Big Sky a power conference?

[taper]

In another thread I declared the Big Sky is no longer a power conference based on their playoff results.

I'll use the last four years of playoffs for comparison. No real reason for that length, say it's a full career of eligibility for a player.

2016 - 2-3 EWU had the only wins. Cal Poly lost to non-scholarship San Diego, giving the Pioneer their first ever playoff win. Co-champ UND lost to Richmond, who was missing 18 starters and was the 2nd ever start for their freshman QB.
2015 - 2-4 with a Montana win. Outright champ SUU wasn't even seeded and lost 1st round. #6 Portland lost to UNI in their first game.
2014 - 2-3, 1 win over non-scholarship San Diego(Montana), who was then beat by other another BSC team(EWU again).
2013 - 2-4, again EWU only. #8 Montana continues the BSC tradition of a seed losing their first game.
8-14 in total
Out of 13 teams, only EWU and Montana won a game, with EWU counting 6 of those wins.


Other so-called power conferences:

MVFC
2016 7-3
2015 9-4
2014 9-4
2013 5-1
30-12
Winners: YSU, NDSU, SDSU, WIU, UNI, ISUr, ISUb

CAA
2016 7-3
2015 3-4
2014 3-3
2013 6-3
19-13
Nova, UNH, Richmond, JMU, W&M, Towson

Socon
2016 3-4
2015 2-2
2014 1-1
2013 1-2
7-9
Chatty, Wofford, Citadel, Furman
Loss of App St and GA Southern really hurt the SoCon, even with that they're doing well.

Other not-so-power conferences
OVC
2016 0-1
2015 3-2
2014 0-2
2013 4-3
7-8
JSU, Tenn St, EIU

Big South
2016 0-1
2015 1-2
2014 2-2
2013 2-1
5-6
CSU, Liberty, Coastal

Southland
2016 2-2
2015 3-2
2014 2-3
2013 2-4
9-11
Central AR, SHSU, SELA

Based on numbers, the Big Sky is clearly closer to the the midpack conferences than the 3 real power conferences. I'd even put them towards the bottom of the 2nd group. They've all had a higher winning percentage and more teams win. EWU is a very strong team that's usually threatening to win it all and...actually EWU has one of the best passing offenses in the FCS and not much defense. That's still enough to get them pretty far though.

Brings me to talking about the proliferation of 1 dimensional teams in the BSC. Cal Poly, UND, Portland St are also good examples of this. At times Cal Poly and PSU have had very strong running games, which have given them upset wins that catapulted them up the rankings. UND is one of the few BSC teams that cares about defense so they've done well against the run, which also pulls them up. You can pass on them all day long though. Computer rankings are dominated by the transitive property, which is why Sagarin has the BSC so high despite their lack of playoff success. The minute one of these plays a balanced team they're ripped apart. There are lots of other unbalanced teams in the FCS but nobody seems to take it to the extreme that the BSC does. Couple that with an absolutely horrible bottom half and scheduling that often avoids top teams playing each other and it's easy to get a great record by a mediocre team.

As I said in the other thread, have 2 or more teams win at least 1 playoff game each against scholarship teams for 2 years in a row and you're back in. Until then I completely reject calling the Big Sky a FCS power conference.

[Bisonator]

Hmmm where's that quarter at.....

[Gangtackle11]

I noticed this when I took a look at SHSU. SHSU was dominant over the Big Sky teams in the playoffs.

EWU is legit. Montana most years yes. The rest not so much. UND don't see it. (0-2 vs. CAA this season. Stony Brook & Richmond)

[kalm]

Compare playoff and OOC sos and you might change your tune.

There's no questioning the MVFC's standing.

The BSC has under-performed in the playoffs for sure but give them some PL and NEC first round matchups and you see a W-L similar to the CAA.

MVFC

CAA
BSC
SoCon

SLC
OVC

[Gangtackle11]

Compare playoff and OOC sos and you might change your tune.

There's no questioning the MVFC's standing.

The BSC has under-performed in the playoffs for sure but give them some PL and NEC first round matchups and you see a W-L similar to the CAA.

MVFC

CAA
BSC
SoCon

SLC
OVC

Maybe, but you might want your BSC teams beat the non-schollie Pioneer League 1st. See San Diego over Cal Poly.

[kalm]

Maybe, but you might want your BSC teams beat the non-schollie Pioneer League 1st. See San Diego over Cal Poly.

Yeah, thanks. I don't rate long term conference rankings on one or even a few games. For examples...I thought the CAA was a power comference at the start of this season even though Colgate was the CAA champs last year.

I didn't even bring up the fact that bottom dweller Sac has two PAC 12 wins in the past decade....

[Gangtackle11]

Yeah, thanks. I don't rate long term conference rankings on one or even a few games. For examples...I thought the CAA was a power comference at the start of this season even though Colgate was the CAA champs last year.

I didn't even bring up the fact that bottom dweller Sac has two PAC 12 wins in the past decade....

I was answering your quote that said give the BSC some PL or NEC teams and they may have the same record. Pretty presumptive on your part given the San Diego win & the success of Colgate last season. Missed the point, but that's OK.

[kalm]

I was answering your quote that said give the BSC some PL or NEC teams and they may have the same record. Pretty presumptive on your part given the San Diego win & the success of Colgate last season. Missed the point, but that's OK.

Colgate is not a feather in your cap and again I consider a bigger sample size. The OP goes back before the PL increased schollies and the CAA's numbers (especially the amount of home playoff games) are buoyed by that.

I'm here to help.

[Gangtackle11]

Colgate is not a feather in your cap and again I consider a bigger sample size. The OP goes back before the PL increased schollies and the CAA's numbers (especially the amount of home playoff games) are buoyed by that.

I'm here to help.

So let's take a look. I'll go back to 2010 the year EWU won the championship because going back further would only show CAA dominance. It's your best chance.

2010
PL Lehigh beats UNI; loses to CAA Delaware.

NEC Robert Morris loses at NDSU.

2011
NEC Albany loses to Big South Stony Brook.

PL champ Lehigh beats CAA Towson; loses @ NDSU

2012
NEC Wagner beats PL Colgate; loses to BSC EWU 29-19 (Forget?)

2013
NEC SHU loses to PL Fordham; Fordham loses to Towson. (Forget? -Towson beat EWU in semis)

PL Lafayette loses to UNH; UNH beats Maine & SELA before losing to NDSU in semis.

2014
PL Fordham beats NEC SHU; Fordham loses to UNH

2015
PL Fordham loses to Chatty
PL Colgate beats UNH & JMU; loses to SHSU
NEC Duquesne loses to W&M

2016
NEC St.Francis loses to Villanova
PL Lehigh loses to UNH

So from 2010-2016 (7 seasons) the CAA has played the NEC 2 times (both wins) & the PL 8 times (CAA 5-3). 5 of those games came in 2nd round meaning the PL beat another league before playing the CAA.

CAA has played either the PL or NEC 5 times in the 1st round. (CAA is 4-1)

The PL was also 3-4 in games not involving the CAA vs. 3-5 against the CAA. Huge advantage playing the PL w/o schollies? Ask UNI?

Thanks for your help. None needed.

[kalm]

So let's take a look. I'll go back to 2010 the year EWU won the championship because going back further would only show CAA dominance. It's your best chance.

2010
PL Lehigh beats UNI; loses to CAA Delaware.

NEC Robert Morris loses at NDSU.

2011
NEC Albany loses to Big South Stony Brook.

PL champ Lehigh beats CAA Towson; loses @ NDSU

2012
NEC Wagner beats PL Colgate; loses to BSC EWU 29-19 (Forget?)

2013
NEC SHU loses to PL Fordham; Fordham loses to Towson. (Forget? -Towson beat EWU in semis)

PL Lafayette loses to UNH; UNH beats Maine & SELA before losing to NDSU in semis.

2014
PL Fordham beats NEC SHU; Fordham loses to UNH

2015
PL Fordham loses to Chatty
PL Colgate beats UNH & JMU; loses to SHSU
NEC Duquesne loses to W&M

2016
NEC St.Francis loses to Villanova
PL Lehigh loses to UNH

So from 2010-2016 (7 seasons) the CAA has played the NEC 2 times (both wins) & the PL 8 times (CAA 5-3). 5 of those games came in 2nd round meaning the PL beat another league before playing the CAA.

CAA has played either the PL or NEC 5 times in the 1st round. (CAA is 4-1)

The PL was also 3-4 in games not involving the CAA vs. 3-5 against the CAA. Huge advantage playing the PL w/o schollies? Ask UNI?

Thanks for your help. None needed.

Outside of USD and RMU the other BSC teams play SDSU, SHSU, UTC, UNI, NDSU, and UNH in the first two rounds and in 4 of those instances they are road games.

You still need help.

[Gangtackle11]

Outside of USD and RMU the other BSC teams play SDSU, SHSU, UTC, UNI, NDSU, and UNH in the first two rounds and in 4 of those instances they are road games.

You still need help.

1st 2 rounds changes the parameters. I just noted the 1st round. Apples to oranges. What a surprise.

[kalm]

1st 2 rounds changes the parameters. I just noted the 1st round. Apples to oranges. What a surprise.

Conference rankings should include all games not just those that suit your narrative. And btw, YOU brought up the secomd round.

The BSC outside of EWU and Montana has not fared well in the playoffs. No argument. But we should consider SOS and hosting in this discussion.

Btw, what's the BSC playoff record against the MVFC in the playoffs since 2010? I'd guess it's similar to the CAA. What's the BSC v CAA record over the same stretch?

[Gangtackle11]

Compare playoff and OOC sos and you might change your tune.

There's no questioning the MVFC's standing.

The BSC has under-performed in the playoffs for sure but give them some PL and NEC first round matchups and you see a W-L similar to the CAA.

MVFC

CAA
BSC
SoCon

SLC
OVC

You're the one who brought the 1st round matchups. I proved the point it isn't as much as you , but that's the way it is.

The West is great. Buy into it or get a bunch of bs thrown your way.

[Gangtackle11]

Conference rankings should include all games not just those that suit your narrative. And btw, YOU brought up the secomd round.

The BSC outside of EWU and Montana has not fared well in the playoffs. No argument. But we should consider SOS and hosting in this discussion.

Btw, what's the BSC playoff record against the MVFC in the playoffs since 2010? I'd guess it's similar to the CAA. What's the BSC v CAA record over the same stretch?

Quick look again from 2010-2016 it looks like it's 4-2 BSC over CAA. EWU owns 3 of the wins. 2 in 2010 championship year over Nova & Delaware & Richmond in 2016. Montana State has the other edging UNH in 2011. Towson in 2013 & Richmond in 2016 own the CAA wins. I only looked quickly so I may have missed a game or two.

[kalm]

Quick look again from 2010-2016 it looks like it's 4-2 BSC over CAA. EWU owns 3 of the wins. 2 in 2010 championship year over Nova & Delaware & Richmond in 2016. Montana State has the other edging UNH in 2011. Towson in 2013 & Richmond in 2016 own the CAA wins. I only looked quickly so I may have missed a game or two.

It varies from year to year. The BSC has underperformed in the playoffs...no doubt...but it's still one of 4 power conferences with the SLC and OVC in the conversation depending on the year.

[SUUTbird]

To say the Big Sky is not a Power Conference after only a few poor seasons is somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction in my opinion. With how many other posters from other Conferences in here I'm not surprised by the lopsided (somewhat biased) poll results.

[SeattleGriz]

Not to mention Montana is playing with their fourth coach and scheme over the last eight years, is at their worst in that period, but still owns wins over NDSU, SDSU and UNI the last two.

That conference is atrocious!

[Gangtackle11]

To say the Big Sky is not a Power Conference after only a few poor seasons is somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction in my opinion. With how many other posters from other Conferences in here I'm not surprised by the lopsided (somewhat biased) poll results.

There is only 1 power conference in the FCS. That's NDSU. xpeacex

[kalm]

Not to mention Montana is playing with their fourth coach and scheme over the last eight years, is at their worst in that period, but still owns wins over NDSU, SDSU and UNI the last two.

That conference is atrocious!

And that "mid-pack" conference split its games with the MVFC this year including two OT losses.

[Gangtackle11]

And that "mid-pack" conference split its games with the MVFC this year including two OT losses.

You BSC guys are very close to the "my conference cellar dwellers are better than your conference cellar dwellers" response very soon from the only power conference.

Prepare yourselves. You have been warned.

[NDSUtk]

You BSC guys are very close to the "my conference cellar dwellers are better than your conference cellar dwellers" response very soon from the only power conference.

Prepare yourselves. You have been warned.
My only comment with the big sky...Too damn big. Split it up. It's impossible to get a feel for where teams really rank since they miss so many opponents per year.

[BisonTru]

I don't like using power conference labels for FCS. In the FBS there is a distinct gap from the P5 to the G5. In FCS teams like Sam Houston St and Jacksonville St have made long runs in the playoffs to the finals. In the FBS you wouldn't see teams from the G5 make the finals. Both the OVC and Southland are not among the top conferences.

The way I see it, the MVFC has been the clear leader in conference strength. The CAA has made strides to close that gap. Even the Big Sky had some nice out of conference wins against the MVFC. The Big Sky is a blurry third, IMO, with the Southern conference on their heels for conference strength.

Does that make them a power conference? IDK, but they are certainly in the top half of FCS conferences.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Big Sky hasn't been a power conference in over 10 years. Nice to see some of you slow learners come around

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[SeattleGriz]

Big Sky hasn't been a power conference in over 10 years. Nice to see some of you slow learners come around

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Idaho is hopefully a step back in that direction.

[kalm]

Idaho is hopefully a step back in that direction.

Speaking of Idaho and the transitive property they almost lost to bottom half BSC MSU before finishing second in the Sun Belt and rolling Colorado State in their bowl game.

Nice season

[Silenoz]

Prepare yourselves. You have been warned.
lol?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Idaho is hopefully a step back in that direction.

Yes now if we could get Boise St, Nevada and another ****ty team like Utah St or Colorado St, we could have the first 24 team power conference and nothing would stop us from interstellar domination.

[taper]

And that "mid-pack" conference split its games with the MVFC this year including two OT losses.

Those games included your co-champ barely beating our 4th from the bottom team, who did beat your 3rd place team. 2 of the other wins and 1 OT loss came from EWU and Montana, which supports my claim that only EWU and sometimes Montana are any good. EWU is a great team, no doubt about it. I'm saying the rest of the conference is midpack to terrible and shouldn't be called a power conference.

[RootinFerDukes]

I'd say an FCS power conference is maybe a consistent 2-bid conference, definitely a consistent 3 or more bid conference. I'd define consistent as at least 3 consecutive years of at least 2 ncaa bids.

FCS Power Conferences are MVFC, CAA, Big Sky and maybe the Socon is getting back to that status. The OVC and SLC are on the cusp but need to become more than 2 bid conferences consistently.

[IBleedYellow]

Man AGS is just a fun fun fun read these days.

Of course the Big Sky is a power conference....

[Redbird007]

To say the Big Sky is not a Power Conference after only a few poor seasons is somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction in my opinion. With how many other posters from other Conferences in here I'm not surprised by the lopsided (somewhat biased) poll results.

xthumbsupx This Big Sky being "down" only a few years makes it too soon to pull the ripcord on their status especially when they are producing top tourney seeds.

[taper]

xthumbsupx This Big Sky being "down" only a few years makes it too soon to pull the ripcord on their status especially when they are producing top tourney seeds.

Even when those seeds lose their first game? #7 North Dakota, #6 Portland State, #8 Montana in the last 4 years. EWU is the only BSC seed to win a game. I'd say the committee needs to stop giving out seeds to mediocre teams with good records over bad teams. Results speak for themselves.

[F'N Hawks]

Even when those seeds lose their first game? #7 North Dakota, #6 Portland State, #8 Montana in the last 4 years. EWU is the only BSC seed to win a game. I'd say the committee needs to stop giving out seeds to mediocre teams with good records over bad teams. Results speak for themselves.

You seem concerned about it. Two different threads trying to inform everyone. Good job, good effort.

[Red & Black]

Seriously with this? Lol.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Laugh all you want while all the BSC teams are at home again in the playoffs. Shocking to nobody.

The so called "best team in the BSC" (LOL) is a one dimensional offense, no special teams and absolutely ZERO ****ing defense. Even winning this conference we dont really have ONE team that is worthy of a playoff auto bid.

[kalm]

Those games included your co-champ barely beating our 4th from the bottom team, who did beat your 3rd place team. 2 of the other wins and 1 OT loss came from EWU and Montana, which supports my claim that only EWU and sometimes Montana are any good. EWU is a great team, no doubt about it. I'm saying the rest of the conference is midpack to terrible and shouldn't be called a power conference.

Yes...and the BSC #4 was able to do what the MVFC #2, CAA #2, and MVFC rep in the chipper couldn't and that's beat the MVFC champ. And they beat them on the road. And that BSC #4 lost to USD. xlolx

Transitive is fun!

If you want to make the claim that only EWU has done anything in the playoffs lately, fine. If you want to make the claim that from a playoff standpoint, only EWU and Montana have done much in the last decade, OK. Are the bottom 4 or 5 BSC teams not very good? Sure. Is the MVFC better than the BSC, agreed.

You found an idea that the BSC is not a power conference, you're in love with it, and that's ok.

[kalm]

I'd say an FCS power conference is maybe a consistent 2-bid conference, definitely a consistent 3 or more bid conference. I'd define consistent as at least 3 consecutive years of at least 2 ncaa bids.

FCS Power Conferences are MVFC, CAA, Big Sky and maybe the Socon is getting back to that status. The OVC and SLC are on the cusp but need to become more than 2 bid conferences consistently.

That's a good metric to use, Rootin. xnodx

You can then use playoff outcomes as the means to rank the conferences from year to year sans H2H OOC regular season matchups.

This year:

MVFC
CAA
SoCon and BSC T3rd
SLC
OVC

[MR. CHICKEN]

xthumbsupx This Big Sky being "down" only a few years makes it too soon to pull the ripcord on their status especially when they are producing top tourney seeds.

........NORFF DAKOTA....BEATEN BAH RICHMOND........WHOM HAD MO' TALENT IN SICK BAY......THAN.....DUH BIG GREEN ROSTER.......WHIFF UH COACH...WHO....WAS THUMBIN' THRU....TUBBY'S AUTOBIOGRAPHY.....INSTEAD UH SPIDERS PLAYBOOK....C'MON MAN!.....EASTERN WASHIN'TON.......WHO HASN'T CONSTRUCTED...UH DEFENSE....IN HOW MANY YEARS NOW?..........xrolleyesx........BROCCO!

[Gangtackle11]

North Dakota 0-2 in the CAA. Game behind Elon in CAA standings. xeyebrowx

[kalm]

North Dakota 0-2 in the CAA. Game behind Elon in CAA standings. xeyebrowx

xlolx

UNH...dead last in the Ivy.

[Gangtackle11]

xlolx

UNH...dead last in the Ivy.

xlolx

Touche!

How the hell did Dartmouth beat UNH?

I know. The same way Penn beat Nova the year before, but at least Penn won the Ivy. Smh.

[70MilesFromCanada]

There is only 1 power conference in the FCS. That's NDSU. xpeacex

Maybe not!

[70MilesFromCanada]

Big Sky hasn't been a power conference in over 10 years. Nice to see some of you slow learners come around

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

And it matters not why?

[Silenoz]

Trying to do a P5/G5 classification for FCS is silly. Its too disparate. Now if you are asking if the Big Sky is any good... no. 13 teams and you have basically one that is worth a ****. And even they have to ride those ****ty conference wins to home playoff games, where they still lose. And behind that one team you have, what? Montana every 5th year or so if we're lucky?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

xlolx

Touche!

How the hell did Dartmouth beat UNH?

I know. The same way Penn beat Nova the year before, but at least Penn won the Ivy. Smh.

How the hell did Dartmouth tank, other than beating Towson, the rest of the season???????? Coming off a great season and a huge come from behind win over UNH, we all thought they would have another successful Ivy season.

A bad end of the year for UNH in Hanover as they also lost there in December to Dartmouth in Ice Hockey and Men's Basketball. Football absolutely gakked a 14 point lead in the 4th Quarter. Hoop loses by one point on New Year's Eve when its shot at the buzzer is ruled late. Bad karma in Hanover for UNH for sure!! xrotatehx :( Don't plan on visiting there again until maybe 2022! xlolx

[Twentysix]

Man, this is tough. Judging by results only the MVFC and CAA are power conferences. And the CAA was teetering before this year.

I think you need more criteria than just what OP presents. The BSC is definitely a weak power conference, but they are a power conference.

[Gangtackle11]

Man, this is tough. Judging by results only the MVFC and CAA are power conferences. And the CAA was teetering before this year.

I think you need more criteria than just what OP presents. The BSC is definitely a weak power conference, but they are a power conference.


Ahhhh nevermind.....

[dudeitsaid]

I think the OP asks in interesting question. I don't know exactly what the definition of a "power conference" should be, but in my mind, to be an elite team in the FCS, you really should make the Semis a couple times. Maybe that's overly simplistic. But since there isn't a uniform definition, I guess that could be as good as any. And, if using that measuring stick, the Big Sky really hasn't fared well. EWU and UM are the only two current Big Sky teams to make the semis in the last 25 years. UM has had the strongest run in that time, with EWU having the more recent success.

1994 was the last time the Big Sky had two teams in the semis, and one of those teams is now FBS. 1993 was the last time a Big Sky team other than EWU or UM made the semis, and that team also is FBS, though they (Idaho) will soon be rejoining the Big Sky. Then, you have to go all the way back to 1984 to find a current Big Sky team that made the semis, Montana State, who won the NC that year.

When looking at the teams in the Semis, and the variation of teams from each conference that made those deep runs in the playoffs, it gets interesting. I don't know all of the conference history, so I'm not 100% certain if some of the teams have switched conferences over time, and I'm not going to look it up. There is only one team I can't find a conference affiliation for, and appears to may have been independent at the time of their playoff run (Florida Atlantic), and they are not FCS anymore.

Since 2000, the following conferences have had a team in the semis:
19 times - CAA
15 times - SoCon
14 times - MVFC
11 times - Big Sky
7 times - Southland
2 times - OVC
1 time - Patriot

Of the teams that made it, the total number of different teams from each conference is:
8 - CAA
5 - MVFC
4 - SoCon
3 - Southland
2 - Big Sky
2 - OVC
1 - Patriot

Once again, there are quite a few teams in those numbers that have moved on. The number of different teams that remain fall out this way:
7 - CAA
5 - MVFC
2 - SoCon
2 - Southland
2 - Big Sky
1 - OVC
1 - Patriot

For specifics, since 2000, the following teams have been to the semis the following times:

CAA
4 - Delaware
3 - Nova, JMU, Richmond
2 - W&M, UNH
1 - Towson

MVFC
6 - NDSU
3 - UNI
2 - YSU
1 - SIU, UNIr

SoCon
2 - Furman
1 - Wofford

Southland
5 - SHSU
1 - McNeese

Big Sky
7 - UM
4 - EWU

OVC
1 - Jax St

Patriot
1 - Colgate


I think with conferences, there is an ebb and flow of the strength of the conference overall, so using just a few years can be too short of a time to make the determination of whether a conference is a power conference or not. That being said, I think the original premise has merit, as the Big Sky has shown to be a very top heavy conference in regards to elite teams. But the same could be said about the Southland and SoCon. The Southland has really been one elite team. The SoCon was the App St and GSU show, with Furman and Wofford poking out a little. Without App and GSU, the SoCon also only has two current conference members with deep runs. So, as it stands, with current members, I would rate the MVFC and CAA as the truly deep power conferences, and the Big Sky, SoCon, and Southland as conferences with a couple of power teams.

I think the Big Sky has some good teams in the middle, and they showed that in the OOC matches this year, and in past years. And those teams play the top teams tough, so I wouldn't call the Big Sky a pushover. Just not at the same level as the MVFC, CAA, or SoCon of old as far as depth.

All of that being said, I just want EWU to get past a fricken semi again!

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Even when those seeds lose their first game? #7 North Dakota, #6 Portland State, #8 Montana in the last 4 years. EWU is the only BSC seed to win a game. I'd say the committee needs to stop giving out seeds to mediocre teams with good records over bad teams. Results speak for themselves.
Exactly and the first round losses are against other teams that shouldnt be there.........BSC needs one team, more than that is a ****ing joke

[Bisonator]

Exactly and the first round losses are against other teams that shouldnt be there.........BSC needs one team, more than that is a ****ing joke
Why? Maybe you all should play with yourselves like the Ivies, MEAC, SWAC....seems to be the growing trend. It can be the SKY Bowl presented by Brawny, stronger then wet toilet paper.xlolx

[Silenoz]

Why? Maybe you all should play with yourselves like the Ivies, MEAC, SWAC....seems to be the growing trend. It can be the SKY Bowl presented by Brawny, stronger then wet toilet paper.xlolx

He meant in the playoffs...

- - - Updated - - -

Does anyone stick up for the Big Sky anymore besides EWU and UND fans anyways?

[F'N Hawks]

He meant in the playoffs...

- - - Updated - - -

Does anyone stick up for the Big Sky anymore besides EWU and UND fans anyways?

Not seeing many/any UND fans sticking up for it lately.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I think the OP asks in interesting question. I don't know exactly what the definition of a "power conference" should be, but in my mind, to be an elite team in the FCS, you really should make the Semis a couple times. Maybe that's overly simplistic. But since there isn't a uniform definition, I guess that could be as good as any. And, if using that measuring stick, the Big Sky really hasn't fared well. EWU and UM are the only two current Big Sky teams to make the semis in the last 25 years. UM has had the strongest run in that time, with EWU having the more recent success.

1994 was the last time the Big Sky had two teams in the semis, and one of those teams is now FBS. 1993 was the last time a Big Sky team other than EWU or UM made the semis, and that team also is FBS, though they (Idaho) will soon be rejoining the Big Sky. Then, you have to go all the way back to 1984 to find a current Big Sky team that made the semis, Montana State, who one the NC that year.

When looking at the teams in the Semis, and the variation of teams from each conference that made those deep runs in the playoffs, it gets interesting. I don't know all of the conference history, so I'm not 100% certain if some of the teams have switched conferences over time, and I'm not going to look it up. There is only one team I can't find a conference affiliation for, and appears to may have been independent at the time of their playoff run (Florida Atlantic), and they are not FCS anymore.

Since 2000, the following conferences have had a team in the semis:
19 times - CAA
15 times - SoCon
14 times - MVFC
11 times - Big Sky
7 times - Southland
2 times - OVC
1 time - Patriot

Of the teams that made it, the total number of different teams from each conference is:
8 - CAA
5 - MVFC
4 - SoCon
3 - Southland
2 - Big Sky
2 - OVC
1 - Patriot

Once again, there are quite a few teams in those numbers that have moved on. The number of different teams that remain fall out this way:
7 - CAA
5 - MVFC
2 - SoCon
2 - Southland
2 - Big Sky
1 - OVC
1 - Patriot

For specifics, since 2000, the following teams have been to the semis the following times:

CAA
4 - Delaware
3 - Nova, JMU, Richmond
2 - W&M, UNH
1 - Towson

MVFC
6 - NDSU
3 - UNI
2 - YSU
1 - SIU, UNIr

SoCon
2 - Furman
1 - Wofford

Southland
5 - SHSU
1 - McNeese

Big Sky
7 - UM
4 - EWU

OVC
1 - Jax St

Patriot
1 - Colgate


I think with conferences, there is an ebb and flow of the strength of the conference overall, so using just a few years can be too short of a time to make the determination of whether a conference is a power conference or not. That being said, I think the original premise has merit, as the Big Sky has shown to be a very top heavy conference in regards to elite teams. But the same could be said about the Southland and SoCon. The Southland has really been one elite team. The SoCon was the App St and GSU show, with Furman and Wofford poking out a little. Without App and GSU, the SoCon also only has two current conference members with deep runs. So, as it stands, with current members, I would rate the MVFC and CAA as the truly deep power conferences, and the Big Sky, SoCon, and Southland as conferences with a couple of power teams.

I think the Big Sky has some good teams in the middle, and they showed that in the OOC matches this year, and in past years. And those teams play the top teams tough, so I wouldn't call the Big Sky a pushover. Just not at the same level as the MVFC, CAA, or SoCon of old as far as depth.

All of that being said, I just want EWU to get past a fricken semi again!


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24303&stc=1........BETTERAH...LISTEN TA DUH FINAL FEW MINUTES....UH FINAL WEDGE SHOW.....DUDE.............BROCCO!

[Red & Black]

Why? Maybe you all should play with yourselves like the Ivies, MEAC, SWAC....seems to be the growing trend. It can be the SKY Bowl presented by Brawny, stronger then wet toilet paper.xlolx

Except that we played one of the toughest non-conference schedules (if not the toughest) this year, and won many of those games. Took the 5-time defending champ to OT in the barn. The Big Sky's resume in recent playoff history is one thing, but we are still playing and competing with the top tier teams in the non-conference schedule.

[dudeitsaid]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24303&stc=1........BETTERAH...LISTEN TA DUH FINAL FEW MINUTES....UH FINAL WEDGE SHOW.....DUDE.............BROCCO!

Nice, I though the wedges were done! Love listening to that podcast.

But those last few minutes...Man...that hurt my heart.

In all seriousness though, EWU exceeded my expectations this year, but I predicted based on our recruiting and youth of the team, that it would take till the 2017 season to get back to the top. And, after the performance this year, I think EWU is poised to have their best season ever. That is not to take away from the Big 3 Redux that is leaving this year. They are all playmakers, and they won't be easily replaced. And, we are losing some studs on defense that really helped move the needle in our defensive performance this year. There are some coaching shake ups that could have some impact.

But...we had one of the greenest O-lines in all of the FCS this year. They will have another year under their belt. Our D was very green and young this year. We have a lot of depth, and some returnees from injury that will produce at least the same results. We still have incredible depth at receiver who came to EWU to have the opportunity to shine. We will have at least one All American at receiver this next year. But more than that, you will see, just like when we lost the first "Big 3" greater balance in, and a more effective running game. Antoine Custer is going to be a star next year. The more experienced line is going to open big holes, and he will be faster and stronger than this year. Gage Gubrud will continue to evolve, and will be backed up by two QB's that could start for many FCS teams. Oh...And...Beau Baldwin is back. And as long as he is at the helm, EWU will always be competitive. But with the right weapons, EWU will be dominant. And that is what we will see next year.

[NDSUtk]

Nice, I though the wedges were done! Love listening to that podcast.

But those last few minutes...Man...that hurt my heart.

In all seriousness though, EWU exceeded my expectations this year, but I predicted based on our recruiting and youth of the team, that it would take till the 2017 season to get back to the top. And, after the performance this year, I think EWU is poised to have their best season ever. That is not to take away from the Big 3 Redux that is leaving this year. They are all playmakers, and they won't be easily replaced. And, we are losing some studs on defense that really helped move the needle in our defensive performance this year. There are some coaching shake ups that could have some impact.

But...we had one of the greenest O-lines in all of the FCS this year. They will have another year under their belt. Our D was very green and young this year. We have a lot of depth, and some returnees from injury that will produce at least the same results. We still have incredible depth at receiver who came to EWU to have the opportunity to shine. We will have at least one All American at receiver this next year. But more than that, you will see, just like when we lost the first "Big 3" greater balance in, and a more effective running game. Antoine Custer is going to be a star next year. The more experienced line is going to open big holes, and he will be faster and stronger than this year. Gage Gubrud will continue to evolve, and will be backed up by two QB's that could start for many FCS teams. Oh...And...Beau Baldwin is back. And as long as he is at the helm, EWU will always be competitive. But with the right weapons, EWU will be dominant. And that is what we will see next year.
I think most believe NDSU will be a more solid team next year as well except the unknown on the offensive line. Reading your thoughts on EWU makes me stoked to get there next fall.

Any hotel recommendations by the way? I'm a Hilton brand guy if there happens to be any in the area.

[Noryan34]

If you use the FBS as model for "power" conferences. Championship caliber teams or success has very little to do with it. Half the P5 conferences are very top heavy when it comes to championship teams. Typically the ACC has 1-2 good teams, until recently the B1G was a 2 team league, and since Carrol and Harbaugh have left the PAC12 that conference has dwindled (albeit it is coming back now). Now maybe it is the excess promotion of the SEC that has skewed people's opinion but my argument would be that the 'power' conferences are aligned more due to revenue than on field success. While on field success can drive revenue to a certain degree, the majority of those conferences are large school, large fan base teams. If a power conference where just based on success then The Mountain West would be a power conference because of the success of Boise St.

I would compare the Big Sky to the BIG12; good every year but find a way during the season to make you shake your head for picking them to win anything.