Playoff Expansion to 24 Teams

[lizrdgizrd]

The call has gone out to the FCS nation. Stand up and be counted. Do you think that the playoffs should be expanded to 24 teams?

[UAalum72]

An excellent phrasing of the choices to show your bias. Are you somebody's wife? - a simple yes or no would do.

[ASU_Chad]

Sure, let 'em play. I'm not scared.

[OL FU]

I agree with the phrasing issue. I would vote no but I don't agree with the explanation. More than 16 teams simply takes too many weeks to play

[lizrdgizrd]

An excellent phrasing of the choices to show your bias. Are you somebody's wife? - a simple yes or no would do.
Yes and no are too boring.

[OL FU]

Yes and no are too boring.


I voted no and simply no. :smiley_wi

Four weeks of play offs are enough. While the Ivy's like to used education for a reason not to participate which I think is bogus, I think education is a good reason to limit how long the season continues. :nod:

[bluehenbillk]

I voted no, 3 losses should put you on the bubble, I don't wanna see 7-4 teams every year.

[89Hen]

I doubt sentiment has changed since this was last done.

How many teams should be in the I-AA playoffs?
8 - 0.78%
16 - 71.09%
24 - 25.00%
32 - 3.13%

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5878

[UAalum72]

Yes and no are too boring.
OK then:

Yes - allow enough teams so that all conferences in good standing get an auto bid:thumbsup:

No - keep it at 16 so there are no more autobids no matter how long some conferences go without winning another playoff game: smh :

[lizrdgizrd]

OK then:

Yes - allow enough teams so that all conferences in good standing get an auto bid:thumbsup:

No - keep it at 16 so there are no more autobids no matter how long some conferences go without winning another playoff game: smh :
I was going to put several reasons for each but it was too long. :(

I want some excitement, but I'm too lazy to work it all out! xlolx

[JALMOND]

I put yes, but not because "too many champs will be left out". The expansions in numbers of the auto bid conferences will insure competitive teams not being included. This year, if the Great West and either the Pioneer or Northeast had an auto bid, Montana State and New Hampshire would have quite possibly been left home. Both teams won in the first round and therefore should have been (rightfully) included.

[UAalum72]

This year, if the Great West and either the Pioneer or Northeast had an auto bid, Montana State and New Hampshire would have quite possibly been left home. Both teams won in the first round and therefore should have been (rightfully) included.
If the GWC (still not eligible), Pioneer, or NEC had an autobid bid in a 16-team playoff, the OVC and/or MEAC would not have had one, and the at-large selection would probably have been unchanged, or there would not have been a second team from the OVC. The results would not have been worse for the autobid teams.

[GreenDay17]

I am an inclusionist, not an exclusionist.

Therefore, I vote Yes!!

[FargoBison]

I voted yes even though I don't necessarily believe that any teams that would have won are being left out. My push for expansion is more about making the FCS stronger by giving more schools a chance at getting into the playoffs. I think the playoffs help drive fan interest and drives schools to want to invest more in their programs. Here is my plan.....

1. Playoffs are expanded to 24

2. At the end of the season the top 12 conferences are given an auto-bid, SOS is used as to determine who the top 12 are.

3. The Top 8 teams are seeded and given byes

4. The Title game is played on January 1st, sure the game will go up against some of the big bowls but really I don't think it would hurt the game or the ratings. The FCS shouldn't be playing its title game on a Friday in the middle of December, I feel this way regardless of playoff expansion.

[BrevardMountaineer03]

I agree with the phrasing issue. I would vote no but I don't agree with the explanation. More than 16 teams simply takes too many weeks to play

If you are going to phrase, add more yes's and more no's. I voted yes, not because of too many champs being left out, but because I believe that there are good teams that don't make the playoffs that should have had a shot. Not necassarily potential champs, but teams that deserve a shot.

[Cocky]

Yes, another week of good football is always good. And I don't play anymore so the length of the season doesn't matter to me.

[jmuroller]

If the Northeast and Big South among others are to ever get an automatic, then the field needs to be bigger.

[NE MT GRIZZ]

This isn't like Little League where everyone has to play.
Keep the field at 16, that way only GREAT teams make the playoffs.

[MplsBison]

This isn't like Little League where everyone has to play.

This isn't like grade school where only the cool kids (Montana, Delaware) get to play.

[spoogemcgee18]

NO WAY. As a fan, 4 weeks of playoffs is already too nerve racking for a human to sustain.

[Col Hogan]

This isn't like grade school where only the cool kids (Montana, Delaware) get to play.


Hey Delaware, where were you this year? :confused:

[FlyYtown]

No. Like this year, it would add way to many mediocre teams un-deserving of the playoffs.

Keep it at 16 and expand to 12 games.

[89Hen]

This isn't like grade school where only the cool kids (Montana, Delaware) get to play.
Site a SINGLE instance when UM or UD has receive preferential treatment in selection. I TRIPLE dog dare you. You will absolutely LOSE this one.

BTW, I'm not talking about home games, I'm talking about inclusion.

[Eyes of Old Main]

Site a SINGLE instance when UM or UD has receive preferential treatment in selection.

BTW, I'm not talking about home games, I'm talking about inclusion.

Inclusion, not to my knowledge. Home games, maybe. UD was ranked 3rd going into the playoffs in 2003 and Wofford was 2nd. The Hens got the #2 seed and Wofford got the #3 making their semi-final game be played in Newark instead of Spartanburg. I know that is splitting hairs (because I don't know that location would have mattered in that game) and UD probably was a little higher in the GPI, but it's an example. Seeding it that way meant 23,000 tickets sold instead of 13,000.

I'm not trying to take anything away from UD who definately beat Wofford soundly and were unquestionably the best team that year, but don't think the NCAA committee didn't think about those extra 10,000 tickets.

[Eyes of Old Main]

As for playoff expansion, I am in favor of 24 teams. You should get a benefit from winning your conference.

Giving a bye to the 8 highest rated auto-bids (assuming some are added to accomodate new leagues, or if the SWAC and Ivy ever decide to step up to the plate) gives an advantage to those teams and eliminates the arguments about the last team in and the first team out because no one is going to argue about being excluded if they were the 25th best team.

Expansion would benefit emerging programs since it would be easier to get in and established programs with "reputation" would likely be against it since it would bring more competition to the table from teams normally excluded. I see it as something that would increase excitement and not decrease the quality of the product on the field which should only be seen as a positive.

[lizrdgizrd]

Giving a bye to the 8 highest rated auto-bids (assuming some are added to accomodate new leagues, or if the SWAC and Ivy ever decide to step up to the plate) gives an advantage to those teams and eliminates the arguments about the last team in and the first team out because no one is going to argue about being excluded if they were the 25th best team.
You and I both know that there will be teams on the bubble even in a 24 game playoff. Those teams that don't make it are going to complain every bit as much as any have with our current system. As long as there is one team left out with the same record as a team that made it there are going to be complaints.


Expansion would benefit emerging programs since it would be easier to get in and established programs with "reputation" would likely be against it since it would bring more competition to the table from teams normally excluded. I see it as something that would increase excitement and not decrease the quality of the product on the field which should only be seen as a positive.
If you're concerned about including new teams and improved teams why even have autobids at all? Why not let the records decide who gets included without the risk of a weaker team getting in because it won its conference?

[Eyes of Old Main]

You and I both know that there will be teams on the bubble even in a 24 game playoff. Those teams that don't make it are going to complain every bit as much as any have with our current system. As long as there is one team left out with the same record as a team that made it there are going to be complaints.

I'm not saying there would never be complaints. But at 24 teams, you'd be looking at arguments between 7-4 teams, not 8-3 teams. That would cut down on the damage playing a BCS team would cause. A lopsided BCS loss doesn't hurt if it's your only loss, but if you are 8-3 with two other FCS losses, it might keep you out. FCS teams shouldn't be punished for scheduling up.



If you're concerned about including new teams and improved teams why even have autobids at all? Why not let the records decide who gets included without the risk of a weaker team getting in because it won its conference?

If a weaker team gets in becauseit won its conference, so be it. The MEAC and OVC do not traditionally fair well in the playoffs, but they are good leagues and are big enough to earn the auto-bid. Are you saying they should lose their auto-bids becasue their champions typically are not competitive with champions from the SoCon, A-10, Big Sky and Gateway?

[GannonFan]

Inclusion, not to my knowledge. Home games, maybe. UD was ranked 3rd going into the playoffs in 2003 and Wofford was 2nd. The Hens got the #2 seed and Wofford got the #3 making their semi-final game be played in Newark instead of Spartanburg. I know that is splitting hairs (because I don't know that location would have mattered in that game) and UD probably was a little higher in the GPI, but it's an example. Seeding it that way meant 23,000 tickets sold instead of 13,000.

I'm not trying to take anything away from UD who definately beat Wofford soundly and were unquestionably the best team that year, but don't think the NCAA committee didn't think about those extra 10,000 tickets.

Well, you also have to consider that UD was higher ranked in the GPI than Wofford that year (although my feelings on the reliability of the GPI are well known), UD came out of a stronger conference that year (it was a markedly down year for the Southern with only 1 team making the playoffs) and UD beat a Navy team who beat Air Force who had decidedly routed Wofford earlier that year. I don't remember there being a lot of controversey over the seeding that year.

[GannonFan]

This isn't like grade school where only the cool kids (Montana, Delaware) get to play.

Man, are you sure you're not a new version of Umassfan? You're dedication to all things anti-UD is truly amazing. Did you miss the fact we've been out of the playoffs two years running? Have you still not given up trying to find the one instance where UD got included in the playoffs even though they shouldn't have? Delusion indeed. :cool:

[lizrdgizrd]

I'm not saying there would never be complaints. But at 24 teams, you'd be looking at arguments between 7-4 teams, not 8-3 teams. That would cut down on the damage playing a BCS team would cause. A lopsided BCS loss doesn't hurt if it's your only loss, but if you are 8-3 with two other FCS losses, it might keep you out. FCS teams shouldn't be punished for scheduling up.
We had arguments over 7-4 teams this year. What makes you think we wouldn't have to sometimes include 6-5 teams if we went to 24 teams just to fill the holes?


If a weaker team gets in becauseit won its conference, so be it. The MEAC and OVC do not traditionally fair well in the playoffs, but they are good leagues and are big enough to earn the auto-bid. Are you saying they should lose their auto-bids becasue their champions typically are not competitive with champions from the SoCon, A-10, Big Sky and Gateway?
I'm saying why have auto-bids at all? If your team isn't good enough to deserve to make the playoffs why should it take a spot from a team that does?

[Ivytalk]

I agree with the phrasing issue. I would vote no but I don't agree with the explanation. More than 16 teams simply takes too many weeks to play

Right on as usual, OL FU!:nod:

[89Hen]

Inclusion, not to my knowledge. Home games, maybe.
I don't think there's any maybe about it. Of course they get home games over other teams, but it's strictly by the I-AA playoff guidelines in which they receive them. So it would be hard to say it was preferential treatment.

BTW, Wofford was #2 in both polls but #11 in the GPI (highest computer had them #12). As GF said, I don't think there were many people outside of Spartanburg that were surprised by the seeds that year (except for those in Carbondale that felt they were screwed).

[eaglesrthe1]

I don't think there's any maybe about it. Of course they get home games over other teams, but it's strictly by the I-AA playoff guidelines in which they receive them. So it would be hard to say it was preferential treatment.
BTW, Wofford was #2 in both polls but #11 in the GPI (highest computer had them #12). As GF said, I don't think there were many people outside of Spartanburg that were surprised by the seeds that year (except for those in Carbondale that felt they were screwed).


Of course, that's because the playoff guidelines are set up so that they can receive the preferential treatment. It is the out. "Well that's the way the guidlines are set up, so what can we do?" Said the people who set up the guidelines.

Now don't get me wrong, it's not because it's UD or UM, it's because of $$$. If it were VMI and Sav St. that had the attendance, then it would be them that had the home games.

[bluehenbillk]

I don't think there's any maybe about it. Of course they get home games over other teams, but it's strictly by the I-AA playoff guidelines in which they receive them. So it would be hard to say it was preferential treatment.

BTW, Wofford was #2 in both polls but #11 in the GPI (highest computer had them #12). As GF said, I don't think there were many people outside of Spartanburg that were surprised by the seeds that year (except for those in Carbondale that felt they were screwed).

Cmon 89 & GF did you guys really just use the GPI in a playoff debate? Shame on you both. GF laid it out right, why that Wofford game was in Newark. Wofford was a good team & had the best defense I remember seeing UD play against that year, but Wofford had zero chance running option at Delaware. Navy didn't have a lot of success running it so you knew Wofford was going to get stuffed - which they did.

[MplsBison]

Site a SINGLE instance when UM or UD has receive preferential treatment in selection. I TRIPLE dog dare you. You will absolutely LOSE this one.

BTW, I'm not talking about home games, I'm talking about inclusion.

I'm talking about Montana and Delaware's ability to keep other teams out.

Not get themselves included.

[lizrdgizrd]

I'm talking about Montana and Delaware's ability to keep other teams out.

Not get themselves included.
And how do they manage to exclude other teams?

[bluehenbillk]

Normally by winning, but UD has had a problem with that the past 2 years.

[89Hen]

I'm talking about Montana and Delaware's ability to keep other teams out.

Not get themselves included.
:confused: Please continue. :eyebrow:

[AZGrizFan]

I'm talking about Montana and Delaware's ability to keep other teams out.

Not get themselves included.

xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[MplsBison]

And how do they manage to exclude other teams?

Keeping the playoffs from expanding.

[ATrain]

Keeping the playoffs from expanding.

Oh yes, a giant conspiracy involving two schools-one from the MidAtlantic, one from the Northwest that never meet in the regular season except maybe once a decade-controlling the size of the playoffs all by themselves xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx :nod: :nod: :nod: xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Eyes of Old Main]

We had arguments over 7-4 teams this year. What makes you think we wouldn't have to sometimes include 6-5 teams if we went to 24 teams just to fill the holes?

I think there would always be enough 7-4's out there to keep 6-5's out of the picture. But, I would support adding extra byes so 6-5's could not get bids, but that would likely make it too hard. I just feel as though since FCS will not be getting a 12th game, expanding the playoffs would be a reward that would allow the better teams to play at least one extra game.


I'm saying why have auto-bids at all? If your team isn't good enough to deserve to make the playoffs why should it take a spot from a team that does?

OK, I misunderstood. Take out the auto-bids. That's fine if your team is in the SoCon, A-10, Gateway or Big Sky, but how would you address complaints when an 8-3 or 7-4 SoCon team got in over a 10-1 or 9-2 conference champ from the MEAC, OVC, etc.? True, they might not be as good, but winning a conference should gain you the right to play.

Think of the NCAA basketball tournament. Could many mid or low major confernece champs really have a chance in the first round? Probably not, but tell that to George Mason.

[foghorn]

Why not just change our name to FBS-AA, and have all teams with a 6-5 record or better, play in a 'everybody feel good about themselves' bowl game? No more expansion. Sixteen teams works out perfectly. :thumbsup:

[Eyes of Old Main]

Wofford was a good team & had the best defense I remember seeing UD play against that year, but Wofford had zero chance running option at Delaware. Navy didn't have a lot of success running it so you knew Wofford was going to get stuffed - which they did.

Just to clear up, I wasn't disputing the result on the field. Delaware handled Wofford with relative ease, moreso as the game went on. And, that might not have been the best example, but it was the best I could think of at the time.

[DetroitFlyer]

Of course the fans of teams that routinely make the playoffs, or at least have conference mates that make the playoffs, are against expansion. In my case, my team, Dayton, of the PFL, has been playing FCS ball for 14 YEARS now, and has never been invited to the playoffs. We have won the PFL several times and still no invite. We finished the 1996 season 11-0and no invite.... In fact, no team from the PFL has ever been invited to the playoffs in the league's entire history of 14 seasons. Now explain to me how this is good for the PFL and FCS. Why in the world would any serious fan of the PFL be enamored with the current playoff system? You can certainly spout all your nonsense about how PFL teams have never been worthy, ( 14 seasons ), but it just does not hold up.... From where I sit, this is nothing more than simple discrimination. Protect the old guard, ( and yes Coastal Carolina is a new member of the old guard ), and hang the rest of us out to dry. At the end of the day, it is all about money. Accept it or not, but the facts of who is allowed to participate in the playoffs says it all. There are already movements underway to more strictly define the money aspects of FCS football, being lead by who? You guessed it, the old guard.... Rather than focusing so strongly on protecting the old guard, you should all step back and really think about what is right for FCS football. Let me give you a hint: INCLUSION not DISCRIMINATION! Spend your efforts pulling in the Ivy League, the SWAC, the PFL, NEC, MAAC and not working so hard to protect the interests of the old guard only. Seems clear as day to me, too bad the rest of you just cannot see it!

[OL FU]

Of course the fans of teams that routinely make the playoffs, or at least have conference mates that make the playoffs, are against expansion. In my case, my team, Dayton, of the PFL, has been playing FCS ball for 14 YEARS now, and has never been invited to the playoffs. We have won the PFL several times and still no invite. We finished the 1996 season 11-0and no invite.... In fact, no team from the PFL has ever been invited to the playoffs in the league's entire history of 14 seasons. Now explain to me how this is good for the PFL and FCS. Why in the world would any serious fan of the PFL be enamored with the current playoff system? You can certainly spout all your nonsense about how PFL teams have never been worthy, ( 14 seasons ), but it just does not hold up.... From where I sit, this is nothing more than simple discrimination. Protect the old guard, ( and yes Coastal Carolina is a new member of the old guard ), and hang the rest of us out to dry. At the end of the day, it is all about money. Accept it or not, but the facts of who is allowed to participate in the playoffs says it all. There are already movements underway to more strictly define the money aspects of FCS football, being lead by who? You guessed it, the old guard.... Rather than focusing so strongly on protecting the old guard, you should all step back and really think about what is right for FCS football. Let me give you a hint: INCLUSION not DISCRIMINATION! Spend your efforts pulling in the Ivy League, the SWAC, the PFL, NEC, MAAC and not working so hard to protect the interests of the old guard only. Seems clear as day to me, too bad the rest of you just cannot see it!

Sometimes it is not so clear. I am against expansion. If the NCAA changed the rules to provide auto bids to the PFL, NEC and MAAC thus reducing the at-larges to five thus reducing Furman's chance at participating in the play-offs, I would still be against expansion. The season starts with 12 weeks. Sixteen teams have a possibility of playing four more. The season does not need to be longer.

I understand your frustration, but my opinion has little to do with Furman's chances to get in the playoffs. Believe it or not.

[lizrdgizrd]

Of course the fans of teams that routinely make the playoffs, or at least have conference mates that make the playoffs, are against expansion. In my case, my team, Dayton, of the PFL, has been playing FCS ball for 14 YEARS now, and has never been invited to the playoffs. We have won the PFL several times and still no invite. We finished the 1996 season 11-0and no invite.... In fact, no team from the PFL has ever been invited to the playoffs in the league's entire history of 14 seasons. Now explain to me how this is good for the PFL and FCS. Why in the world would any serious fan of the PFL be enamored with the current playoff system? You can certainly spout all your nonsense about how PFL teams have never been worthy, ( 14 seasons ), but it just does not hold up.... From where I sit, this is nothing more than simple discrimination. Protect the old guard, ( and yes Coastal Carolina is a new member of the old guard ), and hang the rest of us out to dry. At the end of the day, it is all about money. Accept it or not, but the facts of who is allowed to participate in the playoffs says it all. There are already movements underway to more strictly define the money aspects of FCS football, being lead by who? You guessed it, the old guard.... Rather than focusing so strongly on protecting the old guard, you should all step back and really think about what is right for FCS football. Let me give you a hint: INCLUSION not DISCRIMINATION! Spend your efforts pulling in the Ivy League, the SWAC, the PFL, NEC, MAAC and not working so hard to protect the interests of the old guard only. Seems clear as day to me, too bad the rest of you just cannot see it!
1. The Ivy & SWAC have chosen to not participate in the playoffs.
2. Coastal Carolina is a 4 year old team who played and beat good quality opponents. That is how they got in the playoffs. That is how PFL, NEC, & MAAC teams can make the playoffs. The simple fact is they need to schedule better OOC teams and/or beat the teams they schedule.

[GoldandBlack]

Wofford probably has as much to gain by an expansion to 24 teams as anyone else I know of, given recent history, but I vote "no", for two reasons:

1. The current system works. There are complaints, sure, but with a 24-team
system, there will be the more complaints (more teams with 6-5 and 7-4
records), then somebody will start a movement to go to a 32-team system
to avoid byes.

2. I don't trust the NCAA to change a system that works - look at the FBS.
I'm sure someone can argue that the current system is better than the
old system, but I don't buy it.

[89Hen]

Keeping the playoffs from expanding.
Again, continue. How does Montana and Delaware keep the playoffs from expanding? Because of a few fans on a fan message board? xlolx

[89Hen]

Of course the fans of teams that routinely make the playoffs, or at least have conference mates that make the playoffs, are against expansion.
xidiotx Expansion would put in even MORE teams from these conferences. So much for that theory. xlolx

[henfan]

xidiotx Expansion would put in even MORE teams from these conferences. So much for that theory. xlolx

Yup. Playoff expansion still isn't likely to help teams with weak SOS's, unless the at-large eligibility criteria is also re-vamped. :read:

Instead of modifying an entire playoff system, eligibility rules, etc. to suit the needs of a small minority, wouldn't it make more sense- and be more within the power of particular schools- to advocate stronger regular season schedules from their ADs? Seems like an easier, more immediate fix to me.

[GannonFan]

Of course the fans of teams that routinely make the playoffs, or at least have conference mates that make the playoffs, are against expansion. In my case, my team, Dayton, of the PFL, has been playing FCS ball for 14 YEARS now, and has never been invited to the playoffs. We have won the PFL several times and still no invite. We finished the 1996 season 11-0and no invite.... In fact, no team from the PFL has ever been invited to the playoffs in the league's entire history of 14 seasons. Now explain to me how this is good for the PFL and FCS. Why in the world would any serious fan of the PFL be enamored with the current playoff system? You can certainly spout all your nonsense about how PFL teams have never been worthy, ( 14 seasons ), but it just does not hold up.... From where I sit, this is nothing more than simple discrimination. Protect the old guard, ( and yes Coastal Carolina is a new member of the old guard ), and hang the rest of us out to dry. At the end of the day, it is all about money. Accept it or not, but the facts of who is allowed to participate in the playoffs says it all. There are already movements underway to more strictly define the money aspects of FCS football, being lead by who? You guessed it, the old guard.... Rather than focusing so strongly on protecting the old guard, you should all step back and really think about what is right for FCS football. Let me give you a hint: INCLUSION not DISCRIMINATION! Spend your efforts pulling in the Ivy League, the SWAC, the PFL, NEC, MAAC and not working so hard to protect the interests of the old guard only. Seems clear as day to me, too bad the rest of you just cannot see it!


DF, as long as you keep ignoring the bold in your endless rant against the machine while not providing a single instance to refute the fact that in 14 seasons no PFL team has been worthy you'll continue to be simply howling against the wind. Just being argumentative does not represent a valid argument. And your insinuation that a 4 year startup program like Coastal Carolina is now part of the "Old Guard" because they cowtowed to the rest of IAA (FCS) and played a valid schedule is easily past the boundary into simply hysterical. Hey, keep your head in the sand and posting away - I like laughing during the day. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[NE MT GRIZZ]

If Montana had as much pull as MplsBison claims we would probably have more than 2 national titles.

[UAalum72]

2. Coastal Carolina is a 4 year old team who played and beat good quality opponents. That is how they got in the playoffs. That is how PFL, NEC, & MAAC teams can make the playoffs. The simple fact is they need to schedule better OOC teams and/or beat the teams they schedule.
Bull****. The way to get an at-large is to be in an autobid conference whose current teams haven't won a playoff game in ten years, lose to a couple of I-As by 30 or more, and beat a 1-10 Indiana State. As long as a team like that gets into the playoffs, don't tell me about the NEC's OOC record. Don't tell me they have to go undefeated in conference, because that's not required of anyone else. Keep the MAAC out of this because they don't have enough teams to be eligible.

[89Hen]

Final regular season rankings...
1. Great West Football Conference (22.18)
2. Atlantic 10 Conference (24.39)
3. Gateway Football Conference (29.97)
4. Big Sky Conference (35.70)
5. Southern Conference (36.43)
6. Ivy League (41.63)
7. Big South Conference (46.71)
8. Ohio Valley Conference (50.21)
9. Southland Conference (51.00)
10. Patriot League (57.00)
11. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (58.20)
12. Southwestern Athletic Conference (63.74)
13. Northeast Conference (65.19)
14. Independents (66.89)
15. Pioneer Football League (69.60)
16. Metro-Atlantic Athletic Conference (83.73)

[GannonFan]

Bull****. The way to get an at-large is to be in an autobid conference whose current teams haven't won a playoff game in ten years, lose to a couple of I-As by 30 or more, and beat a 1-10 Indiana State. As long as a team like that gets into the playoffs, don't tell me about the NEC's OOC record. Don't tell me they have to go undefeated in conference, because that's not required of anyone else. Keep the MAAC out of this because they don't have enough teams to be eligible.

Agree with 89 here, except for his unsettling use of the GPI - if you're so high on the quality of football played by the lower echelon of the NEC, why then are the Albany's, Stony Brooks's, Monmouth's, and CCSU's of the conference clammoring over each other to get out of the conference and away from those other teams? If you value their competitiveness so much that you can use it as a point of argument here, it seems kinda odd that you then turn around and as a program want to get as much distance away from them as you can. And yeah, we'll keep the MAAC out of it as long as those bottom teams in the NEC stop losing to the MAAC. :nod:

[UAalum72]

Final regular season rankings...

What's your point? This thread's about expanding the playoffs

Eligible conferences who haven't opted out:

1. Atlantic 10 Conference (24.39)
2. Gateway Football Conference (29.97)
3. Big Sky Conference (35.70)
4. Southern Conference (36.43)
5. Ohio Valley Conference (50.21)
6. Southland Conference (51.00)
7. Patriot League (57.00)
8. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (58.20)
9. Northeast Conference (65.19)
10. Pioneer Football League (69.60)

[UAalum72]

Agree with 89 here, except for his unsettling use of the GPI - if you're so high on the quality of football played by the lower echelon of the NEC, why then are the Albany's, Stony Brooks's, Monmouth's, and CCSU's of the conference clammoring over each other to get out of the conference and away from those other teams?
Maybe because the conference doesn't have an autobid? And because TOG isn't likely to give it one unless the playoffs are expanded? Who's talking about the lower echelon - other conferences don't lose autobids because they've got NC A&T or Murray State.

[GannonFan]

Maybe because the conference doesn't have an autobid? And because TOG isn't likely to give it one unless the playoffs are expanded? Who's talking about the lower echelon - other conferences don't lose autobids because they've got NC A&T or Murray State.

No, but they also don't try to leave the conference because of them and they are limited in terms of how many at larges they could get because of them. You won't see the OVC or the MEAC playing at the level they are playing now and get the same kind of at larges that the CAA, Gateway, or Southern get. They just don't, and history holds that up.

Big South doesn't get an auto bid yet they can make the playoffs - same with the Great West - so how does not having an autobid stop the NEC from making the playoffs?

[lizrdgizrd]

Bull****. The way to get an at-large is to be in an autobid conference whose current teams haven't won a playoff game in ten years, lose to a couple of I-As by 30 or more, and beat a 1-10 Indiana State. As long as a team like that gets into the playoffs, don't tell me about the NEC's OOC record. Don't tell me they have to go undefeated in conference, because that's not required of anyone else. Keep the MAAC out of this because they don't have enough teams to be eligible.
I don't think anyone wants to have to take 7-4 teams into the playoffs. E. Illinois played some tough teams. You tell me the NEC played tougher schedules with a better record.

And you're right the MAAC needs more teams.

[GannonFan]

And you're right the MAAC needs more teams.

Well, the MAAC needs that and maybe stop scheduling so many and losing to so many DIII teams. :nod:

[89Hen]

What's your point? This thread's about expanding the playoffs
And your post was about the OVC vs NEC/PFL. FWIW, I don't think EIU was any good anyway and I would have had no problem with them not getting a bid. There was a lot of parity in I-AA this year.

[lizrdgizrd]

Well, the MAAC needs that and maybe stop scheduling so many and losing to so many DIII teams. :nod:
But if they had more teams they could complain about The Old Guard keeping them out of the playoffs too!

[89Hen]

Maybe because the conference doesn't have an autobid? And because TOG isn't likely to give it one unless the playoffs are expanded?
OR until the NEC actually ranks higher than one of the eight that do receive one. :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2: Blame others. That's been a common theme for NEC and PFL fans.

[Sir William]

Guys, let's cut to the chase on this thread. FCS is not going to expand to 24 teams. 16 has worked right. It's been an interesting thread, but let's accept reality, whether we like it or not, and move on.

No offense, but leagues like the Pioneer will virtually never make the playoffs (maybe once every thirty years...maybe!), just like no MAC team will ever be in the BCS championship.

I know, I know...what about Boise State? Boise State is a great football program that has moved up the right way. But even with its undefeated and spectacular season, no national championship opportunity. Did they deserve a shot? Maybe, maybe not. The reality is that they were not going to get a shot, b/c they don't play a Big Ten/SEC/Big 12/etc schedule wek in and week out.

San Diego, Albany, CCSU, etc., we in FCS love ya, but reality is reality. Keep playing good football, and seek affiliation with a top contending conference.

[GannonFan]

San Diego, Albany, CCSU, etc., we in FCS love ya, but reality is reality. Keep playing good football, and seek affiliation with a top contending conference.

Come on, just patently untrue - if Albany goes 9-2 with the schedule they had this year they would've been in. Coastal isn't in a top contending conference and they did it. Just not true.

[UAalum72]

San Diego, Albany, CCSU, etc., we in FCS love ya, but reality is reality. Keep playing good football, and seek affiliation with a top contending conference.
Oh yeah? How many teams will the CAA expand to? Should the Great West and Big South break up and all their teams apply to autobid conferences? Maybe NDSU can join the Southland. I hope the SWAC asks back in - a lot of people seem ready to give THEM their bid back.


OR until the NEC actually ranks higher than one of the eight that do receive one.
This is a playoff EXPANSION thread. If the playoffs don't expand, then talk about being one of the top 8.

[lizrdgizrd]

Oh yeah? How many teams will the CAA expand to? Should the Great West and Big South break up and all their teams apply to autobid conferences? Maybe NDSU can join the Southland. I hope the SWAC asks back in - a lot of people seem ready to give THEM their bid back.


This is a playoff EXPANSION thread. If the playoffs don't expand, then talk about being one of the top 8.
If the playoffs expanded a 9-2 NEC team might have a shot over a 6-5 Gateway or 6-5 SoCon team. Expanding the playoffs to include poorer competition isn't the answer.

[GannonFan]

Oh yeah? How many teams will the CAA expand to? Should the Great West and Big South break up and all their teams apply to autobid conferences? Maybe NDSU can join the Southland. I hope the

Uh, not sure the Big South and the Great West have to break up - they're already making the playoffs despite the huge disadvantage you seem to think not having an autobid represents. Now, how are they doing the "impossible" and making the playoffs despite not being from an autobid conference - gee, what could it be???? :rotateh:

[Sir William]

Oh yeah? How many teams will the CAA expand to? Should the Great West and Big South break up and all their teams apply to autobid conferences?

No...but there is a world of difference week in and week out between the Great West/Big South and the PFL/NEC. No offense, again...just dealing with reality.

Look, teams like Albany and Monmouth are fine and good. But the NEC is not the Gateway, or even close to it. As as the Big South goes, they have made incredible strides, but consider how much it has taken one team (Coastal) to get a bid.

I think Albany should have a shot at the playoffs...I'm just saying it's not likely to happen while they are in the NEC...could happen, but not likely.

[89Hen]

This is a playoff EXPANSION thread. If the playoffs don't expand, then talk about being one of the top 8.
:confused: Weren't you the one who was talking about OVC at-larges? What does that have to do with expansion? If the playoffs expand, MORE un-deserving teams will get in, not less. :rotateh:

[UNH 40]

It will never happen. As it is with sixteen teams many school officials, including some coaches dislike the playoff system with 16 teams because it interferes with exams and exam prep. It also puts many teams behind the eightball in recruiting. Also factor in that adding eight more teams would then put the championship game on or near christmas. If they were to make a change (which I don't forsee happening it would probably be more likely that it would be reduced to 8 teams):twocents:

[andy7171]

If the playoffs expanded a 9-2 NEC team might have a shot over a 6-5 Gateway or 6-5 SoCon team. Expanding the playoffs to include poorer competition isn't the answer.
This is a good point for all the NEC and PFL supporters to note. Expanding the play-offs doesn't ensure those smaller conferences get representation. What it would do is put in 7-4, 6-5 teams from the A-10, SoCon, GFC. with better ratings and SOS. I don't want to see that. As a fan of one of those 7-4 A-10 schools the last thing I want to see is my team travel and get embarrased nationally, just so I can say we made the play-offs. If Towson ever makes the play-offs, I want it to be because we earned it.

Look at how people react in the NCAA basketball tournament. The ACC, PAC-10 SEC and Big Ten/Twelve all send 5-7 teams each year. While the smaller conferences send one maybe two. Sure a NEC or PFl team might win an autobid in the suggested expanded play-offs, but they'd get served up to AppState, Montana or UMass in the first round.

Keep the playoffs the way they are and earn your way in.

[lizrdgizrd]

This is a good point for all the NEC and PFL supporters to note. Expanding the play-offs doesn't ensure those smaller conferences get representation. What it would do is put in 7-4, 6-5 teams from the A-10, SoCon, GFC. with better ratings and SOS. I don't want to see that. As a fan of one of those 7-4 A-10 schools the last thing I want to see is my team travel and get embarrased nationally, just so I can say we made the play-offs. If Towson ever makes the play-offs, I want it to be because we earned it.

Look at how people react in the NCAA basketball tournament. The ACC, PAC-10 SEC and Big Ten/Twelve all send 5-7 teams each year. While the smaller conferences send one maybe two. Sure a NEC or PFl team might win an autobid in the suggested expanded play-offs, but they'd get served up to AppState, Montana or UMass in the first round.

Keep the playoffs the way they are and earn your way in.
And if you're really concerned over autobids, why not just advocate getting rid of them? Then every conference is on a level playing field.

[jmuroller]

Expand the playoffs to 24, seed the top 8 and give them bys in the 1st round. Start the playoffs a week earlier. After the semi-finals move the Nat'l Championship game to somewhere between xmas and New Years. Have it during the day so it wont' compete with one of the nightly Bowl Games. That way fans can come because they will be on vacation and have more time to make plans since they have longer between games to prepare. Thats what I would do.

I don't understand why everyone is griping that 24 teams will be to much. The more the merrier if you ask me. Give as many student-athletes the opportunity to play more games. They only get 4 years to play football so why not give more players the chance. As a huge college football fan I want to see as many games as I can! Alsok you give the mid-major conferences an auto bid. They deserve atleast an opportunity to prove themselves. The Patriot didn't become what it is today untill they got their auto. They would still be some low class/talent league without that.

[MplsBison]

How does Montana and Delaware keep the playoffs from expanding?

They rally the troops of the currently established FCS teams with fear mongering that expansion will make it harder for them.


I'm not about to suggest that the Big South, Great West, NEC, and PFL deserve auto bids. They don't.


But there should be 16 at larges to go with the 8 autobids. Obviously that requires the end of the 50% autobid rule.

[89Hen]

As a fan of one of those 7-4 A-10 schools the last thing I want to see is my team travel and get embarrased nationally, just so I can say we made the play-offs. If Towson ever makes the play-offs, I want it to be because we earned it.

But, but, but... you're in an Old Guard conference. You just don't want expansion to keep the little guy out. Quit it. You're blowing my theory of the "Old Guard". :mad:
xlolx

[lizrdgizrd]

They rally the troops of the currently established FCS teams with fear mongering that expansion will make it harder for them.
It's a conspiracy!!!!!!
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[89Hen]

They rally the troops of the currently established FCS teams with fear mongering that expansion will make it harder for them.
xlolx Phew, you had me going Mpls. I thought you were serious about this for a minute. :thumbsup:

[MplsBison]

How does Montana and Delaware keep the playoffs from expanding?

They rally the troops of the currently established FCS teams with fear mongering that expansion will make it harder for them.


I'm not about to suggest that the Big South, Great West, NEC, and PFL deserve auto bids. They don't.


But there should be 16 at larges to go with the 8 autobids. Obviously that requires the end of the 50% autobid rule.

[lizrdgizrd]

They rally the troops of the currently established FCS teams with fear mongering that expansion will make it harder for them.


I'm not about to suggest that the Big South, Great West, NEC, and PFL deserve auto bids. They don't.


But there should be 16 at larges to go with the 8 autobids. Obviously that requires the end of the 50% autobid rule.
Why not 0 autobids and 16 at larges? Why do you need to expand the number of teams at all?

[MplsBison]

Because there are 24 deserving teams.

And there's no way the autobids are going away. So this would be the most plausible scenario.

You'd have the 16 at larges in 8 play in games to play the 8 autobids who get the byes.

[89Hen]

Because there are 24 deserving teams.
:confused: :confused: :confused: There weren't even 16 this year.

[lizrdgizrd]

Because there are 24 deserving teams.

And there's no way the autobids are going away. So this would be the most plausible scenario.

You'd have the 16 at larges in 8 play in games to play the 8 autobids who get the byes.
So you're saying that consistently having 7-4 or 6-5 teams is going to improve the playoffs? Because if you move to 24 teams that's what's going to happen. You might get a PFL or NEC team in occasionally. How does adding cannon fodder improve the playoffs?

[MplsBison]

There weren't even 16 this year.

There have been other years.

[MplsBison]

Because if you move to 24 teams that's what's going to happen.

Speculation.


And there is such a thing as a deserving 7-4 team. Portland State was good enough last year.


6-5 is impossible because you need 7 DI wins to make it. The 7 win rule would not change.

[lizrdgizrd]

There have been other years.
Were there 8 deserving teams each of those years?

[GoldandBlack]

More numbers in the playoffs = dilution of talent = poorer quality in early playoff games.

We get little enough national recognition now from ESPN, etc. Why dilute a product that's already under-recognized?

Another issue - byes give the higher-ranked teams an extra week to rest, heal and prepare, taking everyone off an equal footing going in.

[MplsBison]

Were there 8 deserving teams each of those years?

Who can say objectively?

You gotta play it on the field to know for sure.

[MplsBison]

More numbers in the playoffs = dilution of talent =


More football talent in the country = more talented players at more schools = more teams in the country should get to showcase their talent in the playoffs.

[89Hen]

There have been other years.
Don't let the arguement between #8 at large and the first team left out confuse you. That doesn't mean the 9th team was deserving of having a spot created for them. :nono:

[GoldandBlack]

More football talent in the country = more talented players at more schools = more teams in the country should get to showcase their talent in the playoffs.

In that case, why not go to 32 teams, and just forget the byes? That gives even MORE talent a chance to prove it on the field.

Where does it stop?

[MplsBison]

In that case, why not go to 32 teams, and just forget the byes? That gives even MORE talent a chance to prove it on the field.

Where does it stop?

16 used to be good enough because only the top 16 teams had the talent.


Now 24 teams have enough talent to win a playoff game.


It stops at 24, for now.


Perhaps one day 32 teams will have the talent, but not now.

[MplsBison]

Don't let the arguement between #8 at large and the first team left out confuse you. That doesn't mean the 9th team was deserving of having a spot created for them.

The first 8 teams left out are good enough to win a playoff game.

[andy7171]

Because there are 24 deserving teams.

And there's no way the autobids are going away. So this would be the most plausible scenario.

You'd have the 16 at larges in 8 play in games to play the 8 autobids who get the byes.
Week 11, 7-3 Towson played 8-2 JMU in a virtual play in game for the play-offs. Had Towson won they were in, JMU was probably already in, even with a loss. If the play-offs had been 24 teams, Towson at 4-4 in the A-10 probably would have made it in at 7-4.
Trust me, they would not have deserved it.

[GoldandBlack]

Now 24 teams have enough talent to win a playoff game.


It stops at 24, for now.


Perhaps one day 32 teams will have the talent, but not now.

Ah, but the question is, who gets to make the decision how many teams have enough talent to be in the playoffs - the NCAA?

Do they really know??:confused:

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, my friend.

[MplsBison]

Ah, but the question is, who gets to make the decision how many teams have enough talent to be in the playoffs - the NCAA?

Do they really know??:confused:

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, my friend.

The only way to know is to play the game.

[MplsBison]

Week 11, 7-3 Towson played 8-2 JMU in a virtual play in game for the play-offs. Had Towson won they were in, JMU was probably already in, even with a loss. If the play-offs had been 24 teams, Towson at 4-4 in the A-10 probably would have made it in at 7-4.
Trust me, they would not have deserved it.

Maybe they would've made it in. Maybe not.

[GoldandBlack]

And to be allowed to do it, which ain't likely with the powers-that-are.

[89Hen]

16 used to be good enough because only the top 16 teams had the talent.


Now 24 teams have enough talent to win a playoff game.
Really? The MEAC hasn't won a playoff game since 1999 and the teams in the OVC hasn't won one since 1996 and they are still rated higher than the NEC and PFL and you want MORE teams in. xlolx

[DetroitFlyer]

By my count, the Ivy, PFL, NEC, MAAC, and SWAC add up to 38 teams. That is 38 teams out of 122, almost 1/3 of the entire division that do not participate in the playoffs in any fashion for various reasons.... Now explain to me again how having almost 1/3 of the entire division not participating in the playoffs in any fashion is good for FCS football and helps to solidify the FCS reputation in the world of college football? Please do not start with the nonsense that all of these conferences are technically eligible, choose not to participate, etc. The facts are the facts and right now, 1/3 of the division does not participate. If this is not a "broken" system, than I do not know what is.... And why does the old guard not take away the autobid of the MEAC and OVC and let some other deserving conference have a crack? Yeah, you guessed it, the old guard is protecting the money.... Expand the playoffs so that every conference champion that meets the requirements receives a bid, and work to get the SWAC and Ivy League to participate.

[andy7171]

Maybe they would've made it in. Maybe not.
Right.
But the point is, they wouldn't have deserved it. Maine finished at 6-5, they could have won a first round game. Do you want a 6-5 team coming in and doing damage? How about Villanova, they were 5-3 in the A-10, they beat JMU! I'm only mentioning A-10 teams because, in a 24 team format, the 12 team conference, ARGUEABLEY the best top to bottom, would send at least 4 teams. The same can be said for UNI in the GFC, or the log jam of 6-5 teams in the OVC. Del State is as good as in at 8-3, what about FAMU and SCSU in the MEAC?

Don't dillute the best of the best, just to squeak a handful of bubble teams in. Thats silly.

[89Hen]

Please do not start with the nonsense that the all of these conferences are technically eligible, choose not to participate, etc. The facts are the facts and right now, 1/3 of the division does not participate. If this is not a "broken" system, than I do not know what is....
:confused: Why do you like some facts but not others? :nonono2: :nono:

[lizrdgizrd]

By my count, the Ivy, PFL, NEC, MAAC, and SWAC add up to 38 teams. That is 38 teams out of 122, almost 1/3 of the entire division that do not participate in the playoffs in any fashion for various reasons.... Now explain to me again how having almost 1/3 of the entire division not participating in the playoffs in any fashion is good for FCS football and helps to solidify the FCS reputation in the world of college football? Please do not start with the nonsense that the all of these conferences are technically eligible, choose not to participate, etc. The facts are the facts and right now, 1/3 of the division does not participate. If this is not a "broken" system, than I do not know what is....
Well why don't you "fix" this system by convincing the Ivy & SWAC to participate and add a team or two to the MAAC. The fact is that 13% of the FCS gets to participate in the playoffs. Stop whining, call your AD and have him schedule better teams. If you win you'll make it. CCU should be your example.

[lizrdgizrd]

:confused: Why do you like some facts but not others? :nonono2: :nono:
Because some facts are inconvenient to his whining. xlolx xlolx

[89Hen]

Here are some FACTS (just thought DF could use a refresher course):

- There are 16 teams in the I-AA playoffs (8 automatic and 8 at-large).

- The 8 automatic conferences are chosen each year from a list of those conferences that submit for an automatic.

- Only 9 different conferences have submitted for an automatic bid since the SWAC left the playoffs.

- The Ivy has never submitted a bid for an automatic.

- The SWAC has not submitted a bid for an automatic in over 10 years.

- The NEC and PFL have been rated lower than the 8 automatic conferences since 2000 (the last rankings I can find, but I assume it would be the case much further back).

- The last OVC win in the playoffs was 1996.

- The last MEAC win in the playoffs was 1999.

- The SWAC is 0-19 in the playoffs all-time.

- Since 2000 Cal Poly, Coastal Carolina, FAU and Hofstra were all selected as at-large teams despite not playing in an automatic bid conference.

- Coastal Carolina was selected in their fourth year of existance and FAU in their third.

Old Guard my ass.

[Sir William]

Hey, why not 24 teams? Why not 32 teams? Why not 64 teams?

Here's a thought...just forget the regular season and start the playoffs in September with ALL the teams.

This whole discussion has become ridiculous. 16 teams, period! It's the way it should be. Wanna run with the big dogs in the playoffs? Then start running week in and week out with the big dogs during the regular season. Go to Georgia Southern and win; then go the next week to Boone and win; then come to Furman the week after that and win. Or go to Montana and win, followed by a win at Bozeman, and then Portland State. Or pick the Gateway or A-10/CAA. Until you do, zip it. Beating GSU during an off year, followed up by wins at St. Francis, Robert Morris, and Maine Maritime (or whoever) ain't getting it.

[MplsBison]

Really? The MEAC hasn't won a playoff game since 1999 and the teams in the OVC hasn't won one since 1996 and they are still rated higher than the NEC and PFL and you want MORE teams in.

I never said that I wanted more MEAC, OVC, NEC, or PFL teams in.

[MplsBison]

the point is, they wouldn't have deserved it.

Who can objectively say that?

I think the seniors of the Towson team would disagree.



Maine finished at 6-5, they could have won a first round game. Do you want a 6-5 team coming in and doing damage? How about Villanova, they were 5-3 in the A-10, they beat JMU! I'm only mentioning A-10 teams because, in a 24 team format, the 12 team conference, ARGUEABLEY the best top to bottom, would send at least 4 teams. The same can be said for UNI in the GFC, or the log jam of 6-5 teams in the OVC.

The 7 DI win rule would still be in effect.

A team with less than 7 DI wins would not be allowed in the playoffs.



Del State is as good as in at 8-3, what about FAMU and SCSU in the MEAC?

Maybe they would get in, maybe they wouldn't.


Don't dillute the best of the best, just to squeak a handful of bubble teams in.


As I proposed, the 16 at large teams would be playing each other in the first round in 8 play in games. The 8 autobids would be resting the first week.


What do "the best of the best" have to lose in that situation? As far as they're concerned, it's still a 16 team play off. They'd only have to beat 4 teams to win the NC.

[89Hen]

I never said that I wanted more MEAC, OVC, NEC, or PFL teams in.
You said there were 24 teams that could win, yet I've just shown you not even all 16 can now.

[MplsBison]

Hey, why not 24 teams? Why not 32 teams? Why not 64 teams?

Here's a thought...just forget the regular season and start the playoffs in September with ALL the teams.



Slippery slope logical fallacy.



24 is the number and that's how it would be until such a time as it can be consistently shown that 32 teams reasonably could win a playoff game.

[MplsBison]

You said there were 24 teams that could win, yet I've just shown you not even all 16 can now.

You've shown me nothing of the sort.

There are 24 teams that can win that aren't in those 4 conferences.

[89Hen]

24 is the number and that's how it would be until such a time as it can be consistently shown that 32 teams reasonably could win a playoff game.
:confused: : smh : You haven't shown 24 could reasonably win a playoff game (I've shown 16 can't).

[Sir William]

Slippery slope logical fallacy.



24 is the number and that's how it would be until such a time as it can be consistently shown that 32 teams reasonably could win a playoff game.

You obviously did not read my whole reply. Please do so now.

[89Hen]

You've shown me nothing of the sort.

There are 24 teams that can win that aren't in those 4 conferences.
I guess it depends on how you define 'can'. :rolleyes:

[MplsBison]

Here are the GPI rankings for teams with at least 7 DI wins.

There are 32 for sure.

FAMU and SCSU I left at the bottom because I don't know if their wins against Winston Salem State count as DI wins or not.

But that's certainly enough for a field of 24.



1 Massachusetts A10 (N) 10-1
2 N Dakota St GWFC 10-1
3 Appalachian St SOCON 10-1
4 Montana BSC 10-1
5 Youngstown St GFC 9-2
6 James Madison A10 (S) 9-2
7 New Hampshire A10 (N) 8-3
8 Illinois St GFC 8-3
9 S Illinois GFC 8-3
10 Portland St BSC 7-4
11 Furman SOCON 8-3
12 Northern Iowa GFC 7-4
13 San Diego PFL 10-0
15T Princeton IVY 9-1
19 Wofford SOCON 7-4
20 Coastal Carolina BSO 9-2
21 Hampton MEAC 10-1
22 Montana St BSC 7-4
23 Yale IVY 8-2
24 TN Martin OVC 9-2
25 Towson A10 (S) 7-4
26 E Illinois OVC 8-4
31 Harvard IVY 7-3
34 McNeese St SLC 7-4
36 Monmouth NEC 10-1
51 Holy Cross PL 7-4
58 Delaware St MEAC 8-3
59 Ark Pine Bluff SWAC (W) 8-3
63 Alabama A&M SWAC (E) 8-3
64T Albany NY NEC 7-4
67 Central Conn NEC 8-3
96 Duquesne MAAC 7-3


46 S Carolina St MEAC 7-4
66 Florida A&M MEAC 7-4

[lizrdgizrd]

I never said that I wanted more MEAC, OVC, NEC, or PFL teams in.
Then you want more Gateway, SoCon, CAA teams in? It's either going to be more 7-4 teams from the big conferences or a few MEAC, OVC, NEC, or PFL teams that have been overlooked due to SOS. With 8 more teams taken this season these teams would have made it: PSU, Towson, NIU, Cal Poly, DSU, Wofford, Monmouth & USD. If I remember correctly there were no other teams eligible for the playoffs and Lafayette was 6-5 and only made it in because of the autobid.

[Sir William]

16. Say it with me. 16.

Let the playoffs continue to truly mean something.

North Dakota State will get there opportunity soon enough...if they keep winning. It's one thing to win in transitional years; it's quite another to do so year in and year out. Best of luck Bison; just buckle up baby, the Montanas, UMass's, YSUs, Apps, GSUs, JMUs, and Furmans of the FCS world keep consistently winning year after year after year b/c for good reason.

[lizrdgizrd]

Here are the GPI rankings for teams with at least 7 wins.

Now, I don't know if they have 7 DI wins or not, not going to look through all of them.

There are 40 teams here and probably less than 40 would have the needed 7 DI wins minimum. But certainly more than 24.

1 Massachusetts A10 (N) 10-1
2 N Dakota St GWFC 10-1
3 Appalachian St SOCON 10-1
4 Montana BSC 10-1
5 Youngstown St GFC 9-2
6 James Madison A10 (S) 9-2
7 New Hampshire A10 (N) 8-3
8 Illinois St GFC 8-3
9 S Illinois GFC 8-3
10 Portland St BSC 7-4
11 Furman SOCON 8-3
12 Northern Iowa GFC 7-4
13 San Diego PFL 10-0
14 Cal Poly GWFC 7-4
15T Princeton IVY 9-1
15T S Dakota St GWFC 7-4
19 Wofford SOCON 7-4
20 Coastal Carolina BSO 9-2
21 Hampton MEAC 10-1
22 Montana St BSC 7-4
23 Yale IVY 8-2
24 TN Martin OVC 9-2
25 Towson A10 (S) 7-4
26 E Illinois OVC 8-4
27T C Arkansas INDEP 8-3
31 Harvard IVY 7-3
34 McNeese St SLC 7-4
36 Monmouth NEC 10-1
42 Charleston So BSO 9-2
46 S Carolina St MEAC 7-4
51 Holy Cross PL 7-4
58 Delaware St MEAC 8-3
59 Ark Pine Bluff SWAC (W) 8-3
62 Drake PFL 9-2
63 Alabama A&M SWAC (E) 8-3
64T Albany NY NEC 7-4
66 Florida A&M MEAC 7-4
67 Central Conn NEC 8-3
86 Robert Morris NEC 7-4
96 Duquesne MAAC 7-3
So now you want any team with 7 DI wins in the playoffs?

[89Hen]

Here are the GPI rankings for teams with at least 7 wins.

Now, I don't know if they have 7 DI wins or not, not going to look through all of them.
Let me help you out. The SWAC and Ivy don't participate, some others are ineligible and some didn't have 7 DI wins. Here's what is left...

10 Portland St BSC 7-4
12 Northern Iowa GFC 7-4
13 San Diego PFL 10-0
14 Cal Poly GWFC 7-4
19 Wofford SOCON 7-4
25 Towson A10 (S) 7-4
36 Monmouth NEC 10-1
51 Holy Cross PL 7-4
58 Delaware St MEAC 8-3
62 Drake PFL 9-2
64T Albany NY NEC 7-4
67 Central Conn NEC 8-3
96 Duquesne MAAC 7-3

That's a grand total of 13 teams that were "eligible" for the playoffs. You are honestly going to sit there and tell me 8 of them should have been in. xcoffeex

[MplsBison]

Here are the GPI rankings for teams with at least 7 DI wins.

There are 32 for sure.

FAMU and SCSU I left at the bottom because I don't know if their wins against Winston Salem State count as DI wins or not.

But that's certainly enough for a field of 24.



1 Massachusetts A10 (N) 10-1
2 N Dakota St GWFC 10-1
3 Appalachian St SOCON 10-1
4 Montana BSC 10-1
5 Youngstown St GFC 9-2
6 James Madison A10 (S) 9-2
7 New Hampshire A10 (N) 8-3
8 Illinois St GFC 8-3
9 S Illinois GFC 8-3
10 Portland St BSC 7-4
11 Furman SOCON 8-3
12 Northern Iowa GFC 7-4
13 San Diego PFL 10-0
15T Princeton IVY 9-1
19 Wofford SOCON 7-4
20 Coastal Carolina BSO 9-2
21 Hampton MEAC 10-1
22 Montana St BSC 7-4
23 Yale IVY 8-2
24 TN Martin OVC 9-2
25 Towson A10 (S) 7-4
26 E Illinois OVC 8-4
31 Harvard IVY 7-3
34 McNeese St SLC 7-4
36 Monmouth NEC 10-1
51 Holy Cross PL 7-4
58 Delaware St MEAC 8-3
59 Ark Pine Bluff SWAC (W) 8-3
63 Alabama A&M SWAC (E) 8-3
64T Albany NY NEC 7-4
67 Central Conn NEC 8-3
96 Duquesne MAAC 7-3


46 S Carolina St MEAC 7-4
66 Florida A&M MEAC 7-4

[MplsBison]

NDSU should've been in.

Portland State should've been in.

UNI should've been in.

San Diego proved they could be in when they played UC Davis much closer than playoff team Montana State.

The 3 best IVY schools could easily win.

Wofford should've been in.

Towson should've been in.


That's 9 right there.


And all of them were ranked higher than 34 McNeese who got an autobid.

I'd even make a case for Monmouth.

After that, it's harder.

[89Hen]

The 3 best IVY schools could easily win.
Now if you could only convince the Ivy presidents that they should ALLOW their teams to participate. :rolleyes: C'mon Mpls.

[MplsBison]

Going to 24 would take into consideration future participation of the IVY.

[lizrdgizrd]

Here are the GPI rankings for teams with at least 7 DI wins.

There are 32 for sure.

FAMU and SCSU I left at the bottom because I don't know if their wins against Winston Salem State count as DI wins or not.

But that's certainly enough for a field of 24.



1 Massachusetts A10 (N) 10-1
2 N Dakota St GWFC 10-1
3 Appalachian St SOCON 10-1
4 Montana BSC 10-1
5 Youngstown St GFC 9-2
6 James Madison A10 (S) 9-2
7 New Hampshire A10 (N) 8-3
8 Illinois St GFC 8-3
9 S Illinois GFC 8-3
10 Portland St BSC 7-4
11 Furman SOCON 8-3
12 Northern Iowa GFC 7-4
13 San Diego PFL 10-0
15T Princeton IVY 9-1
19 Wofford SOCON 7-4
20 Coastal Carolina BSO 9-2
21 Hampton MEAC 10-1
22 Montana St BSC 7-4
23 Yale IVY 8-2
24 TN Martin OVC 9-2
25 Towson A10 (S) 7-4
26 E Illinois OVC 8-4
31 Harvard IVY 7-3
34 McNeese St SLC 7-4
36 Monmouth NEC 10-1
51 Holy Cross PL 7-4
58 Delaware St MEAC 8-3
59 Ark Pine Bluff SWAC (W) 8-3
63 Alabama A&M SWAC (E) 8-3
64T Albany NY NEC 7-4
67 Central Conn NEC 8-3
96 Duquesne MAAC 7-3


46 S Carolina St MEAC 7-4
66 Florida A&M MEAC 7-4
You can't count NDSU or Duquesne because they're not eligible. You can't count the Ivy's and SWACs 'cause they don't want to play. That leaves you with these teams:

1 Massachusetts A10 (N) 10-1
3 Appalachian St SOCON 10-1
4 Montana BSC 10-1
5 Youngstown St GFC 9-2
6 James Madison A10 (S) 9-2
7 New Hampshire A10 (N) 8-3
8 Illinois St GFC 8-3
9 S Illinois GFC 8-3
10 Portland St BSC 7-4
11 Furman SOCON 8-3
12 Northern Iowa GFC 7-4
13 San Diego PFL 10-0
19 Wofford SOCON 7-4
20 Coastal Carolina BSO 9-2
21 Hampton MEAC 10-1
22 Montana St BSC 7-4
24 TN Martin OVC 9-2
25 Towson A10 (S) 7-4
26 E Illinois OVC 8-4
34 McNeese St SLC 7-4
36 Monmouth NEC 10-1
51 Holy Cross PL 7-4
58 Delaware St MEAC 8-3
64T Albany NY NEC 7-4
67 Central Conn NEC 8-3

46 S Carolina St MEAC 7-4
66 Florida A&M MEAC 7-4

And you want to see th 67th ranked team in the playoffs? WHY?

[lizrdgizrd]

Going to 24 would take into consideration future participation of the IVY.
So we'll just wait on the Ivy league to decide to join the playoffs before we go to 24 then shall we?

[89Hen]

Going to 24 would take into consideration future participation of the IVY.
http://www.tarrantcounty.com/ehealth/lib/ehealth/HealthAlert.jpg
Uh-oh backpedal alert! You never made any claim to IVY (or SWAC) participation.

"16 used to be good enough because only the top 16 teams had the talent.

Now 24 teams have enough talent to win a playoff game.

It stops at 24, for now.

Perhaps one day 32 teams will have the talent, but not now."

NOW there are barely 16. Perhaps one day there will be 24.

[FargoBison]

You guys arguing with MplsBison might want to step away from the computer and find a brick wall to argue with, trust me you would be better off. The guy has had about 5 screen names over at Bisonville for reason.

[MplsBison]

Even without the IVYs, there are 24.

With the IVYs, then you're talking maybe 32.

[89Hen]

Even without the IVYs, there are 24.

With the IVYs, then you're talking maybe 32.
Man are you digging yourself deeper and deeper.

"The 3 best IVY schools could easily win.

That's 9 right there.

And all of them were ranked higher than 34 McNeese who got an autobid.

I'd even make a case for Monmouth.

After that, it's harder."

GAME, SET, MATCH. xcoffeex

[lizrdgizrd]

Even without the IVYs, there are 24.

With the IVYs, then you're talking maybe 32.
So magically 8 IVY teams are playoff eligible?

[NE MT GRIZZ]

Even without the IVYs, there are 24.

With the IVYs, then you're talking maybe 32.


So 8 IVY league schools deserve to make the playoffs?xidiotx :bang:

[MplsBison]

After that, it's harder.



Harder != impossible.

[MplsBison]

So 8 IVY league schools deserve to make the playoffs?

Any IVY league school with 7 DI wins should be considered to make the playoffs.


Same with any other school with 7 DI wins.

[MplsBison]

So magically 8 IVY teams are playoff eligible?

Nope.

[lizrdgizrd]

Nope.

Even without the IVYs, there are 24.

With the IVYs, then you're talking maybe 32.
Then how do you get from 24 now to 32 with Ivy?

[lizrdgizrd]

Any IVY league school with 7 DI wins should be considered to make the playoffs.


Same with any other school with 7 DI wins.
I think they would be IF THEY WOULD AGREE TO PLAY IN THE PLAYOFFS

[MplsBison]

Then how do you get from 24 now to 32 with Ivy?

More than 24 teams having a good case for the playoff but not enough for 32 without the IVYs.

[MplsBison]

I think they would be IF THEY WOULD AGREE TO PLAY IN THE PLAYOFFS

They should.

But they aren't needed for 24.

[lizrdgizrd]

More than 24 teams having a good case for the playoff but not enough for 32 without the IVYs.
Ok, back to not having Ivy league teams. You really want to see a playoffs that would likely include teams in the bottom half of the GPI?

64T Albany NY NEC 7-4
67 Central Conn NEC 8-3

66 Florida A&M MEAC 7-4

[89Hen]

More than 24 teams having a good case for the playoff but not enough for 32 without the IVYs.
:confused: Without the Ivy you were having trouble after 6 more. xlolx

Please STOP, I'm starting to feel bad for you.

[BlueHen86]

I was going to choose 24, but after reading all of MplsBison agruments, I am now convinced 16 is the better choice.

[89Hen]

I was going to choose 24, but after reading all of MplsBison agruments, I am now convinced 16 is the better choice.
Classic. Keep going Mpls, you may convince people 8 is the magic number soon.

[lizrdgizrd]

I was going to choose 24, but after reading all of MplsBison agruments, I am now convinced 16 is the better choice.
Hm. Bison picks for playoffs 0-15 (I think). Now his deft arguments have convinced someone to change their choice away from what he prefers. More as this story develops....

[MplsBison]

Basing the decision on 1 year alone is foolish.

[89Hen]

Basing the decision on 1 year alone is foolish.
Pick any years you'd like up until now. xcoffeex

[MplsBison]

I don't have data for any other year.

[GannonFan]

I don't have data for any other year.

Gee, that's a shocker. :p

[proasu89]

I think DetroitFlyer and Mpls are just trying to drum up votes for most annoying poster. Here's my response to both in no particular order. One of you will be eligible soon and the other...PLEASE, OH PLEASE,SCHEDULE SOME FREAKIN COMPETITION BEFORE COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING LEFT OUT:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[FargoBison]

I think DetroitFlyer and Mpls are just trying to drum up votes for most annoying poster. Here's my response to both in no particular order. One of you will be eligible soon and the other...PLEASE, OH PLEASE,SCHEDULE SOME FREAKIN COMPETITION BEFORE COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING LEFT OUT:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

No, what you read was Mpls being Mpls or Bison1234 or whatever else he goes by. A link in case you don't believe me (http://www400.pair.com/bisonvil/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1095433197/0#0)

[kardplayer]

I voted no, but that's because I think it should be 20.

- Give autobids to the NEC and the PFL (if they apply for one). There's also two autobids available for the Great West and the Big South if they get to 6 teams. If the Ivy and SWAC want to play, give them autobids too.

Can anyone name for me any level of any other sport where you can win your division and not make the playoffs?

- Until the GWFC/BS/Ivy/SWAC get autobids, 2 more at larges open up.

In most years, the bubble teams are 8-3 and have strong cases. I'm okay with letting two more in most years - 8 more is a little much.

- If all those conferences get to autobid status, we'd actually LOSE 2 at larges.

Don't really like that, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I think that's a LOOONG way off.

- It makes Thanksgiving week a bye week for 12 of the 20 teams and makes the usually dead week have less games. It also most likely lengthens the season beyond 15 for no one. I know UMass was an 11 seed back in 98, but even they would have had a bye in the 20 team format.

[LeopardFan04]

I voted no, but that's because I think it should be 20.

- Give autobids to the NEC and the PFL (if they apply for one). There's also two autobids available for the Great West and the Big South if they get to 6 teams. If the Ivy and SWAC want to play, give them autobids too.

Can anyone name for me any level of any other sport where you can win your division and not make the playoffs?

- Until the GWFC/BS/Ivy/SWAC get autobids, 2 more at larges open up.

In most years, the bubble teams are 8-3 and have strong cases. I'm okay with letting two more in most years - 8 more is a little much.

- If all those conferences get to autobid status, we'd actually LOSE 2 at larges.

Don't really like that, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I think that's a LOOONG way off.

- It makes Thanksgiving week a bye week for 12 of the 20 teams and makes the usually dead week have less games. It also most likely lengthens the season beyond 15 for no one. I know UMass was an 11 seed back in 98, but even they would have had a bye in the 20 team format.

Kind of what I was thinking of proposing...make it happen kardplayer!

[MplsBison]

Don't increase the autobids.

That's a sure fire way to kill any expansion proposal.

Keep those the same and increase the number of at larges. Then give the autobids first round byes to shut them up.

Then no one has anything left to complain about.

[DetroitFlyer]

Don't forget, I have a vote too and I'm not afraid to use it!:D

[89Hen]

Can anyone name for me any level of any other sport where you can win your division and not make the playoffs?
ACC Lacrosse. Hey, you said "can", if marbles is allowed to use such a loose definition of "can" so should I. :p

[eaglesrthe1]

DF, as long as you keep ignoring the bold in your endless rant against the machine while not providing a single instance to refute the fact that in 14 seasons no PFL team has been worthy you'll continue to be simply howling against the wind. Just being argumentative does not represent a valid argument. And your insinuation that a 4 year startup program like Coastal Carolina is now part of the "Old Guard" because they cowtowed to the rest of IAA (FCS) and played a valid schedule is easily past the boundary into simply hysterical. Hey, keep your head in the sand and posting away - I like laughing during the day. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

The path is clear, yet some insist on trying to cut through the jungle.

[UAalum72]

ACC Lacrosse. Hey, you said "can", if marbles is allowed to use such a loose definition of "can" so should I. :p
The ACC is not a valid, qualified conference for lacrosse according to the rule book - only 4 teams.

[89Hen]

The ACC is not a valid, qualified conference for lacrosse according to the rule book - only 4 teams.
Hey, you mind your own business. :p

However, to answer the question...

This year the ACC, Big East, Pac10, BigXII, C-USA, MAC, WAC, MWC, SunBelt... champs did not play for a championship in football.

[andy7171]

Not all conferences have auto bids to the NCAA basketball tourney. Towson did alot of conference jumping in the late 80's 90's to ensure they had a chance to make the dance in b-ball.

[GannonFan]

Not all conferences have auto bids to the NCAA basketball tourney. Towson did alot of conference jumping in the late 80's 90's to ensure they had a chance to make the dance in b-ball.

Huh? Which conference doesn't have a bid in men's DI basketball? I'm not aware of any that don't.