Murray State

[citdog]

One can border the Deep South via interstate highways: I-55 on the west, I-40 on the north, I-85 on the east, I-10 on the south.

It's pretty damn easy to figure out...


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/48/e7/4b/48e74b1fc6c52014bbb7b09be211327d.jpg

[POD Knows]

Agree 100%. Love me some Flagstaff.Real estate is pretty high out there, but it is the only place in AZ where I would live.

[dbackjon]

Real estate is pretty high out there, but it is the only place in AZ where I would live.

Very pricey. And jobs are hard to come by. At least decent paying jobs.

[POD Knows]

Very pricey. And jobs are hard to come by. At least decent paying jobs.What supports the real estate market in Flagstaff? It doesn't seem to be retirees, what is the deal?

[GodHelpTheBears]

Hey MO State, come to the SLC

It's a better fit than the new MVFC (and apparently the new MVC). The busiest route out of Springfield's airport is to DFW, and a route to IAH starts next month. We do not have and do not anticipate having a flight to the Twin Cities any time soon. Nothing against the folks of the midwest, the Ozarks are just connected more closely to its south/southwestern neighbors and to Texas these days.

[bulldog10jw]

What supports the real estate market in Flagstaff? It doesn't seem to be retirees, what is the deal?

Summer homes. You should see the traffic from Flagstaff back down to Phoenix on I-17 on a Sunday night in July.

[dgtw]

Getting back on topic, it seems there will be a meeting Monday with an announcement on Tuesday.


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[POD Knows]

Summer homes. You should see the traffic from Flagstaff back down to Phoenix on I-17 on a Sunday night in July.Really, so Phoenix people buy summer homes in Flagstaff? I would have never thought of that. Sounds like a lot of $$ just to stay cool for a few days in the summer.

[WestCoastAggie]

Getting back on topic, it seems there will be a meeting Monday with an announcement on Tuesday.


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The MVC SHOULD announce Murray State and Valpo accepting invitations Tuesday but you never know with these Presidents.

[dbackjon]

What supports the real estate market in Flagstaff? It doesn't seem to be retirees, what is the deal?

Some retirees, the University is the big employer. Plus housing for all the students that don't live on campus. WL Gore has a number of plants up there. Tourism is big up there. And a LOT of second homes for Phoenicians. That is the killer to the real estate market. Add that to a restricted land base (forest service, too mountainous to build on) etc and you have a shortage of housing.

[dbackjon]

Really, so Phoenix people buy summer homes in Flagstaff? I would have never thought of that. Sounds like a lot of $$ just to stay cool for a few days in the summer.



People come up all year round - skiing, snow, plus the summers - I know people that go up most every weekend to Flagstaff, Pine, Payson etc.

And many of the people now rent them out on weekends they don't use them.

[Model Citizen]

Murray State is OUT.

Ok, back to your off topic stuff.

[Laker]

Murray State is OUT.

Ok, back to your off topic stuff.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_ZH5WPXsAA_CQL.jpg

[clenz]

Missouri State AD states that the expansion committee will continue to meet regularly for at least the next 9 months

[Bisonator]

xlolx

[BisonFan02]

xlolx

Don't wanna split up all that March Madness money too much! :D

[BisonFan02]

Also, "in" before the MVFC and football get blamed for Murray's lack of invite.

[Bisonator]

Also, "in" before the MVFC and football get blamed for Murray's lack of invite.
More then likely the MVC privates doing. Don't want more evil FB schools ya know!:D

[jacksfan29]

Missouri State AD states that the expansion committee will continue to meet regularly for at least the next 9 months

That would be the Missouri State President.

https://twitter.com/ClifSmart/status/861959323613876226

The expansion committee meetings were likely agreed on to pacify the two schools who wanted Murray. Since it looks like one was MSU, who would the other be? The MVC has spoken. They are a 10 team league, happy to be where they are, end of story. Seems as if a lot of MVC fans want to ignore Norlander's article below. Pretty clear from the inside that there is very little support to go over 10.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/missouri-valley-presidents-vote-for-valpo-to-replace-wichita-state-stay-at-10-teams/

Sources also told CBS Sports that the Missouri Valley intends to remain at 10 teams for the forseeable future. Most coaches and athletic directors within the league prefer the 10-team format and schedule.

"No one wanted to go to 12," a source said.

One source said the majority of league presidents were in favor of Valpo, but two league presidents stumped hard for Murray State (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/page/MURYST/murray-st-racers). The league's official stance is that the vote to add Valpo was unanimous.

"The conference office was totally sold on Valpo," one source said.

[Yote 53]

So the MVC decided to remain a small-time, private school bus league. Geesh, who would have ever thought that would happen?

Maybe eventually UNI, ISUb, ISUr, SUI, and MSU will figure it out. The best idea would be to make the MVFC an all sports conference, dump those privates and let them go their own way. An all-sports conference with like minded, regional, public universities. It will take a couple of years of single bids for the MVC and for the NCAA credits to dry up. Eventually you will figure out that the best route to go is not the MAC but the group you have been associated with all along. Just hope the western half hasn't got fed up and left in disgust before that happens.

[underdawg]

So the MVC decided to remain a small-time, private school bus league. Geesh, who would have ever thought that would happen?

Maybe eventually UNI, ISUb, ISUr, SUI, and MSU will figure it out. The best idea would be to make the MVFC an all sports conference, dump those privates and let them go their own way. An all-sports conference with like minded, regional, public universities. It will take a couple of years of single bids for the MVC and for the NCAA credits to dry up. Eventually you will figure out that the best route to go is not the MAC but the group you have been associated with all along. Just hope the western half hasn't got fed up and left in disgust before that happens.


Who among the privates (except Valpo)--if they all left would take any NCAA bids with them? I agree with your all-sports scenario

[Yote 53]

Over time those NCAA credits the MVC has are going to run out. Going forward I don't see the MVC being a multi-bid conference, I mean, look at what happened this year. So given enough time the MVC, Summit, OVC, and Horizon will all be on the same level, one bid conferences. At that point the money is even and realignment could happen along ideological lines and the public, regional, state schools could form an all-sports conference and the private schools could form their own.

[ST_Lawson]

Over time those NCAA credits the MVC has are going to run out. Going forward I don't see the MVC being a multi-bid conference, I mean, look at what happened this year. So given enough time the MVC, Summit, OVC, and Horizon will all be on the same level, one bid conferences. At that point the money is even and realignment could happen along ideological lines and the public, regional, state schools could form an all-sports conference and the private schools could form their own.

That's kinda my "dream scenario". MVFC and the public MVC schools mostly. YSU heads east (nothing against YSU, but you guys are just way too far east for what I'd like to see), we maybe bring in Murray State if we're wanting to up our basketball game.

You'd end up with: Illinois State, Indiana State, Southern Illinois, Western Illinois, Missouri State, Northern Iowa, South Dakota, South Dakota State, North Dakota, North Dakota State.
10 teams, all public, all essentially "upper midwest" (yes, I know, we had this discussion where the Dakota schools may not quite "technically" be midwest...more "plains states", but still, in a pretty close footprint), nobody in huge metro areas (I think Fargo would be the biggest "metro area" as the only one over 200k in the area).

Optionally: Murray State and/or Eastern Illinois

Not sure if it'll happen any time soon though...a few of those schools think of themselves really as basketball schools, and for the most part, are head and shoulders ahead of a few of us. I know that a couple probably don't want to have anything to do with my Leathernecks on the basketball court (can you say RPI "anchor"). Still, I'd love to see it someday....maybe the SD schools and NDSU can keep upping their basketball to the point where the MVC teams consider it "on par" with the situation they currently have.

[TheKingpin28]

That's kinda my "dream scenario". MVFC and the public MVC schools mostly. YSU heads east (nothing against YSU, but you guys are just way too far east for what I'd like to see), we maybe bring in Murray State if we're wanting to up our basketball game.

You'd end up with: Illinois State, Indiana State, Southern Illinois, Western Illinois, Missouri State, Northern Iowa, South Dakota, South Dakota State, North Dakota, North Dakota State.
10 teams, all public, all essentially "upper midwest" (yes, I know, we had this discussion where the Dakota schools may not quite "technically" be midwest...more "plains states", but still, in a pretty close footprint), nobody in huge metro areas (I think Fargo would be the biggest "metro area" as the only one over 200k in the area).

Optionally: Murray State and/or Eastern Illinois

Not sure if it'll happen any time soon though...a few of those schools think of themselves really as basketball schools, and for the most part, are head and shoulders ahead of a few of us. I know that a couple probably don't want to have anything to do with my Leathernecks on the basketball court (can you say RPI "anchor"). Still, I'd love to see it someday....maybe the SD schools and NDSU can keep upping their basketball to the point where the MVC teams consider it "on par" with the situation they currently have.

Getting the MVC to admit that the Summit and them are damn near equal is laughable. They are too arrogant to admit this and would rather have a single bid than multiple bids. It is well known that I despise basketball, but getting rid of YSU and having the Public MVC join the Dakotas and WIU would pay off dividends. UNO is going to want to stay but that is a tricky situation so then adding another non-football school in the east would help to balance it out.

[ST_Lawson]

Getting the MVC to admit that the Summit and them are damn near equal is laughable. They are too arrogant to admit this and would rather have a single bid than multiple bids. It is well known that I despise basketball, but getting rid of YSU and having the Public MVC join the Dakotas and WIU would pay off dividends. UNO is going to want to stay but that is a tricky situation so then adding another non-football school in the east would help to balance it out.

Yea, I didn't think it was at all likely, hence the "optional". If something like this happens 10 years or so down the road, and at the time some of us Summit teams have really stepped up in basketball, then maybe.

As for non-football teams, could see about UMKC (wouldn't be east, but could provide a travel partner for either Omaha or MSU), UALR (In this case...A south team, but also travel with MSU), more eastern teams could include UIC or NKU possibly. SIU-E is also a possibility.

I was kinda hoping to stay out of the really big markets, thinking that it's also good to mostly have the teams be the "big game" in town, rather than a ton of other college or pro competition. But if we're keeping Omaha, we're kinda already doing that.


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[UNIFanSince1983]

The major issue is I think the MVC public schools want to be with like minded schools. At this point you could almost say all 5 of them are basketball first schools. The only one maybe you question is MSU because they have big football dreams, but they are just so bad currently. The Dakotas and WIU for sure would be football (or hockey) first schools for sure. So it is probably a tough sell.

[GodHelpTheBears]

The major issue is I think the MVC public schools want to be with like minded schools. At this point you could almost say all 5 of them are basketball first schools. The only one maybe you question is MSU because they have big football dreams, but they are just so bad currently. The Dakotas and WIU for sure would be football (or hockey) first schools for sure. So it is probably a tough sell.

Explain MSU's big football dreams to the board. I'm a lifelong Ozarks resident and Missouri State alum, these "dreams" have not been detailed in the Standard, the News-Leader or any of the alumni newsletters I have read. I am eager for good news for once.

[dgtw]

I've been lurking on the MVC board the last few weeks. They act as if rejecting Murray is like they rejected Duke.




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[uni88]

Getting the MVC to admit that the Summit and them are damn near equal is laughable. They are too arrogant to admit this and would rather have a single bid than multiple bids. It is well known that I despise basketball, but getting rid of YSU and having the Public MVC join the Dakotas and WIU would pay off dividends. UNO is going to want to stay but that is a tricky situation so then adding another non-football school in the east would help to balance it out.
So you think the MVC publics should ditch their private brethren to join the Dakotas and WIU but you're afraid to kick UNO to the curb?


The major issue is I think the MVC public schools want to be with like minded schools. At this point you could almost say all 5 of them are basketball first schools. The only one maybe you question is MSU because they have big football dreams, but they are just so bad currently. The Dakotas and WIU for sure would be football (or hockey) first schools for sure. So it is probably a tough sell.
Not sure if MSU still has those football dreams. There are also relationships/rivalries that aren't easy to break. I don't know what the current status is but ISUr and Bradley used to have a great rivalry.

[Bisonator]

The major issue is I think the MVC public schools want to be with like minded schools. At this point you could almost say all 5 of them are basketball first schools. The only one maybe you question is MSU because they have big football dreams, but they are just so bad currently. The Dakotas and WIU for sure would be football (or hockey) first schools for sure. So it is probably a tough sell.
That maybe true but you all seem to have way higher views of your BB teams than most outsiders. Outside of UNI none of the others has done much of anything in the past 10 years. I suppose they could be good again now with WS leaving. I don't know I see a bunch of has beens in the MVC that spend a lot of money for not much returns. I see some great potential in the Dakota schools that is just getting rolling IMO. It appears the MVC is stuck in the here and now rather than having a vision of what could be in 5-10 years.

[ST_Lawson]

So you think the MVC publics should ditch their private brethren to join the Dakotas and WIU but you're afraid to kick UNO to the curb?


Not sure if MSU still has those football dreams. There are also relationships/rivalries that aren't easy to break. I don't know what the current status is but ISUr and Bradley used to have a great rivalry.

I'd have very little problem letting UNO go. I like some of their fans (they brought a decent and friendly cheering section to our place when we played them this last season), but it's not really a longstanding rivalry or anything. We don't have a lot of connection to a metro-area non-football school that we've really only just started playing in the last few years.

As for existing rivalries with private schools in MVC...I know that it'd take a little more creativity in scheduling, but there's very little reason they couldn't be maintained, I think. For example, except for 2014-15, Western has played Eastern IL in basketball at least once every year since they left the Mid-Con conference in 1996, with the last two years each having a 2-game H&H series. Also, look at the Illinois State vs Eastern Illinois football rivalry. Scheduling is usually a lot tougher in football (with only 11-12 games per season), but they've been able to make it work, and quite often, it makes for a very exciting and challenging non-conference game for both teams.

I don't know all the rivalries that are in place in the MVC, but I could easily see some scheduling agreement where you have something similar between: Illinois State and Bradley, Northern Iowa and Drake, Indiana State and...idk...Evansville (or maybe nobody cares about Evansville...that's kinda what it seems like on the MVCFans board).

Again, not saying this is at all likely...there'd be a LOT of hurdles to overcome...it's just what I'd love to see someday.

[Yote 53]

The major issue is I think the MVC public schools want to be with like minded schools. At this point you could almost say all 5 of them are basketball first schools. The only one maybe you question is MSU because they have big football dreams, but they are just so bad currently. The Dakotas and WIU for sure would be football (or hockey) first schools for sure. So it is probably a tough sell.

The Dakotas are all pretty well rounded when it comes to athletics, they pretty much want to excel in anything they do. USD and SDSU have historically been the "basketball schools" of the 4, I'd say. Heck, USD just spent $60 million dollars building a basketball arena. NDSU spent millions renovating the SHAC. SDSU is spending millions upgrading Frost. You don't do that if basketball is just a side piece.

[clenz]

The Dakotas are all pretty well rounded when it comes to athletics, they pretty much want to excel in anything they do. USD and SDSU have historically been the "basketball schools" of the 4, I'd say. Heck, USD just spent $60 million dollars building a basketball arena. NDSU spent millions renovating the SHAC. SDSU is spending millions upgrading Frost. You don't do that if basketball is just a side piece.
You also fund basketball at more than 1.4m per year if it isn't just a side piece.

[Bisonator]

You also fund basketball at more than 1.4m per year if it isn't just a side piece.
How much much money do the MVC schools get from the wins UNI and WSU had in the NCAA? How long has UNI been funding their BB program at the current level? How long has UNI been D1? How long have the Dak schools been D1? How much are the bottom half MVC teams putting into BB? What's their ROI been lately?

[Yote 53]

You also fund basketball at more than 1.4m per year if it isn't just a side piece.

That you actually believe the numbers reported on the books, that's what is funny. Accounting, you can do amazing things with numbers. You can make them look really large, or really small.

[Yote 53]

Denver - $3,361,111 - 114
ORU - $2,741,483 - 140
UND - $1,579,108 - 251
IUPUI - $1,564,479 - 253
SDSU - $1,443,001 - 274
NDSU - $1,417,450 - 278
UNO - $1,288,481 - 300
IPFW - 1,269,206 - 303
WIU - 1,238,197 - 304
USD - $1,156,551 - 313

Don't believe that USD number for one minute, it's all accounting. Move an expense from here to there, slide some revenues on to this line rather than that line, voila. Ok, go ahead and believe it, and then realize that USD won the regular season conference championship last year, was a blown lead in the Summit championship game away from the NCAA's, and is an odds-on favorite to contend/win the conference next season. It's not what you spend, it's all about results.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Can USD sustain that basketball success if they do not increase their basketball spending? Like how long before the coach leaves for a step up?

That is the issue. Sure you can have a season or two of success in a row with paltry spending, but at some point you need to increase the spending if you want sustained success. If you don't pay your coach they won't stay long if they are having success. UNI realized this and that is why Jake makes what he does.

[TheKingpin28]

So you think the MVC publics should ditch their private brethren to join the Dakotas and WIU but you're afraid to kick UNO to the curb?

Who said anything about being afraid? I am just saying that UNO, footprint wise, makes sense to let them stay and then add another non-football east team. Kick YSU to the curb and that brings it back down to 10 plus the 2 non-football members. Personally, if the MVC were to split, I would love to see UNO gone since UNL will not let them support football, I am just saying that footprint wise, it makes sense to consider them staying since they are in between MSU and USeD

[F'N Hawks]

Denver - $3,361,111 - 114
ORU - $2,741,483 - 140
UND - $1,579,108 - 251
IUPUI - $1,564,479 - 253
SDSU - $1,443,001 - 274
NDSU - $1,417,450 - 278
UNO - $1,288,481 - 300
IPFW - 1,269,206 - 303
WIU - 1,238,197 - 304
USD - $1,156,551 - 313

Don't believe that USD number for one minute, it's all accounting. Move an expense from here to there, slide some revenues on to this line rather than that line, voila. Ok, go ahead and believe it, and then realize that USD won the regular season conference championship last year, was a blown lead in the Summit championship game away from the NCAA's, and is an odds-on favorite to contend/win the conference next season. It's not what you spend, it's all about results.

UND has the 3rd largest basketball budget in the Summit League?? Hockey school, huh.

USD pays their coach 3X what Jones was making, there is zero percent chance that is their budget.

[Yote 53]

Can USD sustain that basketball success if they do not increase their basketball spending? Like how long before the coach leaves for a step up?

That is the issue. Sure you can have a season or two of success in a row with paltry spending, but at some point you need to increase the spending if you want sustained success. If you don't pay your coach they won't stay long if they are having success. UNI realized this and that is why Jake makes what he does.

You don't pay attention much. That just happened and USD retained their coach.

[ST_Lawson]

You don't pay attention much. That just happened and USD retained their coach.

To a MVC school too, right? Drake, I think. They were interested, but USD made it worth his while to stay. Don't know if it was all financial, but I'm sure that played a part.


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[clenz]

Drake....rofl....

They are on their 7th coach since 2003.

Only coaches who want to kill their career go there

[jacksfan29]

How much much money do the MVC schools get from the wins UNI and WSU had in the NCAA? How long has UNI been funding their BB program at the current level? How long has UNI been D1? How long have the Dak schools been D1? How much are the bottom half MVC teams putting into BB? What's their ROI been lately

UNI, over 35 years. SDSU and NDSU, 14 years but the official transition from D2 to D1 occurred in 2009.

ROI? Not so good.

[Yote 53]

Drake....rofl....

They are on their 7th coach since 2003.

Only coaches who want to kill their career go there

...and they are your MVC conference mate. So coaching in the MVC is a career killer. Got it.