Tennesse radio host spews crap...

[TheTribeHasSpoken]

http://www.caazone.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=59904

So pretty much this guy says the SoCon is the best conf. in FCS, and that ETSU would get killed in it. He says they should join JMU in the Southern Conference.

WOW.

[youwouldno]

I like the JMU posters comparing CAA and SoCon teams (#1 vs #1, #2 v #2, etc) without considering how much bigger the CAA is...

[citdog]

He's right the CAA does suck.

[TxState_GO_CATS!]

http://www.caazone.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=59904

So pretty much this guy says the SoCon is the best conf. in FCS, and that ETSU would get killed in it. He says they should join JMU in the Southern Conference.

WOW.


hahaha, love the avatar! k, maybe i'm a little late...

[th0m]

I like the JMU posters comparing CAA and SoCon teams (#1 vs #1, #2 v #2, etc) without considering how much bigger the CAA is...

Actually, the fact that we are bigger only underlines the feat that the CAA is stronger, since our bottom dwellers are better than the Socon's (as was posted on that board).

[JohnStOnge]

In my opinion, top to bottom, the conference we've known as the A-10 and I guess now is going to be the CAA has been tougher in recent years than the Southern Conference. Sagarin's power ratings "think" that too. For 1998 - 2006, the A-10 was rated higher than the Southern at the end of 7 of the 9 years. I'd say that, at best, the Southern has recently been been the fourth best conference top to bottom over time behind the A-10, Gateway, and Big Sky.

Even the Southland has been rated higher than the Southern at the end of 5 of the 9 seasons 1998 - 2006. So there's some indication that, over time during that period, there might be an argument for putting the Southern at #5.

I'm talking top to bottom now. I realize that the Southern Conference teams have won four national titles during the time frame. But there have been some very weak teams in that conference too. Very unlikely, I think, that this guy's belief that the Southern is a tougher conference than the A-10/CAA is true.

[Mountaineer]

Pretty much dead on John. :bawling: Not sure how anyone looking objectively at FCS conferences can make a case for the SoCon being near the top. Now our top 3 or 4 teams can go head to head with anyone, but our bad teams are really bad. :o :(

[*****]

http://www.caazone.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=59904
So pretty much this guy says the SoCon is the best conf. in FCS, and that ETSU would get killed in it. He says they should join JMU in the Southern Conference. WOW.So? Every CAA person says they are the top FCS conference so why the WOW when the winningest conference in FCS playoff history says they are the best?

Last year the GWFC was the GPI best. :twocents:
2006: GWFC
2005: GFC
2004: A-10
2003: BSC
2002: GFC

[edited for my GWFC in 2005 mistake]

[BDKJMU]

Here's the brekadown for IAA conference Sagarin power rankings. Excluding the IA independent, in 06' the A-10 was the 2nd highest ranked IAA conference, behind the 11 IA and the Great West. Here's the breakdown for the 10 full schlorship IAA conferences, plus IVY, Patriot, and partial schlorship NEC.
1: Great West
2. A-10
3: Gateway
4. Big Sky
5. Southern
6. Ivy League
7. Big South
8. Southland
9. Patriot
10. OVC
11 Southwestern
12. MEAC
13. Northeast
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc06.htm

05' top 10 went:
1. Gateway (ranked ahead of IA Sunbelt)
2. Big Sky
3. Great West
4. Southern
5. Southland
6. A-10
7. Ivy
8. Patriot
9. OVC
10. MEAC
11. Big South
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc05.htm

04' top 10 went:
1. A-10 (ahead of IA CUSA, Sunbelt, & Mid American)
2. Great West (1st year GWFC as football conference)
3. Big Sky (ahead of IA Mid American)
4. Southland
5. Ivy League
6. Southern
7. Patriot
8. Gateway
9. OVC
10.MEAC
11. Big South
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc04.htm

03' top 10 went:
1. Gateway
2. Big Sky
3. A-10 (all ahead of IA Sun Belt)
4. Southland
5. Southern
6. IVY
7. Patriot
8. OVC
9. MEAC
10. Big South
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc03.htm

02' top 5 went:
1. Gateway
2. A-10
3. Big Sky
4. Southland
5. Southern
6. Patriot
7. OVC
8. IVY
9. MEAC
10. Southwestern
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc02.htm

The A-10 has been ranked ahead of the Southern 4 of the last 5 years. Over that same 5 yr period twice the A-10 was ranked as the top IAA conference. The Southern never was. The avg finish over the last 5 years:
1. Great West 2.0
2. A-10 2.8
Gateway 2.8
Big Sky 2.8
5. Southern 5
Southland 5
7. IVY 6.2
8. Patriot 7.4
9. OVC 8.6
10. Big South 9.8 (03-06')
11 Southwestern 11.2

So this shows the A-10 in a 3 way tie for 2nd best conference over the last 5 years if you include the Great West, which has only been around for 3 years, which is in 1st, with the Southern tied for 5th. So send a copy of this to that guy in Tennessee and tell him to stuff this in his pipe and smoke it.

[Hansel]

(ranked ahead of IA Great West)
.

The Great West is IAA/FCS

[*****]

Here's the brekadown for IAA conference Sagarin power rankings...Sagarin refuses to rate all teams that the FCS has faced so take his ranks with a big grain of salt. Hmmm, wonder why you didn't include the GWFC???? :rolleyes: Sag does okay but he is far from the last word and is definetly flawed in regards to the FCS.

2006 Sag:
11 GREAT WEST (AA)= 60.82 60.24 ( 12) 5
14 ATLANTIC 10 (AA)= 56.48 56.97 ( 14) 12
15 GATEWAY (AA)= 55.15 54.19 ( 15) 8
16 BIG SKY (AA)= 53.48 53.39 ( 16) 9
17 SOUTHERN (AA)= 49.59 50.71 ( 17) 8
18 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 48.21 48.50 ( 18) 8
19 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 43.34 42.96 ( 20) 5
20 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 43.30 43.20 ( 19) 7
21 PATRIOT LEAGUE (AA)= 41.92 41.30 ( 21) 7
22 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 41.11 40.82 ( 22) 9
23 SOUTHWESTERN (AA)= 38.41 38.24 ( 23) 10
24 MID-EASTERN (AA)= 37.92 37.21 ( 24) 9
25 NORTHEAST (AA)= 33.36 32.92 ( 25) 8
26 I-AA INDEPENDENTS (AA)= 31.46 32.18 ( 26) 4
27 PIONEER (AA)= 27.90 29.69 ( 27) 8
28 METRO ATLANTIC (AA)= 19.03 19.84 ( 28) 5

[BDKJMU]

The Great West is IAA/FCS

Hansel: oops, I goofed. I got the Great West confused with the former IA Big West, which folded after 00' season. I edited my post to show that over the last 3 years the GWFC has been around, the GWFC has had the best avg Sagarin ranking of all IAA conferences over the last 5 seasons, although this may be a little flawed since they've only been around for 3 seasons and I was comparing the past 5 seasons, and there's only 5 teams in the conference.

[BDKJMU]

Hmmm, wonder why you didn't include the GWFC????


Ralph- I goofed. See my reply to Hansel.

[*****]

Ralph- I goofed. See my reply to Hansel.Okay, you know this stuff fascinates me so...on the last five years:

GPI average conference rating:
1 Great West Football Conference 27.56*
2 Atlantic 10 Conference 29.54
3 Gateway Football Conference 30.89
4 Big Sky Conference 31.09
5 Southland Conference 38.91
6 Southern Conference 39.40
7 Ivy League 45.13
8 Patriot League 51.81
9 Ohio Valley Conference 54.94
10 Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference 62.18
11 Big South Conference 65.36
12 Southwestern Athletic Conference 68.90
13 Pioneer Football League 77.25
14 Northeast Conference 78.10
15 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference 88.04

GPI average conference ranking:
1 Gateway Football Conference 2.60
2 Great West Football Conference 2.67*
3 Atlantic 10 Conference 2.80
4 Big Sky Conference 3.00
5 Southland Conference 4.60
6 Southern Conference 5.20
7 Ivy League 6.00
8 Patriot League 7.80
9 Ohio Valley Conference 8.60
10 Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference 10.00
11 Big South Conference 10.40
12 Southwestern Athletic Conference 11.60
13T Pioneer Football League 13.80
13T Northeast Conference 13.80
15 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference 15.40

*- Three years of data

[citdog]

Some guy who roots for the hens told me that the GPI was bs! Can't recall his name right now..............:D xlolx

[*****]

Some guy who roots for the hens told me that the GPI was bs!Yeah it's all BS if you disagree with the outcome. xlolx

[youwouldno]

The goal in FCS football is to win championships. That's what the SoCon does. I agree that in a world where computers tell you who is better, the A10/CAA dominates the SoCon, and even in the playoffs A10 teams have scored a good number of wins over SoCon teams. But at the end of the day, the SoCon produces a lot of elite teams, and so while the weak ones drag down the computer ratings, the playoffs show who is for real. One reason there are bottom-dwellers in the SoCon is that the top SoCon teams are good year-in, year-out. In the A10/CAA, it's more cyclical. Which one is better depends on who you root for.

[pete4256]

Well, I'm not about to say that the SoCon is the dominant FCS conference, but I think the argument that it's no better than fourth or fifth (on paper) is pretty absurd. I'm only starting from 1983, but take a look at NC participants since then (former and current members of the Socon in bold).

Dissing the SoCon reminds me of Buddy Ryan's famous quote about why he released future NFL HoF-er Chris Carter: "All he does is catch touchdowns."

1983: So. Illinois def. Western Carolina
1984: Mt. State def. LA Tech
1985: Geogia Southern def. Furman
1986: Georgia Southern def. Arkansas State
1987: NE LA State def. Marshall
1988: Furman def. Georgia Southern
1989: Georgia Southern def. Stephen F. Austin
1990: Georgia Southern def. Nevada
1991: Youngstown State def. Marshall
1992: Marshall def. Youngstown State
1993: Youngstown State def. Marshall
1994: Youngstown State def. Boise St.
1995: Montana def. Marshall
1996: Marshall def. Montana
1997: Youngstown St. def. McNeese St.
1998: UMass def. Georgia Southern
1999: Georgia Southern def. Youngstown State
2000: Georgia Southern def. Montana
2001: Montana def. Furman
2002: Western Ky def. McNeese St.
2003: Delaware def. Colgate
2004: James Madison def. Montana
2005: App St. def. N. Iowa
2006: App St. def. UMass

In my rationale, a conference whose former and current members have provided 20 out of the 48 NC game participants since 1983 and have accounted for 11 of 24 Nat'l Champions over that time.

To me, that means one can't legitimately stick the SoCon in the doldrums of a subdivision which prides itself on its playoff system rather than media popularity and computer rankings.

To those whose frame of reference remains the 2002-2004 time period when AGS was getting underway, I suggest you broaden out a little bit.

[BDKJMU]

Marshall counted as 8 of those 20. Still, 12 of 48 for the current members is an impressive number, more than any other league. However, the past is the past, and I don't think when talking about which conference is stronger in the here and now you can go back more than 5 or so years.

[CCU97]

If talking about the here and now BDKJMU shouldn't the range only be 3 years back then since players 4 years back may no longer be on a team? After all we are talking about here and now not recent past.....All I know is the Big South isn't the top conference...and no team from the Big South has won a championship...so I don't have a dog in this fight....but logic is logic....Not that the strongest conference matters any way that you look at it...after all no conference has ever won a championship....just a team from a conference....:twocents:

[pete4256]

I think when you talk about PROGRAMS, a little broader perspective is necessary.

For instance, Delaware appears on that list just once, and they're probably a top 5 or 6 I-AA/FCS program.

I mean, just because Alabama hasn't done much lately, does that mean they're a worthless program?

The main point I'm trying to make is that year in and year out, teams from the SoCon are in the NC game. That sinks the whole "SoCon is mediocre" perspective.

Since I've seen my share of UTC games, I understand that the bottom of the Socon is pretty weak.

And of course my count is a little hypothetical, considering Marshall's no longer in the conference and that much of GSU's success came when they were independent. But I think when one says, "The ACC is strong," it's fair for them to consider Miami.

I've always been surprised at the SoCon bashing and the anti-SoCon bias that passes for fact on AGS. It's strange to even have to defend a conference with the SoCon's playoff history.

Back to the radio guy. he was just voicing an uneducated opinion. Based on ETSU's history, though, he was right. When they were in the SoCon, the Bucs got killed every year.

Obviously, he didn't know much about the FCS.

[Eaglegus2]

How many times has JMU & Georgia Southern played each other?

What is the record for those games?

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Mr. C]

Hansel: oops, I goofed. I got the Great West confused with the former IA Big West, which folded after 00' season. I edited my post to show that over the last 3 years the GWFC has been around, the GWFC has had the best avg Sagarin ranking of all IAA conferences over the last 5 seasons, although this may be a little flawed since they've only been around for 3 seasons and I was comparing the past 5 seasons, and there's only 5 teams in the conference.
The Big West didn't fold. It just quit sponsoring football after so many schools either moved to the WAC (UNLV, Fresno State, San Jose State, San Diego State — who then moved to the MWC), or dropped football (Long Beach State, Cal State-Fullerton, Pacific). Used to cover Big West (formerly known at the PCAA) football back in the day.

[OldAggieAlum]

One of the Great West schools, Cal Poly, is a member of the Big West for other sports. UC Davis will also be joining the Big West next year.

[Mr. C]

Cal Poly wasn't a Big West member during the conference's football-playing days. The Big West was always a basketball-first conference, though the loss of schools like UNLV, Fresno State and New Mexico State hurt it in that regard, too. I remember when the Big West used to get three bids to the NCAA basketball tournament.