I would like to see a new conference formed.

[doneagain]

Please don't crucify me as I am just making conversation since the season is now over.

The way the eastern conferences are stretched out right now, it would make more sense to me if some of the better supported teams could breaek away and form their own conference that would generate better regional rivalries and eliminate inflating travel costs. You can't tell me that it is economical for Maine to travel to Williamsburg to play William and Mary as a conference road game.

The new conference, which for arguments sake I will call the "Southern Coast Conference" will be a full 12-team all sports confernece split into two "6 team divisions." A championship game could be played, but I prefer not to have the championship game. That is what the playoffs are for anyway.

Now, I know this plan would never go over for various reasons, but I happen to think it is a good idea. You may not and that is cool too.

Anyway, the 12 teams would come from the following bordering states in the South East: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee & Georgia. The teams I picked were based on average per game attendance and proximity to each other.

NORTH DIVISION
Appy State
Norfolk State
Liberty
James Madison
Hampton
William & Mary

SOUTH DIVISION
NC A&T
Tenn State
Furman
South Carolina State
Citadel
Georgia Southern

All of these teams averaged over 10,000 fans per home game last season, and despite the contrasting backgrounds of some of the schools, the atmosphere of playing in front of larger crowds is always more exciting. With the conference games all being within reasonable driving distance, I think you would see attendance go up even more for each team because of the ability of opposing fans to attend their own teams away games more easily.

Having a strong, all-sports 12 team conference adds stability to each school's athletic department and helps to build a strong, secure future for the schools that are members of the conference.

There are several other schools that just geographically don't make any sense, but deserve better as far as conference affiliation goes, based on overall success and most importantly - fan support. I won't list them all, but some of those schools like Delaware, Montana, and Youngstown State deserve better than what they have as far as conference affiliation. Not saying there aren't some quality schools in their respective conferences, but the cream rises to the top and they should have better support overall from their conference mates.

There were some other teams I considered that were reasonable close by, but I tried to be strict in my two main criteria of fan support and geography.

Anyway, I just thought I would throw that out there. I love talking about college football enjoy hearing what others have to say as well.

[youwouldno]

I'd like $20 million, sure would take a lot of pressure off my law school exams. But the chances of someone walking up to me and handing me a check for $20 million is much, much, much higher than the chances Furman or W&M would be in the same conference as Norfolk St.

[pantherclaw]

interesting, several good points, but i do take a couple of issue with a couple of your last statements. What conference would Montana go to if they were'nt in the BSC. other than moving up to the WAC or something. and while I agree YSU seems to be geographiclly out of the Gateway's "area" i disagree, and i prove this one fact, what team has beaten YSU all six years they've been in the Gateway? UNI. The Gateway is a deep conference, and to be honest, while the last two years the 'Guins have been very good, previously not so much since 2000. So does YSU deserve a better conference, IMO i think they're good where they're at. Like I said good points, i don't know/care enough about the intracies of eastern football to really argue over that.

[doneagain]

I'd like $20 million, sure would take a lot of pressure off my law school exams. But the chances of someone walking up to me and handing me a check for $20 million is much, much, much higher than the chances Furman or W&M would be in the same conference as Norfolk St.

Hence my stating it would never go over for various reasons, but I respect your opinion.

[Go...gate]

I'd like $20 million, sure would take a lot of pressure off my law school exams. But the chances of someone walking up to me and handing me a check for $20 million is much, much, much higher than the chances Furman or W&M would be in the same conference as Norfolk St.

What exams are you worried about? I well understand, Law School Finals were also a time of great anxiety for me as well.

[youwouldno]

What exams are you worried about? I well understand, Law School Finals were also a time of great anxiety for me as well.

Well I meant generally, it's early in the 2nd semester (I'm a 1L). I'm probably most worried about civ pro, but I think that's pretty much par for the course...

[th0m]

It is an interesting conference although it will obviously not fly for various reasons. I don't know if they average 10k a game, but I'd consider swapping Norfolk State with Richmond so W&M still has their long-time rival in conference. They also field a better team most years.

As far as your comment regarding Montana, YSU and Delaware 'deserving' better conferences because they're always at the top, that only rings true for Montana really. Delaware and YSU, while still very good and flagship FCS schools, don't quite dominate their conferences as much as they did.

[89Hen]

Delaware and YSU, while still very good and flagship FCS schools, don't quite dominate their conferences as much as they did.
This is true and Delaware is also really struggling in all other CAA sports. The only program worth a hill of beans is the women's bball.

[BisonBacker]

Put Montana in a different conference other then the BSC and it would be interesting to see if they fared so well. The BSC is full of average at best teams. By the same token put a team like YSU or APPY in the BSC or one like it and it would be the same thing. Total domination, it's tough to compare conferences, Montana has a good team but Many teams who field a better then average team could do well in the BSC.

[henfan]

A little bit of constructive criticism for future reference; I'm not ripping you. Whenever you consider future sports conference affiliations, you have to account for entire institutional philosophies, not just the pedestrian needs of particular football programs. All kinds of elements enter into the equation that aren't directly related to football or sports in general (academics, recruiting area of the general student population, compatability with proposed mates, financial considerations, etc.) When you do that, the conference you proposed represents no improvement over where the schools involved are presently.

I don't know that the Univ. of Delaware feels like it deserves better in terms of an athletic conference affiliation. They seem happy where they are in the CAA. The CAA represents a tremendous challenge for UD right now, given the school's historic and current level of institutional support for athletics. In other word's, the CAA is about as good as it's going to get, which is hardly chopped liver.

[putter]

Put Montana in a different conference other then the BSC and it would be interesting to see if they fared so well. The BSC is full of average at best teams. By the same token put a team like YSU or APPY in the BSC or one like it and it would be the same thing. Total domination, it's tough to compare conferences, Montana has a good team but Many teams who field a better then average team could do well in the BSC.


Put Appy St. in any conference and they would be at the top, not just in the Big Sky. I disagree with the average at best comment as there are good programs in the BSC, however, overall consistency in the conference is not there.

[aztecjim]

First,I personally don't like multi-division conferences. Do you plan on the teams playing an 11(12?) game season,play a league championship game then head in to the playoffs? Even if you ask the coaches from FBS they hate the league championship games. Second, would the HBCUs be willing to split up? Even in OOC games they mostly play only each other even though they are getting more and more willing to play non HBCUs.

[Go...gate]

Well I meant generally, it's early in the 2nd semester (I'm a 1L). I'm probably most worried about civ pro, but I think that's pretty much par for the course...

Agreed, Civ Pro is a pain in the ass, and like every other law school course, they never give you enough time to get the coursework done! :bang: Just try to brief the casebook cases and keep up with the reading :read: - both as much as possible. It makes studying for the final so much easier because by doing this, you plant a lot of stuff in your head as you go along. Also, buy a good commercial "can" or outline and keep it handy. Best of luck - you will do OK if you hang in there with it every day.

[89Hen]

First,I personally don't like multi-division conferences.
Coming from a fan with a team in one, I don't either.

[Saint3333]

If we're dreaming how about:

ASU
Furman
GSU
WCU
Delaware
JMU
ODU (when they get football)
Richmond
Bill & Mary


Add three or five of the following for bball: Davidson, CofC, George Mason, Georgia State, VCU, and UNCW.

If the bball schools of the SoCon and CAA ever started a new conference the MVC better look out:

Davidson
CofC
UNCG
Drexel
George Mason
Georgia State
ODU
UNCW
VCU
Wintrop (Big South)

[BearsCountry]

If the bball schools of the SoCon and CAA ever started a new conference the MVC better look out:

Davidson
CofC
UNCG
Drexel
George Mason
Georgia State
ODU
UNCW
VCU
Wintrop (Big South)

xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Saint3333]

Funny huh?

See RPI rankings while playing in the 14th and 16th best conferences, with some BAD teams (sub 250 teams) JMU 299 and Wofford 303 in RPI.

Proposed bball conference members RPI in average conferences:

VCU - 46
Drexel - 52
Davidson - 67
Winthrop - 73
ODU -85
George Mason - 117
CofC - 121
UNCG - 188
GSU - 245 (down year)
UNCW - 267 (worst year in the past 10 years, typically a top 100 RPI team)

Remember your opponents winning % is 50% of the RPI calculation thus these numbers would be considerably higher. These numbers are actually very comparable with the MVC's from the 2000-2004 seasons. Give this league three years and this conference would be placing 3-4 teams in the dance annually.

Anyway back to the football conferences.

[SO ILLmatic]

Give this league three years and this conference would be placing 3-4 teams in the dance annually.


This will only happen if Gary Williams gets his wish and they expand the tournament. So Maryland can finally get in the tourney year after year.

But until this happens, 2 bid league at the most.

[danefan]

Agreed, Civ Pro is a pain in the ass, and like every other law school course, they never give you enough time to get the coursework done! :bang: Just try to brief the casebook cases and keep up with the reading :read: - both as much as possible. It makes studying for the final so much easier because by doing this, you plant a lot of stuff in your head as you go along. Also, buy a good commercial "can" or outline and keep it handy. Best of luck - you will do OK if you hang in there with it every day.

Study those FRCPs and you;ll do fine!!!!!!! Remember 1L is all about time management and managing test anxiety. :) xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

[Fresno St. Alum]

How many of these schools that might add football really are gonna add it.

ETSU (2010 if things are in order)
UTSA (2010 if things are in order)
Lamar
Texas A&M-CC
Wichita St.
Georgia St.
George Mason
Kennesaw St.
Utah Valley St.
UNCC

Source was articles posted on the helmet project website.
I say ETSU,UTSA,UNCC, and Georgia St. will add. UVSC should or they won't find a conference.

[Peems]

how bout the super conference!!!
Super Conference:
Montana
App.
YSU
UNI
UMass
NDSU
Georgia Southern
Delaware
Montana State(just so the griz can beat em';) :) )

[citdog]

How about the "War League"

The Citadel
VMI
Army
Navy
Air Force
Coast Guard

[Appstate29]

how bout the super conference!!!
Super Conference:
Montana
App.
YSU
UNI
UMass
NDSU
Georgia Southern
Delaware
Montana State(just so the griz can beat em';) :) )
THE University of San Diego

there changed it to make detroit flyer happy!

no more playoffs though :( whoever wins that conference automatically gets the nat'l championship.

[ChooChoo]

How many of these schools that might add football really are gonna add it.

ETSU (2010 if things are in order)
UTSA (2010 if things are in order)
Lamar
Texas A&M-CC
Wichita St.
Georgia St.
George Mason
Kennesaw St.
Utah Valley St.
UNCC

Source was articles posted on the helmet project website.
I say ETSU,UTSA,UNCC, and Georgia St. will add. UVSC should or they won't find a conference.

Georgia State is a lock. :nod:

[Fresno St. Alum]

Ga St., how long until it happens or at least an offical announcement?

[andy7171]

How about the "War League"

The Citadel
VMI
Army
Navy
Air Force
Coast Guard
I like it! I can see the epic battles between VMI and USCG already!

...and I bet Notre Dame would like to join too! :smiley_wi

[ChooChoo]

I have seen what appears to be "the" official statement confirming that the university intends to start football (the source is VERY reliable). The AD basically cofirmed it on the radio. This announcement isn't officially slated for another 6 to 9 months. I would think the sooner the better, but I speculate the administration may be waiting to announce it in August with the opening of the new dorm (to maximize exposure). As I said before, the when and where is ambigous, but the what, why, and how is pretty detailed. I'm sure in the CAA master plan most of the pieces would be in place within 5 years.
CAA
Northeastern
Hofstra
Villanova*
Delaware
Towson
James Madison
William and Mary
Old Dominion
Georgia State

I know many of the hardliners feel this is "watered down", but I would think releasing the affliates (save Villanova) will be best for the conference. Let's face it, entering the Norfolk and Atlanta pipeline, strengthening confernce rivalries, and eliminating travel to Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island will help in the long run (no offense, but I'm sure it's cheaper to fly to Atlanta than to drive to Orno). Even if we can add George Mason, we keep our automatic bid and have fewer teams to contend for the title.

[ChickenMan]

I have seen what appears to be "the" official statement confirming that the university intends to start football (the source is VERY reliable). The AD basically cofirmed it on the radio. This announcement isn't officially slated for another 6 to 9 months. I would think the sooner the better, but I speculate the administration may be waiting to announce it in August with the opening of the new dorm (to maximize exposure). As I said before, the when and where is ambigous, but the what, why, and how is pretty detailed. I'm sure in the CAA master plan most of the pieces would be in place within 5 years.
CAA
Northeastern
Hofstra
Villanova*
Delaware
James Madison
William and Mary
Old Dominion
Georgia State
Towson

I know many of the hardliners feel this is "watered down", but I would think releasing the affliates (save Villanova) will be best for the conference. Let's face it, entering the Norfolk and Atlanta pipeline, strengthening confernce rivalries, and eliminating travel to Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island will help in the long run (no offense, but I'm sure it's cheaper to fly to Atlanta than to drive to Orno). Even if we can add George Mason, we keep our automatic bid and have fewer teams to contend for the title.

you forgot Towson

[ChooChoo]

Sorry just caught it.

[MarkCCU]

I like how the first few words are

Please don't crucify me

Have you been verbally abused by D1b or Cap'n Cat?

[mainejeff]

(no offense, but I'm sure it's cheaper to fly to Atlanta than to drive to Orno).

Really? Dang.....What airline do you fly?

[andy7171]

I know many of the hardliners feel this is "watered down", but I would think releasing the affliates (save Villanova) will be best for the conference. Let's face it, entering the Norfolk and Atlanta pipeline, strengthening confernce rivalries, and eliminating travel to Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island will help in the long run (no offense, but I'm sure it's cheaper to fly to Atlanta than to drive to Orno). Even if we can add George Mason, we keep our automatic bid and have fewer teams to contend for the title.
The way it is now with the North and South divisions, you only travel up to three of those schools every two years. How is the trip to Hofstra and Northeastern different than URI or even Maine?
Coming from Atlanta, you're flying either way.
With all the new schools starting up football programs, something is going to HAVE to be done. And you scenario works well from your perspective, which is at the exteme southern end of the future CAA. Not sure how Hofstra, Northeastern, even Towson, Delaware, Villanova feel about giving up short trips to New England for long hauls south.

[ChickenMan]

If Georgia St does initiate a FCS program it won't matter how any of the other confernce schools feel about travel concerns... from what I understand Georgia St would automatically gain CAA football membership based on the fact that they are already a member of the CAA in other sports.

[89Hen]

If Georgia St does initiate a FCS program it won't matter how any of the other confernce schools feel about travel concerns... from what I understand Georgia St would automatically gain CAA football membership based on the fact that they are already a member of the CAA in other sports.
Do you know that's in the bylaws or are you assuming they'd have the same situation UConn had in the BE? I know that the BE had it in their bylaws and a couple schools weren't jazzed about having to admit UConn. IMO this would be different in that I think all the CAA core teams would like to have ODU and GSU join. The only one who may not like it is Northeastern, because they could lose the rest of the New England teams as conference mates.

[ChickenMan]

No... I do not know if it is in the by-laws... I assumed that it was... but even if it is not... Georgia St would likely win approval from enough of the current CAA membership to gain football admission.

[andy7171]

No... I do not know if it is in the by-laws... I assumed that it was... but even if it is not... Georgia St would likely win approval from enough of the current CAA membership to gain football admission.
I completely agree, ODU and Georgia St would definatly be shoe ins. My point was against Choo-choo's idea that the CAA was a Norfolk-Atlanta corridor conference.

[89Hen]

My point was against Choo-choo's idea that the CAA was a Norfolk-Atlanta corridor conference.
I read that as the CAA would be entering the Norfolk-Atlanta corridor.

[henfan]

Do you know that's in the bylaws or are you assuming they'd have the same situation UConn had in the BE?

89Hen, CM is correct. I also do not know if it is in CAA by-laws but I'd assume that it is. At the very least, it's a formal agreement that has been made between the CAA and it's current I-AAA members. Automatic addmittance in the football league of any current CAA I-AAA member who starts the sport has been indicated in numerous articles over the last 3 years, since ODU became interested in adding FB.

Here's one such example that I could locate immediately:



Georgia State mulls football issues

D. ORLANDO LEDBETTER
Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2 July 2005

Georgia State, with its new athletics director and a move to a new
conference complete, plans to make a decision on adding Division I-AA
football by 2007...

"The agreement that we have with the Colonial is that if we ever
decided to play football we would be guaranteed to be able to play football in the Colonial," Patton said. "Up to this point, we really couldn't
even discuss football since we were in a conference that did not play
football."

[89Hen]

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that they'd be in... just that it may not be in the bylaws, namely because the CAA football didn't exist when GSU joined. Also, don't forget that UConn's was only because they were a "Charter" member. For example if Villanova wanted to move to I-A, they would not have to be accepted into the BE, but Georgetown would... AFAIK.

Providence
St. John's
Georgetown
Syracuse
Seton Hall
Connecticut
Boston College

[henfan]

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that they'd be in... just that it may not be in the bylaws, namely because the CAA football didn't exist when GSU joined.

Neither did CAA LAX. Perhaps conference bylaws state that any full member would automatically be granted admission to any sports league (existing or new) sponsored by the conference?

The conference has been pretty up front about the fact that ODU, GSU, Mason or any other CAA I-AAA school would gain automatic admittance to the FB league. That would obviously preclude any opposition by affiliates.

[ChooChoo]

I completely agree, ODU and Georgia St would definatly be shoe ins. My point was against Choo-choo's idea that the CAA was a Norfolk-Atlanta corridor conference.

I wasn't trying to imply that it was. It obviously isn't. At least not with it's current membership. What I meant was that making football headway in Norfolk and Georgia will and can help the entire CAA as far as recruiting, new fan support, greater recognition, etc. Again, no offense to the New England schools, but establishing new programs in growing, southern markets will be more beneficial long term than relying on older, shrinking markets to persevere.
As far as my airfare comment, I suppose I was speaking from an Atlanta fan's perspective. Here's a look at AirTran flights to Atlanta as of Today:
(All fares are one-way)
Baltimore $84
Boston $84
Charlotte $49
New York (LaGuardia) $89
Newark $89
Newport News/Williamsburg $69
Philadelphia $84
Raleigh/Durham $49
Richmond $69
Washington, D.C. (Dulles) $79
Washington, D.C. (Reagan National) $79

Most of the all-sport CAA is easily accessable by the other eastern cities. You can make a roundtrip from Boston to Atlanta for less than $200. Now check out the Maine flights,
http://www.cheapflights.com/flights/Bangor/Atlanta-Intl/
It's DOUBLE!
You'd have to fly to Boston then drive another 4 or 5 hours to get to Orono. I know it's not as big a deal for the northern CAA, but there will be other schools to consider in the near future.

[89Hen]

Neither did CAA LAX. Perhaps conference bylaws state that any full member would automatically be granted admission to any sports league (existing or new) sponsored by the conference?

The conference has been pretty up front about the fact that ODU, GSU, Mason or any other CAA I-AAA school would gain automatic admittance to the FB league. That would obviously preclude any opposition by affiliates.
No doubt, but you do raise an interesting point. Do the affiliates have ANY say in CAA rule making as they pertain to full members?

[henfan]

No doubt, but you do raise an interesting point. Do the affiliates have ANY say in CAA rule making as they pertain to full members?

If the league set-up is similar to how the A-10 and Yankee ran their conferences, my guess is that the affiliates have equal votes on all league issues, which is rightful. I'd imagine those votes wouldn't superceed membership guarantees afforded by league by-laws, however.

FWIW, here's another article I found:


CAA officially adds football

MARTY O'BRIEN
Hampton Roads Daily Press
5 May 2005

RICHMOND -- Tom Yeager says he floated an idea three years ago to start
a Colonial Athletic Association football league. CAA athletic directors
didn't like it because it would've meant breaking the Atlantic 10
football league in half...

Yeager said that any of the CAA's six non-football schools will be
granted admission to the football league if they add the sport...

They'd basically be powerless to stop the entrance of any core member who wanted to start football and, probably, any potential expansion partner seeking full league membership. They would not be powerless to leave the league for affiliations elsewhere.

[89Hen]

If the league set-up is similar to how the A-10 and Yankee ran their conferences, my guess is that the affiliates have equal votes on all league issues, which is rightful. I'd imagine those votes wouldn't superceed membership guarantees afforded by league by-laws, however.
I don't think it would come to that, but what I was thinking is, what if the all-sport members decided they wanted to 'kick out' the affiliates. Do the affiliates have a 'vote' to stay? Would VCU have a vote on football? It's really a strange situation. When the BE decided to kick Temple out, there wasn't much they could do about it because it was all against one.

Now that I said I didn't think it would come to that, what if the CAA members decided they wanted to kick out ALL affiliates as a conference philosophical decision? I realize this would kill a couple sports where without the affiliates, there wouldn't be enough remain to sustain. But it could happen. Frankly, and nothing against the affiliates, I perfer a conference where everyone is a member for all sports. This is the first time in Hen history I can remember that all of our sports are under one conference, and I love it. I realize this may mean losing UR, VU, UMass... in football, but because we don't face them regularly in other sports, I wouldn't be so heartbroken that I wouldn't get over it. Not to mention that think of how easy OOC scheduling for football would become. :thumbsup:

[tribe_pride]

I have seen what appears to be "the" official statement confirming that the university intends to start football (the source is VERY reliable). The AD basically cofirmed it on the radio. This announcement isn't officially slated for another 6 to 9 months. I would think the sooner the better, but I speculate the administration may be waiting to announce it in August with the opening of the new dorm (to maximize exposure). As I said before, the when and where is ambigous, but the what, why, and how is pretty detailed. I'm sure in the CAA master plan most of the pieces would be in place within 5 years.
CAA
Northeastern
Hofstra
Villanova*
Delaware
Towson
James Madison
William and Mary
Old Dominion
Georgia State

I know many of the hardliners feel this is "watered down", but I would think releasing the affliates (save Villanova) will be best for the conference. Let's face it, entering the Norfolk and Atlanta pipeline, strengthening confernce rivalries, and eliminating travel to Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island will help in the long run (no offense, but I'm sure it's cheaper to fly to Atlanta than to drive to Orno). Even if we can add George Mason, we keep our automatic bid and have fewer teams to contend for the title.

Does this mean we are kicking Richmond out too :smiley_wi

[BearsCountry]

Does this mean we are kicking Richmond out too :smiley_wi

I see Richmond staying with the CAA schools more than Villanova.

[89Hen]

I see Richmond staying with the CAA schools more than Villanova.
FWIW, Nova and UR are more similar to each other than to any other schools in the CAA. Both private, both members of "bigger" conferences for other sports (although the CAA has pretty much caught the A10 IMO), both bball programs are better than the football... plus much of the CAA does hold a grudge for Richmond for leaving the CAA right before UD, HU and Drexel came in. So, the CAA may choose Nova if it had to choose between the two. :twocents:

[henfan]

I don't think it would come to that, but what I was thinking is, what if the all-sport members decided they wanted to 'kick out' the affiliates. Do the affiliates have a 'vote' to stay? Would VCU have a vote on football?

I'd seriously doubt it. A-10 schools without teams in the A-10 Football League (St. Bonnies, Temple, etc.) had no direct input/votes on football issues. I'd be shocked if the CAA's structure were any different.



Now that I said I didn't think it would come to that, what if the CAA members decided they wanted to kick out ALL affiliates as a conference philosophical decision? I realize this would kill a couple sports where without the affiliates, there wouldn't be enough remain to sustain. But it could happen.

Honestly, I don't know what framework is in place to achieve something like that. As far as I know, there's no history of expelling members in the CAA.

I'd imagine the conference as a whole could pass a measure against any affiliate membership but, as you suggested, it would jeapordize considerable good will and the very existence of CAA wrestling, WLAX, MLAX, not to mention a nice collection of affiliate fees. I just don't think there's enough impetus for changing things right now.

The CAA could do the following to encourage the formation of AEC FB (assuming they could ever get enough school eligible and interested to form their own league):
1) waiving any withdrawal fees for current CAA affiliates moving to a new AEC league
2) enter a scheduling agreement for FB nonconference games, which could also include Olympic sports
3) lobby the NCAA on behalf of the AEC to grant the new league an auto-bid (in other words, in behalf of playoff expansion)

Just a few thoughts.

[89Hen]

3) lobby the NCAA on behalf of the AEC to grant the new league an auto-bid (in other words, in behalf of playoff expansion)
That would be interesting. There are so many what if's right now. If NDSU and SDSU go to the Gateway, the GWFC would be dead in the water for getting an auto anytime soon. I know that UND and USD could fill their spots, but it seems like it would be awfully tough to find a sixth member and the clock would start ticking all over again for playoff eligibility. Also, any AEC (or whatever) split may include teams like Stony, Albany and CCSU which would take away any possible NEC request for an auto. So unless the Big South steps up, there would only be 9 conferences requesting an auto. I'm not sure that's enough to warrant any expansion. Instead of the A10/CAA getting 3-4 bids, those bids might simply be split between the CAA and AEC. :eyebrow:

[henfan]

Hmm. Good points about the Big South and Great West perhaps not being eligible for autobids any time soon. Hadn't though about that.

Yeah, AEC football would likely damage the NEC's chances if they lose 3 members. It's a confusing mishmash and, as you said, a boatload of 'ifs'.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Hen 89, do the NEC schools with 30 scholly really think they deserve and auto-bid? AEC football, UMass,URI,Maine,UNH,Stony Brook,Villanova, and Richmond. The last 2 could stay in the CAA if allowed. So you think that Albany and CCSU are serious about getting to 64 schollys? That would be nice CCSU could be a full member of the AEC that way. With my version of the AEC FB the NEC would still have 8 teams.

[74AppState]

How about taking ASU out of that mix. Why would ASU want to trade WCU or UTC or Wofford for Norfolk State or Liberty? MUCH longer trips, and no history or natural rivalry.

[89Hen]

Hen 89, do the NEC schools with 30 scholly really think they deserve and auto-bid? AEC football, UMass,URI,Maine,UNH,Stony Brook,Villanova, and Richmond. The last 2 could stay in the CAA if allowed. So you think that Albany and CCSU are serious about getting to 64 schollys? That would be nice CCSU could be a full member of the AEC that way. With my version of the AEC FB the NEC would still have 8 teams.
I think when they applied they were making a point. I don't think the NEC was far behind the OVC and MEAC this year. Stony, Albany and CCSU all seem to be serious about improving their programs (they already have). A Dane fan just posted something about a new stadium, Stony just upgraded their's a couple years ago, they are adding schollies... IMO all of that is the groundwork for a possible new conference with the non-full CAA members.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I know that Stony Brook went Indy. That would be great if Albany did the same and if CCSU added schollys I think that the AEC should add them as a full member much like the Big South did with G-Webb.

[aceinthehole]

I know that Stony Brook went Indy. That would be great if Albany did the same and if CCSU added schollys I think that the AEC should add them as a full member much like the Big South did with G-Webb.

I don't want to speak for Dane fans, but UA and CCSU both have big stadium plans that are about 2-3 seasons away to being completed. They both will be near the NEC-limit of 30 by next season, and I have no doubt they are looking for a fully scholly conference in the near future. That may be the AE, or a FB-only split from the CAA. Who knows.

But what incetive is there to go Indy now? With an improving 7 game NEC schedule, we can still get up to 4 non-conf matchups vs. AQ conferences (or IVY). We also get to compte for a conference title, and weekly and season honors. And as so many have cited, we are eligible for an at-large (with the right resume) as an NEC member.

IMO - The NEC is much better plan than Indy and I think SBU made a mistake.

[89Hen]

IMO - The NEC is much better plan than Indy and I think SBU made a mistake.
I agree ace, I think it may have been premature. The NEC didn't try to pin down members with a penalty for leaving, did they? Seems to me a conference did that recently (may have even been the A10 a couple years ago). That would turn me off if I were SB, but otherwise, the ONLY thing I can think of as an advantage to going Indy is if they can fill their schedule with UMass, URI, UNH... to get them used to playing them just in case they think a split is imminent. IMO a very risky move.

[aceinthehole]

I agree ace, I think it may have been premature. The NEC didn't try to pin down members with a penalty for leaving, did they? Seems to me a conference did that recently (may have even been the A10 a couple years ago). That would turn me off if I were SB, but otherwise, the ONLY thing I can think of as an advantage to going Indy is if they can fill their schedule with UMass, URI, UNH... to get them used to playing them just in case they think a split is imminent. IMO a very risky move.

I think if SBU would have waited to see how this season turned out, they might have had a second thought, but its been well cited that their AD is a lunitic anyway. For him to compare SBU with UConn, loses a lot of credibility in my book. He is taking a huge gamble, but they must have some $$$ to play with - he's buying TV time on MSG for FB and hoops.

The one huge advantage SBU had in going Indy was the stadium - its great! They have gotten home/home deal with all the teams for 2007 and 2008. I also worry about scheduling late season, but with odd number of teams in some conferences I guess their is the opportunity to schedule OOC. Its certainly not something I want to do for more than 2 seasons.

[Fresno St. Alum]

SBU had to leave the NEC because they are now over 30 schollys which is the max allowed in the NEC.

[BearsCountry]

If they could an automatic bid America East football would be nice to see:

Albany
Central Connecticut State
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Villanova

[Fresno St. Alum]

Will the Patroit League want to take an 8th member for football like Richmond or Villanova if the CAA splits?

[henfan]

Will the Patroit League want to take an 8th member for football like Richmond or Villanova if the CAA splits?

Of course they would, which is why the league offered UR a slot in '05. There's almost no chance of either school leaving the CAA FB league any time soon for all of the reasons mentioned previously.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

If they could an automatic bid America East football would be nice to see:

Albany
Central Connecticut State
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Villanova

I'm not sure that UMass, UNH and Villanova would agree with you. And frankly, that aptly described by Ace lunatic of an AD at Stony Brook probably has his eyes on something much grander than that AE Football League.

And I don't think there is a snowball's chance in Hades of Villanova aligning with that group of schools. Which in turn makes it less attractive to UMass and UNH.

UNH may get boxed into a corner because of their all sports affiliation with America East, but if UMass isn't involved in the football conference then I think UNH will fight any AE pressure tooth and nail. JMHO.

[danefan]

SBU had to leave the NEC because they are now over 30 schollys which is the max allowed in the NEC.

SBU announced their leave before they added the schollies.

[henfan]

While many are busy considering that the AEC might add football, perhaps it won't be the AEC at all. If the NEC were to relax the cap on schollies, they'd be in a much better position with 6 core football members to pick up an A-10 affiliate like URI to go along with fellow A-10'er Duquesne.

[danefan]

While many are busy considering that the AEC might add football, perhaps it won't be the AEC at all. If the NEC were to relax the cap on schollies, they'd be in a much better position with 6 core football members to pick up an A-10 affiliate like URI to go along with fellow A-10'er Duquesne.

The problem is the bottom of the league (St Francis, Wagner, Sacred Heart, etc.) won't soften the cap on schollies. the 30 cap is a compromise as it is. UA, CCSU, Monmouth are trying to get it to 45, but its not working quickly enough.

[henfan]

The problem is the bottom of the league (St Francis, Wagner, Sacred Heart, etc.) won't soften the cap on schollies. the 30 cap is a compromise as it is. UA, CCSU, Monmouth are trying to get it to 45, but its not working quickly enough.

At some point soon, St Francis, Wagner & Sacred Heart probably understand that they will have to either agree to further soften the cap or run the risk of losing their football league, core members (like CCSU and/or Monmouth) and possibly even their football programs. There's not much of a choice for them to make, really.

[danefan]

At some point soon, St Francis, Wagner & Sacred Heart probably understand that they will have to either agree to further soften the cap or run the risk of losing their football league, core members and possibly even their football programs. There's not much of a choice for them to make, really. They've got way too much at stake.

Unless they flee to the MAAC somehow.

[henfan]

Unless they flee to the MAAC somehow.

Or, more likely, absord the 4 remaining MAAC members. But even that could still leave the NEC scrambling for core members and not the most stable FB league.

[DrG]

I'm not sure that UMass, UNH and Villanova would agree with you. And frankly, that aptly described by Ace lunatic of an AD at Stony Brook probably has his eyes on something much grander than that AE Football League.

And I don't think there is a snowball's chance in Hades of Villanova aligning with that group of schools. Which in turn makes it less attractive to UMass and UNH.

UNH may get boxed into a corner because of their all sports affiliation with America East, but if UMass isn't involved in the football conference then I think UNH will fight any AE pressure tooth and nail. JMHO.
From UMass' standpoint, I absolutely agree with this. Until and unless UMass seriously contemplates moving up, they are virtually joined at the hip with UNH regarding football, and I would doubt either school would be interested in joining an AEC/NEC hybrid. Maybe not Maine either.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I think what is being said is if the CAA splits and only allows CAA full members in the FB league Nova,UMass and the others would form a new conference. None of them would want to leave unless they had too.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I'm not sure that UMass, UNH and Villanova would agree with you. And frankly, that aptly described by Ace lunatic of an AD at Stony Brook probably has his eyes on something much grander than that AE Football League.

And I don't think there is a snowball's chance in Hades of Villanova aligning with that group of schools. Which in turn makes it less attractive to UMass and UNH.

UNH may get boxed into a corner because of their all sports affiliation with America East, but if UMass isn't involved in the football conference then I think UNH will fight any AE pressure tooth and nail. JMHO.


UNH, are you saying that Stony Brook may have its eyes on being a Big East affiliate or a member of the MAC?

[henfan]

I think what is being said is if the CAA splits and only allows CAA full members in the FB league Nova,UMass and the others would form a new conference. None of them would want to leave unless they had too.

Except for the reservations demonstrated by UNH & UMass fans, I'm not sure that's what's being said at all.

1) The CAA isn't likely to require all sport membership for its FB affiliates because the conference depends heavily on affiliates for other sports, namely LAX and wrestling. Affiliates will remain an important part of the CAA. (There's also financial reasons for that.)

2) 'Nova is unlikely to leave the CAA FB league, unless they eliminate FB or move to the BCS- both very highly unlikely. (VU is also a CAA affiliate in LAX as well as FB.)

3) There may be one or two CAA affiliates that would voluntarily leave the conference for the right reasons or out of necessity.

4) The America East is interested in its own FB league but doesn't have the critical mass to pull it off right now. UMaine, UNH, Albany and Stony Brook are the only AEC members with FB. The AEC will probably need to expand its core league by at least two schools (both with FB) to have a reasonable chance at fielding its own FB conference, rounding the league out with a couple of affiliates like Rhody.

Clear as mud, right?

[SpartanLegion]

This is all interesting.

[Fresno St. Alum]

henfan, Lets say the CAA keeps all 12 now plus ODU, 13. Does the CAA really want 13 football members hard scheduling that way. The MAC has 13for football again and the side with 7 had one more conference game than the side with 6 last time(w/Marshall). If Georgia St. adds FB that would level off the conference, but 14 is a lot for a FB conference.

[henfan]

henfan, Lets say the CAA keeps all 12 now plus ODU, 13. Does the CAA really want 13 football members hard scheduling that way. The MAC has 13for football again and the side with 7 had one more conference game than the side with 6 last time(w/Marshall). If Georgia St. adds FB that would level off the conference, but 14 is a lot for a FB conference.

ODU's addition won't be a cataclysmic event. Nope, 13 is not an ideal number for a conference, but is certainly workable in the short term.

And, despite rumors to the contrary, it's premature to assume Georgia State will field a FB team anytime soon. They haven't made any announcements. Even if they manage to pull it off, they wouldn't be joining the CAA for another 5 or 6 years. Again, 14 is manageable but not ideal over the long term.

As has always been the case with FCS leagues, change is the only constant. However, there appears to be no sense of urgency to break up a league that's been together in some shape of form since before the founding of I-AA (as the Yankee, then A-10, now CAA.) The CAA possesses an AQ and is not in any hurry to jettison affiliates- even if it wanted to; even if it could. If affiliates feel they have to leave for whatever reason, they'll do so on their own accord when the time is right and, I'd imagine, without much acrimony.

[89Hen]

ODU's addition won't be a cataclysmic event. Nope, 13 is not an ideal number for a conference, but is certainly workable in the short term.
Not so sure. Remember the days of 9 conference games with some match-ups being a conference game for one team, but not the other. :rotateh: : smh :

[Go...gate]

How about the "War League"

The Citadel
VMI
Army
Navy
Air Force
Coast Guard

Need to add USMMA (Kings Point).

I would also change the name to the "War and Peace Conference" to give it a diplomatic ring. :)

[Go...gate]

Will the Patroit League want to take an 8th member for football like Richmond or Villanova if the CAA splits?

Yes, but neither school really wants to be in the PL for football.

[henfan]

Not so sure. Remember the days of 9 conference games with some match-ups being a conference game for one team, but not the other. :rotateh: : smh :

Right, but, if I remember correctly, that situation was created by the unexpected late departure of BU and not because there were 9 teams.

[henfan]

Yes, but neither school really wants to be in the PL for football.

Agreed and, unfortunately for the PL, VU and UR are under the wrong-headed impression that their league necessarily equals a lesser brand of football (less commitment/lower competitive level.) Nothing could be further from the truth.

[89Hen]

Right, but, if I remember correctly, that situation was created by the unexpected late departure of BU and not because there were 9 teams.
That's not how I remembered it. I wish I had better math skills and could figure it out, but if you have 7 in one division, and you play all 6 of your division mates and only 2 from the other division there wouldn't be enough teams in the 7 team division to give each of the 6 division teams an 8th conference game. Somebody (maybe two) would have to play a 9th conference game without it counting. Am I thinking through this incorrectly? :rotateh:

[Sir William]

The Super Southern Conference (football only)

Northern Division:

James Madison
William & Mary
Richmond
Appalachian State
Elon
Western Carolina


Southern Division:

Jacksonville State
Georgia Southern
The Citadel
Furman
Wofford
Chattanooga

[lizrdgizrd]

Not so sure. Remember the days of 9 conference games with some match-ups being a conference game for one team, but not the other. :rotateh: : smh :
How did that work? :confused:

[mainejeff]

The Northern/Mid-Atlantic Super All-Sports Conference:

Maine
UNH
Northeastern
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson

Nah.....that would make too much sense.

xcoffeex

[henfan]

This 'football only' discussion is just silly. These fantasy concoctions, while they might jibe geographically, ignore many of the realities of D-I athletics. The most desirable conference affiliations are those that exist for all sports. In the absence of that, schools will only join single sport conferences as a last ditch effort for purposes of scheduling convenience and/or AQ access. Conferences like the SoCon, PL, CAA, etc. aren't going to permit their members to withdrawl one sport while maintaining membership for other sports... well, maybe, Davidson gets the exception.

Very probably there aren't going to be any new 'football only' conferences formed, particularly for teams already involved in conferences with existing AQs. It also just doesn't make sense from the NCAA organizational and voting standpoints (i.e.- no representation on D-I Management Council, etc.)

[mainejeff]

This 'football only' discussion is just silly. These fantasy concoctions, while they might jibe geographically, ignore many of the realities of D-I athletics. The most desirable conference affiliations are those that exist for all sports. In the absence of that, schools will only join single sport conferences as a last ditch effort for purposes of scheduling convenience and/or AQ access. Conferences like the SoCon, PL, CAA, etc. aren't going to permit their members to withdrawl one sport while maintaining membership for other sports... well, maybe, Davidson gets the exception.

Very probably there aren't going to be any new 'football only' conferences formed, particularly for teams already involved in conferences with existing AQs. It also just doesn't make sense from the NCAA organizational and voting standpoints (i.e.- no representation on D-I Management Council, etc.)

My concoction isn't for "football only"....;)

[henfan]

My concoction isn't for "football only"....;)

Understood and agreed. I was referring to the idea mentioned by Sir William.

Too bad the 2000 AEC expansion plan didn't work out because we would have been closer to the idea you mentioned. Given how things have shaken out since, this can only be achieved now by mass expansion and defections in the AEC and CAA over the course of many years. I think the chance of this actually happening anything like what you've outlined is much more remote than it was 6 or more years ago... unfortunately. All of the CAA schools seem pretty happy where they are (especially the I-AAA schools) and I'd guess the same is probably true for the AEC.

[89Hen]

How did that work? :confused:
Not well. :p It was a cluster F. I can't remember the exact numbers but there were an odd number of teams that needed to play 8 or 9 games a piece so a couple teams had to play a 9th or 10th opponent so their opponent could get their 8/9th game in. The game only counted for conference standings for one of the two teams :rotateh:

[89Hen]

The Northern/Mid-Atlantic Super All-Sports Conference:

Nah.....that would make too much sense.
Maybe for you. As the southern end of that conference, I don't like it. :twocents:

[mainejeff]

Maybe for you. As the southern end of that conference, I don't like it. :twocents:

Oh yeah.....I forgot......Delaware is the Center of the Universe. :rolleyes:

Guess that you'll never be happy with anything other than the CAA then because that is the only conference that you are even remotely in the center of.......

[GannonFan]

Oh yeah.....I forgot......Delaware is the Center of the Universe. :rolleyes:

Guess that you'll never be happy with anything other than the CAA then because that is the only conference that you are even remotely in the center of.......

There's always the Big East... ;)

[ChickenMan]

Oh yeah.....I forgot......Delaware is the Center of the Universe. :rolleyes:



no... just the center of the CAA... ;)

[mainejeff]

There's always the Big East... ;)

You're not at the center of that one either.

[Col Hogan]

The Northern/Mid-Atlantic Super All-Sports Conference:

Maine
UNH
Northeastern
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson

Nah.....that would make too much sense.

xcoffeex

I like the line-up...keeps our main "rivals" together and travel friendly...and I know you say in a later post that it's not football only...

But can it truely be an "all sports" alignment...something might be important to one school, and not another.

For example, Maine, UNH and UMass all have hockey programs...do the others?

UMass has a great LAX program...can the other schools match that need?

Is it possible to get a group of schools with perfectly sync'd needs into one conference, or is the current hodge podge of conferences for the different sports a necessity? :twocents:

[Dane96]

Considering UA has beaten UMASS in the past two seasons, Stony Brook is darn good, Towson is Towson, Delaware is a Top 15 team, Hofstra rocks....yep...I think LAX would be taken care of.

In fact, a league featuring UMASS, Albany, Stony Brook, Towson, Hofstra, and Delaware, would arguably be in the Top 2-3 leagues in the country. I think every team in that group has made the Tournament in the past 4-5 years.

[Col Hogan]

Considering UA has beaten UMASS in the past two seasons, Stony Brook is darn good, Towson is Towson, Delaware is a Top 15 team, Hofstra rocks....yep...I think LAX would be taken care of.

In fact, a league featuring UMASS, Albany, Stony Brook, Towson, Hofstra, and Delaware, would arguably be in the Top 2-3 leagues in the country. I think every team in that group has made the Tournament in the past 4-5 years.

I haven't followed LAX that closely but that's great...:hurray:

how about hockey? I think my point is...is it possible to get one conference that takes care of everything? LAX and hockey are just two sports that came to mind. I think the proposal by mainejeff is worth discussion...but let's not start down a road that means other sports have to rearrange everything AGAIN.

[89Hen]

Oh yeah.....I forgot......Delaware is the Center of the Universe. :rolleyes:
Yes, it is... for Hen fans. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Like I said, perfect in your eyes, NOT in my eyes.

[henfan]

Guess that you'll never be happy with anything other than the CAA then because that is the only conference that you are even remotely in the center of.......

Well, given that UD is located in the approximate geographic center of the Atlantic Coast, that's not too unreasonable an expectation. But you touched on part of the allure of the CAA for UD.

[Saint3333]

The Super Southern Conference (football only)

Northern Division:

James Madison
William & Mary
Richmond
Appalachian State
Elon
Western Carolina

Southern Division:

Jacksonville State
Georgia Southern
The Citadel
Furman
Wofford
Chattanooga

Exchange Elon for Delaware.

[GOKATS]

how bout the super conference!!!
Super Conference:
Montana
App.
YSU
UNI
UMass
NDSU
Georgia Southern
Delaware
Montana State(just so the griz can beat em';) :) )

Dream on little broom stick cowboy.:nono: