SoCon Week #3 Pick 'em

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Last week I was 6-2 as a result of some fabulously bad performances. So here is where I have at it after this week:

1) Wofford - Is quite possibly the luckiest team in the SoCon with two conference wins in the barn.
2) The Citadel - Won in a rout on the road.
3) Samford - Is last Thursday's performance a sign of things to come?
4) Mercer - Had nothing to be ashamed of yesterday.
5) ETSU - No shame in getting hammered by the top dogs in the FCS
6) Western Carolina - Hammered one of the weakest links in FCS
7) Chattanooga - Both losses were against ranked FCS and FBS opponents
8) Furman - Lost to an Elon team that was also fabulously bad
9) VMI - Catawba are you kidding me?

Predictions
Furman @ NC State - Wolfpack chews them up
The Citadel @ ETSU - I foresee an improved performance from the Bucs but not enough
VMI @ Robert Morris - I don't see VMI winning this one
Mercer @ Auburn - The War Eagles fly in this one
Western Carolina @ Gardner-Webb - Catamounts win one on the road
UT Martin @ Chattanooga - Mocs win their first one here
Samford @ Georgia (Beatdown of the Week) - Samford finds out the hard way who the alpha dogs are

[citdog]

Wolfpack
Cadets
Keydets
Allbarn
Catamounts
Chatty Kathys
UGA

[kymoc91]

Predictions:
NC State over Furman - Not a good day for Furman, but the money will be a winner.
The Citadel over ETSU - May not have 52 points scored against ETSU, but ETSU is better than Presbyterian
Robert Morris over VMI - VMI will not be able to overcome Robert Morris
Auburn over Mercer - Tough day for the Bears
Western Carolina over Gardner Webb - GW is a little tougher than Davidson, but Western will still pull off the win.
Chattanooga over UT-Martin - This will be a good test to see where the Mocs are at this point of the season.
Georgia over Samford - Samford will score points, but Georgia will have a field day with the Bulldog D.

[kdinva]

1) The Citadel
2) Wofford
3) Mercer
4) Samford
5) UTC
6) WCU
7) Furman
8) ETSU
9) VMI


Furman 10 @ NC State 45
The Citadel 31 @ ETSU 17
VMI 24 @ Robert Morris 20
Mercer 12 @ Auburn 42
Western Carolina 35 @ Gardner-Webb 20
UT Martin 23 @ Chattanooga 27
Samford 20 @ Georgia 56

[Reign of Terrier]

NC State
Citadel
Bob Mo
Auburn
Western
Chatt
Dawgs

Wofford beats bye by 1

[cx500d]

NC State
The Citadel
VMI
Auburn
Western Carolina
Chattanooga
Georgia

[woffordgrad94]

1. Wofford: VERY tenuously at the top after two rather unconvincing performances. But they're the only team with any conference wins and they started at the top. They're here until beaten.
2. The Citadel: PC stinks, but it was a dominating performance. Dogs look tough. Definitely a SoCon and national contender to me.
3. Chattanooga: The best 0-2 team in FCS. Still could win the conference.
4. Mercer: Impressive against the Terriers; just couldn't hold on. May be poised to make great strides in the SoCon this season.
5. Samford: 2 wins over relatively weak opponents; these Bulldogs have a long way to go on defense. But they can still get it together and contend.
6. WCU: Moved the ball well at Hawaii. The Davidson game tells us nothing. Still unproven to me at this juncture.
7. ETSU: The may well deserve a higher spot, but still unproven to me. A win vs. Limestone is not enough and they predictibly couldn't stay with JMU. Bucs still need to show me more.
8. Furman: Really wet the bed at home against a bad Elon team. I now see they still have a ways to go.
9. VMI: The Keydets' woes continue. They might be in for a winless 2017.

NC State dispatches the Paladins of Furman 42-14.
The Citadel downs ETSU 31-13 for its first conference victory.
Robert Morris defeats VMI 42-31.
Auburn takes its Clemson frustrations out on Mercer 45-10.
Gardner-Webb is decent. They score a mild home upset over WCU, 27-24.
Chattanooga holds off UT-Martin for win number one 28-23.
Georgia scores at will and destroys Samford 55-7.
Wofford enjoys a bye week.

[youcanbankit]

Picks in bold

NC State vs. Furman
The Citadel vs. ETSU
Robert Morris vs. VMI
Auburn vs. Mercer
Gardner-Webb vs. WCU
Chattanooga vs. UT-Martin

[OpTimeGuy]

NC State vs Furman
The Citadel vs ETSU First two games The Citadel has relied on the run. If the same ETSU run defense shows up that showed up against the Dukes and during the first half against Limestone, then this game may be closer than some think. If not, then loss #2 for my Bucs
Robert Morris vs. VMI I want to pick VMI, but I just can't
Auburn vs. Mercer
Gardner Webb vs. WCU
UTC vs UT-Martin

1-Wofford
2-The Citadel
3-UTC
4-Mercer
5-Samford
6-WCU
7-Furman
8-ETSU
9-VMI

[bonarae]

NC State
The Citadel
Robert Morris
Auburn
WCU
UTC

[CID1990]

NC State vs Furman
The Citadel vs ETSU First two games The Citadel has relied on the run. If the same ETSU run defense shows up that showed up against the Dukes and during the first half against Limestone, then this game may be closer than some think. If not, then loss #2 for my Bucs
Robert Morris vs. VMI I want to pick VMI, but I just can't
Auburn vs. Mercer
Gardner Webb vs. WCU
UTC vs UT-Martin

1-Wofford
2-The Citadel
3-UTC
4-Mercer
5-Samford
6-WCU
7-Furman
8-ETSU
9-VMI

You might want to go back and have a look at the PC game - we have a dual threat QB.

We don't use the pass often but when we do (with Jordan Black) it looks like this:

4 of 4
104 yds
3 TD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[citdog]

You might want to go back and have a look at the PC game - we have a dual threat QB.

We don't use the pass often but when we do (with Jordan Black) it looks like this:

4 of 4
104 yds
3 TD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If The Citadel even has the THREAT to be able to complete passes over the top for big plays it is going to be a GREAT season. Two RINGS without even the ability for the defense to be thinking we MIGHT be able to hurt them with the forward pass. Think what the Cadets could do with it.

[Reign of Terrier]

With respect to ETSU, I don't think they have the personnel quite yet to beat the Citadel. They're on year, what, 3 of their new program? I don't think they'll lose as bad as they did on average last year (you'll definitely see some improvement at least by the end of the season), but I don't think they're good enough *right now* to beat the Citadel.

Citadel 35-22

[OpTimeGuy]

You might want to go back and have a look at the PC game - we have a dual threat QB.

We don't use the pass often but when we do (with Jordan Black) it looks like this:

4 of 4
104 yds
3 TD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wasn't trying to say we would win. Unfortunately for this game..and most games this season..I consider it an improvement if we don't get blown out. You guys busted our chops 45-10 last year. I don't expect a difference in outcome, just an improvement. I don't, unlike some Buc fans, see these games through gold colored glasses.

[OpTimeGuy]

So apparently I can only reply to thread and not include a quote. To CID1990--I wasn't trying to imply we would win if we could stop your run game. I only look for us to win 3, maybe sneak one more in there....I am just looking for improvement. You guys busted our chops 45-10 last year. I don't look for a different outcome, only a better showing.

[ElCid]

Picks in bold

NC State vs. Furman
The Citadel vs. ETSU
Robert Morris vs. VMI
Auburn vs. Mercer
Gardner-Webb vs. WCU
Chattanooga vs. UT-Martin

Not even picking the Samford game?

[NorthChuckSouth]

Furman @ NC State - I don't think FU can pull this off
The Citadel @ ETSU - xcoffeex
VMI @ Robert Morris - Robert Morris takes this by a couple touchdowns
Mercer @ Auburn - Mercer may not score
Western Carolina @ Gardner-Webb - GWU gets their crap together and scores more than 3 points (hopefully)
UT Martin @ Chattanooga - UT Martin looked pretty good but I think the Mocs take this one by 10
Samford @ Georgia - Samford may get beat by more than Auburn over Mercer

[Reign of Terrier]

So apparently I can only reply to thread and not include a quote. To CID1990--I wasn't trying to imply we would win if we could stop your run game. I only look for us to win 3, maybe sneak one more in there....I am just looking for improvement. You guys busted our chops 45-10 last year. I don't look for a different outcome, only a better showing.

I think that's fair.

[Catamount87]

Furman @ NCSU - Which Furman team shows up? If it's last week's team, this will be ugly.

The Citadel @ ETSU - The 'Hops trounce the Bucs
VMI @Robert Morris - If VMI keeps up their current pace this will be the third stop in a possible winless season
Mercer @ Auburn - A valiant effort but Auburn cruises in the 2nd half
WCU @ Gardner-Webb - The Cats can move the ball and can score. Defense is much improved over 2016 when the Cats beat the Dogs 44-14
UT Martin @Chattanooga - The Mocs notch their first W of 2017
Samford @ Georgia - Oh boy, Uga X may even have a big day

[Milktruck74]

NCSU
Chitadell
VMI-get it together.
Auburn
WCU
Mocs - Start to see what they can do...
UGA

Not much separation in this week either. Only pick that isn't across the board is VMI/RMU.

[PaladinFan]

Furman @ NCSU - Which Furman team shows up? If it's last week's team, this will be ugly.

The Citadel @ ETSU - The 'Hops trounce the Bucs
VMI @Robert Morris - If VMI keeps up their current pace this will be the third stop in a possible winless season
Mercer @ Auburn - A valiant effort but Auburn cruises in the 2nd half
WCU @ Gardner-Webb - The Cats can move the ball and can score. Defense is much improved over 2016 when the Cats beat the Dogs 44-14
UT Martin @Chattanooga - The Mocs notch their first W of 2017
Samford @ Georgia - Oh boy, Uga X may even have a big day


I've essentially seen the same Furman team both weeks. I'm a little amused by these folks that had us highly ranked last week after almost beating Wofford, and now have us at the bottom after almost not losing to Elon.

I could say that Furman spotted Elon three touchdowns early and dominated much of the game afterward. I could also point out that the SoCon refs absolutely screwed us late in the game. Those are just excuses. Furman played well enough to win, and lost a disheartening game to a beatable team.

Furman is incredibly young, with an entirely new coaching staff, and completely new systems on both sides of the ball (not just new coach running a similar system). They are going to have to lean how to close out games late. We are going to see growing pains like we did Saturday.

The NC State game may be ugly, but the goal is to keep getting better and cause trouble for the meat of the SoCon schedule.

[OL FU]

Furman @ NCSU
The Citadel @ ETSU
VMI @Robert Morris
Mercer @ Auburn
WCU @ Gardner-Webb
UT Martin @Chattanooga
Samford @ Georgia

[dungeonjoe]

Wofford by 1 point over Open Date.

[Cat-in-GA]

Furman @ NC State - NC State wins by > 30
The Citadel @ ETSU - The Citadel wins by > 14
VMI @ Robert Morris - I want to pick VMI, but after seeing them lose to Catawba, RM wins by 3
Mercer @ Auburn - Good luck Mercer
Western Carolina @ Gardner-Webb - WCU wins by >21 and puts up more than 500 yds in total offense
UT Martin @ Chattanooga - This is going to be a close game. Chatt squeaks out a win by <4
Samford @ Georgia - This is going to be an ugly beatdown. UGA by >45

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

The Citadel @ ETSU - xcoffeex



If that happens, I'll be in a state of shock.

[FUBeAR]

Wofford by 1 point over Open Date.

...and the game will be even closer than the final score indicates!

[JSUSoutherner]

Wolfpack
Cadets
Keydets
Allbarn
Catamounts
Chatty Kathys
UGA
+1

[ElCid]

If that happens, I'll be in a state of shock.

He was just trolling. He picks against us every week. But far as our game goes, I think the way you guys stay close is by moving the sticks... slowly. We have some issues in pass defense so if you can knock out a few passes here and there and keep the ball away from our O, you can keep it close. Or if you find a way to stop us a few times. If our offense chews up 35-40 minute, it will be tough for you. We seem to be doing a lot of Qb switching as well, and I expect us to toss a few passes again ourselves. I really like having two very capable QBs. You will be better than Newberry and PC so I hope to see even more improvement from our oline. I may try and go to the game, but I may have to go to Chucktown and check on house.

[chattownmocs]

UT Martin isn't bad but I think UTC matches up well with them. We should finally be able to run the ball.

[woffordgrad94]

I've essentially seen the same Furman team both weeks. I'm a little amused by these folks that had us highly ranked last week after almost beating Wofford, and now have us at the bottom after almost not losing to Elon.

I could say that Furman spotted Elon three touchdowns early and dominated much of the game afterward. I could also point out that the SoCon refs absolutely screwed us late in the game. Those are just excuses. Furman played well enough to win, and lost a disheartening game to a beatable team.

Furman is incredibly young, with an entirely new coaching staff, and completely new systems on both sides of the ball (not just new coach running a similar system). They are going to have to lean how to close out games late. We are going to see growing pains like we did Saturday.

The NC State game may be ugly, but the goal is to keep getting better and cause trouble for the meat of the SoCon schedule.

I just don't get this "almost not losing" thing. They "almost didn't lose" to Wofford too. But FU still has a record of 0-2 overall and 0-1 in the SoCon. A loss is a loss and Elon was a bad loss. I can say that I almost did not lose the lottery...but I'm still not getting any money. Don't get me wrong, I still have mad respect for Furman, both as a good school and a football program with history...God knows they have blistered Wofford's behind many a time. I am quite sure that they will once again be a premiere program in the SoCon and in FCS as a whole at some point. But you can't like what you saw Saturday. Right now the team still has a ways to go, despite their "almost win" at Wofford. They will get there, and when that time comes, there will be hell to pay for the SoCon. But that time is not now...at least not in the eyes of this football fan.

[tenNesseeCat]

Furman @ NC State - by 35+
The Citadel @ ETSU -by 17+
VMI @ Robert Morris - by 14+
Mercer @ Auburn - by 35+
Western Carolina @ Gardner-Webb - by 21+
UT Martin @ Chattanooga - close
Samford @ Georgia - by 35+

[woffordgrad94]

Everyone but me seems to think that Western Carolina will blow out Gardner Webb on the road. And everyone else may very well be right. But I'm not sold on that. I know WCU is going to score but I think GWU is normally a tough scrappy bunch and that they can put quite a few points on the board against the Cats' defense as well. They also have the advantage of being at home. I actually like GWU in a close one here, in a game in which the scoreboard may stay quite busy. I guess time will tell.

[tenNesseeCat]

Everyone but me seems to think that Western Carolina will blow out Gardner Webb on the road. And everyone else may very well be right. But I'm not sold on that. I know WCU is going to score but I think GWU is normally a tough scrappy bunch and that they can put quite a few points on the board against the Cats' defense as well. They also have the advantage of being at home. I actually like GWU in a close one here, in a game in which the scoreboard may stay quite busy. I guess time will tell.

It wouldn't surprise me if it were close. Coming from a WCU fan, that can only happen if we play down. I just think we look better than we did last year, and GW doesn't look quite as good. With that said, we beat them 44-14 last year. Granted that was before the wheels fell off for WCU, and it was in Cullowhee. They've been out scored 72-3 in their first 2 games. They only had 114 yard of offense against A&T, who's pretty solid. They didn't cross mid field until the 4th quarter. I just don't think they will be able to slow us down all that much, and I think our D is improved enough to limit them. Any less than 35-14 and I'll be nervous. It should be more like 38-7.

[walliver]

Power Rankings:
1) Wofford - 2-0 against real FCS teams - have played very poorly at times, but still two wins
2) The Citadel - 1-0 against real FCS, although their D2 was a better team - lucky for PC the Bronze Derby game is no longer played
3) Samford - 1-0 against real FCS - Kennesaw State is a decent team. My opinion on the team is still haunted by last years end of season meltdown.
4) Chattanooga - no real FCS wins so far - team will improve when #1 QB comes back
5) Mercer - no real FCS wins yet
6) WCU - no real FCS wins although they do have a beatdown win against a pretender
7) Furman - you have to win to move up. Hasn't played a complete game yet.
8) ETSU - no real FCS wins, they did beat their D2 opponent
9) VMI - D2 losses happen every now and then, but a D2 loss to Catawba in unacceptable.

This week:
FU at NC State - The horsies can keep it close for a quarter or two, especially if the option works, but they have depth problems with FCS teams, and it will be much worse against an ACC team - Wolfies win by 28
The Citadel at ETSU - this is likely the best team the bullpups have played so far, but bellhops still are heavy favorites and win by 21
VMI at Robert Morris - Maybe the Keydets get their act together this week, but it seems like the post-Cobb Keydets are the old team everybody scheduled for homecoming. Bobs win by 7.
Mercer at Auburn - The Bama Tiggers will be pissed off after last weeks loss. They may not score beaucoups of points, but Mercer may not score at all. Cubs lose by 21.
WCU at Gardner-Webb - Cants aren't bad, but GW hasn't done much this year and Cants mount bullpups and win by 14
UT-Martin at Chatty - Trainbirds pull out their first win by 14
Samford at Georgia - Bama pups throw ball all over field, but may not stop Peachy Pups on a single drive and loss by 31
BYE at Wofford - Wofford skips first half and comes back in the end to win by 1


note: I consider a "real FCS" team to be a FBS "counter". Pioneer's need not apply.

[PaladinFan]

I just don't get this "almost not losing" thing. They "almost didn't lose" to Wofford too. But FU still has a record of 0-2 overall and 0-1 in the SoCon. A loss is a loss and Elon was a bad loss. I can say that I almost did not lose the lottery...but I'm still not getting any money. Don't get me wrong, I still have mad respect for Furman, both as a good school and a football program with history...God knows they have blistered Wofford's behind many a time. I am quite sure that they will once again be a premiere program in the SoCon and in FCS as a whole at some point. But you can't like what you saw Saturday. Right now the team still has a ways to go, despite their "almost win" at Wofford. They will get there, and when that time comes, there will be hell to pay for the SoCon. But that time is not now...at least not in the eyes of this football fan.

Of course. My only point is that after week 1 most folks on here had "hey, watch out for Furman." Some even ranked them as #2 on their power rankings. The next week, they play a similar game and lose to Elon. Now everyone has them at the bottom. From my view, the team looked very similar in both games.

The game Saturday was a strange one. Elon isn't a top team, but they aren't a pushover. They got after Furman early and the Paladins obliged by coughing the ball up twice deep in their territory leading to easy Phoenix scores. Elon was marching to go up 28-0 before Anoor picked off a pass at the goal line. After that, it was all Furman for much of the next few quarters. Just like against Wofford, the defense started to wear down late in the game.

I don't disagree that the team has a ways to go. I didn't dislike what I saw, though. Furman played like crap for about 10 minutes in the first quarter, and largely played well much of the rest of the game. They made some crippling late mistakes that cost them the game. I can live with a young team making full speed mistakes out there. Those will get corrected. Your margin for error decreases drastically when you spot a team three touchdowns.

The reality is Furman has two more tough games in a row against NC State and a better-than-expected Colgate. They are still 0-1 in the SoCon and control their destiny. They may have a 3 win season, but I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing.

[Catamount87]

Everyone but me seems to think that Western Carolina will blow out Gardner Webb on the road. And everyone else may very well be right. But I'm not sold on that. I know WCU is going to score but I think GWU is normally a tough scrappy bunch and that they can put quite a few points on the board against the Cats' defense as well. They also have the advantage of being at home. I actually like GWU in a close one here, in a game in which the scoreboard may stay quite busy. I guess time will tell.

The difference between last year's team and this year's team is defense. Last year the DC turned it into a dumpster fire. The guys got to a point where they didn't know which way was up. Wiley has turned that around. Yes, we still have issues with depth and run defense but not like last year's dumpster fire.

GW did keep it close for a half last year but in the end, our offensive firepower and a balanced offensive attack beat them down.



Of course. My only point is that after week 1 most folks on here had "hey, watch out for Furman." Some even ranked them as #2 on their power rankings. The next week, they play a similar game and lose to Elon. Now everyone has them at the bottom. From my view, the team looked very similar in both games.

The game Saturday was a strange one. Elon isn't a top team, but they aren't a pushover. They got after Furman early and the Paladins obliged by coughing the ball up twice deep in their territory leading to easy Phoenix scores. Elon was marching to go up 28-0 before Anoor picked off a pass at the goal line. After that, it was all Furman for much of the next few quarters. Just like against Wofford, the defense started to wear down late in the game.

I don't disagree that the team has a ways to go. I didn't dislike what I saw, though. Furman played like crap for about 10 minutes in the first quarter, and largely played well much of the rest of the game. They made some crippling late mistakes that cost them the game. I can live with a young team making full speed mistakes out there. Those will get corrected. Your margin for error decreases drastically when you spot a team three touchdowns.

The reality is Furman has two more tough games in a row against NC State and a better-than-expected Colgate. They are still 0-1 in the SoCon and control their destiny. They may have a 3 win season, but I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing.

Man oh man can Catamount fans relate. So many similarities between Furman 2017 and WCU 2013, enough heart, talent and coaching to keep it close but not quite enough depth, experience and confidence to get over the hump.

[FUBeAR]

Power Rankings:
1) Wofford - 2-0 against real FCS teams - have played very poorly at times, but still two wins
2) The Citadel - 1-0 against real FCS, although their D2 was a better team - lucky for PC the Bronze Derby game is no longer played
3) Samford - 1-0 against real FCS - Kennesaw State is a decent team. My opinion on the team is still haunted by last years end of season meltdown.
4) Chattanooga - no real FCS wins so far - team will improve when #1 QB comes back
5) Mercer - no real FCS wins yet
6) WCU - no real FCS wins although they do have a beatdown win against a pretender
7) Furman - you have to win to move up. Hasn't played a complete game yet.
8) ETSU - no real FCS wins, they did beat their D2 opponent
9) VMI - D2 losses happen every now and then, but a D2 loss to Catawba in unacceptable.

note: I consider a "real FCS" team to be a FBS "counter". Pioneer's need not apply.

This is a very logical methodology for ranking SoCon Teams at this point in the season. I like it.

If you would indulge me, I would be very interested in where you would rank Wofford, Furman, and Mercer in the cases of one, or the other, and both of the following events occurring. No other changes with any of the other Teams/Games

* If Furman converts the 2 point conversion only - meaning Wofford is 1-1 with 1 'FCS win' as is Furman and Mercer is unchanged at 1-1 with no 'FCS wins'

* Mercer doesn't blow the 98.9% win probability they had with 8:12 remaining in the game & beats Wofford by 1 or 2 TD's (only) - meaning Mercer is 2-0 with 1 FCS win, Wofford is 1-1 with 1 FCS win & FU is 0-2

* Both of the above happen - meaning Mercer is 2-0 with 1 FCS win, FU is 1-1 with 1 FCS win, & Wofford is 0-2

i recognize this is an exercise in the hypothetical, but as I do think you've come up with a very sound ranking 'system' for the current SoCon situation, I'm just interested in how you would apply that to these 3 hypotheticals.

[Smitty]

Power Rankings:
1) The Citadel
2) Wofford
3) Samford
4) Chattanooga
5) WCU
6) Mercer
7) Furman
8) ETSU
9) VMI


Furman at NC State - Over early
The Citadel at ETSU - I would love to see the faces of Citadel fans if ETSU wins, but ETSU won't
VMI at Robert Morris - VMI is sad
Mercer at Auburn - As much as Mercer fans want to be competitive the game will be over by the half
WCU at Gardner-Webb - For the love of all that is holy, don't screw this up...
UT-Martin at Chatty - UTC pulls away in the second half to win
Samford at Georgia - I'm thinking Samford is kept below 10 points

[PaladinFan]

This is a very logical methodology for ranking SoCon Teams at this point in the season. I like it.

If you would indulge me, I would be very interested in where you would rank Wofford, Furman, and Mercer in the cases of one, or the other, and both of the following events occurring. No other changes with any of the other Teams/Games

* If Furman converts the 2 point conversion only - meaning Wofford is 1-1 with 1 'FCS win' as is Furman and Mercer is unchanged at 1-1 with no 'FCS wins'

* Mercer doesn't blow the 98.9% win probability they had with 8:12 remaining in the game & beats Wofford by 1 or 2 TD's (only) - meaning Mercer is 2-0 with 1 FCS win, Wofford is 1-1 with 1 FCS win & FU is 0-2

* Both of the above happen - meaning Mercer is 2-0 with 1 FCS win, FU is 1-1 with 1 FCS win, & Wofford is 0-2

i recognize this is an exercise in the hypothetical, but as I do think you've come up with a very sound ranking 'system' for the current SoCon situation, I'm just interested in how you would apply that to these 3 hypotheticals.

Interesting stat re Mercer.

Mercer's last three games have come against Wofford, Jacksonville, and Furman (last season). In two of those games (Wofford and Furman), the win probability has been in the 90s for the team that eventually lost. Furman's win probability last year was 93.4%. Mercer's was 98.8% Both teams lost.

[PaladinFan]

Kind of a wait and see thing, but the SoCon is showing off some pretty electric offensive players right now.

Last season, six guys averaged 100 all purpose yards per game. This season 10 players are averaging over 100 yards.

Two guys are really lighting it up, WCU's Newsome (217 ypg) and Furman's Gordon (177.5 ypg). Newsome is predictably having another good start to the season. Gordon may be a guy that holds a bunch of Furman records before he's done in Greenville.

[JSUSoutherner]

UT Martin isn't bad but I think UTC matches up well with them. We should finally be able to run the ball.

Still not sure what to make of Martin. Shea Patterson for Ole Miss has been TORCHING everyone so far this year. So far he has 918 yards, 9TDs, and 1 pick through 2 games. UTM did hold Ole Miss to 3 YPC while the Skyhawks averaged 5 YPC and held the ball for 38 minutes.

Should definitely be an interesting game to watch. Ideal scenario would be for you guys to lose and go on to win the SoCon so I will be rooting for Martin this weekend. It wouldn't surprise me if you whip them though. You guys have a good defense.

[Reign of Terrier]

The thing with power rankings is that our main intuition is to rank teams using a transitive property. Team A>B Team B>C ergo Team A>C.

But that's not how it works (As FuBear pointed out). Teams have strengths and weaknesses, preferred matchups, and the randomness of circumstances has an impact on the outcome as well. All of these have to be factored in to any assessment of power rankings.

Right now, we don't have enough information about any team (and probably won't until 3/4 of the way through the season) to have an accurate power ranking, so a lot of it is "what have they done lately" (the overall record), cross referenced with a beauty pageant score (i.e the "eye test").

With that in mind, I'd rank them as follows:

1) Citadel: what puts them above Wofford and Samford is the comfort they've had in their victories. It's likely they had inferior competition, but they've been in full control of their games thus far.
2) Wofford: Two wins is two wins. Unlike Samford, the quality of the opponents was decent, and that puts them ahead.
3) Samford: They are 2-0, and unlike Mercer and Western they have a victory against a team with scholarships
4) Mercer: Not a bad showing against Wofford. They would probably be in the top 2 had they won (and that speaks to the volatility of these power rankings given the amount of uncertainty we have right now)
5) Western: Good win against Davidson, but they're not going to rush for as many yards as they did against anyone. I'd say we know the least about Western than any team, sans ETSU.
6) Chatt: We know only slightly more about Chatt than Western or ETSU, but they are 0-2 and don't look too good right now.
7) Furman: 2 losses by a total of 4 points isn't much to sneeze at, but LSU is better than Wofford and JSU is better than Elon. Chatt gets the benefit of the doubt in that they may be a lot better than they look right now, but Furman looks average
8) ETSU: They beat a team they should have and got whipped by a team that should have whipped them. JMU will whip a lot of good teams, so I can't say how bad they are based upon that. Though Chatt and Furman have no wins, I don't rank D2 win above them. That, combined with the poor performance of last year is why they are ranked this low.
9) VMI: They're really bad, I'm sorry, no nuance here.

I think the top 4 will be the top 4 at the end of the year. They may rotate but those 4 teams will be at the top. The middle 3 will rotate, but I'm confident those teams will be at that point. I would be very surprised if either VMI or ETSU finished higher than 8th in the conference. Of the middle 3, I think Western is the most likely to jump to the top tier and of the top 4, I think Samford is the most likely to plummet to the middle tier. Though some may say Wofford has had a poor performance so far, I don't think it's arrogant to say they have at a least a .500 year in the Socon locked down.

As I said, all of this is speculative and could change week-to-week, I don't anticipate having enough confidence to do a precise power ranking until, like, week 7 or 8 or so.

[Reign of Terrier]

Interesting stat re Mercer.

Mercer's last three games have come against Wofford, Jacksonville, and Furman (last season). In two of those games (Wofford and Furman), the win probability has been in the 90s for the team that eventually lost. Furman's win probability last year was 93.4%. Mercer's was 98.8% Both teams lost.

Something like 10 or 11 of Mercer's 17 Socon losses have come from 10 points or less. I'd give Lamb another year or two to produce a playoff team or championship team, but if he doesn't there's good reason to fire him simply for being unable to finish.

[walliver]

Something like 10 or 11 of Mercer's 17 Socon losses have come from 10 points or less. I'd give Lamb another year or two to produce a playoff team or championship team, but if he doesn't there's good reason to fire him simply for being unable to finish.

It took a number of years for Huesman to win the "big games" at Chatty. Lamb has a few more years before the heat gets turned up. Mercer is a well coached team, but hasn't developed a big game mentality yet.


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[BearDownMU]

Something like 10 or 11 of Mercer's 17 Socon losses have come from 10 points or less. I'd give Lamb another year or two to produce a playoff team or championship team, but if he doesn't there's good reason to fire him simply for being unable to finish.

However, every team is different. Last season was 30 seniors, but the vast majority of them were kids that came to Mercer as non-scholarship players. This is the first season where everyone on the team was recruited to play at Mercer with a scholarship. So, really, we are just now starting to see the Lamb Era "matured", as it were. I still think it's remarkable what has been accomplished so far given the nature of the players over the last three years, with so many coming as a start up program.

As far as this year is concerned, there are certainly plenty of things to clean up, but, to me, the biggest thing to consider about last weeks loss was this. Freshman QB. Something that a lot of schools have to deal with. A number of "young" errors in the 2nd half (particularly the 3 INT's) were really not great decisions. Not unusual for a rookie QB's. Not that I'm looking for excuses, but I think it's easier to start talking about "can't finish" than to look at the culmination of factors that contribute to a loss. Mind you, this is taking nothing away from Wofford. They played their hearts out and got it done, on the road, in conference. Not easy and I was impressed with their mettle.

But, again, given the life cycle of the program, I think we are just seeing the maturing years of the program now. the next 3-4 years will be telling, for sure.

[PaladinFan]

Something like 10 or 11 of Mercer's 17 Socon losses have come from 10 points or less. I'd give Lamb another year or two to produce a playoff team or championship team, but if he doesn't there's good reason to fire him simply for being unable to finish.

As someone who watched nearly every game Lamb coached for the better part of 10+ years, that's been my experience.

[Reign of Terrier]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Lamb's on the hot seat yet (or should be), just that if this close-game-loss-against-good-teams trend continues (again, he's only beaten one team with a winning record in the Socon in 4 years) into, say, 2018, the seat should heat up a bit.

[PaladinFan]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Lamb's on the hot seat yet (or should be), just that if this close-game-loss-against-good-teams trend continues (again, he's only beaten one team with a winning record in the Socon in 4 years) into, say, 2018, the seat should heat up a bit.

I don't think he was ever really on the "hot seat" at Furman either. After 9 seasons of increasing mediocrity, the school just decided to go in another direction.

While I like Lamb, I do think he and Chris Hatcher are both coaches where you know what you are getting. Hatcher's teams don't play a lot of defense. Really, none of them have (at least in the FCS). When you hire Chris Hatcher, you get a quality offensive coach whose teams don't play defense.

As an FCS head coach, Bobby Lamb has been at or within one game of a .500 record in 8 of 13 completed seasons. Safe money (in my opinion) will be on that becoming 9 of 14 after this season. Maybe he elevates Mercer to the next level, but history suggests he won't. Like Hatcher, you sort of know what you are getting.

Just my opinion.

[ElCid]

I sure hope the whacky travel does not hurt my Dogs this coming week. After traveling early and playing on the road unexpectedly, they spent some more time upstate for the hurricane and now they head back to Charleston for an abbreviated practice week before traveling again, this time to Johnson City. Persevere Dogs! The bye week after ETSU comes at a good time!

[Mocdaddy]

North Carolina State
The Citadel
Robert Morris
Auburn
Western Carolina
Chattanooga
Georgia

[Toby]

Something like 10 or 11 of Mercer's 17 Socon losses have come from 10 points or less. I'd give Lamb another year or two to produce a playoff team or championship team, but if he doesn't there's good reason to fire him simply for being unable to finish.

Not much to argue about here. Mercer has been close time after time and hasn't finished. The last one was a complete 4th quarter disaster (both offense and defense) after playing an outstanding 3 1/2 quarters. I think it is the manner of the collapse that is so disappointing. It is still a long season and time to fix problems, but it is time for this coaching staff to produce. The talent is there and has been there for a while now. I hope they can get over this hump and take the program to the next level, but I think Mercer is going to have to "out talent" the SoCon to win cause we aren't going to "out coach" them.

[walliver]

This is a very logical methodology for ranking SoCon Teams at this point in the season. I like it.

If you would indulge me, I would be very interested in where you would rank Wofford, Furman, and Mercer in the cases of one, or the other, and both of the following events occurring. No other changes with any of the other Teams/Games

* If Furman converts the 2 point conversion only - meaning Wofford is 1-1 with 1 'FCS win' as is Furman and Mercer is unchanged at 1-1 with no 'FCS wins'

* Mercer doesn't blow the 98.9% win probability they had with 8:12 remaining in the game & beats Wofford by 1 or 2 TD's (only) - meaning Mercer is 2-0 with 1 FCS win, Wofford is 1-1 with 1 FCS win & FU is 0-2

* Both of the above happen - meaning Mercer is 2-0 with 1 FCS win, FU is 1-1 with 1 FCS win, & Wofford is 0-2

i recognize this is an exercise in the hypothetical, but as I do think you've come up with a very sound ranking 'system' for the current SoCon situation, I'm just interested in how you would apply that to these 3 hypotheticals.

IF FU had won, I would have put them at 4 or 5 (it would be hard to put them above above undefeated Citadel and Samford as well as a Chatty team that lost to a good JSU team). The Elon loss would have bumped them down.

IF Mercer had won, I would have moved them up to the same area (Citadel and Sammy are still undefeated and I didn't expect much in the Chatty game).

Please, please, pick against us for the rest of the season:).

Although we have had two near misses so far, our season reminds me of the Citadel last year ... a team that could easily have gone 5-3, but always found a way to win their conference games, even those in which they were plainly outplayed.

[ElCid]

1) Wofford - Still in the lead, especially with two SOCON wins
2) The Citadel - Looked way better this week
3) Samford - Slipped a little, even with win; should not have let WA score 20 in the 4th...really?; maybe some focus/motivation issues here
4) Mercer - Oh so close; should have won; got to wins those; they almost play better when they are behind
5) Chattanooga - a couple losses, but still pretty strong
6) Western Carolina - Nice offensive performance even if it was against Davidson; probably should not have let them score 17 though
7) Furman - Wow, they gave Elon the game in the 1st.....really?; still a work in progress apparently; not talent, but experience/consistency
8) ETSU - got hammered, as expected, but coming along
9) VMI - lots to do here

1-5 are all fairly close with not a lot of separation; all have an issue, or two, still to iron out; 6 is a bit behind, but closing; 7 a bit more; 8 not far behind, 9 is going the wrong way; there probably will not be much movement after this unless someone surprises ... or disappoints.


Predictions
Furman @ NC State - Hey, Furman is 2-0 the last two games against NC St. But that was a long time ago, in a galaxy far away; not this time, but it will not be as bad as some think - 38 - 17
The Citadel @ ETSU - Could be closer than expected; depends how well the Bulldogs stay focused with all the travel distractions - 37-13
VMI @ Robert Morris - VMI could always surprise, but they have issues - 24-17
Mercer @ Auburn - Auburn will run amok - 49-7
Western Carolina @ Gardner-Webb - Good test for the Cats; they should deliver - 38-24
UT Martin @ Chattanooga - UT-M is a good team, but the Mocs are hungry for a win - 31-21
Samford @ Georgia - Samford may score a bit, but their defense is not up to the challenge - 48-17

[ElCid]

Although we have had two near misses so far, our season reminds me of the Citadel last year ... a team that could easily have gone 5-3, but always found a way to win their conference games, even those in which they were plainly outplayed.

Yup. I have been thinking the same thing the last couple days. Every time I thought we would blow a game last year, either the O or D came through just when it was needed. It was a magical season. Hard to replicate. I would rather we did it again than you.:D

[FUBeAR]

Furman @ NC State - Hey, Furman is 2-0 the last two games against NC St.

3-1 in the last 4 games. I attended all 4.

I played in the "1"...0-26. I suck. 😒


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[PaladinFan]

3-1 in the last 4 games. I attended all 4.

I played in the "1"...0-26. I suck. 


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Games notes say that Furman is 8-4-4 against NCSU and 7-2-1 against them in Raleigh.

[tenNesseeCat]

6) Western Carolina - Nice offensive performance even if it was against Davidson; probably should not have let them score 17 though

I felt the same way, but then you look at the way the game actually played out. Davidson controlled the clock by nearly 10 minutes. Our D seemed to be on the field a lot, mainly due to how quick our O scored. We had scoring drives of, 3 plays 75 yards 0:50, 3 plays 94 yards 1:04, 4 plays 81 yards 1:35, 4 plays 38 yards 1:20. That's just the first quarter. 7 plays 79 yards 2:58, 5 plays 66 yards 1:29, 1 play 88 yards 0:13, 5 plays 66 yards 1:30, and 6 plays 65 yards 2:06 rounds out or scoring drives. I also know at least one of their scores came after a muffed punt by our return guy. In most cases, I don't think the D had time to get a drink of water before they had to go back out. It was a good problem to have to deal with I guess.

I'll add, that our D technically only gave up 35 to Hawaii. The special teams was what took us out of that game. 3 block FG attempts, one missed 29 yard field goal. one of the blocks was returned for a TD. It was a lot closer than the score indicated. We were within 2 scores and had the ball multiple times in the late 3rd and 4th quarters. Still had more yards than hawaii at just under 500. 3 turnovers hurt us as well. one in the 4th near mid field, only down 16. I thought our D did ok considering they were up against hawaii, jet lag, our kicking game, and our TO's.

[ElCid]

3-1 in the last 4 games. I attended all 4.

I played in the "1"...0-26. I suck. 


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xlolx Sorry dude. It's all about TIMING.......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=modfq47onwU

[ElCid]

I felt the same way, but then you look at the way the game actually played out. Davidson controlled the clock by nearly 10 minutes. Our D seemed to be on the field a lot, mainly due to how quick our O scored. We had scoring drives of, 3 plays 75 yards 0:50, 3 plays 94 yards 1:04, 4 plays 81 yards 1:35, 4 plays 38 yards 1:20. That's just the first quarter. 7 plays 79 yards 2:58, 5 plays 66 yards 1:29, 1 play 88 yards 0:13, 5 plays 66 yards 1:30, and 6 plays 65 yards 2:06 rounds out or scoring drives. I also know at least one of their scores came after a muffed punt by our return guy. In most cases, I don't think the D had time to get a drink of water before they had to go back out. It was a good problem to have to deal with I guess.

I'll add, that our D technically only gave up 35 to Hawaii. The special teams was what took us out of that game. 3 block FG attempts, one missed 29 yard field goal. one of the blocks was returned for a TD. It was a lot closer than the score indicated. We were within 2 scores and had the ball multiple times in the late 3rd and 4th quarters. Still had more yards than hawaii at just under 500. 3 turnovers hurt us as well. one in the 4th near mid field, only down 16. I thought our D did ok considering they were up against hawaii, jet lag, our kicking game, and our TO's.

Yup, I saw that. Good problem to have, scoring fast, but the D still needs to get the ball back for you. Kind of like another team in the SOCON which have a Bulldog for their mascot and do not wear uniforms to class. Also, like Furman, your guys just need to learn how to win again, consistently. Execution break downs are a killer. As a fan, I know how that feels.

[Reign of Terrier]

The thing with Western is that they're like Mercer in that you have no idea how good they'll be. They're different from Mercer in that the kind of game Western plays is higher margin of error: because Western plays tempo and high-octane Baylor-esque of an offense, the defense will naturally give up more points because of fatigue and opposing teams doing more big plays to keep up (to be fair, this is true of any team that passes well...see Samford, Texas Tech, etc). Mercer, on the other hand, plays a pro set playbook and can manage the game a little better. This is why I'm personally more intimidated by Mercer (and Furman) than Western by default (but that doesn't mean Western can't beat us...they can and have in the last few years).

Having said that, I can't really tell how good Western is right now. Davidson is not going to have the run defense of any Socon team (or division one team) so it's not surprising that Western was able to run all over them (literally). But because that is the case, the context of that game is so different from what they'll see in the Socon that it's not worth factoring into any calculation (same when any team plays a non-scholly team).

And the same goes for their game against Hawaii. Not only are performances against FBS teams not predictive of an FCS team's strength (Wofford beat Jacksonville state the year they beat Ole Miss, App State clobbered Wofford the year Wofford lost to U of SC by 10 and you could think of others), but Hawaii does not play the typical playbook either (high octane, lots of scoring, lots of fatigue and an increase of playcalling aimed at scoring a million points).

So, I'm looking forward to seeing Western play GWU (which I think they'll win) because I think it will give us our best point of reference to how good they are. I have a hypothesis that GWU isn't that good, but we won't have a good idea until after they play Western and Wofford.

[Catamount87]

The thing with Western is that they're like Mercer in that you have no idea how good they'll be. They're different from Mercer in that the kind of game Western plays is higher margin of error: because Western plays tempo and high-octane Baylor-esque of an offense, the defense will naturally give up more points because of fatigue and opposing teams doing more big plays to keep up (to be fair, this is true of any team that passes well...see Samford, Texas Tech, etc). Mercer, on the other hand, plays a pro set playbook and can manage the game a little better. This is why I'm personally more intimidated by Mercer (and Furman) than Western by default (but that doesn't mean Western can't beat us...they can and have in the last few years).

Having said that, I can't really tell how good Western is right now. Davidson is not going to have the run defense of any Socon team (or division one team) so it's not surprising that Western was able to run all over them (literally). But because that is the case, the context of that game is so different from what they'll see in the Socon that it's not worth factoring into any calculation (same when any team plays a non-scholly team).

And the same goes for their game against Hawaii. Not only are performances against FBS teams not predictive of an FCS team's strength (Wofford beat Jacksonville state the year they beat Ole Miss, App State clobbered Wofford the year Wofford lost to U of SC by 10 and you could think of others), but Hawaii does not play the typical playbook either (high octane, lots of scoring, lots of fatigue and an increase of playcalling aimed at scoring a million points).

So, I'm looking forward to seeing Western play GWU (which I think they'll win) because I think it will give us our best point of reference to how good they are. I have a hypothesis that GWU isn't that good, but we won't have a good idea until after they play Western and Wofford.

You summed it up well. All I can add is that the Catamount defense will be worlds better than last year's dumpster fire. How that translates into Ws & Ls is yet to be determined. But it's probably a good bet that WCU won't be a lowly 2-9 this year.

[PaladinFan]

You summed it up well. All I can add is that the Catamount defense will be worlds better than last year's dumpster fire. How that translates into Ws & Ls is yet to be determined. But it's probably a good bet that WCU won't be a lowly 2-9 this year.

After two weeks, though, I am not 100% certain about anything with the SoCon.

Maybe with the possible exception of VMI and ETSU, would anyone really be surprised to see any SoCon team beat another one this season? I think there's a scale of "good teams" to "less good," but I don't think the gap is a big one.

[PaladinFan]

Yup, I saw that. Good problem to have, scoring fast, but the D still needs to get the ball back for you. Kind of like another team in the SOCON which have a Bulldog for their mascot and do not wear uniforms to class. Also, like Furman, your guys just need to learn how to win again, consistently. Execution break downs are a killer. As a fan, I know how that feels.

That's something I've noticed as an intangible aspect of a team.

Furman hasn't always won, but there were years where they went into every game expecting to win. For the last few years, the team has gone in hoping to win. It is probably not too far out there to say that this current crop of Furman seniors might have lost more football games than any Furman class in history. It's hard to shake out of that when that's all you know.

I've heard a number of reports that Clay Hendrix has made a concerted effort to reach back out to former players. He's shown the current team videos from when Paladin Stadium was one of the most intimidating venues in FCS football. You have to build back that confidence brick by brick. Teams have won here and can do so again.

[citdog]

That's something I've noticed as an intangible aspect of a team.

Furman hasn't always won, but there were years where they went into every game expecting to win. For the last few years, the team has gone in hoping to win. It is probably not too far out there to say that this current crop of Furman seniors might have lost more football games than any Furman class in history. It's hard to shake out of that when that's all you know.

I've heard a number of reports that Clay Hendrix has made a concerted effort to reach back out to former players. He's shown the current team videos from when Paladin Stadium was one of the most intimidating venues in FCS football. You have to build back that confidence brick by brick. Teams have won here and can do so again.

Dude nobody apppreciates the "old times they are not forgotten" schtick more than I but pray tell exactly WHEN was your stadium enviroment intimidating?

[walliver]

Dude nobody apppreciates the "old times they are not forgotten" schtick more than I but pray tell exactly WHEN was your stadium enviroment intimidating?

If you sit in the visitors stand in October or November the direct sunlight in your eyes can be intimidating.

[PaladinFan]

Dude nobody apppreciates the "old times they are not forgotten" schtick more than I but pray tell exactly WHEN was your stadium enviroment intimidating?

Furman is 167-57-1 in Paladin Stadium (.737 win percentage). The stadium opened in 1981. From the first game until the arbitrarily identified start to the current "dark period" after the 2008 season (1981-2008), Furman was 141-35-1.

I don't know if you were personally intimidated, but for over 25 years Furman won over 80% of their games in Paladin Stadium. I'm sure quite a few programs would take that run at home.

[PaladinFan]

If you sit in the visitors stand in October or November the direct sunlight in your eyes can be intimidating.

I won't hear of it from a Wofford fan. I nearly went blind at your park one day.

[woffordgrad94]

Wear some sunglasses

[citdog]

Start handling serpents in the pregame. That would be intimidating.

[Reign of Terrier]

There are some indicators that Furman has punched above their weight in terms of fan enthusiasm. When you're as small as them and still have a stadium of 15k or so (and sometimes get that many fans, albeit very rarely or in the past) that's impressive.

My contrarian take is that the actual fan element for home field advantage for 95% of FCS games is marginal to nonexistent. I'd say the only one in the Socon worth mentioning is the Citadel and on a good day *maybe* Mercer. I've seen Mercer fans in basketball be pretty lit, but when it comes to football, every time I see them on ESPN3 their attendance is barely better than your average Socon game.

Admittedly, there are non-crowd-related advantages to playing on your home field, but crowd participation is a data point I am highly skeptical of with the exception of the cream of the crop in FCS (Montana, NDSU, etc)

[The Cats]

Predictions
Furman @ NC State - Wolfpack wins big
The Citadel @ ETSU - Bulldogs roll
VMI @ Robert Morris - Keydets rebound
Mercer @ Auburn - No question who wins
Western Carolina @ Gardner-Webb - Cats pick up that hard road win
UT Martin @ Chattanooga - Mocs get one
Samford @ Georgia - Georgia bulldogs thinking scrimmage

[citdog]

Pictures from when furman was good.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prBXNwxjU4I

[Toby]

So kudos to the Mercer student paper, The Mercer Cluster, that expresses their frustration and gets this right. Mercer has great talent that isn't being used to its potential(implied). This is a really good article and better than anything written in the "paid" press.
https://mercercluster.com/22035/showcase/the-ruling-why-does-this-keep-happening/

[Toby]

There are some indicators that Furman has punched above their weight in terms of fan enthusiasm. When you're as small as them and still have a stadium of 15k or so (and sometimes get that many fans, albeit very rarely or in the past) that's impressive.

My contrarian take is that the actual fan element for home field advantage for 95% of FCS games is marginal to nonexistent. I'd say the only one in the Socon worth mentioning is the Citadel and on a good day *maybe* Mercer. I've seen Mercer fans in basketball be pretty lit, but when it comes to football, every time I see them on ESPN3 their attendance is barely better than your average Socon game.

Admittedly, there are non-crowd-related advantages to playing on your home field, but crowd participation is a data point I am highly skeptical of with the exception of the cream of the crop in FCS (Montana, NDSU, etc)

Speaking of crowds and stadiums, Mercer set a record Saturday versus Wofford. They must have had a successful uptake on the Irma refugees offer.

[DoWe]

Pictures from when furman was good.
You damn well know furman was good much more recently. Why do you diminish your own credibility?

[citdog]

You damn well know furman was good much more recently. Why do you diminish your own credibility?

I don't need ANYBODIES help to do that xlolx.

furman sucks

[FUBeAR]

Speaking of crowds and stadiums, Mercer set a record Saturday versus Wofford. They must have had a successful uptake on the Irma refugees offer.

They also set a record for being the quietest home crowd of that size with the game on the line in the history of college football.

Maybe it was all the evacuees, who were neutral observers, but I don't think so.

Mercer's Five Star Stadium COULD have that home field advantage that we've started talking about in this thread, but they just need to "RELEASE THE HOUNDS" or, paraphrasing an old song by Funkadelic..."Shucks! Gosh Jeem! Get off your Rear and SCREAM!" ...or something like that...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRwTP1gT6_4

[FUBeAR]

Pictures from when furman was good.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prBXNwxjU4I

Here's another picture of that...

https://s26.postimg.org/5oqleja5l/IMG_0104.png

[citdog]

Here's another picture of that...

https://s26.postimg.org/5oqleja5l/IMG_0104.png

Recent results???

[ElCid]

Here's another picture of that...

https://s26.postimg.org/5oqleja5l/IMG_0104.png

The 1981 game was the first game against Furman that I was at, as a knob. Timing baby! I also have good memories of the 1982 game, even if we lost, as I met my future wife later that night over in Sparkle City.

[citdog]

The 1981 game was the first game against Furman that I was at, as a knob. Timing baby! I also have good memories of the 1982 game, even if we lost, as I met my future wife later that night over in Sparkle City.

I am MUCH younger than you and the first furman vs The Citadel game I remember is the 1978 game. My mother is furmanite scum but made a VERY good choice for a husband...

[OL FU]

You should only listen to citdog if you are buying him a drink. There is then at least a 20% chance he will be reasonable. Which ain't sayin much

[OL FU]

I am MUCH younger than you and the first furman vs The Citadel game I remember is the 1978 game. My mother is furmanite scum but made a VERY good choice for a husband...

****ed up when it came to offspring though

[citdog]

****ed up when it came to offspring though


There is no accounting for TASTE. "That boy just doesn't know how to do". My furman scum Grandmother said MORE than once about me....

[FUBeAR]

I also have good memories of the 1982 game, even if we lost, as I met my future wife later that night over in Sparkle City.

Funny, on the same day you met your wife, I was busy making the bellhop D-Front act as my wives; one final time. :p

[Scrappy94]

Power Ranking:

1. Wofford - Two close games. Two close wins. If the Terriers keep having close games, chances are they will lose some of them. May not be #1 for long if this keeps up. Still 2-0 keeps them here...for now.
2. The Citadel - Two wins. One in a struggle vs a non-D1, and another in a dominating performance vs a bad FCS team. Hard to say how well the Bulldogs are this year with only playing weak teams so far, yet they are 2-0, so at #2 they go.
3. Chattanooga - May be the best 0-2 team in the FCS, and possibly has had the toughest schedule so far. A loss to a top 5 FCS team and the FBS #12 team (and possibly College Football Playoff contender). The offense hasn't had a chance to get into rhythm against one of the top defenses in the FCS and one of the top defenses in the FBS. Look for the offense start to click this week. Things will clear up this week. This team is battle tested and ready to make some noise. The winning streak starts this week.
4. Mercer - Had a close loss to the preseason favorite. Looks to possibly be a SoCon title contender this year, or maybe Wofford is not as good as expected.
5. Samford - A narrow win vs a non-D1 team... Different week, same story. No run game. No defense. They may put up a lot of points, but it's also easy put points up on them. With a lack of defense, this team is not a SoCon title contender.
6. Western Carolina - Hard to say with this team right now. Loss to an FBS and win vs a non-scholarship team. Might be more clear after this week.
7. Furman - A close loss to a bad team. Possibly still had the Wofford loss on their mind, or maybe this Furman team isn't improved and Wofford is not a strong as we thought.
8. ETSU - Did not look good vs the reigning national champs. Almost looked like an FCS vs FBS matchup.
9. VMI - Lost to a DII. What else is there to say?

Predictions:

Furman @ NC State 42-10 - No contest. Won't know much more about this Furman team after this week either, unless they somehow pull off the upset...not gonna happen.
The Citadel @ ETSU 28-10 - May be closer than expected, but still not much of a contest.
VMI @ Robert Morris 17-14 - I think VMI manages a close win, and avoids the prospect of a winless season.
Mercer @ Auburn 48-3 - The athleticism difference is too great to overcome. No contest.
Western Carolina @ Gardner-Webb 27-24 - As much as I would like WCU to win this one for the sake of the SoCon, my gut feeling says they drop this one.
UT-Martin @ Chattanooga 34-17 - Mocs finally get a game against a team without one of the top defenses, so look for the offense to finally get into rhythm and put up points. Defense will be strong as usual. The Skyhawks may have a good RB, but it won't be as tough to stop him as it was against a JSU's Roc Thomas (we held him in check except for his one big run. Take away his one big run, and he only gains 48 yards on 18 carries.) or LSU's Heisman candidate, Derrius Guice. The defense is used to defending the run after being battle tested vs good run games the previous 2 games, and will take care of business. 1st home game of the year, and 1st home game for new head coach Tom Arth. From what I've seen and heard, the team is fired up to finally play at home. Look for the Mocs to win big.
Samford @ Georgia 55-10 - The Georgia offense is going to have a field day against the non-existent Samford defense.

[cx500d]

Funny, on the same day you met your wife, I was busy making the bellhop D-Front act as my wives; one final time. :p

I think I had a one night stand with NotTru's mom that night.


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[CID1990]

Funny, on the same day you met your wife, I was busy making the bellhop D-Front act as my wives; one final time. :p

Were their buttholes tighter in 82 than yours was in 81?


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[FUBeAR]

Were their buttholes tighter in 82 than yours was in 81?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dunno, but they were making me my 4th sandwich & getting me my 4th beer.

[citdog]

Power Ranking:

1. Wofford - Two close games. Two close wins. If the Terriers keep having close games, chances are they will lose some of them. May not be #1 for long if this keeps up. Still 2-0 keeps them here...for now.
2. The Citadel - Two wins. One in a struggle vs a non-D1, and another in a dominating performance vs a bad FCS team. Hard to say how well the Bulldogs are this year with only playing weak teams so far, yet they are 2-0, so at #2 they go.
3. Chattanooga - May be the best 0-2 team in the FCS, and possibly has had the toughest schedule so far. A loss to a top 5 FCS team and the FBS #12 team (and possibly College Football Playoff contender). The offense hasn't had a chance to get into rhythm against one of the top defenses in the FCS and one of the top defenses in the FBS. Look for the offense start to click this week. Things will clear up this week. This team is battle tested and ready to make some noise. The winning streak starts this week.
4. Mercer - Had a close loss to the preseason favorite. Looks to possibly be a SoCon title contender this year, or maybe Wofford is not as good as expected.
5. Samford - A narrow win vs a non-D1 team... Different week, same story. No run game. No defense. They may put up a lot of points, but it's also easy put points up on them. With a lack of defense, this team is not a SoCon title contender.
6. Western Carolina - Hard to say with this team right now. Loss to an FBS and win vs a non-scholarship team. Might be more clear after this week.
7. Furman - A close loss to a bad team. Possibly still had the Wofford loss on their mind, or maybe this Furman team isn't improved and Wofford is not a strong as we thought.
8. ETSU - Did not look good vs the reigning national champs. Almost looked like an FCS vs FBS matchup.
9. VMI - Lost to a DII. What else is there to say?

Predictions:

Furman @ NC State 42-10 - No contest. Won't know much more about this Furman team after this week either, unless they somehow pull off the upset...not gonna happen.
The Citadel @ ETSU 28-10 - May be closer than expected, but still not much of a contest.
VMI @ Robert Morris 17-14 - I think VMI manages a close win, and avoids the prospect of a winless season.
Mercer @ Auburn 48-3 - The athleticism difference is too great to overcome. No contest.
Western Carolina @ Gardner-Webb 27-24 - As much as I would like WCU to win this one for the sake of the SoCon, my gut feeling says they drop this one.
UT-Martin @ Chattanooga 34-17 - Mocs finally get a game against a team without one of the top defenses, so look for the offense to finally get into rhythm and put up points. Defense will be strong as usual. The Skyhawks may have a good RB, but it won't be as tough to stop him as it was against a JSU's Roc Thomas (we held him in check except for his one big run. Take away his one big run, and he only gains 48 yards on 18 carries.) or LSU's Heisman candidate, Derrius Guice. The defense is used to defending the run after being battle tested vs good run games the previous 2 games, and will take care of business. 1st home game of the year, and 1st home game for new head coach Tom Arth. From what I've seen and heard, the team is fired up to finally play at home. Look for the Mocs to win big.
Samford @ Georgia 55-10 - The Georgia offense is going to have a field day against the non-existent Samford defense.

Thanks for the chatty soliloquy. ☆☆☆☆☆☆ English Major...

[Scrappy94]

English Major

Guess again.

[citdog]

Guess again.

Buggery?

[FUBeAR]

Recent results???

C'mon man. You know that shortly after the 80's closed out, the whole world began to turn to shiite. Why would we even want to think about ANYTHING much after 1990?

No sir, I prefer to live my life contemplating this...and earlier.


https://youtu.be/9SOryJvTAGs

[ElCid]

I am MUCH younger than you and the first furman vs The Citadel game I remember is the 1978 game. My mother is furmanite scum but made a VERY good choice for a husband...

First game I saw was that year. I think against WCU. Also, the first day I had ever been to The Citadel was the day I showed up. Yeah, my wife almost went to Furman or Clemson, but decided on Converse instead.

[FUBeAR]

Yeah, my wife almost went to Furman or Clemson, but decided on Converse instead.

Converse, huh? I might know her. Is she 3 feet tall, have a flat head, and no teeth? (You'll get that tomorrow...and...laaaaaugh)

Just kidding, but speaking of tomorrow, it's THURSDAY, right?

What time does Samford kickoff against Vestavia HS JV?

I gotta get my picks in before then!

[CID1990]

First game I saw was that year. I think against WCU. Also, the first day I had ever been to The Citadel was the day I showed up. Yeah, my wife almost went to Furman or Clemson, but decided on Converse instead.

I was destined for either UNC, NC State, Elon, or the USNA

then my uncle who was a squadron commander at MCAS Beaufort suggested I check out The Citadel

After my visitor weekend I stopped opening mail from the other schools and declined the Navy appt from my Congressman- Tim Valentine.... who ironically was a graduate of El Cid

my first game was also my first as a knob


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[cx500d]

I was destined for either UNC, NC State, Elon, or the USNA

then my uncle who was a squadron commander at MCAS Beaufort suggested I check out The Citadel

After my visitor weekend I stopped opening mail from the other schools and declined the Navy appt from my Congressman- Tim Valentine.... who ironically was a graduate of El Cid

my first game was also my first as a knob


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Was his call sign "the great santini"


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[PaladinFan]

There are some indicators that Furman has punched above their weight in terms of fan enthusiasm. When you're as small as them and still have a stadium of 15k or so (and sometimes get that many fans, albeit very rarely or in the past) that's impressive.

My contrarian take is that the actual fan element for home field advantage for 95% of FCS games is marginal to nonexistent. I'd say the only one in the Socon worth mentioning is the Citadel and on a good day *maybe* Mercer. I've seen Mercer fans in basketball be pretty lit, but when it comes to football, every time I see them on ESPN3 their attendance is barely better than your average Socon game.

Admittedly, there are non-crowd-related advantages to playing on your home field, but crowd participation is a data point I am highly skeptical of with the exception of the cream of the crop in FCS (Montana, NDSU, etc)

Hard to say. Furman's attendance numbers started to drop precipitously when the team entered full-on mediocrity. Last season, they averaged around 5-6k fans per home game. In 2004 they were up around 13-14k for the regular season. From 2003 until 2007 Furman only had 3 regular season home games with attendance under 10k.

I don't think they were punching above their weight. Furman has a small student body, but consistently had impressive draws for home games when the team was good. It's a tough product to sell right now, though. It doesn't take many 3 or 4 win seasons (and Clemson crushing everyone) before the fans tell you to give them a call when things turnaround.

I think there's room to come back, though. The end of the Bruce Fowler era was arguably the lowest point in anyone's memory for the program. I do think that once the team starts coming back, you'll see the fans come back.

[ElCid]

I was destined for either UNC, NC State, Elon, or the USNA

then my uncle who was a squadron commander at MCAS Beaufort suggested I check out The Citadel

After my visitor weekend I stopped opening mail from the other schools and declined the Navy appt from my Congressman- Tim Valentine.... who ironically was a graduate of El Cid

my first game was also my first as a knob


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really? I have a retired MC Col (also a Sq CC there at one time) from the late 70s to mid 80s time frame, living by me right now. He was very familiar with The Citadel. He knew Pat Conroy's Father who lived close to him.

I actually went to school wanting to go into the Navy. But when I got there I just fell into the AF program somehow. The Marines offered me a scholarship and pilot slot after my Knob year, but the AF came through eventually. But I almost went with the Marines.

[walliver]

Hard to say. Furman's attendance numbers started to drop precipitously when the team entered full-on mediocrity. Last season, they averaged around 5-6k fans per home game. In 2004 they were up around 13-14k for the regular season. From 2003 until 2007 Furman only had 3 regular season home games with attendance under 10k.

I don't think they were punching above their weight. Furman has a small student body, but consistently had impressive draws for home games when the team was good. It's a tough product to sell right now, though. It doesn't take many 3 or 4 win seasons (and Clemson crushing everyone) before the fans tell you to give them a call when things turnaround.

I think there's room to come back, though. The end of the Bruce Fowler era was arguably the lowest point in anyone's memory for the program. I do think that once the team starts coming back, you'll see the fans come back.

FU's attendance may pick up over the next few years, but neither Furman or the Citadel will ever have the crowds of the 80's and early 90's. Other than a few rapidly growing schools and marquee programs, college football attendance overall is down. Add to that a cohort of students who were in school during a down period and never developed an interest in the program. And almost every FCS game is now online.

I attended last years Wofford-Furman game and was impressed by the horrible attendance on both sides of the field for a game played on a beautiful afternoon.

[ElCid]

SOCON Week 3 Preview on the FCS Wedge.

http://thefcswedge.com/socon/socon-week-3-preview-2/

[CID1990]

Was his call sign "the great santini"


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No but the real Great Santini (Conroy) was his first squadron commander back in the day.

[CID1990]

Really? I have a retired MC Col (also a Sq CC there at one time) from the late 70s to mid 80s time frame, living by me right now. He was very familiar with The Citadel. He knew Pat Conroy's Father who lived close to him.

I actually went to school wanting to go into the Navy. But when I got there I just fell into the AF program somehow. The Marines offered me a scholarship and pilot slot after my Knob year, but the AF came through eventually. But I almost went with the Marines.

Where?

My uncle is in No VA now

But a lot of guys flew with Conroy in that time frame - most of them retired between 90-95

My uncle got "Tailhooked" in the early 90s

[ElCid]

Where?

My uncle is in No VA now

But a lot of guys flew with Conroy in that time frame - most of them retired between 90-95

My uncle got "Tailhooked" in the early 90s

He lives here outside of Brevard in my neighborhood. I have to ask him when he retired. He is about 74 or so so I think he retired right around 1989 or 90. I will PM you his name. Its a pretty small community, MC aviation, so I am sure they know each other.

[PaladinFan]

FU's attendance may pick up over the next few years, but neither Furman or the Citadel will ever have the crowds of the 80's and early 90's. Other than a few rapidly growing schools and marquee programs, college football attendance overall is down. Add to that a cohort of students who were in school during a down period and never developed an interest in the program. And almost every FCS game is now online.

I attended last years Wofford-Furman game and was impressed by the horrible attendance on both sides of the field for a game played on a beautiful afternoon.

I think other than the elite programs, attendance is always a bit of an issue. Just a few years ago Nick Saban chastized Alabama's student body for leaving games early and Michigan was trying to literally give away tickets.

You don't have to go back to the 80s or 90s. This was Furman's home attendance in 2004 regular season:
PC: 12,817
WCU: 14,412
Citadel: 14,481
GSU: 17,145
UTC: 11,692

In 2005:
Samford: 13,452
Hofstra: 9,844
GWU: 10,127
App: 14,138
Elon: 11,916
Wofford: 13,764

The 2006 and 2007 seasons were still 11-12k a game. Over the next several years you saw attendance drop slightly at the end of the Lamb years and beginning of Fowler's tenure. By the end of Fowler's time, though, attendance was abysmal. Again, you can only ask so much of a fan base. They aren't going to turn out just to watch bad football.

[ElCid]

I think other than the elite programs, attendance is always a bit of an issue. Just a few years ago Nick Saban chastized Alabama's student body for leaving games early and Michigan was trying to literally give away tickets.

You don't have to go back to the 80s or 90s. This was Furman's home attendance in 2004 regular season:
PC: 12,817
WCU: 14,412
Citadel: 14,481
GSU: 17,145
UTC: 11,692

In 2005:
Samford: 13,452
Hofstra: 9,844
GWU: 10,127
App: 14,138
Elon: 11,916
Wofford: 13,764

The 2006 and 2007 seasons were still 11-12k a game. Over the next several years you saw attendance drop slightly at the end of the Lamb years and beginning of Fowler's tenure. By the end of Fowler's time, though, attendance was abysmal. Again, you can only ask so much of a fan base. They aren't going to turn out just to watch bad football.

Our attendance took a hit when the home side of the stadium was rebuilt. In the four years prior from 2000-2003 we averaged 15.5K. The home side was closed in 04-05. When the home side reopened in 06, in the next four years from 06-09 we only averaged just over 13.5K. We lost 2K just like that. You would have thought just the opposite. From 2006-2016 we have averaged just 12.5K. The last four years it has been 11.5K. A downward trend to be sure. While our attendance has historically not been dependent upon our W/L percentage, winning doesn't hurt. So maybe we can reverse it.

[PaladinFan]

Our attendance took a hit when the home side of the stadium was rebuilt. In the four years prior from 2000-2003 we averaged 15.5K. The home side was closed in 04-05. When the home side reopened in 06, in the next four years from 06-09 we only averaged just over 13.5K. We lost 2K just like that. You would have thought just the opposite. From 2006-2016 we have averaged just 12.5K. The last four years it has been 11.5K. A downward trend to be sure. While our attendance has historically not been dependent upon our W/L percentage, winning doesn't hurt. So maybe we can reverse it.

I think some of it is a result of the wide availability of content.

I can watch virtually every Furman game on a live streaming service. It used to be that you might get one or (maybe) two games on "SoCon Saturday" a year. Even as a ardent Furman fan, the convenience of being able to watch the team from my living room makes it easier to stay home (that and Atlanta traffic).

[ElCid]

I think some of it is a result of the wide availability of content.

I can watch virtually every Furman game on a live streaming service. It used to be that you might get one or (maybe) two games on "SoCon Saturday" a year. Even as a ardent Furman fan, the convenience of being able to watch the team from my living room makes it easier to stay home (that and Atlanta traffic).

Yes I can agree with that. There is definitely a difference between the fan that wants to actually be at the game, the fan that just wants to see the game by any means and the fan that just follows the team. And depending how I feel, I could fit into each of those categories. I guess the trick is finding a way to get folks to want to actually be at the game. It gets even harder when fans have to travel. When I lived in Georgia it was four plus hour trip and after 6 years of not missing a home game I just had to say that was enough. Its about 4 1/2 hours now, but even though I am not working, I will not see all the home games. If I am in Charleston it is a no brainer, but to get up for a whole weekend of travel is sometimes a bit much.

[GreenGlasses]

I've essentially seen the same Furman team both weeks. I'm a little amused by these folks that had us highly ranked last week after almost beating Wofford, and now have us at the bottom after almost not losing to Elon.

I believe Furman fans are starting to see what I said before the season started. A talented team that will most likely come up short in a lot of games this year. I can see 4 maybe 5 wins this year as everyone is learning Hendrix system and learning how to play together as a team. Ive always said I think you will see a bigger jump come next year and in 19 I think you might start seeing the old Purple Paladins, the one I seen in the 80s to mid 90s that was always fighting for a top spot in the SoCon and playoff spot each year.

[cx500d]

Really? I have a retired MC Col (also a Sq CC there at one time) from the late 70s to mid 80s time frame, living by me right now. He was very familiar with The Citadel. He knew Pat Conroy's Father who lived close to him.

I actually went to school wanting to go into the Navy. But when I got there I just fell into the AF program somehow. The Marines offered me a scholarship and pilot slot after my Knob year, but the AF came through eventually. But I almost went with the Marines.

Shoulda went with your first choice...I know you are living in regret now, but you can't dwell on the bad decisions you made many years ago. Let it out, it will help you.


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[PaladinFan]

I believe Furman fans are starting to see what I said before the season started. A talented team that will most likely come up short in a lot of games this year. I can see 4 maybe 5 wins this year as everyone is learning Hendrix system and learning how to play together as a team. Ive always said I think you will see a bigger jump come next year and in 19 I think you might start seeing the old Purple Paladins, the one I seen in the 80s to mid 90s that was always fighting for a top spot in the SoCon and playoff spot each year.

Hard to speculate, really. The first quarter of Saturday's contest had a very Fowler-era feel to it. Watching Furman storm back and take the lead was decidedly different, though.

Realistically, this should be a building year for Furman. We have played (I think) 18 different freshmen in two contests. They are going to take their lumps and hopefully get better. Player development, in my view, was a huge issue with the last coaching staff, but I am really encouraged by the guys we are recruiting and the coaches we have on staff. Most of the coaches come from programs used to winning 8, 9, 10 games a year.

Best case for Furman, I think, is to channel a little bit of the 2013 team. If you recall, that squad started out 2-4, flipped a switch midseason, and largely ran over the rest of the SoCon schedule en route to a SoCon title.

I do agree that 18 and 19 will see bigger jumps. It is not just that Furman is young, but they are also running completely new systems on both sides of the ball (as opposed to a similar system with a new coordinator). It may take a few years to get the right personnel in place and get guys comfortable. One silver lining is that Furman lost a lot of players off last year's team (25ish, I'd guess), so the new staff has been able to immediately make an impact in recruiting the type of player they want in this program. By next recruiting class, well over half the roster will be Clay Hendrix recruits.

[cx500d]

Where?

My uncle is in No VA now

But a lot of guys flew with Conroy in that time frame - most of them retired between 90-95

My uncle got "Tailhooked" in the early 90s

Everybody got tailhooked in the early to mid 90s. I got tailhooked, wasn't even there, had never even been on a ship.


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[Reign of Terrier]

First game I saw was that year. I think against WCU. Also, the first day I had ever been to The Citadel was the day I showed up. Yeah, my wife almost went to Furman or Clemson, but decided on Converse instead.

I'm so sorry.


Converse, huh? I might know her. Is she 3 feet tall, have a flat head, and no teeth? (You'll get that tomorrow...and...laaaaaugh)

Just kidding, but speaking of tomorrow, it's THURSDAY, right?

What time does Samford kickoff against Vestavia HS JV?

I gotta get my picks in before then!

The stereotype nowadays with converse women is that they have 2 of 3 attributes: Sane, pretty or straight. Only two though.

[ETSUfan1]

I love the pick'em threads each week. Seems like this week's took longer than normal to turn into a discussion about Furman.

[PaladinFan]

I love the pick'em threads each week. Seems like this week's took longer than normal to turn into a discussion about Furman.

Meh. I just add content.

We could randomly pick scores of future games, but who wants to read pages of that?

[ElCid]

Meh. I just add content.

We could randomly pick scores of future games, but who wants to read pages of that?

I'll start.

11 Nov
The Citadel 48
Furman 3

[FUBeAR]

I'll start.

11 Nov
The Citadel 48
Furman 3

What year?

[ElCid]

What year?

For the foreseeable future.xlolx

[woffordgrad94]

Wofford 69
The Citadel 0

[ElCid]

Wofford 69
The Citadel 0

Maybe in a parallel universe? Not in this one.xthumbsupx

[FUBeAR]

For the foreseeable future.xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXLturJleH4

I see the crop is coming in quite potent in the mountains this Fall

[Smitty]

The Citadel 42
WCU 17

Damn, even in a rigged future game we still can't win...

[woffordgrad94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXLturJleH4

I see the crop is coming in quite potent in the mountains this Fall
Hey, that was quite entertaining!

[gofurman]

As someone who watched nearly every game Lamb coached for the better part of 10+ years, that's been my experience.

PaladinFan, I hear you. Very glad to have our current staff. Lamb just doesn't close out games. It's as simple as that. With superior talent he does ( ingle Martin, Jerome Felton, Ike West etc) .,. But given equal talent it seemed he would lose 70% of close games.

Anyway, as someone above said, Furman RIGHT NOW, just lacks depth and experience. New coaches, new systems on O and D, new DC, tons of Freshman playing. Etc. I think in two years Furman is top tier again and vying for playoffs. Shoot, 6 of our 10 OL are freshman now and of our 22 starters on D only 2 are seniors. Clay Hendrix knows what he is doing as does Staggs (now at Furman this year) who took the D at Charleston Southern from v poor to top ten.

Right now though it's a process, let's hang in v NCSU a little get a check and have no injuries. Colgate will help us learn pass D and then let's hit the SoCon

[gofurman]

Pictures from when furman was good.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prBXNwxjU4I

Ignorance? Furman played in the quarterfinals and semifinals in 2004 and 2005 and in the national TITLE game in 2001. Just our 2001 alone (getting to the TITLE game) is farther than Citadel has EVER made it. Furman has the 3 Title game appearances and one National Title

Wake me up when the Citadel gets there.... I'll be waiting

[cx500d]

Ignorance? Furman played in the quarterfinals and semifinals in 2004 and 2005 and in the national TITLE game in 2001. Just our 2001 alone (getting to the TITLE game) is farther than Citadel has EVER made it. Furman has the 3 Title game appearances and one National Title

Wake me up when the Citadel gets there.... I'll be waiting

Oh, that recent?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[citdog]

Ignorance? Furman played in the quarterfinals and semifinals in 2004 and 2005 and in the national TITLE game in 2001. Just our 2001 alone (getting to the TITLE game) is farther than Citadel has EVER made it. Furman has the 3 Title game appearances and one National Title

Wake me up when the Citadel gets there.... I'll be waiting

All that history wasn't enough to beat Elon....

[ElCid]

All that history wasn't enough to beat Elon....

Ouch!

[PaladinFan]

Furman talking about the old days is about as compelling as GSU pointing to their six national titles in a former era.

Granted, I'd rather have the history to point to than not.

[PaladinFan]

PaladinFan, I hear you. Very glad to have our current staff. Lamb just doesn't close out games. It's as simple as that. With superior talent he does ( ingle Martin, Jerome Felton, Ike West etc) .,. But given equal talent it seemed he would lose 70% of close games.

Anyway, as someone above said, Furman RIGHT NOW, just lacks depth and experience. New coaches, new systems on O and D, new DC, tons of Freshman playing. Etc. I think in two years Furman is top tier again and vying for playoffs. Shoot, 6 of our 10 OL are freshman now and of our 22 starters on D only 2 are seniors. Clay Hendrix knows what he is doing as does Staggs (now at Furman this year) who took the D at Charleston Southern from v poor to top ten.

Right now though it's a process, let's hang in v NCSU a little get a check and have no injuries. Colgate will help us learn pass D and then let's hit the SoCon

There's still plenty of road ahead of us in 2017. I don't think any team is going to run through the SoCon without a loss. Probably nobody without two.

Lamb's tenure is a difficult one to evaluate. I don't think he had as much to work with in terms of institutional support as Fowler or certainly Hendrix. He had impressive years with Furman, and far more success than his successor.

By the same token, he inherited a championship-caliber defense. The one glaring hole on the roster was at QB, which he filled with a once-in-a-generation transfer. You could even sort of give an assist on recruiting Jerome Felton to Bobby Johnson, who had already filled Vanderbilt's need at fullback and allegedly helped direct the native Tennessean to Furman. Once those players graduated, we became mediocre really quickly.

[longtimemocfan]

PaladinFan, I hear you. Very glad to have our current staff. Lamb just doesn't close out games. It's as simple as that. With superior talent he does ( ingle Martin, Jerome Felton, Ike West etc) .,. But given equal talent it seemed he would lose 70% of close games.

Anyway, as someone above said, Furman RIGHT NOW, just lacks depth and experience. New coaches, new systems on O and D, new DC, tons of Freshman playing. Etc. I think in two years Furman is top tier again and vying for playoffs. Shoot, 6 of our 10 OL are freshman now and of our 22 starters on D only 2 are seniors. Clay Hendrix knows what he is doing as does Staggs (now at Furman this year) who took the D at Charleston Southern from v poor to top ten.

Right now though it's a process, let's hang in v NCSU a little get a check and have no injuries. Colgate will help us learn pass D and then let's hit the SoCon

Can definitely identify with what your saying. Chattanooga is also a work in progress though we were left with a good core of players from the former coaching staff. The offense and defensive philosophies are totally different. We suspected their would be some growing pains with the change over. We may lose again this again this weekend, but as long as you can see the strides made to improve every week you can't complain. I think Furman is on the right track. I know Elon wasn't what you had in the plans, but in time I think the program is going to be just fine with the coaching staff they have in place.

[PaladinFan]

Can definitely identify with what your saying. Chattanooga is also a work in progress though we were left with a good core of players from the former coaching staff. The offense and defensive philosophies are totally different. We suspected their would be some growing pains with the change over. We may lose again this again this weekend, but as long as you can see the strides made to improve every week you can't complain. I think Furman is on the right track. I know Elon wasn't what you had in the plans, but in time I think the program is going to be just fine with the coaching staff they have in place.

That was like the 19th team I've seen Furman lose a game to Elon we should have won. It was a familiar feeling.

[citdog]

Look at the chatty kathys and the verminites commiserating together! It's enough to make your guts tremble.

[longtimemocfan]

Look at the chatty kathys and the verminites commiserating together! It's enough to make your guts tremble.

Lol what guts you have may be full of gas.

[FUBeAR]

Predictions:

Furman @ NC State - 35-17
CIT @ ETSU - 24-17
VMI @ Bob Morris - 13-10
Mercer @ Auburn - 35-10
WCU @ GWU - 31-14
UT-Martini @ Chatt 28-20
Samford @ Georgia @ Sanford - 45-17
Wofford vs. Bye - 2-0 - Bye does not turn the ball over 4 times. Bye does not need to go for 2. Bye WINS!

1) Wofford - even after falling to BYe
2) Mercer
3) Chatt
4) CIT
5) Furman
6) Samford
7) WCU
8) ETSU
9) VMI

....all I got this week. I'm tired.

[DoWe]

This week's winners in SoCon action:
NC State
Citadel
Robert Morris
Auburn
GWU
UT-Martin
Georgia

This week is much more unpredictable. Furman let me down last week, but that's my only miss so far.

[CID1990]

All that history wasn't enough to beat Elon....

I was thinking maybe fermun should hand out pamphlets to visiting teams before the games so they'll properly understand they should dutifully lose the games

[ElCid]

Predictions:


CIT @ ETSU - 24-17

Sure hope it isn't this close. I am stuck in Charleston still and hope to leave the next few minutes so I can get home and watch. I might miss the first quarter. I will have to listen on the radio ....again.

[Mocs123]

Furman 7 at NC State 42 Furman can't beat NC State this year

Citadel 28 at ETSU 7 The Bulldogs are too much for the Bucs

VMI 14 at Robert Morris 13 I am not sure what to think about this one, VMI looks bad, but hopefully they pull the road win out for the SoCon.

Mercer 3 at Auburn 49 Auburn is pissed

Western Carolina 31 at Gardner-Webb 28 - Hoping the Cats pull this one out - The SoCon needs this.

UT-Martin 20 at Chattanooga 24 Martin is better than most realize (They had 23 points and 220 yards rushing against Ole Miss), and Jason Simpson got passed over for the Chattanooga job twice, so its personal, but Chattanooga needs a win and I think they get it at home.

Samford 17 at Georgia 52 Samford will score some, but they can't stop anyone on D, much less an SEC team

[ElCid]

Looks like my Bulldogs are too much for my Bulldogs. Special Teams is falling apart. Blocked FG, bad punt snap, not to mention throwing an interception and a roughing the kicker deep in the end zone which gave them the ball back. Geez! I guess the long sad week is having an impact on them. On the plus side, we have held them to 30 total yards with only three minutes go in the second.

[Reign of Terrier]

If Citadel loses after the passing of Mitchell Jeter, *I* will be pissed.

[ElCid]

If Citadel loses after the passing of Mitchell Jeter, *I* will be pissed.

I think they are back in the groove. That was a textbook drive. Hopefully d tightens up a bit again.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

The Citadel @ ETSU - I foresee an improved performance from the Bucs but not enough



Called it. That was one hell of a game. I did not think ETSU would be leading for a lion's share of the game. The Citadel should thank God they won.

[FUBeAR]

Tell PaladinFan that Mercer has crossed the 50

[CID1990]

We have played down to every opponent we have had so far. I would like to blame today on the wild last two weeks, but Newberry played us well also. Our body of work thus far is not indicative of a conference title run

We really need this week off - I don't see how the team of the last 3 weeks beats Samford. Hopefully we'll regain our focus, especially on offense

[ElCid]

Called it. That was one hell of a game. I did not think ETSU would be leading for a lion's share of the game. The Citadel should thank God they won.

Yeah it was a bit tense here and there. You guys did move it nice a couple times. But we were making serious mental mistakes all first half. Right now I am going to chock it up to the disjointed week. I think special teams will get a talking to for sure. I like our stingy run defense, but let you guys completed way too many passes when needed. It has been steady improvement for the Bucs to be sure.

[ElCid]

Meanwhile Mercer is hanging tough down 7-0 almost at the end of the first, with the ball.

[ETSUfan1]

Great effort. We are improving.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

On one hand, the Citadel made a lot of mistakes and left a *lot* of points on the field. When you look at the stats, ETSU didn't play phenomenally. Having said that, ETSU still doesn't have a full Socon-caliber squad yet, so this was definitely a good effort but not enough to win. It was one of those games where one team was definitely better more talented than the other, but the other was demonstrating intangibles. At times they got lucky, but that's what's necessary sometimes when you're trying to pull an upset.

So if I'm ETSU I'm not disappointed with the effort. If I'm the Citadel, I'm a little concerned, but a lot happened this week so it's not too surprising they weren't completely on their game.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

On one hand, the Citadel made a lot of mistakes and left a *lot* of points on the field. When you look at the stats, ETSU didn't play phenomenally. Having said that, ETSU still doesn't have a full Socon-caliber squad yet, so this was definitely a good effort but not enough to win. It was one of those games where one team was definitely better more talented than the other, but the other was demonstrating intangibles. At times they got lucky, but that's what's necessary sometimes when you're trying to pull an upset.

So if I'm ETSU I'm not disappointed with the effort. If I'm the Citadel, I'm a little concerned, but a lot happened this week so it's not too surprising they weren't completely on their game.

I agree with you. ETSU had absolutely nothing to be ashamed of today.

[PaladinFan]

Tell PaladinFan that Mercer has crossed the 50

I saw that. Hanging tough.

[PaladinFan]

Paladins put up a respectable effort in Raleigh. Third week in a row with a long touchdown play, and second in a row with a 70+ yard pass. 329 yards, 66 plays, and 30 minutes of possession is a decent effort.

Defense still struggling to get off the field on third down and getting worn out late in the game. Gotta figure out how to solve that problem before the conference slate gets in full swing. Have to hang onto the football also.

Good road test next week against Colgate. Would be great to win that one.

[ElCid]

On one hand, the Citadel made a lot of mistakes and left a *lot* of points on the field. When you look at the stats, ETSU didn't play phenomenally. Having said that, ETSU still doesn't have a full Socon-caliber squad yet, so this was definitely a good effort but not enough to win. It was one of those games where one team was definitely better more talented than the other, but the other was demonstrating intangibles. At times they got lucky, but that's what's necessary sometimes when you're trying to pull an upset.

So if I'm ETSU I'm not disappointed with the effort. If I'm the Citadel, I'm a little concerned, but a lot happened this week so it's not too surprising they weren't completely on their game.

There were at least three key plays that kept them in it: The botched punt snap (7 ETSU points); the roughing the kicker in the end zone (Dogs gave up a short field and gave the ball back to ETSU); Bad kick/low/block by ETSU, (-3 points for Dogs and ETSU flipped field on the next series). Still does not concern me too much. ETSU did good by capitalizing where they did. I am more concerned with our pass defense. Add to it, we doubled our penalty count to date. Uhg. On the plus side on D, 208 total yards for ETSU with 26 rushing (79 total with 53 loss). Held Bucs to 2/12 on third downs. On Offense, 331 yards rushing (minus 23 on last play for chewing time). 9/17 third down conversions. I will take that. It looked ugly due to special teams, but not a bad performance overall.

Our week off comes at just the right time.

[PaladinFan]

Mercer gets a turnover deep in AU territory. Gets a FG out of it. 7-3.

[ElCid]

Mercer gets a turnover deep in AU territory. Gets a FG out of it. 7-3.

Mercer just got another one deep in their own territory. Going to be 7-3 at half!

[ElCid]

Bob Mo taking it to VMI 20-0 in 4th.

[PaladinFan]

Mercer just got another one deep in their own territory. Going to be 7-3 at half!

I can assure you the Auburn fans at Jordan Hare are going to start having a meltdown.

Auburn is moving the ball, they just keep coughing it up.

[ElCid]

I can assure you the Auburn fans at Jordan Hare are going to start having a meltdown.

Auburn is moving the ball, they just keep coughing it up.

Yeah, I might have spoken too soon. Looks like Auburn may score...at least 3.

[GodHelpTheBears]

Mercer just got another one deep in their own territory. Going to be 7-3 at half!

**HOT TAKE ALERT**

How surprising is this really? All offseason I heard hype about Auburn, but none of it was tangible. The Stidham talk was based on a guy who has started what, 2 games? Their defense is good, but they won 8 games last year. ESPN decided Auburn was going to be a championship contender this year based off of nothing.

Now, Mercer keeping it close is a surprise, but we're not discussing a biblical epic here. Given their performance last week, Mercer will likely be a solid team. Auburn should be in the "others getting votes" section of the AP poll. I would expect a solid team from a major FCS conference to give a mediocre P5 program some sort of challenge.

[PaladinFan]

**HOT TAKE ALERT**

How surprising is this really? All offseason I heard hype about Auburn, but none of it was tangible. The Stidham talk was based on a guy who has started what, 2 games? Their defense is good, but they won 8 games last year. ESPN decided Auburn was going to be a championship contender this year based off of nothing.

Now, Mercer keeping it close is a surprise, but we're not discussing a biblical epic here. Given their performance last week, Mercer will likely be a solid team. Auburn should be in the "others getting votes" section of the AP poll. I would expect a solid team from a major FCS conference to give a mediocre P5 program some sort of challenge.

Auburn's very good on defense. Their offense is moving the ball (they have nearly 200 more yards of offense than Mercer), but they are turning it over. Can't do that.

It is not uncharacteristic for these games to be close at the half. Maybe not this close, but close enough to freak out the home fans.

My guess is the boos from their fans and the butt chewing they'll get at half time will lead to a renewed sense of purpose. No one wants to be embarrassed on national television.

Mercer's game plan doesn't change. They need to hang on, keep doing what they are doing, and survive the haymakers Auburn is going to throw at them in the second half.

[ElCid]

Mercer just got another fumble. Unbelievable.

Now driving nicely. Auburn looks flat.

[PaladinFan]

Riley is going to set some sort of SoCon record for number of completions without breaking 100 yards passing. 11 completions for 47 yards.

[PaladinFan]

Looks like Mercer's backup is in at QB.

[ElCid]

I was a little surprised that Mercer attempted the fake FG. Almost got it though. They are hanging tough. They looked real good on that last drive.

[PaladinFan]

I was a little surprised that Mercer attempted the fake FG. Almost got it though. They are hanging tough. They looked real good on that last drive.

I think you have to take the FG there. Have all the momentum, why give it back?

[ElCid]

WCU up fast on G-W 7-0.

[kdinva]

Bob Mo taking it to VMI 20-0 in 4th.

VMI still has problems.........mostly from the neck up.......plus Wach's play calling is very conservative.....having a FB this year, but not using him as a lead blocker.....VMI is trying to run 6 against 7......will never work...and the receivers are not running hard, confident routes......too easy to cover.....

[JSUSoutherner]

UTC's ESPN stream is JV. I feel like I'm watching a game in the 80's.

[JSUSoutherner]

Mercer just got another fumble. Unbelievable.

Now driving nicely. Auburn looks flat.

Auburn is garbage. Been waiting for them to fire Malzahn for several years now.

[OL FU]

Can I change my VMI pick! And Go Mercer. I mean go Bobby Lamb!

[Reign of Terrier]

Chattanooga's offense just looks bad. I know they don't have Bennefield, but they just don't look good.

I think they're a 6-5 team this year. They could win this game, but I don't see them dropping less than 2 games in the conference this year.

[PaladinFan]

Chattanooga's offense just looks bad. I know they don't have Bennefield, but they just don't look good.

I think they're a 6-5 team this year. They could win this game, but I don't see them dropping less than 2 games in the conference this year.

I said early on, but I think the SoCon is wide open this year. Wofford has two wins in the barn, but no one has really looked like they are just going to run the league.

[Reign of Terrier]

Mocs with -1 yards rushing.

- - - Updated - - -

Right now, I think the Citadel and Wofford "look the best" but that's not saying much

[Reign of Terrier]

UTM up 14-0 over Chatt.

I think Wofford may be good enough to run the table this year, especially since we beat two teams that are (at the least) solidly in the middle. But Mercer looks good right now.

[PaladinFan]

Touchdown Auburn. Goes back up two scores.

Auburn has 515 yards to Mercer's 193. Strange game.

[PaladinFan]

UTM up 14-0 over Chatt.

I think Wofford may be good enough to run the table this year, especially since we beat two teams that are (at the least) solidly in the middle. But Mercer looks good right now.

Maybe. They have two one point wins and probably could easily be 0-2. I don't see them escaping conference play without a loss.

[JSUSoutherner]

Umm. UTM is currently holding UTC to less yards and points than we did. xrotatehx

[Milktruck74]

Mocs with -1 yards rushing.

- - - Updated - - -

Right now, I think the Citadel and Wofford "look the best" but that's not saying much

Tallest Midget.

[JSUSoutherner]

Tallest Midget.
Please tell me there's more than 12 people on your home sideline. The shot they just showed of the visitor side is embarrassing.

[Mocs123]

Our offense looks terrible. If we don't improve and fast, it's going to be a LONG season for Moc fans.

[Milktruck74]

Please tell me there's more than 12 people on your home sideline. The shot they just showed of the visitor side is embarrassing.

Yeah, nobody but the band sits on that side (so 14 people)....probably 10k at the game and 9200 are on the home side.

[JSUSoutherner]

Yeah, nobody but the band sits on that side (so 14 people)....probably 10k at the game and 9200 are on the home side.
No way there are 800 on the visitor side. 80 maybe.

[PaladinFan]

are knee pads optional in football now?

[JSUSoutherner]

are knee pads optional in football now?
UTC needs some cause UTM has got them on their knees right now

[Milktruck74]

are knee pads optional in football now?

Most WR pants stop above the knee....so why wear knee pads?

[Smitty]

Our offense looks terrible. If we don't improve and fast, it's going to be a LONG season for Moc fans.

At this rate we may actually have a chance to beat you this year!

[PaladinFan]

Most WR pants stop above the knee....so why wear knee pads?

That's why I'm asking. It seems like most players have pants that stop above the knee. I think it was at least formerly the rule you had to have pads over the knees.

[PaladinFan]

UGA up a touchdown on Samford.

[PaladinFan]

Not looking good for the Birmingham Bulldogs.

UGA has nearly 200 yards of offense and there's still 2 minutes left in the first quarter.

[Blazrdog1]

sucks!Five turnovers and Mercer holds them to 24 while scoring 10 on them.The bus WILL wreck by mid season.Good job Bears!

[Smitty]

Western picks up the win at Gardner-Webb 42 - 27.

[ElCid]

Samford only down 7-21 to Georgia at half. Good showing.

[Reign of Terrier]

Chattanooga net 6 yards rushing against UTM.

They aren't a playoff team. Wayyyyy too many question marks on offense

[ElCid]

Samford sinking fast....35-7.

[PaladinFan]

Chattanooga net 6 yards rushing against UTM.

They aren't a playoff team. Wayyyyy too many question marks on offense

I'm not sure Bennefield solves that problem.

[Mocs123]

First off I want to apologize to all the other SoCon teams fans for sucking it up and going 0-2 vs the OVC. Our defense has looked OK considering the amount of time they have spent on the field and the positions they have been put in, but our offense is beyond pathetic. I am not sure I saw any bright spot on offense tonight.

Congrats to UT-Martin

Congrats to Furman for putting 16 on NC State and Mercer for putting up a good showing against Auburn.

If we don't get better we may not win more than one or two games in the SoCon.

[Mocs123]

I'm not sure Bennefield solves that problem.

Bennifield would be an inprovement, but it in no way fixes our offensive problems. The line isn't playing well and we can't run the ball. Playcalling looks like it is from the Rodney Allison era.

[kdinva]

...Playcalling looks like it is.....

...and VMI still, on 3rd and two, runs the TB up the middle w/out a lead blocker....

[PaladinFan]

First off I want to apologize to all the other SoCon teams fans for sucking it up and going 0-2 vs the OVC. Our defense has looked OK considering the amount of time they have spent on the field and the positions they have been put in, but our offense is beyond pathetic. I am not sure I saw any bright spot on offense tonight.

Congrats to UT-Martin

Congrats to Furman for putting 16 on NC State and Mercer for putting up a good showing against Auburn.

If we don't get better we may not win more than one or two games in the SoCon.

Much more to be written. Only Wofford and Citadel have a conference win at the moment.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm not sure Bennefield solves that problem.


Bennifield would be an inprovement, but it in no way fixes our offensive problems. The line isn't playing well and we can't run the ball. Playcalling looks like it is from the Rodney Allison era.

Was Bennifield all conference? if memory serves, he relied on the run game to set up the pass. Bottom line: the OL can't block right now, and they can't run. Only rushing for 6 yards against an FBS team would be bad, against a Socon school even worse, against an unknown commodity such as UTM is even worse.

The sirens have to be ringing pretty loud right now at Chatt. I think they're a 5-6 team at best right now.

[tenNesseeCat]

Good win for western tonight. It felt like a decently competitive game at times, and it felt like a blowout at times. Improvements can be made, but Tyrie's long ball is on point. It might have been western's 2nd possesion, i felt that no call, defensive hold prevented a TD. GW late garbage TD made it look closer than it was.

[PaladinFan]

Was Bennifield all conference? if memory serves, he relied on the run game to set up the pass. Bottom line: the OL can't block right now, and they can't run. Only rushing for 6 yards against an FBS team would be bad, against a Socon school even worse, against an unknown commodity such as UTM is even worse.

The sirens have to be ringing pretty loud right now at Chatt. I think they're a 5-6 team at best right now.

He was second team last season and preseason second team this season.

No SoCon QB will put up the sheer numbers Hodges can. I do think the #2 SoCon QB will come down to Adams, Blazejowski, or Goodson.

[Reign of Terrier]

My money is on Adams then. Even if Goodson has a stellar year (two games in he's playing better than at any point last year IMO) he's not going to have the stats whereas Adams is killing it.

[DoWe]

Western picks up the win at Gardner-Webb 42 - 27.
Congrats! That's a good win, and one I feared was not going to happen.