Patriot League Pick 'em - Week 8

[carney2]

Harvard head coach, Tim Murphy’s scathing indictment of Patriot League recruiting and, by extension, quality of play, continues to reverberate around the League. We will, for the moment, side step that land mine and move on to the part of the season where the halt and the lame have at each other for no reason other than to win a very hollow championship and move on to annihilation and embarrassment in the postseason.

We are guaranteed that three Patriot League teams will emerge victorious this week. Or are we (see Game of the Week, below)?

COLGATE @ HOLY CROSS
FORDHAM @ GEORGETOWN
BUCKNELL @ LAFAYETTE

Bye*: LEHIGH

Game of the Week: Bucknell @ Lafayette. With a nod to what coulda/shoulda been in Woo (but is now pretty much a “so what?!”) all eyes should be on Easton to see if Lafayette can get its League mojo working again to unbelievably remain undefeated in the League and in first place. Perhaps the big question is whether these two defenses, going against invisible offenses, can produce the first - and theoretically impossible - 0-0 tie since the NCAA implemented its overtime rules for D-1 in 1996. The last 0-0 tie in D-1 college football was 1983’s Oregon-Oregon State game which featured 11 turnovers [6 fumbles and 5 interceptions] and 4 missed field goals, but no overtime. This one would require equal, but less obvious, ineptitude.

*With five weeks to go, a Patriot League team will have a Bye in each of those five weeks, demonstrating how difficult it is to schedule an OOC game late in the season. An odd number (7 teams) doesn’t work for League scheduling.

[the last indian]

Harvard head coach, Tim Murphy’s scathing indictment of Patriot League recruiting and, by extension, quality of play, continues to reverberate around the League. We will, for the moment, side step that land mine and move on to the part of the season where the halt and the lame have at each other for no reason other than to win a very hollow championship and move on to annihilation and embarrassment in the postseason.

We are guaranteed that three Patriot League teams will emerge victorious this week. Or are we (see Game of the Week, below)?

COLGATE @ HOLY CROSS
FORDHAM @ GEORGETOWN
BUCKNELL @ LAFAYETTE

Bye*: LEHIGH

Game of the Week: Bucknell @ Lafayette. With a nod to what coulda/shoulda been in Woo (but is now pretty much a “so what?!”) all eyes should be on Easton to see if Lafayette can get its League mojo working again to unbelievably remain undefeated in the League and in first place. Perhaps the big question is whether these two defenses, going against invisible offenses, can produce the first - and theoretically impossible - 0-0 tie since the NCAA implemented its overtime rules for D-1 in 1996. The last 0-0 tie in D-1 college football was 1983’s Oregon-Oregon State game which featured 11 turnovers [6 fumbles and 5 interceptions] and 4 missed field goals, but no overtime. This one would require equal, but less obvious, ineptitude.

*With five weeks to go, a Patriot League team will have a Bye in each of those five weeks, demonstrating how difficult it is to schedule an OOC game late in the season. An odd number (7 teams) doesn’t work for League scheduling.

So pray tell, Carney, what did Murphy say about the PL?

[CHIP72]

The best team on that list of games might be Bye.

[bonarae]

Difficult week to predict.

Colgate
Fordham
Bucknell

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

[carney2]

So pray tell, Carney, what did Murphy say about the PL?

This was a big topic in the Week 7 Pick 'em, but for those who missed it - from Paul Reinhard who follows Lafayette for the Allentown Mourning Crawl:

Murphy was asked about the difference of recruiting against Patriot League schools since they can now give merit scholarships while the Ivies stick to their financial aid system.


“To be perfectly honest, I thought it would have a bigger impact than it has,” Murphy said. “There is some better skill in the league, certainly, but I don’t think the quality of the programs is that much different than it was five or 10 years ago. It’s really good football but not necessarily as impactful as I thought it might be. And I think a lot of kids on the Patriot League teams now would have been on the same teams if they didn’t have scholarships.”

[carney2]

COLGATE @ HOLY CROSS – The Cross has hit rock bottom and are now furiously digging to find new depths of incompetence. Whodathunk that a Pujals team could go ohfer a Saturday afternoon.

FORDHAM @ GEORGETOWN – The Rams might be able to eke this one out. The operative word is might.

BUCKNELL @ LAFAYETTE – The team with a bad offense is better than the team with absolutely no offense at all. Too bad because this truly sorryass League deserves to have a team like Lafayette walk away with their trophy and represent them in the playoffs.

[Lehigh'98]

Fordham is the smallest of the small this year. Georgetown will win that game.

[kdinva]

COLGATE 28 @ HOLY CROSS 38
FORDHAM 17 @ GEORGETOWN 19
BUCKNELL 23 @ LAFAYETTE 21

[ColgateTD]

[QUOTE=carney2;2547631] Perhaps the big question is whether these two defenses, going against invisible offenses, can produce the first - and theoretically impossible - 0-0 tie since the NCAA implemented its overtime rules for D-1 in 1996. The last 0-0 tie in D-1 college football was 1983’s Oregon-Oregon State game which featured 11 turnovers [6 fumbles and 5 interceptions] and 4 missed field goals, but no overtime. This one would require equal, but less obvious, ineptitude.)

I foresee a 2-2 tie going into the last minute of play, at which point the refs stop the game due to lightning and thunderstorms, to be completed next season as part of a doubleheader.

Kudos to Carney on the Leopards "fantastic" season. My crystal ball sees a match-up vs. Sam Houston State for the Pards in the post-season :)

[CHIP72]

Maybe the final score of the Bucknell/Lafayette game will be 6-4 like that Penn State/Iowa game back in 2004 (which I remember watching on TV).

[World]

Colgate
Fordham
Bucknell

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Colgate
Georgetown
Bucknell

29-8 on the year

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This outcome is definitely in play for Bucknell/Lafayette

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/e4SHSZevtNcMqjjbkLv7XdZTqM8=/0x0:599x337/1600x900/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/52322037/beamer.0.0.jpeg

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Just noticed the tiniest of chips on my shoulder:
Bucknell went 3-2 out of conference. How'd y'all do?
FWIW, the Bison kicking game has been integral to its success this season. Pechin can punt with accuracy. Opponents can expect to start drives inside their own 20 often. John Burdick kicked four field goals against Cornell, and hit a 46 yarder as time expired against Sacred Heart to win the game.

The offense is still young. The defense still stingy.

So yeah, maybe 9-7 or 12-10.

[ngineer]

Very close to the Oregon/Oregon State game of 1983 is the Lehigh-Lafayette game of 1966, I think The 100th meeting of the two schools ending in a 6-6 tie with both teams missing their xp's.

My picks: Holy Cross could be very dangerous. One never knows how kids will react to something like a firing. If they really liked Gilmore, their heads could be up their arses. If they are glad to see him leave, they may be relieved and play with a passion. Who knows? Colgate is solid, so I will go with solid over a 'fluid' situation. Raiders 35-27.

Georgetown has a big DL and I suspect will try and really jam the Ram running game. Is Edmonds still hurt? Lehigh had a very effective run game against the Hoyas, so if the Rams can get it together on O, they can certainly win, but I will say the Hoyas played hard against Lehigh despite never really being in the game. They did not quit, so I think they will get their due beat Fordham, 27-24.

Bucky's O is a project. Laughyette's O is pathetic. As pointed out by another, BU's kicking game seems quite solid and such edges usually produce wins in tight games. Have to get the nod to the Bison, 20-10.

[cx500d]

COLGATE
GEORGETOWN
BUCKNELL

[carney2]

Very close to the Oregon/Oregon State game of 1983 is the Lehigh-Lafayette game of 1966, I think The 100th meeting of the two schools ending in a 6-6 tie with both teams missing their xp's

I was there. And, it was 1964, not 1966. Both teams deserved to lose so this outcome was as good as you could get.

[ngineer]

I was there. And, it was 1964, not 1966. Both teams deserved to lose so this outcome was as good as you could get.

Yes, after I submitted I thought it might have been '64. Lehigh was so putrid back then the entire era of 'wandering in the desert' melds into one epoch.

[RichH2]

Yes, after I submitted I thought it might have been '64. Lehigh was so putrid back then the entire era of 'wandering in the desert' melds into one epoch.

My era sadly. Caught tail end of Leckonby, suffered thru Cooley and start of Dunlap.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh's record during a 1960's stretch:

1963: 1-8
1964: 1-7-1 (the tie being the 100th)
1965: 1-8
1966: 0-9
1967: 1-8

Three of those years were Fred Dunlap's first three years at Lehigh. Imagine an AD having enough patience to wait through three years of that to get good in this day and age...

I took a peek at that disastrous 1966 season a little bit after Lehigh's 0-5 start (1966 was the last season Lehigh started a season 0-6). There were some awful losses in there to Drexel, Gettysburg and to (even back then) a pretty bad Davidson team. It was a time of real upheaval, I feel at Lehigh in general (and indeed college campuses around the nation).

[Sader87]

It was actually the later 60s and early 70s when college campuses were in relative upheaval...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It was actually the later 60s and early 70s when college campuses were in relative upheaval...

Reading the Lehigh student papers of the time there was a lot of unusual talk about civil rights, allowing women (it was all-men at that point) and there was even controversy about giving Robert McNamara an honorary degree. It wasn't protests at that point but you can sense something was bubbling up (in retrospect, reading it now).

[Gangtackle11]

Last Week: 4-1 Season: 26-15

COLGATE @ HOLY CROSS
FORDHAM @ GEORGETOWN
BUCKNELL @ LAFAYETTE

[TheValleyRaider]

3-2 last week, which I deserve for getting cute (Lafayette over Harvard? Cornell over anyone?!?). 26-15 for the year. Stretch run coming, time to turn it on.

Colgate at Holy Cross Colgate This game got a lot more uncomfortable with Gilmore's firing. Not so much because their interim is the coach the Saders have long been waiting for, but because we have no idea what to expect now. Was Gilmore the problem, and getting rid of him always a dead-team-walking to play looser? Or is this just a bad team that had an absurdly good day against UNH? I like the effort against Fordham after the disappointment against Lehigh, now they have to keep it going against a potential title foe.

Fordham at Georgetown Fordham What happened to the Rams? Coaches are important, sure, and Moorhead was clearly a good one, but...wow. Does anyone ride the coaching roller coaster quite like the Rams? As for this Catholic contest, I still think the Rams are capable of a few points, which remains Georgetown's weakness.

Bucknell at Lafayette Bucknell I hesitated here, as it would mean all three road teams picking up wins. At this point Fordham is probably the weakest of the 3, but they are also not playing a team that's 2-0 in PL play. A few people already beat me to some 0-0 jokes, so I'll give the plain observation that first to 14 probably wins. Assuming either of them can get there. If it is someone, though, I'm guessing the Bison. Prepare accordingly for the Big XII-style shootout this prediction guarantees.

[RichH2]

Too many questions to pick yet. Is Anderson in or out for Saturday?
One definite tho, Lehigh D will dominate this week :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Something to mention in regards to Bucknell/Lafayette - maybe we've been a bit too harsh in terms of the lack of scoring. After all, Bucknell and Lafayette both boast the League's two best kickers. If the offenses can simply get to the opposition's 30 yard line on a regular basis, perhaps a 15-12 or 15-14 (four FG + a safety) final score might be in play.

[carney2]

Something to mention in regards to Bucknell/Lafayette - maybe we've been a bit too harsh in terms of the lack of scoring. After all, Bucknell and Lafayette both boast the League's two best kickers. If the offenses can simply get to the opposition's 30 yard line on a regular basis, perhaps a 15-12 or 15-14 (four FG + a safety) final score might be in play.

Maybe. The Lafayette kicker is a second team freshman walk-on because the regular kicker was injured early in the season and is apparently not going to be available anymore in 2017. The freshman is doing a credible job and even booted that final play of the game FG to beat Holy Cross, but he's not at the same level as the guy who's injured.

[Leopard Loyalist]

Lehigh's record during a 1960's stretch:

1963: 1-8
1964: 1-7-1 (the tie being the 100th)
1965: 1-8
1966: 0-9
1967: 1-8

Three of those years were Fred Dunlap's first three years at Lehigh. Imagine an AD having enough patience to wait through three years of that to get good in this day and age...

I took a peek at that disastrous 1966 season a little bit after Lehigh's 0-5 start (1966 was the last season Lehigh started a season 0-6). There were some awful losses in there to Drexel, Gettysburg and to (even back then) a pretty bad Davidson team. It was a time of real upheaval, I feel at Lehigh in general (and indeed college campuses around the nation).

But half of those four wins were over Lafayette. xsighx

[ngineer]

But half of those four wins were over Lafayette. xsighx

Which helped save Fred his job at the time. Dunlap should be in the Lehigh Sports HOF. He was the one who had the perseverance to keep to his plan and turn the football program into what has been pretty successful over the long haul.

[RichH2]

Which helped save Fred his job at the time. Dunlap should be in the Lehigh Sports HOF. He was the one who had the perseverance to keep to his plan and turn the football program into what has been pretty successful over the long haul.

Must remember when Leckonby moved up to AD, University "deemphasized" athletics. Leckonby went to war and eventually won a grudging victory. Cost Cooley his job but we got Fred. Took Fred a full five to rebuild a program that had been tops in the East the 1st couple of yrs in the 60s. Dunlap did a remarkable job.

[ColgateTD]

Colgate - I believe the "Yale" Holy Cross will show up, not the "UNH" Holy Cross, despite Gilmore's departure.
Georgetown - Good defense beats "meh" offense; Edmonds was held in check last week.
Bucknell - Unlike others, I see a high scoring game; it's always the opposite of what you think it will be.

[van]

Too many questions to pick yet. Is Anderson in or out for Saturday?
One definite tho, Lehigh D will dominate this week :)

rumor on the Rams board is that Anderson was not hurt last week, sat for some other reason? Any Rams confirm?

also, seems Buffs have a good number of D starters out as well, will never know since there are no Buff fans here

[Bluefish845]

Colgate
Fordham
Bucknell

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

rumor on the Rams board is that Anderson was not hurt last week, sat for some other reason? Any Rams confirm?

also, seems Buffs have a good number of D starters out as well, will never know since there are no Buff fans here

His wrist/hand was clearly hurt when I was watching.

[RichH2]

rumor on the Rams board is that Anderson was not hurt last week, sat for some other reason? Any Rams confirm?

also, seems Buffs have a good number of D starters out as well, will never know since there are no Buff fans here
137 listed injuries pver on Pard board. 6 starters out. Switched from 4-2- 5 to a 3-3 due to too few DL. 2ndary partixularly S ravaged. On O DeFlorio put with ankle.

[carney2]

there are no Buff fans here

Do they have any football fans anywhere?

[Sader87]

Must remember when Leckonby moved up to AD, University "deemphasized" athletics. Leckonby went to war and eventually won a grudging victory. Cost Cooley his job but we got Fred. Took Fred a full five to rebuild a program that had been tops in the East the 1st couple of yrs in the 60s. Dunlap did a remarkable job.

ummm.....tops in the East???

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Do they have any football fans anywhere?

Now, now, let's be fair - they're probably camping out for single-game tickets to see the home opener vs. Monmouth on November 10th.

[RichH2]

ummm.....tops in the East???

At our level. Won Lambert.

[Go...gate]

Which helped save Fred his job at the time. Dunlap should be in the Lehigh Sports HOF. He was the one who had the perseverance to keep to his plan and turn the football program into what has been pretty successful over the long haul.

He's not? That seems like a major oversight.

He is a Colgate treasure.

[ngineer]

He's not? That seems like a major oversight.

He is a Colgate treasure.

And he should be. He is your alum, but he resurrected a moribund program at Lehigh. You should get his son's book, The Dunlap Rules . I would think the CU bookstore would carry it. I have my personally signed copy on my shelf. A really good read for anyone interested in seeing how having set standard of values and rules and keeping to them can be a success at whatever you do.

[Go...gate]

And he should be. He is your alum, but he resurrected a moribund program at Lehigh. You should get his son's book, The Dunlap Rules . I would think the CU bookstore would carry it. I have my personally signed copy on my shelf. A really good read for anyone interested in seeing how having set standard of values and rules and keeping to them can be a success at whatever you do.

I have the book, which is outstanding. Coach D and his wife Marilyn are remarkable people.

A lot of people don't know that Dunlap was approached by several eastern schools while he was at Colgate. Princeton badly wanted him, as did West Point and Rutgers. On each occasion, he elected to stay at Colgate.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Now, now, let's be fair - they're probably camping out for single-game tickets to see the home opener vs. Monmouth on November 10th.

The opener is actually at Monmouth, November 10th, 8:30pm. Fan buses are going. It will be a tough ticket.

[Go...gate]

The opener is actually at Monmouth, November 10th, 8:30pm. Fan buses are going. It will be a tough ticket.

That should be a good game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The opener is actually at Monmouth, November 10th, 8:30pm. Fan buses are going. It will be a tough ticket.

Before DFW chimes in, I'm guessing that the home football game the following day vs. Georgetown will be a slightly easier ticket to get.

[RichH2]

So are we going to have a preseason Bball poll here or what ? :)

[BucBisonAtLarge]

That should be a good game.

The OOC hoops schedule is rugged-- UNC, Arkansas, and Maryland...

I am a Bucknell football fan, follow the team but don't have the depth chart up on my screen out here in NM. I defer to all relevant detail to 137, our savant.

[Gate83]

I have the book, which is outstanding. Coach D and his wife Marilyn are remarkable people.

A lot of people don't know that Dunlap was approached by several eastern schools while he was at Colgate. Princeton badly wanted him, as did West Point and Rutgers. On each occasion, he elected to stay at Colgate.

Saw the Dunlaps last weekend at the game, at 89 Fred looks great. As mentioned, a true Gate legend.

[carney2]

Saw the Dunlaps last weekend at the game, at 89 Fred looks great. As mentioned, a true Gate legend.

Just sayin': Not everyone worships at the Dunlap shrine. Freddie is on a list of folks who really pi$$ed me off when I was younger. I do not consider him a sportsman and a gentleman. We've had this discussion here before and I'm not going into it again. I understand the position of the gaters who worship him. Just wanted folks to know that the cult of adoration isn't universal.

[ColgateTD]

Just sayin': Not everyone worships at the Dunlap shrine. Freddie is on a list of folks who really pi$$ed me off when I was younger. I do not consider him a sportsman and a gentleman. We've had this discussion here before and I'm not going into it again. I understand the position of the gaters who worship him. Just wanted folks to know that the cult of adoration isn't universal.

Say, what?

[carney2]

Say, what?

If you insist, one more time: Nov. 23, 1974 - Lehigh 57, Lafayette 7. The game was over at the coin toss, but Lehigh head coach, Fred Dunlap, had his first team QB (must have been Joe Sterrett; McQuilken graduated in 1974 and, I believe, Sterrett was next in line) throwing bombs with less than 5 minutes to go in the game. He was, and is, a total ***** in my book.

[Pards Rule]

If you insist, one more time: Nov. 23, 1974 - Lehigh 57, Lafayette 7. The game was over at the coin toss, but Lehigh head coach, Fred Dunlap, had his first team QB (must have been Joe Sterrett; McQuilken graduated in 1974 and, I believe, Sterrett was next in line) throwing bombs with less than 5 minutes to go in the game. He was, and is, a total ***** in my book.


Seriously?? Why wasnt 2nd or 3rd string QB in there??

[carney2]

Seriously?? Why wasnt 2nd or 3rd string QB in there??

Yes, why wasn't he? And, why was it still bombs away in a blowout?! I have a visual image of Kim McQuilken doing much the same thing for coach Freddie the Sportsman, but it had to be in '73 when the score was only 45-13.

[Southsider]

Because it’s Lafayette! With LU D this year, maybe you can return the gesture.��

[Go...gate]

Did Lafayette ever do anything like that to one of Dunlap's teams when Lehigh struggled in Dunlap's early years?

I do remember Coach D running it up once, on Cornell in 1983 at Ithaca. Early on, the Big Red knocked two or three of our guys out of the game (and I believe for much of the season) on penalized hits. Final was Colgate 60, Cornell 7.

[Go...gate]

FWIW, Coach D ran it up on Colgate a couple of times, too. He put up 58 on us in '72, and gave us a hell of a beating in '75.

Some of that stuff is overblown sometimes.

[Lehigh'98]

FWIW, Coach D ran it up on Colgate a couple of times, too. He put up 58 on us in '72, and gave us a hell of a beating in '75.

Some of that stuff is overblown sometimes.

Worst beating we took in my four years was up in Hamilton in 1997. You guys put up 60 something on us.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Worst beating we took in my four years was up in Hamilton in 1997. You guys put up 60 something on us.

I was at that game! It was my first trip to Hamilton and it was was brutal minus the great early October weather that day! 1999 was more painful but not nearly as ugly. Didn't Colgate have, or close to, 600 yards rushing? Lehigh entered the 1997 as the preseason favorite and struggled. The talent was there (Martucci, Stambaugh, Braswell, Jean, Baker etc) but for whatever you guys couldn't put it all together.

That was a darn good Colgate team. Vena was starting to take control and despite playing a brutal schedule, they hung in with basically everyone.

[van]

COLGATE @ HOLY CROSS, based on the body of work Gate is the better team, notwithstanding the coaching upheaval, will be interesting to see how this goes

FORDHAM @ GEORGETOWN, Rams are reeling and Hoyas may have just found a QB, now if Chase and Anderson are healthy it could go the other way

BUCKNELL @ LAFAYETTE, Buffs are apparently down a bunch of starters and Pards, despite no running game, find ways to win


24-17 on the year

[Lehigh'98]

I was at that game! It was my first trip to Hamilton and it was was brutal minus the great early October weather that day! 1999 was more painful but not nearly as ugly. Didn't Colgate have, or close to, 600 yards rushing? Lehigh entered the 1997 as the preseason favorite and struggled. The talent was there (Martucci, Stambaugh, Braswell, Jean, Baker etc) but for whatever you guys couldn't put it all together.

That was a darn good Colgate team. Vena was starting to take control and despite playing a brutal schedule, they hung in with basically everyone.

Had a good offense that year. Defense wasn't great. Big loss to Fordham to open season hurt. I think we had a big win over Dartmouth, ending a long winning streak of their's.

[carney2]

Did Lafayette ever do anything like that to one of Dunlap's teams when Lehigh struggled in Dunlap's early years?

Think. THINK!! You're talking about Lafayette here. How many times in all the years that you've been following football could the Leopards run it up on anyone - even the College of Faith? One more time: THINK!!!!! Besides, thoe were really bad Lafayette teams under Neal Putnam and some of his predecessors.

[ngineer]

I was at that game! It was my first trip to Hamilton and it was was brutal minus the great early October weather that day! 1999 was more painful but not nearly as ugly. Didn't Colgate have, or close to, 600 yards rushing? Lehigh entered the 1997 as the preseason favorite and struggled. The talent was there (Martucci, Stambaugh, Braswell, Jean, Baker etc) but for whatever you guys couldn't put it all together.

That was a darn good Colgate team. Vena was starting to take control and despite playing a brutal schedule, they hung in with basically everyone.

Most of those guys were just freshmen or sophs. 1997 Stambaugh didn't start until about the 6th or 7th game. I think the team went 4-7, but the second half of the season Higgins planned for the future and went with the youth movement which paid enormous dividends from 1998-2001.

[ngineer]

If you insist, one more time: Nov. 23, 1974 - Lehigh 57, Lafayette 7. The game was over at the coin toss, but Lehigh head coach, Fred Dunlap, had his first team QB (must have been Joe Sterrett; McQuilken graduated in 1974 and, I believe, Sterrett was next in line) throwing bombs with less than 5 minutes to go in the game. He was, and is, a total ***** in my book.

If Sterrett was chuckin' he WAS the second string QB in 1974. Joe Alleva (now LSU A.D.) was the QB in 1974. I came back for that game (graduated in May) and remember the goal posts came down at halftime! Fred had a ton of second and third stringers in....BUT he let them play.

[Lehigh'98]

Most of those guys were just freshmen or sophs. 1997 Stambaugh didn't start until about the 6th or 7th game. I think the team went 4-7, but the second half of the season Higgins planned for the future and went with the youth movement which paid enormous dividends from 1998-2001.

Stambaugh started all 97. Year prior was halfway through. The biggest difference between 98-01 from before was the defense and the amount of speed and skill they had. Bott came on in 98 an looked like a genius back then, but Higgins had recruited exceptionally well on defense.

[Go...gate]

Think. THINK!! You're talking about Lafayette here. How many times in all the years that you've been following football could the Leopards run it up on anyone - even the College of Faith? One more time: THINK!!!!! Besides, those were really bad Lafayette teams under Neal Putnam and some of his predecessors.

I get it, I get it, Carney2. You have made your point and made it well. But it just does not seem like him. Maybe he mellowed as he got older.

[Go...gate]

Stambaugh started all 97. Year prior was halfway through. The biggest difference between 98-01 from before was the defense and the amount of speed and skill they had. Bott came on in 98 an looked like a genius back then, but Higgins had recruited exceptionally well on defense.

Lehigh had a hell of a club in 1998. IMO, had a chance to go all the way.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Think. THINK!! You're talking about Lafayette here. How many times in all the years that you've been following football could the Leopards run it up on anyone - even the College of Faith? One more time: THINK!!!!! Besides, thoe were really bad Lafayette teams under Neal Putnam and some of his predecessors.

I dunno, Erik Marsh did a pretty good job running it up, over and through Lehigh in 1994.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh had a hell of a club in 1998. IMO, had a chance to go all the way.

They did! What's amazing about the 1998 team is the improvement from the start of the year to the end. They nearly lost to St. Mary's and Columbia before the light when on against Colgate. Following the win against the then Red Raiders Lehigh played as well as anyone in the country.

1999 was basically the opposite. They were easily one of the top 2-3 teams in 1AA the first 6-7 weeks of the year but lost their mojo by late October.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I dunno, Erik Marsh did a pretty good job running it up, over and through Lehigh in 1994.

Marsh was such a monster. Lafayette absolutely steamrolled Lehigh in '94 down in Easton. IIRC that game was for the PL Title? I know Lehigh finished 5-5-1 (last tie ever). I'm pretty sure the tie came against Columbia??

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Stambaugh started all 97. Year prior was halfway through. The biggest difference between 98-01 from before was the defense and the amount of speed and skill they had. Bott came on in 98 an looked like a genius back then, but Higgins had recruited exceptionally well on defense.

The talent on defense back then was insane. Martucci, Eason, Bubba Young, Appling, Byron, Slaton, Pettit, Andrews, Salvatterra etc were big time players at this level. There's 3-4 1st team TSN All-Americans in that list. I know the scholarship HC teams were great but the talent level at Lehigh for that 4-6 year period was just as good. You'll never see another PL team post 3 undefeated regular seasons in a 4 year span. Think about that for a second! The 4th year, 1999, they went 10-1!!! Four year regular season record, 42-1!!!To this day I have no idea how Higgins landed those classes without scholarships.

Those teams played with serious swagger too. I know Lafayette fans think Coen's teams can be chippy but they're nothing relative to the '98, '99 and '00 Higgins squads. They were a reflection of his personality.

[Pards Rule]

Marsh was such a monster. Lafayette absolutely steamrolled Lehigh in '94 down in Easton. IIRC that game was for the PL Title? I know Lehigh finished 5-5-1 (last tie ever). I'm pretty sure the tie came against Columbia??

LTUO - I believe it was. 1994 started 0-6 for the Pards BUT all the remaining games were Patriot foes and we ran the table 5-0 including the 54-20 final game. That was the infamous game where the actual Pard got it on with Lehigh fans sitting on home side! And I was announcing it to my friends in the stands: and the Pard gives a right paw! That Pard didnt back down!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

LTUO - I believe it was. 1994 started 0-6 for the Pards BUT all the remaining games were Patriot foes and we ran the table 5-0 including the 54-20 final game. That was the infamous game where the actual Pard got it on with Lehigh fans sitting on home side! And I was announcing it to my friends in the stands: and the Pard gives a right paw! That Pard didnt back down!

Lafayette started the season with a loss to East Stroudsburg if iirc. Crazy season...

[Franks Tanks]

Lafayette started the season with a loss to East Stroudsburg if iirc. Crazy season...

James Franklin was the QB for ESU that year.

[Lafalumni29]

James Franklin was the QB for ESU that year.


The ESU RB was a Penn State transfer. 6'4" and 225lbs. A monster in those days!

[Lehigh'98]

The talent on defense back then was insane. Martucci, Eason, Bubba Young, Appling, Byron, Slaton, Pettit, Andrews, Salvatterra etc were big time players at this level. There's 3-4 1st team TSN All-Americans in that list. I know the scholarship HC teams were great but the talent level at Lehigh for that 4-6 year period was just as good. You'll never see another PL team post 3 undefeated regular seasons in a 4 year span. Think about that for a second! The 4th year, 1999, they went 10-1!!! Four year regular season record, 42-1!!!To this day I have no idea how Higgins landed those classes without scholarships.

Those teams played with serious swagger too. I know Lafayette fans think Coen's teams can be chippy but they're nothing relative to the '98, '99 and '00 Higgins squads. They were a reflection of his personality.

He was able to recruit guys with chips on their shoulder. Offense was more raw talent.

[RichH2]

Gate
Fordham
Bucknell

Any one of the above could lose. Not a sure lock on the schedule this week.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Gate by double digits
GTown
Bucknell

Got a hunch Lafayette/Bucknell will be a real thriller that could go either way.

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross 26, Colgate 24

Georgetown 20, Fordham 16

Bucknell 13, Lafayette 7

Bonus Picks:

Harvard 21, Princeton 20

Hun 34, Lawrenceville 28

[Leopard Loyalist]

COLGATE @ HOLY CROSS
FORDHAM @ GEORGETOWN
BUCKNELL @ LAFAYETTE

[Gate83]

If you insist, one more time: Nov. 23, 1974 - Lehigh 57, Lafayette 7. The game was over at the coin toss, but Lehigh head coach, Fred Dunlap, had his first team QB (must have been Joe Sterrett; McQuilken graduated in 1974 and, I believe, Sterrett was next in line) throwing bombs with less than 5 minutes to go in the game. He was, and is, a total ***** in my book.

So one blowout 43 years ago is the source of your angst? You must be Irish (never forget a grudge), but I think if you ever met Fred personally you'd feel differently. One of the classiest men I've met, in a sports context or otherwise...

[Sader87]

If you want an absolute certainty.....Holy Cross will beat Colgate tomorrow

[Lehigh'98]

Princeton opening a can on Harvard.

[Gate83]

If you want an absolute certainty.....Holy Cross will beat Colgate tomorrow

I see two scenarios... a senior dominated Cross squad that truly hated its coach plays inspired football & squeaks by us, or our young team takes an early punch, wears down the Purple like usual & pulls away in the 4th. Sorry I won't be there to see which script gets followed!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If you want an absolute certainty.....Holy Cross will beat Colgate tomorrow

Killabee?

[Colgate Raider Redux]

If you want an absolute certainty.....Holy Cross will beat Colgate tomorrow

Having a conviction of absolute certainty about the outcome of this game would interfere with my critical viewing. I'm curious whether not having Tom Gilmore to blame will provide some additional insight into how H.C. collapsed in the last 3, going on 4 games. Here's one theory to contemplate. The Lafayette employee TV commentators covering the L.U.-H.C. game acknowledged repeatedly on air that Lafayette introduced "D adjustments and looks" in the H.C. game, not seen before by H.C. via prior Lafayette film. I'd add that H.C. has seen variants of these "D adjustments and looks" in every game since.

There have been various rants about how Gilmore's leadership influenced H.C.'s erratic performance since their big win over N.H., subsequent defeat of Bucknell and respectable loss at Dartmouth. I'm not refuting Tom's "contribution." But, I'm also curious about how the L.U.-H.C. game provided the framework for defending the Pujals-razzle-dazzle-spread-offense that subsequent opposing D coordinators adapted. The L.U.-H.C. game film documents some approaches later incorporated into the D. game planning of ( Monmouth, Yale and now ) Colgate ? You may want to compare the archived H.C.-Lafayette and the H.C.- Colgate games to challenge how you arrive at "absolute certainty" about future H.C. games. : https://watchstadium.com/live/lafayette-at-holy-cross-5/

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate
Georgetown
Bucknell

[ColgateTD]

So one blowout 43 years ago is the source of your angst? You must be Irish (never forget a grudge), but I think if you ever met Fred personally you'd feel differently. One of the classiest men I've met, in a sports context or otherwise...

+1 The head FB coaching position is named in his honor. Is there any refuting the impact he's had on both LU and 'Gate gridders?

[crusader11]

I'll be surprised if HC loses to Colgate today.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let me go the other way with this - I'd be surprised if Holy Cross wins this game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Took 3:01 for Colgate to go up 7-0

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 7
Holy Cross 7
End 1st

First time I've gotten to see the Raiders since the Cornell game, and our offense has clearly improved. A few penalties hurt, especially forcing some 3rd and longs. Conversions are nice, but you don't want to have to do that all day. Great to see we're controlling the ball as well. Pujals looked good on HC's one drive, but the Raiders are driving deep in HC territory.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

10-7 Gate early 2nd

Wasn't McBeath supposed to sit a half for targeting?

[Pards Rule]

Lafayette started the season with a loss to East Stroudsburg if iirc. Crazy season...


Yes sir...loss to ESU 31-14, loss to Penn 27-7, loss to Hofstra 27-6, Loss to Columbia 28-13, loss to Dartmouth 27-15 and get this last loss was to Navy 7-0!!!!

[Colgate Raider Redux]

I'll be surprised if HC loses to Colgate today.

If affirmations from the purple faithful could win ball games, H.C. would be national champs every year.

[Pards Rule]

Updates please on HC-Colgate game, thank you

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 17
Holy Cross 7
Halftime

Great effort from both offense and defense so far. Raiders controlling the clock and controlling the game to this point. The most dangerous HC has looked got them inside the 10, where they promptly fumbled. HC gets the ball to start the 2nd half, though, and are not too far out of it that a score couldn't make this interesting.

- - - Updated - - -


If affirmations from the purple faithful could win ball games, H.C. would be national champs every year.

Nah, they'd just be in the Big East :p

[Remise]

Updates please on HC-Colgate game, thank you

If you able to watch it, you can see the second half here, free of charge: https://watchstadium.com/live/colgate-at-holy-cross-4/

[ColgateTD]

If you able to watch it, you can see the second half here, free of charge: https://watchstadium.com/live/colgate-at-holy-cross-4/

Tv reception outstanding here in central NY

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

HC needs to clean house. Rock's offense consists of hoping Pujals pulls something off

[Sader87]

I couldn't have been more wrong....long rebuild is needed I fear.

What happened to this team????

[carney2]

It's over in Woo and we're barely past halftime. I'm guessing it wasn't the coach.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Last week was bad against Yale but this is "Rock Bottom". Blow it up and start over with a new coach, new qb and new identity....

[DFW HOYA]

Last week was bad against Yale but this is "Rock Bottom".

No that's next week when Georgetown gets up on the Cross.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 38
Holy Cross 7
End 3rd

This got out of hand in a hurry. Pick 6 and a long TD pass in the first 5 minutes opened it up, while another score off another pick closed the 3rd. Defense has been strong, offense has controlled the game. Penalties are bothersome, but that almost feels like nitpicking at this point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sorry, Cross fans.

[Sader87]

Long story short, it's a disaster at HC right now. Gilmore should have been fired at least 3 years ago and this is the result of keeping him on as coach.

A complete and total overhaul is needed starting right after the Lehigh game.

[ColgateTD]

45-7 with 4 minutes to go.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate 45
Holy Cross 7
Final

I admit, I stopped watching after the 3rd. Good game all around by the Raiders. The change in coaches seems to have made no impact, and as the season goes along, it boggles the mind that this team crushed New Hampshire. Pujals finishes his career winless against the Raiders.

On to Bucknell

[RichH2]

Picked Gate to win actually thought Cross would show up. A bit surprised that they put up no game at all.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate 45
Holy Cross 7
Final

I admit, I stopped watching after the 3rd. Good game all around by the Raiders. The change in coaches seems to have made no impact, and as the season goes along, it boggles the mind that this team crushed New Hampshire. Pujals finishes his career winless against the Raiders.

On to Bucknell

That was a thorough butt kicking! Lehigh definitely got some favors against Colgate (no guarantee Raiders win without the penalties) so it's a shame that game was robbed of a better ending. Bucknell will be interesting next week if be they beat Lafayette.

[DFW HOYA]

Another exciting half of Patriot league offense in Washington:

Fordham 8
Georgetown 6

[Pards Rule]

Early pick 6 and Bucknell up 7-0

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Another exciting half of Patriot league offense in Washington:

Fordham 8
Georgetown 6

GTown actually tied this game, but the XP was blocked and returned for 2 points to give Fordham 8-6 lead.

- - - Updated - - -


Early pick 6 and Bucknell up 7-0

Of course!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lafayette's OL is in for a long evening....

[DFW HOYA]

3rd qtr:

Georgetown 9
Fordham 8

...
Rams have now moved into double digits.

Fordham 14
Georgetown 9

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

O'Malley is going to have about 65 pass attempts in this game and the Leopards are going to rush for about -13 yards....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lafayette forces a fumble inside of Bucknell territory but the Leopard offense can't gain a yard...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Maybe Bucknell should just take a knee the rest of the game on offense and put the scoring unit on the field the rest of the way, their defense.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fordham 17
GTown 9

Final

GTown had four shots on offense to drive the length of the field and potentially tie. Couldn't.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Didn't we essentially predict on Tuesday that neither offense in the game might score in the Bucknell/Lafayette game? For a half, it's been true. Unless you count the Pick Six as a score.

[CHIP72]

Maybe Bucknell should just take a knee the rest of the game on offense and put the scoring unit on the field the rest of the way, their defense.

Maybe Coach Garrett needs Bobby Boucher to show up and encourage him to think of puppies or something.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

https://ton.twimg.com/tweetdeck-web/web/assets/emoji/1f6a8.7a683f6cda.png Alert https://ton.twimg.com/tweetdeck-web/web/assets/emoji/1f6a8.7a683f6cda.png Someone scored on offense in the Bucknell/Lafayette gameIt was Lafayette7-7 now mid 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Bucknell trying to use the 10 minute offense..

[CHIP72]

I would have never guessed that Bucknell's offense could put together such a long drive in a critical spot during the game.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Bucknell misses about a 40 yard fg with a little over a minute left in regulation.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Bison will get another chance as Lafayette has one of the fastest 3 and outs in the history of football...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This is BAAAD football. My goodness...

The fact Bucknell didn't take a shot deep on 3rd down is just terrible....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

7-7 and headed to OT!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://picsmine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Im-not-sleeping-just-resting-my-eyes-Sleeping-Meme.jpg

[CHIP72]

Could this be the longest scoreless overtime in college football history?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Could this be the longest scoreless overtime in college football history?

This reminds me a little of the VTech-Wake Forest 0-0 regulation game a few years ago...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Bucknell 13, Lafayette 7, Final.

Bucknell won with 2 pick sixes. OF COURSE!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

the perfect ending!! haha

[CHIP72]

Could this be the longest scoreless overtime in college football history?

LOL - for those of you not following along, it was one of the shortest. Bucknell intercepted a Lafayette pass on the first play of overtime and returned it for a touchdown. The Bison win 13-7.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Bucknell wins 14-7 with two defensive touchdowns! This will end Lafayette's dream of a PL title. Colgate will destroy them long before they meet Lehigh....

- - - Updated - - -


LOL - for those of you not following along, it was one of the shortest. Bucknell intercepted a Lafayette pass on the first play of overtime and returned it for a touchdown. The Bison win 13-7.

Just a bad pass that ended up being a floater into double coverage.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I wanted to gouge my eyes out for most of the 2nd half. Ugly, but a W. Still in contention for the bid....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I wanted to gouge my eyes out for most of the 2nd half. Ugly, but a W. Still in contention for the bid....

Until next week. Colgate and Lehigh should win their remaining league games by 2+ TD's. Both seem way ahead of the other 5 teams....

[CHIP72]

I'm not sure which loss today by an eastern Pennsylvania college football team was worse - Lafayette's or Temple's.

(Temple had a 7 point lead but allowed Army, not noted for their passing game, to drive down the field in the last 1 1/2 minutes to tie the game with 1 second left in regulation. Then in overtime, after Army kicked a FG, Temple missed a 28 yard FG to extend the game.)

[Colgate Raider Redux]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Sader87 http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=2551226#post2551226)

If you want an absolute certainty.....Holy Cross will beat Colgate tomorrow


Having a conviction of absolute certainty about the outcome of this game would interfere with my critical viewing. I'm curious whether not having Tom Gilmore to blame will provide some additional insight into how H.C. collapsed in the last 3, going on 4 games. Here's one theory to contemplate. The Lafayette employee TV commentators covering the L.U.-H.C. game acknowledged repeatedly on air that Lafayette introduced "D adjustments and looks" in the H.C. game, not seen before by H.C. via prior Lafayette film. I'd add that H.C. has seen variants of these "D adjustments and looks" in every game since.

There have been various rants about how Gilmore's leadership influenced H.C.'s erratic performance since their big win over N.H., subsequent defeat of Bucknell and respectable loss at Dartmouth. I'm not refuting Tom's "contribution." But, I'm also curious about how the L.U.-H.C. game provided the framework for defending the Pujals-razzle-dazzle-spread-offense that subsequent opposing D coordinators adapted. The L.U.-H.C. game film documents some approaches later incorporated into the D. game planning of ( Monmouth, Yale and now ) Colgate ? You may want to compare the archived H.C.-Lafayette and the H.C.- Colgate games to challenge how you arrive at "absolute certainty" about future H.C. games. : https://watchstadium.com/live/lafayette-at-holy-cross-5/

I think the circulation of 5 years of film of the "Pujals-razzle-dazzle-spread-offense" ( increasingly devoid of a PP running component ) symbolized H.C.'s chances of becoming a better program without a more in-depth makeover. A re-run. Of course there were/are many other threads coming loose from this bundle dubbed the new football program. This program was further cobbled together by reference to bubble-gum-traditions and bold scheduling-illusions-baling-wire packaged with a newly-hired-young-A.D-thought-to-be-a-wunderkind. One such thread was the fact that the A.D. held on to Gilmore too long. But, there's more. Partially because of the firing, there are other threads that can easily unravel this mess further to a new rock bottom before it gets any better. So, in contrast to hc87's prophecy, I wouldn't expect any uptick in performance for at least the next couple of years ...more of the same. And synchronizing H.C. football performance with other program conditions and initiatives, already dangling out there, seem problematic: 1. There will be few game experienced players returning for the 2018 season. 2. Expectations have been raised by scheduling high profile FBS programs; ramping up in 2018 and 2019 and normalizing in subsequent years. 3. Another "illusion," without specificity or a timetable, is improvement to the f.b. program from the new $95 mill Luth Athletic Center. Combined, these ramp up the pressure on this young-no-longer-a-wonderkind-A.D. and everybody else after the B.O.T. ponies up for Gilmore's buyout and for salaries for the new coach and staff.

[ngineer]

Wow. Took our bye week and went hiking with my granddaughters at Hawk Mountain, so when I saw the score and how it happened I laughed. My pick was Bison by 10-9...not far off. Must have been frustrating to watch.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Until next week. Colgate and Lehigh should win their remaining league games by 2+ TD's. Both seem way ahead of the other 5 teams....

Gonna dream that dream one more week. We have another three weeks til hoops.

[LehighU11]

Yikes, another ugly week for the Patriot League. On the bright side, College Football Final on ESPN showed a single FCS highlight--from the PL--to go along with 50 FBS highlights. Of course, the only play of significance out of this weekend's awful games was the OT pick six in Easton.

The Express-Times may have pulled the plug on LC and the PL, but I'm guessing that the highlight (lowlight?) of the Bucknell-Lafayette game brought more exposure to both than a whole season of newspaper coverage.