The Citadel to SHRINK stadium seating from 21K to 15K?

[Bucs2016]

http://www.postandcourier.com/sports/citadel-study-includes-plan-for-smaller-johnson-hagood-stadium/article_7d7aa644-f850-11e6-b849-135837e5fd07.html

The Citadel plans to shrink...yes...shrink...its stadium from 21K to 15K.

Huh. Thats um...a new approach. So much for Charleston hosting a bowl game now.

[RootinFerDukes]

I think Citdog is going to make this thread epic. xpopcornx

[Bucs2016]

I think Citdog is going to make this thread epic. xpopcornx

I hope so. I cant talk much because our 4K stadium is infamously known for being awful. But this is definitely unexpected news.

I suppose CSU and Citadel football continue to get closer and closer to each other...in more ways than one haha. We closed the gap inside the lines. They're closing it outside the lines!

[Laker]

I think Citdog is going to make this thread epic. xpopcornx

When the title starts out like this, there is cause for major concern!

Citadel study includes plan for smaller Johnson

[bostonspider]

Well 15,000 seats is likely enough for The Citadel's needs, but yes not enough for Charleston to host a bowl game. The stadium might end up looking really lopsided, like YSU or somewhat like JMU ..

[citdog]

Phases gentlemen phases. It is important to remember that many of you have more students than The Citadel has living alumni. 3k for the visitors side is the first phase.

[Bucs2016]

Phases gentlemen phases. It is important to remember that many of you have more students than The Citadel has living alumni. 3k for the visitors side is the first phase.

Hey buddy.

The article says they can add in the future "if needed". Well....CSU has room to add 50,000 seats in phases "if needed" haha.

- - - Updated - - -


Well 15,000 seats is likely enough for The Citadel's needs, but yes not enough for Charleston to host a bowl game. The stadium might end up looking really lopsided, like YSU or somewhat like JMU ..

Haha he said lopsided Johnson

[citdog]

Hey buddy.

The article says they can add in the future "if needed". Well....CSU has room to add 50,000 seats in phases "if needed" haha.

- - - Updated - - -



Haha he said lopsided Johnson

If there is interest in The Palmetto Bowl then more will be built. I think that 17k is about what we SHOULD have and that's where The General will probably be at in 10 years.

[citdog]

If there is interest in The Palmetto Bowl then more will be built. I think that 17k is about what we SHOULD have and that's where The General will probably be at in 10 years.

Also getting a major construction project approved on the peninsula of Charleston isn't easy. Review boards, earthquake safety etc etc

[IBleedYellow]

This Bucs2016 dude is going to disappear faster than Chadwell left CSU to be an OC at another school.

[clenz]

There's goes The Citadel's bid to host a title game.

[Bucs2016]

Also getting a major construction project approved on the peninsula of Charleston isn't easy. Review boards, earthquake safety etc etc

Now THAT is the truth. Many people dont know that a large retirement/nursing community is on the other side of the trees behind CSUs visitor side. For 20 years every time we try to get approval for stadium expansion or lights or ANYTHING...the City of North Charleston and those communities fight it. They say there will be more noise and lights disturb them at night (haha noise, obviously they aint been to our home games)

Took 20 years to get simple lights approved. No one is sympathetic so we dont talk about it. But yes....I fully confirm that Citadel WILL get major flak from the city about any construction because Charleston zoning is 100x worse than N. Chas.

[bostonspider]

http://i.imgur.com/Fe3L9MN.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0b/91/f4/0b91f4583471a5fa586d4ede18eea939.jpg

[Bucs2016]

This Bucs2016 dude is going to disappear faster than Chadwell left CSU to be an OC at another school.

Why

[kdinva]

If there is interest in The Palmetto Bowl then more will be built. I think that 17k is about what we SHOULD have.....

I am hoping for 20,000.......but as long as the General seats more than Furman, for your sake.... :D

[kdinva]

When the title starts out like this, there is cause for major concern!

Citadel study includes plan for smaller Johnson



xtroublex

[Bucs2016]

I am hoping for 20,000.......but as long as the General seats more than Furman, for your sake.... :D

Article says 15K. Means Citadel goes from 3rd largest stadium in S.C. (1. Clemson 2. USC) to now....smaller than SC State and Coastal...and....Furman? So 6th?

[bostonspider]

Well the Stadium for the Bahamas Bowl only seats 15,000

http://www.bahamasbowl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2015TARNSInternal.jpg

[RootinFerDukes]

I think bostonspider just discovered the secret to getting to the FCS title game.

[Bucs2016]

Well the Stadium for the Bahamas Bowl only seats 15,000

http://www.bahamasbowl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2015TARNSInternal.jpg

Good point. But the proposed Charleston bowl was for 2 teams from the South, ACC/SBC/CUSA. And we arent a tropical island so many more people would show up. An East Carolina vs Ga Tech bowl or similar would draw 25-30K.

[Go...gate]

Would the reduction in capacity also have something to do with adding more chair-backed seats or more comfortable bleacher seating areas? That often reduces overall seating capacity.

[Go Green]

http://www.postandcourier.com/sports/citadel-study-includes-plan-for-smaller-johnson-hagood-stadium/article_7d7aa644-f850-11e6-b849-135837e5fd07.html

The Citadel plans to shrink...yes...shrink...its stadium from 21K to 15K.
.

Dartmouth and Princeton have reduced stadium capacity in recent years.

Yale and Penn *should* do so. I think its accepted that those two play in front of the most empty seats in college football.

[Catamount87]

Let's face it, the visitor side of Johnson Hagood Stadium is, to be nice, WELL PAST its prime, lead paint, inadequate restrooms, nearly non-existent concessions, uninviting access and exterior landscaping that serves as a back lot dumping ground.

[Anthony215]

Dartmouth and Princeton have reduced stadium capacity in recent years.

Yale and Penn *should* do so. I think its accepted that those two play in front of the most empty seats in college football.

I would love Penn to do a complete upgrade of Franklin Field and do more chair back seating, upgrade the press box and reduce seating from 50k to 25k. They could keep the brick façade but redo the stands as well as upgrade the bathrooms and concessions which both are outdated and leave much to be desired these days.

[Doc QB]

I would love Penn to do a complete upgrade of Franklin Field and do more chair back seating, upgrade the press box and reduce seating from 50k to 25k. They could keep the brick façade but redo the stands as well as upgrade the bathrooms and concessions which both are outdated and leave much to be desired these days. They have done some, as the tunnel under the visitors side when I was there for the Lehigh game this past fall, had updated bathrooms (you no longer pee on the walls, which going to games there as a kid was awesome), new concessions, a store for merch, and a WaWa type store too.

[Anthony215]

They have done some, as the tunnel under the visitors side when I was there for the Lehigh game this past fall, had updated bathrooms (you no longer pee on the walls, which going to games there as a kid was awesome), new concessions, a store for merch, and a WaWa type store too.

Oh wow I haven't been to Franklin Field in 5 years I guess I need to hit a game or two this year and check it out. I work a short distance from Franklin Field and love the exterior which I've said is IMO a top 25 college football stadium (just on the outside).

[UAalum72]

Dartmouth and Princeton have reduced stadium capacity in recent years.

Yale and Penn *should* do so. I think its accepted that those two play in front of the most empty seats in college football.Harvard Stadium renovations to be completed in 2018 will reduce capacity from 30K to about 22,000, a far cry from the 55,000 it held thru the 1940s.

[PAllen]

I would love Penn to do a complete upgrade of Franklin Field and do more chair back seating, upgrade the press box and reduce seating from 50k to 25k. They could keep the brick façade but redo the stands as well as upgrade the bathrooms and concessions which both are outdated and leave much to be desired these days.

Don't they pretty much fill the place for the Penn Relays though?

[Go Green]

Harvard Stadium renovations to be completed in 2018 will reduce capacity from 30K to about 22,000, a far cry from the 55,000 it held thru the 1940s.

Hadn't heard that. They still sellout for The Game in Cambridge.

For pretty much every other contest, 22K is more than fine.

[walliver]

A decade ago, the Citadel looked at building a new 35,000 seat stadium with the city of Charleston, moving to FBS and the city hosting a bowl game. Fortunately for them, sane heads prevailed.
Back when the NCAA held its monopoly on non-local college football broadcasts, the Citadel was the only game in town and Johnson Hagood was the appropriate size. Now, Charleston residents who don't have ties to the school stay home and watch Clemson or South Carolina on TV (a problem familiar to most SoCon schools). The Citadel is not a rapidly growing institution and there is little reason to expect much larger crowds than were present this year. With the departure of ASU and GSU, there are no SoCon schools that really travel well (other than El Cid when they bus in the cadets), and a large visitor section is not needed.

15K is the right size for the Citadel in the 21st century.

I have heard rumors that they want to play on a plastic field in the future, I guess trying to catch up with CSU, but that is IMHO a stupid idea.

[bostonspider]

A decade ago, the Citadel looked at building a new 35,000 seat stadium with the city of Charleston, moving to FBS and the city hosting a bowl game. Fortunately for them, sane heads prevailed.
Back when the NCAA held its monopoly on non-local college football broadcasts, the Citadel was the only game in town and Johnson Hagood was the appropriate size. Now, Charleston residents who don't have ties to the school stay home and watch Clemson or South Carolina on TV (a problem familiar to most SoCon schools). The Citadel is not a rapidly growing institution and there is little reason to expect much larger crowds than were present this year. With the departure of ASU and GSU, there are no SoCon schools that really travel well (other than El Cid when they bus in the cadets), and a large visitor section is not needed.

15K is the right size for the Citadel in the 21st century.

I have heard rumors that they want to play on a plastic field in the future, I guess trying to catch up with CSU, but that is IMHO a stupid idea.

This quote seems to also accurately discuss the issues Richmond had in building a new stadium as well. In the early 80's UR looked into renovating and expanding City Stadium to 35,000 so they could stay in I-A. It didn't happen and UR like the Citadel slowly fell in relevance to the local population. While UR's on campus stadium is too small at just under 9K (thanks, neighbors), it is certainly a better fit than the 21,000 seat downtown stadium they previously played at.

[ElCid]

The size of the first phase is due to funding more than anything else. As I understand it, the structure and facilities (bathrooms and concessions) will all be designed to easily add seats as needed. No need to go into more debt than needed all at once. I am not sure that "if you build it, they will come" is a good methodology to decide how large to go right out of the gate.

We averaged about 15K a game in the 90s with some sell out 22/23K games thrown in. In the 00's we dropped to a 13.6K average but that included two years of no home side due to construction of the new home side. If you throw out the two years when the home side was closed, we averaged 14.5K. Now with 6 years done in the 10's, we have dropped to about a 12K average. The last time we hit 20K for a game was in 2003 against Wofford.

Overall in the last few years, I blame the economy and technology more than I blame the W/L's. It is very easy to save some discretionary funds and look at the game on TV or the internet instead of laying out bucks for a weekend in Chucktown.

I looked back over 25+ years of attendance and the average has not appreciably moved simply due to the W/L record. It has gone up and down in a sometimes contrarian manner when looking at the winning percentage. Winning may obviously help, but losing has not hurt a whole lot over the years. We have had increases both during and following 2-9 seasons. But the good news is we were just shy of 13K this past year so hopefully we are on the uptick. If we fill up, we can add on more seats later.

If they do as good a job on the visitors side as they did on the home side, it will be awesome.

[citdog]

I do miss the days of 18k in The General on Parents Day and Homecoming.

[Go...gate]

Dartmouth and Princeton have reduced stadium capacity in recent years.

Yale and Penn *should* do so. I think its accepted that those two play in front of the most empty seats in college football.

Princeton built a new stadium and began play there in 1998, but I do not believe the capacity has been reduced from its original 27,800. Princeton Stadium remains expandable to 30,000 and possibly more if the need arose.

[UAalum72]

In fact it's been nineteen years since the new Princeton stadium opened, so is that "recent"? (Other than by Ivy League standards)

[Go Green]

In fact it's been nineteen years since the new Princeton stadium opened, so is that "recent"? (Other than by Ivy League standards)

Fine, D and P have reduced capacity in the not-terribly-distant past.

Fair enough?

:)

[Bucs2016]

A decade ago, the Citadel looked at building a new 35,000 seat stadium with the city of Charleston, moving to FBS and the city hosting a bowl game. Fortunately for them, sane heads prevailed.
Back when the NCAA held its monopoly on non-local college football broadcasts, the Citadel was the only game in town and Johnson Hagood was the appropriate size. Now, Charleston residents who don't have ties to the school stay home and watch Clemson or South Carolina on TV (a problem familiar to most SoCon schools). The Citadel is not a rapidly growing institution and there is little reason to expect much larger crowds than were present this year. With the departure of ASU and GSU, there are no SoCon schools that really travel well (other than El Cid when they bus in the cadets), and a large visitor section is not needed.

15K is the right size for the Citadel in the 21st century.

I have heard rumors that they want to play on a plastic field in the future, I guess trying to catch up with CSU, but that is IMHO a stupid idea.

Interesting.

As for turf, its faster but triple option teams do better on grass. Slows down the defenses reaction/adjustment a bit. CSU installed turf because its cheaper in the long run apparently.

You make good points about TV. Even more so the internet. Ive watched numerous CSU games on ESPN3 that I otherwise might have gone to in person. Im sure thats part of Citadels lower attendance also. Its easy to just put up 2 screens and watch our FCS team on ESPN3 and also watch the big FBS game.

[Go Green]

You make good points about TV. Even more so the internet. Ive watched numerous CSU games on ESPN3 that I otherwise might have gone to in person. Im sure thats part of Citadels lower attendance also. Its easy to just put up 2 screens and watch our FCS team on ESPN3 and also watch the big FBS game.

I used to drive 2-3 hours for Dartmouth games.

After the Ivy League Digital Network was created, I watch them at home streaming.

[bostonspider]

Memorial Field does look good now. How many does it seat? It was 20K at one time, right?

http://www.clarkcompanies.com/images/stories/largeimages/dartmouthfb16.jpg

[Sandlapper Spike]

A decade ago, the Citadel looked at building a new 35,000 seat stadium with the city of Charleston, moving to FBS and the city hosting a bowl game.

The Citadel hasn't thought about an FBS move since the mid-1990s, and only then if most of the SoCon jumped as well. That was a provisional response to the NCAA not counting FCS games towards the 6-win total needed for FBS teams to go bowling.

Once that particular rule was tossed out, there was no need for The Citadel to consider a move to FBS.

For the record, since 1964 The Citadel has averaged 14,158 per game at Johnson Hagood Stadium (296 games). That is not counting the two games played at Williams-Brice Stadium in 1989 due to Hurricane Hugo.

I've written somewhat extensively on The Citadel's home attendance numbers. I haven't posted a specific 2016 season update yet, but that year's attendance figures have already been added to my attendance spreadsheet (which is attached to this post (https://thesportsarsenal.com/2016/07/18/updating-history-attendance-at-johnson-hagood-stadium-1964-2015/)).

If the folks wanting a bowl game in Charleston put up the money, then Johnson Hagood Stadium will undoubtedly wind up with the same number of seats as they have before (perhaps a bit more). Otherwise, I suspect what you'll see is the East Stands eventually holding about 5,000 seats (installed over two phases), with the space left over used for various events (not necessarily restricted to gameday activities). I don't have any inside information on that, though. It's just my best guess.

[UNHWildcat18]

Not a bad move for Citadel, especially since the away side is being condemned. A lot of teams should reduce stadium capacity. YSU, Colgate, half the Ivy's ect..

[ngineer]

When the title starts out like this, there is cause for major concern!

Citadel study includes plan for smaller Johnson

xbowxxlolxxlolxxlolx

I guess the stands' reconstruction could result in a dysfunction in its erection.

[ElCid]

xbowxxlolxxlolxxlolx

I guess the stands' reconstruction could result in a dysfunction in its erection.

OK, I got to say that was pretty funny.

[ngineer]

Princeton built a new stadium and began play there in 1998, but I do not believe the capacity has been reduced from its original 27,800. Princeton Stadium remains expandable to 30,000 and possibly more if the need arose.

I would be interested to know if Princeton's "new" stadium has ever been filled to capacity for a football game. It is a beautiful stadium and very functional, but it is usually 70% empty. The design also follows the outline of the original Palmer Stadium that sat 45,000.

[ngineer]

Dartmouth and Princeton have reduced stadium capacity in recent years.

Yale and Penn *should* do so. I think its accepted that those two play in front of the most empty seats in college football.

Good point. Last year Lehigh played at both venues and we had as many if not more fans in those cavernous bowls. Attendance at Yale was about 8,000 and about the same at Penn.

[citdog]

xbowxxlolxxlolxxlolx

I guess the stands' reconstruction could result in a dysfunction in its erection.


I can gurandamnteeu that it won't be called a 'reconstruction'.

[Go...gate]

I would be interested to know if Princeton's "new" stadium has ever been filled to capacity for a football game. It is a beautiful stadium and very functional, but it is usually 70% empty. The design also follows the outline of the original Palmer Stadium that sat 45,000.

Yes. The opening 1998 game (Cornell) and several other games that season were sellouts.

[Go...gate]

Not a bad move for Citadel, especially since the away side is being condemned. A lot of teams should reduce stadium capacity. YSU, Colgate, half the Ivy's ect..

Colgate last reduced capacity at Andy Kerr Stadium in 1991 when the Dunlap Stands were built. Capacity declined from 12.500 to 10,221. I can envision a time in the future when the visitor's stands are reduced slightly. As I recall, since 1991, Colgate has had crowds of 9,000+ for a game or two, usually at Homecoming or on Parents' Weekend.

[Bucs2016]

I can gurandamnteeu that it won't be called a 'reconstruction'.

Haha oh boy. Lets rename Johnson Hagood folks. Idea's?

- Reconstruction Field
- Mercy of Sherman Stadium
- Union Glory Stadium
- Lees Lost Cause Field

Any others?

[SENOREIDA]

Haha oh boy. Lets rename Johnson Hagood folks. Idea's?

- Reconstruction Field
- Mercy of Sherman Stadium
- Union Glory Stadium
- Lees Lost Cause Field

Any others?
How about "Colonel Robert Shaw Field at General W.T. Sherman Stadium"?

[PAllen]

I hear Lincoln Financial is looking to expand it's sponsorships to SC.

[FUBeAR]

How about "Colonel Robert Shaw Field at General W.T. Sherman Stadium"?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HGMIbA0L1A

...even for a Furman Alum!

[walliver]

It would need to be named after a South Carolinian.
Something like "Shannon Faulkner Field at Jessie Jackson Stadium

[kdinva]

http://www.postandcourier.com/sports/demolition-approved-for-east-side-of-citadel-s-johnson-hagood/article_8b44ac00-f9dd-11e6-9096-53c16ef50415.html

no more pee wall?

[citdog]

How about "Colonel Robert Shaw Field at General W.T. Sherman Stadium"?

How about you kissing my ass?

[FUBeAR]

It would need to be named after a South Carolinian.
Something like "Shannon Faulkner Field at Jessie Jackson Stadium

Much better. I can support that.

[Bucs2016]

It would need to be named after a South Carolinian.
Something like "Shannon Faulkner Field at Jessie Jackson Stadium

Oh snap.....pass the popcorn....will it include a Skip Reville statue?