Socon Week 10 power rankings and pick em

[Reign of Terrier]

1. Furman (needs one win to reach the 7 D1 win playoff mark)
2. Wofford (all but clinched a playoff spot this week)
3. Samford (Hatcher is an excellent con man)
4. Western (don't know how good they'll be going forward without Adams)
5. Mercer (could spoil Western or Samford's season)
6. Citadel (probably won't make the playoffs, but can put themselves back in the conversation with wins against Western and Furman)
7. ETSU (plays great at home, but not quite there in the trenches)
8. Chattanooga (they got a win in conference play that wasn't VMI; still have problems in the trenches)
9. VMI (really bad mkay)

Chattanooga @ Wofford (it's senior day and after three weeks of not playing our best, I think Wofford gets it done in a non-heart-rate-racing fashion)

Western Carolina @ The Citadel: I'm picking the Citadel in the upset. I don't think Western has the offense with Adams out and they have bad run defense problems. That's not what you need against a very good Citadel defense.

Samford @ Mercer: I think Samford bounces back after last week. It'll be a good game as Mercer has a solid defense and a steadily improved offense, but Hodges is too good to have a game as bad as this one two weeks in a row

VMI @ ETSU: ETSU plays great at home; 3-2 with the two losses coming by a score each. VMI won't overwhelm them in the trenches like other teams have this year. They have a good QB and VMI has a solid defense, but VMI doesn't have the offense to score enough to win.

Furman is off and I think that will help them prep for The Citadel

[PaladinFan]

Real dangerous weekend for WCU and Samford. Still in good position, but cannot afford to lose another one and have to deal with a couple tough teams.

I think Wofford needs to be really concerned with UTC. The Mocs have a lot of talent and Wofford tends to play to their competition.

[kdinva]

T1) Wofford
T1) Furman
3) WCU
4) Samford
5) Mercer
6) The Citadel
T7) UTC
t7) ETSU
9) VMI


Wofford 28; UTC 14
ETSU 20; VMI 14
Mercer 23; Samford 21
The Citadel 24; WCU 21

[Reign of Terrier]

The thing with Chattanooga is that they aren't quite at the point where they can score 20 points without help from the defense.

As inconsistent Wofford has been of offense, we're consistently getting beyond that 20 point mark. Now, next week may be the game Chattanooga puts it together, but right now that seems to be their problem.

I just think Wofford has no reason to look past Chattanooga and every incentive to do better after 2 straight weeks where mistakes either cost us or almost cost us a game. It's senior day, we want to keep pace in the socon standings, etc.

It's worth mentioning that the YT quasi-statistical bull**** algorithm predicted Wofford beating ETSU, on average, by a score of 28-21. I was hoping we'd overperform and was disappointed because we were definitely on the razor's edge of doing so. For the Chattanooga game, it predicts 35-26 wofford.

I don't think Wofford will score that much. If Wofford wins it'll probably be in the 31-17 range so long as we don't turn the ball over and put Chatt in a good position. If Chatt wins it'll be by a similar margin as today.

I just don't think Chattanooga will be able to run the ball like they did today against us.

[SCPALADIN]

1) Wofford
2) Furman
3) WCU
4) Samford
5) The Citadel
6) Mercer
T7) UTC
t7) ETSU
9) VMI


Wofford 24; UTC 21
ETSU 37; VMI 13
Mercer 27; Samford 17
The Citadel 31; WCU 17

[FurmanWins!!]

Great time for the bye for Dins to get healthy for stretch run

Just going to sit back and enjoy the other 4 games this week, should be fun

[FUBeAR]

5) The Citadel
6) Mercer


5) The Citadel
6) Mercer

typos?

[longtimemocfan]

The thing with Chattanooga is that they aren't quite at the point where they can score 20 points without help from the defense.

As inconsistent Wofford has been of offense, we're consistently getting beyond that 20 point mark. Now, next week may be the game Chattanooga puts it together, but right now that seems to be their problem.

I just think Wofford has no reason to look past Chattanooga and every incentive to do better after 2 straight weeks where mistakes either cost us or almost cost us a game. It's senior day, we want to keep pace in the socon standings, etc.

It's worth mentioning that the YT quasi-statistical bull**** algorithm predicted Wofford beating ETSU, on average, by a score of 28-21. I was hoping we'd overperform and was disappointed because we were definitely on the razor's edge of doing so. For the Chattanooga game, it predicts 35-26 wofford.

I don't think Wofford will score that much. If Wofford wins it'll probably be in the 31-17 range so long as we don't turn the ball over and put Chatt in a good position. If Chatt wins it'll be by a similar margin as today.

I just don't think Chattanooga will be able to run the ball like they did today against us.

We’ve been running the ball ok regardless of who we’ve played recently. I’m not concerned about that part of the game as we have held our own along the line of scrimmage. I’m hoping by this game the coaching staff has figured out a little more about defending the TO. We had a lot of TFL against The Citadel that helped a lot. We were missing 2 DB’s and our leading tackler against The Citadel that we got back today. We’re a different team the last 2 weeks.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

I was 1-3 in today's games. The Citadel keeping the Silver Shako was the only bright light in my predictions. Here's where I have it after today. Numbers in parenthesis indicates how many wins they need to become playoff eligible against number of D1 games.

1) Wofford (IN) - Survived a spirited effort on the road
2) Furman (1 of 2) - Came away with a big win
3) Western Carolina (1 of 3) - Lost their QB in a hard loss
4) Samford (2 of 3) - Went from knocking off the top dog to seeing their playoff chances in danger
5) The Citadel (OUT*) - Kept the Silver Shako
6) Mercer (OUT*) - Rested up for next week's matchup
7) Chattanooga (OUT) - Pulled out a shocker of a win
8) ETSU (OUT) - Had nothing to be ashamed of
9) VMI (OUT) - One week closer to basketball season

Predictions
Chattanooga @ Wofford - Terriers send off their seniors in grand style
Western Carolina @ The Citadel - Bulldogs come up with a another win at home
Samford @ Mercer (Game of the Week) - Bears claw out a close one
VMI @ ETSU - Bucs take care of the Keydets

Path to the Southern Conference Championship
Wofford - becomes the presumptive champions with win this week, clinches autobid this week with win and Samford loss
Furman - needs to win out and prays to God Wofford lays an egg against Chattanooga and VMI to clinch the autobid
Western Carolina - needs to win out and prays to God Wofford and Furman lays an egg the next two weeks to clinch the autobid
Samford - needs to win out and prays to God Wofford lays an egg to either Chattanooga or VMI to clinch the autobid

[youwouldno]

Furman 'only' needs to win out and have Wofford lose to either UTC or VMI, not both. That would leave Furman as the only SoCon team with 1 league loss.

[furpal87]

Also Wofford can't clinch in mathematical fashion this week since they would need us to lose to "bye" this week to clinch, now beating Chatt means all they would have to do is beat VMI to win..so this is the last chance to see them lose.

[bonarae]

Wofford
The Citadel
Mercer
ETSU

[SCPALADIN]

I was 1-3 in today's games. The Citadel keeping the Silver Shako was the only bright light in my predictions. Here's where I have it after today. Numbers in parenthesis indicates how many wins they need to become playoff eligible against number of D1 games.

1) Wofford (IN) - Survived a spirited effort on the road
2) Furman (1 of 2) - Came away with a big win
3) Western Carolina (1 of 3) - Lost their QB in a hard loss
4) Samford (2 of 3) - Went from knocking off the top dog to seeing their playoff chances in danger
5) The Citadel (OUT*) - Kept the Silver Shako
6) Mercer (OUT*) - Rested up for next week's matchup
7) Chattanooga (OUT) - Pulled out a shocker of a win
8) ETSU (OUT) - Had nothing to be ashamed of
9) VMI (OUT) - One week closer to basketball season

Predictions
Chattanooga @ Wofford - Terriers send off their seniors in grand style
Western Carolina @ The Citadel - Bulldogs come up with a another win at home
Samford @ Mercer (Game of the Week) - Bears claw out a close one
VMI @ ETSU - Bucs take care of the Keydets

Path to the Southern Conference Championship
Wofford - becomes the presumptive champions with win this week, clinches autobid this week with win and Samford loss
Furman - needs to win out and prays to God Wofford lays an egg against Chattanooga and VMI to clinch the autobid
Western Carolina - needs to win out and prays to God Wofford and Furman lays an egg the next two weeks to clinch the autobid
Samford - needs to win out and prays to God Wofford lays an egg to either Chattanooga or VMI to clinch the autobid

Technically....6 DI wins make you eligible for the FCS playoffs, not 7.

[Mocs123]

I’m expecting a whole bunch of Furman fans to be Chattanooga fans this week.

[fc97]

Interesting to me that 4 of the top 5 teams are private schools and the bottom 4 are public.

[Mocs123]

Before I pick this week I would like to have more information on Adams’ injury. Will he play against The Citadel?

[walliver]

It was a cold and rainy day throughout the SoCon yesterday and some teams dealt with it better than others.

Power rankings:
1) Furman - convincing win
2) Wofford - I suspect we could play Alabama and Davidson in consecutive weeks and both would be one score games
... gap here ...
3) Mercer - playoffs are out, but they could keep two teams out
4) Western Carolina - disappointing game yesterday. Loss of QB is a major problem and if he doesn't come back 100% soon, may miss playoffs.
5) Samford - you can't beat anybody with that many turnovers
6) The Citadel - won the silver corn dog hat
7) ETSU - much improved from last year
8) Chattanooga - team finally starting to gel, but Arth still has work to do.
9) VMI - defense seems to be improving, but you have to score points to win.

This week:
Chattanooga at Wofford - T-Dogs won't give Mocs 7 turnovers and pull out a 24-14 win
WCU @ the Citadel - The outcome depends on the WCU QB's health. If he is 100%, the Cants win. I suspect he won't be and Bullpups win 20-17
Samford @ Mercer - My gut feeling is that Mercer is playing better right now, but I suspect the experienced QB leads the Bama Pups to a come-from-behind 35-34 victory
VMI @ ETSU - Mountain pirates pull out a 35-10 win.

Playoffs:
Wofford has the easiest road to the auto bid with Chatty and VMI to play. Probably in if they lose one.
Furman definitely in if they win their next two, but the Citadel will come to play and they finish with Samford. A loss in either and they are on the bubble at 7-4
Western - needs to get past the Citadel and Mercer - a loss to either and they may need to beat North Carolina to make the field
Samford - Mercer, ETSU and Furman finish the year - They really need to win all three. A loss puts them on the bubble, although Kennesaw win would help in that case.

I suspect we get 2 in, with a chance for 3. 4 is possible if Western and Sammy wins out in conference and FU beats the Citadel - but even then it all depends on what happens in the CAA and MVFC. I don't think any SoCon team has an impressive enough resume to get in with 6 D-I wins.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think this week was brutal to the playoff chances of Samford and Western.

I'd be very surprised if Furman or Wofford didn't make the playoffs, but now Western and Samford are 50-50. Samford probably can't afford two losses and they still have Mercer and Furman and a decent ETSU team. At 6-5, they just don't have the resume as they would have D1 wins over Wofford, Kennesaw, Citadel, VMI, and Furman/Mercer/ETSU. They would be 5-5 against D1 competition, 5-4 against FCS. If Western flounders down the stretch that hurts their quality losses. Of all the teams, on a resume standpoint Samford looks the weakest.

Western at 6-3 has to play two of the best defenses in the Socon in the next few weeks; with the Adams injury I don't know if they can beat both. They may get in the playoffs at 7-5, but that may be a stretch because if Samford flounders they'll have no quality win against an FCS team. 8-4 and a resurgent Samford team is what Western wants.

funny enough, I think the Citadel could put themselves back into the playoff bubble discussion, though I don't think they'll make it. If they win their next two, Western and Furman would be quality wins as they'd both be over .500 and that quality loss to wofford would look good too.

That Mercer loss to ETSU has thrown the whole thing into chaos, more than the Samford loss to Chatt; In a hypothetical situation where Mercer didn't lose to ETSU, you could have a situation where 5 teams are sitting at 6-6 or better (a bunch of 7-4 teams). All of them would be quality of some sort and with a good argument to be in the playoffs. But that's not going to happen

[ElCid]

funny enough, I think the Citadel could put themselves back into the playoff bubble discussion, though I don't think they'll make it. If they win their next two, Western and Furman would be quality wins as they'd both be over .500 and that quality loss to wofford would look good too.


Probably not even then. BUT, once we knock off the Tigers I don't see us having a problem.😀

[walliver]

Probably not even then. BUT, once we knock off the Tigers I don't see us having a problem.

Unfortunately, the Tiggers scheduled Georgia Tech in order to prepare for The Citadel, and did a very good job of shutting down the option.

[wcugrad95]

I have said all along I don't think any SoCon team gets in with a 5-3 conference record. So that means WCU and Samford will have to win out in FCS play. Western already had a tough hill to climb with Citadel and Mercer who run the ball well and play good defense. I don't know we can say what we saw from the play calling and backup-QB after Adams went down is fully indicative of what our offense will look like, but nobody would claim our hill isn't a whole lot steeper if Adams misses either (or both) games. Getting Newsome back (even though he was still a little banged-up) was going to be a huge lift to get the offense back to have dual threats, and then Adams goes down. Tough break for Western, but still a good turnaround by a team coming off a 2-9 season and who many thought would be in that same 2 or 3 win category this year.

[PaladinFan]

Someone noted this on our forum:

Wofford and Furman are both 5-1 in the SoCon. Wofford’s point differential in those 6 games is +17. Furman’s is +106.

[Reign of Terrier]

Someone noted this on our forum:

Wofford and Furman are both 5-1 in the SoCon. Wofford’s point differential in those 6 games is +17. Furman’s is +106.

And that's pretty much attributable to the two differences in philosophy. Furman overwhelms teams with efficient offense and makes them play catch up. Wofford keeps the score low and leans on our defense. I don't think the above stat means much. We haven't scored 40 on a D1 opponent in 2 years and we haven't done it on a team with a winning record in like a decade (yet we still made the quarterfinals last year).

It's not a fair comparison; there's only three common opponents: ETSU, Western and Mercer. The point difference in that measure is Furman +50 and Wofford +15 (Furman +35), which on the surface isn't much better, but loads better than Furman +89 above.

Western was also clearly handicapped yesterday and I'd argue it wasn't a fair comparison. I don't expect Wofford to hit 40 against VMI or Chattanooga, so this measurement to imply which team is better is locked-in to advantage Furman.

Statistically, this Wofford team is pretty much the same as last year. In Socon play we were +85 in our wins, which on paper looks better than this year, but when you factor in that ETSU is much better this year from last (especially at home), and the number shrinks to +54 (put aside the fact that Furman, Western and Mercer are clearly improved). We're on pace to be about the same margin if we play a complete game against Chattanooga and VMI (which I think is/was more likely than us against ETSU)

Furman is much better than last year but they still have question marks on defense. Blame it on injuries or youth, but they are still the worst pass defense in the Socon and have not played Samford yet. That may be because they force teams to pass to get back in the game, but my overall point is that style points only get you so far.

The Citadel plays the kind of game to where, if they don't turn the ball over, they can absolutely choke TOP and thus the amount of possessions Furman has (not to mention they have a great defense). Samford plays an offense that puts Furman at the biggest disadvantage they've been at all season (sans NC State) and has a defense comparable to Wofford/Citadel. Those games are going to be much closer than the last few, especially Samford.

So, I don't doubt that all bets are off if Furman and Wofford line up and play again (heck, I've ranked Furman #1 in the power ranking), but you can't look at the scores of each game, compounded with the circumstances they were played and reasonably conclude that Furman is head and shoulders better than Wofford (I know that wasn't your claim explicitly, but it's implicit in bringing up the datapoint) because the teams 1) play different styles and 2) have limited samples of common opponents to draw from and 3) arguably, played Western under much different circumstances.

[PaladinFan]

And that's pretty much attributable to the two differences in philosophy. Furman overwhelms teams with efficient offense and makes them play catch up. Wofford keeps the score low and leans on our defense. I don't think the above stat means much. We haven't scored 40 on a D1 opponent in 2 years and we haven't done it on a team with a winning record in like a decade (yet we still made the quarterfinals last year).

It's not a fair comparison; there's only three common opponents: ETSU, Western and Mercer. The point difference in that measure is Furman +50 and Wofford +15 (Furman +35), which on the surface isn't much better, but loads better than Furman +89 above.

Western was also clearly handicapped yesterday and I'd argue it wasn't a fair comparison. I don't expect Wofford to hit 40 against VMI or Chattanooga, so this measurement to imply which team is better is locked-in to advantage Furman.

Statistically, this Wofford team is pretty much the same as last year. In Socon play we were +85 in our wins, which on paper looks better than this year, but when you factor in that ETSU is much better this year from last (especially at home), and the number shrinks to +54 (put aside the fact that Furman, Western and Mercer are clearly improved). We're on pace to be about the same margin if we play a complete game against Chattanooga and VMI (which I think is/was more likely than us against ETSU)

Furman is much better than last year but they still have question marks on defense. Blame it on injuries or youth, but they are still the worst pass defense in the Socon and have not played Samford yet. That may be because they force teams to pass to get back in the game, but my overall point is that style points only get you so far.

The Citadel plays the kind of game to where, if they don't turn the ball over, they can absolutely choke TOP and thus the amount of possessions Furman has (not to mention they have a great defense). Samford plays an offense that puts Furman at the biggest disadvantage they've been at all season (sans NC State) and has a defense comparable to Wofford/Citadel.

So, I don't doubt that all bets are off if Furman and Wofford line up and play again (heck, I've ranked Furman #1 in the power ranking), but you can't look at the scores of each game, compounded with the circumstances they were played and reasonably conclude that Furman is head and shoulders better than Wofford (I know that wasn't your claim explicitly, but it's implicit in bringing up the datapoint) because the teams 1) play different styles and 2) have limited samples of common opponents to draw from and 3) arguably, played Western under much different circumstances.

I’m not using it as a measurement to imply which team is better. I’m stating it as a statistic without comment. Read into it what you will.

[LarryBoy]

The only point differential between Wofford and Furman that matters right now is Wofford +1.

[wcugrad95]

I know this isn't going to be statistically as defensible as some would like it to be, but based on what I know about football and the difference you can gauge in a team from week 1 to week 9, I think if they lined up again this Saturday that Furman would beat Wofford. Furman has become such a physical football team, and I think the way they have matured and improved from the start of the season is both instinctively (my eyes and my gut) and measurably better than Wofford. I would still expect the game to be very close given the style of game they play, but Wofford looks like the same team now as they did at the start (which is not a knock - they were good then and are still good now). Furman was unknown and looked pretty good to start and now they look very good.

None of that matters - next week anybody could play a stinker and their whole season can turn from great to only good, good to OK, or OK to mediocre. I am not going to be shocked if Wofford is the AQ, just like I won't be shocked to see just about any team in the league play their best game and beat any other team. As anybody can attest, an injury can derail you or simply playing 1 bad game can be the difference in playoff contention and middle of the pack. That is very true in the SoCon right now.

[Reign of Terrier]

I know this isn't going to be statistically as defensible as some would like it to be, but based on what I know about football and the difference you can gauge in a team from week 1 to week 9, I think if they lined up again this Saturday that Furman would beat Wofford. Furman has become such a physical football team, and I think the way they have matured and improved from the start of the season is both instinctively (my eyes and my gut) and measurably better than Wofford. I would still expect the game to be very close given the style of game they play, but Wofford looks like the same team now as they did at the start (which is not a knock - they were good then and are still good now). Furman was unknown and looked pretty good to start and now they look very good.

None of that matters - next week anybody could play a stinker and their whole season can turn from great to only good, good to OK, or OK to mediocre. I am not going to be shocked if Wofford is the AQ, just like I won't be shocked to see just about any team in the league play their best game and beat any other team. As anybody can attest, an injury can derail you or simply playing 1 bad game can be the difference in playoff contention and middle of the pack. That is very true in the SoCon right now.

And I agree.

Don't confuse my clinging to numbers and strict scrutiny of Furman's opposition as skepticism to how good they are. They're playing the best football right now, and if they lined up today/tomorrow/whatever they would definitely be favored. Whether or not they'd win is one of those any given saturday things, but I don't think anyone can reasonable say that Furman isn't playing the best right now. They remind me of the 2008 Wofford team which had one of the best offenses I've ever seen. that team only lost two games to FCS competition, but were both to top 3 teams. One of them was App state and we can piledrived into oblivion because we had a bad night. It happens.

When you're the team causing others to have so many bad nights in a row, that says something about who you are, not your opposition. Furman's that team right now. Wofford's different and weird because we keep forcing teams to have average nights (including Furman).

[Reign of Terrier]

1. Furman (needs one win to reach the 7 D1 win playoff mark)
2. Wofford (all but clinched a playoff spot this week)
3. Samford (Hatcher is an excellent con man)
4. Western (don't know how good they'll be going forward without Adams)
5. Mercer (could spoil Western or Samford's season)
6. Citadel (probably won't make the playoffs, but can put themselves back in the conversation with wins against Western and Furman)
7. ETSU (plays great at home, but not quite there in the trenches)
8. Chattanooga (they got a win in conference play that wasn't VMI; still have problems in the trenches)
9. VMI (really bad mkay)

Chattanooga @ Wofford (it's senior day and after three weeks of not playing our best, I think Wofford gets it done in a non-heart-rate-racing fashion)

Western Carolina @ The Citadel: I'm picking the Citadel in the upset. I don't think Western has the offense with Adams out and they have bad run defense problems. That's not what you need against a very good Citadel defense.

Samford @ Mercer: I think Samford bounces back after last week. It'll be a good game as Mercer has a solid defense and a steadily improved offense, but Hodges is too good to have a game as bad as this one two weeks in a row

VMI @ ETSU: ETSU plays great at home; 3-2 with the two losses coming by a score each. VMI won't overwhelm them in the trenches like other teams have this year. They have a good QB and VMI has a solid defense, but VMI doesn't have the offense to score enough to win.

Furman is off and I think that will help them prep for The Citadel

Since I've been challenged to be more precise in my picks xrolleyesx here's the YT quasi-statistical bull**** prediction baselines:

Wofford 26 Chatt 20
Western 24 Citadel 22
Mercer 26 Samford 25
ETSU 25 VMI 20

Now to adjust this down:

The only way Wofford scores more than 31 or 34 is if we win the turnover battle. I think Chatt is improved, but I still am not confident in their ability to protect Copeland or run the ball against a front like Wofford. If there are no turnovers and Wofford plays a good game, it's probably 31-17 Wofford. If not; if Wofford loses the turnover battle and Chatt capitalizes it's going to be too close to call in the low 20s.
Side predictions: Wofford gets at least two sacks, holds Chatt below 120 yards rushing
Wofford's yardage is in the 350-425 range
Chattanooga turns it over at least once

Western doesn't have the same offensive explosion without Adams. They need to pass the ball to win this game and this is an unproven commodity. The algorithm doesn't account for injuries and the Citadel has a phenomenal run defense. Even though it was raining, Western only completed 3 less passes per game than their average; maybe it was the QB, maybe it was the rain, but Western's pass offense was never phenomenal this year and they'd need it to beat Citadel. If the Citadel doesn't turn the ball over or wins the turnover battle, I think they win 28-17 and 35-40 minutes worth of TOP. If Western is more developed passing the ball without Adams, I think the'd win this game 31-21, with some margin of error with turnovers.
Side predictions: Citadel keeps Western below 200 yards rushing, Citadel rushes for over 325 yards.

Samford and Mercer is the hardest one to read because both teams are the hardest to read. I'll be honest and say I don't feel confident enough to make a prediction other than a Samford victory, simply for the reason that I don't see them losing two straight weeks and they're a team that can beat anyone if they have a good game in terms of playcalling. If this game is in the 30s, the advantage has to be to Samford because Mercer has yet to score 30 on an above .500 team.
Prediction: Samford rushes for less than 50 yards, Hodges throws 60 passes and completes 35 of them

VMI won't score as many points as originally predicted above. Though ETSU has problems in the trenches, I don't see VMI scoring 20 on anyone this year. 31-17 ETSU

[PaladinFan]

And I agree.

Don't confuse my clinging to numbers and strict scrutiny of Furman's opposition as skepticism to how good they are. They're playing the best football right now, and if they lined up today/tomorrow/whatever they would definitely be favored. Whether or not they'd win is one of those any given saturday things, but I don't think anyone can reasonable say that Furman isn't playing the best right now. They remind me of the 2008 Wofford team which had one of the best offenses I've ever seen. that team only lost two games to FCS competition, but were both to top 3 teams. One of them was App state and we can piledrived into oblivion because we had a bad night. It happens.

When you're the team causing others to have so many bad nights in a row, that says something about who you are, not your opposition. Furman's that team right now. Wofford's different and weird because we keep forcing teams to have average nights (including Furman).

Scrutiny of Furman’s opposition? They’ve played a tougher schedule than Wofford has.

[Reign of Terrier]

Scrutiny of Furman’s opposition? They’ve played a tougher schedule than Wofford has.

Teams Furman has played in the top 6 of the Socon: 3 out of a possible 5 (losing to Wofford, beating an Adam-less Western and a quality win over Mercer)
Wofford: 5 of 5.

For your point to have coherence you'd have to argue that Chattanooga and VMI are better than the Citadel and Samford.

[wcugrad95]

I think his point was on the whole. Furman has also played Elon (top-10 FCS) and NC State (was top-15 in FBS). Those two teams at least in rankings are tougher than anybody who will be on Wofford's schedule - debatable with USC at the end, but NC State is ranked higher than the Gamecocks.

[PaladinFan]

Teams Furman has played in the top 6 of the Socon: 3 out of a possible 5 (losing to Wofford, beating an Adam-less Western and a quality win over Mercer)
Wofford: 5 of 5.

For your point to have coherence you'd have to argue that Chattanooga and VMI are better than the Citadel and Samford.

You’ve scrutinized Furman’s schedule for a while. Furman has 1 fewer total in than Wofford. They have the same conference record.

Furman has played top 10 Elon. They’ve played a ranked FBS team. Wofford’s two OOC opponents to this point have been a 1-7 Gardner Webb team and a 3-5 Presbyterian.

No, Furman hasn’t played Samford. Samford did just lose to UTC, of course, a team Furman hammered on the road.

My point is your argument that Furman’s record and statistics are some how a product of their schedule just doesn’t hold water. If that’s your argument, you also have to apply it to Wofford, which you won’t.

[SCPALADIN]

You’ve scrutinized Furman’s schedule for a while. Furman has 1 fewer total in than Wofford. They have the same conference record.

Furman has played top 10 Elon. They’ve played a ranked FBS team. Wofford’s two OOC opponents to this point have been a 1-7 Gardner Webb team and a 3-5 Presbyterian.

No, Furman hasn’t played Samford. Samford did just lose to UTC, of course, a team Furman hammered on the road.

My point is your argument that Furman’s record and statistics are some how a product of their schedule just doesn’t hold water. If that’s your argument, you also have to apply it to Wofford, which you won’t.

Yet YT loves to accuse some posters on the AGS of homerism and the use of arbitrary statistics to suit oneself xcoffeex

[Reign of Terrier]

I think his point was on the whole. Furman has also played Elon (top-10 FCS) and NC State (was top-15 in FBS). Those two teams at least in rankings are tougher than anybody who will be on Wofford's schedule - debatable with USC at the end, but NC State is ranked higher than the Gamecocks.

But USC beat NC State ;) but yeah I concede they've played a tougher OOC schedule

I'm all for conceding the quality loss standpoint, but when it comes to quality wins Western Carolina (6-3) was the second team Furman beat with a winning record (Colgate was the first at 5-4, and the Patriot is down).

Wofford's beaten the citadel (5-3), Furman (6-3), Western (6-3)

Overall records of Wofford's conference opponents sans Furman (again, best measure because of predictability, etc) as of this week:
23-18 (29-21 with Furman)

Furman's sans Wofford 15-28 (22-29 with Wofford).

conference games:
Furman 10-19 (15-20 counting Wofford)
Wofford 14-14 (19-15 counting Furman)

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Playoffs:
Wofford has the easiest road to the auto bid with Chatty and VMI to play. Probably in if they lose one.


I agree with you here. I think Wofford knocks off both and wins the title.



Furman definitely in if they win their next two, but the Citadel will come to play and they finish with Samford. A loss in either and they are on the bubble at 7-4


Furman is #CatchingFire (who knew they would be this good this quickly). I see them taking down The Citadel and Samford.



Western - needs to get past the Citadel and Mercer - a loss to either and they may need to beat North Carolina to make the field


Western had the hot hand earlier but with the loss of Adams, could see their playoff hopes go up in smoke



Samford - Mercer, ETSU and Furman finish the year - They really need to win all three. A loss puts them on the bubble, although Kennesaw win would help in that case.


I hate to say this but they could lay an egg in all of the above.

ETSU note: I know we made some strides this season so far, don't be surprised if we win the rest of our games as I like ETSU's chances against VMI, Samford and Chattanooga.

[Reign of Terrier]

You’ve scrutinized Furman’s schedule for a while. Furman has 1 fewer total in than Wofford. They have the same conference record.

Furman has played top 10 Elon. They’ve played a ranked FBS team. Wofford’s two OOC opponents to this point have been a 1-7 Gardner Webb team and a 3-5 Presbyterian.

No, Furman hasn’t played Samford. Samford did just lose to UTC, of course, a team Furman hammered on the road.

My point is your argument that Furman’s record and statistics are some how a product of their schedule just doesn’t hold water. If that’s your argument, you also have to apply it to Wofford, which you won’t.

My argument wasn't that their statistics and record didn't hold water. I've said quite the opposite multiple times. It's a mathematical fact that Furman is keeping to their own averages on offense every game, regardless of opponent and ever team except maybe Wofford is having below-average games playing Furman.

My argument was simply that we have something of an availability bias when it comes to conference games, where Wofford and Furman only have three common opponents; the outcome of one is pretty similar (Mercer), the other pretty drastic but fits the trends of the teams if you squint (ETSU; but I'll concede we played terrible in that one) and the other gets at least an asterisk because we got to play Western with Adams the whole game.

The perception is that Furman is beating teams by better than Wofford (which, they are), but when you look at common opponents its slightly more complicated than that.


Yet YT loves to accuse some posters on the AGS of homerism and the use of arbitrary statistics to suit oneself xcoffeex

You would have a point there had I not said


But USC beat NC State ;) but yeah I concede they've played a tougher OOC schedule


It's not an unreasonable perspective to say that Furman has blown through the teams who don't have their ish together and has only played 2-3 teams that haven't (and arguably Western didn't without Adams), while the offense wasn't nearly as high scoring or dominant in 2 of those games.

...Just as it's completely reasonable to conclude that Wofford has problems getting and keeping a lead more than a touchdown and that could lead to an upset this week or if they lined up against Furman again they would probably lose right now.

There are chinks in every teams armor (Wofford, Furman, etc) and I think Furman fans are looking at how much better they are in these conference games compared to Wofford and thinking they have none, when really what Wofford's output this year is so unprecedently weird that it's not a good baseline for comparison of anyone (it's also fallacious in general; going into Saturday, Western had a 70 point edge on their opponents this season and laid an egg). Strength of conference schedule is only one element of it.That's my point.

[PaladinFan]

My argument wasn't that their statistics and record didn't hold water. I've said quite the opposite multiple times. It's a mathematical fact that Furman is keeping to their own averages on offense every game, regardless of opponent and ever team except maybe Wofford is having below-average games playing Furman.

My argument was simply that we have something of an availability bias when it comes to conference games, where Wofford and Furman only have three common opponents; the outcome of one is pretty similar (Mercer), the other pretty drastic but fits the trends of the teams if you squint (ETSU; but I'll concede we played terrible in that one) and the other gets at least an asterisk because we got to play Western with Adams the whole game.

The perception is that Furman is beating teams by better than Wofford (which, they are), but when you look at common opponents its slightly more complicated than that.



You would have a point there had I not said

So, “pretty similar,” “fits the trend if you squint,” and needs an “asterisk.” That’s a lot of qualifiers.

The reality is that Furman beat all three common opponents by better margins than Wofford did. In two of those games, significantly so. If I were a betting man, I’d wager that Furman will also have a larger margin of victory over UTC as well.

[Reign of Terrier]

So, “pretty similar,” “fits the trend if you squint,” and needs an “asterisk.” That’s a lot of qualifiers.

The reality is that Furman beat all three common opponents by better margins than Wofford did. In two of those games, significantly so. If I were a betting man, I’d wager that Furman will also have a larger margin of victory over UTC as well.

I would agree with that bet. We won't score 40, though 30 is possible (if we do, we win)

I'll admit I'm putting qualifiers. It's just that the western game in particular is a little weird with Adams going out. With ETSU, Wofford played better defense but Furman played much much better offense. And that's the trend of this year; heck, arguably Furman's offense was so efficient they put their defense in a bind, being on the field so much. We only have three games of common opponents; one I'd say was in the margin of expectations and the other two Furman did better. I think there's a strong argument that Western wasn't a 1:1 comparison given the Adams injury.

Look at the remaining games, I think the Furman-Samford game will be higher scoring than the Wofford-Samford game (no idea how to pick that one because Samford is still an enigma) and though the Citadel game will be interesting, I think Furman wins by 10 points or so, more than Wofford.

I'm right there with you in looking at the clear statistical reality that Furman is beating teams by worse than Wofford, but I think there's this implicit assumption that Furman fans have that because they're doing so that must mean they are really really really better and I don't think that's necessarily true. Half the conference has a better margin of victory average than Wofford.

[PaladinFan]

I would agree with that bet. We won't score 40, though 30 is possible (if we do, we win)

I'll admit I'm putting qualifiers. It's just that the western game in particular is a little weird with Adams going out. With ETSU, Wofford played better defense but Furman played much much better offense. And that's the trend of this year; heck, arguably Furman's offense was so efficient they put their defense in a bind, being on the field so much. We only have three games of common opponents; one I'd say was in the margin of expectations and the other two Furman did better. I think there's a strong argument that Western wasn't a 1:1 comparison given the Adams injury.

Look at the remaining games, I think the Furman-Samford game will be higher scoring than the Wofford-Samford game (no idea how to pick that one because Samford is still an enigma) and though the Citadel game will be interesting, I think Furman wins by 10 points or so, more than Wofford.

I'm right there with you in looking at the clear statistical reality that Furman is beating teams by worse than Wofford, but I think there's this implicit assumption that Furman fans have that because they're doing so that must mean they are really really really better and I don't think that's necessarily true. Half the conference has a better margin of victory average than Wofford.

I’m not suggesting Furman isn’t flawed. They are. Teams are struggling to exploit those flaws.

Losing Adams is notable, but not dispositive of the outcome of the game. Could WCU made a closer game with Adams in the lineup for four quarters and better weather? Probably. Furman saw a full helping of Detrez Newsome, which many other SoCon teams had not. Adams also doesn’t play defense, which is where Furman really went to work against WCU.

Sometimes you gotta call on the backup. It happens. Wofford lost their starting QB early last season. UTC’s had issues this year. No one shed tears for us in 2013 when we were down to a 4th string walkon starting games.

[CID1990]

I haven't seen anything this season to suggest to me that we are going to beat WCU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

I’m not suggesting Furman isn’t flawed. They are. Teams are struggling to exploit those flaws.

Losing Adams is notable, but not dispositive of the outcome of the game. Could WCU made a closer game with Adams in the lineup for four quarters and better weather? Probably. Furman saw a full helping of Detrez Newsome, which many other SoCon teams had not. Adams also doesn’t play defense, which is where Furman really went to work against WCU.

Sometimes you gotta call on the backup. It happens. Wofford lost their starting QB early last season. UTC’s had issues this year. No one shed tears for us in 2013 when we were down to a 4th string walkon starting games.

No doubt. I think Furman wins the game regardless (I basically make the point you say above in my wedge article tomorrow). Western was allowing 4ypc defensively going into saturday's game and Furman ran the ball with as much effectiveness as you'd expect. I just think Adams in there changes the dynamics of Western's offense. I can't say that for certain (I still think Furman wins), but I think when comparing Wofford and Furman's performance against Western it's not a congruent comparison because the personnel was different.

- - - Updated - - -


I haven't seen anything this season to suggest to me that we are going to beat WCU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have you seen Western's run defense though?

[PaladinFan]

No doubt. I think Furman wins the game regardless (I basically make the point you say above in my wedge article tomorrow). Western was allowing 4ypc defensively going into saturday's game and Furman ran the ball with as much effectiveness as you'd expect. I just think Adams in there changes the dynamics of Western's offense. I can't say that for certain (I still think Furman wins), but I think when comparing Wofford and Furman's performance against Western it's not a congruent comparison because the personnel was different.

- - - Updated - - -



Have you seen Western's run defense though?

I generally think its a bad idea in football to compare games. Sample size is too small and there are often other factors at play. For instance, it will not show up on the stat sheet that Furman and Western Carolina played in three inches of standing water.

Adams does change the dynamics of the offense, but even with him WCU was struggling to move the ball. The rain was a bigger factor. WCU is built like the App State teams of 10 years ago, who want to get rid of the ball quickly, get athletes in space, and make quick cuts to gain yardage. That’s really tough to do on a sloshy field.

I do think there is some caveat for teams like WCU and Samford, who are dependent on one player or certain conditions. Furman may well have run a completely different game plan in better conditions, but they were able to adapt better than WCU was.

[longtimemocfan]

I thought Furman and Wofford had already played 🤓

[woffordgrad94]

1. Wofford- The T-DOGS are in first place. WOOF! ERRRRRRR!
2. Furman- They lost to us and therefore are second.
3. WCU- Despite whatever excuse you want to use, they got hammered Saturday.
4. Samford- fell hard after a loss to a lower echelon team.
5. Mercer- not a playoff team yet
6. The Citadel- marching in the wrong direction despire beating hapless Roos
7. Chattanooga- Wofford should be concerned about this team. If we aren’t it might be a bad day.
8. ETSU- respectable showing against the BIG dogs
9. VMI- very much inept

Wofford 31 Chattanooga 21...I just don’t think we lose on Senior Day
ETSU 24, VMI 14...Bucs get a win at home
Samford 24, Mercer 21...Bulldogs in a close one
The Citadel 21, WCU 14...Adams injury hurts Cats

[PaladinFan]

I thought Furman and Wofford had already played 邏

I have no issue listing Wofford as the top team based on a head to head matchup with Furman.

I just reject trying to take stats, hold them up to the light, and pretend like Furman isn't hammering teams and Wofford isn't winning by their chin whiskers each week. Both of those things are true, and Wofford still has the better record.

[dungeonjoe]

Thank God games are won and lost on the field and not on football messageboards, calculators, or by armchair coaches/quarterbacks.

[PaladinFan]

I still think the SoCon could have a pretty good play for four playoff teams:

Wofford holds serve in the SoCon, drops the finale to USC, and ends up 9-2
Either Furman or Samford finishes 8-3 and the other 7-4.
Western Carolina finishes 8-4

I still think there's a chance Mercer could sneak in at 6-5, as they would notch two impressive wins over Samford and WCU to do so. I don't see Mercer and four SoCon teams making it, though.

The Citadel is still alive for a post season bid, and would strengthen their resume by finishing 7-5 with wins over WCU and Furman.

[CID1990]

I still think the SoCon could have a pretty good play for four playoff teams:

Wofford holds serve in the SoCon, drops the finale to USC, and ends up 9-2
Either Furman or Samford finishes 8-3 and the other 7-4.
Western Carolina finishes 8-4

I still think there's a chance Mercer could sneak in at 6-5, as they would notch two impressive wins over Samford and WCU to do so. I don't see Mercer and four SoCon teams making it, though.

The Citadel is still alive for a post season bid, and would strengthen their resume by finishing 7-5 with wins over WCU and Furman.

The Socon gets two in. Three is a very long shot - the conference OOC performance is weakish and for that reason the CAA and MVFC will get an extra one each... as usual

lay off the bong water


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FCSfan]

The only point differential between Wofford and Furman that matters right now is Wofford +1.


Valid observation LarryBoy

[FCSfan]

In my very limited & humble opinion...
SoCon gets only 2 teams in unless a few other teams across the land stumble in their respective conferences. SoCon just not going to repeat last year's strength for playoff spots.
Furman and Wofford are the likely 2 in if they take care of bisiness like they "should" but this is crazy college football with kids playing (with other things wondering in those skulls) and no matter how many numbers young terrier crunches the simple truth is that football games are won or lost around ill timed turnovers and a handful of plays each game.
Let us just hope that the wonderful SoCon officials don't have a hand in deciding any games in the coming weeks.

1. Wofford/Furman (+1 as LarryBoy attested)
2. Western/Samford/Mercer
3. The rest

Victors this week: Western...Mercer...ETSU...Wofford...Furman wins just because they get a rest

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford and Furman are almost certain. Furman only needs one of the next two to win.

Western is a big question mark because we don't know how good they are without Adams and the Citadel is a team that has good enough matchups to beat them.

Samford is also a question mark with a tough road ahead

[PaladinFan]

A bit peculiar this year with bye weeks.

I do not think Western Carolina gets a bye week by virtue of playing Hawaii. VMI technically gets a bye week in the final week of the season (Nov. 18), but they still play 11 straight. UTC won't have a bye until next week.

While later than I would like, Furman's bye comes at an opportune time. Coming off two big conference wins against tough teams, the Paladins get to rest up before seeing two completely different offenses in Citadel and then Samford. The Paladins will also benefit, I think, from seeing their two most recent opponents (WCU and Mercer) play their two future opponents (Citadel and Samford) this week.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm a fan of late season byes and early season FBS games.

Furman will benefit more than usual because they play the Citadel and Furman is one of the 3 teams that can replicate the speed of the option in a practice setting

[FurmanWins!!]

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/924624206771474433

[tenNesseeCat]

Power:
Wofford
Furman
WCU
Samford
Mercer
Citadel
ETSU
UTC
VMI

Picks:
UTC @ Wofford
WCU @ The Citadel
Samford @ Mercer
VMI @ ETSU

[Terrier19]

I thought Furman and Wofford had already played 邏

THIS....

[Terrier19]

1) Wofford
2) Furman
3) WCU
4) Samford
5) Mercer
6) The Citadel
7) UTC
8) ETSU
9) VMI

Picks:
Wofford
The Citadel (If Adams can't go or is less than 100%)
Mercer (Has been close...If no McKnight, Sammy is far less explosive....Mercer has the type of team to give Samford issues....)
ETSU (Quality team........Should be able to get over the hump against VMI)

[wcugrad95]

Regarding byes - the post was correct and WCU plays 12 in a row because we took the Hawaii game on. Absolutely fabulous trip and learning experience for the team, but hindsight given the mounting injuries might prove that as a bad decision. You never know, but 12 games in 12 weeks is a tall order for anybody.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm trying to figure out which would be better for Wofford's playoff chances: if Furman wins out or if Furman loses one. I don't want to play them again (the last few times the Socon has had a rematch in the playoffs, it went the opposite of the regular season) and they're on fire right now.

I hate Furman, but I'd love to pull for them from a distance in the playoffs because it makes us all look good, but if we rematch no sooner than the quarterfinals (presuming either of us get that far, which is a stretch in itself) I feel like it doesn't do justice to either team

[Terrier19]

I'm trying to figure out which would be better for Wofford's playoff chances: if Furman wins out or if Furman loses one. I don't want to play them again (the last few times the Socon has had a rematch in the playoffs, it went the opposite of the regular season) and they're on fire right now.

I hate Furman, but I'd love to pull for them from a distance in the playoffs because it makes us all look good, but if we rematch no sooner than the quarterfinals (presuming either of us get that far, which is a stretch in itself) I feel like it doesn't do justice to either team

Seeing how regionalized The Playoffs are, I do not see anyway that Wofford and Furman are not in the same pod. It is just going to happen. And while I would like to see us be on opposite sides so that we could both make deep runs and rep the SoCon, i don't mind playing Furman, I feel good about that matchup like I did early in the season. At least that would guarantee one of us made the quarterfinals that way....I want the Socon to do well in the playoffs but at the end of the day, I am just worried about us. No offense to any other team, but I am just concerned with winning these next 2 games and SoCOn crown, getting through the South Carolina game as healthy as possible regardless of win / loss......and then dial it up for the playoffs.

WE haven't played our best by a long shot (year to date)....and that is a good thing. Some teams will peak early....world beaters in September and October.....but its late October and November where champions are made....now is the time to dial it up......this week means everything.

[longtimemocfan]

I have no issue listing Wofford as the top team based on a head to head matchup with Furman.

I just reject trying to take stats, hold them up to the light, and pretend like Furman isn't hammering teams and Wofford isn't winning by their chin whiskers each week. Both of those things are true, and Wofford still has the better record.

Understand your point. You also can’t compare how Wofford plays against us to what the outcome was against Furman. Since we played Furman we’re a much improved team. That’s not to say Wofford still won’t hammer us, but it’ll be a lot different then it was when we played Western and Furman.

[Reign of Terrier]

Understand your point. You also can’t compare how Wofford plays against us to what the outcome was against Furman. Since we played Furman we’re a much improved team. That’s not to say Wofford still won’t hammer us, but it’ll be a lot different then it was when we played Western and Furman.

I think the TL;DR version of what's going to happen is that if Wofford loses the turnover battle, it's likely chattanooga wins. If Wofford wins it, Wofford probably wins but it'll still be close. If Chattanooga turns the ball over like they did against Samford, Wofford wins comfortably.

Chattanooga had trouble against our front 7 last year and defending the option against us. Special teams were a factor, but we still had probably our best performance last year on offensive, given the quality of the opponent, of the year. If Copeland has a break out day, doesn't turn the ball over and completes more than 55% of his passes Chattanooga wins. I don't think that particular scenario is likely, but I'm holding my breath because it only takes one good afternoon for Chatt.

[FurmanWins!!]

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/925056853297565696

[FurmanWins!!]

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/925030351260483584

[Terrier19]

Wofford

#8 AGS Poll
#8 STATS Poll
#9 Coach's Poll

[longtimemocfan]

I think the TL;DR version of what's going to happen is that if Wofford loses the turnover battle, it's likely chattanooga wins. If Wofford wins it, Wofford probably wins but it'll still be close. If Chattanooga turns the ball over like they did against Samford, Wofford wins comfortably.

Chattanooga had trouble against our front 7 last year and defending the option against us. Special teams were a factor, but we still had probably our best performance last year on offensive, given the quality of the opponent, of the year. If Copeland has a break out day, doesn't turn the ball over and completes more than 55% of his passes Chattanooga wins. I don't think that particular scenario is likely, but I'm holding my breath because it only takes one good afternoon for Chatt.

We’ve had the opportunity to discuss Mocs football with local paper beat writer on the moc nation board. He says that after The Citadel game from last year the coaches and the players checked out.
We’re not defending the to as well as we did yardage wise last year, but the red zone defense and TFL are better

[Reign of Terrier]

We’ve had the opportunity to discuss Mocs football with local paper beat writer on the moc nation board. He says that after The Citadel game from last year the coaches and the players checked out.
We’re not defending the to as well as we did yardage wise last year, but the red zone defense and TFL are better

Yeah, Chattanooga has a solid defense, no doubt about it. The probably lean on the defense more than any team but Wofford this year.

[Terrier19]

We’ve had the opportunity to discuss Mocs football with local paper beat writer on the moc nation board. He says that after The Citadel game from last year the coaches and the players checked out.
We’re not defending the to as well as we did yardage wise last year, but the red zone defense and TFL are better

It has been a tough season of transition for you guys....But I respect Chatt as a program and view them as very dangerous for us....In fact I had this game circled as one of the most important games of the season....I picked you guys to beat Samford last week as I knew inlcliment weather and your guys athletes would pose them problems like I knew you would.

We know we have to come to this game very focused and dialed in ready for a dogfight.........

[Mocs123]

Yeah, Chattanooga has a solid defense, no doubt about it. The probably lean on the defense more than any team but Wofford this year.

We have to as we have struggled on offense. We are on our 3rd QB, and 2nd (possibly 3rd) string RB. Our O line has gotten better, but struggled mightily early in the season.

We got the “Furman” injury bug that hit them the past few years and had at least 6 starters out vs The Citadel. We got a few back for Samford but had two leave the game with injuries and I am not 100% sure if they will be back this week.

I think for the first time since the UTM game Moc fans are optimistic about finishing the year strong. It’s been a hard year for us.

[PaladinFan]

We have to as we have struggled on offense. We are on our 3rd QB, and 2nd (possibly 3rd) string RB. Our O line has gotten better, but struggled mightily early in the season.

We got the “Furman” injury bug that hit them the past few years and had at least 6 starters out vs The Citadel. We got a few back for Samford but had two leave the game with injuries and I am not 100% sure if they will be back this week.

I think for the first time since the UTM game Moc fans are optimistic about finishing the year strong. It’s been a hard year for us.

As a side note, this is going to be a really fun conference to follow next year. A lot of SoCon teams are young and have really solid players returning.

Hopefully next season the schedule will end up favoring the conference by backloading some of their marquee games in October and November. Could really be a showcase for the conference late in the season.

[longtimemocfan]

It has been a tough season of transition for you guys....But I respect Chatt as a program and view them as very dangerous for us....In fact I had this game circled as one of the most important games of the season....I picked you guys to beat Samford last week as I knew inlcliment weather and your guys athletes would pose them problems like I knew you would.

We know we have to come to this game very focused and dialed in ready for a dogfight.........

Huesman had a winning record against every current SoCon team except.........Wofford he was 4-4. Arth and staff are learning, but haven’t turned the corner all the way against the TO. We didn’t come out ready to play last year and Wofford handed it to us. It’s a shame cause last year was Huesman’s most talented team.

[Terrier19]

Huesman had a winning record against every current SoCon team except.........Wofford he was 4-4. Arth and staff are learning, but haven’t turned the corner all the way against the TO. We didn’t come out ready to play last year and Wofford handed it to us. It’s a shame cause last year was Huesman’s most talented team.

Yes that was a very talented Chatt team.....I was so proud of our efforts down there last year....That game meant the world to us...WE played like it too.....I look forward to another hard fought game this weekend...and it is my sons Senior Day....we are pumped for this one.....Good luck to your guys...No injuries....but not TOO MUCH luck please....

[SU DOG]

Even if we win out, we would still only have 7 D-1 wins. I think we would probably make it with 7(the Kennesaw win might actually help), but it wouldn't be a sure thing. Right now the prospect of winning out seems dim.

[wcugrad95]

Even if we win out, we would still only have 7 D-1 wins. I think we would probably make it with 7(the Kennesaw win might actually help), but it wouldn't be a sure thing. Right now the prospect of winning out seems dim.

If the SoCon is the 3rd best league in the country, in my opinion anybody who finishes with a 6-2 record should be in.

[CID1990]

If the SoCon is the 3rd best league in the country, in my opinion anybody who finishes with a 6-2 record should be in.

Yeah and the CAA and MVFC shouldnt get 50 in between them but thats what happens


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NorthChuckSouth]

Chattanooga @ Wofford - 14-10
Western @ Citadel - xcoffeex
Samford @ Mercer - 31-17
VMI @ ETSU - 38-21

[gofurman]

Real dangerous weekend for WCU and Samford. Still in good position, but cannot afford to lose another one and have to deal with a couple tough teams.

I think Wofford needs to be really concerned with UTC. The Mocs have a lot of talent and Wofford tends to play to their competition.

despite the stupid coaches poll this weekend could be good for my Paladins - I think the SoCon deserves at least 2 teams in the playoffs. At least.

If Chatt were to beat Wofford that obviously helps Furman though Woff is still in playoffs - and should be! Good job all year by the Terriers. they win...

I am really looking at Western going to Citadel.. If Adams is still out and we saw that Woff (400 yds rushing v WCU) and Furman (360?) ran a lot on western this could be a tough one for wcu. if wcu loses then that's three conference losses - WOff, FU and Cit ... that would eliminate WCU in my mind from playoff possible. This is the most likely one to happen to help FU - Cit beats WCU

And Samford is at Mercer. Mercer is v good on D (though the front seven is the strength, not necessarily the DBs). IF Sammy loses (possible though Samford is probably a slight favorite) then its possible they and WCU leave the weekend w 3 losses in SoCOn. Samford lost to WCU and Chatt already.

just sayin' if Samford and WCU lose - possible though not probable - then that leaves FU at 5-1 in SoCon.. Woff at 6-1 or 5-2, prob 6-1.. and the others (WCU and Sam) at 3 losses in our conference. To me, IF (big IF) that happens then FU just needs to win one game to make the playoffs.

I mean you could end up: Woff 7-1.. FU 6-2.. WCU and Sammy 5-3. I think that locks Woff (obvious) and FU too as number two in SoCon. and then Sammy would be iffy - but has good wins inKennesaw state win, Wofford is a great win...

agree? youngterrier? others?

[longtimemocfan]

Yes that was a very talented Chatt team.....I was so proud of our efforts down there last year....That game meant the world to us...WE played like it too.....I look forward to another hard fought game this weekend...and it is my sons Senior Day....we are pumped for this one.....Good luck to your guys...No injuries....but not TOO MUCH luck please....

Thanks, same to you. I’m sure you are proud of your son.

[gofurman]

I haven't seen anything this season to suggest to me that we are going to beat WCU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now maybe Citdog will see I am reasonable - nah, never happen - ... You guys should look at what Woff and Furman did running vs WCU. I think you will beat WCU. Just keep your offense out there.. run, run, run and then throw over the top. I watched the WOff v WCU game on ESPN 3. Woff won and missed a ton of recvrs running free down the field. Like release TE. We just ran FB dive until they wore out. W one throw over the top to start the scoring. WCU doesn't quite have the run D yet. better by far but not quite there. its a good matchup for cit

[FurmanWins!!]

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/925113657138216961

[Reign of Terrier]

Chattanooga @ Wofford - 14-10
Western @ Citadel - xcoffeex
Samford @ Mercer - 31-17
VMI @ ETSU - 38-21

I think if Chatt holds us to 14 we probably lose by two scores. We're good for 4 scores at least a game (whether they be 4 TDs, 2 TDs and 2 FGs, etc.) and I think the only way we get below that mark against chatt (who has a good defense, albeit one that doesn't reflect their record) is if we turn the ball over 3+ times.

If that happens, it's most likely to happen on a pitch, which have been known to be brought back for points or close to it (Western, Gardner Webb).

In Socon play this year, on offense I haven't held my breath over whether or not we can score enough points to win, I'm more concerned about turnovers getting brought back for points.

[Reign of Terrier]

Also I will say this about the Citadel: I think they are capable of scoring 30 points and running all over the field against Western Carolina; whether they actually do it is another story.

I think they'll win (which is why I picked them), but the way they win will determine the amount of attention the game against Furman the week after deserves.

So far the biggest obstacle to the Citadel's offensive success this year has been themselves. If they overcome it, Furman better watch out. Young, talented teams often lose games early and rally to win some games they shouldn't late.

[PaladinFan]

Also I will say this about the Citadel: I think they are capable of scoring 30 points and running all over the field against Western Carolina; whether they actually do it is another story.

I think they'll win (which is why I picked them), but the way they win will determine the amount of attention the game against Furman the week after deserves.

So far the biggest obstacle to the Citadel's offensive success this year has been themselves. If they overcome it, Furman better watch out. Young, talented teams often lose games early and rally to win some games they shouldn't late.

I certainly think the Citadel will come to Greenville next week seeing a focused and motivated Furman team. Regardless of what the Citadel does against WCU, Furman knows that beating them is likely their ticket to the post season.

The Citadel is averaging 24.4 ppg, but hasn't reached that mark since playing ETSU in week 3. Their offense is probably inflated a bit with games against PC and Newberry early on, as they have not eclipsed 21 points over their last 5 games. Maybe they put it all together against WCU and Furman, but it seems like the defensive playbook is out there on the Citadel right now.

[Reign of Terrier]

I certainly think the Citadel will come to Greenville next week seeing a focused and motivated Furman team. Regardless of what the Citadel does against WCU, Furman knows that beating them is likely their ticket to the post season.

The Citadel is averaging 24.4 ppg, but hasn't reached that mark since playing ETSU in week 3. Their offense is probably inflated a bit with games against PC and Newberry early on, as they have not eclipsed 21 points over their last 5 games. Maybe they put it all together against WCU and Furman, but it seems like the defensive playbook is out there on the Citadel right now.

A couple things on the Citadel though: I want to say they fumbled like 5 times against Mercer, which obviously hurt their offense. Against Samford, they were probably in field goal range at least a couple of times, but were too far behind and needed TDs, and this past week they missed 4 field goals inside 40 yards against VMI. Oh and against Wofford they fumbled on the one yard line as their QB was running toward the goal line.

The Citadel is their own worst enemy when scoring points. Given it's consistent in every game they've played in the Socon this season, the trend-line suggests it'll continue this week and next. Having said that, it only takes one game of no-mistakes for them to put an upset up on someone and it's more likely to happen in the second half of the year with a young team.

I'm viewing the Citadel in the next couple weeks in the same way as I do when the Terriers play Cole Copeland: the trend suggests he/they will make mistakes, but the possibility of one complete, mistake minimized game and the outcomes that come from that are possible enough that those trends shouldn't be a given.

[Terrier19]

Thanks, same to you. I’m sure you are proud of your son.

Thanks very much. I am for sure. Pretty emotional day for me really. Feels like we just did this in high school. Crazy how fast time goes.

[PaladinFan]

A couple things on the Citadel though: I want to say they fumbled like 5 times against Mercer, which obviously hurt their offense. Against Samford, they were probably in field goal range at least a couple of times, but were too far behind and needed TDs, and this past week they missed 4 field goals inside 40 yards against VMI. Oh and against Wofford they fumbled on the one yard line as their QB was running toward the goal line.

The Citadel is their own worst enemy when scoring points. Given it's consistent in every game they've played in the Socon this season, the trend-line suggests it'll continue this week and next. Having said that, it only takes one game of no-mistakes for them to put an upset up on someone and it's more likely to happen in the second half of the year with a young team.

I'm viewing the Citadel in the next couple weeks in the same way as I do when the Terriers play Cole Copeland: the trend suggests he/they will make mistakes, but the possibility of one complete, mistake minimized game and the outcomes that come from that are possible enough that those trends shouldn't be a given.

That certainly is a factor. Option offenses are historically going to suffer a lot of fumbles. Of course, many of those fumbles often go backwards and out of bounds, so they just tend to hurt you from a field position standpoint. The Citadel has fumbled 16 times this season, but only lost 5 of them.

I think Furman will matchup pretty well against the Bulldogs. I am excited to see Furman's run game against that Citadel defensive front. That'll be a war in the trenches.

[Reign of Terrier]

That certainly is a factor. Option offenses are historically going to suffer a lot of fumbles. Of course, many of those fumbles often go backwards and out of bounds, so they just tend to hurt you from a field position standpoint. The Citadel has fumbled 16 times this season, but only lost 5 of them.

I think Furman will matchup pretty well against the Bulldogs. I am excited to see Furman's run game against that Citadel defensive front. That'll be a war in the trenches.

war in the trenches, with likely limited possessions (be surprised if the winner scores more than 31) because the clock is running.

All of these factors are why I wasn't surprised the Wofford-Citadel was a close game and why I think the Furman-Citadel game will be a close game. Even if I think Furman wins

[ElCid]

I certainly think the Citadel will come to Greenville next week seeing a focused and motivated Furman team. Regardless of what the Citadel does against WCU, Furman knows that beating them is likely their ticket to the post season.

The Citadel is averaging 24.4 ppg, but hasn't reached that mark since playing ETSU in week 3. Their offense is probably inflated a bit with games against PC and Newberry early on, as they have not eclipsed 21 points over their last 5 games. Maybe they put it all together against WCU and Furman, but it seems like the defensive playbook is out there on the Citadel right now.

Stats can always be interpreted to fit the spin. But YT has it closer. We have beat ourselves so many times, it wasn't funny. Not to take anything away from Samford or Mercer, but we made a few unforced errors in those games as well. Aside from mistakes, our o-line is finally starting to gel. We are not there quite yet, but showing improvement each week.

Overall, we have left a ton of points on the field. Some were due to timely defensive calls and efforts, some were to our bad calls/efforts. But we have generally moved the ball fairly well in any event. Our yards to points ratio has to be the worst in the SOCON. Closing the deal each red zone trip has been the issue.

Haven't thought about Furman yet, but if WCU has lost its QB this coming week, I like our chances. Even with him, I liked our chances due to our defense. It has had a couple burps this year, but has generally been stout.

[Terrier19]

Stats can always be interpreted to fit the spin. But YT has it closer. We have beat ourselves so many times, it wasn't funny. Not to take anything away from Samford or Mercer, but we made a few unforced errors in those games as well. Aside from mistakes, our o-line is finally starting to gel. We are not there quite yet, but showing improvement each week.

Overall, we have left a ton of points on the field. Some were due to timely defensive calls and efforts, some were to our bad calls/efforts. But we have generally moved the ball fairly well in any event. Our yards to points ratio has to be the worst in the SOCON. Closing the deal each red zone trip has been the issue.

Haven't thought about Furman yet, but if WCU has lost its QB this coming week, I like our chances. Even with him, I liked our chances due to our defense. It has had a couple burps this year, but has generally been stout.

That Citadel Defense was righteous. Toughest we faced all season IMO. Was tough sledding that game for real. Nothing but respect for those young men, we earned everything that night.

[Mocs123]

I think if Chatt holds us to 14 we probably lose by two scores. We're good for 4 scores at least a game (whether they be 4 TDs, 2 TDs and 2 FGs, etc.) and I think the only way we get below that mark against chatt (who has a good defense, albeit one that doesn't reflect their record) is if we turn the ball over 3+ times.

If that happens, it's most likely to happen on a pitch, which have been known to be brought back for points or close to it (Western, Gardner Webb).

In Socon play this year, on offense I haven't held my breath over whether or not we can score enough points to win, I'm more concerned about turnovers getting brought back for points.

If we can keep it a low scoring game we have a shot, but we don’t currently have the offense to win a shootout (and likely won’t have many possessions anyway). I would be surprised if we score more than 21-24 points but hopefully our D can keep us in the game (some Terrier turnovers would help).

Our D has played decent most of the year other than the Furman debacle.

[citdog]

I certainly think the Citadel will come to Greenville next week seeing a focused and motivated Furman team. Regardless of what the Citadel does against WCU, Furman knows that beating them is likely their ticket to the post season.

The Citadel is averaging 24.4 ppg, but hasn't reached that mark since playing ETSU in week 3. Their offense is probably inflated a bit with games against PC and Newberry early on, as they have not eclipsed 21 points over their last 5 games. Maybe they put it all together against WCU and Furman, but it seems like the defensive playbook is out there on the Citadel right now.

It's the same plays as ever furmanite just being blocked by three smacks on the o line.

[Reign of Terrier]

If we can keep it a low scoring game we have a shot, but we don’t currently have the offense to win a shootout (and likely won’t have many possessions anyway). I would be surprised if we score more than 21-24 points but hopefully our D can keep us in the game (some Terrier turnovers would help).

Our D has played decent most of the year other than the Furman debacle.

Yeah my interpretation is that if Chatt can protect Copeland and they can create some semblance of a run game, they'll be in good shape. The problem is that last year, they couldn't do that and the run game/pass protection was better. But on the flip side Wofford's offense hasn't been reliable to score 30 either, so we're 2 turnovers or just 1 bad turnover from making it a competitive game

[FurmanWins!!]

Blazejowski playing excellent ball

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/925358373767348225

[BearDownMU]

A couple things on the Citadel though: I want to say they fumbled like 5 times against Mercer, which obviously hurt their offense. Against Samford, they were probably in field goal range at least a couple of times, but were too far behind and needed TDs, and this past week they missed 4 field goals inside 40 yards against VMI. Oh and against Wofford they fumbled on the one yard line as their QB was running toward the goal line.

The Citadel is their own worst enemy when scoring points. Given it's consistent in every game they've played in the Socon this season, the trend-line suggests it'll continue this week and next. Having said that, it only takes one game of no-mistakes for them to put an upset up on someone and it's more likely to happen in the second half of the year with a young team.

I'm viewing the Citadel in the next couple weeks in the same way as I do when the Terriers play Cole Copeland: the trend suggests he/they will make mistakes, but the possibility of one complete, mistake minimized game and the outcomes that come from that are possible enough that those trends shouldn't be a given.

I would think our game with CIT was pretty anomalous and stat skewing for them, to be honest. It was 21-0 with 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and CIT threw somewhere around 22 passes in the the last quarter and 2 minutes. Ending with 32 pass attempts for the game. That isn't what they do, but they were in serious catch-up mode at that point. They've thrown 104 passes in 8 games and 32 of those attempts were in our game.

And they had 6 fumbles. They lost 3.

[FUGameBreaker]

Blazejowski playing excellent ball

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/925358373767348225



indeed

[longtimemocfan]

Yeah my interpretation is that if Chatt can protect Copeland and they can create some semblance of a run game, they'll be in good shape. The problem is that last year, they couldn't do that and the run game/pass protection was better. But on the flip side Wofford's offense hasn't been reliable to score 30 either, so we're 2 turnovers or just 1 bad turnover from making it a competitive game

Trust me these are 2 totally different teams from last year to now. Believe or not we are probably going to play this game more inspiringly than we did last year. Not sure what happened after The Citadel game last year,but besides the Alabama game we basically came out flat and uninspired. A lot of the blame falls at the feet at the coach which now resides in Richmond. Lot of differences in the team you saw last year.

[Reign of Terrier]

Trust me these are 2 totally different teams from last year to now. Believe or not we are probably going to play this game more inspiringly than we did last year. Not sure what happened after The Citadel game last year,but besides the Alabama game we basically came out flat and uninspired. A lot of the blame falls at the feet at the coach which now resides in Richmond. Lot of differences in the team you saw last year.

To be honest with you I'm a little skeptical of that claim, only because Wofford was the only non-playoff game Chattanooga lost down the stretch and it's not like we blew you out. It was a competitive game for all four quarters.

All I'm saying is, from this season to last, one thing that remains consistent and could indicate an advantage for Wofford is that Chattanooga was better running the ball and protecting the QB last year, but Wofford still had a pretty good day.

I concede the possibility that Chattanooga's OL may have turned a corner (we really only have a sample of 1-2 games to draw that conclusion), so I'm not as confident about this game.

[Mocs123]

I agree that Chattanooga was better at running the ball and protecting the QB last year even with our recent success.

Bennifield played his worst game as a Moc against Wofford last year. Will Copeland do better? Who knows? As a true freshman he is prone to mistakes so it may depend on how many he makes. If our defense can’t stop you it’s a moot point as unlike previous years, I don’t think we have the firepower to win a high scoring game.

[PaladinFan]

I agree that Chattanooga was better at running the ball and protecting the QB last year even with our recent success.

Bennifield played his worst game as a Moc against Wofford last year. Will Copeland do better? Who knows? As a true freshman he is prone to mistakes so it may depend on how many he makes. If our defense can’t stop you it’s a moot point as unlike previous years, I don’t think we have the firepower to win a high scoring game.

Mocs need to keep it a low scoring defensive battle. They need to get the running game going. UTC's got some good receivers and play makers than can quickly shift momentum in a game if the Mocs can keep it close enough to strike.

[Reign of Terrier]

Glancing at last year's final scores it's kind of amazing how much the Mocs have fallen off offensively. They scored 28 points against Wofford and that was their second worst performance of the season (next to the Citadel at 14).

The key on saturday I think is third down for chattanooga. If you look at Wofford's 3rd down defenses on the season, we've played better percentage-wise against run-first teams (Citadel, Furman, Gardner Webb, Western) than teams where passing was the strength (ETSU). Against teams where we had matchup advantages (the option against the citadel and superior athleticism against PC, ETSU) we were able to force lots of third downs (17-18) but the difference in conversion rate had to do with a team's ability to pass (namely, the Citadel couldn't). Against Samford and Western, we had trouble giving up yardage on first and second down as evident by the fact that they had less third down attempts than other games (10 and 11 respectively). We were able to keep their percentages low, I would hypothesize, because we put them in situations where running was a reasonable play call and our stout run defense stopped them.

Last game, ETSU came in at about 30% conversion rate and was able to convert with 50% on the day. UTC's conversion rate is similar or worse, but ETSU last week kind of proves that that particular stat may not matter going in this one. I think it has something to do with Wofford's defensive scheme and it's something UTC can exploit. We're better at run defense than pass defense, so unless you're a run first-team like Citadel or Furman, counter-intuitively, a 3rd and 7 + may be a more likely conversion than a third and short situation (if you have a decent, efficient QB).

I don't think Chatt has the running capability to put them in third and short situations like Furman, Citadel or Western was able to do. Obviously, I could be wrong as I have been before, but it's still going to come down to Chatt's ability to burn clock, maintain possession and convert third downs. If they are going to do that, it's more likely going to fall on the arm of Copeland and the offensive line protecting him on third down. ETSU taught us that if that's the case, it doesn't really matter has better matchups in the trenches, the other team is going to get their completions. Basically it falls upon whether or not Copeland is a comparable QB to Hernick. On one hand, he's young and has his share of mistakes; but on another, they grow up sometime and as I've been harping on in this thread, this is the time of year you'd see young guys mature, so I'm not so sure what we'll see.

[Mocs123]

It is amazing how much we have fallen off offensively. We lost Craine, who was a special talent for sure, our two top wideouts, and Bennifield, who was a good QB, but I think what hurt as much as anything was the 3 O Linemen, which we haven’t seemed to really replace.

[CID1990]

A couple things on the Citadel though: I want to say they fumbled like 5 times against Mercer, which obviously hurt their offense. Against Samford, they were probably in field goal range at least a couple of times, but were too far behind and needed TDs, and this past week they missed 4 field goals inside 40 yards against VMI. Oh and against Wofford they fumbled on the one yard line as their QB was running toward the goal line.

The Citadel is their own worst enemy when scoring points. Given it's consistent in every game they've played in the Socon this season, the trend-line suggests it'll continue this week and next. Having said that, it only takes one game of no-mistakes for them to put an upset up on someone and it's more likely to happen in the second half of the year with a young team.

I'm viewing the Citadel in the next couple weeks in the same way as I do when the Terriers play Cole Copeland: the trend suggests he/they will make mistakes, but the possibility of one complete, mistake minimized game and the outcomes that come from that are possible enough that those trends shouldn't be a given.

This is accurate. We are basically making ourselves easy to defend

We've got something like 15 true freshmen with playing time, including 3 OL starters

That's a "youthful mistake" factory and I called it before the season started. We'll be in the hunt again soon, just not this season


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gofurman]

That Citadel Defense was righteous. Toughest we faced all season IMO. Was tough sledding that game for real. Nothing but respect for those young men, we earned everything that night.

Agree. I watched that game. It was good Woff has some air capability now. That saved them. Funny listening to Citadel ESPN3 announcers - I could tell the Woff air attack pissed him off some.

Citadel could esasily have won that game. Easily

[gofurman]

This is accurate. We are basically making ourselves easy to defend

We've got something like 15 true freshmen with playing time, including 3 OL starters

That's a "youthful mistake" factory and I called it before the season started. We'll be in the hunt again soon, just not this season


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hear you. Though FU may be younger. 27 freshman have played this season. We don't have one senior starting on D. The whole D returns next year. Though maybe that explains why our O is way ahead of our D ! Our run D is good. Lead league in sacks. But we have a poor pass D ( a little odd to lead league in sacks and interceptions but have worst ranked pass D

Our OL has two freshman , Soph and two Seniors. That's starting. Granted the seniors are anchoring the OL but still 8 of 10 on OL deep will return.

anyway. Regardless of how it plays out I am so impressed w Hendrix and Staggs etc w all this youth we have already doubled Fowlers 3 wins from last year.

[longtimemocfan]

To be honest with you I'm a little skeptical of that claim, only because Wofford was the only non-playoff game Chattanooga lost down the stretch and it's not like we blew you out. It was a competitive game for all four quarters.

All I'm saying is, from this season to last, one thing that remains consistent and could indicate an advantage for Wofford is that Chattanooga was better running the ball and protecting the QB last year, but Wofford still had a pretty good day.

I concede the possibility that Chattanooga's OL may have turned a corner (we really only have a sample of 1-2 games to draw that conclusion), so I'm not as confident about this game.

Not at all trying to change the narrative here, but if we played you earlier in the season last year I think we would have won maybe even convincingly. Especially the way we played against Samford and Mercer. Did anyone else in the conference beat those teams by the margin we did ? No. What I I’m saying is Craine got hurt in the first half of The Citadel game, we lose and never regain the edge we had. The beat press writer says the same thing. He said the practices were lackluster and transcended over to game play. Last year was by far Huesman’s best team talent wise. We came out flat in most of the games after we played The Citadel . It was evident against the more talented teams like Wofford and the playoff game against Sam Houston St. (21-0) in the first qtr. Not at all saying we will play better this weekend, just that the effort and enthusiasm may exceed last years.

[longtimemocfan]

Stats can always be interpreted to fit the spin. But YT has it closer. We have beat ourselves so many times, it wasn't funny. Not to take anything away from Samford or Mercer, but we made a few unforced errors in those games as well. Aside from mistakes, our o-line is finally starting to gel. We are not there quite yet, but showing improvement each week.

Overall, we have left a ton of points on the field. Some were due to timely defensive calls and efforts, some were to our bad calls/efforts. But we have generally moved the ball fairly well in any event. Our yards to points ratio has to be the worst in the SOCON. Closing the deal each red zone trip has been the issue.

Haven't thought about Furman yet, but if WCU has lost its QB this coming week, I like our chances. Even with him, I liked our chances due to our defense. It has had a couple burps this year, but has generally been stout.

You all didn’t turn the ball over against us. The only mistakes The Citadel really made was a couple of missed FG’s.

[FUBeAR]

Not at all trying to change the narrative here, but if we played you earlier in the season last year I think we would have won maybe even convincingly. Especially the way we played against Samford and Mercer. Did anyone else in the conference beat those teams by the margin we did ? No. What I I’m saying is Craine got hurt in the first half of The Citadel game, we lose and never regain the edge we had. The beat press writer says the same thing. He said the practices were lackluster and transcended over to game play. Last year was by far Huesman’s best team talent wise. We came out flat in most of the games after we played The Citadel . It was evident against the more talented teams like Wofford and the playoff game against Sam Houston St. (21-0) in the first qtr. Not at all saying we will play better this weekend, just that the effort and enthusiasm may exceed last years.

Agree with your post 100%. Just 1 fact to correct. Craine got hurt in the Mercer game (4th play of the 2nd half); which was the reason Mercer came close to climbing back into that game in the 2nd half. Bears cut the lead in half, but I believe a pick 6 derailed that fleeting comeback.

So...Craine, already injured, reinjured/further injured himself early in the 2nd half @ CIT & Chatt was definitely not the same Team without him. I felt Craine’s absence was the major difference in that game. IMO, with Craine full speed, Chatt wins that game by 10+ & takes Woffy a couple of weeks later also. Even though he played vs. Woffy, he just didn’t seem to have that 1-cut BURST into the line that he had before he was injured, despite later having 2 strong Playoff games to finish his fantastic career as a Moc.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PaladinFan]

I hear you. Though FU may be younger. 27 freshman have played this season. We don't have one senior starting on D. The whole D returns next year. Though maybe that explains why our O is way ahead of our D ! Our run D is good. Lead league in sacks. But we have a poor pass D ( a little odd to lead league in sacks and interceptions but have worst ranked pass D

Our OL has two freshman , Soph and two Seniors. That's starting. Granted the seniors are anchoring the OL but still 8 of 10 on OL deep will return.

anyway. Regardless of how it plays out I am so impressed w Hendrix and Staggs etc w all this youth we have already doubled Fowlers 3 wins from last year.

Coach Hendrix said in his post-game interview that at one point midway through the 4th Q against WCU Furman had 7 true freshman on the field on defense at one time.

I thought he had misspoke until I went back and looked at the participation chart. Sure enough, there were seven true freshman playing for the defense:

Parker Stokes
Landon Lawrence
Reynard Ellis
Elijah McKoy
Davonta Porter
Darius Kearse
Dimarcus Clay

That, to me, is just crazy. Regardless of what happens the rest of the way, Clay Hendrix is SoCon coach of the year, and it isn’t even close. What he’s been able to do in one season turning around Furman and doing it with basically a team full of freshmen is simply impressive.

[Mocs123]

Hard to argue with Hendrix being coach of the year. Spear should be runner up, but it shouldn’t be close.

[PaladinFan]

Hard to argue with Hendrix being coach of the year. Spear should be runner up, but it shouldn’t be close.

I'd give an assist to the WCU defensive coordinator. The Cats could score last year, but their defense is monumentally better this season.

[wcugrad95]

I'd give an assist to the WCU defensive coordinator. The Cats could score last year, but their defense is monumentally better this season.

"Monumentally" might be a little too high praise based on the yards given up and the points surrendered in the losses and Samford game. But we switched to a 3-4 based on what Wiley wants to do but still don't have the depth or necessarily the personnel for that scheme yet. The major difference is that the defense at least looks like they know what the coach wants them to do and understands the scheme - last season it looked like half the players on half the plays didn't have a clue. Playing the same set of typically undersized guys upfront ends up taking a toll against teams like Wofford and Furman, and we will have to overcome that or find that early-season offense in order to compete with Citadel this week.

But back where the thread was going, I'd say it is Hendrix as the clear COTY and Speir second right now. These teams were picked to finish down around 6th and 7th in the league.

[PaladinFan]

"Monumentally" might be a little too high praise based on the yards given up and the points surrendered in the losses and Samford game. But we switched to a 3-4 based on what Wiley wants to do but still don't have the depth or necessarily the personnel for that scheme yet. The major difference is that the defense at least looks like they know what the coach wants them to do and understands the scheme - last season it looked like half the players on half the plays didn't have a clue. Playing the same set of typically undersized guys upfront ends up taking a toll against teams like Wofford and Furman, and we will have to overcome that or find that early-season offense in order to compete with Citadel this week.

But back where the thread was going, I'd say it is Hendrix as the clear COTY and Speir second right now. These teams were picked to finish down around 6th and 7th in the league.

As a sidenote, are UTC and Samford the only teams still running a 4-3 defense?

[Reign of Terrier]

Not at all trying to change the narrative here, but if we played you earlier in the season last year I think we would have won maybe even convincingly. Especially the way we played against Samford and Mercer. Did anyone else in the conference beat those teams by the margin we did ? No. What I I’m saying is Craine got hurt in the first half of The Citadel game, we lose and never regain the edge we had. The beat press writer says the same thing. He said the practices were lackluster and transcended over to game play. Last year was by far Huesman’s best team talent wise. We came out flat in most of the games after we played The Citadel . It was evident against the more talented teams like Wofford and the playoff game against Sam Houston St. (21-0) in the first qtr. Not at all saying we will play better this weekend, just that the effort and enthusiasm may exceed last years.

I think the whole thing is an "ifs and buts" sort of deal because I think we can agree Wofford wanted it more. We'd come off two close losses to the Citadel and Samford and knew we needed the W for the playoffs. Football in general is a game of inches. Having said that, Chattanooga offensively plays the kind of game that Wofford is better at stopping (compared to Western and Samford) defensively, so I'm not surprised we did as well as we did.


You all didn’t turn the ball over against us. The only mistakes The Citadel really made was a couple of missed FG’s.

Yeah, Citadel has cut down on the turnovers since the Wofford game, but they are still leaving points on the board. They missed a couple FG against Chatt and 4 against VMI. If I were Thompson I just wouldn't kick it.

[longtimemocfan]

Agree with your post 100%. Just 1 fact to correct. Craine got hurt in the Mercer game (4th play of the 2nd half); which was the reason Mercer came close to climbing back into that game in the 2nd half. Bears cut the lead in half, but I believe a pick 6 derailed that fleeting comeback.

So...Craine, already injured, reinjured/further injured himself early in the 2nd half @ CIT & Chatt was definitely not the same Team without him. I felt Craine’s absence was the major difference in that game. IMO, with Craine full speed, Chatt wins that game by 10+ & takes Woffy a couple of weeks later also. Even though he played vs. Woffy, he just didn’t seem to have that 1-cut BURST into the line that he had before he was injured, despite later having 2 strong Playoff games to finish his fantastic career as a Moc.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Your right, I had forgotten he left the 2nd half of the Mercer game.

[longtimemocfan]

I think the whole thing is an "ifs and buts" sort of deal because I think we can agree Wofford wanted it more. We'd come off two close losses to the Citadel and Samford and knew we needed the W for the ayoffs. Football in general is a game of inches. Having said that, Chattanooga offensively plays the kind of game that Wofford is better at stopping (compared to Western and Samford) defensively, so I'm not surprised we did as well as we did.
Oilas


Yeah, Citadel has cut down on the turnovers since the Wofford game, but they are still leaving points on the board. They missed a couple FG against Chatt and 4 against VMI. If I were Thompson I just wouldn't kick it.

Yes, opinions and discussions. If and buts are always going to be a part of it.

[ElCid]

I think the whole thing is an "ifs and buts" sort of deal because I think we can agree Wofford wanted it more. We'd come off two close losses to the Citadel and Samford and knew we needed the W for the playoffs. Football in general is a game of inches. Having said that, Chattanooga offensively plays the kind of game that Wofford is better at stopping (compared to Western and Samford) defensively, so I'm not surprised we did as well as we did.



Yeah, Citadel has cut down on the turnovers since the Wofford game, but they are still leaving points on the board. They missed a couple FG against Chatt and 4 against VMI. If I were Thompson I just wouldn't kick it.

But the funny part is that our kicker is not that bad. I know that sounds stupid to say considering his recent record, but I think it is more psychological right now than ability. I am glad the coach let him continue.

[Reign of Terrier]

Yes, opinions and discussions. If and buts are always going to be a part of it.

To be clear I wasn't trying to invalidate your explanation, just pointing out that a lot of it is too close to call either which way. We'll never know, and that's part of the fun.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm going to whip a wedge preview of this weekend's games if I finish work at a decent time today, seeing as we've had trouble doing that for the socon for various reason

[longtimemocfan]

To be clear I wasn't trying to invalidate your explanation, just pointing out that a lot of it is too close to call either which way. We'll never know, and that's part of the fun.

I didn’t take it that way 👍 Agree it is fun to have a rational debate.

[Terrier19]

Agree. I watched that game. It was good Woff has some air capability now. That saved them. Funny listening to Citadel ESPN3 announcers - I could tell the Woff air attack pissed him off some.

Citadel could esasily have won that game. Easily

ABSOLUTELY ON ALL FRONTS....IM still laughing about the commentators in that one....It would be all Hype about a 2nd or 3rd down with an opportunity to get another stop, and then it would get real low and monotone and "another first down through the air fir Wofford..." I mean, not even trying to mask the bias..lol. Its all good, but was funny at the time. And Citadel absolutely could have won that game....we had to dig for sure. That last drive we put together to win it was special.

[BearDownMU]

I'd give an assist to the WCU defensive coordinator. The Cats could score last year, but their defense is monumentally better this season.

If there was an Assistant Award I would throw Coach Kolakowski's name into that hat. #8 scoring D last year to #2 so far this year (was #1 for several weeks). He's done a great job with that unit. Could very well change this weekend, but we've only allowed 4 passing TD's all season so far. And that's pretty good considering that our secondary was often looked at as a "soft spot" in prior seasons.

[PaladinFan]

HERO Sports showing four SoCon teams in the bracket. https://herosports.com/fcs/football-fcs-bracket-matchup-seeding-1st-round-hosts-as-of-today-ajaj?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Link&utm_campaign=FCS

A lot of this is in the balance, of course. If, say Elon gets a seed and Wofford does not, I do not necessarily 4 SoCon teams in the first round. There's a chance the Big South may make a play for a second bid, which also may knock out a SoCon team.

I think the best case scenario for the SoCon is for Wofford to keep winning, Furman and Samford to meet the final week to determine who wins 8 games and who wins 7, and WCU to win the rest of their FCS games. Obviously, as a Furman fan, I am pulling for some different results.

[FUBeAR]

HERO Sports showing four SoCon teams in the bracket. https://herosports.com/fcs/football-fcs-bracket-matchup-seeding-1st-round-hosts-as-of-today-ajaj?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Link&utm_campaign=FCS

A lot of this is in the balance, of course. If, say Elon gets a seed and Wofford does not, I do not necessarily 4 SoCon teams in the first round. There's a chance the Big South may make a play for a second bid, which also may knock out a SoCon team.

I think the best case scenario for the SoCon is for Wofford to keep winning, Furman and Samford to meet the final week to determine who wins 8 games and who wins 7, and WCU to win the rest of their FCS games. Obviously, as a Furman fan, I am pulling for some different results.

Yeah, barring the most monumental (word for the day) upset in the history of college football, I’m thinking I only really want to see 2 Teams from the SoCon in the Playoffs this year...as I want to see Samford pick up 2 more Conference losses, and at least 1 for WCU & CIT. I guess I wouldn’t mind WCU getting in at 7-5/5-3, but I don’t think they will & I really don’t think that will be their record. I’m thinking 6-6/4-4.

Very different from last year when FUBeAR started, in August, lobbying & behind-the-scenes deal-making with Congressmen & Russian provocateurs to get 4 SoCon Teams in.

Oh well, at least 1 of the 2 in is going to be 1 of the 2 ‘right’ Teams.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[wcugrad95]

Yeah, barring the most monumental (word for the day) upset in the history of college football, I’m thinking I only really want to see 2 Teams from the SoCon in the Playoffs this year...as I want to see Samford pick up 2 more Conference losses, and at least 1 for WCU & CIT. I guess I wouldn’t mind WCU getting in at 7-5/5-3, but I don’t think they will & I really don’t think that will be their record. I’m thinking 6-6/4-4.

Very different from last year when FUBeAR started, in August, lobbying & behind-the-scenes deal-making with Congressmen & Russian provocateurs to get 4 SoCon Teams in.

Oh well, at least 1 of the 2 in is going to be 1 of the 2 ‘right’ Teams.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Western could still finish with 8 wins even with a 5-3 conference record - if we beat UNC in the last game will that turn heads? :)

Maybe not since the Tarholes are a 1-win team.

[PaladinFan]

Western could still finish with 8 wins even with a 5-3 conference record - if we beat UNC in the last game will that turn heads? :)

Maybe not since the Tarholes are a 1-win team.

I agree with you.

There are scenarios that are good for Furman, and then some that are good for the conference. For instance, having a strong front runner like Wofford going into the playoffs is good for the SoCon, but Furman fans would be just fine seeing Wofford trip in one of their two final games. A weaker front runner will likely come at the cost of another playoff spot.

Similarly, if I knew Furman was going to beat Samford in a few weeks, I would pull for the Bulldogs to beat Mercer and ETSU so that Furman can knock off a highly ranked opponent on the road. If I knew Samford was going to beat Furman in a few weeks, I would pull for Mercer to win and hand the Bulldogs another loss.

Again, I think the only 4 bid scenario for the SoCon is for Wofford to be 9-2, Furman and Samford finish 8-3/7-4 and WCU to finish 8-4.

[Mocs123]

As a sidenote, are UTC and Samford the only teams still running a 4-3 defense?

Under Arth and DC Tom Koufman, UTC has switched to a 3-4 defense. I’m not sure that I like that change but it has happened.

[wcugrad95]

Under Arth and DC Tom Koufman, UTC has switched to a 3-4 defense. I’m not sure that I like that change but it has happened.

The 3-4 is not an overnight kind of thing, as it takes a different type of player (I know you all know this, just sayin'). WCU has some very athletic guys that this switch has benefited them, and against spread types of teams it has been pretty good. But when you take those same undersized athletic guys and don't have a platoon of people to sub-in that defense can clearly wear down against teams who are physical and want to just keep banging you inside (like 1/2 the conference with Wofford, Furman, Citadel, etc.). Western has been getting beat-up for their defense this past Saturday, but if you take away about 4 big plays they weren't awful. Problem is, those 4 plays count!

If you have a strong rotation of athletes and can run 8-10 different guys out there through the game it can work. But sometimes I miss having something like a good old-fashioned 5-2 defense when we are lining up against teams who are going to run it 50 times a game.

[Reign of Terrier]

I agree with you.

There are scenarios that are good for Furman, and then some that are good for the conference. For instance, having a strong front runner like Wofford going into the playoffs is good for the SoCon, but Furman fans would be just fine seeing Wofford trip in one of their two final games. A weaker front runner will likely come at the cost of another playoff spot.

Similarly, if I knew Furman was going to beat Samford in a few weeks, I would pull for the Bulldogs to beat Mercer and ETSU so that Furman can knock off a highly ranked opponent on the road. If I knew Samford was going to beat Furman in a few weeks, I would pull for Mercer to win and hand the Bulldogs another loss.

Again, I think the only 4 bid scenario for the SoCon is for Wofford to be 9-2, Furman and Samford finish 8-3/7-4 and WCU to finish 8-4.

The way I see it, an 8-4 Western team is definitely in. A 7-5 team is iffy. An 8-3 Samford team is in, but a 7-4 Samford team probably isn't (only 6 D1 wins and a bad loss to UTC)...if Kennesaw wins the autobid for the Big South that's the only way a 7-4 Samford team gets in IMO. A 7-4 Furman team gets in, so long as they still beat the Citadel.

I think Wofford's pretty much in now. Even if we lose to Chattanooga this week we'll still beat VMI (I'm sorry if that sounds arrogant) and I don't see why an 8-3 Wofford team gets left out.

Right now, I think it's more likely we get 3 in than 4. But I would put equal likelihood of 2 and 4

[PaladinFan]

The 3-4 is not an overnight kind of thing, as it takes a different type of player (I know you all know this, just sayin'). WCU has some very athletic guys that this switch has benefited them, and against spread types of teams it has been pretty good. But when you take those same undersized athletic guys and don't have a platoon of people to sub-in that defense can clearly wear down against teams who are physical and want to just keep banging you inside (like 1/2 the conference with Wofford, Furman, Citadel, etc.). Western has been getting beat-up for their defense this past Saturday, but if you take away about 4 big plays they weren't awful. Problem is, those 4 plays count!

If you have a strong rotation of athletes and can run 8-10 different guys out there through the game it can work. But sometimes I miss having something like a good old-fashioned 5-2 defense when we are lining up against teams who are going to run it 50 times a game.

Furman has had a bit easier of a transition, I think, for two reasons: (1) We have really strong NGs (Reid and Stokes), and (2) there were a number of guys on the roster that were complete misfits in a 4-3 system, but excel as a 2-point OLB in a 3-4. Two guys in particular, Chris Washington (5'11 230) and Dillon Vann (6'3 212) were "defensive ends" under Bruce Fowler's system, but really are not the body type you want for a hand-on-the-ground DE in a 4-3. They have been complete wrecking balls in a 3-4.

The reason all the teams are going to a 3-4 is fairly simple in my estimation - at the FCS level it is just much easier to find linebackers than defensive linemen. In a 4-3, you need more linemen, and typically big bookend DEs that often don't make it past the bigger programs.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford technically runs the multiple 50, which is kind of like the 3-4 but I have no idea what the nuances of it are

[ElCid]

The way I see it, an 8-4 Western team is definitely in. A 7-5 team is iffy. An 8-3 Samford team is in, but a 7-4 Samford team probably isn't (only 6 D1 wins and a bad loss to UTC)...if Kennesaw wins the autobid for the Big South that's the only way a 7-4 Samford team gets in IMO. A 7-4 Furman team gets in, so long as they still beat the Citadel.

I think Wofford's pretty much in now. Even if we lose to Chattanooga this week we'll still beat VMI (I'm sorry if that sounds arrogant) and I don't see why an 8-3 Wofford team gets left out.

Right now, I think it's more likely we get 3 in than 4. But I would put equal likelihood of 2 and 4

Think The Citadel gets in at 8-3? LOL, in my dreams.

Still a lot of moving parts....which just shows the conference parity lately.

[wcugrad95]

I have said all along you probably need to have no more than 2 conference losses. That means if either WCU or Samford lose another conference game they are probably out. A win against UNC for Western doesn't sound as crazy as it did when the season started, and maybe that would be enough to change some minds. But shy of a P5 OOC win on somebody's schedule (Citadel would also have that chance by winning out), I don't think a 5-3 SoCon team will make it.

[Reign of Terrier]

Think The Citadel gets in at 8-3? LOL, in my dreams.

Still a lot of moving parts....which just shows the conference parity lately.

If Citadel goes 8-3 (lol against Clemson, but hey it's a hypothetical) they do get in.

But again, they won't go 8-3. If the Socon got as much respect as the MVFC they would probably get in at 7-4 (especially if Furman and Samford went 7-4 and Western pulled the upset in Chapel Hill to go 8-4), but that won't happen.

[PaladinFan]

I have said all along you probably need to have no more than 2 conference losses. That means if either WCU or Samford lose another conference game they are probably out. A win against UNC for Western doesn't sound as crazy as it did when the season started, and maybe that would be enough to change some minds. But shy of a P5 OOC win on somebody's schedule (Citadel would also have that chance by winning out), I don't think a 5-3 SoCon team will make it.

As a fan of a team that thumped UNC once in Chapel Hill and scared the pants off them 7 years later, anything's possible.

Still one of my favorite video clips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vmtEhSTCaI

Watch Jerome Felton (#45 the FB)

[gofurman]

As a fan of a team that thumped UNC once in Chapel Hill and scared the pants off them 7 years later, anything's possible.

Still one of my favorite video clips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vmtEhSTCaI

Watch Jerome Felton (#45 the FB)

As a fan on that same team let me remind people we beat UNC that day (1999) 28-3 and they had Julius Peppers !

think about that

[citdog]

As a fan on that same team let me remind people we beat UNC that day (1999) 28-3 and they had Julius Peppers !

think about that

NOBODY CARES you verminite baptist scum.

[gofurman]

NOBODY CARES you verminite baptist scum.

UNC did. They paid us 500K to lose !

[FurmanWins!!]

UNC did. They paid us 500K to lose !


Gotta love it!

That UNC win in 1999 marked the last time FU won 7 straight games, something we will accomplish again when we beat down CIT next week xthumbsupx

[ElCid]

If Citadel goes 8-3 (lol against Clemson, but hey it's a hypothetical) they do get in.

But again, they won't go 8-3. If the Socon got as much respect as the MVFC they would probably get in at 7-4 (especially if Furman and Samford went 7-4 and Western pulled the upset in Chapel Hill to go 8-4), but that won't happen.

What would be interesting to see is if The Citadel wins out, sans Clemson, and both Furman and WCU lose out, and Samford wins out. Wofford will obviously get in st 9-2 and get seed if they win out SOCON games and even lose to USC. Samford gets in, no seed at 8-3. I think we have argument as one of the "last in" at 7-4 in that case. Obviously a tall order for us to win both, but WCU will be close especially with Adams out, and with a playoff chance on the line, the boys might be up for Furman. But I think with two wins over WCU and Furman to close out would seal deal. Our three loses were a while ago and two will have been to Wofford and Samford. I like it. We just have to win.

But it gets bad for everyone, if we beat Furman and Furman beats Samford. Then Samford is 7-4, Furman is 7-4, we are 7-4, if we beat WCU that is. Samford and us sit in that case and maybe Furman goes. But the clog of 7-4 teams would not be good for the SOCON. It would be really bad if Wofford double choked (not probable at all).

Going to be a fun couple of weeks.

[PaladinFan]

What would be interesting to see is if The Citadel wins out, sans Clemson, and both Furman and WCU lose out, and Samford wins out. Wofford will obviously get in st 9-2 and get seed if they win out SOCON games and even lose to USC. Samford gets in, no seed at 8-3. I think we have argument as one of the "last in" at 7-4 in that case. Obviously a tall order for us to win both, but WCU will be close especially with Adams out, and with a playoff chance on the line, the boys might be up for Furman. But I think with two wins over WCU and Furman to close out would seal deal. Our three loses were a while ago and two will have been to Wofford and Samford. I like it. We just have to win.

But it gets bad for everyone, if we beat Furman and Furman beats Samford. Then Samford is 7-4, Furman is 7-4, we are 7-4, if we beat WCU that is. Samford and us sit in that case and maybe Furman goes. But the clog of 7-4 teams would not be good for the SOCON. It would be really bad if Wofford double choked (not probable at all).

Going to be a fun couple of weeks.

Realistically, if you have a 7 win SoCon team, I think they will get consideration. I think the Citadel and Furman will have better cases at 7 wins than Samford or WCU because (1) they play 11 games, and (2) they didn't play a D2 school. That said, I'd rather not be sitting in 4th at the end of the season.

[wcugrad95]

What would be interesting to see is if The Citadel wins out, sans Clemson, and both Furman and WCU lose out, and Samford wins out. Wofford will obviously get in st 9-2 and get seed if they win out SOCON games and even lose to USC. Samford gets in, no seed at 8-3. I think we have argument as one of the "last in" at 7-4 in that case. Obviously a tall order for us to win both, but WCU will be close especially with Adams out, and with a playoff chance on the line, the boys might be up for Furman. But I think with two wins over WCU and Furman to close out would seal deal. Our three loses were a while ago and two will have been to Wofford and Samford. I like it. We just have to win.

But it gets bad for everyone, if we beat Furman and Furman beats Samford. Then Samford is 7-4, Furman is 7-4, we are 7-4, if we beat WCU that is. Samford and us sit in that case and maybe Furman goes. But the clog of 7-4 teams would not be good for the SOCON. It would be really bad if Wofford double choked (not probable at all).

Going to be a fun couple of weeks.

I don't think that would be interesting at all ��

[Reign of Terrier]

Realistically, if you have a 7 win SoCon team, I think they will get consideration. I think the Citadel and Furman will have better cases at 7 wins than Samford or WCU because (1) they play 11 games, and (2) they didn't play a D2 school. That said, I'd rather not be sitting in 4th at the end of the season.

Citadel played D2 Newberry. a 7 win Furman/Western has a better resume by virute of not playing any D2s.

[SCPALADIN]

Citadel played D2 Newberry. a 7 win Furman/Western has a better resume by virute of not playing any D2s.

Correct. There is no scenario where a 7-4 Citadel team makes the playoffs...only way in would be to win the remaining three games.

[PaladinFan]

I had forgotten about Newberry.

[ElCid]

Citadel played D2 Newberry. a 7 win Furman/Western has a better resume by virute of not playing any D2s.

Yes....even though, at least Massey has Newberry rated much higher than VMI....ouch...but yes. But if it plays out where we beat Furman, we would also have recent H2H. And Furman would have it over Samford, recently, and Samford would over us, much earlier. It would be yucky. They would probably give nod to Furman (Colgate win and close Elon loss).

[FCSfan]

HERO Sports showing four SoCon teams in the bracket. https://herosports.com/fcs/football-fcs-bracket-matchup-seeding-1st-round-hosts-as-of-today-ajaj?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Link&utm_campaign=FCS

A lot of this is in the balance, of course. If, say Elon gets a seed and Wofford does not, I do not necessarily 4 SoCon teams in the first round. There's a chance the Big South may make a play for a second bid, which also may knock out a SoCon team.

I think the best case scenario for the SoCon is for Wofford to keep winning, Furman and Samford to meet the final week to determine who wins 8 games and who wins 7, and WCU to win the rest of their FCS games. Obviously, as a Furman fan, I am pulling for some different results.

Elon will not get by New Hampshire and James Madison so a seed is likely out of their future

[Reign of Terrier]

Correct. There is no scenario where a 7-4 Citadel team makes the playoffs...only way in would be to win the remaining three games.

I won't say there's no scenario...just that such a scenario would require a lot of losses from a lot of different teams across the country which is so improbably and massive that it may as well be impossible.

[PaladinFan]

Good bit: http://www.furmansportsreport.com/2017/11/defensive-improvement-validated-at.html?spref=tw


As a result, the Paladins have the SoCon's top scoring offense (36.3 points per game) and scoring defense (18.8) in conference games.

[Reign of Terrier]

Elon will not get by New Hampshire and James Madison so a seed is likely out of their future

Would be interesting to see Furman and Elon rematch in the first round then go to Wofford/JMU. I think that's a likely outcome.

[wcugrad95]

A 7-4 Citadel would be right where a 7-4 Western was in 2015. We had 2 SEC games, went 5-2 in SoCon, but we played Mars Hill instead of a Pioneer team and it cost us (only 6 D-I wins). I would argue that year Mars Hill was better than playing a Davidson or Stetson and our only non-SEC losses came to a Citadel team who made the playoffs and UTC who was #4 at the time, but that didn't matter.

[wcugrad95]

Would be interesting to see Furman and Elon rematch in the first round then go to Wofford/JMU. I think that's a likely outcome.

I also see some of these brackets that could match a SoCon team with Kennesaw in the opening round. They would try to avoid that if Samford is in because of the rematch (they don't have to avoid, but they claim they would try). I haven't seen much of Kennesaw, but given the schedule they play I would like any of the top half or our league to draw them. Would seem like a better team to play versus the unknown of many of the other schools (that would also probably be a flight rather than a bus).

[walliver]

To be honest, so far, no SoCon team has a great OOC win. Samford beating Kennesaw is as close as we come. FU beating Colgate (now 5-4) is a decent win, but not going to impress the committee. Other than that, we have wins over Gardner-Webb, PC, Jacksonville (not state), Davidson and a bunch of D2's (and 1 D2 loss).

Obviously, if Mercer beats Bama (ain't gonna happen), The Citadel beats Clemson (The Tiggers shut down Georgia Tech's option), Wofford beats South Carolina (this ain't the same Chicken team that lost to the Citadel), or Western beats North Carolina (possible if Western's QB back 100% by then, but still unlikely), that changes things.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'd say the odds are very high at this point that we're going to have a Socon rematch in the second round. Higher than you would expect. In the same way the odds of a "south carolina bracket" were high last year, same with the socon.

Between Kennesaw/Elon/Furman/Samford/Wofford and the outside shot of a MEAC at large team from North Carolina (A&T or Central) I think you're going to see a Socon team with a seed (either Wofford or Furman) and they play either Kennesaw/Samford or Wofford/Furman/Elon/that NC team in the second round.

Bank on it if Kennesaw and Samford make the field and if Elon drops a couple.

[PaladinFan]

Would be interesting to see Furman and Elon rematch in the first round then go to Wofford/JMU. I think that's a likely outcome.

Let me say, if Furman got cracks at both Elon and Wofford, I wouldn't hate it.

[Reign of Terrier]

Let me say, if Furman got cracks at both Elon and Wofford, I wouldn't hate it.

I'd say the probability goes up if Furman loses to Samford and Elon either drops both UNH and JMU or just get whalloped by JMU

[PaladinFan]

I'd say the probability goes up if Furman loses to Samford and Elon either drops both UNH and JMU or just get whalloped by JMU

How the committee looks at Wofford and Elon will be interesting. I can see one of those two teams getting a seed, but probably not both.

[ElCid]

Obviously, if Mercer beats Bama (ain't gonna happen), The Citadel beats Clemson (The Tiggers shut down Georgia Tech's option), Wofford beats South Carolina (this ain't the same Chicken team that lost to the Citadel), or Western beats North Carolina (possible if Western's QB back 100% by then, but still unlikely), that changes things.

I like the optimism.

[Reign of Terrier]

How the committee looks at Wofford and Elon will be interesting. I can see one of those two teams getting a seed, but probably not both.

I think Elon's more likely to get a seed if they're conference champions or played decently against JMU; but if they're 8-3 I don't see them getting one over 9-2, conference champion Wofford.

This may sound really arrogant of me but I just do not see Wofford losing to VMI. As far as I'm concerned, this week against Chattanooga is the most important for us in terms of playoff positioning just because the spectrum of possibilities are wider. An 8-3 Wofford team hasn't missed the field since the expansion to 20+ teams; we've only once been a seed and I think we may gotten one bye ever. So even losing this week wouldn't ruin anything for us (other than being a royal choke job for the Socon crowd) compared to other Wofford teams

[PaladinFan]

I think Elon's more likely to get a seed if they're conference champions or played decently against JMU; but if they're 8-3 I don't see them getting one over 9-2, conference champion Wofford.

This may sound really arrogant of me but I just do not see Wofford losing to VMI. As far as I'm concerned, this week against Chattanooga is the most important for us in terms of playoff positioning just because the spectrum of possibilities are wider. An 8-3 Wofford team hasn't missed the field since the expansion to 20+ teams; we've only once been a seed and I think we may gotten one bye ever. So even losing this week wouldn't ruin anything for us (other than being a royal choke job for the Socon crowd) compared to other Wofford teams

I do think seeding and placement is going to be where Wofford will have to contend with their "ugly" wins. Winning gets you a ticket, but does not guarantee your seat.

I could absolutely see an 8-3 squad with an impressive resume jumping a 9-2 Wofford team for a seed. That is especially true if Wofford ekes out another win against UTC and doesn't look particularly good against VMI.

[wcugrad95]

The number of 8+ win teams is also going to be a problem for any of those 7-win SoCon teams. I do not question at all that the guys in the top-half of our league would not have 8 or 9 wins if we were playing in some of those other leagues, but as has been noted we don't have any OOC wins to hang our hats on (individually or as a conference). The best teams we play are in our 3rd ranked conference. We know that getting 5+ conference wins is a very big deal, but will the committee? I don't think they will, and they will use this year to reward the 8 and 9 win teams from other places. if you are not 6-2 in SoCon, you probably are not going.

[PaladinFan]

The number of 8+ win teams is also going to be a problem for any of those 7-win SoCon teams. I do not question at all that the guys in the top-half of our league would not have 8 or 9 wins if we were playing in some of those other leagues, but as has been noted we don't have any OOC wins to hang our hats on (individually or as a conference). The best teams we play are in our 3rd ranked conference. We know that getting 5+ conference wins is a very big deal, but will the committee? I don't think they will, and they will use this year to reward the 8 and 9 win teams from other places. if you are not 6-2 in SoCon, you probably are not going.

Well, Samford's win over Kennesaw State is looking better. Colgate also appears to be positioning for the Patriot League's title. So, that would give two OOC wins over playoff teams.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think it's worth mentioning that 6 of Wofford's 8 wins last year were competitive in the fourth quarter. The only two that weren't were ETSU (which wasn't full scholarship) and Johnson C Smith (D2).

Winning ugly is Wofford's MO. Arguably, if the next 2 games aren't competitive in the fourth quarter we're doing better.

Wofford's positioning with the committee comes down to whether or not they value body of work (total wins) and miscellaneous priors (how we did last season) or just average output. It's hard to say one way or another how they'll be judged, because 99% of the time average output is indicative of both. Wofford is just a quintessentially weird case.

[SU DOG]

I also see some of these brackets that could match a SoCon team with Kennesaw in the opening round. They would try to avoid that if Samford is in because of the rematch (they don't have to avoid, but they claim they would try). I haven't seen much of Kennesaw, but given the schedule they play I would like any of the top half or our league to draw them. Would seem like a better team to play versus the unknown of many of the other schools (that would also probably be a flight rather than a bus).

Don't forget about Monmouth. The Big South race is interesting. As of right now Kennesaw State and Monmouth are both 7-1. KSU is the underdog vs Montana State out there this week, and Monmouth has Presby and GWU both at home before going to Kennesaw GA. KSU still has to play CSU at home, but that team isn't the powerhouse of the past. That last game in Kennesaw will probably be for all the Big South marbles, but this conference will possibly have 2 that get in.

[wcugrad95]

Don't forget about Monmouth. The Big South race is interesting. As of right now Kennesaw State and Monmouth are both 7-1. KSU is the underdog vs Montana State out there this week, and Monmouth has Presby and GWU both at home before going to Kennesaw GA. KSU still has to play CSU at home, but that team isn't the powerhouse of the past. That last game in Kennesaw will probably be for all the Big South marbles, but this conference will possibly have 2 that get in.

Yep - that is what I was saying in another post. This could be the year they would reward that "other" Big South (or similar) team because they got to 8 wins. Doesn't matter that any of the top probably 6 teams in the SoCon would get to 8 or more wins with some of those schedules (would anybody be surprised to see Citadel or Mercer beat Kennesaw?). If 2 teams get in from there, that is 1 less team getting in from the SoCon.

[PaladinFan]

I think it's worth mentioning that 6 of Wofford's 8 wins last year were competitive in the fourth quarter. The only two that weren't were ETSU (which wasn't full scholarship) and Johnson C Smith (D2).

Winning ugly is Wofford's MO. Arguably, if the next 2 games aren't competitive in the fourth quarter we're doing better.

Wofford's positioning with the committee comes down to whether or not they value body of work (total wins) and miscellaneous priors (how we did last season) or just average output. It's hard to say one way or another how they'll be judged, because 99% of the time average output is indicative of both. Wofford is just a quintessentially weird case.

Different story last year, though. Wofford didn't win the conference and didn't get a seed.

Besides, I'm not disagreeing with you. Winning (ugly or otherwise) gets you a seat at the table. Where that seat is becomes a beauty contest.

[Reign of Terrier]

Different story last year, though. Wofford didn't win the conference and didn't get a seed.

Besides, I'm not disagreeing with you. Winning (ugly or otherwise) gets you a seat at the table. Where that seat is becomes a beauty contest.

Yeah, but winning the conference makes this a different story all together in itself. The Citadel won a lot of games ugly last year too.

[ElCid]

Yeah, but winning the conference makes this a different story all together in itself. The Citadel won a lot of games ugly last year too.

Actually, The Citadel won all of its regular season FCS games last year...ugly or not. That buys you a lot, especially in a good confetence. But it didn't get us out of a rematch. Hate them!

[Terrier19]

I wouldn't mind a rematch with Furman.....not at all......Especially if it is to get to the quarterfinals again.......I'd be completely fine with that bracket.

Now for the SoCon in general I would like Furman and the other SoCon playoff bound teams to be in separate brackets to make some noise and represent the conference well....Helps the SoCon going forward in future seasons.....and in regards to the beauty contest of Wofford being a SoCon champ getting jumped seed by an 8-3 league champ from a different conference, I don't see that happening. Wofford making a quarterfinal run and giving Youngstown all they wanted bought Wofford alot of good exposure from last season. These close wins haven't had a dramatic effect on Wofford in the rankings this season either, as they lost to Samford and barely dropped. A SoCon Champ Wofford at 9-2 will be a SEED. I think around the 5-6 line......IMO

[PaladinFan]

I wouldn't mind a rematch with Furman.....not at all......Especially if it is to get to the quarterfinals again.......I'd be completely fine with that bracket.

Now for the SoCon in general I would like Furman and the other SoCon playoff bound teams to be in separate brackets to make some noise and represent the conference well....Helps the SoCon going forward in future seasons.....and in regards to the beauty contest of Wofford being a SoCon champ getting jumped seed by an 8-3 league champ from a different conference, I don't see that happening. Wofford making a quarterfinal run and giving Youngstown all they wanted bought Wofford alot of good exposure from last season. These close wins haven't had a dramatic effect on Wofford in the rankings this season either, as they lost to Samford and barely dropped. A SoCon Champ Wofford at 9-2 will be a SEED. I think around the 5-6 line......IMO

There are at least one bracket (maybe more) where Wofford is jumped by Furman. So, Wofford isn't jumped by an 8-3 champ from another conference, but an 8-3 champ from the SoCon.

Hypothetically (and really because I enjoy rankling the feathers of Terrier fans), Furman ends up 8-3 with resounding wins over Citadel and Samford. With as much movement as there will be in the coming weeks, Furman could end up ranked in the top 15.

Wofford ekes out a win against UTC, doesn't look great against VMI, and then loses to USC convincingly. They finish 9-2.

Wofford is the autobid. That doesn't guarantee anything but a seat at the table. Furman is also in by virtue of being 8-3.

I think it then goes to the resumes. Furman and Wofford both win a share of the title. Furman played a tougher schedule. Furman has more impressive performances against every like opponent than Wofford.

Now, that's a lot of "ifs," but if all of those things happened, I think the committee would by perfectly justified in favoring Furman's body of work over Wofford's 1 point win at home in Week 1.

[Terrier19]

There are at least one bracket (maybe more) where Wofford is jumped by Furman. So, Wofford isn't jumped by an 8-3 champ from another conference, but an 8-3 champ from the SoCon.

Hypothetically (and really because I enjoy rankling the feathers of Terrier fans), Furman ends up 8-3 with resounding wins over Citadel and Samford. With as much movement as there will be in the coming weeks, Furman could end up ranked in the top 15.

Wofford ekes out a win against UTC, doesn't look great against VMI, and then loses to USC convincingly. They finish 9-2.

Wofford is the autobid. That doesn't guarantee anything but a seat at the table. Furman is also in by virtue of being 8-3.

I think it then goes to the resumes. Furman and Wofford both win a share of the title. Furman played a tougher schedule. Furman has more impressive performances against every like opponent than Wofford.

Now, that's a lot of "ifs," but if all of those things happened, I think the committee would by perfectly justified in favoring Furman's body of work over Wofford's 1 point win at home in Week 1.

Cant really "rankle" my feathers about it....I don't see that happening even with your scenario playing out....and in reality...that might be exactly how the games go.......Wofford may very well struggle to beat both Chatt and VMI....hopefully we win both......And Furman might blow out their remaining games.....Even that happening won't get Furman over the Autobid Wofford, who beat Furman directly...was the conference champ...and was the team that represented the SoCon to the quarterfinals last season......

[FurmanWins!!]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb6-mVTY3-w&feature=youtu.be

[Purpleglasses]

Terrier, time to stop living off last year...if you get the autobid and seeded over FU, then rest assured it will only be based on this season.
if we are living on last year, then even CIT would be able to get it, and we both know that is not happening! LOL.

[Terrier19]

Terrier, time to stop living off last year...if you get the autobid and seeded over FU, then rest assured it will only be based on this season.
if we are living on last year, then even CIT would be able to get it, and we both know that is not happening! LOL.

7-1.....Living off of that...shrugs

[Terrier19]

if we are living on last year, then even CIT would be able to get it, and we both know that is not happening! LOL.

LMAO....SHEESH....

[PaladinFan]

Cant really "rankle" my feathers about it....I don't see that happening even with your scenario playing out....and in reality...that might be exactly how the games go.......Wofford may very well struggle to beat both Chatt and VMI....hopefully we win both......And Furman might blow out their remaining games.....Even that happening won't get Furman over the Autobid Wofford, who beat Furman directly...was the conference champ...and was the team that represented the SoCon to the quarterfinals last season......

What Wofford did in the quarterfinals last year doesn't matter.

If Furman and Wofford both finish in first with the same conference record, they will both be SoCon champs. The "autobid" is just useful for the discussion of who is guaranteed the SoCon's one automatic slot to the post season tournament. Other than in that limited context, it does not matter.

Besides, you are agreeing on my general point. These committees at both the FBS/FCS level have to balance a number of factors. I tend to think they look at the entire body of work over the results of one game, at least that is what the committee is doing at the FBS level, where they jumped Georgia over undefeated Alabama and seem to be more concerned with Clemons' entire season than one game against Syracuse.

[ElCid]

Terrier, time to stop living off last year...if you get the autobid and seeded over FU, then rest assured it will only be based on this season.
if we are living on last year, then even CIT would be able to get it, and we both know that is not happening! LOL.

Well I hope you are pointing that Citdog and not The Citadel in general since I know. Think he knows as well. But the season ain't over yet.


In any event, Furman sucks this year as well as last year.

[Reign of Terrier]

Terrier, time to stop living off last year...if you get the autobid and seeded over FU, then rest assured it will only be based on this season.
if we are living on last year, then even CIT would be able to get it, and we both know that is not happening! LOL.

Candidate for "thinking I'm making a smart comment but completely misunderstanding a phrase used in a comment" post of the day.

Last year matters in the sense that JMU may be the #1 seed and NDSU the #2 simply because they beat them last year and neither has lost since. The same principle applies for giving a Wofford a seed. You can't think Wofford was better last year when statistically they're the same. The only difference is strength of schedule (the socon is harder).

Put another way, if JMU is not the number one seed, I'd put a higher probability that 8-3 Furman jumps 9-2 Wofford. But if not, look for Wofford to get a seed regardless if Furman wins out or not.

[Purpleglasses]

If Furman Sucks, the Mercer Sucks worse, and CIT sucks worse than that by virtue of your loss to them...
so by your own logic, we are still ahead of CIT...and WCU...and Mercer...and ETSU...and CHAT...and vmi.
but we will settle that point in TR in two weeks.
(btw...words like "virtue" and "logic" may be new to you, so please if you need help understanding their meaning, please let any Furman fan know) xlolx (just having fun here)

[Reign of Terrier]

If Furman Sucks, the Mercer Sucks worse, and CIT sucks worse than that by virtue of your loss to them...
so by your own logic, we are still ahead of CIT...and WCU...and Mercer...and ETSU...and CHAT...and vmi.
but we will settle that point in TR in two weeks.
(btw...words like "virtue" and "logic" may be new to you, so please if you need help understanding their meaning, please let any Furman fan know) xlolx (just having fun here)

>insults the intelligence of other posters
>yet doesn't know how basic elements of the interface (like quoting) works

My god this post sucks almost as much as Furman

[FurmanWins!!]

Go Mocs!

[Purpleglasses]

hey little Pup... if this is what you are trying to do, it will not work.
I am just having a little fun during an off week, and before a rivalry game with the Bellhops
and to answer you post above about "Candidate for "thinking I'm making a smart comment but completely misunderstanding a phrase used in a comment" post of the day"
read your own post...you totally supported your argument for being seeded with your last comment...and was the team that represented the SoCon to the quarterfinals last season......
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26403&stc=1

[Reign of Terrier]

Furman still sucks

[FUGameBreaker]

FCS team of the Month:
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-vote-fcs-team-of-the-month-october-byby

[ElCid]

Go Mocs!

Go Bye.

[LarryBoy]

Dear fellow Furman fans (really just speaking to a couple of you):

Chill.

We've won 6 games. 2 to play. 2 very difficult games. We haven't won anything yet.

Don't Chattownmocs yourself.

[Terrier19]

Go Mocs!


LOL.....

[Reign of Terrier]

It's gonna take every fiber of my being to not post "Furman's back baby" when they lose to either the Citadel or Samford ;)

[Purpleglasses]

Point taken, having a little fun, but you are correct...we have 3 Saturdays left with 2 tough games...I'll let Coach Hendrix and the Paladins do out talking on the field...they have been carrying the water pretty well lately...

[PaladinFan]

It's gonna take every fiber of my being to not post "Furman's back baby" when they lose to either the Citadel or Samford ;)

The good news is that we've vastly exceeded anyone's expectations. So, it's a win either way. When you expect to win 4 games and are sitting at 6-3 with two to play, what happens in the last two isn't going to change my optimism.

Besides, it's time for a joke.

What's the difference between a Wofford student and a Furman student?

Both got into Wofford.

[PaladinFan]

Dear fellow Furman fans (really just speaking to a couple of you):

Chill.

We've won 6 games. 2 to play. 2 very difficult games. We haven't won anything yet.

Don't Chattownmocs yourself.

I've got nearly 10,000 posts on this forum over ten years. I've eaten enough crow for it not to bother me anymore.

[Reign of Terrier]

The good news is that we've vastly exceeded anyone's expectations. So, it's a win either way. When you expect to win 4 games and are sitting at 6-3 with two to play, what happens in the last two isn't going to change my optimism.

Besides, it's time for a joke.

What's the difference between a Wofford student and a Furman student?

Both got into Wofford.

No, it's that neither looked at the Citadel

[Purpleglasses]

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/4000000/LarryBoy-Cartoon-Adventures-larryboy-4057883-1024-768.jpg

[ElCid]

Dear fellow Furman fans (really just speaking to a couple of you):

Chill.

We've won 6 games. 2 to play. 2 very difficult games. We haven't won anything yet.

Don't Chattownmocs yourself.

A voice of caution, too funny. I had my afternoon smile....Thanks! A lot of cheerleading going on.

[ElCid]

It's gonna take every fiber of my being to not post "Furman's back baby" when they lose to either the Citadel or Samford ;)

I'll flip you for it.

[Purpleglasses]

Should be a good weekend to watch some SoCon.
I think Mercer could knock off Samford...and Chatt is coming around and have talent...
might shake things up even more than they did last week.

[FurmanWins!!]

FCS team of the Month:
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-vote-fcs-team-of-the-month-october-byby


sweet xhighfivex

[PaladinFan]

Should be a good weekend to watch some SoCon.
I think Mercer could knock off Samford...and Chatt is coming around and have talent...
might shake things up even more than they did last week.

All seriousness, Samford needs to be terrified of Mercer. Road game against a good defensive team coming off a bye week.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'll flip you for it.

I believe if Citadel wins, you earn the right

[Purpleglasses]

and a team that got down early to the 1-7 Mocs, and had to come back to take the lead, and then lose it anyway...
this could make for an interesting situation. #identitycrisis

[Reign of Terrier]

Samford is still a team I cannot get a read for. Their defense is opportunistic, but not great.

Kennesaw, Wofford, Western and Citadel were all able to run wild on them, but turnovers did 3 of those teams in. Their offense has had one good quarter against the Citadel and they've racked up yardage against everyone, but other than that Citadel game (and questionable defense Western Carolina) they've not exactly racked up points on anyone.

[ElCid]

Samford is still a team I cannot get a read for. Their defense is opportunistic, but not great.

Kennesaw, Wofford, Western and Citadel were all able to run wild on them, but turnovers did 3 of those teams in. Their offense has had one good quarter against the Citadel and they've racked up yardage against everyone, but other than that Citadel game (and questionable defense Western Carolina) they've not exactly racked up points on anyone.

Samford has a lot of three and outs. If they had any sort of sustained running game, they would be very scary. Their one dimension makes them beatable. Oh to have that one quarter back.

[PaladinFan]

Samford has a lot of three and outs. If they had any sort of sustained running game, they would be very scary. Their one dimension makes them beatable. Oh to have that one quarter back.

I'm interested in the thoughts of Samford fans on their long term sustainability. They've been a good team, but there's a little Elonish feeling around them.

Elon was a playoff team with Scott Riddle running a similar offensive system, but after he graduated they fell off the table for a number of years. Is Samford expecting the same result after Hodges graduates?

[ElCid]

I'm interested in the thoughts of Samford fans on their long term sustainability. They've been a good team, but there's a little Elonish feeling around them.

Elon was a playoff team with Scott Riddle running a similar offensive system, but after he graduated they fell off the table for a number of years. Is Samford expecting the same result after Hodges graduates?

THAT is a really good question. And the Elonish comparison is a very descriptive one whether it is accurate in Samford's case or not.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm interested in the thoughts of Samford fans on their long term sustainability. They've been a good team, but there's a little Elonish feeling around them.

Elon was a playoff team with Scott Riddle running a similar offensive system, but after he graduated they fell off the table for a number of years. Is Samford expecting the same result after Hodges graduates?

I think it's a Hatcher thing more than anything. It's a system. Maybe Hodges is head and shoulders above anyone else they get but they better hope not.

[SU DOG]

With the ETSU debacle last year and UTC this year we Samford fans aren't exactly in euphoria. Don't get me wrong, UTC has some good talent, but to try a double reverse flea-flicker on 3rd and one is insane IMO. Then there is the throwback pass to an O-Lineman on 4th and 7 from the UTC 11. Also if you take away Hodges' 16 yard scamper we averaged less than ONE YARD per carry. The Mocs' defense is not THAT good and that stat is also INSANE! :( We are waiting to see what the final 3 games will be like, but our optimism isn't exactly bubbling over. We do have Hodges for one more year, and most all of his WRs will be back. I think that if we can't make the Playoffs this year, however, when can we make them? I guess that folks on here think I'm nutty to rave about our talent, but it is just a fact that we are WAY underachieving, IMO. Can we still salvage things? This Saturday is the first step in finding out.

[SU DOG]

Here is a link to some Samford rushing game information that I posted on our Samford Board. I'm afraid it is a chilling story of how we have digressed in our running game the last few seasons. Interesting, and VERY concerning.

http://samfordbulldogs.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7582

[wcugrad95]

Side note for SU DOG - I live right outside of Orlando, and a kid from my daughter's high school (Tirrek Hooten) signed with Samford coming out of the 2014 class but never made it to school there. He now shows up on Austin Peay's roster. The kid was very talented playing Florida high school ball, and I figured he either didn't want to go that far (but then he ended up farther away in Tennessee) or maybe you guys had a bunch of RB talent. I know lots of things go into successfully running the football, and I know Samford is not geared to do it. Is it truly just the scheme, or do you guys not have the right kids to run the football?

[Reign of Terrier]

Samford is the most consistently average team in the Socon. Only like 2 years in the past 8 have they finished worse or better than 7-4 or 6-5

[PaladinFan]

Samford is the most consistently average team in the Socon. Only like 2 years in the past 8 have they finished worse or better than 7-4 or 6-5

He’s been with two teams, but check out Bobby Lamb. He’s been within a game of .500 something like 8 of 13 seasons coaching in the SoCon.

[SU DOG]

Side note for SU DOG - I live right outside of Orlando, and a kid from my daughter's high school (Tirrek Hooten) signed with Samford coming out of the 2014 class but never made it to school there. He now shows up on Austin Peay's roster. The kid was very talented playing Florida high school ball, and I figured he either didn't want to go that far (but then he ended up farther away in Tennessee) or maybe you guys had a bunch of RB talent. I know lots of things go into successfully running the football, and I know Samford is not geared to do it. Is it truly just the scheme, or do you guys not have the right kids to run the football?

Don't know what happened to Hooten, but it was 2016 that he came out of HS by every source I find. You're right in that he never showed up here.

Just want to list just 3 of our RBs and show what I mean by talent that we have. I know HS plaudits don't always mean a lots, BUT I imagine this is surprising to some on here. It ain't like we don't sign some good players.xcoffeex

Roland Adams - 5/10, 210 Jr. Highly touted out of Florence AL who also had an offer from Army. Over 1,000 yards rushing as a HS senior.
Trevon Paulk - 5/9, 190 Jr. A Juco xfer. Out of HS, he was a 4**** recruit by ESPN, and a 3*** by ALL other services.
Justin Curry - 5/10, 205 Soph. All-State in Arkansas, and a 3*** player by 247Sports. Had offers(not just interest) from Ark. State, UConn, Perdue among others.

[longtimemocfan]

The key to Samford’s success the rest way could be in how well Kelvin McKnight can play. I know he went out of game last Saturday and don’t remember him returning. He is the best or one of the best wideouts in the conference.

[gofurman]

FCS team of the Month:
https://herosports.com/fcs/football-vote-fcs-team-of-the-month-october-byby

So far it is FURMAN !!! FCS team of the month.

Yet more proof of great things Hendrix is doing there.

**No matter this playoff 'stuff' ☺️ We have already taken a 3-8 senior laden FU squad and played 27 freshman and are currently at 6 wins. Playoffs or not FU is back on the rise. And despite the rivalries etc that is good for the SoCon. MV and CAA taking too many bids.

Best OOC wins for SoCon? Sammy v KSU. FU crushing Colgate. And I wish FU coulda had Elon a few games later. I would like another shot.


Thiugh i I do have to tease PaladinFan who says we spotted Elon 21 points. We spotted them 14 points, not 21. They straight drove the field to score the first 7. THEN we fumbled away 14 points

ANYWAY, even if FU misses playoffs the fact this discussion is even taking place is amazing. We are coming back fast ! I could easily see us losing to Citadel or Sam or both. Citadel has an AWESOME run D. Held Woff to 80 rushing yards. Wolff probably rushes for more yards vs USC than they did Citadel. M

Go SoCon!

[Smitty]

So far it is FURMAN !!! FCS team of the month.

Yet more proof of great things Hendrix is doing there.

**No matter this playoff 'stuff' ☺️ We have already taken a 3-8 senior laden FU squad and played 27 freshman and are currently at 6 wins. Playoffs or not FU is back on the rise. And despite the rivalries etc that is good for the SoCon. MV and CAA taking too many bids.

Best OOC wins for SoCon? Sammy v KSU. FU crushing Colgate. And I wish FU coulda had Elon a few games later. I would like another shot.


Thiugh i I do have to tease PaladinFan who says we spotted Elon 21 points. We spotted them 14 points, not 21. They straight drove the field to score the first 7. THEN we fumbled away 14 points

ANYWAY, even if FU misses playoffs the fact this discussion is even taking place is amazing. We are coming back fast ! I could easily see us losing to Citadel or Sam or both. Citadel has an AWESOME run D. Held Woff to 80 rushing yards. Wolff probably rushes for more yards vs USC than they did Citadel. M

Go SoCon!

Don't let your head get too big, The Citadel was in the same position and is experiencing some regression this year, the same may happen to you. It takes a while to repair a program

[Purpleglasses]

yep...it took Citadel 22 yrs to get back to the Playoffs after their 92 run to the Quarterfinals. Then two 2nd round runs.
In that time frame Furman won the SoCon Championship 4 times and made playoff runs 9 times with 4 Quarterfinal runs, 2 Semi Final Runs and one National Championship game run.
The longest drought for the playoffs was a 7 yr span from 2006-2013.
From 1982 Furman has appeared in the Playoffs 16 times and Citadel has appeared in 5.
Every year stands in its own history, but if there is any definition of a patient football fan, it would be a Citadel Fan.

I think Coach Hendrix can put us back on the playoff expectation rotation we are used too.
The Future looks bright.

[BearDownMU]

The key to Samford’s success the rest way could be in how well Kelvin McKnight can play. I know he went out of game last Saturday and don’t remember him returning. He is the best or one of the best wideouts in the conference.

Agreed. Been keeping an eye on this since we have Sammy this weekend. On their game notes for this week, he's listed as a starter. Could be some gamesmanship, but based on that, he's still starting.

[PaladinFan]

Agreed. Been keeping an eye on this since we have Sammy this weekend. On their game notes for this week, he's listed as a starter. Could be some gamesmanship, but based on that, he's still starting.

Over years of following such things, I think there is only a tangential relationship between the depth chart and who actually plays.

I think the only time you see a guy not listed on the depth chart is if he is unequivocally going to not play - like, he's not even in uniform.

[BearDownMU]

Over years of following such things, I think there is only a tangential relationship between the depth chart and who actually plays.

I think the only time you see a guy not listed on the depth chart is if he is unequivocally going to not play - like, he's not even in uniform.

Perhaps I didn't expound enough. I was sort of making the point that I had originally heard that the injury might be bad. Like, not playing bad.

Which may still be true, but it obviously isn't enough to get him off the depth chart.

[PaladinFan]

Perhaps I didn't expound enough. I was sort of making the point that I had originally heard that the injury might be bad. Like, not playing bad.

Which may still be true, but it obviously isn't enough to get him off the depth chart.

Furman had a linebacker with a "career ending neck injury" that showed up on the depth chart a few weeks ago. Who knows.

Realistically, the SIDs do the best job they can with the information they have.

[Reign of Terrier]

Furman had a linebacker with a "career ending neck injury" that showed up on the depth chart a few weeks ago. Who knows.

Realistically, the SIDs do the best job they can with the information they have.

Wofford's Center has been listed as the starter when he's been out with a knee injury, and listed as the backup when he started with a wrist injury last week against ETSU.

[FurmanWins!!]

Don't let your head get too big, The Citadel was in the same position and is experiencing some regression this year, the same may happen to you. It takes a while to repair a program


CIT will slowly dwindle to nothing with ole Mike Houston gone

[Reign of Terrier]

I disagree. Mike Houston definitely gave them a boost, and they probably don't go undefeated in the Socon last year without his recruits, but the Citadel has been steadily better than they were a decade (or so) ago since they brought in the option.

They probably can't win consistently without the option.

[ElCid]

CIT will slowly dwindle to nothing with ole Mike Houston gone

We dwindled pretty fast last year.

Pretty stupid assessment you got there.

[FurmanWins!!]

We dwindled pretty fast last year.

Pretty stupid assessment you got there.


9-0 in FCS then 0-1 in playoffs lol, Mike Houston effect xrotatehx Next!

[ElCid]

9-0 in FCS then 0-1 in playoffs lol, Mike Houston effect xrotatehx Next!

You are clueless.

Oh, and Furman sucks.

[FurmanWins!!]

https://twitter.com/PaladinFootball/status/926435763180462080

[walliver]

Mike Houston had great success with Kevin Higgins's recruits. Brent Thompson is primarily working with Mike Houston's recruits. If the Citadel had a real passing threat, they would be right in the hunt this year.

Mike Houston is obviously very good at taking the talent he has and making good things happen. The jury is still out on his recruiting ability IMHO. It may just be that he can't recruit at a military school, but it will be interesting so see how JMU fares in 2 years (if he stays that long).

[ElCid]

Mike Houston had great success with Kevin Higgins's recruits. Brent Thompson is primarily working with Mike Houston's recruits. If the Citadel had a real passing threat, they would be right in the hunt this year.

Mike Houston is obviously very good at taking the talent he has and making good things happen. The jury is still out on his recruiting ability IMHO. It may just be that he can't recruit at a military school, but it will be interesting so see how JMU fares in 2 years (if he stays that long).

Exactly. Houston didn't recruit this years seniors or last years.

But I will say I really don't think it is our passing ability as much as it was our very young O-line and b-back.

[Reign of Terrier]

9-0 in FCS then 0-1 in playoffs lol, Mike Houston effect xrotatehx Next!

You are making it really really easy to not pull for Furman this year

[FurmanWins!!]

You are making it really really easy to not pull for Furman this year


Come on man, as a Furman fan do you really think I am suppose to care what teams a Woff or CIT fan pulls for, nope

Besides I was paying no attention to Citadel until the ELCID kid started coming at me because he could not handle seeing some Furman posts or something idiotic like that lol, with that being the case I am now more than happy to give "my opinion" about the state of his program

"My opinion" is CIT will fall off the map more and more each year they get distanced from Mike Houston's coaching, simple yep, carry on

[FurmanWins!!]

Oh and you should not get caught up in the fact that I said "Furman's back baby" as such a big deal, just happy to beat a top 25 team and move in the poll again, I have not trash talked at all (until this citadel kid)
Just been showing excitement for FU football after the past 3 years of torture, that's all xthumbsupx

[citdog]

Come on man, as a Furman fan do you really think I am suppose to care what teams a Woff or CIT fan pulls for, nope

Besides I was paying no attention to Citadel until the ELCID kid started coming at me because he could not handle seeing some Furman posts or something idiotic like that lol, with that being the case I am now more than happy to give "my opinion" about the state of his program

"My opinion" is CIT will fall off the map more and more each year they get distanced from Mike Houston's coaching, simple yep, carry on

Did the furman guy get his little fe fe's hurt and his vag all sandy???

furman sucks

[FurmanWins!!]

Did the furman guy get his little fe fe's hurt and his vag all sandy???

furman sucks



xeyebrowx

[Reign of Terrier]

my rule of thumb is to not make grandiose predictions about another team (good or bad) until after you've played them.

Would be a shame if the Citadel didn't fade until they played Clemson, if ya know what I mean.

[FurmanWins!!]

my rule of thumb is to not make grandiose predictions about another team (good or bad) until after you've played them.

Would be a shame if the Citadel didn't fade until they played Clemson, if ya know what I mean.



I agree you are correct with that for sure, Ill drop it (for now xpeacex)

Anyways its our bye so I should just be enjoying the football weekend, lets see how it shakes out, best of luck to everyone and see you week 11

[Reign of Terrier]

One thing to look at in regards to Furman. Only 3 of the games they've played so far have been competitive in the fourth quarter (Wofford, Elon, Mercer); by competitive, I define that as the game being within 10 points or so in the final period.

Yes, yes I get it, Furman has piledriven many teams into submission and that indicates they're a better team (in aggregate) than wofford right now, but that's not my point here (obligatory disclaimer before I'm critical of a good team...sheesh). They are 1-2 in those close games this year, beating Mercer, while Mercer is known for blowing it in the fourth. I'm not here to imply that that means that game was a fluke, but I think the Samford and Citadel games will tell us a lot more than the Western Carolina and Mercer game did. If those games aren't close in the fourth with advantage Furman, obviously the Dins are for real (in the sense that they should be in the conversation for a seed, regardless of what Wofford does).

If it's a close game in the fourth and Furman pulls off both games I think you can clearly say that the Paladins have improved over the course of the year, in different yet more concrete ways. I recognize they are a young team and they're obviously getting better as the year progresses, but so is every team. I think optimistic fans like to see the performance of young teams and have mental forecast that their improvement will be linear or exponential, when it's more accurately logarithmic. For instance, Wofford was REALLY young last year, and we're still relatively young this year, but our improvement from last year to this year was more logarithmic than it was linear or exponential.

The next couple weeks will be a good experiment to see where exactly the Paladins are in terms of their maturity. If they still lose the close game, I'd temper the expectations. If they blow out the Citadel, I wouldn't be surprised, but I'd be surprised if they did that to Samford. If they blow out both teams, I'd say no question they are a top 10 team. But in a weird way, I would view a blowout against Citadel and fourth-quarter win against Samford better than if they blew both teams out. If Furman does that, I'd say they are a top five team (but obviously won't and shouldn't get that sort of respect from the committee or AGS).

The reason why is this:

Winning with a young teams is something any team can do, but winning competitive games against quality opponents is hard when 1 or 2 plays don't go your way. Right now, we have 2 of 3 data points that don't look good for Furman in that regard, but because they were early in the year and Furman is so young, I think there's valid reason to dismiss them if Furman gets clutch in the last two games.

Right now, I think Furman has a strong offense that will put them in a good position to win, no matter who they play. They have a defense that's average to good. For the sake of the playoffs and forecasting how the Paladins will do, we need to see how they play against teams that can match them on defense while also putting up points. I think the Citadel and Samford are the best teams to do that since Wofford and Elon (even better than Mercer, who has a great defense, but has had offensive efficiency problems all year). The Citadel has a good defense and as I've explained before their offense potentially could cause problems for the Paladins. Samford may not have the defense to stop Furman consistently, but they've been weird in stopping multiple option teams this year and they have a system that exploits Furman's defensive weaknesses.

[PaladinFan]

One thing to look at in regards to Furman. Only 3 of the games they've played so far have been competitive in the fourth quarter (Wofford, Elon, Mercer); by competitive, I define that as the game being within 10 points or so in the final period.

Yes, yes I get it, Furman has piledriven many teams into submission and that indicates they're a better team (in aggregate) than wofford right now, but that's not my point here (obligatory disclaimer before I'm critical of a good team...sheesh). They are 1-2 in those close games this year, beating Mercer, while Mercer is known for blowing it in the fourth. I'm not here to imply that that means that game was a fluke, but I think the Samford and Citadel games will tell us a lot more than the Western Carolina and Mercer game did. If those games aren't close in the fourth with advantage Furman, obviously the Dins are for real (in the sense that they should be in the conversation for a seed, regardless of what Wofford does).

If it's a close game in the fourth and Furman pulls off both games I think you can clearly say that the Paladins have improved over the course of the year, in different yet more concrete ways. I recognize they are a young team and they're obviously getting better as the year progresses, but so is every team. I think optimistic fans like to see the performance of young teams and have mental forecast that their improvement will be linear or exponential, when it's more accurately logarithmic. For instance, Wofford was REALLY young last year, and we're still relatively young this year, but our improvement from last year to this year was more logarithmic than it was linear or exponential.

The next couple weeks will be a good experiment to see where exactly the Paladins are in terms of their maturity. If they still lose the close game, I'd temper the expectations. If they blow out the Citadel, I wouldn't be surprised, but I'd be surprised if they did that to Samford. If they blow out both teams, I'd say no question they are a top 10 team. But in a weird way, I would view a blowout against Citadel and fourth-quarter win against Samford better than if they blew both teams out. If Furman does that, I'd say they are a top five team (but obviously won't and shouldn't get that sort of respect from the committee or AGS).

The reason why is this:

Winning with a young teams is something any team can do, but winning competitive games against quality opponents is hard when 1 or 2 plays don't go your way. Right now, we have 2 of 3 data points that don't look good for Furman in that regard, but because they were early in the year and Furman is so young, I think there's valid reason to dismiss them if Furman gets clutch in the last two games.

Right now, I think Furman has a strong offense that will put them in a good position to win, no matter who they play. They have a defense that's average to good. For the sake of the playoffs and forecasting how the Paladins will do, we need to see how they play against teams that can match them on defense while also putting up points. I think the Citadel and Samford are the best teams to do that since Wofford and Elon (even better than Mercer, who has a great defense, but has had offensive efficiency problems all year). The Citadel has a good defense and as I've explained before their offense potentially could cause problems for the Paladins. Samford may not have the defense to stop Furman consistently, but they've been weird in stopping multiple option teams this year and they have a system that exploits Furman's defensive weaknesses.

A reasoned analysis.

I do not read too much into the record in "close" games this season. Furman's two FCS losses were in weeks 1 and 2. They had an entirely new coaching staff and played a bunch of freshmen. Some of the things you may take for granted, like getting the play in and knowing which of your players can do what are still a work in progress. In that regard, Furman is a good bit different now than they were then.

I think the Mercer game was a good one for the Paladins. It proved to me (and others, I presume) that the Paladins can win a gritty four quarter game against a good opponent. I am glad to have that question answered before heading into the home stretch.

Long story short, Furman has two tough opponents left to play. They do different things well. We'll have to be ready.

[FUGameBreaker]

https://twitter.com/HEROSportsFCS/status/926567571360382976

[youwouldno]

There's zero evidence that Furman is vulnerable late in games. A sample size of 3 is beyond meaningless, there is no rational basis for paying attention only to the 3 closest games, and I'm not aware of any evidence connecting team age with inferior late-game performance.

Speculation without factual substantiation is fine and all, but I'd rather have the Paladins wipe out Citadel and Samford than eek out wins late.

[Reign of Terrier]

There's zero evidence that Furman is vulnerable late in games. A sample size of 3 is beyond meaningless, there is no rational basis for paying attention only to the 3 closest games, and I'm not aware of any evidence connecting team age with inferior late-game performance.

Speculation without factual substantiation is fine and all, but I'd rather have the Paladins wipe out Citadel and Samford than eek out wins late.

3 close late games and 2 losses isn't zero evidence. It may not be significant evidence, as there is reason to doubt it (as I've pointed out), but the only way we'll know is the next time they play a close one. You can argue that the evidence is inconclusive (which I basically did), but a sample size of 3 is pretty good for a college football team. 3 games is 25% of the season.

There is plenty of rational basis to pay attention to close games because that's when the pressure's on. Look at all of the teams/coaches who are defined by their inability to win the big/close ones (Harbaugh at Michigan, Huesman for most of his time at Chattanooga, Elon when they were good and in the Socon, etc). Furman has pulverized teams that they were clearly better than (ETSU, VMI, Colgate, Chattanooga) and there's reason to think they can put it on for 60 minutes against quality opponents (Western, Mercer), but against the two best teams on their schedule they haven't put it together. It may be because of youth, being early in the season, but it's possibly a systemic flaw.

As for young teams being inconsistent, that's pretty much a given and there's lots of evidence for it at all levels

It's not really "without factually substantiation." Furman has beat only one team with a winning record, and arguably they weren't full speed without Adams. They are last in pass defense and #6 in total defense in the conference. Arguably, the most complete teams they've played (Wofford, Elon) they lost to, while they've exploited teams with weak defenses (Western, Colgate, VMI, ETSU) and outscored the teams with so-so offenses (Mercer--though they are improving and Chattanooga). I'm waiting to see Furman play a team with a quality defense and an offense that can match them blow for blow and come out on top.

I'm not saying they can't do it, just that it's something to watch in the next three weeks. It's a hypothesis worth testing, in other words. Blowing out both Samford and the Citadel would be great, but we'd learn a lot more about Furman if at least the Samford game was close.

[gofurman]

3 close late games and 2 losses isn't zero evidence. It may not be significant evidence, as there is reason to doubt it (as I've pointed out), but the only way we'll know is the next time they play a close one. You can argue that the evidence is inconclusive (which I basically did), but a sample size of 3 is pretty good for a college football team. 3 games is 25% of the season.

There is plenty of rational basis to pay attention to close games because that's when the pressure's on. Look at all of the teams/coaches who are defined by their inability to win the big/close ones (Harbaugh at Michigan, Huesman for most of his time at Chattanooga, Elon when they were good and in the Socon, etc). Furman has pulverized teams that they were clearly better than (ETSU, VMI, Colgate, Chattanooga) and there's reason to think they can put it on for 60 minutes against quality opponents (Western, Mercer), but against the two best teams on their schedule they haven't put it together. It may be because of youth, being early in the season, but it's possibly a systemic flaw.

As for young teams being inconsistent, that's pretty much a given and there's lots of evidence for it at all levels

It's not really "without factually substantiation." Furman has beat only one team with a winning record, and arguably they weren't full speed without Adams. They are last in pass defense and #6 in total defense in the conference. Arguably, the most complete teams they've played (Wofford, Elon) they lost to, while they've exploited teams with weak defenses (Western, Colgate, VMI, ETSU) and outscored the teams with so-so offenses (Mercer--though they are improving and Chattanooga). I'm waiting to see Furman play a team with a quality defense and an offense that can match them blow for blow and come out on top.

I'm not saying they can't do it, just that it's something to watch in the next three weeks. It's a hypothesis worth testing, in other words. Blowing out both Samford and the Citadel would be great, but we'd learn a lot more about Furman if at least the Samford game was close.

I am just glad to be in the conversation. I'll say again... Last yr FU was 3-8 w over 20 seniors playing. This year we have about 5 seniors and a totally new system on O and D. We have 6 wins. one guy on terrier fans.com said after we played Wofford we were same ol team of close losses and would top out at 4 wins. I might have to look that guy up.

YoungTerrier is a great fan. Objective and more reasonable than many. I fully agree w him I don't taunt a team until we have played. Citadel could EASILY beat Furman. Citadels record does not reflect how phenomenal their run D is. I have watched some Citadel film. I watched Cit v Woff. Wofford was fortunate to win - no offense. If Cit doesn't fumble on one yard line going in to score Citadel prolly wins. Wofford had - get this - EIGHTY rushing yards total. I bet Ayers was about to choke someone. I bet Woff gets more rushing production v USC than they did vs Citadel.

Though Do realize when you say we beat teams that don't have a winning record that in part... That's because we beat them! Mercer and Western are strong wins. I am convinced of that.

But point is, even if FU finishes by losing last two the SoCon should be on notice. Even if FU finishes 6-5, 5-3 Socon (worst possible) I think the SoCon will know FU is back and coming on strong for next years. I saw the Cit note above about playoffs and now regression. The difference is Furman will hopefully have same coaches nxt yr

EDIT - Furman has beaten TWO teams w winning records. And killed them. Colgate AND Western Carolina

in SoCon all we can play is who is scheduled:
Wofford 5-1. .... FU lost by 1
Furman 5-1. ...... Can't play ourselves
WCU 4-2. ........ FU won 28-6
Samm. 3–2. ..... not played yet
Citadel. 3-3. ......... Not played yet
Mercer. 3-3. .... FU won 28-21
Chatt. 2-4. .... FU won by 25+
ETSU. 1-4. ... FU won 56-35 i think
VMI. 0-6. ... FU won 42-10

[Reign of Terrier]

At this point in the season, I don't think it really matters how many freshmen the dins have.

Furman was 3-8 last year but a razor's edge away from being 8-3

[gofurman]

At this point in the season, I don't think it really matters how many freshmen the dins have.

Furman was 3-8 last year but a razor's edge away from being 8-3

Agree some. Certainly matters less now than first of year. Which explains Woff and Elon losses a little. But still matters. think of a 21 yr old OL vs an 18 yr old OL - experience v blitz, size , weight lift strength. We run left more than right .. Why , our two Senior OL are there. Less likely for mistakes. Stronger

I mean if it didn't matter two deep charts would be full of freshman for everyone. They aren't. Most teams start mostly seniors and juniors. A few Sophs and a freak freshman or three

it still matters some. Those same Fr will be better next year. But yes, matters less now

[FUBeAR]

FUBeAR has had a tough week..

* No picks this week, except that FU will not lose. Just assume the rest of the picks/scores are all hilariously wrong...until they aren’t.

* Actually, OK, since I previously committed to it, I will pick Chatt over Woffy 21-19.

* No power rankings this week. 8 Teams, if selected, would have been ranked 1.0-1.7 (with possible ties) and VMI at #9.

Hoping for a better Week 11, IRL.

[gofurman]

FUBeAR has had a tough week..

* No picks this week, except that FU will not lose. Just assume the rest of the picks/scores are all hilariously wrong...until they aren’t.

* Actually, OK, since I previously committed to it, I will pick Chatt over Woffy 21-19.

* No power rankings this week. 8 Teams, if selected, would have been ranked 1.0-1.7 (with possible ties) and VMI at #9.

Hoping for a better Week 11, IRL.


FUBEAR Hope Your weeks get better soon. Need your scouting report on Citadel soon !!! (Over on UFFP please. )

again, I KNOW you were an FU player And coach! And have ties to Mercer. So go Mercer tomorrow

[ElCid]

Chatty hanging touch with Woffy down 7-3 half way through 2nd.

WCU scores on opening drive at The Citadel, up 7-0. Dogs drive deep only to fumble. OMG.

[Mocs123]

7-6 Wofford.

[ElCid]

Dogs tie it up after some good defense work and shanked punt. 7-7 early 2nd.

[FCSFBFAN]

7-6 Wofford.

Wofford's TD was on a 21 yard drive after a Chat fumble. 66 total yards in the first half.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford looks like they'll be up 7-6 at half.

Our coaches are probably the difference this year and that we're finding ways to lose. We make no adjustments (where's Joe Newman? we've had the ball 5 times and only have 60 yards of offense; Chatt's good but they aren't that good)

Meanwhile on defense, we're playing solid (Chatt only has 117 yards at the half), but our scheme is basically ****ing this up.

Chattanooga's offense is pretty straight forward, they don't trust their OL to protect Copeland long enough, so they're running quick routes and draw plays. It's pretty predictable, but our coaches aren't really doing anything to stop it.

- - - Updated - - -

The difference between Wofford being an average or good team on offense and a great team is our offensive coordinator's boneheaded inability to make decisions and adjustments.

If we lose this game he should resign.

[ElCid]

Cats and Dogs tied up at 10 with 2:28 in 2nd. Missed TD opportunity with penalty by Dogs at 1.