year to year when a conference is clearly down, etc. That's why you consider multiple data points, weigh them accordingly, and strip away your own biases as much as possible.

And again, as is often pointed out, AGS pollsters tend to be harder on their own teams and conferences. Call it an anti-bias, bias.

[TheKingpin28]

Not at all but the aforementioned biases at least provide an explanation for certain poll results. And there are dozens of AGS voters who are every bit as informed and knowledgeable about the national landscape as the coaches and media polls. Furthermore, I know of at least one media poll voter who's disagreeing with you right here on this particular thread. xlolx

Conference affiliation is a lesser data point compared to W-L, SoS, quality wins, bad losses. I will acknowledge that you'll see it in some posts on this site, but it works both ways. Many voters post their polls in the AGS Poll Results thread, and their reasoning gets discussed and often checked. I've seen certain pollsters improve their voting habits as a season progresses. That's a good thing and another tool to help raise the collective consciousness of the entire poll.

Teams from quality conferences get over-valued sometimes, glossy records get overvalued, previous conference strength gets misapplied from year to year when a conference is clearly down, etc. That's why you consider multiple data points, weigh them accordingly, and strip away your own biases as much as possible.

And again, as is often pointed out, AGS pollsters tend to be harder on their own teams and conferences. Call it an anti-bias, bias.

I was enjoying this and then you tipped your hand... xlolx

[Professor Chaos]

It's only bias is when it doesn't agree with your thinking. Your basically saying you know more than the FCS coaches and the FCS media who votes in these polls. Is that the case?

It's not applying reason , its your personal bias that unless your from a certain conference or play a certain team your inferior. That thought process is rabid on this site and imo is a reason for the lack of engagement. If its on this message board , it's my assumption its in the sports world as well. Who wants to be viewed as inferior
I wouldn't necessarily say the average AGS voter knows more about the FCS or football in general than the average STATS or Coaches poll voter does but I'd definitely say that the average AGS poll voter puts more thought and effort into voting than the average STATS or Coaches poll voter does.

[Milktruck74]

Not at all but the aforementioned biases at least provide an explanation for certain poll results. And there are dozens of AGS voters who are every bit as informed and knowledgeable about the national landscape as the coaches and media polls. Furthermore, I know of at least one media poll voter who's disagreeing with you right here on this particular thread. xlolx

Conference affiliation is a lesser data point compared to W-L, SoS, quality wins, bad losses. I will acknowledge that you'll see it in some posts on this site, but it works both ways. Many voters post their polls in the AGS Poll Results thread, and their reasoning gets discussed and often checked. I've seen certain pollsters improve their voting habits as a season progresses. That's a good thing and another tool to help raise the collective consciousness of the entire poll.

Teams from quality conferences get over-valued sometimes, glossy records get overvalued, previous conference strength gets misapplied from year to year when a conference is clearly down, etc. That's why you consider multiple data points, weigh them accordingly, and strip away your own biases as much as possible.

And again, as is often pointed out, AGS pollsters tend to be harder on their own teams and conferences. Call it an anti-bias, bias.

I actually stopped voting in the poll this year (a first for me), when may of my top ten lost to lower competition....I thought, I'm not worthy of this poll.....I suck at prognosticating. That said, A&T is probably a 20-30 FCS team. They won 12 games, and that is impressive, but there is at least 19 teams (and probably closer to 29) in the FCS that would line up and beat them on ANY GIVEN SATURDAY on the field!!! Lots of talent, lots of atmosphere, great band, but mediocre football.

[Twentysix]

AGS definitely has the highest average accuracy of any fcs poll. So yes, when you are talking about the conglomerate voting bodies, and comparing them, the AGS poll is the only one worth anything.

I think that there are media voters that are awesome. But collectively the voting bodies suck. The coaches poll is the worst.

I only had time to watch about 45 fcs games this year, so I elected to not participate in voting because my body of knowledge was to limited for the season.

In past years I have watched 45 fcs games by week 2 or 3

If you are only watching 11-12 fcs games a year, you don't know a thing about the fcs.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[Professor]

I actually stopped voting in the poll this year (a first for me), when may of my top ten lost to lower competition....I thought, I'm not worthy of this poll.....I suck at prognosticating. That said, A&T is probably a 20-30 FCS team. They won 12 games, and that is impressive, but there is at least 19 teams (and probably closer to 29) in the FCS that would line up and beat them on ANY GIVEN SATURDAY on the field!!! Lots of talent, lots of atmosphere, great band, but mediocre football.

But is your opinion still valid seeing that the teams you held in high regard lost to teams that in your opinion weren't as good as the top 10 you ranked. Could it be your might be discounting A&T and given more to teams who might not deserve it .

No disrespect, just a thought

- - - Updated - - -


AGS definitely has the highest average accuracy of any fcs poll. So yes, when you are talking about the conglomerate voting bodies, and comparing them, the AGS poll is the only one worth anything.

I think that there are media voters that are awesome. But collectively the voting bodies suck. The coaches poll is the worst.

I only had time to watch about 45 fcs games this year, so I elected to not participate in voting because my body of knowledge was to limited for the season.

In past years I have watched 45 fcs games by week 2 or 3

If you are only watching 11-12 fcs games a year, you don't know a thing about the fcs.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

So why are those other polls posted on here? Why isn't the AGS poll the one that is respected via the national media

[PantherRob82]

So why are those other polls posted on here? Why isn't the AGS poll the one that is respected via the national media

-For discussion
-Because they don't vote in it

Who do you think has more time to watch games: A fan sitting at home watching football all day or a member of the media who travels to the game location and watches a game? I'll hang up and listen.

[WileECoyote06]

I actually stopped voting in the poll this year (a first for me), when may of my top ten lost to lower competition....I thought, I'm not worthy of this poll.....I suck at prognosticating. That said, A&T is probably a 20-30 FCS team. They won 12 games, and that is impressive, but there is at least 19 teams (and probably closer to 29) in the FCS that would line up and beat them on ANY GIVEN SATURDAY on the field!!! Lots of talent, lots of atmosphere, great band, but mediocre football.

This works both ways. But in this case, only one of the 19 teams is undefeated. That team should get the benefit of the doubt. You don't have to rank them #1, but you should respect the accomplishment.

It amazes me, that a team that is not considered a threat is this polarizing. Congrats Farmers, you are the 2017 FCS Sam Houston State Award winner aka the Sammies. Take a bow.

[kalm]

This works both ways. But in this case, only one of the 19 teams is undefeated. That team should get the benefit of the doubt. You don't have to rank them #1, but you should respect the accomplishment.

It amazes me, that a team that is not considered a threat is this polarizing. Congrats Farmers, you are the 2017 FCS Sam Houston State Award winner aka the Sammies. Take a bow.

I think it's a great accomplishment.

[Redbird 4th & short]

AGS definitely has the highest average accuracy of any fcs poll. So yes, when you are talking about the conglomerate voting bodies, and comparing them, the AGS poll is the only one worth anything.

I think that there are media voters that are awesome. But collectively the voting bodies suck. The coaches poll is the worst.

I only had time to watch about 45 fcs games this year, so I elected to not participate in voting because my body of knowledge was to limited for the season.

In past years I have watched 45 fcs games by week 2 or 3

If you are only watching 11-12 fcs games a year, you don't know a thing about the fcs.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

I think the reason AGS usually does the best job of all the subjective polls is because there is transparency, accountability, and debate .. tends to make things more objective. You don't get that on any level with FCP coaches poll. Nor do you get it on the STATS poll. What can we expect when you have mostly lazy uninformed voters voting with zero accountability, transparency or debate. They do what they want and go back to their day job.

Adopt a SOS system, and put that index next to the records. At least then when a voter sees he just ranked an 8-0 team who played there 103rd ranked schedule ahead of a 6-2 team who has played a top 10 SOS .. he might think twice a week later when he see the 8-0 team beat another bottom 20 team by just 10 points, and the 6-2 team beats a top 20 team by same 10 points. Also, they should publish the voting records so there could be some scrutiny .. even if the voters ignore it.

Case in point .. look at the beating UNH AD Scarano took when UNH made playoff over Delaware ... that is healthy debate .. if you're trying to do this right, that is.

But FCS selection committee did take a positive step by announcing the top 10 leading up to game weeks 9 & 10. Not sure why they don't also do one before week 11 .. but this is a start. What it does is creates debate leading up to actual selection, which can only help the FCS committee .. transparency is a good thing .. I'm sure they listened for the backlash just to make sure they didn't do anything really stupid.

[Catbooster]

I would probably rank NC A&T around 8-13, and really wish they participated in the playoffs this year. I get why the conferences support the bowl game, but always advocate for the bestFCS trams in the playoffs.

In the off topic post, Missoula is absolutely not in the Midwest. In fact, its closer to the Pacific northwest footprint.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Oh come on. I suppose next, to justify your geography bias, you'll try claiming that anywhere roughly 100 miles west of the continental divide and 200 miles west of the Rocky Mountain front should not be considered part of the Midwest.


xeyebrowx ;) xlolx

[grizband]

Oh come on. I suppose next, to justify your geography bias, you'll try claiming that anywhere roughly 100 miles west of the continental divide and 200 miles west of the Rocky Mountain front should not be considered part of the Midwest.


xeyebrowx ;) xlolxEssentially... Yes ;)

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[kalm]

Oh come on. I suppose next, to justify your geography bias, you'll try claiming that anywhere roughly 100 miles west of the continental divide and 200 miles west of the Rocky Mountain front should not be considered part of the Midwest.


xeyebrowx ;) xlolx

200 miles west of the Rocky Mountain front? I can see the foothills of the Rockies from my porch and I'm 400 miles from Bozeman.

[cx500d]

200 miles west of the Rocky Mountain front? I can see the foothills of the Rockies from my porch and I'm 400 miles from Bozeman.


front is a matter of perspective

[Hammerhead]

A quick google search found a few maps of the Midwest that included a few counties in NE Montana. Most put Montana in the West and put the Dakotas in the Midwest, Upper Midwest, or Great Plains. IMHO, the western half of the Dakotas is more Western than Midwestern.


Oh come on. I suppose next, to justify your geography bias, you'll try claiming that anywhere roughly 100 miles west of the continental divide and 200 miles west of the Rocky Mountain front should not be considered part of the Midwest.


xeyebrowx ;) xlolx

[major095]

Who did you eye test them against? I saw a lot of stupid unforced errors in the CB. They have some good individual talent, but the SWAC and MEAC always have great individual players. They just don’t put together good teams when tested. I’d be shocked if they beat any top 10 teams.
alabama state had KSU beaten. That KSU team went on to whip up the FCS then the swac isn't as bad as one might think.

[semobison]

A quick google search found a few maps of the Midwest that included a few counties in NE Montana. Most put Montana in the West and put the Dakotas in the Midwest, Upper Midwest, or Great Plains. IMHO, the western half of the Dakotas is more Western than Midwestern.

There is a sign in Dickinson ND that says, "Dickinson, where the west begins"...so...yeah that must be it!

[Laker]

There is a sign in Dickinson ND that says, "Dickinson, where the west begins"...so...yeah that must be it!

Kerkhoven, MN where I used to teach had the "Kerkhoven, where the west begins." Someone must be franchising those signs.

[Twentysix]

Kerkhoven, MN where I used to teach had the "Kerkhoven, where the west begins." Someone must be franchising those signs.I think Mandan had that sign too

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[PantherRob82]

alabama state had KSU beaten. That KSU team went on to whip up the FCS then the swac isn't as bad as one might think.

OR, KSU was on the road and got better as the season went on...that's why the playoffs are nice. ;)

[Redbird 4th & short]

alabama state had KSU beaten. That KSU team went on to whip up the FCS then the swac isn't as bad as one might think.

Is this the same 4-7 Alabama St that beat Miss Valley St by just 6 ... who lost to NDSU by 65 and SIU by 52 and CSU by 51.

Or look at all 4 of Alabama State's wins (Massey Composite #99):

- beat 3-8 Jackson St by 10 ... ranked in Massey Composite at #110
- beat 4-7 Alabama A&M by 5 .. ranked Massey Composite at #109
- beat 2-9 TX Southern by 7 ... ranked Massey Composite at #119
- Beat 2-9 Miss Valley St by 6 ... ranked Massey Composite at #123

A week after beating Alabama St by just 6, KSU beat D-II 4-6 North Greenfield by just 4. I don't know what KSU did to improve so much in latter half of their season, but they were 2 different teams from start to end of season. That's some serious in season coaching there.

If you're going to cherry pick a game to make a point .. at least look at a few games first .. any given saturday !!! Or just let Massey (or Massey Composite) do the work for you.

[Panther88]

Dang, 31 pages of nothingness. I'm sure the alums and supporters of NCA&T could give a rats ass or its left tittly what we outsiders think of their program, both negatives and positives, as they continue to support their program.

If it needs to be settled, simply convey to your AD/scheduling folks to get w/ their AD/scheduling folks for a lucrative deal that makes cents as well as sense so they do not incur a negative hit w/ their brand. 2 simple.

[Southern Bison]

200 miles west of the Rocky Mountain front? I can see the foothills of the Rockies from my porch and I'm 400 miles from Bozeman.You're looking at the ass of the Rockies!
front is a matter of perspective

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Professor]

Dang, 31 pages of nothingness. I'm sure the alums and supporters of NCA&T could give a rats ass or its left tittly what we outsiders think of their program, both negatives and positives, as they continue to support their program.

If it needs to be settled, simply convey to your AD/scheduling folks to get w/ their AD/scheduling folks for a lucrative deal that makes cents as well as sense so they do not incur a negative hit w/ their brand. 2 simple.

EXACTLY.

I would like to nominate this for post of the year in 2018

[Redbird 4th & short]

I agree with beating the #12 team that should move us up to number 5

your first post on this thread titled "NC A&T Final Poll Placement" ... so please clarify your actual point again for the record .. this or that ? You can only pick one .. final answer ?

[TheKingpin28]

your first post on this thread titled "NC A&T Final Poll Placement" ... so please clarify your actual point again for the record .. this or that ? You can only pick one .. final answer ?

Don't even try. I called him out and he kept moving the goalposts to try and score points to only dig his grave even further.

[Hammerhead]

Kerkhoven, MN where I used to teach had the "Kerkhoven, where the west begins." Someone must be franchising those signs.

Fargo's slogan used to be "Gateway to the West" which is probably where Gate City Bank (sponsor of the Fargodome turf) probably got it's name. The Fargo Police still use the old slogan.

http://www.wdaz.com/sites/default/files/styles/16x9_620/public/field/image/Fargo%20PD_3.jpg?itok=v8-rBGeP

[POD Knows]

Fargo's slogan used to be "Gateway to the West" which is probably where Gate City Bank (sponsor of the Fargodome turf) probably got it's name. The Fargo Police still use the old slogan.

http://www.wdaz.com/sites/default/files/styles/16x9_620/public/field/image/Fargo%20PD_3.jpg?itok=v8-rBGePWow, that is a really lame ripoff of the St Louis "Gateway to the West". Did Fargo come out with that after the actual arch was built in St Louis??

[Redbird 4th & short]

Don't even try. I called him out and he kept moving the goalposts to try and score points to only dig his grave even further.
i know .. you'd think I'd learn not to take the bait.

but this whole argument is worthwhile debate ... how to rank teams the most objectively and fairly. Ultimately, it has real consequences .. not only on playoff selections, but also on how coaches are evaluated, and how it helps them recruit players, and get fans to turn out more, and donors to contribute more. And if you are ISUr looking to hire 5 departed coaches .. it helps you hire better coaches. Everyone wants to win and be ranked and make playoffs .. only 1 team can win it all .. that is NOT the only measure of success that matters .. being competitive matters. And as I said earlier, I would rather go 6-5 against a top 10 SOS than 12-0 against the 103rd ranked SOS ... no brainer for me.

[Professor]

your first post on this thread titled "NC A&T Final Poll Placement" ... so please clarify your actual point again for the record .. this or that ? You can only pick one .. final answer ?

I said that trying to contribute to the discussion.

But the other gentleman speaks to the true feelings of every AGGIE. WE DON'T CARE where we are ranked. Don't rank us , it doesn't take away what we accomplished.

- - - Updated - - -


Don't even try. I called him out and he kept moving the goalposts to try and score points to only dig his grave even further.

if you would rather me come and post basically i don't give a F*&^ instead of trying to contribute to the discussion , i will. Just let me know how you want me to contribute on this forum and do so accordingly

[Redbird 4th & short]

I said that trying to contribute to the discussion.

But the other gentleman speaks to the true feelings of every AGGIE. WE DON'T CARE where we are ranked. Don't rank us , it doesn't take away what we accomplished.

- - - Updated - - -



if you would rather me come and post basically i don't give a F*&^ instead of trying to contribute to the discussion , i will. Just let me know how you want me to contribute on this forum and do so accordingly

i think the point is you can't engage in a debate on merit that your team is worthy of high ranking, and when very objective data is presented, act like it doesn't say what it says .. that is, zero impressive wins. Then reverse course and walk it back, side with another poster saying the rankings don't matter, and NC A&T don't care anyway.

This thread is about NC A&T final poll placement ... it is not about, does NC A&T admin care about their final poll.

p.s. I don't begrudge NC A&T success managing their football program the way they do ... but don't tell me that 12-0 deserves #5 ranking, simply because they went 12-0 .. and expect people not to argue. NC A&T got an undeserved bid just last year .. it matters .. another more deserving team stayed home.

[Professor]

i think the point is you can't engage in a debate on merit that your team is worthy of high ranking, and when very objective data is presented, act like it doesn't say what it says .. that is, zero impressive wins. Then reverse course and walk it back, side with another poster saying the rankings don't matter, and NC A&T don't care anyway.

This thread is about NC A&T final poll placement ... it is not about, does NC A&T admin care about their final poll.

p.s. I don't begrudge NC A&T success managing their football program the way they do ... but don't tell me that 12-0 deserves #5 ranking, simply because they went 12-0 .. and expect people not to argue. NC A&T got an undeserved bid just last year .. it matters .. another more deserving team stayed home.

Impressive to who? We play who is on our schedule. Have your AD call ours , we play who will play us. I've posted our OOC victories over the last 5 years. Your still not impressed. I doubt if we even played and beat NDSU or JMU , you would be. The reason being is you feel like we are inferior. That's why i give the statement no one is really concerned what FCS thinksin the A&T universe.

As for poll placement , i doubt we drop.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Impressive to who? We play who is on our schedule. Have your AD call ours , we play who will play us. I've posted our OOC victories over the last 5 years. Your still not impressed. I doubt if we even played and beat NDSU or JMU , you would be. The reason being is you feel like we are inferior. That's why i give the statement no one is really concerned what FCS thinksin the A&T universe.

As for poll placement , i doubt we drop.
Impressive to anyone who looks an inch beneath the surface and realizes you barely beat a bunch of teams ranked 35 to 60 .. aka .. no impressive wins. Still waiting for you to name just 1 impressive win. ISUr was 6-5 and can name 3 very impressive wins. Name 1 and provide supporting argument for why that win was impressive ... you mentioned beating #14 Grambling .. so make your best pitch for Grambling being a good team .. look at their schedule, their resume .. tell us how they are worthy of #14 .. as opposed to say #34 pe Massey Composite. Then we can debate that. I'll give you a running start .. here is Grambling results:

https://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2988&s=295489

p.s. I have near zero confidence in FCP Coaches Poll and just slightly more confidence in STATS poll .. they have consistently proven themselves to be lazy, uninformed, and regonally biased as a result.

[PantherRob82]

Guys, they don’t care. They just keep arguing for no reason. :)

[TheKingpin28]

Guys, they don’t care. They just keep arguing for no reason. :)Kind of like their football games?

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[OhioHen]

Better than all first round and second round playoff losers. Ahead of all QF losers except Weber State. Might have to put them ahead of SHSU.

That leaves my ranking as:

1. Winner of JMU-NDSU
2. Loser of JMU-NDSU
3. SDSU if NDSU wins title, WSU if JMU wins it
4. SDSU/WSU depending on title game
5. NCA&T or SHSU
6. NCA&T or SHSU

[Hammerhead]

You guys should hang a "national championship" banner like UCF is doing.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gators/2018/01/03/ucf-is-really-claiming-a-national-championship/

I wonder if Auburn really gave it their all since they would have rather been playing in a different bowl game. I guess we'll never know.

[POD Knows]

You guys should hang a "national championship" banner like UCF is doing.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/gators/2018/01/03/ucf-is-really-claiming-a-national-championship/

I wonder if Auburn really gave it their all since they would have rather been playing in a different bowl game. I guess we'll never know.Big difference between UCF and AT & T (yea, I said AT & T, it is easy to remember) NCAT and their conference CHOOSE not to participate, UCF was in the hunt. It would be nice if the NCAA would expand that championship to 8 teams.

[kalm]

Big difference between UCF and AT & T (yea, I said AT & T, it is easy to remember) NCAT and their conference CHOOSE not to participate, UCF was in the hunt. It would be nice if the NCAA would expand that championship to 8 teams.

And quality wins.

[Twentysix]

Big difference between UCF and AT & T (yea, I said AT & T, it is easy to remember) NCAT and their conference CHOOSE not to participate, UCF was in the hunt. It would be nice if the NCAA would expand that championship to 8 teams.

12 teams imo. Give all the P5s an autobid to their champ and mandate that one of the 12 bids must always go to a G5 team.

The top 4 teams get first round bye. The G5 forms some kind of group to select their collective autobid every year.

[Redbird 4th & short]

12 teams imo. Give all the P5s an autobid to their champ and mandate that one of the 12 bids must always go to a G5 team.

The top 4 teams get first round bye. The G5 forms some kind of group to select their collective autobid every year.

they'll never give up the bowl games. So i like the 4 team format, but would think an 8 team format would be perfect for FBS given they will always have the bowl games. Keep all the other bowl games scheduled however they do today. But pick the 8 teams, and schedule the first round of games in mid December; give the 4 winners a 2 week break, then squeeze the final 4 in between holidays; give 2 winners another 2 week break and still get the Natty in by early January.

just thinking out loud .. but I do like the idea of 8 team playoff for FBS Natty, in addition to bowl games. And yes, this will further diminish the bowl games, but aren't we already at that point anyway ? And I think an 8 team playoff (circle seeded) with games every 2 weeks would make a killing

[Twentysix]

they'll never give up the bowl games. So i like the 4 team format, but would think an 8 team format would be perfect for FBS given they will always have the bowl games. Keep all the other bowl games scheduled however they do today. But pick the 8 teams, and schedule the first round of games in mid December; give the 4 winners a 2 week break, then squeeze the final 4 in between holidays; give 2 winners another 2 week break and still get the Natty in by early January.

just thinking out loud .. but I do like the idea of 8 team playoff for FBS Natty, in addition to bowl games. And yes, this will further diminish the bowl games, but aren't we already at that point anyway ? And I think an 8 team playoff (circle seeded) with games every 2 weeks would make a killing

If they want to capture america instead of just capturing FBS football fans, they need to give the G5 some kind of guaranteed representation every year. Its the reason EVERYONE likes the NCAA tournament. Iowa will never be the Cinderella that Central Florida/Wyoming/Boise State/Northern Illinois could have been, and that is a large part of what gives the NCAA mens tourney magic for the average joe.

[Redbird 4th & short]

If they want to capture america instead of just capturing FBS football fans, they need to give the G5 some kind of guaranteed representation every year. Its the reason EVERYONE likes the NCAA tournament. Iowa will never be the Cinderella that Central Florida/Wyoming/Boise State/Northern Illinois could have been, and that is a large part of what gives the NCAA mens tourney magic for the average joe.

I'm not a fan of auto bids at FCS level with 24 team format. I do like the auto bids in basketball, but ONLY because you have 68 team format.

Reasoning being, in FCS 24 team format, in addition to the usual 2-3 flawed at large picks, there are usually 3-4 auto bids who have no business being in playoffs each year. Issue being, there are alway a handful of legit top 20-25 teams being left out of 24 team format. That just doesn't happen in a 68 team playoff format like basketball.

Ironically last basketball season, ISUr basketball was on the NCAA bubble at 25-5 and 2nd best MVC team. So even though they probably deserved one of the last 5 at large bids, they were out because of auto bids. But ISUr was maybe a top 50 to 60 team at best .. they were 25-5 against the 100th ranked SOS .. so while I feel they earned a bid in 68 team format, I was not too surprised or bothered they were left out .. they were not anywhere near a top 25 team that would contend for sweet 16 even.

For FCS football with 100 or so playoff eligible teams, I think the 24 team format is perfect playoff system .. other than, we need to get rid of the auto bids. if you are in a weak FCS conference and want playoff consideration for going 9-2 or 12-0, you better have played 2 good nonconf games to prove yourself .. simple as that.

[POD Knows]

I'm not a fan of auto bids at FCS level with 24 team format. I do like the auto bids in basketball, but ONLY because you have 68 team format.

Reasoning being, in FCS 24 team format, in addition to the usual 2-3 flawed at large picks, there are usually 3-4 auto bids who have no business being in playoffs each year. Issue being, there are alway a handful of legit top 20-25 teams being left out of 24 team format. That just doesn't happen in a 68 team playoff format like basketball.

Ironically last basketball season, ISUr basketball was on the NCAA bubble at 25-5 and 2nd best MVC team. So even though they probably deserved one of the last 5 at large bids, they were out because of auto bids. But ISUr was maybe a top 50 to 60 team at best .. they were 25-5 against the 100th ranked SOS .. so while I feel they earned a bid in 68 team format, I was not too surprised or bothered they were left out .. they were not anywhere near a top 25 team that would contend for sweet 16 even.Just out of curiosity, who do feel got left out the FCS playoffs this year.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Just out of curiosity, who do feel got left out the FCS playoffs this year.

for starters, EWU and Delaware for sure, both deserved bids over UNH, Nicholls St, and Monmouth. So with 1 more spot to fill, my next in bubble teams would be teams like Montana, then UNH, then maybe Cal St - Sac or Nicholls St. But I really don't want to restart the pissing match we already had.

have no desire to argue further about auto bids .. but some are very obvious, starting with Lehigh.

[Professor]

Just out of curiosity, who do feel got left out the FCS playoffs this year.

Why not expand the playoffs by 4 teams so everyone has a 1st round game

[BisonFan02]

Why not expand the playoffs by 4 teams so everyone has a 1st round game

Or contract it to 16 and seed every team.

[ElCid]

I'm not a fan of auto bids at FCS level with 24 team format. I do like the auto bids in basketball, but ONLY because you have 68 team format.

Reasoning being, in FCS 24 team format, in addition to the usual 2-3 flawed at large picks, there are usually 3-4 auto bids who have no business being in playoffs each year. Issue being, there are alway a handful of legit top 20-25 teams being left out of 24 team format. That just doesn't happen in a 68 team playoff format like basketball.

Ironically last basketball season, ISUr basketball was on the NCAA bubble at 25-5 and 2nd best MVC team. So even though they probably deserved one of the last 5 at large bids, they were out because of auto bids. But ISUr was maybe a top 50 to 60 team at best .. they were 25-5 against the 100th ranked SOS .. so while I feel they earned a bid in 68 team format, I was not too surprised or bothered they were left out .. they were not anywhere near a top 25 team that would contend for sweet 16 even.

For FCS football with 100 or so playoff eligible teams, I think the 24 team format is perfect playoff system .. other than, we need to get rid of the auto bids. if you are in a weak FCS conference and want playoff consideration for going 9-2 or 12-0, you better have played 2 good nonconf games to prove yourself .. simple as that.

So in regard to the autobids, kind of like San Diego? This is an old argument. I like the autobids. Win your conf, go to the playoffs. Want to go? Win your conference. It is one of the objective strengths of our playoff system. At larges are too subjective many times. Sure we will get a stinker at times, but that is ok and an easy price to pay in order to ensure at least some teams are outside of the subjective arena.

[Redbird 4th & short]

So in regard to the autobids, kind of like San Diego? This is an old argument. I like the autobids. Win your conf, go to the playoffs. Want to go? Win your conference. It is one of the objective strengths of our playoff system. At larges are too subjective many times. Sure we will get a stinker at times, but that is ok and an easy price to pay in order to ensure at least some teams are outside of the subjective arena.

but at the expense of more deserving teams .. again, I like the concept for 68 team format for ncaa basketball for same reason you do. But when talking about 24 team format ... I hate it. especially the teams rom weak conferences who further avoid FBS games or tough FCS games too. Just doesn't make sense to reward teams who play weak schedules, some of which take advantage .. that isn't playoff worthy behavior, and the current auto bid system encourages teams to schedule easy OOC.

[Derby City Duke]

UCF failed to make the playoff with a better SOS against their level of competition. Looking at the 11 teams in front of them, I can't see one who is too obviously overrated (one could question Auburn, but they did beat Georgia and Alabama...).

SOS obviously hurt by the loss of the Georgia Tech game due to the hurricane and Maryland was not good either; the bottom line is SOS matters, and it should.

You could make a reasonable (how reasonable would be based on the respective fan base) argument that NDSU could have held the #1 ranking as the regular season progressed. JMU's win over ECU was not an upset and, given the putridness of ECU's season, was less valuable by week 11 anyway. To me the only tangible difference between #1 and#2 in the polls or bracket is which sideline you get in Frisco. The CAA is a very good conference that appears not to finally be rebuilding the depth it had 10 years ago, but the MVFC is still better at this point.

I watched the CB and thought the Aggies played well! I don't know how they would stack up against the rest of FCS, and that to me it the crux of the issue for AGS voters (I am not one, so this is an observer's opinion) With the MEAC not participating in the playoffs, the voters only have historical perspective available to them in terms of league quality. History tells them this:

From '03 - '17 the MEAC has placed 1 team in the bracket 11 times, 2 teams twice, and 0 teams twice. Their cumulative playoff record is 0-15 with an average margin of loss of 18 points -- only 4 games have been decided by less than 10 points. The average MEAC playoff loss is a 3-possession game. That is why I think the voters don't give you as much respect in the poll, seeing you as a team that is not top-10 worthy.

My xtwocentsx

[POD Knows]

Why not expand the playoffs by 4 teams so everyone has a 1st round gameNope, the season for football is too long already, efforts need to be made to reduce the number of games. I would actually favor an 8 team playoff and get rid of the chaff that have no chance of winning.

[Derby City Duke]

Why not expand the playoffs by 4 teams so everyone has a 1st round game

I realize my figurin' skills are normally shaky, but I believe expanding the field by 4 would still not give all teams a 1st round game. It creates a field of 28 which would require 12 first round games to reduce the field to 16:

#1 - #4 seeds get byes
12 1st round winners gets us to the round of 16

Increase the field by 8 to 32 and you have a boatload more crappy football than the 1st weekend normally produces.

[kalm]

UCF failed to make the playoff with a better SOS against their level of competition. Looking at the 11 teams in front of them, I can't see one who is too obviously overrated (one could question Auburn, but they did beat Georgia and Alabama...).

SOS obviously hurt by the loss of the Georgia Tech game due to the hurricane and Maryland was not good either; the bottom line is SOS matters, and it should.

You could make a reasonable (how reasonable would be based on the respective fan base) argument that NDSU could have held the #1 ranking as the regular season progressed. JMU's win over ECU was not an upset and, given the putridness of ECU's season, was less valuable by week 11 anyway. To me the only tangible difference between #1 and#2 in the polls or bracket is which sideline you get in Frisco. The CAA is a very good conference that appears not to finally be rebuilding the depth it had 10 years ago, but the MVFC is still better at this point.

I watched the CB and thought the Aggies played well! I don't know how they would stack up against the rest of FCS, and that to me it the crux of the issue for AGS voters (I am not one, so this is an observer's opinion) With the MEAC not participating in the playoffs, the voters only have historical perspective available to them in terms of league quality. History tells them this:

From '03 - '17 the MEAC has placed 1 team in the bracket 11 times, 2 teams twice, and 0 teams twice. Their cumulative playoff record is 0-15 with an average margin of loss of 18 points -- only 4 games have been decided by less than 10 points. The average MEAC playoff loss is a 3-possession game. That is why I think the voters don't give you as much respect in the poll, seeing you as a team that is not top-10 worthy.

My xtwocentsx

A most excellent post right here.

[Professor]

I realize my figurin' skills are normally shaky, but I believe expanding the field by 4 would still not give all teams a 1st round game. It creates a field of 28 which would require 12 first round games to reduce the field to 16:

#1 - #4 seeds get byes
12 1st round winners gets us to the round of 16

Increase the field by 8 to 32 and you have a boatload more crappy football than the 1st weekend normally produces.

Yes you are correct. Make it 32. That way all these teams who are deserving get in. Its 124 FCS teams so 32 is a decent size. That's 26% of FCS makes it

[Twentysix]

Yes you are correct. Make it 32. That way all these teams who are deserving get in. Its 124 FCS teams so 32 is a decent size. That's 26% of FCS makes it

We could also do away with the regular season and just have a 124 team winner takes all bracket. If you lose in week 1 your year is over.

I'd love an NDSU vs NC A & T matchup to start the year :)

[WestCoastAggie]

Big difference between UCF and AT & T (yea, I said AT & T, it is easy to remember) NCAT and their conference CHOOSE not to participate, UCF was in the hunt. It would be nice if the NCAA would expand that championship to 8 teams.

You’re a douche, btw.

[WestCoastAggie]

We could also do away with the regular season and just have a 124 team winner takes all bracket. If you lose in week 1 your year is over.

I'd love an NDSU vs NC A & T matchup to start the year :)

Me too but I don’t think our schools feel as such.

[POD Knows]

You’re a douche, btw.Why, because I called NCAT "At&T"? I corrected it in the next thing I posted there.

[WestCoastAggie]

Why, because I called NCAT "At&T"? I corrected it in the next thing I posted there.

I know. Just messing around with you.

[PantherRob82]

AT&T xlolx

[BisonFan02]

What does A&T stand for? Air Force Ones and Tanqueray? xsmiley_wix

Alize and Tacos

[Professor]

We could also do away with the regular season and just have a 124 team winner takes all bracket. If you lose in week 1 your year is over.

I'd love an NDSU vs NC A & T matchup to start the year :)

Would save hella money on travel. I doubt NDSU wants to play us. They like the Delaware State and Mississippi Valley states of HBCU ball

[kalm]

Would save hella money on travel. I doubt NDSU wants to play us. They like the Delaware State and Mississippi Valley states of HBCU ball

Yeah because they haven't scheduled Montana, CSU, EWU, UND, Weber, OOC the last 5 years...

Keep thinking that's the case though...lol

[WestCoastAggie]

Alize and Tacos

A few NCCU chumps call us Alcoholics and Tramps. Ignorant busters.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Would save hella money on travel. I doubt NDSU wants to play us. They like the Delaware State and Mississippi Valley states of HBCU ball

Trolling ?? I'll take the bait again. Putting aside NDSU typically playing a top 5 SOS every year .. including playing and beating decent FBS teams, very good FCS teams, and one patsy, and then the MVFC 8 game juggernaut, and then the 4 game playoff run against top FCS teams.

But by all means, let's drill down on the 1 patsy they played this year, and do a short daisy chain exercise:

- NDSU beat MVSU by 65
- MVSU beat Ark Pine Bluff by 7 .. MVSU was also 2-9 ranked 124
- Grambling beat Ark Pine Bluff by 5 .. Ark Pine Bluff was 2-9, ranked 122

Which means Miss Vallley St would beat Grambling by 2 ... but wait, Grambling was ranked #14 by the FCP Coaches Poll .. how can this be ???

And who was NC A&T best win ? ... It's right on the tip of my tongue ....... uh ..... oh right, it was Grambling by 7.

So NC A&T is just 2 teams removed from and would beat Miss Valley St by a whopping comparative score of 5 points !!!

Wow ... that 7 point Grambling win was something else .. that screams top 5 ranking tight there.

p.s. your next best win was .... Bethune Cook by 4 ... care to play another round ???

[BisonFan02]

Trolling ?? I'll take the bait again. Putting aside NDSU typically playing a top 5 SOS every year .. including playing and beating decent FBS teams, very good FCS teams, and one patsy, and then the MVFC 8 game juggernaut, and then the 4 game playoff run against top FCS teams.

But by all means, let's drill down on the 1 patsy they played this year, and do a short daisy chain exercise:

- NDSU beat MVSU by 65
- MVSU beat Ark Pine Bluff by 7 .. MVSU was also 2-9 ranked 124
- Grambling beat Ark Pine Bluff by 5 .. Ark Pine Bluff was 2-9, ranked 122

Which means Miss Vallley St would beat Grambling by 2 ... but wait, Grambling was ranked #14 by the FCP Coaches Poll .. how can this be ???

And who was NC A&T best win ? ... It's right on the tip of my tongue ....... uh ..... oh right, it was Grambling by 7.

So NC A&T is just 2 teams removed from and would beat Miss Valley St by a whopping comparative score of 5 points !!!

Wow ... that 7 point Grambling win was something else .. that screams top 5 ranking tight there.

p.s. your next best win was .... Bethune Cook by 4 ... care to play another round ???

Get em Donny! xlolx

[POD Knows]

Would save hella money on travel. I doubt NDSU wants to play us. They like the Delaware State and Mississippi Valley states of HBCU ballYea, we never play anybody any good on our OOC. Christ

[PantherRob82]

Yea, we never play anybody any good on our OOC. Christ
You guys are ducking Christ

[POD Knows]

You guys are ducking Christ

Christ, look at this brutal OOC, Christ, damn, all home games too, Christ



Sat.
9/1/2018


Cal Poly
Fargo, N.D.
TBA
Details


Sat.
9/15/2018


North Alabama
Fargo, N.D.
TBA
Details


Sat.
9/22/2018


Delaware (Homecoming)
Fargo, N.D.
TBA
Details

[WestCoastAggie]

Christ, look at this brutal OOC, Christ, damn, all home games too, Christ



Sat.
9/1/2018


Cal Poly
Fargo, N.D.
TBA
Details


Sat.
9/15/2018


North Alabama
Fargo, N.D.
TBA
Details


Sat.
9/22/2018


Delaware (Homecoming)
Fargo, N.D.
TBA
Details




Didn't Cal Poly wet the bed, like Gardner Webb did in '17? UNA is also transitioning to FCS-ball.

That '18 OOC schedule "appears" surprisingly weak.

[cx500d]

You guys are ducking Christ


We need to get Liberty or Furman on the schedule.

[PantherRob82]

Didn't Cal Poly wet the bed, like Gardner Webb did in '17? UNA is also transitioning to FCS-ball.


That '18 OOC schedule "appears" surprisingly weak.

Gardner Webb was never good. xlolx

The 18 schedule strength is TBD. I expect Delaware to win 8-9 games. No one knows what UNA will be. Cal Poly will probably be sub .500.

[BisonFan02]

Gardner Webb was never good. xlolx

The 18 schedule strength is TBD. I expect Delaware to win 8-9 games. No one knows what UNA will be. Cal Poly will probably be sub .500.

UNA is better than anything in the MEAC or SWAC that comes to Fargo.

Beyond that though....if you play in the MVFC, Big Sky, CAA or the like....what's the point of a tough OOC? Ask EWU what playing NDSU did to their postseason dreams....etc.

[POD Knows]

Didn't Cal Poly wet the bed, like Gardner Webb did in '17? UNA is also transitioning to FCS-ball.

That '18 OOC schedule "appears" surprisingly weak.I was joking, all of the teams on there suck balls, but it is a stronger OOC schedule than NCAT would ever play. don't know much about UNA, but Delaware and Cal Poly are decent teams, Delaware is making strides but I really don't expect much out of Cal Poly but who knows. I wasn't bragging that this was a tough OOC, I was mostly joking, I figured all of the Christ's that I added to my post would convey that.

[WileECoyote06]

A few NCCU chumps call us Alcoholics and Tramps. Ignorant busters.

xlolx

I still will place y'all in my top ten though.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Didn't Cal Poly wet the bed, like Gardner Webb did in '17? UNA is also transitioning to FCS-ball.

That '18 OOC schedule "appears" surprisingly weak.

Maybe FBS is finally getting smart and got tired of paying NDSU to beat them: https: //herosports.com/college-football/fcs-football-ndsu-football-bison-oregon-colorado


NDSU vs the FBS
YEAR
OPPONENT
RESULT
SCORE


2006
Ball State
W
29-24


2006
Minnesota
L
10-9


2007
Central Michigan
W
44-14


2007
Minnesota
W
27-21


2008
Wyoming
L
16-13


2009
Iowa State
L
34-17


2010
Kansas
W
6-3


2011
Minnesota
W
37-24


2012
Colorado State
W
22-7


2013
Kansas State
W
24-21


2014
Iowa State
W
34-14


2016
Iowa
W
23-21

[Derby City Duke]

Maybe FBS is finally getting smart and got tired of paying NDSU to beat them: https: //herosports.com/college-football/fcs-football-ndsu-football-bison-oregon-colorado



YEAR
OPPONENT
RESULT
SCORE


2006
Ball State
W
29-24


2006
Minnesota
L
10-9


2007
Central Michigan
W
44-14


2007
Minnesota
W
27-21


2008
Wyoming
L
16-13


2009
Iowa State
L
34-17


2010
Kansas
W
6-3


2011
Minnesota
W
37-24


2012
Colorado State
W
22-7


2013
Kansas State
W
24-21


2014
Iowa State
W
34-14


2016
Iowa
W
23-21




It might be a stretch to call Kansas an FBS team...:D

[Redbird 4th & short]

It might be a stretch to call Kansas an FBS team...:D
very true .. yet more evidence that NDSU is afraid to play truly good teams like NC A&T

Awesome game yesterday ... lot more defense than offense, but very impressive nonetheless. If I'm being honest, JMU WRs probably cost them a the game. Of course, JMU benefitted from great field position all game. And NDSU was missing 2 starting CBs, so that played a factor in JMU receivers being open to begin with, resulting in many drops .. but injuries happen. JMU defense plays very fast once they found their mojo as game progressed.

That said, I'll still take 2014 NDSU-ISUr (i.e. Jan 2015) as better overall game than this years game, given stronger offensive performances in 2014 .. but for a very defensive oriented game, that was incredible entertainment yesterday.

[WestCoastAggie]

It might be a stretch to call Kansas an FBS team...:D

Kansas did hold the Bison to 6 points that game.

[BisonFan02]

Kansas did hold the Bison to 6 points that game.

Missouri State held them to 0. Your point? :D

[WestCoastAggie]

Missouri State held them to 0. Your point? :D

Did your AD make the phone call yet?

[BisonFan02]

Did your AD make the phone call yet?

I'm not in his office. You call us...without playoff implications, you guys are better off playing FBS teams in your region. Don't worry about us in the FCS.

[WestCoastAggie]

I'm not in his office. You call us...without playoff implications, you guys are better off playing FBS teams in your region. Don't worry about us in the FCS.

A Bison fan has seen the light!

[BisonFan02]

A Bison fan has seen the light!

Move this thread to "other sports"....or just to the lounge.

[kdinva]

..... you guys are better off playing FBS teams in your region. Don't worry about us in the FCS.

well, NCCU has played/will play Dook.......AND; A&T @ Dook in '19 and '21.....

[WestCoastAggie]

well, NCCU has played/will play Dook.......AND; A&T @ Dook in '19 and '21.....

Interestingly enough, ECU may be too scared to play us.

[Professor]

I'm not in his office. You call us...without playoff implications, you guys are better off playing FBS teams in your region. Don't worry about us in the FCS.

Bwhahaha. The round and round continues. You question our legitimacy and yet we need to call you. too funny

[BisonFan02]

Bwhahaha. The round and round continues. You question our legitimacy and yet we need to call you. too funny

My honest guess? We have called every single MEAC, SWAC, NEC, Patriot, etc team to get guarantee home games. The going rate has been 200-250k and schools like Robert Morris, Prairie View, Delaware State, Mississippi Valley State, Incarnate Word, etc have answered.....

If you can get north of 500k to lose to a FBS team, why would you take 250k to lose just as bad in Fargo?

[No_Skill]

My honest guess? We have called every single MEAC, SWAC, NEC, Patriot, etc team to get guarantee home games. The going rate has been 200-250k and schools like Robert Morris, Prairie View, Delaware State, Mississippi Valley State, Incarnate Word, etc have answered.....

If you can get north of 500k to lose to a FBS team, why would you take 250k to lose just as bad in Fargo?

A loss to NDSU looks better to the playoff committee.

Oh wait...

[BEAR]

Maybe FBS is finally getting smart and got tired of paying NDSU to beat them: https: //herosports.com/college-football/fcs-football-ndsu-football-bison-oregon-colorado



YEAR
OPPONENT
RESULT
SCORE


2006
Ball State
W
29-24


2006
Minnesota
L
10-9


2007
Central Michigan
W
44-14


2007
Minnesota
W
27-21


2008
Wyoming
L
16-13


2009
Iowa State
L
34-17


2010
Kansas
W
6-3


2011
Minnesota
W
37-24


2012
Colorado State
W
22-7


2013
Kansas State
W
24-21


2014
Iowa State
W
34-14


2016
Iowa
W
23-21




Your honor...I present exhibit #1 of why NDSU needs to quit wasting its fans time in the FCS. Seriously. Do I need to present the 6 FCS championships as exhibit two???? xlolx

Time for Bison fans to step up financially and get this ball moving...xdrunkyx

[Professor Chaos]

Your honor...I present exhibit #1 of why NDSU needs to quit wasting its fans time in the FCS. Seriously. Do I need to present the 6 FCS championships as exhibit two???? xlolx

Time for Bison fans to step up financially and get this ball moving...xdrunkyx
I think us Bison fans can figure out how to spend our own money. On top of needing another $5M-$10M annually for the athletic budget they'd need a new venue. Even if they build an outdoor venue they're still looking at probably a $60M-$80M capital project at least and if they want to keep it indoors you can easily double that and then some. On top of all that there's no FBS conferences anywhere close to NDSU not named the Big Ten or the Big 12 (and they ain't knocking on that door anytime soon).

The reality is NDSU is going to be FCS until/unless some regional FCS teams move up with them (like the Montanas, SDSU, UNI, etc). Sorry to break it to the rest of the subdivision but we aren't going anywhere anytime soon. :D

[Gil Dobie]

Your honor...I present exhibit #1 of why NDSU needs to quit wasting its fans time in the FCS. Seriously. Do I need to present the 6 FCS championships as exhibit two???? xlolx

Time for Bison fans to step up financially and get this ball moving...xdrunkyx

Need a bigger dome first.

[POD Knows]

Need a bigger dome first.
And an invite, and a bigger athletic budget,

[Professor]

Your honor...I present exhibit #1 of why NDSU needs to quit wasting its fans time in the FCS. Seriously. Do I need to present the 6 FCS championships as exhibit two???? xlolx
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/clear.gif Reply With Quote (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2600657)
Time for Bison fans to step up financially and get this ball moving...xdrunkyx

Don't you think he they were interested , they would have put a plan together and left by now

[Panther88]

My honest guess? We have called every single MEAC, SWAC, NEC, Patriot, etc team to get guarantee home games. The going rate has been 200-250k and schools like Robert Morris, Prairie View, Delaware State, Mississippi Valley State, Incarnate Word, etc have answered.....

If you can get north of 500k to lose to a FBS team, why would you take 250k to lose just as bad in Fargo?

Please hit redial for PV. :D

[BisonFan02]

Need a bigger dome first.

Or the geography. Where do they go? Seriously.....and it's not just football.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I had them 10th (nearly forgot them which led me to forget UNH). Based on what I saw in the playoffs the Aggies could have competed with just about everyone nationally except for a handful of teams.

[polsongrizz]

I put them at #14 and even then I thought that was high. Start playing in the playoffs.