2017 (Too Early) SoCon Football Predictions

[youcanbankit]

School
Conference Wins
Conference Losses


Samford
7
1


Chattanooga
6
2


The Citadel
6
2


Furman
5
3



Wofford
4
4


Mercer
3
5


Western Carolina
3
5


ETSU
2
6


VMI
1
7




http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24715&stc=1





Too Early Projections - SoCon 2017

[Bucs2016]

Good thread. Are you doing a Big South WTE thread?

[Bucs2016]

It appears to be a 3 way race for this league. But I wanna say Furman is a dark horse. They brought in Charleston Southerns defensive staff, and that staff was brilliant against option teams. They were one of the only staffs who bottled up Citadel and Woffords option attack (still lost to Wofford though) as well as other option teams they faced.

Wouldnt be shocked at all if Furman finishes 2nd or 3rd...or better. Maybe not in year 1 of the new staff. But soon.

[youcanbankit]

It appears to be a 3 way race for this league. But I wanna say Furman is a dark horse. They brought in Charleston Southerns defensive staff, and that staff was brilliant against option teams. They were one of the only staffs who bottled up Citadel and Woffords option attack (still lost to Wofford though) as well as other option teams they faced.

Wouldn't be shocked at all if Furman finishes 2nd or 3rd...or better. Maybe not in year 1 of the new staff. But soon.

That is a great point. Was thinking it will take a year or so for Furman to have time to install changes and move back into contention.

[Bucs2016]

That is a great point. Was thinking it will take a year or so for Furman to have time to install changes and move back into contention.

Yeah probably will. But im VERY high on Chad Staggs after seeing what he did with the CSU defense. Throttled the Citadel and Wofford option attacks. He held NDSU to 17 points in Fargo to force overtime. He will make Furmans defense very good very fast, especially against the run. And in that league right now if you can stop the option, thats huge. CSU did at times give up a lot of passing yards, but I think he can land secondary talent that's probably a little better than he had at CSU.

[FUBeAR]

School
Conference Wins
Conference Losses


Samford
7
1


Chattanooga
6
2


The Citadel
6
2


Furman
5
3


Wofford
4
4


Mercer
3
5


Western Carolina
3
5


ETSU
2
6


VMI
1
7




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5_xgo1Twr8

[PaladinFan]

That is a great point. Was thinking it will take a year or so for Furman to have time to install changes and move back into contention.

There is a lot of excitement about the Furman program. Some have said it has been decades since they have seen this sort of buzz around Paladin football.

Offensively, I think Furman will be fine. We return most players off the offensive line two deep, have a solid group of capable running backs, some gifted wide receivers, and can hand the ball to a senior QB who already has a lot of the athletic traits you are looking for in this offense. It is hard to say exactly what the Furman offense will look like, but I think it will be difficult to prepare for in the conference.

Defensively, we will see. We graduated some talented players, but I think a 3-4 system is well suited to what Furman needs to do on defense. Chad Staggs has been really successful, and has seen a lot of the option during his time at Charleston Southern. Of course, Clay Hendrix was an offensive staff member that ran a lot of option at Air Force, so I expect they will have a pretty good idea on what to look for and how to defend it. As I have said before, I would be hard pressed to believe there is another program in D1 football that has seen the option as much as Furman has.

I am really impressed with Furman hires on the coaching staff. Hired a lot of guys that came from winning programs. Guys that know how to coach. Also hired a lot of guys that are philosophically aligned with what Hendrix wants to do on both sides of the ball. He made smart hires with the coordinators, and then filled in the staff with guys that already understand the system those coordinators want to run.

[citdog]

furman sucks

[FUBeAR]

But im VERY high on Chad Staggs after seeing what he did with the CSU defense. Throttled the Citadel and Wofford option attacks. He will make Furmans defense very good very fast, especially against the run. And in that league right now if you can stop the option, thats huge.

Agree. Studied their 2015 1st game against El Cid very closely. They did a lot of interesting things with personnel groups and stunts/games on the end of the line to confuse the blockers and the QB. They were able to do this because they were able to stop the dive without having to fully commit 4-6 guys to get that piece done - pretty much stopped the dive (either way) with the 3 guys in the middle.

Also would point out that Mercer's D, with the exception of 1 play (70 yd TD on the 2nd play of the game) vs. El Cid, was rather solid against the TO in 2016 as well. Held CIT to 3.76 ypc (with the exception of that 70 yard run) & 11 1st downs rushing. CIT avg'd 5.37 ypc/18 1st downs rushing in 2016. They didn't fare quite so well the following week vs. GT as they took some time to get adjusted to FBS speed in their 1st game vs. an FBS Team in 75 years, but they weren't awful and the outcome was not determined until about 1/2way thru the 4th quarter. Finally, they played an outstanding game vs. Woffy's TO holding the LittleDogs to 205 yards/3.42 ypc and only 10 1st downs rushing - 2nd only to CSU's defense of their rushing game.

The Bears open with 2 TO Teams again in 2017 - 1st JacksonvilleU, then Woffy - both in Macon. Then they'll face their 3rd TO Opponent @ CIT 4 weeks later and, likely, another TO-based Team, @ Furman, 2 weeks after that. It will be interesting to see how having a reasonably solid 2016 vs. the TO and playing 7 games against the TO over the 2016-17 span will work out for Mercer this coming season.

On a more 'macro-level,' Furman should be able to defend the TO well with their familiarity with it as most of the Staff is from CSU or Air Force and, most likely, will be running a version of it themselves. Mercer seems to have it reasonably well figured out and El Cid and Woffy don't seem to be able to do to one another what they have been able to do to non-TO Teams. Didn't do the 'deep analysis' on it, but, at a glance, it appears that Sammy, ETSU, and WCU struggled to stop CIT's and Woffy's running games last year, with VMI & Chatt having mixed results. So, it will be interesting to see how that (the possible rise of Defense-ability by Mercer and Furman vs. the TO) plays out and translates into wins/losses in SoCon games in 2017.

[citdog]

All of those numbers from the Mercer game last year mean exactly JACK ****. Jordan Black, who had never taken a college snap, played Quarterback in that one. Mercer couldn't even stop a guy who had never played on their home field in a game they had 6 months to prepare for.

[FUBeAR]

All of those numbers from the Mercer game last year mean exactly JACK ****. Jordan Black, who had never taken a college snap, played Quarterback in that one. Mercer couldn't even stop a guy who had never played on their home field in a game they had 6 months to prepare for.

Black had 10 carries for 25 yards. 2.5 ypc - I think CIT expects a bit better rushing production than that from the QB spot. So, I don't think your "couldn't even stop a guy..." comment in the context of my discussion of Mercer's run D vs. the TO carries any weight or luggage. All the Bears could do was line up against the CIT Players that were eligible, available, unsuspended, & uninjured that night. Both Teams had Players that did not play for various reasons.

Are you going to denigrate the replacements for Delaney, Pinson, Williams, Graham, and Johnson next year to dispute actual game results?

[citdog]

Black had 10 carries for 25 yards. 2.5 ypc - I think CIT expects a bit better rushing production than that from the QB spot. So, I don't think your "couldn't even stop a guy..." comment in the context of my discussion of Mercer's run D vs. the TO carries any weight or luggage. All the Bears could do was line up against the CIT Players that were eligible, available, unsuspended, & uninjured that night. Both Teams had Players that did not play for various reasons.

Are you going to denigrate the replacements for Delaney, Pinson, Williams, Graham, and Johnson next year to dispute actual game results?

Guy came in and ran the offense and won a conference game on the road against a team that had a lot of hype and expectations. He also had a better Qb Pass Rating than the fella who had been at Mercer longer than Nealon Greene was at klempsin...

[PaladinFan]

Agree. Studied their 2015 1st game against El Cid very closely. They did a lot of interesting things with personnel groups and stunts/games on the end of the line to confuse the blockers and the QB. They were able to do this because they were able to stop the dive without having to fully commit 4-6 guys to get that piece done - pretty much stopped the dive (either way) with the 3 guys in the middle.

Also would point out that Mercer's D, with the exception of 1 play (70 yd TD on the 2nd play of the game) vs. El Cid, was rather solid against the TO in 2016 as well. Held CIT to 3.76 ypc (with the exception of that 70 yard run) & 11 1st downs rushing. CIT avg'd 5.37 ypc/18 1st downs rushing in 2016. They didn't fare quite so well the following week vs. GT as they took some time to get adjusted to FBS speed in their 1st game vs. an FBS Team in 75 years, but they weren't awful and the outcome was not determined until about 1/2way thru the 4th quarter. Finally, they played an outstanding game vs. Woffy's TO holding the LittleDogs to 205 yards/3.42 ypc and only 10 1st downs rushing - 2nd only to CSU's defense of their rushing game.

The Bears open with 2 TO Teams again in 2017 - 1st JacksonvilleU, then Woffy - both in Macon. Then they'll face their 3rd TO Opponent @ CIT 4 weeks later and, likely, another TO-based Team, @ Furman, 2 weeks after that. It will be interesting to see how having a reasonably solid 2016 vs. the TO and playing 7 games against the TO over the 2016-17 span will work out for Mercer this coming season.

On a more 'macro-level,' Furman should be able to defend the TO well with their familiarity with it as most of the Staff is from CSU or Air Force and, most likely, will be running a version of it themselves. Mercer seems to have it reasonably well figured out and El Cid and Woffy don't seem to be able to do to one another what they have been able to do to non-TO Teams. Didn't do the 'deep analysis' on it, but, at a glance, it appears that Sammy, ETSU, and WCU struggled to stop CIT's and Woffy's running games last year, with VMI & Chatt having mixed results. So, it will be interesting to see how that (the possible rise of Defense-ability by Mercer and Furman vs. the TO) plays out and translates into wins/losses in SoCon games in 2017.

As a former colleague would say, "other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"

[FUBeAR]

Guy came in and ran the offense and won a conference game on the road against a team that had a lot of hype and expectations. He also had a better Qb Pass Rating than the fella who had been at Mercer longer than Nealon Greene was at klempsin...

...who threw for 100 more yards and ran for 50 more yds & 2 more TD's.

...but I wasn't down-talking young Mr. Black. You were. I thought he played an outstanding game. His passing on the final drive enabled CIT to come away with a come-from-behind, last seconds, 1 point win. I've seen the other guy throw. I don't believe he could have done that.

[citdog]

...who threw for 100 more yards and ran for 50 more yds & 2 more TD's.

...but I wasn't down-talking young Mr. Black. You were. I thought he played an outstanding game. His passing on the final drive enabled CIT to come away with a come-from-behind, last seconds, 1 point win. I've seen the other guy throw. I don't believe he could have done that.

Road Conference "W". I wasn't badmouthing Cadet Black I pointed out that you didn't have to face a 2 year starter at QB who is yet another physical and pounding type fella who knows the checks and runs our version of the TO as good as anyone not named Gene Brown or Jack Douglas. I agree with you that Black is the better passer but barring injury or MORE roster massacres he will have to wait one more year to be the guy in Charleston. If some of the other fellas we have brought in aren't BETTER that is.

[FUBeAR]

As a former colleague would say, "other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"

I think you need to refresh your schtick. You've used that one before.

Yep - I 'excepted' 1 play in 164 rushing attempts by TO Teams vs. Mercer in 2016. 0.6%. Whatever, Mr. Booth, put it back in...Mercer played exceptional run defense in 2016, especially, relative to other Teams vs. FCS TO Teams....with the exception of the 1st half vs. Chatt. (not a TO Team).

BTW - Unlike JWB's bullet, that 70 yard run was only a flesh wound. The strip sack on the subsequent Offensive series deep in Mercer territory leading to another quick TD & the inability to stop CIT's P/A Passes on the final series were the kill shots. #SicSemperTyrannis

[PaladinFan]

I think you need to refresh your schtick. You've used that one before.

Yep - I 'excepted' 1 play in 164 rushing attempts by TO Teams vs. Mercer in 2016. 0.6%. Whatever, Mr. Booth, put it back in...Mercer played exceptional run defense in 2016, especially, relative to other Teams vs. FCS TO Teams....with the exception of the 1st half vs. Chatt. (not a TO Team).

BTW - Unlike JWB's bullet, that 70 yard run was only a flesh wound. The strip sack on the subsequent Offensive series deep in Mercer territory leading to another quick TD & the inability to stop CIT's P/A Passes on the final series were the kill shots. #SicSemperTyrannis

Fairly descriptive of how a triple option team beats you. It isn't the barrage of 3-4 yard runs that sinks the defense. More often than not it is one or two broken tackles over the course of four quarters. Everyone has an assignment, and one guy out of place will lead to a back breaking play.

[Bucs2016]

Fairly descriptive of how a triple option team beats you. It isn't the barrage of 3-4 yard runs that sinks the defense. More often than not it is one or two broken tackles over the course of four quarters. Everyone has an assignment, and one guy out of place will lead to a back breaking play.

100% right. Thats what facing triple option is. Constant small gains or small losses. In fact the defense gets very confident a lot of times. Then bam. You get hit by that 65 yard unexpected play action pass or miss that one tackle on the FB dive and he goes for 70. Very frustrating. Every defense who loses a close game to a TO team will point to 1 or 2 big plays and that they otherwise shut the team down.

[FUBeAR]

Fairly descriptive of how a triple option team beats you. It isn't the barrage of 3-4 yard runs that sinks the defense. More often than not it is one or two broken tackles over the course of four quarters. Everyone has an assignment, and one guy out of place will lead to a back breaking play.

Exactly & supports my point. CIT only had about 3 other carries over 10 yards & Woffy only had about 5 or 6 over 10; with their longest being 16. That 70 yard CIT run was a single anomaly for Mercer's Run D vs. TO Teams in 2016. 1 out of 164. It was a bug; not a feature.

[Bucs2016]

Exactly & supports my point. CIT only had about 3 other carries over 10 yards & Woffy only had about 5 or 6 over 10; with their longest being 16. That 70 yard CIT run was a single anomaly for Mercer's Run D vs. TO Teams in 2016. 1 out of 164. It was a bug; not a feature.

Yeah but that IS the feature of triple option. Most teams who face triple option and had close games probably have a similar stat. CSU played Citadel 4x, Wofford 1x and Kennessaw St 2x over the last few years, all close games. It was the same. 99% of the plays went for small gains if any. Then bam...we get hit. Its like a boxer setting up a knockout punch with jabs and rope a dopes.

When Citadel beat South Carolina in 2015 it was the same. The Gamecocks handled them pretty much the entire game. But they broke 2 long ass TD runs. Thats it. 2 runs. But the grinding kept USC offense off the field and it wore down and bored their defense. And then the knockout blow came. That's how TO works, its a brilliant and beautiful offense.

I may never get over Wofford beating CSU in the playoffs last year haha. So frustrating defending them!

[ElCid]

Yeah but that IS the feature of triple option. Most teams who face triple option and had close games probably have a similar stat. CSU played Citadel 4x, Wofford 1x and Kennessaw St 2x over the last few years, all close games. It was the same. 99% of the plays went for small gains if any. Then bam...we get hit. Its like a boxer setting up a knockout punch with jabs and rope a dopes.

When Citadel beat South Carolina in 2015 it was the same. The Gamecocks handled them pretty much the entire game. But they broke 2 long ass TD runs. Thats it. 2 runs. But the grinding kept USC offense off the field and it wore down and bored their defense. And then the knockout blow came. That's how TO works, its a brilliant and beautiful offense.

I may never get over Wofford beating CSU in the playoffs last year haha. So frustrating defending them!

I am not disputing the point you have been making but you either didn't watch the game or forgot and the USC game is not a perfect example to prove your point. They did a lot of things, but handle the TO? No they did not. We had one drive where we had 8, 9 10, 11 yard runs over and over again all the way down the field. That is not handling us. They had some serious problems stopping us, to the tune of 350 yards. We did have a couple big plays, but lots of medium yard ones as well. Take away the big TD runs (56 and 59 yards) and Renew is still over 5 Yds a run and Jackson is over 4.

But to get back to your point, I agree with it pretty much. A defense can either be effective against the run every play, or not. If they are effective, they can either give up the odd big play or not. All depends on how good their concentration, conditioning and depth are.

[Bucs2016]

I am not disputing the point you have been making but you either didn't watch the game or forgot and the USC game is not a perfect example to prove your point. They did a lot of things, but handle the TO? No they did not. We had one drive where we had 8, 9 10, 11 yard runs over and over again all the way down the field. That is not handling us. They had some serious problems stopping us, to the tune of 350 yards. We did have a couple big plays, but lots of medium yard ones as well. Take away the big TD runs (56 and 59 yards) and Renew is still over 5 Yds a run and Jackson is over 4.

But to get back to your point, I agree with it pretty much. A defense can either be effective against the run every play, or not. If they are effective, they can either give up the odd big play or not. All depends on how good their concentration, conditioning and depth are.

I meant by the score. Yes yall moved the ball but like anyone facing it, its ok to give up some drives but not points. As for the score USC did "handle" it...except for those 2 long runs. Which as I said...is the hallmark of T.O. football.

You nailed it. Concentration. It almost lulls you to sleep. Or...gets players excited because they're "shutting it down" and guys speed up and over pursue...then bam. 80 yd TD.

[walliver]

School
Conference Wins
Conference Losses


Samford
7
1


Chattanooga
6
2


The Citadel
6
2


Furman
5
3


Wofford
4
4


Mercer
3
5


Western Carolina
3
5


ETSU
2
6


VMI
1
7




http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24715&stc=1





Too Early Projections - SoCon 2017

It's hard to agree with a prediction where the team that went the farthest in the playoffs is predicted to have 4 conference losses, while a team that lost to ETSU and made its usual early playoff exit is picked 1st.xcrazyx

[kdinva]

Coach wach will have an offensive playbook ready for the loss of Cobb, Forlines, Sanders, Swingle......look for a lot less shotgun (xbowx); more plays w/FB or H-Back in backfield at the snap, less plays snapping the ball with 16+ seconds on the play clock.....DO NOT SEE another 1-7 campaign....

[Bucs2016]

It's hard to agree with a prediction where the team that went the farthest in the playoffs is predicted to have 4 conference losses, while a team that lost to ETSU and made its usual early playoff exit is picked 1st.xcrazyx

That QB yall have taking over (#8 isnt it?) is gonna be a nightmare for opponents.

[citdog]

Coach wach will have an offensive playbook ready for the loss of Cobb, Forlines, Sanders, Swingle......look for a lot less shotgun (xbowx); more plays w/FB or H-Back in backfield at the snap, less plays snapping the ball with 16+ seconds on the play clock.....DO NOT SEE another 1-7 campaign....

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/16/a8/31/16a8313810910e5d58478d515eb18a3e.jpg

[PaladinFan]

It's hard to agree with a prediction where the team that went the farthest in the playoffs is predicted to have 4 conference losses, while a team that lost to ETSU and made its usual early playoff exit is picked 1st.xcrazyx

To put it simply, if Samford wants to be taken seriously on a national scale, you do not lose to ETSU.

But, I agree with you, Samford is developing a reputation as a paper tiger that makes a lot of noise in the preseason, but does not back it up when it matters. Wofford is the opposite. Rarely a lot of noise, but just keeps winning.

[ElCid]

To put it simply, if Samford wants to be taken seriously on a national scale, you do not lose to ETSU.

But, I agree with you, Samford is developing a reputation as a paper tiger that makes a lot of noise in the preseason, but does not back it up when it matters. Wofford is the opposite. Rarely a lot of noise, but just keeps winning.

These are really good points. I think it is obvious that Samford kicked back at the ETSU game and/or were looking forward. Not saying ETSU is horrible, they were ok in their second season, but Samford should have handled them. Samford has underwhelmed a lot the last 3-4 years. They have talent to be sure so why they can't put it together, I don't know. I want to say that maybe they need to lay off the transfers and do a better job recruiting. I think they have had quite a bit the last few years, but not sure of the actual number. Not saying that transfers would want to win, but I personally believe that teams that grow up together win together more easily. There is obviously some mental issue involved with Samford lately.

[PaladinFan]

These are really good points. I think it is obvious that Samford kicked back at the ETSU game and/or were looking forward. Not saying ETSU is horrible, they were ok in their second season, but Samford should have handled them. Samford has underwhelmed a lot the last 3-4 years. They have talent to be sure so why they can't put it together, I don't know. I want to say that maybe they need to lay off the transfers and do a better job recruiting. I think they have had quite a bit the last few years, but not sure of the actual number. Not saying that transfers would want to win, but I personally believe that teams that grow up together win together more easily. There is obviously some mental issue involved with Samford lately.

Transitive properties don't work in football, but I'm going to use it anyway.

Teams that are true contenders don't screw around with less talented teams. Wofford, for instance, trounced ETSU. They trounced Western Carolina. They shutout VMI (who is plucky enough to hang around good teams but not good enough to beat them).

Bad games happen. Sometimes things are not clicking. But even in those moments, when you have the more talented team, you should still be able to win the football game even if you are not at your best. To let an inferior team beat you with the season on the line is just inexcusable. You can tell me all day long that Samford has the league's best coaching staff, but that game right there tells me they don't.

[youcanbankit]

[QUOTE=PaladinFan;2462158]To put it simply, if Samford wants to be taken seriously on a national scale, you do not lose to ETSU.

But, I agree with you, Samford is developing a reputation as a paper tiger that makes a lot of noise in the preseason, but does not back it up when it matters. Wofford is the opposite. Rarely a lot of noise, but just keeps winning.[/QUOTE/]



HEHEHE!!! Give everyone a break on the ETSU loss. xlolx It was a fluke. Furman lost to Upstart Mercer in 2015. xoopsxCitadel lost to unranked Old dominion in 2013.xchinscratchx

Upsets Happen. The paper tiger Beat Furman the past few years xbangx and the Citadel is break even with Samford the past few.

Wofford is the opposite? Wofford is 1-4 the past five years versus Samford. xcrazyxBe reasonable man. xnonox

[citdog]

[QUOTE=PaladinFan;2462158]To put it simply, if Samford wants to be taken seriously on a national scale, you do not lose to ETSU.

But, I agree with you, Samford is developing a reputation as a paper tiger that makes a lot of noise in the preseason, but does not back it up when it matters. Wofford is the opposite. Rarely a lot of noise, but just keeps winning.[/QUOTE/]




HEHEHE!!! Give everyone a break on the ETSU loss. xlolx It was a fluke. Furman lost to Upstart Mercer in 2015. xoopsxCitadel lost to unranked Old dominion in 2013.xchinscratchx

Upsets Happen. The paper tiger Beat Furman the past few years xbangx and the Citadel is break even with Samford the past few.

Wofford is the opposite? Wofford is 1-4 the past five years versus Samford. xcrazyxBe reasonable man. xnonox


Old Dominion played the 2013 season with FBS level scholarships and finished 8-4. The Citadel has won 3 out of the last 4 and two in a row over samford.

[youcanbankit]

[QUOTE=youcanbankit;2462195]


Old Dominion played the 2013 season with FBS level scholarships and finished 8-4. The Citadel has won 3 out of the last 4 and two in a row over samford.

Old Dominion was the better team? I didnt think so. I thought it was an upset. Samford is 3 and 3 with the Citadel since 2011.

the citadel is sustaining more hard hits in the offseason. Two-time first-team All-America cornerback Dee Delaney's announcement Tuesday that he will leave after the spring semester for a graduate transfer season at Miami (Fla.) is especially damaging for The Citadel's 2017 outlook. Previously, second-team All-America offensive lineman Isaiah Pinson announced he will surrender his final season of eligibility to pursue a pro career, and slotback Reggie Williams and defensive linemen Kevin Graham and Travis Johnson departed the program

Whats going on with the exodus of so many of last years starters? How many now 4? 5? Plus the loss of last years seniors. Lots of opportunity ahead.

[PaladinFan]

1. Furman did not fancy itself a title contender nor did its fans think the team would go 9-2.

2. Upsets do happen. ETSU lost to Wofford 31-0. Lost to UTC 37-7. Lost to VMI 37-7. Lost to Furman 52-7. Lost to Citadel 45-10.

In other words, ETSU stunk. So, while upsets happen, if you expect this pack of hyenas to buy that Samford is going 9-2 with an army of behmoth linemen, then you'd better darn well beat the worst team in the conference, and do so with panache.

3. Wofford is chronically underestimated at the beginning of the season, and always outperforms predictions. They were picked 6th last year (behind Samford) AND lost their starting quarterback before the season started. I would wager that if you ask anyone that follows SoCon football who they would put their money on in the post season - Mike Ayers or Chris Hatcher - to a man you would get the same answer.

[citdog]

[QUOTE=citdog;2462198]

Old Dominion was the better team? I didnt think so. I thought it was an upset. Samford is 3 and 3 with the Citadel since 2011.

the citadel is sustaining more hard hits in the offseason. Two-time first-team All-America cornerback Dee Delaney's announcement Tuesday that he will leave after the spring semester for a graduate transfer season at Miami (Fla.) is especially damaging for The Citadel's 2017 outlook. Previously, second-team All-America offensive lineman Isaiah Pinson announced he will surrender his final season of eligibility to pursue a pro career, and slotback Reggie Williams and defensive linemen Kevin Graham and Travis Johnson departed the program

Whats going on with the exodus of so many of last years starters? How many now 4? 5? Plus the loss of last years seniors. Lots of opportunity ahead.

Don't deflect. We're talking about your team full of superstars and your Tom Landry clone of a coach.

[ElCid]

[QUOTE=citdog;2462198]

Old Dominion was the better team? I didnt think so. I thought it was an upset. Samford is 3 and 3 with the Citadel since 2011.



Not I really want to get into a discussion about the 2013 season, but to set the record straight....

OD played 5 FBS teams that year They went 1-4 with a couple close ones against ECU and Pitt. The win was against Idaho (not that impressive but a W). A couple blow out losses to FBS as well. We went 5-7. They were a pretty good FCS team that year and we were just mediocre. Massey had us ranked 188 in Div I. ODU was ranked 129. No, it was not an upset win at home 59-58 for them. But it was a shootout. Something that you do not expect from a TO team. They had some serious rush defense issues as we had a bunch of scoring drives under 2 minutes.

As far as Samford goes, we seem to do pretty well against them all things considered. Most of the last 6 games have been fairly close except for each having a dominating victory. But the other 4 games were decided by total of 13 points.

To get back to Samford's issues, it is really was a schizoid team this past year. How it preserved its W against Cent Ark is still a mystery. Giving up 29 points in the 4th is never good, but a W is a W. When it took everything Miss St had to beat them, I was not liking our chances very much. When it gave a 10 point lead against us with 6 minutes to play I was dumbstruck. And then the ETSU fiasco. I kept scratching my head all year regarding Samford.

[youcanbankit]

[QUOTE=youcanbankit;2462202]

Don't deflect. We're talking about your team full of superstars and your Tom Landry clone of a coach.


Not deflecting. 5 projected starters leaving. Something is happening. Whats up?

[youcanbankit]

1. Furman did not fancy itself a title contender nor did its fans think the team would go 9-2.

2. Upsets do happen. ETSU lost to Wofford 31-0. Lost to UTC 37-7. Lost to VMI 37-7. Lost to Furman 52-7. Lost to Citadel 45-10.

In other words, ETSU stunk. So, while upsets happen, if you expect this pack of hyenas to buy that Samford is going 9-2 with an army of behmoth linemen, then you'd better darn well beat the worst team in the conference, and do so with panache.

3. Wofford is chronically underestimated at the beginning of the season, and always outperforms predictions. They were picked 6th last year (behind Samford) AND lost their starting quarterback before the season started. I would wager that if you ask anyone that follows SoCon football who they would put their money on in the post season - Mike Ayers or Chris Hatcher - to a man you would get the same answer.

Mike Ayers is a good coach, but he has a tendency to have a really good year, a mediocre year, then a bad year. Then ground hog day all over again. If you ask anyone who has watched the past 5 years he is 1-4 against Samford. They will pick Samford. As far as ETSU, it happens. Its better to have an upset and still go to the playoffs anyway, than to sit at home year after year bashing the other teams that are winning. We will take the loss and be glad we learned from it. ETSU wont be a loss this year. When they beat Furman this year, prepare your self to have a vocabulary sandwich of your own words. Its funny how things work out that way sometimes. You to Cit dog! LOL

[youcanbankit]

[QUOTE=youcanbankit;2462202]

Not I really want to get into a discussion about the 2013 season, but to set the record straight....

OD played 5 FBS teams that year They went 1-4 with a couple close ones against ECU and Pitt. The win was against Idaho (not that impressive but a W). A couple blow out losses to FBS as well. We went 5-7. They were a pretty good FCS team that year and we were just mediocre. Massey had us ranked 188 in Div I. ODU was ranked 129. No, it was not an upset win at home 59-58 for them. But it was a shootout. Something that you do not expect from a TO team. They had some serious rush defense issues as we had a bunch of scoring drives under 2 minutes.

As far as Samford goes, we seem to do pretty well against them all things considered. Most of the last 6 games have been fairly close except for each having a dominating victory. But the other 4 games were decided by total of 13 points.

To get back to Samford's issues, it is really was a schizoid team this past year. How it preserved its W against Cent Ark is still a mystery. Giving up 29 points in the 4th is never good, but a W is a W. When it took everything Miss St had to beat them, I was not liking our chances very much. When it gave a 10 point lead against us with 6 minutes to play I was dumbstruck. And then the ETSU fiasco. I kept scratching my head all year regarding Samford.

You nailed it. Very Inconsistent. No run game was also obvious.

[FUBeAR]

prepare your self to have a vocabulary sandwich of your own words.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdghRwWfaOQ

[PaladinFan]

Mike Ayers is a good coach, but he has a tendency to have a really good year, a mediocre year, then a bad year. Then ground hog day all over again. If you ask anyone who has watched the past 5 years he is 1-4 against Samford. They will pick Samford. As far as ETSU, it happens. Its better to have an upset and still go to the playoffs anyway, than to sit at home year after year bashing the other teams that are winning. We will take the loss and be glad we learned from it. ETSU wont be a loss this year. When they beat Furman this year, prepare your self to have a vocabulary sandwich of your own words. Its funny how things work out that way sometimes. You to Cit dog! LOL

You are the one deflecting and missing the point of the exercise. I have said nothing of Furman. If I had made the representation that Furman would run through the SoCon and win 9 games all behind the strength of an NFL calibre offensive line, I would hope that those on this board would do their jobs and tell me I'm out of place.

This has nothing to do with Mike Ayer's record against Samford. Chris Hatcher has a career record of 58-55 at the D1 level. You say he's the best coach in the league. He's a .500 coach.

[Mocs123]

It's not just The Citadel, We lost two starters on the offensive line that graduated but still had a year of eligibility that they chose to forgo.

[ElCid]

It's not just The Citadel, We lost two starters on the offensive line that graduated but still had a year of eligibility that they chose to forgo.

It will be a crazy season this fall. A wide open race for the SOCON.

[youcanbankit]

You are the one deflecting and missing the point of the exercise. I have said nothing of Furman. If I had made the representation that Furman would run through the SoCon and win 9 games all behind the strength of an NFL calibre offensive line, I would hope that those on this board would do their jobs and tell me I'm out of place.

This has nothing to do with Mike Ayer's record against Samford. Chris Hatcher has a career record of 58-55 at the D1 level. You say he's the best coach in the league. He's a .500 coach.


I appreciate your points. They are good ones. I dont think I am missing them.

Here is why I say that Hatcher is the best coach in the SoCon...

1. Hatcher's overall record is 134 and 67.
2. He has won a national championship as a Head coach. Not sure any other coach in the SoCon has done that at any level.
3. He was Named National Coach of the Year from the American Football Coaches Association, Not sure any other coach has done that at any level.
4. He was Named Coach of the year 14 times by regional and local associations.
5. He was a two time All American as a player. You have to understand the game to win that award.
6. He won National player of the year and won the Harlon Hill trophy. Not many coaches or players do that.
7. He had two undefeated seasons back to back as a head coach. Rare.
8. He led a dismal Murray state program to their first winning season in many years.
9. He is a great recruiter, especially in Georgia, Florida, and Alabama.
10. installed the highest rated offense in the SoCon since coming to Samford.
11. Developed a quarterback which won the SoCon Offensive Player of the year in 2016.
12. In two years at Samford he led them to the playoffs for the 4th time in school history.
13. The team finished in the top 25 and will be ranked in the top 25 this year.
14. He may fall on his face, he has his flaws, but his overall resume says he is the best in the SoCon.

Who do you say has the better proven performance in the SoCon? I am open to change my mind on this. Not saying he is perfect or the best coach in the country. Who is the top coach in the SoCon if not Hatcher?

[youcanbankit]

It's not just The Citadel, We lost two starters on the offensive line that graduated but still had a year of eligibility that they chose to forgo.

And the Head Coach left. And I heard a new assistant that was hired has already left. That was a surprise to me. You would think winning programs like the Citadel and UTC would not be having an exodus like this. Don't understand it.

[Sir William]

Since the time that Samford joined the SoCon in 2008, they have yet to win the conference football championship outright. In fact, the only football championship they can claim is 2013, when they SHARED it with UTC and Furman.

During that same time frame, they have been to the playoffs twice, posting an 0-2 record and NEVER making it out of the first round.

All this talk about whose got the best head coach, offensive line, punter, etc is horse-apples. When you actually start winning the conference outright (heck, even contend for it on a somewhat regular basis) and start making some noise in the playoffs, then the rest of us will give serious thought to your speculations.

Those are the facts you can bank.

[youcanbankit]

Since the time that Samford joined the SoCon in 2008, they have yet to win the conference football championship outright. In fact, the only football championship they can claim is 2013, when they SHARED it with UTC and Furman.

During that same time frame, they have been to the playoffs twice, posting an 0-2 record and NEVER making it out of the first round.

All this talk about whose got the best head coach, offensive line, punter, etc is horse-apples. When you actually start winning the conference outright (heck, even contend for it on a somewhat regular basis) and start making some noise in the playoffs, then the rest of us will give serious thought to your speculations.

Those are the facts you can bank.

Nice. I am "banking" that one away as requested to prepare a "royal" vocabulary "horse apple" sandwich for your dining enjoyment later this year. xlolx This is the forum where we talk about such things.

I hear a lot of negativity,xblahx, but few giving any plausible information on their own teams on why they think they will win it. The best responses have been from FuBear and Paladin fan. This is a prediction. Whats your prediction on why Furman will win it? Or UTC? Or the Citadel? or Wofford? Or Mercer? Just negative vibes xnonono2x, on the prediction of Samford being positioned to win 7 games xthumbsupxwhich I think will win it, based on the league this year. No case.. just hatin on them?

There are 5 other teams with the possibility in my book of winning it. Why will one of the other 5 win it or not win it?

IMO...3 of the top 6 are having a lot of change, key player losses, average recruiting, turmoil or exodus right now. 2 of the 6, I think are 1-2 years away. That leaves Samford in 2017. I am not hating on any other team, just statin' the case. Love ya man...

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24725&stc=1

[Mocs123]

For all I know Sanford may be about to go on a NDSU like run, but they have been picked to win the SoCon by quite a few people the past few years and still haven't done it.

Hatchet is an offensive genius and was a fantastic D2 coach. Not sure if he is a fantastic D1 coach yet though.

There are lots of questions surrounding the top teams in the SoCon so I agree it could be anyone's year.

As for Chattanooga, we will know more after 8/26.

[Mocs123]

And the Head Coach left. And I heard a new assistant that was hired has already left. That was a surprise to me. You would think winning programs like the Citadel and UTC would not be having an exodus like this. Don't understand it.

Huesman left for a lot more $ though there are rumors of some friction between him and the AD (no idea if true).

Staley left to take a NFL LB job which I am sure is more $ as well.

[PaladinFan]

For all I know Sanford may be about to go on a NDSU like run, but they have been picked to win the SoCon by quite a few people the past few years and still haven't done it.

Hatchet is an offensive genius and was a fantastic D2 coach. Not sure if he is a fantastic D1 coach yet though.

There are lots of questions surrounding the top teams in the SoCon so I agree it could be anyone's year.

As for Chattanooga, we will know more after 8/26.

Here, again, offensive "geniuses" don't score only 14 points against ETSU - a team virtually everyone else in the conference hung 30, 40, or 50 points on.

I said it earlier, but Samford is effectively today's version of what Elon was 7 or 8 years ago with Scott Riddle.

It matters very little what Hatcher did at Valdosta State 10 years ago. D2 has weaker competition and fewer recruiting restrictions. Also, it is not as though he moved up to the FCS just last year. It's been 10 years.

I'm not anti-Samford, but lets all just look at the objective evidence and be reasonable about the conclusion.

[FUBeAR]

So...just for fun, I will opine on my-oh-so-humble opinion of the PLAYER talent level in the SoCon (roughly) over the past 2 years...

1) Samford
1) Chattanooga
3) CIT
4) Woffy
5) WCU
6) Furman
7) Mercer
8) VMI
9) ETSU

...and here are those Teams' average order of finish over those 2 years (excuse me Bucs fans for ranking ETSU 9th in 2015, but I can't put them anywhere else for the purpose of this exercise)...

CIT 1+1 = 2/2 = 1
Chatt 1+2 = 3/2 = 1.5
Woffy 4+2 = 6/2 = 3
Sammy 4+4 = 8/2 = 4
WCU 3+8 = 11/2 = 5.5
Mercer 6+5 = 11/2 = 5.5
Furman 6+6 = 12/2 = 6
VMI 8+8 = 16/2 = 8
ETSU 9+7 = 16/2 = 8

...then, we can determine a delta between MOSHO of their Talent Level and their Avg. Finish and, in theory, derive a Coaching Factor Ranking...

1) CIT 1+1 = 2/2 = 1-3 = -2
2) ETSU 9+7 = 16/2 = 8-9 = -1
3) Woffy 4+2 = 6/2 = 3-3 = 0
4) Mercer 6+5 = 11/2 = 5.5-5.5 = 0
5) Furman 6+6 = 12/2 = 6-6 = 0
6) VMI 8+8 = 16/2 = 8-8 = 0
7) Chatt 1+2 = 3/2 = 1.5-1 = 0.5
8) WCU 3+8 = 11/2 = 5.5-5 = 0.5
9) Sammy 4+4 = 8/2 = 4-1 = 3

...and, if you don't dispute my Talent Ranking, then I would contend that the rankings immediately above accurately reflect the Coaching Jobs done by each of the Staffs. The math is a bit quirky as a negative number indicates Results (ostensibly due to Coaching over-performance) outperformed Talent, 0 indicates Results were equal to or expected based upon Talent Level, and a positive number indicates Talent was better than the results actually realized (ostensibly due to Coaching under-performance). Despite the quirky math, the magnitude of the over or under performance, ostensibly due to Coaching is reflected in the magnitude of the number greater than or less than zero.

Hate to see CIT on top (in ANYTHING), but there is no denying the outstanding job those 2 Coaching Staffs have done down there the past 2 years. And...on the other end of the spectrum...well, y'all can read...I don't need to spell it out any further.

FWIW, and to attempt to deflect what I expect to be PaladinFan's (usual) heavy critique of my analyses...I had absolutely no idea how this analysis would turn out when I started thinking about it. I did it all in a 'quick reply,' thought through my honest talent assessment, Wikipedia'd the standings data, and used what I believe to be a relatively fair way to analyze this data. I'm not surprised at the results, but I did not structure my analysis to fit a 'narrative' that I wanted it to fit. HONESTLY!

[vestaviadude]

So...just for fun, I will opine on my-oh-so-humble opinion of the PLAYER talent level in the SoCon (roughly) over the past 2 years...

1) Samford
1) Chattanooga
3) CIT
4) Woffy
5) WCU
6) Furman
7) Mercer
8) VMI
9) ETSU

...and here are those Teams' average order of finish over those 2 years (excuse me Bucs fans for ranking ETSU 9th in 2015, but I can't put them anywhere else for the purpose of this exercise)...

CIT 1+1 = 2/2 = 1
Chatt 1+2 = 3/2 = 1.5
Woffy 4+2 = 6/2 = 3
Sammy 4+4 = 8/2 = 4
WCU 3+8 = 11/2 = 5.5
Mercer 6+5 = 11/2 = 5.5
Furman 6+6 = 12/2 = 6
VMI 8+8 = 16/2 = 8
ETSU 9+7 = 16/2 = 8

...then, we can determine a delta between MOSHO of their Talent Level and their Avg. Finish and, in theory, derive a Coaching Factor Ranking...

1) CIT 1+1 = 2/2 = 1-3 = -2
2) ETSU 9+7 = 16/2 = 8-9 = -1
3) Woffy 4+2 = 6/2 = 3-3 = 0
4) Mercer 6+5 = 11/2 = 5.5-5.5 = 0
5) Furman 6+6 = 12/2 = 6-6 = 0
6) VMI 8+8 = 16/2 = 8-8 = 0
7) Chatt 1+2 = 3/2 = 1.5-1 = 0.5
8) WCU 3+8 = 11/2 = 5.5-5 = 0.5
9) Sammy 4+4 = 8/2 = 4-1 = 3

...and, if you don't dispute my Talent Ranking, then I would contend that the rankings immediately above accurately reflect the Coaching Jobs done by each of the Staffs. The math is a bit quirky as a negative number indicates Results (ostensibly due to Coaching over-performance) outperformed Talent, 0 indicates Results were equal to or expected based upon Talent Level, and a positive number indicates Talent was better than the results actually realized (ostensibly due to Coaching under-performance). Despite the quirky math, the magnitude of the over or under performance, ostensibly due to Coaching is reflected in the magnitude of the number greater than or less than zero.

Hate to see CIT on top (in ANYTHING), but there is no denying the outstanding job those 2 Coaching Staffs have done down there the past 2 years. And...on the other end of the spectrum...well, y'all can read...I don't need to spell it out any further.

FWIW, and to attempt to deflect what I expect to be PaladinFan's (usual) heavy critique of my analyses...I had absolutely no idea how this analysis would turn out when I started thinking about it. I did it all in a 'quick reply,' thought through my honest talent assessment, Wikipedia'd the standings data, and used what I believe to be a relatively fair way to analyze this data. I'm not surprised at the results, but I did not structure my analysis to fit a 'narrative' that I wanted it to fit. HONESTLY!

I agree with everything accept the initial assessment. Samford did not have the most talent. They had the best recruiting years the past two years. I would initially rate Samford at Number 8 out of 9 on Talent both years. This year all those kids enter to begin playing and starting.

[citdog]

I agree with everything accept the initial assessment. Samford did not have the most talent. They had the best recruiting years the past two years. I would initially rate Samford at Number 8 out of 9 on Talent both years.

So you recruit worse than two military schools?

[youcanbankit]

I agree with everything accept the initial assessment. Samford did not have the most talent. They had the best recruiting years the past two years. I would initially rate Samford at Number 8 out of 9 on Talent both years. This year all those kids enter to begin playing and starting.


I mostly agree.

2015 - 7 out of 9 in 2015.
2016 - 6 out of 9 last year because so many were red-shirting, learning or out hurt.
2017 - 1st, 2nd or 3rd out of nine, but young.

Hard to tell with so many leaving the former 1st and 2nd place schools exactly where they land this year. No less than 3rd.

[SU DOG]

I do not know the answer, but I do NOT feel that our performance has been up to our level of talent the past few years. I am as loyal a fan(and alumnus) as Samford has, having followed Samford Football since 1960. I'm not meaning to be negative, but we desperately need to have a BIG SoCon run. There is just too much truth in pointing out our late season slumps, and I cannot disagree that this has been a concern. My questions are: will we finally get a running game, and be able to convert some of those 3rd down/short? Will our defense be improved enough to stop giving up way too much total offense? Will the play on the field be representative of the talent on paper?

Samford AGAIN will have incredible talent, and that is a fact. Should we be in contention for the conference crown? IMO, we definitely should.

I would like to be as optimistic as some of the SU posters on here, but I will wait to see spring training and hope that it all comes together this season. To have another 1991 year would do a lots for this old Bulldog. Hey, that was a LONG time ago, but hey, it could happen.
GO DOGS!!!!!

[The Cats]

Who is the top coach in the SoCon if not Hatcher?


My money would go with Mercer's Lamb or Wofford's Ayers.


I'd say Hatcher is about middle of the pack.

[FUBeAR]

2015 - 7 out of 9 in 2015.
2016 - 6 out of 9 last year


I would initially rate Samford at Number 8 out of 9 on Talent both years.

PREPOSTEROUS!

8 out of 9??? - Mercer's Players were mostly walk-ons and a start-up program. ETSU was a start-up program and it's fairly clear that VMI's overall talent level (while rising) has been subpar for many years. Furman's talent has also been down and WCU's O & D fronts have not been particularly strong (even in 2015). So, there's really no way you can even seriously argue that Sammy's talent level has been anything less than 4th...and that's before you consider the number of FBS Transfers, NFL Players/Prospects, and the many Pre- & Post-Season Offensive and Defensive POY's and All-Conference selections Sammy has had. My goodness, they even had a Long Snapper who was so good that he made All-SoCon as an O-Lineman even though he didn't PLAY O-Line!

Chatt is the ONLY Team that any reasonable, objective (or sane) person would even try to argue has had better talent than Sammy in the SoCon the past 2 years. So, OK...let's 'say' we put them at #2 in Talent behind Chatt, that still rates them at a 2.0 and in a distant 9th place in my Coaching Factor Ranking analysis.

[cx500d]

PREPOSTEROUS!

8 out of 9??? - Mercer's Players were mostly walk-ons and a start-up program. ETSU was a start-up program and it's fairly clear that VMI's overall talent level (while rising) has been subpar for many years. Furman's talent has also been down and WCU's O & D fronts have not been particularly strong (even in 2015). So, there's really no way you can even seriously argue that Sammy's talent level has been anything less than 4th...and that's before you consider the number of FBS Transfers, NFL Players/Prospects, and the many Pre- & Post-Season Offensive and Defensive POY's and All-Conference selections Sammy has had. My goodness, they even had a Long Snapper who was so good that he made All-SoCon as an O-Lineman even though he didn't PLAY O-Line!

Chatt is the ONLY Team that any reasonable, objective (or sane) person would even try to argue has had better talent than Sammy in the SoCon the past 2 years. So, OK...let's 'say' we put them at #2 in Talent behind Chatt, that still rates them at a 2.0 and in a distant 9th place in my Coaching Factor Ranking analysis.

Did you get that analysis from Chattown?

[FUBeAR]

So...just for fun, I will opine on my-oh-so-humble opinion of the PLAYER talent level in the SoCon (roughly) over the past 2 years...

1) Samford
1) Chattanooga
3) CIT
4) Woffy
5) WCU
6) Furman
7) Mercer
8) VMI
9) ETSU

...and here are those Teams' average order of finish over those 2 years (excuse me Bucs fans for ranking ETSU 9th in 2015, but I can't put them anywhere else for the purpose of this exercise)...

CIT 1+1 = 2/2 = 1
Chatt 1+2 = 3/2 = 1.5
Woffy 4+2 = 6/2 = 3
Sammy 4+4 = 8/2 = 4
WCU 3+8 = 11/2 = 5.5
Mercer 6+5 = 11/2 = 5.5
Furman 6+6 = 12/2 = 6
VMI 8+8 = 16/2 = 8
ETSU 9+7 = 16/2 = 8

...then, we can determine a delta between MOSHO of their Talent Level and their Avg. Finish and, in theory, derive a Coaching Factor Ranking...

1) CIT 1+1 = 2/2 = 1-3 = -2
2) ETSU 9+7 = 16/2 = 8-9 = -1
3) Woffy 4+2 = 6/2 = 3-3 = 0
4) Mercer 6+5 = 11/2 = 5.5-5.5 = 0
5) Furman 6+6 = 12/2 = 6-6 = 0
6) VMI 8+8 = 16/2 = 8-8 = 0
7) Chatt 1+2 = 3/2 = 1.5-1 = 0.5
8) WCU 3+8 = 11/2 = 5.5-5 = 0.5
9) Sammy 4+4 = 8/2 = 4-1 = 3

...and, if you don't dispute my Talent Ranking, then I would contend that the rankings immediately above accurately reflect the Coaching Jobs done by each of the Staffs. The math is a bit quirky as a negative number indicates Results (ostensibly due to Coaching over-performance) outperformed Talent, 0 indicates Results were equal to or expected based upon Talent Level, and a positive number indicates Talent was better than the results actually realized (ostensibly due to Coaching under-performance). Despite the quirky math, the magnitude of the over or under performance, ostensibly due to Coaching is reflected in the magnitude of the number greater than or less than zero.

Hate to see CIT on top (in ANYTHING), but there is no denying the outstanding job those 2 Coaching Staffs have done down there the past 2 years. And...on the other end of the spectrum...well, y'all can read...I don't need to spell it out any further.

FWIW, and to attempt to deflect what I expect to be PaladinFan's (usual) heavy critique of my analyses...I had absolutely no idea how this analysis would turn out when I started thinking about it. I did it all in a 'quick reply,' thought through my honest talent assessment, Wikipedia'd the standings data, and used what I believe to be a relatively fair way to analyze this data. I'm not surprised at the results, but I did not structure my analysis to fit a 'narrative' that I wanted it to fit. HONESTLY!

As I said, I did this in a 'Quick Reply'...so I noticed a couple of math errors in my final calculation of Woffy's & Mercer's Coach Factor Rating. I've corrected (I think) below...As I look at this now, I think it looks about how I feel subjectively with the exception that I think VMI's Coaching Staff may have performed a bit better than is reflected by this Ranking.

1) CIT 1+1 = 2/2 = 1-3 = -2
2) Mercer 6+5 = 11/2 = 5.5-7 = -1.5
3) Woffy 4+2 = 6/2 = 3-4 = -1
4) ETSU 9+7 = 16/2 = 8-9 = -1
5) Furman 6+6 = 12/2 = 6-6 = 0
6) VMI 8+8 = 16/2 = 8-8 = 0
7) Chatt 1+2 = 3/2 = 1.5-1 = 0.5
8) WCU 3+8 = 11/2 = 5.5-5 = 0.5
9) Sammy 4+4 = 8/2 = 4-1 = 3

[citdog]

My money would go with Mercer's Lamb or Wofford's Ayers.


I'd say Hatcher is about middle of the pack.

It's Mike Ayers and it has been for 15 years. HANDS DOWN. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Even when Jerry Moore was at App.

[youcanbankit]

It's Mike Ayers and it has been for 15 years. HANDS DOWN. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Even when Jerry Moore was at App.
no, no. no...

No disrespect to Mike Ayers, or you Citdog, but NO WAY! His lifetime winning percentage is 56.8%. His Wofford winning percentage 60.5% and SoCon winning percentage 59.8%. What are you talking about? That's an average 5-6 wins a year with 4-5 losses. Does 5-5 or 6-4 sound like a beast coach? I love the guy personally, but he is not the best coach in the SoCon hands down. The numbers dont match. The Citadel, Furman or UTC may have the best coach in the Conference. Time will tell. But for now....No.

I dont know why folks are so critical of Hatcher. His stats are his stats. Irregardless. I know the Samford administration understand this, and fans of the Bulldogs, though injured and hurt from previous years of disappointment, understand this program is on the rise. Its not all Hatcher, key coaches around him, program investment, Great AD at the school, the Samford Administrations support, all are assisting in the success so far. Some coaches listed below probably did not have that their first two years. Check this out...

Current/Recent SoCon Coaches Records (with at least 2 years as a head coach in the SoCon) - first 2 seasons at their current SoCon school

Wofford - Mike Ayers first 2 years in the SoCon 7-14. (33%)
UTC - Russ Huesman first 2 years in the SoCon 12-10 (55%)
Citadel - Mike Houston first 2 years in the SoCon 14-11 (56%)
Furman - Bruce Fowler first 2 years in the SoCon 9-13 (41%)
VMI - Scott Wachenheim first 2 years in the SoCon 5-17 (23%)
Mercer - Bobby Lamb (first 2 years at current position - Mercer) 11-12 (48%)
Western Carolina - Mark Speir first 2 years in the SoCon 3-20 (13%)
ETSU - Carl Torbush first 2 years in the SoCon7-15 (32%)

Samford - Chris Hatcher first 2 years in the SoCon 13-10. (57%)
*Note - Samford - Pat Sullivan, His predecessor at Samford was 10-12 (45%) in his first 2 seasons in the SoCon.*

Best in the SoCon....through the first two years. You dont have to like it, but those are the numbers. Some of those coaches did not have SEC/ACC opponents their first two years either. Why this is such an issue, is actually comical and funny. xnodx Like Gene Wilder Funny....

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24732&stc=1

[citdog]

Bro Wofford has 1100 students and no band. Ayers took an also ran D-II program and has made them a NATIONAL POWER.

[youcanbankit]

As I said, I did this in a 'Quick Reply'...so I noticed a couple of math errors in my final calculation of Woffy's & Mercer's Coach Factor Rating. I've corrected (I think) below...As I look at this now, I think it looks about how I feel subjectively with the exception that I think VMI's Coaching Staff may have performed a bit better than is reflected by this Ranking.

1) CIT 1+1 = 2/2 = 1-3 = -2
2) Mercer 6+5 = 11/2 = 5.5-7 = -1.5
3) Woffy 4+2 = 6/2 = 3-4 = -1
4) ETSU 9+7 = 16/2 = 8-9 = -1
5) Furman 6+6 = 12/2 = 6-6 = 0
6) VMI 8+8 = 16/2 = 8-8 = 0
7) Chatt 1+2 = 3/2 = 1.5-1 = 0.5
8) WCU 3+8 = 11/2 = 5.5-5 = 0.5
9) Sammy 4+4 = 8/2 = 4-1 = 3

What is this Mercer Math?....the best score at Mercer is the lowest score? xdizzyx This may explain some things. Somebody needs to tell Mercer Head Coach Lamb, the team with the highest score wins! Don't buy into this coach! Way to Go Samford....Places first with the highest score!...lol...:)

Just kidding. Nice work on this....

[youcanbankit]

Bro Wofford has 1100 students and no band. Ayers took an also ran D-II program and has made them a NATIONAL POWER.

Ayers is a decent coach no doubt. The Citadel may have the best young coach in the conference. We will know after this year. A good 3rd place finish for him would be nice....LOL

[youcanbankit]

Here, again, offensive "geniuses" don't score only 14 points against ETSU


How about...
1.) having the #1 Total Offense in the SoCon 2 years in a row or......
2.) the # 7 Total offense in 2015 and #14 total offense in the nation in 2016 or.......
3.) Hanging 41 on an SEC team.....

Does that count as an offensive genius? You know the other 11 games played? .... it was one game sir. It was a fluke.

[PaladinFan]

How about...
1.) having the #1 Total Offense in the SoCon 2 years in a row or......
2.) the # 7 Total offense in 2015 and #14 total offense in the nation in 2016 or.......
3.) Hanging 41 on an SEC team.....

Does that count as an offensive genius? You know the other 11 games played? .... it was one game sir. It was a fluke.

One game this year. Happened in 2015 as well when a bad Furman defense shut the Bulldogs out for a half as well.

I see Hatcher as a good offensive coach, but no offensive genius.

Someone always puts up the SoCon's best offense. In fact, if you look at the last five years, the SoCon's top offense puts up right at about 35 points per game (Samford twice, GSU twice, UTC once). So, Samford in 2016 is essentially doing exactly what other teams in the years' prior had done. Perhaps they were all led by offensive geniuses.

[Mocs123]

no, no. no...

No disrespect to Mike Ayers, or you Citdog, but NO WAY! His lifetime winning percentage is 56.8%. His Wofford winning percentage 60.5% and SoCon winning percentage 59.8%. What are you talking about? That's an average 5-6 wins a year with 4-5 losses. Does 5-5 or 6-4 sound like a beast coach? I love the guy personally, but he is not the best coach in the SoCon hands down. The numbers dont match. The Citadel, Furman or UTC may have the best coach in the Conference. Time will tell. But for now....No.

I dont know why folks are so critical of Hatcher. His stats are his stats. Irregardless. I know the Samford administration understand this, and fans of the Bulldogs, though injured and hurt from previous years of disappointment, understand this program is on the rise. Its not all Hatcher, key coaches around him, program investment, Great AD at the school, the Samford Administrations support, all are assisting in the success so far. Some coaches listed below probably did not have that their first two years. Check this out...

Current/Recent SoCon Coaches Records (with at least 2 years as a head coach in the SoCon) - first 2 seasons at their current SoCon school

Wofford - Mike Ayers first 2 years in the SoCon 7-14. (33%)
UTC - Russ Huesman first 2 years in the SoCon 12-10 (55%)
Citadel - Mike Houston first 2 years in the SoCon 14-11 (56%)
Furman - Bruce Fowler first 2 years in the SoCon 9-13 (41%)
VMI - Scott Wachenheim first 2 years in the SoCon 5-17 (23%)
Mercer - Bobby Lamb (first 2 years at current position - Mercer) 11-12 (48%)
Western Carolina - Mark Speir first 2 years in the SoCon 3-20 (13%)
ETSU - Carl Torbush first 2 years in the SoCon7-15 (32%)

Samford - Chris Hatcher first 2 years in the SoCon 13-10. (57%)
*Note - Samford - Pat Sullivan, His predecessor at Samford was 10-12 (45%) in his first 2 seasons in the SoCon.*

Best in the SoCon....through the first two years. You dont have to like it, but those are the numbers. Some of those coaches did not have SEC/ACC opponents their first two years either. Why this is such an issue, is actually comical and funny. xnodx Like Gene Wilder Funny....

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24732&stc=1

Did you see the Dumpster Fire that Hursman walked into? We were 1-11 the year before and had been one of the worst programs in the country for nearly 30 years. I don't think anyone in the SoCon can argue that him guiding UTC to winning 55% of his games his first two years is A LOT better coaching job than Hatcher coming into a middle of the pack SoCon team and winning 57% of his games.

[Mocs123]

Bro Wofford has 1100 students and no band. Ayers took an also ran D-II program and has made them a NATIONAL POWER.

I have always thought that Ayers does the most with the least in the SoCon. They usually have talent that is middle of the pack or worse but play smart and tough.

Sanford has had excellent skill position players in recent years.

[FUBeAR]

One game this year. Happened in 2015 as well when a bad Furman defense shut the Bulldogs out for a half as well.

...and a bunch of mostly walk-ons from Mercer, with, I believe, the statistically worst pass defense in the SoCon, held Sammy & Coach Genius to 3 points in the Final 3 quarters in Homewood on Homecoming AND Senior Day in 2016.

So...from the 2nd quarter of the Mercer game thru the 3rd quarter of the Youngstown game (10 consecutive quarters), Sammy & Coach Genius scored 24 points. 2.4 points / quarter...or 9.6 points/game, 70% of that against 2 start-up programs - an Offensive Juggernaut without equal!!!

In fact, in their dark, quiet, shadowy places, Sammy fans will admit (to themselves only), they were about 1-1/2" away from losing their final 4 games (2 of those to start-up programs), finishing 6-5 overall, 4-4 & 5th place in the SoCon, and certainly not making the playoffs.

That's the reality of this vast improvement & momentum that Sammy is carrying into 2017.

[FUBeAR]

Sanford has had excellent skill position players in recent years.

...and they have had a break-out star Rookie D-Lineman in the NFL this year, at least 4 or 5 FBS transfers in their fronts, and numerous All-SoCon selections in the trenches in the past 2 years.

I would argue that Sammy has had, CLEARLY, the absolute best talent in the SoCon in the past 2 years, but I don't want to awaken the wrath of Chattttttttown and take this thread to the usual place threads go when he takes keyboard in hand.

[youcanbankit]

One game this year. Happened in 2015 as well when a bad Furman defense shut the Bulldogs out for a half as well.

I see Hatcher as a good offensive coach, but no offensive genius.

Someone always puts up the SoCon's best offense. In fact, if you look at the last five years, the SoCon's top offense puts up right at about 35 points per game (Samford twice, GSU twice, UTC once). So, Samford in 2016 is essentially doing exactly what other teams in the years' prior had done. Perhaps they were all led by offensive geniuses.



Offensive genius is your term. The stats show he is the Best in the SoCon currently through 2 years of coaching. That's the point.

[youcanbankit]

...and a bunch of mostly walk-ons from Mercer, with, I believe, the statistically worst pass defense in the SoCon, held Sammy & Coach Genius to 3 points in the Final 3 quarters in Homewood on Homecoming AND Senior Day in 2016.

So...from the 2nd quarter of the Mercer game thru the 3rd quarter of the Youngstown game (10 consecutive quarters), Sammy & Coach Genius scored 24 points. 2.4 points / quarter...or 9.6 points/game, 70% of that against 2 start-up programs - an Offensive Juggernaut without equal!!!

In fact, in their dark, quiet, shadowy places, Sammy fans will admit (to themselves only), they were about 1-1/2" away from losing their final 4 games (2 of those to start-up programs), finishing 6-5 overall, 4-4 & 5th place in the SoCon, and certainly not making the playoffs.

That's the reality of this vast improvement & momentum that Sammy is carrying into 2017.



You could argue that they were 1-1/2" away from winning the Citadel game and Mississippi State game as well. No shade to Mercer, they played great that second half. If they were all walk on's good for them. That was a close game and needed win. Second half adjustments are a focus for Samford this year. Definitely an area of improvement for 2017.

[youcanbankit]

Did you see the Dumpster Fire that Hursman walked into? We were 1-11 the year before and had been one of the worst programs in the country for nearly 30 years. I don't think anyone in the SoCon can argue that him guiding UTC to winning 55% of his games his first two years is A LOT better coaching job than Hatcher coming into a middle of the pack SoCon team and winning 57% of his games.



Huesman did a great job. That was the point of the previous post. He's a really good coach. No shade toward Huesman or UTC. The point is that through two years, he was right behind Houston and Hatcher. Personally, when I first did the comparison, I thought Hatcher would have been #2 or #3. But the stats told a different story. No shade to any other team. Just the stats, not shade.

[youcanbankit]

I have always thought that Ayers does the most with the least in the SoCon. They usually have talent that is middle of the pack or worse but play smart and tough.

Sanford has had excellent skill position players in recent years.


Ayers is a good coach. No doubt. Good guy too. The Mocs have a good young coach coming in as well.

[youcanbankit]

...and they have had a break-out star Rookie D-Lineman in the NFL this year, at least 4 or 5 FBS transfers in their fronts, and numerous All-SoCon selections in the trenches in the past 2 years.

I would argue that Sammy has had, CLEARLY, the absolute best talent in the SoCon in the past 2 years, but I don't want to awaken the wrath of Chattttttttown and take this thread to the usual place threads go when he takes keyboard in hand.



These "All SoCon" performers, weren't All SoCon before Hatcher got there. They just were not some pool of amazing talent that no one saw that Hatcher walked into. They were coached to play differently to level the playing field against other SoCon Opponents. You take the talents of your players and make the most of it. IMO...Pat Sullivan had done a good job of getting the program moving forward. Really good guy and coach. No shade, just stats.

[PaladinFan]

Offensive genius is your term. The stats show he is the Best in the SoCon currently through 2 years of coaching. That's the point.

My point is that despite scoring more than any other team in the conference the last two years, Hatcher's record at Samford is 13-10.

I am not arguing that Samford does not have a good offense. I am just pointing out that despite bigger offensive numbers than any other team, it is not necessarily translating to winning.

[walliver]

Current/Recent SoCon Coaches Records (with at least 2 years as a head coach in the SoCon) - first 2 seasons at their current SoCon school

Wofford - Mike Ayers first 2 years in the SoCon 7-14. (33%)
...

A couple of points to consider.
1) the years represented were the schools 3d and 4th years in D-I
2) Ayers had only about 45 scholarships to work with. It is only the last 6 or 7 years that Wofford has fully funded football.
3) He has won the Eddie Robinson award taking a team with no standout players to the FCS semifinals.
Outside of football, he is a black belt in karate and fought with the Marines in Viet Nam.

Chris Hatcher coached 3 years at Georgia Southern, a team which always was a the top of the SoCon talent list, and accomplished little. He has never won a FCS playoff game. I don't think there is much comparison.
http://www.wrdw.com/sports/headlines/70714587.html

[PaladinFan]

A couple of points to consider.
1) the years represented were the schools 3d and 4th years in D-I
2) Ayers had only about 45 scholarships to work with. It is only the last 6 or 7 years that Wofford has fully funded football.
3) He has won the Eddie Robinson award taking a team with no standout players to the FCS semifinals.
Outside of football, he is a black belt in karate and fought with the Marines in Viet Nam.

Chris Hatcher coached 3 years at Georgia Southern, a team which always was a the top of the SoCon talent list, and accomplished little. He has never won a FCS playoff game. I don't think there is much comparison.
http://www.wrdw.com/sports/headlines/70714587.html

This is not even a conversation worth having. Mike Ayers demonstrated last season why he is one of the top coaches in the FCS.

[FUBeAR]

This is not even a conversation worth having. Mike Ayers demonstrated last season why he is one of the top coaches in the FCS.

I do not disagree at all. Tremendous respect for Coach Ayers and what he's done at Woffy, BUT the play calling in this series, more specifically, the formation (I believe all were from Pistol) in OT vs. Youngstown in the Quarterfinals...



2nd and 2 at YSU3
8-J.Newman to YSU 2 for 1 yard (7-K.Bishop).


3rd and 1 at YSU2
7-L.Long to YSU 2 for no gain (42-A.Dellovade).


4th and 1 at YSU2
8-J.Newman to YSU 3, FUMBLES. out of bounds at the YSU 3.

This play is at 13:25 of the video below



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unR8jbChshA

...just made my heart hurt! I was a Terrier (that day) and this play calling reminds me of what the Seahawks and Falcons did to lose recent Super Bowls.

Don't snap the ball back 5 yards. Get under Center and put the ball in the dang End Zone...and then go beat EWU in the Semi's and JMU in the Championship game!!!

[PaladinFan]

It was an interesting call. I don't mind a midline option in that scenario, but I agree, I don't love it out of the shotgun there. The defense is crammed in pretty tight, and running it out of the shotgun just gives the defense a better look at it.

Hard to tell from the vantage point, but it looks like YSU already had Wofford outflanked at the snap. Wofford is running to the weak side of their formation, where they have a center, guard, and tackle. It looks like YSU has four men lined up to the weakside of the ball. So, at the snap Wofford was already out numbered out there. I also don't love leaving a WR on the edge in what will essentially amount to a struggle for position. Wofford isn't going to throw to that guy, everyone knows it, and the YSU defender basically just uses the Terrier receiver as another obstacle on the field.

I will give credit to the YSU linebacker, though. He came in there like a missile and get to the QB disrupting the pitch. I do think, though, that a half beat earlier on the pitch and Long may well score.

[walliver]

I do not disagree at all. Tremendous respect for Coach Ayers and what he's done at Woffy, BUT the play calling in this series, more specifically, the formation (I believe all were from Pistol) in OT vs. Youngstown in the Quarterfinals...



2nd and 2 at YSU3
8-J.Newman to YSU 2 for 1 yard (7-K.Bishop).


3rd and 1 at YSU2
7-L.Long to YSU 2 for no gain (42-A.Dellovade).


4th and 1 at YSU2
8-J.Newman to YSU 3, FUMBLES. out of bounds at the YSU 3.

This play is at 13:25 of the video below



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unR8jbChshA

...just made my heart hurt! I was a Terrier (that day) and this play calling reminds me of what the Seahawks and Falcons did to lose recent Super Bowls.

Don't snap the ball back 5 yards. Get under Center and put the ball in the dang End Zone...and then go beat EWU in the Semi's and JMU in the Championship game!!!

We had a lot of problems with our goal-line offense last year. I don't know if it was just stubbornness or a lack of confidence in our passing game.

[Cat-in-GA]

*sigh* I wish I had something to offer about WCU's chances in the Socon this year, but I made the mistake last year of being too optimistic. I sure hope our defensive woes are behind us.

[PaladinFan]

We had a lot of problems with our goal-line offense last year. I don't know if it was just stubbornness or a lack of confidence in our passing game.

I'm sure there is some study on this, but I imagine the option isn't great on the goal line. The defense has everyone up front, Wofford is zero threat to throw the ball in that situation, and the ball has to go through so many sets of hands, thereby increasing the likelihood for a screw up.

Is Wofford's complete aversion to the forward pass a matter of confidence or philosophy?

[walliver]

I'm sure there is some study on this, but I imagine the option isn't great on the goal line. The defense has everyone up front, Wofford is zero threat to throw the ball in that situation, and the ball has to go through so many sets of hands, thereby increasing the likelihood for a screw up.

Is Wofford's complete aversion to the forward pass a matter of confidence or philosophy?
To some extent it is a little of both. Our top two QB's, Jacks and Butler, were good passers and there were plans of throwing it more last year. Goodson was more erratic, he made good throws and then bad throws including a sequence in the Citadel playoff game where he threw an interception, the Citadel gave it back on the next play, and then he threw another interception on the next play.
We did try throwing a pass on a 2 point conversion attempt that would have tied the game against Samford but it was intercepted - maybe that's why we never threw a goal-line pass again. I still don't know why we didn't try to run it in. With the game on the line, it's usually best to do what you best.
Newman only completed one pass last year, but he played very sparingly prior to the Citadel playoff game (he was supposed to have redshirted, but in the end was the last man standing).

[youcanbankit]

To some extent it is a little of both. Our top two QB's, Jacks and Butler, were good passers and there were plans of throwing it more last year. Goodson was more erratic, he made good throws and then bad throws including a sequence in the Citadel playoff game where he threw an interception, the Citadel gave it back on the next play, and then he threw another interception on the next play.
We did try throwing a pass on a 2 point conversion attempt that would have tied the game against Samford but it was intercepted - maybe that's why we never threw a goal-line pass again. I still don't know why we didn't try to run it in. With the game on the line, it's usually best to do what you best.
Newman only completed one pass last year, but he played very sparingly prior to the Citadel playoff game (he was supposed to have redshirted, but in the end was the last man standing).


Great Job representing the SoCon last year! Wofford showed a lot of character in the playoffs. Great run by the terriers.

[FUBeAR]

I'm sure there is some study on this, but I imagine the option isn't great on the goal line. The defense has everyone up front, Wofford is zero threat to throw the ball in that situation, and the ball has to go through so many sets of hands, thereby increasing the likelihood for a screw up.

Is Wofford's complete aversion to the forward pass a matter of confidence or philosophy?

You can give yourself A LOT of options on the Goal Line without running 'the option.'

For example, back in the day, FU ran Toss Sweep on Goal Line & Short Yardage pretty much every time. It was going to 1 side or the other and the Defense knew it....BUT...they (the D) still couldn't be right because of the blocking techniques deployed and the freedom (and quality) of the running backs carrying the ball. Those Toss Sweeps were just as likely to go over the 0/1 hole as they were the 8/9 - LOTS of Options. It all depended on how the Defensive PLAYERS reacted to the OLine's Blocks and how ATHLETIC the O-Linemen were to determine where the 'seam' was going to open up. Didn't matter though, cuz whatever they did, they just "cain't be right." I know that (Toss Sweep on GL/SY) is out of 'fashion' these days, but it would still work with ATHLETIC O-Linemen and RB's with very good vision & 'active patience.' And that's just 1 example of an 'option' that works in GL/SY.

PowerRead is also a good GL/SY Play & if you're QB is special, you can run PowerRead with a PitchMan (I guess that is 'the option' then) and/or with an RPO tagged slant or WR Screen if you run it into a 2 WR side.

FB Belly with G-Blocking and p/s orbit motion is another 'option' play that works well on GL/SY - RB can bull in tight behind C & p/s OT or jump in p/s OG's pocket and read the Kick or Log block on the edge Defender OR QB can reverse out and pitch to orbit motion OR b/s TE just might be left uncovered for a pop pass if those other options aren't selected.

Lots of non-option options. 3rd/4th & 3 or less should be converted 100% of the time. If an Offense doesn't believe that, they won't win close games.

NOTE: on those Toss Sweeps the QB was under Center and the TB's were running down hill when they caught the ball. Yeah, it WAS pitched back about a net of 3 yards, maybe 4, but that's a lot different than snapping it to a QB who is standing static 5 yards behind the LOS.

[longtimemocfan]

I appreciate your points. They are good ones. I dont think I am missing them.

Here is why I say that Hatcher is the best coach in the SoCon...

1. Hatcher's overall record is 134 and 67.
2. He has won a national championship as a Head coach. Not sure any other coach in the SoCon has done that at any level.
3. He was Named National Coach of the Year from the American Football Coaches Association, Not sure any other coach has done that at any level.
4. He was Named Coach of the year 14 times by regional and local associations.
5. He was a two time All American as a player. You have to understand the game to win that award.
6. He won National player of the year and won the Harlon Hill trophy. Not many coaches or players do that.
7. He had two undefeated seasons back to back as a head coach. Rare.
8. He led a dismal Murray state program to their first winning season in many years.
9. He is a great recruiter, especially in Georgia, Florida, and Alabama.
10. installed the highest rated offense in the SoCon since coming to Samford.
11. Developed a quarterback which won the SoCon Offensive Player of the year in 2016.
12. In two years at Samford he led them to the playoffs for the 4th time in school history.
13. The team finished in the top 25 and will be ranked in the top 25 this year.
14. He may fall on his face, he has his flaws, but his overall resume says he is the best in the SoCon.

Who do you say has the better proven performance in the SoCon? I am open to change my mind on this. Not saying he is perfect or the best coach in the country. Who is the top coach in the SoCon if not Hatcher?

How many conference titles has hatcher won since elevating to the FCS level ? I believe the answer is 0.

[longtimemocfan]

Huesman left for a lot more $ though there are rumors of some friction between him and the AD (no idea if true).

Staley left to take a NFL LB job which I am sure is more $ as well.

No rumor to it. Definitely a fact.

[PaladinFan]

To some extent it is a little of both. Our top two QB's, Jacks and Butler, were good passers and there were plans of throwing it more last year. Goodson was more erratic, he made good throws and then bad throws including a sequence in the Citadel playoff game where he threw an interception, the Citadel gave it back on the next play, and then he threw another interception on the next play.
We did try throwing a pass on a 2 point conversion attempt that would have tied the game against Samford but it was intercepted - maybe that's why we never threw a goal-line pass again. I still don't know why we didn't try to run it in. With the game on the line, it's usually best to do what you best.
Newman only completed one pass last year, but he played very sparingly prior to the Citadel playoff game (he was supposed to have redshirted, but in the end was the last man standing).

I do find that surprising though. Wofford seems to recruit actual QBs to run their offense, instead of converted RBs like many option teams. I am just always surprised they don't make passing more a part of their offense.

Now, Wofford did make a couple big passes to beat Furman this past season. I guess if you are Furman, if Wofford has to resort to trying to beat you using double reverse passes, you have to feel like you were doing an OK job against the option. Unfortunately we were really susceptible to that type of thing last year, and Wofford took advantage of it.

[walliver]

The double reverse pass is one of our basic plays and is generally run once or twice a game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[youcanbankit]

How many conference titles has hatcher won since elevating to the FCS level ? I believe the answer is 0.

You read the thread.....Who do you think the best Coach is in the SoCon, if not Hatcher? IMO....He gets the title in 2017.

[Mocs123]

We have some new blood in the conference so we really know nothing about Arth or Hendrix, but at this point I think they both will do well.

Mercer's Lamb has 1 fcs Conf championship.

The Citadels Brent Thompson has 1

Mike Ayers has 4.

[longtimemocfan]

Their is no question Hatcher is a good offensive coach. If he wins the title this year and makes a playoff run I'll take my hat off to him. In all honesty Huesman had the same dilemma that Hatcher does. Huesman is a defensive coach that primarily has to rely on a good coordinator to run the offense for him. If Hatcher wants to win the conference on a consistent basis he's going to have to have a good defensive coordinator. It also doesn't help his defensive cause when your running up tempo. You don't get production just a few drives out of your offense it's putting the defense on short rest.
The best coach especially from a scheme stand point I'd have to give it to Mike Ayers. He handed to us on a platter this year. Very well coached team.

[youcanbankit]

We have some new blood in the conference so we really know nothing about Arth or Hendrix, but at this point I think they both will do well.

Mercer's Lamb has 1 fcs Conf championship.

The Citadels Brent Thompson has 1

Mike Ayers has 4.



Wow. Disagree with this metric. Wins and losses dont matter? NFL Players dont matter? Just 1 conference championship every 7-10 years? Now that's a good one. xnutsx

[youcanbankit]

Their is no question Hatcher is a good offensive coach. If he wins the title this year and makes a playoff run I'll take my hat off to him. In all honesty Huesman had the same dilemma that Hatcher does. Huesman is a defensive coach that primarily has to rely on a good coordinator to run the offense for him. If Hatcher wants to win the conference on a consistent basis he's going to have to have a good defensive coordinator. It also doesn't help his defensive cause when your running up tempo. You don't get production just a few drives out of your offense it's putting the defense on short rest.
The best coach especially from a scheme stand point I'd have to give it to Mike Ayers. He handed to us on a platter this year. Very well coached team.


Excellent Points.

[kdinva]

It also doesn't help his defensive cause when your running up tempo. You don't get production just a few drives out of your offense it's putting the defense on short rest.


I heard second-hand that Coach Wach may abandon the"no-huddle" as well......to give the defense more rest....

[PaladinFan]

Their is no question Hatcher is a good offensive coach. If he wins the title this year and makes a playoff run I'll take my hat off to him. In all honesty Huesman had the same dilemma that Hatcher does. Huesman is a defensive coach that primarily has to rely on a good coordinator to run the offense for him. If Hatcher wants to win the conference on a consistent basis he's going to have to have a good defensive coordinator. It also doesn't help his defensive cause when your running up tempo. You don't get production just a few drives out of your offense it's putting the defense on short rest.
The best coach especially from a scheme stand point I'd have to give it to Mike Ayers. He handed to us on a platter this year. Very well coached team.

I do not think Samford's issue is not having a solid defensive coordinator. Samford, I think, has an issue that is sort of systemic with teams that opt to run that type of offense. No matter how talented their defense might be, as a philosophical tenet of the head coach, they will never practice against tough running teams. They will further be asked to run back on the field over and over again, as the offense wants to move as fast as possible. I think you would be hard pressed to find an "air raid" team that also has a stout defense. There is a reason for that, I think.

Look at some of the games they lost.

- Against Citadel, Samford held the ball for 21 minutes to Citadel's 38. Citadel ran the ball 77 times on 89 plays. Samford's defense was on the field for over 20 more plays than Citadel's was.
- Against ETSU, Samford held the ball for only 18 minutes compared to ETSU's 41. ETSU ran 21 more plays (even in a low scoring game)
- Against UTC, Samford held the ball for 20 minutes compared to UTC's 39.

Samford is going to score points, but defensively they just stay on the field too long. In the Citadel game, what do you think it is like for a defense to be on the field for over a full quarter longer than your offense and face 77 rushing attempts? It doesn't matter how your defensive coordinator schemes or how talented the players, they are just asked to be out there twice as much as the offense and hold wall against a league full of really tough rushing teams. It is a big ask if the offense just isn't completely clicking.

I realize some of the "air raid" philosophy is to move fast and put pressure on the defense. That may be, but I think you end up sacrificing those gains by subjecting your defense to constantly being on the field.

I see Samford in much the same way I saw UTC a few years ago. If they would modify what they do offensively slightly, slow it down some, run the ball, stop the run, I think the whole team would be better. Hard to break old habits, though.

[Mocs123]

Wow. Disagree with this metric. Wins and losses dont matter? NFL Players dont matter? Just 1 conference championship every 7-10 years? Now that's a good one. xnutsx

Hatcher has been a D1 coach for 10 years with 0 conference championships. He has never won a D1 conference coach of the year.

Wins and losses matter but not all wins and losses are equal. Winning when it counts means winning championships and playoffs to me.

Ayers has won four conference championships in 23 years and gone to the playoffs 6 times finishing in the top 10 four times and the top 25 nine times. He was also national fcs coach of the year in 2003 and is a 5x SoCon coach of the year winner.

I'm not saying I would trade Hatcher for Ayers as he is 68 and I wonder how much longer he will coach, but he has had a pretty accomplished FCS career.

[Mocs123]

Number of games as an FCS HC Hatcher is #2 behind Ayers (which surprised me)

Thompson 10-1 91%
Ayers 150-105 59%.
Lamb 62-44 58%
Hatcher 58-55 51%
Spier 18-34 35%
Torbush 7-15 32%
Wachenheim 5-17 23%
Arth 0-0
Hendrix 0-0

Conf championships (FCS HC)
Ayers 4
Lamb 1
Thompson 1

Playoff appearances (Fcs)
Ayers 7
Lamb 4
Thompson 1
Hatcher 1

Coach of the year awards (fcs conferences)
Ayers 5
Lamb 1
Thompson 1

Not sure how you make the case that he is the best coach in the conference.

[walliver]

I do not think Samford's issue is not having a solid defensive coordinator. Samford, I think, has an issue that is sort of systemic with teams that opt to run that type of offense. No matter how talented their defense might be, as a philosophical tenet of the head coach, they will never practice against tough running teams. They will further be asked to run back on the field over and over again, as the offense wants to move as fast as possible. I think you would be hard pressed to find an "air raid" team that also has a stout defense. There is a reason for that, I think.

Look at some of the games they lost.

- Against Citadel, Samford held the ball for 21 minutes to Citadel's 38. Citadel ran the ball 77 times on 89 plays. Samford's defense was on the field for over 20 more plays than Citadel's was.
- Against ETSU, Samford held the ball for only 18 minutes compared to ETSU's 41. ETSU ran 21 more plays (even in a low scoring game)
- Against UTC, Samford held the ball for 20 minutes compared to UTC's 39.

Samford is going to score points, but defensively they just stay on the field too long. In the Citadel game, what do you think it is like for a defense to be on the field for over a full quarter longer than your offense and face 77 rushing attempts? It doesn't matter how your defensive coordinator schemes or how talented the players, they are just asked to be out there twice as much as the offense and hold wall against a league full of really tough rushing teams. It is a big ask if the offense just isn't completely clicking.

I realize some of the "air raid" philosophy is to move fast and put pressure on the defense. That may be, but I think you end up sacrificing those gains by subjecting your defense to constantly being on the field.

I see Samford in much the same way I saw UTC a few years ago. If they would modify what they do offensively slightly, slow it down some, run the ball, stop the run, I think the whole team would be better. Hard to break old habits, though.

I agree. I have watched the majority of Clemson games on TV the last two years, and there have been many games where a tired defense has to hang on to win after a 4th quarter meltdown.

In Hatcher's defense, a suspect he would have turned GSU program around if he had stayed long enough to get enough of his type of players into the program. He did have some trouble recruiting at GSU as D-I academic standards are higher than D2. He has been at Sammy long enough that he should have a number of his people in place. If he does well and wins the conference and advances in the playoffs, then he may earn the title of best coach in the SoCon, but it is quite unreasonable to award him this title based on future performance.

[kdinva]

So, if Hatcher does not win a combined 18 reg. season games in '17 and '18, he's gone?

[FUBeAR]

He did have some trouble recruiting at GSU as D-I academic standards are higher than D2.

GaSou has academic standards? I, personally, know some non-athlete kids that have attended there who couldn't spell "Our House" if you spotted 'em the 1st 7 letters.

Well...they might have been able to, if they were sober, but I never saw them in that condition.

[FUBeAR]

Playoff appearances (Fcs)
Ayers 7
Lamb 4
Thompson 1
Hatcher 1 (by the hair of his chinny-chin-chin)

FIFY

[youcanbankit]

I do not think Samford's issue is not having a solid defensive coordinator. Samford, I think, has an issue that is sort of systemic with teams that opt to run that type of offense. No matter how talented their defense might be, as a philosophical tenet of the head coach, they will never practice against tough running teams. They will further be asked to run back on the field over and over again, as the offense wants to move as fast as possible. I think you would be hard pressed to find an "air raid" team that also has a stout defense. There is a reason for that, I think.

Look at some of the games they lost.

- Against Citadel, Samford held the ball for 21 minutes to Citadel's 38. Citadel ran the ball 77 times on 89 plays. Samford's defense was on the field for over 20 more plays than Citadel's was.
- Against ETSU, Samford held the ball for only 18 minutes compared to ETSU's 41. ETSU ran 21 more plays (even in a low scoring game)
- Against UTC, Samford held the ball for 20 minutes compared to UTC's 39.

Samford is going to score points, but defensively they just stay on the field too long. In the Citadel game, what do you think it is like for a defense to be on the field for over a full quarter longer than your offense and face 77 rushing attempts? It doesn't matter how your defensive coordinator schemes or how talented the players, they are just asked to be out there twice as much as the offense and hold wall against a league full of really tough rushing teams. It is a big ask if the offense just isn't completely clicking.

I realize some of the "air raid" philosophy is to move fast and put pressure on the defense. That may be, but I think you end up sacrificing those gains by subjecting your defense to constantly being on the field.

I see Samford in much the same way I saw UTC a few years ago. If they would modify what they do offensively slightly, slow it down some, run the ball, stop the run, I think the whole team would be better. Hard to break old habits, though.

You mean like Clemson, Washington, Ohio State? They all run a form of the no huddle, Spread type offense? I think the key is having depth on defense and a great coordinator. I hear Furman is going to a version of the old Wing T.

[youcanbankit]

Number of games as an FCS HC Hatcher is #2 behind Ayers (which surprised me)

Thompson 10-1 91%
Ayers 150-105 59%.
Lamb 62-44 58%
Hatcher 58-55 51%
Spier 18-34 35%
Torbush 7-15 32%
Wachenheim 5-17 23%
Arth 0-0
Hendrix 0-0

Conf championships (FCS HC)
Ayers 4
Lamb 1
Thompson 1

Playoff appearances (Fcs)
Ayers 7
Lamb 4
Thompson 1
Hatcher 1

Coach of the year awards (fcs conferences)
Ayers 5
Lamb 1
Thompson 1

Not sure how you make the case that he is the best coach in the conference.

Easy....
Current/Recent SoCon Coaches Records (with at least 2 years as a head coach in the SoCon) - first 2 seasons at their current SoCon school

Wofford - Mike Ayers first 2 years in the SoCon 7-14. (33%)
UTC - Russ Huesman first 2 years in the SoCon 12-10 (55%)
Citadel - Mike Houston first 2 years in the SoCon 14-11 (56%)
Furman - Bruce Fowler first 2 years in the SoCon 9-13 (41%)
VMI - Scott Wachenheim first 2 years in the SoCon 5-17 (23%)
Mercer - Bobby Lamb (first 2 years at current position - Mercer) 11-12 (48%)
Western Carolina - Mark Speir first 2 years in the SoCon 3-20 (13%)
ETSU - Carl Torbush first 2 years in the SoCon7-15 (32%)

Samford - Chris Hatcher first 2 years in the SoCon 13-10. (57%)
*Note - Samford - Pat Sullivan, His predecessor at Samford was 10-12 (45%) in his first 2 seasons in the SoCon.*

Best in the SoCon....through the first two years.

[PaladinFan]

You mean like Clemson, Washington, Ohio State? They all run a form of the no huddle, Spread type offense? I think the key is having depth on defense and a great coordinator. I hear Furman is going to a version of the old Wing T.

You keep throwing out college offenses that do not do what Samford does. Clemson

Samford is 114th out of 122 teams in rushing per game. One of only 11 teams that averaged fewer than 100 yards per game.

Ohio State runs for 245 yards a game. Washington for nearly 200 yards a game. Clemson 170. I am not completely sure why you compare their offense to Samford (notwithstanding that they are some of the nation's biggest most prestigious programs).

[PaladinFan]

Easy....
Current/Recent SoCon Coaches Records (with at least 2 years as a head coach in the SoCon) - first 2 seasons at their current SoCon school

Wofford - Mike Ayers first 2 years in the SoCon 7-14. (33%)
UTC - Russ Huesman first 2 years in the SoCon 12-10 (55%)
Citadel - Mike Houston first 2 years in the SoCon 14-11 (56%)
Furman - Bruce Fowler first 2 years in the SoCon 9-13 (41%)
VMI - Scott Wachenheim first 2 years in the SoCon 5-17 (23%)
Mercer - Bobby Lamb (first 2 years at current position - Mercer) 11-12 (48%)
Western Carolina - Mark Speir first 2 years in the SoCon 3-20 (13%)
ETSU - Carl Torbush first 2 years in the SoCon7-15 (32%)

Samford - Chris Hatcher first 2 years in the SoCon 13-10. (57%)
*Note - Samford - Pat Sullivan, His predecessor at Samford was 10-12 (45%) in his first 2 seasons in the SoCon.*

Best in the SoCon....through the first two years.

This is largely a non sequitur

Huseman is no longer the coach at UTC
Fowler is no longer the coach at Furman
Houston is no longer at the Citadel (who incidentally won a national title his first year at James Madison)

You qualify Bobby Lamb by being at Mercer, but ignore for the purposes of your argument that he was 14-9 in his first two seasons at Furman.

Even assuming that your argument is compelling by referencing former head coaches spread across 20 years, you overlook some critical points. Along with Hatcher, perhaps only Bobby Lamb in 2002 took over a winning established program at the FCS level. Most of those guys inherited losing football teams or complete startups. Hatcher took over a borderline playoff team. None of those other guys with the exception of Lamb at Furman took over a program nearly that good.

When Pat Sullivan took over Samford, they were transitioning from the OVC into the much tougher Southern Conference. He did not inherit the team Hatcher did.

[PaladinFan]

You mean like Clemson, Washington, Ohio State? They all run a form of the no huddle, Spread type offense? I think the key is having depth on defense and a great coordinator. I hear Furman is going to a version of the old Wing T.

I am not sure anyone quite knows what Furman is going to run on offense.

You try to piece together things from interviews. I do think Furman is going to feature a run heavy offense, though not specifically the "wing-t." Coach Hendrix often talks about the ability to throw the ball, something Air Force would do successfully with high percentage and efficient throws. I expect they will be out of the shot gun a good bit as well.

If I had to wager, I would say that Furman's offense is going to look a lot like what the Paladins ran prior to 2008. In 2008 we sort of abandoned the ground game roots in favor of more of a spread look, and never went back with the exception of perhaps 2011 (Chris Forcier's senior year). I expect with Hendrix, you are going to see Furman go back to what they did 15-20 years ago, where they feature a heavy rushing attack and have the QB throw it 12-15 times a game.

[youcanbankit]

You keep throwing out college offenses that do not do what Samford does. Clemson

Samford is 114th out of 122 teams in rushing per game. One of only 11 teams that averaged fewer than 100 yards per game.

Ohio State runs for 245 yards a game. Washington for nearly 200 yards a game. Clemson 170. I am not completely sure why you compare their offense to Samford (notwithstanding that they are some of the nation's biggest most prestigious programs).

Same offense - primarily. Spread and no huddle alot. Single back or empty backfield. 3-5 WR sets. All were same type of modern offenses....Except Samford could not run the ball effectively. Same formations, plays almost identical. Personnel...Not so much. O-line and running back changes will make this much more effective this year and reduce time the defense spends on the field. Hopefully will help. .

[youcanbankit]

This is largely a non sequitur

Huseman is no longer the coach at UTC
Fowler is no longer the coach at Furman
Houston is no longer at the Citadel (who incidentally won a national title his first year at James Madison)

You qualify Bobby Lamb by being at Mercer, but ignore for the purposes of your argument that he was 14-9 in his first two seasons at Furman.

Even assuming that your argument is compelling by referencing former head coaches spread across 20 years, you overlook some critical points. Along with Hatcher, perhaps only Bobby Lamb in 2002 took over a winning established program at the FCS level. Most of those guys inherited losing football teams or complete startups. Hatcher took over a borderline playoff team. None of those other guys with the exception of Lamb at Furman took over a program nearly that good.

When Pat Sullivan took over Samford, they were transitioning from the OVC into the much tougher Southern Conference. He did not inherit the team Hatcher did.

Definition:
The existing coach at each school they are currently coaching at (In The SoCON) with at least two years experience there. If there was a coaching change and the current coach had been there less than two years, the last coach was used who had two years. Simple. Hatcher has two years under his belt. Apples to Apples and used the most relevant recent numbers.

You make a good point....Tougher roads their first two years , what they faced, etc., programs inherited can be debated. Each of us (including me on Hatcher) will have our violins playingxviolinx, on why each of our coaches had a tougher hill to climb. We would also argue some of those schools had a better tradition for being a football school versus basketball or baseball school, recruits were in the wings or not, key losses that happened before the season began, and that some had better existing internal processes, support and facilities than others. Its definitely debatable. But most all of these coaches had their own hill to climb. There is no cake walk in the SoCon. Its definitely a debatable point.

[youcanbankit]

I am not sure anyone quite knows what Furman is going to run on offense.

You try to piece together things from interviews. I do think Furman is going to feature a run heavy offense, though not specifically the "wing-t." Coach Hendrix often talks about the ability to throw the ball, something Air Force would do successfully with high percentage and efficient throws. I expect they will be out of the shot gun a good bit as well.

If I had to wager, I would say that Furman's offense is going to look a lot like what the Paladins ran prior to 2008. In 2008 we sort of abandoned the ground game roots in favor of more of a spread look, and never went back with the exception of perhaps 2011 (Chris Forcier's senior year). I expect with Hendrix, you are going to see Furman go back to what they did 15-20 years ago, where they feature a heavy rushing attack and have the QB throw it 12-15 times a game.

I am hearing a Wing-T flavor & approach. That could be an interesting change that may match the personnel better at Furman. Don't know, could be totally off base, but I think he had success with that in the past.

[youcanbankit]

FIFY



So true. Samford fans still infuriated xflamemadx xpissedx on the ETSU loss. But it says a lot that the NCAA selection viewed their complete body of work xsmileyclapx. That was a close one xprayxfor sure. Just what the doctor ordered I think. Once you have tasted the playoffs it drives you to get back and go further.

[citdog]

I am hearing a Wing-T flavor & approach. That could be an interesting change that may match the personnel better at Furman. Don't know, could be totally off base, but I think he had success with that in the past.


furman sucks

[PaladinFan]

I am hearing a Wing-T flavor & approach. That could be an interesting change that may match the personnel better at Furman. Don't know, could be totally off base, but I think he had success with that in the past.

I think the systems change on both defense and offense will fit Furman's personnel.

I expect you will see Furman out of the wing/flexbone. I expect you will see them run a good bit out of the shotgun, which is a common look in Air Force's system as well as George Quarles Maryville system. I expect the offense to run no huddle, and use their athletes to create matchup and personnel problems for the defense.

From 30,000 feet, I think this is one of the more athletic Furman teams from a pure speed standpoint than I can remember. Several of the key contributors on the offense can absolutely fly. What is yet to be determined is whether we just have a bunch of track stars, or whether we have football players that can really run.

[FUBeAR]

I am hearing a Wing-T flavor & approach. Yes, absolutely correct - I just watched Spring Practice and the 'Dins spent 100% of the time working on Buck Sweep, Sally, and the Inside Double Handoff Plays. It appears as if they have swallowed whole the Playbook of the 2009 Lowndes County Vikings. Wait til the SoCon gets a taste of South Georgia High School Football!

[walliver]

Yes, absolutely correct - I just watched Spring Practice and the 'Dins spent 100% of the time working on Buck Sweep, Sally, and the Inside Double Handoff Plays. It appears as if they have swallowed whole the Playbook of the 2009 Lowndes County Vikings. Wait til the SoCon gets a taste of South Georgia High School Football!

That's a big change from the Louis Ivory power run game.

[kdinva]

I just watched Spring Practice and the 'Dins spent 100% of the time working on Buck Sweep, Sally, and the Inside Double Handoff Plays. It appears as if they have swallowed whole the Playbook of the 2009 Lowndes County Vikings.

Similar to Tubby Raymond & Delaware in the 1970's?

[PaladinFan]

Yes, absolutely correct - I just watched Spring Practice and the 'Dins spent 100% of the time working on Buck Sweep, Sally, and the Inside Double Handoff Plays. It appears as if they have swallowed whole the Playbook of the 2009 Lowndes County Vikings. Wait til the SoCon gets a taste of South Georgia High School Football!

It isn't true South Georgia football unless the quarterback attempts two passes and misses the target 10 yards wide and 5 feet too high.

Also does not count if there are no fire ant mounds on the playing surface.

[citdog]

It isn't true South Georgia football unless the quarterback attempts two passes and misses the target 10 yards wide and 5 feet too high.

Also does not count if there are no fire ant mounds on the playing surface.

And nobody is schtupping their first cousin under the bleachers.

[FUBeAR]

Similar to Tubby Raymond & Delaware in the 1970's?

Exactly - except it's called the "That there Wang-T" in South Georgia instead of "The Delaware Wing-T"

I'm wondering if Coach Hendrix is going to convert the helmets to the Wing-Style of Michigan & Delaware to complete this full Wang-T implementation that youcanspankit is proclaiming...or maybe he'll just bring back this Furman uniform style from the 1920's instead.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5a/00/bd/5a00bd61847ebc378f61397aa79878f7.jpg

[youcanbankit]

Exactly - except it's called the "That there Wang-T" in South Georgia instead of "The Delaware Wing-T"

I'm wondering if Coach Hendrix is going to convert the helmets to the Wing-Style of Michigan & Delaware to complete this full Wang-T implementation that youcanspankit is proclaiming...or maybe he'll just bring back this Furman uniform style from the 1920's instead.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5a/00/bd/5a00bd61847ebc378f61397aa79878f7.jpg


fatbear- you aint right....

- - - Updated - - -


Yes, absolutely correct - I just watched Spring Practice and the 'Dins spent 100% of the time working on Buck Sweep, Sally, and the Inside Double Handoff Plays. It appears as if they have swallowed whole the Playbook of the 2009 Lowndes County Vikings. Wait til the SoCon gets a taste of South Georgia High School Football!


oooooohhhhhhweeee!

[vestaviadude]

Its going to be a tight SoCon this year.

[PaladinFan]

Its going to be a tight SoCon this year.

Lot of teams have question marks, and I'm not sure anyone looks head and shoulders the favorite at this point. Just some thoughts.

UTC loses some key (really key) players and is breaking in a new coaching staff who does not have a lot of experience at this level.

Furman is coming off several down years, but has brought in some guys that appear to know what they are doing. Still, installing a new offense and defense will bring a learning curve on both sides of the ball.

The Citadel lost some of their key pieces with somewhat surprising departures. Hard to replace those guys.

Samford, as we have beaten to death, has a talented roster but has not demonstrated the ability to win a big game late in the year, stop the run, or keep other teams from scoring.

Wofford should be in a solid position, but still has some lingering depth questions. Were they playing with house money last season?

ETSU showed flashes of being something other than a doormat last year, but do they make significant strides?

Mercer lost a lot of players including a guy who (I think) has started close to 50 games at QB. They return some playmakers, but lose a lot of key pieces.

WCU was abysmal on defense last season, but showed impressive flashes on offense. Can they bring the defense up to par to pair with a talented offensive group?

VMI is losing their best player and QB. I think there's an open issue on whether they can even be moderately successful running their offensive system without him.

[walliver]

Lot of teams have question marks, and I'm not sure anyone looks head and shoulders the favorite at this point. Just some thoughts.

UTC loses some key (really key) players and is breaking in a new coaching staff who does not have a lot of experience at this level.

Furman is coming off several down years, but has brought in some guys that appear to know what they are doing. Still, installing a new offense and defense will bring a learning curve on both sides of the ball.

The Citadel lost some of their key pieces with somewhat surprising departures. Hard to replace those guys.

Samford, as we have beaten to death, has a talented roster but has not demonstrated the ability to win a big game late in the year, stop the run, or keep other teams from scoring.

Wofford should be in a solid position, but still has some lingering depth questions. Were they playing with house money last season?

ETSU showed flashes of being something other than a doormat last year, but do they make significant strides?

Mercer lost a lot of players including a guy who (I think) has started close to 50 games at QB. They return some playmakers, but lose a lot of key pieces.

WCU was abysmal on defense last season, but showed impressive flashes on offense. Can they bring the defense up to par to pair with a talented offensive group?

VMI is losing their best player and QB. I think there's an open issue on whether they can even be moderately successful running their offensive system without him.

Wofford only has two QB's with a freshman coming in this summer (last year's season starter apparently will go to law school and not return for his last year of eligibility). Our dominant placekicker/punter has transferred to UGA as a graduate transfer. Both losses will hurt.
The key to our success next year will be to stay healthy.
We have an all D-I schedule, but two early season conference games (which can be a blessing or a curse).

[FUBeAR]

two early season conference games (which can be a blessing or a curse).

I'm voting for CURSE.

http://athletics.wofford.edu/services/logo_handler.ashx?image_path=/images/logos/furman_logo.gif&width=55&height=55SAT 9/2/2017 TBA FURMAN (http://www.furmanpaladins.com/landing/index) SPARTANBURG, S.C. GIBBS STADIUM
http://athletics.wofford.edu/services/logo_handler.ashx?image_path=/images/logos/Mercer.png&width=55&height=55SAT 9/9/2017 TBA MERCER (http://www.mercerbears.com/) MACON, GA

[walliver]

I'm voting for CURSE.

http://athletics.wofford.edu/services/logo_handler.ashx?image_path=/images/logos/furman_logo.gif&width=55&height=55SAT 9/2/2017 TBA FURMAN (http://www.furmanpaladins.com/landing/index) SPARTANBURG, S.C. GIBBS STADIUM
http://athletics.wofford.edu/services/logo_handler.ashx?image_path=/images/logos/Mercer.png&width=55&height=55SAT 9/9/2017 TBA MERCER (http://www.mercerbears.com/) MACON, GA


FU will have a new offense playing its first game. There will be surprises, but the wing-T is not defended much differently than the wingbone. I suspect it will be easier to defend FU in September than November.
Mercer will have a new QB, we'll have to see how quickly he comes up to speed.

[kdinva]

Lot of teams have question marks,.......
VMI is losing their best player and QB. I think there's an open issue on whether they can even be moderately successful running their offensive system without him.

Maybe Coach Wach will tweak the playbook.....VMI did lose Cobb and three fine receivers, have three very good RB's coming back and at least one newcomer who could make the travel squad @ RB....plus a couple signees at WR for depth. ;)

[FUBeAR]

Maybe Coach Wach will tweak the playbook.....VMI did lose Cobb and three fine receivers, have three very good RB's coming back and at least one newcomer who could make the travel squad @ RB... ;)

oooh...sounds like the Wishbone is about to make a comeback in LexVegas!

[kdinva]

oooh...sounds like the Wishbone is about to make a comeback in LexVegas!

no way, ain't got no "running" QBs......

[PaladinFan]

FU will have a new offense playing its first game. There will be surprises, but the wing-T is not defended much differently than the wingbone. I suspect it will be easier to defend FU in September than November.
Mercer will have a new QB, we'll have to see how quickly he comes up to speed.

I see this a few ways.

Yes, Furman will be breaking in a new offense and defense. I think that is good news and bad news for Wofford.

Good news is that Wofford will see a team that is still ironing out the kinks. The first game of a season is always fraught with mistakes, and maybe Furman will make more than you might otherwise expect.

Bad news for Wofford is they have no idea what Furman will do offensively. There's a lot of discussion of the "wing-t" on here, but everything stated publicly will suggest Furman will be a good deal more "multiple" than just running one particular offensive set. The defense will also be new, but of course Furman is led by a guy that knows the option, and has a defensive coordinator that successfully defended Wofford's attack the last time he coached a game. I expect Furman can spend a good bit of time in the preseason installing the defense to defend Wofford's option game.

Also, even though they are putting in a new offense, Furman still has a lot of veteran players on that side of the ball. Most of the offensive line returns, along with some veteran backs, receivers, and a senior QB. Of note, the QB - PJ Blazejowski - has started twice against Wofford the last three seasons and has put up 554 yards passing and 6 total touchdowns. He's been a handful for the Terrier defense.

Wofford will undoubtedly be favored, but you could pick a lot of easier first week games than playing Furman without much of a scouting report.

[ETSUfan1]

All I'm going to say is ETSU went 5-6 with mostly sophomores. We lose 4 players. There is no way we don't make an improvement this year. How much of one? Well we shall see. I think 6-5 would seem fair, with one less DII game this year.

[Mocs123]

All I'm going to say is ETSU went 5-6 with mostly sophomores. We lose 4 players. There is no way we don't make an improvement this year. How much of one? Well we shall see. I think 6-5 would seem fair, with one less DII game this year.

Just knock off JMU for us please. (Or is it VMI that plays them this year.....?)

[Milktruck74]

As I read through this entire thread two thoughts come to mind for YoucanYANKit....
1. All the qualifiers/disquals you place on Samford and Hatcher to get them to #1......Hell, I probably hold the world Record in the Marathon for 42 year old, 275# Men, that played Center on a on 2 different college football teams and have 4 kids. Eventually you can disqualify the competition and make yourself #1

2. You can have excuses, or you can have results...but you can have BOTH!!!!! Which will You have for Sammy's performance in 8 months?

[CID1990]

The Citadel has been decimated this offseason. We kicked out a couple starters, lost some to graduation, others decided not to come back for a fifth year (most notably Dee Delaney who transferred to Miami for his last year). Rumor is we lost another starter to injury and we should know more today or next week.

Picking El Cid as the number 3 is a bit optimistic at this point.

The good news is recruiting - I'm excited to see some of this year's class get into the starting roster in the next couple years, but for the coming season I think we'll be rebuilding. A middle of the pack finish wouldn't surprise me that much.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[youcanbankit]

As I read through this entire thread two thoughts come to mind for YoucanYANKit....
1. All the qualifiers/disquals you place on Samford and Hatcher to get them to #1......Hell, I probably hold the world Record in the Marathon for 42 year old, 275# Men, that played Center on a on 2 different college football teams and have 4 kids. Eventually you can disqualify the competition and make yourself #1

2. You can have excuses, or you can have results...but you can have BOTH!!!!! Which will You have for Sammy's performance in 8 months?

LOL....Your probably right. How do you see it ending up? Whats your predictions?

[citdog]

youcanspankit is going to be sorely disappointed. Hatcher is not a winner. See Georgia Southern and Jayson Foster...

[FUBeAR]

I have another set of 2017 predictions...

* Furman will be running the Wang-T and will average <2 passes/game; both incomplete

* CIT will not have enough players remaining to suit up a full Team, so all games vs. the Bellhops will be under 8 man football rules

* Chattanooga will rescind scholarships of all players and play (and Coach) D3 Football...in the SoCon

* Mercer lost every Player with any game experience, so they will, again, be re-classified as a Start-Up program in 2017; thus by NCAA decree, Davidson's players will wear Crimson and Campbell's will wear Blue & Orange when Mercer is @Alabama & @Auburn this season

* Woffy, capitalizing on their most successful plays in 2016, will run ONLY double-, triple, and quad-reverse passes on EVERY play

* VMI will be running the Wishbone and their "heir apparent" @ QB will transfer to Woffy so he gets to throw the ball more

* ETSU will go 1-10, with their only win over Sammy, 28-0 (7-0, 7-0, 7-0, 7-0 by quarters)

* WCU will have the #1 Defense in the SoCon & FCS, but Adams & Newsome will leave school before the season to join the US Olympic Teams (High Jump & Bobsled, respectively). The 'Cats go 1-11. They avenge last year's loss to ETSU by a 3-0 score, but they lose their other 11 games; ALL by the score of 3-0.

* Sammy goes undefeated (they refuse to accept their loss to ETSU or any of their other 4 or 5 losses) and CLAIMS to win the FCS National Championship (with the CLAIMED 8th or 9th worse talent in the SoCon; except for their O-Line, who go 1 thru 5 in 2018 NFL Draft picks) and Coach Hatcher leads a bloodless (AKA, SOFT) coup and assumes his rightful place leading that Crimson Team in Tuscaloosa...Davidson. :D

[youcanbankit]

youcanspankit is going to be sorely disappointed. Hatcher is not a winner. See Georgia Southern and Jayson Foster...

ha ha...very funny...xpeacex

[youcanbankit]

I have another set of 2017 predictions...

* Furman will be running the Wang-T and will average <2 passes/game; both incomplete

* CIT will not have enough players remaining to suit up a full Team, so all games vs. the Bellhops will be under 8 man football rules

* Chattanooga will rescind scholarships of all players and play (and Coach) D3 Football...in the SoCon

* Mercer lost every Player with any game experience, so they will, again, be re-classified as a Start-Up program in 2017; thus by NCAA decree, Davidson's players will wear Crimson and Campbell's will wear Blue & Orange when Mercer is @Alabama & @Auburn this season

* Woffy, capitalizing on their most successful plays in 2016, will run ONLY double-, triple, and quad-reverse passes on EVERY play

* VMI will be running the Wishbone and their "heir apparent" @ QB will transfer to Woffy so he gets to throw the ball more

* ETSU will go 1-10, with their only win over Sammy, 28-0 (7-0, 7-0, 7-0, 7-0 by quarters)

* WCU will have the #1 Defense in the SoCon & FCS, but Adams & Newsome will leave school before the season to join the US Olympic Teams (High Jump & Bobsled, respectively). The 'Cats go 1-11. They avenge last year's loss to ETSU by a 3-0 score, but they lose their other 11 games; ALL by the score of 3-0.

* Sammy goes undefeated (they refuse to accept their loss to ETSU or any of their other 4 or 5 losses) and CLAIMS to win the FCS National Championship (with the CLAIMED 8th or 9th worse talent in the SoCon; except for their O-Line, who go 1 thru 5 in 2018 NFL Draft picks) and Coach Hatcher leads a bloodless (AKA, SOFT) coup and assumes his rightful place leading that Crimson Team in Tuscaloosa...Davidson. :D

<a data-cke-saved-href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cKa3GfYw6M" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cKa3GfYw6M">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cKa3GfYw6M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cKa3GfYw6M)

[CID1990]

The Citadel has been decimated this offseason. We kicked out a couple starters, lost some to graduation, others decided not to come back for a fifth year (most notably Dee Delaney who transferred to Miami for his last year). Rumor is we lost another starter to injury and we should know more today or next week.

Picking El Cid as the number 3 is a bit optimistic at this point.

The good news is recruiting - I'm excited to see some of this year's class get into the starting roster in the next couple years, but for the coming season I think we'll be rebuilding. A middle of the pack finish wouldn't surprise me that much.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

McFields is the best injured Bulldog. He is Tyler Renew's replacement.

Looks like a freshman is going to get a shot at B back.


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[Milktruck74]

LOL....Your probably right. How do you see it ending up? Whats your predictions?

I have three predictions for the SoCon this year...

1. 3 teams in the playoffs (not sure which three).
2. The league will be very competitive (any given Saturday!!! Hell, even ETSU might sneak up and win a few...oh wait, they did that last year to Sammy).
3. Samford will not win the outright Title.

[youcanbankit]

I have three predictions for the SoCon this year...

1. 3 teams in the playoffs (not sure which three).
2. The league will be very competitive (any given Saturday!!! Hell, even ETSU might sneak up and win a few...oh wait, they did that last year to Sammy).
3. Samford will not win the outright Title.

Horrible picks......xflaggedxxflaggedxxflaggedxxflaggedxxfl aggedx......:)

[JSUSoutherner]

I have three predictions for the SoCon this year...

1. 3 teams in the playoffs (not sure which three).
2. The league will be very competitive (any given Saturday!!! Hell, even ETSU might sneak up and win a few...oh wait, they did that last year to Sammy).
3. Samford will not win the outright Title.
4. The conference will start the year off with a loss.
You forgot one.

[Milktruck74]

You forgot one.

Yep. I forgot....
4. Band kids still don't get laid!!!

[JSUSoutherner]

Yep. I forgot....
4. Band kids still don't get laid!!!
xrolleyesx

[FUBeAR]

6 SoCon Teams in the Top 25. I like that. Not too fond of the order in which he places them, but I do think 6 SoCon Teams in the 2017 Playoffs sounds about right.

Thoughts?

Southern Pigskin's Robbie Ross releases his way too early top 25 for the FCS. http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/way-too-early-fcs-top-25/


James Madison
North Dakota State
Eastern Washington
South Dakota State
Richmond
Wofford
Jacksonville State
Sam Houston State
Samford
Villanova
Youngstown State
The Citadel
Chattanooga
North Dakota
Central Arkansas
Montana
Northern Arizona
New Hampshire
Northern Iowa
Mercer
Lehigh
Illinois State
Furman
William and Mary
Kennesaw State

[Smitty]

It seems very generous to put 6 teams in the top 25. Especially Mercer and Furman

It should probably be closer to this...

9 Wofford
13 The Citadel
19 Chattanooga
26 Samford
39 Furman
43 Mercer

(totally made up rankings based on where they should probably be. No I don't have a rankings yet to justify where they belong...)

[CID1990]

6 SoCon Teams in the Top 25. I like that. Not too fond of the order in which he places them, but I do think 6 SoCon Teams in the 2017 Playoffs sounds about right.

Thoughts?

Southern Pigskin's Robbie Ross releases his way too early top 25 for the FCS. http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/way-too-early-fcs-top-25/


James Madison
North Dakota State
Eastern Washington
South Dakota State
Richmond
Wofford
Jacksonville State
Sam Houston State
Samford
Villanova
Youngstown State
The Citadel
Chattanooga
North Dakota
Central Arkansas
Montana
Northern Arizona
New Hampshire
Northern Iowa
Mercer
Lehigh
Illinois State
Furman
William and Mary
Kennesaw State



Any ranking putting The Citadel in the preseason top 25 is based solely on past performance and doesn't reflect what has happened in the offseason.

Maybe Coach Thompson really is the second coming but this upcoming season will certainly test that.


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[citdog]

Any ranking putting The Citadel in the preseason top 25 is based solely on past performance and doesn't reflect what has happened in the offseason.

Maybe Coach Thompson really is the second coming but this upcoming season will certainly test that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Every preseason poll is based upon past performance. This offseason has been tumultuous but let us not forget that the 5 year men that we lost were Kevin Higgins's boys.

[youcanbankit]

6 SoCon Teams in the Top 25. I like that. Not too fond of the order in which he places them, but I do think 6 SoCon Teams in the 2017 Playoffs sounds about right.

Thoughts?

Southern Pigskin's Robbie Ross releases his way too early top 25 for the FCS. http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/way-too-early-fcs-top-25/


James Madison
North Dakota State
Eastern Washington
South Dakota State
Richmond
Wofford
Jacksonville State
Sam Houston State
Samford
Villanova
Youngstown State
The Citadel
Chattanooga
North Dakota
Central Arkansas
Montana
Northern Arizona
New Hampshire
Northern Iowa
Mercer
Lehigh
Illinois State
Furman
William and Mary
Kennesaw State



Wow....Great confidence in the SoCon shining through. xsmileyclapx

Another guy ranking Samford up the list. xhighfivex xthumbsupx

[kdinva]

Every preseason poll is based upon past performance.....

what about Furman @ #23?

[citdog]

what about Furman @ #23?

furman sucks

[FUBeAR]

what about Furman @ #23?

Heckuva a young RB. Looking forward to him coming back from the injury he incurred early in his FR season!

Darius Morehead
Darius Morehead
#23

http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2016-17/photos/0004/MoreheadD2016.jpg?max_width=160&max_height=210

Darius Morehead


Height:
5-9


Weight:
171


Year:
R-Fr.


Hometown:
Nashville, Tenn.


High School:
Ensworth


Position:
RB

[citdog]

Heckuva a young RB. Looking forward to him coming back from the injury he incurred early in his FR season!

Darius Morehead
Darius Morehead
#23

http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/2016-17/photos/0004/MoreheadD2016.jpg?max_width=160&max_height=210

Darius Morehead


Height:
5-9


Weight:
171


Year:
R-Fr.


Hometown:
Nashville, Tenn.


High School:
Ensworth


Position:
RB




He was hurt at The Citadel if I remember correctly. Did he get a medical redshirt?

[FUBeAR]

He was hurt at The Citadel if I remember correctly. Did he get a medical redshirt?



Year:
R-Fr.


Looks like he did. He was a Fr. last year and the roster is current...CIT was game #2 for FU. Unless I'm mistaken, he did not play in any games after that game, so he's well within the NCAA Rules to receive a Redshirt year. I don't think he needs a "Medical Waiver" to gain an additional year of eligibility in this case. I think it would just be a 'garden variety' Redshirt.

[CID1990]

Every preseason poll is based upon past performance. This offseason has been tumultuous but let us not forget that the 5 year men that we lost were Kevin Higgins's boys.

I don't care who recruited them. They were damn good football players (every one) and it was not expected that we'd be replacing them this season


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[Mocs123]

I can't imagine the SoCon getting 6 teams in (though I would be happy to be wrong). I think 3-4 teams are more likely.

[FUBeAR]

I can't imagine the SoCon getting 6 teams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww
It's easy if you try...

[citdog]

I don't care who recruited them. They were damn good football players (every one) and it was not expected that we'd be replacing them this season


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

True but I am glad we have the start with who we do. Should be two games to get confidence and gel in some new guys. Don't be surprised if we add a CB grad transfer.

[PaladinFan]

Year:
R-Fr.


Looks like he did. He was a Fr. last year and the roster is current...CIT was game #2 for FU. Unless I'm mistaken, he did not play in any games after that game, so he's well within the NCAA Rules to receive a Redshirt year. I don't think he needs a "Medical Waiver" to gain an additional year of eligibility in this case. I think it would just be a 'garden variety' Redshirt.

The rules are somewhat difficult to pinpoint, but at this stage it does not really matter. It appears Morehead will be eligible as a freshmen.

He is a guy that may be one of the league's break out players this year. In limited action last season against two good team (Michigan State and Citadel), he appeared to show great potential. Should be an exciting guy to watch this year in a running scheme.

Furman looks like they may have as much speed on offense as I can remember. Morehead can fly, as can Thomas Gordon. Blazejowski is extremely elusive as a QB.

There are a couple of other guys that can really run that we have seen in limited exposure - Bradford Lemons is a state champion sprinter as is Kavajae Ellis (also injured against the Citadel). New recruit Devin Wynn looks like a slightly bigger version of Darius Morehead.

[youcanbankit]

what about Furman @ #23?

I think Furman finishes ahead of Mercer and Wofford this year. Not sure about #23....The new offense ("Wingteeish") will suit their talent and take time off the clock. Defense TBD...

[CID1990]

True but I am glad we have the start with who we do. Should be two games to get confidence and gel in some new guys. Don't be surprised if we add a CB grad transfer.

First three games are all trap games.

We could lose two of them


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[JSUSoutherner]

First three games are all trap games.

We could lose two of them


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Even if you do you won't be the only SoCon team to start the year out with an L. :D

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Even if you do you won't be the only SoCon team to start the year out with an L. :D

But you guys are playing in week zero.

[JSUSoutherner]

But you guys are playing in week zero.
And?

[youcanbankit]

Even if you do you won't be the only SoCon team to start the year out with an L. :D

Speaking of losses...Any truth to the story that a potential starting JSU LB was kicked off the team? No reasons listed. How big a loss is this if true?

[JSUSoutherner]

Speaking of losses...Any truth to the story that a potential starting JSU LB was kicked off the team? No reasons listed. How big a loss is this if true?

Who? I haven't seen anything regarding this anywhere. Where did you hear it from?

[CID1990]

Even if you do you won't be the only SoCon team to start the year out with an L. :D

Well the opener is the least likely loss (D-II Newberry) but it could happen


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[Bisonator]

Hey youcanbankit, where's the way too early Big Sky predictions thread? Did I miss it??

[JSUSoutherner]

Well the opener is the least likely loss (D-II Newberry) but it could happen


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Oh. I didn't realize you guys had a high school exhibition game in week one. Misread the other post I suppose.

[youcanbankit]

Who? I haven't seen anything regarding this anywhere. Where did you hear it from?

I checked with the source, It was Jackson State (JSU), not Jacksonville State (JSU). Whew!

[walliver]

Well the opener is the least likely loss (D-II Newberry) but it could happen


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Newberry made the playoffs last year and always seems to get some FCS transfers. I wouldn't bet any money on Newberry, but they do represent a threat if the Citadel doesn't come ready to play.

[youcanbankit]

Hey youcanbankit, where's the way too early Big Sky predictions thread? Did I miss it??

Bisonator...You did not miss it. Hope to get one out soon.

[JSUSoutherner]

I checked with the source, It was Jackson State (JSU), not Jacksonville State (JSU). Whew!
Good stuff.

[citdog]

Well the opener is the least likely loss (D-II Newberry) but it could happen


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Newberry, PC, @ETSU then a week off for the showdown with youcanspankits boys. 3-0 heading into that.

[Milktruck74]

Speaking of losses...Any truth to the story that a potential starting JSU LB was kicked off the team? No reasons listed. How big a loss is this if true?


couldn't be Jacksonville State, the only way you get kicked off their team is for incarceration, and if coach can talk the judge in letting you off for game days, you still get to play. Shoot, they select their captains based on length of their rap sheets.

[Scrappy94]

couldn't be Jacksonville State, the only way you get kicked off their team is for incarceration, and if coach can talk the judge in letting you off for game days, you still get to play. Shoot, they select their captains based on length of their rap sheets.

Most accurate description of Jacksonville State football ever!

[PaladinFan]

https://bricesviewsfromthetop.wordpress.com/2017/03/28/inside-the-rebuild-embedded-with-the-staff-at-furman-universitys-spring-game/

[CID1990]

Newberry, PC, @ETSU then a week off for the showdown with youcanspankits boys. 3-0 heading into that.

We just moved our 3rd string QB to B-back

That does not bode well at all. He could well be the starter

[citdog]

We just moved our 3rd string QB to B-back

That does not bode well at all. He could well be the starter

I saw that. If you recall we did the same thing to Cam Jackson, except his move was to A-Back, and that has worked out pretty well. It does make it interesting that if Rainey does play at B-Back every Cadet in the backfield will have been a QB. Should be some opportunity to get some big plays with a little trickeration a la Wofford...

[FUBeAR]

Thought I'd post this here; seems as good a place as any, I guess...

http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/03/north-carolina-mercer-2019-football-schedule/

North Carolina adds Mercer to 2019 football schedule (http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/03/north-carolina-mercer-2019-football-schedule/)

By Kevin Kelley - Mar. 30, 2017

The North Carolina Tar Heels have added the Mercer Bears to their 2019 football schedule, FBSchedules.com has learned.

North Carolina will host Mercer at Kenan Memorial Stadium in Chapel Hill on Nov. 23, 2019. The Bears will receive a $400,000 guarantee for the game, according to a copy of the contract obtained from UNC via a public records request.

Mercer competes in the Southern Conference in the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS). The Bears reinstated their football program in 2013 and have recorded overall records of 10-2 (2013; Independent), 6-6 (2014), 5-6 (2015), and 6-5 (2016).

Mercer now has six future football games scheduled against FBS opponents: Alabama (2017 and 2021), Auburn (2017), Memphis (2018), UNC (2019), and Vanderbilt, (2020).

The addition of Mercer tentatively completes UNC’s 2019 non-conference schedule.

[kdinva]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?191227-2019-Schedules/page3


Thought I'd post this here; seems as good a place as any, I guess...

http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/03/north-carolina-mercer-2019-football-schedule/

North Carolina adds Mercer to 2019 football schedule (http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/03/north-carolina-mercer-2019-football-schedule/)

By Kevin Kelley - Mar. 30, 2017

The North Carolina Tar Heels have added the Mercer Bears to their 2019 football schedule, FBSchedules.com has learned.

North Carolina will host Mercer at Kenan Memorial Stadium in Chapel Hill on Nov. 23, 2019. The Bears will receive a $400,000 guarantee for the game, according to a copy of the contract obtained from UNC via a public records request.

Mercer competes in the Southern Conference in the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS). The Bears reinstated their football program in 2013 and have recorded overall records of 10-2 (2013; Independent), 6-6 (2014), 5-6 (2015), and 6-5 (2016).

Mercer now has six future football games scheduled against FBS opponents: Alabama (2017 and 2021), Auburn (2017), Memphis (2018), UNC (2019), and Vanderbilt, (2020).

The addition of Mercer tentatively completes UNC’s 2019 non-conference schedule.

[youcanbankit]

Thought I'd post this here; seems as good a place as any, I guess...

http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/03/north-carolina-mercer-2019-football-schedule/

North Carolina adds Mercer to 2019 football schedule (http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/03/north-carolina-mercer-2019-football-schedule/)

By Kevin Kelley - Mar. 30, 2017

The North Carolina Tar Heels have added the Mercer Bears to their 2019 football schedule, FBSchedules.com has learned.

North Carolina will host Mercer at Kenan Memorial Stadium in Chapel Hill on Nov. 23, 2019. The Bears will receive a $400,000 guarantee for the game, according to a copy of the contract obtained from UNC via a public records request.

Mercer competes in the Southern Conference in the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS). The Bears reinstated their football program in 2013 and have recorded overall records of 10-2 (2013; Independent), 6-6 (2014), 5-6 (2015), and 6-5 (2016).

Mercer now has six future football games scheduled against FBS opponents: Alabama (2017 and 2021), Auburn (2017), Memphis (2018), UNC (2019), and Vanderbilt, (2020).

The addition of Mercer tentatively completes UNC’s 2019 non-conference schedule.



That is a nice schedule of FBS opponents. That's on top of a strengthening SoCon. Other than 2017, I like the fact Mercer is not backing up on playing some great teams! Kudos to the Bears for mannin' up! I think Auburn and Alabama may be a little much, a little early, but I am sure the coach knows what he is doing.

Samford has Georgia, FSU (still confirming) and Auburn, 2017, 2018, 2019 consecutively.

[Smitty]

That is a nice schedule of FBS opponents. That's on top of a strengthening SoCon. Other than 2017, I like the fact Mercer is not backing up on playing some great teams! Kudos to the Bears for mannin' up! I think Auburn and Alabama may be a little much, a little early, but I am sure the coach knows what he is doing.

Samford has Georgia, FSU (still confirming) and Auburn, 2017, 2018, 2019 consecutively.


https://cdn.meme.am/instances/61536158.jpg

[youcanbankit]

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/61536158.jpg

Totally Serious......Sort of.

[youcanbankit]

This is how I feel when the FCS teams start their football season. Every Saturday feels like this!

Start the video and wait 15 seconds then start the sound track!!!! Awesome.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwpTj_Z9v-c



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9bakJLAevo

[kdinva]

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/vmi-football-spends-spring-preparing-for-post-cobb-era/article_99e12f42-78c2-5b4d-a4a5-0746d61686f7.html

[FUBeAR]

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/vmi-football-spends-spring-preparing-for-post-cobb-era/article_99e12f42-78c2-5b4d-a4a5-0746d61686f7.html

Told y'all that the Keydets were going to the Wishbone...

[kdinva]

Told y'all that the Keydets were going to the Wishbone...

you can run option plays from multiple formations.....Coach won't line up in the "Darrell Royal" wishbone.....

[youcanbankit]

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/vmi-football-spends-spring-preparing-for-post-cobb-era/article_99e12f42-78c2-5b4d-a4a5-0746d61686f7.html

Nice article. Option offense.

The Socon has so many different variations in their offensive attack this year. Defensive coordinators nightmare. VMI another program on the way up.

[PaladinFan]

Unsurprising move. Division 1 football has exploded in terms of programs and scholarship opportunities the last 15-20 years, especially in the deep south.

I think to stay relevant programs are having to refocus their recruiting on smaller athletic players that are more widely available and not in high demand by bigger programs. One solution is to move to more of an option-based offense. I think you are just going to see the pro-style offense just sort of disappear at this level. Sad, but a reality of FCS football in 2017.

[youcanbankit]

Unsurprising move. Division 1 football has exploded in terms of programs and scholarship opportunities the last 15-20 years, especially in the deep south.

I think to stay relevant programs are having to refocus their recruiting on smaller athletic players that are more widely available and not in high demand by bigger programs. One solution is to move to more of an option-based offense. I think you are just going to see the pro-style offense just sort of disappear at this level. Sad, but a reality of FCS football in 2017.

True.

There are also more kids coming out of high school each year. Population growth, more quantity could mean more quality. Improvements in college programs also contribute to closing the gap. Population growth should mean a slow upgrade of athletes along with improving football programs at the high school level if alternative sports, video gaming, and the risk of injury being elevated and discussed doesn't slow it down.

[kdinva]

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/colleges/vmi-optimistic-about-defense-s-progress/article_bfec9893-d1b8-5eeb-b64f-51b5a5286d81.html

[Smitty]

http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/detrez-newsome-chasing-history

Newsome will only need 1,933 all purpose yards to become the SoCon's all time leader. I thought at first this would be hard to get however last season they reported he was able to get 2,343 yards

[youcanbankit]

http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/detrez-newsome-chasing-history

Newsome will only need 1,933 all purpose yards to become the SoCon's all time leader. I thought at first this would be hard to get however last season they reported he was able to get 2,343 yards


Fantastic for him, and fantastic for the program. I hope he gets there........against Mercer, Furman, or the Citadel!!!!

[citdog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5XFcJRG5Tc

[ElCid]

http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/detrez-newsome-chasing-history

Newsome will only need 1,933 all purpose yards to become the SoCon's all time leader. I thought at first this would be hard to get however last season they reported he was able to get 2,343 yards

He can be a beast. I think he had a little bit of pressure on him last year. He chocked a couple times with fumbles but a real talented guy to be sure. Between your young QB and him it will be interesting. Especially if get your D going.

[FUBeAR]

Mr. Massey sez...

https://s2.postimg.org/k0hvvowbt/Massey_Pre_Season_So_Con_2017.jpg

What do y'all think? Is he right?

[ElCid]

Mr. Massey sez...

https://s2.postimg.org/k0hvvowbt/Massey_Pre_Season_So_Con_2017.jpg

What do y'all think? Is he right?

Dang, I missed that he came out with the updates. As good as anyone's guess. Waaaay too many changes for anyone to be accurate at this point. I do not think Wofford will go undefeated in conference, nor will ETSU go winless. I think it will be a slugfest and the difference between most teams, besides ETSU, are much smaller than last year. And there were already pretty small differences last year overall, as we saw. I think it may be wide open. Furman and WCU will be better. Mercer may be off a bit after their first class graduated. If Samford comes together, finally, they could very well take it. Cid, Chatty or Woof, one of them, may very well be off.

No matter how you slice it, it is going to be fun. Probably the most competitive conference out there. Not a very impressive OOC FCS schedule this year though. JMU and JSU are about it for power games. That may hurt in perception and ratings. Lots of hard FBS games.

[citdog]

The SoCon will be tough yet again. MANY unknowns for a great many programs. Can Arth win immediately 2 Subdivisions up? Can Hendrix turn furman around after a late start to his regime? Can a Hatcher coached team outscore their opponent every week because we know they aren't playing much defense? Will Adams be quarterbacking the Catamounts this fall? Who replaces Long at Wofford? Can the Terriers replace most of their defensive line and three good players from their offensive line? VMI is going to be a lot more run heavy than in the past and they will be tough. ETSU is a year older and Torbush and company will beat someone they probably shouldn't. How well has The Citadel recruited these last two years? We are going to find out at Field Corner and at a couple of spots on the offensive line. Senior Qb Allen returns along with Cam Jackson in the backfield. Mercer will have a lot of new faces as well and it will be strange to see them with a different Qb.

[youcanbankit]

Mr. Massey sez...

https://s2.postimg.org/k0hvvowbt/Massey_Pre_Season_So_Con_2017.jpg

What do y'all think? Is he right?


Usually gets about 50% correct, so some validity. 50% of the Massey 2016 preseason FCS top 10...... ended up in the top ten.

Example - 2016 Massey Top Ten versus 2016 Actual




2016
Massey Pre-Season

2016
Actual Season



1
N Dakota St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=5545&s=286577)

1
James Madison (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=3611&s=286577)



2
Northern Iowa (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=5641&s=286577)

2
N Dakota St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=5545&s=286577)



3
Jacksonville St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=3606&s=286577)

3
E Washington (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=2383&s=286577)



4
Illinois St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=3449&s=286577)

4
Youngstown St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=9217&s=286577)



5
S Dakota St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=7268&s=286577)

5
S Dakota St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=7268&s=286577)



6
Richmond (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=6547&s=286577)

6
Sam Houston St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=6981&s=286577)



7
Chattanooga (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=7809&s=286577)

7
Jacksonville St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=3606&s=286577)



8
Harvard (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=3162&s=286577)

8
Citadel (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=1545&s=286577)



9
Sam Houston St (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=6981&s=286577)

9
Wofford (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=9126&s=286577)



10
James Madison (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=3611&s=286577)

10
Chattanooga (http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/team.php?t=7809&s=286577)








Wofford
I think Wofford is the biggest mover on the rankings, have them lower than where Massey ranks them. Wofford tends to struggle at home when they shouldn't (they have Furman, Western Carolina, Samford and Chattanooga at home in 2017) and their defense will be down from last year. See them losing 2or3 of the 4 at home. They have The Citadel, Mercer, VMI, and ETSU away. Have them losing 1or2 of those 4. Ayers win percentage migrates back toward 50%. 4-4. in the SoCon and 6-5 overall.

Chattanooga
Have them running the table at home and losing 2 of 4 on the road. 6-2 in the SoCon, 7-4 overall.

The Citadel
Have them 3-1 at home and 3-1 on the road, 6-2 in the SoCon. 8-3 overall.

[FUBeAR]

Wofford...their defense will be down from last year.

Good post, but how do you figure that Wofford's D will be down from last year? Here is their game-by-game Starter list...

DefenseDE NT DE OLB ILB ILB OLB CB FS SS CB
TTU Miles Brown Boudreaux Vaughn Vining D. Wilson Patterson Roach Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
MISS Miles Brown Boudreaux Vaughn Vining D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
JC Smith Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Lyles D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
ETSU Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Lyles D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
SAM Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Lyles D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
WCU Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Lyles D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Rivera Green Gbesee
CIT Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Rivera Green Lemon
MER Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Rivera Green Gbesee
FUR Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Redwood Tillery Green Gbesse
UTC Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Redwood Tillery Green Gbesse
VMI Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesse
CSU Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
CIT Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Rivera Green Lemon
YSU Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Rivera Green Gbesee

There are 154 'Starts' here and 118 of those 'Starts' (77%) are coming back in 2017.
* They lose NT Boudreaux, who had 2 starts at the beginning of the season before giving way to a 305 lb FR, Mikel Horton. While a quality back-up and a fine young man from a very nice family, Boudreaux is not a huge loss for Woffy's D, with Horton returning.
* They lose ILB Stewart who started the final 7 games after John Patterson was injured. So, essentially, they are losing a back-up in that role. Patterson had a serious neck injury, but he is on the current roster, so I'm assuming he is returning.
* They lose OLB Young, who started 13 games, but he was also a back-up to Michael Roach at the beginning of the Season. Roach is the Player that had the heart issue and, essentially 'died' on the sidelines @ TTU, before he was revived. So, while Roach nor Young is returning, in a sense, they only lost somewhat of a back-up at that position also
* They lose SS Green, who started all 14 games; so that's their only true 'lost starter' on Defense. You will notice, though, that Rivera started 5 games at FS, including the final 2 and Tillery started the other 9. So, the Terriers do have 2 Safeties with fairly extensive starting experience returning.

So, personnel-wise, I sure don't see how you can say they will be down. I imagine they return more 2016 'starts' on D than any other Team in the SoCon.

Coaching-wise, I know they have a new DC, but he was on staff last year and 6 years prior with a brief stint away from Sparkle City. They also brought in a new OLB Coach (I guess to replace the position coached by the former DC), but he's a Wofford-grad (summa cum laude - bet he learns fast!) and played D for them on SoCon Championship and Playoff Teams.

I hope you're right, but I just don't see how you can project a down-year for the Defense of the Ankle-Biters. I'm hoping FU's new offense baffles them in Week 1 and that the AF-style cut-blocking results in 11 mildly sprained ankles keeping all of their starters (lightly) hobbled the following week @ Mercer...resulting in a 0-2 start for the porch yappers. Otherwise, I think they might be the only Team in the SoCon with a chance to 'run away' with the 2017 SoCon title.

[youcanbankit]

Good post, but how do you figure that Wofford's D will be down from last year? Here is their game-by-game Starter list...

DefenseDE NT DE OLB ILB ILB OLB CB FS SS CB
TTU Miles Brown Boudreaux Vaughn Vining D. Wilson Patterson Roach Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
MISS Miles Brown Boudreaux Vaughn Vining D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
JC Smith Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Lyles D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
ETSU Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Lyles D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
SAM Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Lyles D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
WCU Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Lyles D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Rivera Green Gbesee
CIT Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Patterson Young Watson Rivera Green Lemon
MER Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Rivera Green Gbesee
FUR Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Redwood Tillery Green Gbesse
UTC Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Redwood Tillery Green Gbesse
VMI Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesse
CSU Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Tillery Green Gbesee
CIT Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Rivera Green Lemon
YSU Miles Brown Horton Vaughn Morris D. Wilson Stewart Young Watson Rivera Green Gbesee

There are 154 'Starts' here and 118 of those 'Starts' (77%) are coming back in 2017.
* They lose NT Boudreaux, who had 2 starts at the beginning of the season before giving way to a 305 lb FR, Mikel Horton. While a quality back-up and a fine young man from a very nice family, Boudreaux is not a huge loss for Woffy's D, with Horton returning.
* They lose ILB Stewart who started the final 7 games after John Patterson was injured. So, essentially, they are losing a back-up in that role. Patterson had a serious neck injury, but he is on the current roster, so I'm assuming he is returning.
* They lose OLB Young, who started 13 games, but he was also a back-up to Michael Roach at the beginning of the Season. Roach is the Player that had the heart issue and, essentially 'died' on the sidelines @ TTU, before he was revived. So, while Roach nor Young is returning, in a sense, they only lost somewhat of a back-up at that position also
* They lose SS Green, who started all 14 games; so that's their only true 'lost starter' on Defense. You will notice, though, that Rivera started 5 games at FS, including the final 2 and Tillery started the other 9. So, the Terriers do have 2 Safeties with fairly extensive starting experience returning.

So, personnel-wise, I sure don't see how you can say they will be down. I imagine they return more 2016 'starts' on D than any other Team in the SoCon.

Coaching-wise, I know they have a new DC, but he was on staff last year and 6 years prior with a brief stint away from Sparkle City. They also brought in a new OLB Coach (I guess to replace the position coached by the former DC), but he's a Wofford-grad (summa cum laude - bet he learns fast!) and played D for them on SoCon Championship and Playoff Teams.

I hope you're right, but I just don't see how you can project a down-year for the Defense of the Ankle-Biters. I'm hoping FU's new offense baffles them in Week 1 and that the AF-style cut-blocking results in 11 mildly sprained ankles keeping all of their starters (lightly) hobbled the following week @ Mercer...resulting in a 0-2 start for the porch yappers. Otherwise, I think they might be the only Team in the SoCon with a chance to 'run away' with the 2017 SoCon title.


Good points as always. I think they were 5th or 6th in the nation last year on total defense. They are returning most of their starters, but they had 3-5 above average losses on personnel and a slew of folks injured and currently in recovery. IMO...Don't think their depth is healthy or will be ready. New Defensive coordinator, though I think he is pretty good, has new responsibilities overall and I don't see him keeping them at the level as last year. Not saying they are going to be a pushover on defense by any means. They have talent. Opening with two SoCon opponents (Furman and Mercer) out of the gate will not help. I think both of those programs are energized. They are going to see new things from both programs and their depth and conditioning will be tested.

Their offense took a hit as well. Their schedule does not play well for them based on past performance and Ayers always has a jinx year when his teams just don't perform. Injuries, problems off the field, defensive scheming, offensive play calling, etc. I cant see them being in the top 5 on defense this year and with a lack of depth, not keeping up with some of the offenses they will face this coming year. Think they are a good team with depth issues. But hey, Ayers has delivered with less in his tenure. Just an opinion.

[chattanoogamocs]

Huesman left for a lot more $ though there are rumors of some friction between him and the AD (no idea if true).



Yes there was friction.

And yes, they offered significantly more money to him (and his assistants)...and that was after UTC offered him more than any other coach in it's history (he was would have made almost as much as the AD and Chancellor...combined).

[youcanbankit]

Not sure it was the money or the AD........LOLxlolx

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24965&stc=1

[The Cats]

http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/detrez-newsome-chasing-history

Newsome will only need 1,933 all purpose yards to become the SoCon's all time leader. I thought at first this would be hard to get however last season they reported he was able to get 2,343 yards



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&amp;v=cz-DugE_ksQ

[youcanbankit]

Detrez Newsome

This guy is a baller. Consistent, consistent, consistent. Not sure of his NFL potential, but the fight and heart of a lion goes a long way.

[FUBeAR]

This guy is a baller. Consistent, consistent, consistent. Not sure of his NFL potential, but the fight and heart of a lion goes a long way.

Yep - He's the whole RB package - Speed (did you see him leave Chatt's entire secondary in the dust (among others)?), Power, Agility/Change of direction, Patience, Vision, and Durability, as well as being an excellent Receiver. IF he can block (RB's have to do that in the NFL -https://streamable.com/n66k6 xmadx ) and he stays healthy, I don't see how he won't be on somebody's NFL roster in 2018.

[youcanbankit]

This guy is a baller. Consistent, consistent, consistent. Not sure of his NFL potential, but the fight and heart of a lion goes a long way.


Nice article on Mr. Newsome
http://www.southernpigskin.com/socon/detrez-newsome-chasing-history/

[catamount man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&amp;v=cz-DugE_ksQ

Awesome! GO CATS!!!