Time Frame for I-A/I-AA Merger

[TexasTerror]

As the title of this thread suggests, I was just wanting to throw out the subject of when people think that I-A and I-AA football will merge into one, with the possible conclusion being a 'Playoff Championship Series' and a 'Bowl Championship Series', which seems to be the overwhelming answer people would like to see.

Also, would you think the NCAA would ask the non-scholarship schools, if/when when the Div I-A/I-AA merger were to take place, that are not playoff eligible (outside of the Ivy League) to drop to Div II? Or perhaps "put pressure" on the Ivy League to make themselves playoff-eligible or ask them to drop to Div II?

Thoughts? Any article links you have would be great too! :)

[rokamortis]

IMHO - they should just base it on scholarship levels. Too many schools want to be Div I for basketball and other sports but do not want to commit to 85 or 63 schollies for football.

So the first scholarship level would be 85, then 63, then 30, then 0 - and let the schools decide where they want to go. This way everyone maintains their Div I status and get to participate at Div I for all sports, but for football they would compete with like teams.

Edit:

Also - it technically isn't merging if they are still going to have separate divisions. It is the same thing they have now, just rename the divisions.

[TexasTerror]

IMHO - they should just base it on scholarship levels. Too many schools want to be Div I for basketball and other sports but do not want to commit to 85 or 63 schollies for football.

What if they sent those schools to DII (or III for that matter) for football and they could stay at DI as it relates to all other sports? Isn't that possible and aren't there schools that do that?

[Josh]

I think it has to happen at some point or something to change the way things are divided up. If there is a I-AA school out there who wants to be thought of on the level of I-A schools they need to be merged and scholarships equal.

Ralph,
Why don't you want a merger?

It seems that a restructure is going to happen and things will change big time.

I just think that maybe if I-AA schools were put on the same level scholarship wise and given more TV time and maybe put closer to I-A teams that it should help right?

Right now I-AA is considered D2 by anyone outside of I-AA who is in I-A just about. I think I-AA schools should do something to get more respect.

To be honest if I worried about how I-AA is perceived all the time I would get behind on my homework. I just think that we have some people out there who worry about it and only talk about that so this might cure that?

Either way I cover them all and my headaches would never stop! I still have the same amount of SIDs and players to deal with!... :bang:

Just so you guys know, I-AA and I-A players are just alike except in many cases I-A players know they are good where a lot of I-AA players are not sure and just want their name out there. Some I-A players think there is no way their name could be pubbed anymore than it is now.

[rokamortis]

What if they sent those schools to DII (or III for that matter) for football and they could stay at DI as it relates to all other sports? Isn't that possible and aren't there schools that do that?

As I understand it what you propose is not possible as the NCAA requires all of your sports to be in the same division.

[UAalum72]

What if they sent those schools to DII (or III for that matter) for football and they could stay at DI as it relates to all other sports? Isn't that possible and aren't there schools that do that?
There are a handful of Division III schools and many Division II schools that have a single sport at Division I (never basketball or football) - a HIGHER level. They may also compete for a D-I championship if there aren't enough schools with a sport at the lower level to put on a tournament.

I don't know of any colleges with a single sport at a LOWER level.

[DFW HOYA]

Also, would you think the NCAA would ask the non-scholarship schools, if/when when the Div I-A/I-AA merger were to take place, that are not playoff eligible (outside of the Ivy League) to drop to Div II? Or perhaps "put pressure" on the Ivy League to make themselves playoff-eligible or ask them to drop to Div II?

Remember, being Division I has nothing to do with # of scholarships, but number of sports that are sponsored.

It's highly, highly unlikely that Division I schools would willingly (and without legal action) relegate themselves to D-II. How likely is it for the NEC or the MAAC to play PSAC or WVIAC schools with 36 scholarships?

The reason why the 1993 exodus to I-AA took place at all was that II and III schools did not want Division I schools playing in their divisions anymore, which led to the so-called "Dayton rule", given that UD regularly dominated III schools in football.

[colgate13]

You'll see the Ivy League take their ball and play elsewhere before you EVER see the NCAA telling them what to do. I've often speculated that if push came to shove, the Ancient 8 start their own 'association' and make up the "Ivy" division, invite Patriot League type schools for another division, and then persuade the NESCAC schools to come on board for a to be named small school division. With those kinds of names, I think they could pick off a few others too like Johns Hopkins, etc.

That's about 30+ teams that would compete in a wholly separate association under it's own rules governing academics, eligibility, playoffs, etc. With those names, I bet they could negotiate themselves a good TV package too.

That's the "nuclear" option for sure, but the NCAA ain't telling Harvard or Yale or Princeton how to run their athletic programs.

[Saint3333]

Good luck with that colgate, I'm sure the NCAA is worried about that. I think that would do more harm than good to the sports of the ivy schools.

[colgate13]

Good luck with that colgate, I'm sure the NCAA is worried about that. I think that would do more harm than good to the sports of the ivy schools.

Personally, I think it wouldn't hurt either institution. I just think that group of schools isn't going to allow anyone to "force" them to do anything (become playoff eligible or drop to a lower division). Big egos in that bunch. I don't think the NCAA is concerned either. If it's not I-A football or D-I basketball, it's low on the radar screen.

I follow the Ivy quite a bit and think that if they wanted to, it wouldn't hurt their sports one bit and would actually provide the opportunity for a renaissance for them. Their strong sports would continue to be strong (if it were an Ivy, PL, NESCAC (that's the D-III conference with Middlebury, Williams, Amherst, Hamilton, etc.): lacrosse, ice hockey, etc. would still attract the top recruits and in many ways could be better than what the NCAA had to offer. Football and basketball now don't have to sit under the shadow of big monsters but instead can be something wholely separate; and can market themselves that way.

For example, we all know how big March Madness is. Well, the Ivy/PL/NESCAC championship could take place the week before "Championship Week" when fans are starving for hoops. They could also negotiate deals that compete with the NCAA's sponsors. ESPN/ABC gets the NCAA? NBC inks a deal with the "other" league. You can expound on that infinitely. If Gatorade is the official drink of the tournament, Powerade is the official drink of the other tournament.

I'm not crazy, I don't think a league like that could ever replace the NCAA. Rather, I think it has the potential to be like Pepsi to Coke or Reebok to Nike. Smaller, but still well known and profitable. If you wrap up the pacakage nicely with lots of academic bows and ribbons, the Ivy types would eat it up.

[blukeys]

Good luck with that colgate, I'm sure the NCAA is worried about that. I think that would do more harm than good to the sports of the ivy schools.


I don't think this would hurt the Ivies at all. They are not a threat to win a national championship in I-A football or D-I basketball so what would they really lose? Nothing. They would market their "association" as true college amateur athletics and the Northeast media would eat it up. I know many at Delaware (certainly not all) that would be interested in exploring an option such as this.

[colgate13]

I know many at Delaware (certainly not all) that would be interested in exploring an option such as this.

As would William & Mary, Richmond... the list could get very interesting IF the Ivy's really took this banner and ran with it. I give this about a 2% chance of every happening, BUT if D-I really every ran foul and/or they tried to muddy the Ivy image, look out. They care much more about themselves than the NCAA and would declare that association to be no longer "amatuer" and spin the heck out of it. After things like the Knight commission, they would have a pretty good case too.

Yes, I think the NE media would eat this up. Think about I-A football in the Northeast. What legit teams are there? Penn State, Pitt, BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn... wait, Rutgers is legit? See what I mean! BCS football has for the most part moved out of the NE because it's the realm of big flagship state institutions. Those don't really exist in the NE. So you could sell the new association to the NE as an alternative to the big, bad BCS... and done right, have some success IMHO.

[Josh]

Ralph,
Why don't you want I-A and I-AA merged?

Maybe you missed the question but I am just wondering why you would not want it to happen?

[Saint3333]

This probably comes off the wrong way, but I think it would be more like Coke to Sundrop (or whatever local distributor you guys have up north) instead of Coke to Pepsi.

It would be a nice little niche for you guys, but I will miss the upsets in the bball tourney if this happened.

I can't speak for Delaware, but I would be shocked if the majority of the alums thought this is a good option for the Hens.

[Eaglegus2]

As I understand it what you propose is not possible as the NCAA requires all of your sports to be in the same division.


Incorrect!!!!!!

Augusta State University has all of their sports programs in D-II except one.
Golf is in D-I.

[henfan]

I think it's already been said in this thread but I'll repeat it: there is no proposal to merge I-AA with I-A. The NCAA may consider the cosmetic proposal to eliminate sub-division nomenclature, but that won't effect D-I governance or the current I-A bowl and I-AA playoff set-ups one iota. A merger implies something else altogether.

Whether our division is named "Division I-AA" or "Playoff Championship Division", there won't likely be any mass migration in or out of the division as a result of this change. The low equity I-AA programs won't likely go anywhere either, nor will lower echelon I-A programs be competiting in the playoffs. The NCAA will still award a national championship trophy to the playoff winner. In essence, nothing will have changed except the names.

Of course, I-AA.com and I-AA.org might have to consider URL changes... ;)

[blukeys]

It would be a nice little niche for you guys, but I will miss the upsets in the bball tourney if this happened.

I can't speak for Delaware, but I would be shocked if the majority of the alums thought this is a good option for the Hens.

The impetus would come from the administration. Pres. Rozelle has been on a crusade to turn UD into a quasi - Ivy Leauge institution since he came here from Kentucky. His attempt in '02 to hire the Harvard football coach, who had no ties to UD football caused a firestorm of protest that eventually nixed the deal.

How the alums see it would really depend on how the deal is structured and how much sense it makes for UD overall. As 13 says Richmond and W&M would have some interest in this arrangement and UD's other partner JMU would have to look at a deal like this. Geographically, UD could pick up 2 local rivals in Penn and Princeton. A deal with just the Ivies may not fly but if you include the schools above with the Patriot League then all of a sudden you have many of UD's past and present rivals. Of course there is a considerable element that wants UD to go to DI-A now and they would be adamantly opposed to this arrangement. How much clout they have no one knows.

As for basketball UD's opportunities for an upset in the NCAA's are nil as long as David Henderson remains head coach.

[blukeys]

As I understand it what you propose is not possible as the NCAA requires all of your sports to be in the same division.
Johns Hopkins is D-III in all sports except Lacrosse.

[colgate13]

This probably comes off the wrong way, but I think it would be more like Coke to Sundrop (or whatever local distributor you guys have up north) instead of Coke to Pepsi.

It would be a nice little niche for you guys, but I will miss the upsets in the bball tourney if this happened.

I can't speak for Delaware, but I would be shocked if the majority of the alums thought this is a good option for the Hens.

Saint, no hard feeling here at all. Maybe we can agree on Coke to Shasta? Or how about Fresca? ;)

Seriously though, there's enough of a niche there, across the country with alums, that I think it could gain footing and be something. Not to mention that these schools are some of the deepest pockets in the biz. Harvard alone could afford to create a cable channel dedicated to airing its sports!

[rokamortis]

To the people replying to my incorrect statement - UAalum72 already corrected it earlier by stating that there are schools that play up in division and not down (that he knows of) - for some sports.