Mel Kiper rates Junior QB's....

[GOTOREROS]

If you are a ESPN Insider you can read the rest of the postional rankings...

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=2749332


Top 5 Juniors By Position

Quarterbacks
1. Brian Brohm, Louisville
2. Chad Henne, Michigan
3. Colt Brennan, Hawaii
4. John David Booty, USC
5. Matt Ryan, Boston College
5a. Erik Ainge, Tennessee
5b. Andre Woodson, Kentucky
5c. Josh Johnson, San Diego
5d. Anthony Morelli, Penn St.


Interesting name at "5c".........Josh is the only FCS player listed by Kiper in the article.

[TexasTerror]

I see Josh Johnson at #9 in the 2008 QB rankings according to the NFL draft service that I get, which is pretty comparable to the ranking you provided...

[TheValleyRaider]

1-5, the 5a-d? Not suggesting Johnson shouldn't be there, but that seems kind of a strange way to do it.

[GOTOREROS]

1-5, the 5a-d? Not suggesting Johnson shouldn't be there, but that seems kind of a strange way to do it.

Agreed. I think Kiper is an idiot anyway but thought it was cool to see Josh Johnson mentioned...

[smallcollegefbfan]

Agreed. I think Kiper is an idiot anyway but thought it was cool to see Josh Johnson mentioned...

I think he is missing the boat by not having Kendall Langford there.

Josh Johnson is very good and I believe he is a solid pick by Kiper.

Kiper just does not see the small school guys. If you noticed last year he never even talked about Marques Colston before the draft.

[PaladinFan]

I don't know much about Johnson, but it seems a bit ridiculous to have the quarterback of USD ranked the same as the quarterback from Tennessee (one of the top offenses in the counrty).

Just my thought....

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm not suggesting he's shortchanging Johnson, just saying the numbering is kinda strange.

[Jackluv]

I don't know much about Johnson, but it seems a bit ridiculous to have the quarterback of USD ranked the same as the quarterback from Tennessee (one of the top offenses in the counrty).

Just my thought....


i completely agree....i understand that Josh Johnson is an absolutely amazing quarterback when it comes to the mid-majors. But, placing him with Morelli from Penn St. and Ainge from Tenn. is ridiculous. xidiotx

[GOTOREROS]

i completely agree....i understand that Josh Johnson is an absolutely amazing quarterback when it comes to the mid-majors. But, placing him with Morelli from Penn St. and Ainge from Tenn. is ridiculous. xidiotx

I wonder if people said the same about Steve McNair. I am not trying to compare Johnson to McNair, rather simply the argument that they came from small schools and not large BCS schools.

I am not here to say Johnson is the best QB only simply he is one of the better QB's in college when look at raw physical tools. He hasn't faced OSU, USC, Michigan etc. I understand that - but it isn't just about what the name on the front of your jersey. I am not a big Kiper fan but he among others think Josh is a very talented QB and has NFL POTENTIAL.

You have to remember that the NFL doesn't go always by results but often physical ability. Not too many QB's out there with Josh's physical tools. We could argue all day long but to disregard JJ shows you are not willing to look deeper. Many BCS fans could dismiss all FCS players as weaker, slower, and less talented. The reality is that sometimes kids fall through the cracks and end up in in FCS or elsewhere.

I think Josh is a 4th round guy at best - unless he adds more bulk. He is too thin to play in the NFL right now he would be beat to a pulp.

If you follow draft protocols you would see it isn't alwasy about what team, conference you played for. It matters but it isn't the biggest factor - they want physical specimens.

Again, I am not here to argue that Josh is the best, but to dismiss him simply because he plays for San Diego is overlooking many things. Josh could be a bust but Kiper isn't go to put Johsnon in an article just because he the sun came up - he put him there for a reason.

I just think it s easy to dismiss for many here becasue that what we often do in life when we refuse to look more closely....we'll see if he can add more muscle and impress people at the NFL combines should he get that far.

:twocents:

[cowbellnation]

gotoreros im pretty sure that was dumb sayin josh johnson and steve mcnair in the same sentence. if i remember correctly steve mcnair was a heisman trophy finalist, and he still played at alcorn state. what did johnson do? well he won the pioneer league, and almost had a undefeated season. yessssss, go toreros. well i guess you went undefeated in Pioneer league (NAIA) play, and 0-1 against d-1aa. i dont care if you are not comparing johnson and mcnair just mentioning them together was stupid. give me a break. heisman finalist, pioneer league, not seeing the connection.

[GOTOREROS]

gotoreros im pretty sure that was dumb sayin josh johnson and steve mcnair in the same sentence. if i remember correctly steve mcnair was a heisman trophy finalist, and he still played at alcorn state. what did johnson do? well he won the pioneer league, and almost had a undefeated season. yessssss, go toreros. well i guess you went undefeated in Pioneer league (NAIA) play, and 0-1 against d-1aa. i dont care if you are not comparing johnson and mcnair just mentioning them together was stupid. give me a break. heisman finalist, pioneer league, not seeing the connection.

First of all the PFL is an FCS conference - now you look stupid. It is also FCS not IAA - again you look stupid. USD went 10-1 vs. FCS (formerly IAA) competition in 2006.

So you ignored my point and focused on the name McNair, even after I made the statement of not comparing them vs. each other.. My point was that people could have said McNair racked up numbers in a sub-par conference and lower division that is nowhere near the PAC-10, BIG 10, Big 12 etc (FCS vs. BCS). I am simply saying the same argument made about being in a lesser conference is being made here...with respect to other FCS quarterbacks. Not sure how much clearer the point can be.....extrapolate just little if your mind will allow....everything in life isn't 2+2=4.....xcoffeex

[PaladinFan]

It's been a long time since McNair played at Alcorn.

Point is, Ainge puts up big numbers against Georgia, Florida, Alabama, etc. The fact is, and it is undebatable, that you can't compare a quarterback from UT to one from USD. Just can't.

I like what Troy Smith said in his interview on ESPN radio about Kiper when asked what he thought about Mel Kiper dropping him after the national championship game..."Does he have a pick for any team?" "Then I don't care what he says."

[cowbellnation]

gotoreros, first of all i know the PFL is a FCS conference, but i was just havin some fun with the NAIA deal, being you play teams such as Valpo, who may i say has an excellent football team, but i still stand by my point of mcnair and johnson, thats just dumb. and i agree with paladin, and dont get me wrong i love FCS football and college football in general, but im a realist also, and our quarterbacks in this day and age just dont compete well with the eric ainge's, colt brennan's, brian brohm's, and tim tebow's of the world. i commend you for promoting your qb, but im sorry our qb's (FCS) don't compare.

[AppGuy04]

Did he really try and compare Josh Johnson and Steve McNair?

[slostang]

I would bet that just about everyone that has posted on this thread with the exception of GoTOREROS has not even seen Josh Johnson play. I think it is great that a QB from the FCS is mentioned as a top 10 NFL QB prospect and I am sure if he was wearing your school's uniform that you would be just as proud as GOTOREROS is. We all agree that there are players that are playing in FCS that could star in the FBS. I believe that Josh Johnson is one of those players and if he makes it in the NFL it makes all of the FCS look good. I would think everyone on AGS would be rooting for him. I know I am.

[JMG1MON]

Ainge and Morelli have not exactly had stellar college careers. To think that Johnson may be on par with them is not exactly a far fetched idea. With that said, Morelli has 2 years of eligibility left I believe and barring a monster season, he will probably return to PSU for his last year.

As for McNair, he was on everyone's radar if I remember from the beginning of his senior year. He was a sure fire first round pick. You have 2 completely different cases. Not even close to the same situation so the arguement is moot.

[Smendy]

I like this list of juniors -- ton of top I-AA players, too!

http://www.draftdaddy.com/prospects/bestJun.cfm

[aggie6thman]

I would bet that just about everyone that has posted on this thread with the exception of GoTOREROS has not even seen Josh Johnson play. I think it is great that a QB from the FCS is mentioned as a top 10 NFL QB prospect and I am sure if he was wearing your school's uniform that you would be just as proud as GOTOREROS is. We all agree that there are players that are playing in FCS that could star in the FBS. I believe that Josh Johnson is one of those players and if he makes it in the NFL it makes all of the FCS look good. I would think everyone on AGS would be rooting for him. I know I am.

I have seen him play and he did a great job. But the point that people are trying to make, and have (Paladin), is that you can't compare Josh Johnson to Erik Ainge. The calibur of defenses they compete against is unremarkably different. I would bet that Josh wouldn't put up those numbers against a schedule like the Vols.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I would bet that just about everyone that has posted on this thread with the exception of GoTOREROS has not even seen Josh Johnson play. I think it is great that a QB from the FCS is mentioned as a top 10 NFL QB prospect and I am sure if he was wearing your school's uniform that you would be just as proud as GOTOREROS is. We all agree that there are players that are playing in FCS that could star in the FBS. I believe that Josh Johnson is one of those players and if he makes it in the NFL it makes all of the FCS look good. I would think everyone on AGS would be rooting for him. I know I am.

I saw him play Monmouth on TV this year and Johnson is legit. He can run, throw, and he is a leader. He just needs to add weight. I can certainly see why he is listed among the top QBs in the draft.

[slostang]

I have seen him play and he did a great job. But the point that people are trying to make, and have (Paladin), is that you can't compare Josh Johnson to Erik Ainge. The calibur of defenses they compete against is unremarkably different. I would bet that Josh wouldn't put up those numbers against a schedule like the Vols.
He just might if he were playing for the Vols and not USD. Let's not forget that he would have some of the top receivers to throw to and running backs to hand off to not to mention a top staff supporting him. He will definately have a huge learning curve, but it is nice to see that his skills are good enough to catch NFL scouts.

[downbythebeach]

I don't understand why some of the biggest FCS fans who love everything FCS get all pissy and when there is something good said about San Diego....
No Johnson is not playing against the best competition every week, but neither were a lot of other players when they were in college......

Colston anyone?....but he didn't play in the Big Ten like Santanio Holmes....

[smallcollegefbfan]

I don't understand why some of the biggest FCS fans who love everything FCS get all pissy and when there is something good said about San Diego....
No Johnson is not playing against the best competition every week, but neither were a lot of other players when they were in college......

Colston anyone?....but he didn't play in the Big Ten like Santanio Holmes....

Yeah people in the Big Ten and SEC said the same thing about Colston that people in the A-10, SoCon, and Gateway say about the PFL and NEC. The only true BIG boys out there is the SEC, Big Ten, ACC, Big 12, etc. Everyone else is looking up at someone who is bigger.

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

gotoreros im pretty sure that was dumb sayin josh johnson and steve mcnair in the same sentence. if i remember correctly steve mcnair was a heisman trophy finalist, and he still played at alcorn state. what did johnson do? well he won the pioneer league, and almost had a undefeated season. yessssss, go toreros. well i guess you went undefeated in Pioneer league (NAIA) play, and 0-1 against d-1aa. i dont care if you are not comparing johnson and mcnair just mentioning them together was stupid. give me a break. heisman finalist, pioneer league, not seeing the connection.

Say What???????????? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Explain to me how a 1-AA QB (Alcorn State --- SWAC Conference) can compete for the Heisman (a 1-A Award)???

I pray that you meant Walter Payton Finalist and that the following was just a typo.

As for Johnson....

I can't say anything about him because I have never seen him play.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Say What???????????? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Explain to me how a 1-AA QB (Alcorn State --- SWAC Conference) can compete for the Heisman (a 1-A Award)???

I pray that you meant Walter Payton Finalist and that the following was just a typo.

As for Johnson....

I can't say anything about him because I have never seen him play.

McNair was actually a top five pick in the draft and a Heisman candidate. He was a top five pick.

Actually FCS players are eligible for those type of awards. I remember a kicker from I-AA being a semifinalist for the Lou Groza one time a few years back. It is possible, just HIGHLY UNLIKELY. It is still great pub just to be listed as a candidate if you are from the FCS though.

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

McNair was actually a top five pick in the draft and a Heisman candidate. He was a top five pick.

Actually FCS players are eligible for those type of awards. I remember a kicker from I-AA being a semifinalist for the Lou Groza one time a few years back. It is possible, just HIGHLY UNLIKELY. It is still great pub just to be listed as a candidate if you are from the FCS though.



It's pretty much like you just said...

I believed that was just some publicity stunt to help get his name out there (as if it already wasn't at the time)...

A 1-AA player winning the Heisman would have the college football "purist" at each other's throats....

No Offense to McNair by any means....

[slostang]

It's pretty much like you just said...

I believed that was just some publicity stunt to help get his name out there (as if it already wasn't at the time)...

A 1-AA player winning the Heisman would have the college football "purist" at each other's throats....

No Offense to McNair by any means....
I think that Gordie Lockbaum (sp?), a two way starter at Holly Cross was a finalist for the Heisman.

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

I think that Gordie Lockbaum (sp?), a two way starter at Holly Cross was a finalist for the Heisman.

...and nothing more unfortunantly

[PaladinFan]

Not trying to take anything away from USD. I mean only to say that if you want to have a group of "top juniors" then go right ahead. It is when you "rank" them that things get messy.

[grizband]

Steve McNair actually finished 3rd in the voting for the 1994 Heisman, behind Rushaa Salaam and Ki Jana Carter. Despite the incredible season he had, I'm still amazed he finished that high.

[UNH SUPERFAN]

Apparently Kiper never saw Ricky Santos play.

[Mr. C]

...and nothing more unfortunantly
Why puy someone down who finished FIFTH in 1986 for the Heisman (behind Vinny Testaverde, RB Paul Palmer of Temple, Jim Harbaugh and Brian Bosworth) and THIRD in 1987 (behind Tim Brown and Syracuse's QB Don McPherson)? That's pretty solid for anybody. When McNair was a senior there was a lot of support for him for the Heisman (I actually wrote a column that year about why he should be considered). Finishing top-three has happened twice for I-AA/FCS players. Why not again?

On the original stuff about Josh Johnson. It is not about where he plays. NFL teams are interested in his talent and he is as talented as almost anyone. Having seen those other guys at Tennessee, Penn State etc. and Johnson, I'd pick Johnson ahead of them in a heartbeat. But that's just my opinion.

[NoSpinZone]

gotoreros im pretty sure that was dumb sayin josh johnson and steve mcnair in the same sentence. if i remember correctly steve mcnair was a heisman trophy finalist, and he still played at alcorn state. what did johnson do? well he won the pioneer league, and almost had a undefeated season. yessssss, go toreros. well i guess you went undefeated in Pioneer league (NAIA) play, and 0-1 against d-1aa. i dont care if you are not comparing johnson and mcnair just mentioning them together was stupid. give me a break. heisman finalist, pioneer league, not seeing the connection.

Being a heisman finalist or even winning all the big awards means very little when it comes down to NFL talent. Many Heisman trophy winners do nothing in the pros and some aren't even drafted, while some NAIA and D2's are. Who cares where he plays if he is good the NFL will find him.

[UNH 40]

Apparently Kiper never saw Ricky Santos play.

Kiper is a fool. Santos is as good as any QB on this list, and surtainly a hell of a lot more deserving than Johnson. Santos is the one who deserves to be compared with Steve McNair since he is in line to break several of the records that McNair set, including career TD's, and Passing Yards.

[Mr. C]

Kiper is a fool. Santos is as good as any QB on this list, and surtainly a hell of a lot more deserving than Johnson. Santos is the one who deserves to be compared with Steve McNair since he is in line to break several of the records that McNair set, including career TD's, and Passing Yards.
Have you seen Johnson play? I respect the fact that you played with Santos and have a strong, positive opinion on him (I've had the chance to talk with Ricky at The Sports Network awards banquet in each of the past two years and found him to be a delightful kid), but Johnson has tremendous tools to play at the next level. Santos will get the chance to show his stuff, probably as a free agent, after one more year. But he has some things to overcome in terms of size, etc. I don't like the way that the NFL judges things on a prototype and I love it when someone breaks the stereotypes and shows they can play, despite being too short, or too something else. But unfortunately, Ricky will have to break through a lot of that stuff, if he is to play in the NFL.

[Peems]

Have you seen Johnson play? I respect the fact that you played with Santos and have a strong, positive opinion on him (I've had the chance to talk with Ricky at The Sports Network awards banquet in each of the past two years and found him to be a delightful kid), but Johnson has tremendous tools to play at the next level. Santos will get the chance to show his stuff, probably as a free agent, after one more year. But he has some things to overcome in terms of size, etc. I don't like the way that the NFL judges things on a prototype and I love it when someone breaks the stereotypes and shows they can play, despite being too short, or too something else. But unfortunately, Ricky will have to break through a lot of that stuff, if he is to play in the NFL.

i agree, i hate the idea that a quarterback has to fit a "mold." Look at Dave D. he's won at every level hes gotten a chance at. Though a part of me is glad he never played in the NFL because then his status of "uber football god who never loses" would probably be broken. but flutie did it, and so did garcia(guys who started in front of Dave)

[lucchesicourt]

I have seen both Santos and Johnson, and IMO, Santos with the ball in his hands is more dangerous than Johnson. I would much rather defend Johnson than Santos. Santos' accurancy is definitely superior to Johnson's, though Johnson is more of a running threat.

[89Hen]

Being a heisman finalist or even winning all the big awards means very little when it comes down to NFL talent. Many Heisman trophy winners do nothing in the pros and some aren't even drafted, while some NAIA and D2's are. Who cares where he plays if he is good the NFL will find him.
I agree and disagree at the same time. Unfortunately, many who may have the talent to play in the NFL never get a real shot. There are only 32 openings for starting QB in the NFL and most of them are occupied by vererans. Not too many teams are willing to take a risk on an unknown quantity. There are of course I-AA exceptions; Gannon and Warner come to mind, but keep in mind what they had to endure to even get a chance. Gannon was drafted... to play DB for the Pats and had to fight for time in Minnesota and Washington for many years before getting a chance in KC and EVEN THEN was snubbed by Schottenheimer. He didn't get a chance until Chuckie gave him the ball in Oakland and then he went to four straight Pro Bowls and was league MVP. Imagine what he could have done with younger legs (and shoulders). :(

[Peems]

I agree and disagree at the same time. Unfortunately, many who may have the talent to play in the NFL never get a real shot. There are only 32 openings for starting QB in the NFL and most of them are occupied by vererans. Not too many teams are willing to take a risk on an unknown quantity. There are of course I-AA exceptions; Gannon and Warner come to mind, but keep in mind what they had to endure to even get a chance. Gannon was drafted... to play DB for the Pats and had to fight for time in Minnesota and Washington for many years before getting a chance in KC and EVEN THEN was snubbed by Schottenheimer. He didn't get a chance until Chuckie gave him the ball in Oakland and then he went to four straight Pro Bowls and was league MVP. Imagine what he could have done with younger legs (and shoulders). :(

great point. Look at warner he played his first game in the NFL at the age of 28. that was the '99 season, three years later he had lost velocity, broke his finger and was moved to the giants the next season. Cade Mcnown at the age of 28 was already out of the NFL having gotten drafted at the age of 22 by da bears and finally getting cut by the 49ers in 2003 at the age of 25. its a shame that people like mcnown and akili smith get shots at the NFL just because they have 2 good years at a big school while guys like warner and gannon have to "lose" their good years on the bench or just proving they belong.

[NoSpinZone]

I agree and disagree at the same time. Unfortunately, many who may have the talent to play in the NFL never get a real shot. There are only 32 openings for starting QB in the NFL and most of them are occupied by vererans. Not too many teams are willing to take a risk on an unknown quantity. There are of course I-AA exceptions; Gannon and Warner come to mind, but keep in mind what they had to endure to even get a chance. Gannon was drafted... to play DB for the Pats and had to fight for time in Minnesota and Washington for many years before getting a chance in KC and EVEN THEN was snubbed by Schottenheimer. He didn't get a chance until Chuckie gave him the ball in Oakland and then he went to four straight Pro Bowls and was league MVP. Imagine what he could have done with younger legs (and shoulders). :(

I was just commenting on how winning the Heisman or some of these other awards really is meaningless when it comes to draft-ablity or what the NFL is looking for. The other poster made it sound like since he played inferior competition and since he didn't get Heisman attention he was nothing. Heisman QB's like Charlie Ward and the Oklahoma QB a couple of years ago come to mind and in the NFL eyes were not real prospects. On the other hand if you can play the NFL will find you.

On your boy Gannon, your story isn't exactly correct. He got some snaps as a 22 and 23 year old and by the time he was 24 and 25 year old he was starting in the NFL and frankly wasn't anything special until he ended up in Oakland in his 30's. He had plenty of opportunity to prove himself as a young man.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/GannRi00.htm

It probably worked out better for him sitting on the bench as a #2 QB for most of his 20's and learning NFL offense IMO. I think of QB's in the NFL like Prize fighers. If they take less damage early on they can probably have a solid extended career and get those good years back at the tail end of the career and Gannon seems like a good example, Steve Beuerlein, Steve Young etc. There are other examples of guys that got thrown to the wolves as rookies not knowing anything and #1 got their confidence destroyed and never made it past a year or two or got beat up and couldn't walk by their 30's.

[Peems]

I was just commenting on how winning the Heisman or some of these other awards really is meaningless when it comes to draft-ablity or what the NFL is looking for. The other poster made it sound like since he played inferior competition and since he didn't get Heisman attention he was nothing. Heisman QB's like Charlie Ward and the Oklahoma QB a couple of years ago come to mind and in the NFL eyes were not real prospects. On the other hand if you can play the NFL will find you.

On your boy Gannon, your story isn't exactly correct. He got some snaps as a 22 and 23 year old and by the time he was 25 and 26 year old he was starting in the NFL and frankly wasn't anything special until he ended up in Oakland in his 30's. He had plenty of opportunity to prove himself as a young man.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/GannRi00.htm

It probably worked out better for him sitting on the bench as a #2 QB for most of his 20's and learning IMO. I think of QB's in the NFL like Prize fighers. If they take less damage early on they can probably have a solid extended career and get those good years back at the tail end of the career and Gannon seems like a good example. There are other examples of guys the peaked early and could barley walk in by their 30's.

jason white of Oklahoma and josh heupel of oklahoma. Heupel was from aberdeen, SD. how did the bunnies let that one get by?

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

Why puy someone down who finished FIFTH in 1986 for the Heisman (behind Vinny Testaverde, RB Paul Palmer of Temple, Jim Harbaugh and Brian Bosworth) and THIRD in 1987 (behind Tim Brown and Syracuse's QB Don McPherson)? That's pretty solid for anybody. When McNair was a senior there was a lot of support for him for the Heisman (I actually wrote a column that year about why he should be considered). Finishing top-three has happened twice for I-AA/FCS players. Why not again?

On the original stuff about Josh Johnson. It is not about where he plays. NFL teams are interested in his talent and he is as talented as almost anyone. Having seen those other guys at Tennessee, Penn State etc. and Johnson, I'd pick Johnson ahead of them in a heartbeat. But that's just my opinion.

Who's putting him down?????

It's called REALITY....

NO FCS/1-AA Player will win the Heisman EVER....Any player listed on that list is strictly for hype and recognition....nothing more...

Those that think otherwise will be disappointed for life....

[NoSpinZone]

jason white of Oklahoma and josh heupel of oklahoma. Heupel was from aberdeen, SD. how did the bunnies let that one get by?

White was the one I was referring to. Heupel is in the NFL somewhere I think. Tough to beat out Oklahoma no matter who you are.

[Peems]

vince huntberger got a vote for heisman once.(he played safety for the griz)

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

White was the one I was referring to. Heupel is in the NFL somewhere I think. Tough to beat out Oklahoma no matter who you are.

Heupel is Oklahoma's QB Coach....(unless promoted)

[NoSpinZone]

As far as Kipper's list. I still think a guy like Kyle Wright at Miami regardless of how Miami ended up this year will end up being a bigger prospect by the time he graduates. To many tools.

[JMG1MON]

Well, considering Kyle Wright may very well drop to 3rd on the depth chart this season, I highly doubt it!

[lucchesicourt]

JT O'Sullivan, a D2 QB, also got a Heisman vote

[89Hen]

if you can play the NFL will find you.

On your boy Gannon, your story isn't exactly correct. He got some snaps as a 22 and 23 year old and by the time he was 25 and 26 year old he was starting in the NFL and frankly wasn't anything special until he ended up in Oakland in his 30's. He had plenty of opportunity to prove himself as a young man.
I disagree. The NFL passes on LOTS of talent. As a QB, reputation gets you your shot 90% of the time.

As for Gannon, you really think he got a shot in Minnesota? xcoffeex

[Peems]

As far as Kipper's list. I still think a guy like Kyle Wright at Miami regardless of how Miami ended up this year will end up being a bigger prospect by the time he graduates. To many tools.

he was supposed to be the guy who would just step in and continue the miami qb legacy. But i agree, NFL coaches know he has the tools and size and talent etc. they just believe with their tutelage they can take a so so QB from miami and turn him into the next MVP

[NoSpinZone]

Well, considering Kyle Wright may very well drop to 3rd on the depth chart this season, I highly doubt it!

And none of that will matter to the NFL scouts even if he is Scout team material at Miami next year. Stats are pretty much useless to those guys. Some midget that throws like a girl could throw 5,000 yards and run for 2000 in some of these short passing systems against some chumps competition and win the Heisman. If he doesn't have the velocity he isn't going to even get an invite to a NFL camp as QB. The Wright guy is 6-4 225 with a rocket arm and always grades out well in these pro style combine/camps he will be on draft radars regardless if the Miami offense is a joke and they win 2 games next year.

[NoSpinZone]

He didn't get a chance until Chuckie gave him the ball in Oakland and then he went to four straight Pro Bowls and was league MVP. Imagine what he could have done with younger legs (and shoulders). :(



As for Gannon, you really think he got a shot in Minnesota? xcoffeex


He was 24 years old when he took over the starting job in Minnesota. He played in 41 games throwing 1000 passes in the next three years. How can you say he didn't have a chance?? Many NFL QB's don't even play that much at that age. Say what you want those "young legs and shoulders" didn't help the guy become anything special at that point judging from the stats and apparently developed later.

I disagree that reputation maters all that much. The NFL looks at everyone and guys like Warner just couldn't cut it in the NFL camps early on and later bloomed and got a chance.. That Warner example is no different than say a Tom Brady who was under the radar didn't measure out early on all that well and almost went undrafted out of Michigan. If it was all about rep you would see Timmy Chaing types that have thrown big numbers in D1a football or as more than just marginal NFL prospects and you wouldn't see a guy from a non-scholarship football team on Kipers top prospects. You also wouldn't see about 4 or 5 MAC QB alums starting. The NFL doesn't care where you play if you can play they will find you and sign you.

[89Hen]

He was 24 years old when he took over the starting job in Minnesota. He played in 41 games throwing 1000 passes in the next three years. How can you say he didn't have a chance??
You are using stats that are very deceiving. How about the fact that Wade Wilson played in 11 games and Sean Salisbury 10 during the timeframe of which you speak. Fact is, Gannon was never the man there, but not because he couldn't play. Gannon had an 81.49 rating in 1991 which was really his only full year as the #1 guy in Minnesota. Not too shabby. BTW, in 1991 Wilson was an amazing 53.48 rating with 3 TD's and 10 INT's. Gannon was a frickin miracle worker with that team. :read:

[GannonFan]

You are using stats that are very deceiving. How about the fact that Wade Wilson played in 11 games and Sean Salisbury 10 during the timeframe of which you speak. Fact is, Gannon was never the man there, but not because he couldn't play. Gannon had an 81.49 rating in 1991 which was really his only full year as the #1 guy in Minnesota. Not too shabby. BTW, in 1991 Wilson was an amazing 53.48 rating with 3 TD's and 10 INT's. Gannon was a frickin miracle worker with that team. :read:

Agreed - even in the year where Gannon got any shot at the starting job he got pulled from the job late in the year with the Vikes something like 8-3 and they preceeded to then miss the playoffs. Gannon was never well liked by Denny Green (and considering his awful track record with handling QB's that's not a surprise) and that's the main reason he never got a real chance at Minnesota. Green was practically digging for a reason to not go with Gannon.

[*****]

Explain to me how a 1-AA QB (Alcorn State --- SWAC Conference) can compete for the Heisman (a 1-A Award)???
As for Johnson.... I can't say anything about him because I have never seen him play.Okay, you can't say anything. Johnson is legit no matter where he plays now.

As for McNair, how about 111 first place votes for the Heisman? Is that a marketing ploy? C'mon and look up stuff. A simple google search for "Heisman Trophy McNair" got this:
http://www.heisman.com/winners/r-salaam94.html

The Voting
Points
Place Name School Class Position 1 2 3 Total
1st Rashaan Salaam Colorado Jr. RB 400 229 85 1,743
2nd Ki-Jana Carter Penn State Jr. RB 115 205 146 901
3rd Steve McNair Alcorn State Sr. QB 111 85 152 655
4th Kerry Collins Penn State Sr. QB 101 117 102 639
5th Jay Barker Alabama Sr. QB 36 58 71 295
6th Warren Sapp Miami (Florida) Jr. DT 17 37 67 192
7th Eric Zeier Georgia Sr. QB 7 15 32 83
8th Lawrence Phillips Nebraska So. RB 1 8 21 40
9th Napoleon Kaufman Washington Sr. RB 3 3 12 27
10th Zach Wiegert Nebraska Sr. OT 1 7 10 27

[letsgopards04]

That list reminded of all the chumps that get noticed for the Heisman (mostly Salaam and Phillips).

[Peems]

That list reminded of all the chumps that get noticed for the Heisman (mostly Salaam and Phillips).

the only one of those guys who amounted to anything in the NFL(besides McNair) was sapp and he is well on his decline. Kerry collins was a bust in my opinion.

[NE MT GRIZZ]

Can anyone compare the numbers from Dave Dickensens final two years with McNairs final two. I think they must be really close and find it strange that Dave never got the Heisman attention that Mcnair had.

[NE MT GRIZZ]

Can anyone compare the numbers from Dave Dickensens final two years with McNairs final two. I think they must be really close and find it strange that Dave never got the Heisman attention that Mcnair had.


Dave 1995 sr 4176 yds 38 tds 9 int 168.6 qb rating

Steve 1994 sr 4863 44 n/a 155 qb rating


McNair never won a playoff game, (2) 1st rd exits.
Dickensen threw for 1500 yards and 13 more TD in the 1995 playoffs, capping off our 1st NC.

I think Dave could have done well in the right NFL scheme. (Baltimore, Tampa)

[Peems]

Can anyone compare the numbers from Dave Dickensens final two years with McNairs final two. I think they must be really close and find it strange that Dave never got the Heisman attention that Mcnair had.

not final two but here are numbers from there respective payton award years.

McNair: threw for 5,377 yards and 47 touchdowns and was 356/612

Dickenson: threw for 4,176 yards and 38 touchdowns.

Plus McNair is the all-time career leader in total yards in all of the NCAA with 16,823. in the end McNair getting the heisman votes was recognizing not only his stellar year that he had, but also his amazing career.

(but dont fret dave still got the payton and a national championship:D )

[MiamiTorero]

I know a lot of you will laugh at my post and thats fine I really dont care because I blocked for him and trust him with my team... but I think in the future Josh will be a good QB in the NFL with the right opportunities ,training , and coaching. He has a great attitude and is really dedicated.

[DaGriz]

Kiper just does not see the small school guys. If you noticed last year he never even talked about Marques Colston before the draft.


Yes he did, he mentioned him as a sleeper on the the Dan Patrick show and Colin Cowherd show.