Hey MVFC (other than NDSU)

[FUGameBreaker]

If that league is suppose to be so good how about some of you other teams in the MVFC start beating NDSU in the regular season so they don't get gift wrapped all these home games in the postseason every single year.

Maybe next year you guys can prove how good the MVFC is by actually not allowing NDSU to waltz right through it again in the regular season, show that your league has some depth to it and take these guys down, NDSU home games until the championship need to stop, lol

This topic is partly joking and partly serious xsmiley_wix

[JmuSkinsfan]

Except for JMU. They do fine in Fargo lately. But ... yeah. I wouldn’t wanna go back there this year. Glad we won’t face them til Frisco if we advance


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[X-Factor]

Doubt that is going to happen. NDSU returns a ton of talent next near. Bison might be a bit better actually


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[FUGameBreaker]

Except for JMU. They do fine in Fargo lately. But ... yeah. I wouldn’t wanna go back there this year. Glad we won’t face them til Frisco if we advance


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True

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford's not losing the game because it's in Fargo (we've had only like 2 penalties). We're losing because NDSU is executing a good offensive gameplan and we're turning the ball over when we have it.

I know this game isn't the explicit subject, but that's the implicit one.

[FUGameBreaker]

Wofford's not losing the game because it's in Fargo (we've had only like 2 penalties). We're losing because NDSU is executing a good offensive gameplan and we're turning the ball over when we have it.

I know this game isn't the explicit subject, but that's the implicit one.



Its a fact that teams play more comfortable at home, and more on edge on the road

- - - Updated - - -

Shows us what you got next year MVFC!

[Bisonator]

Yeah it's like our players and coaching staff are scrubs. We owe all the wins to the dome. xrolleyesx

[FUGameBreaker]

Yeah it's like our players and coaching staff are scrubs. We owe all the wins to the dome. xrolleyesx


If the MVFC was actually as good as you like to claim, there would be some parity at some point, instead of you guys cake walking right through it every year to setup your home-field advantage in playoffs

[th0m]

Its not so much the dome, its the fact NDSU is better and San Diego and Woffy (and KSU/SHSU) just arent very good teams.

[Bisonator]

If the MVFC was actually as good as you like to claim, there would be some parity at some point, instead of you guys cake walking right through it every year to setup your home-field advantage in playoffs
Yeah it's a cake walk. Does nothing to prepare us for the playoffs. We only win at home. No other MVFC teams do anything in the playoffs....oh wait

[IBleedYellow]

If the MVFC was actually as good as you like to claim, there would be some parity at some point, instead of you guys cake walking right through it every year to setup your home-field advantage in playoffs

NDSU has won the league title 7 years in a row. Only 3 of them have been outright. And lots of nailbiters. "Cake walking." Bwahah.

[Reign of Terrier]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, NDSU has lost like 7 games in the last 7 years. 5 or 6 of them have been in the dome.

It's not the dome.

[centennial]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, NDSU has lost like 7 games in the last 7 years. 5 or 6 of them have been in the dome.

It's not the dome.

This is it. NDSU actually gets beat in the dome more.

[IBleedYellow]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, NDSU has lost like 7 games in the last 7 years. 5 or 6 of them have been in the dome.

It's not the dome.


Ding ding ding! The key to getting to host playoff games is winning on the road.

[semobison]

If the MVFC was actually as good as you like to claim, there would be some parity at some point, instead of you guys cake walking right through it every year to setup your home-field advantage in playoffs

There still a good chance of an all MVFC final...remember, we did that in 2014!

[alvin.kmiec]

Doubt that is going to happen. NDSU returns a ton of talent next near. Bison might be a bit better actually


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At least it’s a Dome.


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[SU FAN]

ndsu opens with 4 straight games in the dome next year, shocker

[Twentysix]

If that league is suppose to be so good how about some of you other teams in the MVFC start beating NDSU in the regular season so they don't get gift wrapped all these home games in the postseason every single year.

Maybe next year you guys can prove how good the MVFC is by actually not allowing NDSU to waltz right through it again in the regular season, show that your league has some depth to it and take these guys down, NDSU home games until the championship need to stop, lol

This topic is partly joking and partly serious xsmiley_wixHonestly this post just shows that you don't watch or follow the mvfc. It just screams ignorance.

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[FUGameBreaker]

Not counting title games (neutral site)

Next week will be NDSU's 21st straight playoff game at home, time to step it up MVFC!

[Bison56]

I thought it was because NDSU cheated?

[Lorne_Malvo]

I thought it was because NDSU cheated?

I thought it was steroids?

[uni88]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, NDSU has lost like 7 games in the last 7 years. 5 or 6 of them have been in the dome.

It's not the dome.
I think it's 8 losses in the last 7 years and of those 8 losses, 6 have come against MVFC teams.

[SU FAN]

yeah would be nice to see a couple other teams in that league step up their game so the path for ndsu in the postseason is not so easy every year
last time a team from the valley outside of fargo won the national title was 1997, so 20 years ago

[Bison56]

yeah would be nice to see a couple other teams in that league step up their game so the path for ndsu in the postseason is not so easy every year
last time a team from the valley outside of fargo won the national title was 1997, so 20 years ago
Maybe the teams in the playoffs could step up? JMU did it.

Another year another thread started by an idiot crying about the dome. Same idiot who cried and said NDSU cheats.

[FUGameBreaker]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, NDSU has lost like 7 games in the last 7 years. 5 or 6 of them have been in the dome.

It's not the dome.



That's plays to my point though, MVFC teams need to step it up and start beating these guys in the regular season when they get them at home

[FUGameBreaker]

Maybe the teams in the playoffs could step up? JMU did it.

Another year another thread started by an idiot crying about the dome. Same idiot who cried and said NDSU cheats.


Don't be so sensitive lol, fact is MVFC teams need to step it up if that league is actually suppose to be so deep, I beg to differ since ndsu breezes through that league every year to setup home-field for 21 straight home playoff games, that's ridiculous

[Twentysix]

Yea but it's also only 7 years of playoff games. It doesn't take us 20 years to play 21 playoff games, unlike some of the other teams represented in this thread. 8)

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[Twentysix]

Says league isn't deep, yet league had the only in conference national championship in history. League has been represented in the NC game for 6 straight years by three different teams, soon to be 4 and the second ever in conference NC game. 8) :thinking:

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[PaladinFan]

Don't be so sensitive lol, fact is MVFC teams need to step it up if that league is actually suppose to be so deep, I beg to differ since ndsu breezes through that league every year to setup home-field for 21 straight home playoff games, that's ridiculous

It's an interesting point. During the SoCon's run atop the FCS/1AA, there were three legitimate top 10 programs pretty much every season (Furman, GSU, App State) and before that, Marshall.

It was extremely hard for any of those teams to run the table in conference play. From 1990 until 2013 (the year App/GSU left the conference), the SoCon tallied 7 national titles, but only had an undefeated conference champ 7 times in those 23 years.

So, yes, you can have a top-flight FCS conference where other good teams step up and keep one team from running the table every season.

[Prime Power]

yeah would be nice to see a couple other teams in that league step up their game so the path for ndsu in the postseason is not so easy every year
last time a team from the valley outside of fargo won the national title was 1997, so 20 years ago

Could be because NDSU has to play Valley teams in the playoffs every year due to regionalization and ends their championship hopes? SDSU, UNI, ISUr....ring a bell?

[Reign of Terrier]

The MVFC in the last 10 years has had North Dakota State, South Dakota State and every year there's that one random team that goes on a run and turns heads.

this year, they don't have the one random team and SDSU has a good bracket. I think the chestbeating should be isolated to NDSU and SDSU because the rest of the conference is meh

[Southern Bison]

Not counting title games (neutral site)

Next week will be NDSU's 21st straight playoff game at home, time to step it up MVFC!How about Furple step it up...dominate your OOC, win a mid-level SoCon title and earn a top 4 seed.

Then you can flaunt you purple Mad Hatter outfit for ESPN2 or ESPN3.

As your mom should've told ya...quit your damn bitchin', go out there and earn it!

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[ST_Lawson]

Most of NDSU's losses over the last few years are at home and most of NDSU's losses over the last few years are against MVFC teams (just off the top of my head, outside of JMU last year...when was the last time they lost to a non-MVFC team?...2010 maybe?

South Dakota State beat NDSU this year...Youngstown State took them to OT. The rest of the conference isn't that bad, it's just that NDSU is flat-out good.
Other MVFC teams in the playoffs:
Western Illinois lost by 2 at Weber State...Weber State who probably should have been seeded, beat Southern Utah on the road and then put a huge scare into JMU last night on the east coast
Northern Iowa destroyed Monmouth then lost to fellow MVFC member and #5 seed South Dakota State (whom they beat earlier in the year).
South Dakota State beat Northern Iowa and is currently leading New Hampshire 28-0 at halftime.
South Dakota beat Nicholls State on the road then again went on the road and lost a track meet to the #6 seed in a game where they were down by only 2 until nearly halfway through the 4th quarter.

So yea, everyone who isn't the Bison just suck, apparently xrolleyesx

[Reign of Terrier]

JMU: App State: MVFC: CAA


Or so I pray

(those of you who have been around long enough will know this reference)

[Southern Bison]

It's an interesting point. During the SoCon's run atop the FCS/1AA, there were three legitimate top 10 programs pretty much every season (Furman, GSU, App State) and before that, Marshall.

It was extremely hard for any of those teams to run the table in conference play. From 1990 until 2013 (the year App/GSU left the conference), the SoCon tallied 7 national titles, but only had an undefeated conference champ 7 times in those 23 years.

So, yes, you can have a top-flight FCS conference where other good teams step up and keep one team from running the table every season.You forgot to reference where only 1 of NDSU's 7 straight conference titles came with an 8-0 conference record.

FUGB is just pissing away his credibility on AGS.

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[Twentysix]

Most of NDSU's losses over the last few years are at home and most of NDSU's losses over the last few years are against MVFC teams (just off the top of my head, outside of JMU last year...when was the last time they lost to a non-MVFC team?...2010 maybe?

South Dakota State beat NDSU this year...Youngstown State took them to OT. The rest of the conference isn't that bad, it's just that NDSU is flat-out good.
Other MVFC teams in the playoffs:
Western Illinois lost by 2 at Weber State...Weber State who probably should have been seeded, beat Southern Utah on the road and then put a huge scare into JMU last night on the east coast
Northern Iowa destroyed Monmouth then lost to fellow MVFC member and #5 seed South Dakota State (whom they beat earlier in the year).
South Dakota State beat Northern Iowa and is currently leading New Hampshire 28-0 at halftime.
South Dakota beat Nicholls State on the road then again went on the road and lost a track meet to the #6 seed in a game where they were down by only 2 until nearly halfway through the 4th quarter.

So yea, everyone who isn't the Bison just suck, apparently xrolleyesxObviously they are not interested in facts. And ndsu lost to Montana in 2015. Before that it was a lot of years.

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[Bisonwinagn]

The MVFC in the last 10 years has had North Dakota State, South Dakota State and every year there's that one random team that goes on a run and turns heads.

this year, they don't have the one random team and SDSU has a good bracket. I think the chestbeating should be isolated to NDSU and SDSU because the rest of the conference is meh

Teams 3-7 in the valley are equal to every good team out there except JMU. It's proven over and over again, but some people refuse to believe reality.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think that the MVFC is the best conference, but I don't think that a data point in support of that point is the fact that NDSU has lost games to MVFC teams. It's exceptionally rare that a team goes seasons upon season without losing a conference game. When App state and Georgia Southern won their titles, most of them lost conference games.

[Reign of Terrier]

Teams 3-7 in the valley are equal to every good team out there except JMU. It's proven over and over again, but some people refuse to believe reality.

I don't see it. Sorry.

Teams fluctuate from year to year. What's impressive about NDSU is that they barely fluctuate and to some extent that's true with SDSU.

I think people just assume that there's no fluctuation and it's sort of unfalsifiable.

[Hammerhead]

Western Illinois gave Weber State more of game than SUU did.


The MVFC in the last 10 years has had North Dakota State, South Dakota State and every year there's that one random team that goes on a run and turns heads.

this year, they don't have the one random team and SDSU has a good bracket. I think the chestbeating should be isolated to NDSU and SDSU because the rest of the conference is meh

[Reign of Terrier]

Western Illinois gave Weber State more of game than SUU did.

And SUU beat Weber the first time.

Football is a volatile game.

[ST_Lawson]

Obviously they are not interested in facts. And ndsu lost to Montana in 2015. Before that it was a lot of years.

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Oh right, forgot about them playing at Montana.

Here's another thing...mid-level MVFC team Western Illinois...as mentioned lost at Weber State by 2 points (who proved themselves to be no slouch this year). Prior to that, the last non-conference loss was in September 2015...on the road...against then #1 Coastal Carolina...by 7 points...in a game that we were leading until halfway through the 4th quarter. We lose some games...but rarely do we lose to a non-MVFC team.
Of those 7 wins over non-conference teams, all but one were against full-scholarship FCS or FBS teams...and the one non-full scholly FCS win was the playoff win over Dayton.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

If the MVFC was actually as good as you like to claim, there would be some parity at some point, instead of you guys cake walking right through it every year to setup your home-field advantage in playoffs


You're a genius....xrolleyesx

SDSU will beat JMU for an all-Valley final.

[uni88]

The MVFC in the last 10 years has had North Dakota State, South Dakota State and every year there's that one random team that goes on a run and turns heads.

this year, they don't have the one random team and SDSU has a good bracket. I think the chestbeating should be isolated to NDSU and SDSU because the rest of the conference is mehISUr and UNI have had a down year here and there but they've also had a lot of success and are hardly a "random team that goes on a run." In fact they're right there with SDSU for threatening NDSU's reign.

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[Redbird007]

Excluding NDSU...which conference in the past 3 years has had the most participants in the national championship game?

Answer MVFC with 2. ISUr and Youngstown State
Others:
CAA 1
OVC 1

[Lehigh'98]

Excluding NDSU...which conference in the past 3 years has had the most participants in the national championship game?

Answer MVFC with 2. ISUr and Youngstown State
Others:
CAA 1
OVC 1

small sample size there. How about 10 years?

[Scooter]

I think that the MVFC is the best conference, but I don't think that a data point in support of that point is the fact that NDSU has lost games to MVFC teams. It's exceptionally rare that a team goes seasons upon season without losing a conference game. When App state and Georgia Southern won their titles, most of them lost conference games.
I thought that GSU and ASU stopped winning titles in the FCS when NDSU was finally able to play in the tourney?!?

[caribbeanhen]

I thought it was because NDSU cheated?

nope, playing an FCS schedule with top 40 FBS talent ain't cheating

[TheKingpin28]

nope, playing an FCS schedule with top 40 FBS talent ain't cheating

It's not NDSU's fault that the other schools choose to lag behind.

[uni88]

small sample size there. How about 10 years?
True but since this is about the rest of the MVFC with regard to NDSU it's fair to use the time period since NDSU began their run (last 6 years). In that time a team not named NDSU has played in the Natty 7 times. Of the 7 - 2 came from the MVFC (ISUr & YSU), 2 from the CAA (JMU & Towson), 2 from the Southland (SHSU x2) and 1 from the OVC (JSU).

[Reign of Terrier]

It's not NDSU's fault that the other schools choose to lag behind.

What's the expression? A leader without followers is just some guy taking a walk(?).

North Dakota State is the one guy walking and on occasion there's another guy with them, but no more than one or two

[frozennorth]

What's the expression? A leader without followers is just some guy taking a walk(?).

North Dakota is the one guy walking and on occasion there's another guy with them, but no more than one or two
there were at least 6 teams in the valley better than yours this year.

[Reign of Terrier]

there were at least 6 teams in the valley better than yours this year.

cool story. NDSU will still win all of the titles; maybe one or two other MVFC teams get there, but it'll be same song different verse. Wofford's got our own demons that keep us from getting to the big one. That's a completely separate question from how NDSU has optimally positioned themselves in the FCS.

[Reign of Terrier]

I mean, it's funny, y'all get offended when I think Wofford has a chance to win, and then you get offended when I point out how it's unlikely that wofford or 99% of the rest of FCS will be able to knock off NDSU in the near future.

This is the point where I probably need to log off lol

[Rabbit3467]

Maybe you east coast teams should schedule some home and home game with Ndsu and the mvfc so u can knocm us down a notch during the regular season.

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[caribbeanhen]

Maybe you east coast teams should schedule some home and home game with Ndsu and the mvfc so u can knocm us down a notch during the regular season.

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check the 2018 schedule

[centennial]

I mean, it's funny, y'all get offended when I think Wofford has a chance to win, and then you get offended when I point out how it's unlikely that wofford or 99% of the rest of FCS will be able to knock off NDSU in the near future.

This is the point where I probably need to log off lol
I think you need to take a break too. Life isn't fair. I played in a softball league this year, didn't win one game. Turn out every team had ex D1, D2 athletes on it. **** happens. We played the best team 11-6. NDSU is going to stay the gorilla in the room, our coach might get stolen next year. No one stays on top forever. Ask Montana.

[Thumper 76]

If that league is suppose to be so good how about some of you other teams in the MVFC start beating NDSU in the regular season so they don't get gift wrapped all these home games in the postseason every single year.

Maybe next year you guys can prove how good the MVFC is by actually not allowing NDSU to waltz right through it again in the regular season, show that your league has some depth to it and take these guys down, NDSU home games until the championship need to stop, lol

This topic is partly joking and partly serious xsmiley_wix

SDSU has won both of their last regular season matchups w NDSU. So in short, do some research dumbass.


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[Reign of Terrier]

I think you need to take a break too. Life isn't fair. I played in a softball league this year, didn't win one game. Turn out every team had ex D1, D2 athletes on it. **** happens. We played the best team 11-6. NDSU is going to stay the gorilla in the room, our coach might get stolen next year. No one stays on top forever. Ask Montana.

I'm chill here. I'm praising y'all. I'm just skeptical of the future of FCS being entertaining at this point. the momentum and virtuous cycle that is NDSU football (winning championships--> recruits well-->winning championships, etc) has them unprecedently better than anyone else in FCS history. Montana was never on top like this.

[mmiller_34]

so really this is just an I hate NDSU thread?

[Evolution Prime]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/EvolutionPrime/Mobile%20Uploads/breaking-news_zps1uiz6z3p.png

[Thumper 76]

so really this is just an I hate NDSU thread?

I could get behind that. Jus sayin


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[mmiller_34]

Maybe NDSU and SDSU should just go to the Mountain West Conference. Since winning seems to be offending so many people.

[Reign of Terrier]

Meh. I wouldn't object to SDSU winning the national title. It would be good for the game. At the same time I want NDSU to beat everyone by 4 TDs to confirm my thesis. Like they normally do.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I could get behind that. Jus sayin


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http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26722&stc=1

:D

[Winterborn]

I could get behind that. Jus sayin

Typical rabbit behavior.....

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6Zt0IkvJwtFwWVjO/giphy.gif

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

xlolx

[Thumper 76]

Typical rabbit behavior.....

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6Zt0IkvJwtFwWVjO/giphy.gif

What can we say, we eat bacon and make babies and we’re all out of bacon.....


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[No_Skill]

Maybe NDSU and SDSU should just go to the Mountain West Conference. Since winning seems to be offending so many people.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1d186fbcb3995bb71cceefa852862530/tenor.gif?itemid=3461551

[TheKingpin28]

What can we say, we eat bacon and make babies and we’re all out of bacon.....


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But ya'll despise Casey's Breakfast Pizza with Extra Bacon so your opinion is nullified. xthumbsupx

[Thumper 76]

But ya'll despise Casey's Breakfast Pizza with Extra Bacon so your opinion is nullified. xthumbsupx

Because we like cooked bacon


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[uni88]

What's the expression? A leader without followers is just some guy taking a walk(?).

North Dakota State is the one guy walking and usually there's another guy with them, but no more than one or two
FYP

What's wrong with having only 1 or 2 other teams with you? What other conferences have had 2-3 teams near the top in any given year. And how often has any conference had more than that?

Depending on match-ups it's not always difficult to make it to the round of 16 so let's use making it to the quarterfinals as an indicator of relative quality. From 2011-2017 (7 years), NDSU has been the only MVFC team in the Quarters only once. There has been 1 other team 4 times and 2 other teams twice. SDSU has made the playoffs 6 of the 7 years and made the Quarters twice; they've also been eliminated prior to the Quarters by NDSU twice. ISUr has made the playoffs 4 of the 7 years and made the Quarters 3 times. UNI has made the playoffs 4 of the 7 years and made the Quarters 2 times; they were eliminated prior to the Quarters by other MVFC teams the other 2 times. In that time, WIU, USD and ISUb have also made the playoffs. The MVFC has had 2 semifinalists 3 of the 7 years. To state that "North Dakota State is the one guy walking and on occasion there's another guy with them" is hyperbole and disrespectful of how competitive other MFVC teams have been. For comparison, over that same time no current SoCon team has made the Semis and only 2 (Wofford x3 and Chatt x2) have made the Quarters. If the MVFC is "one guy walking and on occasion there's another guy with them" then the SoCon is sitting in a rocker on the porch complaining about the MVFC not having enough teams walking.

I don't disagree with your belief that NDSU's domination has had a negative impact on FCS overall but you don't know much about the MVFC if you think other teams haven't stepped up their games to compete with NDSU. Rather than complaining, why don't you encourage your alma mater and the rest of the SoCon to step up their games too.

[TheKingpin28]

Because we like cooked bacon


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Exactly... xnodx

[Reign of Terrier]

FYP

What's wrong with having only 1 or 2 other teams with you? What other conferences have had 2-3 teams near the top in any given year. And how often has any conference had more than that?

Depending on match-ups it's not always difficult to make it to the round of 16 so let's use making it to the quarterfinals as an indicator of relative quality. From 2011-2017 (7 years), NDSU has been the only MVFC team in the Quarters only once. There has been 1 other team 4 times and 2 other teams twice. SDSU has made the playoffs 6 of the 7 years and made the Quarters twice; they've also been eliminated prior to the Quarters by NDSU twice. ISUr has made the playoffs 4 of the 7 years and made the Quarters 3 times. UNI has made the playoffs 4 of the 7 years and made the Quarters 2 times; they were eliminated prior to the Quarters by other MVFC teams the other 2 times. In that time, WIU, USD and ISUb have also made the playoffs. The MVFC has had 2 semifinalists 3 of the 7 years. To state that "North Dakota State is the one guy walking and on occasion there's another guy with them" is hyperbole and disrespectful of how competitive other MFVC teams have been. For comparison, over that same time no current SoCon team has made the Semis and only 2 (Wofford x3 and Chatt x2) have made the Quarters. If the MVFC is "one guy walking and on occasion there's another guy with them" then the SoCon is sitting in a rocker on the porch complaining about the MVFC not having enough teams walking.

I don't disagree with your belief that NDSU's domination has had a negative impact on FCS overall but you don't know much about the MVFC if you think other teams haven't stepped up their games to compete with NDSU. Rather than complaining, why don't you encourage your alma mater and the rest of the SoCon to step up their games too.


You've misinterpreted my post. I'm not talking about the MVFC in the context of every FCS conference. I'm talking about NDSU in the context of the FCS.

And I generally agree with most of your post, I'm not taking a shot at the MVFC. But I think it's a lot easier to get to the quarterfinals than you'd think. Wofford's done it enough (6 of 8 times) and I'm unimpressed with our program relative to other programs, If you get a bye, you win one game and you're in. If you don't get a bye, you can get a favorable matchup then beat a decent team. Regionalization ruins this, because you have a lot of teams in the first round rematching, making quarterfinal representation pretty affirmative. It's also worth noting that the current playoff bracket is pretty new and there were a lot more teams who got byes before 2013.

Because I can't argue against the fact that MVFC teams have made it deep in the playoffs, but if you take away NDSU, the outcomes are indistinguishable from another top tier conference. They get more representation, sure, but given their representation is their win percentage that much better? (I personally think win percentage is a better measure than how far teams go)

And I'm not bringing this up to knock the MVFC. I just think everyone is underselling how much this is just NDSU's world and we're just living in it and MVFC fans haven't even noticed it.

[stevdock]

You want us out of the dome for the semi's?? That's not even a hard equation. We are going to drop a game during the regular season as it is very hard to make it through our conference without a loss. So the rest of the country needs two teams that are undefeated but you've got to beat somebody. You can't just play cupcake after cupcake and expect your undefeated schedule to do it. Oh and then they've got to win their playoff games against good teams.

To get us out of hosting the quarters? Somebody needs to come play us OOC and beat us. Get your AD to call us and schedule us. EWU has taken the challenge the last two years and almost got it done last year. EWU and/or CC get it done last year and we don't host the run last year. Delaware is stepping up in the future. Who else is going to do it??

[Reign of Terrier]

So NDSU, in 28 playoffs games since 2010 (that's crazy in itself), 21 of them have been by double digits. 18 of those games were by 20 points +. They lost 2 games, but they were to the eventual national champions. The 5 games they didn't win by double digits were clustered into 2 seasons (2012 and 2014).

So, to put things in perspective, because we have such a ****ing big sample of NDSU games, here are your baseline expectations:

92% chance NDSU wins
64% chance NDSU blows you out
and if you win, congrats you're basically the national title.

You can take NDSU out of the MVFC and the MVFC is still the best conference, but don't pretend like everyone else is on the same level as NDSU when playoff time comes around. Going back to 2010, here are the comparable numbers for the MVFC playoff mainstays UNI, SDSU and Illinois State. I didn't include Youngstown because last year was their first playoff appearance in like a decade.

UNI: 5-5 since 2010 (wiki wouldn't let me go back farther)
SDSU: 6-6 since 2009
Illinois State: 5-4

It's late, so I'm not going to go back and compare other teams, but I know Wofford is at .500 no matter what date you go back to. I'd love to see how everyone else compares.

[thebootfitter]

UNI: 5-5 since 2010 (wiki wouldn't let me go back farther)
SDSU: 6-6 since 2009
Illinois State: 5-4
I'm too lazy to look anything up right now, but how many of those losses are to other MVFC teams?

I also think it is a bit disingenuous to omit Youngstown from last year. If we're discussing the MVFC outside of NDSU, then they should absolutely be considered.

[Theee Catrabbit]

A) SDSU did it's part.
B) the rest of you need to get better. The reason NDSU has such a road of cupcakes is because you all sent consecutive cupcakes to play them. Don't blame the MVFC for the bulk of your shortcomings.

[Evolution Prime]

I'm too lazy to look anything up right now, but how many of those losses are to other MVFC teams?

I also think it is a bit disingenuous to omit Youngstown from last year. If we're discussing the MVFC outside of NDSU, then they should absolutely be considered.

For SDSU, we have been eliminated by NDSU three times, Montana twice, and Eastern Washington once.

[dewey]

I'm too lazy to look anything up right now, but how many of those losses are to other MVFC teams?

I also think it is a bit disingenuous to omit Youngstown from last year. If we're discussing the MVFC outside of NDSU, then they should absolutely be considered.

SDSU has lost to NDSU in 2012, 2014 and 2016
UNI lost to Illinois State in 2014, NDSU in 2015 and SDSU 2017
Illinois State lost to NDSU in 2014

That is the outcomes I can remember anyways.

Dewey

[uni88]

And I generally agree with most of your post, I'm not taking a shot at the MVFC. But I think it's a lot easier to get to the quarterfinals than you'd think. Wofford's done it enough (6 of 8 times) and I'm unimpressed with our program relative to other programs, If you get a bye, you win one game and you're in. If you don't get a bye, you can get a favorable matchup then beat a decent team. Regionalization ruins this, because you have a lot of teams in the first round rematching, making quarterfinal representation pretty affirmative. It's also worth noting that the current playoff bracket is pretty new and there were a lot more teams who got byes before 2013.

Because I can't argue against the fact that MVFC teams have made it deep in the playoffs, but if you take away NDSU, the outcomes are indistinguishable from another top tier conference. They get more representation, sure, but given their representation is their win percentage that much better? (I personally think win percentage is a better measure than how far teams go)

And I think it's easier to win your first round game when you're matched up with an opponent from the NEC or Patriot (props to Lehigh for beating UNI) or even the Big South before it made some serious improvements. Location impacts the quality of a team's first round opponent and can help or hinder their (and their conference's) winning percentage. Using Quarterfinal participation isn't perfect but I'm not sure it is any more flawed than playoff winning percentage.

You did make me curious though so I crunched some numbers and here is what I found on conference winning percentages since 2011 (I rushed it so there is a chance the numbers aren't perfect):
MVFC - 71%
Southland - 58%
MVFC w/o NDSU - 56%
CAA - 55%
Big Sky - 42%
SoCon - 42%
Big South - 40%
OVC - 39%
Patriot - 33%
Pioneer - 33%
MEAC - 29%
NEC - 13%

So you're right that without NDSU, the MVFC is on par for conference winning percentage with the Southland and CAA. Due to regionalization the CAA does typically have an advantage in strength of opponent in the first round.

The Southland has been carried by SHSU. Take SHSU out and the Southland winning percentage drops to 27%. This makes SHSU's run over the last 7-8 years all the more apparent. SHSU fans have tried to bring this up but been shouted down due to their history of losing big to quality opponents. The criticism is deserved but they also have earned some kudos for their incredible success short of actually winning a natty. They have been the most successful team outside of NDSU.


And I'm not bringing this up to knock the MVFC. I just think everyone is underselling how much this is just NDSU's world and we're just living in it and MVFC fans haven't even noticed it.

Oh we've noticed it. We've been busy trying to catch up. That's why the MVFC is so good - the Bison have set a high standard and they keep pushing it higher and a number of other MVFC teams have worked hard to keep up.

[BisonBacker]

I'm enjoying the hell out of this thread xnodx

[caribbeanhen]

cool story. NDSU will still win all of the titles; maybe one or two other MVFC teams get there, but it'll be same song different verse. Wofford's got our own demons that keep us from getting to the big one. That's a completely separate question from how NDSU has optimally positioned themselves in the FCS.

I call the MVFC Paul McCartney and Wings and we all know who Paul is

[Thumper 76]

I call the MVFC Paul McCartney and Wings and we all know who Paul is

Yup looked like it this weekend....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

SDSU has lost to NDSU in 2012, 2014 and 2016
UNI lost to Illinois State in 2014, NDSU in 2015 and SDSU 2017
Illinois State lost to NDSU in 2014

That is the outcomes I can remember anyways.

Dewey
Regionalization is a bitch. I think everyone is effected by it. I think it would be interesting to see everyone's playoff record if you take out NDSU.

And I think it's easier to win your first round game when you're matched up with an opponent from the NEC or Patriot (props to Lehigh for beating UNI) or even the Big South before it made some serious improvements. Location impacts the quality of a team's first round opponent and can help or hinder their (and their conference's) winning percentage. Using Quarterfinal participation isn't perfect but I'm not sure it is any more flawed than playoff winning percentage.

You did make me curious though so I crunched some numbers and here is what I found on conference winning percentages since 2011 (I rushed it so there is a chance the numbers aren't perfect):
MVFC - 71%
Southland - 58%
MVFC w/o NDSU - 56%
CAA - 55%
Big Sky - 42%
SoCon - 42%
Big South - 40%
OVC - 39%
Patriot - 33%
Pioneer - 33%
MEAC - 29%
NEC - 13%

So you're right that without NDSU, the MVFC is on par for conference winning percentage with the Southland and CAA. Due to regionalization the CAA does typically have an advantage in strength of opponent in the first round.

The Southland has been carried by SHSU. Take SHSU out and the Southland winning percentage drops to 27%. This makes SHSU's run over the last 7-8 years all the more apparent. SHSU fans have tried to bring this up but been shouted down due to their history of losing big to quality opponents. The criticism is deserved but they also have earned some kudos for their incredible success short of actually winning a natty. They have been the most successful team outside of NDSU.



Oh we've noticed it. We've been busy trying to catch up. That's why the MVFC is so good - the Bison have set a high standard and they keep pushing it higher and a number of other MVFC teams have worked hard to keep up.


The way I see it, the MVFC is kind of like the Big 10. It's a deep conference without it (Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, Iowa, etc), but Ohio State wins all the hardware and those teams aren't stupidly better than everyone else.

[Redbird 4th & short]

And I think it's easier to win your first round game when you're matched up with an opponent from the NEC or Patriot (props to Lehigh for beating UNI) or even the Big South before it made some serious improvements. Location impacts the quality of a team's first round opponent and can help or hinder their (and their conference's) winning percentage. Using Quarterfinal participation isn't perfect but I'm not sure it is any more flawed than playoff winning percentage.

You did make me curious though so I crunched some numbers and here is what I found on conference winning percentages since 2011 (I rushed it so there is a chance the numbers aren't perfect):
MVFC - 71%
Southland - 58%
MVFC w/o NDSU - 56%
CAA - 55%
Big Sky - 42%
SoCon - 42%
Big South - 40%
OVC - 39%
Patriot - 33%
Pioneer - 33%
MEAC - 29%
NEC - 13%

So you're right that without NDSU, the MVFC is on par for conference winning percentage with the Southland and CAA. Due to regionalization the CAA does typically have an advantage in strength of opponent in the first round.

The Southland has been carried by SHSU. Take SHSU out and the Southland winning percentage drops to 27%. This makes SHSU's run over the last 7-8 years all the more apparent. SHSU fans have tried to bring this up but been shouted down due to their history of losing big to quality opponents. The criticism is deserved but they also have earned some kudos for their incredible success short of actually winning a natty. They have been the most successful team outside of NDSU.



Oh we've noticed it. We've been busy trying to catch up. That's why the MVFC is so good - the Bison have set a high standard and they keep pushing it higher and a number of other MVFC teams have worked hard to keep up.

Let's look at same numbers removing in-conference playoff games. Here is MVFC playoff results since that year

- 2011, 2 teams, 5-1 overall, 5-1 non-MVFC
- 2012, 3 teams, 7-2 overall, 6-1 non-MVFC ... 3 teams, and just 1 non-MVFC loss on road by my ISUr against 2 seed; 2 teams in final 8
- 2013, 2 teams, 5-1 overall, 5-1 non-MVFC
- 2014, 5 teams, 10-4 overall, 7-1 non-MVFC ... 5 teams, and just 1 non-MVFC loss on road by our 5th place team against 8 seed; 5 teams in round of 16, 2 in Natty
- 2015, 5 teams, 8-4 overall, 6-2 non-MVFC ... 5 teams, and just 2 non-MVFC losses; 3 teams in final 8
- 2016, 4 teams, 7-4 overall, 6-3 non-MVFC ... excluding NDSU, were 5-2 non-MVFC, 2 teams in final 4
- 2017, 5 teams, 6-3 overall, 5-2 non-MVFC ... both non-MVFC losses were road losses; again have 2 teams in final 4

Total overall is 48-19 ... less 24-1 NDSU = 24-18

Total non-MVFC is 40-11 .. less 20-1 NDSU = 20-10

So MVFC from 2011-17 has a 67% win % in non-MVFC playoff games, excluding NDSU. By the way, I didn't count home/away, but I promise you, when removing NDSU, MVFC teams have played many more road games than home games and still went 20-10 against non-MVFC teams.

Curious what other conferences are using exact same criteria. Let's do Southland without SHSU, Big Sky without EWU, CAA without JMU .. and look at non-conference records.

Someone remind me of the premise of this thread ??

[Redbird 4th & short]

Let's look at same numbers removing in-conference playoff games. Here is MVFC playoff results since that year

- 2011, 2 teams, 5-1 overall, 5-1 non-MVFC
- 2012, 3 teams, 7-2 overall, 6-1 non-MVFC ... 3 teams, and just 1 non-MVFC loss on road by my ISUr against 2 seed; 2 teams in final 8
- 2013, 2 teams, 5-1 overall, 5-1 non-MVFC
- 2014, 5 teams, 10-4 overall, 7-1 non-MVFC ... 5 teams, and just 1 non-MVFC loss on road by our 5th place team against 8 seed; 5 teams in round of 16, 2 in Natty
- 2015, 5 teams, 8-4 overall, 6-2 non-MVFC ... 5 teams, and just 2 non-MVFC losses; 3 teams in final 8
- 2016, 4 teams, 7-4 overall, 6-3 non-MVFC ... excluding NDSU, were 5-2 non-MVFC, 2 teams in final 4
- 2017, 5 teams, 6-3 overall, 5-2 non-MVFC ... both non-MVFC losses were road losses; again have 2 teams in final 4

Total overall is 48-19 ... less 24-1 NDSU = 24-18

Total non-MVFC is 40-11 .. less 20-1 NDSU = 20-10

So MVFC from 2011-17 has a 67% win % in non-MVFC playoff games, excluding NDSU. By the way, I didn't count home/away, but I promise you, when removing NDSU, MVFC teams have played many more road games than home games and still went 20-10 against non-MVFC teams.

Curious what other conferences are using exact same criteria. Let's do Southland without SHSU, Big Sky without EWU, CAA without JMU .. and look at non-conference records.

Someone remind me of the premise of this thread ??

btw .. removing in conference playoff games from overall playoff record will make below .500 teams even further below .500. And removing SHSU, EWU, and JMU from their respective conferences, will very likely put those 3 conferences below .500 before removing .. and then further below .500 when removing their in-conference games

edit:

MVFC is 67% without NDSU since 2011 .. betting the rest are near .500 or way below .500

But right, without NDSU, we're no better than anyone else.

[SUPharmacist]

I call the MVFC Paul McCartney and Wings and we all know who Paul is

Is it Bo Pelini?

[Reign of Terrier]

btw .. removing in conference playoff games from overall playoff record will make below .500 teams even further below .500. And removing SHSU, EWU, and JMU from their respective conferences, will very likely put those 3 conferences below .500 before removing .. and then further below .500 when removing their in-conference games

edit:

MVFC is 67% without NDSU since 2011 .. betting the rest are near .500 or way below .500

But right, without NDSU, we're no better than anyone else.

You do realize by making so many caveats you're basically making these stats irrelevant.

Here's a homework assignment (I say a homework assignment because I'm not doing it as I'm fading interest in the subject, as is natural in the offseason):

What's everyone else's playoff record if you take out losses to conferences and NDSU? I know Wofford would be above .500 (4-2), as would Furman (2-0), as would Georgia Southern (6-1). The Citadel, Chattanooga would be at .500 so. Samford and App (maybe? I can't remember) would be below .500 (I have no idea if you guys are counting former teams here, but it's at least kind of relevant).

[Redbird 4th & short]

You do realize by making so many caveats you're basically making these stats irrelevant.

Here's a homework assignment (I say a homework assignment because I'm not doing it as I'm fading interest in the subject, as is natural in the offseason):

What's everyone else's playoff record if you take out losses to conferences and NDSU? I know Wofford would be above .500 (4-2), as would Furman (2-0), as would Georgia Southern (6-1). The Citadel, Chattanooga would be at .500 so. Samford and App (maybe? I can't remember) would be below .500 (I have no idea if you guys are counting former teams here, but it's at least kind of relevant).

that is a rediculously convenient presumption on your part ... I actually made it far more relevant, far more relevant than your argument ... your issue with my balanced argument is it clearly disproved whatever preconception you came into this argument with.

My break down removed NDSU just like you did. Then the only other thing I did was remove the MVFC head to head games .. because it makes complete sense to do so. Then suggest maybe we should take away everyone else's best team to ... oh I don't know, make it fair argument about the strength and depth of each conference ?? Which to most objective people ... who haven't already made up their mind ... makes complete sense for purpose of this thread ... how good is MVFC without NDSU compared to other conferences ... right ???

20-10 is impressive .. surprised you, didn't it ??

p.s. I didn't take out any losses to other conferences best teams; nor did I cherry pick certain teams .. again, I made it a 100% balanced argument. stop tilting it to your advantage to fit your conclusion.

[Reign of Terrier]

that is a rediculously convenient presumption on your part ... I actually made it far more relevant, far more relevant than your argument ... your issue with my balanced argument is it clearly disproved whatever preconception you came into this argument with.

My break down removed NDSU just like you did. Then the only other thing I did was remove the MVFC head to head games .. because it makes complete sense to do so. Then suggest maybe we should take away everyone else's best team to ... oh I don't know, make it fair argument about the strength and depth of each conference ?? Which to most objective people ... who haven't already made up their mind ... makes complete sense for purpose of this thread ... how good is MVFC without NDSU compared to other conferences ... right ???

20-10 is impressive .. surprised you, didn't it ??

p.s. I didn't take out any losses to other conferences best teams; nor did I cherry pick certain teams .. again, I made it a 100% balanced argument. stop tilting it to your advantage to fit your conclusion.

I mean, I was just making the general point that if you take the best teams out of every conference of course they won't do as well in the W/L record. Until last year, JMU was pretty much indistinguishable from the mass of humanity that was the CAA in terms of playoff success.

My general point is that NDSU is so successful in their own right that if you take them out the MVFC isn't spectacularly better than any other conference. The difference between 56% and 44% for instance, is a matter of like 1-2 games going another way. Further, there are plenty of examples of MVFC teams blowing themselves out in the playoffs and being blown out as well. How does that factor in our calculus? Because I'm seeing a lot of selective interpretation. If an MVFC team blows out an MVFC team in the playoffs, the loser in the situation isn't condemned as a poorly inferior representative of their conference, but if it happens to the fourth place team in the CAA, it's a different story.

I fully concede that the MVFC is the best contest. I just think if you take out NDSU and look at each individual game, they aren't head and shoulder better than the CAA or Big Sky or Socon. They're at the margin of error, within a score of the best of each conference, and that trend should be commended and recognized as legitimate. At the same time, it should be also acknowledged that the margin of error for most teams that aren't NDSU in the MVFC is no different from the margin of error for any other conference.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I mean, I was just making the general point that if you take the best teams out of every conference of course they won't do as well in the W/L record. Until last year, JMU was pretty much indistinguishable from the mass of humanity that was the CAA in terms of playoff success.

My general point is that NDSU is so successful in their own right that if you take them out the MVFC isn't spectacularly better than any other conference. The difference between 56% and 44% for instance, is a matter of like 1-2 games going another way. Further, there are plenty of examples of MVFC teams blowing themselves out in the playoffs and being blown out as well. How does that factor in our calculus? Because I'm seeing a lot of selective interpretation. If an MVFC team blows out an MVFC team in the playoffs, the loser in the situation isn't condemned as a poorly inferior representative of their conference, but if it happens to the fourth place team in the CAA, it's a different story.

I fully concede that the MVFC is the best contest. I just think if you take out NDSU and look at each individual game, they aren't head and shoulder better than the CAA or Big Sky or Socon. They're at the margin of error, within a score of the best of each conference, and that trend should be commended and recognized as legitimate. At the same time, it should be also acknowledged that the margin of error for most teams that aren't NDSU in the MVFC is no different from the margin of error for any other conference.
nothing selective in my argument, I balanced it ... and our win % without NDSU 5 Natty runs is 67%, not 56%. Must remove in conf games .. that is .500 result no matter how good/bad the teams or conferences are.

And must say, you have a very generous interpretation of being within the "margin of error" .. 67% playoff win % after removing our best team ... that is not within my margin of error.

[uni88]

nothing selective in my argument, I balanced it ... and our win % without NDSU 5 Natty runs is 67%, not 56%. Must remove in conf games .. that is .500 result no matter how good/bad the teams or conferences are.

And must say, you have a very generous interpretation of being within the "margin of error" .. 67% playoff win % after removing our best team ... that is not within my margin of error.
I believe that the argument YT is trying to make is that without NDSU the MVFC is just one of many very good conferences. My thoughts on how to do a fair and accurate comparison:
1) Take NDSU's record out of the comparison.
2) Leave the other conferences' top teams in. I took SHSU out of an earlier comparison because I was amazed by how responsible they were for the Southland's playoff success.
3) Remove intra-conference matchups (wins & losses). If we're comparing conferences, intra-conference matches are not indicative of conference strength relative to other conferences and are a guaranteed .500 record that brings the stronger conferences down and the weaker conferences up.
4) The 56% MVFC percentage was from my analysis that included intra-conference match-ups. Redbird's percentage is a more accurate number.
5) Ideally you also:
a) Take out every conference's games against NDSU since we're removing them from the comparison.
b) Factor in the strength of the opponents faced. Eastern teams have the advantage of more frequently facing NEC (13%), MEAC (29%) and Patriot (33%) teams (overall 27% playoff winning percentage) while MVFC teams are more frequently matched up with OVC (39%) and Big Sky (42%) opponents (overall 41% playoff winning percentage). SOS should matter when comparing winning percentages.

IMO, the MVFC is a great conference that is the best in FCS right now. You take out NDSU and it's not as dominant of a conference but it is still the best. This run will end at some point in the future and another conference will take over. It's the cyclical nature of things.

[thebootfitter]

I believe that the argument YT is trying to make is that without NDSU the MVFC is just one of many very good conferences. My thoughts on how to do a fair and accurate comparison:
1) Take NDSU's record out of the comparison.
2) Leave the other conferences' top teams in. I took SHSU out of an earlier comparison because I was amazed by how responsible they were for the Southland's playoff success.
3) Remove intra-conference matchups (wins & losses). If we're comparing conferences, intra-conference matches are not indicative of conference strength relative to other conferences and are a guaranteed .500 record that brings the stronger conferences down and the weaker conferences up.
4) The 56% MVFC percentage was from my analysis that included intra-conference match-ups. Redbird's percentage is a more accurate number.
5) Ideally you also:
a) Take out every conference's games against NDSU since we're removing them from the comparison.
b) Factor in the strength of the opponents faced. Eastern teams have the advantage of more frequently facing NEC (13%), MEAC (29%) and Patriot (33%) teams (overall 27% playoff winning percentage) while MVFC teams are more frequently matched up with OVC (39%) and Big Sky (42%) opponents (overall 41% playoff winning percentage). SOS should matter when comparing winning percentages.

IMO, the MVFC is a great conference that is the best in FCS right now. You take out NDSU and it's not as dominant of a conference but it is still the best. This run will end at some point in the future and another conference will take over. It's the cyclical nature of things.Good post.

Any good team can beat any other good team on any given Saturday. Several conferences have some good teams. The MVFC has several good teams and one or two that are on a different level. (JMU last year was also on a similar level. Jury is out on this year still, I think. No doubt they are very good though.)

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Twentysix]

TLDR

What is the logic of taking NDSU out of the MVFC for comparisons, but not also taking the top team out of every other conference too?

Seems like it would be more fair to take away every conferences #1 and then compare the conferences based on 2-? Or does that result in the MVFC still being really lopsided as the #1 and thus not achieving the desired results?

[thebootfitter]

TLDR

What is the logic of taking NDSU out of the MVFC for comparisons, but not also taking the top team out of every other conference too?

Seems like it would be more fair to take away every conferences #1 and then compare the conferences based on 2-? Or does that result in the MVFC still being really lopsided as the #1 and thus not achieving the desired results?I think the point is that NDSU is separate from the pack and should be treated as outside not only the MVFC but also the entire FCS. In other words... What would the FCS conferences look like without NDSU entirely?

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[clenz]

I think the point is that NDSU is separate from the pack and should be treated as outside not only the MVFC but also the entire FCS. In other words... What would the FCS conferences look like without NDSU entirely?

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Impossible to know.

I’d argue UNI in 15 would win the title if not for running into NDSU. SDSU has a team that could’ve made the run. Illinois State wins the title of you replace NDSU with anyone else that year.




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[thebootfitter]

Impossible to know.

I’d argue UNI in 15 would win the title if not for running into NDSU. SDSU has a team that could’ve made the run. Illinois State wins the title of you replace NDSU with anyone else that year.




Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYeah, I agree that it's impossible to know. But that's what a few folks in this thread are speculating about. Looking at playoff records and such excluding NDSU and then comparing conferences.

Seems a bit silly to me because NDSU actually IS in the MVFC and in the FCS, so it's not valid to remove them. But I get the hypothetical speculation, I guess.

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[caribbeanhen]

I think the point is that NDSU is separate from the pack and should be treated as outside not only the MVFC but also the entire FCS. In other words... What would the FCS conferences look like without NDSU entirely?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

that's how I see it, North Dakota State is top #40 FBS on an average day, what they did to Wofford, who is damn good FCS football team, has them approaching top #25

FCS playoffs started with 24 teams, but only 2 of them had a real legitimate shot, now we have the * South Dak State making some real noise

The point that YoungTerrior is making has been made before, he is much more eloquent with it, no doubt MVFC fans are biased towards there conference, big deal we are all biased to differing degree.

In fact, at the risk of embarrasing myself, I entered the MVFC fan pick em game run by Dewey. I would say almost everyone of the MVFC fans knows more about Valley football than I do, my plan was to use there bias against them and it's working out farily well.....

Yep, for the most part Valley Fans are not the most objective fans

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?199842-MVFC-predictions-Quarterfinal-(all-games)

[Redbird 4th & short]

i don't mind the "as if" question posed, since NDSU is clearly the outlier .. but then you have to even the scales from there and look at it objectively. Clearly.. EWU, SHSU, and JMU are not NDSU ... so in that sense, even removing all 4 from respective conferences is an "uneven" start to the debate ... just ask SDSU and their near annual trek thru Fargo .. what could they have done, if not for meeting NDSU in round of 16 or 8 so many times. And even having to travel to Big Sky for play in games, when they were debatably top 8. Then come last year, where SDSU cleary had better resume than UND, but still got stuck with 8 seed, while UND got undeserved 7 seed ... and had to again play into #1 NDSU ... Fargo.

So as clenz said, the "what if no NDSU" argument also would have helped MVFC win more games too.

[Lehigh'98]

I agree that NDSU has made the MVFC better as a whole because they have had to respond to them. Problem is no one, excluding JMU last year, has been able to match them come playoff time. They are a dominant force. MVFC is the best conference this decade, no doubt, but having NDSU has made it look much more lopsided than it probably would have been otherwise. Really can't believe Klieman hasn't been snatched up yet.

[Professor Chaos]

I agree that NDSU has made the MVFC better as a whole because they have had to respond to them. Problem is no one, excluding JMU last year, has been able to match them come playoff time. They are a dominant force. MVFC is the best conference this decade, no doubt, but having NDSU has made it look much more lopsided than it probably would have been otherwise. Really can't believe Klieman hasn't been snatched up yet.
I don't think NDSU was that head and shoulders above everyone else like you make it seem. In both 2012 and 2014 they had multiple close games that could've gone either way but the NDSU players, to their credit, made the plays at winning time just like JMU did last year.

To have a 5 year run like NDSU did from 2011-2015 takes supreme talent and effort but it takes a bit of luck too. That's the main reason why I'm nearly positive that no team, NDSU included, will come close to winning 5 in a row again in my lifetime.

[Redbird 4th & short]

that's how I see it, North Dakota State is top #40 FBS on an average day, what they did to Wofford, who is damn good FCS football team, has them approaching top #25

FCS playoffs started with 24 teams, but only 2 of them had a real legitimate shot, now we have the * South Dak State making some real noise

The point that YoungTerrior is making has been made before, he is much more eloquent with it, no doubt MVFC fans are biased towards there conference, big deal we are all biased to differing degree.

In fact, at the risk of embarrasing myself, I entered the MVFC fan pick em game run by Dewey. I would say almost everyone of the MVFC fans knows more about Valley football than I do, my plan was to use there bias against them and it's working out farily well.....

Yep, for the most part Valley Fans are not the most objective fans

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?199842-MVFC-predictions-Quarterfinal-(all-games)

you do realize that 72% of the regular season games are conference games .. where MVFC bias plays no part ?? The bias only comes into play for the 28% of OOC regular season games.

Playoffs break down differently on that front .. but other than WIU losing at Weber St, the MVFC is doing quite well again.

Right ?

[Lehigh'98]

you do realize that 72% of the regular season games are conference games .. where MVFC bias plays no part ?? The bias only comes into play for the 28% of OOC regular season games.

Playoffs break down differently on that front .. but other than WIU losing at Weber St, the MVFC is doing quite well again.

Right ?

SD lost to Sammy as well.

[Redbird 4th & short]

SD lost to Sammy as well.

yep, but we're very short handed ... so I actually picked SHSU to win. If USD were at home or less short handed, they would likely have won.

[ST_Lawson]

Impossible to know.

I’d argue UNI in 15 would win the title if not for running into NDSU. SDSU has a team that could’ve made the run. Illinois State wins the title of you replace NDSU with anyone else that year.




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Right, and where would everyone else move up to in regular conference standings if we replace NDSU with...say Murray State (rumored to be likely to join the MVC soon, which could impact their football situation as well). For most MVFC teams, that's going to be +1 win on the season. WIU over the last three years likely goes 7-4, 7-4, then 9-2, making the playoffs each year and being seeded this year (vs 6-5, 6-5, 8-3, making playoffs in 2 of the years, not seeded this year).

There's a lot of "downticket" impact that is really hard to calculate too.

I do see the argument though because people are calling us the "Paul McCartney and Wings" conference...when really we're more like the "Traveling Wilburys" ;)


Really can't believe Klieman hasn't been snatched up yet.

Helps that NDSU pays like a MAC school.

[thebootfitter]

Helps that NDSU pays like a MAC school.Not quite. But the difference isn't enough to entice him away to a mediocre or dumpster fire MAC program.

[ST_Lawson]

Not quite. But the difference isn't enough to entice him away to a mediocre or dumpster fire MAC program.

What'd Klieman make this year? I thought I heard that if he ends up winning the championship, he'd be right around 450 including the bonuses? That'd put him ahead of four Sun Belt and six MAC schools: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

Still, yea....NDSU pays very well for an FCS school, cost of living has got to be pretty low too, and it's gotta be nice to be able to win all those games.

[Bison56]

What'd Klieman make this year? I thought I heard that if he ends up winning the championship, he'd be right around 450 including the bonuses? That'd put him ahead of four Sun Belt and six MAC schools: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

Still, yea....NDSU pays very well for an FCS school, cost of living has got to be pretty low too, and it's gotta be nice to be able to win all those games.

Nothing cheap about living in Fargo if you are a home owner, but I wont get into that here. Other wise it isn't too bad.

[jacksfan29]

I call the MVFC Paul McCartney and Wings and we all know who Paul is

You do realize the CAA is JMU and a group of average, and if UNH is any indication, below average teams?

[POD Knows]

What'd Klieman make this year? I thought I heard that if he ends up winning the championship, he'd be right around 450 including the bonuses? That'd put him ahead of four Sun Belt and six MAC schools: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

Still, yea....NDSU pays very well for an FCS school, cost of living has got to be pretty low too, and it's gotta be nice to be able to win all those games.Nope, real estate in Fargo is expensive as hell. You don't get much for under 250K.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26742&stc=1

[ST_Lawson]

Nope, real estate in Fargo is expensive as hell. You don't get much for under 250K.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26742&stc=1

I did not know that. Still...half a mil is going to go quite a ways just about anywhere outside of the really big cities.

[Bison56]

Nope, real estate in Fargo is expensive as hell. You don't get much for under 250K.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26742&stc=1

Don't forget the $5000 a year property tax and special assessments!

[POD Knows]

Don't forget the $5000 a year property tax and special assessments!Yea, throw another 20K in specials and at least $5000 in property taxes. The specials is why I decided not to buy in Fargo or West Fargo.

[nevadagriz]

NDSU has been, is, and will be the best team in FCS for the foreseeable future. It is up to other teams to figure out how to beat them in the Playoffs. The MVFC is the top conference because all of their teams have had to up their programs to try and keep pace with the Bison! SDSU is showing this year what they can do when they don't get sent to Fargo in the early rounds.
Same things were said when Montana went on their run. "Oh Montana only wins in playoffs because of home games and they get there because of a weak conference" Every year though a couple Big Sky teams made noise in the playoffs.

[JMU-MRD-DAD]

You do realize the CAA is JMU and a group of average, and if UNH is any indication, below average teams?
You do realize that JMU beat the LAST two MVFC opponents....and will beat SDSU on Saturday.

Go Dukes

[Professor Chaos]

Yea, throw another 20K in specials and at least $5000 in property taxes. The specials is why I decided not to buy in Fargo or West Fargo.
Just moved into a brand new house in south Fargo last year. I wish my specials were only $20k.

[clenz]

I pay over 5,000 on a house that was less than $200,000

[POD Knows]

Just moved into a brand new house in south Fargo last year. I wish my specials were only $20k.LOL, that is what they were when I was looking back in 2007, I was looking over by Osgood.

[Hammerhead]

Rent in Fargo isn't all that cheap. Restaurants are kind of spendy too since most places have to pay well over minimum wage with our low unemployment rate.

[SU FAN]

NDSU has been, is, and will be the best team in FCS for the foreseeable future. It is up to other teams to figure out how to beat them in the Playoffs. The MVFC is the top conference because all of their teams have had to up their programs to try and keep pace with the Bison! SDSU is showing this year what they can do when they don't get sent to Fargo in the early rounds.
Same things were said when Montana went on their run. "Oh Montana only wins in playoffs because of home games and they get there because of a weak conference" Every year though a couple Big Sky teams made noise in the playoffs.



Big Sky started beating montana, quick check shows since 2002 montana is 1-4 playing on the road in the playoffs, it makes a huge difference

MVFC needs to do the same and up its game and become more competitive, stop allowing ndsu to breeze through the league every year or else this run at home in postseason won't stop

[clenz]

Big Sky started beating montana, quick check shows since 2002 montana is 1-4 playing on the road in the playoffs, it makes a huge difference

MVFC needs to do the same and up its game and become more competitive, stop allowing ndsu to breeze through the league every year or else this run at home in postseason won't stop
They aren't exactly breezing.

As has been mentioned - less than half of their conference titles have been outright. I believe they actually lost the autobid to Illinois State on two of them.
Only one time have they gone through the conference undefeated.

Maybe...just maybe...someone else could beat them?

We all bitch about how easy JSU has it getting through the OVC, but no one bitches about them running through the playoffs because other conferences beat them.

Maybe other conferences need to nut the **** up and win a couple.

As has already been shown, the MVFC is more than holding it's own outside of NDSU in win %.

SDSU would make it the 4th different MVFC team in the finals in the last 4 seasons. It would also mark the second time in 4 years two teams from the MVFC played in the title game. The only two times in history one conference had both teams in the title game.

[caribbeanhen]

Rent in Fargo isn't all that cheap. Restaurants are kind of spendy too since most places have to pay well over minimum wage with our low unemployment rate.

Do they have an Eiffel Tower in Fargo ?

[Schism55]

They aren't exactly breezing.

As has been mentioned - less than half of their conference titles have been outright. I believe they actually lost the autobid to Illinois State on two of them.
Only one time have they gone through the conference undefeated.

Maybe...just maybe...someone else could beat them?

We all bitch about how easy JSU has it getting through the OVC, but no one bitches about them running through the playoffs because other conferences beat them.

Maybe other conferences need to nut the **** up and win a couple.

As has already been shown, the MVFC is more than holding it's own outside of NDSU in win %.

SDSU would make it the 4th different MVFC team in the finals in the last 4 seasons. It would also mark the second time in 4 years two teams from the MVFC played in the title game. The only two times in history one conference had both teams in the title game.
Pretty much game, set & match folks.
You ain't got to go home but you need to get the hell up outta here xpeacex

[Bison56]

Big Sky started beating montana, quick check shows since 2002 montana is 1-4 playing on the road in the playoffs, it makes a huge difference

MVFC needs to do the same and up its game and become more competitive, stop allowing ndsu to breeze through the league every year or else this run at home in postseason won't stop

Breeze through the league? Do you even follow FCS football?

[BisonBacker]

Pod where did you buy a house at? Peoples Republic of Minnesota where they tax the hell out of you?

[Twentysix]

Nope, real estate in Fargo is expensive as hell. You don't get much for under 250K.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26742&stc=1Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahshshshahahahah

That's a nice $1,000,000 3000sq ft house

Here is a house half that size in a poor part of sd county.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171212/3369f4627a33396a2993488cc5916a6f.jpg

[Twentysix]

How much is a movie in Fargo? $20-35 a ticket here without discounts. :(

Approx 4 years ago I paid $5 a movie ticket in Fargo in Tues and Thursday. I miss how affordable North Dakota was.

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[centennial]

People talking about how expensive ND is? Condos in Denver start at 250k. Half decent houses are half million. Most of my neighborhood with 16-2000 square feet houses are 400k.

[WeAreThePride]

How much is a movie in Fargo? $20-35 a ticket here without discounts. :(

Approx 4 years ago I paid $5 a movie ticket in Fargo in Tues and Thursday. I miss how affordable North Dakota was.

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Moorhead still has the Safari, tickets are 1.50 on Tuesdays I think.

[Bisonoline]

People talking about how expensive ND is? Condos in Denver start at 250k. Half decent houses are half million. Most of my neighborhood with 16-2000 square feet houses are 400k.

Oh man. I love where were are at. 35 miles north of Brainerd MN. Lakes all around, one across the highway. We have a 3,200 sq ft log sided house on 13.5 wooded acres built in 2004, has a 2,650 sq ft metal building of which half is heated. 300K.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Oh man. I love where were are at. 35 miles north of Brainerd MN. Lakes all around, one across the highway. We have a 3,200 sq ft log sided house on 13.5 wooded acres built in 2004, has a 2,650 sq ft metal building of which half is heated. 300K.


That is beautiful country down there PL!!

xnodx

[POD Knows]

Oh man. I love where were are at. 35 miles north of Brainerd MN. Lakes all around, one across the highway. We have a 3,200 sq ft log sided house on 13.5 wooded acres built in 2004, has a 2,650 sq ft metal building of which half is heated. 300K.Some home owner left 200K on the table, I have been looking up there, you get a deal on that place especially with acreage. Go to Zillow and see what 300K gets you up there. Kudos on the good house find.

[ST_Lawson]

Sorry, didn't meant to turn this into "this week in local housing costs".

[FUGameBreaker]

Sorry, didn't meant to turn this into "this week in local housing costs".


Should I rename the thread to "Your Guide to Fargo Real Estate"

[BisonBacker]

Sorry, didn't meant to turn this into "this week in local housing costs".

Oh come on give us the sq footage and cost of your house ST :D

[ST_Lawson]

Oh come on give us the sq footage and cost of your house ST :D

https://i.imgflip.com/wjrk5.jpg

3k sq ft house (3 br, 3 ba) built in the mid-60s, but updated with geothermal heating/cooling
0.8 acres of land, quiet neighborhood on a street with no through traffic, 5 minutes away from work/campus/Hanson Field
Also less than a mile from both my parents and my wife's parents (that's a good thing for us, we get along really well with both sets of my kids grandparents).

$110k about 12 years ago

Macomb may not have a ton going for it, but it's safe, the local schools are great, traffic is practically nonexistent, and housing is inexpensive.

[Lehigh'98]

https://i.imgflip.com/wjrk5.jpg

3k sq ft house (3 br, 3 ba) built in the mid-60s, but updated with geothermal heating/cooling
0.8 acres of land, quiet neighborhood on a street with no through traffic, 5 minutes away from work/campus/Hanson Field
Also less than a mile from both my parents and my wife's parents (that's a good thing for us, we get along really well with both sets of my kids grandparents).

$110k about 12 years ago

Macomb may not have a ton going for it, but it's safe, the local schools are great, traffic is practically nonexistent, and housing is inexpensive.

JFC I hate NJ.

[ST_Lawson]

JFC I hate NJ.

As you step up in price, you're mostly looking at newer/nicer or a bit more acreage. Not really much larger in home size until you get past $200k. You hit $300k and up and you're getting like 4500 sq ft, 5 bedrooms, large entryway with chandelier, walk-in closets, 13 acres of land, built in '89: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Macomb-IL/115694830_zpid/32624_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/40.47848,-90.693609,40.464458,-90.716676_rect/15_zm/


(a friend of mine grew up in that house actually...his dad was an oncologist)

[centennial]

Oh man. I love where were are at. 35 miles north of Brainerd MN. Lakes all around, one across the highway. We have a 3,200 sq ft log sided house on 13.5 wooded acres built in 2004, has a 2,650 sq ft metal building of which half is heated. 300K.

That's 6-800k in any desirable location in CO. Or about 1.5-2 million in the best Denver locations.

[Professor Chaos]

As you step up in price, you're mostly looking at newer/nicer or a bit more acreage. Not really much larger in home size until you get past $200k. You hit $300k and up and you're getting like 4500 sq ft, 5 bedrooms, large entryway with chandelier, walk-in closets, 13 acres of land, built in '89: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Macomb-IL/115694830_zpid/32624_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/40.47848,-90.693609,40.464458,-90.716676_rect/15_zm/


(a friend of mine grew up in that house actually...his dad was an oncologist)
Wow, that's a really nice house for that price. In south Fargo a house like that would be 500k easily and probably more like 600k given the lot features (mature trees are hard to come by around here).

If you can get anything for less than $100 p/sq ft around here you've got a good deal.

[ST_Lawson]

Wow, that's a really nice house for that price. In south Fargo a house like that would be 500k easily and probably more like 600k given the lot features (mature trees are hard to come by around here).

If you can get anything for less than $100 p/sq ft around here you've got a good deal.

Here's the property that goes along with that house I linked: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UXcr8XkUaZkLj52RtJ-xDJ540hoQdj2W&usp=sharing
The majority of it is wooded and nearly all those trees have been there quite a while...all pretty much 30 ft tall or higher. From end-to-end, the property is just under 1/4 mile. The end of the driveway to the edge of campus is still only about 2/3 of a mile though (as you can see if you zoom out a little and look to the right.

I have a much smaller property than that, but for fully-grown trees, we've got two fairly large oaks, a pretty big mulberry, couple of magnolias, and a few others I haven't gotten around to figuring out what they are yet. And that's after taking down some of the older fruit trees that the previous owner planted (couple of crab apples, pear, a small regular apple tree, another mulberry that was too close to the house and starting to die). We've got a few other smaller trees and a few that we've planted in the last decade too.

So, yeah...lots of old trees around these parts.

[POD Knows]

Wow, that's a really nice house for that price. In south Fargo a house like that would be 500k easily and probably more like 600k given the lot features (mature trees are hard to come by around here).

If you can get anything for less than $100 p/sq ft around here you've got a good deal.13 wooded mature acres, 4500 square feet, it would be 650K+, the house is dated on the inside but could be really cool.

[caribbeanhen]

You can see how concerned the Bison fans are about the game! I hope Sammy can give us one

[BisonBacker]

You can see how concerned the Bison fans are about the game! I hope Sammy can give us one

Quit derailing this thread. Tell us about your house xlolx

[caribbeanhen]

Quit derailing this thread. Tell us about your house xlolx

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26774&stc=1


pictures speak louder than words

[ST_Lawson]

You can see how concerned the Bison fans are about the game! I hope Sammy can give us one

This ain't the game thread. For all but four fanbases...it's offseason time, so we're going to talk about pizza, housing prices, and whatever the hell else we want to talk about ;)

[Theee Catrabbit]

Hey....we need to get back to the task at hand on how to solve the NDSU "problem" for everybody else and their lackluster conferences......a lot of drift here.....

[cx500d]

Here's the property that goes along with that house I linked: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UXcr8XkUaZkLj52RtJ-xDJ540hoQdj2W&usp=sharing
The majority of it is wooded and nearly all those trees have been there quite a while...all pretty much 30 ft tall or higher. From end-to-end, the property is just under 1/4 mile. The end of the driveway to the edge of campus is still only about 2/3 of a mile though (as you can see if you zoom out a little and look to the right.

I have a much smaller property than that, but for fully-grown trees, we've got two fairly large oaks, a pretty big mulberry, couple of magnolias, and a few others I haven't gotten around to figuring out what they are yet. And that's after taking down some of the older fruit trees that the previous owner planted (couple of crab apples, pear, a small regular apple tree, another mulberry that was too close to the house and starting to die). We've got a few other smaller trees and a few that we've planted in the last decade too.

So, yeah...lots of old trees around these parts.


Looks like flood plain

[cx500d]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26774&stc=1


pictures speak louder than words

What are the PR taxes on that? $10K?

[Bisonoline]

Some home owner left 200K on the table, I have been looking up there, you get a deal on that place especially with acreage. Go to Zillow and see what 300K gets you up there. Kudos on the good house find.

If you go 6 miles south thats where you see the prices skyrocket in Crosslake. Look around Fifty Lakes.
There was a house in Crosslake I think it was 4000 sqft just sold for around 260k. It was a foreclosure.

[caribbeanhen]

Is it Bo Pelini?

Bo? is he a legend yet? no it's not Bo.... but the Walrus is a Bison....

[caribbeanhen]

you do realize that 72% of the regular season games are conference games .. where MVFC bias plays no part ?? The bias only comes into play for the 28% of OOC regular season games.

Playoffs break down differently on that front .. but other than WIU losing at Weber St, the MVFC is doing quite well again.

Right ?

Know I didn't have the numbers, but I know only a few OOC games and the Weber St game provided a tremendous oppurtunity to use against you boys

[Redbird 4th & short]

Know I didn't have the numbers, but I know only a few OOC games and the Weber St game provided a tremendous oppurtunity to use against you boys

For the record, must acknowledge you are doing quite well on the MVFC season long pick em, as well as the playoff pick em for all games .. so kudos there !!

But as far as MVFC bias being justified bias or not:

- our 4th or 5th best MVFC team (WIU) lost by 2 on the road to the Big Sky's best team (Weber St) .. who lost to #1 seed JMU by just 3.

- our other 4th or 5th best team (USD, playing short handed) lost by 12 on the road to Southlands best team (6 seed SHSU) i round of 16

- our 3rd best team (UNI) smoked Monmouth, then lost to fellow MVFC SDSU in round of 16.

- our teams still in it .. NDSU and SDSU are both playing very well and winning by nice margins

Ergo .. it is hereby proven and decreed, the MVFC bias is real and justified !!!! xdrunkyx

[cx500d]

Bo? is he a legend yet? no it's not Bo.... but the Walrus is a Bison....


Koo Koo Koo Choo

[Thumper 76]

This ain't the game thread. This is a non game MVFC thread. This is what happens.
FYP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[caribbeanhen]

Koo Koo Koo Choo


I knew new you would get it

[BisonFan02]

I knew new you would get it

UND screwed up. They should've been the "Walruses". Kinda like the whole "We are.....Marshall" thing....but you could run around and yell "I am the Walrus!" with a vodka soaked tampon shoved up your anus toting drink coupons from El Roco.

[Twentysix]

This would cost millions of dollars in San Diego. Probably no less than 7,000,000.

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[Twentysix]

Oh man. I love where were are at. 35 miles north of Brainerd MN. Lakes all around, one across the highway. We have a 3,200 sq ft log sided house on 13.5 wooded acres built in 2004, has a 2,650 sq ft metal building of which half is heated. 300K.This would cost millions of dollars in San Diego. Probably no less than 7,000,000.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

This would cost millions of dollars in San Diego. Probably no less than 7,000,000.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalkhttp://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26779&stc=1

OK, look at this **** box, you would have to make 6 figure money to be able to afford to buy this place, who the hell is going earn that kind of money that would live in a crap hole like this. I would sleep in my car before I would ever buy this house

[centennial]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26779&stc=1

OK, look at this **** box, you would have to make 6 figure money to be able to afford to buy this place, who the hell is going earn that kind of money that would live in a crap hole like this. I would sleep in my car before I would ever buy this house
Similar **** in Denver. I can barely afford a house, and I am an engineer.

[TheKingpin28]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26779&stc=1

OK, look at this **** box, you would have to make 6 figure money to be able to afford to buy this place, who the hell is going earn that kind of money that would live in a crap hole like this. I would sleep in my car before I would ever buy this house

Does this mean you are going to go and get that RV and/or Houseboat then?

[caribbeanhen]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26779&stc=1

OK, look at this **** box, you would have to make 6 figure money to be able to afford to buy this place, who the hell is going earn that kind of money that would live in a crap hole like this. I would sleep in my car before I would ever buy this house

Is that where Fred Sanford lived? ha

[Bison56]

xlolx
Is that where Fred Sanford lived? ha

[Hammerhead]

My sister was offered a job in San Francisco and she declined the transfer since it would have meant an 80-minute commute (in normal traffic) each way between a place she could afford and the office downtown. She's in Los Angeles now and lives in a condo that is paid for and only 20 minutes from her office.

[POD Knows]

Similar **** in Denver. I can barely afford a house, and I am an engineer.I have a relative that used to work in Denver, he moved to a town 45 miles north and commuted. Real estate markets in some of these places amaze me, you will look at the average household income for an area and it will be 60K and the average home is 300K, how the hell does that work.

[caribbeanhen]

I have a relative that used to work in Denver, he moved to a town 45 miles north and commuted. Real estate markets in some of these places amaze me, you will look at the average household income for an area and it will be 60K and the average home is 300K, how the hell does that work.

skip college, scrimp and save and work your ass off

[centennial]

I have a relative that used to work in Denver, he moved to a town 45 miles north and commuted. Real estate markets in some of these places amaze me, you will look at the average household income for an area and it will be 60K and the average home is 300K, how the hell does that work.

Try 388k.

https://www.zillow.com/denver-co/home-values/

Average household income is around 63k. I am single guy with gross more than that, I just don't want a 2k mortgage a month for a 1500 sq feet house. F that.

[centennial]

Some nice land about 5 miles from where I live.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7-&-8-Greenridge-Rd-Greenwood-Village-CO-80111/2097508487_zpid/

[caribbeanhen]

For the record, must acknowledge you are doing quite well on the MVFC season long pick em, as well as the playoff pick em for all games .. so kudos there !!

But as far as MVFC bias being justified bias or not:

- our 4th or 5th best MVFC team (WIU) lost by 2 on the road to the Big Sky's best team (Weber St) .. who lost to #1 seed JMU by just 3.

- our other 4th or 5th best team (USD, playing short handed) lost by 12 on the road to Southlands best team (6 seed SHSU) i round of 16

- our 3rd best team (UNI) smoked Monmouth, then lost to fellow MVFC SDSU in round of 16.

- our teams still in it .. NDSU and SDSU are both playing very well and winning by nice margins

Ergo .. it is hereby proven and decreed, the MVFC bias is real and justified !!!! xdrunkyx

If the MVFC teams would of won those games instead of losing could you imagine AGS.... Ha, but it didn't happen so here we go, back to the top of the slide, stop and turn and go for a ride.... all winter long and til I see you again......

[UNHWildcat18]

For the record, must acknowledge you are doing quite well on the MVFC season long pick em, as well as the playoff pick em for all games .. so kudos there !!

But as far as MVFC bias being justified bias or not:

- our 4th or 5th best MVFC team (WIU) lost by 2 on the road to the Big Sky's best team (Weber St) .. who lost to #1 seed JMU by just 3.

- our other 4th or 5th best team (USD, playing short handed) lost by 12 on the road to Southlands best team (6 seed SHSU) i round of 16

- our 3rd best team (UNI) smoked Monmouth, then lost to fellow MVFC SDSU in round of 16.

- our teams still in it .. NDSU and SDSU are both playing very well and winning by nice margins

Ergo .. it is hereby proven and decreed, the MVFC bias is real and justified !!!! xdrunkyx

"UNH (4th/5th CAA) beat the southlands best team" cough. The wicked good USD we heard about all season almost didnt get by nicholls in the first round sooooo yeah. Teams can play better or worse ANY GIVEN SATURDAY

I don't disagree with how good the MVFC is this year, however I do find it comical that posters like centennial can sit there and say " I dont see the CAA as the clear second best conference" when our 1st/2nd/5th best teams take out four conference champions(regardless of how good you think each one was)

[Twentysix]

Try 388k.

https://www.zillow.com/denver-co/home-values/

Average household income is around 63k. I am single guy with gross more than that, I just don't want a 2k mortgage a month for a 1500 sq feet house. F that.Try 63k and 588k xD

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[Lehigh'98]

Try 63k and 588k xD

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Now we are talking NJ areas with good schools. Add in 12-20k in property tax.

[POD Knows]

"UNH (4th/5th CAA) beat the southlands best team" cough. The wicked good USD we heard about all season almost didnt get by nicholls in the first round sooooo yeah. Teams can play better or worse ANY GIVEN SATURDAY

I don't disagree with how good the MVFC is this year, however I do find it comical that posters like centennial can sit there and say " I dont see the CAA as the clear second best conference" when our 1st/2nd/5th best teams take out four conference champions(regardless of how good you think each one was)Who ever said USD was "wicked good", they had a good QB, nothing more, nothing less.

[Redbird 4th & short]

"UNH (4th/5th CAA) beat the southlands best team" cough. The wicked good USD we heard about all season almost didnt get by nicholls in the first round sooooo yeah. Teams can play better or worse ANY GIVEN SATURDAY

I don't disagree with how good the MVFC is this year, however I do find it comical that posters like centennial can sit there and say " I dont see the CAA as the clear second best conference" when our 1st/2nd/5th best teams take out four conference champions(regardless of how good you think each one was)

Agree CAA is clearly the 2nd best conference. Other than JMU, I thought CAA was a little weaker at top compared to prior years, but much deeper this year with Delaware, Stony Brook, and Elon stepping up. That said, usual contenders (Villinova, Richmond, and UNH) fell off a bit.

USD was not the same dominant team they were when Streveler was healthy and before their suspensions. So if you look at their slippage .. Streveler took a serious beating in week 7 against my ISUr with 15 QBHs .. he was incredible in their loss to us - we chased and hit him hard so man times. After that game, they suspended 3 defensive players (2 starters incl a captain). But in their very next game he left after just one run play again SIU .. who they rolled 42-0 with their backup QB, partly because SIU QB went down early too. From that point on, they lost 4 of 5 .. granted against some very good teams (UNI, NDSU, SDSU, SHSU). But Streveler just was not as effective the rest of season with his read option .. no longer much of threat to run, and later revealed he was throwing with swollen hand. But still won on road against Nicholls St and competed well against SHSU, also on road. Everyone deals with injuries, but just explaining my view of their slippage .. unlike most very good teams, Streveler was their only true offensive star and everything revolved around his read option plays.

[POD Knows]

Try 388k.

https://www.zillow.com/denver-co/home-values/

Average household income is around 63k. I am single guy with gross more than that, I just don't want a 2k mortgage a month for a 1500 sq feet house. F that.The median family income in Fargo is 70,371 and the average home is 217K, the numbers and ratios in some of these areas of the country are completely out of whack, at some point in time, basic economics should drive home values but that doesn't seem to be the case, I simply do not understand the housing markets in some of these parts of the country. The values should reflect individuals ability to afford and a 388K average home value is not sustainable from a macro sense with an average income of 63K, it just isn't. Do the people living in these areas have enough money to buy food, it is no wonder the savings rates are so low.

[caribbeanhen]

The median family income in Fargo is 70,371 and the average home is 217K, the numbers and ratios in some of these areas of the country are completely out of whack, at some point in time, basic economics should drive home values but that doesn't seem to be the case, I simply do not understand the housing markets in some of these parts of the country. The values should reflect individuals ability to afford and a 388K average home value is not sustainable from a macro sense with an average income of 63K, it just isn't. Do the people living in these areas have enough money to buy food, it is no wonder the savings rates are so low.

You can always look for a good deal in Brooklyn..... talk about overpriced and eye sore as well, urban blight for only a million.....
2823 W 15th St
Brooklyn, NY 11224 (Coney Island (https://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Coney_Island-Brooklyn/5076/))


7 beds
4 baths
3,600 sqft
2183 sqft lot size
Multi-Family


FOR SALE

$1,100,000 1,200,000

Calculate PaymentGet Pre-Qualified








https://thumbs.trulia-cdn.com/pictures/thumbs_6/zillowstatic/ISa5ye5p7x7b740000000000.jpgSee 7 photos

[POD Knows]

You can always look for a good deal in Brooklyn..... talk about overpriced and eye sore as well, urban blight for only a million.....
2823 W 15th St
Brooklyn, NY 11224

(Coney Island (https://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Coney_Island-Brooklyn/5076/))


7 beds
4 baths
3,600 sqft
2183 sqft lot size
Multi-Family


FOR SALE

$1,100,000 1,200,000

Calculate PaymentGet Pre-Qualified





https://thumbs.trulia-cdn.com/pictures/thumbs_6/zillowstatic/ISa5ye5p7x7b740000000000.jpgSee 7 photos

Ok, in order to afford that place at a sale price of 1.1K, with 20% down, your PITI would be about $6,000 a month, you would need a gross income of about 300K, lot of people stumbling around Coney Island making that kind of scratch, must be because they are selling houses for that.

[BNATION]

"UNH (4th/5th CAA) beat the southlands best team" cough. The wicked good USD we heard about all season almost didnt get by nicholls in the first round sooooo yeah. Teams can play better or worse ANY GIVEN SATURDAY

I don't disagree with how good the MVFC is this year, however I do find it comical that posters like centennial can sit there and say " I dont see the CAA as the clear second best conference" when our 1st/2nd/5th best teams take out four conference champions(regardless of how good you think each one was) Problem is they may of won the SLC but they were not the best team. That was a bugaboo of a game. If we played them 10 times we win 8. It was their night. ID also say the same about you guys. prob more like 9-1. UCA had a unreal amount of turnovers and played a terrible total football game.
Matchup http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/160.png&h=100&w=100http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2110.png&h=100&w=100
1st Downs 16 20
3rd down efficiency 6-17 7-15
4th down efficiency 2-2 0-0
Total Yards 216 434
Interceptions thrown 1 2
Rushing 106 73
Penalties 3-11 5-25
Turnovers 1 4
Fumbles lost 0 2

[caribbeanhen]

Ok, in order to afford that place at a sale price of 1.1K, with 20% down, your PITI would be about $6,000 a month, you would need a gross income of about 300K, lot of people stumbling around Coney Island making that kind of scratch, must be because they are selling houses for that.

the people that are buying these properties are probably either Chinese or Russian and they bring briefcases of cash to the Open House...... no time for banks or mortgages

the buyer would be buying to rent it all 7 bedrooms and the closets as well....

[POD Knows]

https://fansided.com/fandom250/

No idea what this is or how they determined this but NDSU is ranked in this thing, ahead of a bunch of famous colleges and hollywood dorks. Ranked #214, so we got that going for us, which is nice.

[centennial]

The median family income in Fargo is 70,371 and the average home is 217K, the numbers and ratios in some of these areas of the country are completely out of whack, at some point in time, basic economics should drive home values but that doesn't seem to be the case, I simply do not understand the housing markets in some of these parts of the country. The values should reflect individuals ability to afford and a 388K average home value is not sustainable from a macro sense with an average income of 63K, it just isn't. Do the people living in these areas have enough money to buy food, it is no wonder the savings rates are so low.

CO, Denver and Boulder in particular are desirable locations for the mid western, TX and CA folks. There is some real salt against people from CA. They sell houses at 750k then buy a house that is 450 for 525.

The biggest thing here that there are a lot of like minded out-doorsy fit people. Not ideal for single guys because there are about 20k more single guys than gals. Still I took a trip to TX and was shocked at the obesity. The only other place I've seen this many attractive people in one place is LA, southern CA.

It's a play hard, work hard city. And majority of people share houses unless married. It's just a fact of life here. My friends stay in 2 bedroom apartments that cost 1500 and 3 bedroom that are 2100. I am just outside of Denver and have roommates. Savings are low for people that don't make over 50k. Most lower income people are paycheck to paycheck. That's the price you pay for living in a hip place.

[jacksfan29]

CO, Denver and Boulder in particular are desirable locations for the mid western, TX and CA folks. There is some real salt against people from CA. They sell houses at 750k then buy a house that is 450 for 525.

The biggest thing here that there are a lot of like minded out-doorsy fit people. Not ideal for single guys because there are about 20k more single guys than gals. Still I took a trip to TX and was shocked at the obesity. The only other place I've seen this many attractive people in one place is LA, southern CA.

It's a play hard, work hard city. And majority of people share houses unless married. It's just a fact of life here. My friends stay in 2 bedroom apartments that cost 1500 and 3 bedroom that are 2100. I am just outside of Denver and have roommates. Savings are low for people that don't make over 50k. Most lower income people are paycheck to paycheck. That's the price you pay for living in a hip place.

The Front Range, from Castle Rock north is a mess and has been ruined by out of control growth. Now we are seeing the Front Range mess heading our way, screwing up the Western Slope. I've lived in Colorado since the early 90s, the last 9 years in Gunnison County. We are considering heading north to Montana or Idaho to get away from what Colorado has become. The same idiots who have driven up housing prices in Denver and Boulder are now coming our way, pretending to be "mountain" people. They are using their paper gains on the Front Range property to finance a 2nd home. They short term the place and it sits dark half the year. When they are around they are rude, obnoxious, they stick out like a sore thumb. I will take our Texas visitors in the summer over anyone coming in from the Front Range every day of the week.

I have no idea how anyone can live down there today. All our friends, most in the Golden area, are trying to get out. Denver was once a great city, not so much anymore.

[POD Knows]

CO, Denver and Boulder in particular are desirable locations for the mid western, TX and CA folks. There is some real salt against people from CA. They sell houses at 750k then buy a house that is 450 for 525.

The biggest thing here that there are a lot of like minded out-doorsy fit people. Not ideal for single guys because there are about 20k more single guys than gals. Still I took a trip to TX and was shocked at the obesity. The only other place I've seen this many attractive people in one place is LA, southern CA.

It's a play hard, work hard city. And majority of people share houses unless married. It's just a fact of life here. My friends stay in 2 bedroom apartments that cost 1500 and 3 bedroom that are 2100. I am just outside of Denver and have roommates. Savings are low for people that don't make over 50k. Most lower income people are paycheck to paycheck. That's the price you pay for living in a hip place.Yea, so we should structure tax plans based on this, BTW, I think you are freaking idiots for living like you do, you are part of the problem and you would think that at some point in time that you bankrupt ****s can't afford a 400k house. Maybe you should move back to ND, the company I work for would pay more than you make out there and you would live better.

[POD Knows]

The Front Range, from Castle Rock north is a mess and has been ruined by out of control growth. Now we are seeing the Front Range mess heading our way, screwing up the Western Slope. I've lived in Colorado since the early 90s, the last 9 years in Gunnison County. We are considering heading north to Montana or Idaho to get away from what Colorado has become. The same idiots who have driven up housing prices in Denver and Boulder are now coming our way, pretending to be "mountain" people. They are using their paper gains on the Front Range property to finance a 2nd home. They short term the place and it sits dark half the year. When they are around they are rude, obnoxious, they stick out like a sore thumb. I will take our Texas visitors in the summer over anyone coming in from the Front Range every day of the week.

I have no idea how anyone can live down there today. All our friends, most in the Golden area, are trying to get out. Denver was once a great city, not so much anymore.Good, basic economics will play out there, I would get the **** out it I lived there now, but if not, go ahead and take your hit.

[skinny_uncle]

Looks like this went off subject pretty fast.

[ST_Lawson]

Looks like this went off subject pretty fast.

Haven't paid attention to many MVFC threads, have you? We tend to do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ST_Lawson]

The Front Range, from Castle Rock north is a mess and has been ruined by out of control growth. Now we are seeing the Front Range mess heading our way, screwing up the Western Slope. I've lived in Colorado since the early 90s, the last 9 years in Gunnison County. We are considering heading north to Montana or Idaho to get away from what Colorado has become. The same idiots who have driven up housing prices in Denver and Boulder are now coming our way, pretending to be "mountain" people. They are using their paper gains on the Front Range property to finance a 2nd home. They short term the place and it sits dark half the year. When they are around they are rude, obnoxious, they stick out like a sore thumb. I will take our Texas visitors in the summer over anyone coming in from the Front Range every day of the week.

I hate to hear that. I've been out there quite a few times and love it. (My aunt lives in Gunnison...I think we've probably discussed that before though).

It's a beautiful area.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[caribbeanhen]

Lewes, Delaware.... can't even drive through town anymore

[Da Herd]

Yea, so we should structure tax plans based on this, BTW, I think you are freaking idiots for living like you do, you are part of the problem and you would think that at some point in time that you bankrupt ****s can't afford a 400k house. Maybe you should move back to ND, the company I work for would pay more than you make out there and you would live better.

I would disagree.

For work I relocate around the country every 4-12 months and have for the past nearly 8 years. I've spent a number of years in various parts of CA and have always been baffled at why people choose to stay where they can get so little house for their money. There are tons of reasons though - weather, sunshine, the ocean, mountains, open public land to enjoy fishing/camping/hunting/hiking/skiing/snowmobiling etc, attractive people, good food, the list goes on. So you have to live in a little less house and buy less toys, big deal. A nicer house in Fargo doesn't make up for all the other quality of life items that it doesn't have IMO. That's coming from someone who loved his 6 years in Fargo. Reasons for living in Fargo to me are: good friend network from college, mild taxes, affordable housing, resident waterfowl hunting privileges. Beyond that it is kind of depressing.

I'm happy people live together and in denser populated areas. It beats the alternative of 330 million people all with an acre and 3,000 Square foot house to themselves and no space to get away!

[POD Knows]

I would disagree.

For work I relocate around the country every 4-12 months and have for the past nearly 8 years. I've spent a number of years in various parts of CA and have always been baffled at why people choose to stay where they can get so little house for their money. There are tons of reasons though - weather, sunshine, the ocean, mountains, open public land to enjoy fishing/camping/hunting/hiking/skiing/snowmobiling etc, attractive people, good food, the list goes on. So you have to live in a little less house and buy less toys, big deal. A nicer house in Fargo doesn't make up for all the other quality of life items that it doesn't have IMO. That's coming from someone who loved his 6 years in Fargo. Reasons for living in Fargo to me are: good friend network from college, mild taxes, affordable housing, resident waterfowl hunting privileges. Beyond that it is kind of depressing.

I'm happy people live together and in denser populated areas. It beats the alternative of 330 million people all with an acre and 3,000 Square foot house to themselves and no space to get away!I get that, you got over to the lakes here and the price goes up, still doesn't explain that the market lists a property in the ****tiest neighborhood in SD for 380K where I wouldn't let my dog live, we aren't talking about ocean view stuff here, we are talking about shacks in murderers row for over 300K. Who buys these places. I would really like to know. Also, you understand that the average income in San Diego is less that Fargo but the price of the houses is about 3 times as high, is that sustainable or smart to you? People that are slaves to their houses or local expenses are morons in my world, it is no wonder that they look to the feds to bail out their useless financial existence. They aren't viable economically so somebody else better take care of them. I already posted the average income for SD and Fargo, and the average home values and home values coincide with rental costs, enjoy your sunshine and your zero net worth, I am sure the rest of use will take care of you.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I get that, you got over to the lakes here and the price goes up, still doesn't explain that the market lists a property in the ****tiest neighborhood in SD for 380K where I wouldn't let my dog live, we aren't talking about ocean view stuff here, we are talking about shacks in murderers row for over 300K. Who buys these places. I would really like to know. Also, you understand that the average income in San Diego is less that Fargo but the price of the houses is about 3 times as high, is that sustainable or smart to you? People that are slaves to their houses or local expenses are morons in my world, it is no wonder that they look to the feds to bail out their useless financial existence. They aren't viable economically so somebody else better take care of them. I already posted the average income for SD and Fargo, and the average home values and home values coincide with rental costs, enjoy your sunshine and your zero net worth, I am sure the rest of use will take care of you.


This right here 100%

xthumbsupx

xnodx

[POD Knows]

This right here 100%

xthumbsupx

xnodxI was a little harsh on that post but it is no wonder that people who make pretty decent money have no savings if they are living in these areas, how does somebody who makes 60K (average wage) afford a home that is over 500K, it does not pencil out, most of these people must be working just to pay the mortgage or the rent, they end up pay check to pay check and then have to support D's because they are afraid the R's might take the social safety net away. That picture I posted of Fred Sanford's yard with the shack that was about 350K, who would buy that place? I mean seriously, it wasn't like it was a shack on the beach someplace. Who are these people.

[Da Herd]

I was a little harsh on that post but it is no wonder that people who make pretty decent money have no savings if they are living in these areas, how does somebody who makes 60K (average wage) afford a home that is over 500K, it does not pencil out, most of these people must be working just to pay the mortgage or the rent, they end up pay check to pay check and then have to support D's because they are afraid the R's might take the social safety net away. That picture I posted of Fred Sanford's yard with the shack that was about 350K, who would buy that place? I mean seriously, it wasn't like it was a shack on the beach someplace. Who are these people.

I said I disagree in a previous post but I'm in much more agreement than I initially thought. Even with reasonable housing in ND plenty of people find ways to be slaves to their financing - it just takes a bigger house, a new truck every year or 2, boats, UTVs, etc..

[POD Knows]

I said I disagree in a previous post but I'm in much more agreement than I initially thought. Even with reasonable housing in ND plenty of people find ways to be slaves to their financing - it just takes a bigger house, a new truck every year or 2, boats, UTVs, etc..No doubt and the savings rate in Fargo, even given the advantages such as lower rent and lower property values, could be just as low as some of the high value real estate areas.

[centennial]

Yea, so we should structure tax plans based on this, BTW, I think you are freaking idiots for living like you do, you are part of the problem and you would think that at some point in time that you bankrupt ****s can't afford a 400k house. Maybe you should move back to ND, the company I work for would pay more than you make out there and you would live better.

I live way under my means, and have significant savings. As alluded to by other posters, there are significant quality of life issues in moving to a more remote place.

You get used to the lifestyle of being outside. ND makes that harder with how bad the winters are. Also I know a lot of people professionally because I've worked with multiple companies in CO. I can find a new job with borderline six figure salary within weeks. Jobs are plentiful, and the tech industry has a lot of innovation. Fargo of lucky might have a fourth of the jobs in my related field (probably more like 1/10). Also 8-9 years after I graduated from NDSU most people I know have 2-5 year olds. Some women are already divorced. I'll have nothing in common with these people anymore. Meaning I have to try to make new friends again, it's not easy (I did that 3 times in 3 years and it sucked).

[POD Knows]

I live way under my means, and have significant savings. As alluded to by other posters, there are significant quality of life issues in moving to a more remote place.

You get used to the lifestyle of being outside. ND makes that harder with how bad the winters are. Also I know a lot of people professionally because I've worked with multiple companies in CO. I can find a new job with borderline six figure salary within weeks. Jobs are plentiful, and the tech industry has a lot of innovation. Fargo of lucky might have a fourth of the jobs in my related field (probably more like 1/10). Also 8-9 years after I graduated from NDSU most people I know have 2-5 year olds. Some women are already divorced. I'll have nothing in common with these people anymore. Meaning I have to try to make new friends again, it's not easy (I did that 3 times in 3 years and it sucked).I would move to Colorado in a heartbeat, I looked at real estate in the Colorado Springs area and it seemed to be much more sane than Denver. If was going to retire someplace it might be out there.

[caribbeanhen]

I would move to Colorado in a heartbeat, I looked at real estate in the Colorado Springs area and it seemed to be much more sane than Denver. If was going to retire someplace it might be out there.

POD knows where POT grows

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I would move to Colorado in a heartbeat, I looked at real estate in the Colorado Springs area and it seemed to be much more sane than Denver. If was going to retire someplace it might be out there.


I'll probably always have my house here in MN but somewhere warm is definitely going to be on my radar for part of the year when I retire.

[frozennorth]

personally I think buying a home is generally a bad idea and many fewer people would do it if we stopped subsidizing it so heavily. Suburban and especially exurban living is isolating, expensive, and a giant endless hassle

Abolish the mortgage deduction and make suburban ****s pay their goddamn property taxes

[Houndawg]

The MVFC in the last 10 years has had North Dakota State, South Dakota State and every year there's that one random team that goes on a run and turns heads.

this year, they don't have the one random team and SDSU has a good bracket. I think the chestbeating should be isolated to NDSU and SDSU because the rest of the conference is meh

You're letting your butthurt cloud your thinking. The comment about regionalization was correct - seed the teams without respect to travel and I'm sure that the MVC reps will post good records. Lot of sour grapes this year.

[SU FAN]

personally I think buying a home is generally a bad idea and many fewer people would do it if we stopped subsidizing it so heavily. Suburban and especially exurban living is isolating, expensive, and a giant endless hassle

Abolish the mortgage deduction and make suburban ****s pay their goddamn property taxes


For those of us married you have to pay over 12k per year in mortgage interest before the interest provides any tax savings, fortunately I don't pay that much per year in mortgage interest and I feel for anyone who does

[Da Herd]

POD knows where POT grows

I LOLd.

[cx500d]

personally I think buying a home is generally a bad idea ...


If I lived in Grand Forks too I'd agree.

[clenz]

Hey FCS (other than MVFC and JMU) maybe you shouldn't be such ****ing ****.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Hey FCS (other than MVFC and JMU) maybe you shouldn't be such ****ing ****.

.....CLASS POST.....YER NOT IN MAH HEAD......DELAWARE OWNS YA...xhugx....AWK!

[SU FAN]

Hey FCS (other than MVFC and JMU) maybe you shouldn't be such ****ing ****.



MVFC has no parity, the other valley teams can't hardly ever beat the bison even when they get them at home, so you just mean other than ndsu and jmu, no other valley team has won a title in the last 20 years, the valley is no better outside of fargo than the rest of fcs

[Bisonator]

MVFC has no parity, the other valley teams can't hardly ever beat the bison even when they get them at home, so you just mean other than ndsu and jmu, no other valley team has won a title in the last 20 years, the valley is no better outside of fargo than the rest of fcs

Well the valley has had 2 other teams in the championship the last 3 years and SDSU has a shot tomorrow so I'd say you're wrong.

[MR. CHICKEN]

...COME OUT AN' PLAY CLENZ......FO' TWO THIRDS UH SEASON....YA BELITTLED YER OWN SQWAD/COACH/PROGRAM.......AN' WHEN YOUSE MADE PLAY-OFFS.....STARTED CHIRPIN'....LIKE UH MAGPIE.....AWK!

[Twentysix]

Well the valley has had 2 other teams in the championship the last 3 years and SDSU has a shot tomorrow so I'd say you're wrong.

Even if SDSU wins tomorrow and its ANOTHER MVFC vs MVFC national championship, select people will continue to spout this bs.

[caribbeanhen]

...COME OUT AN' PLAY CLENZ......FO' TWO THIRDS UH SEASON....YA BELITTLED YER OWN SQWAD/COACH/PROGRAM.......AN' WHEN YOUSE MADE PLAY-OFFS.....STARTED CHIRPIN'....LIKE UH MAGPIE.....AWK!

but Clenz is cool Mr C.....

[Thumper 76]

MVFC has no parity, the other valley teams can't hardly ever beat the bison even when they get them at home, so you just mean other than ndsu and jmu, no other valley team has won a title in the last 20 years, the valley is no better outside of fargo than the rest of fcs

So obviously when you use your exceptional powers of football prowess to look at this you will notice how many years that NDSU waltzed through the Valley undefeated, or had outright titles. Or you’ll realize you’re just being another Dudley Dip****.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SU FAN]

Only team to win title from valley in the last 20 years is ndsu.
Just to put things in perspective, when the SoCon was on top, for a 20 year span the SoCon had 4 different teams win a total of 8 titles 1988-2007 (thats not even counting 2 more won during that time period by gsu as they were still independent)
That is what real domination from a LEAGUE looks like, not just 1 team.
Ndsu is really good obviously, although jmu is current to dog until someone beats them, the rest of the valley is no diffetent than the rest of the fcs.
If that league could just gain a little bit of parity ndsu would not be in the fargo dome all the way until the title game every year.

[ST_Lawson]

Because the records of all the other MVFC teams in the playoffs just sucks, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Redbird 4th & short]

Only team to win title from valley in the last 20 years is ndsu.
Just to put things in perspective, when the SoCon was on top, for a 20 year span the SoCon had 4 different teams win a total of 8 titles 1988-2007 (thats not even counting 2 more won during that time period by gsu as they were still independent)
That is what real domination from a LEAGUE looks like, not just 1 team.
Ndsu is really good obviously, although jmu is current to dog until someone beats them, the rest of the valley is no diffetent than the rest of the fcs.
If that league could just gain a little bit of parity ndsu would not be in the fargo dome all the way until the title game every year.
I did the math dude ... excluding NDSU, our MVFC teams are 20-10 in the playoffs against non-MVFC teams. No other conference is even close during that span - pretty certain no other conference is above .500 during that time. So when you challenge other MVFC to "step up" during NDSU's dominant run, and MVFC teams have done way better than any other conference using that span .. isn't that kid of a hypocritically stupid challenge ? And isn't it completely missing the point, if the MVFC is most dominant conference in playoffs, removing NDSU's historic run from equation ?

Fact .. we have clearly stepped up better than any other conference in this period. Did the math for you .. I realize this doesn't fit with what you really want to believe ... but fact is MVFC the best conference over last 8 year, even excluding NDSU.

[Bison56]

Only team to win title from valley in the last 20 years is ndsu.
Just to put things in perspective, when the SoCon was on top, for a 20 year span the SoCon had 4 different teams win a total of 8 titles 1988-2007 (thats not even counting 2 more won during that time period by gsu as they were still independent)
That is what real domination from a LEAGUE looks like, not just 1 team.
Ndsu is really good obviously, although jmu is current to dog until someone beats them, the rest of the valley is no diffetent than the rest of the fcs.
If that league could just gain a little bit of parity ndsu would not be in the fargo dome all the way until the title game every year.

Same crying different season.

[centennial]

Only team to win title from valley in the last 20 years is ndsu.
Just to put things in perspective, when the SoCon was on top, for a 20 year span the SoCon had 4 different teams win a total of 8 titles 1988-2007 (thats not even counting 2 more won during that time period by gsu as they were still independent)
That is what real domination from a LEAGUE looks like, not just 1 team.
Ndsu is really good obviously, although jmu is current to dog until someone beats them, the rest of the valley is no diffetent than the rest of the fcs.
If that league could just gain a little bit of parity ndsu would not be in the fargo dome all the way until the title game every year.

Illinois State one, SDSU wins one, YSU wins one, CAA wins an extra one, SHSU wins one, JSU wins one (without NDSU). The MVFC still looks good to me.

[caribbeanhen]

I did the math dude ... excluding NDSU, our MVFC teams are 20-10 in the playoffs against non-MVFC teams. No other conference is even close during that span - pretty certain no other conference is above .500 during that time. So when you challenge other MVFC to "step up" during NDSU's dominant run, and MVFC teams have done way better than any other conference using that span .. isn't that kid of a hypocritically stupid challenge ? And isn't it completely missing the point, if the MVFC is most dominant conference in playoffs, removing NDSU's historic run from equation ?

Fact .. we have clearly stepped up better than any other conference in this period. Did the math for you .. I realize this doesn't fit with what you really want to believe ... but fact is MVFC the best conference over last 8 year, even excluding NDSU.

what years did you bracket the math around? Be interesting too see how CAA fared back when they were good, say 2003 to 2010

[POD Knows]

personally I think buying a home is generally a bad idea and many fewer people would do it if we stopped subsidizing it so heavily. Suburban and especially exurban living is isolating, expensive, and a giant endless hassle

Abolish the mortgage deduction and make suburban ****s pay their goddamn property taxesIf the deductions were gone, people would still continue to buy because prices would inch downward based on basic economics, I agree with getting rid of the deductions, the rest of your post is mindless drivel, do you want every body to live in vertical crackerboxes? What is the "pay the goddamn property taxes" statement supposed to mean, are your talking about the federal tax subsidy on that because if so, I agree, it should be gone, along with the mortgage deduction.

[Redbird 4th & short]

what years did you bracket the math around? Be interesting too see how CAA fared back when they were good, say 2003 to 2010
in my view, MVFC started to compete at CAA level in 2010, then took the lead in 2011 .. the Dakota States certainly helped turn the tide. So my stats citing the 20-10 playoff record (excl NDSU for non-MVFC games) went back to 2011.

And yes, CAA owned FCS 2010 & prior - but I didn't crunch that data. And Southern was definitely tougher when they had Appy St and GA Southern. So they both had their runs and playoff success. But since 2011 .. it is clearly MVFC, even with all NDSU games removed.

Massey Composite fully reflected this transition of power in 2011 .. so the argument that the ranking systems become statistically biased are undermined, or MVFC could not possibly have been topped ranked conference in 2011 with just 2 playoff teams coming off a very dominant run by CAA.

p.s. Massey converted their site, and I still haven't been able to find where they put the historical composite pages (by game week), but the Composite of all polls had MVFC #1 in 2011 and ever since.

[uni88]

what years did you bracket the math around? Be interesting too see how CAA fared back when they were good, say 2003 to 2010My guess is that the results would be similar but with the CAA on top and SoCon at #2.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Hammerhead]

For those of us married you have to pay over 12k per year in mortgage interest before the interest provides any tax savings, fortunately I don't pay that much per year in mortgage interest and I feel for anyone who does

Itemized deductions also include property taxes (which is around $2,100 for our house that is just above the median sales price) and charitable donations so it doesn't have to be $1,000/month in mortgage interest. We purchased a less-expensive home after moving back to North Dakota and 2016.

[dgtw]

How the **** did this turn into a debate over tax deductions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[No_Skill]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/23c969e44ad1b5ee7db0849535066f8b/tenor.gif?itemid=4195894

[mmiller_34]

How the **** did this turn into a debate over tax deductions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t know but SDSU should be allowed to use our turnovers as tax deductions in our taxes because they were costly.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/daduntsh.gif

[cx500d]

I don’t know but SDSU should be allowed to use our turnovers as tax deductions in our taxes because they were costly.

It certainly was a heavy loss.

[POD Knows]

How the **** did this turn into a debate over tax deductions?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSome guy from Grand Forks went on a rant about the fact that people shouldn't own homes and should live in apartments and that people that own properties with acreages lead a lonely existence and don't pay their property taxes. At least that is what I gleaned from it.

[SU FAN]

JMU just curb stomped SDSU, so there is that xlolx

[WCU-Cats!]

JMU just curb stomped SDSU, so there is that xlolx



:D

[caribbeanhen]

in my view, MVFC started to compete at CAA level in 2010, then took the lead in 2011 .. the Dakota States certainly helped turn the tide. So my stats citing the 20-10 playoff record (excl NDSU for non-MVFC games) went back to 2011.

And yes, CAA owned FCS 2010 & prior - but I didn't crunch that data. And Southern was definitely tougher when they had Appy St and GA Southern. So they both had their runs and playoff success. But since 2011 .. it is clearly MVFC, even with all NDSU games removed.

Massey Composite fully reflected this transition of power in 2011 .. so the argument that the ranking systems become statistically biased are undermined, or MVFC could not possibly have been topped ranked conference in 2011 with just 2 playoff teams coming off a very dominant run by CAA.

p.s. Massey converted their site, and I still haven't been able to find where they put the historical composite pages (by game week), but the Composite of all polls had MVFC #1 in 2011 and ever since.

So 20-10 since 2011... Does this include MVFC vs MFVC games?

[SU FAN]

Beat ndsu when you get them at home in conference play more regularly, that's all we are asking xbeerchugx

[ST_Lawson]

So 20-10 since 2011... Does this include MVFC vs MFVC games?

I wasn't the one crunching the numbers, but I think that it does not. I don't see why you'd want to include MVFC vs MVFC playoff games though...you'd just add one to each column in that case.

[Redbird 4th & short]

So 20-10 since 2011... Does this include MVFC vs MFVC games?

no, it is the playoff record of all MVFC teams, excluding all NDSU's 24-2 record, and excluding all head to head MVFC play off games.

And now that I recall NDSU record adjustment, I am now fairly certain I went back to 2010, the year EWU won it and NDSU went 2-1, losing to EWU in quarters.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Beat ndsu when you get them at home in conference play more regularly, that's all we are asking xbeerchugx

you do realize they are the best FCS program of all time, who regularly beats FBS teams, including top 40 and even top 25 FBS teams ?? Just a tad difficult to beat compared to any other team .. you think maybe ?? I wonder if Big 10 complained about Pac 10 teams not beating UCLA more often, when UCLA won championships every year. Damn those pu-sies from Pac 8 .. it is all their fault UCLA won 10 natty's !!! Sure can't blame all the ranked teams who's a-s's they kicked in playoffs too .. it's the Pac 8 teams faults .. all of them !!!



1963–64
John Wooden
30–0
15–0
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion


1964–65
John Wooden
28–2
14–0
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion


1965–66
John Wooden
18–8
10–4
2



1966–67
John Wooden
30–0
14–0
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion


1967–68
John Wooden
29–1
14–0
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion


1968–69
John Wooden
29–1
13–1
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion


1969–70
John Wooden
28–2
12–2
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion


1970–71
John Wooden
29–1
14–0
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion


1971–72
John Wooden
30–0
14–0
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion


1972–73
John Wooden
30–0
14–0
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion


1973–74
John Wooden
26–4
12–2
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Third Place


1974–75
John Wooden
28–3
12–2
1
NCAA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament ) Champion

[cx500d]

You want domination? How about 31 straight years of being national champions? Kenyon was Division 3 Men's Swimming Champions for 31 straight years from 1980 - 2010. After 2010, they were either champions or runners up too date




YEAR
CHAMPION
RUNNER-UP


2017
Emory
Kenyon


2016
Denison
Kenyon


2015
Kenyon
Denison


2014
Kenyon
Denison


2013
Kenyon
Denison


2012
Denison
Kenyon


2011
Denison
Kenyon


2010
Kenyon
Denison


2009
Kenyon
Emory


2008
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


2007
Kenyon
Denison


2006
Kenyon
Denison


2005
Kenyon
Emory


2004
Kenyon
Emory


2003
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


2002
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


2001
Kenyon
Emory


2000
Kenyon
Denison


1999
Kenyon
Denison


1998
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1997
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1996
Kenyon
Denison


1995
Kenyon
Hope


1994
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1993
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1992
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1991
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1990
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1989
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1988
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1987
Kenyon
Denison


1986
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1985
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1984
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1983
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1982
Kenyon
Williams


1981
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


1980
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


1979
Johns Hopkins
Kenyon


1978
Johns Hopkins
Monmouth


1977
Johns Hopkins
Occidental


1976
St. Lawrence
Johns Hopkins


1975
Chico State
Johns Hopkins

[TheKingpin28]

You want domination? How about 31 straight years of being national champions? Kenyon was Division 3 Men's Swimming Champions for 31 straight years from 1980 - 2010. After 2010, they were either champions or runners up too date




YEAR
CHAMPION
RUNNER-UP


2017
Emory
Kenyon


2016
Denison
Kenyon


2015
Kenyon
Denison


2014
Kenyon
Denison


2013
Kenyon
Denison


2012
Denison
Kenyon


2011
Denison
Kenyon


2010
Kenyon
Denison


2009
Kenyon
Emory


2008
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


2007
Kenyon
Denison


2006
Kenyon
Denison


2005
Kenyon
Emory


2004
Kenyon
Emory


2003
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


2002
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


2001
Kenyon
Emory


2000
Kenyon
Denison


1999
Kenyon
Denison


1998
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1997
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1996
Kenyon
Denison


1995
Kenyon
Hope


1994
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1993
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1992
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1991
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1990
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1989
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1988
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1987
Kenyon
Denison


1986
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1985
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1984
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1983
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1982
Kenyon
Williams


1981
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


1980
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


1979
Johns Hopkins
Kenyon


1978
Johns Hopkins
Monmouth


1977
Johns Hopkins
Occidental


1976
St. Lawrence
Johns Hopkins


1975
Chico State
Johns Hopkins




#EastCoastBias

[Gangtackle11]

#EastCoastBias

Nah.....Kenyon is the D3 equivalent of Youngstown State. You guys will hate & complain about them then claim them as your own when they do something. xpeacex

[TheKingpin28]

Nah.....Kenyon is the D3 equivalent of Youngstown State. You guys will hate them, but claim them when they do something. xpeacex

Nah we just hate Bo and Tressel for allowing the **** they do to occur with no repercussions. Most of us just want them to leave and the Whioux to stay in the Big Sky so we can have a true 8 game schedule where everyone plays everyone.

[Gangtackle11]

Nah we just hate Bo and Tressel for allowing the **** they do to occur with no repercussions. Most of us just want them to leave and the Whioux to stay in the Big Sky so we can have a true 8 game schedule where everyone plays everyone.

Makes sense.

[TheKingpin28]

Makes sense.

Honestly, with UND joining, and Murray St probably coming, it is going to royally screw the Dakotas. NDSU, SDSU, and UNI, will once again destroy each other; while an "eastern" team or two will get through unscathed and gifted a spot in the playoffs they may not necessarily deserve. Good news is that GFCC sucks to begin with so it will be a free win for both NDSU and SDSU.

[Longhorn]

You do realize the CAA is JMU and a group of average, and if UNH is any indication, below average teams?

Hmmm...after SDSU's loss to JMU I'd say the Jacks might fit in well with those "below average teams" in the CAA. xcoffeex

[Redbird 4th & short]

You want domination? How about 31 straight years of being national champions? Kenyon was Division 3 Men's Swimming Champions for 31 straight years from 1980 - 2010. After 2010, they were either champions or runners up too date




YEAR
CHAMPION
RUNNER-UP


2017
Emory
Kenyon


2016
Denison
Kenyon


2015
Kenyon
Denison


2014
Kenyon
Denison


2013
Kenyon
Denison


2012
Denison
Kenyon


2011
Denison
Kenyon


2010
Kenyon
Denison


2009
Kenyon
Emory


2008
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


2007
Kenyon
Denison


2006
Kenyon
Denison


2005
Kenyon
Emory


2004
Kenyon
Emory


2003
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


2002
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


2001
Kenyon
Emory


2000
Kenyon
Denison


1999
Kenyon
Denison


1998
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1997
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1996
Kenyon
Denison


1995
Kenyon
Hope


1994
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1993
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1992
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1991
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1990
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1989
Kenyon
UC San Diego


1988
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1987
Kenyon
Denison


1986
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1985
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1984
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1983
Kenyon
Claremont-M-S


1982
Kenyon
Williams


1981
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


1980
Kenyon
Johns Hopkins


1979
Johns Hopkins
Kenyon


1978
Johns Hopkins
Monmouth


1977
Johns Hopkins
Occidental


1976
St. Lawrence
Johns Hopkins


1975
Chico State
Johns Hopkins




I'll bet those pu-sies swam indoors too .... just like those home cooking indoor dependent Bison !! :D

[ST_Lawson]

Nah we just hate Bo and Tressel for allowing the **** they do to occur with no repercussions. Most of us just want them to leave and the Whioux to stay in the Big Sky so we can have a true 8 game schedule where everyone plays everyone.

Yea, I don't really care if they go and win the next 6 championships in a row...I'd still rather they:
1. stop pulling the crap they're doing...looking the other way on stuff
2. go join another conference so we can either play everyone every year, or replace them with a closer opponent that ideally, we'd be able to bus to.

I have no problem with most of their fans (at least the ones I've talked with around these parts), but I just don't like the way they run their program.

[Gangtackle11]

Hmmm...after SDSU's loss to JMU I'd say the Jacks might fit in well with those "below average teams" in the CAA. xcoffeex

Yep. SDSU & Rhody both lost by 35 to JMU. ✌️

[TheKingpin28]

Yea, I don't really care if they go and win the next 6 championships in a row...I'd still rather they:
1. stop pulling the crap they're doing...looking the other way on stuff
2. go join another conference so we can either play everyone every year, or replace them with a closer opponent that ideally, we'd be able to bus to.

I have no problem with most of their fans (at least the ones I've talked with around these parts), but I just don't like the way they run their program.

I have only met one YSU guy and he is fine by me, but the stuff their admin pulls is why we, as fans, get mad at them.

[Gangtackle11]

I have only met one YSU guy and he is fine by me, but the stuff their admin pulls is why we, as fans, get mad at them.

They should join the OVC & give JSU some competition.

[TheKingpin28]

They should join the OVC & give JSU some competition.

Anything that would eliminate the far trip out east would be something I am in favor of.

[ST_Lawson]

They should join the OVC & give JSU some competition.

They're not really in a great place location-wise though. Way far north for the OVC...a bit too far west for the CAA...way too far east for the MVFC. They're solidly in NEC territory, but put a LOT more into their football program than NEC teams do. Based on location and stuff, they really should be a MAC school, but some of the other nearby MAC schools don't want them up at their level and competing with them. The MAC teams even refuse to play them now. They're less than an hour away from both Akron and Kent State and there's 6 conference members in Ohio, but it's been 14 years since they played any MAC school.

[centennial]

They're not really in a great place location-wise though. Way far north for the OVC...a bit too far west for the CAA...way too far east for the MVFC. They're solidly in NEC territory, but put a LOT more into their football program than NEC teams do. Based on location and stuff, they really should be a MAC school, but some of the other nearby MAC schools don't want them up at their level and competing with them. The MAC teams even refuse to play them now. They're less than an hour away from both Akron and Kent State and there's 6 conference members in Ohio, but it's been 14 years since they played any MAC school.

Agree, they are a MAC school. And they would embarrass most of them. No way the MAC will let them join.