Chicago State football

[dgtw]

I was looking at the WAC message board and saw a thread about this. It seems the basketball coach, who is also the AD, recommended they start a non-scholarship team and join the Pioneer League. I couldn't find an article, but the guy posting it linked the board meeting. Here is the thread.

http://www.scout.com/sports/college/cfn/forums/2368-wac-board/15240320-chicago-state-will-create-an-exploratory-committee-for


This has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. They can't keep the library or cafeteria open and no hot water in the dorms. The last freshman class had fewer than 100 people. The state would probably shut them down if they could. And they want to play football. The whole athletic department needs to be shut down to save money.

The link above is for the football thread but there are others on there about the school's situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Laker]

With 86 freshman coming in last fall- and 30% of them being athletes- I don't know how they can even consider starting football.

[rokamortis]

With 86 freshman coming in last fall- and 30% of them being athletes- I don't know how they can even consider starting football.

He's probably trying to increase the enrollment. 100 more students who would pay tuition to play football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Having a football team might interest more athletes to enroll at Chicago State and increase overall enrollment, which is probably the thinking. Remember, all the athletes would be paying their way or getting federal aid, which is money for the school. So it's probably not completely idiotic.

Having said that, the school should probably fix its myriad other problems first before trying to increase enrollment.

[ASU33]

This HAS to be a joke right?xeyebrowx

[Bucs2016]

Charleston Southern was known as "Baptist College" until 1989. It had a collapsing enrollment and no football team. They changed the name to CSU and started football in part to get name exposure (schools name in paper every week even in a loss).

Now...school is 6000 students and growing and football is a top 25 caliber team.

May sound foolish. But starting football can be PART OF an effort to grow a school from nothing to something stable.

[Bucs2016]

He's probably trying to increase the enrollment. 100 more students who would pay tuition to play football.

Yep. And some will bring high school girlfriends with them. Sounds silly but the athletics dept is the front porch of a university. Many have said that. And a football team is like a big wrap around front porch.

[TennBison]

The school name just sounds wrong. Chicago (a city) State.

[lionsrking2]

I was looking at the WAC message board and saw a thread about this. It seems the basketball coach, who is also the AD, recommended they start a non-scholarship team and join the Pioneer League. I couldn't find an article, but the guy posting it linked the board meeting. Here is the thread.

http://www.scout.com/sports/college/cfn/forums/2368-wac-board/15240320-chicago-state-will-create-an-exploratory-committee-for


This has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. They can't keep the library or cafeteria open and no hot water in the dorms. The last freshman class had fewer than 100 people. The state would probably shut them down if they could. And they want to play football. The whole athletic department needs to be shut down to save money.

The link above is for the football thread but there are others on there about the school's situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually makes a lot of sense. D3 or non scholarship FCS football can be quite profitable for low enrollment schools. Surprised they haven't considered it sooner.

[MUfan]

Why would the PFL want them?

[UAalum72]

The school name just sounds wrong. Chicago (a city) State.
Maybe only because because you're not used to it, or that it's such a large city. See also Portland State, Savannah State, Youngstown State, Jackson State, and many others.

[Laker]

Cougar men almost won at Northwestern in basketball tonight on the Big Ten Network- 68-64.

They were talking about the money problems at the school during the broadcast.

[Libertine]

It's not a far-fetched idea at all. Statistically, schools with football programs have higher enrollment than those without. In recent years, a number of schools with falling enrollment have turned to adding low-level football programs just to bring those numbers up.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Why would the PFL want them?

Yeah, that's my question, too.

[ST_Lawson]

Well, my first thought about this was "you can not be serious". But after reading some of the arguments, I'd upgrade it to a solid "unlikely, but potentially something there".

Regarding Charleston Southern's changeover, what was their financial situation going into it? I know that the funding situation is different with a private school than it is with a public one, but does the money come from the church itself? Was there an endowment set up that they were supposed to draw upon? I'm just curious if they were given a bit of money to make the change happen, expecting (and apparently rightfully so) to be able to make it worth the investment with improved enrollment and excitement around the school towards a successful football team?

I'm asking because if it requires any sort of money...I'm reasonably certain that the state will not help out in any way whatsoever.

[Franks Tanks]

It's not a far-fetched idea at all. Statistically, schools with football programs have higher enrollment than those without. In recent years, a number of schools with falling enrollment have turned to adding low-level football programs just to bring those numbers up.

The school should be closed. Gradution rate is abysmal, and I read that the school spends 2.5 million per graduate!

Northeastern Illinois University and the University of Illinois at Chicago are solid public schools in the city doing a much better job in every way.

[SENOREIDA]

Charleston Southern was known as "Baptist College" until 1989. It had a collapsing enrollment and no football team. They changed the name to CSU and started football in part to get name exposure (schools name in paper every week even in a loss).

Now...school is 6000 students and growing and football is a top 25 caliber team.

May sound foolish. But starting football can be PART OF an effort to grow a school from nothing to something stable.
Chicago State is so dead in the water, it can't even be used in the same breath as Chuck South. Chicago St has shut down multiple times in the last couple years and still spends money like it is growing on trees. The school is doomed and football won't save them.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Chicago State is so dead in the water, it can't even be used in the same breath as Chuck South. Chicago St has shut down multiple times in the last couple years and still spends money like it is growing on trees. The school is doomed and football won't save them.

That's what I thought!! They school has major financial troubles....

Their graduation rate is 11%! How can that be justified?!?!

[Laker]

That's what I thought!! They school has major financial troubles....

Their graduation rate is 11%! How can that be justified?!?!

Politics. Nothing ever seems to change in Chicago. They just spend more and more money and don't get results.

[Redbird007]

The school should be closed. Gradution rate is abysmal, and I read that the school spends 2.5 million per graduate!

Northeastern Illinois University and the University of Illinois at Chicago are solid public schools in the city doing a much better job in every way.

Precisely

[Redbird007]

Politics. Nothing ever seems to change in Chicago. They just spend more and more money and don't get results.


And those 11% that do graduate are getting such a marginal education as well. Speaking of graduation rates was looking at some of the FCS playoff team's graduation rates...there are some that really need to improve too.

[Model Citizen]

Why would the PFL want them?

The PFL wants membership numbers, and they'll take anyone.

State schools are ok. Schools without stadiums are fine.

Announce you're leaving the PFL before actually playing your first PFL game? No hard feelings.

If you give scholarships, you'll be sanctioned. Then if someone uncovers that you didn't come completely clean...that you engaged in more cheating, for more years, than previously disclosed...u get another slap on the wrist. Eventually, the league gives up and lets you compete for the league title with your scholarship players.

The Pioneer is all about Chicago, anyway. Well...white suburban Chicago.

Still, this particular HBU would work in the Pioneer, because it's in Chicago.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The PFL wants membership numbers, and they'll take anyone.

State schools are ok. Schools without stadiums are fine.

Announce you're leaving the PFL before actually playing your first PFL game? No hard feelings.

If you give scholarships, you'll be sanctioned. Then if someone uncovers that you didn't come completely clean...that you engaged in more cheating, for more years, than previously disclosed...u get another slap on the wrist. Eventually, the league gives up and lets you compete for the league title with your scholarship players.

The Pioneer is all about Chicago, anyway. Well...white suburban Chicago.

Still, this particular HBU would work in the Pioneer, because it's in Chicago.

You forgot the part about deciding to yank a league title from one West Coast team to instead bestow it upon a team that happened to have a more favorable geographic matchup with other FCS teams in the Midwest and southern Midwest. Aside from that, spot on.

[dgtw]

I agree that starting a non-scholarship football team would be a good way to raise enrolment and the university's profile. But this is not a normal university. They are barely hanging financially as it is and the start-up costs of a team are more than they can realistically afford.

But if they did start a team I see no reason why the Pioneer League wouldn't take them. They are located near a major airport, so getting there isn't a problem. Plus they aren't too far away from several league members.

[Twentysix]

I agree that starting a non-scholarship football team would be a good way to raise enrolment and the university's profile. But this is not a normal university. They are barely hanging financially as it is and the start-up costs of a team are more than they can realistically afford.

But if they did start a team I see no reason why the Pioneer League wouldn't take them. They are located near a major airport, so getting there isn't a problem. Plus they aren't too far away from several league members.

Has the pioneer taken other programs with such sketchy academics?

I'm only familiar with a few pioneer programs, but they are some really quality academic institutions.

[LehighU11]

Has the pioneer taken other programs with such sketchy academics?

I'm only familiar with a few pioneer programs, but they are some really quality academic institutions.
Does College of Faith count as an associate member for football?

[Twentysix]

Does College of Faith count as an associate member for football?

Why would a 1 sport conference have an associate member? I'm not following whatever bad joke you are trying to make. I was asking an honest question.

[dgtw]

I really don't know what the PFL's standards are. I guess their sketchy situation might cause a roadblock. I was just saying they'd fit into the conference footprint.

But they'll still have ten members after Campbell leaves. They are in a unique situation. Nobody leaves unless they start offering scholarships and nobody is looking to join from another league. So it's not like they can go looking for new members.

[Twentysix]

I really don't know what the PFL's standards are. I guess there sketchy situation might cause a roadblock. I was just saying they'd fit into the conference footprint.

Yeah, me either. All I know is butler, drake, san diego, and dayton have solid academics. San Diego and Dayton much above the others I listed. I don't really know anything about the others in the conference.

[LehighU11]

Why would a 1 sport conference have an associate member? I'm not following whatever bad joke you are trying to make. I was asking an honest question.
Yup, thanks for correcting me at this hour. Immediately remembered that the PFL is strictly a football conference.

I agree that the conference has solid institutions. CoF was merely low-hanging fruit that fit the bill for sketchy academics.

[LehighU11]

Yeah, me either. All I know is butler, drake, san diego, and dayton have solid academics. San Diego and Dayton much above the others I listed. I don't really know anything about the others in the conference.
Davidson is the best of the bunch academically. Marist is no slouch, either.

[dgtw]

Faith wasn't even a real college. Chicago State is at least an actual accredited university.

[ST_Lawson]

I agree that starting a non-scholarship football team would be a good way to raise enrolment and the university's profile. But this is not a normal university. They are barely hanging financially as it is and the start-up costs of a team are more than they can realistically afford.

But if they did start a team I see no reason why the Pioneer League wouldn't take them. They are located near a major airport, so getting there isn't a problem. Plus they aren't too far away from several league members.

Two pretty major airports actually, but your point stands. They're actually fairly close to Chicago Midway, and O'Hare isn't too far away either.

But yea...I doubt they could start up a 2-person intramural foosball team in their current state. They don't have the money to swing a football team now...possibly ever. Although if they could work out the scheduling with the local high schools and stuff, they might be able to swing using Gately Stadium (just across I-94 from CSU's campus): http://www.lisc-chicago.org/news/1502
It'd be perfectly decent for a Pioneer League-level team (looks like it's about the same size as Butler's football stadium), and Valpo, Butler, Dayton, and Drake would all be roughly 5 hours or less (driving) away.

But...I think it'd be doubtful that they could even afford the uniforms.

[Twentysix]

Two pretty major airports actually, but your point stands. They're actually fairly close to Chicago Midway, and O'Hare isn't too far away either.

But yea...I doubt they could start up a 2-person intramural foosball team in their current state. They don't have the money to swing a football team now...possibly ever. Although if they could work out the scheduling with the local high schools and stuff, they might be able to swing using Gately Stadium (just across I-94 from CSU's campus): http://www.lisc-chicago.org/news/1502
It'd be perfectly decent for a Pioneer League-level team (looks like it's about the same size as Butler's football stadium), and Valpo, Butler, Dayton, and Drake would all be roughly 5 hours or less (driving) away.

But...I think it'd be doubtful that they could even afford the uniforms.

I don't think schools typically buy uniforms in the NCAA. Isn't that an advertising opportunity for nike, adidas, whatever?

Maybe they could find some corporate charity to get started, then use it as a money maker like every single DIII school.

For example, I'm pretty sure Nike pays Michigan 10 million a year for the right to make Michigan's jerseys. I doubt Nike would pay a PFL school anything, but they might give them the jerseys for free.

"According to contract details released by the Michigan athletic department, the university's deal with Nike is worth $169 million over 15 years, making it by far the richest of all apparel deals in collegiate athletics. The contract, which will supply all 31 U-M athletic programs with uniforms, footwear, apparel and equipment, will pay $76.8 million in cash and $80.2 million in apparel."

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2015/07/nike_michigan_1.html

[DFW HOYA]

I don't think schools typically buy uniforms in the NCAA. Isn't that an advertising opportunity for nike, adidas, whatever?


Many schools do not have athletics-wide clothing deals. Until a decade ago, Nike would only outfit Georgetown's men's basketball team, so the other 28 sports had a hodge-podge of uniforms, most of which didn't match. Football bought its jerseys with Russell, track through Adidas, and so forth.

[OSBF]

Didn't I read that the Chicago state Campus will be the location of the Obama Presidential Library?

[Libertine]

Many schools do not have athletics-wide clothing deals.

Even when they do, it's not like they just get everything for free. Nike, Under Armour, Adidas, etc., usually comp some items especially for revenue sports at higher profile schools. But even those schools still have to pay for the vast majority of the gear they buy and, the farther down the pecking order you go, the less the athletic label is willing to just hand you.

[Redbird007]

Didn't I read that the Chicago state Campus will be the location of the Obama Presidential Library?

It will be located at Jackson Park which is right near the University of Chicago. They went with the wealth and prestige option. University of Chicago also has the first heisman trophy winner and it is displayed in their athletic center.

[citdog]

Davidson is the best of the bunch academically..

Davidson pisses me off. If Wofford can win in the SoCon why can't they?

[Go...gate]

Davidson pisses me off. If Wofford can win in the SoCon why can't they?

They could have succeeded in the Patriot League as well, but they backed out after only a few years.

[Model Citizen]

Didn't I read that the Chicago state Campus will be the location of the Obama Presidential Library?

It will be near the University of Chicago, where Obama taught constitutional law.

[OSBF]

And those 11% that do graduate are getting such a marginal education as well. Speaking of graduation rates was looking at some of the FCS playoff team's graduation rates...there are some that really need to improve too.

Chicago State degree still worth more than a degree from trump "university"

[UNIFanSince1983]

It will be located at Jackson Park which is right near the University of Chicago. They went with the wealth and prestige option. University of Chicago also has the first heisman trophy winner and it is displayed in their athletic center.

I had always thought the first Heisman was on display at Dubuque Senior High School where Jay Berwanger went to high school. After doing some looking it was apparently a replica. It was always cool to go there and see though when we would play them.

[Mocs123]

Does D3 or Pioneer League football actually make money?

We are normally talking about how much money we lose on FB at FCS schools. I realize we have 63 scholorship me to pay, but most play a $ game that pays the school $400-$500k to help offset that.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I don't think schools typically buy uniforms in the NCAA. Isn't that an advertising opportunity for nike, adidas, whatever?

Maybe they could find some corporate charity to get started, then use it as a money maker like every single DIII school.

For example, I'm pretty sure Nike pays Michigan 10 million a year for the right to make Michigan's jerseys. I doubt Nike would pay a PFL school anything, but they might give them the jerseys for free.

"According to contract details released by the Michigan athletic department, the university's deal with Nike is worth $169 million over 15 years, making it by far the richest of all apparel deals in collegiate athletics. The contract, which will supply all 31 U-M athletic programs with uniforms, footwear, apparel and equipment, will pay $76.8 million in cash and $80.2 million in apparel."

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2015/07/nike_michigan_1.html

It would also be more than just the jerseys and pants. They would have to buy all the pads and all other associated equipment which is not cheap. And as DFW Hoya has said Nike or Adidas or Under Armour usually only pays the big time teams to wear their stuff. Schlub schools have to pay although they do get a discount.

[NorthChuckSouth]

Well, my first thought about this was "you can not be serious". But after reading some of the arguments, I'd upgrade it to a solid "unlikely, but potentially something there".

Regarding Charleston Southern's changeover, what was their financial situation going into it? I know that the funding situation is different with a private school than it is with a public one, but does the money come from the church itself? Was there an endowment set up that they were supposed to draw upon? I'm just curious if they were given a bit of money to make the change happen, expecting (and apparently rightfully so) to be able to make it worth the investment with improved enrollment and excitement around the school towards a successful football team?

I'm asking because if it requires any sort of money...I'm reasonably certain that the state will not help out in any way whatsoever.

We get over a million a year from the southern Baptist convention but that goes to scholarships for students.

We changed our name in more of a marketing experiment because Charleston Southern University would draw more people (including unreligious) than Baptist College would.

Also, we have a professor embezzle millions from us in the 2000's, which left us very close to bankrupt.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/04/09/parish

The president now makes sure we have the money to build something before we break ground. It's almost like he wants to see steady growth before building something because we haven't built a new dorm on campus in a long time and our attendance has gone up by almost a thousand since 2013. He wants to make sure that we're able to pay stuff off so we don't have anything happen like before.

But we really rely on alumni giving for most of our athletic funding, which isn't the best due to multiple reasons - thus the reason for subpar facilities.

[PAllen]

Chicago State degree still worth more than a degree from trump "university"

Not by much

[Franks Tanks]

Does D3 or Pioneer League football actually make money?

We are normally talking about how much money we lose on FB at FCS schools. I realize we have 63 scholorship me to pay, but most play a $ game that pays the school $400-$500k to help offset that.

Its the d3 model of using football to attract students. Even when tuition is discounted the fact that 80 or so males attend a school they wouldn't otherwise is an ultimate financial gain for the school. As far as revenue generated from football, if any, they are still very much in the red.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Chicago State degree still worth more than a degree from trump "university"

Pretty sure they are both printed on Charmin

[ST_Lawson]

I had always thought the first Heisman was on display at Dubuque Senior High School where Jay Berwanger went to high school. After doing some looking it was apparently a replica. It was always cool to go there and see though when we would play them.

Yup...the one at DBQ Senior is a replica that was made and donated to the school not long after he won it. Unless they've moved it since they redid the football field a while back, it's in a display case in the entryway into their gymnasium.

[clenz]

Yeah, me either. All I know is butler, drake, san diego, and dayton have solid academics. San Diego and Dayton much above the others I listed. I don't really know anything about the others in the conference.
Drake lost it's business schools accreditation. It just got it back.


Also, they thought this was a great marketing campaign and paid between 75-100K to a company to come up with it

http://www.adweek.com/files/adfreak/6a00d8341c51c053ef0133f385601c970b-450wi


Instantly become a joke among MVC rivals. I mean, same day there was photo shops, signs showing up at basketball games, etc... They let the hate roll for about a month before they said "We see nothing wrong with it". About another month later they got rid of it without saying they got rid of it. All references to that disappeared from all Drake related items and it was never mentioned again.

It still lives on for those of us in the MVC and state of Iowa.

[clenz]

Its the d3 model of using football to attract students. Even when tuition is discounted the fact that 80 or so males attend a school they wouldn't otherwise is an ultimate financial gain for the school. As far as revenue generated from football, if any, they are still very much in the red.
There are a few D3s that make money, a few break even, and a few are just barely in the red....when factoring the tuition of their students athletes.

I know schools like Wartburg, in the state of Iowa, gets a DEEP discount on jerseys and gear - as well as the players paying for it as well at a discount. Wartburg also averaged about 4,500 per game at $10 per ticket.

It's tough to figure the true money a D3 program makes/loses. Warburg's tuition is over $40,000 and has about 120 kids on the roster. Let's say they average 50% tuition paid for for the entire time through other means. That's still between 2-2.5 million in tuition generated by the football program from kids who would never go to Wartburg without football.

[Pinnum]

Chicago State is an HBCU and they want to join in on the 'football classics' to get an identity and build a fanbase and campus culture like other HBCUs.

The Patriot League wouldn't even have to accept Chicago State as a member in the first few years. They can play as an independent and Valpo, Butler, Dayton, Drake, and Morehead St would all be likely to schedule them. All they need is some D1 games and then some D3 games and they have a football team.

Then they build it. Sure, they won't likely be any good but that doesn't matter. They can always find some weak D3 teams in the area to play for a homecoming game.

The real prize would be getting invited to play in the Chicago Football Classic at Soldier Field which isn't unrealistic since Clark Atlanta and Central State played in front of 34,003 this year.

Even if the team isn't strong, it isn't unreasonable to think that they could see meetings with the SWAC and MEAC.

I have been told that Chicago State is a hot button issue that no one can vote against. The community it is located in is in needs the jobs and anyone who supports shutting it down gets labeled a racist who is hurting the black community so people just avoid addressing the issue. Historically it has produced teachers for the Chicago Public Schools so there is a lot of political support for the school. Basically, it is not likely to be going anywhere anytime soon.

I can see how football and the PFL model would be good for them, with the right leadership. I have actually thought for a while now that they are actually a school with a lot of potential with the right management and vision.

[ST_Lawson]

Chicago State is an HBCU and they want to join in on the 'football classics' to get an identity and build a fanbase and campus culture like other HBCUs.

Just FYI, HBCU is actually an official designation from the US Department of Education (For a school to be legally considered an HBCU, it must have been specifically founded to educate African Americans, and have existed prior to 1964.) Chicago State is not an HBCU actually, although they do qualify as a "Minority-Serving Institution", with 86.14% of their student population being minorities (as of a 2007 survey). They don't quite have the draw and the history that most HBCU's do (even though they are technically tied with the U of I for the second-oldest public school in IL, behind IL State).

The rest of what you're saying is essentially right though. If done well, it could work for them, but I'm not sure there's the support to be able to make a football team happen. Still not sure it won't close in the near future...if they have another freshman class or two like they did this year, they'll pretty much have to, I think. As for the quality of the team, they're actually right in the middle of a pretty large talent pool for players and even if they're just "scrounging" the ones who are good but maybe don't want to go far from home...they could be pretty decent for a Pioneer League team.

[BisonTru]

Drake lost it's business schools accreditation. It just got it back.


Also, they thought this was a great marketing campaign and paid between 75-100K to a company to come up with it

http://www.adweek.com/files/adfreak/6a00d8341c51c053ef0133f385601c970b-450wi


.

That's Hilarious!

[Pinnum]

Just FYI, HBCU is actually an official designation from the US Department of Education (For a school to be legally considered an HBCU, it must have been specifically founded to educate African Americans, and have existed prior to 1964.) Chicago State is not an HBCU actually, although they do qualify as a "Minority-Serving Institution", with 86.14% of their student population being minorities (as of a 2007 survey). They don't quite have the draw and the history that most HBCU's do (even though they are technically tied with the U of I for the second-oldest public school in IL, behind IL State).

The rest of what you're saying is essentially right though. If done well, it could work for them, but I'm not sure there's the support to be able to make a football team happen. Still not sure it won't close in the near future...if they have another freshman class or two like they did this year, they'll pretty much have to, I think. As for the quality of the team, they're actually right in the middle of a pretty large talent pool for players and even if they're just "scrounging" the ones who are good but maybe don't want to go far from home...they could be pretty decent for a Pioneer League team.

I have had many a people correct me on this very point with CSU. But the technical designation is not important. In fact, Chicago State is a member college of the Thurgood Marshall College Fund. It is an HBCU, even if it doesn't hold the technical destinction of officially being labaled as such by DC.

https://tmcf.org/about-us/our-schools/member-schools

[PAllen]

I have had many a people correct me on this very point with CSU. But the technical designation is not important. In fact, Chicago State is a member college of the Thurgood Marshall College Fund. It is an HBCU, even if it doesn't hold the technical destinction of officially being labaled as such by DC.

https://tmcf.org/about-us/our-schools/member-schools

BCU?

[clenz]

That's Hilarious!
Yeah. That was probably 6 years ago now and most MVC fans (and Iowa, Creighton and Iowa State) still refer to them as D+ on message boards and (some) in person

It made CBS News


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/drake-universitys-d-plus-logo-earns-failing-grade/

A "D+" campaign logo aimed at encouraging recruitment at Drake University is getting a failing grade from some faculty, students and alumni.

They say the logo is offensive, embarrassing and tarnishes the Des Moines university's reputation.

Drake spokesman Tom Delahunt says school leaders consider any reaction a good reaction. He says that while the "D+" comes across as a grade at first glance, it's meant to represent all the opportunities Drake offers students.

The Des Moines Register (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/) says Drake hired Cedar Rapids-based Stamats Communications to help develop the "Drake Advantage" recruitment campaign, which the university recently launched through brochures and its website.

Delahunt told CBS affiliate KCCI (http://www.kcci.com/news/24862420/detail.html) that Drake wanted to a buck a trend in which most college admissions materials look the same.

"The first time I saw this, I cringed, absolutely cringed," he said.

He said after a test run with high school students had positive results, the D+ Advantage started to look like an A+ idea, the station reports.

"We needed to do something to rise above the clutter, something to make ourselves stand out," Delahunt told KCCI. "We wanted to make sure people knew about Drake."

Advertising expert Dave Sanderson said the campaign is raising some eyebrows.

"There are a lot of bad ideas that cut through the clutter and, for those guys, it's just a bad idea," Sanderson told KCCI. "They're too good of a school for that."

Another news report from a local paper had a quote from a Drake administrator saying they wanted something that was "edgy". Well, they got edgy.


I also had the timeline wrong - it was about 2 weeks of defending it before they dropped it. Here's the letter from the university president


To: Drake University Community
From: David Maxwell, President
Date: 9/9/2010
Re: Drake Advantage Admission Campaign


As you well know, there has been a great deal of attention paid to Drake’s new undergraduate admission initiative, and I personally have received a number of emails with messages ranging from “brilliant” to “what were you thinking,” and everything in between. Virtually everyone appears to think that the core messages of the Drake Advantage campaign are powerful and compelling (and the pre-launch surveys, data on inquiries and campus visits and reports from the field tell us the campaign is extremely well-received by high school students, their parents and guidance counselors). Nonetheless, the use of the D+ symbol — although intended to be ironic — has elicited reactions in constituencies who are very important to us: the campus community and our alumni.


I want to emphasize how much I — and all of us who participated in the design and approval of this initiative — appreciate the input that we have received. Although we knew that the approach was certainly unconventional for Drake, we clearly did not anticipate the intensity of concern expressed by students, faculty, staff and alumni. We take full responsibility for the unintended reactions among members of the Drake family. We are an educational institution, and we learn from our experiences.


I also want to emphasize that I recognize the concerns expressed were the direct consequence of the pride you all have in Drake and the passion you have for the University. I am grateful to you for your willingness to convey that pride and passion. Drake University has great, inspirational stories to tell, and we are all committed to doing everything we can to ensure that those stories are the focus of everyone’s attention.
Please take a look at the Drake Advantage website (www.drake.edu/advantage (http://www.drake.edu/advantage)) and see how we have responded to the input that we’ve received.




This was also happening at about the same time Drake was starting a review of it's business school accreditation, which ended up being revoked just a few years later after the review was finished.



Drake's new campaign?

http://www.drake.edu/

"Do something, Drake"

Not a bad campaign, but to those of us in the meme world? It's just as fitting as D+

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkO8hJGUkAEUdV5.jpg:largehttp://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24234&stc=1

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24235&stc=1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkO8hJGUkAEUdV5.jpg:large

[Pinnum]

BCU?

I'll accept it.

PS: anyone else have issues with the text input box on this forum? This is the only place I have the issue but it isn't letting me type spaces, so I have to copy and paste into the text box.

[Libertine]

I'll accept it.

PS: anyone else have issues with the text input box on this forum? This is the only place I have the issue but it isn't letting me type spaces, so I have to copy and paste into the text box.

YES!Ialsohavetroubletypingspacesinthisbox

[dgtw]

How about this for a promotion?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/92e9fface49289a453f5a31ce9a0acc0.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

West Virginia State is a HBCU but according to that link is down to 11% African American students. Changing demographics.

UDC is somewhat grandfathered onto the HBCU list in that it was founded in 1974, and one of its three former schools was a historically black teachers college that closed many years ago.

[ccd494]

I'll accept it.

PS: anyone else have issues with the text input box on this forum? This is the only place I have the issue but it isn't letting me type spaces, so I have to copy and paste into the text box.

If you press ctrl+v (and then delete whatever pastes in) you can then type with spaces.

[ASU33]

I'm not sold on this idea. Not against it, but definitely not sold.

[UNIFanSince1983]

How about this for a promotion?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161222/92e9fface49289a453f5a31ce9a0acc0.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These are my personal feelings on Drake


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTkkklmeFOU

[clenz]

These are my personal feelings on Drake


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTkkklmeFOU
Oddly enough, as heated as the ISU/Iowa rivalry is....and as heated as UNI fans get with both ISU and Iowa....I think Drake might legitimately be able to stake claim to the most hated school in Iowa

[Pinnum]

If you press ctrl+v (and then delete whatever pastes in) you can then type with spaces.

Thanks, for the work around. Not sure why it is doing that...

[BisonTru]

Thanks, for the work around. Not sure why it is doing that...

Also, if you just hit <enter> then <backspace> it'll start letting you place spaces. It's a chrome issue, firefox and other browsers work fine.

[Pinnum]

Also, if you just hit <enter> then <backspace> it'll start letting you place spaces. It's a chrome issue, firefox and other browsers work fine.

Perfect! Thanks.

[clenz]

Also, if you just hit <enter> then <backspace> it'll start letting you place spaces. It's a chrome issue, firefox and other browsers work fine.
I've noticed it also happening on a few other boards I've been on

[Model Citizen]

Clenz, you've got quite a history posting about Drake. What's up? Did they reject your application?

[BisonTru]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24242&stc=1

xlolx

[clenz]

Clenz, you've got quite a history posting about Drake. What's up? Did they reject your application?
Hell no. I never even thought of applying to D+.

Drake is kind of a running joke where I'm from.

Drake:Me::UNI:Iowa/Iowa State

[OSBF]

Have 4 pharmacists here in my town
All 4 went to Drake
Supposedly a pretty good program

[DFW HOYA]

More on CSU's funding trouble (also cites looming deficits at Western and Eastern Illinois):

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-state-university-financial-outlook-20161220-story.html

[Redbird Ray]

Kanye went to CSU for a bit. I believe his mom was an English teacher there. Wonder how many times the University has tried to get some Kanye/Kardashian money?

Most of the original band members from Styx also went to CSU.

[Redbird Ray]

While I agree that CSU has no business trying to start up football right now, I always thought a program there would succeed. Strong NAIA/D3 rivals nearby with St. Xavier and UofC. Good amount of FCS schools w/n a 6 hour or so drive. Also, currently no D1 football schools in the Chicago city limits (even NYC has Columbia and Wagner). I'm sure the traditional HBCU's would like to schedule home and home dates with CSU as well.

And for those not familiar, Gately stadium on Chicago's south side is essentially the high school football stadium for the entire south side of Chicago. Every weekend in the fall from Thursday afternoon through late Sunday night, one can watch HS football at Gately. Give out free or discounted tickets to all of those patrons each weekend CSU would have a home game and you suddenly have a core fan base of 5k or so. Something to consider.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

IBHE provided Chicago State, along with Eastern Illinois University and Western Illinois University, with the equivalent of one month's payroll. Western received about $8.4 million and Eastern about $5.6 million.


Without further state funding this school year, Eastern would spend $19 million from its cash reserves, while Western would burn through $16 million of unrestricted cash and begin spending restricted funds set aside under bond covenants, according to documents submitted to the IBHE.


None of the universities will have reserves of this magnitude next year and will need to find new sources of funding to continue operations for another school year.


Meanwhile, Illinois, in the last USA Today subsidies database, received $3.7 million in subsidies and had to total athletics budget of $85 million.

[Redbird007]

While I agree that CSU has no business trying to start up football right now, I always thought a program there would succeed. Strong NAIA/D3 rivals nearby with St. Xavier and UofC. Good amount of FCS schools w/n a 6 hour or so drive. Also, currently no D1 football schools in the Chicago city limits (even NYC has Columbia and Wagner). I'm sure the traditional HBCU's would like to schedule home and home dates with CSU as well.

And for those not familiar, Gately stadium on Chicago's south side is essentially the high school football stadium for the entire south side of Chicago. Every weekend in the fall from Thursday afternoon through late Sunday night, one can watch HS football at Gately. Give out free or discounted tickets to all of those patrons each weekend CSU would have a home game and you suddenly have a core fan base of 5k or so. Something to consider.

UofC and Chicago State could not be any more opposite. Arguably the best academic school playing arguably the worst academic school. UofC with a 7.5 billion endowment vs bankruptcy. Certainly would make for an interesting game on the field.

[Redbird Ray]

UofC and Chicago State could not be any more opposite. Arguably the best academic school playing arguably the worst academic school. UofC with a 7.5 billion endowment vs bankruptcy. Certainly would make for an interesting game on the field.

This is very true. And if UofC were to ever play a D1 school again, it would almost certainly be against an Ivy or Patriot League team. They seem pretty content in their league of D3 rust belt academic powers.

[NY Crusader 2010]

This is very true. And if UofC were to ever play a D1 school again, it would almost certainly be against an Ivy or Patriot League team. They seem pretty content in their league of D3 rust belt academic powers.

Not a bad life, especially with a Heisman trophy in the case. I do think that game would be a pretty cool thing for the city of Chicago (or at least the 1500 people who would care to go to that). Could be Chicago State's inaugural game.

[Twentysix]

Have 4 pharmacists here in my town
All 4 went to Drake
Supposedly a pretty good program

Yeah my cousin and cousin's spouse are drake grads. One's a pharmacist. Pretty good gig, together they pull in a half mil and got a house in Chicago as a signing bonus (through the pharm job). The other was an executive at an international appliance manufacturer. They do a lot better than my friends from NDSU who are pharmacists. But, he might have just lucked out for some reason and it might not have much to do with Drake. I really don't know.

Edited: removed some potentially identifiable language.

[Twentysix]

It may be technically true that there are no D1 football schools in the Chicago City limits, Northwestern sure feels like it is in Chicago. You can really easily ride the L to a Northwestern game.

I wish San Diego had that kind of setup instead of the piece of **** transit we have.

[Sycamore62]

It may be technically true that there are no D1 football schools in the Chicago City limits, Northwestern sure feels like it is in Chicago. You can really easily ride the L to a Northwestern game.

I wish San Diego had that kind of setup instead of the piece of **** transit we have.

id recommend sticking with what you have and not wishing the horrors of Chicago upon yourself

[clenz]

Have 4 pharmacists here in my town
All 4 went to Drake
Supposedly a pretty good program
Drake has fine pharmacy and law (I assume) programs.

The joke is that, like most private schools, they think their entire university and all programs are something much higher than they actually are and places like UNI can't compete in any area....as they lose their business school accreditation and UNI is widely recognized as one of the best there is. Hell, go through Des Moines accounting and insurance firms. I'd bet UNI graduates outnumber Drake graduates down there 4 or 5:1

Mostly, **** Drake

[dgtw]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161228/dedf5e37d1a37588314362da739505c4.png
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161228/d2db4b2aa91b0737b4b53bb86c97b340.png



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ASU33]

While I agree that CSU has no business trying to start up football right now, I always thought a program there would succeed. Strong NAIA/D3 rivals nearby with St. Xavier and UofC. Good amount of FCS schools w/n a 6 hour or so drive. Also, currently no D1 football schools in the Chicago city limits (even NYC has Columbia and Wagner). I'm sure the traditional HBCU's would like to schedule home and home dates with CSU as well.

And for those not familiar, Gately stadium on Chicago's south side is essentially the high school football stadium for the entire south side of Chicago. Every weekend in the fall from Thursday afternoon through late Sunday night, one can watch HS football at Gately. Give out free or discounted tickets to all of those patrons each weekend CSU would have a home game and you suddenly have a core fan base of 5k or so. Something to consider.

Maybe one of the CIAA or SIAC schools. I don't see the scheduling advantages of scheduling CSU.

[superman7515]

It may be technically true that there are no D1 football schools in the Chicago City limits, Northwestern sure feels like it is in Chicago. You can really easily ride the L to a Northwestern game.

I wish San Diego had that kind of setup instead of the piece of **** transit we have.

You can thank General Motors for that.

[Twentysix]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161228/dedf5e37d1a37588314362da739505c4.png
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161228/d2db4b2aa91b0737b4b53bb86c97b340.png



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah it was 78 today. I had seafood outside at the marina. xthumbsupx

[OSBF]

Meanwhile, Illinois, in the last USA Today subsidies database, received $3.7 million in subsidies and had to total athletics budget of $85 million.

Heard on sports radio the other day that the revenue illannoy receives from the B10 network, just that one single revenue stream, is more than the entire athletic budgets of ILS,EIU,WIU and SIU.

[clenz]

Heard on sports radio the other day that the revenue illannoy receives from the B10 network, just that one single revenue stream, is more than the entire athletic budgets of ILS,EIU,WIU and SIU.
BTN is worth about 40-45 million.

I'm pretty sure SIU is between 20-25m. I guess it's possible that ISUR, WIU and WIU all average about 6 million a piece for an entire athletic budget....buuuuuut.....I'm pretty sure ISUr is also about 20 million

[caribbeanhen]

Yeah it was 78 today. I had seafood outside at the marina. xthumbsupx

but did you take a dip....

[OSBF]

BTN is worth about 40-45 million.

I'm pretty sure SIU is between 20-25m. I guess it's possible that ISUR, WIU and WIU all average about 6 million a piece for an entire athletic budget....buuuuuut.....I'm pretty sure ISUr is also about 20 million
I don't think the on air personality was meaning cumulative

[clenz]

I don't think the on air personality was meaning cumulative
How else would it have been meant?

BTN money was more than all of those from day 1 of the BTN as it has been around 25-30 mil from day 1

[344Johnson]

The school name just sounds wrong. Chicago (a city) State.

Mayville, Valley City, Williston, Bismarck, and Dickinson State all sound wrong to you then?

[clenz]

The school name just sounds wrong. Chicago (a city) State.This is a dumb cross to die on. You do realize "State University" just means it's state run, right?


Jacksonville State (AL)
Henderson State (AR)
San Diego State (CA)
Cal Poly State (CA)
Sonoma State (CA)
Adams State (CO)
Central Conn State (CT) - directions are states except North, South and West
Southern Conn State (CT) - directions are states except North, South and West
Western Conn State (CT) - directions are states except North, South and West
Albany State (GA)
Clayton State (GA)
Columbus State (GA)
Fort Valley (GA)
Georgia Southwestern State (GA)
Kennesaw State (GA)
South Georgia State (GA) - South Georgia isn't a state
Middle Georgia State (GA) - Middle Georgia isn't a state
Savannah State (GA)
Valdosta State (GA)
Boise State (ID)
Chicago State (IL)
Governors State (IL)
Ball State (IN)
Emporia State (KS)
Fort Hays State (KS)
Pittsburg State (KS)
Wichita State (KS)
Morehead State (KY)
Murray State (KY)
Grambling State (LA)
McNeese State (LA)
Northwestern State (LA)
Morgan State (MD)
Bowie State (MD)
Coppin State (MD)
Frostburg State (MD)
Bridgewater State (MA)
Fitchburg State (MA)
Framingham State (MA)
Salem State (MA)
Westfield State (MA)
Worcester State (MA)
Ferris State (MI)
Grand Valley State (MI)
Lake Superior State (MI)
Saginaw Valley (MI)
Wayne State (MI)
Bemidji State (MN)
Metropolitan State (MN)
Southwest Minnesota State (MN)
St. Cloud State (MN)
Winona State (MN)

Alcorn State (MS)
Delta State (MS)
Jackson State (MS)
Mississippi Valley State (MS) - MS Valley isn't a state
Harris-Stow State (MO)
Missouri Southern State (MO) - MO Southern isn't a state
Missouri Western State (MO) - MO Western isn't a state
NW Missouri State (MO) - NW MO isn't a state
SE Missouri State (MO) - SE MO isn't a state
Truman State (MO)
Granite State (NH)
Kenne State (NH)
Plymouth State (NH)
Montclair State (NJ)
Thomas Edison State (NJ)
App State (NC)
Elizabeth City State (NC)
Fayetteville State (NC)
NC A&T State (NC) - NC A&T isn't a state
Winston-Salem State (NC)
Dickinson State (ND)
Mayville State (ND)
Minot State (ND)
Valley City State (ND)
Bowling Green State (OH)
Central State (OH)
Cleveland State (OH)
Kent State (OH)
Shawnee State (OH)
Wright State (OH)
Youngstown State (OH)
Northeastern State (OK)
Northwestern OK State (OK) - Northwestern OK isn't a state
Rogers State (OK)
SW Oklahoma State (OK) - SW OK isn't a state
SE Oklahoma State (OK) - SE OK isn't a state
Portland State (OR)
Black Hills State (SD)
Dakota State (SD)
Northern State (SD)
Austin Peay State (TN)
East Tennessee State (TN) - East TN isn't a state
Middle Tennessee State (TN) - Middle TN isn't a state
Midwestern State (TX)
Stephen F Austin State (TX)
Tarleton State (TX)
Sam Houston State (TX)
Sul Ross State (TX)
Angelo State (TX)
Dixie State (UT) - hell, Utah isn't even a ****ing Dixie state
Weber State (UT)
Norfolk State (VA)
Fairmont State (WV)

[Laker]

OT- I wonder how a school decides to be Central or Middle? Off the top of my head I can think of several Centrals but only one Middle- Middle TN State. Anyone know why they picked that moniker?

[OSBF]

OT- I wonder how a school decides to be Central or Middle? Off the top of my head I can think of several Centrals but only one Middle- Middle TN State. Anyone know why they picked that moniker?

And there's an upper Iowa

Is there a Middle Iowa?

Hows about a Lower Iowa?

[clenz]

And there's an upper Iowa

Is there a Middle Iowa?

Hows about a Lower Iowa?
Northern Iowa (D1)
Upper Iowa (D2)
Eastern Iowa CC
Iowa Central CC
Iowa Western CC
North Iowa Area CC
Northeast Iowa Area CC
Northwest Iowa CC
Southeastern CC
Southwestern CC
Western Iowa Tech CC



Upper Iowa is only about 45 minutes north of Northern Iowa (probably only about 20-30 miles straight line but drive time is different)

[OSBF]

Northern Iowa (D1)
Upper Iowa (D2)
Eastern Iowa CC
Iowa Central CC
Iowa Western CC
North Iowa Area CC
Northeast Iowa Area CC
Northwest Iowa CC
Southeastern CC
Southwestern CC
Western Iowa Tech CC



Upper Iowa is only about 45 minutes north of Northern Iowa (probably only about 20-30 miles straight line but drive time is different)

They were at RBA few years ago for WBB