Nice work WCU fans!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Just saw this on twitter.

https://twitter.com/WCU_FB/status/941772837857251328

[PaladinFan]

Good work Catamounts.

Also nice to see Furman up their attendance by 2,000 folks a game. Lot of difference winning makes.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Good work Catamounts.

Also nice to see Furman up their attendance by 2,000 folks a game. Lot of difference winning makes.

Yes and those are all decent numbers really except the bottom two teams and if you are in the bottom two then it probably won't be good.

The averages seem up a little bit but maybe it is just due to a bit of shuffling in the order. Do any of the SoCon guys know if it was up, down, or similar this year?

[DFW HOYA]

Good work WCU, but well done for for Mercer. From Pioneer League crowds to drawing 10,545 a game is a great accomplishment.

[GAD]

xbowxxbowxxbowx Great job WCU

[FUGameBreaker]

Give FU a couple more season with Clay running the show and we will be on top of this list


Congrats to WCU though, good for the conference to have you guys represent xthumbsupx

[ASU33]

Good job! xnodx

[Schism55]

Beat em by 2 per game!
Catamount man surely looking down and smiling.
Nice work WCU!

[kdinva]

Congrats, and great considering your stadium is #4 (I believe) in capacity...

[PaladinFan]

Yes and those are all decent numbers really except the bottom two teams and if you are in the bottom two then it probably won't be good.

The averages seem up a little bit but maybe it is just due to a bit of shuffling in the order. Do any of the SoCon guys know if it was up, down, or similar this year?

Good question. Of course, attendance will ebb and flow a bit depending on the success of the program.

Most of the schools stayed roughly about the same. ETSU saw a bump with the opening of their new stadium. Furman rose a bit with some significantly better play. The Citadel is really the only school that saw a notable decline.

Furman and the Citadel are probably the two programs that can really demonstrate upward movement in attendance. In full force, the Citadel can easily outdraw the rest of the conference with a loyal alumni base and a great location.

Furman, too, has shown for years it can draw 12-13k+ for home games. Those numbers started to dip into the single digits with several years of poor play. I expect that if Clay Hendrix & Co. can string a few good seasons together, you will see Furman move back into the top two spots.

[ElCid]

Yeah we did see a decline, but we ARE missing half our stadium. xsmhx

[Smitty]

And that was with me not attending a single game this year. Imagine what can happen if I show up next year

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah we did see a decline, but we ARE missing half our stadium. xsmhx

How many of the games were sold out then?

[Catamount87]

I started tracking attendance in 2014 after having a conversation with a couple of folks about attendance in the SoCon. For anyone interested, here is how the SoCon has performed with home attendance over the last 4 years including playoff games. (Note, I didn't track ETSU in '14.) Although I don't have the stats saved, what's interesting is even in our very dark years under the previous coach we were averaging right around 8k. I guess WCU fans are like Cubs fans, always faithfully believing. BTW, I'm a Cubs fan too. :-)





# of Games
Total Attend
Avg Att


Mercer
22
230,233
10,465


Citadel
22
226,099
10,277


WCU
21
212,801
10,133


Chat
23
224,603
9,765


ETSU
17
131,086
7,711


Furman
20
140,703
7,035


Wofford
22
148,795
6,763


Samford
23
126,791
5,513


VMI
20
101,370
5,069

[PaladinFan]

Just for interest. The SoCon in 2005:

App State: 17,917
GSU: 16,241
Citadel: 11,674
Furman: 11,052
WCU: 9,099
Elon: 7,382
Wofford: 6,674
UTC: 6,123

*Samford: 5,939 [not in SoCon]
*VMI 6,707 [not in SoCon]
*Mercer 0 [didn't exist]
*ETSU 0 [didn't exist]

So, it looks like WCU holds pretty steady, as have VMI, Wofford, and Samford. Furman has dropped significantly and UTC has risen significantly.

[Derby City Duke]

Well done! The college game is the best!

[ElCid]

And that was with me not attending a single game this year. Imagine what can happen if I show up next year

- - - Updated - - -



How many of the games were sold out then?

Well none, but I know that some people probably stayed away since the stadium is in flux. Same thing happened when the home side construction went on. Plus I am sure that some visitors did not go simply due to having to be on the home side along the edge instead of the middle of the visitors side, even though the visitor side can be unbearable in the afternoon. There is one more thing and I have not been able to get a good reading on it. I am still not sure if we are counting the Corps or not. Attendance dropped a few years ago by about the size of the Corps and it did not make sense at all from viewing it in person because the crowd size seemed fairly stable otherwise. I do know all the club level has been sold out for the last few years though. Hopefully we can have a big opening and generate some excitement when the new visitors side opens for the 2019 season. It would be nice to get into the mid teens again in attendance.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Good question. Of course, attendance will ebb and flow a bit depending on the success of the program.

Most of the schools stayed roughly about the same. ETSU saw a bump with the opening of their new stadium. Furman rose a bit with some significantly better play. The Citadel is really the only school that saw a notable decline.

Furman and the Citadel are probably the two programs that can really demonstrate upward movement in attendance. In full force, the Citadel can easily outdraw the rest of the conference with a loyal alumni base and a great location.

Furman, too, has shown for years it can draw 12-13k+ for home games. Those numbers started to dip into the single digits with several years of poor play. I expect that if Clay Hendrix & Co. can string a few good seasons together, you will see Furman move back into the top two spots.

Agree on the ebb & flow but what I was wondering is if we look at the SoCon as a singular entity was the attendance up, dow, same, etc.

I jsut figured someone would know this right off the bat and I wouldn't have to go searching. I have several more posts to read so maybe the answer is still in the thread and I just haven't turned the page yet.

[PaladinFan]

Agree on the ebb & flow but what I was wondering is if we look at the SoCon as a singular entity was the attendance up, dow, same, etc.

I jsut figured someone would know this right off the bat and I wouldn't have to go searching. I have several more posts to read so maybe the answer is still in the thread and I just haven't turned the page yet.

I’d say about the same. Obviously, the total attendance is less than it was with App State and GSU in the conference. Those schools could regularlay draw crowds approaching 20k.

[Smitty]

Well none, but I know that some people probably stayed away since the stadium is in flux. Same thing happened when the home side construction went on. Plus I am sure that some visitors did not go simply due to having to be on the home side along the edge instead of the middle of the visitors side, even though the visitor side can be unbearable in the afternoon. There is one more thing and I have not been able to get a good reading on it. I am still not sure if we are counting the Corps or not. Attendance dropped a few years ago by about the size of the Corps and it did not make sense at all from viewing it in person because the crowd size seemed fairly stable otherwise. I do know all the club level has been sold out for the last few years though. Hopefully we can have a big opening and generate some excitement when the new visitors side opens for the 2019 season. It would be nice to get into the mid teens again in attendance.

It is okay to say you had a down year. It doesn't take anything away from your program.

As for the visitor situation, I highly doubt that people will avoid a game just because they have to sit with the home crowd. I would guess most people don't have a clue about the seating situation before they arrive.

[Catamount87]

I’d say about the same. Obviously, the total attendance is less than it was with App State and GSU in the conference. Those schools could regularlay draw crowds approaching 20k.

A component of that is enrollment. Both ASU and GSU have much larger enrollments than the other SoCon schools, 18K and 20K respectively. Here's some quick research on SoCon enrollment: (most recent #s I could find.)

ETSU - 15.3K
UTC - 11.4K
WCU - 11.1K
Mercer - 8.6K
Samford - 5.5K
Citadel - 3.5K
Furman - 3K
Wofford - 1.7K
VMI - 1.7K

[PaladinFan]

A component of that is enrollment. Both ASU and GSU have much larger enrollments than the other SoCon schools, 18K and 20K respectively. Here's some quick research on SoCon enrollment: (most recent #s I could find.)

ETSU - 15.3K
UTC - 11.4K
WCU - 11.1K
Mercer - 8.6K
Samford - 5.5K
Citadel - 3.5K
Furman - 3K
Wofford - 1.7K
VMI - 1.7K

Enrollment is a unique figure.

Mercer, for instance, has roughly 8,600 students spread across 4 or 5 different Georgia cities. Roughly half that number are undergraduates living on or around the Macon campus. The other half of Mercer students are graduate students, most of whom do not give one jot about Mercer athletics.

Furman, by contrast, has roughly 3,000 students, virtually all of which are undergrads living on Furman's campus. So, when you put enrollement numbers down, Mercer has over twice the number of students. However, when you look at undergrads living on or around the main campus (really, the figure most closely associated with football attendance at this level), the numbers are far closer.

I would expect similar things with Samford. Like Mercer, Samford has a number of graduate schools. Unlike Mercer, most Samford graduate students are on the main campus.

[ElCid]

It is okay to say you had a down year. It doesn't take anything away from your program.

As for the visitor situation, I highly doubt that people will avoid a game just because they have to sit with the home crowd. I would guess most people don't have a clue about the seating situation before they arrive.

Yeah, of course we did. But that is just it, we shouldn't have had a down year. Reigning SOCON Champs, coming off 10-2, .....we should have had zero seats available with half a stadium. Can't figure out the attendance thing. It will probably go up next after going 5-6 this year. Hey, it's what we do with attendance.xrotatehx I have tracked it back all the way to 1990 and it is counter intuitive nearly always in regard to previous year's record. And we lost another home game this year due to weather. That has got to stop. But I am not sure about that home vs visitor side thing. We did have some portable bleachers across the field at some point. Probably most of the SOCON folks going know exactly where they were going to sit. Didn't you? I know most of the other stadiums. I will say it did look very weird with no opposite side to look at. And the Beer tent had absolutely minimal impact on attendance. So much for bringing in the drunks.xlolx

[ElCid]

A component of that is enrollment. Both ASU and GSU have much larger enrollments than the other SoCon schools, 18K and 20K respectively. Here's some quick research on SoCon enrollment: (most recent #s I could find.)

ETSU - 15.3K
UTC - 11.4K
WCU - 11.1K
Mercer - 8.6K
Samford - 5.5K
Citadel - 3.5K
Furman - 3K
Wofford - 1.7K
VMI - 1.7K

But I think you used graduate students in those numbers as well. I know you did for us. The Corps is only about 2300. Not sure we will get many night students and graduate students to go.

Below are just undergrad numbers. The other notes include, does not include our non Corps (its only 300-400), and Mercer has other campuses besides Macon so that figure may be wrong. Some Mercer bubba will have to chime in as to how many undergrads in Macon.

Other schools obviously have the night/part time students as well. But football life/fandom is realistically limited to the college age, traditional day, and undergrad students. I am certain that the WCU numbers might come down a bit, but the ETSU and UTC numbers would drop a lot, owing to their larger population centers, if we knew the actuals on those. The bottom 5, we can be fairly certain of though, plus or minus a couple hundred.

ETSU - 14,334
UTC - 11,429
WCU - 9,412
Mercer - 4,754
Samford - 3,341
Furman - 2,662
Citadel - 2,323
Wofford - 1,692
VMI - 1,653

[FUBeAR]

But I think you used graduate students in those numbers as well. I know you did for us. The Corps is only about 2300. Not sure we will get many night students and graduate students to go.

Below are just undergrad numbers. The other notes include, does not include our non Corps (its only 300-400), and Mercer has other campuses besides Macon so that figure may be wrong. Some Mercer bubba will have to chime in as to how many undergrads in Macon.

Other schools obviously have the night/part time students as well. But football life/fandom is realistically limited to the college age, traditional day, and undergrad students. I am certain that the WCU numbers might come down a bit, but the ETSU and UTC numbers would drop a lot, owing to their larger population centers, if we knew the actuals on those. The bottom 5, we can be fairly certain of though, plus or minus a couple hundred.

ETSU - 14,334
UTC - 11,429
WCU - 9,412
Mercer - 3,521
Samford - 3,341
Furman - 2,662
Citadel - 2,323
Wofford - 1,692
VMI - 1,653

Found the exact number in the President's report - 3,251. I've adjusted the list above to reflect that.

...and here's a nice graph to show...
https://s31.postimg.org/oglskc1a3/Mercer_Freshman_Enrollment_by_Year_2008-17.jpg
Mercer brought in its 1st class of Football Players in 2012 and began playing in the PFL in 2013. In 2014, the Bears moved to the SoCon. In 2016, Mercer played Football against Georgia Tech. In 2017, Mercer played against Auburn AND Alabama. I believe this graph, in a large measure, reflects the advance publicity and occurrence of those events.

Football MATTERS in Georgia!

Thought maybe I should add a little narrative from that report to answer some of the questions that might arise from such a dramatic increase (roughly, 40%) in enrollment.

"At our board planning retreat in 2014, we concluded that we would allow undergraduate enrollment in Macon to eventually reach 3,500 students. In the fall of 2017, our Macon undergraduate enrollment reached an all-time high of 3,251. At our workshop in 2017, the Board determined to raise the cap on undergraduate enrollment to 3,750 students, and we endeavor to offer the special “Mercer Experience” to more students. It is worth remembering that we are accomplishing this at a time when private colleges and universities across the country are facing significant challenges in meeting their enrollment goals as parents and prospective students are becoming increasingly cost conscious. Our growth in the face of these headwinds is remarkable.

Even more remarkable is the fact that the academic profile of the entering freshman class continues to improve as we have grown. The average high school grade point average of entering freshmen has improved from 3.6 in 2007 to 3.9 in 2017. Average scores on standardized tests have improved from the 76th percentile to the 90th percentile.

Retention is tracked based on three-year rolling averages to provide a more accurate assessment that discounts one-year aberrations. The freshman-to-sophomore retention rate for the three-year period immediately prior to adoption of the strategic plan (2005-2007) was 79.4%. The most recent three-year retention rate (2014-2016) was 87.2%."

[Catamount87]

I did a quick search on enrollment and I knew it'd be somewhat skewed because 1) They aren't all from the same year, 2) they may and probably include distance and online students and/or grad students. But the overall point was that the current SoCon schools have a dramatically lower enrollment numbers than app and geo south. Hence, much lower FB attendance.

[FUBeAR]

I did a quick search on enrollment and I knew it'd be somewhat skewed because 1) They aren't all from the same year, 2) they may and probably include distance and online students and/or grad students. But the overall point was that the current SoCon schools have a dramatically lower enrollment numbers than app and geo south. Hence, much lower FB attendance.

Speaking of Graduation and (Skewed) Numbers, I think we are all in for a lot of 'trouble' next season...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCOxU2rKLas

I just learned that YoungTerrier earned his "ThD" (Terrier Haired Dogs?) Graduate degree from the Universitatus Committeeatum E Pluribus Unum AKA University of South Carolina.

Congrats YT! Well done!!

[ElCid]

In the fall of 2017, our Macon undergraduate enrollment reached an all-time high of 3,251. At our workshop in 2017, the Board determined to raise the cap on undergraduate enrollment to 3,750 students, and we endeavor to offer the special “Mercer Experience” to more students.

Well, I've been to Macon. It certainly is an experience. I kid, I kid. It is actually remarkable that you are doing as well as you are, being....in Macon.

[FUBeAR]

Well, I've been to Macon. It certainly is an experience. I kid, I kid. It is actually remarkable that you are doing as well as you are, being....in Macon.

The “our” was a quote from President Underwood’s Report, not FUBeAR saying “our.” Just want to be clear.

Also, Macon, itself, has made similar or even greater strides/improvements since I started visiting regularly in 2012. Many of those improvements have been conceived and/or led by and/or completed in partnership with Mercer. It’s becoming a pretty darn cool place. Though it’s only about an hour and a half drive, whenever we visit now, we almost always stay over 1 or 2 nights because of all the fun things to do, in addition to Mercer Football.

[ElCid]

The “our” was a quote from President Underwood’s Report, not FUBeAR saying “our.” Just want to be clear.

Also, Macon, itself, has made similar or even greater strides/improvements since I started visiting regularly in 2012. Many of those improvements have been conceived and/or led by and/or completed in partnership with Mercer. It’s becoming a pretty darn cool place. Though it’s only about an hour and a half drive, whenever we visit now, we almost always stay over 1 or 2 nights because of all the fun things to do, in addition to Mercer Football.

Yes, I suppose Macon is making strides. During my last time period in middle Georgia (06-16), it appeared to be recovering a bit. About all we used to do was go to the occasional dinner or show up there. Being only 20 miles away, we got up there only 4 or 5 times a year to the downtown. As far as night life, I got the vibes from the youngsters at work. Most of them would truck to Atlanta for a good time and bypass Macon. That may be changing. I have no doubt that Mercer may be having an impact. I also think that many of the inflow into Macon are Atlanta refugees. We had a lot of them even down in Warner Robins, which has been catching up with Macon population wise the last 20 years. Macon had lost a lot of population compared to my first time in middle Georgia (1992-1996).

[PaladinFan]

The “our” was a quote from President Underwood’s Report, not FUBeAR saying “our.” Just want to be clear.

Also, Macon, itself, has made similar or even greater strides/improvements since I started visiting regularly in 2012. Many of those improvements have been conceived and/or led by and/or completed in partnership with Mercer. It’s becoming a pretty darn cool place. Though it’s only about an hour and a half drive, whenever we visit now, we almost always stay over 1 or 2 nights because of all the fun things to do, in addition to Mercer Football.

I lived in Macon for seven years. Enjoyed my time there. I still have some good friends there.

I think most Macon folks would tell you that the city has potential, but lacks leadership and vision. They had an awful mayor for a number of years that nearly bankrupted the city. While they are currently pouring a lot of money into the downtown area, Macon is still a long ways behind other “peer” cities like Augusta and Columbus.

I thought a lot about this, and I’m not sure there is a city/college relationship more reliant on the success of the other than Macon/Mercer. Mercer has to have Macon be a nice and safe place to spend time to attract students and their money. Macon needs Mercer to keep pouring resources into the city development. Macon, unlike some of the other cities in Georgia, does not have a large corporations that have invested a lot of resources there.

Mercer’s done a good job creating a neat college environment around the campus. They have cleaned up college hill and downtown, giving students a place to go out. I imagine most Mercer undergrad students rarely venture too far away from campus or downtown. I think that is by design.

Always good to keep an eye on Base realignment, though. I’ve been told by numerous people that if the U.S. government ever decided to contract Robins AFB, it would severely hurt the middle georgia economic engine, which is heavily reliant on that base.

[FUBeAR]

I lived in Macon for seven years. Enjoyed my time there. I still have some good friends there.

I think most Macon folks would tell you that the city has potential, but lacks leadership and vision. They had an awful mayor for a number of years that nearly bankrupted the city. While they are currently pouring a lot of money into the downtown area, Macon is still a long ways behind other “peer” cities like Augusta and Columbus.

I thought a lot about this, and I’m not sure there is a city/college relationship more reliant on the success of the other than Macon/Mercer. Mercer has to have Macon be a nice and safe place to spend time to attract students and their money. Macon needs Mercer to keep pouring resources into the city development. Macon, unlike some of the other cities in Georgia, does not have a large corporations that have invested a lot of resources there.

Mercer’s done a good job creating a neat college environment around the campus. They have cleaned up college hill and downtown, giving students a place to go out. I imagine most Mercer undergrad students rarely venture too far away from campus or downtown. I think that is by design.

Always good to keep an eye on Base realignment, though. I’ve been told by numerous people that if the U.S. government ever decided to contract Robins AFB, it would severely hurt the middle georgia economic engine, which is heavily reliant on that base.

A lot to chew on here, my friend...

"lacks leadership and vision. They had an awful mayor for a number of years that nearly bankrupted the city" - interesting tense shift you applied here. The current Mayor of Macon-Bibb (City & County government have consolidated since the past tense time you first mentioned) has been in office since 2008 as Mayor of Macon. He was elected as Mayor of the consolidated Macon-Bibb in 2013 and reelected in 2016. The prior Mayor that you cited hasn't been in office for 10 years and is widely recognized as you described ( http://www.nbcnews.com/id/20979275/ns/us_news-life/t/divisive-georgia-mayor-nears-end-tenure/#.WjvLMd-nGM9 ). The CURRENT Mayor is widely recognized as an excellent leader and having a clear vision. He still has his detractors, as anyone holding political office, or in any leadership position, will & he has to battle the Macon-Bibb Board of Commissioners to advance his pro-growth / pro-business / anti-crime / anti-blight agenda, of course. He and Mercer's President Underwood, as I understand have near parallel visions for the area and are marching in lockstep as they have moved and are moving Macon forward in RECENT years.

"Macon is still a long ways behind other “peer” cities like Augusta and Columbus." - I just reviewed economic statistics from these 2 "peers" MSA's along with that of Macon's. Unfortunately, I can't attach them, but you can find them here ( https://explorer.gdol.ga.gov/gsipub/index.asp?docid=387 ). You can pull whatever statistics you like out of these to pot-shot at Macon (or the other 2, if you cared to), but what I see is 3 VERY similar MSA's. I don't know a lot about Columbus or Augusta because I haven't visited them very often, but I do KNOW what Macon has done and how it has improved in the past 5 years. It is truly remarkable, regardless of the challenges they are still striving to overcome.

"not sure there is a city/college relationship more reliant on the success of the other than Macon/Mercer" - Well then, based on the recent success in Mercer's attainment of extremely aggressive enrollment goals, then that relationship must be going swimmingly and Macon must be carrying its weight in that symbiosis. Right? It has to be the case because you said it is.

"Macon, unlike some of the other cities in Georgia, does not have a large corporations that have invested a lot of resources there." - You do know that GEICO has over 5,000 employees in Macon now, right? The largest non-government / education / healthcare employer in Augusta is E-Z-Go Textron, with 1,277 Employees. We can included government, healthcare, and education if you would like, but they are similar. In Columbus, TSYS is the largest with 4,690. Now Columbus does have several more than Macon or Augusta with AFLAC (3,670), and KIA (3,000) being the next 2. But the point is, Macon DOES have at least one large corporation and more are moving in and ramping up - YKK (windows/zippers), Kuomo Tires, Ricoh, Graphic Packaging, and Tractor Supply to name a few. I had a long 1-on-1 conversation a couple of years ago with then-Commissioner of the Georgia Department of Economic Development (now-Attorney General of Georgia) about economic growth in Macon and he was extremely bullish on things that are coming, economically, for Macon-Bibb and Middle Georgia. He did cite some of the legacy-thinking (such as embodied by some members of the Macon-Bibb Board of Commissioners) as a potential hindrance, but felt that they current LEADERSHIP (Mayor Reichert, President Underwood, et al) were strong enough to overcome that obstacle.

"I imagine most Mercer undergrad students rarely venture too far away from campus or downtown. I think that is by design." - "Design" - interesting word choice. You must be familiar with Macon's 2nd Street Corridor Plan ( http://www.georgiatrend.com/March-2017/Macon-Bibb-County--The-Sounds-of-Success/ ) that truly connects Mercer's campus to downtown Macon. It's been amazing to watch it take shape. I don't know where your imagination would like to take Mercer's students, but my daughter has attended Ole Miss and the University of Georgia and she rarely ventures/ventured from campus or downtown Athens & Oxford. I'd say it's pretty common that most students don't venture far from campus and downtown within the city limits of where their school is located.

"if the U.S. government ever decided to contract Robins AFB, it would severely hurt the middle georgia economic engine, which is heavily reliant on that base." Yep, it probably would. Just as it would in Augusta if the DoD decided to downsize Ft. Gordon (25,264 employees) or in Columbus if the DoD decided to reduce Ft. Benning (40,000). Interestingly, the 25,000 employees of Robins AFB are NOT included as part of Macon's MSA or Macon-Bibb economic statistics. So, it would follow that the 2 peer cities you cited are actually MORE dependent on their Military installations than Macon & Mercer are.

I think that's enough chewing. Sorry for the thread highjack. I just know how far Macon has come, how hard people I know and respect have worked to lead & drive that change, and attempted disparagement of those efforts and results just doesn't sit well with me.

[ElCid]

Always good to keep an eye on Base realignment, though. I’ve been told by numerous people that if the U.S. government ever decided to contract Robins AFB, it would severely hurt the middle georgia economic engine, which is heavily reliant on that base.

Middle Georgia will die if the base ever closes. No ifs, ands, or buts. There are a lot of retirees there obviously. But that just means it will be a slow death. Because once they die out, there will be nothing there after the tens of thousands that are workers and family members leave from the base. Property values will plummet and most consumer businesses will fold. And the base is not necessarily the best at what it does in regard to efficiency. Luckily there is no BRAC in force currently, nor is there likely to be for the foreseeable future. The base is basically a sustainment center. It lost its only operational flying unit back in 08....of which I was literally the last member and I turned off the lights and locked the door.

I really should make one edit. There is a flying mission there still, but it is mostly ANG with an associate active duty component. It is a flying mission, but it is not huge and it may actually get smaller after the current aircraft are retired, due to old age, in the next 10 or so years.

[PaladinFan]

You are being completely contrarian and intentionally obfuscating my point.

Your perception is seen through the lens of the college. That's fine. I've been involved in both the university as well as a taxpaying, voting resident. It's a different perspective.

[PaladinFan]

Middle Georgia will die if the base ever closes. No ifs, ands, or buts. There are a lot of retirees there obviously. But that just means it will be a slow death. Because once they die out, there will be nothing there after the tens of thousands that are workers and family members leave from the base. Property values will plummet and most consumer businesses will fold. And the base is not necessarily the best at what it does in regard to efficiency. Luckily there is no BRAC in force currently, nor is there likely to be for the foreseeable future. The base is basically a sustainment center. It lost its only operational flying unit back in 08....of which I was literally the last member and I turned off the lights and locked the door.

Widely reported that Robins is one of the targets if they ever did realignment. They provide the same service there as they do at several other bases in Oklahoma and Utah.

[ElCid]

Widely reported that Robins is one of the targets if they ever did realignment. They provide the same service there as they do at several other bases in Oklahoma and Utah.

Only two other bases actually (Tinker and Hill). Each has a same mission, primarily, but different aircraft and other weapons systems to sustain, and they each have their little specialty missions unique to each base. There is something to be said in not putting all your eggs in one or two baskets though. And it is very political obviously. But as I said, there is no BRAC mechanism currently in place, The previous one is done and new round cannot be done again until congress created a new law for one. And that is not likely to happen any time soon. I think it has stabilized for the foreseeable future. I had one of my buddies in the BRAC office at the Pentagon during the last one and he said he did not think there would be any more. It was necessary during the wind down of the cold war, but for business as usual, I think congress will retain that for themselves. The massive reduction almost required an impartial entity to make the calls. The onesies and twosies can be dealt with in the defense budget.

[FUBeAR]

You are being completely contrarian and intentionally obfuscating my point.

Your perception is seen through the lens of the college. That's fine. I've been involved in both the university as well as a taxpaying, voting resident. It's a different perspective.

I'm being completely honest and providing objective facts. I understand how you view that as contrarian - contrary to your purpose for commenting and your opinions. You made your point as you continue to advance your agenda to disparage Macon and Mercer.

My perception is seen through the lenses over these baby blues that God gave me. I too have been involved with the University and am a taxpaying, voting resident of the State of Georgia. I would be willing to bet that the time I have spent in Macon in the past 3 years far, far, far surpasses the amount of time that you have. My perspective is based on Macon Georgia and Mercer University on 12/21/2017. Your perspective is based on some time in the past. Change happens.

[FUBeAR]

Only two other bases actually (Tinker and Hill). Each has a same mission, primarily, but different aircraft and other weapons systems to sustain, and they each have their little specialty missions unique to each base. There is something to be said in not putting all your eggs in one or two baskets though. And it is very political obviously. But as I said, there is no BRAC mechanism currently in place, The previous one is done and new round cannot be done again until congress created a new law for one. And that is not likely to happen any time soon. I think it has stabilized for the foreseeable future. I had one of my buddies in the BRAC office at the Pentagon during the last one and he said he did not think there would be any more. It was necessary during the wind down of the cold war, but for business as usual, I think congress will retain that for themselves. The massive reduction almost required an impartial entity to make the calls. The onesies and twosies can be dealt with in the defense budget.

Exactly - the last BRAC was 2005. The next one, if there even is one, would not take effect until sometime after 2021. Macon, Warner Robins, and Middle Georgia are aware of that risk and have more than a few Commissions and Organizations lobbying, studying, and taking action to prevent the occurrence to mitigate the impact if the base should ever be downsized. They didn't hear it 1st here, y'know. Contrary to PaladinFans portrayal, the people in Middle Georgia are not bumpkins. They are doing and will continue to do everything they can to drive economic success in Middle Georgia.

You know, there's a very similar story to what may be occurring in Macon....in the late 70's and early 80's, Greenville, SC (home of Furman University) was a DEAD-A$$ mill town. I know, because I was a tax paying resident there during those years. It was a disaster. Then some smart people got very busy and changed that. Greenville is am AMAZING place today. I see the same things happening in Macon.