UND Negotiating move to MVFC and Summit

[abc123]

No. The reason they said they wouldn't allow football affiliation is to force the Summit League schools to leverage them into the MVFC so they could get them completely out of their hair. Sorry. $ talks bull**** walks.

So you're saying Andrea Williams, who has been on the job for less than a year, managed to outsmarted Douple/Patty V?

The Big Sky Presidents had zero issues with UND remaining a full member. Idaho had UND's membership as a contingency of them joining. The only thing they weren't supportive of was another football only affiliate.

[clenz]

My 3 year old daughter can outsmart Patty V

[Thumper 76]

So you're saying Andrea Williams, who has been on the job for less than a year, managed to outsmarted Douple/Patty V?

The Big Sky Presidents had zero issues with UND remaining a full member. Idaho had UND's membership as a contingency of them joining. The only thing they weren't supportive of was another football only affiliate.

No, I'm saying they were smart enough to know how to force the Summit schools to lobby for UND. In her interview with 1660 Patty said the big push for them was from Summit schools because they really wanted a 10th member in the Summit. There wouldn't have been any push from the Summit schools for that had there not been the mandate that the Sky wouldn't have UND as a football only member. There is no other reason to have that mandate. The Sky has football only members already. That's not outsmarting anything, that's smart negotiating and recognizing an opportunity. It's no secret there's members of the Big Sky that don't like the distance to travel to Grand Forks. If you have the opportunity to get rid of that long trip like that and are smart, then you do that.

It sets a bad precedent for a conference like the Big Sky when they are set on adding a member to kick a school out that they recently added, relatively speaking. Not a great selling point if you need to court other suitors to join your conference at some point. Much better to be able to say that you left on good terms with a team that was an outlier like that, so of course they aren't going to just boot UND. The master plan for the Sky was to add the UxDs and then try to court the other Dakota's, and the MVFC blocked that by adding USeD at the last second, leaving the Sky stuck with a geographic outlier. This isn't that hard to see.


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[70MilesFromCanada]

Fuel for the fire: 2016 Results

BS VS MV xscanx

Head to Head: BS - 4 wins (1 in OT), MV - 3 wins (2 in OT)
Home Wins: BS - 2 wins, MV - 3 wins
Away Wins: BS - 2 wins, MV - 0 wins
Overall Records of Teams Who Played in the 7 games: BS - .639 (46-26), MV - .600 (36-24)
(I only counted the team record once for teams that played more than one game vs other conference.)

MV > BS < MV ?
BS > MV < BS ?

xdrunkyxxdrunkyxxdrunkyx

[Hammerhead]

Sagarin has UND rated lower than 5 MVFC teams.

[geaux_sioux]

Sagarin has UND rated lower than 5 MVFC teams.

Our future conference is soooooooo goooooooood.

[BisonFan02]

Our future conference is soooooooo goooooooood.

Will you guys still have D1 football by then or is the plan to cut it like UNO and go all hockies and summit? xlolx

[geaux_sioux]

Will you guys still have D1 football by then or is the plan to cut it like UNO and go all hockies and summit? xlolx

We should have cut as many sports as possible and funded the remaining ones at as high a level as possible.... But that's none of my business

[70MilesFromCanada]

Sagarin has UND rated lower than 5 MVFC teams.

Ahh, the computer ratings therorists pop up again. My post was not specifically UND related. It only pointed out 2016 real-world results of BS vs MV. The only time computers even matter is seeding time (or as an argument crutch on this board). Even then the championship is won on the field.

[F'N Hawks]

Will you guys still have D1 football by then or is the plan to cut it like UNO and go all hockies and summit? xlolx

It is not possible to fund teh hockies anymore than they do.

[Thumper 76]

Ahh, the computer ratings therorists pop up again. My post was not specifically UND related. It only pointed out 2016 real-world results of BS vs MV. The only time computers even matter is seeding time (or as an argument crutch on this board). Even then the championship is won on the field.

Well considering that two of the wins were against a bad UNI team for the Big Sky I would call it a wash at best. How many playoff wins did the Big Sky have? I mean I know they gave the Pioneer League their first win in the playoffs, ever, but my memory is rusty at best. Oh and did you figure in the inter conference matchup from the playoffs as well into your numbers? It's rather silly to have a even split in OOC matchups and such a disparity in playoff success between the two conferences and claim they are even. They Sky had a good team at the top and was pretty mediocre through the rest of it. That's reality. The CAA can argue with the MVFC, the Sky can't.


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[F'N Hawks]

Well considering that two of the wins were against a bad UNI team for the Big Sky I would call it a wash at best. How many playoff wins did the Big Sky have? I mean I know they gave the Patriot League their first win in the playoffs, ever, but my memory is rusty at best. Oh and did you figure in the inter conference matchup from the playoffs as well into your numbers? It's rather silly to have a even split in OOC matchups and such a disparity in playoff success between the two conferences and claim they are even. They Sky had a good team at the top and was pretty mediocre through the rest of it. That's reality. The CAA can argue with the MVFC, the Sky can't.


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Patriot League was pretty good in the playoffs this year.

[centennial]

Patriot League was pretty good in the playoffs this year.

Purple?

[Bison56]

Ahh, the computer ratings therorists pop up again. My post was not specifically UND related. It only pointed out 2016 real-world results of BS vs MV. The only time computers even matter is seeding time (or as an argument crutch on this board). Even then the championship is won on the field.

https://media.giphy.com/media/t7fTZB37asHWE/giphy.gif (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiIzsi45-zRAhVsxYMKHZyADbkQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgiphy.com%2Fgifs%2Fcrazy-lady-t7fTZB37asHWE&bvm=bv.145822982,d.cGw&psig=AFQjCNERMkMjwyLOQ07Kkj5OGZbLgVnJrw&ust=1485966635357082)

[Bison56]

Patriot League was pretty good in the playoffs this year.

http://www.vomzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/cute-crazy-gif-552.gif (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjqtJPi5-zRAhXr7YMKHZjaCwgQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vomzi.com%2Fcrazy-gif-333%2Fcute-crazy-gif-552%2F&bvm=bv.145822982,d.cGw&psig=AFQjCNERMkMjwyLOQ07Kkj5OGZbLgVnJrw&ust=1485966635357082)

[Thumper 76]

Patriot League was pretty good in the playoffs this year.

Oof that was a bad one. Pioneer League. Good grief.


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[semobison]

Ahh, the computer ratings therorists pop up again. My post was not specifically UND related. It only pointed out 2016 real-world results of BS vs MV. The only time computers even matter is seeding time (or as an argument crutch on this board). Even then the championship is won on the field.

What was the BSC record in the playoffs? That's what really matters and they sucked......again!

[SDFS]

No, I'm saying they were smart enough to know how to force the Summit schools to lobby for UND. In her interview with 1660 Patty said the big push for them was from Summit schools because they really wanted a 10th member in the Summit. There wouldn't have been any push from the Summit schools for that had there not been the mandate that the Sky wouldn't have UND as a football only member. There is no other reason to have that mandate. The Sky has football only members already. That's not outsmarting anything, that's smart negotiating and recognizing an opportunity. It's no secret there's members of the Big Sky that don't like the distance to travel to Grand Forks. If you have the opportunity to get rid of that long trip like that and are smart, then you do that.

It sets a bad precedent for a conference like the Big Sky when they are set on adding a member to kick a school out that they recently added, relatively speaking. Not a great selling point if you need to court other suitors to join your conference at some point. Much better to be able to say that you left on good terms with a team that was an outlier like that, so of course they aren't going to just boot UND. The master plan for the Sky was to add the UxDs and then try to court the other Dakota's, and the MVFC blocked that by adding USeD at the last second, leaving the Sky stuck with a geographic outlier. This isn't that hard to see.


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Still sore about that Beef Bowl I see.

[70MilesFromCanada]

What was the BSC record in the playoffs? That's what really matters and they sucked......again!

I believe the only BS vs MV playoff game was YSU's road win over EWU. That would bring the season total to 4 wins each for BS and MV. Seems pretty even, although my math could be bad! Just trying to add some context to the arguments that have popped up that UND weakens the MV and/or will be a "bottom feeder".

[70MilesFromCanada]

http://www.vomzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/cute-crazy-gif-552.gif (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjqtJPi5-zRAhXr7YMKHZjaCwgQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vomzi.com%2Fcrazy-gif-333%2Fcute-crazy-gif-552%2F&bvm=bv.145822982,d.cGw&psig=AFQjCNERMkMjwyLOQ07Kkj5OGZbLgVnJrw&ust=1485966635357082)

Love the JD animation. Especially after i read about the crazy amount of money he was blowing every month. Notice who he is pointing at!

[semobison]

I believe the only BS vs MV playoff game was YSU's road win over EWU. That would bring the season total to 4 wins each for BS and MV. Seems pretty even, although my math could be bad! Just trying to add some context to the arguments that have popped up that UND weakens the MV and/or will be a "bottom feeder".

Nice try! Didn't answer my question though. Three BSC teams were one and done. The Valley had 3 in the quarters, 2 in the Semis. The last time a BSC team not named EWU or Montana won a playoff game was MSU in 2011! That sucks!

[70MilesFromCanada]

Nice try! Didn't answer my question though. Three BSC teams were one and done. The Valley had 3 in the quarters, 2 in the Semis. The last time a BSC team not named EWU or Montana won a playoff game was MSU in 2011! That sucks!

Sorry,I'm not trying to compare BS vs everyone. I'm just pointing out how the BS actually did vs the MV in 2016. This in regards to UND joining the MV. I'm not trying to ignore the BS playoffs results but (except for the YSU/EWU game) they are not relevant to the point I'm trying to make that; in 2016 the BS and MV head-to-head, played to a draw.

[Thumper 76]

Sorry,I'm not trying to compare BS vs everyone. I'm just pointing out how the BS actually did vs the MV in 2016. This in regards to UND joining the MV. I'm not trying to ignore the BS playoffs results but (except for the YSU/EWU game) they are not relevant to the point I'm trying to make that; in 2016 the BS and MV head-to-head, played to a draw.

Actually it is relevant. You are trying to compare conference strength. So results in the playoffs would be a rather decent gauge to add into the discussion. Especially considering that 3/4 wins for the BS were over MVFC teams that didn't make the playoffs.

Also, and this isn't directed at you 70miles, it's righteously funny reading posts on team boards (UxDs) talking about how unintelligent the posters here are. Meanwhile in the same post they can't even grasp the concept of why UNI, SDSU, and NDSU fans aren't happy about UND being added due to what it does to the conference schedule. Pretty laughable.


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[70MilesFromCanada]

Actually it is relevant. You are trying to compare conference strength. So results in the playoffs would be a rather decent gauge to add into the discussion. Especially considering that 3/4 wins for the BS were over MVFC teams that didn't make the playoffs.

Also, and this isn't directed at you 70miles, it's righteously funny reading posts on team boards (UxDs) talking about how unintelligent the posters here are. Meanwhile in the same post they can't even grasp the concept of why UNI, SDSU, and NDSU fans aren't happy about UND being added due to what it does to the conference schedule. Pretty laughable.


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I will comment that, other than increasing the possibility that more teams won't play each other every year (or more), we don't know what the schedule for 2020 will be yet. (Does anyone know how far in advance the MV schedule is done? i.e. Is the 2019 schedule out yet?)

As far as playing MV teams that didn't make the playoffs; I don't think that makes them bad teams. Others have stated that you can get beat up playing a typical MV schedule even if you win. Some of the BS/MV games were pretty good matchups. About all you can hope for when schedules for OOC games are set well in advance.

[Thumper 76]

I will comment that, other than increasing the possibility that more teams won't play each other every year (or more), we don't know what the schedule for 2020 will be yet. (Does anyone know how far in advance the MV schedule is done? i.e. Is the 2019 schedule out yet?)

As far as playing MV teams that didn't make the playoffs; I don't think that makes them bad teams. Others have stated that you can get beat up playing a typical MV schedule even if you win. Some of the BS/MV games were pretty good matchups. About all you can hope for when schedules for OOC games are set well in advance.

Well the Valley already has come out and said the schedule will be based off of geography, so that's not terribly hard to figure it's going to be the Dakota schools and UNI with a rotation of eastern schools in some fashion. But I'm tired of posting about the negatives of that.

As for the BS/MVFC matchups I wasn't trying to criticize them in any way, they were all great games. I'm saying if you are trying to gauge one conference vs the other that's something that has to be taken into account and that discounting playoff results as if they aren't relevant to the discussion isn't the way to go either, it does matter.

I think it also need to be mentioned that I don't think anybody thinks that UND is an awful team when they say they will have a tough time finding wins when they switch over. Just look at what happened to the other Dakota schools when they entered. NDSU went from a 10-1 season the year prior to a 6-5 year followed by 3-8. USD has yet to have more than three conference wins in a season. SDSU was the only one to stay even with what they were before entering. Now UND has been trending upwards, so it's possible they will be successful as hell their first season, but there's plenty of evidence to show it won't be smooth sailing right away.


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[70MilesFromCanada]

Well the Valley already has come out and said the schedule will be based off of geography, so that's not terribly hard to figure it's going to be the Dakota schools and UNI with a rotation of eastern schools in some fashion. But I'm tired of posting about the negatives of that.

As for the BS/MVFC matchups I wasn't trying to criticize them in any way, they were all great games. I'm saying if you are trying to gauge one conference vs the other that's something that has to be taken into account and that discounting playoff results as if they aren't relevant to the discussion isn't the way to go either, it does matter.

I think it also need to be mentioned that I don't think anybody thinks that UND is an awful team when they say they will have a tough time finding wins when they switch over. Just look at what happened to the other Dakota schools when they entered. NDSU went from a 10-1 season the year prior to a 6-5 year followed by 3-8. USD has yet to have more than three conference wins in a season. SDSU was the only one to stay even with what they were before entering. Now UND has been trending upwards, so it's possible they will be successful as hell their first season, but there's plenty of evidence to show it won't be smooth sailing right away.


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Don't disagree. Nothing will be handed to UND. I think they can play a good MV-style game. Yesterday's recruiting class will be upperclassmen in 2020!

[clenz]

Yo, abc123. I get it. You're trying to send me a PM and my inbox is full. Stop trying to send it. I think I have 7 e-mail alerts that you're trying to send me a PM from within an hour of each other (8:05, 8:08, 8:13. 8:18, 8:27, 8:49, 9:07). Literally nothing can be that important, unless it's you saying you have my family and you're holding them hostage. Even at that, if you found my family you would have a better way to get a hold of me than a PM on AGS.

Chill. I'll get my inbox cleaned up, just give me a bit.

[clenz]

Right, my inbox is now cleared...mostly. I have room for 48 messages right now. Feel free to spam away

EDIT 2 minutes later:

That was impossibly fast. I wonder if AGS just kept trying to send it and once it cleared it went through?

[semobison]

Sorry,I'm not trying to compare BS vs everyone. I'm just pointing out how the BS actually did vs the MV in 2016. This in regards to UND joining the MV. I'm not trying to ignore the BS playoffs results but (except for the YSU/EWU game) they are not relevant to the point I'm trying to make that; in 2016 the BS and MV head-to-head, played to a draw.

The BSC had one good win against the Valley when Poly beat SDSU. I watched the game and it was a convincing win for Poly. They ended up folding when it mattered. Thumper is right though. What happens in the playoffs is what really matters and is not only relevant but a true measuring stick of conference strength. Weber St way back in 08 was the last BSC team not in the state of Washington or Montana to win an FCS playoff game. (Poly won a playoff game as a member of the Great West) The Valley has had 6 teams win playoff games since 2011 including Indiana State! The Valley has had 3 different teams in the finals in three years! Back in Sept when BS fans were all giddy about playing the Valley to a draw I said the same thing. Let's see what happens in the playoffs. Yup, another ugly showing for the BSC.....That being said...I think Bubba has UND headed in the right direction and they are fortunate to get into the MVFC....Just don't try to tell me the BSC is on par with the MVFC because of a few games last September!

[F'N Hawks]

Right, my inbox is now cleared...mostly. I have room for 48 messages right now. Feel free to spam away

EDIT 2 minutes later:

That was impossibly fast. I wonder if AGS just kept trying to send it and once it cleared it went through?

You're really popular. Bask in the notoriety. xdrunkyx

[Bisonator]

Right, my inbox is now cleared...mostly. I have room for 48 messages right now. Feel free to spam away

EDIT 2 minutes later:

That was impossibly fast. I wonder if AGS just kept trying to send it and once it cleared it went through?
Nice to see you're figuring out this technology thingy.xlolx

[Yote 53]

Well the Valley already has come out and said the schedule will be based off of geography, so that's not terribly hard to figure it's going to be the Dakota schools and UNI with a rotation of eastern schools in some fashion. But I'm tired of posting about the negatives of that.

As for the BS/MVFC matchups I wasn't trying to criticize them in any way, they were all great games. I'm saying if you are trying to gauge one conference vs the other that's something that has to be taken into account and that discounting playoff results as if they aren't relevant to the discussion isn't the way to go either, it does matter.

I think it also need to be mentioned that I don't think anybody thinks that UND is an awful team when they say they will have a tough time finding wins when they switch over. Just look at what happened to the other Dakota schools when they entered. NDSU went from a 10-1 season the year prior to a 6-5 year followed by 3-8. USD has yet to have more than three conference wins in a season. SDSU was the only one to stay even with what they were before entering. Now UND has been trending upwards, so it's possible they will be successful as hell their first season, but there's plenty of evidence to show it won't be smooth sailing right away.


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By geography or is it going to be the MFVC COLA Division and the MVFC No-COLA division.

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
UNI

All COLA schools. The West is going to be a bloodbath of a grind.

[clenz]

By geography or is it going to be the MFVC COLA Division and the MVFC No-COLA division.

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
UNI

All COLA schools. The West is going to be a bloodbath of a grind.
I've got a sneaking suspicion (I know I'll be wrong) that UNI is going to be stuck in the middle AKA "in both divisions". There's going to be one school that it's going to happen too. It's going to be UNI, MSU or YSU. Why one of those?

YSU and MSU are a flight no matter what and are geographic fringe schools. Thus, them floating between the two is "even". HOWEVER, being that they are the outliers it's possible they are left in the east and the west.

UNI makes sense because they are a bus trip for the same number of schools in the east and west. UNI is the geographic center. They can play both sides with equal costs associated to travel.

[F'N Hawks]

Everyone has to fly to Youngstown and 9 teams (SIU) have to fly to Springfield? Do I have that correct?

[dewey]

I am not sure if this has been posted or not but it appears that NDSU president Dean Bresciani supported the Summit League and the MVFC adding UND.

http://www.inforum.com/sports/4207085-ndsu-president-through-emails-showed-support-unds-move-summit-mvfc-conferences

Dewey

[clenz]

Everyone has to fly to Youngstown and 9 teams (SIU) have to fly to Springfield? Do I have that correct?
I'm guessing SIU may fly to MSU. The drive is 5 hours and detours up to almost St Louis or down to almost Arkansas to get around the state/national parks.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Springfield,+MO/Carbondale,+IL/@37.3848655,-92.3832224,8z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x87cf62f745c8983f:0x6bf d6cb31e690da0!2m2!1d-93.2922989!2d37.2089572!1m5!1m1!1s0x88770ea52b6556 73:0xfe646bd10fcf17b3!2m2!1d-89.2167501!2d37.7272727

Or, they could fly right into Springfield.

4-4.5 hours seems to be the cut for driving. It's why I think UNI may actually fly to Sioux Falls, stay in Sioux Falls, and bus to Brookings. They may bus the full route Friday, and I know we used to a decade ago. I'm not sure that's the case anymore.

The "everyone is a flight" thing is why it might be MSU that gets left as the go between. It would make sense, if it's about travel costs, to have UNI be the middle.

Bus to:
WIU
ISUr
USD
SDSU

Fly everywhere else.

[GodHelpTheBears]

I'm guessing SIU may fly to MSU. The drive is 5 hours and detours up to almost St Louis or down to almost Arkansas to get around the state/national parks.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Springfield,+MO/Carbondale,+IL/@37.3848655,-92.3832224,8z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x87cf62f745c8983f:0x6bf d6cb31e690da0!2m2!1d-93.2922989!2d37.2089572!1m5!1m1!1s0x88770ea52b6556 73:0xfe646bd10fcf17b3!2m2!1d-89.2167501!2d37.7272727

Or, they could fly right into Springfield.

4-4.5 hours seems to be the cut for driving. It's why I think UNI may actually fly to Sioux Falls, stay in Sioux Falls, and bus to Brookings. They may bus the full route Friday, and I know we used to a decade ago. I'm not sure that's the case anymore.

The "everyone is a flight" thing is why it might be MSU that gets left as the go between. It would make sense, if it's about travel costs, to have UNI be the middle.

Bus to:
WIU
ISUr
USD
SDSU

Fly everywhere else.


I keep seeing good reasons to cut our program, and not a lot of equally good reasons to keep it.

[cx500d]

I will comment that, other than increasing the possibility that more teams won't play each other every year (or more), we don't know what the schedule for 2020 will be yet. (Does anyone know how far in advance the MV schedule is done? i.e. Is the 2019 schedule out yet?)

As far as playing MV teams that didn't make the playoffs; I don't think that makes them bad teams. Others have stated that you can get beat up playing a typical MV schedule even if you win. Some of the BS/MV games were pretty good matchups. About all you can hope for when schedules for OOC games are set well in advance.

So what you are saying is bsc matches up well with mvfc teams that don't make the playoffs. Got it.


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[70MilesFromCanada]

So what you are saying is bsc matches up well with mvfc teams that don't make the playoffs. Got it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not at all what I'm saying.

xbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangx

It's not the fault of the BS that a particular MV team doesn't make the playoffs since they play most games in conference.
Even those that picked on UNI as being bad should remember they were predicted to finish 2nd in the MV and they actually tied for 4th.
I'm saying, based on actual results, that the BS and MV played each other pretty well in 2016. Several OT and close games.
I went back and compared the pre-season rankings in each league vs how they actually finished.
I was amazed at how close the MV results were compared to predicted. Either the MV is so stratified that a monkey could pick it right, or the media really knows their stuff. The BS final standing were really different from the pre-season.

I did take a quick look back at 2015 and the MV kicked the BS butt big time. I think the BS only won one game.
I make no predictions or comments on the relative BS vs MV strength long-term going forward.

xdontknowxxdontknowxxdontknowxxdontknowxxdontknowx

[centennial]

Not at all what I'm saying.

xbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangx

It's not the fault of the BS that a particular MV team doesn't make the playoffs since they play most games in conference.
Even those that picked on UNI as being bad should remember they were predicted to finish 2nd in the MV and they actually tied for 4th.
I'm saying, based on actual results, that the BS and MV played each other pretty well in 2016. Several OT and close games.
I went back and compared the pre-season rankings in each league vs how they actually finished.
I was amazed at how close the MV results were compared to predicted. Either the MV is so stratified that a monkey could pick it right, or the media really knows their stuff. The BS final standing were really different from the pre-season.

I did take a quick look back at 2015 and the MV kicked the BS butt big time. I think the BS only won one game.
I make no predictions or comments on the relative BS vs MV strength long-term going forward.

xdontknowxxdontknowxxdontknowxxdontknowxxdontknowx

Have you ever considered your logic is flawed?
EWU(1 BS) lost to NDSU(1 MVFC) and YSU (3 MVFC)
UNI(5 MVFC) lost to EWU (1 BS) and Montana (8 BS)
SDSU(2 MVFC) lost to Cal Poly(4 BS)
SD(7 MVFC) lost to ND(2 BS)

There are a lot of close games here- NDSU vs EWU, EWU vs YSU, UNI vs Montana, UNI vs EWU, SD vs ND
The only good win for the BS is SDSU. Good wins for the valley are beating EWU twice. ND almost lost to SD, UNI could have easily won it's 2 games too. NDSU could've lost to EWU. The only thing shown here that EWU and North Dakota almost lost their games to the middle/lower valley.

These leagues are NOT similar. Yes, EWU is a good team but after than there is a huge drop. ND which is 1st/2nd lost to Richmond, the same Richmond that got blanked by EWU. Weber State got blasted by Chatt. Cal Poly got blasted by a freaking Pioneer team.

[70MilesFromCanada]

Just to review:
A sampling of the comments I got when I posted that (factually) the BS and MV were 4-4 head to head in 2016.

Sagarin has UND rated lower than 5 MVFC teams.
How many playoff wins did the Big Sky have?
What was the BSC record in the playoffs?
The last time a BSC team not named EWU or Montana won a playoff game was MSU in 2011!
You are trying to compare conference strength.
What happens in the playoffs is what really matters and is not only relevant but a true measuring stick of conference strength.
Just don't try to tell me the BSC is on par with the MVFC because of a few games last September!
So what you are saying is bsc matches up well with mvfc teams that don't make the playoffs.
Have you ever considered your logic is flawed?
These leagues are NOT similar.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps some were surprised the BS did that well.
I did not state that the BS was better than MV.
I never tried to predict how UND will do in the MV.
I actually pointed out that MV crushed the BS head-to-head in 2015.

Finally, I gotta quote this post from May 13, 2014:


Re: UND announces football schedule from 2016-2019

Where is UND's football team going to be when we play in 2016?
Will you guys still be building?
I'm certain we'll be a playoff caliber team by then, maybe take our first game in Grand Forks in a very long time.

I think this a prime example of the danger of trying to predict the future.

Enjoy SBLI

xhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayx

[centennial]

Just to review:

I did not state that the BS was better than MV.
I never tried to predict how UND will do in the MV.
I actually pointed out that MV crushed the BS head-to-head in 2015.


What is the point you are making anyway? As things stand I don't see UND making the playoffs in either Football and Basketball in the MVFC/Summit. Of course things will change but UND has not demonstrated that it is going to do much better. Is FCOA coming in at UND? Maybe that will make a difference in football.

Football will start needing more depth, MVFC is a deeper league with almost no gimmes. Summit is also significantly better than the Big Sky in MBB.

[70MilesFromCanada]

What is the point you are making anyway? As things stand I don't see UND making the playoffs in either Football and Basketball in the MVFC/Summit. Of course things will change but UND has not demonstrated that it is going to do much better. Is FCOA coming in at UND? Maybe that will make a difference in football.

Football will start needing more depth, MVFC is a deeper league with almost no gimmes. Summit is also significantly better than the Big Sky in MBB.

I suppose my semi-smack point is MV had a bad football year. No NC. Only .500 with BS. Seems half the league are perpetual losers/bottom feeders. The other half complain they beat each other up. Discounting early season OC games when the teams are not yet affected by lots of injuries. I gotta get it out of my system before 2020.

Haven't followed UND BB for awhile so nothing to add there.

[POD Knows]

I suppose my semi-smack point is MV had a bad football year. No NC. Only .500 with BS. Seems half the league are perpetual losers/bottom feeders. The other half complain they beat each other up. Discounting early season OC games when the teams are not yet affected by lots of injuries. I gotta get it out of my system before 2020.

Haven't followed UND BB for awhile so nothing to add there.

Yea, one of those bottom feeders beat UND by million in football a couple years ago.

[70MilesFromCanada]

Yea, one of those bottom feeders beat UND by million in football a couple years ago.

Hey it was only 38-0 and Missouri State was not last in the MV that year.

[mmiller_34]

Hey it was only 38-0 and Missouri State was not last in the MV that year.

They weren't good.

[POD Knows]

They weren't good.

They were at least 38 points better than UND

[F'N Hawks]

In 2020 we will definitely settle this...And that 2014 result against MSU should be play a big part.

Cannot wait.

[BisonFan02]

In 2020 we will definitely settle this...And that 2014 result against MSU should be play a big part.

Cannot wait.

Its the next big thing to look forward to with your football team...other than maybe a 2019 matchup with NDSU again.

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

[QUOTE=dewey;2454236]I am not sure if this has been posted or not but it appears that NDSU president Dean Bresciani supported the Summit League and the MVFC adding UND.

http://www.inforum.com/sports/4207085-ndsu-president-through-emails-showed-support-unds-move-summit-mvfc-conferences

Dewey[/QUOTE Pres. Bresciani had to support UND's moves, because if he didn't, he could of hurt NDSU's finical support from the state. A lot must of went on behind the scenes to get the MVFC (already with 10 teams) to switch it's stance from last fall, Summet was all for it.

[SDFS]

They weren't good.

And nobody was saying UND was.... A coaching change and going from the spread to a power running game took most of the season for the team to adjust. According many on this board it is a barometer for how UND will do in the MVFC - AGS logic at its best xdrunkyx

[GodHelpTheBears]

Hey it was only 38-0 and Missouri State was not last in the MV that year.


True, we only lost to NDSU by 35 that year.

[F'N Hawks]

True, we only lost to NDSU by 35 that year.

More proof of UND's future struggle come 2020.

[Bison56]

More proof of UND's future struggle come 2020.

Who?

[GodHelpTheBears]

Who?

Notre Dame. They turned down the Big Ten and ACC for a real football conference. xnodx

[semobison]

I suppose my semi-smack point is MV had a bad football year. No NC. Only .500 with BS. Seems half the league are perpetual losers/bottom feeders. The other half complain they beat each other up. Discounting early season OC games when the teams are not yet affected by lots of injuries. I gotta get it out of my system before 2020.

Haven't followed UND BB for awhile so nothing to add there.

Yup, the MVFC had a tough year. No NC, only one team in the finals, only two in the semi's and only 3 in the quarters.
If you bring up those games that happened in Sept again.... People don't remember what teams did in September. It's what you do in late November and December that counts.....Do you get it yet?

[70MilesFromCanada]

Yup, the MVFC had a tough year. No NC, only one team in the finals, only two in the semi's and only 3 in the quarters.
If you bring up those games that happened in Sept again.... People don't remember what teams did in September. It's what you do in late November and December that counts.....Do you get it yet?

Seems you MV (mostlyBison) supporters are living in a alt-news world. It's a FACT that the BS was 4-4 vs the MV in 2016. That's the point. No assumptions needed. A good year for the BS. I have stated they were crushed by the MV in 2015. Constantly changing the subject to: "We're better cause our playoff record is better" is not the point. The YSU 2 point win vs EWU in the playoffs is included in the 4-4 record. It's a one year snapshot. No claims about superiority. I guess the "pittiful" 4-4 results really torqued you guys.

[AmsterBison]

I suppose my semi-smack point is MV had a bad football year. No NC. Only .500 with BS. Seems half the league are perpetual losers/bottom feeders. The other half complain they beat each other up. Discounting early season OC games when the teams are not yet affected by lots of injuries. I gotta get it out of my system before 2020.

Haven't followed UND BB for awhile so nothing to add there.

Apparently, you haven't been following FCS football either, but just to make sure I understand, are you saying that half the MVFC teams are perpetual losers/bottom feeders? Name them - I'll even give you a list:

Illinois State (ISU-Red)
Indiana State (ISU-Blue)
Missouri State
North Dakota State
Northern Iowa
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Youngstown State

The current membership is 105-63 in the playoffs.

[clenz]

Apparently, you haven't been following FCS football either, but just to make sure I understand, are you saying that half the MVFC teams are perpetual losers/bottom feeders? Name them - I'll even give you a list:

Illinois State (ISU-Red)
Indiana State (ISU-Blue)
Missouri State
North Dakota State
Northern Iowa
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Youngstown State

The current membership is 105-63 in the playoffs.
ISUb
MSU
USD
1/2 credit for WIU and SIU

That's considering only conference standings though. All of those teams fair pretty damn well outside of the MVFC against FCS opponents.

[AmsterBison]

ISUb
MSU
USD
1/2 credit for WIU and SIU

That's considering only conference standings though. All of those teams fair pretty damn well outside of the MVFC against FCS opponents.

ISU-B and WIU have won playoff games very recently. All except SIU have beaten NDSU since NDSU started its playoff run too. And, SIU still manages to have a national championship trophy. Heck even USD had to blow a 17-pt 4th quarter lead at UND's quonset hut last year to find a way to lose.

UND calling any MVFC team "perpetual losers" is preposterous.

[clenz]

ISU-B and WIU have won playoff games very recently. All except SIU have beaten NDSU since NDSU started its playoff run too. And, SIU still manages to have a national championship trophy. Heck even USD had to blow a 17-pt 4th quarter lead at UND's quonset hut last year to find a way to lose.

UND calling any MVFC team "perpetual losers" is preposterous.
I was simply going with "Those teams typically make up the bottom half of the conference" recently.

WIU has actually been pretty good, and real competitive.
ISUb has been much better
SIU would be great in the Big Sky
USD half showed signs of life last year
MSU is...well...they suck

There is only 1 team that is truly horrid in the conference at this moment.

[AmsterBison]

I was simply going with "Those teams typically make up the bottom half of the conference" recently.


And I was simply going with the "He can't do that to our pledges! Only we can do that to our pledges!" defense. :)

[Milkman]

And I was simply going with the "He can't do that to our pledges! Only we can do that to our pledges!" defense. :)So wait UND is gonna be a pledge in 2020? So do we get to pick a nickname for them? Hmm picking a nickname for UND...what could go wrong?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RCfUDQ8twvI/hqdefault.jpg

Also notice any great group needs to be lead by someone in Bison horns.

[dbackjon]

"Your MVFC Pledge Name is Flounder"

[Sycamore62]

"Your MVFC Pledge Name is Flounder"
why Flounder?

[Bisonoline]

"Your MVFC Pledge Name is Flounder"

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r202/plnwtf/-well-played-sir-well-played-indeed.jpg (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/plnwtf/media/-well-played-sir-well-played-indeed.jpg.html)

Very appropriate I will also add!!!

[geaux_sioux]

So wait UND is gonna be a pledge in 2020? So do we get to pick a nickname for them? Hmm picking a nickname for UND...what could go wrong?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RCfUDQ8twvI/hqdefault.jpg

Also notice any great group needs to be lead by someone in Bison horns.
How about ass juice?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUcC7_MoISQ

[dbackjon]

why Flounder?


Answer 1: "Belch" "WHY NOT"


Answer 2: Because it is what you will do in the MVFC

- - - Updated - - -


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r202/plnwtf/-well-played-sir-well-played-indeed.jpg (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/plnwtf/media/-well-played-sir-well-played-indeed.jpg.html)

Very appropriate I will also add!!!


The double meaning is what I was going for...

[youcanbankit]

It would definately strengthen the competition and conference and may allow a move to possible FBS Bowl eligibility. You think?

[Bisonoline]

Answer 1: "Belch" "WHY NOT"


Answer 2: Because it is what you will do in the MVFC


- - - Updated - - -




The double meaning is what I was going for...

Thats why I didnt want to steal your thunder.:D

[70MilesFromCanada]

ISUb
MSU
USD
1/2 credit for WIU and SIU

That's considering only conference standings though. All of those teams fair pretty damn well outside of the MVFC against FCS opponents.

I agree. Was never trying to compare anyone but BS vs MV.
Certainly not the old "but this is how they did in the playoffs" refrain I seem to get.
The MV seems very stratified within itself

[mmiller_34]

It would definately strengthen the competition and conference and may allow a move to possible FBS Bowl eligibility. You think?

That is not how that works.

Conferences can't move FBS. Plus, even if they could, it would be a rotten move for the MVFC. FBS is a mess.

[Thumper 76]

and conference and may allow a move to possible FBS Bowl eligibility. You think?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170209/3de11426f7877b8f555b16dc9abc4ed4.jpg

Edit: Also, the MVFC didn't need more strength or competition. That's just the truth. Reality is it would likely be better for the league to have added a bottom feeder to help inflate the records of the top teams.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mmiller_34]

inflate the records of the top teams.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thats what OOC games are for thump!

[F'N Hawks]

Reality is it would likely be better for the league to have added a bottom feeder to help inflate the records of the top teams.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's what they did.

[ST_Lawson]

Thats what OOC games are for thump!

Wait just a minute....I think we might be doing it all wrong then.

[mmiller_34]

Wait just a minute....I think we might be doing it all wrong then.

Eh.. maybe. Yeah. I'm operating under alternative facts.

[Thumper 76]

Wait just a minute....I think we might be doing it all wrong then.

Well, considering you have 4 home games next season......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GodHelpTheBears]

I agree. Was never trying to compare anyone but BS vs MV.
Certainly not the old "but this is how they did in the playoffs" refrain I seem to get.
The MV seems very stratified within itself

Pretty much, although both Indiana State and ourselves did it to ourselves by letting our programs sit without investment for decades. It's a terrible way to build a football program, but that never was a priority at SMS/MSU...

[centennial]

Pretty much, although both Indiana State and ourselves did it to ourselves by letting our programs sit without investment for decades. It's a terrible way to build a football program, but that never was a priority at SMS/MSU...

Maybe Missouri State should move to the ovc.

[cx500d]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170209/3de11426f7877b8f555b16dc9abc4ed4.jpg

Edit: Also, the MVFC didn't need more strength or competition. That's just the truth. Reality is it would likely be better for the league to have added a bottom feeder to help inflate the records of the top teams.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or join the Southland Conference.

[GodHelpTheBears]

Maybe Missouri State should move to the ovc.

Will never happen, we don't have a sack and two nuts between everybody running our athletic department to ever willingly play SEMO in football again.

[GodHelpTheBears]

Or join the Southland Conference.

Hell, UCA is the closest thing we have to a rival. Our last game in Conway was one of the highlights of my fandom.

Still won't happen, though. Why would Southland take our football only? That's like going to a breakfast buffet and only eating a grapefruit.

[cx500d]

Hell, UCA is the closest thing we have to a rival. Our last game in Conway was one of the highlights of my fandom.

Still won't happen, though. Why would Southland take our football only? That's like going to a breakfast buffet and only eating a grapefruit.

Southland loves cupcakes.

[GodHelpTheBears]

Southland loves cupcakes.

We couldn't get $100,000 together to buy Allen out before his last year. We need to go non-scholarship or cut.

[70MilesFromCanada]

So the UND tally for 2016-17 is BS MBB champs, WBB co-champs, WVB champs, and MFB co-champs. Definitely time to leave.

[POD Knows]

So the UND tally for 2016-17 is BS MBB champs, WBB co-champs, WVB champs, and MFB co-champs. Definitely time to leave.

Yea, you will be longing for the 2016-2017 season in a few years.

[70MilesFromCanada]

But no! We gotta go for PLAYOFF wins then.

[clenz]

So the UND tally for 2016-17 is BS MBB champs, WBB co-champs, WVB champs, and MFB co-champs. Definitely time to leave.
Football - Big Sky was 4th rated conference, MVFC 1st. Would have been 6th in MVFC based on computer standings/sims. Didn't play EWU or Montana
MBB - Big Sky is 28th rated conference out of 32. Finished a head of only Big West, Northwest, SWAC and MEAC. Your RPI ranks bottom half of the Summit
WBB - Big Sky is 22nd rated conference. Summit is 11th. Same as MBB - the RPI would be bottom half
VB - Big Sky is actually a better conference and UND had the RPI highest of both conferences.


UND fans may not want to admit it, but it's a MASSIVE jump from the Big Sky to the Summit in terms of night and and night out competition. One off games don't mean a ton when it comes too "Can we compete in this conference". The daily/nightly grind makes a ton of difference.

[F'N Hawks]

Football - Big Sky was 4th rated conference, MVFC 1st. Would have been 6th in MVFC based on computer standings/sims. Didn't play EWU or Montana
MBB - Big Sky is 28th rated conference out of 32. Finished a head of only Big West, Northwest, SWAC and MEAC. Your RPI ranks bottom half of the Summit
WBB - Big Sky is 22nd rated conference. Summit is 11th. Same as MBB - the RPI would be bottom half
VB - Big Sky is actually a better conference and UND had the RPI highest of both conferences.


UND fans may not want to admit it, but it's a MASSIVE jump from the Big Sky to the Summit in terms of night and and night out competition. One off games don't mean a ton when it comes too "Can we compete in this conference". The daily/nightly grind makes a ton of difference.

All they can do right now is win every major championship of the conference they are in. Every school in the country would be proud of that accomplishment.

Will worry about Summit/Valley in a couple years.

Now I hope they don't lose in the first round of their conference tourney. That would be embarrassing.

[POD Knows]

All they can do right now is win every major championship of the conference they are in. Every school in the country would be proud of that accomplishment.

Will worry about Summit/Valley in a couple years.

Now I hope they don't lose in the first round of their conference tourney. That would be embarrassing. Yes, it is embarrassing.

[F'N Hawks]

Yes, it is embarrassing.

😁

UND better at least make the championship game or it will be a big-time chokejob. Jones doesn't instill confidence in me.

[BisonFan02]

Yes, it is embarrassing.

It's the biggest thing to happen to UND athletics this year.

[geaux_sioux]

None of the regular success means a thing if they don't dance and make noise. If they choke like the football team then it's all for not.

[SDFS]

Football - Big Sky was 4th rated conference, MVFC 1st. Would have been 6th in MVFC based on computer standings/sims. Didn't play EWU or Montana
MBB - Big Sky is 28th rated conference out of 32. Finished a head of only Big West, Northwest, SWAC and MEAC. Your RPI ranks bottom half of the Summit
WBB - Big Sky is 22nd rated conference. Summit is 11th. Same as MBB - the RPI would be bottom half
VB - Big Sky is actually a better conference and UND had the RPI highest of both conferences.


UND fans may not want to admit it, but it's a MASSIVE jump from the Big Sky to the Summit in terms of night and and night out competition. One off games don't mean a ton when it comes too "Can we compete in this conference". The daily/nightly grind makes a ton of difference.

Just watched the SDSU vs Denver game and I have to agree UND has no chance in the summit league. That PG for SDSU #50 is a baller. He would own Q or Geno no doubt. UND's only hope is the MVC takes USD/SDSU and NDSU after WSU leaves. Till then, I better brush up on hockey so I have something to watch in the winter and spring seasons.

[Hambone]

Football - Big Sky was 4th rated conference, MVFC 1st. Would have been 6th in MVFC based on computer standings/sims. Didn't play EWU or Montana
MBB - Big Sky is 28th rated conference out of 32. Finished a head of only Big West, Northwest, SWAC and MEAC. Your RPI ranks bottom half of the Summit
WBB - Big Sky is 22nd rated conference. Summit is 11th. Same as MBB - the RPI would be bottom half
VB - Big Sky is actually a better conference and UND had the RPI highest of both conferences.


UND fans may not want to admit it, but it's a MASSIVE jump from the Big Sky to the Summit in terms of night and and night out competition. One off games don't mean a ton when it comes too "Can we compete in this conference". The daily/nightly grind makes a ton of difference.

Maybe arguing semantics a little, but according to realtimerpi this morning UND would rank fifth in both MBB and WBB, which is technically top half (4 in front, 5 behind) xthumbsupx :p

However, I won't be one to say that they aren't a step up in terms of competition, as they do typically have a pretty good record. There also seems to be at least one Summit team in MBB that pulls of a pretty big win every year, and they all schedule some pretty good OOC games which helps to boost the rpi. I think UND should be pretty competitive in both when they come in, but we'll have to see.

[70MilesFromCanada]

Football - Big Sky was 4th rated conference, MVFC 1st. Would have been 6th in MVFC based on computer standings/sims. Didn't play EWU or Montana
MBB - Big Sky is 28th rated conference out of 32. Finished a head of only Big West, Northwest, SWAC and MEAC. Your RPI ranks bottom half of the Summit
WBB - Big Sky is 22nd rated conference. Summit is 11th. Same as MBB - the RPI would be bottom half
VB - Big Sky is actually a better conference and UND had the RPI highest of both conferences.


UND fans may not want to admit it, but it's a MASSIVE jump from the Big Sky to the Summit in terms of night and and night out competition. One off games don't mean a ton when it comes too "Can we compete in this conference". The daily/nightly grind makes a ton of difference.

Hey, we should be well rested for the "grind" due to the much easier travel schedule.

[POD Knows]

Hey, we should be well rested for the "grind" due to the much easier travel schedule.

Yea, when NDSU loses to UND twice in MBB, and this will happen, I wish I could blame travel.

[OverratedGriz]

The Griz could only dream of having an athletic department as good as UNDs. UND, a newcomer, was able to achieve a feat Montana, a founder of the Big Sky, is still searching for.

[F'N Hawks]

The Griz could only dream of having an athletic department as good as UNDs. UND, a newcomer, was able to achieve a feat Montana, a founder of the Big Sky, is still searching for.

Thank you for stopping by and contributing that to the forum.

[70MilesFromCanada]

So the UND tally for 2016-17 is BS MBB champs, WBB co-champs, WVB champs, and MFB co-champs. Definitely time to leave.

UND BIG SKY Champions "DANCE" Card

MFB: Dance Partner - Spiders (Richmond), Outcome - suffered severe spider bite, still trying to recover
WVB: Dance Partner - Gophers (Minnesota), Outcome - played in Gopher Hole (Minneapolis) vs #2 overall seed, got homered/hammered
WBB: Dance Partner - None, Outcome - did not get invited to the "Prom" (NCAA), did get invited to 9th grade dance (WNIT)
MBB: Dance Partner - Wildcats (Arizona), Outcome - TBD, got better seed than Summit League champ (SDSU)

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

Football - Big Sky was 4th rated conference, MVFC 1st. Would have been 6th in MVFC based on computer standings/sims. Didn't play EWU or Montana
MBB - Big Sky is 28th rated conference out of 32. Finished a head of only Big West, Northwest, SWAC and MEAC. Your RPI ranks bottom half of the Summit
WBB - Big Sky is 22nd rated conference. Summit is 11th. Same as MBB - the RPI would be bottom half
VB - Big Sky is actually a better conference and UND had the RPI highest of both conferences.


UND fans may not want to admit it, but it's a MASSIVE jump from the Big Sky to the Summit in terms of night and and night out competition. One off games don't mean a ton when it comes too "Can we compete in this conference". The daily/nightly grind makes a ton of difference.
In the West Regional the Hawks are 15th seed, SDSU is the 16th seed. Hope they can both compete on Thursday.

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

It's the biggest thing to happen to UND athletics this year.
UND won it's 8th Div I Natty in MH this year and hopefully the Hawks are going to Fargo for the NCAA west regional in a week and a half were they are the host team.

[jacksfan29]

Good for you, making it to the big boy tournament. We've been there a few times, 4 to be exact. We've also been to the big girls tournament 7 times. Since you are basically from Canada let me help you, that's 11 times an SDSU team has been to an NCAA tourney, in our 9 years of eligibility. The other Dakota schools have a combined 6 Men's and Women's, NDSU half of those 6. The reason people laugh at your school is your perceived greatness with no results to back you up. Do something other then talk.

SDSU have never walked into an NCAA tourney game and been embarrassed. We won't be this year either. UND will be, UA by 35. Welcome to big boy basketball.

[clenz]

In the West Regional the Hawks are 15th seed, SDSU is the 16th seed. Hope they can both compete on Thursday.

Congrats to the Big Sky regular and post season champ getting one seed line higher than the 4th place Summit team that is the worst team from the Summit to make the tournament in nearly a decade.

[70MilesFromCanada]

Congrats to the Big Sky regular and post season champ getting one seed line higher than the 4th place Summit team that is the worst team from the Summit to make the tournament in nearly a decade.

And that's our fault?

[70MilesFromCanada]

Good for you, making it to the big boy tournament. We've been there a few times, 4 to be exact. We've also been to the big girls tournament 7 times. Since you are basically from Canada let me help you, that's 11 times an SDSU team has been to an NCAA tourney, in our 9 years of eligibility. The other Dakota schools have a combined 6 Men's and Women's, NDSU half of those 6. The reason people laugh at your school is your perceived greatness with no results to back you up. Do something other then talk.

SDSU have never walked into an NCAA tourney game and been embarrassed. We won't be this year either. UND will be, UA by 35. Welcome to big boy basketball.

Hey, I am long time admirer of your BB programs (all the way back to D2/NC conf). Your women's teams are great. Men pretty good too. I'm not into predicting college BB but I enjoy it far more than the "professional" crap because it's kids playing for fun and there is always a chance for an upset. (UND women did make the tourney in 2014 and had a shot this year).

[F'N Hawks]

Congrats to the Big Sky regular and post season champ getting one seed line higher than the 4th place Summit team that is the worst team from the Summit to make the tournament in nearly a decade.


Thanks, appreciate it.

[F'N Hawks]

Good for you, making it to the big boy tournament. We've been there a few times, 4 to be exact. We've also been to the big girls tournament 7 times. Since you are basically from Canada let me help you, that's 11 times an SDSU team has been to an NCAA tourney, in our 9 years of eligibility. The other Dakota schools have a combined 6 Men's and Women's, NDSU half of those 6. The reason people laugh at your school is your perceived greatness with no results to back you up. Do something other then talk.

SDSU have never walked into an NCAA tourney game and been embarrassed. We won't be this year either. UND will be, UA by 35. Welcome to big boy basketball.

Congrats on all those hard fought losses.

[F'N Hawks]

One bid leagues: MVC, Summit and Big Sky. That 10 seed and 16 seed obviously impressed the hell out of the committee.

Nice work on your RPI Conference Rating, though. Maybe they will send out a ribbon or banner to hang.

[Bisonator]

And people wonder why we hate the Fawkers........

[F'N Hawks]

And people wonder why we hate the Fawkers........

Nobody wonders. Nobody wonders why we hate NDSU.........

[clenz]

One bid leagues: MVC, Summit and Big Sky. That 10 seed and 16 seed obviously impressed the hell out of the committee.

Nice work on your RPI Conference Rating, though. Maybe they will send out a ribbon or banner to hang.
The MVC was completely disrespected.

You think you're close to the Summit or MVC for level of play? Feel free to take a trip to Normal to play the Redbirds, who got ****ed over. Feel free to travel down to Wichita who got ****ed over just as hard

WSU is ranked in the top 25 and got a 10 seed. That's the definition of ****ed over.
Illinois State had an RPI of 33 (just one behind WSU). 26-6 (19-2) against an SOS of 124. Regular season MVC champion. Only 2 MVC losses were to WSU.

We know how UND does against UNI. This year was, by far and it's not close, the worst UNI team in 15-20 years and UND couldn't win. UND is something like 0-9 over the last 7 years against UNI. This was the first time the game was kept within 20. Last year it was 41 and the third string played the final 12 minutes. I'd love to see UND take on programs that aren't afraid to keep the foot on the gas the entire game, and doesn't have a HC that is a UND alum to take it easy. SDSU got beat by 28 by UNI this year. 22 by WSU (and that was the closest to pitty you'll get from WSU).

UND played an SOS of 304 and managed just 19 wins. You had just 2 non-Big Sky wins.

Regular season and post season champion and you get a 15.

[F'N Hawks]

The MVC was completely disrespected.

You think you're close to the Summit or MVC for level of play? Feel free to take a trip to Normal to play the Redbirds, who got ****ed over. Feel free to travel down to Wichita who got ****ed over just as hard

WSU is ranked in the top 25 and got a 10 seed. That's the definition of ****ed over.
Illinois State had an RPI of 33 (just one behind WSU). 26-6 (19-2) against an SOS of 124. Regular season MVC champion. Only 2 MVC losses were to WSU.

We know how UND does against UNI. This year was, by far and it's not close, the worst UNI team in 15-20 years and UND couldn't win. UND is something like 0-9 over the last 7 years against UNI. This was the first time the game was kept within 20. Last year it was 41 and the third string played the final 12 minutes. I'd love to see UND take on programs that aren't afraid to keep the foot on the gas the entire game, and doesn't have a HC that is a UND alum to take it easy. SDSU got beat by 28 by UNI this year. 22 by WSU (and that was the closest to pitty you'll get from WSU).

UND played an SOS of 304 and managed just 19 wins. You had just 2 non-Big Sky wins.

Regular season and post season champion and you get a 15.

LOL. Issues.

BTW, UNI was losing by four at halftime. The refs called 22 fouls on UND in the second half and UNI won by 8. Thanks for taking your foot off the gas, well, before the game even started, I guess.

[Bison56]

UND fan arrogance is second to none.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'll move this over to hoops area for you people.

[centennial]

How many of these teams is UND better than?

http://i.imgur.com/mwcdVZt.jpg

[clenz]

How many of these teams is UND better than?


I ran a few different sims I saved using a few different metrics and then reran all of them. Essentially, I have about a sample size of about 100 games for each of the double round robin games.

Based on that UND has about a 75% chance to finish betwen 7-11 and 9-9
There is about a 15% chance UND finishes 10-8 or better (>2% of it being 12+ wins)
10% chance of being 6-12 or worse

[FargoBison]

Over the past 5 years the Summit is 40-13 against the Big Sky...I won't even get into RPI because it is a similar ass kicking.

SDSU is a 16 seed but they were a mess with a new coach and a bunch of new players to start the season, then they started to click and got hot at the right time. When you are league like the Summit with no dominate team it is hardly a shock the team that got hot at the right time won the tournament.

[jacksfan29]

Congrats on finally getting to an NCAA tournament. My guess, after your move to the Summit we won't be seeing much of UND in post season play.


Congrats on all those hard fought losses.

[jacksfan29]

You may want to take a peek at the MVC tournament history. They've normally been a two bid league, should have been this year with ISUr. The BSC is a FB conference who just happen to play BB. I watched your championship game, holy crap, ORU could have won that game on athleticism alone. The Summit was down this year. Partly based on SDSU struggling to find an identity early in the year. Watch the SDSU v USD semi and ask yourself, where does UND fit in?

And disrespecting the MVC and their history makes me think, like most F'awker fans, you know hockey but don't know crap about basketball.


One bid leagues: MVC, Summit and Big Sky. That 10 seed and 16 seed obviously impressed the hell out of the committee.

Nice work on your RPI Conference Rating, though. Maybe they will send out a ribbon or banner to hang.

[centennial]

I ran a few different sims I saved using a few different metrics and then reran all of them. Essentially, I have about a sample size of about 100 games for each of the double round robin games.

Based on that UND has about a 75% chance to finish betwen 7-11 and 9-9
There is about a 15% chance UND finishes 10-8 or better (>2% of it being 12+ wins)
10% chance of being 6-12 or worse
They are really no better than IUPUI. All this **** talking for nothing. It would be like NDSU, out South Dakota pretending that they could win vs Wichita or Illinois State.

[FargoBison]

One bid leagues: MVC, Summit and Big Sky. That 10 seed and 16 seed obviously impressed the hell out of the committee.

Nice work on your RPI Conference Rating, though. Maybe they will send out a ribbon or banner to hang.

Stick to sports with pucks, this basketball thing is clearly too hard for you.

[POD Knows]

How many of these teams is UND better than?

http://i.imgur.com/mwcdVZt.jpg

At the end of the year?? NDSU for one.

[Thumper 76]

You may want to take a peek at the MVC tournament history. They've normally been a two bid league, should have been this year with ISUr. The BSC is a FB conference who just happen to play BB. I watched your championship game, holy crap, ORU could have won that game on athleticism alone. The Summit was down this year. Partly based on SDSU struggling to find an identity early in the year. Watch the SDSU v USD semi and ask yourself, where does UND fit in?

And disrespecting the MVC and their history makes me think, like most F'awker fans, you know hockey but don't know crap about basketball.

Um, the BSC isn't great at fb either TBH.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[centennial]

At the end of the year?? NDSU for one.
Burn. We really ended poorly.

[F'N Hawks]

We are talking about 2017, right? The MVC was a one-bid league, which I stated. At what point did I disrespect the "history of the MVC"? Read. Then re-read.

I wish UND would stay in the Big Sky. Easier path to the NCAA tourney. This is fun!

[F'N Hawks]

Congrats on finally getting to an NCAA tournament. My guess, after your move to the Summit we won't be seeing much of UND in post season play.

yeaaahhh! You know basketball.

[POD Knows]

Burn. We really ended poorly.Yep, and when you have to have a stupid tournament, the regular season really doesn't matter that much I guess, and then you get to go to SD so USD and SDSU get home games.

Sorry for the whine but it is whiny Monday but you need to play well when it matters and we sure as hell didn't.

Doesn't change the fact that UND sucks and always will.

[dbackjon]

The MVC was completely disrespected.

You think you're close to the Summit or MVC for level of play? Feel free to take a trip to Normal to play the Redbirds, who got ****ed over. Feel free to travel down to Wichita who got ****ed over just as hard

WSU is ranked in the top 25 and got a 10 seed. That's the definition of ****ed over.
Illinois State had an RPI of 33 (just one behind WSU). 26-6 (19-2) against an SOS of 124. Regular season MVC champion. Only 2 MVC losses were to WSU.

We know how UND does against UNI. This year was, by far and it's not close, the worst UNI team in 15-20 years and UND couldn't win. UND is something like 0-9 over the last 7 years against UNI. This was the first time the game was kept within 20. Last year it was 41 and the third string played the final 12 minutes. I'd love to see UND take on programs that aren't afraid to keep the foot on the gas the entire game, and doesn't have a HC that is a UND alum to take it easy. SDSU got beat by 28 by UNI this year. 22 by WSU (and that was the closest to pitty you'll get from WSU).

UND played an SOS of 304 and managed just 19 wins. You had just 2 non-Big Sky wins.

Regular season and post season champion and you get a 15.

Agreed the MVC got screwed with no lube.

Wichita should have been at worst a 6/7 seed. Illinois State deserved to be in the tournament as well.

[SDFS]

Good for you, making it to the big boy tournament. We've been there a few times, 4 to be exact. We've also been to the big girls tournament 7 times. Since you are basically from Canada let me help you, that's 11 times an SDSU team has been to an NCAA tourney, in our 9 years of eligibility. The other Dakota schools have a combined 6 Men's and Women's, NDSU half of those 6. The reason people laugh at your school is your perceived greatness with no results to back you up. Do something other then talk.

SDSU have never walked into an NCAA tourney game and been embarrassed. We won't be this year either. UND will be, UA by 35. Welcome to big boy basketball.

Dam - that escalated quickly!!

[FargoBison]

We are talking about 2017, right? The MVC was a one-bid league, which I stated. At what point did I disrespect the "history of the MVC"? Read. Then re-read.

I wish UND would stay in the Big Sky. Easier path to the NCAA tourney. This is fun!

Easier path may seem great but once you get there, you will want more the next time. The Summit helped to prepare NDSU to win a game. If you want to get some real exposure in the tournament, it comes with winning. One run to the sweet 16 would dwarf every hockey title UND has ever won when it comes to exposure.

While the MVC is a one bid league, Wichita is a 10 seed and ISUR was one of the last teams out. Comparing conferences by the # of bids they get is dumb. The MVC should be a two bid league but with the way the committee evaluates teams, smaller schools are put in a major disadvantage. ISUR loses on the road to a few team with RPI's over 100 and gets crushed for it. If schools like Marquette or USC had to play a bunch of 100-200 RPI teams on the road they would take losses as well but since for the most part they play those teams in buy games at home, they are sheltered from it and then get the bonus of beefing up their resume with quality home games. A luxury that MVC schools do not have, nobody from a major conference wants to go to Cedar Falls or Normal or Wichita for non-conference games. They know they'll likely go home with a loss.

[clenz]

Easier path may seem great but once you get there, you will want more the next time. The Summit helped to prepare NDSU to win a game. If you want to get some real exposure in the tournament, it comes with winning. One run to the sweet 16 would dwarf every hockey title UND has ever won when it comes to exposure.

While the MVC is a one bid league, Wichita is a 10 seed and ISUR was one of the last teams out. Comparing conferences by the # of bids they get is dumb. The MVC should be a two bid league but with the way the committee evaluates teams, smaller schools are put in a major disadvantage. ISUR loses on the road to a few team with RPI's over 100 and gets crushed for it. If schools like Marquette or USC had to play a bunch of 100-200 RPI teams on the road they would take losses as well but since for the most part they play those teams in buy games at home, they are sheltered from it and then get the bonus of beefing up their resume with quality home games. A luxury that MVC schools do not have, nobody from a major conference wants to go to Cedar Falls or Normal or Wichita for non-conference games. They know they'll likely go home with a loss.

Over the last 20 years the MVC has only been able to average .59 home games against the P5 per year. The MVC has won over 60% of said games

It's a no won situation for us

The top half of the MVC is too good for teams to be willing to come to us. Playing on the road in CBB results in a loss something like 70% of the time so we go in the road and lose. We play and beat them on a neutral floor and by the time NCAAs roll around the excuse is that "Well, the P5 would have won at home and the game was in November or December so it doesn't matter anymore".

Yet the A10 may be the only non power basketball conference with more different members to have made the S16. The MVC has been a multi bid league about 85% of the last two decades. It's down right now but still significantly better than pretty much every MM conference...at least the top. The tool 4 recently? Well...they e been Big Sky teams

[SDFS]

Easier path may seem great but once you get there, you will want more the next time. The Summit helped to prepare NDSU to win a game. If you want to get some real exposure in the tournament, it comes with winning. One run to the sweet 16 would dwarf every hockey title UND has ever won when it comes to exposure.


Come on.... seriously, you guys crushed the Summit that year. You only had two losses all year in conference (FW and Denver). Then FW pushed you a little in the tournament title game. But, it's the nonconference schedule that changed your season:

1 point loss to Southern Mississippi
13 point loss to Saint Mary's
17 point loss to #2 Ohio St

and of course the 18 point loss in Grand Forks to lowly UND.

[Hammersmith]

MBB: Dance Partner - Wildcats (Arizona), Outcome - TBD, got better seed than Summit League champ (SDSU)

Just an FYI:

UND was the last 15-seed and SDSU was the second 16-seed. That means the NCAA selection committee believed there was a grand total of one team(Texas Southern) between the best Big Sky team and the 4th or 5th best Summit team(looking at the total season). Had USD or NDSU won the Summit(maybe even IPFW), UND would have been the top 16 and the Summit champ would have been a low-14 or high-15.

Just saying that a light shot or two at the Summit isn't out of line, but I wouldn't let it go to my head too much.

[FargoBison]

Come on.... seriously, you guys crushed the Summit that year. You only had two losses all year in conference (FW and Denver). Then FW pushed you a little in the tournament title game. But, it's the nonconference schedule that changed your season:

1 point loss to Southern Mississippi
13 point loss to Saint Mary's
17 point loss to #2 Ohio St

and of course the 18 point loss in Grand Forks to lowly UND.

The big thing that motivated that team was losing to a very good SDSU team in the Summit title game the season before. That team had been in battles in conference play in previous seasons, which really helped in taking on a very difficult non-conference schedule.

The Summit was decent that year as well. IPFW, SDSU and Denver were all solid. Omaha was decent, pretty sure they pummeled UND. It was a battle getting past IPFW in the title game.

[70MilesFromCanada]

Just an FYI:

UND was the last 15-seed and SDSU was the second 16-seed. That means the NCAA selection committee believed there was a grand total of one team(Texas Southern) between the best Big Sky team and the 4th or 5th best Summit team(looking at the total season). Had USD or NDSU won the Summit(maybe even IPFW), UND would have been the top 16 and the Summit champ would have been a low-14 or high-15.

Just saying that a light shot or two at the Summit isn't out of line, but I wouldn't let it go to my head too much.

I fully expect reality later this week. In the mean time it's all fun.

[abc123]

I ran a few different sims I saved using a few different metrics and then reran all of them. Essentially, I have about a sample size of about 100 games for each of the double round robin games.

Based on that UND has about a 75% chance to finish betwen 7-11 and 9-9
There is about a 15% chance UND finishes 10-8 or better (>2% of it being 12+ wins)
10% chance of being 6-12 or worse
In looking at actual results, they split against a team that went 11-5 in Summit conference play. What does it all mean? Nothing. Guess we'll find out in 2 years how UND will do in the Summit.

[centennial]

In looking at actual results, they split against a team that went 11-5 in Summit conference play. What does it all mean? Nothing. Guess we'll find out in 2 years how UND will do in the Summit.
And NDSU beat Oklahoma 2 years ago. Let's just ignore the record, the SOS, win loss, and talk about the fact that NDSU lost to UND. NDSU also lost to UND the year we beat Oklahoma. It doesn't mean ****.

[70MilesFromCanada]

UND BIG SKY Champions "DANCE" Card

MFB: Dance Partner - Spiders (Richmond), Outcome - suffered severe spider bite, still trying to recover
WVB: Dance Partner - Gophers (Minnesota), Outcome - played in Gopher Hole (Minneapolis) vs #2 overall seed, got homered/hammered
WBB: Dance Partner - None, Outcome - did not get invited to the "Prom" (NCAA), did get invited to 9th grade dance (WNIT)
MBB: Dance Partner - Wildcats (Arizona), Outcome - TBD, got better seed than Summit League champ (SDSU)

I see UND and USD are dance partners for the 9th grade ball (WNIT). Gotta play at USD but its just like the old North Central Conference battles. Game on ladies!

[Laker]

I see UND and USD are dance partners for the 9th grade ball (WNIT). Gotta play at USD but its just like the old North Central Conference battles. Game on ladies!

Back in the 80s and 90s there were some real battles. The winner of the NCC would probably end up being D2 champs or runnerup.

[nodak43]

As a UND fan who tries to look at the big picture...here's what I know:

1 - On an RPI basis the Summit will always outperform the Big Sky. There are several reasons for this. As UND moves to the Summit there will be two more opportunities for non-conference games. Schedule them correctly (and cut down on the non-D1 games) and the UND RPI will be dramatically improved (better to lose to a somebody than beat a nobody). For these reasons alone I'm excited for the move.

2 - The top of the Big Sky and the top of the Summit are comparable (with an edge to the Summit in my opinion). But the bottom of the two conferences couldn't be further apart. That parity makes everyone in the Summit better...and no doubt helps whoever comes out of the league tourney.

3 - For teams in both leagues...at the end of the day making it to the Dance is what counts. The higher RPI might get a highly ranked Summit Conference champ a 1 or 2 line bump...but both are one bid leagues for the foreseeable future. In the men's tourney...that bump has helped one team...one time (NDSU vs Oklahoma). If you have a truly elite team that's head and shoulders above the rest of the league...that matters. If the #4 seed in the conference tournament gets the bid...it really doesn't.

4 - The Big Sky is asinine for putting its conference tournament in Reno...it's such a poor decision all the way around from every perspective (save for maybe some guaranteed money from the city).

5 - The Summit Tourney in Sioux Falls is a phenomenal environment...I can't wait to hopefully make it down there once we are members. That being said...it's a hornets nest of an environment if you aren't a Bunny or a 'Yote.

Bottom line this year is this...I didn't expect UND to make the dance...and I'm thrilled they are. I'm pretty used to the UND hate on sites like this, so that's not a surprise. If UND goes out and loses by 30 on Thursday...well I won't be shocked. Plenty of conference champs from both the Summit and the Big Sky have been blown out in the past...there's no shame in it when you are facing a team full of 4 and 5 star recruits. Hopefully UND can use this as a springboard to keep the momentum going and continue to improve as they enter the Summit. It's a great league with a lot of parity right now...and if we want to compete with the upper echelon of the league we are going to have to get after it in every aspect of the program.

[FargoBison]

I still don't get why the Big Sky doesn't play their tournament at Spokane, they have a nice arena there and the location seems somewhat decent with EWU, the Idaho schools and Montana.

It is hard for a league so spread out to find an ideal location but that seems like as good as it would get. Spokane is probably small enough where the tournament would get some press locally.

[abc123]

As UND moves to the Summit there will be two more opportunities for non-conference games. Schedule them correctly (and cut down on the non-D1 games) and the UND RPI will be dramatically improved (better to lose to a somebody than beat a nobody).

Is this actually going to be the case or will the Summit go to 18 conference games so you play each team home and away and the schedule is balanced? I'd have to imagine that is what they move to along with playing Thursday/Saturday games and do mirror scheduling with WBB. It all makes too much sense to do it any other way, which is what concerns me.

[nodak43]

Is this actually going to be the case or will the Summit go to 18 conference games so you play each team home and away and the schedule is balanced? I'd have to imagine that is what they move to along with playing Thursday/Saturday games and do mirror scheduling with WBB. It all makes too much sense to do it any other way, which is what concerns me.

Good point...I didn't think of that. Daylight savings is knockin my brain around this week. UND is going to need to schedule better...and hopefully with a reduced travel burden they decide to do so. UND only played one team from a power 5 conference this year. That should be 2-3 at a minimum. Dump the 3 non D1 games (play one or two as exhibitions). I'd rather watch the team play Wisconsin/Minnesota/Iowa/Nebraska on the B10 network than drive to Grand Forks and watch UND play Mayville State. That'll help the RPI without really hurting anything else.

[clenz]

Is this actually going to be the case or will the Summit go to 18 conference games so you play each team home and away and the schedule is balanced? I'd have to imagine that is what they move to along with playing Thursday/Saturday games and do mirror scheduling with WBB. It all makes too much sense to do it any other way, which is what concerns me.
If a conference has 10 teams and doesn't play a double round robin they are the dumbest conference on earth and do not deserve a single bid to the NCAA tournament ever.

Scheduling 14 OOC games compared to 12 is just ****ing idiotic.

Why would you ever not play a full round robin?

What the ****?

Also, saying to cut non-D1s to help RPI shows that there isn't an understanding of how RPI works. Non D1's don't matter to RPI. They aren't counted. They have zero impact. For a one bid league that probably doesn't matter.

However, for a team like Illinois State this year, Wichita State, UNI most years, etc... it makes a world of difference. Paying Warburg College (a D3 literally 20 minutes drive north from UNI's arena) 10-20K for a game is cheaper, and "better" for the RPI than paying a MEAC, Big Sky, etc... level team to come in. The rate for those teams is 75K or more, plus travel. Oh, and chances are they are a 250+ RPI team. That means beating them by 80 will actually hurt RPI.

To use Illinois State as an example this year. Illinois State finished the season with an RPI of 33 and a SOS of 124. They played 2 Summit teams, 2 OVC teams. Had they dropped one of the OVC teams and replaced it with a D3 - Murray State is most likely as it was the first game of the season and that's when those games take place - their RPI actually goes to 27 and SOS to 118. Let's say they droped IUPUI (Summit) they go to 30 and 119.

To touch on the UND/UNI scheduling in basketball thing one more time from another thread as I was running some numbers - UND didn't hurt UNI this year (1 because UNI sucked and 2 UND wasn't awful form an RPI stand point...same goes for SDSU don't get your panties in a wad). Those two games were actually the worst games on UNI's OOC schedule from a RPI standpoint and from a "selling it as a worth while game" stand point. UNI Arizona St, Oklahoma, Xavier (x2), George Mason, Wyoming, Iowa and UNC. Next year UNI has UNC, Iowa State, Xavier, 3 of Arizona, Villanova, Prdue, SMU, NC State, Tennessee, WKU, a MWC team as part of the MWC/MVC challenge (UNLV has said they are playing UNI but no word if its that or that's a stand alone game). UNI, for the most part, plays a damn good schedule. We also just happen to be more okay playing all of December on the road. Over the last 4 seasons UNI has played 9 total home games between Thanksgiving and the first conference game. I would kill for more home games, but scheduling too a MEAC, SWAC, OVC, (most) Summits, etc... would/do completely kill the RPI build up that UNI gets from that schedule. Thus a D3 is almost always the better route

[nodak43]

If a conference has 10 teams and doesn't play a double round robin they are the dumbest conference on earth and do not deserve a single bid to the NCAA tournament ever.

Scheduling 14 OOC games compared to 12 is just ****ing idiotic.

Why would you ever not play a full round robin?

What the ****?

Also, saying to cut non-D1s to help RPI shows that there isn't an understanding of how RPI works. Non D1's don't matter to RPI. They aren't counted. They have zero impact. For a one bid league that probably doesn't matter.

However, for a team like Illinois State this year, Wichita State, UNI most years, etc... it makes a world of difference. Paying Warburg College (a D3 literally 20 minutes drive north from UNI's arena) 10-20K for a game is cheaper, and "better" for the RPI than paying a MEAC, Big Sky, etc... level team to come in. The rate for those teams is 75K or more, plus travel. Oh, and chances are they are a 250+ RPI team. That means beating them by 80 will actually hurt RPI.

To use Illinois State as an example this year. Illinois State finished the season with an RPI of 33 and a SOS of 124. They played 2 Summit teams, 2 OVC teams. Had they dropped one of the OVC teams and replaced it with a D3 - Murray State is most likely as it was the first game of the season and that's when those games take place - their RPI actually goes to 27 and SOS to 118. Let's say they droped IUPUI (Summit) they go to 30 and 119.

To touch on the UND/UNI scheduling in basketball thing one more time from another thread as I was running some numbers - UND didn't hurt UNI this year (1 because UNI sucked and 2 UND wasn't awful form an RPI stand point...same goes for SDSU don't get your panties in a wad). Those two games were actually the worst games on UNI's OOC schedule from a RPI standpoint and from a "selling it as a worth while game" stand point. UNI Arizona St, Oklahoma, Xavier (x2), George Mason, Wyoming, Iowa and UNC. Next year UNI has UNC, Iowa State, Xavier, 3 of Arizona, Villanova, Prdue, SMU, NC State, Tennessee, WKU, a MWC team as part of the MWC/MVC challenge (UNLV has said they are playing UNI but no word if its that or that's a stand alone game). UNI, for the most part, plays a damn good schedule. We also just happen to be more okay playing all of December on the road. Over the last 4 seasons UNI has played 9 total home games between Thanksgiving and the first conference game. I would kill for more home games, but scheduling too a MEAC, SWAC, OVC, (most) Summits, etc... would/do completely kill the RPI build up that UNI gets from that schedule. Thus a D3 is almost always the better route

You're right...non D-1s don't count toward your RPI...but when those non-D1 games a team plays actually count toward your limit (rather than as exhibitions) it actually does hurt UND could replace those games with a money game that would count toward your RPI. Playing a power-5 for a guarantee vs playing an NAIA absolutely does help your RPI in that respect (as you'd get a lift in your opponent's W/L record and your opponent's opponents W/L record).

And what UNI resorts to doing is exactly why the RPI shouldn't be weighted as heavily as it is. You should absolutely get more credit for playing a team from the OVC or the Summit than you do an IIAC team. Basically meeting in the middle between where UND has been scheduling wise and what UNI is currently doing is what I'd like to see in Grand Forks in the future.

[FargoBison]

Going to Thursday-Saturday and playing 18 conference games was pretty much the reasoning that led to adding a 10th team.

I'd love to see the Summit issue a scheduling mandate but it is hard to do since scheduling is a struggle for everyone, thus even more motivation to add a 10th member.

[clenz]

Who cares it it counts towards your limit?

The RPI hit for playing WIU for a game that wouldn't be any more competitive than Wartburg isn't worth it.

[Hammersmith]

Who cares it it counts towards your limit?

The RPI hit for playing WIU for a game that wouldn't be any more competitive than Wartburg isn't worth it.

But does it really matter that much anymore for RPI? Sure the media likes to talk about RPI, but how much does it really factor into the committee decisions today?

Opinion follows:

When the RPI was introduced as a factor to the committee, they viewed it quite highly. The MVC took advantage of this and created a scheduling model that mandated games that would result in a high conference RPI. And it worked. Until the MVC got five teams in thanks mainly to RPI manipulation. I think that is when the committee <coughP5cough> realized the flaws in the RPI system. Since then, I think the committee has looked less and less at RPI as a factor in selection and seeding.

This year, I took a look at RPI, Sagarin and Kenpom when it came to seeding the bottom autobids(12-16) compared to what the committee did. Sagarin was the best predictor, Kenpom was within a hair of Sag, and RPI was way out by comparison. I haven't bothered to do the top 2/3rds of the field, but I suspect it's similar. If true, why care that much about RPI if it doesn't help you where it counts anymore(selection Sunday)?

But maybe I'm wrong.

[clenz]

But does it really matter that much anymore for RPI? Sure the media likes to talk about RPI, but how much does it really factor into the committee decisions today?

Opinion follows:

When the RPI was introduced as a factor to the committee, they viewed it quite highly. The MVC took advantage of this and created a scheduling model that mandated games that would result in a high conference RPI. And it worked. Until the MVC got five teams in thanks mainly to RPI manipulation. I think that is when the committee <coughP5cough> realized the flaws in the RPI system. Since then, I think the committee has looked less and less at RPI as a factor in selection and seeding.

This year, I took a look at RPI, Sagarin and Kenpom when it came to seeding the bottom autobids(12-16) compared to what the committee did. Sagarin was the best predictor, Kenpom was within a hair of Sag, and RPI was way out by comparison. I haven't bothered to do the top 2/3rds of the field, but I suspect it's similar. If true, why care that much about RPI if it doesn't help you where it counts anymore(selection Sunday)?

But maybe I'm wrong.
I laid it out in another thread using ISUr as an example

Had they played a D3 rather than IUPUI or Murray State their RPI would have gone from 33 to about 23 and SOS went from 124 to about 115. ISU isn't left out if they have an RPI of 23 with a 115 SOS.

Sure, RPI is pretty easy to manipulate, but it also creates better levels of competition. If you're playing a strong schedule your choice is to go 3-9 OOC or get good enough to do well in the OOC and got 9-3. You go 9-3 in OOC in a conference that has other teams playing high SOS schedules and doing well the RPI machine cranks it up and you get teams getting really good and getting bids.

Yes, the MVC "played the RPI game" but it's not just that we got teams in. They won. The 2006 season had MULTIPLE MVC Sweet 16 teams and I think UNI was the only one that didn't win at least one game (lost by 5 in the first round).

All of a sudden that schedule mandate goes away and you don't need to "be as good" to rack up wins and get to 20 plus wins. Evansville is the perfect example of this. Evansville fans, and apologists, love to brag about how often they win more than 20 games as they'll go 10=2 or 11-1 in the OOC. However, they do it against OOC SOSs of 200 or worse. That destroys RPI for them. That also means, because of how RPI works, that programs like ISUr, UNI and WSU have their RPIs raped. That then hurts the conferences seeding and ability to get multiple bids.

So yes, scheduling mandates "game the system". The MVC isn't getting the benefit of the doubt of the RPI anymore because we've gone from having 9 teams in the top 160 of the RPI to having between 4 and 6 teams with RPIs worse than 200, and at least one (if not 2 or 3 teams) with RPIs worse than 300. It's not nearly as much that the P5 is chasing the MVC out (though to some extent is is). If we had more MVC teams "gaming the system" and forcing themselves to get better to win games, rather than relying on playing 4 SWAC teams a year to get their win total up, the conference gets better. The teams get better. The seeds get better. The number of bids goes up. The level of player in the conference goes up. It starts to go past what your RPI number is. Your eye test looks better. You quality of play gets better. Your quality of win gets better.

It's all a cycle.

[abc123]

If a conference has 10 teams and doesn't play a double round robin they are the dumbest conference on earth and do not deserve a single bid to the NCAA tournament ever.

Scheduling 14 OOC games compared to 12 is just ****ing idiotic.

Why would you ever not play a full round robin?

What the ****?

I fully agree with you. I'm just surprised they haven't come out and made it 100% clear they are moving to 18 conference games with full round robin and moving all games to Thursday/Saturday with mirror scheduling with MBB/WBB. Granted, they did state they wanted to move to 10 teams scheduling reasons, so a portion of that is probably implied, just not sure why they didn't take the simple step of clarifying all of it because it simplifies everything.

[RabidRabbit]

All for a Thursday and Saturday schedule for the summit men's games. Hopefully women do not get scheduled into a full mirror schedule as as that would prevent the ability to watch both games during a weekend.

[70MilesFromCanada]

UND must be getting serious about competing in the MV and Summit.
They cut women's hockey and men's/women's swimming to cover a $1.3 million budget shortfall and get their other sports up to snuff.

"The decision to cut the sports was based upon the university's budget reduction instruction, conference sport sponsorship requirements for both the Big Sky Conference and Summit League, Title IX compliance, additional Summit League scholarship requirements and the ability to reinvest in championship-level programs."


Full story here: ​http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4242553-und-cuts-womens-hockey-mens-and-womens-swimming

[FargoBison]

This was actually a pretty good thing for the Summit. Women's hockey was an unnecessary ball and chain UND had to drag around. They'll need all the resources they can find for when they have to step up to the Summit.

[Thundar]

This was actually a pretty good thing for the Summit. Women's hockey was an unnecessary ball and chain UND had to drag around. They'll need all the resources they can find for when they have to step up to the Summit.

MVFC/Summit no matter what they want to think will be a jump. NDSU/SDSU found that out moving from the GWC.

Last years UND team doesnt make the playoffs in the MVFC

[70MilesFromCanada]

This was actually a pretty good thing for the Summit. Women's hockey was an unnecessary ball and chain UND had to drag around. They'll need all the resources they can find for when they have to step up to the Summit.

They cut about $2.5 million when they had stated the target was $1.3 million. Perhaps some coaches will get raises.

[abc123]

MVFC/Summit no matter what they want to think will be a jump. NDSU/SDSU found that out moving from the GWC.

Last years UND team doesnt make the playoffs in the MVFC

The XDSU's came from the Great West to an established conference. UND is moving from an established conference to another. It will take a little time to gain familiarity, but the move is not comparable.

I think UND does make the playoffs in the MVFC last year but to each his own.

[BisonFan02]

The XDSU's came from the Great West to an established conference. UND is moving from an established conference to another. It will take a little time to gain familiarity, but the move is not comparable.

I think UND does make the playoffs in the MVFC last year but to each his own.

Didn't you guys play a Great West schedule last year?

[abc123]

Didn't you guys play a Great West schedule last year?
Yeah but Cal Poly had some success out of conference...

[Thundar]

The XDSU's came from the Great West to an established conference. UND is moving from an established conference to another. It will take a little time to gain familiarity, but the move is not comparable.

I think UND does make the playoffs in the MVFC last year but to each his own.

sounds good man

[Thumper 76]

The XDSU's came from the Great West to an established conference. UND is moving from an established conference to another. It will take a little time to gain familiarity, but the move is not comparable.

I think UND does make the playoffs in the MVFC last year but to each his own.

The fun part is thanks to UND we get to have the same crappy unbalanced schedule, except the FHawks won't get to dodge the top teams in the conference like they did last year.


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[abc123]

The fun part is thanks to UND we get to have the same crappy unbalanced schedule, except the FHawks won't get to dodge the top teams in the conference like they did last year.

It's funny you think Montana was a top team in the conference last year.

UND gets both EWU and Montana this year. The last game of the regular season (for UND) is looking to be a good one.