AppSt Titles = More and More Students

[TexasTerror]

And who was it that said that an NCAA Division I National Championship does nothing for you? Apparently, it does. There's no question that the exposure, even if it doesn't compare to the BS brother that is FBS football, that winning the highest recognized national title in the land does mean a lot for the school...
--------------
Admissions Office adapts to growing popularity
Tuesday, 30 January 2007
by DREW STEWART
Intern Sports Reporter

An unmatched number of freshmen came to Appalachian State University this year.

If this trend continues, then next year’s class will again be one for the record books.

But why so much interest?

Director of Appalachian Admissions Paul Hyatt said Appalachian’s two Division I Football Championship Subdivision National Championships may have been a catalyst to bring Appalachian State into graduating high school seniors’ minds.

http://theapp.appstate.edu/content/view/1914/56/

[appfan2008]

As a junior here at ASU i can say i came here for the location, but also the snow.

[TexasTerror]

Well, anything is better than the "infamous" Appalachian State recruitment video that's just HOT HOT HOT... :lol:

An NCAA Division I national title can do the trick...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVENWl8uBeg

[youwouldno]

Logical fallacy. Just because App St had more applications and acceptances proves absolutely nothing with regard to their FCS title. Many schools have grown recently due to the structure of the US population (though soon the boom will be over).

A boost in applications, at any college, probably has a variety of causal factors. While athletic success is one possible factor, to claim this particular article as "evidence" is simply a false statement.

[Mountaineer#96]

I came to play football, of course that was in 2003...........before we had the amount of exposure we have now.

I chose over Wofford, ECU, and Duke.

[No_Skill]

Well, anything is better than the "infamous" Appalachian State recruitment video that's just HOT HOT HOT... :lol:

An NCAA Division I national title can do the trick...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVENWl8uBeg

Man, I fricken love that thing. I showed it to my wife for the first time today, and she got this confused look on her face and said, "what are they, a bunch of hillbillies?" I said "no, they are Mountaineers". She followed that up with, "man, that music is rockin' ". You can't buy that kind of publicity.

[HiHiYikas]

Logical fallacy. Just because App St had more applications and acceptances proves absolutely nothing with regard to their FCS title. Many schools have grown recently due to the structure of the US population (though soon the boom will be over).

A boost in applications, at any college, probably has a variety of causal factors. While athletic success is one possible factor, to claim this particular article as "evidence" is simply a false statement.
The article itself makes this abundantly clear.

[youwouldno]

I'm not knocking the article. TexasTerror is misrepresenting it, however...

[GannonFan]

Even the "Flutie Effect" at the FBS level was basically a bunch of wishful thinking - sports success has little to no impact on admissions. Bad misleading title to this thread. :nono:

[APP91]

Even the "Flutie Effect" at the FBS level was basically a bunch of wishful thinking - sports success has little to no impact on admissions. Bad misleading title to this thread. :nono:
Yes, but it does not hurt either:smiley_wi xsmileyclapx

[HiHiYikas]

I'm not knocking the article. TexasTerror is misrepresenting it, however...
That's kinda what I thought. It's actually one of the better student articles I've read.

[Jacks02]

Well, anything is better than the "infamous" Appalachian State recruitment video that's just HOT HOT HOT... :lol:

An NCAA Division I national title can do the trick...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVENWl8uBeg


Wow.....just...wow....xidiotx

[patssle]

Even the "Flutie Effect" at the FBS level was basically a bunch of wishful thinking - sports success has little to no impact on admissions. Bad misleading title to this thread. :nono:

tell that to Boise State.

http://media.www.arbiteronline.com/media/storage/paper890/news/2007/01/22/News/Bowl-Win.Spikes.Admissions.Interest.Students.Can.Still. Apply.For.Spring.Semester-2655941.shtml?sourcedomain=www.arbiteronline.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com


“The admissions office has received a 135 percent increase in online inquiries since the Fiesta Bowl,” Kustra said.

Boise State’s graduate school has received 10 times as many application inquiries as it normally does in early January.

[89Hen]

“The admissions office has received a 135 percent increase in online inquiries since the Fiesta Bowl,” Kustra said.

Boise State’s graduate school has received 10 times as many application inquiries as it normally does in early January.
We'll see how it pans out.

[GSUISBACK]

Well since enrollment is for the most part limited by spaces available and housing options applications can go up ten fold but enrollment will take years to increase.

[GannonFan]

Here's a link to an article discussing this "Flutie Effect" idea - if you google that there's tons of others. No agreement that there is any long term gains from such a thing as a successful sports team.

http://www.economist.com/debate/freeexchange/2007/01/flutie_effect.cfm

[mountain man]

Well since enrollment is for the most part limited by spaces available and housing options applications can go up ten fold but enrollment will take years to increase.

Even if the actual student body population doesn't grow significantly, the quality of the student body increases. More applications lead to better students, more diversity, more opportunities, and more exposure for the university.

[GannonFan]

Even if the actual student body population doesn't grow significantly, the quality of the student body increases. More applications lead to better students, more diversity, more opportunities, and more exposure for the university.

What if only bad students are the new ones applying? No clear expectation that the increase in applications are all good ones. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

Even if the actual student body population doesn't grow significantly, the quality of the student body increases. More applications lead to better students, more diversity, more opportunities, and more exposure for the university.
No data to support that. Why would people that would be attracted to a school because of a football title be better students? It may just be more of the same.

[CCU97]

Even if the actual student body population doesn't grow significantly, the quality of the student body increases. More applications lead to better students, more diversity, more opportunities, and more exposure for the university.


More applications does not always lead to better students or diversity....If you have say 20% diversity and only 10% of the new applicants bring diversity to the table(in a broad sense) then you actually would decline....if your average SAT score for last years class is 1150....having more students apply does not mean that they are quality students...they could score an average of 1000 on the SAT and actually bring the numbers down for a school....You can only hope that more applications means that all of these things will improve....I've worked in admissions and financial aid for 9 years and unfortunately there really is no rhyme or reason to the numbers of a school....schools also work the numbers....not just one or two schools but all schools....I've been at schools that where growing throughout my career and just because you even admit more students and they actually show up for classes...the quality can go down...or it may go up...everything depends on the overall quality of each applicant that decides to show up for classes.If App St increases diversity and quality of students it will have more to do with the fact that App St has increased the quality of education you can receive and that a degree from App St is worth more today than it was a few years ago.:twocents:

[lizrdgizrd]

The article makes clear that while sports may increase name recognition and get more eyes looking at the school, it's the programs, location, and academic reputation that prompt more and better students to apply. No one's denying that good sports exposure helps focus eyes in your direction, it's not proven that it increases the quality of applicants.

[89Hen]

No one's denying that good sports exposure helps focus eyes in your direction, it's not proven that it increases the quality of applicants.
:nod: That's all I've been saying during this discussion. Futhermore, I can't refute that an increase in quality is possible; I just haven't seen any figures to support that it's actual.

[lizrdgizrd]

:nod: That's all I've been saying during this discussion. Futhermore, I can't refute that an increase in quality is possible; I just haven't seen any figures to support that it's actual.
I think it's important to note that the sports prominence that accrues due to a great season/game only lasts for a short time and won't help in the long run unless repeated.

[doneagain]

As a guy that has degrees from a BCS school and a NAIA school, I can tell you that at WVU our enrollment has increased dramatically over the last several years. WVU has had unprecedented success in football and basketball at the same time the last couple of years and attendance has boomed. However, in our state, we have the "Promise Scholarship" which pays for tuition to any instate school if you meet certain strict criteria. That has been a big reason over the last 5 years as well, for the dramatic increase in enrollment. Some say it is the athletic success, some say it is the scholarship. Probably it is somewhere in between.

My other degree is from Mountain State University, also in WV and they have recently won a national title in NAIA basketball and have continued to do very well in BB. They do not have a football team though. This school is also eligible for the same scholarship, but attendance has actually declined, despite teh scholarship and the BB success.

It is hard to say what causes a spike in attendance/enrollment but I do not think success on the field hurts at all when it comes to attracting students to your school. I won't say it is proven that it helps, but I definitely don't think it hurts.

[eaglesrthe1]

No data to support that. Why would people that would be attracted to a school because of a football title be better students? It may just be more of the same.

Common sense does. A large increase in applications allows for more selectivity.

[lizrdgizrd]

Common sense does. A large increase in applications allows for more selectivity.
Common sense said that the sun orbited the earth. Why don't you find some data to back your assertions then we'll all happily agree! :nod:

[parr90]

Same thing happend at GSU. After the success of the football team the school at one point became the fastest growing school in the country. People notice.

[eaglesrthe1]

Common sense said that the sun orbited the earth. Why don't you find some data to back your assertions then we'll all happily agree! :nod:

That wasn't common sense, just religious dogma.

Walk out side. If you're gettin wet, it could be the guy on the tenth floor taking a whizz. In most cases though, it'll probably be raining. I wouldn't need any data then, and I don't care enough to go look for any now.

[eaglesrthe1]

Any comments from YSU folk?

[lizrdgizrd]

That wasn't common sense, just religious dogma.

Walk out side. If you're gettin wet, it could be the guy on the tenth floor taking a whizz. In most cases though, it'll probably be raining. I wouldn't need any data then, and I don't care enough to go look for any now.
I guess that whole "sunrise" and "sunset" thing are just religious dogma that we haven't sufficiently cleansed? xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

Religion only came into when someone bothered to figure out what was really going on and they didn't like the data. We promise we'll listen if you get the data.

[GannonFan]

As a guy that has degrees from a BCS school and a NAIA school, I can tell you that at WVU our enrollment has increased dramatically over the last several years. WVU has had unprecedented success in football and basketball at the same time the last couple of years and attendance has boomed. However, in our state, we have the "Promise Scholarship" which pays for tuition to any instate school if you meet certain strict criteria. That has been a big reason over the last 5 years as well, for the dramatic increase in enrollment. Some say it is the athletic success, some say it is the scholarship. Probably it is somewhere in between.

My other degree is from Mountain State University, also in WV and they have recently won a national title in NAIA basketball and have continued to do very well in BB. They do not have a football team though. This school is also eligible for the same scholarship, but attendance has actually declined, despite teh scholarship and the BB success.

It is hard to say what causes a spike in attendance/enrollment but I do not think success on the field hurts at all when it comes to attracting students to your school. I won't say it is proven that it helps, but I definitely don't think it hurts.

The thing is, enrollment may have increased simply because they wanted to make the school bigger - build more dorms, more classrooms and you can get more students. Wouldn't even take a significant drop in admission criteria to bring in a few more thousand students.

[89Hen]

Common sense does. A large increase in applications allows for more selectivity.
:bang: Only if you define selectivity as more rejections. There is no evidence that the increase in number of applicants comes from the same cross-section as the overall applicants. They may all come from the middle of the pack with the same profiles as students who are already being turned away. Heck, they may even come from worse students who are more attracted to a sports championship than the academics, campus, reputation... of a school.

[eaglesrthe1]

:bang: Only if you define selectivity as more rejections. There is no evidence that the increase in number of applicants comes from the same cross-section as the overall applicants. They may all come from the middle of the pack with the same profiles as students who are already being turned away. Heck, they may even come from worse students who are more attracted to a sports championship than the academics, campus, reputation... of a school.

Yes, and they may all come from Mars.:rolleyes:
Sorry fellas, that's about all the time I choose to waste on this subject.

[lizrdgizrd]

Yes, and they may all come from Mars.:rolleyes:
Sorry fellas, that's about all the time I choose to waste on this subject.
Yep, your superior "common sense" has won the day! Pardon us for not assuming something is true with no data to support it. :nonono2:

[89Hen]

Yes, and they may all come from Mars.:rolleyes:
No, they may not. The only stats on the subject say there is no correlation. Until somebody making the claim of improved selectivity can show some stats to back it up, you are making a worthless claim.

[Saint3333]

It does however state that alumni donations increase, which in turn funds better programs, which could lead to "better" students.

If there is a 30% increase in applicants how likely is it that all these students would fall at or below the current acceptance level of a school. I only see ASU's average SAT and GPA continuing to increase and this is occurring while growing the university ~25% over the past 5 years. I don't think for one moment that this is only because of the football program, but it certainly isn't hurting. All those games on TV and newspaper articles are great advertisements to prospective students in the region. Maybe kids will think of ASU while looking for colleges and see that they have a great business, communication, education, etc. programs and add one more school to their list. ASU now has more applicants than every school but UNC-CH and NCSU in the state.

[89Hen]

Saint, that's about as realistic a post as I've seen about the prospect of it helping improve academics. :thumbsup:

[eaglesrthe1]

Saint, that's about as realistic a post as I've seen about the prospect of it helping improve academics. :thumbsup:
http://www.christoph-woerner.de/uploaded_images/hering-admin-758195.jpg

Well yeah, but where's the freakin data!

[lizrdgizrd]

http://www.christoph-woerner.de/uploaded_images/hering-admin-758195.jpg

Well yeah, but where's the freakin data!
I thought you had it.

[james_lawfirm]

It does however state that alumni donations increase, which in turn funds better programs, which could lead to "better" students.

If there is a 30% increase in applicants how likely is it that all these students would fall at or below the current acceptance level of a school. I only see ASU's average SAT and GPA continuing to increase and this is occurring while growing the university ~25% over the past 5 years. I don't think for one moment that this is only because of the football program, but it certainly isn't hurting. All those games on TV and newspaper articles are great advertisements to prospective students in the region. Maybe kids will think of ASU while looking for colleges and see that they have a great business, communication, education, etc. programs and add one more school to their list. ASU now has more applicants than every school but UNC-CH and NCSU in the state.



I agree, Saint.

I have been reading this thread thinking that some posters have identified the right effect (increase enrollment) but have the wrong cause (winning the Nat'l Championship). For my two cents (an unscientifically developed idea), it seems to me that ASU's increased enrollment is actually due to a number of factors. These include: the administration's planning & efforts over many years; the improvements in local infrastructure (like 4 laning US421 & US321); and the positive publicity from winning the Nat'l Championship. Not winning the game in and of itself. No one comes to a school, except perhaps football recruits, just because the school won a football game. But LOTS more potential students might consider ASU after learning more about it from seeing the game on TV, including those promo shots of campus & the school sign, etc.

There is no question that ASU is a MUCH more difficult school to get accepted into now than when I was there. Back in the early 1980's, ASU was most students' 2nd or 3rd choice, except for Education majors. I know it was mine (I went to Vanderbilt my freshman year & did not like it, so I moved back closer to home.) Now, it has become many students' FIRST choice. I have heard that last year there were 12,500 applicants for 2,500 seats in the freshman class. If true, that would mean that ASU can choose its students. This would explain the higher SAT scores and GPA's being seen for freshmen.

All that said, Chancellor Peacock's attitude & antics on the sidelines during games is absolutely FANTASTIC. For all who wonder, he really is like that in-person. All I can say to other schools is, you need to choose a Chancellor more like Dr. Peacock & less like the stuffed shirts that are out there. Furthermore, Dr. Peacock's actions, contrary to public opinion, are the rational result of his knowledge that his job is to attract more good applicants. How could he better do that than to actively support his football team in its quest to win a Nat'l title?

[henfan]

FWIW, UD athletics didn't win crap in '06, but just announced an increase in applications from incoming students by 1,500 over the previous year.

[89Hen]

FWIW, UD athletics didn't win crap in '06, but just announced an increase in applications from incoming students by 1,500 over the previous year.
Yeah, but those probably aren't the 4.0/1600 students that would be attracted by a football championship. :p

[lizrdgizrd]

Yeah, but those probably aren't the 4.0/1600 students that would be attracted by a football championship. :p
Nope, they're Martians. xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Fordham]

Fordham Recruit Chooses Appy St. (http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149192940311&path=!sports!collegeteampages!appalachian!&s=1037645509234)


Bozzo (6-3, 260), who moved from inside linebacker to defensive tackle last season for Waldwick, a Group A team near New York, said that he had offers from several Northeast Conference programs as well as Fordham of the Patriot League and Towson of the Atlantic 10.

He said that he saw the Mountaineers play on television in the NCAA Division I-AA playoffs and decided to send a highlight tape.


not completely on topic but related. :bang: :bang:

[89Hen]

not completely on topic but related.
You just won the arguement for the others... any student from Fordham has to improve the average at AppSt. :p :smiley_wi

[lizrdgizrd]

You just won the arguement for the others... any student from Fordham has to improve the average at AppSt. :p :smiley_wi
:mad: :nono: :p :mad: :nono: :p :mad: :nono: :p :mad: :nono: :p :mad: :nono: :p xlolx

[Fordham]

You just won the arguement for the others... any student from Fordham has to improve the average at AppSt. :p :smiley_wi
I don't understand. :confused:








xlolx

[89Hen]

I don't understand. :confused:
You might if your team were competitive. :p

[Fordham]

You might if your team were competitive. :p

I don't understand. :confused:

trust me ... I'd have preferred to have not learned how incredibly competitive we used to be by sucking so bad these past 2 years. It really doesn't comfort me by having to have 'won' the argument that way. :smiley_wi

[Mountaineer]

Fordham Recruit Chooses Appy St. (http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149192940311&path=!sports!collegeteampages!appalachian!&s=1037645509234)

not completely on topic but related. :bang: :bang:

His parents have posted over on the MMB. They seem like great folks and they're excited as hell to get down to Boone to watch their son play this coming season. :nod: :nod:

[Killtoppers90]

My son, a HS sophomore, is looking at Appy State to attend. We are thinking about a campus visit in the spring.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think the effect is more indirect, like Saint said.

Back in the 1980s, there was not nearly as much national media exposure to FCS games, and of course there was no widespread use of the internet by the public, and yet GSU absolutely burgeoned in that decade when we had Erk Russell as our coach. And of course, we got even more national exposure with PJ as our coach, and yet the growth in PJ's time wasn't nearly as drastic...the growth in booster membership stagnated during that time also.

[texcap]

I agree that the affect is more indirect, but I still think it exists. It is probably true that very few students would pick a school based on winning the FCS championship, but for those that see the game or read about it it does put Appalachian State in their mind. That exposure helps and when time comes to choose a college they will at least give a look at Appalachian because they have heard about the school. Whether they apply and attend is based on numerous other factors, However they might not have given ASU a look had they not heard about ASU through their football championship.

For many people the first exposure they have to a college is through an athletic event of some type. Athletics can directly serve as a marketing tool for the university and in that regard a winning football team is a plus.

[lizrdgizrd]

My son, a HS sophomore, is looking at Appy State to attend. We are thinking about a campus visit in the spring.
Enjoy the trip! It's nice late in the spring. :nod: :nod: :nod:

[CITFAN]

Personally I wouldn't think that a student would attend a FCS school based on the success of the football program. I could be wrong of course.

The growing student numbers at schools like ASU makes it even more difficult for the smaller FCS schools (i.e. Wofford and EL CID) to be successful and underpins my own reasoning for why the SOCON needs to expand to a school like Samford as opposed to say, CCU.

Anyway, I expect to be slayed by the numerous CCU poster on this board very soon...:(

[BigApp]

we're equal opportunity slayers around here.
:anim_chai :anim_chai :anim_chai :anim_chai

[CITFAN]

x

[appsfan]

I would agree with those of you who have said that an increase in applications and the quality of incoming classes occur for a number of reasons. The UNC System several years ago told its constituent institutions to plan to increase enrollments. I think part of the increase is due to the demographics of the time, more potential applicants for everybody. ASU has received good press over the last several years: 1999 ranked 33rd by Kiplinger for top value among 580 public campuses; one of Time magazine's Colleges of the Year in 2001; 31st overall value by Kiplinger in 2007. This type of exposure doesn't hurt.

The average incoming Freshman scores have steadily improved over the same time: in 1999 the Average SAT score was 1075; 2001 was 1101; 2002 was 1110 (3.64 HS GPA); 2006 was 1131 (3.73 HS GPA.)

What has our football program contributed to this? Again, additional positive press should act to increase applications somewhat and give ASU more prospective students from which to choose. Currently, among NC public institutions, ASU is the 2nd most selective (behind UNC-CH) and has the highest socio-economic of all the UNC instituitions.:twocents:

[lizrdgizrd]

I would agree with those of you who have said that an increase in applications and the quality of incoming classes occur for a number of reasons. The UNC System several years ago told its constituent institutions to plan to increase enrollments. I think part of the increase is due to the demographics of the time, more potential applicants for everybody. ASU has received good press over the last several years: 1999 ranked 33rd by Kiplinger for top value among 580 public campuses; one of Time magazine's Colleges of the Year in 2001; 31st overall value by Kiplinger in 2007. This type of exposure doesn't hurt.

The average incoming Freshman scores have steadily improved over the same time: in 1999 the Average SAT score was 1075; 2001 was 1101; 2002 was 1110 (3.64 HS GPA); 2006 was 1131 (3.73 HS GPA.)

What has our football program contributed to this? Again, additional positive press should act to increase applications somewhat and give ASU more prospective students from which to choose. Currently, among NC public institutions, ASU is the 2nd most selective (behind UNC-CH) and has the highest socio-economic of all the UNC instituitions.:twocents:
Hey appsfan, I'd love to know where you got your data. Might be some more tidbits in there to ferret out. :nod: