UTC considering a move from the SoCon?

[The Cats]

The Chattanooga newspaper thinks that's the Mocs attendance problem resides in the fact that Chattanooga plays in the SoCon, and teams like Wofford, Citadel or Furman doesn't have the appeal to pull the average fan in the stadium.

Their answer is that the Mocs should move up to the Sun Belt or move to OVC, thus giving Mocs fans more appealing opponents to the Chattanooga fans.

I think the problem lies in the fact they are in Tennessee, and many of their fans (and the average local football fan the Mocs want to attract) make the weekly trip over to Knoxville - rather than come to Finley. The Mocs opponent will have little effect on that situation.



http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/college/story/2017/may/07/football-attendance-decline-may-lead-utc-look/426797/

[JSUSoutherner]

Please God revive the OVC.

Give us SOMEBODY with a pulse.

[youcanbankit]

The Chattanooga newspaper thinks that's the Mocs attendance problem resides in the fact that Chattanooga plays in the SoCon, and teams like Wofford, Citadel or Furman doesn't have the appeal to pull the average fan in the stadium.

Their answer is that the Mocs should move up to the Sun Belt or move to OVC, thus giving Mocs fans more appealing opponents to the Chattanooga fans.

I think the problem lies in the fact they are in Tennessee, and many of their fans (and the average local football fan the Mocs want to attract) make the weekly trip over to Knoxville - rather than come to Finley. The Mocs opponent will have little effect on that situation.



http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/college/story/2017/may/07/football-attendance-decline-may-lead-utc-look/426797/







My best 3 guesses......
1.) Most of the issue is.... the majority of students are commuters and transient students. Not driving back to downtown on the weekend to watch the game. If they want to travel they go to Knoxville, Nashville or Atlanta. 2.) Other is the location which they are trying to upgrade. Can be a dangerous place at night. 3.) Lastly with 12 different logo's most folks are confused what shirt to wear...lol

[BisonFan02]

The Chattanooga newspaper thinks that's the Mocs attendance problem resides in the fact that Chattanooga plays in the SoCon, and teams like Wofford, Citadel or Furman doesn't have the appeal to pull the average fan in the stadium.

Their answer is that the Mocs should move up to the Sun Belt or move to OVC, thus giving Mocs fans more appealing opponents to the Chattanooga fans.

I think the problem lies in the fact they are in Tennessee, and many of their fans (and the average local football fan the Mocs want to attract) make the weekly trip over to Knoxville - rather than come to Finley. The Mocs opponent will have little effect on that situation.



http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/college/story/2017/may/07/football-attendance-decline-may-lead-utc-look/426797/







Which makes them a perfect afterthought Sunbelt fit.

[walliver]

If their goal is increasing attendance by bringing in teams that travel well, they need to move to the SEC. OVC and SunBelt teams aren't going to bring big crowds (except AppState)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[citdog]

Does UTC have a million dollars?

[ElCid]

If their goal is increasing attendance by bringing in teams that travel well, they need to move to the SEC. OVC and SunBelt teams aren't going to bring big crowds (except AppState)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yeah, that's it, the SEC. Why isn't that on the table? I mean they are good enough right?

[DoWe]

The Chattanooga newspaper thinks that's the Mocs attendance problem resides in the fact that Chattanooga plays in the SoCon, and teams like Wofford, Citadel or Furman doesn't have the appeal to pull the average fan in the stadium.

Their answer is that the Mocs should move up to the Sun Belt or move to OVC, thus giving Mocs fans more appealing opponents to the Chattanooga fans.

I think the problem lies in the fact they are in Tennessee, and many of their fans (and the average local football fan the Mocs want to attract) make the weekly trip over to Knoxville - rather than come to Finley. The Mocs opponent will have little effect on that situation.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/college/story/2017/may/07/football-attendance-decline-may-lead-utc-look/426797/


Four words that render the rest as valuable (or less) than message board post.

[BisonFan02]

Yeah, that's it, the SEC. Why isn't that on the table? I mean they are good enough right?

NFC South....no way Chatty blows that lead against the Pats. :D

[JSUSoutherner]

NFC South....no way Chatty blows that lead against the Pats. :D
Can't blow leads you never have.

[UCMoc]

Four words that render the rest as valuable (or less) than message board post.

Yeah, you actually don't know what you are talking about there. Chattanooga has some of the best local coverage in the FCS. The reporter who covers us is fair and does his due diligence. "The Chattanooga newspaper thinks" this because it's what the AD has told them.

[ETSUfan1]

ETSU has always faced the same problem. The Big Orange is your issue. A move to another league does nothing to solve that. I think UTC can carve a nice niche in the market...they've proven they can in the last few years. I hope UTC stays.

[walliver]

App State was filling their stadium before they left FCS.
Georgia Southern attendance was down somewhat do to on-field performance, but was still near the top of FCS when they moved.
CCU has taken a leap of faith into the mouth of a volcano, and we'll see if they come back up.
FBS is for schools that have shown they can draw fans at FCS level. Fans who don't care about Wofford, Furman, and the Citadel will not care about South Alabama, UL-M, and Arkansas State. I doubt the belt will help UTC's problems. UTC might become desirable to the Sun Belt should Georgia State go to Conference USA (and C-USA is dumb enough to take them just for the market).

Few non-JSU teams in the OVC will bring big crowds.
I hope Chatty stays. If they leave, I could see the SoCon looking at Kennesaw State (as long as they seem committed to FCS) to maintain the current balance).

[clenz]

OVC will be their move after MUSU heads to the MVC/MVFC by 2020

[DoWe]

Yeah, you actually don't know what you are talking about there. Chattanooga has some of the best local coverage in the FCS. The reporter who covers us is fair and does his due diligence. "The Chattanooga newspaper thinks" this because it's what the AD has told them.
Thanks for the insight. I am willing to eat crow (as long as I can smother in Crystal hot sauce) when proved wrong. What are you willing to pony up?

[citdog]

OVC will be their move after MUSU heads to the MVC/MVFC by 2020

Chatt is going anywhere. They don't have a million dollars lying around to pay us.

[citdog]

Yeah, you actually don't know what you are talking about there. Chattanooga has some of the best local coverage in the FCS. The reporter who covers us is fair and does his due diligence. "The Chattanooga newspaper thinks" this because it's what the AD has told them.

You don't draw dick. Don't even play baseball and your basketball team is full of douches who will not stand for the national anthem. You get outdrawn in home attendance by 5 THOUSAND PEOPLE by a military school that you have 4 times more students than.

[ASU33]

To me it just made sense for Chattanooga to be in the OVC with the other Tennessee schools. I'm sure having in-state teams on the schedule would help attendance.

[UCMoc]

You don't draw dick. Don't even play baseball and your basketball team is full of douches who will not stand for the national anthem. You get outdrawn in home attendance by 5 THOUSAND PEOPLE by a military school that you have 4 times more students than.
I wasn't defending our attendance. It sucks. I was saying that the paper got their info from the Athletic Department and that they do a good job. Stand down. Go polish something.

[JSUSoutherner]

To me it just made sense for Chattanooga to be in the OVC with the other Tennessee schools. I'm sure having in-state teams on the schedule would help attendance.
Not much. We're only an extra hour and a half from UTC for our current TN members and the only one that brings a decent following is TSU.

[UCMoc]

Thanks for the insight. I am willing to eat crow (as long as I can smother in Crystal hot sauce) when proved wrong. What are you willing to pony up?

I'm so shocked that someone even posted that they were proved wrong that we can call it even. You are a true hero.

[FUBeAR]

If the Mocs desire to and have the opportunity to move to the Sludge Belt, there would also be the expense of starting 2 sports to meet the FBS minimum of 16 Varsity Sports. They have 6 Men's sports, which is the minimum, but they only have 8 Women's (if Track & Cross-Country count as 2 Sports, which I think they do) and that's the minimum for Women's Sports, but they need a Total of 16.

Meanwhile, their [current] SoCon Football-playing brethren currently sponsor...

Furman = 9 Men's / 9 Women's = 18
Mercer = 8 Men's / 10 Women's = 18
Wofford = 9 Men's / 9 Women's = 18
ETSU = 8 Men's / 9 Women's = 17
VMI = 10 Men's / 6 Women's = 16
-----------------------------------------------
Samford = 7 Men's / 8 Women's = 15
Chattanooga = 6 Men's / 8 Women's = 14
The Citadel = 8 Men's / 6 Women's = 14
WCU = 6 Men's / 8 Women's = 14

[Bucs2016]

Have they tried winning their conference more than twice to boost attendance????? No offense to UTC because my team is abysmal in facilities/attendance...but they seem to have only won it very recently. The teams who have won that conference a lot....App St, GSU, Marshall, didnt have attendance issues. The Citadel has won it a few times in the past. Wofford too. Furman obviously.

If the fans arent willing to show up to see the HOME team play...what makes anyone think they'll show for a new visiting team??? For almost all of UTCs SoCon history there were 5 or 6 better teams already showing up in the visitors locker room.

Attendance goes up with winning more and doing it for a long time. But being somewhat of a commuter school in a town with lots of other fun stuff to do doesnt help. Sun Belt??? If UTC fans werent showing up to watch the Mocs lose to App State and Ga Southern 10 years ago...why would they now?

[Bucs2016]

I shouldnt have ranted like that. Sorry UTC fans. Im just burned out from all the conference hopping going on in D1 these days. Its absurd.

[kdinva]

Not to nit-pick, but Indoor and Outdoor track counts as two sports....Cross country counts as "its own" competition. IE: VMI has 11 men's and 7 women's teams......etc,...etc....for the other schools.


If the Mocs desire to and have the opportunity to move to the Sludge Belt, there would also be the expense of starting 2 sports to meet the FBS minimum of 16 Varsity Sports. They have 6 Men's sports, which is the minimum, but they only have 8 Women's (if Track & Cross-Country count as 2 Sports, which I think they do) and that's the minimum for Women's Sports, but they need a Total of 16.

Meanwhile, their [current] SoCon Football-playing brethren currently sponsor...

Furman = 9 Men's / 9 Women's = 18
Mercer = 8 Men's / 10 Women's = 18
Wofford = 9 Men's / 9 Women's = 18
ETSU = 8 Men's / 9 Women's = 17
VMI = 10 Men's / 6 Women's = 16
-----------------------------------------------
Samford = 7 Men's / 8 Women's = 15
Chattanooga = 6 Men's / 8 Women's = 14
The Citadel = 8 Men's / 6 Women's = 14
WCU = 6 Men's / 8 Women's = 14

[Milktruck74]

This idea pops up every few years...The Mocs aren't going anywhere. OVC seems to get tossed around quite a bit.

[chattanoogamocs]

Have they tried winning their conference more than twice to boost attendance????? No offense to UTC because my team is abysmal in facilities/attendance...but they seem to have only won it very recently. The teams who have won that conference a lot....App St, GSU, Marshall, didnt have attendance issues. The Citadel has won it a few times in the past. Wofford too. Furman obviously.

If the fans arent willing to show up to see the HOME team play...what makes anyone think they'll show for a new visiting team??? For almost all of UTCs SoCon history there were 5 or 6 better teams already showing up in the visitors locker room.

Attendance goes up with winning more and doing it for a long time. But being somewhat of a commuter school in a town with lots of other fun stuff to do doesnt help. Sun Belt??? If UTC fans werent showing up to watch the Mocs lose to App State and Ga Southern 10 years ago...why would they now?

The error in your logic is...the biggest crowds UTC got was when they hosted App State and GSU...win or lose...(the only other teams to crack the top 10 attended games was Finley's first home game against Tennessee State back in the 90's and Jacksonville State 2 years ago).

App State and GSU are guaranteed 14-17,000 games.

[chattanoogamocs]

This idea pops up every few years...The Mocs aren't going anywhere. OVC seems to get tossed around quite a bit.

Actually Milktruck, this is legit (though the OVC was just thrown in, I seriously doubt that would happen). Sun Belt has been flirting/feeling out Chattanooga for years, actually for decades, even back to the Metro days and the answer has always been "no, we're not interested in moving up." And all those times previously, it was probably the smart, albeit conservative, move. But this time is different, Blackburn is seriously considering this and has been talking to larger donors to see if the support is there.

I think he looks at the opportunity to double "money game" paydays + get ASU and GSU back to Finley (8 of the top 10 highest attended games at Finley) + re-igniting a rivalry with MTSU (C-USA member, but back to an "equal footing" when it comes to perception) + the opportunity to getting smaller SEC and ACC schools to come to Finley.

For the record, I have been in favor of this since ASU/GSU moved up. I think the SoCon is great, I love the teams, but I also don't think we have much rivalry with any of them. Most of the other schools have amazing rivalries (Furman/Wofford, Furman/Citadel, Citadel/VMI), I am jealous that UTC has never had anything like that in last 20 years (Marshall was great back in the day, so was ETSU and maybe they would be again, but it hasn't really happened so far). These teams just don't energize the fan base at UTC. The perception (fair or not) in Chattanooga is that the league is mainly East Coast/Carolina's and Private.

And also for the record, I dogged on ASU and GSU for moving up to the Sun Belt. But both of their athletics departments are nothing but happy with the move up (booth schools giving is up substantially). I would assume their fans bases are pretty happy about it too.

[DoWe]

I'm so shocked that someone even posted that they were proved wrong that we can call it even. You are a true hero.
I wrote when proved wrong. I intended it to mean UTC needs to move to the OVC or the Sun Belt prior to me being proved wrong. Until then, I will take a more respectful approach to the Times Free Press regarding FCS. After all, Chatt did host a couple of D1-AA championships years ago.

[Mocs123]

I am not defending our attendence as a top 10 program in a metro area the size of Chattanooga should be drawing at least 15K per game, but it is what it is. Attendance was really down last year becauase our OOC schedule was a D2 (Shorter) and Presbyterian who isn't exactly a big draw. The Shorter game was supposed to be on a Thursday night when we pretty much had the day to ourselves, but UTK moved there game to Thursday too and they were hyped before the season started. The rest of our home games in September were at 2:00 so they were HOT (my wife and kids didn't go to them).

Going to the OVC is not going to help attendance (other than the JSU game). Like I have said before is anyone going to watch Western Illinois when they won't watch Western Carolina?

The Sun Belt does nothing for me either, unless there is movement in FBS and the P5 break away. I want to compete for National Championships and not the Poinsetta Bowl. The Sun Belt's travel is bad, and we just simply couldn't afford the move. We can barely fund programs at the FCS level.

[tigonian02]

Actually Milktruck, this is legit (though the OVC was just thrown in, I seriously doubt that would happen). Sun Belt has been flirting/feeling out Chattanooga for years, actually for decades, even back to the Metro days and the answer has always been "no, we're not interested in moving up." And all those times previously, it was probably the smart, albeit conservative, move. But this time is different, Blackburn is seriously considering this and has been talking to larger donors to see if the support is there.

I think he looks at the opportunity to double "money game" paydays + get ASU and GSU back to Finley (8 of the top 10 highest attended games at Finley) + re-igniting a rivalry with MTSU (C-USA member, but back to an "equal footing" when it comes to perception) + the opportunity to getting smaller SEC and ACC schools to come to Finley.

For the record, I have been in favor of this since ASU/GSU moved up. I think the SoCon is great, I love the teams, but I also don't think we have much rivalry with any of them. Most of the other schools have amazing rivalries (Furman/Wofford, Furman/Citadel, Citadel/VMI), I am jealous that UTC has never had anything like that in last 20 years (Marshall was great back in the day, so was ETSU and maybe they would be again, but it hasn't really happened so far). These teams just don't energize the fan base at UTC. The perception (fair or not) in Chattanooga is that the league is mainly East Coast/Carolina's and Private.

And also for the record, I dogged on ASU and GSU for moving up to the Sun Belt. But both of their athletics departments are nothing but happy with the move up (booth schools giving is up substantially). I would assume their fans bases are pretty happy about it too.

I never posted all too often given the amount of time that I browsed this board in GaSouthern's FCS days. Out of all the Socon teams not named App State and Furman, I liked UTC the most. If the Sunbelt does indeed look to expand again (not sure if they are...10 is a good football number and it guarantees us $1,000,000 every season just to field a team), I wouldn't be opposed to UTC coming in (pending your next HC can replicate/improve on the last guys progress). That would put us at 11 teams though and so we'd need a 12th (Perhaps JMU would reconsider this time...). On the plus side though, if we can get two quality teams that can continue to win OOC games and help the conference regularly end 3rd or better in the G5, like last year, that brings in even more money per school as a bonus.


I am not defending our attendence as a top 10 program in a metro area the size of Chattanooga should be drawing at least 15K per game, but it is what it is. Attendance was really down last year becauase our OOC schedule was a D2 (Shorter) and Presbyterian who isn't exactly a big draw. The Shorter game was supposed to be on a Thursday night when we pretty much had the day to ourselves, but UTK moved there game to Thursday too and they were hyped before the season started. The rest of our home games in September were at 2:00 so they were HOT (my wife and kids didn't go to them).

Going to the OVC is not going to help attendance (other than the JSU game). Like I have said before is anyone going to watch Western Illinois when they won't watch Western Carolina?

The Sun Belt does nothing for me either, unless there is movement in FBS and the P5 break away. I want to compete for National Championships and not the Poinsetta Bowl. The Sun Belt's travel is bad, and we just simply couldn't afford the move. We can barely fund programs at the FCS level.

Travel in the SunBelt isn't that bad, especially if we split into divisions. C-USA has it far worse with a bunch of teams that got a pay cut. The Sunbelt gets laughed at for not making much money, but no one thinks about the fact that pretty much EVERYONE in the current Sunbelt is getting paid more than they've ever made in the past (playoff money, G5 performance pot, higher paying money games, TV money (lol), NCAA tourney credits, etc). I think that if UTC really wanted to find the money to move, they could. That being said, you guys don't have baseball, which apparently is something that the Sunbelt likes...I'm not sure that if it came to a vote that anyone outside of GS, App State, and Coastal would vote yes. Going higher than 10 football teams splits our payout and so finding the justification to do so may be tough.

[chattanoogamocs]

I am not defending our attendence as a top 10 program in a metro area the size of Chattanooga should be drawing at least 15K per game, but it is what it is. Attendance was really down last year becauase our OOC schedule was a D2 (Shorter) and Presbyterian who isn't exactly a big draw. The Shorter game was supposed to be on a Thursday night when we pretty much had the day to ourselves, but UTK moved there game to Thursday too and they were hyped before the season started. The rest of our home games in September were at 2:00 so they were HOT (my wife and kids didn't go to them).

Going to the OVC is not going to help attendance (other than the JSU game). Like I have said before is anyone going to watch Western Illinois when they won't watch Western Carolina?

The Sun Belt does nothing for me either, unless there is movement in FBS and the P5 break away. I want to compete for National Championships and not the Poinsetta Bowl. The Sun Belt's travel is bad, and we just simply couldn't afford the move. We can barely fund programs at the FCS level.

The other reason attendance was off was due to the insistence of having a mostly 2pm start times...most Chattanooga fans HATE early start times (especially early in the season when it's still hot as hell).

(and, of course, what happened this year? voila! only two early start times, one in late October and one in November)

As for FCS playoffs vs Bowl Games. I think that is probably the only downside to a move up (I still see a lot of GSU/ASU fans that admit they miss the excitement of the playoffs).

[JaxSinfonian]

Going to the OVC is not going to help attendance (other than the JSU game). Like I have said before is anyone going to watch Western Illinois when they won't watch Western Carolina?

It's Eastern Illinois, but yeah, your point is spot-on. My takeaway from that TFP story from Sunday was: Your fans are complaining about early kickoffs, but you want to avoid later games for fans of other teams, and one of your proposed solutions to improve attendance is games against OVC teams, which don't even have fans of their own? Are you actually trying to convince Mocs fans to stay home? There are arguments for UTC to move to the OVC, but increasing the average football crowd size is not one of them.

This looks to me like some heavyweights simply want to move to the Sunbelt and are trying to paint it as the only acceptable option.

[Milktruck74]

That being said, you guys don't have baseball, which apparently is something that the Sunbelt likes...I'm not sure that if it came to a vote that anyone outside of GS, App State, and Coastal would vote yes. Going higher than 10 football teams splits our payout and so finding the justification to do so may be tough.

But our Club Baseball team won the National Championship last year, so it would not be a complete start from scratch...it is the women's teams to offset that we have to come up with funding for. Also, the School owns historic Engle Stadium, where they filmed the movie 42 and the Lookouts played for years.

That said I'd rather be in the SoCon than a move sideways...I just don't see the overall Sunbelt as an upward thing.

[Mocs123]

I will propose option #3: convince the SoCon to admit JSU which would be a nice regional rival for UTC and Samford. If you need 2, TTU would be a nice fit for JSU, UTC, and ETSU.

Not sure that you would ever convince the privates to let JSU in nor do I know if JSU would even be interested in the SoCon anymore.

Or option #4: leave it well enough alone and keep a home and home with JSU (good for both schools).

[SU DOG]

http://collegead.com/university-tennessee-chattanooga-29/

[GodHelpTheBears]

But our Club Baseball team won the National Championship last year, so it would not be a complete start from scratch...it is the women's teams to offset that we have to come up with funding for. Also, the School owns historic Engle Stadium, where they filmed the movie 42 and the Lookouts played for years.

That said I'd rather be in the SoCon than a move sideways...I just don't see the overall Sunbelt as an upward thing.

Your university leadership, fan base, etc. has to have a certain shared mindset to believe the Sun Belt is worth it. We've been linked to the Sun Belt for years, but we won't make that move because we don't value football enough to take such a huge financial risk, especially since there isn't a clear point man anywhere in our alumni listings or in the Springfield community to front most of the expense.

In fact, that longstanding rumor is one of my pet peeves. It shows lazy, reductive thinking on the part of the person repeating it. They see that we have a true "state" university name and 26,000 students and think we could easily afford the move, even though we get directional school-level funding, compete for high school students on cost, and produce an alumni base consisting mostly of lower pay professions, like teachers and nurses.

[ST_Lawson]

Your university leadership, fan base, etc. has to have a certain shared mindset to believe the Sun Belt is worth it. We've been linked to the Sun Belt for years, but we won't make that move because we don't value football enough to take such a huge financial risk, especially since there isn't a clear point man anywhere in our alumni listings or in the Springfield community to front most of the expense.

In fact, that longstanding rumor is one of my pet peeves. It shows lazy, reductive thinking on the part of the person repeating it. They see that we have a true "state" university name and 26,000 students and think we could easily afford the move, even though we get directional school-level funding, compete for high school students on cost, and produce an alumni base consisting mostly of lower pay professions, like teachers and nurses.

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but what about dropping football completely, moving to the Sun Belt, and going all-in on your other sports. You could probably compete with UALR and lock down pretty good records/rankings in most of the other sports.

EDIT - or, I guess you could do the same thing and just stay in the MVC

[GodHelpTheBears]

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but what about dropping football completely, moving to the Sun Belt, and going all-in on your other sports. You could probably compete with UALR and lock down pretty good records/rankings in most of the other sports.

EDIT - or, I guess you could do the same thing and just stay in the MVC

I'd be more amenable to that than you'd think. Then again, I'm young enough to have missed the last time the Bears were decent at football (late 80's), and I have strong family connections to Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas. I am not the majority, obviously.

[PaladinFan]

I am not defending our attendence as a top 10 program in a metro area the size of Chattanooga should be drawing at least 15K per game, but it is what it is. Attendance was really down last year becauase our OOC schedule was a D2 (Shorter) and Presbyterian who isn't exactly a big draw. The Shorter game was supposed to be on a Thursday night when we pretty much had the day to ourselves, but UTK moved there game to Thursday too and they were hyped before the season started. The rest of our home games in September were at 2:00 so they were HOT (my wife and kids didn't go to them).

Going to the OVC is not going to help attendance (other than the JSU game). Like I have said before is anyone going to watch Western Illinois when they won't watch Western Carolina?

The Sun Belt does nothing for me either, unless there is movement in FBS and the P5 break away. I want to compete for National Championships and not the Poinsetta Bowl. The Sun Belt's travel is bad, and we just simply couldn't afford the move. We can barely fund programs at the FCS level.

Some of this is just a UTC problem, not a SoCon problem. In 2005, when Furman was quite good, we averaged 11k a game for a school with an enrollment of about 2600. That included nearly 12k for a game against Elon, over 13k against Wofford, and over 10k against Gardner Webb - not exactly big schools with large traveling contingents.

So, poor attendance and small gates, in my view, is more of a fan base problem than a "we need bigger schools" problem. Other much smaller schools in this conference have managed better attendance than UTC in similar banner years without relying on bigger schools to prop up the attendance numbers.

[Smitty]

Some of this is just a UTC problem, not a SoCon problem. In 2005, when Furman was quite good, we averaged 11k a game for a school with an enrollment of about 2600. That included nearly 12k for a game against Elon, over 13k against Wofford, and over 10k against Gardner Webb - not exactly big schools with large traveling contingents.

So, poor attendance and small gates, in my view, is more of a fan base problem than a "we need bigger schools" problem. Other much smaller schools in this conference have managed better attendance than UTC in similar banner years without relying on bigger schools to prop up the attendance numbers.

Heck we still average about 10k until half time, even as bad as we are...

[Mocs123]

I agree it is a Chattanooga problem not a SoCon problem.

The "average" Chattanoogan that might come to a game would probably say, Carson-Newman, UTC, and MTSU are all "D2". I am not sure that you would bring lots of them to a game outside of the SEC.

We need to figure out how to get more people to games but I don't think we could lure them in with any opponent that would come play here. I would say it's due to the fact that we are in SEC country, and certainly that has something to do with it (15k or more Drive from Chattanooga to Knoxville when UTK plays), but JSU is smack dab in Tide and War Eagle country and they have fantastic crowds.

[PaladinFan]

I agree it is a Chattanooga problem not a SoCon problem.

The "average" Chattanoogan that might come to a game would probably say, Carson-Newman, UTC, and MTSU are all "D2". I am not sure that you would bring lots of them to a game outside of the SEC.

We need to figure out how to get more people to games but I don't think we could lure them in with any opponent that would come play here. I would say it's due to the fact that we are in SEC country, and certainly that has something to do with it (15k or more Drive from Chattanooga to Knoxville when UTK plays), but JSU is smack dab in Tide and War Eagle country and they have fantastic crowds.

It is difficult in this part of the country to convince someone who watches the SEC that FCS is meaningful football. The information gap of simply convincing people that the SoCon is, in fact, Division 1 football takes effort. I recently have had to do this with folks that actually attended two different SoCon schools.

A lot of it is cultural, I think. Someone posted on our forum that Clay Hendrix is having his players watch clips from Furman games where the team played in a full stadium. Its hard to imagine, I'm sure, for current players and students that there was a time when Furman would pull in 12-13k fans a game. You can almost hear individual conversations now during the contest.

UTC may have a bit of what I fear may happen to Furman. When the team is bad enough for long enough, you end up graduating a generation of students (now alums) who have very littler personal connection to the program. They are probably far less likely to travel back to campus and attend home games because their favorite memories of college do not include football.

[Mocs123]

I can promise that there are very few UTC grads between ~52 and ~27 with any positive football memories from college. Over that span we were one of the worst 1AA teams in the country. When I was there (98-02) the football team was considered a joke by the large majority of the student body.

Despite a very good run the past few years, student participation is still embarrassingly poor.

[walliver]

Of SoCon football teams, only VMI is not in SEC country. In the Sun Belt, only App State and Texas State (the presence of Texas A&M doesn't make Texas SEC country IMHO) are not in SEC Country. Clemson and Florida State attract the same type of rabid (annoying) fans.

The Citadel draws very well for it's size. Making attendance mandatory helps inflate numbers, but also creates a group of alumni who regularly attend games.
Wofford and Furman attendance numbers several times undergraduate enrollment. Playing on-campus makes it easy for students to walk to games. It also helps that many alumni relocate to the upstate when they graduate.
Mercer has done well but is a larger school.
Samford's attendance has always surprised me. With a total enrollment of 5471, they frequently draw crowds of 4000 or so ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Samford_Bulldogs_football_team ).
Western has decent numbers, but it is right about the same as its enrollment (10K)

Each school has it's own culture which affects attendance. Some can be fixed by marketing and promotion, others can't. Schools with off-campus stadia, high proportion of commuter students, or a lot of suitcase students who go home every weekend will always have attendance problems. Community members with no actual affiliation with the local schools generally choose to follow the nearest P5(SEC) team. This problem can be worse with private schools who can often be viewed as elitists.

Unfortunately, I suspect Chatty will just have to deal with an average attendance around 10K. Chatty has an enrollment of 10K, but only 3K live on campus ( https://www.utc.edu/planning-evaluation-institutional-research/pdfs/factbook/fact-summary-15-16.pdf ).

[The Cats]

If the Mocs desire to and have the opportunity to move to the Sludge Belt, there would also be the expense of starting 2 sports to meet the FBS minimum of 16 Varsity Sports. They have 6 Men's sports, which is the minimum, but they only have 8 Women's (if Track & Cross-Country count as 2 Sports, which I think they do) and that's the minimum for Women's Sports, but they need a Total of 16.

Meanwhile, their [current] SoCon Football-playing brethren currently sponsor...

Furman = 9 Men's / 9 Women's = 18
Mercer = 8 Men's / 10 Women's = 18
Wofford = 9 Men's / 9 Women's = 18
ETSU = 8 Men's / 9 Women's = 17
VMI = 10 Men's / 6 Women's = 16
-----------------------------------------------
Samford = 7 Men's / 8 Women's = 15
Chattanooga = 6 Men's / 8 Women's = 14
The Citadel = 8 Men's / 6 Women's = 14
WCU = 6 Men's / 8 Women's = 14



Track & Field count as 2 each if you have indoor and outdoor teams


I thought the minimum for D-1 is 16 teams period.

[FUBeAR]

Track & Field count as 2 each if you have indoor and outdoor teams


I thought the minimum for D-1 is 16 teams period.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D117.pdf - NCAA DIVISION I August 2016-17

"12.8.3.3 Track and Field and Cross Country. Cross country, indoor track and field, and outdoor track and field shall be considered separate sports. (Revised: 1/10/90, 7/31/14)"


"20.9.9 Football Bowl Subdivision Requirements. [FBS] An institution classified in the Football Bowl Subdivision shall meet the additional requirements listed below. (Revised: 12/15/06)20.9.9.1 Sports Sponsorship. [FBS] The institution shall sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaws 20.9.6 and 20.9.6.3, including a minimum of six sports involving all-male teams or mixed teams of males and females, and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate sports (of which a maximum of two emerging sports per Bylaw 20.02.4 may be used) based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaws 20.9.6 and 20.9.6.3 and involving all-female teams, subject to the waiver provision in Bylaw 20.9.6.2. (Revised: 1/11/94 effective 9/1/94, 4/25/02 effective 8/1/04)"

[Bucs2016]

Of SoCon football teams, only VMI is not in SEC country. In the Sun Belt, only App State and Texas State (the presence of Texas A&M doesn't make Texas SEC country IMHO) are not in SEC Country. Clemson and Florida State attract the same type of rabid (annoying) fans.

The Citadel draws very well for it's size. Making attendance mandatory helps inflate numbers, but also creates a group of alumni who regularly attend games.
Wofford and Furman attendance numbers several times undergraduate enrollment. Playing on-campus makes it easy for students to walk to games. It also helps that many alumni relocate to the upstate when they graduate.
Mercer has done well but is a larger school.
Samford's attendance has always surprised me. With a total enrollment of 5471, they frequently draw crowds of 4000 or so ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Samford_Bulldogs_football_team ).
Western has decent numbers, but it is right about the same as its enrollment (10K)

Each school has it's own culture which affects attendance. Some can be fixed by marketing and promotion, others can't. Schools with off-campus stadia, high proportion of commuter students, or a lot of suitcase students who go home every weekend will always have attendance problems. Community members with no actual affiliation with the local schools generally choose to follow the nearest P5(SEC) team. This problem can be worse with private schools who can often be viewed as elitists.

Unfortunately, I suspect Chatty will just have to deal with an average attendance around 10K. Chatty has an enrollment of 10K, but only 3K live on campus ( https://www.utc.edu/planning-evaluation-institutional-research/pdfs/factbook/fact-summary-15-16.pdf ).

FCS attendance is so tricky. For one, a lot of FCS teams in the South are private, religious, military or satellite schools. They arent flagship state universities like NDSU, Montana, Delaware, etc. So, for example, there are no SEC teams in those states. They are the draw.

Then you have teams in decent size metro areas like Chattanooga, Greenville/Sptbg, Charleston, etc. Theres a lot of stuff to do on weekends.

Some FCS teams just have to accept they're never gonna draw like Montana or App State. We know our ceiling is 7 or 8K and thats only if we host a big in state school like Coastal or Citadel.

I suspect Chattanooga might be the same. Being a UT branch school already, many students may identify as Vols fans #1. Then its a fun outdoor orietned city in the mountains and in the fall thats peak mountain hike season for the leaves. Add being an hour from Atlanta and having pro teams close....hard to get a fan base going.

But...win the SoCon 10 times in the next 20 years and that'll change quick I bet.

[CockyGeek]

Moving to the OVC or Sunbelt would do nothing. That's Big Orange country. The amateur soccer team brings in more fans most of the time.

The last time JSU played there, there were more JSU fans in attendance.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[JSUSoutherner]

but JSU is smack dab in Tide and War Eagle country and they have fantastic crowds.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/U1XhGr8CWqvVC/giphy.gif

[chattownmocs]

Much ado about nothing. Alot of programs consider a lot of things. The fact that the OVC is seen as legit by these writers tells me the while article is a sham.

[ElCid]

Of SoCon football teams, only VMI is not in SEC country. In the Sun Belt, only App State and Texas State (the presence of Texas A&M doesn't make Texas SEC country IMHO) are not in SEC Country. Clemson and Florida State attract the same type of rabid (annoying) fans.

The Citadel draws very well for it's size. Making attendance mandatory helps inflate numbers, but also creates a group of alumni who regularly attend games.
Wofford and Furman attendance numbers several times undergraduate enrollment. Playing on-campus makes it easy for students to walk to games. It also helps that many alumni relocate to the upstate when they graduate.
Mercer has done well but is a larger school.
Samford's attendance has always surprised me. With a total enrollment of 5471, they frequently draw crowds of 4000 or so ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Samford_Bulldogs_football_team ).
Western has decent numbers, but it is right about the same as its enrollment (10K)

Each school has it's own culture which affects attendance. Some can be fixed by marketing and promotion, others can't. Schools with off-campus stadia, high proportion of commuter students, or a lot of suitcase students who go home every weekend will always have attendance problems. Community members with no actual affiliation with the local schools generally choose to follow the nearest P5(SEC) team. This problem can be worse with private schools who can often be viewed as elitists.

Unfortunately, I suspect Chatty will just have to deal with an average attendance around 10K. Chatty has an enrollment of 10K, but only 3K live on campus ( https://www.utc.edu/planning-evaluation-institutional-research/pdfs/factbook/fact-summary-15-16.pdf ).

Real good run down! I really thought your point about every school having a separate culture was spot on. Who knows what really goes into building a good fan base. It is easy to say winning helps, and that never hurts obviously, but like you said, each school has its own environment to operate in. UTC definitely has some hills to climb in regard to its student body. They need to address it specifically considering their challenges. I have seen schools run marketing/publicity campaigns and they are all too often cookie cutter endeavors and do not speak specifically to the issues at hand.

I think one problem that The Citadel has faced over the years is a separation between the Corps and the team. Cadets can be unforgiving they feel that some cadet athletes skate in regard to cadet life. That issue was present a little when I was there. There was not necessarily hostility, but there was perception, correctly or incorrectly, that some athletes were given passes regarding cadet life. That breeds bad feelings for the long term. And even though football games are mandatory and it helps attendance, it also turns some grads off. I know local graduates, in SC, who have never been to another game, except maybe homecoming every 5 years and even then they march in and then right back to their class party and the bar. If home games were not mandatory, I suspect that it would be difficult to compete with parties, the beach, and girls. Besides VMI, the other schools obviously face issues of student priorities. But I will say we have one heck of a fan base in any event. Not sure there is another school out their who boasts attendance figure, as compared to the number of grads, as we do.

In regard to competing against FBS, I do not think that there is a sufficient effort to deconflict game times, home and aways, etc. I am sure I do not know the half of it when it comes to trying to deconflict, and H/A schedules are pretty firm in conference, but that should be done whenever a school is able to. I know it happens already, but I think even more creativity is needed. That would help.

I am not sure that internet/TV access has as big an impact as many think. It definitely does have some impact, but if I can go to a game, I will go to a game in person. If I can't go, then it is nice to have internet options, but it does not usually impact my attendance decision. And I have been to about 90% of the home game in the last 10 years. But I can see that it may for some. I just don't think it is as big as some may think. Maybe it is just me.

In regard to opponents, I think each school needs to concentrate on people coming to see their team. Sure, having a good opponent helps boost attendance, maybe, but concentrating on people wanting to see THEIR team is a much better strategy and will pay off regardless of who comes to town. How that is done is the hard part obviously.

[chattanoogamocs]

Of SoCon football teams, only VMI is not in SEC country. In the Sun Belt, only App State and Texas State (the presence of Texas A&M doesn't make Texas SEC country IMHO) are not in SEC Country. Clemson and Florida State attract the same type of rabid (annoying) fans.

The Citadel draws very well for it's size. Making attendance mandatory helps inflate numbers, but also creates a group of alumni who regularly attend games.
Wofford and Furman attendance numbers several times undergraduate enrollment. Playing on-campus makes it easy for students to walk to games. It also helps that many alumni relocate to the upstate when they graduate.
Mercer has done well but is a larger school.
Samford's attendance has always surprised me. With a total enrollment of 5471, they frequently draw crowds of 4000 or so ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Samford_Bulldogs_football_team ).
Western has decent numbers, but it is right about the same as its enrollment (10K)

Each school has it's own culture which affects attendance. Some can be fixed by marketing and promotion, others can't. Schools with off-campus stadia, high proportion of commuter students, or a lot of suitcase students who go home every weekend will always have attendance problems. Community members with no actual affiliation with the local schools generally choose to follow the nearest P5(SEC) team. This problem can be worse with private schools who can often be viewed as elitists.

Unfortunately, I suspect Chatty will just have to deal with an average attendance around 10K. Chatty has an enrollment of 10K, but only 3K live on campus ( https://www.utc.edu/planning-evaluation-institutional-research/pdfs/factbook/fact-summary-15-16.pdf ).

The on-campus housing is a little misleading.

1) they have almost finished a 600 bed highrise.
2) with all the red tape to get funding, UTC has been more open to partnering with private companies to build student housing which are technically off campus (so they don't count in the stats you linked). There are at least 4 of them within 2 blocks of campus, the largest of which is literally across the street from south edge of campus, the 700 room Douglas Heights building.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2014/sep/18/seven-stories-of-prosperity-student-housing-could/267392/

When the new on-campus building opens in the fall, the bed count will be close to 5,000 (and that doesn't even include the proposed 2nd stage of Douglas Heights which would bring that development up to 1,500).

[chattanoogamocs]

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D117.pdf - NCAA DIVISION I August 2016-17

"12.8.3.3 Track and Field and Cross Country. Cross country, indoor track and field, and outdoor track and field shall be considered separate sports. (Revised: 1/10/90, 7/31/14)"


"20.9.9 Football Bowl Subdivision Requirements. [FBS] An institution classified in the Football Bowl Subdivision shall meet the additional requirements listed below. (Revised: 12/15/06)20.9.9.1 Sports Sponsorship. [FBS] The institution shall sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaws 20.9.6 and 20.9.6.3, including a minimum of six sports involving all-male teams or mixed teams of males and females, and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate sports (of which a maximum of two emerging sports per Bylaw 20.02.4 may be used) based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaws 20.9.6 and 20.9.6.3 and involving all-female teams, subject to the waiver provision in Bylaw 20.9.6.2. (Revised: 1/11/94 effective 9/1/94, 4/25/02 effective 8/1/04)"

Ironically, when UTC cut men's track and field, the only thing that saved cross country was because it would drop the Mocs down to 5 men's sports.

Safest bet (no matter what happens with SoCon/SBC), UTC is probably adding beach volleyball in the next year or two.

[chattanoogamocs]

Some of this is just a UTC problem, not a SoCon problem. In 2005, when Furman was quite good, we averaged 11k a game for a school with an enrollment of about 2600. That included nearly 12k for a game against Elon, over 13k against Wofford, and over 10k against Gardner Webb - not exactly big schools with large traveling contingents.

So, poor attendance and small gates, in my view, is more of a fan base problem than a "we need bigger schools" problem. Other much smaller schools in this conference have managed better attendance than UTC in similar banner years without relying on bigger schools to prop up the attendance numbers.

It is hard to compare.

1) there is a major difference between an elite private school like Furman that spend a LOT of time cultivating it alumni support. I think have under 3,000 is actually an advantage in some ways. You have more family, more community. People really know each other on a campus that size, they want to come back. In that respect I have always been envious of schools like Furman, Wofford, and the Citadel.

2) whether the away team travels or not, Furman has GREAT grudge rivalries that make the home fans want to show up. You guys are blessed with proximity. Chattanooga has always been the western front of the conference.

[chattanoogamocs]

Here is an interesting, out of season, exercise for the board members.

Give an honest, top to bottom ranking, of the 8 other SoCon football.

1 is which team you get most excited to play and 8 is the least excited to play.

[FUBeAR]

Here is an interesting, out of season, exercise for the board members.

Give an honest, top to bottom ranking, of the 8 other SoCon football.

1 is which team you get most excited to play and 8 is the least excited to play.

As a fan of 2 SoCon Teams, I have to look at this exercise from each perspective...

As an FU Fan
1) El Cid - This will never change
2) Mercer - Lots of ties
3) Woffy - Proximity / History
4) WCU - History - like 80's music/movies
5) Chatt - History / Competitiveness
6) Sammy - Lack of History
7) VMI - Lack of Competitiveness
8) ETSU - Can't forgive that they played in the mini-dome / current competitiveness

As a Mercer Fan
1) Furman - Lots of ties
2) El Cid - 3 years / 3 losses / by 5 total points / ARRGGGHHHH!!!
3) Chatt - Competitiveness (2016 1st half excluded)
4) WCU - Competitiveness / Teams don't seem to like each other
5) Woffy - only 1st year rout and 2 very hard-hitting competitive games
6) Sammy - may move up - just don't like watching their brand of football
7) VMI - lack of history / distance
8) ETSU - other Mercer fans may disagree from A-Sun days in other sports; just not feelin' this game so much...yet

[GAD]

Without students, alums, and locals being interested in UTC games what conference they are in won't matter

[GAD]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/U1XhGr8CWqvVC/giphy.gif


xthumbsupxxthumbsupxGot to give credit to Gamecock fans Great Job!

[ElCid]

Here is an interesting, out of season, exercise for the board members.

Give an honest, top to bottom ranking, of the 8 other SoCon football.

1 is which team you get most excited to play and 8 is the least excited to play.


I really like all SOCON games but if i had to pick here is my list. This is definitely different than what it was when I was a cadet.

1) Furman - sucks
2) Wofford - They have moved up a lot since my days on the Ashley
3) VMI - a great rivalry
4) Chatty - again, they have moved up over the years
5) Samford - just because they are fairly good
6) Mercer - it's good to have a bi-itch (that was just for FUBear, and just kidding, it is a good series so far and not just because we won, every timexthumbsupx)
7) WCU - not a lot hate or super competitiveness.
8) ETSU - just because they have not been around lately

[Bucs2016]

Real good run down! I really thought your point about every school having a separate culture was spot on. Who knows what really goes into building a good fan base. It is easy to say winning helps, and that never hurts obviously, but like you said, each school has its own environment to operate in. UTC definitely has some hills to climb in regard to its student body. They need to address it specifically considering their challenges. I have seen schools run marketing/publicity campaigns and they are all too often cookie cutter endeavors and do not speak specifically to the issues at hand.

I think one problem that The Citadel has faced over the years is a separation between the Corps and the team. Cadets can be unforgiving they feel that some cadet athletes skate in regard to cadet life. That issue was present a little when I was there. There was not necessarily hostility, but there was perception, correctly or incorrectly, that some athletes were given passes regarding cadet life. That breeds bad feelings for the long term. And even though football games are mandatory and it helps attendance, it also turns some grads off. I know local graduates, in SC, who have never been to another game, except maybe homecoming every 5 years and even then they march in and then right back to their class party and the bar. If home games were not mandatory, I suspect that it would be difficult to compete with parties, the beach, and girls. Besides VMI, the other schools obviously face issues of student priorities. But I will say we have one heck of a fan base in any event. Not sure there is another school out their who boasts attendance figure, as compared to the number of grads, as we do.

In regard to competing against FBS, I do not think that there is a sufficient effort to deconflict game times, home and aways, etc. I am sure I do not know the half of it when it comes to trying to deconflict, and H/A schedules are pretty firm in conference, but that should be done whenever a school is able to. I know it happens already, but I think even more creativity is needed. That would help.

I am not sure that internet/TV access has as big an impact as many think. It definitely does have some impact, but if I can go to a game, I will go to a game in person. If I can't go, then it is nice to have internet options, but it does not usually impact my attendance decision. And I have been to about 90% of the home game in the last 10 years. But I can see that it may for some. I just don't think it is as big as some may think. Maybe it is just me.

In regard to opponents, I think each school needs to concentrate on people coming to see their team. Sure, having a good opponent helps boost attendance, maybe, but concentrating on people wanting to see THEIR team is a much better strategy and will pay off regardless of who comes to town. How that is done is the hard part obviously.

Haha yes especially in Charleston its hard to draw while competing with downtown bars, the beach, the girls, etc. We've obviously had an even harder time with it. I imagine thats probably one factor into why the College of Charleston doesnt start football. They'd have an even harder time than The Citadel to draw fans in this city.

Ive heard that about the Corp vs athletes. Not sure about other sports...but I wonder if the cadets realize just how brutal the life of a D1 college football player can be. I remember the days being filled with at least 6 to 8 hours of lifting, running, film study, rehab, practice, study hall...on top of coaches who yell and demand and all that. My first 2 years I lost track of how many days I thought "this is it I can't do this anymore" but you gut it out for the day, sleep and get through one more. Not saying the cadets dont go through hell because they do. But at least for football i bet they'd be surprised just how rough that life is. I had teammates go into every branch of the military after college and they all said the 5 weeks of football camp was as hard or harder than boot camp. So maybe the golf or soccer or hoops team gets some slack. But D1 college football is no joke, its a rough grueling life, especially late July through November.

[ElCid]

Haha yes especially in Charleston its hard to draw while competing with downtown bars, the beach, the girls, etc. We've obviously had an even harder time with it. I imagine thats probably one factor into why the College of Charleston doesnt start football. They'd have an even harder time than The Citadel to draw fans in this city.

Ive heard that about the Corp vs athletes. Not sure about other sports...but I wonder if the cadets realize just how brutal the life of a D1 college football player can be. I remember the days being filled with at least 6 to 8 hours of lifting, running, film study, rehab, practice, study hall...on top of coaches who yell and demand and all that. My first 2 years I lost track of how many days I thought "this is it I can't do this anymore" but you gut it out for the day, sleep and get through one more. Not saying the cadets dont go through hell because they do. But at least for football i bet they'd be surprised just how rough that life is. I had teammates go into every branch of the military after college and they all said the 5 weeks of football camp was as hard or harder than boot camp. So maybe the golf or soccer or hoops team gets some slack. But D1 college football is no joke, its a rough grueling life, especially late July through November.

No I absolutely agree. I am just saying what the perception is. Easy to get blinders in one's own little world. Hard is relative. If some cadet sees or thinks that someone does not have to shine brass or shoes just like them, or they got a test delayed, no argument will sway them. Many of them have busy activities, but get no slack. It was probably most visible with football, but really applies to all. It changes year to year, but it always lurks in the background. It is more of a disconnect than a serious issue.

[Bucs2016]

No I absolutely agree. I am just saying what the perception is. Easy to get blinders in one's own little world. Hard is relative. If some cadet sees or thinks that someone does not have to shine brass or shoes just like them, or they got a test delayed, no argument with sway them. Many of them have busy activities, but get no slack. It was probably most visible with football, but really applies to all. It changes year to year, but it always lurks in the background. It is more of a disconnect than a serious issue.

Yep. Especially 18-22 year olds. I for one believe one of the absolute best educations a kid can get is either at a military college or being in a D1 sports program, especially football. The life lessons of discipline, accountability, perseverance, teamwork, etc etc prepare them SO MUCH more than 95% of classes that are taken at most colleges. Ive done pretty well in life and can honestly say I tap into life lessons learned on the football team 10x more often than any academic work in a classroom. Once you land a job they basically remake you and train you anyway. College degree just filters applicants.

[walliver]

Here is an interesting, out of season, exercise for the board members.

Give an honest, top to bottom ranking, of the 8 other SoCon football.

1 is which team you get most excited to play and 8 is the least excited to play.

Big SoCon games for me:


The Citadel – not our oldest series, but the longest continuous game. For 20 years, in the NAIA/D2 era this was a body bag money game. It was usually scheduled mid-season and always seemed to correlate with fall academic break, better know as “Charleston Weekend”
Furman – FU cancelled our home-and-home series in the mid 70’s and we only played twice, once to celebrate the centennial anniversary of Wofford’s 5-1 win in 1889, and didn’t restart a regular series until we moved to I-AA. Unfortunately we rarely play well in Greenville. Most Wofford fans would put them at number 1
Chattanooga – a horrible team for most of our stay in the SoCon, although we inexplicably lost a few at Chatty. It’s usually an important game now, but there is little history. And to be perfectly honest, Chattown has poisoned the waters, and I have to remember that Chattanooga fans are real people.
Samford – tends to be a hard-fought game just about every year.
Mercer – no history (but nobody really has history with mercer, other than Reinhardt) but usually a competitive game
Western Carolina – a team we frequently played in the 60’s and 70’s, but they’ve been very bad for most of our stay in the SoCon.
ETSU – no real success during the times we’ve played them.
VMI – have never been competitive during our time in the league. Unfortunately, the one loss in the SoCon series, denied us a SoCon championship and berth in the playoffs.

There is a big gap between 2 and 3.
Prior to the recent shakeup, I would have put the top 3 as:


FU
GSU
ASU

[UCMoc]

Big SoCon games for me:Chattanooga – a horrible team for most of our stay in the SoCon, although we inexplicably lost a few at Chatty. It’s usually an important game now, but there is little history. And to be perfectly honest, Chattown has poisoned the waters, and I have to remember that Chattanooga fans are real people.




Same. I wake up every morning and say, "I am not an A$$hole."

[chattanoogamocs]

The amateur soccer team brings in more fans most of the time.

The last time JSU played there, there were more JSU fans in attendance.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

Wrong (and I work full time for CFC, except for the last game or two of the playoffs the last two years, CFC never has more than about 3,000-5,000 a game)

...and Wrong (comically wrong).
http://www.mocsfootballcamp.com/images/stadiumlarge_A.jpg

[kdinva]

Big SoCon games for me

VMI – have never been competitive during our time in the league. Unfortunately, the one loss in the SoCon series, denied us a SoCon championship and berth in the playoffs.


not quite 100% true.......just last year it was a 3-0 game after 52 minutes....but the others Woffy put in its bench the final 10 or so minutes.....

[UNIFanSince1983]

Wrong (and I work full time for CFC, except for the last game or two of the playoffs the last two years, CFC never has more than about 3,000-5,000 a game)

...and Wrong (comically wrong).
http://www.mocsfootballcamp.com/images/stadiumlarge_A.jpg

I am not sure that picture really proves him comically wrong. There are an enormous amount of empty seats and the whole one side is red plus red sprinkled in the other side.

[The Cats]

Here is an interesting, out of season, exercise for the board members.

Give an honest, top to bottom ranking, of the 8 other SoCon football.

1 is which team you get most excited to play and 8 is the least excited to play.


since Appy State departed..... I don't think ANY current SoCon team really excites Catamount fans -

8 - (in no particular order) The Citadel, Furman, Samford, Chattanooga, Mercer, ETSU, VMI, Wofford (maybe a couple of those are 7s).

.......of course, we want to win each game but it's not the same without the Hillbillies.

[Bucs2016]

since Appy State departed..... I don't think ANY current SoCon team really excites Catamount fans -

8 - (in no particular order) The Citadel, Furman, Samford, Chattanooga, Mercer, ETSU, VMI, Wofford (maybe a couple of those are 7s).

.......of course, we want to win each game but it's not the same without the Hillbillies.

I had never seen yalls stadium before the last couple years I had a chance to get by there once and saw some pics. And man...in the fall when the leaves have changed...its quite a beautiful site for an FCS game!

[ElCid]

I had never seen yalls stadium before the last couple years I had a chance to get by there once and saw some pics. And man...in the fall when the leaves have changed...its quite a beautiful site for an FCS game!

It really is a nice setting and they are good hosts. It is about 50 miles from my house and is easy to get to every couple years. VMI is a nice setting as well. Been there a bunch.

[Bucs2016]

It really is a nice setting and they are good hosts. It is about 50 miles from my house and is easy to get to every couple years. VMI is a nice setting as well. Been there a bunch.

I love football in the mountains in the fall. We played at VMI in my senior year. It was a great environment. Pretty town.

[The Cats]

I had never seen yalls stadium before the last couple years I had a chance to get by there once and saw some pics. And man...in the fall when the leaves have changed...its quite a beautiful site for an FCS game!

Thanks. We think we have one of the best atmospheres in the SoCon for football. Outstanding scenery, great tailgating, just all around good folks.

Just wish we had a rival.

Furman could be a possibility (but they already have their own rivals), ETSU would be good, but I expect they would look to Chattanooga first. There does seem to be a dislike between Western fans and Mercer, maybe something could develop.

[youcanbankit]

Actually Milktruck, this is legit (though the OVC was just thrown in, I seriously doubt that would happen). Sun Belt has been flirting/feeling out Chattanooga for years, actually for decades, even back to the Metro days and the answer has always been "no, we're not interested in moving up." And all those times previously, it was probably the smart, albeit conservative, move. But this time is different, Blackburn is seriously considering this and has been talking to larger donors to see if the support is there.

I think he looks at the opportunity to double "money game" paydays + get ASU and GSU back to Finley (8 of the top 10 highest attended games at Finley) + re-igniting a rivalry with MTSU (C-USA member, but back to an "equal footing" when it comes to perception) + the opportunity to getting smaller SEC and ACC schools to come to Finley.

For the record, I have been in favor of this since ASU/GSU moved up. I think the SoCon is great, I love the teams, but I also don't think we have much rivalry with any of them. Most of the other schools have amazing rivalries (Furman/Wofford, Furman/Citadel, Citadel/VMI), I am jealous that UTC has never had anything like that in last 20 years (Marshall was great back in the day, so was ETSU and maybe they would be again, but it hasn't really happened so far). These teams just don't energize the fan base at UTC. The perception (fair or not) in Chattanooga is that the league is mainly East Coast/Carolina's and Private.

And also for the record, I dogged on ASU and GSU for moving up to the Sun Belt. But both of their athletics departments are nothing but happy with the move up (booth schools giving is up substantially). I would assume their fans bases are pretty happy about it too.


As they say in Tennessee, "You better get while the "gettins" good". After a couple more seasons in the SoCon, no one may not want to entertain the idea. The SoCon is rising. I suggest they go to the colonial, like coach....... like university. Then they can match wits with Ex-Coach Huesman.

[ElCid]

I love football in the mountains in the fall. We played at VMI in my senior year. It was a great environment. Pretty town.

I am actually in a real nice spot to go to a bunch of game. Wofford, Furman, and WCU are all very close, around 50-60 miles or less. ETSU is a bit further at 100 miles. Chatty is just hard due to the mountains in-between with no direct road. Mercer and Charleston are about 4-5 hours. Samford and VMI are the furthest. Never been to Samford. Luckily my Mother in Law is in Charleston and my Father is near VMI so we like to make those road trips with a dual purpose.

[tigonian02]

I had never seen yalls stadium before the last couple years I had a chance to get by there once and saw some pics. And man...in the fall when the leaves have changed...its quite a beautiful site for an FCS game! The colors start to match the bloodbath on the field!

FIFY. But all jokes aside, I went to one GaSouthern game up there... and for a brief second I wished that GaSouthern's campus was nestled in all that mountainous terrain that WCU has. It was a nice site.

[citdog]

FIFY. But all jokes aside, I went to one GaSouthern game up there... and for a brief second I wished that GaSouthern's campus was nestled in all that mountainous terrain that WCU has. It was a nice site.

I pissed in eagle creek. It improved the smell.

[youcanbankit]

I pissed in eagle creek. It improved the smell.

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EoAHdwGBvU

[tigonian02]

I pissed in eagle creek. It improved the smell.

After your last showing in Statesboro, I forgot you had a team. I'm sure a lot of piss flows thru Eagle Creek annually. We tend to bring out the best of other teams bitter fans. It's good you still find time to make it down to Statesboro.

[DoWe]

since Appy State departed..... I don't think ANY current SoCon team really excites Catamount fans -

8 - (in no particular order) The Citadel, Furman, Samford, Chattanooga, Mercer, ETSU, VMI, Wofford (maybe a couple of those are 7s).

.......of course, we want to win each game but it's not the same without the Hillbillies.
Pretty sure you folks lost you rivalry status with appy in football. But, appy does pretty much suck in other sports.

[chattownmocs]

I am not sure that picture really proves him comically wrong. There are an enormous amount of empty seats and the whole one side is red plus red sprinkled in the other side.

You need to get your eyes checked. There is easily 3 × as much blue