Murray State

[Model Citizen]

Seems like the school is moving to the Missouri Valley Conference. If that happens, where does their football go?

MVFC? How many schools would be in that conference, adding Murray and North Dakota?

Pioneer? I've heard that Murray's football team can't afford 63 equivalencies. But can they walk away from the FBS money games they have lined up?

OVC- football only? Would that even be possible?

[WestCoastAggie]

We are?

http://replygif.net/i/1408.gif

[Laker]

Seems like the school is moving to the Missouri Valley Conference. If that happens, where does their football go?

MVFC? How many schools would be in that conference, adding Murray and North Dakota?

Pioneer? I've heard that Murray's football team can't afford 63 equivalencies. But can they walk away from the FBS money games they have lined up?

OVC- football only? Would that even be possible?

Well, once UND joins in 2020 they will have 11 teams. Is Murray State serious about making it a dozen?

[BisonTru]

I doubt Clenzy will like this but it could work out nicely.

West Division
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
WIU
UNI

East Division
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
MSUb
MSUr
YSU

Play everyone in your division every year. Play half the teams in the other division every year alternating.

[BisonFan02]

I doubt Clenzy will like this but it could work out nicely.

West Division
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
WIU
UNI

East Division
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
MSUb
MSUr
YSU

Play everyone in your division every year. Play half the teams in the other division every year alternating.

Yippie......happy happy, joy joy......not.

[POD Knows]

I doubt Clenzy will like this but it could work out nicely.

West Division
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
WIU
UNI

East Division
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
MSUb
MSUr
YSU

Play everyone in your division every year. Play half the teams in the other division every year alternating.

God, what a pile of **** that east division would be.

[BisonTru]

God, what a pile of **** that east division would be.

I'm not nearly afraid of this setup as most. The West IMO is going to cannibalize it's self for recruits which will create a couple dominant teams and a couple garbage teams, IMO. Or it will be pretty even which will yield no dominant teams nationally at least.

[clenz]

Yippie......happy happy, joy joy......not.
Again, UND caused that from the start by joining. That divide was going to happen. The only thing Murray does, and it actually makes it easier for UNI fans to accept, is take out the possibility that UNI is "allowed east". It takes the tease out of it. Now we know we are F-ed so when it happens it's already accepted.


About the only way around it is to go MVC/Summit but that still doesn't work because there is only 5 Summit football programs. YSU is the only one that isn't Summit/MVC, but putting YSU (the extreme east edge) with the Summit schools (the extreme west edge) isn't going to happen.

ISUr
ISUb
MOSU
MUSU
SIU
UNI

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
WIU
YSU

The best way to make that work is to shift YSU to the MVC side and either UNI or MSU to the Summit side - which gets us right back to where we were with the directional split mostly, and I'm assuming the Summit teams would rather have MSU than UNI.


There isn't a "good" way to split it. It's Illinois schools (and Ohio), Dakota schools and then 1 Iowa school in the middle and 1 SW Missouri school.

While travel costs may not be an issue for NDSU, SDSU, UNI and ISUr, the reality is this is still FCS football and it's large about saving costs wherever possible. UND left a conference, largely over travel. I can't imagine trips to Youngstown, Murray and Terra Haute in the same season are high on their list of things to accomplish. WIU is central enough that going either way isn't an issue but I'm guessing they'd like to avoid 2 or 3 Dakota road trips PLUS a MSU/YSU trip in the same year if possible.

It, unfortunately is what it is I guess.

The MVC schools allowed UND in to help stabilize the Summit. The Summit schools better/have no choice but to do the same for the MVC.

Basically, this is all UND's fautl.

[Laker]

Happening Hoops‏ @happeninghoops (https://twitter.com/happeninghoops)Following

More




MVC appears to be visiting Murray State on Tuesday and Valparaiso on Wednesday.

[TheKingpin28]

I posted this earlier but BF02 one worded me on it, but I think it could work, and still appease our overlords at UNI.



If Murray State were to join both conferences, keyword is if, that whole 3 pod idea for the conference would not be horrible. All SOS positions based off of Sagarin including ALL D1 Teams in () and Massey Ratings in []

Dakotas: Composite of (377) [49]
NDSU (44) [2]
SDSU (82) [5]
UND (115) [20]
USD (136) [22]

Central: Composite of (538) [103]
UNI (95) [10]
ISUr (110) [17]
SIU (148) [30]
Missery State (185) [46]

East: Composite of (575) [121]
YSU (67) [3]
WIU (135) [18]
ISUb (174) [33]
Murray State (199) [67]

Yes, I realize Western is more west than ISUr, but UNI would demand to have them in the pod. Looking at the ranks it is solid for 2 of the 3 pods, however, as usual the XDSUs will end up getting bent in half. So what if we moved Missery State into a new pod called the "west" shifted Murray State into the "central" as well as USeD and moved SIU into the "east?


West: Composite of (426) [73]
NDSU (44) [2]
SDSU (82) [5]
UND (115) [20]
Missery State (185) [46]

Central: Composite of (540) [126]
UNI (95) [10]
ISUr (110) [17]
USD (136) [22]
Murray State (199) [67]

East: Composite of (524) [84]
YSU (67) [3]
WIU (135) [18]
SIU (148) [30]
ISUb (174) [33]

Well we got closer to parity, however, keeping the XDSUs together still hurts the west. SO, what if we radicalize the pods to create parity? We will keep 1 traveling partner with each school to ensure that 1 rivalry will remain so that schools will still bitch about traveling, but rivalries just do not disappear.

West: Composite of (480) [90]
NDSU (44) [2]
UND (115) [20]
USD (136) [22]
Missery State (185) [46]

Central: Composite of (486) [99]
SDSU (82) [5]
UNI (95) [10]
ISUr (110) [17]
Murray State (199) [67]

East: Composite of (524) [84]
YSU (67) [3]
WIU (135) [18]
SIU (148) [30]
ISUb (174) [33]

This would be as close to parity as parity comes. The main problem is, based off of last season 2 pods have dumpster fires of Football schools, so to make up for it, the East has to take teams #10 and #9 to make up for the #11 and #12. So based off of this the "West" gets the #1, 7, 8, 11. The "Central" gets the #3, 4, 5, 12. The "East" gets the #2, 6, 9, 10. This would, in theory, create ideal parity in the league and still maintain rivalries.

Again, all of this is hypothetical, but if they decide to with 12 teams for football, dividing east vs west would be a travesty but going into 4 team pods would ensure that each division would have to be tested and not give, say a team like YSU a walk into the playoffs and force the XDSUs to be beaten up come December.

[F'N Hawks]

xpopcornx

[jacksfan29]

You do realize that UND traveling to ISUb, SIU or YSU once a year for FB is very different then sending all your sports to Sacramento, Flagstaff and Cheney? I have no problem throwing UND under the bus but at least be honest about what your posting.

As for UND being at fault for a split. They make a good scapegoat for UNI fans but keep in mind, UND were only admitted because the MVC teams knew Wichita were in a hurry to leave. Had the MVC not become a one bid basketball conference it is likely Wichita would have stayed. Instead, Wichita, and before them Creighton had no choice but to get out if they ever wanted to taste real success again.

We will have to accept Murray State, a low level OVC school that hasn't won in 20 years and the MVFC will need to be split geographically. There is no way it would ever be split MVC/Summit. That's a pie in the sky wish UNI fans put out there based on fear and arrogance, a really bad combination. The eastern MVC schools will be happy and ISUr and YSU will get a pass into the playoffs most years. The four Dakota schools won't care. We play who we have to play and don't complain about it. UNI fans will whine, MSU fans (the very few there are, will pine for the SBC). It is what it is.



Again, UND caused that from the start by joining. That divide was going to happen. The only thing Murray does, and it actually makes it easier for UNI fans to accept, is take out the possibility that UNI is "allowed east". It takes the tease out of it. Now we know we are F-ed so when it happens it's already accepted.


About the only way around it is to go MVC/Summit but that still doesn't work because there is only 5 Summit football programs. YSU is the only one that isn't Summit/MVC, but putting YSU (the extreme east edge) with the Summit schools (the extreme west edge) isn't going to happen.

ISUr
ISUb
MOSU
MUSU
SIU
UNI

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
WIU
YSU

The best way to make that work is to shift YSU to the MVC side and either UNI or MSU to the Summit side - which gets us right back to where we were with the directional split mostly, and I'm assuming the Summit teams would rather have MSU than UNI.


There isn't a "good" way to split it. It's Illinois schools (and Ohio), Dakota schools and then 1 Iowa school in the middle and 1 SW Missouri school.

While travel costs may not be an issue for NDSU, SDSU, UNI and ISUr, the reality is this is still FCS football and it's large about saving costs wherever possible. UND left a conference, largely over travel. I can't imagine trips to Youngstown, Murray and Terra Haute in the same season are high on their list of things to accomplish. WIU is central enough that going either way isn't an issue but I'm guessing they'd like to avoid 2 or 3 Dakota road trips PLUS a MSU/YSU trip in the same year if possible.

It, unfortunately is what it is I guess.

The MVC schools allowed UND in to help stabilize the Summit. The Summit schools better/have no choice but to do the same for the MVC.

Basically, this is all UND's fautl.

[clenz]

I posted this earlier but BF02 one worded me on it, but I think it could work, and still appease our overlords at UNI.

....

Again, all of this is hypothetical, but if they decide to with 12 teams for football, dividing east vs west would be a travesty but going into 4 team pods would ensure that each division would have to be tested and not give, say a team like YSU a walk into the playoffs and force the XDSUs to be beaten up come December.
It has nothin gto do with "UNI overlords". UNI is simply the most central school (pre with UND coming in the geo mid point of the conference is like less than an hour from Cedar Falls. Murray State shifts it back slightly towards between Iowa City and Davenport rather than Cedar Rapids).

The pod system probably works best, which means it won't happen. Protected rivals became an issue and it gets messy. I hate conferences over 10 - even 10 mostly sucks. However, once you're at 11 there is no difference between 11 and 12, 13 or 14

[Laker]

Just saw this posted:

Dave Reynolds‏Verified account @DaveReynolds2 (https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2) 46m46 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/856884572788862976)More



Sources have told me that Valley officials visited Murray State Monday, are at Valparaiso today and have visits set for Milwaukee and Omaha.

[Laker]

Dave Reynolds‏Verified account @DaveReynolds2 (https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2) 59m59 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/856884572788862976)More



Sources have told me that Valley officials visited Murray State Monday, are at Valparaiso today and have visits set for Milwaukee and Omaha.


http://www.tribstar.com/sports/todd-aaron-golden-time-to-embrace-for-the-mvc/article_e20de4a2-27be-11e7-aa9e-4fc1de9d49d8.html

[dbackjon]

Again, UND caused that from the start by joining. That divide was going to happen. The only thing Murray does, and it actually makes it easier for UNI fans to accept, is take out the possibility that UNI is "allowed east". It takes the tease out of it. Now we know we are F-ed so when it happens it's already accepted.


About the only way around it is to go MVC/Summit but that still doesn't work because there is only 5 Summit football programs. YSU is the only one that isn't Summit/MVC, but putting YSU (the extreme east edge) with the Summit schools (the extreme west edge) isn't going to happen.

ISUr
ISUb
MOSU
MUSU
SIU
UNI

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
WIU
YSU

The best way to make that work is to shift YSU to the MVC side and either UNI or MSU to the Summit side - which gets us right back to where we were with the directional split mostly, and I'm assuming the Summit teams would rather have MSU than UNI.


There isn't a "good" way to split it. It's Illinois schools (and Ohio), Dakota schools and then 1 Iowa school in the middle and 1 SW Missouri school.

While travel costs may not be an issue for NDSU, SDSU, UNI and ISUr, the reality is this is still FCS football and it's large about saving costs wherever possible. UND left a conference, largely over travel. I can't imagine trips to Youngstown, Murray and Terra Haute in the same season are high on their list of things to accomplish. WIU is central enough that going either way isn't an issue but I'm guessing they'd like to avoid 2 or 3 Dakota road trips PLUS a MSU/YSU trip in the same year if possible.

It, unfortunately is what it is I guess.

The MVC schools allowed UND in to help stabilize the Summit. The Summit schools better/have no choice but to do the same for the MVC.

Basically, this is all UND's fautl.

Yup - that is what I told a bizon fan on another board - you can't push for UND to get into the MVFC and then turn around and reject Murray if the MVC adds them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sources have told me that Valley officials visited Murray State Monday, are at Valparaiso today and have visits set for Milwaukee and Omaha.

Those last two are the most intriguing ones to me.

[Laker]

Those last two are the most intriguing ones to me.

I see that seven of nine MVC schools have to approve of an addition. Will they go with more than one or two?

Seven of Nine reminds me of Jeri Ryan.

[clenz]

I see that seven of nine MVC schools have to approve of an addition. Will they go with more than one or two?

Seven of Nine reminds me of Jeri Ryan.
I can't believe it would be only 1 at this point. It is Murray and Valpo at nearly 100% lock. Those two will get unanimous support.

UWM, if forced into a 12th this year probably is the pick.

I can't see UNO getting enough support.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Which gives MVC hoops the best basketball, UW-Milwaukee, Valpo, or Murray State? All three have had decent success. Probably Valpo, I guess.

The path of least resistance seems to be what clenz is saying, Valpo (good hoops, belated replacement for Creighton, football stays in PFL) and Murray State (regional football balance, possible break into divisions, good hoops).

[clenz]

Which gives MVC hoops the best basketball, UW-Milwaukee, Valpo, or Murray State? All three have had decent success. Probably Valpo, I guess.

The path of least resistance seems to be what clenz is saying, Valpo (good hoops, belated replacement for Creighton, football stays in PFL) and Murray State (regional football balance, possible break into divisions, good hoops).
It seems the "preferred" order is
1. Valpo
2. Murray




3. UWM - UWM only exists if BOTH Valpo and Murray State do.

It's so hard to tell. MSU seems most likely as we would be replacing a public with a public and MSU has not been quite about this at all. Valpo, being private, hasn't even breathed a word of conference move. Sounds like IF only 1 is added Valpo is the preferred choice, but given how public MSU has been I can't imagine it not being both

I believe that Valpo and MUSU will get added and we will play a 20 game conference schedule for a year or three and then evaluate where we are at and want to be.

[Laker]

It seems the "preferred" order is
1. Valpo
2. Murray

3. UWM - UWM only exists if BOTH Valpo and Murray State do.

Would there be any problems with UW-GB over this or wouldn't that be a big deal to split them up?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I know this shouldn't be a consideration in this sort of move, but if you tried to break down "TV market", which is bigger, Valpo (northern Indiana) or Milwaukee? It's possible UWM is getting play because of that.

[clenz]

I know this shouldn't be a consideration in this sort of move, but if you tried to break down "TV market", which is bigger, Valpo (northern Indiana) or Milwaukee? It's possible UWM is getting play because of that.
Valpo's market is actually pretty good sized being right on the edge of Chicago/Gary. Someone on the MVC board posted the numbers, but they were already.

UW-M is likely a play for part of Milwaukee and a "potential" add. UW-M could have the potential to develop given their size, arena, history from about 00-10.

I don't think it'd be a coincidence that 3 or 4 adds since 2013 would be Milwaukee (Milwaukee and Chicago are nearly 1 city at this point with Racine, Kenosha, Waukegon, and Evanston), Loyola in downtown Chicago (not that it actually adds any market) and Valpo on the east side of Chicago. The MVC will never truly "have" the Chicago/Milwaukee market. However, the MVC is hooked into Comcast Sports Net-Chicago for a TV deal. Adding teams in that area helps strengthen that partnership, and sales ability of the relationship, moving forward.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24893&stc=1

The MVC is committed to Arch Madness in St Louis, but it wouldn't be entirely shocking to see Chicago get a look in 5-6 years when the current contract with the ScottTrade Center expires. Not likely, but who knows.

[FargoBison]

Somebody needs to explain this fascination with Omaha. They are a hockey school that has had a few years of being above average in basketball in its entire existence. They bring about as much of the Omaha market as UMKC brings the KC market. Maybe they can turn into something but if they don't, they'll be an anchor.

Milwaukee I get. Potential is there since they have actually won in the past, good recruiting area and geographical fit. Their athletic department is a mess though. I really thought the Valley would go to 11 and then wait it out for a while.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thanks for the background. Finally - zero, negative chance of UWM having FCS football? I am trying to remember whether UW has a stranglehold on football and would fight tooth and nail against another football program being there.

Every so often I wonder whether Marquette is interested in FCS football. They have a club team they've had for a very long time.

[clenz]

11 is still most likely.

I think places like UNO, UMKC, UIC, etc... are smoke screens to come extent. Gauge interest from fans. Put some "incentive" to meet demands for schools like UWM, MSU and Valpo along the lines of "Hey, if you don't do X and Y then we have options over there"

[FargoBison]

Thanks for the background. Finally - zero, negative chance of UWM having FCS football? I am trying to remember whether UW has a stranglehold on football and would fight tooth and nail against another football program being there.

Every so often I wonder whether Marquette is interested in FCS football. They have a club team they've had for a very long time.

Yeah, I can't see UW ever letting football happen at Milwaukee. It would be like Nebraska and Omaha, not going to happen at the DI level.

[clenz]

Thanks for the background. Finally - zero, negative chance of UWM having FCS football? I am trying to remember whether UW has a stranglehold on football and would fight tooth and nail against another football program being there.

Every so often I wonder whether Marquette is interested in FCS football. They have a club team they've had for a very long time.
I can't see either Marquette or UWM doing it.

The Big East is okay with Nova and Butler at the FCS level as it's been there for a long time. I can't see a start up being "okay" in the Big East.

UWM doesn't seem like it's in a position.

I also can't see UW-Madison being okay with another D1 football program in the state. See UN-L and UN-O

[TheKingpin28]

It has nothin gto do with "UNI overlords". UNI is simply the most central school (pre with UND coming in the geo mid point of the conference is like less than an hour from Cedar Falls. Murray State shifts it back slightly towards between Iowa City and Davenport rather than Cedar Rapids).

The pod system probably works best, which means it won't happen. Protected rivals became an issue and it gets messy. I hate conferences over 10 - even 10 mostly sucks. However, once you're at 11 there is no difference between 11 and 12, 13 or 14

The pod system is the only system that would somewhat balance out the football issues. The reason why I say UNI overlords is that when it comes to whining and how "screwed" they will be, they always seem to be on the forefront of it.

[clenz]

The pod system is the only system that would somewhat balance out the football issues. The reason why I say UNI overlords is that when it comes to whining and how "screwed" they will be, they always seem to be on the forefront of it.
If you could see the 4 hour long text convo I had Friday night.......xcoffeex

[Anthony215]

Murray having to move their football to the Pioneer League would actually not be too bad of a move if they aren't willing to shell out the full 63 scholarships. And the every other year trip to San Diego would probably be a nice get away for the players the years they don't earn the Pioneer League NCAA playoff berth. Most of the schools in the PL are within driving distance of KY except Marist.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Murray having to move their football to the Pioneer League would actually not be too bad of a move if they aren't willing to shell out the full 63 scholarships. And the every other year trip to San Diego would probably be a nice get away for the players the years they don't earn the Pioneer League NCAA playoff berth. Most of the schools in the PL are within driving distance of KY except Marist.

I have to admit this was in the back of my mind. Guessing though that the appetite at Murray State is for scholly FCS football.

[WestCoastAggie]

I won't be surprised to see a MVC/OVC combination with football staying in the Ohio Valley.

[TheKingpin28]

If you could see the 4 hour long text convo I had Friday night.......xcoffeex

I got an inbox... :D

[Laker]

I got an inbox... :D

Yes- the only thing I'll probably watch on TV tonight is NCIS. Should have plenty of time.

[clenz]

Murray having to move their football to the Pioneer League would actually not be too bad of a move if they aren't willing to shell out the full 63 scholarships. And the every other year trip to San Diego would probably be a nice get away for the players the years they don't earn the Pioneer League NCAA playoff berth. Most of the schools in the PL are within driving distance of KY except Marist.

Scholarship football isn't going away from what I can gather. PFL teams can't get money games. That is important money.

I'm with WCA in thinking that staying in the OVC is a likely scenario. They wouldn't have enough teams to play a full 8 game conference schedule if they left. It seems like a reasonable move, at least short term.

Maybe in a few years the MVFC is the right move but I'm not convinced it would be up front.

[Bisonator]

Basically, this is all UND's fautl.

What isn't?:D

[BisonFan02]

The MVC taking a look at UNO confirms everything I think about the Valley. Haha

[citdog]

The MVC taking a look at UNO confirms everything I think about the Valley. Haha

It's like a Draw Four Card...

[BisonTru]

The MVC taking a look at UNO confirms everything I think about the Valley. Haha

#TakeUND

[WestCoastAggie]

Scholarship football isn't going away from what I can gather. PFL teams can't get money games. That is important money.

I'm with WCA in thinking that staying in the OVC is a likely scenario. They wouldn't have enough teams to play a full 8 game conference schedule if they left. It seems like a reasonable move, at least short term.

Maybe in a few years the MVFC is the right move but I'm not convinced it would be up front.

Well, they (the OVC) would be able to... But... Umm... Tennessee State's 4 game OOC "stipulation."

[WestCoastAggie]

Somebody needs to explain this fascination with Omaha. They are a hockey school that has had a few years of being above average in basketball in its entire existence. They bring about as much of the Omaha market as UMKC brings the KC market. Maybe they can turn into something but if they don't, they'll be an anchor.

Milwaukee I get. Potential is there since they have actually won in the past, good recruiting area and geographical fit. Their athletic department is a mess though. I really thought the Valley would go to 11 and then wait it out for a while.

That school's admin for a whole has been having trouble for a while.

[dgtw]

If Murray leaves for the MVC I do not want their football to stay. I hope the OVC makes an offer to Kennesaw State.


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[BisonTru]

If Murray leaves for the MVC I do not want their football to stay. I hope the OVC makes an offer to Kennesaw State.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any interest in North Alabama?

[JSUSoutherner]

Any interest in North Alabama?
I think most of us would LOVE that and I'm sure the UNA fans would enjoy it as well but since the OVC has no foresight that ship has sailed for the Big South.

I don't know if it's possible but if Murray left I wouldn't be at all saddened if that spot was never filled. It would just give us another chance and go out and play a team with a pulse.

A yearly home and home with UTC or UNA, a pay game, and two slots for a ranked FCS teams like Richmond or El Cid. That sounds like a heck of a good schedule to me. And then think if we get a 12th game option. Oh the fun that could be had. :D

[dgtw]

I would imagine UNA is committed to the Big South/A-Sun for a few years at least. Kennesaw's contract with them runs through 2018, so this would be just the right time for Murray to leave and then offer Kennesaw a membership.

I think either would be a good fit for the OVC in the long run.

UNA has historical ties from D2 with both Jax State and Tennessee-Martin. They have a strong football program and a very good basketball history, though not so much in recent years.

Kennesaw State would be the best match for Jax State. The schools are less than two hours apart, so it would be an easy trip for both fan bases and teams. Jax State has a strong alumni base in the Atlanta area and recruits Atlanta quite a bit, so this would be a big benefit for us. I think once they really get going, it could be a good rivalry. While Kennesaw would be a bit of a haul for some schools, it is located near the world's busiest airport, so it isn't hard to get to if none of the highways have collapsed. It would make a good Thursday-Saturday swing for basketball teams to play us both in the same weekend.

Since it makes so much sense, the OVC will ignore Kennesaw and add some non-football school that I've never heard of.

[Model Citizen]

Since it makes so much sense, the OVC will ignore Kennesaw and add some non-football school that I've never heard of.

Knock knock.

Who's there?

No...

No who?

No'thern Kentucky.

[dgtw]

Knock knock.

Who's there?

No...

No who?

No'thern Kentucky.

They tried to get in a few years ago but the league made the decision to go with SIU-Edwardsville, which won one conference game this year in basketball.

If Belmont left, I'd be all for NKU joining. But I do not want a non-football school replacing Murray State.

Of course, the next time the OVC takes my advice it will be the first time.

[Model Citizen]

The OVC's money maker is basketball. With a Kentucky school leaving, I'd guess that another Kentucky school (esp one coming off a conference tournament championship/automatic bid) would be attractive.

[dgtw]

The OVC's money maker is basketball. With a Kentucky school leaving, I'd guess that another Kentucky school (esp one coming off a conference tournament championship/automatic bid) would be attractive.

True, but that leaves us as a eight team football conference. That means only three guaranteed home games every other year.


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[BisonFan02]

True, but that leaves us as a eight team football conference. That means only three guaranteed home games every other year.


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Add Missouri State for all sports.

[Model Citizen]

Buy a game against Morehead State. Lol

[dgtw]

Add Missouri State for all sports.

Nice try.


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[BisonFan02]

Nice try.


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https://media.giphy.com/media/CpgNjk2E54p7W/giphy.gif

[GodHelpTheBears]

Nice try.


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If you don't want a top 20 baseball team that's on you xthumbsupx

On a serious note, football is not a long term proposition at Missouri State. There simply is not a conference in Division I that we plausibly fit in, as each conference appears to be stretching away from the core of the lower 48. Fan support is overwhelmingly skewed toward the elderly. Our ticket sales will drop precipitously as these older fans become unable to make it to the stadium for whatever reason. State support for higher education essentially does not exist, and our politicians are lashing the universities as punishment for the UM-C protests a couple of years ago.

When I imagine my alma mater in 2027, I just don't see a place for football. It is what it is.

[dgtw]

I actually did consider them as a replacement for Murray. They'd be a good warm body if we needed one, but we already have one bad program in Missouri.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thundar]

Again, UND caused that from the start by joining. That divide was going to happen. The only thing Murray does, and it actually makes it easier for UNI fans to accept, is take out the possibility that UNI is "allowed east". It takes the tease out of it. Now we know we are F-ed so when it happens it's already accepted.


About the only way around it is to go MVC/Summit but that still doesn't work because there is only 5 Summit football programs. YSU is the only one that isn't Summit/MVC, but putting YSU (the extreme east edge) with the Summit schools (the extreme west edge) isn't going to happen.

ISUr
ISUb
MOSU
MUSU
SIU
UNI

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
WIU
YSU

The best way to make that work is to shift YSU to the MVC side and either UNI or MSU to the Summit side - which gets us right back to where we were with the directional split mostly, and I'm assuming the Summit teams would rather have MSU than UNI.


There isn't a "good" way to split it. It's Illinois schools (and Ohio), Dakota schools and then 1 Iowa school in the middle and 1 SW Missouri school.

While travel costs may not be an issue for NDSU, SDSU, UNI and ISUr, the reality is this is still FCS football and it's large about saving costs wherever possible. UND left a conference, largely over travel. I can't imagine trips to Youngstown, Murray and Terra Haute in the same season are high on their list of things to accomplish. WIU is central enough that going either way isn't an issue but I'm guessing they'd like to avoid 2 or 3 Dakota road trips PLUS a MSU/YSU trip in the same year if possible.

It, unfortunately is what it is I guess.

The MVC schools allowed UND in to help stabilize the Summit. The Summit schools better/have no choice but to do the same for the MVC.

Basically, this is all UND's fautl.

SUMMIT brought in a playoff team, MVC brings in a boat anchor...

[clenz]

SUMMIT brought in a playoff team, MVC brings in a boat anchor...
Summit brought in a team that didn't beat a single playoff team, and has been taken to the wire by Drake and crushed by Missouri State by 38 points in the last two years.

It's also smarter, once your have 4-5 really good teams, to not continue to load up on top heavy teams. Adding some mid/bottom teams is smarter to avoid further casualty

[BEAR]

If you don't want a top 20 baseball team that's on you xthumbsupx

On a serious note, football is not a long term proposition at Missouri State. There simply is not a conference in Division I that we plausibly fit in, as each conference appears to be stretching away from the core of the lower 48. Fan support is overwhelmingly skewed toward the elderly. Our ticket sales will drop precipitously as these older fans become unable to make it to the stadium for whatever reason. State support for higher education essentially does not exist, and our politicians are lashing the universities as punishment for the UM-C protests a couple of years ago.

When I imagine my alma mater in 2027, I just don't see a place for football. It is what it is.

Please join the Southland. We have dead weight that I would love to lose.

[clenz]

Oh, there is also a Casey's just a coupe miles north of MSU's campus/stadium.

https://www.google.com/search?q=casey%27s+general+stroes+kentucky&oq=casey%27s+general+stroes+kentucky&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.8336j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=casey's+general+stores+kentucky&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=37294884,-87349199,63109&tbm=lcl&tbs=lrf:!2m1!1e3!3sEAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4&rlfi=hd:;si:1343051750763420162;mv:!1m3!1d157795.6 5970399737!2d-88.30695940244141!3d36.70909374038805!3m2!1i1035!2 i592!4f13.1;tbs:lrf:!2m1!1e3!3sEAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4

[F'N Hawks]

Summit brought in a team that didn't beat a single playoff team, and has been taken to the wire by Drake and crushed by Missouri State by 38 points in the last two years.

It

Really? I was way off about when UND played certain teams. Thanks for the update.

[Yote 53]

Summit brought in a team that didn't beat a single playoff team, and has been taken to the wire by Drake and crushed by Missouri State by 38 points in the last two years.

It's also smarter, once your have 4-5 really good teams, to not continue to load up on top heavy teams. Adding some mid/bottom teams is smarter to avoid further casualty

This sums up why UNI has been sliding and is becoming mediocre. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. UNI would rather take the easy route.

Previous poster was right, the Summit brought in a conference champ and a playoff team in UND. The MVC would bring in dead weight. The differences in mentality between the two conferences is becoming clearer and clearer.

[Thumper 76]

You do realize that UND traveling to ISUb, SIU or YSU once a year for FB is very different then sending all your sports to Sacramento, Flagstaff and Cheney? I have no problem throwing UND under the bus but at least be honest about what your posting.

As for UND being at fault for a split. They make a good scapegoat for UNI fans but keep in mind, UND were only admitted because the MVC teams knew Wichita were in a hurry to leave. Had the MVC not become a one bid basketball conference it is likely Wichita would have stayed. Instead, Wichita, and before them Creighton had no choice but to get out if they ever wanted to taste real success again.

We will have to accept Murray State, a low level OVC school that hasn't won in 20 years and the MVFC will need to be split geographically. There is no way it would ever be split MVC/Summit. That's a pie in the sky wish UNI fans put out there based on fear and arrogance, a really bad combination. The eastern MVC schools will be happy and ISUr and YSU will get a pass into the playoffs most years. The four Dakota schools won't care. We play who we have to play and don't complain about it. UNI fans will whine, MSU fans (the very few there are, will pine for the SBC). It is what it is.
I care. I'm not real happy with the idea of the Deadbirds and Waddlebirds getting a free pass to the playoffs every year.

Thanks for the background. Finally - zero, negative chance of UWM having FCS football? I am trying to remember whether UW has a stranglehold on football and would fight tooth and nail against another football program being there.

Every so often I wonder whether Marquette is interested in FCS football. They have a club team they've had for a very long time.
Zero percent chance of those teams going FCS. If it were to happen it would be one of the UW DIII schools who already have pretty solid stadiums and attendance. And they don't stand a chanc either cause of Madison.

Murray having to move their football to the Pioneer League would actually not be too bad of a move if they aren't willing to shell out the full 63 scholarships. And the every other year trip to San Diego would probably be a nice get away for the players the years they don't earn the Pioneer League NCAA playoff berth. Most of the schools in the PL are within driving distance of KY except Marist.
I'm fairly certain that not every MVFC school is at the full 63.

Oh, there is also a Casey's just a coupe miles north of MSU's campus/stadium.

https://www.google.com/search?q=casey%27s+general+stroes+kentucky&oq=casey%27s+general+stroes+kentucky&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.8336j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=casey's+general+stores+kentucky&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=37294884,-87349199,63109&tbm=lcl&tbs=lrf:!2m1!1e3!3sEAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4&rlfi=hd:;si:1343051750763420162;mv:!1m3!1d157795.6 5970399737!2d-88.30695940244141!3d36.70909374038805!3m2!1i1035!2 i592!4f13.1;tbs:lrf:!2m1!1e3!3sEAE,lf:1,lf_ui:4
of course you champion the Racer cause xlolx

Murray will exasperate a stupidly unbalanced schedule we are going to get to have. #BlameTehValley

Adding a bottom feeder makes sense to help the conference if the top teams get to play them. If they just get added to an already weaker division of the conference it doesn't help.

[UNIFanSince1983]

This sums up why UNI has been sliding and is becoming mediocre. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. UNI would rather take the easy route.

Previous poster was right, the Summit brought in a conference champ and a playoff team in UND. The MVC would bring in dead weight. The differences in mentality between the two conferences is becoming clearer and clearer.

Are you saying that a conference with the 12 best teams you can find would be the best idea?

So you have like JMU, NDSU, SHSU, JSU, Montana, EWU, Villanova, SDSU, (insert great team here) is actually a good idea?

So you literally have 0 weeks off during the regular season?

[jacksfan29]

Are you saying that a conference with the 12 best teams you can find would be the best idea?

So you have like JMU, NDSU, SHSU, JSU, Montana, EWU, Villanova, SDSU, (insert great team here) is actually a good idea?

So you literally have 0 weeks off during the regular season?

The MVFC already has ISUb, MSU, and lately SIU. All fill the role of bye weeks most years, all powerful MVC schools. But let's look at the bright side, in looking at Murray's "Stadium", if you buy a big enough truck it looks like you can watch from the parking lot, honk your horn and flash your lights on every good play. Just like South Dakota HS football xeyebrowx. What a great get!!! Sorry, I'll take UND any day of the week over that hot mess being touted by Team UNI.

[Thumper 76]

The MVFC already has ISUb, MSU, and lately SIU. All fill the role of bye weeks most years, all powerful MVC schools. But let's look at the bright side, in looking at Murray's "Stadium", if you buy a big enough truck it looks like you can watch from the parking lot, honk your horn and flash your lights on every good play. Just like South Dakota HS football xeyebrowx. What a great get!!! Sorry, I'll take UND any day of the week over that hot mess being touted by Team UNI.
I'd rather have neither of them, just sayin.

[FargoBison]

I agree with the UNI fan, adding Murray isn't exactly all that bad. You don't want to have a league where everyone beats up on each other. But unfortunately if the league moves to divisions that is exactly what will happen since they'll be very unbalanced.

If I'm a Dakota school or UNI, I ok adding Murray but I put my foot down to divisions. The eastern schools can pound sand.

[jacksfan29]

I'd rather have neither of them, just sayin.

How about we just dump ISUb or MSU and pick up UND. Immediate improvement to the conference.

The reality is that the Summit schools need to begin questioning our relationship with the MVC football playing schools. The MVC are doing a dog and pony show at UNO today. Seriously? UNO? Were UMKC not available? That is not a conference looking to improve. It is a conference striving for mediocrity. Imagine the guffaws coming from Wichita and Creighton fans at the announcement of a UNO visit.

All four Dakota ADs and school Presidents need to be on the phone with each other discussing where we as a group would like to be in 5 years. The MVC, and by association the MVFC are proving that mediocrity is their goal. I can speak for SDSU. We did not build a new stadium, IPF and we are not upgrading Frost so we can be mediocre.

[jacksfan29]

You will have 12. You have no choice but to have divisions. Your other choice is the BSC route with "rivals". In other words, the Dakota 4 will play each other every year, and since we know the eastern schools can't afford to travel you will have divisions by virtue of the fact that ISUb, ISUr and SIU (you can add Murray State) all won't travel west more then once per year. Not having divisions with 12 will actually be worse then having them. There is no good way, under the current MVFC structure and the cheap ass MVC schools to have balanced scheduling in a 12 team league.


I agree with the UNI fan, adding Murray isn't exactly all that bad. You don't want to have a league where everyone beats up on each other. But unfortunately if the league moves to divisions that is exactly what will happen since they'll be very unbalanced.

If I'm a Dakota school or UNI, I ok adding Murray but I put my foot down to divisions. The eastern schools can pound sand.

[FargoBison]

You will have 12. You have no choice but to have divisions. Your other choice is the BSC route with "rivals". In other words, the Dakota 4 will play each other every year, and since we know the eastern schools can't afford to travel you will have divisions by virtue of the fact that ISUb, ISUr and SIU all won't travel west more then once per year. Not having divisions with 12 will actually be worse then having them. There is no good way, under the current MVFC structure and the cheap ass MVC schools to have balanced scheduling in a 12 team league.

Who cares if they can't afford it, if they don't like it then they can go find a new league or drop the sport. The Dakota schools are in the league and have full voting rights, we can go along with Murray just as they did with the UXD's but we don't have to bend to their every desire.

Give each school 2 or 3 permanent rivals and then build the schedules from there.

[citdog]

This sums up why UNI has been sliding and is becoming mediocre. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. UNI would rather take the easy route..

REALLY? Have you seen UNI's OOC football schedule? Easy route my ass...

[clenz]

How about we just dump ISUb or MSU and pick up UND. Immediate improvement to the conference.

The reality is that the Summit schools need to begin questioning our relationship with the MVC football playing schools. The MVC are doing a dog and pony show at UNO today. Seriously? UNO? Were UMKC not available? That is not a conference looking to improve. It is a conference striving for mediocrity. Imagine the guffaws coming from Wichita and Creighton fans at the announcement of a UNO visit.

All four Dakota ADs and school Presidents need to be on the phone with each other discussing where we as a group would like to be in 5 years. The MVC, and by association the MVFC are proving that mediocrity is their goal. I can speak for SDSU. We did not build a new stadium, IPF and we are not upgrading Frost so we can be mediocre.
Where the living **** are you going to go?
Who are you going to add?
UNO is a **** show and they have no chance at MVC. Remember, they are a Summit member. YOUR CONFERENCE voted to add them from the very start.
Not looking to improve the MVC? Yeah, Valpo and Murray are horrid and would do nothing for the MVC.

Again, where the **** are you going. Lay your league out. I want members, why they were chosen, how they fit the league build, etc... Who are you inviting? Let's see you actually post something productive for once.


Here's a hint. WIU isn't sticking around The Summit if you start adding west. WIU and the Indiana schools are prime OVC/Horizon candidates. You have 4 football members without WIU. You don't have enough football members to start your own conference even if you manage to keep WIU. You need a minimum of 6 to start a conference. The NCAA isn't going to let that fly at 6. You'll need a minimum of 8 - likely 9 - football schools for the NCAA to allow a new conference. That means adding at least 4, likely 5 new schools

You aren't getting Montana.
You aren't getting Montana State.
You aren't getting Eastern Washington.
You aren't getting NMSU.
You aren't getting Idaho.
You aren't getting Idaho State

Your options are Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, Weber State....um....maybe you grab SFA or UCA from the SLC. You want to talk about a dog **** conference after the top two teams. NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, UNV, SUU, WSU, UCA and SFA.

Oh, and you still have UNO, ORU, Denver on top of those 9. 12 isn't a horrid number for a conference, but that conference stretches from the canadian border, to the Utah/Nevada boarder to the Texas/Louisiana border.

It's not just one football trip every other year, you're sending all of your teams to that footprint. That footprint is 1,742,995,512,726 square miles. I'll type that out for you. Thats ONE TRILLION square miles covered in that conference.


Oh, and the NCAA probably is going to go "Holy ****, Summit League get your **** together. You're membership changes faster than a whore finds a new John.". The Summit has had to get special waivers from the NCAA because of the conference continuity rule. Dropping 3 new members to add 6 new isn't going to continue to get that waiver - especially when trying to get new sports added as NCAA sponsored conference.


So, I'm asking you. Lay out your new conference. Lay out who it is. Why they were chosen. How they fit the conference mold.

[clenz]

Who cares if they can't afford it, if they don't like it then they can go find a new league or drop the sport. The Dakota schools are in the league and have full voting rights, we can go along with Murray just as they did with the UXD's but we don't have to bend to their every desire.

Give each school 2 or 3 permanent rivals and then build the schedules from there.
There wasn't a single MVC school that "wanted" UND, but all voted for them because they understand how this all works.

I would be if Murray State applies for MVFC membership they get it with unanimous support.

I also wouldn't bet against a pod system since divisions don't work given the extreme complexity behind conference title games and divisions in the FCS.

[jacksfan29]

Blah Blah Blah. I'm absolutely done with UNI fans. The arrogance coming from a directional school is absolutely hilarious. You and your ilk have ripped every school as being beneath you yet your what, the 4th attractive school to outside conferences left in the MVC? ISUr, Bradley, MSU... UNI.

My preference will always be west and my guess is the day comes when that is the direction we go. Most of the MVC schools are anchors already, in the next decade the anchor will just get heavier, dragging everyone down with them. We shall see what occurs over the next decade. I can tell you that talks have occurred in the past decade with schools to our west. Schools which fit our profile. Schools which we have strong academic ties. Schools not happy with the direction their own conference has taken. Where those talks go will depend a lot on which direction three conferences, maybe four if you include the HL take.

As for Omaha. Yep, they are in our league right now. A new member who have never finished above 3rd in their history but as a new D1 school we take what we can get knowing that the future is ahead of us, not behind (see MVC). That league which we, along with NDSU built. A league which used to be called the Mid Con. You recall the Mid Con. You once played in it, and sucked. The same league that used to get 2,000 fans to their championship game playing in a HS gym which now averages over 9K in most sessions. A league whose conference tournament will outdraw a Wichita State less MVC beginning next year. Will Omaha get an invite to the MVC? Not sure. UNI fans are the only ones who seem to think it is a bad idea. The visit alone is enough to give a hint at the direction the MVC, or at least portions of the MVC want to take. Or maybe that is the only option out there acceptable to the anchors. Mediocrity is why WSU left and it seems to still be a theme some schools in the MVC want to promote. Argue all you want about UNO. Your President is in Omaha today.

So I ask you. Where will UNI go when a school like Omaha gets invited to the MVC? The MAC? HL? OVC? Summit? The MAC isn't taking you and neither is the OVC. The HL and Summit will, so I guess you have optionsxlolx. But hey, not an issue right? According to UNI fans your going to the Mountain West. Good luck with that.

By the way. Let us talk about Valpo and Murray. Giant killers, correct? Murray are on a downward trend. We know. We've played them when they were good and we had Wolters, we played them when they were bad, and we were struggling with Daum. At one point very impressive back in the day,l not so much lately. Valpo? We will see what Valpo does without a Drew at the helm. Last year they were solid but last I checked, they didn't come out of the Horizon. In fact, if they stay in the Horizon I expect Oakland to begin dominating them. Valpo could be a solid add, but they aren't replacing WSU or CU. Not even within shouting distance of either.


Where the living **** are you going to go?
Who are you going to add?
UNO is a **** show and they have no chance at MVC. Remember, they are a Summit member. YOUR CONFERENCE voted to add them from the very start.
Not looking to improve the MVC? Yeah, Valpo and Murray are horrid and would do nothing for the MVC.

Again, where the **** are you going. Lay your league out. I want members, why they were chosen, how they fit the league build, etc... Who are you inviting? Let's see you actually post something productive for once.


Here's a hint. WIU isn't sticking around The Summit if you start adding west. WIU and the Indiana schools are prime OVC/Horizon candidates. You have 4 football members without WIU. You don't have enough football members to start your own conference even if you manage to keep WIU. You need a minimum of 6 to start a conference. The NCAA isn't going to let that fly at 6. You'll need a minimum of 8 - likely 9 - football schools for the NCAA to allow a new conference. That means adding at least 4, likely 5 new schools

You aren't getting Montana.
You aren't getting Montana State.
You aren't getting Eastern Washington.
You aren't getting NMSU.
You aren't getting Idaho.
You aren't getting Idaho State

Your options are Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, Weber State....um....maybe you grab SFA or UCA from the SLC. You want to talk about a dog **** conference after the top two teams. NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, UNV, SUU, WSU, UCA and SFA.

Oh, and you still have UNO, ORU, Denver on top of those 9. 12 isn't a horrid number for a conference, but that conference stretches from the canadian border, to the Utah/Nevada boarder to the Texas/Louisiana border.

It's not just one football trip every other year, you're sending all of your teams to that footprint. That footprint is 1,742,995,512,726 square miles. I'll type that out for you. Thats ONE TRILLION square miles covered in that conference.


Oh, and the NCAA probably is going to go "Holy ****, Summit League get your **** together. You're membership changes faster than a whore finds a new John.". The Summit has had to get special waivers from the NCAA because of the conference continuity rule. Dropping 3 new members to add 6 new isn't going to continue to get that waiver - especially when trying to get new sports added as NCAA sponsored conference.


So, I'm asking you. Lay out your new conference. Lay out who it is. Why they were chosen. How they fit the conference mold.

[clenz]

You're deflecting.

What's your solution for the Dakota's then.

Stop deflecting and blaming your unstable conference on me.

[BisonTru]

The only guy I hope they keep is Anish Schroff. He does the FCS championship game, and has done a few NDSU games. Met him at Chubs (local NDSU wateringhole) once. Good guy.

The rest of them. xcoffeex

Jay Walker needs to go or be limited to HBU's and the celebration bowl only. The guy knows nothing about the FCS landscape.

-Sorry wrong thread, UND sucks as does UNI and SDSU and USD. :D

[TheKingpin28]

There wasn't a single MVC school that "wanted" UND, but all voted for them because they understand how this all works.

I would be if Murray State applies for MVFC membership they get it with unanimous support.

I also wouldn't bet against a pod system since divisions don't work given the extreme complexity behind conference title games and divisions in the FCS.

If they go with the pod system, I want royalties! xlolx

[SDFS]

Clenz - Go SIOUX!!!

[citdog]

The only guy I hope they keep is Anish Schroff.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G07szNm_5Jk

[GodHelpTheBears]

How about we just dump ISUb or MSU and pick up UND. Immediate improvement to the conference.

The reality is that the Summit schools need to begin questioning our relationship with the MVC football playing schools. The MVC are doing a dog and pony show at UNO today. Seriously? UNO? Were UMKC not available? That is not a conference looking to improve. It is a conference striving for mediocrity. Imagine the guffaws coming from Wichita and Creighton fans at the announcement of a UNO visit.

All four Dakota ADs and school Presidents need to be on the phone with each other discussing where we as a group would like to be in 5 years. The MVC, and by association the MVFC are proving that mediocrity is their goal. I can speak for SDSU. We did not build a new stadium, IPF and we are not upgrading Frost so we can be mediocre.

Please do. If we're going to travel 10+ hours for games, might as well go to Texas where it's worth a ****.

[PantherRob82]

This sums up why UNI has been sliding and is becoming mediocre. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. UNI would rather take the easy route.

Previous poster was right, the Summit brought in a conference champ and a playoff team in UND. The MVC would bring in dead weight. The differences in mentality between the two conferences is becoming clearer and clearer.

Let's look at OOC scheduling and you let me know which MVC or Summit team does better.

[PantherRob82]

The MVFC already has ISUb, MSU, and lately SIU. All fill the role of bye weeks most years, all powerful MVC schools. But let's look at the bright side, in looking at Murray's "Stadium", if you buy a big enough truck it looks like you can watch from the parking lot, honk your horn and flash your lights on every good play. Just like South Dakota HS football xeyebrowx. What a great get!!! Sorry, I'll take UND any day of the week over that hot mess being touted by Team UNI.

Just like Terre Haute.

[BisonFan02]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_jN3KHp5c

NDSU to the Sunbelt confirmed.

[Model Citizen]

Panther Rob, I like that avatar! PFL is always in fashion.

[RabidRabbit]

UNI, if you want to be the one team getting the auto-bid, and the only bid, stay in the MVC. If instead, you'd like a conference poised to start earning multiple bids, and success, join your 1923-1977 conference mates again. Summit has virtually all your sports, draws great crowds, and you're in the central portion of the conference. You're likely to be as dominating as you were in your NCC days. Without Wichita State and Creighton, MVC doesn't have much on the Summit. While you're at it, encourage ISU-R to join too. Strip those two out of MVC into Summit, and the MVC is below Summit.

[F'N Hawks]

What I don't get about the MVC's new desire for "big media markets" is that their recent history/success has been built around strong programs from small markets. Their core membership as of today are all situated in small markets.

The MVC built it's strong mid-major reputation off the programs themselves, not the size of the town they are located in.

[clenz]

The Summit is a sneeze away from falling apart

[Yote 53]

Let's look at OOC scheduling and you let me know which MVC or Summit team does better.

Umm, how about South Dakota? Since we joined the MVFC in 2012 here is the OOC.

2012 - Montana, Colgate, Northwestern
2013 - UC-Davis, Kansas, Northern Arizona
2014 - Oregon, William Penn, Montana, Northern Arizona
2015 - Kansas State, UC-Davis, Drake
2016 - New Mexico, Weber State, North Dakota
2017 - Drake, Bowling Green, North Dakota
2018 - Kansas State, Northern Colorado, Weber State
2019 - Montana, Oklahoma, Houston Baptist, Northern Colorado
2020 - Iowa State, rest TBD

Only dog on that list was in 2014 with William Penn, and that was due to a dropout having to fill a hole in the schedule, everything else has been FCS or FBS. Prior to 2012 we've played at Wisconsin, Air Force, Central Florida, & Minnesota, beating Minnesota at TCF Bank. Have also scheduled good FCS programs from SELA to Montana State to Eastern Washington, including beating a pre-season #1 EWU team at home in the DakotaDome.

UNI is not the only school that schedules good OOC. SDSU and NDSU both play good OOC schedules as well. So yeah, there are some schools that do it as good, or better, than UNI.

[clenz]

Last year was the first time UNI lost a road FCS OOC game since 1997. Just our third home OOC FCS loss since 1998.

[ST_Lawson]

NDSU to the Sunbelt confirmed.

MVFC too hard for you? xeyebrowx

[dbackjon]

The arrogance of those that call great schools "Directional" as a slur.

[citdog]

The arrogance of those that call great schools "Directional" as a slur.

It IS?

[SDFS]

Last year was the first time UNI lost a road FCS OOC game since 1997. Just our third home OOC FCS loss since 1998.

Don't forget about this one....

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=58640&SPID=6399&DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=776032


CEDAR FALLS, Iowa—Junior Weston Dressler’s 50-yard touchdown reception with 54 seconds remaining gave UND a stunning 35-31 victory tonight over Northern Iowa, the third-ranked team in Division I-AA football and last year’s I-AA national runner-up.

[BisonFan02]

MVFC too hard for you? xeyebrowx

Hasn't been recently.

[SDFS]

The Summit is a sneeze away from falling apart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHD_aICH-Sc

Yes, Big Sky - did you miss us!?!? I wished we had never left in the first place.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Don't forget about this one....

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=58640&SPID=6399&DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=776032


CEDAR FALLS, Iowa—Junior Weston Dressler’s 50-yard touchdown reception with 54 seconds remaining gave UND a stunning 35-31 victory tonight over Northern Iowa, the third-ranked team in Division I-AA football and last year’s I-AA national runner-up.

To be fair UND was DII at that point. So his point does still stand.

[BisonFan02]

To be fair UND was DII at that point. So his point does still stand.

That makes it better.

[Sycamore62]

so you get an invite to our conference then want us to be the ones to leave. why dont you just make your own conference?

[Laker]

Happening Hoops‏ @happeninghoops (https://twitter.com/happeninghoops) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/858036115210735617)More



MVC is done with visits. They went to Valpo, Murray State, Omaha, & Milwaukee. They will pick 1-3 of them & it will be done by "early May".

[BisonFan02]

Happening Hoops‏ @happeninghoops (https://twitter.com/happeninghoops) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/858036115210735617)More



MVC is done with visits. They went to Valpo, Murray State, Omaha, & Milwaukee. They will pick 1-3 of them & it will be done by "early May".


http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/07/laughter.gif

[clenz]

Happening Hoops‏ @happeninghoops (https://twitter.com/happeninghoops) 2m2 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/858036115210735617)More



MVC is done with visits. They went to Valpo, Murray State, Omaha, & Milwaukee. They will pick 1-3 of them & it will be done by "early May".

Omaha bombed their visit. They were likely a smoke screen to begin with but from all indications their visit went about as well as NoDak posting in the political forum or about the NDSU/Montana game 2 years ago.

[FargoBison]

How does a school bomb a site visit? First time I've heard that happening but really Omaha never made any sense for the MVC to begin with.

[Bisonator]

How does a school bomb a site visit? First time I've heard that happening but really Omaha never made any sense for the MVC to begin with.
Make them take cabs, eat in the cafeteria with the students and smoke domestic cigars.

[BisonFan02]

Make them take cabs, eat in the cafeteria with the students and smoke domestic cigars.

Bus them there.

[clenz]

How does a school bomb a site visit? First time I've heard that happening but really Omaha never made any sense for the MVC to begin with.
Normally when a conference comes on campus everything is like it's a game day. Valpo, MSU and UWM have all been very quiet about visits and if they even happened. However, people on campus at all three locations mentioned how the arenas were set up like it was game day. Floors down, court side seats down, scorers table out and set up, all lights on, scoreboards on, video boards on, locker rooms set up with uniforms like a game day, etc... Basically a facility version of dressed to the nines. Sources on those campuses said that was the best they'd seen their place look in a while. UNO did none of that apparently.

Also, turns our UNO's finances are REALLY bad. Significantly worse that discussed with the conference over teleconferences.

They basically showed they don't "get it".

[FargoBison]

Wow, I thought Omaha had their crap somewhat together, I knew their finances were a dumpster fire but I would have thought they would have had everything else squared away. I remember when the Summit came to Fargo, NDSU rolled out the red carpet for them and I think even the Dome was setup for basketball. Surprised Trev Alberts botched things that badly.

[Laker]

Also, turns our UNO's finances are REALLY bad. Significantly worse that discussed with the conference over teleconferences.

They basically showed they don't "get it".

Clenz-in your opinion- should the Red Mavs moved to D1? From what I have seen so far, I think that they should have stayed D2.

[clenz]

Clenz-in your opinion- should the Red Mavs moved to D1? From what I have seen so far, I think that they should have stayed D2.
I can't say it wasn't a good move. I don't know their motives or anything like that. You and I have discussed many times how badly they botched their entire move.

I can say I don't understand their move from where I sit. They are a hockey school and were forced to cut their two best programs to make the move. I don't see it as being a good move, but I'm not them. They were D1 hockey without moving.

They are in the shadow of UNL, Creighton, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, KC Royal baseball, etc...

I don't agree with the move, but apparently they thought they could do it.

[JSUSoutherner]

Not sure if it means anything but Murray State has finally confirmed they are 'considering' the move.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Even UNL has some financial issues so it is of no surprise there are serious issues at UNO.

[FargoBison]

I don't think Omaha was a good fit in D2, they were a big urban school and most of the regional D2 schools aren't like them.

They will be fine in the Summit League as long as they can weather their financial issues.

[Schism55]

Wow, I thought Omaha had their crap somewhat together, I knew their finances were a dumpster fire but I would have thought they would have had everything else squared away. I remember when the Summit came to Fargo, NDSU rolled out the red carpet for them and I think even the Dome was setup for basketball. Surprised Trev Alberts botched things that badly.
You should never be surprised when Trev horribly botches important matters at UNO xthumbsupx

[dgtw]

I think the MVC visited Omaha just to say they considered other options before taking the three they wanted.


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[Laker]

Basically says that the MVC should take Murray and Valpo but leave the 12th spot open for a possible "home run" pick. Now, what possible candidate school would be a "home run"?

http://www.news-leader.com/story/sports/college/msu/2017/04/30/valley-insider-odd-number-makes-perfect-sense/101073106/

[BisonFan02]

Basically says that the MVC should take Murray and Valpo but leave the 12th spot open for a possible "home run" pick. Now, what possible candidate school would be a "home run"?

http://www.news-leader.com/story/sports/college/msu/2017/04/30/valley-insider-odd-number-makes-perfect-sense/101073106/

Quite a few....the problem is they would say no or have already left.

[FargoBison]

Basically says that the MVC should take Murray and Valpo but leave the 12th spot open for a possible "home run" pick. Now, what possible candidate school would be a "home run"?

http://www.news-leader.com/story/sports/college/msu/2017/04/30/valley-insider-odd-number-makes-perfect-sense/101073106/

It is pretty clear the MVC covets St Louis and Belmont but neither of them think the same about the MVC.

I do agree that going to 11 is the best move they can make, no sense in adding a 12th just for the sake of having 12. A conference can function with 11 members and typically whoever you add is there forever so it is best to chose wisely.

[Thundar]

It is pretty clear the MVC covets St Louis and Belmont but neither of them think the same about the MVC.

I do agree that going to 11 is the best move they can make, no sense in adding a 12th just for the sake of having 12. A conference can function with 11 members and typically whoever you add is there forever so it is best to chose wisely.

LOL..this is the MVC your talking about, they are probably holding out for UMKC, Grand Canyon etc..

[BisonFan02]

LOL..this is the MVC your talking about

UMKC and UNO it is! #mediamarkets

[FargoBison]

Valpo and Murray are both solid adds. I think they might be getting it....now that I said that they'll make Omaha the 12th and undue whatever good they've just done.

That said the Valley has nobody to blame but themselves for where they are. They could have been proactive and added some really good programs if they would have been willing to go to 12 or more members a decade or so ago when the league was at its peak.

[dgtw]

If you think the MVC is going to screw it up, just wait until you see what the OVC does to replace Murray State.


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[Yote 53]

I don't think Omaha was a good fit in D2, they were a big urban school and most of the regional D2 schools aren't like them.

They will be fine in the Summit League as long as they can weather their financial issues.

Agree with this. They put together a good D2 football program that nobody in Omaha cared about. Football is too expensive to not get a return. D2 wrestling doesn't move the needle much. If they wanted to keep athletics it was either go big or go home. Getting some reputation as a metro basketball school was one of the few options they had. UNO is still very early to D1, give them some more time to find their way.

[Model Citizen]

They will be fine in the Summit League as long as they can weather their financial issues.

...or until the Horizon League comes calling?

[FargoBison]

...or until the Horizon League comes calling?

I don't get why they would move to the Horizon, more expense with little gain from it. This is especially true if Valpo and Milwaukee both leave.

[clenz]

I don't get why they would move to the Horizon, more expense with little gain from it. This is especially true if Valpo and Milwaukee both leave.
It gets real interesting if/when Horizon grabs IUPUI and PUFW. They are about to be smack dab middle of the geographic midpoint of the Horizon when they lose 2 of their western most members.

UNO may well be in the Summit for years to come, but what is the Summit going to continue to exist as? Who does The Summit add to replace those two?

All of a sudden schools like Chicago State and UMKC are going to look REAL good to Summit members at that point. Travel is going to cripple WIU if those two are replaced by schools like Grand Canyon, NMSU, Utah Valley, etc... Talk about broke Illinois schools - WIU is in much worse shape than SIU or Illinois State. If the OVC goes looking for a member to replace Murray, and wants a football member, WIU starts to look pretty good.

A merger of the WAC and Summit looks like a best case scenario. Then adding divisions basically split the WAC and Summit while putting them together. This saves travel, and creates a 14 team league (15 if WIU stays) for teams sitting in conferences with very low membership.

WAC East - AKA The I-29/90 Division
Chicago State
Missouri-Kansas City
North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Oral Roberts
Western Illinois (if they stay)

WAC West
Cal State Baskersfield
Denver
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State
Seattle
Texas Rio Grande Valley
Utah Valley


Play a double round robin in your division and 3 home 3 away from the other division.

That allows the MVFC to stay as it is and protects both the MVC and Summit League members from crumbling conferences. The only "hang up" for everyone is WIU. They aren't really a hang up, just more of a wild card with if they stay. Them staying is protection from Chicago State eventually closing.

[BisonFan02]

It gets real interesting if/when Horizon grabs IUPUI and PUFW. They are about to be smack dab middle of the geographic midpoint of the Horizon when they lose 2 of their western most members.

UNO may well be in the Summit for years to come, but what is the Summit going to continue to exist as? Who does The Summit add to replace those two?

All of a sudden schools like Chicago State and UMKC are going to look REAL good to Summit members at that point. Travel is going to cripple WIU if those two are replaced by schools like Grand Canyon, NMSU, Utah Valley, etc... Talk about broke Illinois schools - WIU is in much worse shape than SIU or Illinois State. If the OVC goes looking for a member to replace Murray, and wants a football member, WIU starts to look pretty good.

A merger of the WAC and Summit looks like a best case scenario. Then adding divisions basically split the WAC and Summit while putting them together. This saves travel, and creates a 14 team league (15 if WIU stays) for teams sitting in conferences with very low membership.

WAC East - AKA The I-29/90 Division
Chicago State
Missouri-Kansas City
North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Oral Roberts
Western Illinois (if they stay)

WAC West
Cal State Baskersfield
Denver
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State
Seattle
Texas Rio Grande Valley
Utah Valley


Play a double round robin in your division and 3 home 3 away from the other division.

That allows the MVFC to stay as it is and protects both the MVC and Summit League members from crumbling conferences. The only "hang up" for everyone is WIU. They aren't really a hang up, just more of a wild card with if they stay. Them staying is protection from Chicago State eventually closing.

no

[TTUEagles]

If you think the MVC is going to screw it up, just wait until you see what the OVC does to replace Murray State.
The OVC would probably add Lipscomb and Trevecca Nazarene University and fine every school for continuing to play football.

[clenz]

no
Great. Don't like it.

Your new reality is one of two, maybe, 3 things - when IUPUI and PUFW leave:

1. Raid the WAC and try to kill it. Meaning some combo of UMKC, Chicago State, NMSU, GCU, UTRGV. The WAC then folds into the Big West and WCC.

2. Try to start SL Football and raid the Big Sky of UNC, SUU, Weber State, etc... and likely lose WIU meaning you need a minimum of 4 football programs being needed.

3. Merge with the WAC

If/when the Indiana schools leave to the HL for both, Horizon for IUPUI and maybe WIU (leaving football in MVFC), etc... you're down to 7 (maybe 6) basketball schools. Remember 6 is the bare minimum, and would mean scheduling 20 OOC games.

You LOVE to try to stir the pot with MVC schools, but the reality is, the Summit is on a line about as strong as 8 lb test (if lucky) line.

[Model Citizen]

All of a sudden schools like Chicago State and UMKC are going to look REAL good to Summit members at that point.

Might be the time to remember that...

1. Chicago State was kicked out of the Summit (nee Mid-Con) a decade ago for having a pathetic excuse for an athletic department. I don't think much has changed in that regard.

2. UMKC walked away from the Summit League four years ago. Although they apparently want to reduce travel expenses, they aren't pining for a return to the Summit.

[Model Citizen]

The Horizon could grab an Omaha, plus UMKC,and/or Denver. If so, I believe both the Summit and WAC will continue as separate entities. The WAC is getting Cal Lutheran.

[dgtw]

The Horizon could grab an Omaha, plus UMKC,and/or Denver. If so, I believe both the Summit and WAC will continue as separate entities. The WAC is getting Cal Lutheran.

Baptist, not Lutheran.


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[SDFS]

Great. Don't like it.

Your new reality is one of two, maybe, 3 things - when IUPUI and PUFW leave:

1. Raid the WAC and try to kill it. Meaning some combo of UMKC, Chicago State, NMSU, GCU, UTRGV. The WAC then folds into the Big West and WCC.

2. Try to start SL Football and raid the Big Sky of UNC, SUU, Weber State, etc... and likely lose WIU meaning you need a minimum of 4 football programs being needed.

3. Merge with the WAC

If/when the Indiana schools leave to the HL for both, Horizon for IUPUI and maybe WIU (leaving football in MVFC), etc... you're down to 7 (maybe 6) basketball schools. Remember 6 is the bare minimum, and would mean scheduling 20 OOC games.

You LOVE to try to stir the pot with MVC schools, but the reality is, the Summit is on a line about as strong as 8 lb test (if lucky) line.

Conference call with Big Sky/Dakota schools and NMSU should be able to get something going...

[Model Citizen]

Yes, Baptist. Too much Valpo talk here lately...

[clenz]

That's a 20 team league. For a one bid tournament conference. That's a disaster.

The only hope would be that places like NAU, Sac State, PSU, etc... go elsewhere. That won't happen. Also, UND just left the Big Sky due to travel costs crippling them. Remaking that conference probably isn't high on their "want" scale.

[clenz]

Might be the time to remember that...

1. Chicago State was kicked out of the Summit (nee Mid-Con) a decade ago for having a pathetic excuse for an athletic department. I don't think much has changed in that regard.

2. UMKC walked away from the Summit League four years ago. Although they apparently want to reduce travel expenses, they aren't pining for a return to the Summit.

1. Sure. The Summit also wasn't riding on nearly as thin of ice a decade ago. Chicago State is in a very bad spot and only reason I include them is it's a full merge.

2. Travel costs in the Summit, with Indianas gone is now lower than the WAC. Plus a merge with them being in a Summit division cuts travel.

[Bisonator]

Summit will be just fine. I won't lose sleep if the IU schools hit the road, I'd trade UMKC back for either of those anyday. At the end of the day all these conferences are 1 bid leagues anyway. Including the MVC.

[dgtw]

If the MVC takes Valpo and Milwaukee, that drops them to eight members, only five of which sponsor baseball. So they would need to add somebody that plays baseball to keep their autobid. Chicago State certainly wouldn't be anybody's first choice, but they do have a baseball team. (UMKC does not have a baseball team).

[ST_Lawson]

All of a sudden schools like Chicago State and UMKC are going to look REAL good to Summit members at that point. Travel is going to cripple WIU if those two are replaced by schools like Grand Canyon, NMSU, Utah Valley, etc... Talk about broke Illinois schools - WIU is in much worse shape than SIU or Illinois State. If the OVC goes looking for a member to replace Murray, and wants a football member, WIU starts to look pretty good.

I agree with your point that regular travel that far west would be a severe problem for us, although I wouldn't say we're in as bad of shape as SIU is currently. They're supposed to be announcing a significant restructuring here in the next few months, so we'll see how that plays out. I do agree that ISU is doing about as well as any school outside of Champaign/Urbana can be at this point...decent money and static or slightly growing enrollment.

Personally, I'd prefer for us to stay with the MVFC and Summit, since we're a founding member of both and I like most of the teams we play against, but if reorganization starts to go crazy in this region...we gotta do what's best for our school.

[clenz]

Summit will be just fine. I won't lose sleep if the IU schools hit the road, I'd trade UMKC back for either of those anyday. At the end of the day all these conferences are 1 bid leagues anyway. Including the MVC.
So, you're okay with The Summit running at 8 teams?

[clenz]

What's funny, or maybe not (IDK) is that Valpo and Murray State both have men's tennis.

The MVC hasn't officially dropped mens tennis as a sport but there were only 4 members and 2 have announced plans to join The Summit

UMBC - who knows?
SIU - nothing known
Drake - Summit
Illinois State - Summit

It's entirely possible that the MVC responsors mens tennis next year with Drake, ISUr, SIU, Valpo and Murray State.

[WestCoastAggie]

What's funny, or maybe not (IDK) is that Valpo and Murray State both have men's tennis.

The MVC hasn't officially dropped mens tennis as a sport but there were only 4 members and 2 have announced plans to join The Summit

UMBC - who knows?
SIU - nothing known
Drake - Summit
Illinois State - Summit

It's entirely possible that the MVC responsors mens tennis next year with Drake, ISUr, SIU, Valpo and Murray State.

Having the Tennis team travel from Kentucky to Iowa and vice-versa could be expensive.

[344Johnson]

I don't really understand the recent "thing" XDSU fans have against the MVC and the teams in it..... or why some of these fans seem to think the Summit is on the verge of overtaking them lol

[clenz]

Having the Tennis team travel from Kentucky to Iowa and vice-versa could be expensive.
UMBC was in the MVC for the last few years.

The only time they ever played a match against MVC teams was the conference tournament.

Drake played 3 MVC matches before the conference championships - the last three matches before the championship. Drake went to California, New York, Michigan, Texas, Florida, etc... this season.

Valpo went to NC, Ohio multipe times, OK, CA, NY, WI, MI multiple times, 5 different FL cities, and TN.

Tennis is a sport, like golf, that is going to require travel around the country. It's why there are fewer and fewer every year.

[Laker]

So many dominoes that could fall here. WAC- UMKC & Chicago State would like to cut down on travel, especially as the conference adds Cal Baptist and is probably looking at UCSD. Will the Horizon invite PUFW and IUPUI? Who will the Horizon go after if Valpo & possibly Milwaukee goes? Does the MVC take one, two or three? Maybe we will find out this week. I can't see this being like the Big 12 who did nothing.

[clenz]

I've heard, and I could be wrong, that there will be AT LEAST 2. Omaha is done. It's if UWM's administrative issues are believed to be past them or continually on going.

There is a regularly scheduled MVC meeting on May 8th. That's voting day. That's getting late to make a move for this coming year, but I have to believe that anyone joining the conference will be doing so this year. I won't be shocked to hear more formal leaks coming out late this week.

I think a large part of why the UNO/UWM visits were leaked was to gauge fan/media reaction as part of the selection process. I know a good number of people sent e-mails to their schools admin giving an opinion on the schools and why they view the additions. It may not impact the schools vote, but it may raise questions and topics within the admins mind to help further vet the school. The reaction that UNO got, along with the rumors of the visit issues, likely nails their coffin.

I've heard some interesting things about PUFW potentially looking at a D2 move following the loss of the IU portion of their relationship. Should that be the move they want to take, the HL has an interesting decision. The two Indiana's would be logical home runs. If PUFW goes D2 the Horizon is left looking for a second to fill that last spot. I honestly don't know where the Horizon goes. Looking at the geographic issues they have the OVC or the western edge of the OVC/A10 to pull from. They aren't getting an A10 school, even if it would be a great fit - I'm looking at you Duquesne and St Bonny. The NEC would give them Robert Morris, but with the football piece I can't see that. This is where EIU and WIU could come in. OVC football could be in real trouble with their rule about no football affiliated. EIU would fit but the OVC issues are likely too large to overcome.

This is where I see WIU being a real wildcard. The travel is nicer. Football still has a home with no issues. Though they are the western edge, and with Valpo and UWM leaving they may be too far outside, but they fit as well as any other potential adds outside of the Indiana alphabets.

[JSUSoutherner]

I've heard, and I could be wrong, that there will be AT LEAST 2. Omaha is done. It's if UWM's administrative issues are believed to be past them or continually on going.

There is a regularly scheduled MVC meeting on May 8th. That's voting day. That's getting late to make a move for this coming year, but I have to believe that anyone joining the conference will be doing so this year. I won't be shocked to hear more formal leaks coming out late this week.

I think a large part of why the UNO/UWM visits were leaked was to gauge fan/media reaction as part of the selection process. I know a good number of people sent e-mails to their schools admin giving an opinion on the schools and why they view the additions. It may not impact the schools vote, but it may raise questions and topics within the admins mind to help further vet the school. The reaction that UNO got, along with the rumors of the visit issues, likely nails their coffin.

I've heard some interesting things about PUFW potentially looking at a D2 move following the loss of the IU portion of their relationship. Should that be the move they want to take, the HL has an interesting decision. The two Indiana's would be logical home runs. If PUFW goes D2 the Horizon is left looking for a second to fill that last spot. I honestly don't know where the Horizon goes. Looking at the geographic issues they have the OVC or the western edge of the OVC/A10 to pull from. They aren't getting an A10 school, even if it would be a great fit - I'm looking at you Duquesne and St Bonny. The NEC would give them Robert Morris, but with the football piece I can't see that. This is where EIU and WIU could come in. OVC football could be in real trouble with their rule about no football affiliated. EIU would fit but the OVC issues are likely too large to overcome.

This is where I see WIU being a real wildcard. The travel is nicer. Football still has a home with no issues. Though they are the western edge, and with Valpo and UWM leaving they may be too far outside, but they fit as well as any other potential adds outside of the Indiana alphabets.
So if they join the conference for the "coming year" would that affect football next season?

[FargoBison]

It gets real interesting if/when Horizon grabs IUPUI and PUFW. They are about to be smack dab middle of the geographic midpoint of the Horizon when they lose 2 of their western most members.

UNO may well be in the Summit for years to come, but what is the Summit going to continue to exist as? Who does The Summit add to replace those two?

All of a sudden schools like Chicago State and UMKC are going to look REAL good to Summit members at that point. Travel is going to cripple WIU if those two are replaced by schools like Grand Canyon, NMSU, Utah Valley, etc... Talk about broke Illinois schools - WIU is in much worse shape than SIU or Illinois State. If the OVC goes looking for a member to replace Murray, and wants a football member, WIU starts to look pretty good.

A merger of the WAC and Summit looks like a best case scenario. Then adding divisions basically split the WAC and Summit while putting them together. This saves travel, and creates a 14 team league (15 if WIU stays) for teams sitting in conferences with very low membership.

WAC East - AKA The I-29/90 Division
Chicago State
Missouri-Kansas City
North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Oral Roberts
Western Illinois (if they stay)

WAC West
Cal State Baskersfield
Denver
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State
Seattle
Texas Rio Grande Valley
Utah Valley


Play a double round robin in your division and 3 home 3 away from the other division.

That allows the MVFC to stay as it is and protects both the MVC and Summit League members from crumbling conferences. The only "hang up" for everyone is WIU. They aren't really a hang up, just more of a wild card with if they stay. Them staying is protection from Chicago State eventually closing.

NDSU would join the Big Sky before things came to that. The school has zero interesting in aligning itself with the bush league that is the WAC.

[clenz]

So if they join the conference for the "coming year" would that affect football next season?
No. Murray State and the OVC is a bit of an interesting situation.

UND is joining The Summit in 2018-2019 but not the MVFC until 2020-2021. This is due to the MVFC having league schedules and rotations set through 2019-2020. The Big Sky is willing to keep UND as an affiliate for those two years, and this year as a "lame duck" full member. UND is ineligible for auto-bids in any sport at this point. Correction, I'm not sure that UND isn't eligible for any AQ bids this coming year but I'm pretty sure that they aren't. I know for a fact they are not in football.

I'm sure there has been extensive talk, behind the scenes, regarding Murray State and football issues. An invite to the MVC is NOT an MVFC invite. That is a completely separate issue, and I've heard no rumblings there. Doesn't mean it isn't happening, but it's not public if it is. I've heard the OVC has had a long standing rule that if you are OVC in one sport, you are in all sports (assuming its an OVC sponsored sport) and there is no parking of football or other sports. It will be interesting to see if the OVC lets Murray State hang out in the OVC for 2018 and 2019 if a football move happens or if they loosen their rule on football as an affilaite membership. It would be beneficial for the OVC to do either of those and not for MSU to independent status out after this year. Giving them through 2020 means the OVC has time, playing a full schedule, to find another football member. Or it allows them to keep a full schedule and not have to reach for a school just because of football.

I also wonder how the buy out is affect if football doesn't move. It's $1,000,000 for MSU to leave the OVC. Is that reduced if MSU leaves football there?

IF the OVC forces MSU out after this year, does the MVFC make an exception and start the schedule reset in 2018. If they are doing that for MSU, why not move UND up 2 years and get them involved?

There's a lot of moving parts that we don't have answers for - especially regarding MSU. I would be shocked if plans aren't in place behind the doors of admins, but it would be interesting to hear those discussions/negotiations.

[clenz]

NDSU would join the Big Sky before things came to that. The school has zero interesting in aligning itself with the bush league that is the WAC.
Sounds really good, in theory.

Does the Big Sky want to go back to ND, right after getting rid of it? Does UND need to be associated with NDSU at this point, now that they've finally been reunited? NDSU and SDSU have always been a pair, does that continue? Is NDSU willing to leave SDSU? If SDSU is involved, does USD need to be involved? That goes into the Big Sky adding 4 schools. That puts them at 17 football schools. Actually, 18 because Idaho is coming back. That is literally every school west of Interstate 29 that plays football (minus San Diego). That gives them 16 basketball schools.

That is likely not something that Big Sky presidents are willing to go for.

[FargoBison]

Sounds really good, in theory.

Does the Big Sky want to go back to ND, right after getting rid of it? Does UND need to be associated with NDSU at this point, now that they've finally been reunited? NDSU and SDSU have always been a pair, does that continue? Is NDSU willing to leave SDSU? If SDSU is involved, does USD need to be involved? That goes into the Big Sky adding 4 schools. That puts them at 17 football schools. Actually, 18 because Idaho is coming back. That is literally every school west of Interstate 29 that plays football (minus San Diego). That gives them 16 basketball schools.

That is likely not something that Big Sky presidents are willing to go for.

NDSU isn't tied to any of the Dakota schools if the Summit falls apart, we'll leverage our football program if we have to. I'd guess in that scenario we would be taking UND with us. But I don't think it will come to that.

It appears the MVC is moving towards just adding two for now, doubt the Horizon takes more than one school unless something crazy happens. I have no idea why they would add a bunch of mediocre schools and go to 12, especially when it isn't like any of the schools we are talking about are going anywhere.

If the Summit loses one then perhaps UMKC is brought back into the fold. At that point the league would have really solid travel partners and UMKC would save some money.

[JSUSoutherner]

No. Murray State and the OVC is a bit of an interesting situation.

UND is joining The Summit in 2018-2019 but not the MVFC until 2020-2021. This is due to the MVFC having league schedules and rotations set through 2019-2020. The Big Sky is willing to keep UND as an affiliate for those two years, and this year as a "lame duck" full member. UND is ineligible for auto-bids in any sport at this point. Correction, I'm not sure that UND isn't eligible for any AQ bids this coming year but I'm pretty sure that they aren't. I know for a fact they are not in football.

I'm sure there has been extensive talk, behind the scenes, regarding Murray State and football issues. An invite to the MVC is NOT an MVFC invite. That is a completely separate issue, and I've heard no rumblings there. Doesn't mean it isn't happening, but it's not public if it is. I've heard the OVC has had a long standing rule that if you are OVC in one sport, you are in all sports (assuming its an OVC sponsored sport) and there is no parking of football or other sports. It will be interesting to see if the OVC lets Murray State hang out in the OVC for 2018 and 2019 if a football move happens or if they loosen their rule on football as an affilaite membership. It would be beneficial for the OVC to do either of those and not for MSU to independent status out after this year. Giving them through 2020 means the OVC has time, playing a full schedule, to find another football member. Or it allows them to keep a full schedule and not have to reach for a school just because of football.

I also wonder how the buy out is affect if football doesn't move. It's $1,000,000 for MSU to leave the OVC. Is that reduced if MSU leaves football there?

IF the OVC forces MSU out after this year, does the MVFC make an exception and start the schedule reset in 2018. If they are doing that for MSU, why not move UND up 2 years and get them involved?

There's a lot of moving parts that we don't have answers for - especially regarding MSU. I would be shocked if plans aren't in place behind the doors of admins, but it would be interesting to hear those discussions/negotiations.

Not sure about the "If you're in for one you're in for all" bit. Morehead State plays football in the Pioneer League.

[Laker]

Not sure about the "If you're in for one you're in for all" bit. Morehead State plays football in the Pioneer League.

Didn't Morehead used to be in the OVC for football? Do they have any desire to get back in for it?

[WestCoastAggie]

From what I am hearing, the we will have a MVC/OVC alignment. We should see early next week, once the invites are official and accepted.

I may need to make plans to fly to St Louis next March. #ArchMadness

[F'N Hawks]

Believe UND can win the Big Sky autobid this year still. But not in 2018-2019.

[uni88]

I don't really understand the recent "thing" XDSU fans have against the MVC and the teams in it..... or why some of these fans seem to think the Summit is on the verge of overtaking them lol
A handful of fans seem to have their rectums inflamed over a couple of things and they're reacting like spurned lovers.

A bunch of fans on an MVC message board were vociferous in arguing against the xDSU's being considered for the Valley. Getting upset over that is reminiscent of Redbird fans getting all upset about how critical other MVFC fans were of ISUr's handling of the Coprich situation. It's a message board, lighten up. I can remember when UNI was invited there were a lot of Valley fans who did not like it. They thought Missouri State (invited the year prior) was a good addition but UNI was not. They had a good argument, UNI did not have a strong men's BB program at the time but the conference saw something in them. Hindsight would say that the conference was right.

There also appears to be some anger directed at UNI which I can't quite figure out.

[nodak651]

It gets real interesting if/when Horizon grabs IUPUI and PUFW. They are about to be smack dab middle of the geographic midpoint of the Horizon when they lose 2 of their western most members.

UNO may well be in the Summit for years to come, but what is the Summit going to continue to exist as? Who does The Summit add to replace those two?

All of a sudden schools like Chicago State and UMKC are going to look REAL good to Summit members at that point. Travel is going to cripple WIU if those two are replaced by schools like Grand Canyon, NMSU, Utah Valley, etc... Talk about broke Illinois schools - WIU is in much worse shape than SIU or Illinois State. If the OVC goes looking for a member to replace Murray, and wants a football member, WIU starts to look pretty good.

A merger of the WAC and Summit looks like a best case scenario. Then adding divisions basically split the WAC and Summit while putting them together. This saves travel, and creates a 14 team league (15 if WIU stays) for teams sitting in conferences with very low membership.

WAC East - AKA The I-29/90 Division
Chicago State
Missouri-Kansas City
North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Oral Roberts
Western Illinois (if they stay)

WAC West
Cal State Baskersfield
Denver
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State
Seattle
Texas Rio Grande Valley
Utah Valley


Play a double round robin in your division and 3 home 3 away from the other division.

That allows the MVFC to stay as it is and protects both the MVC and Summit League members from crumbling conferences. The only "hang up" for everyone is WIU. They aren't really a hang up, just more of a wild card with if they stay. Them staying is protection from Chicago State eventually closing.

It is more likely the Dakotas, Denver, and Omaha would essentially start a new league with the Montanas, Idaho, EWU, and Weber before this abortion of a league is ever put together. And YES, that would be appealing for those shchools. This would be a better all sports conference than whatever leagues UNI will be left with. The Big Sky WILL break up do to it's size, and the top schools will eventually join the Dakotas, IMO. It's just a matter of time.

[Bisonoline]

A handful of fans seem to have their rectums inflamed over a couple of things and they're reacting like spurned lovers.

A bunch of fans on an MVC message board were vociferous in arguing against the xDSU's being considered for the Valley. Getting upset over that is reminiscent of Redbird fans getting all upset about how critical other MVFC fans were of ISUr's handling of the Coprich situation. It's a message board, lighten up. I can remember when UNI was invited there were a lot of Valley fans who did not like it. They thought Missouri State (invited the year prior) was a good addition but UNI was not. They had a good argument, UNI did not have a strong men's BB program at the time but the conference saw something in them. Hindsight would say that the conference was right.

There also appears to be some anger directed at UNI which I can't quite figure out.

I dont get the angst either. Its not like the valley is the conference it once was and I dont think the XDSUs put in a formal request. It was all fan talk.
I dont get what they thought they were protecting?

[Bisonator]

So, you're okay with The Summit running at 8 teams?

It's not ideal especially for scheduling but I'd be fine with it.

[clenz]

It's not ideal especially for scheduling but I'd be fine with it.
Where, by chance, are you going to get 18 OOC games for basketball? Remember, OOC games are done by new years and everyone else has to only schedule 10-12. Plus you'll want home games. You have just 6 conference home games. You'd need to find 8-10 OOC home games. Good luck with that.

[Yote 53]

I don't really understand the recent "thing" XDSU fans have against the MVC and the teams in it..... or why some of these fans seem to think the Summit is on the verge of overtaking them lol

I think it has to do with posters like Clenz who just seems to be giddy with delight about the plight of the Summit and the Dakota schools. His goading about "where you going to go, what you going to do" is rubbing some of us the wrong way. Then he comes up with some abortion of a conference merger between the Summit and the WAC and essentially says "be happy with that".

I agree with some of the Bison fans. The Dakota schools are going to get pushed into a corner on this conference situation and will come out swinging. I could definitely see the "Big North" coming to life with the Dakotas, Montanas, Idahos, EWU, Denver. What UNI fans fail to understand is that the Dakota schools are the most important schools in their states, unlike UNI, who many in Iowa wouldn't mind if they just dropped athletics. U.S. Senators, Congressman, Governors start getting involved when the state schools start getting harmed. The Dakotas will end up fine and will probably be the instrument that starts off another chain reaction of conference shuffling below the P5 level.

[344Johnson]

NDSU isn't tied to any of the Dakota schools if the Summit falls apart, we'll leverage our football program if we have to.

How does an FCS team leverage a football team? This isn't a college football blueblood or something.

[Yote 53]

How does an FCS team leverage a football team? This isn't a college football blueblood or something.

There are schools that aspire to play a high level of football, even at the FCS level. They will gravitate towards one another eventually.

[Bisonator]

Where, by chance, are you going to get 18 OOC games for basketball? Remember, OOC games are done by new years and everyone else has to only schedule 10-12. Plus you'll want home games. You have just 6 conference home games. You'd need to find 8-10 OOC home games. Good luck with that.
It's not my problem but thanks for your concern. xcoffeex

[344Johnson]

There are schools that aspire to play a high level of football, even at the FCS level. They will gravitate towards one another eventually.

I won't hold my breath.

[Laker]

Mark Adams‏ @EnthusiAdams (https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams) 10m10 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859433781803069440)More



Source confirms @valpoathletics (https://twitter.com/valpoathletics) likely to replace Wichita St as 10th member of The Valley. Valpo probable only addition. No vote/invite yet.

[FargoBison]

How does an FCS team leverage a football team? This isn't a college football blueblood or something.

Football centric conferences will value strong football programs at any level.

[FargoBison]

Mark Adams‏ @EnthusiAdams (https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams) 10m10 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859433781803069440)More



Source confirms @valpoathletics (https://twitter.com/valpoathletics) likely to replace Wichita St as 10th member of The Valley. Valpo probable only addition. No vote/invite yet.


Wow, kind of a blow to Murray since they seemed to be the most public about it all.

Kind of a small-time move the Valley but that doesn't shock me.

[Laker]

Wow, kind of a blow to Murray since they seemed to be the most public about it all.

Kind of a small-time move the Valley but that doesn't shock me.

I would think that they will take two- Murray & Valpo. But who knows?

[BisonFan02]

Wow, kind of a blow to Murray since they seemed to be the most public about it all.

Kind of a small-time move the Valley but that doesn't shock me.

Me neither. Murray State probably has too much football. :D
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https://media.giphy.com/media/4jHXZ9aIKFaUM/giphy.gif

[FargoBison]

Me neither. Murray State probably has too much football. :D

The non-football schools are going to destroy that league if Murray is too much football for them.

[dgtw]

I would think that they will take two- Murray & Valpo. But who knows?

Maybe they decided an eleven team league wouldn't work and adding a third just to get to an even number wasn't worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BisonFan02]

Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea (http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4679&start=480#p106177) http://www.mvcfans.com/styles/ProSilverSE/imageset/icon_post_target.gif (http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?p=106177#p106177)by BCPanther (http://www.mvcfans.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=147) » May 1st, 2017, 7:16 pm
There aren't words to describe how stupid turning down the Valley because of FCS football would be.

If I had my way, UNI would drop football tomorrow and we've been historically very good.



MVCfans is a fun read...guilty pleasure. xlolx

[BisonFan02]

Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea (http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4679&start=480#p106192)

http://www.mvcfans.com/styles/ProSilverSE/imageset/icon_post_target.gif (http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?p=106192#p106192)by TheAsianSensation (http://www.mvcfans.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=12599) » May 1st, 2017, 9:15 pm
I think the football schedules can be rigged to have them miss the Dakotas as much as possible. MuSt doesn't want to particularly play them, and frankly I'm betting the likes of NDSU would rather skip them as well.

Saying that MuSt is willing to be a constant doormat in the MVCF might be taking it too far, but I get the sense they won't care too much if that ends up happening.







If I was a MVC school, I wouldn't want to play us either. xlolx

[dgtw]

Didn't Morehead used to be in the OVC for football? Do they have any desire to get back in for it?

I don't know their entire history, but according to Wikipedia, they have been in the OVC since 1948 and the Pioneer since 2001. So I guess they were OVC football at one point.

I am sure some there want to play big boy football but I have no idea if there is a real push to add scholarships.

Austin Peay left to go independent in the 1990s and were in the Pioneer for a while but rejoined the OVC a few years ago.

If we got Kennesaw to replace Murray, that would be great. Their deal with the Big South runs through 2018.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[344Johnson]

Football centric conferences will value strong football programs at any level.

Is there such a thing at the FCS level? Football seems to mostly be a hobby at the FCS level, or used as a vehicle to get to the FBS for the most part.

I can think of a few football schools, but conferences... not sure.

[Model Citizen]

The Valpo media seems to think their school will be the only one added to the MVC. ?

[melloware13]

I don't know their entire history, but according to Wikipedia, they have been in the OVC since 1948 and the Pioneer since 2001. So I guess they were OVC football at one point.

I am sure some there want to play big boy football but I have no idea if there is a real push to add scholarships.

Austin Peay left to go independent in the 1990s and were in the Pioneer for a while but rejoined the OVC a few years ago.

If we got Kennesaw to replace Murray, that would be great. Their deal with the Big South runs through 2018.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kennesaw, being in the A-Sun, is secure in the Big South for football as far as I can tell.

[Thundar]

The non-football schools are going to destroy that league if Murray is too much football for them.

Going to??

[jacksfan29]

It's not my problem but thanks for your concern. xcoffeex

You have to understand his motivation to understand his posts. He dreams of the Summit collapsing. It seems to be his only need in life and it seems to be out of fear that the much younger to D1 Dakota schools will, or have already surpassed UNI. Besides, he isn't long out of school. It will take him a couple decades of maturing before he begins to understand how the big world works.

Oh, plus the NDSU championships outrage him. He seems to barely be able to contain his need for your school, and in turn SDSU to fail.

[jacksfan29]

Pretty sure BC Panther is the same guy who keeps posting on the UNI board that the MWC is a distinct possibility for UNI. Yep, the Mountain West is going to invite... the University of Northern Iowa.


Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea (http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4679&start=480#p106177)

http://www.mvcfans.com/styles/ProSilverSE/imageset/icon_post_target.gif (http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?p=106177#p106177)by BCPanther (http://www.mvcfans.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=147) » May 1st, 2017, 7:16 pm
There aren't words to describe how stupid turning down the Valley because of FCS football would be.

If I had my way, UNI would drop football tomorrow and we've been historically very good.



MVCfans is a fun read...guilty pleasure. xlolx

[JSUSoutherner]

Pretty sure BC Panther is the same guy who keeps posting on the UNI board that the MWC is a distinct possibility for UNI. Yep, the Mountain West is going to invite... the University of Northern Iowa.
Because Iowa is known for both their mountains and their westness.

[citdog]

Because Iowa is known for both their mountains and their westness.

And Alabama for it's Ohio Valley...

[Thundar]

And Alabama for it's Ohio Valley...

or Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky for the Missouri Valley?

[PantherRob82]

I think it has to do with posters like Clenz who just seems to be giddy with delight about the plight of the Summit and the Dakota schools. His goading about "where you going to go, what you going to do" is rubbing some of us the wrong way. Then he comes up with some abortion of a conference merger between the Summit and the WAC and essentially says "be happy with that".

I agree with some of the Bison fans. The Dakota schools are going to get pushed into a corner on this conference situation and will come out swinging. I could definitely see the "Big North" coming to life with the Dakotas, Montanas, Idahos, EWU, Denver. What UNI fans fail to understand is that the Dakota schools are the most important schools in their states, unlike UNI, who many in Iowa wouldn't mind if they just dropped athletics. U.S. Senators, Congressman, Governors start getting involved when the state schools start getting harmed. The Dakotas will end up fine and will probably be the instrument that starts off another chain reaction of conference shuffling below the P5 level.

You have posted a lot of stupid stuff, but this might take the cake. You can search this board or Panther Nation and find plenty of conversation from UNI fans about the Dakota's being the big schools in their state compared to UNI being the third fiddle. It's like your giant erection for arguing with Clenz gets in the way of thought.

[uni88]

I think it has to do with posters like Clenz who just seems to be giddy with delight about the plight of the Summit and the Dakota schools. His goading about "where you going to go, what you going to do" is rubbing some of us the wrong way. Then he comes up with some abortion of a conference merger between the Summit and the WAC and essentially says "be happy with that".

I agree with some of the Bison fans. The Dakota schools are going to get pushed into a corner on this conference situation and will come out swinging. I could definitely see the "Big North" coming to life with the Dakotas, Montanas, Idahos, EWU, Denver. What UNI fans fail to understand is that the Dakota schools are the most important schools in their states, unlike UNI, who many in Iowa wouldn't mind if they just dropped athletics. U.S. Senators, Congressman, Governors start getting involved when the state schools start getting harmed. The Dakotas will end up fine and will probably be the instrument that starts off another chain reaction of conference shuffling below the P5 level.

What is it about clenz that pisses so many people off? He does tons of research and uses it to form his opinions and analysis. You can disagree with those opinions and analysis but you don't have to hate him for it.

And UNI fans know that we're the third wheel when it comes to funding and priorities with the Iowa Board of Regents. I not only admit it, I'm damn proud of what we've accomplished academically and athletically despite the reality that we're on the short end for funding.

I also wouldn't be opposed to having the xDSU's in the MVC. They're solid programs with state support and are trending in the right direction. I and I would think many UNI fans aren't afraid of that competition but would welcome it because it would push us to maintain and improve on our excellence. My guess is that any resistance to the xDSU's is coming from other schools (who fear the competition and cost of travel) a lot more than it is from UNI so you should direct your fatal attraction spurned lover schtick somewhere else.

You're rants about UNI sound a lot like a Hawkeye fan who is jealous of UNI's success and believe that Iowa would be better if UNI wasn't D1. Own your results and stop looking for scapegoats.

[SDFS]

No. Murray State and the OVC is a bit of an interesting situation.

UND is joining The Summit in 2018-2019 but not the MVFC until 2020-2021. This is due to the MVFC having league schedules and rotations set through 2019-2020. The Big Sky is willing to keep UND as an affiliate for those two years, and this year as a "lame duck" full member. UND is ineligible for auto-bids in any sport at this point. Correction, I'm not sure that UND isn't eligible for any AQ bids this coming year but I'm pretty sure that they aren't. I know for a fact they are not in football.

I'm sure there has been extensive talk, behind the scenes, regarding Murray State and football issues. An invite to the MVC is NOT an MVFC invite. That is a completely separate issue, and I've heard no rumblings there. Doesn't mean it isn't happening, but it's not public if it is. I've heard the OVC has had a long standing rule that if you are OVC in one sport, you are in all sports (assuming its an OVC sponsored sport) and there is no parking of football or other sports. It will be interesting to see if the OVC lets Murray State hang out in the OVC for 2018 and 2019 if a football move happens or if they loosen their rule on football as an affilaite membership. It would be beneficial for the OVC to do either of those and not for MSU to independent status out after this year. Giving them through 2020 means the OVC has time, playing a full schedule, to find another football member. Or it allows them to keep a full schedule and not have to reach for a school just because of football.

I also wonder how the buy out is affect if football doesn't move. It's $1,000,000 for MSU to leave the OVC. Is that reduced if MSU leaves football there?

IF the OVC forces MSU out after this year, does the MVFC make an exception and start the schedule reset in 2018. If they are doing that for MSU, why not move UND up 2 years and get them involved?

There's a lot of moving parts that we don't have answers for - especially regarding MSU. I would be shocked if plans aren't in place behind the doors of admins, but it would be interesting to hear those discussions/negotiations.

Clenz, I just wanted to get your thoughts on the MVC going forward without CU and WSU:

1) NCAA Units - with CU* and WSU the MVC had a unit count of 20 in 2017 ($5.3 m) and projects to 18 in 2018 ($4.7 m). How big of a drop do you expect to see by say - 2020? Around ($2.0 m to $2.5 m) annually. NOTE: Implied fixed payout at 2017 rate of $265 k)

2) How big of a drop do you see in the Arch Madness - in 2013 I think the totals were 71,000 with an avg of 14,000 and in 2016 it was 50,000 and 10,000... does it go to 40,000 and an avg of 8,000?

3) Overall conference attendance - in 2013 the MVC had 1.2 million and an avg of 7,200 and in 2016 it was 800,000 and an avg of 5,000... does it go to 700,000 and an avg of 4,300..

All of this points to a significant drop in money from NCAA and Arch Madness. Plus, the regular season gate may hold steady for some conference teams. But, the overall conference regular season gate is absolutely going to drop. Interested in getting your thoughts on the new normal of MVC. How much trouble are MVC schools going to have adjusting to the loses in revenue.

The ultimate hit would be CBS pulling the prime weekend coverage of Arch Madness.. How strong does the MVC look without a CU or WSU to push the needle?

[BisonFan02]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/shockwaves/article147338654.html

This tells the whole story right here....the beat writers predominate attitude is why I have a hard time giving a **** about the MVC and their feelings. xlolx

[Cocky]

or Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky for the Missouri Valley?
or the Big Ten for its ten teams?

[BisonFan02]

or the Big Ten for its ten teams?

Well....it is just the B1G now kinda. xlolx

[Cocky]

Well....it is just the B1G now kinda. xlolx

Louisville Kentucky doesnt touch the Atlantic Coast
Missouri isnt in the Southeast.
Heck are there any conference who name makes sense other than CUSA and the MAC?

[clenz]

CUSA is the best name of any, followed by the MAC.

CUSA - conference USA. A conference that spans the US.

Mid America Conference. I don't considered Buffalo, Michigan and Ohio and Midwest but I guess it's mostly mid America.

Look at the SWAC. SouthWEST Athletic Conference. What the **** is SW about Georgia, Louisana, Arkansas and Alabama?

The MVC is based in St Louis. Right where the Missouri meets the Mississippi. It's a great name. It's bee the MVC for 110 years with programs like Louisville, Cinci, NMSU, Tulsa, West Texas, etc....

[BisonFan02]

CUSA is the best name of any, followed by the MAC.

CUSA - conference USA. A conference that spans the US.

Mid America Conference. I don't considered Buffalo, Michigan and Ohio and Midwest but I guess it's mostly mid America.

Look at the SWAC. SouthWEST Athletic Conference. What the **** is SW about Georgia, Louisana, Arkansas and Alabama?

The MVC is based in St Louis. Right where the Missouri meets the Mississippi. It's a great name. It's bee the MVC for 110 years with programs like Louisville, Cinci, NMSU, Tulsa, West Texas, etc....

We could call the Dakota portion of the MVFC the "Roughrider" division after Teddy and the condom brand, but that would be inaccurate too...since we've been banging the Valley rawdog for years now. :D

[Thundar]

or the Big Ten for its ten teams?

lol...tons of examples

[walliver]

Louisville Kentucky doesnt touch the Atlantic Coast
Missouri isnt in the Southeast.
Heck are there any conference who name makes sense other than CUSA and the MAC?

The Southern Conference has no teams outside the confederacy.

[Yote 53]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/shockwaves/article147338654.html

This tells the whole story right here....the beat writers predominate attitude is why I have a hard time giving a **** about the MVC and their feelings. xlolx

They sure hate football.

[Model Citizen]

Look at the SWAC. SouthWEST Athletic Conference. What the **** is SW about Georgia, Louisana, Arkansas and Alabama?

Some archaic conference names are continued for the sake of tradition.

The original "Southwest" was Texas. And the SWAC was originally based around Houston...never mind that the conference was chartered a couple years after Arizona statehood.

Similarly, Northwestern University was named after the Northwest Territory, which no longer existed by the time NU opened its doors.

[Laker]

Similarly, Northwestern University was named after the Northwest Territory, which no longer existed by the time NU opened its doors.

I wonder why they called it that instead of Northwest University. That would have made it much easier to fit onto uniforms.

[Laker]

The Big Ten was started in 1896 as the Intercollegiate Conference Athletic Association. The common name was the Western Conference. In 1899 they were first called the Big Nine. Nebraska wanted in as early as 1900 but were denied. It was first called the Big Ten when Michigan rejoined in 1917. It went back to the Big Nine after Chicago dropped football. When Michigan State joined in 1949 it went back to being the Big Ten, but it didn't change from the original name until 1987.

[clenz]

FBS Conferences

American Conference:
-Suggests a conference across America.
-Teams in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Florida, Tennessee, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut
-9/10 on naming scale. Loses a point for not having a team in the Rockies, upper midwest or Pacific region. Given lack of "uncommitted" teams in those regions that fit the conference insituational structure only one point is lost.

Atlantic Coast Conference:
-Suggest teams "touch" the Atlantic Coast.
-Teams in Indiana, Kentucky, far western PA, far NW Georgia, far NW Florida, and honestly, only 1 school even kind of coastal in their location.
-7.5/10 on naming scale. Probably used to be higher. Yes, almost all schools are in states that are coastal, but only Boston College has a change to really be called "Coastal". Most schools huge the Appalachians, or west of them.

Big 10 Conference:
-Suggests 10 teams are in the conference, and they are big schools
-Conference hasn't had 10 teams in 30 plus years, and it's only getting bigger. Schools are large universities
-2/10 on naming scale

Big 12 Conference:
-Suggests 12 teams are in the conference, and they are big schools
-Conference hasn't had 12 teams in years, and can't decide on if it wants to go back to 12. Schools are large universities
-3.5/10 on naming scale and dropping. Not as far off on name as B10, but the constant identity crisis is causing a rapid drop in naming score

Conference USA:
- Much like the AAC, suggest teams across America. It's the Conference of the United States
-Teams across almost all of the Mid-Atlantic and Southeastern/Mid-South region, but nothing in Upper Atlantic, Upper Midwest, Rockies, Southwest or Pacific areas
-8.5 on name scale as it allows for geographic football to always chance, membership number to always change, and never technically be wrong.

Mid-American Conference:
-Suggests that teams are in the middle of America
-Teams from Illinois to western New York. I don't consider that middle America, on the eastern side of the conferece, but not horrid
-8.75/10 on naming scale. If it wasn't already taken the "Great Lakes Conference" would be a perfect 10

Mountain West Conference:
-Suggest teams are in the mountain region in the western US.
-Teams in Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Idaho, Nevada and CA. UN-Reno and the California schools really stretch and otherwise perfect name. Though I guess you could say the name could read "Mountain and West Conference".
-7/10 on naming scale

Pac 12 Conference:
-Suggest 12 schools in the Pacific region
-Utah and Colorado are, for sure, not Pacific region. Calling Arizona Pacific is a bit of a stretch as well. The other 8 nail the the name, and bonus points for having a # in the name and adjusting the number to fit the membership
-8/10 on naming scale - the adjusting of the number mostly makes up for Colorado, Utah and Arizona schools

Southeastern Conference:
-Suggests schools are in the SE United States
-Was a pretty accurate name until TAMU and Mizzou joined..mostly Mizzou - even though Arkansas is a stretch as well.
-7.75/10 on naming scale - would be a 8.5 if not for Mizzou

Sun Belt Conference:
-Suggests all schools fall in the Sun Belt
-All but 1 full member fall into the Sun Belt and there is some discrepancy on if North Carolina is considered sun belt or snow belt. Dropping Idaho makes big score change
-10/10 name. Can't argue with a conference that claims to represent the sun belt and has every school in the sun belt.



FCS Conferences

Big Sky:
-Suggests all members are in the Big Sky area of the US
-About half the conference, maybe less, actually fall in the Big Sky region (eastern WA, eastern OR, ID, MT, WY, western SD, western ND)
-7/10 on naming scale. Most don't actually know what the Big Sky region actually is, and out west I'd say most of it could be called Big Sky

Big South:
-Suggests that the conference is in the south, is big/has big schools
-Conference has small membership and small universities. It's also more mid-atlantic than south for me, though a name like that was already taken with the MEAC
-5/10 on naming scale. Could be lower, could be higher. Depends on how picky one wants to be

Colonial Athletic Association:
-Suggests schools are in the original colonies
- All schools are in original colonies
-10/10 on the name. Nothing more to say really.

Ivy League:
-Suggests....nothing?
-Conference never changes?
-10/10 on naming scale, I guess?

Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference:
-Suggests schools are in the mid-Atlantic regions of the US.
-Schools mostly in mid-Atlantic, though I don't consider Georgia or Florida mid-Atlantic it's not a massive ding
-8/10 on naming scale

Missouri Valley Football Conference:
-Suggests schools are in the Missouri Valley region
-There is just two schools in the Missouri River Valley. However, conference is headquartered in the Missouri River valley
-5/10 on name scale. Some schools are in it, most aren't, but headquartered in it

Northeast Conference:
-Suggests all schools in Northeast
-All schools are what would be considered northeast
-10/10 on naming scale

Ohio Valley Conference:
-Suggest schools are in the Ohio River Valley
-It's kind of mostly accurate
-6.5/10 on naming scale

Patriot League:
-Not sure what it suggests. I'm guess a play on the revlotuion - thus the NY/MA/PA area
-Teams in that area
-10/10 on naming scale

Pioneer Football League:
-Pioneers were people that traveled across the country
-Conference stretches across the country
-10/10 on naming scale...I guess

Southern Conference:
-Suggests teams are in the southern US
-Teams are tightly compacted in the southern US
-10/10 on naming scale

Southland Conference:
-Suggests teams in the south? There is no southland region in the US
-Teams fit this made up region in the south
-9.5/10 on naming scale. Half point lost for a fake region

Southwestern Athletic Conference:
-Suggest teams are in the Southwest
-Almost all teams are in the Southeast - with some eastern TX teams
-1/10 on naming scale.

[Yote 53]

Missouri Valley Football Conference:
-Suggests schools are in the Missouri Valley region
-There is just two schools in the Missouri River Valley. However, conference is headquartered in the Missouri River valley
-5/10 on name scale. Some schools are in it, most aren't, but headquartered in it

There are 6 MVFC schools residing in states that the Missouri River touches, UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNI, MSU. None of the schools actually reside in the Missouri River Valley. USD is the closest as it sits on the bluff overlooking the Missouri River. There are even huge concrete letters on the Missouri River bluff on the South Dakota side that spell out U-S-D.

[DFW HOYA]

Ivy League:
-Suggests....nothing?
-Conference never changes?
-10/10 on naming scale, I guess?


There's a lot of urban legend around that name. It's not about the so-called "IV" league (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia) of the early 1900's. In fact, it was in wide usage 20 years before the conference even got together (1953).




Patriot League:
-Not sure what it suggests. I'm guess a play on the revolution - thus the NY/MA/PA area


The PL lost out when the CAA called them over their original name: "The Colonial League".

[clenz]

Missouri Valley Football Conference:
-Suggests schools are in the Missouri Valley region
-There is just two schools in the Missouri River Valley. However, conference is headquartered in the Missouri River valley
-5/10 on name scale. Some schools are in it, most aren't, but headquartered in it

There are 6 MVFC schools residing in states that the Missouri River touches, UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, UNI, MSU. None of the schools actually reside in the Missouri River Valley. USD is the closest as it sits on the bluff overlooking the Missouri River. There are even huge concrete letters on the Missouri River bluff on the South Dakota side that spell out U-S-D.
Right, the states touch it but almost none of the schools are in it. Technically USD and SDSU do fall into the "valley" of it as they fall inside the drainage area. Missouri State might be in it too. They are right on the edge of that and the Arkansas Red-White Valley

http://waferx.montana.edu/documents/Missouririverecoregions.jpg


UNI, ISU and SIU fall in the Mississippi River Valley.
ISUb is in the Ohio Valley
NDSU and UND don't fall in any of them. They fall in the Agassiz glacial area.

[Yote 53]

I was thinking the actual valley, as in bluff-to-bluff. Not the drainage basin.

[Model Citizen]

Pioneer Football League:
-Pioneers were people that traveled across the country
-Conference stretches across the country
-10/10 on naming scale...I guess

The origin of the PFL's name is explained on its website.

From the league’s inception it has been a proponent of the creation of a non-scholarship football classification within Division I and adopted the moniker of Pioneer based on the intent to become the first league in that new division.

However, a separate classification hasn't been anyone's goal for at least 10 years (except for Patty V. ). In addition, the league never enforced its brand copyright...so today, the Pioneer Football League may be best known as a youth league in NYC.

0/10 on the naming

[Laker]

I was thinking the actual valley, as in bluff-to-bluff. Not the drainage basin.

I was hoping for the drainage basin, so on the off chance that if MSU-Mankato ever went FCS that they could be included. And not that Mankato is in that basin- but a small part of the state is. Highly unlikely but........:D

[dbackjon]

Louisville Kentucky doesnt touch the Atlantic Coast
Missouri isnt in the Southeast.
Heck are there any conference who name makes sense other than CUSA and the MAC?


Big Sky :)

What the hell is the Summit? Or the Horizon? Both sound like WNBA teams

[uni88]

Clenz, how do you define Midwest? No Ohio, Michigan or Kansas?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[clenz]

Clenz, how do you define Midwest? No Ohio, Michigan or Kansas?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
On CS a few years back there was thread about what we call/consider the different regions. I'll see if I can find the map I made for it.

[Yote 53]

Clenz, how do you define Midwest? No Ohio, Michigan or Kansas?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Ohio and Michigan are in the Midwest. Kansas is a Plains State.

Midwest includes Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota

Plains States includes Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota but I know all of the people on the eastern sides Kansas to North Dakota consider themselves Midwest. I suppose the Plains States could be considered a subset of the Midwest.

Missouri could be in the Midwest or the South depending on where you are at in the state. During the Civil War it was claimed by both sides. Missouri has always been torn about where they belong.

Pennsylvania is in the Northeast

[clenz]

Regions aren't determined by state boarders

[Yote 53]

Then we can give North Dakota to Canada? Because, as you know, there is only one true Dakota and it is South Dakota.

[clenz]

Then we can give North Dakota to Canada? Because, as you know, there is only one true Dakota and it is South Dakota.
North Dakota, technically, isn't a state


http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/07/14/because-of-constitution-error-north-dakota-is-not-a-state-and-never-has-been/

A constitutional error recently discovered shows that North Dakota has never technically fit the requirements for statehood.
John Rolczynski, an 82-year old Grand Forks resident, discovered the error in 1995 and has been been campaigning to fix North Dakota’s constitution ever since. The problem lies in the state constitution’s omission in requiring the governor and other top officials to take an oath of office. In failing to require these oaths, North Dakota’s constitution is at odds with federal requirements established by Article VI of the U.S. Constitution, therefore making statehood illegitimate.


I think they've maybe fixed the issue since then...but..yeah. ND wasn't a state until 2011 at the earliest.

[TheKingpin28]

Then we can give North Dakota to Canada? Because, as you know, there is only one true Dakota and it is South Dakota.

Why does the corn in North Dakota lead south, cause Canada blows and south dakota sucks.

[clenz]

Big Sky :)

What the hell is the Summit? Or the Horizon? Both sound like WNBA teams
Over half of the Big Sky isn't in the big sky region.

[Sycamore62]

you can take your basketball conference talk and get the hell out of here



ya I know...

[dbackjon]

Over half of the Big Sky isn't in the big sky region.



Anywhere in the West with wide open spaces is Big Sky. So scratch Sac and Portland.

[clenz]

Anywhere in the West with wide open spaces is Big Sky. So scratch Sac and Portland.
What's considered west?
Why only in the west?
The vast majority of the plains states fit that critter.

[dbackjon]

What's considered west?
Why only in the west?
The vast majority of the plains states fit that critter.


You are in Iowa. Flatlanders have no say :)

[clenz]

You are in Iowa. Flatlanders have no say :)
We have more open sky than Arizona.

[dbackjon]

We have more open sky than Arizona.


Not really - not the open BLUE skies. Not brown, gray cloudy crap in the Midwest.

[clenz]

Not really - not the open BLUE skies. Not brown, gray cloudy crap in the Midwest.
It's not the Big BLUE Sky Conference...which isn't fitting either. I've been to Colorado, Utah and Montana. They are just as dank and cloudy as Iowa is most of the year.

Brown? Iowa has more color than western Montana, most of CO, UT, ID, etc... You ever looked at a physical map? You live in Arizona. The only green out there is grass brought in from other parts of the country, astro turf and cacti


http://geology.com/world/usa-physical.jpg


Try again.

[BisonTru]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24943&stc=1

/Discussion xcoolx

[clenz]

Right, here's how I view the US. The dots I put in one area show parts that I can/do consider as overlap and could be a part of either area. I didn't do that in all areas as it would get confusing. However, in general this is how I split the US into regions

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24944&stc=1
Pink - Northeast
Light blue - mid Atlantic
Green - southeast
mid blue - great lakes
red - upper midwest/plains
yellow - southwest
purple - big sky/western plains
dark blue - Rockies
teal - desert
maroon - pacific

[dbackjon]

It's not the Big BLUE Sky Conference...which isn't fitting either. I've been to Colorado, Utah and Montana. They are just as dank and cloudy as Iowa is most of the year.

Brown? Iowa has more color than western Montana, most of CO, UT, ID, etc... You ever looked at a physical map? You live in Arizona. The only green out there is grass brought in from other parts of the country, astro turf and cacti


http://geology.com/world/usa-physical.jpg


Try again.

LOL if you think that Montana, etc are as dark and gloomy as Iowa.


Plenty of Green in Arizona. Ever been to Flagstaff? Nope.

- - - Updated - - -


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24943&stc=1

/Discussion xcoolx


So Canada's nutsack?

[TheKingpin28]

Right, here's how I view the US. The dots I put in one area show parts that I can/do consider as overlap and could be a part of either area. I didn't do that in all areas as it would get confusing. However, in general this is how I split the US into regions

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24944&stc=1
Pink - Northeast
Light blue - mid Atlantic
Green - southeast
mid blue - great lakes
red - upper midwest/plains
yellow - southwest
purple - big sky/western plains
dark blue - Rockies
teal - desert
maroon - pacific

Utah should be their own color for "just a little different than the rest of us"

[GodHelpTheBears]

Right, here's how I view the US. The dots I put in one area show parts that I can/do consider as overlap and could be a part of either area. I didn't do that in all areas as it would get confusing. However, in general this is how I split the US into regions

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24944&stc=1
Pink - Northeast
Light blue - mid Atlantic
Green - southeast
mid blue - great lakes
red - upper midwest/plains
yellow - southwest
purple - big sky/western plains
dark blue - Rockies
teal - desert
maroon - pacific

I've often mentioned how the Ozarks are so damn similar to New Mexico. You can hardly tell them apart

[clenz]

I've often mentioned how the Ozarks are so damn similar to New Mexico. You can hardly tell them apart

You do realize that's not based on climate, right? It's based on geographic names for where I CK sider places.

[GodHelpTheBears]

You do realize that's not based on climate, right? It's based on geographic names for where I CK sider places.

Fair enough...I do have a lot of family in New Mexico :D

[clenz]

LOL if you think that Montana, etc are as dark and gloomy as Iowa.


Plenty of Green in Arizona. Ever been to Flagstaff? Nope.

- - - Updated - - -




So Canada's nutsack?

Missoula averages 159 sunny days per year
Cedar Falls averages 192 sunny days per year

Missoula averages 42 inches of snow per year
Cedar Falls averages 35 inches of snow per year

Next fake narrative attempt

[dbackjon]

Missoula averages 159 sunny days per year
Cedar Falls averages 192 sunny days per year

Missoula averages 42 inches of snow per year
Cedar Falls averages 35 inches of snow per year

Next fake narrative attempt

Percentage of Sun is higher in Montana.

Of course Flagstaff gets sun on 264 days, on average, with 78% sun (and over 100" per year of snow)

[POD Knows]

Missoula averages 159 sunny days per year
Cedar Falls averages 192 sunny days per year

Missoula averages 42 inches of snow per year
Cedar Falls averages 35 inches of snow per year

Next fake narrative attempt

Missoula is the Seattle of Montana

[POD Knows]

Percentage of Sun is higher in Montana.

Of course Flagstaff gets sun on 264 days, on average, with 78% sun (and over 100" per year of snow)Flagstaff is God's country, it is a seriously awesome place. If they get snow and you don't like it, you can drive an hour south and be in 70 degree weather. I would live there in a heartbeat.

[Cocky]

Now this is a good thread. Lots of good **** on here.

[BisonFan02]

Now this is a good thread. Lots of good **** on here.

Still not a stadium.

[clenz]

Percentage of Sun is higher in Montana.

Of course Flagstaff gets sun on 264 days, on average, with 78% sun (and over 100" per year of snow)

Percent of sun? What the **** is that, an alternative science fact?

Missoula is at 55%
Cedar Falls isn't listed but Des Moines is 59% and Sioux City is 61%


Try again

[BisonFan02]

Where does "% of the sun" land in the decision pyramid of MVC selection? The sun is round like a basketball...therefore important? Someone get back at me with the info. #hockeypucksareblackholes

[POD Knows]

Percent of sun? What the **** is that, an alternative science fact?

Missoula is at 55%
Cedar Falls isn't listed but Des Moines is 59% and Sioux City is 61%


Try again

I have never seen the sun shine in Sioux City, never, not once and I have been there plenty of times. I want an audit of the data.

[ST_Lawson]

Survey that shows where most people consider the "midwest": https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/ (hint, Illinois wins)
And here's one for "the south": https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/which-states-are-in-the-south/
Sorry, there's no "Big Sky" version.

As for the Missouri Valley, technically Western is in the Mississippi watershed area, although we're less than a 3 hour drive from the Missouri River, so....not exceptionally close, but not what I'd consider too far out of the way. Indiana State and Youngstown State, however...

[clenz]

Survey that shows where most people consider the "midwest": https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/ (hint, Illinois wins)
And here's one for "the south": https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/which-states-are-in-the-south/
Sorry, there's no "Big Sky" version.

As for the Missouri Valley, technically Western is in the Mississippi watershed area, although we're less than a 3 hour drive from the Missouri River, so....not exceptionally close, but not what I'd consider too far out of the way. Indiana State and Youngstown State, however...
That's where I differ. I specifically state upper-midwest. Midwest, on it's own, should run all the way north to south (easily replaceable by the word central). Since Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Arizona, New Mexico, etc... all typically fall under southeast, southwest, south, etc... midwest becomes it's own strangle blob of a territory. It's more specific to claim upper-midwest in most cases

[UNHWildcat18]

Ohio and Michigan are in the Midwest. Kansas is a Plains State.

Midwest includes Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota

Plains States includes Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota but I know all of the people on the eastern sides Kansas to North Dakota consider themselves Midwest. I suppose the Plains States could be considered a subset of the Midwest.

Missouri could be in the Midwest or the South depending on where you are at in the state. During the Civil War it was claimed by both sides. Missouri has always been torn about where they belong.

Pennsylvania is in the Northeast

Sorry but Pennsylvania is in the mid Atlantic IMO. To us northeast is New England and New York, PA/NJ to Virginia is the mid Atlantic, one could argue parts of PA hit 3 different regions if you really look at it though

[Daytripper]

Flagstaff is God's country, it is a seriously awesome place. If they get snow and you don't like it, you can drive an hour south and be in 70 degree weather. I would live there in a heartbeat.

Agree 100%. Love me some Flagstaff.

[344Johnson]

The Red River Valley.. for me.. is where the Great Plains start.

North Dakota is not the Midwest. The original B1G is the Midwest.

[ST_Lawson]

That's where I differ. I specifically state upper-midwest. Midwest, on it's own, should run all the way north to south (easily replaceable by the word central). Since Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Arizona, New Mexico, etc... all typically fall under southeast, southwest, south, etc... midwest becomes it's own strangle blob of a territory. It's more specific to claim upper-midwest in most cases

Actually, I agree with you on that. You gotta go with "upper midwest" because everything that would be "lower" or "south" midwest already has a region (like you said). But Iowa, Illinois, Indiana...all definitely midwest (unless you go to far southern Illinois...then you're essentially in "the south"...Cairo, IL is only about 35 miles from Tennessee and is further south than Richmond or Roanoke, VA).


The Red River Valley.. for me.. is where the Great Plains start.

North Dakota is not the Midwest. The original B1G is the Midwest.

Yup, pretty much run a line down the border there (follow I-29 and then I-49 and that's pretty close)...anything west of that out to the Rockies is the "Great Plains". East of that line, and roughly north of where I-64 runs is what I'd consider midwest out to eastern Ohio (Cleveland, Canton, Youngstown)...once it starts to get hilly, then you're getting into what I consider the "mideast"

I was confused for a second there though...then I remembered that there's two major "Red Rivers".

[goyotes]

I cannot find either Murray State or Wichita State on a map. What regions are they in? What states do they border?

[FargoBison]

The Red River Valley.. for me.. is where the Great Plains start.

North Dakota is not the Midwest. The original B1G is the Midwest.

Eastern ND is Midwest, western ND isn't. Clenz is right about states lines not being an accurate border.

[TheRevSFA]

Hey MO State, come to the SLC

[BisonFan02]

Hey MO State, come to the SLC

https://media.giphy.com/media/xumhomgDQVj0s/giphy.gif

[344Johnson]

Eastern ND is Midwest, western ND isn't. Clenz is right about states lines not being an accurate border.

No.

North Dakota is the Plains. I used the Red River Valley as my line. So you can go a little way into Minnesota before running into the Midwest.

[Daytripper]

The difference between the deep south and the southwest is less geography and more a state of mind.

[DFW HOYA]

The difference between the deep south and the southwest is less geography and more a state of mind.

One can border the Deep South via interstate highways: I-55 on the west, I-40 on the north, I-85 on the east, I-10 on the south.