CAA History & the UR feud

[DTSpider]

It was brought up in another thread but figure it should stand on its own. A little history lesson before the onslaught of opinions:

CAA BIOGRAPHY (from the CAA website http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8500&ATCLID=319557)

The CAA traces its roots back to 1983 when three of its current members- George Mason, James Madison, and William and Mary - were aligned with East Carolina University, the United States Naval Academy and the University of Richmond as a basketball league (ECAC South). During the next two years, the league added 11 sports, acquired two new members (UNC Wilmington and American University) and decided to form a new association. The transformation from ECAC South to CAA took place on June 6, 1985. By the fall of 1986, the league gained automatic bids to NCAA Championships in men’s basketball, soccer, baseball and women’s basketball and formed an officials’ bureau. Old Dominion became a member of the CAA in 1991-92 and Virginia Commonwealth University joined the conference prior to the 1995-96 season. University of Delaware, Drexel University, Hofstra University and Towson University in 2001. Georgia State University and Northeastern University became members of the conference on July 1, 2005.

Now, for the opinion section based on what I've gathered, but will have a VA bias since that's where most of my info comes from.

UR & W&M left the SoCon over academic concerns and became independents. UR was playing 1A football, W&M 1AA football (moved down at the split) and JMU played 1AA (a relative newcomer but with lofty ambitions) . In the early 1980's W&M was interested and almost joined the Patriot League. UR & JMU convinced W&M to instead join the ECAC along with GMU, Navy & ECU for basketball. The viewpoint was that these were similar schools and kept intact some long standing rivalries (UR, W&M, ECU, Navy) while building for future ones (JMU, GMU, etc.). UNCW was added for ECU and American came aboad to form the conference in 1985. By this point, UR's had held the infamous secret board meeting where the decision to move to 1AA was made. Of course, the CAA was a basketball league at heart, but ambitions started for football among JMU, W&M, & UR. After David Robinson left Navy, they felt it was best to move to the Patriot League. ODU was brought in to replace Navy, and was a great fit. When the Metro conference imploded VCU was added. After witnessing the basketball focused Metro collapse, the pressure to add football schools to stabalize the conference grew. American always missed the rivalry with Navy and without football was concerned about the direction of the CAA (based on rumors below).

Now, this is where the fun rumors begin. As I understand it, the CAA was courting Davidson (UR & W&M missed their old SoCon buddy) and UD (a good fit) and wanted another school to get to 6 football schools to be able to take over the Yankee. Now, who to add as the other school? I'd heard VMI was the choice, but didn't want to leave the SoCon. Davidson however, never brought back scholarships. The plan was fizzling. American bolted the CAA for the Patriot League (breaking their commitment & creating a legal battle). Rumors was that W&M was also thinking about the PL.

UR's former president supposedly assured W&M not to look elsewhere. ODU was offered an A10 spot and turned it down. In comes UR's new president. He called the A10 and the A10 wasn't interested in UR (courting other options). UR committed to the CAA to help look to build elsewhere to replace American. Plans became to add UD, Towson, Drexel and not Davidson. UR's president decided that these schools were too different from UR as they are publics. UR's president called back the A10 and when offered a spot accepted it.

Hence the fallout. I have no problem with fans from JMU & especially W&M being upset over how it happened. I didn't like it either, but don't blame UR fans. We've finally gotten rid of the source.

Others can add comments and/or correct as they see fit. As mentioned, the rumors were what I heard, but I do not assume to know everything and know that there's probably a different twist among every fan base.

[DFW HOYA]

Davidson dropped scholarships before the CAA was founded.

The CAA was somewhat unstable when UR decided to jump early rather than shore up the base; in hindsight, the league survived and that's why the grudge is out there. (Kind of like Boston College jumping ship from to the Big East.)

Also, the ECAC South was the original basketball home for much of what is now the A-10 (West Virginia, Pitt, Duquesne, GW, St. Joe's) as well as two Big East schools (Georgetown, Villanova).

[OL FU]

I am glad you posted it. Interesting information and I will be interested to see how the story differs by school

[Sly Fox]

The solution is simple to avoid all of the friction ... the Spiders should jump ship to the Big South. :lmao:

Seriously, thanks for the refresher course. I was in school back when most of this went down and I remember the uproar among the UR faithful.

[DTSpider]

Davidson dropped scholarships before the CAA was founded.

That makes more sense, thanks.

[DTSpider]

Also, the ECAC South was the original basketball home for much of what is now the A-10 (West Virginia, Pitt, Duquesne, GW, St. Joe's) as well as two Big East schools (Georgetown, Villanova).

What was the timing on that? I didn't think that there was an overlap with the CAA schools, but I could be wrong.

[Col Hogan]

It was brought up in another thread but figure it should stand on its own. A little history lesson before the onslaught of opinions:

CAA BIOGRAPHY (from the CAA website http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8500&ATCLID=319557)

The CAA traces its roots back to 1983 when three of its current members- George Mason, James Madison, and William and Mary - were aligned with East Carolina University, the United States Naval Academy and the University of Richmond as a basketball league (ECAC South). During the next two years, the league added 11 sports, acquired two new members (UNC Wilmington and American University) and decided to form a new association. The transformation from ECAC South to CAA took place on June 6, 1985. By the fall of 1986, the league gained automatic bids to NCAA Championships in men’s basketball, soccer, baseball and women’s basketball and formed an officials’ bureau. Old Dominion became a member of the CAA in 1991-92 and Virginia Commonwealth University joined the conference prior to the 1995-96 season. University of Delaware, Drexel University, Hofstra University and Towson University in 2001. Georgia State University and Northeastern University became members of the conference on July 1, 2005.

Now, for the opinion section based on what I've gathered, but will have a VA bias since that's where most of my info comes from.

UR & W&M left the SoCon over academic concerns and became independents. UR was playing 1A football, W&M 1AA football (moved down at the split) and JMU played 1AA (a relative newcomer but with lofty ambitions) . In the early 1980's W&M was interested and almost joined the Patriot League. UR & JMU convinced W&M to instead join the ECAC along with GMU, Navy & ECU for basketball. The viewpoint was that these were similar schools and kept intact some long standing rivalries (UR, W&M, ECU, Navy) while building for future ones (JMU, GMU, etc.). UNCW was added for ECU and American came aboad to form the conference in 1985. By this point, UR's had held the infamous secret board meeting where the decision to move to 1AA was made. Of course, the CAA was a basketball league at heart, but ambitions started for football among JMU, W&M, & UR. After David Robinson left Navy, they felt it was best to move to the Patriot League. ODU was brought in to replace Navy, and was a great fit. When the Metro conference imploded VCU was added. After witnessing the basketball focused Metro collapse, the pressure to add football schools to stabalize the conference grew. American always missed the rivalry with Navy and without football was concerned about the direction of the CAA (based on rumors below).

Now, this is where the fun rumors begin. As I understand it, the CAA was courting Davidson (UR & W&M missed their old SoCon buddy) and UD (a good fit) and wanted another school to get to 6 football schools to be able to take over the Yankee. Now, who to add as the other school? I'd heard VMI was the choice, but didn't want to leave the SoCon. Davidson however, never brought back scholarships. The plan was fizzling. American bolted the CAA for the Patriot League (breaking their commitment & creating a legal battle). Rumors was that W&M was also thinking about the PL.

UR's former president supposedly assured W&M not to look elsewhere. ODU was offered an A10 spot and turned it down. In comes UR's new president. He called the A10 and the A10 wasn't interested in UR (courting other options). UR committed to the CAA to help look to build elsewhere to replace American. Plans became to add UD, Towson, Drexel and not Davidson. UR's president decided that these schools were too different from UR as they are publics. UR's president called back the A10 and when offered a spot accepted it.

Hence the fallout. I have no problem with fans from JMU & especially W&M being upset over how it happened. I didn't like it either, but don't blame UR fans. We've finally gotten rid of the source.

Others can add comments and/or correct as they see fit. As mentioned, the rumors were what I heard, but I do not assume to know everything and know that there's probably a different twist among every fan base.

Great history post! This whole A-10/CAA/what ever comes next story line needs folks to keep the history so we know where we came from.

Thanks!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Great post. When this this part happen, what year?


UR's former president supposedly assured W&M not to look elsewhere. ODU was offered an A10 spot and turned it down. In comes UR's new president. He called the A10 and the A10 wasn't interested in UR (courting other options). UR committed to the CAA to help look to build elsewhere to replace American. Plans became to add UD, Towson, Drexel and not Davidson. UR's president decided that these schools were too different from UR as they are publics. UR's president called back the A10 and when offered a spot accepted it.

My understanding was that W&M's interest in joining the PL was tepid at best. The PL was a brand-new football-only league (at first) based on a strict non-scholarship model from the get-go. Lehigh was in the ECAC for basketball before the PL sponsored basketball, and played Towson in the 1990 ECAC final to get to the NCAA tournament. It was only in the early '90s when the Patriot League would even get an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.

That basketball history, IMO, is very important. That stuff about Richmond joining the A-10 to me were almost exclusively basketball-related, and the Patriot League's basketball situation at that time was as a non-scholarship league struggling to even get an invite to the tournament. Meanwhile, Richmond was knocking off Syracuse and was poised to be a basketball powerhouse.

[DTSpider]

Great post. When this this part happen, what year?

UR's new president came in 1998. UR moved in 2000 with the announcement in 1999. The A10 was trying to replace the loss of WVU & Tech to the Big East and create a more stable conference.

[89Hen]

DT cleaned it up a bit. How about sharing the letter your President wrote to the CAA about how UD was a hick school, Towson was a commuter school and Drexel was the fifth best school in Philadelphia. He went on to call JMU "Just Missed University" for being in UVA's shadows. He also called W&M a disfunctional public school that pretends it is private. He slammed GMU for being larger than any other CAA school but couldn't figure out how to start a football program. He called VCU one of "those schools" and ODU and UNC-W schools for beach bums living off their parents. :cool:

[OL FU]

DT cleaned it up a bit. How about sharing the letter your President wrote to the CAA about how UD was a hick school, Towson was a commuter school and Drexel was the fifth best school in Philadelphia. He went on to call JMU "Just Missed University" for being in UVA's shadows. He also called W&M a disfunctional public school that pretends it is private. He slammed GMU for being larger than any other CAA school but couldn't figure out how to start a football program. He called VCU one of "those schools" and ODU and UNC-W schools for beach bums living off their parents. :cool:

I knew it would get more interesting:nod:

[henfan]

UNCW was added for ECU and American came aboad to form the conference in 1985. By this point, UR's had held the infamous secret board meeting where the decision to move to 1AA was made...

American always missed the rivalry with Navy and without football was concerned about the direction of the CAA (based on rumors below)...

Now, this is where the fun rumors begin. As I understand it, the CAA was courting Davidson (UR & W&M missed their old SoCon buddy) and UD (a good fit) and wanted another school to get to 6 football schools to be able to take over the Yankee. Now, who to add as the other school? I'd heard VMI was the choice, but didn't want to leave the SoCon. Davidson however, never brought back scholarships...

DT, didn't UR reclassify its football program as I-AA after the 1981 season?

My recollection of American leaving the CAA had more to do with the school's sports not being competitive in the conference and less to do with the loss of the USNA rivalry. Afterall, American still maintained a close rivalry with George Mason, directly across the Potomac.

After AU announced their departure from the CAA in early Spring 2000, the conference immediately began looking for replacements. An April 2000 expansion plan was only days away from being announced when UR signed on with the A-10. The agreement would have brought Delaware, VMI, Furman, the Citadel, Wofford and Davidson to a 12-team CAA. The football league would have consisted of El Cid, Furman, Wofford, VMI, JMU, UR, W&M, and Delaware with one affiliate, Villanova. (Incidentally, the football proposal was very similar to one discussed by the CAA and the teams involved back in 1996*.) The league was not counting on Davidson to sponsor FB at the full equivalancy level, from what I understand. UR's sudden and expected departure killed the deal.

The CAA then approached the America East in the late Summer of 2000 with a deal that would have effectively killed the CAA. The AEC would have absorbed ODU, W&M, JMU, Virginia Commonwealth and George Mason. That vote was killed by Vermont, Hartford and Boston U. in the Fall of 2000. Delaware, Hofstra, Towson and Drexel, all of whom strongly supported the AEC alliance with the CAA, announced their departure from the AEC in Dec. 2000.

As for the hard feelings between the CAA and UR, I think they're overblown. As evidence, UR still maintains affiliate membership in the CAA for two sports. UR's longtime former AD Chuck Boone was hired last year to become the head of CAA FB operations.

*Reference:
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1996/vp961017/10170530.htm

[89Hen]

As for the hard feelings between the CAA and UR, I think they're overblown.
You're overblown. Now shut up and let everyone think we hate Richmond. :mad:

[henfan]

You're overblown.

I don't have to try hard, though.:rotateh:

[DTSpider]

DT cleaned it up a bit. How about sharing the letter your President wrote to the CAA about how UD was a hick school, Towson was a commuter school and Drexel was the fifth best school in Philadelphia. He went on to call JMU "Just Missed University" for being in UVA's shadows. He also called W&M a disfunctional public school that pretends it is private. He slammed GMU for being larger than any other CAA school but couldn't figure out how to start a football program. He called VCU one of "those schools" and ODU and UNC-W schools for beach bums living off their parents. :cool:

Of course, all of those things were nicer than what he said about UR students and alums : smh :

[DTSpider]

Henfan, I thought that the 2000 proposal was dead before UR moved (that the SoCon schools had nixed it). UR had previously inquired about the A10 prior to American leaving, but then went back later. American & UR both were barred from CAA postseason play which drew a lawsuit from American.

Regardless, if UR had a different president I think that league could have been pulled off. I personally wish that it had occurred. Would have been a great football conference.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Yes, reading DT's post and 89Hen's response sums it up. If you want to know your history, read multiple sources. I always found the civil war lit. fascinating because the same battles were written about in such different ways depending on the author and whether he was a Yankee or a Confederate.

Anyway, I agree that American leaving had to do with pitiful showings in Basketball. The CAA has always been a stronger league than the Patriot for Men's Basketball. (Thus, the Spider faithful almost ***** a brick when current Pres. tried to move them to the PL)

JMU fans, in my opinion, generally like the rivalry we had with UR. We don't whine about them too much because we seriously feel the CAA of today superior to the A-10 (debatable of course). Both school had some success in the NCAA tourney, JMU in the 80's, and the spiders more recently (aside from the 15 over 2 seed Syracuse in 80 something). Sadly, both schools are pathetic in their men's bball programs and would love to rewrite in different ways for similar reasons.

JMU I think gets more irritated by ECU (or maybe it's just that StillJonesing guy that can't stay off of the CAAZone boards). I have to admit, I think it's I-A envy. But then again, it really is fun to laugh at them when they play for nothing in December.

The truly interesting point going forward I think is not about UR. No one really cares I don't think. We CAA members do care about the impact of ODU football on the conference. Will GMU and VCU finally shell out the funds to support a football program as well, and then what happens to the Northern tier schools (Ex. Maine, Villanova, etc.)? Will this open the door for JMU, UD and similar schools to make the I-A jump?

Ok, not trying to threadjack, just pointing out how CAA schools care much less about the UR debacle and much more about the future of the conference, in ALL sports.

:twocents:

[bostonspider]

Both school had some success in the NCAA tourney, JMU in the 80's, and the spiders more recently (aside from the 15 over 2 seed Syracuse in 80 something).


I think you are a little off on the two school's relative success

UR went to the big dance in 84 (beat Auburn), 86 (beat Rider), 88 (Sweet Sixteen, G.Tech and Indiana), 90, 91 (beat Syracuse), 98 (beat USC), and 2004.

JMU went in 81 (beat Georgetown), 82 (beat OSU) and 83 (Beat WVU), and 1994.

UR's success is both from the 80's and also recent, though not recent enough obviously....

[th0m]

I went to AGS to avoid JMU basketball!!!

[spdram]

Good history lesson by the above posters. I had forgotten some of the facts. Of course the stories (like the Civil War history) are always told with a cetain slant, but like DT I always understood the southern deal was dead before we went to the A-10. I also have heard that other schools were then being mentioned, all very dissimilar to UR, I cannot recall who they were at this time. Like DT I also believe we would not have been in the A-10 except for having Cooper as a President. I believe most any other President would have assisted in brokering a deal that generated an all sports/academic conference. Cooper was a cancer in many regards -- he did some good things, but I celebrated the day he resigned. It took a near revolt of faculty, alum, staff, community and students to remove him from the office. I would not wish someone like him on any school. I fully expect another eastern conference shake up in the next ten years, once again it will be football driven.

As for our move to 1-AA, I thought the first year was 1984, we went 8-4, made the playoffs, beat Boston U 35-33 and lost to URI 17-23 in the second round. Final ranking was 12th in 1-AA.

[DFW HOYA]

What was the timing on that? I didn't think that there was an overlap with the CAA schools, but I could be wrong.

When the ECAC South was formed in 1975, almost every indpendendent from Pennsylvania to Virginia was in it but there was no round robin scheduling. The Eastern 8 schools left in 1976 (Penn State, Pitt, Duquesne, West Virginia, Rutgers, UMass, GW, Villanova). In 1978, Georgetown was classified in the ECAC South with UR, VCU, ODU, Navy, W&M, Catholic (who was D-I then) and Loyola, and new scheduling rules would have ended regular games with ECAC-Metro teams like St. John's, Seton Hall, etc. Thus, the Big East was a move towards better scheduling and TV opportunities that the ECAC South did not have.

The ECAC South became the CAA. The ECAC-Metro became the NEC, while the ECAC-North Atlantic is basically now America East.

[*****]

... As for our move to I-AA, I thought the first year was 1984, we went 8-4, made the playoffs, beat Boston U 35-33 and lost to URI 17-23 in the second round. Final ranking was 12th in I-AA.Richmond ............1982-current
http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=53435

[mainejeff]

The hard feelings that some CAA fans harbor for Richmond is comical. GET OVER IT! You'd think that the CAA was the only conference who was ever "jilted" by a school.........:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[henfan]

Henfan, I thought that the 2000 proposal was dead before UR moved (that the SoCon schools had nixed it). UR had previously inquired about the A10 prior to American leaving, but then went back later...

Regardless, if UR had a different president I think that league could have been pulled off. I personally wish that it had occurred. Would have been a great football conference.

DT, nope. UR's A-10 announcement caught everyone by surprise. I have hardcopy articles circa April 2000 quoting CAA sources, indicating that the CAA expansion plan was literally days away from being announced when UR pulled out. UR was the lynchpin in the expansion plan (certainly for UD, Furman and VMI.) From what I've heard from UD and read elsewhere, that was the primary cause of some initial hard feelings. I'll try to remember to locate the article and post quotes here.

In retrospect, I think UR's move really helped UD in the long run. Nothing against the SoCon schools who were going to come aboard, but I'd much prefer the CAA's current profile. I think the wider footprint and closer affiliation with more public schools better suits the UD. Personally, I enjoy our exisiting athletic rivalries with schools in New England and Virginia.

[henfan]

I also have heard that other schools were then being mentioned, all very dissimilar to UR, I cannot recall who they were at this time.

Spdram, many of the schools involved in the Spring 2000 expansion plan were not at all dissimilar to UR (Furman, Davidson, Wofford) and most had established rivalries with the Spiders (VMI, FU, Davidson, UD, and the Citadel.) In retrospect, UR thought it would be moving into a conference that would raise the profile of its hoops programs and provide a safe, stabile home for FB. It's hard to fault UR for making the move, though it may not have worked out as expected (especially with the emergence of CAA hoops and the death of A-10 FB.) Hindsight's 20-20.

[OL FU]

In 2000 I was very out of touch with Furman sports. ( In fact I was out of touch with anything that didn't revolve around a three mile radius of Grand Central Station)
How serious was the potential move of the small schools from the SoCon.

In some respects, I have always thought Furman (the administration) would love to be in a small school conference. On the other hand, Furman has been part of the SoCon forever and moving to the CAA would not have changed the conference profile all that much. It just seems difficult to believe.

[Fordham]

Anyway, I agree that American leaving had to do with pitiful showings in Basketball. The CAA has always been a stronger league than the Patriot for Men's Basketball. (Thus, the Spider faithful almost ***** a brick when current Pres. tried to move them to the PL)


I thought that Richmond was only considering the PL as an football-only affiliate v. an all-sports member, no?

The brick *****ting was strictly related to moving the football program to non-scholly status I believe.

[bostonspider]

Richmond's move to the PL would have been for football only with the end of the A10 football league. As to when UR started to play I-AA football, it was the 1984 Season. 1983 was the last year with a I-A schedule, including Toledo, Ohio, Wake, Southern Miss and Va. Tech. UR played 3 seasons as a I-A independent, before realizing that UR stadium was not large enough to stay I-A, and the city would not allow the stadium to be expanded, so UR followed W&M's lead and moved down.

[henfan]

As to when UR started to play I-AA football, it was the 1984 Season.

BSpider, UR's official date for reclassification was Sept. 1, 1982, not 1984, as verified on Page 5 of the following link, and as indicated by both Ralph and me:
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_video/NCAANewsArchive/1982/19820215.pdf

You're correct that UR did continue to fulfill its contracts with many I-A schools in '82 and '83. They also played several I-AA schools during the '82-'83 timeframe, such as VMI, Boston U., North Texas St., W&M, JMU, Colgate and even D-II Central Florida.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Very correct on the football affiliate issue with respect to the PL, but I distinctly remember going to a UR bball game when students were protesting and many of them seemed to indicate a fear that basketball could potentially follow in the near future if the admin continued on its track. My fault on the inaccuracy! :o

[DTSpider]

I know that pretty much all UR grads would have preferred that proposed league towhat we have now. As mentioned before, one bad apple can ruin the pie and UR has had one pretty terrible president.

This is the same president who told the football players that they were a waste of money and were substandard academically. Also the same president who has said no UR grad would have the ability to be a college professor to a room full of professors, about 10 of whom were UR grads.

[spdram]

DT my seats have been right behind the President's box since 2000 and you cannot be talking about the same President that has not seen an entire UR football game since 2000 (in fact I think he has been at less than 5 games since 2000 for any period), or you couldn't be talking about the President that said there were no good as football players anyway. Or are you getting confused be the member of his administration that said their job would have been a failure if UR still had football at all when they left. Thank goodness the school rallied and ridded ourselves of these cancers. I will celebrate on July 1 when it is final. I do believe the new President understands the importance and value of athletics. I for one am sorry for any pain caused to another instituion by the way we left the CAA, but anyone that knows the battles that have been going on at UR understands it only took a few power hungry people to cause the mess. It can happen at any school, lesson to fans of other schools --- NEVER let your guard down! :o :nono: :mad:

[ccd494]

The CAA then approached the America East in the late Summer of 2000 with a deal that would have effectively killed the CAA. The AEC would have absorbed ODU, W&M, JMU, Virginia Commonwealth and George Mason. That vote was killed by Vermont, Hartford and Boston U. in the Fall of 2000. Delaware, Hofstra, Towson and Drexel, all of whom strongly supported the AEC alliance with the CAA, announced their departure from the AEC in Dec. 2000.

Ahhh UVM and BU... two schools whose sense of self importance vastly outweigh their actual importance.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

DT my seats have been right behind the President's box since 2000 and you cannot be talking about the same President that has not seen an entire UR football game since 2000 (in fact I think he has been at less than 5 games since 2000 for any period), or you couldn't be talking about the President that said there were no good as football players anyway. Or are you getting confused be the member of his administration that said their job would have been a failure if UR still had football at all when they left. Thank goodness the school rallied and ridded ourselves of these cancers. I will celebrate on July 1 when it is final. I do believe the new President understands the importance and value of athletics. I for one am sorry for any pain caused to another instituion by the way we left the CAA, but anyone that knows the battles that have been going on at UR understands it only took a few power hungry people to cause the mess. It can happen at any school, lesson to fans of other schools --- NEVER let your guard down! :o :nono: :mad:

Great post! :hurray:

I often get frustrated with President Rose at JMU. I just feel like he also doesn't seem to have the passion for athletics like some other colleges do. Just look at what happened to our basketball program. Our football program has thrived IN SPITE of the JMU admin. I think ASU's Pres. goes a bit overboard, but you gotta love his enthusiasm.

Likewise, I hope most CAA people don't hold grudges over alumni from UR so much as their administration. It's only when UR fans show the air of "We are better than everyone" kind of attitude like UVA often does that we begin to show more belligerence... I think.

[carney2]

All of this is SO confusing. Can I buy a program with names and numbers? I'm gonna start drinking early - and often - today.

[henfan]

I mentioned older hardcopy articles I had in an earlier post. Here's an extract of some of the text from them. It confirms that The Citadel, Davidson, Furman, VMI and Wofford were on the Spring 2000 expansion plan before Richmond pulled out of the deal. I failed to mention previously that Charleston and UNC-Greensboro were also in on the plan.

The Richmond Times article referred to was by John O'Connor from April 2000. I can't locate my copy of it.


SOUTHERN CONFERENCE LOOKING FOR EXPANSION
by Tommy Bowman
Winston-Salem Journal
May 29, 2000

...The Colonial Athletic Association, looking to replenish its dwindling number of members, hopes to lure schools away from the Southern Conferece...

Tom Yeager, the commissioner of the CAA, said that his league was close to wrapping up plans for expansion and addition of football before Richmond announced last week that it was leaving the CAA for full membership in the Atlantic 10...

The Richmond Times-Dispatch reported that the CAA's plan included six current Southern Conference schools- The Citadel, College of Charleston, Davidson, Furman, UNC Greensboro and VMI...

A source in the Southern Conference said that Furman was entertaining the idea of joining the CAA if football was offered, feeling that the Colonial provided a better academic fit, and that VMI was interested in joining fellow Virginia schools George Mason, James Madison, Richmond, Old Dominion, VCU and William & Mary...

Charleston, Furman and Wofford all have said that they have been contacted by the CAA...


HENS NOT READY TO SWITCH; FAVOR AMERICA EAST OVER THE COLONIAL
BY Kevin Tresolini
Wilmington News-Journal
May 23, 2000

...The Colonial had eyed Delaware in its expansion plans, which became more pressing when American University and East Carolina left the league, trimming CAA membership to seven, six from Virginia...
Viriginia newspapers have reported the CAA is now seriously considering adding football, which it does not presently sponsor, in a 14- or 16-school league that would be more enticing to prospective members. Delaware, Villanova and Southern Conference members Furman, VMI, The Citadel and Wofford are potential targets..."


CAA COMMISSIONER: 'IT'S GOING TO GET INTERESTING'
by Kevin Tresolini
Wilmington News-Journal
April 30, 2001

...CAA Commissioner Tom Yeager: "We were basically looking south [toward a merger with the Southern Conference last spring] because of football, though Delaware was still in the mix. It was kind of coming together, but it blew up when Richmond left. That was the low point, because it was such a feeling of betrayal. [Richmond] was one of the big proponents of talking to other private schools, like Davidson and Furman. We never saw it coming..."

[OL FU]

:eek: :eek:
Like I said, I was too busy to pay attention at the time but I would never have guessed.

Thanks for looking it up.

[DTSpider]

Thanks for the articles. It helps clear up some of the rumors put out by the propaganda machine.

Cooper really had his dagger working then stabbing backs up & down the eastern seaboard.

The stories of what he did at UR are remarkable. Here are a few:

- Eliminated the provost position effectively removing the ability to oversee the president
- 2 years later hiring a new provost who's a friend and giving the provest power over the faculty hiring/firing
- Firing faculty & staff who criticized him
- Telling the faculty & staff that they were below par academically
- Telling students that they were holding the unversity back
- Telling alumni that they were too lazy to be successful
- Eliminating the education major because "teaching elementary through high school is a waste of ability"
- Telling students that there are not any good jobs in Richmond (home to 9 fortune 500 Companies by the way)
- Telling Richmond businesses that they were not as good as those in NYC and should not attempt to hire any of the good UR grads
- Raised tuition to $40,000 because "UR was too cheap" and therefore alumni wouldn't donate
- Telling the Baptists (who founded the school) that they were not welcome anymore
- Eliminating traditions (eliminated the coordinate living system which was unique to UR & 2 other schools)

I could keep going as well. These are all the things he did prior to the whole "mush" debate, PL debacle, pushing incident and others right before his end.

[dbackjon]

Thanks for the articles. It helps clear up some of the rumors put out by the propaganda machine.

Cooper really had his dagger working then stabbing backs up & down the eastern seaboard.

The stories of what he did at UR are remarkable. Here are a few:

- Eliminated the provost position effectively removing the ability to oversee the president
- 2 years later hiring a new provost who's a friend and giving the provest power over the faculty hiring/firing
- Firing faculty & staff who criticized him
- Telling the faculty & staff that they were below par academically
- Telling students that they were holding the unversity back
- Telling alumni that they were too lazy to be successful
- Eliminating the education major because "teaching elementary through high school is a waste of ability"
- Telling students that there are not any good jobs in Richmond (home to 9 fortune 500 Companies by the way)
- Telling Richmond businesses that they were not as good as those in NYC and should not attempt to hire any of the good UR grads
- Raised tuition to $40,000 because "UR was too cheap" and therefore alumni wouldn't donate
- Telling the Baptists (who founded the school) that they were not welcome anymore
- Eliminating traditions (eliminated the coordinate living system which was unique to UR & 2 other schools)

I could keep going as well. These are all the things he did prior to the whole "mush" debate, PL debacle, pushing incident and others right before his end.

So how did he survive for so long?

[bostonspider]

Basically he was able to stay for so long by working with a few board members to effectively stack the Board of Trustees with people that were in agreement with him. He also was able to stay the course pretty well on the school's skyrocketing endowment and pretty high academic rankings. It took a revolt by the alumni to get him to step down. There will be a fair amount of changes under the new president Edward Ayers. I can tell you most alumni are pretty excited. Not sure what it will mean athletically, but reaching out to our VA bretheren should be expected.

[DTSpider]

Cooper was smart at the game. He brought in his guys and fleeced some others based on the "give this guy time approach". He would call Board meetings and not give enough time for all the Board members to make it, but conveniently the group he was cousy with was there. Slowly others started to resign and he gained more control. He drove away one of the Robins children, whose father is the only reason the school is still open.

Plus, when you only have 7 previous presidents in the schools history (back to 1830), you've shown that you like to give people time.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

The CAA-UR history is one of my favorites/ Thanks for bringing it to the surface. As an A10er, watching plenty of changes in the 90's to our league, the CAA developments were always on the radar...especially when VA Tech left (miss ya Ace Custis) and Richmond was on deck.

[JMU1992]

If I remember correctly, JMU, ODU and UR were being courted by the A-10, but they decided to recommit to the CAA to make the league stronger. Then UR decided to leave anyway. JMU fans already hated UR, that just made it even worse.

[dukie]

I had a conversation with Tom Yeager back when all of this broke so this comes straight from the horses mouth. He said "I had the contracts prepared and was three hours from having signatures from every President when I received a call from UR informing me they were leaving for the A10". He went on to talk about how he felt betrayed by A10. How AD Miller was very involved with the formation of the new conference. Miller sat in on AD meetings and never hinted once that UR was not on board. Davidson, Wofford and Furman were all schools that UR wanted. Yeager was hand picked by former AD Boone to run the CAA when it was formed and UR had a lot of influence with the CAA administration. The CAA office is a few miles from the UR campus. UR leaving the CAA is very much like when Irsay took the Colts from Baltimore. They backed a truck up in the middle of the night and said bye bye. I have several UR friends and many of the older alumni hate the move to the A10. Home attendance for UR has never reached what it was when they were in the CAA. Of their top 20 games attendance wise, not one of them is an A10 contest. Being the capital of Va., there are many alums from CAA schools here and Richmond is also an easy car ride from JMU, ODU, W&M and Mason. The UR admin. blew it when they moved to the A10. Basketball got one at large bid to the NCAA tourney and the olympic sports have suffered greatly. All programs are down at UR since the move. The men's bball success came with CAA players not what is there now. I think most UR alum would vote to come back to the CAA if the opportunity was there and don't rule out a move back in the future.

[Go...gate]

It was brought up in another thread but figure it should stand on its own. A little history lesson before the onslaught of opinions:

CAA BIOGRAPHY (from the CAA website http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8500&ATCLID=319557)

The CAA traces its roots back to 1983 when three of its current members- George Mason, James Madison, and William and Mary - were aligned with East Carolina University, the United States Naval Academy and the University of Richmond as a basketball league (ECAC South). During the next two years, the league added 11 sports, acquired two new members (UNC Wilmington and American University) and decided to form a new association. The transformation from ECAC South to CAA took place on June 6, 1985. By the fall of 1986, the league gained automatic bids to NCAA Championships in men’s basketball, soccer, baseball and women’s basketball and formed an officials’ bureau. Old Dominion became a member of the CAA in 1991-92 and Virginia Commonwealth University joined the conference prior to the 1995-96 season. University of Delaware, Drexel University, Hofstra University and Towson University in 2001. Georgia State University and Northeastern University became members of the conference on July 1, 2005.

Now, for the opinion section based on what I've gathered, but will have a VA bias since that's where most of my info comes from.

UR & W&M left the SoCon over academic concerns and became independents. UR was playing 1A football, W&M 1AA football (moved down at the split) and JMU played 1AA (a relative newcomer but with lofty ambitions) . In the early 1980's W&M was interested and almost joined the Patriot League. UR & JMU convinced W&M to instead join the ECAC along with GMU, Navy & ECU for basketball. The viewpoint was that these were similar schools and kept intact some long standing rivalries (UR, W&M, ECU, Navy) while building for future ones (JMU, GMU, etc.). UNCW was added for ECU and American came aboad to form the conference in 1985. By this point, UR's had held the infamous secret board meeting where the decision to move to 1AA was made. Of course, the CAA was a basketball league at heart, but ambitions started for football among JMU, W&M, & UR. After David Robinson left Navy, they felt it was best to move to the Patriot League. ODU was brought in to replace Navy, and was a great fit. When the Metro conference imploded VCU was added. After witnessing the basketball focused Metro collapse, the pressure to add football schools to stabalize the conference grew. American always missed the rivalry with Navy and without football was concerned about the direction of the CAA (based on rumors below).

Now, this is where the fun rumors begin. As I understand it, the CAA was courting Davidson (UR & W&M missed their old SoCon buddy) and UD (a good fit) and wanted another school to get to 6 football schools to be able to take over the Yankee. Now, who to add as the other school? I'd heard VMI was the choice, but didn't want to leave the SoCon. Davidson however, never brought back scholarships. The plan was fizzling. American bolted the CAA for the Patriot League (breaking their commitment & creating a legal battle). Rumors was that W&M was also thinking about the PL.

UR's former president supposedly assured W&M not to look elsewhere. ODU was offered an A10 spot and turned it down. In comes UR's new president. He called the A10 and the A10 wasn't interested in UR (courting other options). UR committed to the CAA to help look to build elsewhere to replace American. Plans became to add UD, Towson, Drexel and not Davidson. UR's president decided that these schools were too different from UR as they are publics. UR's president called back the A10 and when offered a spot accepted it.

Hence the fallout. I have no problem with fans from JMU & especially W&M being upset over how it happened. I didn't like it either, but don't blame UR fans. We've finally gotten rid of the source.

Others can add comments and/or correct as they see fit. As mentioned, the rumors were what I heard, but I do not assume to know everything and know that there's probably a different twist among every fan base.

A great post. I had no idea of the American situation, which is fascinating.

[Go...gate]

Of course, all of those things were nicer than what he said about UR students and alums : smh :

Sounds like George Langdon of Colgate, who openly derided our students, alums and athletes at various times.

[Go...gate]

I think you are a little off on the two school's relative success

UR went to the big dance in 84 (beat Auburn), 86 (beat Rider), 88 (Sweet Sixteen, G.Tech and Indiana), 90, 91 (beat Syracuse), 98 (beat USC), and 2004.

JMU went in 81 (beat Georgetown), 82 (beat OSU) and 83 (Beat WVU), and 1994.

UR's success is both from the 80's and also recent, though not recent enough obviously....

You beat Rider in 1984 at the Palestra.

[Go...gate]

Richmond's move to the PL would have been for football only with the end of the A10 football league. As to when UR started to play I-AA football, it was the 1984 Season. 1983 was the last year with a I-A schedule, including Toledo, Ohio, Wake, Southern Miss and Va. Tech. UR played 3 seasons as a I-A independent, before realizing that UR stadium was not large enough to stay I-A, and the city would not allow the stadium to be expanded, so UR followed W&M's lead and moved down.
There is some documentary evidence that this is correct, because Rutgers played UR in 1982 and Colgate played UR in 1983 and press guides and programs of the day (which I collect) identified them as a I-A school. Colgate played them in '84 and Rutgers played them in '85 and they were identified as I-AA.