Lehigh Captures the PL Auto-Bid

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Mountain Hawks are headed back to the playoffs with a 5-6 overall record. It was an ugly win over Lafayette and now they'll get the opportunity to lose one more game.

Final PL Standings
Lehigh 5-6 5-1
Colgate 7-4 5-1
Holy Cross 4-7 3-3
Fordham 4-7 3-3
Lafayette 3-8 3-3
Georgetown 1-10 0-6

[katss07]

Embarrassing...absolutely horrible look for the PL. I get the rules, I understand. I also get that the Mountain Hawk players and coaches worked hard for this playoff appearance and PL title. But Lehigh’s name doesn’t deserve to be called tomorrow. Colgate was a much better team. Oh well, Stony Brook, CCSU or UNH will get lucky in round one.

[UNHWildcat18]

LOL UNH can host them for the inaugural "underserving first round" this year!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

LOL UNH can host them for the inaugural "underserving first round" this year!

A UNH that somehow managed to lose to a bad 4-7 Holy Cross team 51-26. The Wildcat's playoff streak should mercifully end this year.

[UNHWildcat18]

A UNH that somehow managed to lose to a bad 4-7 Holy Cross team 51-26. The Wildcat's playoff streak should mercifully end this year.

4th place caa 5-3 and we beat elon/ FBS GaSo , IM SNIFFING THE FIRST ROUND

[Thumper 76]

JFC PL should have its autobid revoked for having this **** happen twice. Send them to Montana then the Fargodome


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[van]

4th place caa 5-3 and we beat elon/ FBS GaSo , IM SNIFFING THE FIRST ROUND

shutout by Albany, keep sniffing

[RichH2]

Yeah Lehigh is in. Sucks we have a losing record. Dont really care that it is embarrassing for Lehigh and PL. Sure would love to have a better D and a winning record but we dont. But, we do have the title.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

JFC PL should have its autobid revoked for having this **** happen twice. Send them to Montana then the Fargodome


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They have to lose twice?!?! xlolx

[Thumper 76]

They have to lose twice?!?! xlolx

TBH I just want someone else to go to Fargo xlolx


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[centennial]

Any team with a losing record should have the auto bid taken if there is a team with a better record.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

4th place caa 5-3 and we beat elon/ FBS GaSo , IM SNIFFING THE FIRST ROUND

If UNH gets in AND gets a home game AND gets to play a 5-6 team then the FCS Playoffs are officially fraudulent. If UNH gets in they need to be sent packing.

[UNHWildcat18]

If UNH gets in AND gets a home game AND gets to play a 5-6 team then the FCS Playoffs are officially fraudulent. If UNH gets in they need to be sent packing.

Oh please stick a fork in it. Yeah two bad losses but wins over 8-3 Elon and FBS Georgia southern we played JMU at JMU closer than the 21-0 score plus a 5-3 CAA record with the other loss at 9-2 SBU. UNH getting in over what 7-4 Montana won’t be a god damn travesty. Besides that Colgate loss I’m sure UNH would be happy to continue its yearly stomp of the PL/NEC champ.

[Schism55]

If UNH gets in AND gets a home game AND gets to play a 5-6 team then the FCS Playoffs are officially fraudulent. If UNH gets in they need to be sent packing.
Sooo much this!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Sooo much this!

With UD's loss and UNH's loss the right thing to do is to send Lehigh to the highest ranked 1st round team regardless of location.

The committee works in funny ways. Would they give SBU a game against Lehigh instead of a first round bye to make the geography work and as a "reward"?

[aceinthehole]

With UD's loss and UNH's loss the right thing to do is to send Lehigh to the highest ranked 1st round team regardless of location.

The committee works in funny ways. Would they give SBU a game against Lehigh instead of a first round bye to make the geography work and as a "reward"?

I'm guessing Lehigh will be sent to Stony Brook and CCSU will get the trip to New Hampshire or Monmouth.

[Schism55]

I'm guessing Lehigh will be sent to Stony Brook and CCSU will get the trip to New Hampshire or Monmouth.

Monmouth is not getting in.

[POD Knows]

Yeah Lehigh is in. Sucks we have a losing record. Dont really care that it is embarrassing for Lehigh and PL. Sure would love to have a better D and a winning record but we dont. But, we do have the title.What title, "The Worst Team Ever to Make the FCS Playoffs", wear it with pride

[aceinthehole]

Monmouth is not getting in.

I don't think so either, but who knows. I never thought they deserved a Top-25 votes at any time this year, but AGS and STATS did. We will see.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What title, "The Worst Team Ever to Make the FCS Playoffs", wear it with pride

That's why Lafayette exists. Their 2013 5-6 team was likely worse. At least Lehigh was a preseason Top 25 team with a ton of talent on offense. That Lafayette team had Ross Sheuerman and nothing else....

Remember this is the second time in 5 seasons the PL rep has a 5-6 record xsmiley_wix

[aceinthehole]

That's why Lafayette exists. Their 2013 5-6 team was likely worse. At least Lehigh was a preseason Top 25 team with a ton of talent on offense. That Lafayette team had Ross Sheuerman and nothing else....

Remember this is the second time in 5 seasons the PL rep has a 5-6 record xsmiley_wix

For the millionth time, please STOP with this nonsense!!!! Congrats for winning the league and all that, but let's stop pretending that preseason ranking meant anything. It was a joke - SFU or Duquesne deserved the same ranking, but didn't get it.

[RichH2]

What title, "The Worst Team Ever to Make the FCS Playoffs", wear it with pride

No choice but to do so. Not gonna apologize for getting title.:)

[ColgateTD]

Colgate deserves some props even tho not making the playoffs. Only PL team with an overall winning record. And we tied for the PL Crown. At least there's something for the Red Raider fans to crow about....:)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

For the millionth time, please STOP with this nonsense!!!! Congrats for winning the league and all that, but let's stop pretending that preseason ranking meant anything. It was a joke - SFU or Duquesne deserved the same ranking, but didn't get it.

Lehigh was the preseason favorite to win the league and did. Lafayette was probably picked 5th or 6th. Lehigh does have a really good offense. You can't dispute that.

The Top 25 ranking shows this season was a disappointment! This team should have been better given what they returned! That's all that ranking means. It did not live up to preseason expectations! Why that offends you is beyond me. It's the reason for Lehigh fan's frustrations despite winning the league.

[Lehigh'98]

None of this is Lehigh’s fault. Yes they are one of worst playoff teams ever. If you are looking for blame, point the finger at Lafayette, Gtown, Bucknell & Holy Cross (also the refs at Colgate).

[Gate83]

Oh please stick a fork in it. Yeah two bad losses but wins over 8-3 Elon and FBS Georgia southern we played JMU at JMU closer than the 21-0 score plus a 5-3 CAA record with the other loss at 9-2 SBU. UNH getting in over what 7-4 Montana won’t be a god damn travesty. Besides that Colgate loss I’m sure UNH would be happy to continue its yearly stomp of the PL/NEC champ.

We'd be happy to come back & stomp you again. Your fans treated us great & Libby's was fun pre and post. Annoying we don't get the autobid, though sitting on the couch on Thanksgiving Saturday knowing we're PL champs with pretty much the whole team returning next year ain't bad either!

[Go...gate]

Congratulations to the Engineers - you earned the Patriot League title fair and square. Now it is up to you guys in the playoffs. I'm pulling for you.

[RichH2]

Congratulations to the Engineers - you earned the Patriot League title fair and square. Now it is up to you guys in the playoffs. I'm pulling for you.

Thanks Go.

[th0m]

Oh please stick a fork in it. Yeah two bad losses but wins over 8-3 Elon and FBS Georgia southern we played JMU at JMU closer than the 21-0 score plus a 5-3 CAA record with the other loss at 9-2 SBU. UNH getting in over what 7-4 Montana won’t be a god damn travesty. Besides that Colgate loss I’m sure UNH would be happy to continue its yearly stomp of the PL/NEC champ.

i mean, maybe you played us at 20 zip instead of a clean 3td shutout. What do you mean you played us closer? We out gained you by 150 yds, lead by two touches at the half, dominated time of possession. What am i missing?

[UNHWildcat18]

i mean, maybe you played us at 20 zip instead of a clean 3td shutout. What do you mean you played us closer? We out gained you by 150 yds, lead by two touches at the half, dominated time of possession. What am i missing?

We fumbled at your 16 yard line, you guys had a pick six, we missed a wide open WR in the end zone on 4th down inside the 15, and you guys intercepted another pass in the endzone. You had one nice drive against us. Game could have easily been 17-14 JMU. Just saying we didn’t get blown out by the number 1 team like SHSU blows out its conference mates.

[UNHWildcat18]

We'd be happy to come back & stomp you again. Your fans treated us great & Libby's was fun pre and post. Annoying we don't get the autobid, though sitting on the couch on Thanksgiving Saturday knowing we're PL champs with pretty much the whole team returning next year ain't bad either!
27-20 isn’t no stomp, but on a real note I wish you guys were in.

[LU808]

Embarrassing...absolutely horrible look for the PL. I get the rules, I understand. I also get that the Mountain Hawk players and coaches worked hard for this playoff appearance and PL title. But Lehigh’s name doesn’t deserve to be called tomorrow. Colgate was a much better team. Oh well, Stony Brook, CCSU or UNH will get lucky in round one.



Deal with it!

We beat who we needed to beat, including Colgate on their home turf!

[LU808]

No choice but to do so. Not gonna apologize for getting title.:)


AND we are PL Champs.....AND we in the FCS playoffs - deal with it!

[LU808]

Yes - very good season....expect you to be the preseason pick in PL next year.

[CFBfan]

geez, yet another oppty for LU to embarass itself and the league

[CFBfan]

Yeah Lehigh is in. Sucks we have a losing record. Dont really care that it is embarrassing for Lehigh and PL. Sure would love to have a better D and a winning record but we dont. But, we do have the title.

that's pathetic

[TennBison]

The extra funny part is that the conference has only 6 teams and 4-5 of them completely blow.

[CFBfan]

Congratulations to the Engineers - you earned the Patriot League title fair and square. Now it is up to you guys in the playoffs. I'm pulling for you.
they will be an embarrassment....again

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

they will be an embarrassment....again

Outside of last year Lehigh has represented themselves and the league very well in the playoffs. But, yes this is not good for league. Bottom line, it's a league problem more so than a Lehigh problem. The Mountain Hawks are 1/6th of it....

[TennBison]

Yeah Lehigh is in. Sucks we have a losing record. Dont really care that it is embarrassing for Lehigh and PL. Sure would love to have a better D and a winning record but we dont. But, we do have the title.
Pinky clap for you and your team.

[Schism55]

The extra funny part is that the conference has only 6 teams and 4-5 of them completely blow.
Freaking lol man!
Harsh, but fair xdrunkyx

[Pard4Life]

#fakechampions

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

#fakechampions

It's actually a #LafayetteChampionship thanks to the Leopards "perfecting" the xsmhx 5-6 league title in 1994 and 2013. Lehigh just figured they would also hoodwink the league into one too. Hopefully it never happens again....

[RichH2]

#fakechampions

Better than a fake Pard football team. Now at 2 Ws out of last 9 games. Epic ineptitude year after year.

[TennBison]

We'd be happy to come back & stomp you again. Your fans treated us great & Libby's was fun pre and post. Annoying we don't get the autobid, though sitting on the couch on Thanksgiving Saturday knowing we're PL champs with pretty much the whole team returning next year ain't bad either!
You had a losing record this year and sucked, so the same players with the same coach are going to give you the same results, so to correct you, yes, it is bad.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You had a losing record this year and sucked, so the same players with the same coach are going to give you the same results, so to correct you, yes, it is bad.

Colgate was PL Co-Champs with a 7-4 record....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Better than a fake Pard football team. Now at 2 Ws out of last 9 games. Epic ineptitude year after year.

8 straight losing seasons! Holy crap is that bad!

I know what the overall series record is but at this point for anyone not in a nursing home Lehigh has kicked Lafayette's butt more often then not. There's been clear dominance over Lafayette in the 1-AA/PL era.

[TennBison]

Colgate was PL Co-Champs with a 7-4 record....
SO ??????

[UNHWildcat18]

Colgate was PL Co-Champs with a 7-4 record....
Someone didn’t attend the Derek Zoolander center for kids who can’t read good and want to learn how to do other stuff good too

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

SO ??????

I don't get why you said this to a Colgate, Gate83, fan who simply said he was going to enjoy Colgate's PL Title on the couch....

"You had a losing record this year and sucked, so the same players with the same coach are going to give you the same results, so to correct you, yes, it is bad."

[TennBison]

Colgate was PL Co-Champs with a 7-4 record....
Still does not change the fact that your team had a fluffy OOC and lost all of those games. The only wins you had all year were only against your own league (one of the worst in all of college football). After winning the PL autobid, if I was a player, I would have walked off the field with my head down. Your team really only has the privilege of being the best loser. Give me a break, champions with a losing record, the school should decline an NCAA offer to go to the playoffs and let some other school with a better shot than you ( but still no shot in hell ) at winning a championship.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Someone didn’t attend the Derek Zoolander center for kids who can’t read good and want to learn how to do other stuff good too

Huh?

[TennBison]

I don't get why you said this to a Colgate, Gate83, fan who simply said he was going to enjoy Colgate's PL Title on the couch....

"You had a losing record this year and sucked, so the same players with the same coach are going to give you the same results, so to correct you, yes, it is bad."
Because it has nothing to do with the crap PL team that will be going to the playoffs.

[RichH2]

Gee the weather vanes are having a field day. And they call us elitist :). PL terrible this year and even in good years will rarely challenge for a national title. For them it means we shouldnt even try. We are limited by PL rules, a holdover of our Ivy Lite birth, but the goal at most every PL school is to succeed. So we will try. Dont really give a crap about what you elitist asshats think about it.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Still does not change the fact that your team had a fluffy OOC and lost all of those games. The only wins you had all year were only against your own league (one of the worst in all of college football). After winning the PL autobid, if I was a player, I would have walked off the field with my head down. Your team really only has the privilege of being the best loser. Give me a break, champions with a losing record, the school should decline an NCAA offer to go to the playoffs and let some other school with a better shot than you ( but still no shot in hell ) at winning a championship.

Beating Lafayette is never a reason to hang your head if you're a Lehigh player/fan. There's no doubt that the players have to still be disappointed how this season turned out. But there's still a silver lining.....

I don't think you realize how frustrating of a season this has been. Definitely the definition of glass half-full/half-empty. I have to think another embarrassing loss in the playoffs will not go over well with the LU faithful. Lehigh has nowhere to hide next Saturday.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Gee the weather vanes are having a field day. And they call us elitist :). PL terrible this year and even in good years will rarely challenge for a national title. For them it means we shouldnt even try. We are limited by PL rules, a holdover of our Ivy Lite birth, but the goal at most every PL school is to succeed. So we will try. Dont really give a crap about what you elitist asshats think about it.

When scholarships were added what % of PL fans thought a 5-6 team that went 0-5 OOC would win and represent the league in the FCS Playoffs? This SHOULD NOT happen. The league was suppose improve on national a level. That's why they were added. You, me and everyone said else on here said that. It has not happened and that is a major problem! I for one do not believe the PL should participate in the playoffs if they're not serious about competing. Allow another team from another conference that is.

The PL and its programs brought this mess on themselves.

[TennBison]

When scholarships were added what % of PL fans thought a 5-6 team that went 0-5 OOC would win and represent the league in the FCS Playoffs? This SHOULD NOT happen. The league was suppose improve on national a level. That's why they were added. You, me and everyone said else on here said that. It has not happened and that is a major problem! I for one do not believe the PL should participate in the playoffs if they're not serious about competing. Allow another team from another conference that is.

The PL and its programs brought this mess on themselves.
Actually, they brought this mess on the NCAA, who cares about the PL and how they feel about it.

[TennBison]

Beating Lafayette is never a reason to hang your head if you're a Lehigh player/fan. There's no doubt that the players have to still be disappointed how this season turned out. But there's still a silver lining.....

I don't think you realize how frustrating of a season this has been. Definitely the definition of glass half-full/half-empty. I have to think another embarrassing loss in the playoffs will not go over well with the LU faithful. Lehigh has nowhere to hide next Saturday.
Not talking about hanging your head because you beat a arch rival. I am talking about accepting a conference championship as if you actually did something great. When in fact they should be shaking their heads in disbelief. Autobids going to teams with a losing record should never be allowed.

[RichH2]

When scholarships were added what % of PL fans thought a 5-6 team that went 0-5 OOC would win and represent the league in the FCS Playoffs? This SHOULD NOT happen. The league was suppose improve on national a level. That's why they were added. You, me and everyone said else on here said that. It has not happened and that is a major problem! I for one do not believe the PL should participate in the playoffs if they're not serious about competing. Allow another team from another conference that is.

The PL and its programs brought this mess on themselves.

No doubt about that owl. Learning schollie recruiting turned out to be a. 3 yr process. Underclass players at LU Gate and Cross are substantially deeper and better than 1st 3 yrs. PL rules are truly an asinine holdover that need to be changed. Even given that my point is we can still strive to be successful. I will not agree that we should not be allowed to try.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Not talking about hanging your head because you beat a arch rival. I am talking about accepting a conference championship as if you actually did something great. When in fact they should be shaking their heads in disbelief. Autobids going to teams with a losing record should never be allowed.

I'm with you on this. I don't think they should be either. But I have the exact some feeling about sub .500 teams in basketball winning their postseason tournament and getting an auto-bid. Winning and success, i.e. winning record, should be a major prerequisite....

[PAllen]

What title, "The Worst Team Ever to Make the FCS Playoffs", wear it with pride

I'm pretty sure Lafayette still holds that title.

[TennBison]

I'm with you on this. I don't think they should be either. But I have the exact some feeling about sub .500 teams in basketball winning their postseason tournament and getting an auto-bid. Winning and success, i.e. winning record, should be a major prerequisite....
Don't even get me started on conference tournaments in college basketball. It is nothing but another way to make money. Why can't a conference use the head to head records during the regular season and then just say there is the conference champion.

[UNHWildcat18]

Huh?

Oooops I meant to attach it to tenn bison about how he thought the post was about Lehigh returning players when it was in fact about Colgate

[Go...gate]

Still does not change the fact that your team had a fluffy OOC and lost all of those games. The only wins you had all year were only against your own league (one of the worst in all of college football). After winning the PL autobid, if I was a player, I would have walked off the field with my head down. Your team really only has the privilege of being the best loser. Give me a break, champions with a losing record, the school should decline an NCAA offer to go to the playoffs and let some other school with a better shot than you ( but still no shot in hell ) at winning a championship.

Wow. What a classy guy and what a great reflection upon your school.

- - - Updated - - -


Still does not change the fact that your team had a fluffy OOC and lost all of those games. The only wins you had all year were only against your own league (one of the worst in all of college football). After winning the PL autobid, if I was a player, I would have walked off the field with my head down. Your team really only has the privilege of being the best loser. Give me a break, champions with a losing record, the school should decline an NCAA offer to go to the playoffs and let some other school with a better shot than you ( but still no shot in hell ) at winning a championship.

Clearly, you were NOT a player.

[TennBison]

Wow. What a classy guy and what a great reflection upon your school.

- - - Updated - - -



Clearly, you were NOT a player.
Why, because I am stating the obvious.
Actually I did play college ball, I played for Tennessee back in the mid 80's.

[Bisonator]

What a joke. Why give auto bids to these pathetic conferences?

[Bisonwinagn]

What a joke. Why give auto bids to these pathetic conferences?

Why the **** not??

[TheValleyRaider]

What a joke. Why give auto bids to these pathetic conferences?

I know, why aren't there more spots left for Illinois State or New Hampshire?

So unfair

[Go...gate]

Why, because I am stating the obvious.
Actually I did play college ball, I played for Tennessee back in the mid 80's.

Why would anyone who played the game say, "if I was a player, I would have walked off the field with my head down. Your team really only has the privilege of being the best loser".The kids at Lehigh and in the rest of the Patriot League put on the pads and play their backsides off every week no less than NDSU, Tennessee or anyone else. They don't deserve your scorn.

[Bisonator]

Why the **** not??
So we don't have 5-6 teams making the ****ing PO's that's why. If there is a team in there worthy of an at large so be it.

[TennBison]

Why would anyone who played the game say, "if I was a player, I would have walked off the field with my head down. Your team really only has the privilege of being the best loser".The kids at Lehigh and in the rest of the Patriot League put on the pads and play their backsides off every week no less than NDSU, Tennessee or anyone else. They don't deserve your scorn.
Why not, or would you rather I go and hand out participation trophies to every player on a team that does not make the playoffs. I am not mocking any individual player on any team. This is like a life lesson, if you do not deserve what is being offered, you let a more deserving person have it. So if you don't like my view on it, and it is for sure a broken process then go pound sand.

[TennBison]

Why would anyone who played the game say, "if I was a player, I would have walked off the field with my head down. Your team really only has the privilege of being the best loser".The kids at Lehigh and in the rest of the Patriot League put on the pads and play their backsides off every week no less than NDSU, Tennessee or anyone else. They don't deserve your scorn
.
if I was a player, I would have walked off the field with my head down- Damn straight I would have, if I knew that the only reason I was going to the playoffs was because of a technicality and that a more deserving team was getting left out that did better than i did, for sure.
Your team really only has the privilege of being the best loser- what else would you call a team that finished in the bottom half of the FCS not only record wise, but rankings as well
The kids at Lehigh and in the rest of the Patriot League put on the pads and play their backsides off every week no less than NDSU, Tennessee or anyone else- I never questioned the desire of any of the players

[Pards Rule]

I'm guessing Lehigh will be sent to Stony Brook and CCSU will get the trip to New Hampshire or Monmouth.


Agreed, trip to Long Island

[RichH2]

Owl
I want to thank you for the PL previews this season Researched and excellently written. I hope you can do it again next year. Also hope PL gets better next year :)

[Pards Rule]

I'm with you on this. I don't think they should be either. But I have the exact some feeling about sub .500 teams in basketball winning their postseason tournament and getting an auto-bid. Winning and success, i.e. winning record, should be a major prerequisite....

Yes agreed. Same for Lafayette in 2013. I didnt think we were going to do well at all and rued the trip to Durham, NH

[Pards Rule]

Thought the Pards did well for an overmatched squad today. Capitalized when they needed to but those persistent offensive issues bit us in tail in 2nd half. Credit Lehigh with a solid 2nd half return. Stony Brook awaits I guess.

[ngineer]

We'd be happy to come back & stomp you again. Your fans treated us great & Libby's was fun pre and post. Annoying we don't get the autobid, though sitting on the couch on Thanksgiving Saturday knowing we're PL champs with pretty much the whole team returning next year ain't bad either!

Just remember, we said the same thing last year. Nothing guaranteed.

[ngineer]

Gee the weather vanes are having a field day. And they call us elitist :). PL terrible this year and even in good years will rarely challenge for a national title. For them it means we shouldnt even try. We are limited by PL rules, a holdover of our Ivy Lite birth, but the goal at most every PL school is to succeed. So we will try. Dont really give a crap about what you elitist asshats think about it.

+1

[ngineer]

Why, because I am stating the obvious.
Actually I did play college ball, I played for Tennessee back in the mid 80's.

Then act like it. I don't care if a kid is playing at DIII Moravian or a "name" FBS school. He still a football player putting a lot of hours training for the love of playing the game. He does not deserve to be ridiculed because you don't like the way he won. Those kids in brown today, refused to quit when all sorts of crap was being thrown at them. They fought on, and came away with a win in one of the most emotional football games played in this nation.

[Go...gate]

Gee the weather vanes are having a field day. And they call us elitist :). PL terrible this year and even in good years will rarely challenge for a national title. For them it means we shouldnt even try. We are limited by PL rules, a holdover of our Ivy Lite birth, but the goal at most every PL school is to succeed. So we will try. Dont really give a crap about what you elitist asshats think about it.

+2

Good luck to the Engineers!

[Gate83]

So... late getting back to the party, who invited the NDSU trolls? Bison boys, celebrate your team which is very good. We will enjoy our own small rivalries, root for an upset every now & then against the state schools, and hope when we do have that upset we're treated as well as the UNH fans treated us a few years back.

Meanwhile, I'll still be on the couch next Saturday. Good luck to Lehigh, our somewhat undeserved co-champs (but no reason to fight about the refs from a month ago) who will field a team of kids who will succeed in life based on their education & hopefully won't stoop to worrying about why their team was or was not invited to play in a second tier playoff. I had a great season, good luck to the seniors & looking forward to the tailgates next fall!

[Sader87]

The FCS play-offs may be the most ovah-rated thing since Justin Beiber.

Seriously, hardly anybody cares.

[Bisonoline]

The FCS play-offs may be the most ovah-rated thing since Justin Beiber.

Seriously, hardly anybody cares.

Its always over rated when you arent playing in them.

[Thumper 76]

Colgate deserves some props even tho not making the playoffs. Only PL team with an overall winning record. And we tied for the PL Crown. At least there's something for the Red Raider fans to crow about....:)
Maybe they should just maybe look into having a change in the tiebreak. Like if you have a losing record and the other team doesn’t vs FCS competition the other team gets to go so we don’t make a mockery of the entire subdivision.

AND we are PL Champs.....AND we in the FCS playoffs - deal with it!
You’re a garbage team and don’t deserve to be able to claim a playoff spot if you can’t have a winning record. Deal with it.

Beating Lafayette is never a reason to hang your head if you're a Lehigh player/fan. There's no doubt that the players have to still be disappointed how this season turned out. But there's still a silver lining.....

I don't think you realize how frustrating of a season this has been. Definitely the definition of glass half-full/half-empty. I have to think another embarrassing loss in the playoffs will not go over well with the LU faithful. Lehigh has nowhere to hide next Saturday.
You should just imagine how frustrated these bubble teams who actually won games and such are going to be when they have to stay home so a team with a losing record can have a slot....

I know, why aren't there more spots left for Illinois State or New Hampshire?

So unfair
I mean, at least those teams are worth a ****.



I personally am going to have a very, very hard time ranking any team from the PL every again after 2/3 years of these fiascos. My goodness, what an absolutely unacceptable joke.



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[Go...gate]

Beating Lafayette is never a reason to hang your head if you're a Lehigh player/fan. There's no doubt that the players have to still be disappointed how this season turned out. But there's still a silver lining.....

I don't think you realize how frustrating of a season this has been. Definitely the definition of glass half-full/half-empty. I have to think another embarrassing loss in the playoffs will not go over well with the LU faithful. Lehigh has nowhere to hide next Saturday.

I actually believe that after all they have endured this season, Lehigh has a big game in them and will play very well next week.

[Gangtackle11]

I actually believe that after all they have endured this season, Lehigh has a big game in them and will play very well next week.

Wishful Patriot League thinking. ✌️

[Go...gate]

Maybe they should just maybe look into having a change in the tiebreak. Like if you have a losing record and the other team doesn’t vs FCS competition the other team gets to go so we don’t make a mockery of the entire subdivision.

You’re a garbage team and don’t deserve to be able to claim a playoff spot if you can’t have a winning record. Deal with it.

You should just imagine how frustrated these bubble teams who actually won games and such are going to be when they have to stay home so a team with a losing record can have a slot....

I mean, at least those teams are worth a ****.



I personally am going to have a very, very hard time ranking any team from the PL every again after 2/3 years of these fiascos. My goodness, what an absolutely unacceptable joke.

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Check your record books - the conference had a quarterfinalist in 2015.

- - - Updated - - -


Wishful Patriot League thinking. ✌️

I'm hoping Lehigh proves you wrong.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This thread is a national treasure

[Go...gate]

This thread is a national treasure

Say WHAT???

[TennBison]

Then act like it. I don't care if a kid is playing at DIII Moravian or a "name" FBS school. He still a football player putting a lot of hours training for the love of playing the game. He does not deserve to be ridiculed because you don't like the way he won. Those kids in brown today, refused to quit when all sorts of crap was being thrown at them. They fought on, and came away with a win in one of the most emotional football games played in this nation.
I never ridiculed the kids playing the game, the comment is geared towards the teams and the PL. I Never questioned the heart and desire of any of the players. And spare me all the rah rah crap about them fighting through adversity and emotion, I have been there and done that. It only is effective on those who are players, parents and fans of a particular team.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Considering that (according to most on here) Lehigh is trash and don't deserve to be here, who Will Lehigh Face in the FCS Playoffs?


https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2017/11/what-to-look-for-on-sunday-for-fcs.html

[Lehigh'98]

Maybe they should just maybe look into having a change in the tiebreak. Like if you have a losing record and the other team doesn’t vs FCS competition the other team gets to go so we don’t make a mockery of the entire subdivision.

You’re a garbage team and don’t deserve to be able to claim a playoff spot if you can’t have a winning record. Deal with it.

You should just imagine how frustrated these bubble teams who actually won games and such are going to be when they have to stay home so a team with a losing record can have a slot....

I mean, at least those teams are worth a ****.



I personally am going to have a very, very hard time ranking any team from the PL every again after 2/3 years of these fiascos. My goodness, what an absolutely unacceptable joke.



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This is the risk of have auto bids. For better or worse. Cry more though.

[RichH2]

Check your record books - the conference had a quarterfinalist in 2015.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm hoping Lehigh proves you wrong.

Naah dont bother those trolls dont read. Kinda enjoying their apoplexy. For good or ill, Lehigh is in. Yeah good chance we will lose. Not really the issue today. Prevailing opinion among the weather vane kids is we should not even have the chance to play. PL with its arcane rules does restrict PL teams quite a bit. It is what it is. PL does strive for success even so. Dont really care what the asshats think about it.

[CHIP72]

The FCS play-offs may be the most ovah-rated thing since Justin Bieber.

Seriously, hardly anybody cares.


Its always over rated when you aren't playing in them.

Almost none of the games before the semifinals are available on any sort of nationally-available, non-streaming TV network. The network that does carry the games (ESPN) only carries them when there aren't FBS/DI-A games available for broadcast, and even when there aren't, ESPN would still usually prefer to televise early season college basketball games (which themselves are somewhat limited during the FCS/DI-AA quarterfinals and semifinals because most colleges are holding fall semester finals and don't want their student athletes playing in too many games) instead of DI-AA playoff games.

As an additional frame of reference, Villanova won the DI-AA football national title in 2009, and the Division I basketball national title in 2016. Which of those titles was more prominent or important in most people's eyes (those eyes specifically including Villanova fans, Villanova University, Philadelphia area sports fans, and college sports fans in general)? The college basketball national title was more important by probably a factor of 100 to all of the aforementioned groups, despite the fact football in general is more popular than basketball in most parts of the U.S., including in the Villanova area.

I personally wouldn't say the DI-AA playoffs are overrated, but I do agree with Sader87 that in the general sports scheme of things, very few people care about them, particularly in areas where if people travel 100 miles, they run into one or more NFL and/or DI-A college football teams.

[Neighbor2]

The team with the best record within the Patriot League gets the auto-bid. That is Lehigh. This Lehigh team does not appear to be as strong, nor consistent, as prior Lehigh squads who entered the playoffs. I also believe the coaching staff has under-performed all season, particularly on defense. The paid adults within the Lehigh athletic program are in need of change. Now.

Somehow, the entire league was weak in 2017. Thus, our representative has a lousy won-loss record overall. It happens.

I congratulate the Lehigh PLAYERS for winning the league championship. The players obviously continued working hard all season. They succeeded despite poor coaching performance, and playing in a league that doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. Interest in Patriot League football has rapidly declined. Sad to watch.

All my best to the Lehigh players going forward. You earned another game under less than ideal conditions. Enjoy it, and thanks!

[TheValleyRaider]

Maybe they should just maybe look into having a change in the tiebreak. Like if you have a losing record and the other team doesn’t vs FCS competition the other team gets to go so we don’t make a mockery of the entire subdivision.

You’re a garbage team and don’t deserve to be able to claim a playoff spot if you can’t have a winning record. Deal with it.

You should just imagine how frustrated these bubble teams who actually won games and such are going to be when they have to stay home so a team with a losing record can have a slot....

I personally am going to have a very, very hard time ranking any team from the PL every again after 2/3 years of these fiascos. My goodness, what an absolutely unacceptable joke.

It is incredible how insecure some of these XDSU fans are. "A mockery of the entire subdivision." Give me a break. Would a SDSU title somehow mean less because Lehigh lost to Stony Brook in the first round?

I suppose it is nice to know that somehow, even as we prep for the offseason and you prepare for the playoffs, that somehow we're still in your heads xcoolx


I mean, at least those teams are worth a ****.

Illinois State went 6-5, real title contender right there. New Hampshire, meanwhile, got rocked by our 5th place team (and lost to a PL team 2 years ago). A Patriot League team was the last FCS team to beat JMU. Get that weak stuff out of here xrolleyesx

[dgtw]

They won their conference. I have no problem with them in the playoffs.

As for basketball, I do hate it when a crappy team gets hot and wins a tournament and a team that played well all year stays home due to one bad game. Conferences (especially one bid Leagues) should limit how many get in the conference tournament.


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[ngineer]

Wishful Patriot League thinking. ✌️

Always. If you don't believe you can pull out a win, even as a heavy underdog, you should not be on the field.

[ngineer]

I never ridiculed the kids playing the game, the comment is geared towards the teams and the PL. I Never questioned the heart and desire of any of the players. And spare me all the rah rah crap about them fighting through adversity and emotion, I have been there and done that. It only is effective on those who are players, parents and fans of a particular team.

You said the Lehigh players should be walking off the field with their "heads hung". That is crap. When you beat your ancient rival with a conference championship on the line. Your head will be held high. Even the Leopards in defeat had nothing to be ashamed of.

[RichH2]

Always. If you don't believe you can pull out a win, even as a heavy underdog, you should not be on the field.

Yup. No better way of saying it.

[TennBison]

You said the Lehigh players should be walking off the field with their "heads hung". That is crap. When you beat your ancient rival with a conference championship on the line. Your head will be held high. Even the Leopards in defeat had nothing to be ashamed of.
I made it perfectly clear that the comment is geared towards the team as a whole, you even decided to click the reply with quote button that proves you read it. So what part of my explaining that it has nothing to do with any one player do you fail to understand? And by the way, it isn't crap, it is called a life lesson, if you don't deserve to go then you don't go. The PL and any team that earns a playoff spot with a losing record, or better yet, any team that does not have a winning record should not be jumping around acting like they just conquered the world. They managed to slid in, only making it into the playoffs as one of the most undeserving teams ever, who would never be picked as a at large EVER no matter what year since the playoffs started, only making it because of a flaw in the process. PL league should have its autobid pulled after this season.

[POD Knows]

I'm pretty sure Lafayette still holds that title.Yea, I didn't do much research with my post, I just kept seeing Lehigh getting curb stomped week after week and just assumed they had to be the worst,

[POD Knows]

Why the **** not??Because you aren't getting the top 24 teams in the country as a result of the AB's but I get why this is done, it does keep the inter-conference play interesting in some of the conferences. It gives teams something to shoot for.

[TennBison]

They won their conference. I have no problem with them in the playoffs.

As for basketball, I do hate it when a crappy team gets hot and wins a tournament and a team that played well all year stays home due to one bad game. Conferences (especially one bid Leagues) should limit how many get in the conference tournament.


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You fail to understand that in college basketball, not winning your conference tournament, does not keep a good team out that has a shot. How many times do you see North Carolina, Duke, Villanova, Syracuse, Gonzaga or any others like them, not win their conference tournament and still get in, and in many cases they are still a high seed. The problem, is that some team that failed to perform all through the regular season, has a losing record, can make it and ends up taking up space.

[POD Knows]

The team with the best record within the Patriot League gets the auto-bid. That is Lehigh. This Lehigh team does not appear to be as strong, nor consistent, as prior Lehigh squads who entered the playoffs. I also believe the coaching staff has under-performed all season, particularly on defense. The paid adults within the Lehigh athletic program are in need of change. Now.

Somehow, the entire league was weak in 2017. Thus, our representative has a lousy won-loss record overall. It happens.

I congratulate the Lehigh PLAYERS for winning the league championship. The players obviously continued working hard all season. They succeeded despite poor coaching performance, and playing in a league that doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. Interest in Patriot League football has rapidly declined. Sad to watch.

All my best to the Lehigh players going forward. You earned another game under less than ideal conditions. Enjoy it, and thanks!Colgate is the best team in that conference but it is what it is.

[dgtw]

Colgate is the best team in that conference but it is what it is.

Yet they lost at home to Lehigh.


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[LehighU11]

I made it perfectly clear that the comment is geared towards the team as a whole, you even decided to click the reply with quote button that proves you read it. So what part of my explaining that it has nothing to do with any one player do you fail to understand? And by the way, it isn't crap, it is called a life lesson, if you don't deserve to go then you don't go. The PL and any team that earns a playoff spot with a losing record, or better yet, any team that does not have a winning record should not be jumping around acting like they just conquered the world. They managed to slid in, only making it into the playoffs as one of the most undeserving teams ever, who would never be picked as a at large EVER no matter what year since the playoffs started, only making it because of a flaw in the process. PL league should have its autobid pulled after this season.

The playoffs are pointless if you deem the champions of the conferences composing this subdivision to be unworthy of being included in a 24 team field. Lehigh went 5-1 in the Patriot League, beating the other 5-1 team head-to-head. Consequently, they are PL champions whether you like it or not. That's a fact.

Say that because of 2 fluke seasons in 5 years, you revoke the autobid from the PL, the same league that handed James Madison its last FCS loss and sent a team to the quarterfinals just 2 years ago. The same league whose 4th place team pummeled bubble team New Hampshire this year. What stops you from revoking the autobid from the PFL, since they don't offer scholarships and never make it to the quarterfinals? Or how about the NEC, whose champion lost to the 5th place team in the PL, had just 6 D1 wins, and lost by 50 to non-playoff team Youngstown St.? Or how about the Big South, because they're too small of a conference? Or the OVC, because they consistently flop in the playoffs? Soon enough, your asinine standards leave you with a CAA-MVFC challenge tournament.

This is a 24 team tournament. For teams that can't finish at least 4th in their conference, sorry you had your chance. The tournament provides conference champions with the opportunity to compete against other champions--and the very best runners up in power conferences--for a shot at a national title. If you want the top 8 or 9 teams from 2 or 3 conferences competing against each other after the regular season, go watch the FBS bowl season.

[dgtw]

You fail to understand that in college basketball, not winning your conference tournament, does not keep a good team out that has a shot. How many times do you see North Carolina, Duke, Villanova, Syracuse, Gonzaga or any others like them, not win their conference tournament and still get in, and in many cases they are still a high seed. The problem, is that some team that failed to perform all through the regular season, has a losing record, can make it and ends up taking up space.

I was referring more to one bid leagues where a where the regular season champ has no chance to get an at large.


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[POD Knows]

Yet they lost at home to Lehigh.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYea, I know, we really wouldn't be having this discussion if that game had turned out different.

[TennBison]

Yet they lost at home to Lehigh.


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And Lehigh lost every OOC game. Which for that conference is the best indication of how good a team will do in the playoffs. And the funny part, is that Lehighs OOC schedule was weak.

[Neighbor2]

Yeah, that's why I included the term 'record.' Colgate has a nice team this year, and maybe would have proved a better opponent for their first round match-up. We'll never know.

I continue to be amused how many NDSU fans feel a need to jump all over the Patriot League, and particularly Lehigh. Maybe you can shed light on this.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Like I said in another post, Lehigh has no where to hide now. If they go out and get embarrassed next weekend then further criticism will be warranted. The only way the narrative changes if Lehigh and PL changes it.

[CHIP72]

You fail to understand that in college basketball, not winning your conference tournament, does not keep a good team out that has a shot. How many times do you see North Carolina, Duke, Villanova, Syracuse, Gonzaga or any others like them, not win their conference tournament and still get in, and in many cases they are still a high seed. The problem, is that some team that failed to perform all through the regular season, has a losing record, can make it and ends up taking up space.

Uh, there are many one bid league teams in the NCAA Tournament that are inferior to at-large teams not selected for the tournament and THAT has never been considered a major problem.

IMO, as long as a tournament allows every league champion to participate (assuming their league wants to participate) and every team that has a legitimate chance to win the tournament to participate, regardless if they won their league or not, I think the tournament, regardless what the sport or tournament size is, is fair. The DI-AA football playoffs meet those criteria IMO. I'd rather have a tournament that allows a few too many teams in than a tournament that doesn't allow enough teams in.

[POD Knows]

Yeah, that's why I included the term 'record.' Colgate has a nice team this year, and maybe would have proved a better opponent for their first round match-up. We'll never know.

I continue to be amused how many NDSU fans feel a need to jump all over the Patriot League, and particularly Lehigh. Maybe you can shed light on this.Well, we would pick on the Pioneer League more if that would make you feel better but picking on those guys would just be mean.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh at SBU

[CHIP72]

Lehigh at SBU

A 2 PM ET start.

Once Delaware lost yesterday (and Lehigh won), I thought it was very likely the Mountain Hawks would be heading to Long Island.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

A 2 PM ET start.

Once Delaware lost yesterday (and Lehigh won), I thought it was very likely the Mountain Hawks would be heading to Long Island.

Make sense! SBU is rewarded with an easy first round opponent but then gets screwed in round 2.

Are all the start times at 2 PM again? Thus the need for lights?

[ColgateTD]

Good luck to the Mountain Hawks at SBU. Represent the PL well.

[Pard4Life]

It's actually a #LafayetteChampionship thanks to the Leopards "perfecting" the xsmhx 5-6 league title in 1994 and 2013. Lehigh just figured they would also hoodwink the league into one too. Hopefully it never happens again....

No, ours was legitimate. It's a fake championship for Lehigh because they were handed the Colgate game.

[Pard4Life]

Stony Brook 56, Lehigh 24

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No, ours was legitimate. It's a fake championship for Lehigh because they were handed the Colgate game.

8 straight losing seasons! Lafayette and Georgetown are to the PL what Rutgers and Temple were to the Big East in 1990's. An embarrassment....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Stony Brook 56, Lehigh 24

About right! SBU is an extremely physical team. They will eat up the Lehigh front 7.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

All the playoff start times once again after 2 PM. I was interested to see if the later times would be continued.

Lehigh and Holy Cross are two PL programs who now appear incapable of hosting playoff games. I really struggle with the playoffs given the circumstances. If Lehigh went 11-0 they'd be on the road xrolleyesx

[RichH2]

About right! SBU is an extremely physical team. They will eat up the Lehigh front 7.
Well you might be right owl but doubt SB will stop us all that often. But, seems most have decided that SB rout a foregone conclusion. Geez, might as well save the wear and tear and concede :)

[iBOsbu]

Stony Brook 56, Lehigh 24

Thats not gonna happen. Our strength is defense. Not putting up 50+ on the scoreboard. We are clear favorite though on the paper. Hopefully we forget about who is favorite and play with urgency. I expect a score line around 31-17.

Someone may be start a thread for the game?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Well you might be right owl but doubt SB will stop us all that often. But, seems most have decided that SB rout a foregone conclusion. Geez, might as well save the wear and tear and concede :)

Rich this is brutal matchup. I was praying for Delaware but Villanova (Ugh 'Nova!!) had to expose them first. I watched some of SBU's game at USF (damn good AAC team) and the Seawolves stood up physically in 90 degree Florida heat. They're tough and will come straight at Lehigh. They play a lot like NDSU. There's no Maysonet at RB but their OL is still nasty and the backs they do have are good. Although they might injured. They beat Wagner recently by 28 a team that Lehigh lost to by 17. They're a Top 10 team and easily one of the best teams playing this weekend.

Like I said, Lehigh has nowhere to hide now. They do themselves and the league a favor or further entrench the struggles....

[CHIP72]

Thats not gonna happen. Our strength is defense. Not putting up 50+ on the scoreboard. We are clear favorite though on the paper. Hopefully we forget about who is favorite and play with urgency. I expect a score line around 31-17.

Someone may be start a thread for the game?

In a Darth Vader voice - "You don't know the ineptitude of the Lehigh defense."

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

In a Darth Vader voice - "You don't know the ineptitude of the Lehigh defense."

After 11 games Lehigh's D gave up on average 39.36 ppg (118th in FCS). 232 ypg on the ground....

[RichH2]

Rich this is brutal matchup. I was praying for Delaware but Villanova (Ugh 'Nova!!) had to expose them first. I watched some of SBU's game at USF (damn good AAC team) and the Seawolves stood up physically in 90 degree Florida heat. They're tough and will come straight at Lehigh. They play a lot like NDSU. There's no Maysonet at RB but their OL is still nasty and the backs they do have are good. Although they might injured. They beat Wagner recently by 28 a team that Lehigh lost to by 17. They're a Top 10 team and easily one of the best teams playing this weekend.

Like I said, Lehigh has nowhere to hide now. They do themselves and the league a favor or further entrench the struggles....

Perhaps so owl but dont see them scoring that high or us that low. Unlikely to get W but game wont be a rout.

[Lehigh'98]

Perhaps so owl but dont see them scoring that high or us that low. Unlikely to get W but game wont be a rout.

Most likely it will be a rout.

[Thumper 76]

The playoffs are pointless if you deem the champions of the conferences composing this subdivision to be unworthy of being included in a 24 team field. Lehigh went 5-1 in the Patriot League, beating the other 5-1 team head-to-head. Consequently, they are PL champions whether you like it or not. That's a fact.

Say that because of 2 fluke seasons in 5 years, you revoke the autobid from the PL, the same league that handed James Madison its last FCS loss and sent a team to the quarterfinals just 2 years ago. The same league whose 4th place team pummeled bubble team New Hampshire this year. What stops you from revoking the autobid from the PFL, since they don't offer scholarships and never make it to the quarterfinals? Or how about the NEC, whose champion lost to the 5th place team in the PL, had just 6 D1 wins, and lost by 50 to non-playoff team Youngstown St.? Or how about the Big South, because they're too small of a conference? Or the OVC, because they consistently flop in the playoffs? Soon enough, your asinine standards leave you with a CAA-MVFC challenge tournament.

This is a 24 team tournament. For teams that can't finish at least 4th in their conference, sorry you had your chance. The tournament provides conference champions with the opportunity to compete against other champions--and the very best runners up in power conferences--for a shot at national title. If you want the top 8 or 9 teams from 2 or 3 conferences competing against each other after the regular season, go watch the FBS bowl season.
So do you honestly believe that a conference who has sent an AQ with a losing record to the playoffs TWICE doesn’t deserve to be mocked and ridiculed? Do you honestly think that those teams truly deserve the opportunity to compete with the playoff teams that had to earn it? Do you really think a 5-6 team should be in over a EWU or McNeese?

Well, we would pick on the Pioneer League more if that would make you feel better but picking on those guys would just be mean.
At least they have the decency to have a team with a winning record make it...

Perhaps so owl but dont see them scoring that high or us that low. Unlikely to get W but game wont be a rout.

So the team who couldn’t manage a winning record isn’t going to get routed......right.


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[Lorne_Malvo]

Any team with a losing record should have the auto bid taken if there is a team with a better record.

Yes please.

[CFBfan]

What a joke. Why give auto bids to these pathetic conferences?

That pathetic conference beat 2 CAA teams on their home field 2 years ago

[LehighU11]

So do you honestly believe that a conference who has sent an AQ with a losing record to the playoffs TWICE doesn’t deserve to be mocked and ridiculed? Do you honestly think that those teams truly deserve the opportunity to compete with the playoff teams that had to earn it? Do you really think a 5-6 team should be in over a EWU or McNeese?

At least they have the decency to have a team with a winning record make it...



Yes, a conference champion who went 5-1 in PL play should be in the tournament. Lehigh, or any other PL AQ, is just as deserving of a bid as 9-2 San Diego, who was throttled by 5-6 UC Davis and lost to Princeton by two scores. San Diego had 0 D1 wins OOC, just like Lehigh.

McNeese St. was slaughtered by Central Arkansas and lost to Nicholls, who was destroyed by SHSU. McNeese built its 9-2 resume with wins against a losing D2 team, Alcorn St., and the 7 teams below it in the Southland who combined for just 2 wins OOC, 1 against TX Southern and 1 against a 2-9 D2 program Lamar UTPB.

If the Patriot League had a 9 game conference slate, our champion would have a similar overall record to the AQ from the Southland and PFL in most years: 9-2 or 8-3. Does pulling once-PL member Davidson back into the fold, plus adding Marist and another noncompetitive program then make the PL any more "worthy" of a trip to the playoffs? Of course not. Folks like you claim that teams like Houston Baptist, Lamar, Incarnate Word, Marist, Davidson, and Georgetown are not good victories. How can you then reasonably claim that a team is more deserving of a playoff spot, when their resume consists of wins solely over those teams of poor quality and blowout losses to anyone remotely respectable? You can't. Enjoy the playoffs where the champions get an AQ. Otherwise, go watch the FBS bowl season.

[RichH2]

It is frustrating to root for PL teams. Particularly this year when the conference is so weak. Guess the whys are not particularly important to this thread. The current rule is conference title holders go. NCAA could change the rule but until they do PL champ is in. Sure is embarrassing to have a champ with a 5-6 record. Mocking a weak league. Fair game I suppose. Does not follow that we should be banned from the playoffs. Sure we will likely lose as will half of the other 1st round teams. Playoffs are not just for the elite CAA MVFC et al. While it may not seem like much to the mockers winning our conference and getting a chance to play in the tournament are goals for PL teams. Really dont care about the mockery. We will try our best this year and every year.

[ngineer]

I made it perfectly clear that the comment is geared towards the team as a whole, you even decided to click the reply with quote button that proves you read it. So what part of my explaining that it has nothing to do with any one player do you fail to understand? And by the way, it isn't crap, it is called a life lesson, if you don't deserve to go then you don't go. The PL and any team that earns a playoff spot with a losing record, or better yet, any team that does not have a winning record should not be jumping around acting like they just conquered the world. They managed to slid in, only making it into the playoffs as one of the most undeserving teams ever, who would never be picked as a at large EVER no matter what year since the playoffs started, only making it because of a flaw in the process. PL league should have its autobid pulled after this season.

We deserve to be in the playoffs as the Patriot League champion. We meet all the qualifications established by the NCAA. Go whine to them.

[ngineer]

Like I said in another post, Lehigh has no where to hide now. If they go out and get embarrassed next weekend then further criticism will be warranted. The only way the narrative changes if Lehigh and PL changes it.

Who gives a crap? We won the league title and earned the playoff spot. Them's the rules. Don't like it, change it. Until then people can go drink their whines and pout.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Who gives a crap? We won the league title and earned the playoff spot. Them's the rules. Don't like it, change it. Until then people can go drink their whines and pout.

I understand that. But Lehigh and PL deserve to be made fun off at this point imo. It was a horrible year and the league is clearly inferior on a national level. I think it's embarrassing to be sending a 5-6 team for the 2nd time in 5 years. In the history of the 1-AA/FCS playoffs that's a distinction only the PL owns! Lehigh is ranked #76 by the playoff committee. 36 sports worse than the next closest team in the playoffs.

What's great is Lehigh can gets to play a really good SBU team. The results will speak for themselves!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I made it perfectly clear that the comment is geared towards the team as a whole, you even decided to click the reply with quote button that proves you read it. So what part of my explaining that it has nothing to do with any one player do you fail to understand? And by the way, it isn't crap, it is called a life lesson, if you don't deserve to go then you don't go. The PL and any team that earns a playoff spot with a losing record, or better yet, any team that does not have a winning record should not be jumping around acting like they just conquered the world. They managed to slid in, only making it into the playoffs as one of the most undeserving teams ever, who would never be picked as a at large EVER no matter what year since the playoffs started, only making it because of a flaw in the process. PL league should have its autobid pulled after this season.

LakesBison apparently has a new handle.

[ngineer]

I understand that. But Lehigh and PL deserve to be made fun off at this point imo. It was a horrible year and the league is clearly inferior on a national level. I think it's embarrassing to be sending a 5-6 team for the 2nd time in 5 years. In the history of the 1-AA/FCS playoffs that's a distinction only the PL owns! Lehigh is ranked #76 by the playoff committee. 36 sports worse than the next closest team in the playoffs.

What's great is Lehigh can gets to play a really good SBU team. The results will speak for themselves!

The problem is caused by the size of our league. With only 7 teams, were are forced to play 5 OOC games and this aberration will occur from time to time. It is what it is.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The jig is up guys. Lehigh obviously has no business being on the field with Stony Brook. If we keep it within 50 it would be a major surprise.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The jig is up guys. Lehigh obviously has no business being on the field with Stony Brook. If we keep it within 50 it would be a major surprise.

Well they went to UNH last year as the favorites and lost by 43. Hopefully this isn't that bad but one could make a pretty compelling case that SBU is better than UNH last year and Lehigh is worse than their 2016 version.

Saturday figures to be really interesting! Lehigh will definitely be under the microscope! Relish it!

[ngineer]

Well they went to UNH last year as the favorites and lost by 43. Hopefully this isn't that bad but one could make a pretty compelling case that SBU is better than UNH last year and Lehigh is worse than their 2016 version.

Saturday figures to be really interesting! Lehigh will definitely be under the microscope! Relish it!

Yes, we got beat badly last year at UNH, but remember we were missing our leading tackler and captain on defense at MLB, our starting QB and offensive leader was ill with mono and Mayes was under the weather, too. Likely, UNH wins that game even if we were healthy, but no question in my mind the absence of the two stars had a significant impact on the team, both in terms of physical ability and mental focus.

I think we can give SBU a game of it. They had some close calls this year, so a few breaks and who knows. Go Lehigh!

[Go...gate]

The team with the best record within the Patriot League gets the auto-bid. That is Lehigh. This Lehigh team does not appear to be as strong, nor consistent, as prior Lehigh squads who entered the playoffs. I also believe the coaching staff has under-performed all season, particularly on defense. The paid adults within the Lehigh athletic program are in need of change. Now.

Somehow, the entire league was weak in 2017. Thus, our representative has a lousy won-loss record overall. It happens.

I congratulate the Lehigh PLAYERS for winning the league championship. The players obviously continued working hard all season. They succeeded despite poor coaching performance, and playing in a league that doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. Interest in Patriot League football has rapidly declined. Sad to watch.

All my best to the Lehigh players going forward. You earned another game under less than ideal conditions. Enjoy it, and thanks!

This. To the haters, get over it.

- - - Updated - - -


Well they went to UNH last year as the favorites and lost by 43. Hopefully this isn't that bad but one could make a pretty compelling case that SBU is better than UNH last year and Lehigh is worse than their 2016 version.

Saturday figures to be really interesting! Lehigh will definitely be under the microscope! Relish it!

Exactly. Go get 'em, Engineers!

[NY Crusader 2010]

What a joke. Why give auto bids to these pathetic conferences?

Because the bids are handed out by the same organization that allowed the Summit League conference champion to participate in the NCAA basketball tournament despite a losing regular season record just eight months ago.

[Bisonoline]

Because the bids are handed out by the same organization that allowed the Summit League conference champion to participate in the NCAA basketball tournament despite a losing regular season record just eight months ago.

They shouldnt have been there either.

[RichH2]

Because the bids are handed out by the same organization that allowed the Summit League conference champion to participate in the NCAA basketball tournament despite a losing regular season record just eight months ago.
Pointing out actual facts to these guys is pointless. It takes the edge off their mockery.

[Bisonoline]

Pointing out actual facts to these guys is pointless. It takes the edge off their mockery.

This isnt really new news.

[NY Crusader 2010]

They shouldnt have been there either.

I know. The dance would have been so much more exciting with another 19-14 team from a P5 with a conference record of like 5-13. And who probably played their entire months of November and December at home.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I know. The dance would have been so much more exciting with another 19-14 team from a P5 with a conference record of like 5-13. And who probably played their entire months of November and December at home.

There should not be teams with losing records in the NCAA Tournament. If a conference holds to a postseason tournament and a sub. 500 team wins they then should forfeit their bid. The Ivy League has the right idea. Allow only the legitimately good/decent teams to compete. I'm pretty sure other low-majors have adopted this idea too. Not a novel idea.

I totally get the outrage over this but complaining on a message board isn't going to do anything. If Lehigh gets blown out on Saturday they'll have every right to make fun of Lehigh and the PL. Hell, I'll be making fun of Lehigh and the PL should that happen xlolx

[NY Crusader 2010]

Well they went to UNH last year as the favorites and lost by 43. Hopefully this isn't that bad but one could make a pretty compelling case that SBU is better than UNH last year and Lehigh is worse than their 2016 version.



Both are true. Will take a Herculean effort from the Engineer defense, a MINIMUM of 42 points scored and a turnover margin of +2 or better IMO.

[NY Crusader 2010]

There should not be teams with losing records in the NCAA Tournament. If a conference wants to gamble with a postseason tournament and team with a sub. 500 record wins they should forfeit their bid. The Ivy League has the right idea.

I totally get the outrage over this but complaining on message board isn't going to do anything. If Lehigh gets blown out on Saturday they'll have every right to make fun of Lehigh and the PL. Hell, I'll be making fun of Lehigh and the PL should that happen xlolx

I get having a smaller postseason basketball tournament to prevent 2016 Holy Cross from happening. But in football, all berths are determined by regular season finish. Lehigh went 5-1 in the PL and won the league fair and square. As a fan of the PL, I admit it IS embarrassing to see our rep underwater at 5-6 -- which is why I was rooting for Lafayette on Saturday. But, in all likelihood, we are going to see more PL champs with under 7 wins in the future due to everyone adding FBS games. Not only does this guarantee that 6-home game seasons are a thing of the past, these games tend to replace Ivies and NEC teams on the schedule. Games we had 50/50 shots on average to win. So, net, the PL OOC record will be lower each year.

Good luck on Saturday -- rooting for you guys @ Stony Brook. Lehigh has almost always represented the league very well in the postseason, with the exception of last year's dumpster fire in Durham.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I get having a smaller postseason basketball tournament to prevent 2016 Holy Cross from happening. But in football, all berths are determined by regular season finish. Lehigh went 5-1 in the PL and won the league fair and square. As a fan of the PL, I admit it IS embarrassing to see our rep underwater at 5-6 -- which is why I was rooting for Lafayette on Saturday. But, in all likelihood, we are going to see more PL champs with under 7 wins in the future due to everyone adding FBS games. Not only does this guarantee that 6-home game seasons are a thing of the past, these games tend to replace Ivies and NEC teams on the schedule. Games we had 50/50 shots on average to win. So, net, the PL OOC record will be lower each year.

Good luck on Saturday -- rooting for you guys @ Stony Brook. Lehigh has almost always represented the league very well in the postseason, with the exception of last year's dumpster fire in Durham.

That's embarrassing that you feel the PL are scheduling games they can't win in the OOC. What's even worse that I agree with you!

There's still not going to be that many FBS games across the board. I'm definitely going to laugh at HC when they get destroyed in their 2 FBS game next year. Straight cash homie!! Lehigh is going to get embarrassed by Navy. That will be an epic disaster! I've been laughing at Lehigh since that one was schedule. That could end up in the 72-20 range. Navy is relentless!!

All it simply means the league is not getting any better! A PL champ should not average 6-7 wins a season. If they do they'll remain nationally irrelevant and the running joke of FCS. Like I said, In another thread these next two years or so will be very interesting for this league in football.

How depressing is it that Lehigh and Holy Cross can get 11-0 and are incapable of hosting a home playoff game?

[NY Crusader 2010]

There's still not going to be that many FBS games across the board. I'm definitely going to laugh at HC when they get destroyed in their 2 FBS game next year. Straight cash homie!! Lehigh is going to get embarrassed by Navy. That will be an epic disaster! I've been laughing at Lehigh since that one was schedule. That could end up in the 72-20 range. Navy is relentless!!

It's 2019 when we have two FBS games with Navy and Syracuse. We play BC next year, just in the nick of time to catch them when they're a top-50 team again. The scary thing about playing Navy is that there's really no way to prevent them from running up a really embarrassing score. They're 4th string QB and 7th and 8th slot-backs will execute the exact same way in the fourth quarter that the first stringers did early. Most teams switch to running the ball 100% of the time when leading big in a blowout -- but Navy runs the ball every play as it is.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It's 2019 when we have two FBS games with Navy and Syracuse. We play BC next year, just in the nick of time to catch them when they're a top-50 team again. The scary thing about playing Navy is that there's really no way to prevent them from running up a really embarrassing score. They're 4th string QB and 7th and 8th slot-backs will execute the exact same way in the fourth quarter that the first stringers did early. Most teams switch to running the ball 100% of the time when leading big in a blowout -- but Navy runs the ball every play as it is.

Navy is going to be stacked next year! This year's team is loaded with underclassman! They'll be really good next year! Lehigh is going to get absolutely murdered on a HOT, Humid miserable August day! Given the recent history of LU's D and their inability to stop the run I really think the score will rival the '93 Idaho 77-14 debacle. Like you said, Navy does not take the foot off the pedal!

Holy Cross has 3 built in, almost certainly embarrassing, losses in their future but the money is paying for the facility upgrades! Maybe lights too?

Fordham's OOC next year is tough too. Well tough for a 4-7 PL team that's losing a ton of big time talent. They'll likely start 1-4 or so.

Great times in the PL!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It would be utterly humiliating for Stony Brook to lose to a team with a 5-6 record.

[aceinthehole]

Fordham's OOC next year is tough too. Well tough for a 4-7 PL team that's losing a ton of big time talent. They'll likely start 1-4 or so.

Great times in the PL!!

Next year Fordham has Charlotte, Richmond, Stony Brook, CCSU and Bryant. That is about as "winnable" FBS game you could imagine. Then you have 2 CAA teams and 2 NEC teams. That's too tough?

I get you are 100% against PL scheduling FBS team. I disagree, but I understand your point and it is very valid about certain opponents (like Navy). That being said, who do you expect the PL to schedule?

If you can't schedule FBS teams, more than 1 CAA team is too much, most usually don't want to "slum down" with NEC teams - so what's left? Do you proposed a Ivy/Pioneer non-conf only?

Honestly, I'm not sure what you expect when these teams schedule years in advance - and intersection games are too expensive in the FCS environment.

[dgtw]

I was hoping Lehigh would get the autobid because it would piss people off. Seeing people pissed off over something that really doesn’t harm them makes me happy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Next year Fordham has Charlotte, Richmond, Stony Brook, CCSU and Bryant. That is about as "winnable" FBS game you could imagine. Then you have 2 CAA teams and 2 NEC teams. That's too tough?

I get you are 100% against PL scheduling FBS team. I disagree, but I understand your point and it is very valid about certain opponents (like Navy). That being said, who do you expect the PL to schedule?

If you can't schedule FBS teams, more than 1 CAA team is too much, most usually don't want to "slum down" with NEC teams - so what's left? Do you proposed a Ivy/Pioneer non-conf only?

Honestly, I'm not sure what you expect when these teams schedule years in advance - and intersection games are too expensive in the FCS environment.

I could very easily see Fordham losing every single game. I think legitimately they could be Vegas underdogs in every one of those games. Definitely Charlotte, Richmond and SBU. Bryant beat them this year and if CCSU returns a decent amount they would likely be favorites. Fordham will be coming off a 4-7 team and losing a ton of key players. They also have a coach that I think will return but even if he does his seat is REAL hot. Tons of questions surround Ram football heading into 2018. The Joe Moorhead/Chase Edmonds/Scholarship Advantage party is officially over.

I like the Ivy League games. I think the best of the Ivies are big time FCS teams. They just live in their own world. Schedule the Ivies, CAA and SoCon, Big South etc. I've always supported scheduling the BETTER NEC teams! There's plenty of scheduling options with an AD that's willing to work. Honestly, I liked Lehigh's OOC this year outside of Wagner (who has struggled). Replace Wagner with Duquesne (who I've lobbied to schedule for years), CCSU (history), St. Francis and I'm perfectly happy.

Bottom line, you don't get credit for scheduling tough games and losing them. You get credit for scheduling tough games and winning them!

[aceinthehole]

I could very easily see Fordham losing every single game. I think legitimately they could be Vegas underdogs in every one of those games. Definitely Charlotte, Richmond and SBU. Bryant beat them this year and if CCSU returns a decent amount they would likely be favorites. Fordham will be coming off a 4-7 team and losing a ton of key players. They also have a coach that I think will return but if even if he does his ass is REAL hot. Tons of questions surround Ram football heading into 2018. The Joe Moorhead/Chase Edmonds party is officially over.

I like the Ivy League games. I think the best of the Ivies are big time FCS teams. They just live in their own world. Schedule the Ivies, CAA and SoCon, Big South etc. I've always supported scheduling the BETTER NEC teams! There's plenty of scheduling options with an AD that's willing to work. Honestly, I liked Lehigh's OOC this year outside of Wagner (who has struggled). Replace Wagner with Duquesne (who I've lobbied to schedule for years), CCSU (history), St. Francis and I'm perfectly happy.

Bottom line, you don't get credit for scheduling tough games and losing them. You get credit for scheduling tough games and winning them!

OK, but you never know who is going to be "good" years in advance.

Just look at the NEC as an example. Last season CCSU was 2-9, this year they are 8-3. Who really knows how good they will be in any given year. - I don't. In the 8 seasons that the NEC had the AQ, it has been acquired by 7 different teams! Basically every team in the NEC has gone to the playoffs except Bryant.

2017: CCSU
2016: Saint Francis
2015: Duquesne
2014: Sacred Heart
2013: Sacred Heart
2012: Wagner
2011: Albany
2010: Robert Morris

Same applies to the Ivy and others. We have to look no further than Columbia to see that fortunes can change very quickly. Maine and Towson are great examples of an up-and-down team.

I guess my point is you never know what you are going to get in a single year. Not to mention, there are only so many games available, and PL teams don't pick the opponents they want. Scheduling is much tougher than you are suggesting..

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

OK, but you never know who is going to be "good" years in advance.

Just look at the NEC as an example. Last season CCSU was 2-9, this year they are 8-3. Who really knows how good they will be in any given year. - I don't. In the 8 seasons that the NEC had the AQ, it has been acquired by 7 different teams! Basically every team in the NEC has gone to the playoffs except Bryant.

2017: CCSU
2016: Saint Francis
2015: Duquesne
2014: Sacred Heart
2013: Sacred Heart
2012: Wagner
2011: Albany
2010: Robert Morris

Same applies to the Ivy and others. We have to look no further than Columbia to see that fortunes can change very quickly. Maine and Towson are great examples of an up-and-down team.

I guess my point is you never know what you are going to get in a single year. Not to mention, there are only so many games available, and PL teams don't pick the opponents they want. Scheduling is much tougher than you are suggesting..

It feels like a crapshoot but there are some percentages. I think people gave Bags a legit shot to get Columbia rolling. But yeah you never really know. Lehigh has traditionally done a good job keeping Yale and Princeton (almost a yearly rival). Penn has come on lately and they're generally good too.

Everyone has different ways of going by it. Colgate dropped Bryant because they openly said they wanted to seek better opponents. So it seems Colgate feels they are above the NEC and won't schedule you guys. I think they're the only PL school that feels that way.

Lehigh has had a steady diet of UNH and 'Nova from the CAA and a h-h with JMU. Those are all really good games. UNH is obviously the safest bet in FCS....lol

[bonarae]

All it simply means the league is not getting any better! A PL champ should not average 6-7 wins a season. If they do they'll remain nationally irrelevant and the running joke of FCS. Like I said, In another thread these next two years or so will be very interesting for this league in football.

How come the PL is the running joke of the FCS? I believe you can make a similar case for the PFL and the Ivies as well. HBCUs maybe, but then their championship bowl is worthy of more potential exposure...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

How come the PL is the running joke of the FCS? I believe you can make a similar case for the PFL and the Ivies as well. HBCUs maybe, but then their championship bowl is worthy of more potential exposure...

Meaning more of what happened this year is in the future. Even NYHC thinks the league will be losing more OOC games in the future which will result in poorer records. If the best team in the league is only winning 6-7 games the odds are there's some real ugly records further down the standings.

The running joke of FCS often changes but the PL, aka "Patsy League" definitely is one of the leading characters.

[Go...gate]

How come the PL is the running joke of the FCS? I believe you can make a similar case for the PFL and the Ivies as well. HBCUs maybe, but then their championship bowl is worthy of more potential exposure...

The PL is not the running joke of the FCS. It is still going through a transition period with scholarships and also has some members which take football more seriously than others. While the former issue will probably work itself out over time, it is hard to know what to do about the latter.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How come the PL is the running joke of the FCS? I believe you can make a similar case for the PFL and the Ivies as well. HBCUs maybe, but then their championship bowl is worthy of more potential exposure...

Pretty sure its because they can't handle losing to us, unless they're JMU

[Pards Rule]

The PL is not the running joke of the FCS. It is still going through a transition period with scholarships and also has some members which take football more seriously than others. While the former issue will probably work itself out over time, it is hard to know what to do about the latter.

Exactly!! Hey things go in cycles and exasperatingly the PL is in a bad funk across the board. But Lafayette was tied with App State 20 all in mid 4th before falling 34-23 (as an at large, Lehigh won Patriot). A year before, 2004 which was first year PL got AQ, we got it and gave Delaware all they could handle, 28-14, with their last TD scored on a ball pop on their 30 or so and run back for TD with exactly 2:00 left in game.

[RichH2]

Exactly!! Hey things go in cycles and exasperatingly the PL is in a bad funk across the board. But Lafayette was tied with App State 20 all in mid 4th before falling 34-23 (as an at large, Lehigh won Patriot). A year before, 2004 which was first year PL got AQ, we got it and gave Delaware all they could handle, 28-14, with their last TD scored on a ball pop on their 30 or so and run back for TD with exactly 2:00 left in game.
Agree. PL given its rules and current transition with schollies will always be more susceptible to up and down swings. Our margin for error is very small compared to most full schollie leagues. A lot of hyperbole being thrown around right now. :) A " sky is falling "moment for many. It is what it is. PL will endure and improve. Damn embarrassing this year for sure. The mockery ,deserved or not, is truly meaningless albeit it annoying at times. We are who we are and as always we will strive for success even when its likely we have little chance to win.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Exactly!! Hey things go in cycles and exasperatingly the PL is in a bad funk across the board. But Lafayette was tied with App State 20 all in mid 4th before falling 34-23 (as an at large, Lehigh won Patriot). A year before, 2004 which was first year PL got AQ, we got it and gave Delaware all they could handle, 28-14, with their last TD scored on a ball pop on their 30 or so and run back for TD with exactly 2:00 left in game.

I will always say, in that App game, up 20-13, Tavani successfully executed an onsides kick that was overturned by a phantom penalty. Changed the course of that game. Had that stood and they scored, App State might not have come back.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Exactly!! Hey things go in cycles and exasperatingly the PL is in a bad funk across the board. But Lafayette was tied with App State 20 all in mid 4th before falling 34-23 (as an at large, Lehigh won Patriot). A year before, 2004 which was first year PL got AQ, we got it and gave Delaware all they could handle, 28-14, with their last TD scored on a ball pop on their 30 or so and run back for TD with exactly 2:00 left in game.

The PL had a great run from 1998-2005. Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate and Fordham fielded big time, legit FCS teams without scholarships. There was an Eddie Robinson Award Winner, Payton Winner, National Finalist, Multiple Top 25 teams, Lehigh had 3 undefeated regular seasons in 4 years etc. The league was THERE. Then something happened and the quality decreased. Lehigh, Colgate and Fordham have had some good to really good teams since but they've been far an fewer between than the previous decade.

I understand the dynamics of football in the Northeast has changed but that's nothing but an excuse for not keeping up. The potential is there. That's the most frustrating part. Scholarships to this point simply has not raised the level of the league at all.

The first red flag was Fordham and some took notice. Despite having a great HC and a full compliment of schollies they were getting roughed up in the playoffs against the better teams. Their ceiling only seemed so high. I said during their run I still thought there '02/'03 teams were better. Definitely tougher, more physical on defense. That's one of the big differences from that run a decade plus ago. Those teams could stand up physically far better than these teams. Lafayette was STOUT on D, Lehigh was Top 10/Top 20 scoring D nearly every year and Colgate ran it right at you. These recent teams are soft.

I love what Colgate did in 2015 but that still seems like an anomaly because, for one, they were so far off the radar as a 7-4 regular season team. They didn't have any national buzz. Then they weren't able to back it up last year so the momentum was lost. I get the injuries but it is what it is. They face the same issue next year with their OOC schedule. If they win those games great. That would be huge. But if they lose them the momentum that was gained at the end of this year is lost. They'll head into the PL season with no respect earned.

The money is there, the facilities generally speaking are there, there's still interest relative to most of FCS etc.

[Fordham]

Good luck Lehigh! May you do to SB what our 4 - 7 fourth place finisher did to UNH this year! I seriously have never seen a more pathetic league than what we produced this year across the board. The fact that a team from that group who finished in fourth place managed to beat UNH 51 - 26 is really amazing, no? Think for a moment about the ridicule Lehigh is receiving here (and I'm not arguing it's not justified and we were MUCH worse than them this year) ... and now think about your team losing 51 - 26 to a team who came in FOURTH behind Lehigh in that same conference getting ridiculed!!! I can understand other teams and other leagues coming in here to talk smack. It's all deserved this year as we have been beyond pathetic.

...but UNH fans in this thread? Seriously?!?!? 51 - 26. For those who don't remember, here's a fun read:

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/pujals-fires-5-tds-holy-cross-thrashes-new-hampshire-51-26-091617

See if you can find where the team that "thrashed" UNH finished in this most pathetic of conferences:
http://www.patriotleague.org/standings.aspx?path=football

As far as the game goes, good luck to Lehigh. I always have thought that our run D was the most paper-like of any i'd ever seen but that was before I saw Lehigh's where our 4th string RB went for almost 300yds. I can't imagine this one's going to be pretty if SB is as physical up front as I'm reading. May need another digit on the scoreboard but good luck to Lehigh and hope the bounces go our way in this one. Sure would be hilarious if they somehow pulled the win after the beating they and the league are taking in this thread.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

......Bottom line, you don't get credit for scheduling tough games and losing them. You get credit for scheduling tough games and winning them!

Go Lehigh TU owl, I don't disagree with your concern about PL o.o.c. performance. I do agree that increasing the annual performance against strong o.o.c. competition is critical if the broad promises of the schollie era for the PL brand are to be realized. That surely hasn't happened yet, ( You must remember that only Colgate, Fordham and Lehigh were enthusiastic advocates of ushering in schollies and their attendant responsibiities. Laffy and Holy Cross are just beginning to try to catch up.) However, from another perspective, I find your posts lacking context. Adding context to your posts won't change PL performance. But, it helps differentiate individual PL teams' approaches to o.o.c. scheduling. And that may elicit clues from other posters into whether, when and/or how any of the schools may change strategies impacting their poor o.o.c. performance. My knowledge of Colgate's situation may help us create a framework for analyzing the other PL schools o.o.c. scheduling strategoes. I am sharing one perspective that differs from yours in subtle ways. This perspective was initiated as a player at Colgate 50 years ago and ever since then as an observer of the ebb and flow of East Coast collegiate football. Colgate's shedules today look exactly as they did when (current Colgate Head Coach ) Dan Hunt joined Colgate as an assistant in 1995. You might know that prior to the creation of 1AA in 1978, Colgate annually scheduled from one to three of the big Eastern "football powers" ( now FBS ). Indeed, the 2003 run at the National Championship started out with a 38-15 thumping of FBS Buffalo. Ironically, high profile future games, already scheduled in 2003, were deliberately slashed from the schedules and football de-emphasizd overall via an intervention by an "un-football-friendly" Colgate President. His rationale: the abundant 2003 championship publicity wasn't good for the Colgate brand. While the high-RPI-FCS teams escaped the hatchet, the FBS games didn't re-emerge until 2010 when Colgate re-scheduled Syracuse. This game was kind of a retro on a rivalry started in 1891 spanning 61 games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgate–Syracuse_football_rivalry. But, annual scheduling of FBS schools wasn't re-instituted in the years immediately following .

It was in 2013, with the introduction of scholarships, that Colgate returned to scheduling 1 FBS game a year, starting with a loss to Air Force ( 38-13 ). The FBS institutions chosen were to represent either good academic institutions or ones having some connection to Colgate fb history. By example, the FBS game with Army in 2018 is the 30th in a series dating back to 1901. The high-RPI-FCS games that complete the current annual o.o.c. schedules often represent series that have some history and/or represent carefully chosen interregional opponents possessing "better-than-FCS-average" academic reputations. With that approach, the current Colgate President, a distinguished scholar-athlete himself, is probably the strongest President fb program advocate that Colgate has ever had. He wants 'gate to succeed with the aggressive o.o.c. scheduling. As a scholar of the history of American higher education, he appreciates Colgate's niche in FCS fb today. It makes sense to him that the niche consists of the blending of Colgate's 127 year football history, opponent high academic standards and stretch scheduling.

Most importantly for Colgate's approach, Hunt ( under the tutelage of Dick Biddle and Fred Dunlap ) has been steeped in a specific scheduling/coaching strategy for 22 years. One of its characteristics is stretching player/season/program performance through teachable moments within o.o.c. scheduling and applying it to the challenges/opportunities in the PL portion of the season. O.O.C. scheduling is a system born of Colgate's tradition--not a random group of body bag games with randomly chosen opponents. Surely Colgate's biggest current deficit is failing to achieve respectable o.o.c. performance with the opponents it chooses. At the very least, these stretch games present teachable moments upon which Colgate's unusually stable coaching staff can capitalize. Watching the future performance of freshman qb Grant Breneman and the playmakers around him, who cut their eyeteeth on losses to Richmond, Buffalo and Furman may provide some insight into this strategy ? We'll find out soon enough through evaluating next year's o.o.c. performance.

It's difficult to discern the strategies behind other Pl schools scheduling, let alone ones for improving their o.o.c. performance. But, different appropriate time frames for evaluating the different schools are emerging. Holy Cross, although digging into tradition, is an example of o.o.c. up-scheduling about which I have mixed emotions. H.C. is now scheduling many schools from its storied history, but which have sparingly dotted its schedules in the past 2 or 3 decades. H.C. is in a complete rebuilding mode after years of administration neglect of its overall athletic program. You're correct,...with their tough schedules, they'll face some very tough sledding in at least 2018 and 2019. Their timing for initiation of up-scheduling may be awful, given the transition to a new coach, which they were trying to avoid. But, this is an ambitious long term effort to utilize higher profile scheduling to accomplish multiple goals: revive their fb program/recruiting and the school's branding overall. Only time will tell whether the pain near term will have been worth it ? I have no opinion on the wisdom of Laffy's scheduling. Optimistically, Garrett may be the guy to re-align o.o.c. performance with Laffy's rich history and excellent facilities. It's a crap shoot to forecast any significant changes at this juncture. Like you, I think the post Moorhead Fordham is a mystery right now. Might it have lost the cachet that Moorhead bought to the Rans ? Finally, I'll rely on you, Go Lehigh TU owl, to enlighten us on how Lehigh's traditions, fb history and coaching stability differentiate its scheduling from other PL schools ?

The success of this transitional PL cycle, dedicated to reaping the benefits of schollies, is now dependent on achieving improved PL o.o.c. performance. This cycle is likely to be longer and its outcome less homogenized than your snap judgments reflect. I caution you that, as this transition matures, the future performance about which you cast generalizations will evolve quite differently for each PL team. They won't all be losers. If you doubt that, I suggest you confer with our dear and respected friend, Lehigh's A.D., Joe Sterrett and/or the "Philosopher-Coach" ( revered by both Colgate and Lehigh ) Fred Dunlap.

[ngineer]

The PL had a great run from 1998-2005. Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate and Fordham fielded big time, legit FCS teams without scholarships. There was an Eddie Robinson Award Winner, Payton Winner, National Finalist, Multiple Top 25 teams, Lehigh had 3 undefeated regular seasons in 4 years etc. The league was THERE. Then something happened and the quality decreased. Lehigh, Colgate and Fordham have had some good to really good teams since but they've been far an fewer between than the previous decade.

I understand the dynamics of football in the Northeast has changed but that's nothing but an excuse for not keeping up. The potential is there. That's the most frustrating part. Scholarships to this point simply has not raised the level of the league at all.

The first red flag was Fordham and some took notice. Despite having a great HC and a full compliment of schollies they were getting roughed up in the playoffs against the better teams. Their ceiling only seemed so high. I said during their run I still thought there '02/'03 teams were better. Definitely tougher, more physical on defense. That's one of the big differences from that run a decade plus ago. Those teams could stand up physically far better than these teams. Lafayette was STOUT on D, Lehigh was Top 10/Top 20 scoring D nearly every year and Colgate ran it right at you. These recent teams are soft.

I love what Colgate did in 2015 but that still seems like an anomaly because, for one, they were so far off the radar as a 7-4 regular season team. They didn't have any national buzz. Then they weren't able to back it up last year so the momentum was lost. I get the injuries but it is what it is. They face the same issue next year with their OOC schedule. If they win those games great. That would be huge. But if they lose them the momentum that was gained at the end of this year is lost. They'll head into the PL season with no respect earned.

The money is there, the facilities generally speaking are there, there's still interest relative to most of FCS etc.

I wonder if some of the 'down fall' can be attributed to changes in the game, i.e. everyone going with the spread offense, and the reduced contact in practice at times makes you feel like you are watch flag football.

[aceinthehole]

Colgate Raider Redux - great post, very insightful.

First, I have a lot of respect for the Colgate program. While I know it was a perceived low point for your program, the CCSU win at Hamilton in 2005 began our rise to be a more competitive FCS program. Not to mention, 'Gate fans are some of the classiest on this board.

But I do have a question - why has Colgate specifically chosen to avoid scheduling NEC teams? Why not even consider the small private schools like Bryant and Wagner, which have a solid, albeit not storied academic and athletic reputation?

Almost every other PL team (each with their own storied history and cherished academic profile), seem willing to mix in NEC schools on an annual or regular basis. Fir example,

Bryant has played Fordham, Holy Cross, Bucknell.
CCSU has recent home/away deals with Lehigh, Lafayette, Holy Cross, and Fordham.
Wagner has played Georgetown, Lehigh, Lafayette.

And in recent years, even Ivy League teams have begun to play AWAY games at NEC schools, including Dartmouth, Penn, Columbia, Brown, and Cornell.

I understand that Colgate want to play certain types of schools, but why are they so firm on avoiding NEC teams when their Patriot League counterparts and most Ivy League teams don't have the same restrictions placed on their schedules?

[DFW HOYA]

I understand the dynamics of football in the Northeast has changed but that's nothing but an excuse for not keeping up. The potential is there. That's the most frustrating part. Scholarships to this point simply has not raised the level of the league at all.


Scholarships aren't bringing a different level of talent into the PL. It's just the same talent pool who are now getting a free ride at six of the seven schools.

[CFBfan]

Scholarships aren't bringing a different level of talent into the PL. It's just the same talent pool who are now getting a free ride at six of the seven schools.

You need good coaches ....hc's that now how to coach and recruit scholarship talent
In that dept the PL is awful!!!

[RichH2]

Scholarships aren't bringing a different level of talent into the PL. It's just the same talent pool who are now getting a free ride at six of the seven schools.

Mostly true for the first 2 classes. Less so for the 3rd. Since then PL has targetted and gotten.more recruits with multiple FBS and Power FCS offers. The current verbal accentuate this trend even more. All Lehigh's verbals,save 1, have multiple FBS and ppwer FCS offers.

[CFBfan]

Scholarships aren't bringing a different level of talent into the PL. It's just the same talent pool who are now getting a free ride at six of the seven schools.


Mostly true for the first 2 classes. Less so for the 3rd. Since then PL has targetted and gotten.more recruits with multiple FBS and Power FCS offers. The current verbal accentuate this trend even more. All Lehigh's verbals,save 1, have multiple FBS and ppwer FCS offers.

With the 1st 2 classes gate went deep into the playoffs

[RichH2]

With the 1st 2 classes gate went deep into the playoffs

Referring to the PL overall. Gate had a number of difference makers. Not uncommon preschollie. No clas however had an abundance of recruits with multiple top offers. Gate Fordham Lehigh Cross and to a lessor extent Bucknell have gotten increasing numbers. We'll see how Garrett does. He did get a few even with the very late start.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Colgate
But I do have a question - why has Colgate specifically chosen to avoid scheduling NEC teams? Why not even consider the small private schools like Bryant and Wagner, which have a solid, albeit not storied academic and athletic reputation?

Almost every other PL team (each with their own storied history and cherished academic profile), seem willing to mix in NEC schools on an annual or regular basis.

This has more to do with Colgate than any deliberate shunning of the NEC.

I. History-scanning 'gate's historical list of games ( 1890-2016 ), I can only find a handfull of games with ( what are/were ) NEC teams: one with CCSU in 2006; four with former NEC member Monmouth 2006,9,10. 11; one with Sacred Heart in 2012; NEC/CAA Albany 2007, 11, 12, 13, 14 and one playoff game with Wagner in 2012. In the PL era ( 1986-present ), the five O.O.C. schedule slots were annually fulfilled by: 1. the Ivies, 2. FBS schools historically connected to 'gate, 3. an occasional CAA school, with hostorical connections ( Albany, Wm & Mary, Delaware ) and 4. conferences to fill-in one-off needs/oppotunities. The NEC games that we did schedule represent the #4th category and occurred within a specific time period. This was between the post 2003 Championship-run football scheduling cut-backs (imposed by Colgate's President ) and the initiation of schollies in 2013. This was a period where the Colgate fb program scheduled new conference relationships in an effort to demonstrate less "FBS-like-stretch" scheduling. This fulfilled the President's decree. When the President left a few years later, the scheduling drifted. You must remember, the PL had been initiated to provide o.o.c. non-scholly competition for the Ivy League's 1980 expansion to 10 game seasons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_League. This relationship worked for both sides for approximately 2 decades.

As time wore on, some PL schools ( Fordham-lead, with Colgate and Lehigh following ) felt that the conversion of previously non-scholly FCS opponents to schollies diluted the competitiveness and the "prestige-by-associaion" aspect of its scheduling. Many PL schools are conscious of the cachet accumulated from its historical fb niche in Div. I. ( Small selective schools playing competitive DI schedules ). As noted, scholies started in 2013.

II. "Ivy Envy"- The initiation of schollies pushed Colgate into a more "fine-tuned" scheduling strategy. In addition to relishing its past as a "small selective school playing competitive DI schedules," Colgate coveted the academic prestige from its long association with the Ivies. But, it anticipated that the Ivies might be less interested in scheduling scholly PL teams. In its current "fine-tuned" annual o.o.c. scheduling, Colgate has been concentrating on (annual) Cornell games ( 99 games since 1896 ), other Ivies it can schedule, the CAA schools with "higher academic standing" ( new twist ) and one FBS school. I'm familiar with the apparent Bryant snub which may have been a retroactive schedule change to reinforce the new "fine-tuning." It's not a policy against NEC teams. But, I don't know what the future will hold for NEC scheduling if Colgate can schedule teams reflecting this "fine-tuning ?"

[TheValleyRaider]

But I do have a question - why has Colgate specifically chosen to avoid scheduling NEC teams? Why not even consider the small private schools like Bryant and Wagner, which have a solid, albeit not storied academic and athletic reputation?

Almost every other PL team (each with their own storied history and cherished academic profile), seem willing to mix in NEC schools on an annual or regular basis. Fir example,

Bryant has played Fordham, Holy Cross, Bucknell.
CCSU has recent home/away deals with Lehigh, Lafayette, Holy Cross, and Fordham.
Wagner has played Georgetown, Lehigh, Lafayette.

And in recent years, even Ivy League teams have begun to play AWAY games at NEC schools, including Dartmouth, Penn, Columbia, Brown, and Cornell.

I understand that Colgate want to play certain types of schools, but why are they so firm on avoiding NEC teams when their Patriot League counterparts and most Ivy League teams don't have the same restrictions placed on their schedules?

It's an interesting question, and I'm far from the most plugged-in Colgate poster on the board, but I would speculate that the NEC's national reputation plays a part.

They don't really move the needle for Colgate fans in the way a William & Mary, Furman, or Richmond does. Some of that is national FCS prominence (on the limited scale all of that exists on), and some is broader academic reputation. Other PL and Ivy schools may be want to play those teams, but it appears the powers-that-be at Colgate are not.

They also aren't wins that really help the national perception of Colgate as a football team. I think Colgate wants to be a team that earns at-large consideration even if they don't win the League. We're not going to get that just winning games in the League as currently situated, so to cover the bases this means beating CAA and SoCon teams.

Does Colgate look better nationally if they finish 8-3 with a win over Richmond (who would be 5-6 in this scenario) or Central Connecticut (let's say you stay 8-3 here)? It's not quite that black/white, but it's not too far off either. Fair or not, that UR game carries more weight, and given how few games you have to make a national statement, I bet that plays into it. More shots at the big conferences, more chances for the big win.

Also, the clock ran out and you shouldn't have gotten to kick that field goal :p

[TheValleyRaider]

I. History-scanning 'gate's historical list of games ( 1890-2016 ), I can only find a handfull of games with ( what were ) NEC teams: one with CCSU in 2006; four with former NEC member Monmouth, 2006,9,10. 11; one with Sacred Heart in 2012; and one with Wagner in 2012. In the PL era ( 1986-present ), the five O.O.C. schedule slots were annually fulfilled by mainly: 1.the Ivies, 2, historically connected FBS schools 3. an occasional CAA school ( Albany, Wm & Mary, Delaware ) and 4 miscellaneous.

Point of clarification, you should throw Albany in the NEC mixture as well. We've played Albany once since they joined the CAA, finishing a deal made while they were NEC.

[aceinthehole]

Thanks guys. I get it. NEC teams don't have the cachet - no argument from me, it is true.

Again, I just find it odd that most of the Ivy League (except H-Y-P) and all of the Patriot (except Colgate) are REGULARLY scheduling NEC teams. It just strikes me that Colgate is a hold out, alongside only Harvard, Yale, and Princeton.

First, I NEVER though I'd every see the day that CCSU (of all the NEC schools) would get HOME games vs. Dartmouth, Penn, and Columbia. For a while, I was expecting us to have to settle for 2 for 1 with Lehigh and others. But honestly, this question wasn't really about Central, because we are the lone public university in the NEC and are an odd duck. We look like more like a CAA team, but without the funding, support, or pedigree. We still have to take $$$ games vs. "peers" like SBU, UNH, and Towson because we are broke and can't get them to return a game to New Britain.

Anyway, I just imagined that at least Wagner and Bryant would be seen as 'acceptable' opponents for Colgate. I don't think any PL team should have more than 2 NEC schools scheduled per year, but when you are trying to fill out a 5-game OOC schedule, how can you avoid NEC schools in your backyard? I really like the 'local' NEC-PL matchups like RMU-Bucknell, Wagner-Fordham, Saint Francis-Georgetown, etc. I know some schools would like to avoid the NEC as much as possible, but the reality is there are only so many Ivy and CAA games available and its not enough to fill out all the Patriot League openings.

Again, no question teams like William &Mary, Richmond, Villanova, Furman, etc. and of course Ivy League teams are the PREFERRED opponents, I just expected the scheduling reality would mean 'Gate would have to schedule NEC teams (and the Pioneer to a lesser degree) to fill out your schedule. That being said, 'Gate had just 10 games schedule because of their unwillingness to keep a HOME game with Bryant.

[Go...gate]

Go Lehigh TU owl, I don't disagree with your concern about PL o.o.c. performance. I do agree that increasing the annual performance against strong o.o.c. competition is critical if the broad promises of the schollie era for the PL brand are to be realized. That surely hasn't happened yet, ( You must remember that only Colgate, Fordham and Lehigh were enthusiastic advocates of ushering in schollies and their attendant responsibiities. Laffy and Holy Cross are just beginning to try to catch up.) However, from another perspective, I find your posts lacking context. Adding context to your posts posts won't change PL performance. But, it helps differentiate individual PL teams' approaches to o.o.c. scheduling. And that may elicit clues from other posters into whether, when and/or how any of the schools may change strategies impacting their poor o.o.c. performance. I am sharing one perspective that differs from yours in subtle ways. This perspective was initiated as a player at Colgate 50 years ago and ever since then as an observer of the ebb and flow of East Coast collegiate football. Colgate's shedules today look exactly as they did when (current Colgate Head Coach ) Dan Hunt joined Colgate as an assistant in 1995. You might know that prior to the creation of 1AA, Colgate annually scheduled from one to three of the big Eastern "football schools" ( now FBS ). Indeed, the 2003 run at the National Championship started out with a 38-15 thumping of FBS Buffalo. Ironically, high profile future games, already scheduled in 2003, were deliberately slashed from the schedules and football de-emphasizd overall via an itervention by an "un-football-friendly" Colgate President. His rationale: the abundant 2003 championship publicity wasn't good for the Colgate brand. While the high-RPI-FCS teams escaped the hatchet, the FBS games didn't re-emerge until 2010 when Colgate re-scheduled Syracuse. This game was kind of a retro on a rivalry started in 1891 spanning 61 games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colgate–Syracuse_football_rivalry. But, annual scheduling of FBS schools wasn't re-instituted in the immediately following years.

It was in 2013, with the introduction of scholarships, that Colgate returned to scheduling 1 FBS game a year, starting with a loss to Air Force ( 38-13 ). The games were to represent either good academic institutions or ones having some connection to Colgate fb history. The FBS game with Army in 2018 is the 30th in a series dating back to 1901. The high-RPI -FCS games that complete the current annual o.o.c. schedules often represent series that have some history and/or represent carefully chosen interregional opponents possessing "better-than-FCS-average" academic reputations. With that approach, the current Colgate President, a distinguished scholar-athlete himself, is probably the strongest President fb program advocate that Colgate has ever had. He wants 'gate to succeed with the aggressive o.o.c. scheduling. The blending of Colgate tradition, high opponent academic standards and aggressive scheduling is the appeal.

Although also digging into tradition, Holy Cross is an example of o.o.c. up-scheduling about which I have mixed emotions. H.C. is now scheduling many schools from its storied history, but which have sparingly dotted its schedules in the past 2 or 3 decades. H.C. is in a complete rebuilding mode after years of administration neglect of its overall athletic program. You're correct,...with their tough schedules, they'll face some very tough sledding in at least 2018 and 2019. Their timing for initiation of up-scheduling may be awful, given the transition to a new coach, which they were trying to avoid. But, this is an ambitious long term effort to utilize higher profile scheduling to accomplish multiple goals: revive their fb program/recruiting and the school's branding overall. Only time will tell whether the pain near term will have been worth it ? I have no opinion on the wisdom of Laffy's scheduling. Optimistically, Garrett may be the guy to re-align o.o.c. performance with Laffy's rich history and excellent facilities. It's a crap shoot to forecast any significant changes at this juncture. Like you, I think the post Moorhead Fordham is a mystery right now. Might it have lost the cachet that Moorhead bought to the Rans ? Finally, I'll rely on you, Go Lehigh TU owl, to enlighten us on how Lehigh's traditions, fb history and coaching stability differentiate its scheduling from other PL schools ?

Most importantly for Colgate's approach, Hunt ( under the tutelage of Dick Biddle and Fred Dunlap ) has been steeped in a specific scheduling/coaching strategy for 22 years. One of its characteristics is stretching player/season/program performance through teachable moments within o.o.c. scheduling and applying it in the PL portion of the season. O.O.C. scheduling is a system born of Colgate's tradition--not a random group of body bag games with "anybody." Surely Colgate's biggest current deficit is failing to achieve respectable o.o.c. performance with the opponents it chooses. At the very least, these stretch games never fail to present teachable moments that are capitalized on by Colgate's unusually stable coaching staff. Watching the future performance of freshman qb Grant Breneman and the playmakers around him, who cut their eyeteeth on losses to Richmond, Buffalo and Furman, may provide some insight into this strategy ? We'll find out soon enough in next year's o.o.c. performance.

The success of this transitional PL cycle, dedicated to reaping the benefits of schollies, is now dependent on achieving improved PL o.o.c. performance. This cycle is likely to be longer and its outcome less homogenized than your snap judgments reflect. I caution you that, as this transition matures, the future performance about which you cast generalizations will evolve quite differently for each PL team. They won't all be losers. If you doubt that, I suggest you confer with our dear and respected friend, Lehigh's A.D., Joe Sterrett and/or the "Philosopher-Coach" ( revered by both Colgate and Lehigh ) Fred Dunlap.

Well said.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

CRR,

I don't think Lehigh's scheduling philosophy is that much different than the rest of the PL. Lehigh's AD has generally consistent and in some ways boring. Lehigh has challenged themselves with a steady dose of top tier CAA programs ('Nova, JMU, UNH), the better Ivies (Princeton, Yale, Penn) which is what you want. I think the Ivy League games are great. Who cares about opinions of those who have never watched it on a consistent basis think. It's a very good brand of FCS football most years. I also think think scheduling the better NEC teams is wise. Lehigh will generally schedule 5-6 home games. Lehigh has a nice facility and still respectable fan support. Especially compared to the rest of the PL.

Obviously I'm not a huge fan of FBS games on the regular but I see it from both sides (Temple/Lehigh). With that said, Lehigh does have a long history with Rutgers. In terms of games played more so than Colgate and HC have with any current FBS programs. Plus, there are some terrible FBS programs that a quality Patriot League team should be able to compete with and beat from time to time. Fordham proved that was possible. For whatever reason Colgate's FBS performances have been really non-competitive. Next year's games are going to be especially ugly. The Lehigh-Navy game is going to be comical! Same with Fordham and Navy! Likewise with Army-Lafayette if Monken stays in West Point. Army-Colgate won't be much better. BC is going to steamroll a rebuilding HC program. If nothing else it will showcase how inferior the PL players are to quality FBS ballers. They will be physically and mentally punished! Colgate plays Army at the end of next year so the timing will be good for a physical beating. Especially when depth is usually tested.

[ElCid]

Well said.

Yeah, Redux is killing it with thoughtful explanations. This has been a very enjoyable thread to read the last couple pages.

I would love a series with Colgate. Haven't been to upstate NY in quite a while. And I know my dad would go. He used to watch Colgate and Syracuse back in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. That was his favorite game to watch growing up.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

CRR,
. Next year's games are going to be especially ugly. The Lehigh-Navy game is going to be comical! Same with Fordham and Navy! Likewise with Army-Lafayette if Monken stays in West Point. Army-Colgate won't be much better. BC is going to steamroll a rebuilding HC program. If nothing else it will showcase how inferior the PL players are to quality FBS ballers. They will be physically and mentally punished! Colgate plays Army at the end of next year so the timing will be good for a physical beating. Especially when depth is usually tested.

Go Lehigh TU ow (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/member.php?107-Go-Lehigh-TU-owl)l, I believe "the jig is up" on PL o.o.c. fb scheduling as purely a marketing ploy. I think it's axiomatic that collegiate o.o.c. scheduling is part marketing/part arhletic performance. But, maintaining the balance is tricky. Keep in mind, I think this is a school-by-school thing in the P.L.. I'll cut Laffy some slack because they have a new coach and he should be given 2-3 years to create a new performance trajectory. Although H.C. presumably is also getting a new head coach, he's walking into a hornet's nest, born of H.C. looking for a quick fix for its declining overall insitutional brand through scheduling what it wants you to believe are its "peer" schools. But, the H.C. situation raises the question: when does the scheduling effort to create an impression that the opponent is an institutional peer backfire because the on-field athletic performance is so ugly ? And that exposes the question of whether this school has its sh't together on anything ? On an individual school level, every PL school has to decide if the current competitive gap between us and our o.o.c. opponents is really going to close or whether its just a marketing ploy to create a niche ?

Can Colgate emerge from this mess by creating some performance to go with the niche ? Who knows. But, I can tell you this--Colgate is not likely to have a better opportunity to slightly eclipse .500 on its competitive o.o.c. schedule ( something it has yet to do in the scholly era.) than it does next year. A Rookie of the Year qb is returning with the entire team/group of playmakers ( on both sides of the ball ) who developed chemistry with one another from losses in the o.o.c. schedule and evolved into success with lesser competition in the P.L.part of the season. If they can't deliver .500 from the o.o.c. in the 2018 season ( the 6th year of schollies accompanied by a coaching staff that has remained in tact during that period and a Head coach who has been coaching the 'gate fb team for 22 years ), then you have to question the wisdom of the o.o.c. scheduling strategy ? Believe me--although I'm an alum, I have no interest in becoming a homer. So, I have to ask the question of Colgate that I'd ask the other PL teams. Although this niche of scheduing an FBS team and "historically-higher-RPI-FCS-teams-than-individual-PL-schools," could it become a sham if there is no success ? When do we reach that point ?

A related question is what's an acceptable FBS margin of loss in a game ? And what is an acceptable pattern of sustained FBS game loss margins year in and out ?
These are questions we have to confront.

[Sader87]

CRR,

I don't think Lehigh's scheduling philosophy is that much different than the rest of the PL. Lehigh's AD has generally consistent and in some ways boring. Lehigh has challenged themselves with a steady dose of top tier CAA programs ('Nova, JMU, UNH), the better Ivies (Princeton, Yale, Penn) which is what you want. I think the Ivy League games are great. Who cares about opinions of those who have never watched it on a consistent basis think. It's a very good brand of FCS football most years. I also think think scheduling the better NEC teams is wise. Lehigh will generally schedule 5-6 home games. Lehigh has a nice facility and still respectable fan support. Especially compared to the rest of the PL.

Obviously I'm not a huge fan of FBS games on the regular but I see it from both sides (Temple/Lehigh). With that said, Lehigh does have a long history with Rutgers. In terms of games played more so than Colgate and HC have with any current FBS programs. Plus, there are some terrible FBS programs that a quality Patriot League team should be able to compete with and beat from time to time. Fordham proved that was possible. For whatever reason Colgate's FBS performances have been really non-competitive. Next year's games are going to be especially ugly. The Lehigh-Navy game is going to be comical! Same with Fordham and Navy! Likewise with Army-Lafayette if Monken stays in West Point. Army-Colgate won't be much better. BC is going to steamroll a rebuilding HC program. If nothing else it will showcase how inferior the PL players are to quality FBS ballers. They will be physically and mentally punished! Colgate plays Army at the end of next year so the timing will be good for a physical beating. Especially when depth is usually tested.

Quibbling, but HC has played BC 82 times to LU-Rutgers 74.

CRR seems to relish in Holy Cross' demise ovah the last 25 years or so, which is his right to do.

The thing is, Holy Cross' downfall in athletics, and its subsequent brand to an extent, can be traced to decisions made 30, 40 years ago i.e. not joining the Big East in basketball and then going non-scholarship in football when it joined the Colonial League about a half-decade later.

It's taken many years and some soul-searching by the HC admin to a degree but they have generally come to the conclusion that winning/being successful in athletics (particularly hoop and football) will be good for the school.

Whether we have missed the boat yet again is still to be determined but it is largely the thinking behind scheduling schools like BC, Syracuse and Navy in football.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Yeah, Redux is killing it with thoughtful explanations. This has been a very enjoyable thread to read the last couple pages.

I would love a series with Colgate. Haven't been to upstate NY in quite a while. And I know my dad would go. He used to watch Colgate and Syracuse back in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. That was his favorite game to watch growing up.

Thanks for checking in ElCid. I really enjoy learning how FCS schools with deep football histories and traditions have evolved. From my impression of The Citadel, I think a series with you all would seem to make sense. And who wouldn't want to tailgate in Charleston ? Charleston--what a great city and surrounding area. And the southern military school vibe would be a special treat. Of course, accompanied by a Victory. And of course for you, the color season in Upstate New York in October is still pretty spectacular, especially as a round trip to and from a great football game.

As all of our student bodies have become increasingly national and international, I think expanding into regular interregional games seems logical. We've just completed a h&h with Richmond, complete a h&h with Furman in 2018, and commencing a h&h with Wm & Mary in 2018. Why not The Citadel ?

[ElCid]

Thanks for checking in ElCd. I really enjoy learning how FCS schools with deep football history and traditions have evolved. From my impression of The Citadel., I think a series with you all would seem to make sense. And who wouldn't want to tailgate in Charleston. Can't imagine what it'd be like tailgate in Charleston--what a great city and surrounding area. And the color season in Upstate New York in October can be pretty spectacular. As all of our student bodies have become increasingly national and international, I think expanding into interregional games seems logical. We've just completed a h&h with Richmond, complete a h&h with Furman in 2018, and commencing a h&h with Wm & Mary in 2018. Why not The Citadel ?

I spent 5+ years in the Mohawk Valley when I was stationed in Rome. Beautiful area. My Dad's family is from upstate so I would love a trip back. Next year we have a series started with Towson for two games and Chuck South for 5 years I think, but maybe one year we can get one together.

[Go...gate]

Yeah, Redux is killing it with thoughtful explanations. This has been a very enjoyable thread to read the last couple pages.

I would love a series with Colgate. Haven't been to upstate NY in quite a while. And I know my dad would go. He used to watch Colgate and Syracuse back in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. That was his favorite game to watch growing up.

We had a home and home in the 1970's and I attended the 1975 game in Hamilton. Would love to see Colgate and The Citadel get together on another home-and-home or maybe more.

[DFW HOYA]

I really like the 'local' NEC-PL matchups like RMU-Bucknell, Wagner-Fordham, Saint Francis-Georgetown, etc. I know some schools would like to avoid the NEC as much as possible, but the reality is there are only so many Ivy and CAA games available and its not enough to fill out all the Patriot League openings.


St. Francis is 180 miles northwest of Georgetown. That's the same distance as that other local opponent, Princeton.