AGS Top 25 - How They Fared Week 5 2016

[superman7515]

Most of Week 5 is in the books, but I have to get to bed, so I'll finish up the loose ends and ratings tomorrow.

I have to get up at 4 am East Coast Bias time (3 1/2 hours from now) to run a 5k as a fundraiser for Special Olympics. We'll be shutting down the Delaware Memorial Bridge as a group of firefighters, EMTs, and police officers race from New Jersey to Delaware (because who the hell ever races to get into New Jersey?) to raise funds for the athletes. It doesn't look that high when you're driving, but it's 174 feet up, so my legs are already regretting this, haha. I figure as long as I can make it to the top, I can roll down the other side if I have to.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/cecd69ccbc9222255d3499a4a48a9e92ba6915d3/c=153-0-2547-1800&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2017/02/25/Wilmington/Wilmington/636236449197701268-031207.Del-Memo-Bridge8860.JPG

If any of you fellas are of the giving type, here's my fundraiser link (I'm in 7th place), but obviously there's no reason to feel obligated:
https://www.classy.org/fundraise?fcid=1046144


Anyway, on to the football...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lph2tW08YAVKYBV6K5jSeJRa513bkQxgMtJHV5_yDHE/edit?usp=sharing

Please pay attention to your ballots. I'd like to think it was an accident that someone voted for 0-4 Lafayette last week and not some slap nuts Holy Cross fan thinking they would win and trying to inflate their case. I'll catch up when I get back tomorrow, so

[JSUSoutherner]

Youngstown State didn't play South Dakota.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Most of Week 5 is in the books, but I have to get to bed, so I'll finish up the loose ends and ratings tomorrow.

I have to get up at 4 am East Coast Bias time (3 1/2 hours from now) to run a 5k as a fundraiser for Special Olympics. We'll be shutting down the Delaware Memorial Bridge as a group of firefighters, EMTs, and police officers race from New Jersey to Delaware (because who the hell ever races to get into New Jersey?) to raise funds for the athletes. It doesn't look that high when you're driving, but it's 174 feet up, so my legs are already regretting this, haha. I figure as long as I can make it to the top, I can roll down the other side if I have to.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/cecd69ccbc9222255d3499a4a48a9e92ba6915d3/c=153-0-2547-1800&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2017/02/25/Wilmington/Wilmington/636236449197701268-031207.Del-Memo-Bridge8860.JPG

If any of you fellas are of the giving type, here's my fundraiser link (I'm in 7th place), but obviously there's no reason to feel obligated:
https://www.classy.org/fundraise?fcid=1046144


Anyway, on to the football...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lph2tW08YAVKYBV6K5jSeJRa513bkQxgMtJHV5_yDHE/edit?usp=sharing

Please pay attention to your ballots. I'd like to think it was an accident that someone voted for 0-4 Lafayette last week and not some slap nuts Holy Cross fan thinking they would win and trying to inflate their case. I'll catch up when I get back tomorrow, so

Good luck man. I threw in on the deal and I bet you will smash that goal.

[Thumper 76]

Youngstown State didn't play South Dakota.

I don’t think YSU played anybody this weekend xcoffeex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jmu007]

Poll this morning is going to be another tough one.

[TheRevSFA]

Good luck man. I threw in on the deal and I bet you will smash that goal.

Threw in and took the kill shot on the goal.

Now let's get more donations in there

[RootinFerDukes]

No one in the receiving votes category won this week really. I guess no one wants to be ranked.

[ElCid]

Everyone needs to make sure they get their South Dakota and South Dakota State picks correct in the poll. Could be easy to mix them up. Damn Dakotas.

[dbackjon]

No one in the receiving votes category won this week really. I guess no one wants to be ranked.
NAU

[WestCoastAggie]

Good luck Supe!

[WestCoastAggie]

Questions: Does SHSU fall out of the top 10?

Does UCA enter the top 10?

Where will you all rank Weber State?

What's going on in the OVC?

Other thoughts:

The state of North Carolina has 3 teams that should be ranked (A&T, Elon, and WCU). NCCU should be creeping into some of your ORV this week.

They have a conference win streak that has been there since 2015. They've won 18 straight MEAC games.

[UNH72Plus]

Most of Week 5 is in the books, but I have to get to bed, so I'll finish up the loose ends and ratings tomorrow.

I have to get up at 4 am East Coast Bias time (3 1/2 hours from now) to run a 5k as a fundraiser for Special Olympics. We'll be shutting down the Delaware Memorial Bridge as a group of firefighters, EMTs, and police officers race from New Jersey to Delaware (because who the hell ever races to get into New Jersey?) to raise funds for the athletes. It doesn't look that high when you're driving, but it's 174 feet up, so my legs are already regretting this, haha. I figure as long as I can make it to the top, I can roll down the other side if I have to.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/cecd69ccbc9222255d3499a4a48a9e92ba6915d3/c=153-0-2547-1800&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2017/02/25/Wilmington/Wilmington/636236449197701268-031207.Del-Memo-Bridge8860.JPG

If any of you fellas are of the giving type, here's my fundraiser link (I'm in 7th place), but obviously there's no reason to feel obligated:
https://www.classy.org/fundraise?fcid=1046144


Anyway, on to the football...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lph2tW08YAVKYBV6K5jSeJRa513bkQxgMtJHV5_yDHE/edit?usp=sharing

Please pay attention to your ballots. I'd like to think it was an accident that someone voted for 0-4 Lafayette last week and not some slap nuts Holy Cross fan thinking they would win and trying to inflate their case. I'll catch up when I get back tomorrow, so


As the uncle of two young men with Down Syndrome who have competed in the Special Olympics I want to thank you for your efforts. It's a great organization that means a lot to the competitors, the families, and friends.

[KPSUL]

Poll this morning is going to be another tough one.

Just pick the top 25 team and then rank them top to bottom. Simple!

Seriously, After a weekend like this in the first half of the season I start by using the ESPN scores and teams tabs as reference to produce a draft Top 25. I then look at Supe's spreadsheet, and my own previous ranking as a reality check, and also to ensure I've covered all the teams that may have had a bye week.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Questions: Does SHSU fall out of the top 10?

Does UCA enter the top 10?

Where will you all rank Weber State?

What's going on in the OVC?

Other thoughts:

The state of North Carolina has 3 teams that should be ranked (A&T, Elon, and WCU). NCCU should be creeping into some of your ORV this week.

They have a conference win streak that has been there since 2015. They've won 18 straight MEAC games.


I have A&T, Elon and WCU all in my poll this week.

UCA is in my top 10
Weber made a big jump in mine.
IIRC, I put Sam just out of the top 10 or at 10..

[veinup]

donated. good luck out there dude. xthumbsupx

[WileECoyote06]

Questions: Does SHSU fall out of the top 10?

Does UCA enter the top 10?

Where will you all rank Weber State?

What's going on in the OVC?

Other thoughts:

The state of North Carolina has 3 teams that should be ranked (A&T, Elon, and WCU). NCCU should be creeping into some of your ORV this week.

They have a conference win streak that has been there since 2015. They've won 18 straight MEAC games.

Props to the NC FCS schools. I hope we see a week where four are ranked.

NCCU is not winning pretty; but they keep on winning. The offense will improve with time. If we get past Howard, I think we're going to break the all-time conference game win streak.

[TheKingpin28]

No one wants to be number 1 this week IHMO.

Once again, this poll is going to be way too much fun. Going to need to crack open a cold one for this.

[IBleedYellow]

Kill it, Supe.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

NAUThey weren't in the "others receiving votes" section

[cx500d]

Everyone needs to make sure they get their South Dakota and South Dakota State picks correct in the poll. Could be easy to mix them up. Damn Dakotas.


No, its easy to keep them apart, one of them is located in ****ty tiny town in the middle of nowhere, and the other is located in a ..... oh dammit, I see your point.

[TheKingpin28]

After about 7/8 this is just a pain in the ass.

[POD Knows]

Questions: Does SHSU fall out of the top 10?

Does UCA enter the top 10?

Where will you all rank Weber State?

What's going on in the OVC?

Other thoughts:

The state of North Carolina has 3 teams that should be ranked (A&T, Elon, and WCU). NCCU should be creeping into some of your ORV this week.

They have a conference win streak that has been there since 2015. They've won 18 straight MEAC games.

No
Yes
Teens
They suck
I have all three of those NC teams in my top 25 poll

[WileECoyote06]

No one wants to be number 1 this week IHMO.

Once again, this poll is going to be way too much fun. Going to need to crack open a cold one for this.

until JMU loses, they get the benefit of the doubt to me. xdontknowx

[TheRevSFA]

No
Yes
Teens
They suck
I have all three of those NC teams in my top 25 poll

Precisely

[POD Knows]

until JMU loses, they get the benefit of the doubt to me. xdontknowxYep

[JSUSoutherner]

Questions: Does SHSU fall out of the top 10?

Does UCA enter the top 10?

Where will you all rank Weber State?

What's going on in the OVC?

Other thoughts:

The state of North Carolina has 3 teams that should be ranked (A&T, Elon, and WCU). NCCU should be creeping into some of your ORV this week.

They have a conference win streak that has been there since 2015. They've won 18 straight MEAC games.

Healy is a freaking magician and APSU is legit. They are in my poll this week. UTM will probably keep a spot as well. TSU is out.

[TheKingpin28]

until JMU loses, they get the benefit of the doubt to me. xdontknowx

That is lazy voting. Honestly, YSU dominated SDSU but SDSU looks like a paper tiger until they get their act together. So, no team is worthy of that #1 team. I see 3 #2s and then 3 or 4 other teams that could compete on AGS.

[TheKingpin28]

Sam is sitting just outside of my top 10, but UCA just crept in.

[RootinFerDukes]

They weren't in the "others receiving votes" section

I consider “receiving votes” to be anyone ranked #26 or lower. It’s that way in fbs polls. A lot of 26th and worse ranked teams lost. Not many are vying to move into the rankings so far.

[katss07]

Sam doesn't deserve to be top 10. If it was up to me they would be at about 13.

Is there any way the Kats could gain a first round bye after last night?

[MR. CHICKEN]

That is lazy voting. Honestly, YSU dominated SDSU but SDSU looks like a paper tiger until they get their act together. So, no team is worthy of that #1 team. I see 3 #2s and then 3 or 4 other teams that could compete on AGS.

....MADISON WON...ON DUH ROAD....IN WINDY CORNDITIONS.....GOOD TEAMS TAKE "BEST SHOTS".....AN' WIN.......AH REMEMBERAH HOW EVERAH-ONE.........WOOD COMPLAIN 'BOUT MARGIN O' VICTORY...INFLUENCIN' POLLS......WELL DON'T CRY....WHEN SOMEBODAH HANGS 80.....ON FLUB-UH-DUB A&M......SOMEBODAH GOTTAH BE #ONE......SO.......................BRAWK!

[RootinFerDukes]

until JMU loses, they get the benefit of the doubt to me. xdontknowx

We’ve given every past champion the benefit of the doubt as long as they keep winning. Ndsu got that benefit for the last five years.

[TheKingpin28]

....MADISON WON...ON DUH ROAD....IN WINDY CORNDITIONS.....GOOD TEAMS TAKE "BEST SHOTS".....AN' WIN.......AH REMEMBERAH HOW EVERAH-ONE.........WOOD COMPLAIN 'BOUT MARGIN O' VICTORY...INFLUENCIN' POLLS......WELL DON'T CRY....WHEN SOMEBODAH HANGS 80.....ON FLUB-UH-DUB A&M......SOMEBODAH GOTTAH BE #ONE......SO.....................................B RAWK!

One could look at the Maine VS JMU at home and say the same thing. Maine literally could not get anything going, yet their defense kept them in the game. Again, there is no true #1 right now, just a few #2s and some other teams who could compete given the right circumstances.

[MR. CHICKEN]

One could look at the Maine VS JMU at home and say the same thing. Maine literally could not get anything going, yet their defense kept them in the game. Again, there is no true #1 right now, just a few #2s and some other teams who could compete given the right circumstances.

....WELL.....WHAA WASTE EVER-ONES TIME.....POLLING......WHEN TRUE NUMBER UNO......ISN'T NAMED TIL JANUARY........xsighx...........DOODLE-DOO!

[RootinFerDukes]

....MADISON WON...ON DUH ROAD....IN WINDY CORNDITIONS.....GOOD TEAMS TAKE "BEST SHOTS".....AN' WIN.......AH REMEMBERAH HOW EVERAH-ONE.........WOOD COMPLAIN 'BOUT MARGIN O' VICTORY...INFLUENCIN' POLLS......WELL DON'T CRY....WHEN SOMEBODAH HANGS 80.....ON FLUB-UH-DUB A&M......SOMEBODAH GOTTAH BE #ONE......SO.......................BRAWK!

We’re not far removed from AGS bitching and moaning that we dropped 84 on Rhode Island. We just can’t win when we’re not bison.

[TheKingpin28]

We’re not far removed from AGS bitching and moaning that we dropped 84 on Rhode Island. We just can’t win when we’re not bison.

You realize NDSU dropped 72 on MVSU, 40 on EWU, 56 on RMU and gave up 20 points, 13 of which were when 3rd stringers were in?

I still have JMU over NDSU, but you JMU fans are just as bad as SHSU fans. I made a simple point that no team is worthy of the #1 spot due to how they have preformed and then the CAA fans, as usual, loses their **** and cry foul.

[kalm]

That is lazy voting. Honestly, YSU dominated SDSU but SDSU looks like a paper tiger until they get their act together. So, no team is worthy of that #1 team. I see 3 #2s and then 3 or 4 other teams that could compete on AGS.

Disagree. JMU and NDSU are both worthy. If USD wouldn't have started so far down the ranking, they would be as well. JSU is a close second right now thief current schedule and improving offense although they'll suffer as a result of the OVC.

Regarding penalizing for close wins...EWU came from behind in 6 or 7 games in 2010 and had very few blow outs. We got the 5 seed which seemed about right.

[TheKingpin28]

Disagree. JMU and NDSU are both worthy. If USD wouldn't have started so far down the ranking, they would be as well. JSU is a close second right now thief current schedule and improving offense although they'll suffer as a result of the OVC.

Regarding penalizing for close wins...EWU came from behind in 6 or 7 games in 2010 and had very few blow outs. We got the 5 seed which seemed about right.

#1 implies they are the pinnacle of their respective field, and right now, after seeing how NDSU played against MSU and JMU vs UD, I just do not see it. If SDSU was not so hot and cold, YSU would have a legitimate argument for it. The downside about USeD is that their UND win is non-existent at this point, and letting WIU back into that game, shows that their defense has issues and if Streveler goes down, USeD will drop harder than a Kendrick Lamar album.

The thing is NDSU, not destroying MSU looks bad considering UND's only win of the season is against MSU and MSU is worse than bad.

[kalm]

#1 implies they are the pinnacle of their respective field, and right now, after seeing how NDSU played against MSU and JMU vs UD, I just do not see it. If SDSU was not so hot and cold, YSU would have a legitimate argument for it. The downside about USeD is that their UND win is non-existent at this point, and letting WIU back into that game, shows that their defense has issues and if Streveler goes down, USeD will drop harder than a Kendrick Lamar album.

The thing is NDSU, not destroying MSU looks bad considering UND's only win of the season is against MSU and MSU is worse than bad.

Disagree again. Both NDSU and JMU are at the pinnacle. Undefeated with great wins. Not every performance needs to be sheer domination and not everyone will be with a target on your back but when you do show sheer domination against a ranked EWU or an ECU on the road and keep winning you're not only solid but worthy of a top ranking.

Same thing goes for USD. WIU is very solid on both sides of the ball. Solid enough to beat a transitioning CCU and NAU both on the road. So when USD goes into Macomb and wins, it's damn impressive regardless if they let a really good team back into the game late. It validates what they've done leading up to this and a high ranking. UND had twice as many starters in that game as they do now. Are they down? Of course but that was still domination. Is BGU a bad FBS team? Sure, but you're still giving up 22 scholarships against an opponent with better facilities and on the road. Downplaying FBS wins against weak FBS opponents gets WAY over-used (not that you're doing that here).

[WestCoastAggie]

We’ve given every past champion the benefit of the doubt as long as they keep winning. Ndsu got that benefit for the last five years.

True. I don't see anyone taking the #1 spot from the dukes, for now.

[TheKingpin28]

Disagree again. Both NDSU and JMU are at the pinnacle. Undefeated with great wins. Not every performance needs to be sheer domination and not everyone will be with a target on your back but when you do show sheer domination against a ranked EWU or an ECU on the road and keep winning you're not only solid but worthy of a top ranking.

Same thing goes for USD. WIU is very solid on both sides of the ball. Solid enough to beat a transitioning CCU and NAU both on the road. So when USD goes into Macomb and wins, it's damn impressive regardless if they let a really good team back into the game late. It validates what they've done leading up to this and a high ranking. UND had twice as many starters in that game as they do now. Are they down? Of course but that was still domination. Is BGU a bad FBS team? Sure, but you're still giving up 22 scholarships against an opponent with better facilities and on the road. Downplaying FBS wins against weak FBS opponents gets WAY over-used (not that you're doing that here).

I guess we will have to agree to disagree but that is why I am "Nothing but an emotional fair weather fan." xnodx

[IBleedYellow]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree but that is why I am "Nothing but an emotional fair weather fan." xnodxKalm is much more level headed than you on this subject.

You're expecting 100% for an entire season....which isn't happening. Not even NDSU in 2013 was 100% perfect. So if that's what you're expecting - which your comments have implied lately - you will be waiting 10 or 15 years.

Sorry pal.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[aceinthehole]

Why no love for Saint Francis?

Defending NEC champs, lost by just 10 at Villanova last year in the playoffs in a tightly played affair.

Red Flash are 3-1 this season with a win over Liberty (last ranked at #22 in the STATS FCS poll). Lost by just 2 vs. Towson.

SFU is 10-3 vs. NEC opponent since 2015. Certainly this deserves consideration given by pollsters to PL (Fordham, Holy Cross) or Ivy (Harvard, Princeton) over this season.

[TheKingpin28]

Kalm is much more level headed than you on this subject.

You're expecting 100% for an entire season....which isn't happening. Not even NDSU in 2013 was 100% perfect. So if that's what you're expecting - which your comments have implied lately - you will be waiting 10 or 15 years.

Sorry pal.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

That is not even close to what I am saying. You are saying, that based off of MSU game, NDSU would have an argument for #1. Look at what UND did to MSU. There is no way, IMO, NDSU is #1. #2, yeah there is an argument to be made. JMU, based off of what I have seen, either UD and Maine are good, or Schor was running for his life and there is issues on that o-line. The reason why JMU was #1 last year was there were no significant flaws in their game. 2015, Stick looked like the next Brock Jensen and kept the Bison together after it looked like Carson was going to be done for the season. 2014, Carson Wentz showed up and made the offense pick up the slack where the defense was recovering from the 2013 season. Etc, etc...

2017, no team looks like they have their game figured out as of right now. That is how I see it, and I know I am not the only one who views it this way.

[TheKingpin28]

Why no love for Saint Francis?

Defending NEC champs, lost by just 10 at Villanova last year in the playoffs in a tightly played affair.

Red Flash are 3-1 this season with a win over Liberty (last ranked at #22 in the STATS FCS poll). Lost by just 2 vs. Towson.

SFU is 10-3 vs. NEC opponent since 2015. Certainly this deserves consideration given by pollsters to PL (Fordham, Holy Cross) or Ivy (Harvard, Princeton) over this season.

1st off, last year does not count.

2nd, Losing to Towson is bad. Towson is awful this year. Liberty also almost loss to ISUb which is another bad team. Beating Baylor is not a good win since Baylor might be the worst P5 team in the FBS. Considering Liberty is your toughest team on your schedule, do not expect to see any love any time soon.

[Catbooster]

#1 implies they are the pinnacle of their respective field, and right now, after seeing how NDSU played against MSU and JMU vs UD, I just do not see it. If SDSU was not so hot and cold, YSU would have a legitimate argument for it. The downside about USeD is that their UND win is non-existent at this point, and letting WIU back into that game, shows that their defense has issues and if Streveler goes down, USeD will drop harder than a Kendrick Lamar album.

The thing is NDSU, not destroying MSU looks bad considering UND's only win of the season is against MSU and MSU is worse than bad.

Number one ranking is not based on meeting some criteria you've established. It means they are the best team in your opinion. Quit worrying about whether they are the most dominant team they could be. Just figure out who would beat who in your opinion and give the top one your #1 ranking.

[aceinthehole]

1st off, last year does not count.

2nd, Losing to Towson is bad. Towson is awful this year. Liberty also almost loss to ISUb which is another bad team. Beating Baylor is not a good win since Baylor might be the worst P5 team in the FBS. Considering Liberty is your toughest team on your schedule, do not expect to see any love any time soon.

the real answer is simple - Double standards. We like some schools/conferences and don't like others. It is that plain and simple and AGS is full of it.

What was the excuse for the votes for Fordham (#23 - Preseason poll), Colgate (#21 - week 1 poll), Lehigh (#17 - week 1 poll), Holy Cross (#23 - week 4 poll) this season?

Can someone explain this?

SFU is #30 (50 points) in AGS week 3 poll, and by week 4 they drop out - and are replaced by 3 Ivy League teams:

Princeton (#30 / 34 points)
Penn (#36 / 25 points)
Yale (#39 / 15 points)

Penn gets votes for beating Ohio Dominican and Lehigh? Really .. well why not just consider Wagner too? When does the madness stop?

The consideration and "benefit" give to Patriot and Ivy League teams is a joke. The AGS poll is just as biased for certain schools/conferences as the Coaches poll.

[GoBlueHens83]

Sagarin puts SFU 168. For comparison, Delaware is at 154.

I don't have either one in my Top 25.

But then again, I could be biased against my own team.

[TheKingpin28]

Double standards. What was the excuse for the votes for Fordham (#23 - Preseason poll), Colgate (#21 - week 1 poll), Lehigh (#17 - week 1 poll), Holy Cross (#23 - week 4 poll) this season?

Can someone explain this?
SFU is #30 (50 points) in AGS week 3 poll, and by week 4 they drop out - and are replaced by 3 Ivy League teams:

Princeton (#30 / 34 points)
Penn (#36 / 25 points)
Yale (#39 / 15 points)

The consideration and "benefit" give to Patriot and Ivy League teams is a joke. The AGS poll is just biased for certain schools as the Coaches poll.


Preseason and Week 1 polls are a crap shoot and everyone knows that. No one should have voted for Holy Cross, but people believe the UNH game was not a fluke, turns out it was. SFU lost to Towson. How much needs to be said by this. The one team outside of Liberty to prove their case, and they lose to a bottom 3 CAA team. No love is going to be given. Look at what happened to UND for a prime example. Anyone who votes for Patriot or Ivy league teams this year as of right now, should have their voting rights revoked. Again, SFU has ZERO reason to garner votes, zero! There is no bias in this poll. Anyone who thinks the AGS poll is "biased" needs to start voting then. I do not know anyone who would argue that the poll is biased, outside of SHSU fans, but that is a whole different beast.

[kalm]

TheKingpin is the Clenz of the north and quite frankly I enjoy the cynicism.

[TheKingpin28]

Sagarin puts SFU 168. For comparison, Delaware is at 154.

I don't have either one in my Top 25.

But then again, I could be biased against my own team.

The difference is, Delaware has played competition. I am not happy with my #24 and #25 spots, but there was more reason for UD to be there than SFU.

[TheKingpin28]

TheKingpin is the Clenz of the north and quite frankly I enjoy the cynicism.

Read the moniker. :D

Clenz did give me my 7K post name and BF02 and the Sphere of Influence told me it is sticking so I guess I am Clenz Jr then?

[GoBlueHens83]

The difference is, Delaware has played competition. I am not happy with my #24 and #25 spots, but there was more reason for UD to be there than SFU.

Agreed.

I just felt like Delaware needed to beat a good team to get my vote. Not just be in a close game with a good team.

[TheKingpin28]

Agreed.

I just felt like Delaware needed to beat a good team to get my vote. Not just be in a close game with a good team.

The sad thing is, I do not think there are 25 teams worthy of vote but looking at how people fared, Delaware, by virtue of everyone else sucking horribly this week, might have a case to have people voting for them.

[ElCid]

1st off, last year does not count.

2nd, Losing to Towson is bad. Towson is awful this year. Liberty also almost loss to ISUb which is another bad team. Beating Baylor is not a good win since Baylor might be the worst P5 team in the FBS. Considering Liberty is your toughest team on your schedule, do not expect to see any love any time soon.

Got to disagree about the P5 thing. Any P5 win is a good win, period. And I can think of quite a few P5 teams that are worse. I bet you could if you really tried. Like maybe Kansas. We will know in a few weeks for sure. Rutgers is pretty horrific as well. It is still a good win by STFU over Liberty. I will not diminish that for them. Towson may not be real good, but awful is bit strong. For comparison, VMI is awful. Towson may just be bad.xlolx

[TheKingpin28]

Hell you want to know how "biased" I am against the CAA, is I have more than 6 teams of theirs in my poll.

[ElCid]

Hell you want to know how "biased" I am against the CAA, is I have more than 6 teams of theirs in my poll.

Yeah, me too, there is a crap load of them boogers in there.

[KPSUL]

One could look at the Maine VS JMU at home and say the same thing. Maine literally could not get anything going, yet their defense kept them in the game. Again, there is no true #1 right now, just a few #2s and some other teams who could compete given the right circumstances.

Keep saying the same thing over and over again, it's bound to stick eventually.

[TheKingpin28]

Yeah, me too, there is a crap load of them boogers in there.

The Valley and CAA constitute over half my poll. The thing is, I only think they have a few solid teams, it just the rest of the FCS does not want to step up so they, by virtue of having similar SOSs and beating each other, get the nod over other teams. I see the same thing happening with the Valley. If teams go 4-4 and yet end up at 7-5 or 8-4, they will get the votes and entrance to the playoffs say over the Big Sky (which might get 1-2 teams total), the Southland (SHSU and UCA), the SoCon (3-4) and the rest getting 1 bid teams.

Right now, if the season were to end, I would say this is how it breaks out

Big Sky: 1-2
Big South: 1
CAA: 7-8
MVFC: 6
NEC: 1
OVC: 1
PL: 1
PFL: 1
SoCon: 3-4
Southland: 2

24-27 teams right now have potential for a playoff spot based off of the strength of the leagues. I however, do not think there are 25 teams worthy of a playoff spot. Give it about 2-3 more weeks and it should be easier.

[GoBlueHens83]

Got to disagree about the P5 thing. Any P5 win is a good win, period. And I can think of quite a few P5 teams that are worse. I bet you could if you really tried. Like maybe Kansas. We will know in a few weeks for sure. Rutgers is pretty horrific as well. It is still a good win by STFU over Liberty. I will not diminish that for them. Towson may not be real good, but awful is bit strong. For comparison, VMI is awful. Towson may just be bad.xlolx

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/boxscore.asp?gamecode=201709020221&home=221&vis=147&final=true

Just check out the stats from Towson's game against 0-4 Morgan State. Awful is pretty fitting.

[ElCid]

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/boxscore.asp?gamecode=201709020221&home=221&vis=147&final=true

Just check out the stats from Towson's game against 0-4 Morgan State. Awful is pretty fitting.

Well at least they won. xlolx But those are pretty bad though.

[aceinthehole]

Sagarin puts SFU 168. For comparison, Delaware is at 154.

I don't have either one in my Top 25.

But then again, I could be biased against my own team.

I just want someone to explain their PL and Ivy votes every week, while NEC teams are constantly blackballed regardless of the results. There is always a new excuse or comparison to make as to why the NEC team just doesn't stack up.

The bias against the NEC is out there and everyone know it. What makes it worse is undeserved "respect" and deference given to PL and Ivy teams. For example ...


When is the last time an Patriot League team beat the Blue Hens at Delaware Stadium?
Sacred Heart did it in 2014 (UD beat Colgate that same season). Albany (while a member of the NEC) won at UD in 2006; the previous season UD beat both Lehigh and Holy Cross. Delaware hasn't lost to a Patriot League team since 1999, and in that time the Blue Hens have lost to 2 NEC teams!

How many games vs ranked teams has the Ivy League won since 2010?
Bryant, CCSU, Sacred Heart, SFU, and Wagner have beat at least 1 nationally-ranked teams in that time. Duquesne and Robert Morris are the only current NEC member that has not beat a ranked team since 2010.

How many conferences can say that 5 different teams (of 7) all have a nationally-ranked win in the last 7 seasons?

[GoBlueHens83]

Well at least they won. xlolx But those are pretty bad though.

Those passing stats reminded me of the last few years of watching Delaware.

[POD Knows]

If SDSU would have had a decent win over YSU, I might have moved them into the #2 slot in front of NDSU, but they didn't, so I didn't. NDSU was not impressive against MSU but still pounded them pretty bad. All the teams have holes and weaknesses and the Bison have theirs.

[TheKingpin28]

Well at least they won. xlolx But those are pretty bad though.

So does awful still work? :D

[TheKingpin28]

Those passing stats reminded me of the last few years of watching Delaware.

Wait, you guys did not like Brock The Rock?

[GoBlueHens83]

I just want someone to explain their PL and Ivy votes every week, while NEC teams are constantly blackballed regardless of the results. There is always a new excuse or comparison to make as to why the NEC team just doesn't stack up.

The bias against the NEC is out there and everyone know it. What makes it worse is undeserved "respect" and deference given to PL and Ivy teams. For example ...


When is the last time an Patriot League team beat the Blue Hens at Delaware Stadium?
Sacred Heart did it in 2014 (UD beat Colgate that same season). Albany (while a member of the NEC) won at UD in 2006; the previous season UD beat both Lehigh and Holy Cross. Delaware hasn't lost to a Patriot League team since 1999, and in that time the Blue Hens have lost to 2 NEC teams!

How many games vs ranked teams has the Ivy League won since 2010?
Bryant, CCSU, Sacred Heart, SFU, and Wagner have beat at least 1 nationally-ranked teams in that time. Duquesne and Robert Morris are the only current NEC member that has not beat a ranked team since 2010.

How many conferences can say that 5 different teams (of 7) all have a nationally-ranked win in the last 7 seasons?

Just last year I voted for Sacred Heart. I have voted for plenty of NEC teams in the past.

It's not bias in this case, SFU just didn't make the cut for my, and likely most other voters, Top 25.

I have no Patriot teams in my Top 25 either.

[PantherRob82]

Why no love for Saint Francis?

Defending NEC champs, lost by just 10 at Villanova last year in the playoffs in a tightly played affair.

Red Flash are 3-1 this season with a win over Liberty (last ranked at #22 in the STATS FCS poll). Lost by just 2 vs. Towson.

SFU is 10-3 vs. NEC opponent since 2015. Certainly this deserves consideration given by pollsters to PL (Fordham, Holy Cross) or Ivy (Harvard, Princeton) over this season.

Towson and Liberty are not good teams. SFU is worth consideration, but not a sure thing.

[cx500d]

Hell you want to know how "biased" I am against the CAA, is I have more than 6 teams of theirs in my poll.


If Maine would ever play another game they could sneak back in if they win....

[TheKingpin28]

If Maine would ever play another game they could sneak back in if they win....

Yep. That is why they fell out for me. I just need to see that something more than a domination against Bryant, a 1 point loss to UNH, and a solid game against JMU. If they beat Nova, they go back in and possibly into that top 20 spot. Having the UCF game cancelled really hurts them a lot.

[RootinFerDukes]

I’ll just say, that I personally don’t believe in “punishing” any team because they won a football game. I don’t give a hoot if it was by one point and you had to come from behind at the last second. A win is a win.
Additionally, I don’t believe in considering ranking a team for their “moral victories”. You still lost.
In my mind, it really is that black and white.

[clenz]

TheKingpin is the Clenz of the north and quite frankly I enjoy the cynicism.

**** that.

Never, and I mean never, compare him to me. Ever ****ing again

There is one me. That’s ****ing it. He doesn’t have **** on me in any aspect

[clenz]

Read the moniker. 😀

Clenz did give me my 7K post name and BF02 and the Sphere of Influence told me it is sticking so I guess I am Clenz Jr then?

I’m on Tapatalk so I don’t know what your 7k is. If it’s Widowmaker. Well....BF02 and I have some news for you.

Get the **** outta here with clenz jr.

You’d have been put up for adoption before conception was completed.

[TheKingpin28]

**** that.

Never, and I mean never, compare him to me. Ever ****ing again

There is one me. That’s ****ing it. He doesn’t have **** on me in any aspect

Height? Eye Colour? Length of hair?

I thought we had something brewing here and then you just cut me low like that. That hurts.

[TheKingpin28]

I’m on Tapatalk so I don’t know what your 7k is. If it’s Widowmaker. Well....BF02 and I have some news for you.

You guys kept calling me that, and I still do not know why that is. My moniker is "Nothing but an emotional fair weather fan."

[clenz]

Height? Eye Colour? Length of hair?

I thought we had something brewing here and then you just cut me low like that. That hurts.

I’m a solid 5 inches taller than you, IIRC.

Hair length? Dgaf.
Eye color? Nope. My eye doctor would verify my true eye color is quite unique.


Logic and reasoning? Nope



There can be only one.

[PantherRob82]

I’ll just say, that I personally don’t believe in “punishing” any team because they won a football game. I don’t give a hoot if it was by one point and you had to come from behind at the last second. A win is a win.
Additionally, I don’t believe in considering ranking a team for their “moral victories”. You still lost.
In my mind, it really is that black and white.

It's a poll of the best 25 teams in the country, not the best 25 records. You can drop with a win and prove yourself in a loss. xcoffeex

[KPSUL]

I just want someone to explain their PL and Ivy votes every week, while NEC teams are constantly blackballed regardless of the results. There is always a new excuse or comparison to make as to why the NEC team just doesn't stack up.

The bias against the NEC is out there and everyone know it. What makes it worse is undeserved "respect" and deference given to PL and Ivy teams. For example ...


When is the last time an Patriot League team beat the Blue Hens at Delaware Stadium?
Sacred Heart did it in 2014 (UD beat Colgate that same season). Albany (while a member of the NEC) won at UD in 2006; the previous season UD beat both Lehigh and Holy Cross. Delaware hasn't lost to a Patriot League team since 1999, and in that time the Blue Hens have lost to 2 NEC teams!

How many games vs ranked teams has the Ivy League won since 2010?
Bryant, CCSU, Sacred Heart, SFU, and Wagner have beat at least 1 nationally-ranked teams in that time. Duquesne and Robert Morris are the only current NEC member that has not beat a ranked team since 2010.

How many conferences can say that 5 different teams (of 7) all have a nationally-ranked win in the last 7 seasons?

It would be way to time-consuming to do that research for the CAA or MVFC, but I have no doubt that both conferences have dozens of wins over nationally ranked teams, NDSU alone has to have more than 25 over the past seven - virtually ever team they beat in the playoffs was nationally ranked. I think they have 2-3 wins in that time period over FBS ranked teams.

[kalm]

**** that.

Never, and I mean never, compare him to me. Ever ****ing again

There is one me. That’s ****ing it. He doesn’t have **** on me in any aspect

I love you Clenz!

[superman7515]

Good luck man. I threw in on the deal and I bet you will smash that goal.


Threw in and took the kill shot on the goal.

Now let's get more donations in there


Thanks to UAH and Rev for the donations. My first ever 5k, not much on running for fun, but I finished in the top 10 for my age bracket so I can't complain, and we raised some money for the athletes, which realistically is the important part. That's a hell of a hill, haha.

Massey and SOS have been updated, Sagarin is still not updated on his site, he's been running slow all season.

I added some expanded categories, they are hidden in columns P-T so that if you aren't interested, you don't have to see them. They just further break down Home/Away/Neutral record vs FCS only and PF/PA vs FCS only.

[TheKingpin28]

I’m a solid 5 inches taller than you, IIRC.

Hair length? Dgaf.
Eye color? Nope. My eye doctor would verify my true eye color is quite unique.


Logic and reasoning? Nope



There can be only one.

I am no more than 5ft 10in. Perfect height for just about anything. Not too tall and not short at all. My eye colour is perfect as it is hazel. Logic and reasoning, I eat Pagliais and cheer for the Bison.

https://i.imgflip.com/13v807.jpg

[Professor Chaos]

I’ll just say, that I personally don’t believe in “punishing” any team because they won a football game. I don’t give a hoot if it was by one point and you had to come from behind at the last second. A win is a win.
Additionally, I don’t believe in considering ranking a team for their “moral victories”. You still lost.
In my mind, it really is that black and white.
So I guess you like slot voting then. That's not for me but to each his own.

[clenz]

I am no more than 5ft 10in. Perfect height for just about anything. Not too tall and not short at all. My eye colour is perfect as it is hazel. Logic and reasoning, I eat Pagliais and cheer for the Bison.

https://i.imgflip.com/13v807.jpg

Point proven.

[TheKingpin28]

Point proven.

I thought we had something going.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCVR_ajL_Eo

[RootinFerDukes]

It's a poll of the best 25 teams in the country, not the best 25 records. You can drop with a win and prove yourself in a loss. xcoffeex

The funny part is that the best teams are typically the ones winning football games. Unless you're northern iowa of course, who keeps being ranked when they lose.

[RootinFerDukes]

So I guess you like slot voting then. That's not for me but to each his own.

No I like ranking teams that win. They tend to get further into the playoffs.

[PantherRob82]

The funny part is that the best teams are typically the ones winning football games. Unless you're northern iowa of course, who keeps being ranked when they lose.
I haven't voted for them once this season

[PantherRob82]

The funny part is that the best teams are typically the ones winning football games. Unless you're northern iowa of course, who keeps being ranked when they lose.

So I had Montana State ranked below Weber State. Weber won. Should I drop the Bobcats because they performed as expected?

[aceinthehole]

It would be way to time-consuming to do that research for the CAA or MVFC, but I have no doubt that both conferences have dozens of wins over nationally ranked teams, NDSU alone has to have more than 25 over the past seven - virtually ever team they beat in the playoffs was nationally ranked. I think they have 2-3 wins in that time period over FBS ranked teams.

The question doesn’t apply to the CAA or MVFC or SoCon, etc. we know they have the wins and are represented well based on those wins.

Again, the question was raised to compare the NEC performance to the Patriot, Ivy, MEAC, etc.

Like FBS, the FCS has its power conferences. This isn’t debating that the NEC teams should be treated as if they were in the CAA or MVFC.

The issue I continue to raise On this board is the inherent bias, respect, and deference given to PL and Ivy teams. The NEC has to prove itself each week and every team is held accountable for the league’s reputation. But the “glory years” and brand-name recognition of the these elite academic institutions, seems to blind everyone to the actual product on the gridiron.

The NEC has been EQUAL to the Patriot and Ivy League for a while now, yet every September we have these same debates and hype some PL/Ivy teams. How many years have we heard about how great Harvard is? This season Princeton is on the rise. Columbia wins a few games and they are “on the radar” of some posters.

The Holy Cross loss to Lafayette is much worse than a SFU loss to Towson and the win over Liberty is just as good as the win vs UNH. Yet HC got the benifit of the doubt after 2 weeks with a win vs Bucknell.

It has been the same story for the last 5+ years. The NEC fights for respect with results each year while the PL and Ivy are living off past glory.

[RootinFerDukes]

So I had Montana State ranked below Weber State. Weber won. Should I drop the Bobcats because they performed as expected?

Are they a fringe top 25 team and they lost? probably. Can you think of any other borderline ranked teams who deserve to be ranked more at this time?

[Professor Chaos]

No I like ranking teams that win. They tend to get further into the playoffs.
No one won more before December than Sam Houston last year and we saw how well that worked for them.

Teams can move down when they win or move up or stay level when they lose. Not all wins and losses are equal. If you box yourself into to making them that way you better be exceptionally clairvoyant in your preseason poll or your rankings will just get more and more biased as the year moves on.

[GoBlueHens83]

The question doesn’t apply to the CAA or MVFC or SoCon, etc. we know they have the wins and are represented well based on those wins.

Again, the question was raised to compare the NEC performance to the Patriot, Ivy, MEAC, etc.

Like FBS, the FCS has its power conferences. This isn’t debating that the NEC teams should be treated as if they were in the CAA or MVFC.

The issue I continue to raise On this board is the inherent bias, respect, and deference given to PL and Ivy teams. The NEC has to prove itself each week and every team is held accountable for the league’s reputation. But the “glory years” and brand-name recognition of the these elite academic institutions, seems to blind everyone to the actual product on the gridiron.

The NEC has been EQUAL to the Patriot and Ivy League for a while now, yet every September we have these same debates and hype some PL/Ivy teams. How many years have we heard about how great Harvard is? This season Princeton is on the rise. Columbia wins a few games and they are “on the radar” of some posters.

The Holy Cross loss to Lafayette is much worse than a SFU loss to Towson and the win over Liberty is just as good as the win vs UNH. Yet HC got the benifit of the doubt after 2 weeks with a win vs Bucknell.

It has been the same story for the last 5+ years. The NEC fights for respect with results each year while the PL and Ivy are living off past glory.

NEC hasn't won a playoff game since Wagner in 2012.

In that time Colgate beat New Hampshire & James Madison in the 2015 playoffs.
Fordham beat Sacred Heart back to back years 13 & 14.

People give the PL more respect because they have earned it, not because of some bias against NEC teams. It's not because of their past glory either. PL has actually proved they could win when it mattered.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

We ran out of quota, so I just sent the first batch manually. I will be sending whatever is in there waiting at the top of the hour up until 7pm Mountain and then I will do it one last time before I head off to bed this evening. IOW, if you voted, check you vote about 1/4 after the hour over the next 3 and if you don't bote until after then you have to, you have to, you have to, get up and look at it first thing in the AM and get back to me if you see a problem.

[Lehigh'98]

Just last year I voted for Sacred Heart. I have voted for plenty of NEC teams in the past.

It's not bias in this case, SFU just didn't make the cut for my, and likely most other voters, Top 25.

I have no Patriot teams in my Top 25 either.

No Patriot teams in top 100 this year.

[aceinthehole]

AGS 2017 Poll – Previous Week’s Results

Preseason
· #19 Lehigh (507 pts) – Patriot Champion; L 21-64 at New Hampshire
· #23 Fordham (155 pts) – Patriot Runner-up; W, 36-22 at Bucknell
· ORV / #37 Saint Francis (33 pts) – NEC Champion; L, 21-31 at Villanova
· ORV / #37 Harvard (33 pts) – 3rd Ivy; L, 14-21 vs. Yale

Week 1
· #19 Lehigh (460 pts) – L, 35-38 vs. Villanova
· #21 Colgate (246 pts) – W, 20-14 at Cal Poly
· ORV / #38 Fordham (39 pts) – L, 6-64 at Army

Week 2
· #24 Colgate (212 pts) – L, 17-20 vs. Richmond
· ORV / #30 Saint Francis (50 pts) – W, 31-6 vs. Wagner
· ORV / #35 Sacred Heart (25 pts) – W, 38-24 at Lafayette
· ORV / #37 Lehigh (21 pts) – L, 27-46 at Monmouth

Week 3
· #23 Holy Cross (238 pts) – W, 51-26 at New Hampshire
· ORV / #29 Colgate (100 pts) – L, 10-33 at Buffalo
· ORV / #37 Princeton (25 pts) – W, 27-17 vs. San Diego

Week 4
· ORV / #33 Princeton (34 pts) – W, 38-17 at Lafayette
· ORV / #35 Holy Cross (32 pts) – L, 26-27 (OT) at Dartmouth
· ORV / #36 Pennsylvania (25 pts) – 65-47 at Lehigh
· ORV / #39 Yale (15 points) – W, 49-24 vs. Cornell

I would note that 4 different Patriot League teams (Lehigh, Fordham, Colgate, and Holy Cross) have received votes this year, and the league has had a top-25 team in 4 of the 5 polls conducted so far.

And the Ivy League, which doesn't even start play until week 3 (and plays the most insular non-conference schedule in FCS), has had 4 different teams (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and Penn) earn AGS poll votes this season.

So can someone explain the AGS love for the Ivy League?

[PantherRob82]

AGS 2017 Poll – Previous Week’s Results

Preseason
· #19 Lehigh (507 pts) – Patriot Champion; L 21-64 at New Hampshire
· #23 Fordham (155 pts) – Patriot Runner-up; W, 36-22 at Bucknell
· ORV / #37 Saint Francis (33 pts) – NEC Champion; L, 21-31 at Villanova
· ORV / #37 Harvard (33 pts) – 3rd Ivy; L, 14-21 vs. Yale

Week 1
· #19 Lehigh (460 pts) – L, 35-38 vs. Villanova
· #21 Colgate (246 pts) – W, 20-14 at Cal Poly
· ORV / #38 Fordham (39 pts) – L, 6-64 at Army

Week 2
· #24 Colgate (212 pts) – L, 17-20 vs. Richmond
· ORV / #30 Saint Francis (50 pts) – W, 31-6 vs. Wagner
· ORV / #35 Sacred Heart (25 pts) – W, 38-24 at Lafayette
· ORV / #37 Lehigh (21 pts) – L, 27-46 at Monmouth

Week 3
· #23 Holy Cross (238 pts) – W, 51-26 at New Hampshire
· ORV / #29 Colgate (100 pts) – L, 10-33 at Buffalo
· ORV / #37 Princeton (25 pts) – W, 27-17 vs. San Diego

Week 4
· ORV / #33 Princeton (34 pts) – W, 38-17 at Lafayette
· ORV / #35 Holy Cross (32 pts) – L, 26-27 (OT) at Dartmouth
· ORV / #36 Pennsylvania (25 pts) – 65-47 at Lehigh
· ORV / #39 Yale (15 points) – W, 49-24 vs. Cornell

I would note that 4 different Patriot League teams (Lehigh, Fordham, Colgate, and Holy Cross) have received votes this year, and the league has had a top-25 team in 4 of the 5 polls conducted so far.

And the Ivy League, which doesn't even start play until week 3 (and plays the most insular non-conference schedule in FCS), has had 4 different teams (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and Penn) earn AGS poll votes this season.

So can someone explain the AGS love for the Ivy League?

i would argue AGS does not like the Ivy or PL as a whole but assumes their best team is 20-25. Early in the season there may be some disagreement on who the best team in that league is. Add in the fact that no one else seems to want to win any games or be ranked and you have more point spread across more teams and so they might sneak more in.

[PantherRob82]

Personally, once the season starts I'm mostly concerned with this seaon's results. St Francis was on my radar after week one since they were a playoff team, but they started with a sub D- I opponent. Then in week 2 they lost to a bad Towson team. Then a bye. They're slightly on my radar now, but I wouldn't be voting for Liberty even if we included them in the AGS poll.

[aceinthehole]

i would argue AGS does not like the Ivy or PL as a whole but assumes their best team is 20-25. Early in the season there may be some disagreement on who the best team in that league is. Add in the fact that no one else seems to want to win any games or be ranked and you have more point spread across more teams and so they might sneak more in.

That is a fair and honest response; and it absolutely proves my point here! The best NEC team each year isn't afford that same assumption.

Lehigh was ranked in the 2017 AGS Preseason poll (#19) based on their 2016 results and final ranking (#20) . Saint Francis had a very similar resume to Lehigh in 2016 and played better in the playoffs, but didn't get the same "assumptions." SFU was OVR/#27 in the final 2016 poll and was ORV/#37 in the 2017 preseason poll.

Harvard finished 7-3 in 2016 (losing its final 2 games) and still went into the 2017 preseason poll as an equal to Saint Francis.

If the consensus is the "best of" the PL/Ivy is generally worthy of consideration of 20-25 ranking, why isn't the same privilege also afforded to the "best of" the NEC?

I'm not going to beat this to death, but the bottom line is the Ivy and PL are afforded every excuse and benefit of the doubt regardless of their insular non-conference schedule and lack of notable victories against full scholarship and ranked opponents. Whereas, any NEC accomplishment or win is immediately questioned, dissected, and held up to standards that general don't apply to these other 2 leagues.

[POD Knows]

That is a fair and honest response; and it absolutely proves my point here! The best NEC team each year isn't afford that same assumption.

Lehigh was ranked in the 2017 AGS Preseason poll (#19) based on their 2016 results and final ranking (#20) . Saint Francis had a very similar resume to Lehigh in 2016 and played better in the playoffs, but didn't get the same "assumptions." SFU was OVR/#27 in the final 2016 poll and was ORV/#37 in the 2017 preseason poll.

Harvard finished 7-3 in 2016 (losing its final 2 games) and still went into the 2017 preseason poll as an equal to Saint Francis.

If the consensus is the "best of" the PL/Ivy is generally worthy of consideration of 20-25 ranking, why isn't the same privilege also afforded to the "best of" the NEC?

I'm not going to beat this to death, but the bottom line is the Ivy and PL are afforded every excuse and benefit of the doubt regardless of their insular non-conference schedule and lack of notable victories against full scholarship and ranked opponents. Whereas, any NEC accomplishment or win is immediately questioned, dissected, and held up to standards that general don't apply to these other 2 leagues.All three conferences suck

[PantherRob82]

That is a fair and honest response; and it absolutely proves my point here! The best NEC team each year isn't afford that same assumption.

Lehigh was ranked in the 2017 AGS Preseason poll (#19) based on their 2016 results and final ranking (#20) . Saint Francis had a very similar resume to Lehigh in 2016 and played better in the playoffs, but didn't get the same "assumptions." SFU was OVR/#27 in the final 2016 poll and was ORV/#37 in the 2017 preseason poll.

Harvard finished 7-3 in 2016 (losing its final 2 games) and still went into the 2017 preseason poll as an equal to Saint Francis.

If the consensus is the "best of" the PL/Ivy is generally worthy of consideration of 20-25 ranking, why isn't the same privilege also afforded to the "best of" the NEC?

I'm not going to beat this to death, but the bottom line is the Ivy and PL are afforded every excuse and benefit of the doubt regardless of their insular non-conference schedule and lack of notable victories against full scholarship and ranked opponents. Whereas, any NEC accomplishment or win is immediately questioned, dissected, and held up to standards that general don't apply to these other 2 leagues.

Because St Francis lost their best player?

I didn't vote in the preseason poll, but I included Lehigh and Colgate in week one based on the results. No Ivy in Week 1 for me.

Lehigh bounced in my Week 2 vote, Colgate in Week 4 and I haven't voted for an Ivy this year.

[KPSUL]

The question doesn’t apply to the CAA or MVFC or SoCon, etc. we know they have the wins and are represented well based on those wins.

Again, the question was raised to compare the NEC performance to the Patriot, Ivy, MEAC, etc.

Like FBS, the FCS has its power conferences. This isn’t debating that the NEC teams should be treated as if they were in the CAA or MVFC.

The issue I continue to raise On this board is the inherent bias, respect, and deference given to PL and Ivy teams. The NEC has to prove itself each week and every team is held accountable for the league’s reputation. But the “glory years” and brand-name recognition of the these elite academic institutions, seems to blind everyone to the actual product on the gridiron.

The NEC has been EQUAL to the Patriot and Ivy League for a while now, yet every September we have these same debates and hype some PL/Ivy teams. How many years have we heard about how great Harvard is? This season Princeton is on the rise. Columbia wins a few games and they are “on the radar” of some posters.

The Holy Cross loss to Lafayette is much worse than a SFU loss to Towson and the win over Liberty is just as good as the win vs UNH. Yet HC got the benifit of the doubt after 2 weeks with a win vs Bucknell.

It has been the same story for the last 5+ years. The NEC fights for respect with results each year while the PL and Ivy are living off past glory.

I think the answer to why AGS shows more "respect" and "Bias" to the PL is a result of the simple fact that there are way more PL active AGS members than NEC. I can think of only 5 or NEC fans who post, while there are dozens of PL fans and about 10 times more posts that relate to the PL vs the NEC. I find the Patriot League threads, both the ones they start and the ones they steal, to be among the most entertaining on AGS. The self loathing, the self-deprecating humor, and the constant "wait until next year" mentality is just hard to match. Consequently we pay a disproportionate amount of time focused on them than their meager football accomplishments actually warrant. Besides, because there are just plain more of them to vote than there are NEC fans, so their teams garner more votes on the AGS Poll. If you carefully watch the PL AGS guys (I assume they are all guys) they tend to astutely coalesce around one of their teams at a time, we've seen three different teams so far this season in that role, Colgate, Lehigh and Holy Cross; and the season is still young - we might see a couple more before it is over. Of course once they see a league member firmly entrenched in the AGS Top 25, they will begin lobbying for their "mythical" at large
second playoff candidate. And let's face it, these guys are better educated, therefore better writers and debaters than then us knuckle draggers from public universities - so don't rely on us to level your AGS playing field. Really you don't have much of a chance unless you can significantly increase your AGS numbers.

[aceinthehole]

I think the answer to why AGS shows more "respect" and "Bias" to the PL is a result of the simple fact that there are way more PL active AGS members than NEC. I can think of only 5 or NEC fans who post, while there are dozens of PL fans and about 10 times more posts that relate to the PL vs the NEC. I find the Patriot League threads, both the ones they start and the ones they steal, to be among the most entertaining on AGS. The self loathing, the self-deprecating humor, and the constant "wait until next year" mentality is just hard to match. Consequently we pay a disproportionate amount of time focused on them than their meager football accomplishments actually warrant. Besides, because there are just plain more of them to vote than there are NEC fans, so their teams garner more votes on the AGS Poll. If you carefully watch the PL AGS guys (I assume they are all guys) they tend to astutely coalesce around one of their teams at a time, we've seen three different teams so far this season in that role, Colgate, Lehigh and Holy Cross; and the season is still young - we might see a couple more before it is over. Of course once they see a league member firmly entrenched in the AGS Top 25, they will begin lobbying for their "mythical" at large
second playoff candidate. And let's face it, these guys are better educated, therefore better writers and debaters than then us knuckle draggers from public universities - so don't rely on us to level your AGS playing field. Really you don't have much of a chance unless you can significantly increase your AGS numbers.

I agree! I enjoy the PL fans (and many of their postings) too, I just hope more people would look at the NEC through the same lense they view the PL/Ivy.

It is still a long season, so we'll see where the chips fall in November. SFU and the rest of the NEC might well just end up as garbage later in the year - I can live with that. I just wish the NEC teams got the preseason head start that some others teams get.

[superman7515]

Most significant win? Central Arkansas? SFA & McNeese are both home games, puts them in the drivers seat for the Southland.

Most significant loss? Chattanooga? They need to win every remaining game to get to 7 D1 wins and the SOS won't be enough to get them in with just 6.

[JSUSoutherner]

Most significant win? Central Arkansas? SFA & McNeese are both home games, puts them in the drivers seat for the Southland.

Most significant loss? Chattanooga? They need to win every remaining game to get to 7 D1 wins and the SOS won't be enough to get them in with just 6.
I had UCA and EL Cid

[PantherRob82]

I had UCA and EL Cid
That's exactly where I went. The Bulldogs already have a sub D-I win and a penciled in loss against Clemson. When factoring in the major beat down they took and adding in that they still face Wofford, Furman, and WCU, that loss seemed pretty devastating.

[cx500d]

I had UCA and EL Cid

Ditto

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Personally, once the season starts I'm mostly concerned with this seaon's results. St Francis was on my radar after week one since they were a playoff team, but they started with a sub D- I opponent. Then in week 2 they lost to a bad Towson team. Then a bye. They're slightly on my radar now, but I wouldn't be voting for Liberty even if we included them in the AGS poll.

Week 2, we played Wagner.

Get the facts, right.

[PantherRob82]

Week 2, we played Wagner.

Get the facts, right.

Googled listed it out of order. Sorry I missed your signature win over Wagner. xrolleyesx I knew what you did at the time and a win over Wagner and a sub D-I didn't warrant inclusion in my poll. Then you lost to Towson. Better?

[McNeese75]

Most significant win? Central Arkansas? SFA & McNeese are both home games, puts them in the drivers seat for the Southland.

Most significant loss? Chattanooga? They need to win every remaining game to get to 7 D1 wins and the SOS won't be enough to get them in with just 6.

UCA's schedule this year is incredibly fortuitous for the SLC Conference Title. All of the projected top half finishers have to play on the purple and gray stripes this year. But, if you want to contend, ya gotta beat the Bear no matter where it's at.

[Daytripper]

UCA's schedule this year is incredibly fortuitous for the SLC Conference Title. All of the projected top half finishers have to play on the purple and gray stripes this year. But, if you want to contend, ya gotta beat the Bear no matter where it's at.

The Bears are legit. They shouldn't lose another game and should get a seed in the playoffs. It's possible SHSU will lose another game. If not, they go in to the playoffs with one loss to a seeded team. If McNeese can only lose to UCA, it's very possible that SLC gets 3 in the playoffs.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

That is not even close to what I am saying. You are saying, that based off of MSU game, NDSU would have an argument for #1. Look at what UND did to MSU. There is no way, IMO, NDSU is #1. #2, yeah there is an argument to be made. JMU, based off of what I have seen, either UD and Maine are good, or Schor was running for his life and there is issues on that o-line. The reason why JMU was #1 last year was there were no significant flaws in their game. 2015, Stick looked like the next Brock Jensen and kept the Bison together after it looked like Carson was going to be done for the season. 2014, Carson Wentz showed up and made the offense pick up the slack where the defense was recovering from the 2013 season. Etc, etc...

2017, no team looks like they have their game figured out as of right now. That is how I see it, and I know I am not the only one who views it this way.

Not exactly true. Last year, JMU was still fixing the defensive flaws of the two years under Coach Withers - it was only by the playoffs that the defense really came together at the right time. This year, the defense is still in great shape where it left off, but the O-line has not performed well enough consistently enough to win a championship. Losing a starting RB hurts a bit, but the inexperience and injuries on the O-line, especially the right side, are JMU's glaring weakness compared to the rest of the team. Schor also throws an INT weekly - bank on it. I love the kid, but it's like he's trusting players to a fault. Schor also holds the ball a long time because he can scramble. I don't blame that entirely on the O-line. I'll take his weekly INT if we get 3TDs to every 1 INT (which is not currently the case), but it could bite us later in the playoffs. JMU can be beaten, but those conditions in Delaware are not the best lenses through which to judge.

In this sense, and not knowing as much about the specifics of NDSU's games, I agree about the no consensus #1 team point of view. But, just like we must rank 20-25, so too do we rank the top 5, and JMU is on top until it is not. MVFC and CAA are comparable enough to allow that benefit of the doubt. JMU will potentially suffer at the end of the season for not playing as difficult a slate of games as NDSU (and JMU's toughest are mostly at home) so I would not be shocked (but disappointed) if both go undefeated and JMU gets the #2 seed.

[WestCoastAggie]

Current Massey Composite Ratings (21 Computer & Human Polls)




James Madison
South Dakota
N. Dakota St
Youngstown State
Sam Houston State
Illinois St
Central Arkansas
Weber State
W Illinois
S Dakota State
Jacksonville State
Stony Brook
Wofford
E. Washington
Elon
NC A&T
Samford
W. Carolina
Richmond
Albany
Villanova
Yale
UC Davis
New Hampshire
Nicholls St

[Lehigh'98]

AGS 2017 Poll – Previous Week’s Results

Preseason
· #19 Lehigh (507 pts) – Patriot Champion; L 21-64 at New Hampshire
· #23 Fordham (155 pts) – Patriot Runner-up; W, 36-22 at Bucknell
· ORV / #37 Saint Francis (33 pts) – NEC Champion; L, 21-31 at Villanova
· ORV / #37 Harvard (33 pts) – 3rd Ivy; L, 14-21 vs. Yale

Week 1
· #19 Lehigh (460 pts) – L, 35-38 vs. Villanova
· #21 Colgate (246 pts) – W, 20-14 at Cal Poly
· ORV / #38 Fordham (39 pts) – L, 6-64 at Army

Week 2
· #24 Colgate (212 pts) – L, 17-20 vs. Richmond
· ORV / #30 Saint Francis (50 pts) – W, 31-6 vs. Wagner
· ORV / #35 Sacred Heart (25 pts) – W, 38-24 at Lafayette
· ORV / #37 Lehigh (21 pts) – L, 27-46 at Monmouth

Week 3
· #23 Holy Cross (238 pts) – W, 51-26 at New Hampshire
· ORV / #29 Colgate (100 pts) – L, 10-33 at Buffalo
· ORV / #37 Princeton (25 pts) – W, 27-17 vs. San Diego

Week 4
· ORV / #33 Princeton (34 pts) – W, 38-17 at Lafayette
· ORV / #35 Holy Cross (32 pts) – L, 26-27 (OT) at Dartmouth
· ORV / #36 Pennsylvania (25 pts) – 65-47 at Lehigh
· ORV / #39 Yale (15 points) – W, 49-24 vs. Cornell

I would note that 4 different Patriot League teams (Lehigh, Fordham, Colgate, and Holy Cross) have received votes this year, and the league has had a top-25 team in 4 of the 5 polls conducted so far.

And the Ivy League, which doesn't even start play until week 3 (and plays the most insular non-conference schedule in FCS), has had 4 different teams (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and Penn) earn AGS poll votes this season.

So can someone explain the AGS love for the Ivy League?

I agree with your premise that the last few years the NEC is just as strong as the Patriot or Ivy (this year they are better than PL). The reason for the bias may be overall playoff record. NEC is 2-9, PL is 10-22. More people are aware of Patriot teams in general.

[BEAR]

UCA's schedule this year is incredibly fortuitous for the SLC Conference Title. All of the projected top half finishers have to play on the purple and gray stripes this year. But, if you want to contend, ya gotta beat the Bear no matter where it's at.

That is true. Last year all these home games were on the road. Schedule flip. Last year UCA had to go to McNeese, SHSU, SFA, etc...yet came away with only one loss..to SHSU. What a horrible turnover game that was! But I was impressed with only one loss with all those road games last year..including the one to Arkansas State which we won.

[McNeese75]

The Bears are legit. They shouldn't lose another game and should get a seed in the playoffs. It's possible SHSU will lose another game. If not, they go in to the playoffs with one loss to a seeded team. If McNeese can only lose to UCA, it's very possible that SLC gets 3 in the playoffs.

Even at 9-2 I do not think the Pokes make it due to SOS. IMO have to win in Conway to have a chance and that obviously is going to be quite a stretch. But of course they have to avoid a hiccup along the way as well and SELU and ACU will have something to say about that too.

[WileECoyote06]

Even at 9-2 I do not think the Pokes make it due to SOS. IMO have to win in Conway to have a chance and that obviously is going to be quite a stretch. But of course they have to avoid a hiccup along the way as well and SELU and ACU will have something to say about that too.

At 9-2 McNeese is in. Stop with the snow job bro. .xlolx

[BEAR]

At 9-2 McNeese is in. Stop with the snow job bro. .xlolx

He's thinking about the 4 teams in the SLC that can go 9-2 or better.

SHSU 10-1
UCA 10-1
McNeese 9-2
Nicholls 9-2

How many of those get in? Does Nicholls have the SOS edge?

[McNeese75]

He's thinking about the 4 teams in the SLC that can go 9-2 or better.

SHSU 10-1
UCA 10-1
McNeese 9-2
Nicholls 9-2

How many of those get in? Does Nicholls have the SOS edge?

They played Texas A&M pretty tight through into the third quarter, we played Tennessee Tech tight, :D What do you think??

[Daytripper]

He's thinking about the 4 teams in the SLC that can go 9-2 or better.

SHSU 10-1
UCA 10-1
McNeese 9-2
Nicholls 9-2

How many of those get in? Does Nicholls have the SOS edge?

Nicholls will have the SOS edge, but they are relative newcomers to the playoff scene. Whether we like it our not, history, reputation and name recognition matter, so McNeese might get the nod.

[Professor Chaos]

He's thinking about the 4 teams in the SLC that can go 9-2 or better.

SHSU 10-1
UCA 10-1
McNeese 9-2
Nicholls 9-2

How many of those get in? Does Nicholls have the SOS edge?


Nicholls will have the SOS edge, but they are relative newcomers to the playoff scene. Whether we like it our not, history, reputation and name recognition matter, so McNeese might get the nod.
Well, considering Nicholls beat McNeese head-to-head that would be a sham.

Not to say it couldn't happen. I believe in 2012 UNH at 7-4 made it in over 7-4 Towson even though Towson crushed UNH the day before Selection Sunday.

[BEAR]

They played Texas A&M pretty tight through into the third quarter, we played Tennessee Tech tight, :D What do you think??

If McNeese comes to Conway and wins that would put the McNeese win there up there for voters..and 2 teams at 9-2 and two at 10-1.... then what?

Scenario:

McNeese 10-1 with win at UCA later this year. Gets a share of the conference title AND the autobid for being out the longest.
SHSU 10-1 with share of conference title...history of playoffs, but 10 wins in FCS...do they get in?
UCA 9-2 with share of conference title...losses to #18 FBS Kansas State and SLC co-champion McNeese but win over #3 SHSU..do they get in?
Nicholls 9-2 with good showing against FBS and 9 wins...do they get in.

That game in Conway will be BIG for the conference IF...IF....IF....it goes this way....

[Lehigh'98]

Well, considering Nicholls beat McNeese head-to-head that would be a sham.

Not to say it couldn't happen. I believe in 2012 UNH at 7-4 made it in over 7-4 Towson even though Towson crushed UNH the day before Selection Sunday.

Towson got jobbed badly that year

[BEAR]

Well, considering Nicholls beat McNeese head-to-head that would be a sham.

Not to say it couldn't happen. I believe in 2012 UNH at 7-4 made it in over 7-4 Towson even though Towson crushed UNH the day before Selection Sunday.

If McNeese beats UCA and there is a 3 way tie for the conference title, then the team that has been out of the playoffs the longest gets the autobid I believe..and that would be McNeese. Unless I remember wrong...

[Professor Chaos]

If McNeese beats UCA and there is a 3 way tie for the conference title, then the team that has been out of the playoffs the longest gets the autobid I believe..and that would be McNeese. Unless I remember wrong...
That seems like a bass ackwards way of breaking a tie unless it's about the 8th tie breaker. They don't even go to computer ratings at any point?

[KPSUL]

Towson got jobbed badly that year

Everyone knows that UNH still has photos of almost all the FCS Selection Committee in, let us say, "compromising" positions. So naturally UNH will make the playoffs every year if there is any remote way to rationalize it!

[BEAR]

I was off a little...xlolx


6.03.02.02 Tie Between Three or More Teams. If three (3) or more teams tie for the championship, the same selection procedure as outlined in 6.03.02.01 shall be followed with the following exceptions:

(a) If three (3) or more teams are tied and if one (1) should have an advantage in head-to-head competition over the other teams, that team shall be the automatic bid recipient;

(b) If three (3) or more teams are tied and if two (2) or more should have an advantage in head-to-head competition over the other team, those teams with the advantage shall be evaluated using the twoway or multiple tie-breaking procedures and the other team eliminated; and/or

(c) If three (3) or more teams remain tied, and if the tied teams did not play each other, then the tied teams’ won-loss results against the next highest-positioned team(s) they each played shall be compared. This shall be continued through the final standings until one (1) team gains the advantage, thus the NCAA automatic bid. When comparing tied teams’ records against other teams below the tie in question, all other teams not involved in the tie are eligible to be compared with. [5/14]

6.03.02.03 Computer Rankings. Should the above tiebreaking procedures not resolve the tie(s) and determine the automatic bid, the Conference shall utilize the final computerized ranking of the NCAA Simple Ratings System (SRS) to designate the Conference’s highest-rated team and automatic bid recipient. [5/14]

6.03.02.04 Unbreakable Ties. If a tie remains after the above procedures are attempted, the NCAA Championship-eligible member that has been absent from the Division I Championship for the longest period of time shall be designated as the Conference’s representative in the Division I Championship.

6.03.02.05 Tie-Breaker Drawing. If a tie remains after the procedure outlined in 6.03.02.03 is attempted, a drawing shall be conducted by the Commissioner.

Here's the issue: Sammy and McNeese don't play each other. UCA and Nicholls don't play each other. UCA beat Sammy. McNeese can possibly beat UCA later this year. Hard to apply the above rules with that scenario...

[WileECoyote06]

If McNeese comes to Conway and wins that would put the McNeese win there up there for voters..and 2 teams at 9-2 and two at 10-1.... then what?

Scenario:

McNeese 10-1 with win at UCA later this year. Gets a share of the conference title AND the autobid for being out the longest.
SHSU 10-1 with share of conference title...history of playoffs, but 10 wins in FCS...do they get in?
UCA 9-2 with share of conference title...losses to #18 FBS Kansas State and SLC co-champion McNeese but win over #3 SHSU..do they get in?
Nicholls 9-2 with good showing against FBS and 9 wins...do they get in.

That game in Conway will be BIG for the conference IF...IF....IF....it goes this way....

Unlikely things shake out this way. Other teams usually throw a monkey wrench in the plans.

But if this were to happen, all four teams should get in, and the SLC has just shown everyone how to game the system. IMHO

[Daytripper]

Unlikely things shake out this way. Other teams usually throw a monkey wrench in the plans.

But if this were to happen, all four teams should get in, and the SLC has just shown everyone how to game the system. IMHO

https://media2.giphy.com/media/aHnOjSIRfAz9m/200.webp#32-grid1

[BEAR]

Unlikely things shake out this way. Other teams usually throw a monkey wrench in the plans.

But if this were to happen, all four teams should get in, and the SLC has just shown everyone how to game the system. IMHO

That would require the mid level and lower level SLC teams THROW every game on purpose...right? Or something like that....

[WileECoyote06]

That would require the mid level and lower level SLC teams THROW every game on purpose...right? Or something like that....

True. I'm just messing with y'all. Do you see a day when y'all return to playing eight conference games?

[BEAR]

True. I'm just messing with y'all. Do you see a day when y'all return to playing eight conference games?

Nope. I have no idea what our commish was thinking....don't want to either...xlolx

[Serpentor]

True. I'm just messing with y'all. Do you see a day when y'all return to playing eight conference games?

Not if our nitwit conference officials have anything to say about it.

[BEAR]

Coaches poll is out...

[ST_Lawson]

Coaches poll is out...

In case you want some Monday mid-day humor.

[superman7515]

True. I'm just messing with y'all. Do you see a day when y'all return to playing eight conference games?

The CAA is considering moving to 9 conference games. That would leave UD playing an FBS and DelState for the non-conference slate most years, we'd be in the same boat as some of the other conferences who get blamed for being too insular in their scheduling.

[McNeese75]

The CAA is considering moving to 9 conference games. That would leave UD playing an FBS and DelState for the non-conference slate most years, we'd be in the same boat as some of the other conferences who get blamed for being too insular in their scheduling.

xeyebrowx welcome to our world

[Professor Chaos]

The CAA is considering moving to 9 conference games. That would leave UD playing an FBS and DelState for the non-conference slate most years, we'd be in the same boat as some of the other conferences who get blamed for being too insular in their scheduling.
Wow, I really hope they don't. Playing an unbalanced conference schedule sucks but it's even worse to have so few OOC FCS games.

And conference schedules will still be unbalanced even with a 9 game schedule.

[lionsrking2]

True. I'm just messing with y'all. Do you see a day when y'all return to playing eight conference games?

I'm hearing there is sentiment in returning to eight conference games.

[McNeese75]

I'm hearing there is sentiment in returning to eight conference games.

That would be great. IF you can't play everyone every year may as well be two teams out of rotation instead of one.

[Schism55]

That would be great. IF you can't play everyone every year may as well be two teams out of rotation instead of one.
Careful....
Thats what led to GFCC winning the Big Sky last year xeyebrowx

[TheKingpin28]

Careful....
Thats what led to GFCC winning the Big Sky last year xeyebrowx

...and then the weightroom did not pay off and they went harder than before.