Best States for HS Football Talent?

[WMTribe90]

The top three in no particular order would have to Texas, Florida and California. Though, I'd probably give FL and TX a slight advantage given CA's total population advantage. After those three it gets a little tougher.

My second tier of states would include, again in no real order...

LA, GA, OH, VA, PA, Miss

Honorable Mentions

NJ, Carolinas, AL

This will surely spark some debate and I'm sure I'm missing some states.

Now, every state has their powerhouse programs. I tried picking states, where HS football is followed and played at a consistently high level across the state and just not in the major metro areas. For example, Denver has some pretty good HS football, but the rest of the state lags pretty far behind. The number of players going on to play DI college ball and the NFL are certainly factors, but not the only ones. Some great HS players just aren't made for the college game and some great college players just aren't made for the NFL. I tried to consider the overall population of a state and not penalize any states with small populations. Regardless I don't believe RI is a hotbed of HS football :D

[kats89]

From big 5A programs to six-man programs, high school football is king in Texas. Texas has two football champions for each classification down to 2A ball . It it based on the amount of enrollment of the school that determines if you are in the Divsion I bracket or the Division II bracket. There is a wealth of talent in this state. Sam Houston's roster is nothing but kids from Texas, which you will probably find true for most I-AA and DII programs. But, high school football is very good here. The movie "Friday Night Lights" is a true story and pretty typical across the state.

[ChickenMan]

My top five would be...

1... CA
2... FL
3... TX
4... GA
5... LA

[Sly Fox]

Friday Night Lights was based in reality, but they messed with some of the facts of Buzz's book. But I digress.

The top three are obvious, so you have to decide if you are talking quantity or quality from that point on.

[eaglefan452]

Texas, California, and Florida are the top states. You can make an argument for any of the three to the the top state. After those three probably Georgia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Louisiana would follow behind. South Carolina has had some good talent coming out lately as well.

[Josh]

The Swami's Top 5:
1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. Ohio
5. Georgia

[TXST_CAT]

By far I have to say TX. I have been to FL and CA and never saw the energy or excitment in those states that is present in Texas High School football. The atmosphere of Texas High School football is equivalent to most Div I-AA teams. Some high schools have such a strong following they can have 5k-15k fans in attendance. I say this allows players to have an easier transition into the college ranks. The tallent may be similar but the product is different.

[Go...gate]

NJ deserves some more credit; lots of public high schools on many levels and some of the best parochial/private/prep school football anywhere.

[DemiGS]

Florida, Hands down. If we are talking about the number of quality athletes per capita. The fan base per school might be better in Tx, but you can be a fan of an awful team.

[TXST_CAT]

Florida, Hands down. If we are talking about the number of quality athletes per capita. The fan base per school might be better in Tx, but you can be a fan of an awful team.
Yea but the level of competition increases as well. As for private schools they don't compare.

[TXST_CAT]

Here is some info on Texas High School Football/ stadiums.
Nice video also.
http://www.texasbob.com/fb_hs.html

[DaGriz]

I would go with California. There has been some amazing talent out of De La Salle and Poly. There are a lot of players to come out of Sacramento, San Fran. area, L.A., and San Diego. I would say California produces some of the biggest name QB's. Maybe not as many lineman. A fair share of RB's and WR's.

[ngineer]

On a per capita basis I'd give Florida slight edge over Texas with CA in third. Just looking at the rosters nationwide of D-I schools I'm amazed at the number from Florida. Following these three, I'd rank my home state just ahead of Ohio and Georgia in terms of breadth of quality and quantity. Any region of Pennsylvania will yield a significant number of quality recruits, especially with the trenchmen, linebackers and quarterbacks.

[AgentOrange]

Florida, Hands down. If we are talking about the number of quality athletes per capita. The fan base per school might be better in Tx, but you can be a fan of an awful team.

Tell me about it.
(Huntsville High (TX) 2-18 in the last two years. (I think)

[golionsgo]

On a per capita basis I'd give Florida slight edge over Texas with CA in third. Just looking at the rosters nationwide of D-I schools I'm amazed at the number from Florida. Following these three, I'd rank my home state just ahead of Ohio and Georgia in terms of breadth of quality and quantity. Any region of Pennsylvania will yield a significant number of quality recruits, especially with the trenchmen, linebackers and quarterbacks.


On a per capita basis, it is pretty well documented that Mississippi and Louisiana rank at the top based on the sheer numbers of NFL and Division I football players that come from these two states. And even in terms of raw numbers, not taking into account population, Louisiana ranks in the top five, which is amazing considering we have less than five million people.

[Tribe4SF]

Virginia has certainly climbed the ladder over the past twenty years. #1 recruit for next year (Percy Harvin) is from Virginia. Tidewater area has been the real hotbed of talent. Consider that Michael Vick never made first team all-district in high school, playing against Ronald Curry for four years.

[DaGriz]

And even in terms of raw numbers, not taking into account population, Louisiana ranks in the top five, which is amazing considering we have less than five million people.

Montana has less than a million people and was able to produce Ryan Leaf. Does it get any better than that?

[Pen Guin]

Some of NE Ohio's larger stadiums (prep):

Parma Byers Field. Capacity 11,423
Fawcett Stadium (Canton McKinley) Capacity: 23,751
Paul Brown Stadium (Massillon) Capacity: Just Under 18,500
Mollenkoff Stadium (Warren G. Harding ) Capacity: 15,000+
Austintown Fitch Falcon Stadium Capacity: 10,000

Massilon vs. McKinley (Canton) is the most historic prep game in the country. Tickets are impossible to get ... this year will be the 113th meeting of the two schools. There are more state and national titles between those two schools than any 10 schools in the US. It was said that at one point, every team in the Big-10 and NFL had a player on their squad from one of those two schools.

In Youngstown, Cardinal Mooney vs. Ursuline (prep) has sold out Stambaugh Stadium, capacity of over 22k. Last year, Mooney's summer camp was coached by all three Stoops brothers (Bob, Mike, and Mark), their Uncle Bob (almost 20 years at YSU), Mark Mangino (HC Kansas, former YSU Asst. HC), 2 former mooney players (one, Gino Toretta, a heisman winner '92), Bo Pelini (OU DC and 49ers), Mike Zordich (NFL Vet), Petes Reskis (former YSU DC, now Kent State DC), Jerry Olsolvsky (Pitt all-american, Steelers star, now YSU D coach) and several other famous football alumni ... all this for a high school camp. The camp was funded by Denise Bebartolo, owner of the 49ers. The father of the Stoops brothers (ron) was a coach at Mooney for 30 years. During his tenure, Mooney won 15 regional crowns, 6 state game appearances ... winning 4. He actually died of a heart attack on the sidelines doing what he loved best ... coaching his team. This is a school that is serious about football.

I might also point out that the Big-33 is the countries premier prep classic, which takes the top-33 players from PA vs. the top-33 from Ohio. It has a huge TV audience every year.

[arkstfan]

Dave Campbell used to have a breakdown on his web site each year of the number of high school players from each state that signed I-A letters of intent over the past X years. Texas led, followed by California then Florida, but Florida was ahead in recent years just not over the period monitored.

As GoLionsGo pointed out, depending on the year Louisiana or Mississippi seemed to always lead in the number of signees per capita (based on the state population not the per capita number of high school seniors or high school seniors playing football).

Of course recruiting is more than your home state. Last year Idaho sent one high school player to Boise State and one to Idaho.

[DemiGS]

Florida is a college football machine! If we are talking about per capita, let’s not forget that an unusually large percent of Florida folks are old blue haired New Englanders. I mean how many people actually 'settle' in Miss or LA. But the kids of Florida are kicking ‘A’ and taking names. Check out the earlier thread about 'where your players are from'. Count the various teams that sport kids from the sun shine state. And if that doesn't do it....add up the FLA boys on the rosters of the nations Div I-a teams. I lived in Florida for a while, and then moved to Georgia. Georgia is no football slouch, but when I watched a few HS games in GA it looked like they were running at half speed drills because of my acclamation to the Florida game.

[golionsgo]

Florida is a college football machine! If we are talking about per capita, let’s not forget that an unusually large percent of Florida folks are old blue haired New Englanders. I mean how many people actually 'settle' in Miss or LA. But the kids of Florida are kicking ‘A’ and taking names. Check out the earlier thread about 'where your players are from'. Count the various teams that sport kids from the sun shine state. And if that doesn't do it....add up the FLA boys on the rosters of the nations Div I-a teams. I lived in Florida for a while, and then moved to Georgia. Georgia is no football slouch, but when I watched a few HS games in GA it looked like they were running at half speed drills because of my acclamation to the Florida game.


No one disputes Florida as being one of the top sources of talent for D-I schoools and NFL teams. Based on sheer numbers, it's a no brainer. But per capita, Louisiana far exceeds Florida, particularly when it comes to NFL players, even when you factor in "old blue haired New Englanders."

Florida's estimated population right now is roughly 17 million, Louisiana's is 4.5 million. That's nearly 4 to 1 ratio in favor of Florida (3.77 to 1 to be exact). If you look at NFL rosters in 2004, you'll find that Florida was third with 174 players on NFL rosters, while Louisiana was fifth with 84. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do the math.


2004 NFL Roster by State

State Total
CALIFORNIA 200
TEXAS 174
FLORIDA 173
GEORGIA 86
LOUISIANA 84
OHIO 73
PENNSYLVANIA 60
SOUTH CAROLINA 53
VIRGINIA 51
MISSISSIPPI 48
ILLINOIS 45
MICHIGAN 45
NEW JERSEY 44
ALABAMA 42
WASHINGTON 41
NORTH CAROLINA 40
NEW YORK 34
TENNESSEE 33
MARYLAND 28
IOWA 25
ARIZONA 24
MISSOURI 21
OKLAHOMA 21
ARKANSAS 18
MASSACHUSETTS 18
COLORADO 17
INDIANA 16
WISCONSIN 16
MINNESOTA 14
NEBRASKA 14
KANSAS 13
OREGON 13
UTAH 12
HAWAII 11
WASHINGTON, DC 10
KENTUCKY 9
IDAHO 8
CONNECTICUT 5
WEST VIRGINIA 5
DELAWARE 4
NEVADA 4
MONTANA 3
NEW MEXICO 3
WYOMING 3
ALASKA 2
NORTH DAKOTA 2
SOUTH DAKOTA 2
NEW HAMPSHIRE 1
RHODE ISLAND 1

[lucchesicourt]

I have a question, about the numbers of players who sign letters of intent. For instance, CA has a larger population, and is the ratio based on the state population or the population of male high school seniors. If it is based on the state population the data really means nothing. it should be based on the total number of high school seniors of the male variety, right? So it should be :

[those who sign a letter of intent/ X 100= % who sign letter of intent
total high school senior male population

[BBB]

I've seen teams DOMINATE with just Florida talent....

[GoGuins]

Montana has less than a million people and was able to produce Ryan Leaf. Does it get any better than that?

Wasn't he from Great Falls? CMR or GF High? Did he and Dave Dickinson ever play against each other? I arrived in GF right after one graduated I think (1994)

[maacfb]

I agree with Colgate, Id put NJ above VA, there is a reason UVA and others rape an pillage NJ for talent year after year. my top 5 are

Florida
Texas
California
Georgia
Ohio/PA (this ones a tie to me)


as to the guy talking about HS football in Ohio. Last year I went to the Southlake Carroll (#1 HS team in USA today) vs Denton Ryan (were nationally ranked at the time) game. It was on espn 2 with about 20K there and people were paying over $100 in the parking lot for tickets to get in. I couldnt believe it. apparently there is a waiting list for season tickets to Southlake HS football. ive never seen anything like it. not to mention there have been State Playoff games in the past that have packed the Astrodome in Houston

[McNeese75]

I agree with Colgate, Id put NJ above VA, there is a reason UVA and others rape an pillage NJ for talent year after year. my top 5 are

Florida
Texas
California
Georgia
Ohio/PA (this ones a tie to me)


as to the guy talking about HS football in Ohio. Last year I went to the Southlake Carroll (#1 HS team in USA today) vs Denton Ryan (were nationally ranked at the time) game. It was on espn 2 with about 20K there and people were paying over $100 in the parking lot for tickets to get in. I couldnt believe it. apparently there is a waiting list for season tickets to Southlake HS football. ive never seen anything like it. not to mention there have been State Playoff games in the past that have packed the Astrodome in Houston

Nobody can hold a candle to Texas High School Football!! My old High School team was 9-0 four years ago going into their final 4-A game of the year and were ranked 35th in the state :eek:

[JohnStOnge]

Florida, Hands down. If we are talking about the number of quality athletes per capita. The fan base per school might be better in Tx, but you can be a fan of an awful team.

Not true. I'll be back with some numbers but the top two states per capita are Mississippi and Louisiana. You'll find that to be the case whether you talk about NFL players or I-A players. I think NFL is a better indication because the number of I-A players can be inflated by having a lot of minor I-A programs in the state. But either way you look at it Mississippi and Louisiana are going to come out having the highest per capita numbers.

[JohnStOnge]

Well, I'll have to wait on I-A signees. Texas High School Football produces a report on that every year but the site is unavailable right now. I'll tell you that Texas consistently produces the largest number of I-A signees. Of course, Texas also has at least nine I-A football programs so that's a factor.

As far as NFL production goes, I linked the most recent readily available breakdown on that on another thread. Here it is again:

http://rivals100.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=259347 (http://)

As you can see, the top 5 states as of January 21, 2004 were, in order, California (194), Florida (187), Texas (181), Georgia (94), and Louisiana (74). And Florida, rather than being #1 per capita, was #5 at 11.19 NFL players per million population behind Mississippi (17.06), Louisiana (16.51), South Carolina (12.66), and Hawaii (12.05).

Texas is #8 in per capita production at 8.31 and California is not listed among the top 14 states in that area. In other words, its place among the elite in overall production is due to the fact that it is just flat out such a populous state.

I have been seeing breakdowns like that since the late 1980s and they stay pretty constant with some minor shuffling. I've seen changes in who's on top, as I can remember seeing Texas there. I have never seen a per capita breakdown without Mississippi and Louisiana at #1 and #2.

What I've seen in such breakdowns over the years is contrary to an impression I've often heard expressed. I have never seen Florida listed as number 1 in either total or per capita production of either NFL or Division I-A players. It's always up there near the top, but I've never seen it listed at the pinnacle.

[GoGuins]

The Texas and Ohio state champs from '04 will meet 9/9 in Columbus, OH. The night before the big Texas-Ohio St game.

Colerain vs Tyler Lee (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050518/SPT0301/505180355)

[JohnStOnge]

The only problem with the Texas/Ohio State champ thing is that it looks like it's going to be the champs from the previous season so it won't be the same teams.

2000 was a rare year in which eventual Louisiana AAAAA champion West Monroe played both on the road at eventual Mississippi AAAAA champ Moss Point and at home against eventual Texas Division I AAAAA champ Midland Lee (featuring Cedric Benson at running back). West Monroe beat Moss Point 28-23 and routed Midland Lee 36-8. So that year the highest classification champ from Louisiana beat highest classification champs from both Mississippi and Texas.

On the other hand, the 2004 Louisiana AAAAA champ...Evangel...had a horrible year playing out of state teams. Then again Evangel is always on the road when they do that. They put in a lot of miles during the regular season and never get to play top teams from other states at home.

Finally, John Curtiss High School of Metarie, Louisiana, has played a number of games against Florida schools both home and away and I can't recall it ever losing. Unfortunately, I have no idea of how good the schools it's played have been in the context of Florida football and can't find anything on the internet.

[JohnStOnge]

I've seen teams DOMINATE with just Florida talent....

I don't know if you're talking about the Florida "Big Three" of Florida, Florida State, and Miami but what you'll actually find with them is that they do an excellent job of using a foundation of Florida players complemented with great out of state recruiting. Their rosters will normally be 60 to 70 percent Floridian.

I remember when McNeese played Miami in 2000 I looked at the starting roster and 8 of Miami's 11 offensive starters were from states other than Florida. Specific players I can remember are the QB being from California, the tight end Shockey being from Oklahoma, and the wideout Reggie Wayne being from Louisiana. That was an unusual year, I think, as barely over 50 percent of the overall Miami roster was Floridian.

In contrast, Texas and Texas A&M, and Texas Tech will normally be around 90 percent Texan. They probably need to branch out a little more nationally.

[Ronbo]

I kind of like our situation in Montana. Of course we would rank near the bottom of D-IA recruits per year but........ we get lot's of good recruits here because of three main reasons.

1. Our only in state rival for the best players is MSU and we win that battle every year.

2. Some D-IA quality athletes that might get offered in Lousiana, Ohio, or Texas are under the radar here, Lex Hilliard is a perfect example.

3. Some DI-A quality kids grow up Griz fans and they want to be a Grizzly as long as they can remember. We have a very good chance to land these kids.

These factors help us land kids every year that could have played at least Mid-Major I-A.

[JohnStOnge]

Florida is a college football machine! If we are talking about per capita, let’s not forget that an unusually large percent of Florida folks are old blue haired New Englanders. I mean how many people actually 'settle' in Miss or LA.

The 2003 census estimates had Florida at 1,037.323 people ages 15-19. Louisiana was at 317,770 and Mississippi at 195,460 in that age range.

So if you use those rivals numbers to kind of get an idea that'd put Florida at about 18.0, Louisiana at about 23.3, and Mississippi at about 25.1 NFL players per 100,000 residents 15-19.

My guess is it's more racial demographics than age demographics. As of 2003, Mississippi was 36.6% Black, Louisiana was 32.1% Black, and Florida was 15.2 percent Black.

[JohnStOnge]

I agree with the comments on Montana. I was thinking about that after being surprised to see such a large percentage of the Griz roster being native Montanans on another thread.

Then I started thinking the Griz are in a good situation. They are the "flagship" school of their state. And there just aren't as many schools around. In Louisiana, the top recruits are going to go to LSU or to an out of State BCS league school that beats LSU out. After that it's going to be either Tulane or Louisiana Tech. Then even ULM and ULL have an advantage because they can appeal to a I-AA caliber recruit's ego and wish to call himself a "I-A" player. Off the top of my head I can think of at least 7 I-A schools and 7 I-AA schools within about 180 miles of Lake Charles. There's a lot of talent in the East Texas/Louisiana area but there's a lot of competition for it.

[WMTribe90]

I agree with Colgate, Id put NJ above VA, there is a reason UVA and others rape an pillage NJ for talent year after year. my top 5 are

Florida
Texas
California
Georgia
Ohio/PA (this ones a tie to me)

The reason IA programs scour NJ for recruits is the lack of a viable IA program in state. Rutgers is making strides, but the state's top talent still looks elsewhere to play. Ten or 15 years ago I would have given NJ the nod over VA, but VA has improved significantly in the last 15 to 20 years.

Ohio and PA are virtually even if you consider neither state has domintated the annual Big 33 game.

I don't like leaning to heavily on the number of NFL players to argue which state has the best HS football talent. Genetics will decide who makes the NFL long before what HS one attended. I also think the quality of college program, from the strength and conditioning program to the quality of the coaching staff far outweigh the player's HS experience in determining NFL success.

[JohnStOnge]

I don't like leaning to heavily on the number of NFL players to argue which state has the best HS football talent. Genetics will decide who makes the NFL long before what HS one attended. I also think the quality of college program, from the strength and conditioning program to the quality of the coaching staff far outweigh the player's HS experience in determining NFL success.

I agree with everything from the second sentence on but I don't see that as supporting the first sentence. Genetics also has an awful lot to do with the level of high school talent. I think college conditioning, etc., outweigh's a player's high school experience but it does not outweigh genetics.

I do think the popularity of the sport in a state is a factor. I think it's reasonable to assume that greater popularity and community support can result in a higher percentage of those with the genetic potential to excell becoming involved in the sport. High school football is very popular in most of the states near the top of the list.

Problem with using college player production is there's SO much variation. Counting I-A players on Buffalo's or ULM's roster is counting something very different than counting I-A players on Miami's or USC's roster. And even if you limit it to just BCS league programs you've got differences like those between USC and Rutgers or Miami and Baylor.

Kind of moot, though, because from what I've seen the I-A player production rankings look pretty much like the NFL rankings. You're still going to see the top 5 being CA, TX, FL, GA and LA and the top two per capita being MS and LA. At least that's the way it's always been when I've seen them. Biggest difference is Texas has always been #1 in the I-A thing when I've seen a list (I haven't seen it different per another post on this thread).

[WMTribe90]

I do think the popularity of the sport in a state is a factor. I think it's reasonable to assume that greater popularity and community support can result in a higher percentage of those with the genetic potential to excell becoming involved in the sport. High school football is very popular in most of the states near the top of the list.

Definetely some truth in that statement. Maryland is sandwiched between three great football states, but as a state greater emphasis is placed on lacrosse and soccer. Alot of their better athletes participate in these sports.

[kats89]

Montana has less than a million people and was able to produce Ryan Leaf. Does it get any better than that?

Ryan Leaf? xlolx What a flop. They had a show on ESPN rating the biggest NFL draft busts and guess who was #1? Leaf! What a wasted talent.

[kats89]

Here is some info on Texas High School Football/ stadiums.
Nice video also.
http://www.texasbob.com/fb_hs.html

There are definitely some nice high school facilities in Texas. Some of them would make some colleges jealous.

[CrunchGriz]

Ryan Leaf? xlolx What a flop. They had a show on ESPN rating the biggest NFL draft busts and guess who was #1? Leaf! What a wasted talent.

kats89: If I had to guess, I'd bet that DaGriz was being sarcastic with his reference to Ryan Leaf. Most Montana folks think he's an even bigger joke than those who only know him as a football flop. (Think class, or lack thereof.)

[kats89]

kats89: If I had to guess, I'd bet that DaGriz was being sarcastic with his reference to Ryan Leaf. Most Montana folks think he's an even bigger joke than those who only know him as a football flop. (Think class, or lack thereof.)

Oh I know. I was just having some fun!!

[BBB]

I don't know if you're talking about the Florida "Big Three" of Florida, Florida State, and Miami but what you'll actually find with them is that they do an excellent job of using a foundation of Florida players complemented with great out of state recruiting. Their rosters will normally be 60 to 70 percent Floridian.

I remember when McNeese played Miami in 2000 I looked at the starting roster and 8 of Miami's 11 offensive starters were from states other than Florida. Specific players I can remember are the QB being from California, the tight end Shockey being from Oklahoma, and the wideout Reggie Wayne being from Louisiana. That was an unusual year, I think, as barely over 50 percent of the overall Miami roster was Floridian.

In contrast, Texas and Texas A&M, and Texas Tech will normally be around 90 percent Texan. They probably need to branch out a little more nationally.


Yeah I am. Alot of those kids are Flordia players. I know they recruit nationally but their core base IS Florida. Part of the reason why the Big East and ACC went after Miami and FSU. Both school open up that rich talent area.

[eaglefan452]

You can look at the big name Florida schools and see that there is a huge talent pool in Florida, but there are colleges from all over the nation that do recruiting in Florida. I am sure that schools also venture into Texas and California as well, but being that I am closer to Florida in location than those other two states, so I mostly see the talent coming out of the state of Florida.

[JohnStOnge]

No doubt Florida produces a lot of talent and can generally be considered as good as it gets. My only quibble is that you see and hear so much on TV about Florida being "the" best state when the numbers say there's players from California and Texas all over the place too. Another thing I think is that there's nothing special about Florida per se in the context of the Southeast coast except it's got the biggest population in that area. The whole Southeast coastal zone from South Carolina around through Louisiana is loaded with talent and Florida happens to be the most populous state in that zone.

[JohnStOnge]

Maybe somebody knows where to find this but I believe that when Miami had that record year for players being drafted by the NFL the majority of its draft picks were players who played high school in states other than Florida.

I think Ed Reed (or is it Reid) was in that draft and he's from Louisiana. There was Shockey of course from Oklahoma. I also remember an offensive lineman from New Jersey...I think he might've been the first Miami player taken.

The only point I'm trying to make is that the Florida "Big Three" would not be as successful as they've been if they relied exclusively or almost exclusively on players from Florida. They could be very good but not as good as they've been. To put it in what I think is proper perspective about 1 in every 3 of their players have been from other states when I've looked at it. And when they get players from other states they're getting some of those states' real blue chippers. Like that tight end Winslow who was at Miami from Washington.

[soweagle]

I pulled up Miami's roster and saw about 60 players form florida.

[SoCon48]

Texas stocks half the teams in the country with at least one player it seems.

[JohnStOnge]

I pulled up Miami's roster and saw about 60 players form florida.

I got a slightly different count but close (might've made a mistake but I know I'm close enough to show something). I counted 96 players on Miami's roster with 65 coming from Florida. That's 67% and consistent with the "1 in 3" from other states I mentioned. And it's very national. Take a look at the count I got for out of state players by state:

TX 7
LA, NJ, and PA 4 each
CA 2
CO, DE, GA, IA, MD, NC, OK, SC, TN, and WI 1 each

In contrast, I counted 91 Texans and 107 total players on the Texas roster (85 percent Texan). So only about one in 7 players is from out of State. Their out of state breakdown, as I counted it, is:

CA and CO 4 each
AZ and OR 2 each
GA, NEV, TN and (of all places) Greece 1 each.

The Greece thing is interesting but you can see that, overall, Miami has more of a "national" flavor than Texas does. That's how it's always been when I looked at it in the past too. And I'd say that's a plus for Miami. That school's been better at exploiting its rich local talent base and also cherry picking blue chippers from all over the country to supplement it.

[SoCon48]

"A plus..looking at the past, too"
Took it a long time to start working. Texas is ranked 8th all-time vs Miami's 14th and the two teams have split 2-2 in encounters vs each other.

[GtFllsGriz]

GoGuin, both Leaf and Dickenson played for CMR. Dickenson: Class Leaf: Classless No comparison.

[laparka316]

Posters in the topic who are talking about stadiums and rivalry's are so off base. I've seen some big rivalry games that were fun to watch, where there was very little talent on the field. Simply put, we're talking about the players themselves, not the schools or the fans or the historical rammifications of a certain game. There are high school players in California that end up being major I-A stars who play in front of 200 people, in stadiums that seat 500. Why? because no one cares about high school sports in most parts of California, and that includes the students. If the question is, which state cares the most about High School football, than Texas wins... hands down, and California would come close to last. but, since we are talking about the individual athletes, the two states compare closely, and rival the big dog in College Football... Florida

[TheGateway]

Ohio Hands down!!!!!!!!

[blueballs]

Ohio Hands down!!!!!!!!

Huh????????????????????

[SoCon48]

Ohio is a "wuz."

[TXST_CAT]

Posters in the topic who are talking about stadiums and rivalry's are so off base. I've seen some big rivalry games that were fun to watch, where there was very little talent on the field. Simply put, we're talking about the players themselves, not the schools or the fans or the historical rammifications of a certain game. There are high school players in California that end up being major I-A stars who play in front of 200 people, in stadiums that seat 500. Why? because no one cares about high school sports in most parts of California, and that includes the students. If the question is, which state cares the most about High School football, than Texas wins... hands down, and California would come close to last. but, since we are talking about the individual athletes, the two states compare closely, and rival the big dog in College Football... Florida

I must disagree for the same reasons you just mentioned. I have often heard as I just did yesterday (Big XII media day) that coaches look forward to players that can adjust to the college atmosphere/speed. The coach not being from TX mentioned the players coming in from Texas are accustomed to the level of preparedness that will be expected from them in college as they saw it on a regular basis in Texas High School Football. When a player comes out of high school playing 8-10 games a season with fans reaching about 5k, 15, or in some cases even 20k they learned to deal with the pressure that comes with playing big games. As far as talent goes every state can argue talent but the big difference is this:
1-the coaching
2-the number of "big games" usually associated with large crowds
3-mental/ physical discipline
Where in Fl and CA most teenage males are concerned with laying at the beach/surfing, or as you mentioned don’t care about high school sports most Texas boys are learning defensive/offense assignments hoping it's there ticket to a higher education.

[TXST_CAT]

As for the number crunchers if you really want to get an idea as to which state is recruited most than I would think the obvious answer would be to look at the number of Universities that recruit the top three CA, TX, and FL. Not just major programs. If a state like CA has players at ten universities outside of CA it is safe to assume those ten universities recruited in California. By this measure you’re looking at how many universities went after players in each state rather than how many players left. One university could pick up three players from Texas but that doesn’t account for the six universities that picked up one player each. I hope this makes sense. If not well it’s because it’s 4am and I just finished studying. Good night!

[blueballs]

Where in Fl ... most teenage males are concerned with laying at the beach/surfing, or as you mentioned don’t care about high school sports most Texas boys are learning defensive/offense assignments hoping it's there ticket to a higher education.

You obviously don't know a thing about HS football in FL to make that blatently ignorant and untrue statement.

Go back and look at the Division 1-A rankings for about the last say, 20 years or so. You will find one or more of the big 3 from FL in the top 5 in the final rankings just about every year except last year. These schools do it with primarily FL kids, and these kids don't get to that level surfing or laying on the beach.

[Baldy]

You obviously don't know a thing about HS football in FL to make that blatently ignorant and untrue statement.

Go back and look at the Division 1-A rankings for about the last say, 20 years or so. You will find one or more of the big 3 from FL in the top 5 in the final rankings just about every year except last year. These schools do it with primarily FL kids, and these kids don't get to that level surfing or laying on the beach.

True, as you very well know, baseball is the same way. I doubt you'll find any state other than Florida that has year round baseball/softball leagues.
That definately wasn't a very well thought out statement.

[Fordham]

after the big 3 I'll vote for PA for purely selfish reasons.

Interestingly, the big 33 game of PA v. OH is coming up (I don't think it's been played yet, has it?) and the PA-OH record is 6 - 6.

Side note, there is still one undecided kid per school on each squad. It's also pretty impressive how many Oh. St., Michigan and other D-IA (nod to Ralph) schools are on the Ohio roster, versus the PA one which has a bigger range across other divisions/subclassifications (another nod to Ralph).

[MU Alum]

I know how big that H.S. game is. FORDHAM could you post the rosters and where the kids are going to college at, I think that would be pretty interesting or do you know a link?

[blueballs]

True, as you very well know, baseball is the same way. I doubt you'll find any state other than Florida that has year round baseball/softball leagues.
That definately wasn't a very well thought out statement.

They play year around in Arizona, SoCal and Texas too and the teams you typically see in the national tournaments from those states are generally very good.

[Fordham]

I know how big that H.S. game is. FORDHAM could you post the rosters and where the kids are going to college at, I think that would be pretty interesting or do you know a link?


Sure - here's Ohio: O-H-I-O (http://www.big33.org/Docs/rptOHRoster.rtf)

and here's the team from the promised land: PA (http://www.big33.org/Docs/rptPARoster.rtf)


big 33 home page (http://www.big33.org/index.ashx)

[RadMann]

I did not figure this out, but I was checking out one of the MAC boards and there was a similar discussion on there. A poster there determined the number of NFL players originally from each state per million population. Since the NFL is the ultimate level of football, this shows to a degree where most of the best football players come from:

Below is his list:

LOUISIANA - 18.8
WASHINGTON, DC - 17.5
MISSISSIPPI - 16.9
SOUTH CAROLINA - 13.2
FLORIDA - 10.8
GEORGIA - 10.5
ALABAMA - 9.4
HAWAII - 9.1
IOWA - 8.5
TEXAS - 8.3
NEBRASKA - 8.2
VIRGINIA - 7.2
WASHINGTON - 7.0
ARKANSAS - 6.7
OHIO - 6.4
IDAHO - 6.2
OKLAHOMA - 6.1
WYOMING - 6.1
CALIFORNIA - 5.9
TENNESSEE - 5.8
UTAH - 5.4
MARYLAND - 5.3
NEW JERSEY - 5.2
DELAWARE - 5.1
NORTH CAROLINA - 5.0
PENNSYLVANIA - 4.9
KANSAS - 4.8
ARIZONA - 4.7
MICHIGAN - 4.5
COLORADO - 4.0
OREGON - 3.8
MISSOURI - 3.8
ILLINOIS - 3.6
MONTANA - 3.3
ALASKA - 3.2
NORTH DAKOTA - 3.1
WISCONSIN - 3.0
MINNESOTA - 2.8
MASSACHUSETTS - 2.8
WEST VIRGINIA - 2.8
SOUTH DAKOTA - 2.6
INDIANA - 2.6
KENTUCKY - 2.2
NEVADA - 2.0
NEW YORK - 1.8
NEW MEXICO - 1.6
CONNECTICUT - 1.5
RHODE ISLAND - 1.0
NEW HAMPSHIRE - 0.8

[TheGateway]

Huh????????????????????


Ohio Has the best talent by far.

"Ohio State the next National Champs"

[TheGateway]

Ohio is a "wuz."


Shhhhh!! Dont make a fool of your self!

[TXST_CAT]

You obviously don't know a thing about HS football in FL to make that blatently ignorant and untrue statement.

Go back and look at the Division 1-A rankings for about the last say, 20 years or so. You will find one or more of the big 3 from FL in the top 5 in the final rankings just about every year except last year. These schools do it with primarily FL kids, and these kids don't get to that level surfing or laying on the beach.
For the record I spent almost a year in FL and heard very little about any of the local high school programs. The same can be said when I was in CA for almost 3yrs. I was commenting on my own observation. If you say FL is serious about football then I’ll take your word on it.

[JohnStOnge]

As for the number crunchers if you really want to get an idea as to which state is recruited most than I would think the obvious answer would be to look at the number of Universities that recruit the top three CA, TX, and FL. Not just major programs. If a state like CA has players at ten universities outside of CA it is safe to assume those ten universities recruited in California. By this measure you’re looking at how many universities went after players in each state rather than how many players left. One university could pick up three players from Texas but that doesn’t account for the six universities that picked up one player each. I hope this makes sense. If not well it’s because it’s 4am and I just finished studying. Good night!

I think it makes sense but I still think that, though no indicator is perfect, NFL players is the best one. All kinds of complications come in when you're trying to evaluate it based on I-A signees...mainly having to do with how big the differences are between talent levels at the various schools. There's also a thing where having small I-A schools in the state inflates the number of I-A players from that state. With the NFL the talent level is not nearly as variable plus there's not a whole lot of bias instroduced by a team's roster being dominated by players from the state in which it is physically located. If

[JohnStOnge]

Radman, that listing of per capita production is pretty consistent with history except I've never seen Louisiana jump Mississippi before for the number 1 spot. Washington DC was number 1 in the Rivals 2004 per capita breakdown but that's not a state...it's a city. And if you look at it in terms of just city in the Rivals thing D.C. is not listed among the top 30 among metropolitan areas in terms of per capita production. Florida metropolitan areas do dominate that per capita metropolitan areas production listing.

[JohnStOnge]

I did not figure this out, but I was checking out one of the MAC boards and there was a similar discussion on there. A poster there determined the number of NFL players originally from each state per million population. Since the NFL is the ultimate level of football, this shows to a degree where most of the best football players come from:

Below is his list:

LOUISIANA - 18.8
WASHINGTON, DC - 17.5
MISSISSIPPI - 16.9
SOUTH CAROLINA - 13.2
FLORIDA - 10.8
GEORGIA - 10.5
ALABAMA - 9.4
...

Another listing showing the thing I was talking about in an earlier post. In my earlier post the 6 states in the coastal zone South Carolina around through Louisiana were 6 of the top 7 per capita. In this one they're 6 of the top 6.

[rokamortis]

This is off topic, but I wonder if anyone has seen a listing of number of players per state for each position, this could help show if state helps determine skill, size, speed, ... etc.

EX) We all know that Florida players ar fast, but does that translate to NFL quality DB and RB?

[JohnStOnge]

This is off topic, but I wonder if anyone has seen a listing of number of players per state for each position, this could help show if state helps determine skill, size, speed, ... etc.

EX) We all know that Florida players ar fast, but does that translate to NFL quality DB and RB?

Yes. The Rivals series does that. Here's a link to the article in the series that breaks it down by different position groupings:

http://rivals100.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=259363 (http://)

Again, that's as of January, 2004, but I doubt if the basic picture has changed much. Hopefully Rivals will do this sort of thing periodically.

[rokamortis]

That's great! Thanks.

[MU Alum]

Thanks Fordham, It seems Ohio has a lot more players going to big time Universities this year than PA, curious to see how the game turns out.

[RadMann]

JohnStOnge: I thin they listed DC by itself because it is not included in any other state but I agree with you that it is like comparing apples to oranges comparing it to entire states.

[GoGuins]

Thanks Fordham, It seems Ohio has a lot more players going to big time Universities this year than PA, curious to see how the game turns out.

Ohio won 34-28, it was 34-21 at the half. A lot of fireworks in the 1st quarter. Youngstown/Warren Harding WR Mario Manningham (Michigan) had a nice 74 yd TD on Ohio's second play. Harding is the same HS that produced Maurice Clarett. PA scored on their first play from scrimmage, a screen pass.

According to the broadcasters, there were several key Ohio players missing the game due to the fact that they already reported to their respective universities to get ready for camp.

Only 2 players on the Ohio roster are going to colleges below I-A (Villanova, Mercyhurst (II). 14 players on the PA side

Big 33 site (http://www.big33.org/footballclassic/default.ashx)

[ngineer]

Ohio won 34-28, it was 34-21 at the half. A lot of fireworks in the 1st quarter. Youngstown/Warren Harding WR Mario Manningham (Michigan) had a nice 74 yd TD on Ohio's second play. Harding is the same HS that produced Maurice Clarett. PA scored on their first play from scrimmage, a screen pass.

According to the broadcasters, there were several key Ohio players missing the game due to the fact that they already reported to their respective universities to get ready for camp.

Only 2 players on the Ohio roster are going to colleges below I-A (Villanova, Mercyhurst (II). 14 players on the PA side

Big 33 site (http://www.big33.org/footballclassic/default.ashx)

PA had a number of 'replacements' on their roster due to original selections having to bow out due to reporting early to their I-A schools. One of the replacements was a DB from Easton, who is going to D-II Bloomsburg.

[Pen Guin]

I too have been a little disapointed at the quality of players the last couple years. I think they need to move the game date again. Not too many coaches are going to let their players participate. However, if they have not officially signed, the game will have more impact in the players careers & more top-end players will participate.

[RadMann]

Apparently an NCAA rule change is going to make these summer all-star high school games more difficult to pull off and it looks like it will spell the end for the Big 33 game. See the attached article for details:

Morning Call (http://www.mcall.com/sports/all-big33jul23,0,213590.story?coll=all-sports-hed)

"...... The Big 33 game features mostly Division I-A players who were on all-area and all-league teams. Price, who's headed to Division II Bloomsburg, received no postseason honors and was added to Pennsylvania's roster late because other notable players had to pull out.

Ohio also had defections and had to add players, making tonight's 48th annual classic one of those who's-not-here games.

Get used to it. The NCAA's recent decision to allow universities to pay for incoming freshmen to attend summer school may result in Pennsylvania and Ohio playing for the 18th and final time tonight.

Big 33 officials have already advanced next year's game from July to June 17, hoping that bigger-name college prospects might be able to play......."

[TheGateway]

PA had a number of 'replacements' on their roster due to original selections having to bow out due to reporting early to their I-A schools. One of the replacements was a DB from Easton, who is going to D-II Bloomsburg.

Ohio Had replacements 2.

[Fordham]

Had a buddy that went to it and it sounded like a good game. As much as we pull for PA, though, he had to admit that Ohio was just better. That OSU bound QB is supposed to be a flat out stud.

Regarding the move to mid-June for the game, apparently there is a conflict with the state of Ohio's North-South game, which isn't likely to be moved for anything. Thus, from what I read, the PA-OH game is in serious jeopardy and they may go back to other forms of it that they've had in the past like an East - West PA game or PA v. MD.

[JohnStOnge]

Not sure if anybody's still reading this thread but I finally got the list of the top 5 states producing the most I-A signees this past year. Here are the states and number of kids they produced that got the scholarships:

Texas 340
Florida 308
California 216
Georgia 143
Ohio 138

Florida is much closer to Texas in this than it's been in the past and my guess as to why is that Florida now has two new I-A schools. Since the mid 1990s it's gone from having only 3 I-As to having 7. Georgia is kind of impressive to me because it's only got 2 I-A schools. California has...what...7 I-As? Texas has 10 and Ohio 7.

That's the problem with I-A signees. I think how many I-A schools a state has is a significant factor in how many I-A signees there are. On the other hand, you can't use just out of state signees because that's not necessarily fair either.

The NFL is the thing, I think.