The Future of the Big South

[Reign of Terrier]

I have a few questions about the Big South as a football conference. As a basketball conference, the league is doing just fine with the team it has, but I'm wondering what the long-term plan is for the Big South.

Right now, the Big South has six teams and, if I'm not mistaken, another team to join in the next couple of years (North Alabama?). But they also will lose liberty to the FBS. I'm obviously not a close follower of the conference and I'm certain I'm missing some datapoints here.

Another point of concern, I think, is that Monmouth is not in the South and not close to many of the members (new and old). Further, don't you need a minimal amount of teams in a conference to become playoff eligible?

It's also not an option for the football conference to disolve and merge with the Socon. With the exception of Kennesaw and North Alabama(?), they don't really add much to the geographic footprint of the conference. I'd love to see the Socon grow to 12 teams and split into two divisions (like the CAA used to be), but that won't happen.

So what are the options for the Big South?

[WestCoastAggie]

Campbell will join next season as per the A-Sun/Big South agreement.

[SU DOG]

Campbell is going to be a nice addition to the Big South. Their football stadium, basketball arena, baseball stadium, and other athletic facilities are very very good. Interest in the football program is bringing good crowds, and their team is getting better. The future looks bright for the Camels, IMO. As a matter of fact, and this is just me, I think they would possibly even be a good addition for the SoCon sometimes in the future. Not saying it will ever happen, just saying that Campbell is trending upwards.

[NorthChuckSouth]

Like it's been said before.. Campbell is coming in next year and North Alabama is coming in the year after. Jacksonville has the option of coming in also. There's a couple other schools in the A-sun that have the same option if they ever started up a football program.

As far as monmouth.. yeah them being in the big south doesn't exactly go with the geographical footprint but the trip up there is cool for the players..a lot of the guys haven't been that far north before so it's pretty cool for them to get up there. I think they will become more competitive in the near future also.

Coastal and Liberty have been the "powerhouses" up until the past couple years so losing those programs hurt the conference but I think the new additions will be fine. Just going through a transition period so we'll see how it goes. I really think North Alabama will become a good team in fcs. I think the big south will be back to where it has been the previous 3-5 years in about 4-5 years.

@youngterrior I 100% agree that a merger would be good.. two subconferences and the winner those two play in a conference championship game. But I don't see how that could be beneficial with the playoff system FCS has in place.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'd like to see more consistency out of the three Carolina teams in the Big South before anyone throws around words like merger.

That's not to say it can't or won't happen (would be great if it did!), but they all need to play better and maintain it.

[Sir William]

The SoCon and the Big South will not merge b/c the SoCon does not need the Big South.

That said, I could see Campbell getting a SoCon invite in the next 6-8 years. A nice fit.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think Kennesaw would be a good fit too, but the problem with PC/GW/CSU is their location and consistency.

[JSUSoutherner]

If there's any shakeups happening in the SoCon please get our athletic department on the phone.

PLEASE.

[citdog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLhcyC6QNDw

[FUBeAR]

I think Kennesaw would be a good fit.

Yes - this should play very well with the Leadership of The Citadel & Virginia Military Institute...

https://media-beta.wsbtv.com/photo/2017/10/09/KneelingAnthem_1507591959655_9427033_ver1.0_640_36 0.jpg

[cx500d]

Yes - this should play very well with the Leadership of The Citadel & Virginia Military Institute...

https://media-beta.wsbtv.com/photo/2017/10/09/KneelingAnthem_1507591959655_9427033_ver1.0_640_36 0.jpg

Now the cheerleaders are doing it? At least they have 4 proud americans.

[tenNesseeCat]

If there's any shakeups happening in the SoCon please get our athletic department on the phone.

PLEASE.

I would LOVE that!!! I think it would help JSU and the SoCon. Throw in KSU and Campbell to make 12. Drop Campbell and add EKU maybe?

[citdog]

I would LOVE that!!! I think it would help JSU and the SoCon. Throw in KSU and Campbell to make 12.

NOPE. 9 is just fine...

http://docsouth.unc.edu/southlit/timrod/timrodfp.gif

[JSUSoutherner]

NOPE. 9 is just fine...

http://docsouth.unc.edu/southlit/timrod/timrodfp.gif

What don't feel like getting shut out?

[citdog]

What don't feel like getting shut out?


Nope. Just don't want to confederate with the likes of jacksonville state university. NOT shocked the Western contingent DOES though. Neither The Citadel nor furman wants you or we would have invited you. See coastal carolina...

[NorthChuckSouth]

I think Kennesaw would be a good fit too, but the problem with PC/GW/CSU is their location and consistency.

How is the location of PC/GW/CSU a problem?

[Reign of Terrier]

How is the location of PC/GW/CSU a problem?

Clinton, SC doesn't provide anything media-market wise that Furman or Wofford does. GW is like 20 minutes away from Wofford, same thing. Charleston Southern doesn't offer much that the Citadel doesn't with Charleston either.

If all three of them were premier FCS programs, it would be worth the invite (kind of like what the Big 12 did with TCU a couple years back), but right now the only one of them that's made the playoffs is Chuck South, and the jury is still out over whether they can sustain success or if their success was the Chadwell show.

[tenNesseeCat]

Nope. Just don't want to confederate with the likes of jacksonville state university. NOT shocked the Western contingent DOES though. Neither The Citadel nor furman wants you or we would have invited you. See coastal carolina...

No disrespect to anyone...but I feel like (football) they would add more than some of the other recent additions did/do. Elon was decent, but they were like the yankees of the socon. vmi is a dumpster fire that has burned out at this point.

JSU appears to bring a good crowd. Their facilities look good. They field a good team. I'm sure their academics aren't what Samford or Mercer bring, but I think a lot of that is bs anyway. I've known complete morons who attented wake forest, unc, davidson.

So why would FU and The Citadel look down their noses at JSU?

[NorthChuckSouth]

Clinton, SC doesn't provide anything media-market wise that Furman or Wofford does. GW is like 20 minutes away from Wofford, same thing. Charleston Southern doesn't offer much that the Citadel doesn't with Charleston either.

If all three of them were premier FCS programs, it would be worth the invite (kind of like what the Big 12 did with TCU a couple years back), but right now the only one of them that's made the playoffs is Chuck South, and the jury is still out over whether they can sustain success or if their success was the Chadwell show.

Ah okay I understand what you're saying.. even if they all were premier programs I just don't think a two subconference system would work in fcs football

[NorthChuckSouth]

Here's an article about the agreement between the Big South and ASUN

http://bigsouthsports.com/news/2016/9/12/FB_0912162601.aspx?path=football (http://bigsouthsports.com/news/2016/9/12/FB_0912162601.aspx?path=football)

[citdog]

No disrespect to anyone...but I feel like (football) they would add more than some of the other recent additions did/do. Elon was decent, but they were like the yankees of the socon. vmi is a dumpster fire that has burned out at this point.

JSU appears to bring a good crowd. Their facilities look good. They field a good team. I'm sure their academics aren't what Samford or Mercer bring, but I think a lot of that is bs anyway. I've known complete morons who attented wake forest, unc, davidson.

So why would FU and The Citadel look down their noses at JSU?

YOU and chatty are the outliers in the SoCon now. Don't look for another large public to come in EVER unless somebody leaves and probably not even THEN. You can take shots at vmi all you like but they have FAR more history in this league than western carolina EVER will.

[tenNesseeCat]

YOU and chatty are the outliers in the SoCon now. Don't look for another large public to come in EVER unless somebody leaves and probably not even THEN. You can take shots at vmi all you like but they have FAR more history in this league than western carolina EVER will.

Maybe...but that was a poor deflection of my points. I meant no disrespect.

Also, ETSU is a public school that may be larger than us.

[wcugrad95]

Campbell is an interesting program - they would seem to "fit" more with how the SoCon has been moving. We lose some big, public universities (App State and Georgia Southern), and with the football-playing schools the split between the bigger schools that we still have (Western, UTC, ETSU) and the smaller and/or private schools (Furman, Citadel, Wofford, VMI, Samford) would mean adding a program like Campbell really means the conference skews towards the smaller bias. While Mercer is a private school, and ideologically (at least the outside perception would say) they appear much more like a Furman or Wofford, I believe they have the 4th biggest enrollment and kind of sit "in between" those two ends of the spectrum. If I could wave a magic wand I would probably replace VMI. But I could also see all kinds of changes shaking out once the Power 5 decide what is best for them to print money and the rest of the conferences (FBS and FCS) have to scramble. That change will certainly impact FCS football. When that happens, I could see a SoCon that is made up entirely of NC, SC, and GA schools.

And I kind of agree with citdog on the number - 9 football-playing schools is good. That is 8 conference games, 1 "money" game, and then 2 games to either challenge yourself with another top FCS program, or an opportunity to play another geographically relevant rival OOC, or a chance to pick a couple of easy wins to help your win/loss total!

[wcugrad95]

YOU and chatty are the outliers in the SoCon now. Don't look for another large public to come in EVER unless somebody leaves and probably not even THEN. You can take shots at vmi all you like but they have FAR more history in this league than western carolina EVER will.

And regarding the history of the SoCon, originally it included lots of big, public universities including the likes of many "big boy" schools - Alabama, Auburn, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, South Carolina, etc. The conference basically started with what is now the core of the ACC and SEC. Over the years it certainly has started going in a different direction, but of all the member schools currently in the league Western is tied with UTC for the 3rd longest tenured school behind Citadel and VMI (who as we all know were out of the league for over a decade before rejoining in 2014). Western and UTC have now been a member of the SoCon for 41 straight years, so I would argue our vote should count as much as anybody's.

And yes - ETSU just joined back and I believe they are the largest football-playing school in the conference (nearly 15,000 students). UNCG is also in the conference for basketball, and I think they are approaching 20k students.

[citdog]

And regarding the history of the SoCon, originally it included lots of big, public universities including the likes of many "big boy" schools - Alabama, Auburn, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, South Carolina, etc. The conference basically started with what is now the core of the ACC and SEC. Over the years it certainly has started going in a different direction, but of all the member schools currently in the league Western is tied with UTC for the 3rd longest tenured school behind Citadel and VMI (who as we all know were out of the league for over a decade before rejoining in 2014). Western and UTC have now been a member of the SoCon for 41 straight years, so I would argue our vote should count as much as anybody's.


Well guess what......It DOESN'T...

you forgot furman

[cx500d]

Well guess what......It DOESN'T...

you forgot furman sucks

FYP

[wcugrad95]

I did miss Furman - they joined the same year Citadel did. So WCU and UTC are tied for 4th longest tenured of all the current members, and 3rd longest contiguous membership in the last 40 years behind Citadel and Furman.

[tenNesseeCat]

And I kind of agree with citdog on the number - 9 football-playing schools is good. That is 8 conference games, 1 "money" game, and then 2 games to either challenge yourself with another top FCS program, or an opportunity to play another geographically relevant rival OOC, or a chance to pick a couple of easy wins to help your win/loss total!

If it were 12 you could just play your division and rotate two in the other division. Could add JSU and two other state schools, and do a public/private split

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Yes - this should play very well with the Leadership of The Citadel & Virginia Military Institute...

https://media-beta.wsbtv.com/photo/2017/10/09/KneelingAnthem_1507591959655_9427033_ver1.0_640_36 0.jpg

Embarrassing.

Cheers for the cheerleaders that respected America.

[wcugrad95]

If it were 12 you could just play your division and rotate two in the other division. Could add JSU and two other state schools, and do a public/private split

At 12 teams and 2 divisions of 6, if you play your "side" that is only 5 games. So you would need to play 3 from the other "side" in order to not have to fill so many OOC games. I personally don't see any reason/benefit for an FCS conference to have a conference championship game because it would cost money rather than make money to put on. Having 9 and playing everybody seems to make more sense, and allows for set schedules.

But it is fun to talk about. So add Campbell to the small/private side, add JSU to the larger/public side. While JSU is public, I think they are about the same size as Mercer. Who else???

Larger schools: WCU/UTC/ETSU/JSU/Mercer/need 1 more and Mercer might prefer to be on the "other" side
Smaller schools: Wofford/Furman/VMI/Citadel/Campbell/Samford

Kennesaw State really doesn't fit all that well - as they are an ultra-large (comparatively-speaking) school with something like 35k students.

Again, I think staying at 9 is the right thing to do, and introducing a JSU or Campbell or anybody else should be as a replacement or the result of some massive down-stream fallout from the P5 screwing "college athletics" up even further.

[dgtw]

Campbell will join next season as per the A-Sun/Big South agreement.

Campbell was already a full member except for football, which is upgrading from the Pioneer League.

North Alabama will be an associate football member with everything else in the A-Sun. Kennesaw and Monmouth are also football only.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Catamount87]

Back when the SoCon expanded again I spoke to two ADs that I know. Both said basically the same thing, a) balance between public and private is important and b) Kennesaw State won't ever be in the SoCon. I got them to expand on that second point. Both said that it has to do with KSU's quiet desire to ultimately be FBS in football and the huge student base puts KSU at or will put KSU at a big advantage in overall athletic budget capabilities. This second point seemed to be a really big deal because if the SoCon admitted a school that had a disproportionately larger athletic budget then the impacts to the rest of the schools could be very bad.

[SCPALADIN]

I don't think you'd ever be able to have a conference championship game with the scheduling restrictions in the FCS. I believe it would be logistically impossible to add that 12th game every season.

[walliver]

Large conferences with divisions make no sense in FCS.
Other than TV contracting issues, divisions really don't make much sense in FBS either. Case in point - the ACC which has a good football division and a we-can't-wait-until-basketball division. Or the SEC with the big boy West and the not-so-hot East.
In the SoCon, I suspect most of the privates would want to play each other every year. At Wofford, for example, ticket sales would be down in a year where we didn't play either FU or El Cid at home. 9 is the right number for the SoCon. If FU or Mercer left for the CAA, the conference would likely go after Campbell or Jacksonville. If Chatty or Western left there are no obvious replacements, but an effort likely would be made to pick up an eastern OVC team such as Tennessee Tech.

The Big South, on the other hand, is like the Sun Belt of FCS. It is an entry level conference in football with schools that have nowhere else to go. Before joining the Belt, CCU approached both the SoCon and CAA and neither was interested. PC approached the SoCon when moving from D-I and was told they added nothing to the conference (Clinnon is in the same TV market as Furman, Western and Wofford). Monmouth would probably prefer a better geographic fit. UNA will be a geographic outlier and is likely to bolt to the OVC if offered a choice (especially if JSU leaves). CSU is in a geographic tight spot as neither the CAA or SoCon needs a second Charleston team - few of us miss the College of Knowledge. Gardner Webb, although private, doesn't fit in well with the existing privates. KSU is a better fit in G5 FBS.
The best possible outcome for the Big South is for Jacksonville and Stetson to move to scholarship football. This would create a fairly stable core of PC, CSU, Campbell, GWU, Jax, and Stetson. This would provide the 6 teams needed for a bid with the possibility of affiliate members to make scheduling easier.

[ST_Lawson]

I don't think you'd ever be able to have a conference championship game with the scheduling restrictions in the FCS. I believe it would be logistically impossible to add that 12th game every season.

A while back I outlined a scenario where they could do a conference championship game/weekend (at the time, discussing the Big Sky going to...idk...like 32 teams or whatever they're up to now) without having to figure out where to put a 12th game. You'd pretty much have to have even divisions for it to be fair, and it'd take a little creativity, but it could work, I think.

Essentially, the last weekend of the regular season is "Championship Saturday". Say you have East/West divisions, for example. That final weekend, whoever is #1 in the East plays whoever is #1 in the West. But then, you have the #2's play each other, the #3's play each other, #4's, #5's, etc...all the way down to the last place teams. You switch hosting duties every year between the divisions...East teams host this year, West teams host next year, etc. That way the schools that are hosting know that they'll be hosting well in advance, and the schools that are traveling know that they're traveling that last weekend. In some cases they won't know exactly who they're playing until the week before, but depending on how things play out, they may know a week or two earlier.

The winner of the #1's gets the conference championship, everyone else gets a end of season matchup against a team that is roughly at the same level as they are, so you might get a decent number of close, exciting games, even if you're dead last in the conference. They could also have a "Bragging Rights" trophy that lives in the league office, but is "awarded" to the division that wins the most games on "Championship Saturday". Also, the #2 teams get a chance to prove themselves against decent competition at the end to help increase the possibility of being awarded a playoff at-large bid.

For a conference of, say 12 teams divided into two divisions of 6 each, their schedule would be: 3 OOC games (FBS, FCS, DII...whatever the school's preference), 5 games against the other teams in their division, two games against someone from the other division (could be "rivalry" matchups, could be rotating, whatever), and then the final game of the season against the equally ranked team from the other division.

The only big downside that I can think of offhand is that every now and then you might end up with two teams playing each other twice in a season, like if the two #1 teams play each other as one of their two cross-divisional games and then end up playing each other in the 11th game. The more teams you have, the less likely this is though, and if you have 16 teams total (two divisions of 8 each), then the issue is eliminated, since you'd only play a cross-divisional game at the end of the regular season.

[wcugrad95]

Interesting and creative, but that sounds like it is more probable with FBS when the power 5 plus a few teams break off into the Power 4 and have something like 16-18 team conferences. In your scenario there would still be FCS teams who typically don't have staff or funds to turnaround and host a home game (and the other team plan travel) on as little as a week's notice. Without allowing a 12th game, a conference championship with multiple divisions seems too hard at the FCS level.

[ST_Lawson]

Interesting and creative, but that sounds like it is more probable with FBS when the power 5 plus a few teams break off into the Power 4 and have something like 16-18 team conferences. In your scenario there would still be FCS teams who typically don't have staff or funds to turnaround and host a home game (and the other team plan travel) on as little as a week's notice. Without allowing a 12th game, a conference championship with multiple divisions seems too hard at the FCS level.

Well, the host team would know that they're hosting a game that weekend WELL in advance...like...whenever the conference as a whole decides to do it. For example, if they decided to do it starting next year for example, and said that they'd start with the East division hosting, all the teams in the East division would know they're hosting a game on November 17th, 2018, and all the teams in the West division would know that they're hosting a game on November 16, 2019. They just wouldn't know which team they're hosting.

It's a little tougher for a visiting team, because they might not know exactly where they're headed until the previous week's games have finished up. Still, that's a full week to figure things out...it's no different than the playoffs. Plus, it'd be against teams that are more likely to be closer, easier to get to, and have more familiarity with than being sent all across the country to play teams they've never played before.

[kdinva]

vmi is a dumpster fire

VMI's problem is with the Admin, not the coaches or players. They send VMI teams to gunfights with knives...

2001: VMI's "leaders" ASSUMED that by moving to the Big South that winning would be automatic without the work and investments.......HA!!!

2013: VMI hired a new A.D.....and things ain't getting better.....he's lowballed Coaches salaries to the point that the Baseball Coach (VMI Grad), Basketball Coach, Swimming Coach (just this June) and just two weeks ago, the Wrestling Coach (season starts in 26 days) said bye-bye because they found better jobs with better support, facilities, way better $$$......plus he was too impatient with Sparky Woods and the FB program....(no offense to Coach Wach)...

[citdog]

VMI's problem is with the Admin, not the coaches or players. They send VMI teams to gunfights with knives...

2001: VMI's "leaders" ASSUMED that by moving to the Big South that winning would be automatic without the work and investments.......HA!!!

2013: VMI hired a new A.D.....and things ain't getting better.....he's lowballed Coaches salaries to the point that the Baseball Coach (VMI Grad), Basketball Coach, Swimming Coach (just this June) and just two weeks ago, the Wrestling Coach (season starts in 26 days) said bye-bye because they found better jobs with better support, facilities, way better $$$......plus he was too impatient with Sparky Woods and the FB program....(no offense to Coach Wach)...

Step 1. Start a Grad School so that 5 year men don't have to soldier in the Corps.

[kdinva]

Step 1. Start a Grad School so that 5 year men don't have to soldier in the Corps.

Good idea, but not enough overall interest from non-VMI students to pursue.

Grads have been arguing with the BOV for years (but not arguing with closed checkbooks.....which would work) to have all 5th year cadets NOT TAKE A MINIMUM of 12 credit hours per semester (NCAA calls for six), be excused from inspections & parades (they have done enough of those the first four years), and just behave themselves.....VMI football alone loses about five to six 5th year players each Summer because of this, Al Cobb included....

[DFW HOYA]

The best possible outcome for the Big South is for Jacksonville and Stetson to move to scholarship football. This would create a fairly stable core of PC, CSU, Campbell, GWU, Jax, and Stetson. This would provide the 6 teams needed for a bid with the possibility of affiliate members to make scheduling easier.

Entirely plausible if the Pioneer consolidates to its pre-expansion core, with Morehead as its outlier: San Diego, Dayton, Butler, Valpo, Marist, and Davidson.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

VMI's problem is with the Admin, not the coaches or players. They send VMI teams to gunfights with knives...

2001: VMI's "leaders" ASSUMED that by moving to the Big South that winning would be automatic without the work and investments.......HA!!!

2013: VMI hired a new A.D.....and things ain't getting better.....he's lowballed Coaches salaries to the point that the Baseball Coach (VMI Grad), Basketball Coach, Swimming Coach (just this June) and just two weeks ago, the Wrestling Coach (season starts in 26 days) said bye-bye because they found better jobs with better support, facilities, way better $$$......plus he was too impatient with Sparky Woods and the FB program....(no offense to Coach Wach)...

I also noticed that VMI recently started a women's water polo team. No offense to the sport or to the athletes on that team but you would think VMI would look at starting more women's teams that the SoCon sponsors (basketball, volleyball, softball, tennis, golf). To my knowledge, The Citadel and VMI are the only D1 schools that do not have a women's basketball team.

[walliver]

I also noticed that VMI recently started a women's water polo team. No offense to the sport or to the athletes on that team but you would think VMI would look at starting more women's teams that the SoCon sponsors (basketball, volleyball, softball, tennis, golf). To my knowledge, The Citadel and VMI are the only D1 schools that do not have a women's basketball team.

As a geographic outlier in the SoCon, it may be to VMI's economic advantage to participate in non-SoCon sports where geographically favorable leagues exist.

[kdinva]

I also noticed that VMI recently started a women's water polo team. No offense to the sport or to the athletes on that team but you would think VMI would look at starting more women's teams that the SoCon sponsors (basketball, volleyball, softball, tennis, golf). To my knowledge, The Citadel and VMI are the only D1 schools that do not have a women's basketball team.

VMI is at the NCAA D-1 minimum for women's sports (seven).... VMI has only about 200-215 ladies in the school.....versus ETSU's 3,500+......

Water Polo has about 5 players who also swim/dive.....and Water Polo, in its fifth season, made the MAAC championship match....

AND, this is funny to me. the SoCon sponsors Rifle now......the only three participating members are the three smallest schools: VMI, The Citadel, Wofford......why not the others? Rifle is perfect for the "heritage" of the SoCon membership.....

My last post in this "Big South" thread....

[ASU33]

North Alabama is a solid addition but they're struggling this year. I think they hired the loyal assistant instead of going out and getting the best coach for the job. We'll se how long the current coach can hang on there,

[FUBeAR]

VMI is at the NCAA D-1 minimum for women's sports (seven).... VMI has only about 200-215 ladies in the school.....versus ETSU's 3,500+......

Water Polo has about 5 players who also swim/dive.....and Water Polo, in its fifth season, made the MAAC championship match....

AND, this is funny to me. the SoCon sponsors Rifle now......the only three participating members are the three smallest schools: VMI, The Citadel, Wofford......why not the others? Rifle is perfect for the "heritage" of the SoCon membership.....

My last post in this "Big South" thread....

Apparently Mercer used to have Rifle. I'm not sure if it was intercollegiate or not, but when they started Football in 2012, the first Coaches' Offices were in the 'old' Rifle Range in the basement of the University Center. Maybe they'll bring it back....but only if ALL schools agree to using Instant Replay. ;)

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

VMI is at the NCAA D-1 minimum for women's sports (seven).... VMI has only about 200-215 ladies in the school.....versus ETSU's 3,500+......


I see your point about the female student population at your school compared to ETSU.



Water Polo has about 5 players who also swim/dive.....and Water Polo, in its fifth season, made the MAAC championship match....



I did not know that. Bravo! ETSU has a women's triathlon team, I don't know if adding one would be worth something to VMI.



AND, this is funny to me. the SoCon sponsors Rifle now......the only three participating members are the three smallest schools: VMI, The Citadel, Wofford......why not the others? Rifle is perfect for the "heritage" of the SoCon membership.....



ETSU used to have rifle as well back in the day. It would nice if they brought it back.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Embarrassing.

Cheers for the cheerleaders that respected America.

Keep the political BS off the FCS board in the future. This is not only for you, it is for everyone, you were just the last post to grab on the matter.

[Go...gate]

VMI's problem is with the Admin, not the coaches or players. They send VMI teams to gunfights with knives...

2001: VMI's "leaders" ASSUMED that by moving to the Big South that winning would be automatic without the work and investments.......HA!!!

2013: VMI hired a new A.D.....and things ain't getting better.....he's lowballed Coaches salaries to the point that the Baseball Coach (VMI Grad), Basketball Coach, Swimming Coach (just this June) and just two weeks ago, the Wrestling Coach (season starts in 26 days) said bye-bye because they found better jobs with better support, facilities, way better $$$......plus he was too impatient with Sparky Woods and the FB program....(no offense to Coach Wach)...

VMI should join the Patriot League. That was a possibility at one time. Annapolis and West Point liked the idea. We'll swap you even up for Loyola (MD).

[KPSUL]

I also noticed that VMI recently started a women's water polo team. No offense to the sport or to the athletes on that team but you would think VMI would look at starting more women's teams that the SoCon sponsors (basketball, volleyball, softball, tennis, golf). To my knowledge, The Citadel and VMI are the only D1 schools that do not have a women's basketball team.

They don't make female bell hop outfits in size extra tall.

[fmftballmgr]

If there's any shakeups happening in the SoCon please get our athletic department on the phone.

PLEASE.

I figured that you all would want to make the jump to FBS football instead.

[JSUSoutherner]

I figured that you all would want to make the jump to FBS football instead.

Our only option is the sunbelt and that ain't happening.

[walliver]

Our only option is the sunbelt and that ain't happening.

Just claim you're being discriminated against because of your poultry beliefs and join Liberty as an independent. You can play basketball style home-and-home series each year with Liberty and NMSU.

In fact, you could play Liberty 6 times a year making it easy for both schools to get their required number of FBS home games.

[fmftballmgr]

Just wondering why you want out of the OVC?

[JSUSoutherner]

Just claim you're being discriminated against because of your poultry beliefs and join Liberty as an independent. You can play basketball style home-and-home series each year with Liberty and NMSU.

In fact, you could play Liberty 6 times a year making it easy for both schools to get their required number of FBS home games.
Our school isn't loaded.


Just wondering why you want out of the OVC?
Surely you jest.

[dgtw]

Just wondering why you want out of the OVC?

1. The competition is weak.
2. The other schools are a long way from us. Joining the SoCon would give us two short road trips. That helps our fans travel and sells more tickets to opposing fans.
3. Two schools don't sponsor football and another is in the Pioneer League. The SoCon does have one non-football member, but that's better than what we have now.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tenNesseeCat]

what if the socon just added jsu and left the big south alone. That would give the socon 10 teams. just enough to have a $ and ooc game every year, and 1 extra every year they can have 12 games.

[citdog]

what if the socon just added jsu and left the big south alone. That would give the socon 10 teams. just enough to have a $ and ooc game every year, and 1 extra every year they can have 12 games.

NOPE. If you want jsu then PLEASE pack your truck up and move to the ovc.

wcu movin' on...


https://activerain-store.s3.amazonaws.com/image_store/uploads/1/7/8/4/1/ar131400583314871.jpg

[tenNesseeCat]

NOPE. If you want jsu then PLEASE pack your truck up and move to the ovc.

wcu movin' on...


https://activerain-store.s3.amazonaws.com/image_store/uploads/1/7/8/4/1/ar131400583314871.jpg

hahaha...I figured that would get a rise out of you.

I could use those ramps tied on the side there.

[Schism55]

That pic is glorious Cit xlolx

[JSUSoutherner]

That pic is glorious Cit xlolx

It's from when he moved out to Montana.

[woffordgrad94]

I really don’t much care about the ultimate fate of the Big South. Just please do not EVER put Presbyterian College from podunk Clinnon in the SoCon. PC will never be able to piss with the BIG dogs, so they best stay on the porch. What the hell is a Blue Hose anyway?

[Reign of Terrier]

Cit Dog is recycling old memes from smack against App State fans

[fmftballmgr]

1. The competition is weak.
2. The other schools are a long way from us. Joining the SoCon would give us two short road trips. That helps our fans travel and sells more tickets to opposing fans.
3. Two schools don't sponsor football and another is in the Pioneer League. The SoCon does have one non-football member, but that's better than what we have now.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

works for me.. but I thought it would be that the commissioner really has no vision for the conference and favors the schools from TN


Murray was courted by the MVC for basketball but right now I don't think I want any of the MVFC. We would come in as a bottom half team. (maybe even a bottom half of the bottom half teams) And that will increase our travel a whole lot

[citdog]

Cit Dog is recycling old memes from smack against App State fans

Nope. Nice try though. If I was doing that I would have posted 52-28...

[dgtw]

works for me.. but I thought it would be that the commissioner really has no vision for the conference and favors the schools from TN

I hear that as well, but I'm not privy to the conference office so I don't know if there is a Tennessee bias. As for vision, I don't really think there is one. What exactly was the compelling reason to take SIUE but reject UNA?



Murray was courted by the MVC for basketball but right now I don't think I want any of the MVFC. We would come in as a bottom half team. (maybe even a bottom half of the bottom half teams) And that will increase our travel a whole lot

Travel would really suck for you there and you'd get killed in the MVFC.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Congrats on a very thorough Socon hijack of a BigSouth thread. The Patriot League is losing its touch all over the place.

[fmftballmgr]

[QUOTE=dgtw;2546075]I hear that as well, but I'm not privy to the conference office so I don't know if there is a Tennessee bias. As for vision, I don't really think there is one. What exactly was the compelling reason to take SIUE but reject UNA?


trying to cash in on the St. Louis market. I would not have took them because they don't have football, the same reason I would not have accepted belmont either

[Go...gate]

Congrats on a very thorough Socon hijack of a BigSouth thread. The Patriot League is losing its touch all over the place.

The tectonic plates are truly shifting.....

[citdog]

The tectonic plates are truly shifting.....


What could german tablesettings possibly have to do with anything?









;)

[kalm]

What could german tablesettings possibly have to do with anything?









;)

Nice one, you titwillow.

[Go...gate]

Wondering how long Monmouth will remain as the northern outpost in the conference.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Wondering how long Monmouth will remain as the northern outpost in the conference.

Where could Monmouth go? Where would Monmouth want to go?

[Go...gate]

Where could Monmouth go? Where would Monmouth want to go?

Don't know. A lot might depend on who else joins the Big South in the next few years.

[The Cats]

Where could Monmouth go? Where would Monmouth want to go?


NEC

[UNHWildcat18]

NEC

They should go to the PL but the fat old men might think the IVY league will give them a dirty look and laugh if a team joins for football that isn't
on 'the same level in terms of academics"

[citdog]

They should go to the PL but the fat old men might think the IVY league will give them a dirty look and laugh if a team joins for football that isn't
on 'the same level in terms of academics"

That's right. Nobody nuzzles schmeckles like the patsy nuzzles the ivy...

[dgtw]

Wondering how long Monmouth will remain as the northern outpost in the conference.

Maine will be joining the Big South so they'll have a travel partner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PaladinNation]

The Big South had a great run recently…
that success has in a way created this uncertainty and the loss of stature.

Obviously having Coastal move up was a big hit, next Liberty.
Chuck South was raided, as a Furman fan, thank you.

So, you guys are regrouping and it's up to the programs to retool, keep scheduling great OOC games and win some of them.


Concerning the SoCon and Big South…
Furman and the Citadel are connected at the hip. That's a locked voting block.
Next, add Wofford and VMI. Yep, they're the small school block, but that's not the main thing for them.
They will not admit another school that has dramatically lower admission and academic standards for athletes.
I guess you could through Mercer and Samford in there too.

I think the question is will Furman and the Citadel every leave the SoCon? That would create havoc for both conferences.
Furman's student base and student recruiting base is moving farther up the east coast and that will continue.
Will Furman ever leave the SoCon for the CAA? The old guard says no, but FU Prez Dr. Davis is a business person, I don't see the current FU admin and BOD being conservative if the opportunity arises to open up the entire east coast as a recruiting base of tuition-paying students. Furman needs students that can pay close to the full tuition (50k+).

[Sandlapper Spike]

I don't think Furman or The Citadel would leave the SoCon unless the league membership dramatically changed. That is extremely unlikely, since as you pointed out there is already a strong bloc of schools in the conference that would prevent such a shift.

The current conference makeup is close to ideal for Furman. I see no particular reason why the school would want to join the CAA.

[kperk014]

North Alabama is a solid addition but they're struggling this year. I think they hired the loyal assistant instead of going out and getting the best coach for the job. We'll se how long the current coach can hang on there,

Yeah, it's been a rough season. It was going to be a rebuilding year for the Lions but with a 6-5 sophomore QB with 4.5 speed and a pretty good recruiting class, we had a shot at a pretty good season and then right off the bat the QB is out for the season. That has been followed by almost the entire offensive line being sidelined along with the top two running backs. Even with that they made the 2,000+ mile trip to the Great Northwest and almost beat Central Washington despite 13 penalties for 140 yards and yet more injuries. The Lions returned only 6 starters total from last year's D2 runner up team. With 60 something new players and all the mistakes and injuries they just haven't jelled. They still may play the spoiler because there is a lot of talent still available if they put it together once in a while.

Not making the playoffs for the first time since 2012 may be a good thing heading into D1. Making those deep runs shrinks recruiting time, especially in D2 where you don't have large coaching staffs. This should allow Willis and his assistants to finally get a jump on recruiting instead of lagging behind.

[NorthChuckSouth]

http://www.clintonchronicle.com/sports/petition-delay-action-pc-football

Well this can't be good for the Big South.......



or can it? They've never won the conference.

I've heard they've thought about dropping to D2 but Pioneer with no scholarships? I know the school only has like 900 undergrad students (without the pharmacy school) so maybe tuition will help with funding for the school?

[PantherRob82]

Would they be any worse staying in the Big sourh with no scholarships?

[Reign of Terrier]

It's bad for the Big South in terms of being an AQ conference, but not necessarily bad from a competition standpoint.

Poor PC. It sounds conceded from a Wofford fan to say they wanted to be like Wofford, but they did and some key differences held/hold them back from having a strong transition to D1.

Wofford had Mike Ayers (10th year coach at the time of transition) and the boostership of Jerry Richardson (and others) to get the program on its feet. Spartanburg, as meh as it is, it's no different from the dozens of other obscure towns with FCS teams, while Clinton is kind of a desert. PC is uniquely disadvantaged to be successful at FCS and had wofford not had Ayers/Richardson at the outset we'd be in a similar situation.

[NorthChuckSouth]

It's bad for the Big South in terms of being an AQ conference, but not necessarily bad from a competition standpoint.

Poor PC. It sounds conceded from a Wofford fan to say they wanted to be like Wofford, but they did and some key differences held/hold them back from having a strong transition to D1.

Wofford had Mike Ayers (10th year coach at the time of transition) and the boostership of Jerry Richardson (and others) to get the program on its feet. Spartanburg, as meh as it is, it's no different from the dozens of other obscure towns with FCS teams, while Clinton is kind of a desert. PC is uniquely disadvantaged to be successful at FCS and had wofford not had Ayers/Richardson at the outset we'd be in a similar situation.

Keep them in until UNA comes in I guess would be the best option for the big south

[walliver]

I've heard from several sources that PC has been in financial difficulties as an institution. If those rumors are true, then supporting 63 scholarships is a burden they can't afford. In fact, non-scholarship football can be somewhat profitable as athletes will pay to play. Moving to the Pioneer would also allow them to play Davidson, Jacksonville, and Stetson instead of Monmouth, Kennesaw State, and UNA.

PC always seemed to be playing catch-up after Wofford, Elon, and Gardner Webb moved up, but never seemed to have the resources to be successful. Although Jerry Richardson's help has been monumental, Wofford had other well-off donors, for both athletic and academic causes, who have remained low-key.

Hopefully, the Big South would allow PC to stay as the Big South is really a non-football conference at heart. If not, the A-Sun is always looking for new members.

[wcugrad95]

Question: It is not just the 63 football scholarships - it is 126 with Title IX, right? So you lose 63 other students who won't be there on a scholarship for their sports, but you gain back "x" number of paying students who are now there playing non-scholarship football. That is awful for a relatively large percentage of students at a very small school, but sometimes you have to make painful and tough business and institutional decisions.

Aren't UNA and Campbell coming into the conference? Liberty is leaving, so if PC goes they are already adding 2 and will be the same numbers-wise at least. I have seen some people speculate that Kennesaw with their location and student size would be looking at FBS at some point. With Monmouth such a geographical outlier, PC staying or leaving might not make the ultimate difference in the league's future. But any school making this decision is big news, and especially so in a football league with so few teams.

[NorthChuckSouth]

Question: It is not just the 63 football scholarships - it is 126 with Title IX, right? So you lose 63 other students who won't be there on a scholarship for their sports, but you gain back "x" number of paying students who are now there playing non-scholarship football. That is awful for a relatively large percentage of students at a very small school, but sometimes you have to make painful and tough business and institutional decisions.

Aren't UNA and Campbell coming into the conference? Liberty is leaving, so if PC goes they are already adding 2 and will be the same numbers-wise at least. I have seen some people speculate that Kennesaw with their location and student size would be looking at FBS at some point. With Monmouth such a geographical outlier, PC staying or leaving might not make the ultimate difference in the league's future. But any school making this decision is big news, and especially so in a football league with so few teams.

Jacksonville and Stetson have the option to come into the Big South if they ever want to go into scholarship football.. I think it might be time for Kyle Kallander to start convincing them to make that decision.

If they become scholarship football and PC leaves, the Big South will be
CSU
GWU
Kennesaw St
Monmouth
Campbell
Jacksonville
Stetson
UNA

Wouldn't be the strongest of conferences but an 8 team league is much better than a 5 or 6..

[dgtw]

Anybody in the A-Sun that starts scholarship football can be in the Big South.

If PC leaves, they will be back to six members once UNA and Campbell join. But three of them would be associate members in football. Not much stability there.

I think Kennesaw would be looking to move up. If Georgia State moves to C-USA, I suspect the Sun Belt would want to stay in the Atlanta market. Monmouth would probably be glad to get into a northeast-based league and UNA would take an OVC spot if offered.