The Citadel

[TheKingpin28]

Now that North Carolina lost to Duke, who is having an off year by losing 6 games to an average of 8.5 points, but not a bad team by any means, lost, how does this affect The Citadel, assuming they beat VMI this week? Does this lower the possible value of an El Cid win? If they did win, would they still be worthy of a #1 or #2 seed even if NDSU, EWU, and possibly JSU, JMU, and SHSU/UCA win out? I understand the what if game sucks, but I am posing this as an honest question since I do not know where to rate this game versus EWU vs WSU and NDSU vs Iowa.

[Daytripper]

In my mind, any FCS win over an FBS team is a good win. Of course there are different levels of FBS competition. If a team is undefeated with an FBS win, they beat everybody in front of them and should be in consideration for a top two seed.

[Schism55]

It undoubtedly makes their chance of beating UNC much lower.
Heels will be angry after losing to Duke and will be looking to take that out on the Bulldogs.
UNC by a lot after tonights result.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Duke is still a tough out. Plus, this was a big rivalry game on the road. The Citadel will need to play lights out to win next week. I think the Bulldogs can be in it for 4 quarters. But I'll be shocked if they pull off the upset.

[ngineer]

I remember El Cid's foray into Wisconsin a few years ago and came oh so close to pulling off a shocker. It can be done.

[ElCid]

Nice speculation, but NC might still be a top 25 team after this and it will be hard as heck. But if we were to somehow beat them and be 11-0, if we didn't get 1 or 2, it would be a travesty. One thing I noticed was that Duke held the ball for 38 minutes or so. That is the only way we will. 38-40 minutes holding the ball might help us keep it close. Their offense is pretty good even if they did not play well tonight. Doesn't look like they have too tough of a defense so maybe we can string some 1st downs together. I was thinking actually the opposite in regard to their loss and motivation. They just blew a shot at the ACC championship game probably. They have NC State the week after. They will need that one to have any hope of staying alive. We will be an after thought, especially with 9 days to moll it over. Eh, who knows. Nobody getting hurt is more important. Even if we lose, and we have a respectable game, I still think we have an argument for 3 or 4.

[MTfan4life]

Now that North Carolina lost to Duke, who is having an off year by losing 6 games to an average of 8.5 points, but not a bad team by any means, lost, how does this affect The Citadel, assuming they beat VMI this week? Does this lower the possible value of an El Cid win? If they did win, would they still be worthy of a #1 or #2 seed even if NDSU, EWU, and possibly JSU, JMU, and SHSU/UCA win out? I understand the what if game sucks, but I am posing this as an honest question since I do not know where to rate this game versus EWU vs WSU and NDSU vs Iowa.

Yes UNC lost to Duke, but they also have a win @Florida State and they whipped James Madison. I'd have to imagine a Bulldog victory over UNC would still look pretty incredible. North Carolina is still ahead of Iowa on many fronts and had been ahead of WSU before this Duke loss. I don't think The Citadel stands a chance against UNC, but in the rare case it did happen, it'd be either the best or 2nd best FBS win a team has had this season. Important to note the UNC very recently dominated Georgia Tech, another triple option type team. Also important to note is that UNC has just been slaying FCS competition since their narrow win over William & Mary in 2010.

[cidgrad89]

James Madison lost to UNC by 28. If The Citadel can keep it within 17, I think that gives them the argument to jump James Madison in seeding (assuming beating VMI sat). A win by the Bulldogs going 11-0, I think a #1 seed.

[citdog]

JUST BEAT VMI


worry about the tarheels next week

[Twentysix]

Yes UNC lost to Duke, but they also have a win @Florida State and they whipped James Madison. I'd have to imagine a Bulldog victory over UNC would still look pretty incredible. North Carolina is still ahead of Iowa on many fronts and had been ahead of WSU before this Duke loss. I don't think The Citadel stands a chance against UNC, but in the rare case it did happen, it'd be either the best or 2nd best FBS win a team has had this season. Important to note the UNC very recently dominated Georgia Tech, another triple option type team. Also important to note is that UNC has just been slaying FCS competition since their narrow win over William & Mary in 2010.

If the Citadel beats UNC they will surely drop, maybe below Iowa.

[jmu007]

I'm rooting you you guys, but it doesn't work that way. A loss is a loss. Win and you'll jump up. A loss is a loss is a loss.

[BearKatProud]

My two cents, I think The Citadel absolutely deserves a top seed if they win out.

In 2011 SHSU didn't have the playoff success they have today but they went undefeated in the regular season and beat FBS New Mexico - They got the #1 seed. UNC is a much tougher FBS opponent. No doubt in my mind The Citadel would be deserving.

[FUBeAR]

UNC still a top 25 team
if we were to beat them and be 11-0, if we didn't get 1, it would be a travesty.
if we lose and have a respectable game, we have an argument for 1

FIFY - although I rarely heed this advice myself ;), sometimes fewer words say more...

[Millwoch]

If I'm the UNC coaches I'm showing my kids the South Carolina game from last year. UNC will be ready. Agree with Citdog. BEAT VMI!!!!!

[Daytripper]

JUST BEAT VMI


worry about the tarheels next week

Yep. This is the same issue that SHSU fans are doing...discounting NWST because they are win-less and only talking about the UCA game next week..

[UNIFanSince1983]

If the Citadel beats UNC they will surely drop, maybe below Iowa.

However, Iowa has at least 1 more loss on their schedule left too. More than likely 2 more losses. I think UNC would still be ahead of Iowa after a loss to The Citadel.

[walliver]

UNC took care of business against Georgia Tech a few weeks ago. The 'heels will not be unprepared. It will be a hard game for the Citadel. A Bellhop win would still be very impressive.

[JMad03]

If they lose, I think what might hurt The Citadel the most is the timing of the loss. It always seems to hurt a team more if its a loss at the end of the season versus a loss to that same team earlier that season. JMU lost to UNC and moved down the polls the next week. I don't understand why that wouldn't happen to The Citadel if they lose. Had the roles been reversed and JMU were to play UNC in a few weeks and lose, I would expect the same to happen.
I'm not saying it's right, but there is recency bias and the committee is human, so it is very possible it could hurt more than it hurt JMU.

[SU DOG]

If they lose, I think what might hurt The Citadel the most is the timing of the loss. It always seems to hurt a team more if its a loss at the end of the season versus a loss to that same team earlier that season. JMU lost to UNC and moved down the polls the next week. I don't understand why that wouldn't happen to The Citadel if they lose. Had the roles been reversed and JMU were to play UNC in a few weeks and lose, I would expect the same to happen.
I'm not saying it's right, but there is recency bias and the committee is human, so it is very possible it could hurt more than it hurt JMU.

You are probably right, but that is SO WRONG. No way that a loss to a P5 team should hurt The Citadel with what they have accomplished this year. I don't think it will happen, but I would love to see that upset.

[JMad03]

It is wrong, but unfortunately it happens to most teams that play FBS schools and lose. It's a shame they had to play UNC as their last look from the committee. At the same time, they could make one hell of a statement if they were to win that game. If they win, there's no doubt they are 1 or 2. Plus, ranking does not always dictate where they are seeded. The Citadel could technically move down a spot or two and still end up being top 4. However, if it's a loss in a blowout I have a hard time thinking the committee will consider them a top 4 team. It could happen to anyone. Scheduling is key in not just who you face, but when you face them.

[cidgrad89]

The only team that can possibly jump a 10-1 The Citadel in the seeding is UCA. The Citadel is already ranked "rock bottom" by the Playoff Committee. Chatt doesn't jump them, neither does a two loss Richmond. Dogs have nothing to loose if they beat VMI.

[Sandlapper Spike]

During an interview, the committee chairman basically said that the committee's evaluation of The Citadel's will essentially be complete prior to the UNC contest. That game won't matter unless the Bulldogs actually win it.

[Daytripper]

During an interview, the committee chairman basically said that the committee's evaluation of The Citadel's will essentially be complete prior to the UNC contest. That game won't matter unless the Bulldogs actually win it.

Can't wait to see the puckering of everybody if The Citadel does beat UNC and ends up undefeated. They would have to be a top 2 seed.

[ElCid]

It is wrong, but unfortunately it happens to most teams that play FBS schools and lose. It's a shame they had to play UNC as their last look from the committee. At the same time, they could make one hell of a statement if they were to win that game. If they win, there's no doubt they are 1 or 2. Plus, ranking does not always dictate where they are seeded. The Citadel could technically move down a spot or two and still end up being top 4. However, if it's a loss in a blowout I have a hard time thinking the committee will consider them a top 4 team. It could happen to anyone. Scheduling is key in not just who you face, but when you face them.

Yeah, but I would rather have this than in the middle of season. First game is ok because I think FCS have an edge then. I hate Oct FBS games. At least we are fine tuned now and still nice and healthy. I only really fear injuries. But if you saw what the coach said, he basically said .... so what, injuries are part of the game and they will go full throttle regardless of who it is.

[dgtw]

Why is UNC playing two FCS games this year?


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[CHIP72]

If The Citadel beats North Carolina and finishes undefeated, they deserve serious consideration for the #1 overall seed IMO.

[CID1990]

If The Citadel beats North Carolina and finishes undefeated, they deserve serious consideration for the #1 overall seed IMO.

That most likely isnt going to happen.

The Citadel should be the #4 seed behind NDSU, EWU, and JMU right now and it is unfortunate that we have to beat or play the Tarheels close to even get that consideration.

We have a top 20 SOS and we've beaten them all except the FBS team. The committee should just admit that past performance and history in the playoffs outweighs SOS.


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[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That most likely isnt going to happen.

The Citadel should be the #4 seed behind NDSU, EWU, and JMU right now and it is unfortunate that we have to beat or play the Tarheels close to even get that consideration.

We have a top 20 SOS and we've beaten them all except the FBS team. The committee should just admit that past performance and history in the playoffs outweighs SOS.


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UNC shut down (score but GT rushed for 334) a decent option team in Georgia Tech but if The Citadel beats UNC then they should be in consideration for a top spot.

[RootinFerDukes]

I agree. If el cid does beat unc, they should be a 2 seed at minimum. With that being said, they won't beat unc unless they get +3 TO margin, a defensive/special teams score and have an absolutely lights out defensive performance. The referees will be on unc's side too. They always give them some serious home cooking when we play them.
They just lost to Duke, which will only motivate them to get it done that much more this week. They're very talented at QB and WRs, who will all be playing on Sundays. I hope your secondary can keep up because they get wide open easily. Does your defensive line provide serious pressure? If their QB stands there and gets to read his play, he'll burn you every time.

I'm not trying to sound bleak, I'm just being honest.

JMU did drop 28 on them and even lead 21-14 in the 2nd. Their defense took us for granted and we exploited it. Unfortunately, our defense had a poor game and let them go 8 for 8 on their drives to start the day.

[Mocs123]

Congratulations to The Citadel on winning the SoCon championship outright.

I guess our run had to end sometime. :(

Good luck in the playoffs (hopefully we will be there too)

[dewey]

If The Citadel beats North Carolina they should be a top 3 seed. I am not sure they have a better resume than NDSU or EWU but a win over a P5 FBS would be huge. A competitive loss doesn't hurt them in my eyes.

Dewey

[elcid96]

If The Citadel beats North Carolina they should be a top 3 seed. I am not sure they have a better resume than NDSU or EWU but a win over a P5 FBS would be huge. A competitive loss doesn't hurt them in my eyes.

Dewey

Seriously? EWU LOST to a top 25 FCS team and beat two others. The Citadel beat 3 FCS top 25 teams and LOST to no one. Now if we win against our FBS opponent, we don't rank ahead of EWU. Seriously?

[CockyGeek]

Why is UNC playing two FCS games this year?


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They did last year too.

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[CID1990]

I agree. If el cid does beat unc, they should be a 2 seed at minimum. With that being said, they won't beat unc unless they get +3 TO margin, a defensive/special teams score and have an absolutely lights out defensive performance. The referees will be on unc's side too. They always give them some serious home cooking when we play them.
They just lost to Duke, which will only motivate them to get it done that much more this week. They're very talented at QB and WRs, who will all be playing on Sundays. I hope your secondary can keep up because they get wide open easily. Does your defensive line provide serious pressure? If their QB stands there and gets to read his play, he'll burn you every time.

I'm not trying to sound bleak, I'm just being honest.

JMU did drop 28 on them and even lead 21-14 in the 2nd. Their defense took us for granted and we exploited it. Unfortunately, our defense had a poor game and let them go 8 for 8 on their drives to start the day.

You aren't being bleak at all- UNC is everything you said and they have a nasty offense.

Our DL can pressure QBs and our blitz packages are fast and devastating (wish we used them more).

Lots of things have to go right for us and lots of things have to go wrong for them for us to have a prayer.

I'm not speculating where we should be if we beat UNC- I'm just complaining that we aren't already #4 in the committee's minds, and that we would have to beat UNC for that to happen. Our SOS and our record (even if UNC wasnt in the picture) is meaningless.


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[RootinFerDukes]

They appear to be basing it somewhat on national polls and prior postseason success. Jsu and shsu are as high as they are because they were runner up and semifinalist respectively while also not losing to any Fcs this year.

[TheKingpin28]

Well it sounds like committee does not value FBS losses that are played this late in the season (be it they not be blowouts) that much so the UNC game, as long as they keep it close, will not hinder them. However, should they win, and NDSU, EWU, JMU, JSU, SHSU/UCA, SDSU, and UR win next week, this is how it should be for Selection Sunday:

#1 EWU/NDSU
#2 EWU/NDSU
#3 The Citadel
#4 JMU
#5 JSU/SHSU or UCA
#6 JSU/SHSU or UCA
#7 UR/UND/SDSU
#8 UR/UND/SDSU

If The Citadel loses

#1 EWU/NDSU
#2 EWU/NDSU
#3 JMU
#4 The Citadel
#5 JSU/SHSU or UCA
#6 JSU/SHSU or UCA
#7 UR/UND/SDSU
#8 UR/UND/SDSU

This is how I see it breaking out. Since SHSU/UCA will knockout 1 team, there will be, assuming they all win out with UND on the bye, 9 teams fighting for 8 seeds with the loser being regionalized and highly screwed.

[CockyGeek]

This committee isn't going to randomly drop JSU four spots.

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[TheKingpin28]

This committee isn't going to randomly drop JSU four spots.

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EDIT: They dropped SHSU 3 spots so do not be surprised if common sense wins out

[Schism55]

EDIT: They dropped SHSU 3 spots so do not be surprised if common sense wins out
This.
Also one would assume the committee will dig deeper when seeding the field. JSU in a one bid conference, Liberty win looking meh at best, I'd be a lil worried if I was a JSU fan.

[JSUSoutherner]

This.
Also one would assume the committee will dig deeper when seeding the field. JSU in a one bid conference, Liberty win looking meh at best, I'd be a lil worried if I was a JSU fan.
Ehh. It is what it is.

[CID1990]

Well it sounds like committee does not value FBS losses that are played this late in the season (be it they not be blowouts) that much so the UNC game, as long as they keep it close, will not hinder them. However, should they win, and NDSU, EWU, JMU, JSU, SHSU/UCA, SDSU, and UR win next week, this is how it should be for Selection Sunday:

#1 EWU/NDSU
#2 EWU/NDSU
#3 The Citadel
#4 JMU
#5 JSU/SHSU or UCA
#6 JSU/SHSU or UCA
#7 UR/UND/SDSU
#8 UR/UND/SDSU

If The Citadel loses

#1 EWU/NDSU
#2 EWU/NDSU
#3 JMU
#4 The Citadel
#5 JSU/SHSU or UCA
#6 JSU/SHSU or UCA
#7 UR/UND/SDSU
#8 UR/UND/SDSU

This is how I see it breaking out. Since SHSU/UCA will knockout 1 team, there will be, assuming they all win out with UND on the bye, 9 teams fighting for 8 seeds with the loser being regionalized and highly screwed.

I don't see us getting a #4 seed. If our record and SOS didn't matter to the committee prior to the Samford game, and then our ranking didn't change after the Samford game, I don't see how losing to UNC moves the needle no matter how we play them.


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