Patriot League Pick 'em - Week 7

[carney2]

It just gets curiouser and curiouser:

Two teams are playing with fake defenses.
Three teams have a fake offense.
Two teams are a holy mess.
The preseason worst continues to be first.
And, as we speak, the Patriot League football trophy is being crated for shipment to Monmouth.

But the calendar moves on and we enter the second half of the season where, eventually, we sill mercifully flush this toilet for the final time. Patriot League coaches can then move on to what they do best – passing out D-1 football scholarships to D-3 quality players.

LAFAYETTE @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ COLGATE
GEORGETOWN @ LEHIGH
HOLY CROSS @ Yale
BUCKNELL @ Cornell

Game of the Week: Fordham @ Colgate. No, wait, that pick is from my notes back in August. Oh well, what possible difference can it make for this bunch.

[van]

looks like a couple PL teams might get wins this weekend

[bonarae]

Harvard
Colgate
Lehigh
Yale
Cornell

[cx500d]

LAFAYETTE
COLGATE
LEHIGH
HOLY CROSS
Cornell

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lafayette/Harvard is the game of the week because it is a fascinating study in contrasts. Is Harvard that bad? Is Lafayette for real? It will be a revealing game one way or another.

I think I'm already going to pick a Bucknell win over Cornell specifically because it makes no sense.

[Gangtackle11]

Lafayette/Harvard is the game of the week because it is a fascinating study in contrasts. Is Harvard that bad? Is Lafayette for real? It will be a revealing game one way or another.

I think I'm already going to pick a Bucknell win over Cornell specifically because it makes no sense.

7-25 PL OOC record certainly supports your final sentence.xpeacexxpeacex

[carney2]

LAFAYETTE @ Harvard – A team with no offense faces an Ivy enigma. The Pards have been blown out by every OOC foe so far. Why would it stop here?

FORDHAM @ COLGATE – The Rams have proven that all of that offensive fire power is a myth. The ‘gate D should be enough in this one.

GEORGETOWN @ LEHIGH – The Squawkineers are finally picking on someone their own size. I’m betting that even their non-D looks credible in this one.

HOLY CROSS @ Yale It won’t matter which of the Jekyll & Hyde ‘saders show up for this one.

BUCKNELL @ Cornell – Flipped a coin.

[Go...gate]

7-25 PL OOC record certainly supports your final sentence.xpeacexxpeacex

Upgrading the OOC and abandonment of the PL by the Ivy was bound to produce this.

[RichH2]

Upgrading the OOC and abandonment of the PL by the Ivy was bound to produce this.

Probably to a certain extent but we didnt do too well vs Ivies this year either. :)
Given current landscape of Northeast football tougher OOCs a foregone conclusion. NEC teams are no longer cupcakes. Monmouth a full schollie Big South. Add in a selection of FBS games and it will be a while before PL adjusts .

[KillaBee]

Guess what?I'm taking the Leopards!!!!

[carney2]

Guess what?I'm taking the Leopards!!!!

BREAK UP THE LEOPARDS! is the cry around the Patriot League. xdrunkyx

[carney2]

The CarneyVegas odds on winning the Patsy this year:

Lehigh 4:1
Colgate 10:1
Holy Cross 12:1
Lafayette 20:1
Bucknell 40:1
Fordham 50:1
Georgetown 200:1

[Neighbor2]

[QUOTE=carney2;2544085]The CarneyVegas odds on winning the Patsy this year:

Lehigh 4:1
Colgate 10:1
Holy Cross 12:1
Lafayette 20:1
Bucknell 40:1
Fordham 50:1


Right now, such as they are, Lehigh DOES look like the best bet to win the league. That offense can be lethal, as the talent is there. Should Lehigh win the title, I expect them to be crushed by their playoff opponent. The Lehigh defense is weak on many different levels. The defensive coaching staff created this empty cupboard and I don't expect that group to know how to fix it. The Head Coach won't be of any help. He looks and sounds lost this year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The CarneyVegas odds on winning the Patsy this year:

Lehigh 4:1
Colgate 10:1
Holy Cross 12:1
Lafayette 20:1
Bucknell 40:1
Fordham 50:1
Georgetown 200:1

Lehigh, Lafayette, G'Town's best scenario is sweep all the conference games and go undefeated

Bucknell, Fordham, Cross best scenario is to sweep the remaining games and enter a head-to-head with a 1 loss Lehigh and win the tiebreaker

Colgate's best scenario is Lehigh losing twice and entering 1st place tie with 1 loss

Of all of these Colgate is the most behind the 8 ball but it's not hard to see Lehigh lose two games and see Colgate right back in it

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Lehigh, Lafayette, G'Town's best scenario is sweep all the conference games and go undefeated

Bucknell, Fordham, Cross best scenario is to sweep the remaining games and enter a head-to-head with a 1 loss Lehigh and win the tiebreaker

Colgate's best scenario is Lehigh losing twice and entering 1st place tie with 1 loss



Of all of these Colgate is the most behind the 8 ball but it's not hard to see Lehigh lose two games and see Colgate right back in it

The best scenario for any team is to get the Back Judge from the Colgate-Lehigh game permanently in their pocket. And to make sure that he gets assigned to all of your games.

[hawkineer]

The best scenario for any team is to get the Back Judge from the Colgate-Lehigh game permanently in their pocket. And to make sura that he gets assigned to all of your games.

Clearly, Lehigh's back judge endowment fund is much better than Colgate's. We not pay our coaches, but...xrolleyesx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Clearly, Lehigh's back judge endowment fund is much better than Colgate's. We not pay our coaches, but...xrolleyesx

Pretty sure now we know why we underpay our assistant coaches - "other gameday expenses". xlolx

More seriously, Lehigh made the plays at the end of the game and Colgate didn't. I don't think anyone disagrees that the officiating was rough on the Raiders. But in the end, Lehigh did make the plays, and not all of the calls were bad. Colgate made some costly mistakes.

[ngineer]

I am goin' with the homies this weekend.

Spotted Pussies run into the Johnnies and still can't run. Haavaaard, 30-14
Fordham is a mess and Edmonds can't be near 100%. Colgate smarting from last week's stunner on the tundra, will protect the turf this week, 31-17.
Hoyas offense will be coming into Goodman salivating and while they will get some mojo going, it won't compare to the high octane LU-O. Lehigh 49-27.
The Crusaders will continue their quest but the Grail will not be found in New Haven. Eli 45-31.
In the meeting of the Nells, Bucky can't find the beaver, i.e. nor score for U! Big Red 10-3.

[RichH2]

The best scenario for any team is to get the Back Judge from the Colgate-Lehigh game permanently in their pocket. And to make sure that he gets assigned to all of your games.

Think there is an auction scheduled for next week. :)

[Bogus Megapardus]

I think I'm already going to pick a Bucknell win over Cornell specifically because it makes no sense.

Heh. Patriot League pick'em now is akin to deciphering the characters in an absurdist David Lynch dream-logic movie.

[RichH2]

Heh. Patriot League pick'em now is akin to deciphering the characters in an absurdist David Lynch dream-logic movie.
I was thinking Eraserhead might work. :)

[Bill]

Heh. Patriot League pick'em now is akin to deciphering the characters in an absurdist David Lynch dream-logic movie.

Does this count?
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26268&stc=1

[TheValleyRaider]

Another weekend away, and another set of curious outcomes. I have a sneaking suspicion we'll all be rather familiar with PL tiebreaking procedures before this season is out. Or at least, as a Colgate fan, I hope so...

2-2 last week, 23-13 on the season

Lafayette at Harvard Lafayette Under normal circumstances this pick would be easy. But the Leopards have 2 straight wins under their belts, while the Crimson have already taken losses to Rhode Island and Cornell. What the heck, let's ride this wave.

Fordham at Colgate Colgate Sounds like a heartbreaker in Hamilton. The season, though, is far from over, and there is still plenty for the Raiders to play for if they can bounce back mentally. Speaking of bouncing, does Fordham have any rebound in them? Do the Rams have something that resembles a renaissance to break Raider hearts again? The last 2 contests have been one-score games, and I fear that may be coming again.

Georgetown at Lehigh Lehigh The Hawks can score, but have trouble defending. The Hoyas are decent defensively, but cannot seem to buy any points. I suspect (and hope) that Lehigh drops a game or two in the League this year, but I doubt it's this one.

Holy Cross at Yale Yale Have the wheels come off in Worcester? How crazy does that win over UNH seem following each subsequent loss? Yale is solid, and I think I need to see the Crusaders actually bounce back for a win before I start picking them again.

Bucknell at Cornell Cornell This pains me, but with Big Red coming off a win against Harvard, they're probably the hot hands here. The Bison feel a little too quiet so far this season, so they can maybe steal this one, but I want to see it happen first. No, really, I would enjoy seeing it happen.

[RichH2]

Well mot much to add. Just want us off page 2. :)

[Ivytalk]

I am goin' with the homies this weekend.

Spotted Pussies run into the Johnnies and still can't run. Haavaaard, 30-14
Fordham is a mess and Edmonds can't be near 100%. Colgate smarting from last week's stunner on the tundra, will protect the turf this week, 31-17.
Hoyas offense will be coming into Goodman salivating and while they will get some mojo going, it won't compare to the high octane LU-O. Lehigh 49-27.
The Crusaders will continue their quest but the Grail will not be found in New Haven. Eli 45-31.
In the meeting of the Nells, Bucky can't find the beaver, i.e. nor score for U! Big Red 10-3.
Agreed. Home team sweep.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown at Lehigh Lehigh The Hawks can score, but have trouble defending. The Hoyas are decent defensively, but cannot seem to buy any points. I suspect (and hope) that Lehigh drops a game or two in the League this year, but I doubt it's this one.

One is an accident, two is a trend, three is a problem. Sixteen is, well...

Honest question: Georgetown has consistently lacked offensive talent, so much so that no PL recruit (save a punt returner) has ever been selected PL 1st team all-offense from Georgetown. This season's Hoyas have been outscored a combined 102-15 by halftime this season...and that's a bad number, in that the Hoyas have lost 41 of its last 46 when giving up more than 14 points to an opponent.

The defense is capable and more often that not in the top 3 or 4 in the league. Why can't Georgetown recruit offensive talent?

[Remise]

One is an accident, two is a trend, three is a problem. Sixteen is, well...

The defense is capable and more often that not in the top 3 or 4 in the league. Why can't Georgetown recruit offensive talent?

I have an idea: Why not have Georgetown's defense merge with Lehigh's offense? Then the league would have at least one decent team.

[Sader87]

One is an accident, two is a trend, three is a problem. Sixteen is, well...

Honest question: Georgetown has consistently lacked offensive talent, so much so that no PL recruit (save a punt returner) has ever been selected PL 1st team all-offense from Georgetown. This season's Hoyas have been outscored a combined 102-15 by halftime this season...and that's a bad number, in that the Hoyas have lost 41 of its last 46 when giving up more than 14 points to an opponent.

The defense is capable and more often that not in the top 3 or 4 in the league. Why can't Georgetown recruit offensive talent?

My guess? The GTown D has probably been relatively well coached over the years mitigating the need somewhat for outstanding raw talent. Offensively, while a well coached team can be successful (collectively or individually), I think you need the outstanding raw talent somewhat to be successful.....it also takes the offensive unit to work more cohesively, so you need a good OL, a good QB, maybe a decent back and some good receivers....something GTown probably really hasn't had in the PL due to not having the overall offensive talent the other schools have had.

Just my .02

[Gater]

Here is my one cent:
When a team has a good defense people equate it with good coaching. Bucknell and Georgetown always have good defenses and lose more than they win. People typically think highly of their head coaches.
Head coaches of teams that score a lot of points and lose more than they win are rarely considered to be good head coaches.

[RichH2]

One is an accident, two is a trend, three is a problem. Sixteen is, well...

Honest question: Georgetown has consistently lacked offensive talent, so much so that no PL recruit (save a punt returner) has ever been selected PL 1st team all-offense from Georgetown. This season's Hoyas have been outscored a combined 102-15 by halftime this season...and that's a bad number, in that the Hoyas have lost 41 of its last 46 when giving up more than 14 points to an opponent.

The defense is capable and more often that not in the top 3 or 4 in the league. Why can't Georgetown recruit offensive talent?
Defensive minded HCs likely to put best athletes there rather than on O. That said over the years Hoyas have usually had pretty good skills players. The deficit was in the lines particularly the OL. I note also that Hoyas have had some very good squads but with absolutely no depth. They would compete quite well until the mid 3rd when players started to fade. Depth is still a big issue for you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Georgetown has consistently lacked offensive talent, so much so that no PL recruit (save a punt returner) has ever been selected PL 1st team all-offense from Georgetown. This season's Hoyas have been outscored a combined 102-15 by halftime this season...and that's a bad number, in that the Hoyas have lost 41 of its last 46 when giving up more than 14 points to an opponent.

The defense is capable and more often that not in the top 3 or 4 in the league. Why can't Georgetown recruit offensive talent?

The parallel I see that the Hoyas might want to emulate in this area is Princeton. When Bob Surace came to Princeton in 2010, he came to town with a hotshot OC and a very specific articulation and plan on what he wanted to do offensively (and defensively) at Princeton. The OC, James Perry set up a "fast break" offense (their words) that increased the number of plays they were going to do, and Princeton and Surace undertook a long-term effort to change the offense football culture of the school. The prior head coach, Roger Hughes, played a ball-control, methodical, dissecting offense that wasn't flashy, but Princeton went right ahead and signaled to athletes what they wanted to do, and then recruited the guys to fit the system they wanted to do.

To a degree that's what's happened at Lehigh now for a long time. Generationally they are seen as a school that grooms FCS QBs and great FCS receivers. But Princeton had to develop that from the ground up.

Princeton isn't Georgetown - institutionally they can offer recruits financial aid that is second to none, etc. But I think their main blueprint is something that Georgetown could follow.

[Pards Rule]

Here is my one cent:
When a team has a good defense people equate it with good coaching. Bucknell and Georgetown always have good defenses and lose more than they win. People typically think highly of their head coaches.
Head coaches of teams that score a lot of points and lose more than they win are rarely considered to be good head coaches.

Thats why John Garrett of the Pards cherrypicked GU DC Luke Thompson to join him this year in Easton. PA

[DFW HOYA]

In 17 PL seasons, Georgetown has had six different offensive coordinators (Tim Breslin, Elliot Uzelac, Jim Miceli, Dave Patenaude, Vinny Marino, Mike Neuberger), each with different approaches and each with varying levels of experience--Breslin was a career assistant at GU, Uzelac was a former head coach at Navy and Western Michigan, Miceli was a former head coach at Bryant, Patenaude and Marino were both Ivy OC's, while Neuberger was an assistant at Dayton where they averaged 300 yards a game in passing and were sixth nationally in scoring at 38.8 points per game.

With the possible exception of Dave Patenaude in 2011, none succeeded.

All Games:
Breslin: 16.6
Uzelac: 16.3
Miceli: 12.3
Patenaude: 23.0
Marino: 19.9
Neuberger: 16.0

PL Games Only:
Breslin: 13.6
Uzelac: 14.7
Miceli: 10.9
Patenaude: 19.8
Marino: 18.5
Neuberger: 15.3

After five games in 2017, Georgetown averages 14.5 points per game, 110th nationally. Its opponents average 20.2 points...by halftime.

[Go Green]

Why can't Georgetown recruit offensive talent?

They assumed Kehoe Field was the practice field and said "F--- THAT!" is my guess. :)

[ngineer]

My guess? The GTown D has probably been relatively well coached over the years mitigating the need somewhat for outstanding raw talent. Offensively, while a well coached team can be successful (collectively or individually), I think you need the outstanding raw talent somewhat to be successful.....it also takes the offensive unit to work more cohesively, so you need a good OL, a good QB, maybe a decent back and some good receivers....something GTown probably really hasn't had in the PL due to not having the overall offensive talent the other schools have had.

Just my .02

Good points. It does take longer for an O to gel. More coordination is needed among the skill people and the muscle. Lots of moving parts that need to feel comfortable with each other. D is a different animal. It is usually 'reactive' to the opposition, so in more need of talent with strength and quickness and the ability to read the opposition. Identifying the proper talent for each side of the ball is critical.

[crusader11]

Dave Patenaude is an excellent football mind. Too bad Joe Moglia made his stay at Georgetown short-lived.

[Gangtackle11]

LAFAYETTE @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ COLGATE
GEORGETOWN @ LEHIGH
HOLY CROSS @ Yale
BUCKNELL @ Cornell


Last Week:2-2 Season: 22-14

[van]

LAFAYETTE @ Harvard, Johnny is having a bad year, but at home if they just defend the air they should be able to get by a surprising Leopard

FORDHAM @ COLGATE, unless Chase Edmunds suddenly appears this one goes to the home team

GEORGETOWN @ LEHIGH, gutty win at Gate give home team some confidence this week and holds the not so mighty Hoya O to less than 30 points

HOLY CROSS @ Yale, Eli is pretty strong this year and at home against an erratic Crusader team

BUCKNELL @ Cornell, figures to be low scoring and close, could go either way but giving home team the nod with little conviction

mediocre 20-16 on the year

[Bluefish845]

LAFAYETTE @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ COLGATE
GEORGETOWN @ LEHIGH
HOLY CROSS @ Yale
BUCKNELL @ Cornell

[RichH2]

LAFAYETTE @ Harvard, Johnny is having a bad year, but at home if they just defend the air they should be able to get by a surprising Leopard

FORDHAM @ COLGATE, unless Chase Edmunds suddenly appears this one goes to the home team

GEORGETOWN @ LEHIGH, gutty win at Gate give home team some confidence this week and holds the not so mighty Hoya O to less than 30 points

HOLY CROSS @ Yale, Eli is pretty strong this year and at home against an erratic Crusader team

BUCKNELL @ Cornell, figures to be low scoring and close, could go either way but giving home team the nod with little conviction

mediocre 20-16 on the year

Hey what are you moaning about, I just got back over .500 :).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Are people really so quick to pick Harvard? Struggling offense meeting a defense that has been playing tremendous with growing confidence - this doesn't sound like the stage a huge Crimson victory.

[crusader11]

Because it's germane to the discussion --

Lafayette +17 at Harvard

Bucknell +1.5 at Cornell

Lehigh -14.5 v. Georgetown

Colgate -11 v. Fordham

Holy Cross +6.5 at Yale

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lafayette +17 at Harvard

Jeez - I don't gamble, but if there was ever a sure thing, it's Lafayette +17 and the under. I wonder how much under/Lafayette +7.5 would get one

[crusader11]

O/U is 41.

[carney2]

Jeez - I don't gamble, but if there was ever a sure thing, it's Lafayette +17 and the under. I wonder how much under/Lafayette +7.5 would get one

I'm always looking for a "sure thing" (haven't ever found one), but Lehigh beating Georgetown by more than 14.5 and Yale beating the Cross by more than 6.5 look a lot better than Lafayette holding the Johns closer than 17.5. ... Actually, I like that Lehigh thought so much that I'm fishing around for my bookie's phone number as we speak. (NOTE - Can't find the phone number. I must have thrown it out the last time Killa urged me to "bet the house.")

[KillaBee]

I have multiplied my Hives, for the simple Bee's to seek refuge.. All off the last (2) victories. I relied on advice from Cliff Clavin, Martin Lawrence and The spirit of the great Vince L. If you knew what I know.. You will bet the house that the Leopards will beat down The crimson's by 2.

Carney... those are NOT butterflies you feel, They are BEES!!! I know you want this victory. Take your last possessions; houses, hives, diamonds, and put it all on The Maroon this week and you to will have many hives...

[RichH2]

Point spreads at this point in the season are a decent barometer of outcomes if not necessarily actual scores. Gotta say Pards and Lehigh do look like good bets. Cross with Pistol Pete is not one I would count on to lose by more than the spread. The Nells maybe an under.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You will bet the house that the Leopards will beat down The crimson's by 2

This actually makes sense, because the "beat down" margin of victory in Lafayette's wins have been 3 and 4 points respectively.

[ngineer]

I have multiplied my Hives, for the simple Bee's to seek refuge.. All off the last (2) victories. I relied on advice from Cliff Clavin, Martin Lawrence and The spirit of the great Vince L. If you knew what I know.. You will bet the house that the Leopards will beat down The crimson's by 2.

Carney... those are NOT butterflies you feel, They are BEES!!! I know you want this victory. Take your last possessions; houses, hives, diamonds, and put it all on The Maroon this week and you to will have many hives...

Carney is know to react to various allergens. Carries his own penicillin...(;-)

[ColgateTD]

Colgate - will the trauma of the LU loss linger? Hunt should have his charges ready for the Rams....but who knows?
Harvard - just a hunch the Crimson will beat back the "Beast" of the PL.
Cornell - the friend of your enemy is your friend...whaa?
HC - gambling that P. Pujols has an up day
Lehigh - pains me to say it, but the Ngineers might have a lot of confidence in the officials & that will rule the day.

[soconjohn5]

Furman just scored again...Please give Colgate five more votes.

[TheValleyRaider]

Furman just scored again...Please give Colgate five more votes.

You're about two weeks late on this joke, buddy

[BucBisonAtLarge]

7-25 PL OOC record certainly supports your final sentence.xpeacexxpeacex

Hey, two of those seven wins belong to Bucknell.

Harvard
Colgate
Lehigh
Yale
Bucknell

24-8 so far (took the Bucknell bye-week off)

[LehighU11]

Hey, two of those seven wins belong to Bucknell.

Oddly enough, everyone has 1 or 2 OOC wins except for the 2 miserable Lehigh Valley teams with the inside track to the PL title. It is such a down year for LU that the Athletics Department is marketing 153 as a matchup of two unbeatensxeyebrowx:

Tickets for the Lehigh-Lafayette game are close to selling out. Get yours now. Lehigh (1-0) and Lafayette (2-0) are both undefeated in Patriot League play.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Oddly enough, everyone has 1 or 2 OOC wins except for the 2 miserable Lehigh Valley teams with the inside track to the PL title. It is such a down year for LU that the Athletics Department is marketing 153 as a matchup of two unbeatensxeyebrowx:

Tickets for the Lehigh-Lafayette game are close to selling out. Get yours now. Lehigh (1-0) and Lafayette (2-0) are both undefeated in Patriot League play.

All sarcasm aside, can I order single game Lehigh-Lafayette tickets? I've gotten the "mini" season ticket plan the last two years which got me tickets to the rivalry. I didn't do it this year..

[LehighU11]

All sarcasm aside, can I order single game Lehigh-Lafayette tickets? I've gotten the "mini" season ticket plan the last two years which got me tickets to the rivalry. I didn't do it this year..
Yes, single game tickets for 153 are now available on the Lehigh Sports ticket page. Looks like a limited quantity are currently available on the visitor's side in the upper tier (sections EL and EN). That's somewhat surprising, given that only SRO tickets have gone on sale during the week of the game in past years when the forecast was dry. However, we saw a poor turnout in Easton last year from Lafayette, so perhaps LC sales are down.

[Go Green]

Per Big Green Alert, Harvard Coach Tim Murphy throws some shade at the PL, saying (perhaps accurately) that scholarships have not made a difference.

http://biggreenalertblog.blogspot.com/2017/10/eye-popping-numbers.html

[RichH2]

Per Big Green Alert, Harvard Coach Tim Murphy throws some shade at the PL, saying (perhaps accurately) that scholarships have not made a difference.

http://biggreenalertblog.blogspot.com/2017/10/eye-popping-numbers.html

He is not wrong. Comparing last 2 recruit classes with the 1st 3 , seems clear that PL overall recruited same kids they had been prior to schollies with a few exceptions. True we got more of them with schollies but we didnt target many higher level players. Some like Fordham and Cross went too high with zero success.
Last 2 classes however, coaches have learned the game and recruited much better athletes and players. Now going up against more MAC and FBS with surprising success.

[maninthehighcastle]

LAFAYETTE @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ COLGATE
GEORGETOWN @ LEHIGH
HOLY CROSS @ Yale
BUCKNELL @ Cornell

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Georgetown at Lehigh Game Preview: Enough Was Enough


http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2017/10/georgetown-at-lehigh-game-preview.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Per Big Green Alert, Harvard Coach Tim Murphy throws some shade at the PL, saying (perhaps accurately) that scholarships have not made a difference.

http://biggreenalertblog.blogspot.com/2017/10/eye-popping-numbers.html

He is saying what Patriot League insiders have been speculating about the last few weeks. The wisdom of him, now, expounding on what is best for the Patriot League - that I'm less sure about.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

He is not wrong. Comparing last 2 recruit classes with the 1st 3 , seems clear that PL overall recruited same kids they had been prior to schollies with a few exceptions. True we got more of them with schollies but we didnt target many higher level players. Some like Fordham and Cross went too high with zero success.
Last 2 classes however, coaches have learned the game and recruited much better athletes and players. Now going up against more MAC and FBS with surprising success.
I think characterizing/referencing the "PL" may be necessary for discussing issues like recruiting, aggregate performance, etc at this juncture. Especially because we're just reaching a reasonable point for "seat of the pants" evaluations of the influence of scholies. But I think we're actually witnessing a significant variation of success in recruiting by the individual schools. I'm someone who, from the obscurity of my living room, scientifically follows the "Football Programs" of these schools. And, I think the underlying trajectories for the individual schools bodes a wide range of future performance within the P.L in the next few years.

[RichH2]

I think characterizing/referencing the "PL" is necessary for discussing issues like recruiting, aggregate performance at this juncture, etc. But I think there is a significant variation of how individual schools are are actually doing within these general characterizations. As someone who follows the Football "Programs" of these schools, I think the underlying trajectories for the individual schools, bodes a wide range of success in recruiting and future performance within the P.L in the next few years will render these generalizations less meaningful.

Obviously. How various staffs succeed or fail will always determine what the future holds for each program in and versus other PL teams. My point is merely that the classes the last 2 yrs are overall much better than prior years.
A bigger issue is how do our recent classes compare with those of our OOC opponents. Quite well. Underclassmen ,even talented, will not usually compete well against comparable talent comprised of upperclassman and redshirts.

[Go...gate]

Georgetown at Lehigh Game Preview: Enough Was Enough


http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2017/10/georgetown-at-lehigh-game-preview.html

Great work as always, LFN.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Obviously. How various staffs succeed or fail will always determine what the future holds for each program in and versus other PL teams. My point is merely that the classes the last 2 yrs are overall much better than prior years.
A bigger issue is how do our recent classes compare with those of our OOC opponents. Quite well. Underclassmen ,even talented, will not usually compete well against comparable talent comprised of upperclassman and redshirts. Agreed

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let's talk about schollies for a minute.

We talk about schollies as if there were two eras: Before Schollies and After Schollies. But with the implementation of schollies also came other key restrictions: squad sizes and practice restrictions, both of which I would argue are more relevant to the current state than schollies in their own right.

http://articles.mcall.com/2012-06-08/sports/mc-patriot-league-20120608_1_replay-patriot-league-roster


According to the league, football roster sizes will be reduced in the future. The maximum roster sizes will be set at 95 players in 2013, 92 in 2014 and 90 in 2016. The Patriot League recently said it would allow member programs to award scholarships for football beginning in 2013

1. One of the hidden costs of scholarships was the inability to have relatively large roster sizes (a restriction that, tellingly, the Ivy League has chosen not to implement). The change of the overall roster size from (I think) sometimes topping 100 players down to 90 by last year is a much bigger change than it sounds. It allows for more scholarship money to be concentrated towards the top, sure, but the pool of partials and walkons that might have been able to be developed to form some depth or scout team rosters - those bodies are no longer there.

2. Practices have gone from full-contact to limited-contact very recently as well, as in this year. I can't remember if this is a league-wide edict or something that is working its way into college football overall in general, nor am I sure if this is a gradual process that has been happening over the course of years. But I do believe this has an impact when PL teams play out-of-conference competition early in the year, especially when it comes to the offensive and defensive lines. I don't know if Villanova, Monmouth, practices with full contact or not; maybe they truly are more skilled. But I have my doubts that the discrepancy is that severe.

My theory is that the combination of these two other factors are conspiring to have PL schools lag behind the other full-scholarship conferences. There are other things that could be done to improve the quality of football development at PL schools (redshirting, redshirting, and also redshirting), but even if redshirting is not in the cards, I think relaxing practice restrictions and increasing squad sizes would help Patriot League competitiveness overall. IMO.

[Lehigh'98]

Obviously. How various staffs succeed or fail will always determine what the future holds for each program in and versus other PL teams. My point is merely that the classes the last 2 yrs are overall much better than prior years.
A bigger issue is how do our recent classes compare with those of our OOC opponents. Quite well. Underclassmen ,even talented, will not usually compete well against comparable talent comprised of upperclassman and redshirts.

If you are saying our last two classes are better than 2013 - 2015, you might have a point, but that is completely unproven on the field as there were studs on offense. I havent seen any great D talent. If you are saying the talent is better from 1998 - 2012, I happen to think you are dead wrong.

[Go Green]

2. Practices have gone from full-contact to limited-contact very recently as well, as in this year. I can't remember if this is a league-wide edict or something that is working its way into college football overall in general, nor am I sure if this is a gradual process that has been happening over the course of years. But I do believe this has an impact when PL teams play out-of-conference competition early in the year, especially when it comes to the offensive and defensive lines. I don't know if Villanova, Monmouth, practices with full contact or not; maybe they truly are more skilled. But I have my doubts that the discrepancy is that severe.

.

Dartmouth has moved away from contact in practices for about five years. If we win Saturday, I believe that we will set a school record for consecutive nonconference victories. And not all of them have been of the Kansas State school of thought scheduling (although some certainly were).

Then again, we don't have roster restrictions. :)

[Sader87]

Not discounting it out of hand, but I have a hard time strongly connecting PL woes to not having the 91st to 100th best players playing on their teams.

I think the AI is still probably the toughest hurdle to climb in terms of recruiting (along with not having redshirting... but just dealing with what we can work with here)....as well as the coaches in the league (in general) not being used to recruiting with scholarships yet. Still a work in progress but I think many PL schools and their fans' patience is wearing thin.

[RichH2]

If you are saying our last two classes are better than 2013 - 2015, you might have a point, but that is completely unproven on the field as there were studs on offense. I havent seen any great D talent. If you are saying the talent is better from 1998 - 2012, I happen to think you are dead wrong.

I dont disagree at all. Up until 07 or 08 the landscape of NE football was a good bit different. PL, particularly Lehigh, had much less competition. IL had not yet started to amp up there recruiting. NEC was a ltd schollie league and Monmouth was still there.
The Small-Higgins- Lembo tenure was remarkable.
My sole point here is have schollies started to improve vs our OOC schedule. It has particularly in the current frosh and the verbals. It may well be PL will have to mature for that to become apparent. LFN is correct that redshirting and to a lesser extent roster caps do hinder our ability to consistently compete with the CAA et al.

[RichH2]

Not discounting it out of hand, but I have a hard time strongly connecting PL woes to not having the 91st to 100th best players playing on their teams.

I think the AI is still probably the toughest hurdle to climb in terms of recruiting (along with not having redshirting... but just dealing with what we can work with here)....as well as the coaches in the league (in general) not being used to recruiting with scholarships yet. Still a work in progress but I think many PL schools and their fans' patience is wearing thin.

Well the AI is a restriction but more to attracting a new members than to competitiveness. For the most part, admission requirements in the PL exceed the PL AI floor. It does limit to a certain extent how many low band recruits a coach can bring in but even those merely have to exceed the floor.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not discounting it out of hand, but I have a hard time strongly connecting PL woes to not having the 91st to 100th best players playing on their teams.

I think the AI is still probably the toughest hurdle to climb in terms of recruiting (along with not having redshirting... but just dealing with what we can work with here)....as well as the coaches in the league (in general) not being used to recruiting with scholarships yet. Still a work in progress but I think many PL schools and their fans' patience is wearing thin.

I don't think this is the right way to look at it. The way to see this is a PL football team today has a pool of 90 players they can suit up in August and say "these guys can be football players". The staff doesn't know at that point whether players 91-100 that would have been in camp would a career scout team all-star or a future all-Patriot League starter. Again, this has an larger impact than you might expect.

It's also worth noting that as far as I can tell other conferences don't have limits like this on their preseason roster sizes - or indeed any limits on their roster sizes for home games at all. I couldn't find any historically for the CAA, Big 12, SoCon, or Big Sky. Now they do have travel roster limits - in the Big 12 you can't dress more than 70 players for a road game (and even then there are exceptions). Travel roster size limits make sense. But schools like Princeton, Monmouth, or Villanova can try out any number of walk-ons to become football players, and can dress them all during home games vs. Patriot League schools. In contrast, Patriot League schools can only invite 90 bodies to camp in August.

[van]

It's also worth noting that as far as I can tell other conferences don't have limits like this on their preseason roster sizes - or indeed any limits on their roster sizes for home games at all. I couldn't find any historically for the CAA, Big 12, SoCon, or Big Sky. Now they do have travel roster limits - in the Big 12 you can't dress more than 70 players for a road game (and even then there are exceptions). Travel roster size limits make sense. But schools like Princeton, Monmouth, or Villanova can try out any number of walk-ons to become football players, and can dress them all during home games vs. Patriot League schools. In contrast, Patriot League schools can only invite 90 bodies to camp in August.

While other conferences do not have roster limits, they do have the 63 limit on schollies (Ivy excepted). 3 more rides could be 6 more partial bodies, but after that they are walk ons everywhere. Not sure how many walk ons we could reasonably expect at PL schools given tuition $$'s.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Not discounting it out of hand, but I have a hard time strongly connecting PL woes to not having the 91st to 100th best players playing on their teams.

I think the AI is still probably the toughest hurdle to climb in terms of recruiting (along with not having redshirting... but just dealing with what we can work with here)....as well as the coaches in the league (in general) not being used to recruiting with scholarships yet. Still a work in progress but I think many PL schools and their fans' patience is wearing thin.

You are clearly not referring to the situation in every PL school. ( "I think many PL schools and their fans' patience is wearing thin." ). You may be accurately characterizing the situation at H.C.. I know your comments don't reflect the situation at 'gate. The % of P.L. students, alums, fans and other school constituencies that care about this as much as you do, is very small. Imho, these PL group members should take a close look at histotical athletic decisions made by TPTB at H.C., that precede this "loss of fan patience." They'd feel uncomfortable being included in your homogenous PL grouping of "impatient fans."

Specifically on the A.I, H.C. is not at a disadvantage in recruiting aganst other P.L. and Ivy schools. H.C. has a distinct advantage provided by their current academic data. Maybe H.C. will be at a disadvantage when it plays Syracuse and Navy in back to back weeks in the same season in 2019. The latter is another example of an H.C. decision, not a P.L. decision.

[ngineer]

Oddly enough, everyone has 1 or 2 OOC wins except for the 2 miserable Lehigh Valley teams with the inside track to the PL title. It is such a down year for LU that the Athletics Department is marketing 153 as a matchup of two unbeatensxeyebrowx:

Tickets for the Lehigh-Lafayette game are close to selling out. Get yours now. Lehigh (1-0) and Lafayette (2-0) are both undefeated in Patriot League play.

Hey, it could be a heck of a battle for the auto-bid to New Hampshire or Richmond.

[ngineer]

Per Big Green Alert, Harvard Coach Tim Murphy throws some shade at the PL, saying (perhaps accurately) that scholarships have not made a difference.

http://biggreenalertblog.blogspot.com/2017/10/eye-popping-numbers.html

I think he's correct. I really don't think the scholarships have had 'significant' impact. Most of the kids are still the same we would have gotten. Each team gets a few skill people or behemoths we might not have normally gotten, but not enough to really change the dynamics.

[ngineer]

Let's talk about schollies for a minute.

We talk about schollies as if there were two eras: Before Schollies and After Schollies. But with the implementation of schollies also came other key restrictions: squad sizes and practice restrictions, both of which I would argue are more relevant to the current state than schollies in their own right.

http://articles.mcall.com/2012-06-08/sports/mc-patriot-league-20120608_1_replay-patriot-league-roster



1. One of the hidden costs of scholarships was the inability to have relatively large roster sizes (a restriction that, tellingly, the Ivy League has chosen not to implement). The change of the overall roster size from (I think) sometimes topping 100 players down to 90 by last year is a much bigger change than it sounds. It allows for more scholarship money to be concentrated towards the top, sure, but the pool of partials and walkons that might have been able to be developed to form some depth or scout team rosters - those bodies are no longer there.

2. Practices have gone from full-contact to limited-contact very recently as well, as in this year. I can't remember if this is a league-wide edict or something that is working its way into college football overall in general, nor am I sure if this is a gradual process that has been happening over the course of years. But I do believe this has an impact when PL teams play out-of-conference competition early in the year, especially when it comes to the offensive and defensive lines. I don't know if Villanova, Monmouth, practices with full contact or not; maybe they truly are more skilled. But I have my doubts that the discrepancy is that severe.

My theory is that the combination of these two other factors are conspiring to have PL schools lag behind the other full-scholarship conferences. There are other things that could be done to improve the quality of football development at PL schools (redshirting, redshirting, and also redshirting), but even if redshirting is not in the cards, I think relaxing practice restrictions and increasing squad sizes would help Patriot League competitiveness overall. IMO.

The IL schools have rostes with other 100--Princeton had 120 on the sideline the last time we visited Old Nassau. Everyone knew that smaller rosters were going to be problem, especially when the injury bug bites.

[Sader87]

You are clearly not referring to the situation in every PL school. ( "I think many PL schools and their fans' patience is wearing thin." ). You may be accurately characterizing the situation at H.C.. I know your comments don't reflect the situation at 'gate. The % of P.L. students, alums, fans and other school constituencies that care about this as much as you do, is very small. Imho, these PL group members should take a close look at histotical athletic decisions made by TPTB at H.C., that precede this "loss of fan patience." They'd feel uncomfortable being included in your homogenous PL grouping of "impatient fans."

Specifically on the A.I, H.C. is not at a disadvantage in recruiting aganst other P.L. and Ivy schools. H.C. has a distinct advantage provided by their current academic data. Maybe H.C. will be at a disadvantage when it plays Syracuse and Navy back to back in the same season in 2019. The latter is another example of an H.C. decision, not a P.L. decision.

Think you're wrong here....perusing various PL boards, I know fans/supporters are exasperated at Fordham and Lehigh (as well as HC) with how they have performed this year.

I'm pretty sure you're "realism" on the HC board....no? Always bird-dogging and putting down Holy Cross there...it's cool, no worries.. we can take it.

[Go...gate]

The league survived a pretty bad OOC record in 1994 when it had no scholarships. It will survive the present situation.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

perusing various PL boards, I know fans/supporters are exasperated at Fordham and Lehigh (as well as HC) with how they have performed this year.

I mean no harm. I have no idea what/who "realism" is.
I just think the breadth and depth of the H.C. problems are significantly greater and different than at Lehigh and Fordham (and the rest of the P.L). Those 2 institutions have had some success in recent years. There's no way to equate the cumulative wear on the psyches of H.C. fans with fans of any other P.L. institution. The distinctions go on and on. You sound like an H.C. "Rip van Winkle." Or a "selective amnesiac."
H.C. is emerging from a multi-decade "bad dream" and a dismal football record over the past few years, The way you characterize H.C.'s place in the current world presupposes that the "bad dream" and the recent dismal 6 year performance never happened.....Your characterizations assume that H.C. has re-emerged to an entitled place within the collegiate athletic landscape. You assume that the perceptions of H.C. haven't changed dramatically within this landscape--most recent perfomance doesn't really count.....you assume opinion within the current athletic landscape provides special credit for selective H.C. accomplishments from before the beginning of the "sad dream."

[Neighbor2]

Every team in a league wants to win their league. That's an obvious measure of excellence, a given. The Patriot League, it seems, is content at that level of success. A playoff appearance is looked at as a gift, an extension of the season for your team. Actually winning a playoff game, less a concern. How can it be, if you accept competitive limits beyond what your playoff opponent does? The teams in your bracket are not your peers. Frustrating situation for players and fans, I believe.

Over the years, some have proposed creating a Patriot//Ivy Championship Game in lieu of FCS Playoffs participation. Have the game at Meadowlands or Yankee Stadium every year. This seems a more appropriate season conclusion under present circumstances.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Every team in a league wants to win their league. That's an obvious measure of excellence, a given. The Patriot League, it seems, is content at that level of success. A playoff appearance is looked at as a gift, an extension of the season for your team. Actually winning a playoff game, less a concern. How can it be, if you accept competitive limits beyond what your playoff opponent does? The teams in your bracket are not your peers. Frustrating situation for players and fans, I believe.

Over the years, some have proposed creating a Patriot//Ivy Championship Game in lieu of FCS Playoffs participation. Have the game at Meadowlands or Yankee Stadium every year. This seems a more appropriate season conclusion under present circumstances.

I'm also starting to wonder if the league should continue to participate in the playoffs. I know Colgate won two playoff games in 2015 but based on the league's postseason performance the last 10+ years it sure seems like a fluke. Outside of the two week period they caught fire they were a complete afterthought during the regular season. Given the overall erosion of the Raider program the last few years I wouldn't count on them duplicating that feat anytime soon. In their more recent playoff visits Fordham, Lehigh and Lafayette have all embarrassed themselves and the league against power conference teams.

Without redshirting or the commitment to host playoff games the deck is clearly stacked. I don't see what the point is to send a team year after year that has zero chance to seriously compete for a title. At least the OVC has Jacksonville State and the Southland has SHSU and UCA. The Patriot League doesn't have anyone that's truly a force on a national level and that likely isn't going to change without improved coaching, redshirting, expanded rosters and more institutional support.

Lafayette might be the league's best hope to be relevant nationally moving forward which is sobering though. Colgate has far too many middling seasons, Lehigh's ceiling is clear under Coen, Holy Cross is doomed with Gilmore, Breiner is in over his head, Bucknell doesn't care about football and Georgetown is hopeless.

[DFW HOYA]

The Patriot League doesn't have anyone that's truly a force on a national level and that likely isn't going to change without improved coaching, redshirting, expanded rosters and more institutional support.

Five of the seven PL schools are among the top 20 by budget size in the entire subdivision. That's not the issue.

(Now, when you're 111th, that's an issue.)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Five of the seven PL schools are among the top 20 by budget size in the entire subdivision. That's not the issue.

(Now, when you're 111th, that's an issue.)

Institutional support goes well beyond $$....

[DFW HOYA]

Institutional support goes well beyond $$....

Well, be specific, what is Lehigh not providing?

Georgetown gets lots of institutional support but not the financial kind. At its core, I get it--if the school is going going to invest $6 million in a team other than basketball, chances are good it's not going to be doing it in the Patriot League, where the return on investment is marginal. What's Fordham getting for that $6 million spent on football this season?

If the PL leadership is content with GU playing on the cheap, and that's been the case since day one, then it's not going to change.

[RichH2]

Last few years PL has suffered embarrassing Ls. Yes we have a number of unnecessarily restrictive caps on our programs. Yes we have high academic standards. From these facts some conclude we should just throw the towel in and go back to being the Ivy Lite League.
Simply because our path is more difficult than CAA et al is not to my mind a reason to just give up. I understand disappointed expectations. We all kinda figured 5 years into schollies we would be much more competitive. As it turned out the learning curve for schollie recruiting was much steeper and more time consuming than anticipated.
PL coaches spent too much time recruiting the same players as preschollie . We upgraded our OOC. OOOPS,we got hammered. Staffs do seem to have figured it out over the last 2 years. The current verbals are really impressive given the multiple FBS and FCS power team offers.
A bit early I believe to throw our hands in the air and give up.PL schools strive for excellence. I see no reason to avoid a hard road just because its tough.
Fully agree that PL should remove the financial caps given to get schollie vote approved. We should go to 63. Redshirting should be allowed at least to allow a set number of redshirts each year.
The AI is not a major restriction to competition. In any event I dont see our Presidents giving it up.

[Lehigh'98]

The puzzling part to me is that the NEC seems to be doing a much better job of competing even at 40 schollies. What is the roster size for their teams? If you have a 20 scholarship advantage over a team, they shouldn't be kicking your ass on a consistent basis. I'm not sure whether to give credit to the NEC or take it as a huge red flag for the PL. I'd be very curios to see their OOC record vs. PL, Ivy & other conferences the past 7-8 years. They definitely don't seem to win consistently against any of the power conferences.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Georgetown Game Breakdown and Fearless Prediction: A Lehigh Show-Me Game


https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2017/10/georgetown-at-lehigh-game-breakdown-and.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

101 players are listed on Duquesne's roster:

http://www.goduquesne.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/duqu-m-footbl-mtt.html

[RichH2]

The puzzling part to me is that the NEC seems to be doing a much better job of competing even at 40 schollies. What is the roster size for their teams? If you have a 20 scholarship advantage over a team, they shouldn't be kicking your ass on a consistent basis. I'm not sure whether to give credit to the NEC or take it as a huge red flag for the PL. I'd be very curios to see their OOC record vs. PL, Ivy & other conferences the past 7-8 years. They definitely don't seem to win consistently against any of the power conferences.
NEC cap is deceptive. They can mix and match merit and need aid up to the NCAA max of 63. I think they are up to 45 IIR. The NEC the last couple of years has competed quite well in OOC.

[kdinva]

....what the heck:



Lafayette 20 @ Harvard 34
FORDHAM 31 @ COLGATE 29
GEORGETOWN 13 @ LEHIGH 28
Holy Cross 28 @ Yale 35
BUCKNELL 21 @ Cornell 17

[Lehigh Football Nation]

For fun I counted number of players on the roster of Lehigh's opponents:

Villanova: 92
Monmouth: 101
Yale: 107
Penn: 102
Wagner: 130
Colgate: 83

The prosecution rests.

[RichH2]

Harvard close over Pards
Gate
Lehigh
Cross. Just dont like Yalies
Bucknell

[Lehigh Football Nation]

An LFN Investigation: What's Wrong with Patriot League football?

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2017/10/an-lfn-investigation-whats-wrong-with.html

[RichH2]

Well dont really agree as to impact of PL roster cap. At least to the extent you imply. It certainly affects our depth. The issue tho is our 1st teamers are getting creamed not not that last 10 or 15 guys we used to have on rosters. I still maintain we are seeing growing pains. Murphy not incorrect in concluding that our 1st 3 years we brought in, with a few exceptions , the same caliber players as preschollie. The 4th and 5th classes coaches finally climbed the learning curve and have started bringing higher quality players. Our problem this year is we have amped our OOC but our starters so far are mostly our upperclassmen. Lets see how the PL improves as the frosh and sophs mature.

[Go Green]

An LFN Investigation: What's Wrong with Patriot League football?

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2017/10/an-lfn-investigation-whats-wrong-with.html

Great stuff, as always!

One thing missing-- you seem to imply that the Ivy would be the biggest loser when the PL began offering scholarships. Didn't the PL envision getting guys from other places? Because if anything, the Ivy has gotten better, not worse, at recruiting in the past 10 years. We're getting more and more guys who had BCS scholarship offers, and sending more and more guys to NFL camps.

The reasons why the Ivy has improved recruiting is a story for another day. But my point is that if the PL didn't have a "Plan B" about where the improved athletes were going to come from after the Ivy, then small wonder that it doesn't seem that anything has changed after scholarships were instituted.

[Doc QB]

The IL schools have rostes with other 100--Princeton had 120 on the sideline the last time we visited Old Nassau. Everyone knew that smaller rosters were going to be problem, especially when the injury bug bites.

I was at that game at Princeton as well...I remember seeing PU trot out 120 guys on the sideline. However, I just cant see how another 30 guys helps you, when there is NO WAY the last 30 on the roster will have any impact on the game, and will only impact practice as scout team guys...and you cant even hit them any more.

We lost that day, not because of a 120 Tiggers on the sideline, nor the extra bodies they had, but the five turnovers generated by our offense, some of which were deep in PU territory on scoring drives.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Great stuff, as always!

One thing missing-- you seem to imply that the Ivy would be the biggest loser when the PL began offering scholarships. Didn't the PL envision getting guys from other places? Because if anything, the Ivy has gotten better, not worse, at recruiting in the past 10 years. We're getting more and more guys who had BCS scholarship offers, and sending more and more guys to NFL camps.

The reasons why the Ivy has improved recruiting is a story for another day. But my point is that if the PL didn't have a "Plan B" about where the improved athletes were going to come from after the Ivy, then small wonder that it doesn't seem that anything has changed after scholarships were instituted.

That's a really good point. I guess I did frame it as a PL vs. Ivy type of recruiting battle but in truth the recruiting battles are with, well everyone. Every school in America wants to recruit a football player that can play Division I football with a 4.0 average. It's more about how aid limits that process. Let's put it this way: As a PL school, you don't want to unnecessarily give reasons for a recruit to look elsewhere. For a long time, that was "geez, why am I going through this financial aid hassle when Delaware will just give me a full ride?" and also, "Harvard and Lehigh are both giving me hassles on financial aid, but whom would I rather endure the hassles for, Harvard or Lehigh?" Neither set of schools operated in a vacuum; both the PL and IL changed.

Personally, at Lehigh, I think the current group of offensive skill players, together, is the best ever assembled at Lehigh. They've had some great QBs, and some great WRs, and some great RBs, but never all on the same field all at once. Addiitionally, it's not just Lehigh: Fordham has the best RB they've ever had (Chase Edmonds), Holy Cross got an all-time great QB (Pete Pujals), and Colgate has gotten some fantastic overall teams (2015, who beat JMU) and guys who will get NFL looks out of school (DE Pat Afriye). This is why I have such a hard time laying this all the the feet of scholarships.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I was at that game at Princeton as well...I remember seeing PU trot out 120 guys on the sideline. However, I just cant see how another 30 guys helps you, when there is NO WAY the last 30 on the roster will have any impact on the game, and will only impact practice as scout team guys...and you cant even hit them any more.

We lost that day, not because of a 120 Tiggers on the sideline, nor the extra bodies they had, but the five turnovers generated by our offense, some of which were deep in PU territory on scoring drives.

The "and you can't even hit them anymore" I agree is another factor in all of this, but I'm less certain as to whether other FCS schools are operating under any restrictions, so I couldn't isolate it as an issue. It seems to vary wildly - Dartmouth doesn't have full contact practices.

The impact of the last 30 guys to dress on the sideline definitely isn't about gameday, it's about prep and practice and having the widest available pool of players to pick from week to week.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That's a really good point. I guess I did frame it as a PL vs. Ivy type of recruiting battle but in truth the recruiting battles are with, well everyone. Every school in America wants to recruit a football player that can play Division I football with a 4.0 average. It's more about how aid limits that process. Let's put it this way: As a PL school, you don't want to unnecessarily give reasons for a recruit to look elsewhere. For a long time, that was "geez, why am I going through this financial aid hassle when Delaware will just give me a full ride?" and also, "Harvard and Lehigh are both giving me hassles on financial aid, but whom would I rather endure the hassles for, Harvard or Lehigh?" Neither set of schools operated in a vacuum; both the PL and IL changed.

Personally, at Lehigh, I think the current group of offensive skill players, together, is the best ever assembled at Lehigh. They've had some great QBs, and some great WRs, and some great RBs, but never all on the same field all at once. Addiitionally, it's not just Lehigh: Fordham has the best RB they've ever had (Chase Edmonds), Holy Cross got an all-time great QB (Pete Pujals), and Colgate has gotten some fantastic overall teams (2015, who beat JMU) and guys who will get NFL looks out of school (DE Pat Afriye). This is why I have such a hard time laying this all the the feet of scholarships.

I agree this is one of the best set skill guys ever. If the team had a defense Mayes would be up for the Payton Award. However the jimmy and joes on defense don't stack up. The issues goes beyond coaching, well kind of. The front 7 in the CAA, MVFC, Big Sky etc are simly bigger and stronger. For the most PL teams struggle to hang in the trenches on D. Higgins and Lembo's Lehigh teams, some of Biddle's teams and Lafayette in 2004 and 2005 possessed big time FCS front 7s. Until the PL can get get bigger and stronger along the lines they're screwed imo.

The league has some great individual talent but as a whole it sucks unfortunately. I know the PL has tough academic standards but there is some leeway. Their recruiting pool is still pretty big. I don't see how in the world the PL is behind the NEC. Those are not recruiting battles thr league should lose. Likewise, going 0-4 in pathetic fashion to Monmouth is not a good look. The Hawks have come a long way but all things considered their chips don't stack up to Lehigh, Lafayette and Holy Cross.

Lehigh has so many of the tangible, and intangible, pieces that are needsd to be a true Top 15 fcs program(like they were from '98-'05) but they can't quite figure it out lately.

[Go...gate]

Harvard 23, Lafayette 13

Colgate 21, Fordham 19

Lehigh 33, Georgetown 14

Yale 30, Holy Cross 21

Cornell 17, Bucknell 16

Bonus Picks:

Princeton 28, Brown 20

Hun 27, Hill 24

[Go...gate]

Every team in a league wants to win their league. That's an obvious measure of excellence, a given. The Patriot League, it seems, is content at that level of success. A playoff appearance is looked at as a gift, an extension of the season for your team. Actually winning a playoff game, less a concern. How can it be, if you accept competitive limits beyond what your playoff opponent does? The teams in your bracket are not your peers. Frustrating situation for players and fans, I believe.

Over the years, some have proposed creating a Patriot//Ivy Championship Game in lieu of FCS Playoffs participation. Have the game at Meadowlands or Yankee Stadium every year. This seems a more appropriate season conclusion under present circumstances.

That was actually the original concept when the league was formed - patterned after the Ivy, where the league title has been and remains quite important.

I don't agree with the doom and gloom that seems to be creeping in. I also think that Colgate's success in 2015 displayed a strong sign of the league's potential rather than its inevitable decline. We need to stay the course.

[Bluefish845]

Go Lehigh I don't believe that the PL and Nec are recruiting the same types of player, and that is the fundamental difference. LFN said it before every college football team wants to Recruit a fantastic football player with a 4.0 but most often and I think some of you PL guys have lost sight of the fact that you are not winning many of those recruiting battles. These kids all want to play FBS and given a choice between an ivy or Pl school I think 8 out of 10 times a kid is going ivy if receiving the same offer. You need to be able to offer something different to attract the type of kids that your league basically demands you bring in. I have never heard of a PL transfer but I know CCSU, Wagner, SFU, And even Robert Morris have transfers on the roster. I think Shu may have 1. I'm Sure the winner of the Pl this year Monmouth has transfers as well. Now the 4th or is it 5th year of full schollies and from the sound of the PL diehards you really have to evaluate whether the PL model is sustainable enough to produce competitive, let me rephrase that to be competitive enough to your liking and have the type of success that you seek. Back to the different kids recruited by say NEC schools. I like to say our kids are waterfall kids they fell through the cracks of CAA or Big South or even FBs schools. the kids hear " hey we really like you you are next on our list" only to never hear from that school. Colgate says you are not big enough for your position, Shu says we will take you, Lafayette says your Sat's aren't high enough, Shu and Bryant say we'll take you. It is your own rules that are limiting the players you will take and even then your are third choice after Fbs and Ivy's I really do enjoy reading about you guys lamenting talking of the demise of the league. Keep up the good work. By the way I am pretty sure every single kid on any of the NEC teams would've loved the opportunity to play for a PL school. Good luck the rest of the way guys.xthumbsupxxdrunkyx

[Leopard Loyalist]

Home teams across the board.

LAFAYETTE @ Harvard
FORDHAM @ COLGATE
GEORGETOWN @ LEHIGH
HOLY CROSS @ Yale
BUCKNELL @ Cornell

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All the media (podcasts, videos) in the run-up to the Georgetown/Lehigh game this weekend:


http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2017/10/georgetown-at-lehigh-media-pack-wvideo.html

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Just go home from the 'Cuse-Clemson game! Wow!!

Yale
Harvard
Lehigh
Colgate
Bucknell

[CHIP72]

FWIW (and I just found this out), for those of you who have Verizon FiOS and aren't based in New England, NESN is available on Channel 97. NESN will televise the Lafayette/Harvard game.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate 14 Fordham 0 7:39 2Q
Harvard 14 Lafayette 7 7:48 2Q
Lehigh 7 Georgetown 0 4:54 1Q

[DFW HOYA]

Go Lehigh I don't believe that the PL and Nec are recruiting the same types of player, and that is the fundamental difference. LFN said it before every college football team wants to Recruit a fantastic football player with a 4.0 but most often and I think some of you PL guys have lost sight of the fact that you are not winning many of those recruiting battles. These kids all want to play FBS and given a choice between an ivy or Pl school I think 8 out of 10 times a kid is going ivy if receiving the same offer. You need to be able to offer something different to attract the type of kids that your league basically demands you bring in.

If 8 out of 10 times that kid is going to the Ivy, chances are good the other two are getting that PL scholarship.

Obviously, not much left for the non-scholarship PL team.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Harvard 21 Lafayette 7 Half

Just in case anyone needed a reminder about how bad the league is....

[DFW HOYA]

Harvard 21 Lafayette 7 Half

Just in case anyone needed a reminder about how bad the league is....

21-7 beats 31-2...sort of.

[RichH2]

Lehigh 14-0 . TD pass to Pelletier.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Too late but I am going with roster size on my picks:

Harvard
Yale
Cornell
Lehigh
Colgate

[CHIP72]

Am I the only one who has had the Georgetown/Lehigh game stream on watchstadium.com totally freeze?

[Pards Rule]

Mid 3rd Harvard 31, Lafayette 10... Special teams allow punt return & start of 2nd half KO for TDs. Way to hand Crimson 14 points.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh is opening a can of whoop ass on Georgetown

35-14 just before half...

[CHIP72]

Lehigh is opening a can of whoop ass on Georgetown

35-14 just before half...

LU missed the extra point on that last TD.

[RichH2]

Nope. Listeni g on ESPNLV

[DFW HOYA]

Lehigh is opening a can of whoop ass on Georgetown
35-14 just before half...

Georgetown offense under Johnson looking better than it has for years.

Nonetheless, GU is 5-41 since 2011 when allowing 14 or more points in a game.

[CHIP72]

Nope. Listeni g on ESPNLV

I think I needed to update the Chromebook I'm using to watch Georgetown/Lehigh. (I'm also streaming Bloomsburg/West Chester, and watching Connecticut/Temple on TV, so all that demand probably impacted my GU/LU stream too. Both of the streamed games have had occasional freezes.)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yale 17 Holy Cross 0 5:31 2Q
Bucknell 10 Cornell 0 3:13 2Q
Colgate 24 Fordham 6 1:30 3Q

[van]

I think I needed to update the Chromebook I'm using to watch Georgetown/Lehigh. (I'm also streaming Bloomsburg/West Chester, and watching Connecticut/Temple on TV, so all that demand probably impacted my GU/LU stream too. Both of the streamed games have had occasional freezes.)

I froze also, Stadium service is a big step down from campus insiders last year

[Pards Rule]

Basically final...Harvard 38, Lafayette 10

[DFW HOYA]

The Lehigh announcers say Sgarlata struggles because Georgetown "is a basketball school". Basketball has nothing to do with it. Did Andy Talley struggle because Villanova "is a basketball school"?

Are PL announcers advised not to talk about a 60 scholarship gap?

[RichH2]

I froze also, Stadium service is a big step down from campus insiders last year

I am listening. Boy our D is woefully inconsistent. Had a decent 1st quarter. Not much postive since then.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate 38 Fordham 12 Final

Is Breiner safe?

[Sader87]

Holy Cross losing to Yale 32-0 early 3rd..... silver lining being, we have looked so bad, no one in their right mind would retain Gilmore after this season.

[CHIP72]

I froze also, Stadium service is a big step down from campus insiders last year

Streaming has gotten better as the GU/LU game has progressed.

I've added a fourth game and third streamed game (IUP/Slippery Rock joining Georgetown/Lehigh and Bloomsburg/West Chester), and knock on wood, all the streams have been solid since I added IUP/SRU.

[RichH2]

Pelletier gets 4th TD on 48 yd pass from Mayes. 44-21.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh player is being taken off the field on the stretcher. Put his head down to make a hit and things did not end well....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD Georgetown! Even the Hoya fans can now appreciate how bad the Lehigh "D" is....

Lehigh 44-28 14:08 4Q

[bulldog10jw]

Wondering why Holy Cross tries a FG on 4th and 11 from the Yale 19 down 32-0

Just to avoid the shutout?

The FG was no good

[DFW HOYA]

TD Georgetown! Even the Hoya fans can now appreciate how bad the Lehigh "D" is....


As opposed to a Georgetown defense which has allowed 40+ points in three straight games and 45+ back to back?

[RichH2]

As opposed to a Georgetown defense which has allowed 40+ points in three straight games and 45+ back to back?

Lehigh D is atrocious. Hoyas at least have excuse of no schollies. LU doesnt. No matter how inept the O is we are facing we can make them look good. Ugh

[DFW HOYA]

Umm...50 back to back.

[RichH2]

Umm...50 back to back.
Yeah but you doubled your points scored.

[RichH2]

54-35 final. Happy for Pelletier and the rest of the O. D players and coaches should be embarrassed.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Umm...50 back to back.

Lehigh's offense is very good and was expected to rank up points this year. Georgetown's offense is terrible and put up 35. The Lehigh "D" couldn't muster up enough pride to hold them under 30 at the end. It's just embarrassing how bad the defense is....

[van]

Lehigh's offense is very good and was expected to rank up points this year. Georgetown's offense is terrible and put up 35. The Lehigh "D" couldn't muster up enough pride to hold them under 30 at the end. It's just embarrassing how bad the defense is....

not defending the D, but to be fair the last Hoya drive was against guys that never see the field

[RichH2]

not defending the D, but to be fair the last Hoya drive was against guys that never see the field
True enuf. Wonder if we held Hoyas under 500 yds?

[van]

True enuf. Wonder if we held Hoyas under 500 yds?

think it was about 400 yds, would have been more but they had mostly short fields due to our kickoff mess

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Bucknell 26 Cornell 18 Final

The Bison are lurking!!

[DFW HOYA]

In 114 seasons of varsity football, Georgetown has allowed 50 or more points just 16 times ever.

This team just did it in consecutive games.

[LehighU11]

Columbia was 0-10 in 2014 prior to Bagnoli arriving in Morningside Heights. Now, they are 4-0 and leading late in the 4th against Penn in front of a packed house miles away from campus (sound familiar Lehigh?). They've held the Quakers to 227 yards. A program that has just 4 winning seasons since the Eisenhower administration has managed to remake itself in less than 3 years. How have they done so? Increasing assistant coaching salaries, hiring 2 full time strength and conditioning coaches, and building a practice bubble for the team.

There is no reason why none of the 6 Patriot League members with schollies should be unable to field competitive teams at this level with competent coaching staffs in front of respectable crowds. I believe Lafayette is the only PL member making strides in each category. Columbia has demonstrated the necessary institutional support to spark a turnaround over the past 3 years, while LU and HC at the very least have not. It's about time for some serious introspection by our members.

[Lehigh'98]

In 114 seasons of varsity football, Georgetown has allowed 50 or more points just 16 times ever.

This team just did it in consecutive games.

You are a trooper Hoya. Most would have abandoned ship long ago. I don't think our offense putting up points is
embarrassing, we have talent on that side. Good game.

[DFW HOYA]

There is no reason why none of the 6 Patriot League members with schollies should be unable to field competitive teams at this level with competent coaching staffs in front of respectable crowds. I believe Lafayette is the only PL member making strides in each category. Columbia has demonstrated the necessary institutional support to spark a turnaround over the past 3 years, while LU and HC at the very least have not. It's about time for some serious introspection by our members.

Introspection? This is the Patriot League, after all.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Colgare 38 Fordham 12 Final

Nothing significant other than ability to shrug off "victim-hood" from the robbery last week. A life lesson
Broadcast commentators are still showing clips of last week's calls and expressing shock
.

[CFBfan]

Columbia was 0-10 in 2014 prior to Bagnoli arriving in Morningside Heights. Now, they are 4-0 and leading late in the 4th against Penn in front of a packed house miles away from campus (sound familiar Lehigh?). They've held the Quakers to 227 yards. A program that has just 4 winning seasons since the Eisenhower administration has managed to remake itself in less than 3 years. How have they done so? Increasing assistant coaching salaries, hiring 2 full time strength and conditioning coaches, and building a practice bubble for the team.

There is no reason why none of the 6 Patriot League members with schollies should be unable to field competitive teams at this level with competent coaching staffs in front of respectable crowds. I believe Lafayette is the only PL member making strides in each category. Columbia has demonstrated the necessary institutional support to spark a turnaround over the past 3 years, while LU and HC at the very least have not. It's about time for some serious introspection by our members.

it's all about the HC!! look at FU prior to and after Mooreheabd in addition to Columbia

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Columbia-Penn going into ovetime

[Colgate Raider Redux]

touchdown!!!! Columbia wins in O.T.

First victory over Penn since '96

[LehighU11]

Columbia just beat Penn (for the first time 21 years) in OT to move to 5-0. Naturally, the students stormed the field. Safe to say there were more students on hand than at all PL games combined this weekend.

[DFW HOYA]

Columbia just beat Penn (for the first time 21 years) in OT to move to 5-0. Naturally, the students stormed the field. Safe to say there were more students on hand than at all PL games combined this weekend.

https://twitter.com/ColumbiaLionsFB/status/919295735669186560

[ColgateTD]

I froze also, Stadium service is a big step down from campus insiders last year

You can say that again. I had constant freezing with the Colgate-Fordham game.

[ngineer]

I froze also, Stadium service is a big step down from campus insiders last year

interesting you say that, because I thought, last week, the Stadium coverage was great. Better picture, no streaming freezes, etc. Didn't watch this week as I was at Goodman.

[ngineer]

I was at the game in Goodman, and after reviewing all the comments, I think all of the dumping on the "D" is a bit misplaced. It certainly was not a great performance, and true, we gave up 35 points, but the last TD was against level 3 players, and some of the other scores were set up by lousy kickoff coverage that gave the Hoyas a short field, and two PF's that greatly assisted another drive. I thought the D was decent against the run, especially in the first half, with the QB the leading rusher on scrambles. I think the Hoya QB could be a very good one in another year or two. For a freshman, he showed me a lot both in terms of composure, arm and mobility. The WRs made some excellent catches with DBs on them. The 80 yard TD pass was a pass that should have been intercepted. Again, I realize this was a Georgetown offense, but the D made some very good plays out there and really bottled the Hoyas in the first half. Hoyas opened up their O moreso in the second half. There seemed to be better tackling this week.
Lehigh's O was clicking on all cylinders (except for Mayes' opening INT that was underthrown). While I expected the 'air raid' we saw, even without injured Gatlin Casey, but was was impressive was the run game with well over 200 yards against a defensive front the was BIG. We had two freshmen starting today on the OL, so a lot of pluses there. Twas also great to see Mish back for the punting and giving him a chance at some short FGs. Braggalone and Brisker are becoming the "Killer B's". Keeping those guys healthy will do wonders in taking the pressure off the pass game as we go down the final stretch.

[ngineer]

Columbia just beat Penn (for the first time 21 years) in OT to move to 5-0. Naturally, the students stormed the field. Safe to say there were more students on hand than at all PL games combined this weekend.

Well, Lehigh students were away on break, so that explained the empty horseshoe and student section. Still, I'd estimate barely 5 thousand at Goodman.

[LehighU11]

Attendance figures for 10/14
4,438 at Lehigh vs. Georgetown
2,622 at Colgate vs. Fordham

13,081 at Columbia vs. Penn
10,025 at Harvard vs. Lafayette
8,709 at Yale vs. Holy Cross
4,202 at Cornell vs. Bucknell

[ngineer]

Attendance figures for 10/14
4,438 at Lehigh vs. Georgetown
2,622 at Colgate vs. Fordham

13,081 at Columbia vs. Penn
10,025 at Harvard vs. Lafayette
8,709 at Yale vs. Holy Cross
4,202 at Cornell vs. Bucknell

Great to see the stands full at Columbia. I remember games over there years ago with more Lehigh people than those in powder blue. Of course, the Lions are the new "thing" that has caught many by surprise and hence the interest and curiosity. I hope they keep it up, but will it be sustained? Everyone likes a winner.

[PAllen]

I was at the game in Goodman, and after reviewing all the comments, I think all of the dumping on the "D" is a bit misplaced. It certainly was not a great performance, and true, we gave up 35 points, but the last TD was against level 3 players, and some of the other scores were set up by lousy kickoff coverage that gave the Hoyas a short field, and two PF's that greatly assisted another drive. I thought the D was decent against the run, especially in the first half, with the QB the leading rusher on scrambles. I think the Hoya QB could be a very good one in another year or two. For a freshman, he showed me a lot both in terms of composure, arm and mobility. The WRs made some excellent catches with DBs on them. The 80 yard TD pass was a pass that should have been intercepted. Again, I realize this was a Georgetown offense, but the D made some very good plays out there and really bottled the Hoyas in the first half. Hoyas opened up their O moreso in the second half. There seemed to be better tackling this week.
Lehigh's O was clicking on all cylinders (except for Mayes' opening INT that was underthrown). While I expected the 'air raid' we saw, even without injured Gatlin Casey, but was was impressive was the run game with well over 200 yards against a defensive front the was BIG. We had two freshmen starting today on the OL, so a lot of pluses there. Twas also great to see Mish back for the punting and giving him a chance at some short FGs. Braggalone and Brisker are becoming the "Killer B's". Keeping those guys healthy will do wonders in taking the pressure off the pass game as we go down the final stretch.

DFW, remind me again how many rushing yards GU was averaging per game coming into this one?

[DFW HOYA]

DFW, remind me again how many rushing yards GU was averaging per game coming into this one?

49.4

Totals from Lehigh game:
Yards from RB's: 20
Yards from Johnson: 71
Total: 91

Georgetown's leading rusher on the season has 114 yards total.

[LehighU11]

Great to see the stands full at Columbia. I remember games over there years ago with more Lehigh people than those in powder blue. Of course, the Lions are the new "thing" that has caught many by surprise and hence the interest and curiosity. I hope they keep it up, but will it be sustained? Everyone likes a winner.

Hopefully, their recent success continues beyond 2017 unlike their very few winning seasons over the past 60 years. For many years now, Columbia treats fans to University-funded tailgates with free beer and hotdogs at all home games. With free beer and a winning football team, I'm hopeful that today's fine showing will become more common.

Strange times we live in where Columbia is 5-0 and draws 13,000, while Lehigh is 2-5 and draws 4,500-6,000 every home game. Maybe free Natty Light for students on the north field of Goodman will boost the crowds xdrunkyx

[Go Green]

Great to see the stands full at Columbia. I remember games over there years ago with more Lehigh people than those in powder blue. Of course, the Lions are the new "thing" that has caught many by surprise and hence the interest and curiosity. I hope they keep it up, but will it be sustained? Everyone likes a winner.

It was Columbia's homecoming. On nice days (and today was one of them), they usually draw over 10K for homecoming. They throw a great homecoming experience.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It was Columbia's homecoming. On nice days (and today was one of them), they usually draw over 10K for homecoming. They throw a great homecoming experience.

They also sell booze.

[Lehigh'98]

They also sell booze.

I was at Montclair States (d3) homecoming today. Sadly, it was a better gameday experience than any PL game besides L-L. They had a bunch of stuff for kids and families to get the community out. I was pleasantly suprised. Wondering why it's so hard for PL teams to have something like this.

[CHIP72]

I was at Montclair States (d3) homecoming today. Sadly, it was a better gameday experience than any PL game besides L-L. They had a bunch of stuff for kids and families to get the community out. I was pleasantly suprised. Wondering why it's so hard for PL teams to have something like this.

At most DI-AA/FCS games and pretty much all D2, D3, and NAIA games, I think it would make sense for teams/conferences to take a page from minor league baseball's playbook and have more game break activities to entertain the fans. Quite frankly, most people don't go to minor league baseball games for the games themselves; they go because it is an enjoyable family outing with amusing and harmless entertainment.

[Lehigh'98]

At most DI-AA/FCS games and pretty much all D2, D3, and NAIA games, I think it would make sense for teams/conferences to take a page from minor league baseball's playbook and have more game break activities to entertain the fans. Quite frankly, most people don't go to minor league baseball games for the games themselves; they go because it is an enjoyable family outing with amusing and harmless entertainment.

Exactly. Families are always looking for things to do with kids. Give them a reason to bring the little ones and they will come. Then re-engage the students and you are looking at better crowds. These are basic things that are being ignored by the PL. Few wins wouldn't hurt either.

[Pards Rule]

Attendance figures for 10/14
4,438 at Lehigh vs. Georgetown
2,622 at Colgate vs. Fordham

13,081 at Columbia vs. Penn
10,025 at Harvard vs. Lafayette
8,709 at Yale vs. Holy Cross
4,202 at Cornell vs. Bucknell

LU, curious which of these were HC games OR were affected by student break. I never recall home games being scheduled during breaks??

[LehighU11]

LU, curious which of these were HC games OR were affected by student break. I never recall home games being scheduled during breaks??

Lehigh has pacing break this weekend, so that affected the crowd. This is nothing new, as I recall a number of home games during pacing break over the past decade. Tough to avoid in years when LU has 6 home games like 2017.

Colgate's break was last weekend. Columbia had homecoming. Harvard had community day, allowing all residents of Allston, Brighton, and Cambridge to attend for free. Nothing special for Yale or Cornell.