ESPN: The Tragic Tale Behind A Heisman Underdog

[DFW HOYA]

"It was a pivotal time at Holy Cross," said Lockbaum. "The college talked about going to bowl games. They wanted to be recognized, and [Rick] Carter was going to be the one to make that happen."

http://cdn.espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/18217812/in-history-holy-cross-football-there-tragic-story-often-told

[Sader87]

Probably the last time HC actually cared about athletics. This was after we declined to join the Big East.

Unfortunately, there hasn't been another alumnus of HC like Edward Bennett Williams (who once owned majority parts of both the Redskins and the Orioles). Wealthy and/or influential Holy Cross alums since then have mostly fallen in line with the deemphasis of athletics at HC.

My brother was a walk-on on Carter's last team....very sad story.

[Franks Tanks]

Probably the last time HC actually cared about athletics. This was after we declined to join the Big East.

Unfortunately, there hasn't been another alumnus of HC like Edward Bennett Williams (who once owned majority parts of both the Redskins and the Orioles). Wealthy and/or influential Holy Cross alums since then have mostly fallen in line with the deemphasis of athletics at HC.

My brother was a walk-on on Carter's last team....very sad story.

Holy Cross never had a chance in FBS/I-A. Sorry. A school of less than 3,000 students located in an area that doesn't care about about college football doesn't have a fit in FBS. Father Brooks, Carter and others get blamed but they made the right decision.

[Sader87]

Basketball....not football

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross never had a chance in FBS/I-A. Sorry. A school of less than 3,000 students located in an area that doesn't care about about college football doesn't have a fit in FBS. Father Brooks, Carter and others get blamed but they made the right decision.

Difficult, but not impossible--Rice and Tulsa are good examples. Tulsa has 3,174 undergraduates and plays in a 30,000 seat stadium. As an AAC member, it hosted San Jose State, SMU, Tulane Cincinnati, and East Carolina this year and are headed to the Miami Beach Bowl this month. Average attendance: 19,234.

Had HC gone the I-A route, it would have led to expanding Fitton Field to 35-40,000 seats (there was a time when BC's Alumni Stadium was not much larger than Fitton) and host many national opponents and ESPN games. Even if it didn't, HC would likely have gone the way of Villanova and maintain a very strong national I-AA program in the Yankee/A-10/CAA.

In either scenario, the Colonial League would likely have not been created and likely would have involved another Jesuit as president. Rev. Brooks was combative with I-A athletics and schools that elevated it (Georgetown was a particular target of his ire) and in hindsight might have preferred HC going the full NESCAC route, but the college's alumni would have never supported it.

What definitely would have changed would have been the elevation of basketball. At the very least, HC basketball in this scenario would likely be among the lines of Seton Hall or Providence. Instead, HC has won just once NCAA game since the formation of the Big East and PL basketball is an afterthought in the Northeast.

Equally unlikely but an interesting topic across the bar: in 1998, the Big East offered its four I-AA schools a free pass to join the league to shore up its football unity--only one (UConn) took the offer. How much different would things have been, if any, if Villanova, Georgetown, and St. John's all followed suit and went I-A?

[Go Green]

Instead, HC has won just once NCAA game since the formation of the Big East and PL basketball is an afterthought in the Northeast.

And a great NIT win over Notre Dame!


Equally unlikely but an interesting topic across the bar: in 1998, the Big East offered its four I-AA schools a free pass to join the league to shore up its football unity--only one (UConn) took the offer. How much different would things have been, if any, if Villanova, Georgetown, and St. John's all followed suit and went I-A?

Georgetown was nowhere near FBS-ready in 1998. I'm not as familiar with St. John's, but I'm guessing they weren't either.

[SUPharmacist]

Difficult, but not impossible--Rice and Tulsa are good examples. Tulsa has 3,174 undergraduates and plays in a 30,000 seat stadium. As an AAC member, it hosted San Jose State, SMU, Tulane Cincinnati, and East Carolina this year and are headed to the Miami Beach Bowl this month. Average attendance: 19,234.

They meet the size criteria, but are also both in more football crazed areas.

[Go...gate]

Difficult, but not impossible--Rice and Tulsa are good examples. Tulsa has 3,174 undergraduates and plays in a 30,000 seat stadium. As an AAC member, it hosted San Jose State, SMU, Tulane Cincinnati, and East Carolina this year and are headed to the Miami Beach Bowl this month. Average attendance: 19,234.

Had HC gone the I-A route, it would have led to expanding Fitton Field to 35-40,000 seats (there was a time when BC's Alumni Stadium was not much larger than Fitton) and host many national opponents and ESPN games. Even if it didn't, HC would likely have gone the way of Villanova and maintain a very strong national I-AA program in the Yankee/A-10/CAA.

In either scenario, the Colonial League would likely have not been created and likely would have involved another Jesuit as president. Rev. Brooks was combative with I-A athletics and schools that elevated it (Georgetown was a particular target of his ire) and in hindsight might have preferred HC going the full NESCAC route, but the college's alumni would have never supported it.

What definitely would have changed would have been the elevation of basketball. At the very least, HC basketball in this scenario would likely be among the lines of Seton Hall or Providence. Instead, HC has won just once NCAA game since the formation of the Big East and PL basketball is an afterthought in the Northeast.

Equally unlikely but an interesting topic across the bar: in 1998, the Big East offered its four I-AA schools a free pass to join the league to shore up its football unity--only one (UConn) took the offer. How much different would things have been, if any, if Villanova, Georgetown, and St. John's all followed suit and went I-A?

I believe HC could have pulled it off. Never knew until now that Brooks would not let Carter break his contract to better himself. What a jerk.

[Go Green]

I believe HC could have pulled it off. Never knew until now that Brooks would not let Carter break his contract to better himself. What a jerk.

I hadn't heard that either. I wonder if that emboldened Dartmouth Coach Joe Yukica to take Dartmouth to court to play out his contract rather than be fired a year early (as Dartmouth preferred).

[Go...gate]

I hadn't heard that either. I wonder if that emboldened Dartmouth Coach Joe Yukica to take Dartmouth to court to play out his contract rather than be fired a year early (as Dartmouth preferred).

That is a very good point, Go Green. That was an ugly situation.

[superman7515]

Unfortunately, there hasn't been another alumnus of HC like Edward Bennett Williams (who once owned majority parts of both the Redskins and the Orioles).

Thread drift, but whatever... EB Williams never owned a majority share of the Redskins. When George Preston Marshall passed away in 1969, both Williams and Jack Kent Cooke were minority owners, with Cooke owning the largest share of any remaining investor (25% of the team, which was more than 50% of the shares not owned by the Marshall family). Cooke became the sole majority owner in 1974, but allowed Williams to run the Redskins as team president until the late 70's because Jack Kent Cooke lived in LA and also owned the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and Los Angeles Wolves (1970's version of pro soccer) and was heavily involved in boxing where he was the financial backer for the first Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier fight. Once he sold the Lakers & Kings to Jerry Buss, he moved to DC to took over day to day operations.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown was nowhere near FBS-ready in 1998. I'm not as familiar with St. John's, but I'm guessing they weren't either.

No they weren't, but the offer was still there, although commissioner Mike Tranghese was publicly dismissive of Georgetown during the process (the Providence folks never quite warmed up to Georgetown in those years...)

St. John's and football is a story waiting to be told. When the basketball schools threatened to block the addition of Rutgers and West Virginia in 1995, St. John's cast the decisive vote to expand, and it was speculated that it saw football as a future opportunity and wanted to protect its interests. St. John's left the MAAC and joined the NEC a few years later, and there was Internet chatter that it was eyeing Shea Stadium as a future home should it ever make the leap forward. Instead, they abruptly pulled the plug on the NEC and the program imploded.

[Go Green]

St. John's and football is a story waiting to be told. When the basketball schools threatened to block the addition of Rutgers and West Virginia in 1995, St. John's cast the decisive vote to expand, and it was speculated that it saw football as a future opportunity and wanted to protect its interests. St. John's left the MAAC and joined the NEC a few years later, and there was Internet chatter that it was eyeing Shea Stadium as a future home should it ever make the leap forward. Instead, they abruptly pulled the plug on the NEC and the program imploded.

I for one would enjoy hearing more about how St. John's demise went down. They were lousy when the plug was actually pulled, but they were only a few seasons removed from being pretty competitive.

[UIWWildthing]

Probably the last time HC actually cared about athletics. This was after we declined to join the Big East.

Unfortunately, there hasn't been another alumnus of HC like Edward Bennett Williams (who once owned majority parts of both the Redskins and the Orioles)..

He's the reason that the Orioles play at Camden Yards. Helped get the Orioles a new stadium deal after the Colts left in 1984

[superman7515]

He's the reason that the Orioles play at Camden Yards. Helped get the Orioles a new stadium deal after the Colts left in 1984

Didn't have much of a choice; he was going to move the Orioles to DC, news leaked out, and there were huge protestations in the newspapers and local TV at that time. People on there daily talking about never going to another Orioles game, refusing to buy merchandise and tickets, companies saying they wouldn't buy ads, etc. For the entire time he had the Orioles, he maintained in the contract that they could play up to 15% of their home games in Washington DC. The people of Baltimore forced him to keep the team where he didn't want it because he couldn't afford to make them made after what happened with the Baltimore/Washington DC Bullets situation in the NBA.

[Go Green]

he maintained in the contract that they could play up to 15% of their home games in Washington DC. .

Had Baltimore actually allowed that, then Williams' successor might have had more success blocking DC from getting the Expos (Nationals). Too many people in DC got sick of driving up to Baltimore to see a game (even at a park as beautiful as Camden Yards).

[grayghost06]

That was also the time period when the Baltimore baseball club was strictly marketed as the "Orioles". Was a concerted effort to leave the word "Baltimore" out of ads and uniforms.

As far as 'ol Ed Williams and Holy Cross were concerned, not sure if his role would be viewed positively or negatively by the athletics people. Yes, he was instrumental in getting Rick Carter there, but he was also a power broker during both the time where Holy Cross turned down the Big East and when they accepted the "demotion" to I-AA ball. He also was a main player in not allowing Carter to break his contract. And it was he who was Chairman of the Board when the termination of the BC series occurred and Holy Cross joined the non scholly Colonial Football League . Almost makes me think that Fr. Brooks wielded more power than the Board.

[Go Green]

That was also the time period when the Baltimore baseball club was strictly marketed as the "Orioles". Was a concerted effort to leave the word "Baltimore" out of ads and uniforms.

.

Oddly enough, DC wasn't satisfied with that. :)

[Go...gate]

That was also the time period when the Baltimore baseball club was strictly marketed as the "Orioles". Was a concerted effort to leave the word "Baltimore" out of ads and uniforms.

As far as 'ol Ed Williams and Holy Cross were concerned, not sure if his role would be viewed positively or negatively by the athletics people. Yes, he was instrumental in getting Rick Carter there, but he was also a power broker during both the time where Holy Cross turned down the Big East and when they accepted the "demotion" to I-AA ball. He also was a main player in not allowing Carter to break his contract. And it was he who was Chairman of the Board when the termination of the BC series occurred and Holy Cross joined the non-scholly Colonial (now Patriot) League. Almost makes me think that Fr. Brooks wielded more power than the Board.

He did. And it is a damn shame. Like George Langdon at Colgate, he thought he could turn Holy Cross into a NESCAC school.

[superman7515]

Had Baltimore actually allowed that, then Williams' successor might have had more success blocking DC from getting the Expos (Nationals). Too many people in DC got sick of driving up to Baltimore to see a game (even at a park as beautiful as Camden Yards).


That was also the time period when the Baltimore baseball club was strictly marketed as the "Orioles". Was a concerted effort to leave the word "Baltimore" out of ads and uniforms.


Oddly enough, DC wasn't satisfied with that. :)

Yeah, he used to say something along the lines of people in Washington would drive to Baltimore to see the Orioles, but people in Baltimore wouldn't drive to Washington to see whatever the Orioles became, so they couldn't make it work or he would have moved the team in a heartbeat.

[Sader87]

Point being, EBW cared about HC football and where it stood regionally/nationally....we haven't had a prominent alumnus with that attitude/swag (towards HC athletics) since him....

[Go Green]

Yeah, he used to say something along the lines of people in Washington would drive to Baltimore to see the Orioles, but people in Baltimore wouldn't drive to Washington to see whatever the Orioles became, so they couldn't make it work or he would have moved the team in a heartbeat.

His successor used to say to oppose DC getting a team by saying that the "region can't support two teams."

Which was really his way of saying that "Baltimore can't support a team." :)