How many other fanbases could.........????????????????????????

[BisonBacker]

Reading some of the comments and posters not only here but other teams message boards makes me wonder. I see some complaints about the NDSU fans being full of themselves (yes some are) along with some complaints about NDSU fans being obnoxious (yes some are). Various other complaints like "why doesn't NDSU just move up to FBS" or how long do we have to stroke your ego? My questions are what other fanbases in the FCS could support their team like NDSU? I think Montana, JMU, Jacksonville State and a few others maybe? I say this because when you look at attendance at playoff games or even regular season games the attendance at some good programs doesn't seem to be all that great. Then you look at the size of the cities the teams play in and you have to ask about the support. Then you hear about the competition regionally which many have debunked for the most part (not dismissing it entirely). But people like to complain about NDSU and or its fans and all I have to say is if the team you follow and support had the kind of unprecedented run like NDSU has which teams fans would be any different than NDSU? I mean hell just go look at the JMU board and there are plenty of fans full of themselves and yet they aren't even in the same zip code when it comes to the level of success NDSU has had.

Then take into consideration just what the last 6-8 years the success of NDSU has done for the FCS brand in general. I know some like to say it hurts it because it's not good for one team to dominate like NDSU has. Well like many others have said then bring up your game. Look at the MVFC and how SDSU, USD and others have done to compete. Its not just hyperbole to say that many of the playoff teams if they played in the MVFC would finish middle of the pack or worse.

I have a suggestion for those fans who want to see NDSU move on up. Start a GoFundMe page:D to build NDSU a new larger domed stadium and secure us a conference invite to either the BigX or the Mountain West xthumbsupx

But seriously do you think your fanbase would be any different? I look at some of the teams who made the playoffs this year and their message boards are like a ghost town (I know that's not the only measure of support). What teams fans would be as supportive in the numbers as NDSU? Who would fill up a stadium of 20,500 seat with 80% of their teams fans a thousand miles away from home?

Listen I get people are frustrated and want to see someone else other than NDSU so what do you propose? NDSU leave FCS? Serious questions.xdontknowx

[caribbeanhen]

FCS has been split in half, we already have 3 Conferences that don't compete in the playoffs * (SWAC/MEAC) and it should be more really

it has become so one sided now that a few more conferences should consider breaking away and forming a Sub FCS, Leave the FCS playoffs to the top 4 or 5 confernces

[Serpentor]

FCS has been split in half, we already have 3 Conferences that don't compete in the playoffs * (SWAC/MEAC) and it should be more really

it has become so one sided now that a few more conferences should consider breaking away and forming a Sub FCS, Leave the FCS playoffs to the top 4 or 5 confernces

We're either going to end up needing 5 categories of "Division I" football, or the NCAA is going to need to rebrand and end up with Divisions 1 through 10...

[Hammerhead]

I would really like to see the P5 conferences on their own with the current G5 and the FCS lumped together. The bottom half of the FCS can drop football or go down to D-II.

[Cocky]

Dont believe JSU could reach the NDSU fan level because most of our fans would have used up their energy on UAT or Auburn.

[AshevilleApp2]

Dont believe JSU could reach the NDSU fan level because most of our fans would have used up their energy on UAT or Auburn.

UAT being Alabama/Tuscaloosa?

If so I like it! xnodx xthumbsupx

[Bison56]

You forgot that NDSU is the only thing in town.xcoffeex

[TheKingpin28]

You forgot that NDSU is the only thing in town.xcoffeex

Or they don't have to fight for recruits.

[cx500d]

Or they don't have to fight for recruits.


We don't?

[Redbird 4th & short]

So long as ISUr is FCS, I have zero issue with NDSU staying FCS. I'll take any championship I can get, but I don't want to win a championship because NDSU moved up.

Only issue I take with your post about your fan base is you didn't acknowledge a couple of things that have considerably helped build your fan base, apart from traditional winning culture. Your indoor facility, plus lack of any competing sports venues.


ISUr doesn't have any Nattys and we play outdoors, albeit a bit south of Fargo. But we have to deal with number of challenges which fracture/distract/marginalize our fan base potential. If you draw a 2 hour driving radius circle, and then a 4 hours driving radius circle around ISU, there are many options at FCS and FBS level, not to mention professional level. That and we're a transplant town with lot of white collar jobs with families that come and go with no allegiance to ISUr.

Take all that and 50 years of very lethargic athletic emphasis prior to Spack, and we are what we are. But we hit high water mark in average attendance this season under Spack at 11,440 per game .. good for 4th in MVFC right behind SDSU at 11.9k.

But regardless .. I have no issue with NDSU staying FCS and props to them for their success and fan support. As proven on other threads, MVFC is still the best conference since 2011, even without NDSU. Though I do subscribe to theory that "all ships rise" .. usually. And NDSU has obviously raised the bar for MVFC and that is part of the reason we have had the most playoff success (excl NDSU) since 2011 of any conference, period.

[caribbeanhen]

I would really like to see the P5 conferences on their own with the current G5 and the FCS lumped together. The bottom half of the FCS can drop football or go down to D-II.

I havent watched any Div 2 or 3 this year, but did last year, I would think the top teams in Div 2 handle the bottom half of FCS these days, not sure if it's always been like that though

any FCS vs Div 2 or 3 games this year?

[JacksFan40]

I havent watched any Div 2 or 3 this year, but did last year, I would think the top teams in Div 2 handle the bottom half of FCS these days, not sure if it's always been like that though

any FCS vs Div 2 or 3 games this year?
There was a few D2/D3 vs FCS games, none of them were premier teams at their division. I know last year some team named Quincy beat Drake.

[TheKingpin28]

We don't?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/992/384/ded.gif

[caribbeanhen]

Or they don't have to fight for recruits.

depends who's in the fight though

[TheKingpin28]

depends who's in the fight though

Outside of the T25 and kids who need their egos stroked with the FBS moniker, NDSU will usually win the recruiting battles they need to

[caribbeanhen]

Outside of the T25 and kids who need their egos stroked with the FBS moniker, NDSU will usually win the recruiting battles they need to

OK Mr obvious.... talent level of NDSU is off the charts and what string was #8 when year started?

[TheKingpin28]

OK Mr obvious.... talent level of NDSU is off the charts and what string was #8 when year started?

BRUUUUUCE was either the #1 or #2 depending on who you ask. I'd say #2 due to Dunn's abilities, but NDSU has always been a 2 back system (1 Power Back and 1 Elusive Back) with a Scat Back thrown in for 3rd down and PA packages.

[katss07]

Other than JMU, I hope every FCS team stays put. NDSU is good for the FCS.

[cx500d]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/992/384/ded.gif


That's a joke?

[centennial]

OK Mr obvious.... talent level of NDSU is off the charts and what string was #8 when year started?

Ty was #3, Bruce was #2, Seth Wilson was #6-7 ( Freshman who we pulled a redshirt)

[TheKingpin28]

That's a joke?

It was since what Bison56 posted was relevant to what arguments other fanbases make about NDSU.

[cx500d]

It was since what Bison56 posted was relevant to what arguments other fanbases make about NDSU.


If you believe what other fanbases say, you would think we might be arrogant.

[TheKingpin28]

If you believe what other fanbases say, you would think we might be arrogant.

I generally don't believe what other fanbases say about us.

[Hammerhead]

There are also 3.1 million people in a 100 mile radius around Normal and around 670,000 people in the same radius around Fargo. Go out 150 miles and the populations jump to 16 million and 1.1 million.
http://www.statsamerica.org/radius/big.aspx


So long as ISUr is FCS, I have zero issue with NDSU staying FCS. I'll take any championship I can get, but I don't want to win a championship because NDSU moved up.

Only issue I take with your post about your fan base is you didn't acknowledge a couple of things that have considerably helped build your fan base, apart from traditional winning culture. Your indoor facility, plus lack of any competing sports venues.


ISUr doesn't have any Nattys and we play outdoors, albeit a bit south of Fargo. But we have to deal with number of challenges which fracture/distract/marginalize our fan base potential. If you draw a 2 hour driving radius circle, and then a 4 hours driving radius circle around ISU, there are many options at FCS and FBS level, not to mention professional level. That and we're a transplant town with lot of white collar jobs with families that come and go with no allegiance to ISUr.

Take all that and 50 years of very lethargic athletic emphasis prior to Spack, and we are what we are. But we hit high water mark in average attendance this season under Spack at 11,440 per game .. good for 4th in MVFC right behind SDSU at 11.9k.

But regardless .. I have no issue with NDSU staying FCS and props to them for their success and fan support. As proven on other threads, MVFC is still the best conference since 2011, even without NDSU. Though I do subscribe to theory that "all ships rise" .. usually. And NDSU has obviously raised the bar for MVFC and that is part of the reason we have had the most playoff success (excl NDSU) since 2011 of any conference, period.

[UNHWildcat18]

For me I see 3 things

1) You have no professional or FBS teams around
2) You play in a dome, sorry but it’s a major factor. You think syracuse would have those crowds without the carrier dome? Good athletic facilities are a must
3) the most obvious on field success.

Throw all that together you have a really really well supported fcs team in NDSU

[th0m]

Other than JMU, I hope every FCS team stays put. NDSU is good for the FCS.

Can you elaborate?

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Ty was #3, Bruce was #2, Seth Wilson was #6-7 ( Freshman who we pulled a redshirt) You forgot Purifoy. He was probably #3

[Redbird 4th & short]

There are also 3.1 million people in a 100 mile radius around Normal and around 670,000 people in the same radius around Fargo. Go out 150 miles and the populations jump to 16 million and 1.1 million.
http://www.statsamerica.org/radius/big.aspx

I think you are missing the point. First, you have to divide those numbers by the # of other teams or other things to do that divide peoples attention or interests.

I guess another way to make point is this .. picture what it is like with TV sports news, or a sports radio signal or a newspaper sports section targeting that 150 mile radius ? Who/what makes the headline 99.9% of time anywhere near Fargo ? Bison .. right ? That's all there really is during football season .. it is #1 by far. Very little to divide peoples attention.

Now imagine who/what makes the headline in the 150 mile radius surrounding ISU during fall season .. countless teams in many sports within 150 mile radius .. colleges, pros ... baseball, football, and then eventually basketball and hockey .. all levels.

For our national championship loss in 2014, there was next to no coverage in Chicago papers .. it was huge deal for us when we got 3-4 paragraphs in article on page 6 of Tribune. Got page 1 in Pantagraph .. whopping circulation of 107k covering 8 different counties, including many D-I universities. But we are/were barely an after thought in news media outside of Normal IL. So our much heavier concentration in the 150 mile radius hurts us a lot, it most certainly does not help .. trust me/us on this point. Got a whole lot else going on in that 150 mile radius.

[JALMOND]

Reading some of the comments and posters not only here but other teams message boards makes me wonder. I see some complaints about the NDSU fans being full of themselves (yes some are) along with some complaints about NDSU fans being obnoxious (yes some are). Various other complaints like "why doesn't NDSU just move up to FBS" or how long do we have to stroke your ego? My questions are what other fanbases in the FCS could support their team like NDSU? I think Montana, JMU, Jacksonville State and a few others maybe? I say this because when you look at attendance at playoff games or even regular season games the attendance at some good programs doesn't seem to be all that great. Then you look at the size of the cities the teams play in and you have to ask about the support. Then you hear about the competition regionally which many have debunked for the most part (not dismissing it entirely). But people like to complain about NDSU and or its fans and all I have to say is if the team you follow and support had the kind of unprecedented run like NDSU has which teams fans would be any different than NDSU? I mean hell just go look at the JMU board and there are plenty of fans full of themselves and yet they aren't even in the same zip code when it comes to the level of success NDSU has had.

Then take into consideration just what the last 6-8 years the success of NDSU has done for the FCS brand in general. I know some like to say it hurts it because it's not good for one team to dominate like NDSU has. Well like many others have said then bring up your game. Look at the MVFC and how SDSU, USD and others have done to compete. Its not just hyperbole to say that many of the playoff teams if they played in the MVFC would finish middle of the pack or worse.

I have a suggestion for those fans who want to see NDSU move on up. Start a GoFundMe page:D to build NDSU a new larger domed stadium and secure us a conference invite to either the BigX or the Mountain West xthumbsupx

But seriously do you think your fanbase would be any different? I look at some of the teams who made the playoffs this year and their message boards are like a ghost town (I know that's not the only measure of support). What teams fans would be as supportive in the numbers as NDSU? Who would fill up a stadium of 20,500 seat with 80% of their teams fans a thousand miles away from home?

Listen I get people are frustrated and want to see someone else other than NDSU so what do you propose? NDSU leave FCS? Serious questions.xdontknowx

You're comparing apples and oranges.

It is easy to sit back with the rest of your 20000 enjoying your playoff run and wonder why it can't be like this all over the FCS universe. You have no idea what those of us in (or close to) a major population center have to go through to garner even a little bit of interest (sorry, I don't consider Fargo to be "close" to the Twin Cities).

Portland State is in Portland, a metro area of almost 2.5 million people, more people than some US states including North Dakota. We are within 170 miles of three successful Pac-12 schools, all easily accessible from Portland by plane, train and automobile. Portland also boasts both a successful MLS franchise and an NBA franchise. Portland State is also a commuter school that pushes the average age of the college student much older than other FCS universities. It is easy for NDSU fans to look at this and say that we should be able to draw 20000 to our games (we do have the stadium to hold that). But the reality is that there are far more opportunities to stretch the entertainment dollar in Portland than in, say, Fargo. The key is winning, as we saw two years ago when we went the playoffs. When we win, Portland fans will come out. When we lose, they won't.

To address your last question, it would be terrible for NDSU (or Montana, or any other "successful" FCS program) to leave. People see those schools on TV and hopefully, when they come to Portland, people will want to see them personally. Also, to quote an old professional wrestler, "to be the best, you have to beat the best". A win over one of these types of programs and people will want to come back to see you again. It is an easier sell after you beat those elite programs.

[TennBison]

For me I see 3 things

1) You have no professional or FBS teams around
2) You play in a dome, sorry but it’s a major factor. You think syracuse would have those crowds without the carrier dome? Good athletic facilities are a must
3) the most obvious on field success.

Throw all that together you have a really really well supported fcs team in NDSU
The culture at NDSU grew from many many years of champions and great attitude. The Bison were winning national championships way before the dome was built back in the DII days and the culture of NDSU football began then and those fans and former players are the ones who showed the culture to the fans of today.
And the on field success is what helped the Bison get a dome. The school and the city had a vision for the future and made it happen, but it would have never gotten the ok from either unless the team was pumping out great football. Do you really think that every player back in those days dreamed of coming to Fargo to play in 0 degree weather with sub zero wind chills in December, the answer is probably surprising as a yes, as they recruited local kids who could handle it.
Either way, this success and facilities were not just handed to the Bison, they went out and earned it. Past teams and alumni and players continue the experience allowing a major fans experience which translates to a huge fans base.

[cx500d]

. Also, to quote an old professional wrestler, "to be the best, you have to beat the best"..


I thought KC Keeler made that up

[cx500d]

The culture at NDSU grew from many many years of champions and great attitude. The Bison were winning national championships way before the dome was built back in the DII days and the culture of NDSU football began then and those fans and former players are the ones who showed the culture to the fans of today.
And the on field success is what helped the Bison get a dome. The school and the city had a vision for the future and made it happen, but it would have never gotten the ok from either unless the team was pumping out great football. Do you really think that every player back in those days dreamed of coming to Fargo to play in 0 degree weather with sub zero wind chills in December, the answer is probably surprising as a yes, as they recruited local kids who could handle it.
Either way, this success and facilities were not just handed to the Bison, they went out and earned it. Past teams and alumni and players continue the experience allowing a major fans experience which translates to a huge fans base.


Now you are trolling and being a tool

[Bisonoline]

For me I see 3 things

1) You have no professional or FBS teams around
2) You play in a dome, sorry but it’s a major factor. You think syracuse would have those crowds without the carrier dome? Good athletic facilities are a must
3) the most obvious on field success.

Throw all that together you have a really really well supported fcs team in NDSU

What do you consider ""around" Fargo is 3 hours from the Vikings and Minnesota Gophers.

[Thumper 76]

Sorry not going to jerk off ndsu anymore than they already have been, or you are asking for, again. GFY bison


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uni88]

Redbird 4th & short and JALMOND make some great points but they've missed a key argument that is very relevant when discussing NDSU's community support. I posted a version of this in an SHSU thread but IMO it is worth repeating. Despite the smaller state population, schools that are flagship universities have an inherent advantage over FCS schools that are "little brothers" or private schools in states with FBS schools & larger populations.

First, in most states the vast majority of people are fans of Flagship U, State, A&M, etc. regardless of whether they went to that school or not. You can talk all you want about the millions of people living in a state but an FCS school has almost no chance of converting the vast majority of them into fans. FCS schools in states with FBS schools have to focus on the community near their campus. For UNI, this means the Waterloo/Cedar Falls area (population 170K) not the state of Iowa (population 3 million) and even that’s an uphill battle despite the importance of the UNI to the local economy.

Second, kids grow up fans of Flagship U. Even if they go to Northeast FCS U turning them into fans takes effort and isn't always successful. When I was in school 30 years ago I would guess that UNI had a 50% success rate and that was with a good football team. As JALMOND talked about, this is even more difficult at commuter schools where student ties to the university aren’t nearly as strong.

This reality makes the fanbases that JMU and before them App St have built all the more incredible.

I’m not trying to make excuses. Just because you have a steeper hill to climb, doesn’t mean you don’t try.

[Reign of Terrier]

Okay, I'll admit that I skimmed the OP, but I will say a couple things:

1) NDSU fans are a lot nicer than they were 5 years ago (though some of y'all I jokingly refer to as a circle jerk of illiterates ;))

2) FCS's national brand is pretty much irrelevant. No one cares about any division of football unless they have a vested interest in it (FCS, D2, etc). No one cares about FCS outside of the people on these forums or who have a direct relation to the schools who play it. NDSU's success is great for them, but does nothing for FCS (because, in my opinion nothing does anything for FCS)

3) What bothers me about NDSU's success is that it makes it boring for me. Again, don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of what NDSU has put together, but I'm one of the few posters who was on here before they won it as much as they have and at that time FCS football was a lot more interesting. Sure, some teams had won the championship 2-3 times in a row (App State most recently before NDSU), but even then there was clear chinks in the armor in the teams that played. For instance, App State didn't really blow anyone out as often as NDSU has. It's not an understatement to say that regardless of the outcome of the championship game, NDSU over the past 7 or so years has put together something unprecedented at the FCS level. Those years between 2007-2010 were golden for FCS fans because there was legitimate suspense toward the outcome of playoffs games. It's gone now. Heck, part of the reason why I got back to posting (other than Wofford improving this year and last) was the fact that NDSU lost last year. That suspense was back! But now it's gone again and it's gone until they lose to anyone not named JMU or in the championship.

4) I think recruiting isn't as much of a big deal at this level as people think, there are lots of examples of teams turning their programs around with pretty much the same players (Austin Peay is the most recent example); but in programs like NDSU it's a virtuous cycle where they definitely do well compared to other teams.

5) as uni88 pointed out, there is something of a bandwidth problem for most FCS programs. Branding, enthusiasm, all that good stuff is hard to cultivate in many areas around the country. I think you see the most concentrated enthusiasm for FCS teams in areas/media markets that historically don't have a strong football teams or prioritize football. It's apparent in NDSU, Montana, and prior FCS powers App State (easily the one school in NC that prioritizes football, even if they aren't P5) and Georgia Southern (they were/are the team of South Georgia). To put things in perspective, before Clemson was good and South Carolina had a 4 year stretch of being good, there was a decade span where Wofford won more games, conference titles, etc than either. Did that impact attendance or anything measurable? No.

6)I think we can figure out why NDSU is so successful compared to other programs. It doesn't take away from NDSU's championships, it just puts them in perspective. I think at this point, for whatever reason, NDSU has systemic advantages that extend beyond individual players and coaches. It's not unfair, it's just how it is. They can play FCS as long as they want but in my opinion it just makes it boring for the rest of us.

I don't understand why there's a bit of defensiveness on NDSU fans' part here. So what if you have advantages in recruiting? You still sign your players fair and square. So what if you don't have to compete with other teams and get to be the big fish of your regions? The wins still count. An explanation doesn't take away from what you've done. It doesn't mean you're better or worse fans, better or worse of a program, and so on. You're a top dog program, and it's attributable to factors beyond coaching and players. Who cares? Enjoy what you havexthumbsupx

[Bisonoline]

Sorry not going to jerk off ndsu anymore than they already have been, or you are asking for, again. GFY bison


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Youve lost me here?????

[cx500d]

Okay, I'll admit that I skimmed the OP, but I will say a couple things:

1) NDSU fans are a lot nicer than they were 5 years ago (though some of y'all I jokingly refer to as a circle jerk of illiterates ;))

2) FCS's national brand is pretty much irrelevant. No one cares about any division of football unless they have a vested interest in it (FCS, D2, etc). No one cares about FCS outside of the people on these forums or who have a direct relation to the schools who play it. NDSU's success is great for them, but does nothing for FCS (because, in my opinion nothing does anything for FCS)

3) What bothers me about NDSU's success is that it makes it boring for me. Again, don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of what NDSU has put together, but I'm one of the few posters who was on here before they won it as much as they have and at that time FCS football was a lot more interesting. Sure, some teams had won the championship 2-3 times in a row (App State most recently before NDSU), but even then there was clear chinks in the armor in the teams that played. For instance, App State didn't really blow anyone out as often as NDSU has. It's not an understatement to say that regardless of the outcome of the championship game, NDSU over the past 7 or so years has put together something unprecedented at the FCS level. Those years between 2007-2010 were golden for FCS fans because there was legitimate suspense toward the outcome of playoffs games. It's gone now. Heck, part of the reason why I got back to posting (other than Wofford improving this year and last) was the fact that NDSU lost last year. That suspense was back! But now it's gone again and it's gone until they lose to anyone not named JMU or in the championship.

4) I think recruiting isn't as much of a big deal at this level as people think, there are lots of examples of teams turning their programs around with pretty much the same players (Austin Peay is the most recent example); but in programs like NDSU it's a virtuous cycle where they definitely do well compared to other teams.

5) as uni88 pointed out, there is something of a bandwidth problem for most FCS programs. Branding, enthusiasm, all that good stuff is hard to cultivate in many areas around the country. I think you see the most concentrated enthusiasm for FCS teams in areas/media markets that historically don't have a strong football teams or prioritize football. It's apparent in NDSU, Montana, and prior FCS powers App State (easily the one school in NC that prioritizes football, even if they aren't P5) and Georgia Southern (they were/are the team of South Georgia). To put things in perspective, before Clemson was good and South Carolina had a 4 year stretch of being good, there was a decade span where Wofford won more games, conference titles, etc than either. Did that impact attendance or anything measurable? No.

6)I think we can figure out why NDSU is so successful compared to other programs. It doesn't take away from NDSU's championships, it just puts them in perspective. I think at this point, for whatever reason, NDSU has systemic advantages that extend beyond individual players and coaches. It's not unfair, it's just how it is. They can play FCS as long as they want but in my opinion it just makes it boring for the rest of us.

I don't understand why there's a bit of defensiveness on NDSU fans' part here. So what if you have advantages in recruiting? You still sign your players fair and square. So what if you don't have to compete with other teams and get to be the big fish of your regions? The wins still count. An explanation doesn't take away from what you've done. It doesn't mean you're better or worse fans, better or worse of a program, and so on. You're a good program, and it's attributable to factors beyond coaching and players. Who cares? Enjoy what you havexthumbsupx

All 4 Dakota "flagships" are literally up and down I-29 from each other. Why should NDSU have any advantage over the other 3?

[Reign of Terrier]

All 4 Dakota "flagships" are literally up and down I-29 from each other. Why should NDSU have any advantage over the other 3?

I think the answer to this can be found in the last decade or so. I'll admit I don't know much about the history of football up there, but I imagine winning and the Fargodome have a part. The latter just makes a great atmosphere.

How long have all of the Dakota schools been good at football? glancing at wikipedia South Dakota doesn't seem too good. SDSU seems up and down. North Dakota???

Again, it's a virtuous cycle that NDSU is caught up in and it's what makes them different. If the other Dakota schools became more successful it would probably burst the bandwidth bubble of NDSU.

(I hope that answers your question? I'm not sure if I address what you were trying to criticize because you phrased it as a rhetorical question).

[Cocky]

All 4 Dakota "flagships" are literally up and down I-29 from each other. Why should NDSU have any advantage over the other 3?
History of winning?

[cx500d]

I think the answer to this can be found in the last decade or so. I'll admit I don't know much about the history of football up there, but I imagine winning and the Fargodome have a part. The latter just makes a great atmosphere.

How long have all of the Dakota schools been good at football? glancing at wikipedia South Dakota doesn't seem too good. SDSU seems up and down. North Dakota???

Again, it's a virtuous cycle that NDSU is caught up in and it's what makes them different. If the other Dakota schools became more successful it would probably burst the bandwidth bubble of NDSU.

(I hope that answers your question? I'm not sure if I address what you were trying to criticize because you phrased it as a rhetorical question).


The Fargo Dome opened in 1992. We didn't win a national championship again in Div 2 after 1990. North Dakota won Div2 after that.

[PaladinFan]

Football is cyclical.

I think NDSU is a really good football program. They are also the most clear beneficiary of a period of significant upheaval in FCS football with a number of successful programs transitioning out and several historic powers (primarily UD and Montana) having some leaner years.

All the credit to them. At some point I expect the league is going to start catching back up. Everyone knows the standard they’ve set and where they need to go.

[cx500d]

Football is cyclical.



Oh yeah, nothing is forever. Kenyon in Div3 mens swimming and Mt. Union football might be the closest.

[Professor Chaos]

Football is cyclical.

I think NDSU is a really good football program. They are also the most clear beneficiary of a period of significant upheaval in FCS football with a number of successful programs transitioning out and several historic powers (primarily UD and Montana) having some leaner years.

All the credit to them. At some point I expect the league is going to start catching back up. Everyone knows the standard they’ve set and where they need to go.
This is accurate. Good post!

I've said this numerous times but I really don't believe NDSU (and JMU for that matter) are so much head and shoulders above everyone else in the FCS. Both teams are capable of losing to many perceived lesser teams. NDSU squeaked by a YSU team this year in OT that didn't even make the playoffs. JMU played tight games with Richmond and Weber St. NDSU won 5 straight titles because they were supremely talented and well coached but they also got their fair share of good bounces that kept them at the top. Those breaks tend to happen though when you have talented and well coached players giving max effort.

I know NDSU's guys didn't just wake up and waltz their way to Frisco and I'm sure JMU's guys were the same. Coach Klieman mentioned it in his postgame presser last night that this isn't easy for NDSU or anybody else that makes it this deep in the playoffs and anybody that thinks otherwise isn't respecting the type of work that the players and coaching staff at NDSU put into it.

We've had this argument before on AGS about whether it's good for the subdivision to have a team or teams that are constantly taking home the championships and I still maintain that it is because it pushes everyone else to get better. You aren't going to get better as a player or as a team if you're not challenged by players or teams that are as good or better than you. That's why it's easier to get to the top than it is to stay there and both NDSU and JMU deserve credit for setting and maintaining the level at which excellence is measured at the FCS level. It's up to the rest of the teams/programs out there to reach and exceed that.

/rant

[Reign of Terrier]

I would normally agree that a championship team needs its fair share of bounces to be a championship team. It's like hitting in baseball. Each at bad is kind of random, but the good hitters over time trend upward to a higher percentage of hitting than the not-good hitters.

With NDSU we've seen so much "good hitting" in the playoffs that I don't really think it's as random as the above implies. No team won 5 straight titles before North Dakota State. Plenty of teams won 2 in a row, one other program won three in a row. But no team won as much as NDSU has in the way that NDSU does, and that's what makes this so special (for better or worse).

There's a lot in this thread about hard work, etc, but these by themselves aren't the sole reason any team is good or bad. Causality is never simple. I think NDSU fans get defensive when people point out how some attributes of their program (special positioning, great home field advantage) because they think it undermines the one reason they think they are better (hard work, strong fan support, etc)

[Silenoz]

Listen I get people are frustrated and want to see someone else other than NDSU so what do you propose? NDSU leave FCS? Serious questions.xdontknowx

What do I propose? That everyone else stop sucking

Won't happen though. We're effectively DIII now. One or two programs waaaaaay in front of a mediocre pack

[Professor Chaos]

I would normally agree that a championship team needs its fair share of bounces to be a championship team. It's like hitting in baseball. Each at bad is kind of random, but the good hitters over time trend upward to a higher percentage of hitting than the not-good hitters.

With NDSU we've seen so much "good hitting" in the playoffs that I don't really think it's as random as the above implies. No team won 5 straight titles before North Dakota State. Plenty of teams won 2 in a row, one other program won three in a row. But no team won as much as NDSU has in the way that NDSU does, and that's what makes this so special (for better or worse).

There's a lot in this thread about hard work, etc, but these by themselves aren't the sole reason any team is good or bad. Causality is never simple. I think NDSU fans get defensive when people point out how some attributes of their program (special positioning, great home field advantage) because they think it undermines the one reason they think they are better (hard work, strong fan support, etc)
I think the level of support NDSU's program gets in relation to their FCS peers is absolutely an advantage for them. But that in itself doesn't win 5 straight titles. That in itself doesn't win one title for that matter. Like I said NDSU has had more than their fair share of talent come through the program in the last 7 years but the thing about fortunate bounces is it doesn't just happen on the field it also happens in recruiting.

It's far too huge of an undertaking to rank these types of things but I'd wager that NDSU's 2009 and 2010 recruiting classes were both among the 5 recruiting classes of any FCS program in the last 10 years when it comes to production of the players in those classes. Those classes were signed after a 6-5 season in 2008 and a 3-8 season in 2009 (only NDSU's 3rd losing season in the last 50 years). NDSU had a perfect storm come together that vaulted them from 3-8 in 2009 to 14-1 and national champions two years later in 2011 and it's been a snowball effect with recruiting since then.

But NDSU also can't just rest on their laurels and get good recruits by winking and throwing an offer their way. Some of former NDSU coach Craig Bohl's worst recruiting classes were right after their back-to-back 10-1 seasons in 2006 and 2007 and, by Bohl's own admission, that was due to the coaching staff getting lax and thinking that recruiting should get easier with their on field success. Additionally, making deep playoff runs each year is a big disadvantage during the recruiting primetime in early to mid-December because other coaches are in prospects' living rooms and playoff coaches are immersed in game planning and week-by-week prep. Don't get me wrong that's a problem that pretty much any FCS staff in the country would be fine with having but it does make the coaching grind that much more taxing. NDSU's coaches, to their credit, have done that while maintaining great recruiting classes year in year out or at least it appears that way based on continued results.

In the end it's a combination of things that has led NDSU to the top of the subdivision and a combination of things that has kept them there. It's only a matter of time before other programs catch up like JMU has appeared to do or NDSU falls off but for the sake of the subdivision I hope it's other programs that catch up.

[NDSUtk]

I will just say this, having went to NDSU and graduating in 2003, we definitely were down in the late 90's and early 2000's. We had games with the stadium barely half full. I don't take this run for granted for it too will subside.

And youngterrier, those days were in our Dome. And UND was outdoors and still outperforming us.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

I must reiterate (again?) that I didn't say that one factor led to NDSU's success. FFS it's not just the dome...read my comments

[MR. CHICKEN]

I must reiterate (again?) that I didn't say that one factor led to NDSU's success. FFS it's not just the dome...read my comments

....OH IT'S DUH DOME.......YOUSE CHIDE DUH EAST COAST....FO' PLAY-OFF ATTENDANCE...IN DECEMBER...WHIFF-OUT DAT LID....FARGO........FANS.......SIPPIN' COCOA.....'ROUND DUH RADIO.....BRAWK!

[TennBison]

To the many fans of other teams that curse NDSU. How about a little love. I know some of you are thinking that is crazy. But think of the logic. Before NDSU decided to take over the FCS there weren't many teams for any real length of time that dominated in the way NDSU did/has/is. JMU specifically built its team to make a run at NDSU and many other teams have also decided to up their game and are following the example that NDSU has set. Before NDSU you had schools rotating in and out of championship competition with no one really dominating. The Bison took over and everyone put a target on their chest and is taking a shot at them by making their teams in a mold that they think will beat them, and by doing so, they are improving their programs in ways that more than likely they never would have thought or tried if things had remained as they were 8-9 years ago. Yes folks, NDSU has and is improving the football landscape across the country and is making your team better because of it. You either improve to play with the best or you disappear into the abyss.

[Silenoz]

To the many fans of other teams that curse NDSU. How about a little love. I know some of you are thinking that is crazy. But think of the logic. Before NDSU decided to take over the FCS there weren't many teams for any real length of time that dominated in the way NDSU did/has/is. JMU specifically built its team to make a run at NDSU and many other teams have also decided to up their game and are following the example that NDSU has set. Before NDSU you had schools rotating in and out of championship competition with no one really dominating. The Bison took over and everyone put a target on their chest and is taking a shot at them by making their teams in a mold that they think will beat them, and by doing so, they are improving their programs in ways that more than likely they never would have thought or tried if things had remained as they were 8-9 years ago. Yes folks, NDSU has and is improving the football landscape across the country and is making your team better because of it. You either improve to play with the best or you disappear into the abyss.
Wow. That is an ego run amok alright. You don't have to feel sorry for us, it's our fault for being ****ty as all ****. But christening yourself as our savior? Egads.

[TennBison]

Wow. That is an ego run amok alright. You don't have to feel sorry for us, it's our fault for being ****ty as all ****. But christening yourself? Egads.
There is no ego involved in that statement. A little comedic sarcasm........yes. But blunt honesty nonetheless. Your team is a good example of what happens when you don't adapt.

[Silenoz]

There is no ego involved in that statement. A little comedic sarcasm........yes. But blunt honesty nonetheless. Your team is a good example of what happens when you don't adapt.

Wait, that was our problem? Lack of change?

[uni88]

There is no ego involved in that statement. A little comedic sarcasm........yes. But blunt honesty nonetheless. Your team is a good example of what happens when you don't adapt.And here I thought it was just more of your self declared humor.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

This is accurate. Good post!

I've said this numerous times but I really don't believe NDSU (and JMU for that matter) are so much head and shoulders above everyone else in the FCS. Both teams are capable of losing to many perceived lesser teams. NDSU squeaked by a YSU team this year in OT that didn't even make the playoffs. JMU played tight games with Richmond and Weber St. NDSU won 5 straight titles because they were supremely talented and well coached but they also got their fair share of good bounces that kept them at the top. Those breaks tend to happen though when you have talented and well coached players giving max effort.

I know NDSU's guys didn't just wake up and waltz their way to Frisco and I'm sure JMU's guys were the same. Coach Klieman mentioned it in his postgame presser last night that this isn't easy for NDSU or anybody else that makes it this deep in the playoffs and anybody that thinks otherwise isn't respecting the type of work that the players and coaching staff at NDSU put into it.

We've had this argument before on AGS about whether it's good for the subdivision to have a team or teams that are constantly taking home the championships and I still maintain that it is because it pushes everyone else to get better. You aren't going to get better as a player or as a team if you're not challenged by players or teams that are as good or better than you. That's why it's easier to get to the top than it is to stay there and both NDSU and JMU deserve credit for setting and maintaining the level at which excellence is measured at the FCS level. It's up to the rest of the teams/programs out there to reach and exceed that.

/rant

That’s the way I see it.

I watched App State a bunch during their run in the late 2010s. They share a lot in common with NDSU. Both teams are extremely good, very tough to beat at home, and make few mistakes. That combination is really tough to beat, particularly in the post season.

Like those App State teams, NDSU is beatable. Teams prove every season they can play with them. The issue is that NDSU is not only really good, but they also don’t make a lot of mistakes. Therefore, you have to not only be good enough to play with them, but also play a nearly flawless game to win. Those are two tough things to do.

We just saw a really good example of that in the SDSU/JMU game. SDSU is clearly good enough to play with James Madison. They are not good enough to boot the ball around the field and beat a team like that. They needed a pretty near flawless game and didn’t come close to it.

[cx500d]

Like those App State teams, NDSU is beatable.

Yeah, only one year were we undefeated, so yes we can be beat. There is no such thing as a sure win.

[TennBison]

Wait, that was our problem? Lack of change?
Not a lack of change, but a lack of vision. NDSU has it and some schools thought they did but no where near the level that NDSU is. There is no dispute that NDSU has changed the landscape of FCS football. Don't take my word for it, ask any college football news agency, ask any college coach in the FCS or athletic director. They all want their programs to have the success the Bison have, they want the fan base, they want the tailgating, they want the support of the community, they want the championships. Schools are changing to copy what NDSU has done and if they haven't they wish they could. Some schools were very close to begin with but couldn't get over a hump. NDSU is as close to a total package as any team has ever been. They raised the bar higher than people thought it could go and have provided a blueprint to doing it. For years App St was the gold standard, now NDSU is and they have raised the bar higher than App St did.

[Silenoz]

Not a lack of change, but a lack of vision. NDSU has it and some schools thought they did but no where near the level that NDSU is. There is no dispute that NDSU has changed the landscape of FCS football. Don't take my word for it, ask any college football news agency, ask any college coach in the FCS or athletic director. They all want their programs to have the success the Bison have, they want the fan base, they want the tailgating, they want the support of the community, they want the championships. Schools are changing to copy what NDSU has done and if they haven't they wish they could. Some schools were very close to begin with but couldn't get over a hump. NDSU is as close to a total package as any team has ever been. They raised the bar higher than people thought it could go and have provided a blueprint to doing it. For years App St was the gold standard, now NDSU is and they have raised the bar higher than App St did.
Uh, sure. I guess it was lack of vision (and/or a willingness to adapt) that brought us to ruin. And not all those other things we're quite infamous for, like rapes and Stitts. And if NDSU has somehow made the Big Sky, Southern or Southland better... well it sure isn't evident to my eye. Not to mention most of the CAA regressing since a decade ago, aside from JMU, who's rise can be attributed to any number of things.

Oh, and the sleeping giant in FCS is Montana State. Who's rise I give credit to us for.

Whatever, it doesn't matter. Enjoy the wins, you shouldn't care if everyone else is tired of their own incompetence.

[TennBison]

Uh, sure. I guess it was lack of vision (and/or a willingness to adapt) that brought us to ruin. And not all those other things we're quite infamous for, like rapes and Stitts. And if NDSU has somehow made the Big Sky, Southern or Southland better... well it sure isn't evident to my eye. Not to mention most of the CAA regressing since a decade ago, aside from JMU, who's rise can be attributed to any number of things.

Oh, and the sleeping giant in FCS is Montana State. Who's rise I give credit to us for.

Whatever, it doesn't matter. Enjoy the wins, you shouldn't care if everyone else is tired of their own incompetence.
The JMU coach stated point blank in an interview that he specifically built up JMU in such a way as to beat NDSU in December. So I will take his word for it, unless of course you believe he is lying to the world for some reason or you think he is on the "Lets hype up NDSU payroll".
FYI, Montana St is one of those teams I had in mind as one who was just unable to get over the hump.

[NDSUtk]

I must reiterate (again?) that I didn't say that one factor led to NDSU's success. FFS it's not just the dome...read my commentsI didn't say it was just the dome either. Settle down and don't take me adding your name so personally dude. I mentioned that UND was having way more success than NDSU at the time, we had small crowds, and we were in the dome as compared to others. Those were 3 of your points you made. My point being, it isn't like NDSU hasn't had down years. They will come again. Hell, shortly before the run we were 3-8.

Quite honestly, this thread in its entirety is a waste. I'm sure during other's runs, the same type of **** was said. Hopefully NDSU fans can just enjoy it while it lasts and not being total d-bags about it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Redbird007]

Wow. That is an ego run amok alright. You don't have to feel sorry for us, it's our fault for being ****ty as all ****. But christening yourself as our savior? Egads.

Exactly. What an ego. Hats off to NDSU for dominating and their dominance, though not good for fcs, is every other competing school’s fault.

[Silenoz]

The JMU coach stated point blank in an interview that he specifically built up JMU in such a way as to beat NDSU in December. So I will take his word for it, unless of course you believe he is lying to the world for some reason or you think he is on the "Lets hype up NDSU payroll".
FYI, Montana St is one of those teams I had in mind as one who was just unable to get over the hump.

Built up? He won the championship in his rookie JMU season

...and they're full of transfers

...and they run every play out of the shotgun

...and they were already building their elite program back in the 2000s

[TennBison]

Built up? He won the championship in his rookie JMU season

...and they're full of transfers

...and they run every play out of the shotgun

...and they were already building their elite program back in the 2000s
They won one championship back in the 2000's that does not make them elite, and what they did back then was no reflection on what they are trying to do now.
I know it is his second season and that last year by default was his first, and it makes no difference if they have transfers or run out of a shotgun. He is still setting up the team, coaching them, play calling, defensive schemes all in order to stop or play to beat NDSU. He said those things, not me. Nothing you have said changes anything. NDSU has set the gold standard and other teams are trying as best they can to keep up and be like them. Argue it all you like, but it is the truth. And if you think not, feel free to point out a school that does not wish to duplicate or exceed what NDSU is doing in football at the FCS level.

[JayMYou]

Outside of the T25 and kids who need their egos stroked with the FBS moniker, NDSU will usually win the recruiting battles they need to

Many players are choosing SEC schools to get more than their "egos" stroked.

https://i.imgur.com/2Bfg3q4.gif

[UNHWildcat18]

Built up? He won the championship in his rookie JMU season

...and they're full of transfers

...and they run every play out of the shotgun

...and they were already building their elite program back in the 2000s


16 transfers and most of which went to college prep schools for a year after high school I think only 5-6 are FBS transfers and I think only 2 play out of those 5-6. The rest are youngsters

[BisonBacker]

Built up? He won the championship in his rookie JMU season

...and they're full of transfers

...and they run every play out of the shotgun

...and they were already building their elite program back in the 2000s

Not meaning to disrupt the pissing match between you two but the JMU coach did make those comments.

[Cocky]

They won one championship back in the 2000's that does not make them elite, and what they did back then was no reflection on what they are trying to do now.
I know it is his second season and that last year by default was his first, and it makes no difference if they have transfers or run out of a shotgun. He is still setting up the team, coaching them, play calling, defensive schemes all in order to stop or play to beat NDSU. He said those things, not me. Nothing you have said changes anything. NDSU has set the gold standard and other teams are trying as best they can to keep up and be like them. Argue it all you like, but it is the truth. And if you think not, feel free to point out a school that does not wish to duplicate or exceed what NDSU is doing in football at the FCS level.

The Gold standard at this time is JMU. If NDSU wants to be the gold standard they need to win in January. Losing in November, December or January just makes you another team who loss.

[Cocky]

16 transfers and most of which went to college prep schools for a year after high school I think only 5-6 are FBS transfers and I think only 2 play out of those 5-6. The rest are youngsters

JMU has more than 5-6 FBS transfers this year.

[TennBison]

The Gold standard at this time is JMU. If NDSU wants to be the gold standard they need to win in January. Losing in November, December or January just makes you another team who loss.
True they are not the defending national champs, however, the NDSU model for everything about it that is football still is the standard of which teams strive to be. JMU may or may not be there yet, but they are right there for sure. JMU is where it is because of NDSU. If JMU wants to be considered a trend setter like NDSU they need to accomplish more and surpass what the Bison have done.

[Silenoz]

True they are not the defending national champs, however, the NDSU model for everything about it that is football still is the standard of which teams strive to be. JMU may or may not be there yet, but they are right there for sure. JMU is where it is because of NDSU. If JMU wants to be considered a trend setter like NDSU they need to accomplish more and surpass what the Bison have done.

Okay, then Mount Union is the savior of DIII because they pushed Wisconsin Whitewater to improve. /logic

I dunno why you need this so bad. Should everyone be striving to be like NDSU? Probably, even though most don't have such resources. Is that happening? No.

[JayMYou]

True they are not the defending national champs, however, the NDSU model for everything about it that is football still is the standard of which teams strive to be. JMU may or may not be there yet, but they are right there for sure. JMU is where it is because of NDSU. If JMU wants to be considered a trend setter like NDSU they need to accomplish more and surpass what the Bison have done.

There is a difference between building a team to beat the incumbent champion, and building a team to replicate that team. There are many similarities between JMU and NDSU, but there are also some major differences (just look at the contrasts in our offenses from the semi game last year). NDSU didn't "invent" the recipe for a dominant program, they just developed their own version based on experiences and talents cobbled together from a variety of places.

NDSU has created an amazing foundation and recipe, but JMU isn't where we are because of NDSU. You served as motivation for sure but your success is the standard we seek, not trying to copy everything you've done. We're where we are because of the vision and desire to beat the best in FCS. NDSU happens to be at top, but regardless if it was Sam Houston or Georgetown instead, JMU was still at a point where this team was coming together.

I honestly don't think any team will be replicating what NDSU has done anytime soon, let alone surpassing it. And frankly, my desire is for JMU to progress on through FBS and work our way up to what should be our target peers. I personally wouldn't be content to see JMU dominating at this level for years on end. But the last few seasons have been a blast.

[WileECoyote06]

There is a difference between building a team to beat the incumbent champion, and building a team to replicate that team. There are many similarities between JMU and NDSU, but there are also some major differences (just look at the contrasts in our offenses from the semi game last year). NDSU didn't "invent" the recipe for a dominant program, they just developed their own version based on experiences and talents cobbled together from a variety of places.

NDSU has created an amazing foundation and recipe, but JMU isn't where we are because of NDSU. You served as motivation for sure but your success is the standard we seek, not trying to copy everything you've done. We're where we are because of the vision and desire to beat the best in FCS. NDSU happens to be at top, but regardless if it was Sam Houston or Georgetown instead, JMU was still at a point where this team was coming together.

I honestly don't think any team will be replicating what NDSU has done anytime soon, let alone surpassing it. And frankly, my desire is for JMU to progress on through FBS and work our way up to what should be our target peers. I personally wouldn't be content to see JMU dominating at this level for years on end. But the last few seasons have been a blast.

If you can't beat em, just outspend em. JMU is an FBS school stuck without an invitation. Y'all have been on another level for nearly a decade and it's finally paying off with results. (We played y'all during our transition, and even then your amenities and facilities were putting other FCS schools to shame).

If JMU dominates NDSU in the 'ship; it only strengthens my opinion. Also, this is by no means intended to be an insult.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I was under the impression that JMU was still in FCS by choice and that they had already been approached by the Sun Belt and C-USA about joining. Am I incorrect?

[mcveyrl]

http://m.startribune.com/james-madison-coach-rebuilt-his-team-to-end-north-dakota-state-s-reign-as-fcs-champion/406971716/

[TennBison]

Okay, then Mount Union is the savior of DIII because they pushed Wisconsin Whitewater to improve. /logic

I dunno why you need this so bad. Should everyone be striving to be like NDSU? Probably, even though most don't have such resources. Is that happening? No.
That is true, Mt Union has pushed those who wish to compete. They are a outstanding comparison. I understand that most don't have the resources, whose fault is that? Look back to my earlier posts about the culture at NDSU being brought along by past players and alumni. The culture and resources didn't just pop up out of nowhere at NDSU back when Craig Bohl came along. It was reignited and taken to a new level.
And your statement about why do I need it is a joke, FYI, I don't need it. My team and fanbase already have IT in case you didn't notice.

[TennBison]

There is a difference between building a team to beat the incumbent champion, and building a team to replicate that team. There are many similarities between JMU and NDSU, but there are also some major differences (just look at the contrasts in our offenses from the semi game last year). NDSU didn't "invent" the recipe for a dominant program, they just developed their own version based on experiences and talents cobbled together from a variety of places.

NDSU has created an amazing foundation and recipe, but JMU isn't where we are because of NDSU. You served as motivation for sure but your success is the standard we seek, not trying to copy everything you've done. We're where we are because of the vision and desire to beat the best in FCS. NDSU happens to be at top, but regardless if it was Sam Houston or Georgetown instead, JMU was still at a point where this team was coming together.

I honestly don't think any team will be replicating what NDSU has done anytime soon, let alone surpassing it. And frankly, my desire is for JMU to progress on through FBS and work our way up to what should be our target peers. I personally wouldn't be content to see JMU dominating at this level for years on end. But the last few seasons have been a blast.
You are 100% correct, your team is trying to do things better and you are trying it in a way that works best for you. The fact that NDSU might be an inspiration to other schools is the best compliment that NDSU can receive from it. But schools should be quietly inspired on their own. JMU is different, Montana St is different. And there are possibly about 10 other team/schools that are on the right track, their own track, to getting to their own level of success.

[Silenoz]

My team and fanbase already have IT in case you didn't notice.
How could we forget? This is basically Bisonville 2.0

But yeah, Messiah-complex, got it.

I think you actually made my point though. 10 schools (out of 120) that are working towards success? That is f'ing pitiful, and comes back to my original point; this level is turning into a joke and it's everyone else's fault

[Gil Dobie]

For me I see 3 things

1) You have no professional or FBS teams around
2) You play in a dome, sorry but it’s a major factor. You think syracuse would have those crowds without the carrier dome? Good athletic facilities are a must
3) the most obvious on field success.

Throw all that together you have a really really well supported fcs team in NDSU

I have an NFL team 20 minutes from my house, but I drive 3.5 hours to Bison games with season tickets. Minnesota Gophers and Iowa St Cyclones are closer than Fargo. There are others in the Twin Cities that take the same drive.

[TennBison]

I was under the impression that JMU was still in FCS by choice and that they had already been approached by the Sun Belt and C-USA about joining. Am I incorrect?
Hard to say for sure, there was a very recent radio show in Fargo (1660 am The Insiders) that talked about Mike Houston and his contract extension a couple days or less after it happened. Houston told a reporter that he has been approached by FBS schools and has turned them down. Lots of speculation as to why the 10 year extension. Some think that JMU is ready to make a jump to FBS and they want Houston to be there when they do. And others think it is just in case Houston does take a FBS job offer, and the extension helps JMU get a bigger buyout on his contract. Or it could be that JMU just wanted to try to lock him in without any other reason (but probably not just that simple).

[TennBison]

How could we forget? This is basically Bisonville 2.0

But yeah, Messiah-complex, got it.

I think you actually made my point though. 10 schools (out of 120) that are working towards success? That is f'ing pitiful, and comes back to my original point; this level is turning into a joke and it's everyone else's fault
Nope, my thinking is that the three I mentioned plus the ten are doing it better than everyone else. For all I know, 50-60 schools might want or be trying to get there but are doing nothing more than spinning their wheels and not getting anywhere. But their is no doubt that some are not even giving it an effort.

[TheKingpin28]

I have an NFL team 20 minutes from my house, but I drive 3.5 hours to Bison games with season tickets. Minnesota Gophers and Iowa St Cyclones are closer than Fargo. There are others in the Twin Cities that take the same drive.

Do they really count though? I live 15 miles from Dinkytown and I drive every month to Fargo instead of ever wanting to go to TCF Stadium for the Gophers.

[ST_Lawson]

Do they really count though? I live 15 miles from Dinkytown and I drive every month to Fargo instead of ever wanting to go to TCF Stadium for the Gophers.

Another thing to consider is where a person grew up...where were they when they became football fans...and what was the dominant fanbase in that area (or who did your parents root for)? Did a person grow up in an area where when people talked about football it was usually about the Bison?

I grew up less than a mile from Hanson Field, went to kindergarten-2nd grade in the lab school practically across the street. I assumed WIU had a football team, since I'd seen the stadium, but I couldn't tell you the team's nickname, what conference they played in, if they were any good or not (and for a decent number of years back then, they were pretty good and were in I-AA). Until I became I member of the marching band, I knew practically nothing about WIU's football team. That just wasn't the culture around here. People would talk about the Bears, (St. Louis Football) Cardinals and later the Rams, and also somewhat Illinois and Iowa. I never heard anything about the team that was almost literally in my backyard.

[UNHWildcat18]

I have an NFL team 20 minutes from my house, but I drive 3.5 hours to Bison games with season tickets. Minnesota Gophers and Iowa St Cyclones are closer than Fargo. There are others in the Twin Cities that take the same drive.

As a poster said before there is no professional teams or big time FBS teams within 3 hours of Fargo. That helps, people close by who want to see live football and be in a comfortable atmosphere weather wise and great atmosphere fan wise have NDSU(not to mention they win, a lot). Taking a random football fan and say want to be in the 70 degree fargo dome or at Umaine for a 38 degree day... I can only guess which one they will be more likely to go to.

[Catbooster]

Has anyone ever tried to figure out how much extra practice time NDSU has accumulated over this multi-year run? Every year, they've been practicing into January while most of the rest of the teams were done before Thanksgiving.

What's Spring ball - 15 practices? Teams that make it to the second round probably get almost that many extra practices.I don't know all of the NCAA rules about practices or remember how many are allowed, but I think this is probably another advantage for teams that make deep runs in the playoffs. It's probably debatable how big the advantage is, but I think it must be an advantage.

[TheKingpin28]

Has anyone ever tried to figure out how much extra practice time NDSU has accumulated over this multi-year run? Every year, they've been practicing into January while most of the rest of the teams were done before Thanksgiving.

What's Spring ball - 15 practices? Teams that make it to the second round probably get almost that many extra practices.I don't know all of the NCAA rules about practices or remember how many are allowed, but I think this is probably another advantage for teams that make deep runs in the playoffs. It's probably debatable how big the advantage is, but I think it must be an advantage.

IIRC, NDSU for Spring Ball mainly plays Special Teamers and guys who did not get reps during the season to boost them up for Fall camp as well as try and decide who is ready to make the jump in the depth chart and who is lagging behind.

[Thundar]

Has anyone ever tried to figure out how much extra practice time NDSU has accumulated over this multi-year run? Every year, they've been practicing into January while most of the rest of the teams were done before Thanksgiving.

What's Spring ball - 15 practices? Teams that make it to the second round probably get almost that many extra practices.I don't know all of the NCAA rules about practices or remember how many are allowed, but I think this is probably another advantage for teams that make deep runs in the playoffs. It's probably debatable how big the advantage is, but I think it must be an advantage.

Not that i want to get into this pissing match but 2010 thru Jan 18 NDSU will have played 119 games in that span, you can kind of see what your looking for with that info

[Twentysix]

Not that i want to get into this pissing match but 2010 thru Jan 18 NDSU will have played 119 games in that span, you can kind of see what your looking for with that infoMost teams have played less than 100 games in that time period.

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[Serpentor]

Do they really count though? I live 15 miles from Dinkytown and I drive every month to Fargo instead of ever wanting to go to TCF Stadium for the Gophers.

Are we going to just blow past the fact that there's an actual place in Minnesota called "Dinkytown?"

[Professor Chaos]

Are we going to just blow past the fact that there's an actual place in Minnesota called "Dinkytown?"
That's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the weirdness that is the University of Minnesota.

Ski-U-Mah
Row the boat
Playing games at the barn

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg

[Gil Dobie]

As a poster said before there is no professional teams or big time FBS teams within 3 hours of Fargo. That helps, people close by who want to see live football and be in a comfortable atmosphere weather wise and great atmosphere fan wise have NDSU(not to mention they win, a lot). Taking a random football fan and say want to be in the 70 degree fargo dome or at Umaine for a 38 degree day... I can only guess which one they will be more likely to go to.

That is true also. I have a choice between a 3.5 hour drive to an indoor stadium for NDSU or a 20 minute drive to an indoor stadium, Minnesota Vikings. I also would drive 5 hours to Green Bay for an outdoor game over the 20 minute drive to the Vikings game.

The average football fan probably wouldn't do that.

There is also a lot of support from corporate sponsors buying up a lot of season tickets. One I am familiar with, has 8 season tickets. I'm sure there are others that have more.

[Gil Dobie]

That's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the weirdness that is the University of Minnesota.

Ski-U-Mah
Row the boat
Playing games at the barn

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg

At least they got rid of "It's Tubby Time" and Jerry-sota

[ST_Lawson]

There is also a lot of support from corporate sponsors buying up a lot of season tickets. One I am familiar with, has 8 season tickets. I'm sure there are others that have more.

That helps, I bet. In a town of 10k, there's not a lot of "corporate" to be "sponsors".

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I think NDSU is good for FCS..theres always a team or two that carries and raises the overall brand for the league every decade...the late 90s early 2000s Montana did it, and our fan base was walking crotch first wherever we went, just like Bison fans do now. Why wouldnt they? Theyre kicking ass. I can speak for coming from a small state like North Dakota or Montana, that generally dont receive media recognition for much, it is a huge deal to these states when our teams are kicking ass.

Its something to be proud of, and when those small states can compete with the rest of the nation in something, its very important to us. There will come a time where NDSU doesnt dominate like this, but theyve basically built a tradition that will sustain them through any future tough times as well. Teams like this are good for the FCS. Without the NDSUs, Montanas, South Dakotas, of the FCS world the division losses a huge chunk of interest. Without those small state schools, the FCS just becomes a division of " those smaller schools that dont play with the big boys".

NDSU should stay where they are, and help continue to raise the FCS brand.

[PaladinFan]

I think NDSU is good for FCS..theres always a team or two that carries and raises the overall brand for the league every decade...the late 90s early 2000s Montana did it, and our fan base was walking crotch first wherever we went, just like Bison fans do now. Why wouldnt they? Theyre kicking ass. I can speak for coming from a small state like North Dakota or Montana, that generally dont receive media recognition for much, it is a huge deal to these states when our teams are kicking ass.

Its something to be proud of, and when those small states can compete with the rest of the nation in something, its very important to us. There will come a time where NDSU doesnt dominate like this, but theyve basically built a tradition that will sustain them through any future tough times as well. Teams like this are good for the FCS. Without the NDSUs, Montanas, South Dakotas, of the FCS world the division losses a huge chunk of interest. Without those small state schools, the FCS just becomes a division of " those smaller schools that dont play with the big boys".

NDSU should stay where they are, and help continue to raise the FCS brand.

I would argue that the smaller states get infinitely more media attention than FCS schools in more populated states. While the FCS doesn't get much publicity nationally (football is, at its core, a regional game), the schools in the less-populated states are going to have the lion's share of the football coverage.

That, to me, makes complete sense. NDSU and Montana have extremely little competition in the football media market. They are generally the best football teams for hundreds of miles in any direction. There are few, if any, FBS programs to compete with, and those that exist are typically underwhelming.

That is not the case in other parts of the country. Furman is 30 miles from Clemson, wedged between several other major FBS schools (UGA, USC), and equidistant between two typically good NFL teams (Carolina and Atlanta). It's hard to get media coverage even locally.

[TheKingpin28]

Are we going to just blow past the fact that there's an actual place in Minnesota called "Dinkytown?"


That's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the weirdness that is the University of Minnesota.

Ski-U-Mah
Row the boat
Playing games at the barn

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg

Yeah Dinkytown is, well, a whole experience in itself. It is designed so you can get lost easily, and then wonder why you ever left uptown in the first place. The Library (it's a college bar, though you could study and research there I guess if you wanted to, depending on what you define as studying and researching) and Annie's Parlour help make up for it.

[Professor Chaos]

Yeah Dinkytown is, well, a whole experience in itself. It is designed so you can get lost easily, and then wonder why you ever left uptown in the first place. The Library (it's a college bar, though you could study and research there I guess if you wanted to, depending on what you define as studying and researching) and Annie's Parlour help make up for it.
It is cute how they all call it "The U" there also.

I live 2,000 miles away from it and I know there's only one "The U":

http://www.gwnj.nyc/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/university-of-miami.jpg

[Gil Dobie]

Yeah Dinkytown is, well, a whole experience in itself. It is designed so you can get lost easily, and then wonder why you ever left uptown in the first place. The Library (it's a college bar, though you could study and research there I guess if you wanted to, depending on what you define as studying and researching) and Annie's Parlour help make up for it.

It's not too far from Frogtown.

[TheKingpin28]

It is cute how they all call it "The U" there also.

I live 2,000 miles away from it and I know there's only one "The U":

http://www.gwnj.nyc/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/university-of-miami.jpg

Right! I scoff at it, since there is only one The U. Gopher fans are like the youngest cousin in the family who all the relatives send things to for Christmas, but secretly, all of their cousins just hate. Everyone has a Michigan and/or The Ohio State type in their family and you know what you get with them. Everyone has the one cousin who "went to Northwestern". Everyone has that cousin who just wanted to get a degree and party (not necessarily in that order), so they went to Wisconsin. Everyone has a cousin who for lack of a better term, thought they were "Northwestern material" but went to "Rutgers". Lastly, everyone has a cousin who is your run of the mill average joe who gets their degree and pursues a career so they went to the other Flagship schools. (I could go on and on to describe each school but I won't).

THEN THERE IS THE "MINNESOTA ONE". They think they are hot **** since they have a solid Hockey program and let's be honest, if you can afford to play hockey, others think you have some kind of income or that mommy and daddy paid your way. They act as if they went to Northwestern since Minnesota has a solid Med program as well as joint operations with the Mayo Clinic. They act as if they went to Wisconsin so they know how to do a keg stand every day of the week regardless of what time or day it is. They act as if they are the godsend of big time sports so they parade around as if they are Michigan/The Ohio State. They think they are Rutgers since they have Dinkytown and Uptown, and since both are very liberal, people will think they are "down with the cause".

However, everyone can see past their charades and just despises them. Everyone knows they are the "youngest in the family" so the aunts and uncles adore them, but in reality, as I said, all of the cousins just hate them and wish they would go away. Even their neighbors, (xDSUs, GFCC, USeD, Minnesota State Schools) just wish they would stop acting as if they are kings of the world, since in reality, they physically reside in Portlandia, their egos living in Hollywood, and their attitude lives in a cab in NYC.


LET ME SAY THIS THOUGH

Not all people who went there are like that, just most of the ones I have met and ALL of the ones who I went to High School with.

"ROW THE BOAT!"

[TheKingpin28]

It's not too far from Frogtown.

True that. If I need some good Pho soup, I am going to Frogtown and not even second guessing myself.

[Serpentor]

It's not too far from Frogtown.

Roddy Piper knows the way!


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51H607E23HL._SY445_.jpg

[BisonBacker]

Right! I scoff at it, since there is only one The U. Gopher fans are like the youngest cousin in the family who all the relatives send things to for Christmas, but secretly, all of their cousins just hate. Everyone has a Michigan and/or The Ohio State type in their family and you know what you get with them. Everyone has the one cousin who "went to Northwestern". Everyone has that cousin who just wanted to get a degree and party (not necessarily in that order), so they went to Wisconsin. Everyone has a cousin who for lack of a better term, thought they were "Northwestern material" but went to "Rutgers". Lastly, everyone has a cousin who is your run of the mill average joe who gets their degree and pursues a career so they went to the other Flagship schools. (I could go on and on to describe each school but I won't).

THEN THERE IS THE "MINNESOTA ONE". They think they are hot **** since they have a solid Hockey program and let's be honest, if you can afford to play hockey, others think you have some kind of income or that mommy and daddy paid your way. They act as if they went to Northwestern since Minnesota has a solid Med program as well as joint operations with the Mayo Clinic. They act as if they went to Wisconsin so they know how to do a keg stand every day of the week regardless of what time or day it is. They act as if they are the godsend of big time sports so they parade around as if they are Michigan/The Ohio State. They think they are Rutgers since they have Dinkytown and Uptown, and since both are very liberal, people will think they are "down with the cause".

However, everyone can see past their charades and just despises them. Everyone knows they are the "youngest in the family" so the aunts and uncles adore them, but in reality, as I said, all of the cousins just hate them and wish they would go away. Even their neighbors, (xDSUs, GFCC, USeD, Minnesota State Schools) just wish they would stop acting as if they are kings of the world, since in reality, they physically reside in Portlandia, their egos living in Hollywood, and their attitude lives in a cab in NYC.


LET ME SAY THIS THOUGH

Not all people who went there are like that, just most of the ones I have met and ALL of the ones who I went to High School with.

"ROW THE BOAT!"

Holy Hell so spot on and funny! xthumbsupx

[TheKingpin28]

Holy Hell so spot on and funny! xthumbsupx

I appreciate it. Since I grew up in the Southwest Suburbs, it was ONLY Gophers and I would give anything to just have them go away and never return.

[TennBison]

Has anyone ever tried to figure out how much extra practice time NDSU has accumulated over this multi-year run? Every year, they've been practicing into January while most of the rest of the teams were done before Thanksgiving.

What's Spring ball - 15 practices? Teams that make it to the second round probably get almost that many extra practices.I don't know all of the NCAA rules about practices or remember how many are allowed, but I think this is probably another advantage for teams that make deep runs in the playoffs. It's probably debatable how big the advantage is, but I think it must be an advantage.
Not only does at team get extra practice time, but think of the extra experience players get in games. The Bison have played in all but last year, 4 playoff games. Since 2011 that is 27 extra games (this years NC included), or 2 1/2 extra regular seasons. Or, for seniors it can be 20 extra games or two full seasons. No doubt that the NDSU seniors have more game experience than any other players in the FCS.

[Twentysix]

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[cx500d]

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Post of the day!

[Twentysix]

Thanks dingleberry

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[Derby City Duke]

I was under the impression that JMU was still in FCS by choice and that they had already been approached by the Sun Belt and C-USA about joining. Am I incorrect?

The administration at JMU historically has not been willing to move to FBS. The university-commissioned Carr Report from about 5-6 years back found that JMU could move to FBS, but that has not come to fruition. There is a lot of disagreement (often heated) within the Dukes' fanbase about whether or not we should move. New state laws regarding what % of an FBS athletic budget can come from student fees has lengthened the decision cycle for JMU's admin. I personally don't care whether it's FBS or FCS -- pick a level and properly resource to achieve the best possible results.

IMO, the decision to not move to FBS 3 years ago is the primary reason Everett Withers made the, at best, lateral jump to Texas State. In hindsight, glad JMU stayed FCS...

[kalm]

Another thing to consider is where a person grew up...where were they when they became football fans...and what was the dominant fanbase in that area (or who did your parents root for)? Did a person grow up in an area where when people talked about football it was usually about the Bison?

I grew up less than a mile from Hanson Field, went to kindergarten-2nd grade in the lab school practically across the street. I assumed WIU had a football team, since I'd seen the stadium, but I couldn't tell you the team's nickname, what conference they played in, if they were any good or not (and for a decent number of years back then, they were pretty good and were in I-AA). Until I became I member of the marching band, I knew practically nothing about WIU's football team. That just wasn't the culture around here. People would talk about the Bears, (St. Louis Football) Cardinals and later the Rams, and also somewhat Illinois and Iowa. I never heard anything about the team that was almost literally in my backyard.

Very similar experience, except my dad coached so I was a fan from the get-go. I was also a lab-rat through 5th grade.

When I attended EWU in the early 90's it was still mostly a commuter school for Spokane. It had a tiny bookstore with little gear and you were more likely to see Pac-10 apparel around campus (Cougs, Dawgs, Zona) than Eastern apparel. Up until our title run it was also tough to find EWU apparel in Spokane. It was mostly WSU, Gonzaga, and occasionally Montana. There was very little branding or brand loyalty for students. This carried on after graduation where I knew too many EWU alumni in the Spokane area who would travel to Pullman to see the Cougs instead. Very little self indentification as a proud Alumni.

I also think the fact it's been primarily a teachers college means you don't end up with as many well heeled donors contributing to athletics.

There is definitely disparity among FCS fanbases regarding nearby competition, geography, population base, etc. It's frustrating at times to not see better crowds during playoff games and putting off facilities upgrades, but it also makes the victories and success a little more sweet realizing all of the competitive disadvantages that have been overcome.

[BisonBacker]

Very similar experience, except my dad coached so I was a fan from the get-go. I was also a lab-rat through 5th grade.

When I attended EWU in the early 90's it was still mostly a commuter school for Spokane. It had a tiny bookstore with little gear and you were more likely to see Pac-10 apparel around campus (Cougs, Dawgs, Zona) than Eastern apparel. Up until our title run it was also tough to find EWU apparel in Spokane. It was mostly WSU, Gonzaga, and occasionally Montana. There was very little branding or brand loyalty for students. This carried on after graduation where I knew too many EWU alumni in the Spokane area who would travel to Pullman to see the Cougs instead. Very little self indentification as a proud Alumni.

I also think the fact it's been primarily a teachers college means you don't end up with as many well heeled donors contributing to athletics.

There is definitely disparity among FCS fanbases regarding nearby competition, geography, population base, etc. It's frustrating at times to not see better crowds during playoff games and putting off facilities upgrades, but it also makes the victories and success a little more sweet realizing all of the competitive disadvantages that have been overcome.

I give EWU a lot of credit for what they have done.

[gsf23nd]

We don't?

Yeah...didn't you see that all those guys that committed to NDSU this week and 0 offers from any other colleges.

[Hammerhead]

Extra game experience has to help teams with multiple playoff runs. High school in N.D. is the opposite with high school championships before thanksgiving and Texas was holding theirs last weekend.

[NDSUtk]

The administration at JMU historically has not been willing to move to FBS. The university-commissioned Carr Report from about 5-6 years back found that JMU could move to FBS, but that has not come to fruition. There is a lot of disagreement (often heated) within the Dukes' fanbase about whether or not we should move. New state laws regarding what % of an FBS athletic budget can come from student fees has lengthened the decision cycle for JMU's admin. I personally don't care whether it's FBS or FCS -- pick a level and properly resource to achieve the best possible results.

IMO, the decision to not move to FBS 3 years ago is the primary reason Everett Withers made the, at best, lateral jump to Texas State. In hindsight, glad JMU stayed FCS...Can you explain a bit about the state law and capping the budget from students? Is JMU currently exceeding this number?

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