UND Negotiating move to MVFC and Summit

[clenz]

UNI has been more of football rivalry that many fans dont know about. But the Teams know about it. Stan Sherriff hated us.
Hatred a rivalry doesn't make.

That's they I don't consider NDSU a rival.

It's a tough game.
It's a heated game.
There's **** talk.

It's not a rivalry at this point. Maybe in the 60s and 70s. We play each other in one sport and occasionally run into each other in wrestling, track or softball. That's it. It's a heated game, but outside of that one weekend a year NDSU has no real impact on UNI in a way a rival would.

SIU, ISUr and MSU? Yes.

[dbackjon]

Has this been resolved yet?

[Yote 53]

When this comes to pass I have no issue with any MVFC West school scheduling a patsy OOC game to help ease the schedule. In recent years USD has scheduled FBS, BSC, BSC, then a MVFC schedule. Props for taking on all comers and putting together a true schedule but in the future I would like to see it like it is next season with a team like Drake on the schedule.

I'm basically using the SEC West defense. Our conference is so tough OOC scheduling doesn't matter.

[abc123]

Again none of it had anything to do with regular season games. It all revolved around post season play. End of story.
Yes, the majority of the sanctions have to do with postseason play, but not the compliance portion of it for UND. This argument came up when the settlement was originally signed. Some of the hockey only fans were fine with not getting to wear the logo or use the nickname during the NCAA tournament as long they could during the regular season because the sanctions had little effect on the hockey team since regionals are held at neutral sites. However there is language in the settlement that states institutions that continue to use the imagery without namesake approval are subject to sanctions as well:


WHEREAS, pursuant to the Policy, uniforms or other paraphernalia with Native American reference or images cannot be worn or displayed at NCAA Championship competitions, and institutions which continue to display or promote Native American references are prohibited from hosting Championship events

What you are saying is correct and exactly what the first portion says, UND could not reference Native American imagery during postseason play. In 2012, this specifically applied. UND had retired the nickname as of 12/31/11 (delayed due to the ND legislature), however they had not ordered new jerseys and then had to get them rushed to make sure they had them in time for the NCAA regional hockey tournament for both the men's and women's team, otherwise they would have ended up forfeiting.

However what I'm stating is the second portion that says "continue to display or promote Native American references", meaning they must be compliance at all times, not just the postseason, or they wouldn't be allowed to host, which mainly applies to football (plus the part where the NCAA recommended other teams not to schedule them). The settlement then goes into specifics and exceptions on the continued use portion for UND, of which trophies is specifically mentioned and allowed to be displayed in a historical significance but not allowed for continued use due to the Native American imagery. Right around 2012 there was also an addendum specifying some things that did and didn't have to be removed (including "Home of the Fighting Sioux" from the outside of the REA).

If names and imagery during postseason was the only concern, why would the REA have had to remove all of the things they were required to and continue to remove other things as they reach the end of their useful life? The REA isn't able to host any postseason games that are NCAA sponsored (hockey regionals) nor is it owned by UND. You're also saying UND would be able to wear "throwback" jersey's during the regular season (which would be a huge fundraising opportunity) and not be in violation of the settlement agreement.


TL;DR - UND using the Nickel Trophy due to its Native American imagery for anything outside displaying it for historical significance would subject them to sanctions that would not allow the football team to host postseason games.

[Yote 53]

So we won't be bringing back the Sitting Bull Trophy either. Bummer. You do realize that Trump is POTUS now and we're going back to making America great again.

[BisonTru]

Generally, I agree. I love it when we beat UNI and SDSU but I really love to stomp the **** out of UND....put your foot on their throat and crush them....:D

Maybe because I grew up watching NDSU crush UND every year in football (80s) then watching the slow bleed from the NDSU program in the late 90s and 2000s.....having UND fans as friends (ya, I tolerate them....xlolx) it is sure fun to rub it in when they lose...xthumbsupx

Yeah, different generations are going to view this differently. I caught the tail end of the rivalry, but some NDSU fans have only seen one game played between the two and it was a blow out. The one area I think most NDSU fans have in common is that we work, live, maybe even related to UND fans. That is an element that the other rivalries don't have or at least not at the level of UND. Outside of this place, I personally know 2 Jacks fans. I don't know a single UNI fan. UND fans easily are in the 100s. Hell, I even know quite a few Cat/Griz fans, but I grew up on the MT/ND border.

[Thumper 76]

I think it will be interesting to see if the rivalry has lost some luster. The SDSU USD rivalry was brought back when USD joined the SLC and MVFC. It does not have the same amount passion it once did. Our younger fan base will turn out in droves for an NDSU game. Not so much for USD. USD are definitely a rival but it is not at the same level it was in the early 90s when I was at SDSU.

This is pretty accurate. The NDSU rivalry has built up from being "forced" into something very real. The yotes are a rival, I won't deny that, but it doesn't have the intensity of NDSU after the years of trading winning the Summit and years of pain inflicted by losing in the playoffs up there.

Also what a lot of people don't realize I think is that SDSU is about the same distance in drive time from the yotes and bison. I imagine the yotes rivalry would be more intense if they were in Watertown, making them as close as UND is to Fargo, but the layoff really killed the intensity of the rivalry since an entire group of college students never were a part of it. Hell Hobo day had a bigger crowd than the game against the yotes. No way that happens for the NDSU game, there would be a better turnout from the SDSU fans and obviously the traveling herd of bovine, it would sell out no problem.


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[abc123]

Also, I hate the argument that it renews some sort of 'rivalry'. I'm a student at NDSU, and trust me; there is no rivalry. People here consider SDSU our main rival, and for good reason.


I graduated from NDSU in 2008-9, neither was UND a rival to my class. I mean yeah, I heard the chant a few times, and there was general dislike of UND. However, hate to break it to you the alumni haven't considered them rivals since for 10+ years at the very least. SDSU is probably considered the biggest rival followed by UNI in football, especially for kids that don't have parents that went to NDSU.

#NotMyRival


http://www.twincities.com/2014/10/09/3-ndsu-homecoming-candidates-arrested-in-und-trespassing/

Three candidates for North Dakota State University’s homecoming royalty were arrested while allegedly trying to hang a sign on an athletic center used by the University of North Dakota late Wednesday.

According to UND Police Sgt. Danny Weigel, the three were arrested after officers responded to a report of a “somewhat rather large group” of people climbing the outside of the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center just before 11 p.m. Wednesday.


But at least the judge had a sense of humor about it.

http://ndsuspectrum.com/judge-orders-ndsu-pranksters-to-write-papers-on-why-und-is-a-good-school/

Judge Lee Chirstofferson, a UND alumnus, charged the two who pleaded guilty to the Level B misdemeanor, Billy Ogdahl, 22, and Kyle Mason, 21, to a $225 fine and sentenced both of them to write a two-page paper on “why UND is a good school.”

[AmsterBison]

TL;DR - UND using the Nickel Trophy due to its Native American imagery for anything outside displaying it for historical significance would subject them to sanctions that would not allow the football team to host postseason games.

I'd like an NCAA opinion made public on the trophy because UND has an almost unblemished record for being wrong on everything. :)

Here's my rebuttal:
1. The trophy is a replica of currency so banning that would be like saying that playing for a replica of the ND state seal (or displaying the ND state flag, for that matter) would be banned as well.
2. Northwestern State and Stephen F. Austin are currently playing for this trophy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Caddo
3. It'd be NDSU's problem not UND's. Hell, UND should have turned the trophy over the last game.
4. The whole "We can keep it on our campus but we can't play for it" argument seems bogus - either play for it or turn it over to the State Historical Society
5. Before the last game, UND's AD said that the trophy wasn't up for grabs because the game wasn't being played annually; using that logic, UND has had no right to keep hold of the trophy since since 2004. UND can certainly do the right thing and turn it over without incurring any of the NCAA's wrath.

However, if you produce the settlement agreement and can point out where the Nickel Trophy is referenced as being banned, you could convince me. Otherwise, I (and anybody else with an ounce of sense) is going to have to hear it straight from the NCAA.

[centennial]

Any thoughts on renaming the MVFC to NCC?

[clenz]

Any thoughts on renaming the MVFC to NCC?
I'm all for going away from MVFC. I hated the switch from Gateway

NCC still exists at the D2 level though

It leads to stupid tweets like

https://twitter.com/GoJacksFB/status/824328662182981632

Go back to Gateway.

God the old Gateway was sweet

http://www.inforum.com/sites/default/files/styles/16x9_315/public/fieldimages/15/0523/graphic-gateway-football-conference.jpg?itok=Rgdr2BRS

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/GatewayFootballConference_1.png

[AmsterBison]

Any thoughts on renaming the MVFC to NCC?

Wouldn't bother me one bit.

NDSU didn't leave D2 because the NCC was bad. NDSU left D2 because the administration saw the writing on the wall and that writing read (in part), "There are going to be one metric crap ton of schools you don't consider peers moving into D2 in our region - like Minot State, Winona State, U of Mary, Minnesota-Crookston, Northern State, Moorhead State, Upper Iowa, Concordia St Paul, University of Sioux Falls, Bemidji State, etc."

[centennial]

I'm all for going away from MVFC. I hated the switch from Gateway

NCC still exists at the D2 level though

It leads to stupid tweets like

https://twitter.com/GoJacksFB/status/824328662182981632

Go back to Gateway.

God the old Gateway was sweet

http://www.inforum.com/sites/default/files/styles/16x9_315/public/fieldimages/15/0523/graphic-gateway-football-conference.jpg?itok=Rgdr2BRS

That's some nice trolling.

[clenz]

That's some nice trolling.
They never responded to my questions about their statement though

https://twitter.com/cdl1018/status/824332290520129539

[clenz]

I suggest going back to Gateway because the other good names are all taken by D2, D3 and NAIA

Great Plains Conference
Midwest Conference (Midwest Football Conference)
North Central Conference

[centennial]

I suggest going back to Gateway because the other good names are all taken by D2, D3 and NAIA

Great Plains Conference
Midwest Conference (Midwest Football Conference)
North Central Conference
Bring on the Big 11 football conference.

[BisonTru]

How about the Dakotas and Friends.... and YSU. :D

[abc123]

I'd like an NCAA opinion made public on the trophy because UND has an almost unblemished record for being wrong on everything. :)

However, if you produce the settlement agreement and can point out where the Nickel Trophy is referenced as being banned, you could convince me. Otherwise, I (and anybody else with an ounce of sense) is going to have to hear it straight from the NCAA.

The settlement agreement is available on the internet, though I haven't found Addendum recently due to the ND AG changing their web page, and I've pointed out the sections I've taken my information from. I'm more than comfortable with my interpretation through both reading it and input from those who are more involved in the situation. I also have no doubt people will continue have their own opinions, founded or unfounded. I also have no doubt that the NCAA could change their position or just decide they don't care, because well, they are the NCAA and consistency isn't exactly their forte.

I don't have a real opinion one way or another on playing for it (other than getting some enjoyment from both the angst that it causes among some NDSU fans that UND still has it and the handful of UND fans who seem to think it is a big deal) and if it is allowed, I have no issue with it being up for grabs, assuming it is for an annual game as it was in the past, which is why it never changed hands during the playoffs. If there are NDSU fans that are as concerned as a few seem to be about it, have Matt Larsen inquire with the NCAA. I don't see UND going to start revisiting nickname issues with them.

I'll also point out that Gene Taylor is on record as saying it was no longer appropriate to play for due to the Native American imagery, so I guess you can believe him if you want. While he didn't specifically say it couldn't be played, nor did he say it could be, neither of which was what he was asked, he did specifically refer to the Native American imagery as to why it wouldn't be.

[344Johnson]

It's a replica of legal US tender.

If the ncaa is uncomfortable with that, just mint a new nickel trophy without an Indian on it.

[clenz]

So...has the vote happened yet?

[Thumper 76]

That's some nice trolling.

I thought so too xlolx


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[clenz]

I thought so too xlolx


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Then you got pissy when I pointed out how poorly of an attempt it was.

[Thumper 76]

Then you got pissy when I pointed out how poorly of an attempt it was.

Not really, but sure.


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[clenz]

Not really, but sure.


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Well, you didn't find me funny

[Thumper 76]

Well, you didn't find me funny

Yes, I did make a joke about betraying the group txt though.


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[clenz]

Yes, I did make a joke about betraying the group txt though.


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You thought I was defending used. You were a little triggered

[dbackjon]

So nah, bro?

- - - Updated - - -

It's 5 o'clock in Fargo. Should have had something by now

[centennial]

So did the MVFC presidents vote no?

[RabidRabbit]

Btw, North Central Conference disbanded with UND USD departure. No school currently plays in the NCC, instead the residual schools went to Northern Sun.


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[Thumper 76]

So nah, bro?

- - - Updated - - -

It's 5 o'clock in Fargo. Should have had something by now

Incredibly quiet right now....


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[clenz]

How long does it take to count 10 votes? They are one word votes.

Yes
No
Abstain

7 yes votes needed.

What if all 3 Dakota schools and UNI (due to lack of president) abstained. Then there was like 4 yes votes and 2 no votes.

I wonder if half the conference abstaining creates a "misvote" and they have no idea what to do

[GodHelpTheBears]

How long does it take to count 10 votes? They are one word votes.

Yes
No
Abstain

7 yes votes needed.

What if all 3 Dakota schools and UNI (due to lack of president) abstained. Then there was like 4 yes votes and 2 no votes.

I wonder if half the conference abstaining creates a "misvote" and they have no idea what to do

We better have voted no. The "west" division is craptastic for us and as much of a crock as the SEC East is for UM-C.

Then again, our default position is bent over and spread out, so I imagine nothing good happened today...

[Thumper 76]

How long does it take to count 10 votes? They are one word votes.

Yes
No
Abstain

7 yes votes needed.

What if all 3 Dakota schools and UNI (due to lack of president) abstained. Then there was like 4 yes votes and 2 no votes.

I wonder if half the conference abstaining creates a "misvote" and they have no idea what to do

Maybe that's the hold up? They don't know wtf to do when three schools voted?


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[citdog]

Maybe that's the hold up? They don't know wtf to do when three schools voted?


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Trump going to look into it...

[Thumper 76]

Trump going to look into it...

7 schools voted, 20 votes totaled up. Pandemonium follows.


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[BisonFan02]

Hatred a rivalry doesn't make.

That's they I don't consider NDSU a rival.

It's a tough game.
It's a heated game.
There's **** talk.

It's not a rivalry at this point. Maybe in the 60s and 70s. We play each other in one sport and occasionally run into each other in wrestling, track or softball. That's it. It's a heated game, but outside of that one weekend a year NDSU has no real impact on UNI in a way a rival would.

SIU, ISUr and MSU? Yes.

....and I agree....which is exactly why NDSU needs to get out of a football only conference. Need more all sports rivals...... **** the MVFC...Summit League Football or bust....Good luck with the Gateway 2.0 after scraping together other MVC half assed football programs. :D #Drakeonspeeddial

[Yotes21]

They never responded to my questions about their statement though

https://twitter.com/cdl1018/status/824332290520129539

No, THIS is good trolling. Then the Jacks FB account deleted your tweet! LOL At least use the correct abbreviation for the conference.

[clenz]

No, THIS is good trolling. Then the Jacks FB account deleted your tweet! LOL At least use the correct acronym for the conference.

It continues. I want to see how far I can go before I'm blocked by someone

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170126/4bcdc749c2d690230f44c01119b97e25.jpg

[Thumper 76]

No, THIS is good trolling. Then the Jacks FB account deleted your tweet! LOL At least use the correct acronym for the conference.

Coming from the school that screwed up a billboard proclaiming academic excellence, this is rich.


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[cx500d]

Let's see if the AD & football leadership has the balls to put the Nickel Trophy back up for grabs...

We'll change the indian head side over to the chicken hawk.

(Cue Mr. Chicken in 3...2...1...)

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BRAWK.......BROCCO


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[cx500d]

Get a relay baton from the track team and call it the Pipeline Trophy. That will get people talking.

Just make another casting with a Bison on one side and cupcakes and snowflakes on the other.


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[No_Skill]

Just make another casting with a Bison on one side and cupcakes and snowflakes on the other.


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With sprinkles?

[BisonTru]

With sprinkles?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TKnjDmLk-QA/hqdefault.jpg

[centennial]

How would UND like to be an associate football member of the Big Sky conference?

[No_Skill]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TKnjDmLk-QA/hqdefault.jpg

Damn right!

[Yotes21]

Coming from the school that screwed up a billboard proclaiming academic excellence, this is rich.


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And I'm sure it gave you a hard on.

[AmsterBison]

And I'm sure it gave you a hard on.

Don't jerk and drive, South Dakota.

[dewey]

How long does it take to count 10 votes? They are one word votes.

Probably a while if a GFCC alum is counting the votesxlolx

Dewey

[clenz]

So...do we have white or dark smoke from the Chimney?

Any actual word?

[Laker]

So...do we have white or dark smoke from the Chimney?

Any actual word?

Yah, what are they waiting for? Hawaii time? Is Santa stuck in that chimney?

[clenz]

If they are in, then so ****ing be it. If they aren't? Even better.

I'd rather just know so I can start the grieving process...or celebrating.

[F'N Hawks]

1:30 press conference.

[Drblankstare]

Dom Izzo says they are in. Per Twitter

[Drblankstare]

So are they reviving their baseball team? The Summit needs baseball to keep the autobid.

[F'N Hawks]

So are they reviving their baseball team? The Summit needs baseball to keep the autobid.

No they don't and no they aren't. Douple had his chance to add them a few years ago but let his ego and rogue AD's get in the way of the baseball coaches wishes. Hurt everyone involved.

[IBleedYellow]

I blame USeD.

[Thumper 76]

I blame USeD.

+1. Damn varmints


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[AmsterBison]

If they are in, then so ****ing be it. If they aren't? Even better.

I'd rather just know so I can start the grieving process...or celebrating.

When I think of the last 15 years of UND's athletic department, it's more of a "Don't cry because it's over, laugh your ass off because it happened"-type deal. So maybe it's time to give them a hand up, wipe the drool of their collective chin, pat them on their collective head, and give them a good old Stuart Smalley pep talk.

And if they get annoying (not saying they will be), then beating the snot of them is just that much more satisfying.

[F'N Hawks]

When I think of the last 15 years of UND's athletic department, it's more of a "Don't cry because it's over, laugh your ass off because it happened"-type deal. So maybe it's time to give them a hand up, wipe the drool of their collective chin, pat them on their collective head, and give them a good old Stuart Smalley pep talk.

And if they get annoying (not saying they will be), then beating the snot of them is just that much more satisfying.

No doubt about it. Very articulate and well-thought out.

Here's to hoping they can finally have some success after these years of anguish and losing records.

[Yote 53]

I blame USeD.

I don't know who USeD is but if you are referring to THE University of South Dakota I have to ask why you would cast the blame our way? We aren't responsible for the massive athletic budget issues at UND. You know that is the issue. You know that they came crawling asking to get into the MVFC because they couldn't afford the travel, and too many of the BSC schools couldn't afford the travel to the Forks. I seem to remember a summit between Patty V, Douple, and whoever the BSC commish is about 6 months ago where they discussed the future of FCS football in the West. I am now convinced that meeting was about UND belonging in that far flung conference and how it wasn't a viable long term position that would work for anybody. Low and behold look what is happening now.

UND & USD in the BSC might have worked, I'm not sure if the travel may have still been too difficult. The ultimate goal of the BSC back when that move was made was to get NDSU and SDSU as well, a power move to get all the Dakota schools and pair them up with the Montanas and UNC to form the BSC East. That move would have worked long term. Patty V. and the MVFC blocked that move by swooping in and offering USD, thereby saving the MFVC & Summit in the process. Now it is checkmate time and we are forced to take on UND too. Order has been restored and stability has come to the BSC, the MVFC, and the Summit. The travel costs to UND for the eastern MVFC schools and an unbalanced schedule for the MVFC West schools is the price we will pay for the stability.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I don't know who USeD is but if you are referring to THE University of South Dakota I have to ask why you would cast the blame our way? We aren't responsible for the massive athletic budget issues at UND. You know that is the issue. You know that they came crawling asking to get into the MVFC because they couldn't afford the travel, and too many of the BSC schools couldn't afford the travel to the Forks. I seem to remember a summit between Patty V, Douple, and whoever the BSC commish is about 6 months ago where they discussed the future of FCS football in the West. I am now convinced that meeting was about UND belonging in that far flung conference and how it wasn't a viable long term position that would work for anybody. Low and behold look what is happening now.

UND & USD in the BSC might have worked, I'm not sure if the travel may have still been too difficult. The ultimate goal of the BSC back when that move was made was to get NDSU and SDSU as well, a power move to get all the Dakota schools and pair them up with the Montanas and UNC to form the BSC East. That move would have worked long term. Patty V. and the MVFC blocked that move by swooping in and offering USD, thereby saving the MFVC & Summit in the process. Now it is checkmate time and we are forced to take on UND too. Order has been restored and stability has come to the BSC, the MVFC, and the Summit. The travel costs to UND for the eastern MVFC schools and an unbalanced schedule for the MVFC West schools is the price we will pay for the stability.


Hockey is their own worst enemy at UND. Hugely successful men's program but with Title IX, they have to have a woman's program that only bleeds money out of the athletic budget.

[Laker]

orthDakotaAthleticsVerified account‏@UNDsports (https://twitter.com/UNDsports) Follow

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UND will be holding a press conference today at 1:30 p.m. CT. Watch it live on http://UNDsports.com (https://t.co/5bLGzcidaj). http://www.undsports.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?catid=0&id=1831777&db_oem_id=13500 … (https://t.co/9B3hETkhwB)

[nodak651]

Hockey is their own worst enemy at UND. Hugely successful men's program but with Title IX, they have to have a woman's program that only bleeds money out of the athletic budget. That's not true at all. UND does not have to have women's hockey - it chooses to, unfortunately. Roughly half of the schools with men's hockey do not field a women's team.

Most people on SiouxSports want the women's team to be cut, as it would save us about 2 million a year.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That's not true at all. UND does not have to have women's hockey - it chooses to, unfortunately. Roughly half of the schools with men's hockey do not field a women's team.

Most people on SiouxSports want the women's team to be cut, as it would save us about 2 million a year.


So, having 20 or 22 more men's scholarships would keep UND in compliance with Title IX?

How many of those "half" are D2 or D3 schools?

[F'N Hawks]

So, having 20 or 22 more men's scholarships would keep UND in compliance with Title IX?

How many of those "half" are D2 or D3 schools?

The scholarships are one factor in the whole equation. In fact, UND is actually skewed to the women right now for opportunities vs. general population and could be sued by a Men's team if one felt inclined. Like Baseball. Don't know if they would win but there is a case.

It would actually be fairly easy to drop Women's Hockey and make everything legal-like.

[dbackjon]

How would UND like to be an associate football member of the Big Sky conference?

No

[clenz]

Nice...

According to Craig Haley, UNI no longer plays in the MVFC. Turns out we don't need to deal with this bull**** anymore

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20170126110256991647504&ref=rec&tm=&src=FCS


All of the nine Summit League members are within 1,000 miles of UND, the closest being North Dakota State, just 81 miles away in Fargo.

The Summit League doesn't sponsor football, so NDSU, South Dakota, South Dakota State and Western Illinois play in the MVFC along with Illinois State, Indiana State, Missouri State, Southern Illinois and Youngstown State. Only Youngstown State is beyond 1,000 miles from UND at about 1,129.

[Redbird007]

Hockey is their own worst enemy at UND. Hugely successful men's program but with Title IX, they have to have a woman's program that only bleeds money out of the athletic budget.

How is that different than NDSU's (or any other university) football team?

Edit: Meaning you have to have some women's sports team to make up for all of the men's scholarships offered by football.

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

Yeah, different generations are going to view this differently. I caught the tail end of the rivalry, but some NDSU fans have only seen one game played between the two and it was a blow out. The one area I think most NDSU fans have in common is that we work, live, maybe even related to UND fans. That is an element that the other rivalries don't have or at least not at the level of UND. Outside of this place, I personally know 2 Jacks fans. I don't know a single UNI fan. UND fans easily are in the 100s. Hell, I even know quite a few Cat/Griz fans, but I grew up on the MT/ND border.
Agree with you, I was a freshman at UND in 1970, went to many FB & BB games at Fargo then and since. We would stay at friends who were going to NDSU when we went to the games. We got along great, but we seated ourselves in the visiting section during the games and gave it all we had. It was a lot of fum. After the game we partied together. We returned the favor in the playback games. I know hundreds of Bison graduates in the work place, as friends, relatives, and even gave some hockey tickets, they enjoyed the experience. These games in all sports on ND soil are good for all the fans, not just the 2 U's alumni.
It's a whole different world out there (In North Dakota, western MN) than on Bisonville.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

How is that different than NDSU's (or any other university) football team?

Edit: Meaning you have to have some women's sports team to make up for all of the men's scholarships offered by football.


Take a look at what the NCAA allows for athletic scholarships. In many sports there are more woman's schollies compared to men in the same sport to offset football.

My point was if having the men's team and not having a woman's team made UND noncompliant in all sports....apparently not. Apparantly, the woman's team, which draws not much of a paying crowd, could be dropped at UND and still be in compliance.

[F'N Hawks]

Take a look at what the NCAA allows for athletic scholarships. In many sports there are more woman's schollies compared to men in the same sport to offset football.

My point was if having the men's team and not having a woman's team made UND noncompliant in all sports....apparently not. Apparantly, the woman's team, which draws not much of a paying crowd, could be dropped at UND and still be in compliance.

There is no duplicity rule. It's about opportunities and usually those align based on high school athletics but it is not a hard rule.

[clenz]

Take a look at what the NCAA allows for athletic scholarships. In many sports there are more woman's schollies compared to men in the same sport to offset football.

My point was if having the men's team and not having a woman's team made UND noncompliant in all sports....apparently not. Apparantly, the woman's team, which draws not much of a paying crowd, could be dropped at UND and still be in compliance.
Didn't I read that the mens team actually bleeds more money than the womens?

[344Johnson]

Didn't I read that the mens team actually bleeds more money than the womens?

They spend a couple million bucks on "rent." The whole bill is allocated to the men's team.

College athletics accounting shows whatever you want it to.

[clenz]

They spend a couple million bucks on "rent." The whole bill is allocated to the men's team.

College athletics accounting shows whatever you want it to.
Oh, I know athletic departments are nothing other than numbers games to show only what you want for good or bad.

I just wasn't aware the entire rent was charged to the men. That could be the reason for the numbers I saw then

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Didn't I read that the mens team actually bleeds more money than the womens?


I don't know. My brother-in-law has a suite at the Ralph and pays over 30K/year to have it. Probably safe to say the men's program is probably in the black...my guess. The men's hockey program brings in a ton of money for the school. Maybe one of these UND guys knows the numbers.

[Mayville Bison]

Nice...

According to Craig Haley, UNI no longer plays in the MVFC. Turns out we don't need to deal with this bull**** anymore

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20170126110256991647504&ref=rec&tm=&src=FCS

That sure would help explain why UND is being looked at. #UNItoPFL

Hypothetically, if UNI were to go no schollys and move to the Pioneer (yes, I know this would never happen), would the remaining MVC schools be enough to entice the Summit schools to stay or would they now start Summit League football?

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

I don't know. My brother-in-law has a suite at the Ralph and pays over 30K/year to have it. Probably safe to say the men's program is probably in the black...my guess. The men's hockey program brings in a ton of money for the school. Maybe one of these UND guys knows the numbers. Brings in with concessions including largest bar in state and seat tickets costs excluding the donation parts of season tickets, around a $1/2M per game. Then consider there is 3 times as many hockey games vs. FB games.

[Bisonator]

Nice...

According to Craig Haley, UNI no longer plays in the MVFC. Turns out we don't need to deal with this bull**** anymore

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20170126110256991647504&ref=rec&tm=&src=FCS
Yep now we know why they're adding UND. Apparently UNI has dropped their FB program! Damn you panthers!xlolx

[clenz]

Yep now we know why they're adding UND. Apparently UNI has dropped their FB program! Damn you panthers!xlolx
We kept tell you we wanted nothing to do with an 11 team set up

You forced our hand.

[Bisonator]

We kept tell you we wanted nothing to do with an 11 team set up

You forced our hand.
I'm sure the fact that you were down to 3 coaches on staff and the current recruiting **** show had nothing to do with it. :D

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

They spend a couple million bucks on "rent." The whole bill is allocated to the men's team.

College athletics accounting shows whatever you want it to. No rent paid, building was paid for in full before the first puck was dropped. Those numbers that were brought up were accounting misfires to show a different result.

[clenz]

I'm sure the fact that you were down to 3 coaches on staff and the current recruiting **** show had nothing to do with it. :D
Technically speaking we've officially only lost 3 coaches - 2 to FBS programs and one fired.

I've heard a rumor that one that was rumored to be gone to an FBS is staying and getting a promotion.
One that was rumored to be leaving I have no follow up on and is still listed
One is rumored to have retied but who knows

We are still down a few coaches though. That is true.

[Bisonator]

Technically speaking we've officially only lost 3 coaches - 2 to FBS programs and one fired.

I've heard a rumor that one that was rumored to be gone to an FBS is staying and getting a promotion.
One that was rumored to be leaving I have no follow up on and is still listed
One is rumored to have retied but who knows

We are still down a few coaches though. That is true.
Lol well as long as Farley knows WTF is going on......oh waitxlolx

[Drblankstare]

Lol well as long as Farley knows WTF is going on......oh waitxlolx

There is an alternate universe out there where Farley, hired a competent OC, stayed out of his way, focused on the Defense and UNI has like 3 Natty's.

[Laker]

Tom Miller‏@tommillergf (https://twitter.com/tommillergf) Follow

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There is no buyout from the Big Sky but UND has to pay 300K to MVFC and 250K to Summit League for entry fee.

[centennial]

Lol well as long as Farley knows WTF is going on......oh waitxlolx
#firefarley

[344Johnson]

No rent paid, building was paid for in full before the first puck was dropped. Those numbers that were brought up were accounting misfires to show a different result.

Operations costs then. I've heard many UND folks call it a rental expense. Whatever words you want to use, the men's hockey team is apparently absorbing the entire cost. I'll try to find the pdf later.

[nodak651]

Operations costs then. I've heard many UND folks call it a rental expense. Whatever words you want to use, the men's hockey team is apparently absorbing the entire cost. I'll try to find the pdf later. If you could post it, that would be great. I know it's a pain in the ass to find. Pretty sure M Hockey covers men's and women's basketball facility expenses as well, if I remember correctly. I also think game day expenses have a separate line item.

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

Operations costs then. I've heard many UND folks call it a rental expense. Whatever words you want to use, the men's hockey team is apparently absorbing the entire cost. I'll try to find the pdf later. MH and alumni/fan donations are paying most bills. BB, VB and FB help.

[BisonTru]

On UND Men's/Women's Hockey:

It's either Hammerhead or Hammersmith that do a good rundown of UND's situation. From what I can remember from what they've posted in the past, UND funds their Men's hockey team at some of the highest levels in the nation. Probably easily top 10% maybe even top 5%. So in order to stay Title IX compliant they must fund a women's sport at a similar level. Right now, that's women's hockey. They can share the same state of the art facilities and make sure they are at the top of the nation in spending on women's hockey.

If they dropped women's hockey they would need to fund a women's sport say track and field to some of the highest levels in the nation. With that they would be competing with the Alabamas, Ohio States, Oregons to stay funded at comparable levels. Some of those schools have a tough time spending all their budget. I doubt UND wants to compete with that.

[Bisonoline]

Looks like the BSC couldnt wait to get rid of the Fn Hawks.

You want to leave the BSC? Bye good luck.
Early exit penalty? No. Nothing needed. Just go.

xlolx

[nodak651]

I think this is the most recently available financial doc, and it includes baseball. https://und.edu/president/_files/docs/ncaa-report-2015.pdf

[UNIFanSince1983]

Maybe I missed it somewhere. Why are other sports to the Summit in 2018, but waiting for football in MVFC until 2020?

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

On UND Men's/Women's Hockey:

It's either Hammerhead or Hammersmith that do a good rundown of UND's situation. From what I can remember from what they've posted in the past, UND funds their Men's hockey team at some of the highest levels in the nation. Probably easily top 10% maybe even top 5%. So in order to stay Title IX compliant they must fund a women's sport at a similar level. Right now, that's women's hockey. They can share the same state of the art facilities and make sure they are at the top of the nation in spending on women's hockey.

If they dropped women's hockey they would need to fund a women's sport say track and field to some of the highest levels in the nation. With that they would be competing with the Alabamas, Ohio States, Oregons to stay funded at comparable levels. Some of those schools have a tough time spending all their budget. I doubt UND wants to compete with that.
Your the closest to reality that I've seen a Bison fan explaining hockey at ND, and may I add, even better than a lot of UND fans. See you in the Hawk's Nest in 2020.

[Yote 53]

So on Sioux Falls radio they were saying there were 4 MVFC that were strongly in favor of adding UND and the rest were just okay with it. They pointed out the 4 strongly in favor included USD and SDSU but there was no mention of NDSU. They then used the rest of the segment discussing NDSU not coming out strongly in favor of this. I don't believe they mentioned who the other 2 schools who were strongly in favor of UND joining.

I don't blame NDSU for not being overly joyous about this. They held an exclusive position as the only school from NoDak in the MVFC. Now they have to share that prestige with UND. It was a competitive advantage the Bison held being a member of the superior conference and able to offer recruits a higher level of football than the F'Hawks were able to. Now UND has a place at the table and is on closer footing in the recruiting wars.

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

Maybe I missed it somewhere. Why are other sports to the Summit in 2018, but waiting for football in MVFC until 2020? Apparently the FB schedules are made out through 2019. So all UND teams except FB go to the Summit 2018-2119. FB stays in Big Sky two more years and then 2020-21 goes to MVFC. The last 2 years in Big Sky as an affliate, ND FB can not win conference auto bid. But, if they play that good, they'd be in the NT anyway as an at large.

[jacksfan29]

So on Sioux Falls radio they were saying there were 4 MVFC that were strongly in favor of adding UND and the rest were just okay with it. They pointed out the 4 strongly in favor included USD and SDSU but there was no mention of NDSU. They then used the rest of the segment discussing NDSU not coming out strongly in favor of this. I don't believe they mentioned who the other 2 schools who were strongly in favor of UND joining.

I don't blame NDSU for not being overly joyous about this. They held an exclusive position as the only school from NoDak in the MVFC. Now they have to share that prestige with UND. It was a competitive advantage the Bison held being a member of the superior conference and able to offer recruits a higher level of football than the F'Hawks were able to. Now UND has a place at the table and is on closer footing in the recruiting wars.

Seems odd that NDSU wouldn't be one of the 4 but it is possible. I have to say, if true the hatred between the North Dakota schools (even at the administrative level) is real.

A guess at the 4 if NDSU is not part of the group, SDSU, USD, WIU and... clenz will love this; UNI!!!

[Yote 53]

So now they are on the radio (Sioux Falls KWSN) talking about how one of the media personalities out of Fargo (didn't catch name, maybe Dom Izzo?) says that we should keep an eye on Indiana State and WIU as the issues they are having at those schools could force their programs out of the MFVC within the next two years. Options include dropping football or going non-scholarship.

Maybe that is the flip side to the coin that got UND into the MVFC now.

[abc123]

Looks like the BSC couldnt wait to get rid of the Fn Hawks.

You want to leave the BSC? Bye good luck.
Early exit penalty? No. Nothing needed. Just go.

xlolx
Or when UND joined the Big Sky it was agreed that that the exit fee would be waived as long as UND kept the Big Sky informed about any conference moves and gave plenty of notice, but whatever floats your boat.

From 2010:

If UND decides it isn’t rock solid with the agreement it signed Monday, which doesn’t require the school to be a Big Sky member for a minimum number of years, Fullerton said there could be a financial penalty. But only if UND goes about it “the wrong way.”

Fullerton didn’t explain what that way would be, but said if North Dakota was up front about all its dealings before an exit from the conference there would be no buyout fee.

If the school chose to seek a new conference home behind the Big Sky’s back, Fullerton said, it would be charged a buyout fee of $1 million.

[clenz]

Seems odd that NDSU wouldn't be one of the 4 but it is possible. I have to say, if true the hatred between the North Dakota schools (even at the administrative level) is real.

A guess at the 4 if NDSU is not part of the group, SDSU, USD, WIU and... clenz will love this; UNI!!!
UNI doesn't have a president. I'm guessing that UNI's vote was on the OK to potential abstain side of things.

[REALBird]

Seems odd that NDSU wouldn't be one of the 4 but it is possible. I have to say, if true the hatred between the North Dakota schools (even at the administrative level) is real.

A guess at the 4 if NDSU is not part of the group, SDSU, USD, WIU and... clenz will love this; UNI!!!

UND A.D. Brian Faison with ties to Illinois State. Wondering aloud how our AD voted.

[BisonTru]

https://twitter.com/DomIzzoWDAY/status/824701437569597440

https://twitter.com/FGOSPORTSWRITER/status/824712098475286528

https://twitter.com/FGOSPORTSWRITER/status/824712855756898304

https://twitter.com/FGOSPORTSWRITER/status/824712313496281089

https://twitter.com/DomIzzoWDAY/status/824712583932481538

[F'N Hawks]

The Big Five in the West play each other every year.

[clenz]

The Big Five in the West play each other every year.
No.

That's what the **** we don't want to happen.

It's the major reason I'm opposed to expansion no matter who the **** it was.

[jacksfan29]

That would make sense. I have to think NDSU was part of the 4. Let's be honest, the addition of UND to the Summit is a very positive thing. Four Summit members, four enthusiastic voices. The SF sports media have been known to be wrong, rather often.


UNI doesn't have a president. I'm guessing that UNI's vote was on the OK to potential abstain side of things.

[clenz]

That would make sense. I have to think NDSU was part of the 4. Let's be honest, the addition of UND to the Summit is a very positive thing. Four Summit members, four enthusiastic voices. The SF sports media have been known to be wrong, rather often.
If UNI has out last president still, I'm sure UNI may have been leading the charge. He had direct ties to UND. He was fired by the BOR after last school year. We've been without since last May.

Our new president starts in March I think.

[344Johnson]

My guess is NDSU, USD, SDSU, and WIU

[jacksfan29]

http://www.inforum.com/sports/4206490-und-mix-missouri-valley-conference-will-deal-new-scheduling-model#.WIp1LraxDMc.twitter

Kolpack with the quote from Patty. The Summit schools pushed for the inclusion of UND.

"We have four members.... who were anxious to get North Dakota into the Summit"


My guess is NDSU, USD, SDSU, and WIU

[Thumper 76]

No.

That's what the **** we don't want to happen.

It's the major reason I'm opposed to expansion no matter who the **** it was.
Its basically what Patty V told Kolpack in his article. Sounds to me like the Dakota schools and I would guess WIU agreed to let the western teams get screwed in scheduling in order to assure they get that 10th team in the Summit. She also damn near comes out and says those teams are gunna have a bitch of a time winning the conference title when she says "we know you don't need to win the conference to make the playoffs here".

In short, the Summit schools basically said **** our football teams, we're going to make life miserable for you in conference for our other sports. Deal with it. And UNI is going to get to be collateral damage from that. Only consolation will be seeing the UNDies only wins being against USeD and MSU for a while. Can't do dick about it now.

Sent from my RCT6303W87M7 using Tapatalk

[jacksfan29]

Stig basically said it out loud in a story Mick Garry wrote where he stated, it makes it harder and harder to survive...

http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/2017/01/25/north-dakota-summit-league-missouri-valley-return/97039830/


Its basically what Patty V told Kolpack in his article. Sounds to me like the Dakota schools and I would guess WIU agreed to let the western teams get screwed in scheduling in order to assure they get that 10th team in the Summit. She also damn near comes out and says those teams are gunna have a bitch of a time winning the conference title when she says "we know you don't need to win the conference to make the playoffs here".

In short, the Summit schools basically said **** our football teams, we're going to make life miserable for you in conference for our other sports. Deal with it. And UNI is going to get to be collateral damage from that. Only consolation will be seeing the UNDies only wins being against USeD and MSU for a while. Can't do dick about it now.

Sent from my RCT6303W87M7 using Tapatalk

[Thumper 76]

Stig basically said it out loud in a story Mick Garry wrote where he stated, it makes it harder and harder to survive...

http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/2017/01/25/north-dakota-summit-league-missouri-valley-return/97039830/
I bet the football staff at all those schools are pissed as hell. I am, and I'm not even the coach. Talk about giving YSU and ISUr the inside track to the title. EVERY. DAMN. YEAR.

Sent from my RCT6303W87M7 using Tapatalk

[jacksfan29]

I bet the football staff at all those schools are pissed as hell. I am, and I'm not even the coach. Talk about giving YSU and ISUr the inside track to the title. EVERY. DAMN. YEAR.

Sent from my RCT6303W87M7 using Tapatalk

Just a thought but what is to stop the conference from going to a BSC type of rivalry scheduling? Two rivals per school who you are guaranteed to play annually.

SDSU - NDSU, USD
NDSU - SDSU, UND
USD - SDSU, UND
UND - NDSU, USD
UNI - SIU, MSU

and so on. The other 6 games are rotated in. It would mean the eastern schools would be forced to come west twice every few years but holy crap, if they can't afford to travel west twice per year every few years maybe it is time to re-think their playing scholarship FB. It would also mean we, and NDSU would not see UNI every year but the reality is this type of scheduling would make more sense than the east west ideas floating around.

[IBleedYellow]

The fact that UNI, SDSU and NDSU fans are all agreeing and quoting each other tells me all we need to know.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[BisonTru]

I still like the idea of Summit league schools play each other every year. MVC teams play each other every year. Other four games are a rotation with the other league and YSU. YSU plays 4 summit teams, and 4 MVC teams.

[IBleedYellow]

I have better ideas.

MSU goes Sunbelt and we kick UND out of the Valley.

True round Robin.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[GodHelpTheBears]

I have better ideas.

MSU goes Sunbelt and we kick UND out of the Valley.

True round Robin.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I'll probably catch crap for this, but this is a reasonable solution if possible. It won't happen, though, because our alumni care more about basketball and the Belt is a basketball dumpster fire (not that we aren't, but still...)

[GetEmGriz]

Just a thought but what is to stop the conference from going to a BSC type of rivalry scheduling? Two rivals per school who you are guaranteed to play annually.

SDSU - NDSU, USD
NDSU - SDSU, UND
USD - SDSU, UND
UND - NDSU, USD
UNI - SIU, MSU

and so on. The other 6 games are rotated in. It would mean the eastern schools would be forced to come west twice every few years but holy crap, if they can't afford to travel west twice per year every few years maybe it is time to re-think their playing scholarship FB. It would also mean we, and NDSU would not see UNI every year but the reality is this type of scheduling would make more sense than the east west ideas floating around.

The type of scheduling that the Big Sky currently has really blows. You'll have teams who some years will get to avoid playing the traditional top teams and have a pretty easy pathway to the MVFC title. It's how Southern Utah was able to win the Big Sky in 2015 (didn't have to play Montana or Eastern Washington) and how UND won the Big Sky in 2016 (didn't have to play Montana or Eastern Washington).

The format sucks and if the MVFC goes the same way, you'll see for yourself. I really wish we could get rid of some teams and go back to a round-robin format.

[dbackjon]

I'll probably catch crap for this, but this is a reasonable solution if possible. It won't happen, though, because our alumni care more about basketball and the Belt is a basketball dumpster fire (not that we aren't, but still...)


Or YSU goes to the CAA

[SDFS]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24454&stc=1

The day USD joined and she screwed UND and the Big Sky

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24455&stc=1

The day UND joins she just mailed it in...

The pictures say it all.

[TheKingpin28]

This was the worst thing that could have happened. Unless 1 or 2 teams drop out and/or get kicked out, it just got a whole lot ****tier.

[geaux_sioux]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbIR51_J_qY

[centennial]

I suspect schools are skittish about either WIU, ISU, or Indiana State.

[Bisonator]

It's 3 years away. A lot can change in 3 years.;)

[BisonFan02]

I suspect schools are skittish about either WIU, ISU, or Indiana State.


It's 3 years away. A lot can change in 3 years.;)

Summit League Football.......borderline MVC members drop or go non-scholly. WIU and UNI are wild cards. I think there is alot of posturing going on....

It's no mystery that I would be much happier in an all sports conference. Football only rivals blow....and, especially in NDSU's case, the football playing members of the Summit would get more "play" in sports like men's bball and such....

[70MilesFromCanada]

Everyone needs to chill and grow a set. What a bunch of whiners. I'm sure someone will revive this thread after the 2020 season just to prove that 'doomsday' never happened. It's done. Get over it.

[DoWe]

I'll probably catch crap for this, but this is a reasonable solution if possible. It won't happen, though, because our alumni care more about basketball and the Belt is a basketball dumpster fire (not that we aren't, but still...)
I don't think MSU's alumni have anything to concern themselves with. Geographically MSU makes sense in the SB, but so do a lot of other schools. The SB appears to be building based on full members with demonstrated success at the FCS level. MSU doesn't bring that.

[OverratedGriz]

Northern Iowa,

Welcome to our new Dakota Football Conference.

[OverratedGriz]

Their fans are mainly arrogant..

Comes with decades of success.

[OverratedGriz]

In the last round didn't they receive something like $200m more than NDSU.

Takes a lot of money to run a world class university.

[nodak651]

Takes a lot of money to run a world class university. Why do you post comments that are so easily debatable? Troll account....

[OverratedGriz]

Why do you post comments that are so easily debatable?

Why do you care about me so much?
Are you new to message boards?

[Yote 53]

Just a thought but what is to stop the conference from going to a BSC type of rivalry scheduling? Two rivals per school who you are guaranteed to play annually.

SDSU - NDSU, USD
NDSU - SDSU, UND
USD - SDSU, UND
UND - NDSU, USD
UNI - SIU, MSU

and so on. The other 6 games are rotated in. It would mean the eastern schools would be forced to come west twice every few years but holy crap, if they can't afford to travel west twice per year every few years maybe it is time to re-think their playing scholarship FB. It would also mean we, and NDSU would not see UNI every year but the reality is this type of scheduling would make more sense than the east west ideas floating around.

Mark it down. One of the few times I will agree with a Jacks fan and give them credit for a good idea. This is the way things SHOULD happen. To further that illustration I think it would be possible to preserve 2 rivalry games each for the eastern schools and still make this idea workable.

[Professor Chaos]

Just a thought but what is to stop the conference from going to a BSC type of rivalry scheduling? Two rivals per school who you are guaranteed to play annually.

SDSU - NDSU, USD
NDSU - SDSU, UND
USD - SDSU, UND
UND - NDSU, USD
UNI - SIU, MSU

and so on. The other 6 games are rotated in. It would mean the eastern schools would be forced to come west twice every few years but holy crap, if they can't afford to travel west twice per year every few years maybe it is time to re-think their playing scholarship FB. It would also mean we, and NDSU would not see UNI every year but the reality is this type of scheduling would make more sense than the east west ideas floating around.


Mark it down. One of the few times I will agree with a Jacks fan and give them credit for a good idea. This is the way things SHOULD happen. To further that illustration I think it would be possible to preserve 2 rivalry games each for the eastern schools and still make this idea workable.
The problem with this theory is the math doesn't work out. In order to give every team two protected rivals you need 12 teams. With 11 teams you'd have to have two of them with only 1 protected rival.

[mmiller_34]

Mark it down. One of the few times I will agree with a Jacks fan and give them credit for a good idea. This is the way things SHOULD happen. To further that illustration I think it would be possible to preserve 2 rivalry games each for the eastern schools and still make this idea workable.

Yep. I agree Yotie.

Here is the other thing and I haven't spoken on this topic since the news broke. I like it. The MVFC is tough with or without UND. This past season:

EAST:

WIU was ranked in top 15
YSU was ranked in top 15 and went to the NC
ISU(R) was ranked (Did they crack the top 15?)
SIU was receiving votes at the beginning of the season
ISU(B) Just a couple years removed from a playoff win

WEST:
NDSU ranked consistently top 5
SDSU ranked consistently top 10
UNI started ranked top 15, then dropped out
USD cracked top 25 once
MSU not ranked, ever
UND ranked consistently top 15


I mean, to me, this move pretty much solidifies getting in to the playoffs at 7-4 and 6-5 much easier from the MVFC even if you're in the west. I don't get the big fuss. UNI's struggles the past couple years have nothing to do with UND, and I don't understand UNI fan's feeling that they can't compete; UNI consistently gets good athletes-- the coaches needs to quit beating themselves. I think its pretty clear that if your team finishes top 3 in the MVFC from the west the chances are pretty high of receiving a top 8 seed. Who gives a **** that a team from the east might receive the autobid easier.

Win your OOC & win 4-6 MVFC games. That is the formula to get into the playoffs.



** Side note -- I have a really hard time believing that this move has anything to do with future shuffles or dropped football programs. WIU is upgrading their football stadium so I doubt they are planning on axing football. Although, YSU leaving for the CAA might be a possibility, and Indiana State dropping football (honestly, I'd hate to see that) could happen too.

[jacksfan29]

Too much of a pain in the ass (and I have to work for a living) to run the model but how did the Big Sky do it with 13?

I figure the whizzes at the MVFC offices have three years to figure it out. They better get started because the geography based model would be a killer for anyone playing in the west.

[Bisonator]

I prefer the Summit/MVC split:

Summit - NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, WIU

MVC - UNI, SIU, ISUr, ISUb, MSU

Oddball - YSU

Not sure how you'd rotate for the other 4 games.

[clenz]

The more I think about geography based, and the attempting to force bus rides as much as possible the more I think we are looking at

The Dakota 4 plus Missouri State
The east of the Mississippi River schools
UNI as the floater between the two

MSU is a plane for everyone
All the Dakota's can bus each to each other

YSU is a plane for everyone on the east.
Terra Haute (the next most geographically outlaid can still be a bus:
SIU - 2:45
ISUr - 2:15
WIU - 3:45

UNI could be a bus for:
WIU: 3:30
ISUr: 4:05
USD - 4:10
SDSU - 5:00

West school schedule
2 west school home
2 west schools away
3 east schools home (UNI included in the east schools for the west)
2 east schools away (UNI included in the east schools for the west)
*rotate the 3/2 H/A for the east

East school schedule
2 east school home
2 east schools road
3 west schools away (UNI included in the east schools for the west)
2 west schools home (UNI included in the east schools for the west)

UNI
Who cares? The MVFC has shown the amazing ability to **** UNI's conference schedule over repeatedly.

[clenz]

I prefer the Summit/MVC split:

Summit - NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, WIU

MVC - UNI, SIU, ISUr, ISUb, MSU

Oddball - YSU

Not sure how you'd rotate for the other 4 games.
I like that, the issue is YSU isn't geography based enough in the center to work it.

[Thumper 76]

Everyone needs to chill and grow a set. What a bunch of whiners. I'm sure someone will revive this thread after the 2020 season just to prove that 'doomsday' never happened. It's done. Get over it.

It's not doomsday, but it's certainly not awesome for a decent chunk of teams. I'd be ecstatic if I was a UND fan, this is a positive in pretty much every way for your school. Don't expect to have other schools excited about you coming in when you cause an already awkward number of teams to become worse and possibly causing an extreme imbalance in scheduling. Yeah, people won't be happy about it. Get over yourself. The only reason you go allowed in is because the Summit wants to have a 10th member and the Summit schools in the MVFC were willing to get the shaft in scheduling for it to happen. All you bring to the MVFC is making scheduling a much bigger pain in the ass than it already is. There is zero value as a conference to adding an 11th member when there's top to bottom strength like there is already. You don't bring a new market for recruiting, you really don't bring anything besides a rivalry game to NDSU and USeD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Professor Chaos]

Too much of a pain in the ass (and I have to work for a living) to run the model but how did the Big Sky do it with 13?

I figure the whizzes at the MVFC offices have three years to figure it out. They better get started because the geography based model would be a killer for anyone playing in the west.
Well, actually now that I think about it you're right.

If you split it into 3 groups this way you can make it work:
Group 1 - NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD
Group 2 - UNI, SIU, and MSU
Group 3 - WIU, IlSU, InSU, and YSU

Group 1 works out like you said in your original post.
Group 2 would be self explanatory since each team would play the other two.
Group 3 would be; WIU - IlSU and InSU, IlSU - WIU and YSU, InSU - WIU and YSU, YSU - IlSU and InSU

So you're right! xthumbsupx

Although might make more sense to put WIU in group 2 and SIU in group 3 but that's just semantics.

[Redbird007]

Yep. I agree Yotie.

Here is the other thing and I haven't spoken on this topic since the news broke. I like it. The MVFC is tough with or without UND. This past season:

EAST:

WIU was ranked in top 15
YSU was ranked in top 15 and went to the NC
ISU(R) was ranked (Did they crack the top 15?)
SIU was receiving votes at the beginning of the season
ISU(B) Just a couple years removed from a playoff win

WEST:
NDSU ranked consistently top 5
SDSU ranked consistently top 10
UNI started ranked top 15, then dropped out
USD cracked top 25 once
MSU not ranked, ever
UND ranked consistently top 15


I mean, to me, this move pretty much solidifies getting in to the playoffs at 7-4 and 6-5 much easier from the MVFC even if you're in the west. I don't get the big fuss. UNI's struggles the past couple years have nothing to do with UND, and I don't understand UNI fan's feeling that they can't compete; UNI consistently gets good athletes-- the coaches needs to quit beating themselves. I think its pretty clear that if your team finishes top 3 in the MVFC from the west the chances are pretty high of receiving a top 8 seed. Who gives a **** that a team from the east might receive the autobid easier.

Win your OOC & win 4-6 MVFC games. That is the formula to get into the playoffs.



** Side note -- I have a really hard time believing that this move has anything to do with future shuffles or dropped football programs. WIU is upgrading their football stadium so I doubt they are planning on axing football. Although, YSU leaving for the CAA might be a possibility, and Indiana State dropping football (honestly, I'd hate to see that) could happen too.

Why not use final rankings based upon actual results vs referencing preseason rankings with no games played and mid season rankings with only a partial season played? Strange data reference.

[Noryan34]

I don't get the geography argument to this. Only reason for that argument is the schools from the east can use it as a way to force the Dakota schools to play each other every year thus allowing them to avoid having to play NDSU, SDSU, and UNI every year. Adding UND adds a longer trip to everyones schedule except the 3 dakota schools.

As it looks now; the path to the playoffs is much easier if you don't have to play all 4 dakota schools in a single year. In this scenario (geography based) let's say ISUr plays (WIU,YSU, ISUb, SIU, MSU, UNI, USD) and UND plays (NDSU, SDSU, UNI, WIU, USD, MSU, ISUb). As it sits now I could see ISUr going 9-2 and UND going 8-3. Who makes playoffs given they both win all OOC games and no big differences in them. You let in a team with more conference losses than the other? Not happening even if SOS is unequal.

[Professor Chaos]

This would really piss off those who said this move overweighted the western part of the conference but you could even do that "protected rival" model with 4 teams each.

NDSU - SDSU, UND, USD, UNI
SDSU - NDSU, USD, UND, MSU
UND - NDSU, SDSU, USD, UNI
USD - NDSU, SDSU, UND, WIU
UNI - NDSU, UND, SIU, IlSU
SIU - UNI, MSU, WIU, InSU
MSU - SDSU, SIU, InSU, YSU
WIU - USD, SIU, IlSU, YSU
IlSU - UNI, WIU, InSU, YSU
InSU - YSU, MSU, SIU, IlSU
YSU - InSU, MSU, WIU, IlSU

That would leave each team to play 4 of the 6 remaining teams not protected each year.

[Redbird007]

Well, actually now that I think about it you're right.

If you split it into 3 groups this way you can make it work:
Group 1 - NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD
Group 2 - UNI, SIU, and MSU
Group 3 - WIU, IlSU, InSU, and YSU

Group 1 works out like you said in your original post.
Group 2 would be self explanatory since each team would play the other two.
Group 3 would be; WIU - IlSU and InSU, IlSU - WIU and YSU, InSU - WIU and YSU, YSU - IlSU and InSU

So you're right! xthumbsupx

Although might make more sense to put WIU in group 2 and SIU in group 3 but that's just semantics.

I am not clear on how the divisional grouping of teams really matters if there are two divisions grouped North/South, East/West, MVC/Summit or if there are 3 divisions? Each individual team will need to qualify on its own merits based upon its season's total results and not final conference standings? If a team happens to be in a tough division they can schedule a little lighter OOC and still have a good SOS. When it comes playoff selection time is the number of total victories the starting point for playoff determination that is then scrutinized by SOS? Some teams with 6 wins receive a tourney invite if they have a good seasons's body of work/SOS and some 8 win teams do not make it if they have a poor/weak seasons body of work. If all team just played all conference games then it would matter but usually there are at least 3 OOC games factored into playoff selection. Am I off in this logic?

Also given that the MVFC is a multi-bid league isn't the automatic birth more symbolic than meaningful? For example this past year NDSU had the higher playoff seed but SDSU received the automatic birth as the MVFC champ and was also seeded. The real point is that both teams would have easily made it into the playoffs without an automatic birth.

BTW i am not putting any value on winning the MVFC title as what really matters to me is how high ISU is placed when the ncaa tourney starts vs final standings in the MVFC.

[Redbird007]

This would really piss off those who said this move overweighted the western part of the conference but you could even do that "protected rival" model with 4 teams each.

NDSU - SDSU, UND, USD, UNI
SDSU - NDSU, USD, UND, MSU
UND - NDSU, SDSU, USD, UNI
USD - NDSU, SDSU, UND, WIU
UNI - NDSU, UND, SIU, IlSU
SIU - UNI, MSU, WIU, InSU
MSU - SDSU, SIU, InSU, YSU
WIU - USD, SIU, IlSU, YSU
IlSU - UNI, WIU, InSU, YSU
InSU - YSU, MSU, SIU, IlSU
YSU - InSU, MSU, WIU, IlSU

That would leave each team to play 4 of the 6 remaining teams not protected each year.

As logical as that may be I understand why you are Professor Chaos.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I don't get the geography argument to this. Only reason for that argument is the schools from the east can use it as a way to force the Dakota schools to play each other every year thus allowing them to avoid having to play NDSU, SDSU, and UNI every year. Adding UND adds a longer trip to everyones schedule except the 3 dakota schools.

I think you are missing actually the biggest point of this. MONEY is the biggest factor in the geography.

[Bisonator]

I don't think anyone is concerned about the top 2-3 teams making the PO field. It's the 3-5 teams and their resumes that will be concerning. If a team goes 5-3 against the perceived weaker schedule while another goes 4-4 through a gauntlet who is going to get the PO spot. Or will a 8-3 team from a lesser conference get the nod.

[Thumper 76]

I don't think anyone is concerned about the top 2-3 teams making the PO field. It's the 3-5 teams and their resumes that will be concerning. If a team goes 5-3 against the perceived weaker schedule while another goes 4-4 through a gauntlet who is going to get the PO spot. .

This. It will be a real tough one if they put in a team in over a team with a better record from their conference. Could you imagine the anger about that? Especially if they had comparable OOC records and opponents? Yikes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Noryan34]

I think you are missing actually the biggest point of this. MONEY is the biggest factor in the geography.

Ok you say money. So your saying the athletic budget of all these schools hinges on one less flight a year? On the flip side at this point what does UND bring to the table money wise? They are relatively new FCS program who has their own athletic budget problems. UND doesn't increase your conference visibility regionally or nationally. Natural rivalries increase awareness and visibility but no sides have shown an interest in seriously reviving any of the rivalries that UND represents. So to counter your point, besides the nominal entry fee, I fail to see how money seriously affects any school other than UND.

Yes this is cost savings for UND potentially, but that isn't the Summit of MVFC problem.

[Noryan34]

And to follow up. Who do you put in the now empty slot if it is one less trip? FBS schools no longer are scheduling FCS. Your likely already playing some geographical close rival. So you either 1) pay a DII school or 2) schedule H&H with other OOC FCS school completely negating the perceived saved monies from one less conference trip west.

If you play the same amount of conference games then all but 3 teams have added an longer trip to their schedule.

[clenz]

Outside of the B10 who isn't scheduling FCS schools?

[Bisonator]

How about 10 conference games, a true round robin plus 1 OOC game? I'll hang up and listen....xpopcornx

[Noryan34]

Outside of the B10 who isn't scheduling FCS schools?

B1G only ones that have mandated no FCS to my knowledge but Big12 just recently put into place that teams must schedule an OOC game against a power opponent. Thus removing more FCS opportunities, and you will see other conferences follow suit soon. Especially with the perceived strength that the B1G showed this year with so many teams in the top 25.

[clenz]

If a school doesn't leave we need a 12th.

I like the MVC/Summit split with YSU playing as the go between between the two divisions. The problem there is having the go between being the furthest outlier do it. \
The same type of format works if it's E/W with UNI (who is almost nuts on the geo mid point) do it.

A 12th team would mean we could go 4 3 team pods. Play 1 home and 1 road game from each pod. BEST case would be WSU being happy at the FCS level or Drake willing to play scholarship ball.

We would have to split the Dakotas but deal with it

Pod 1: NDSU SDSU UND
Pod 2: USD MSU WSU/Drake
Pod 3: UNI WIU SIU
Pod 4: ISUR ISUB YSU

If it was an east school it would be

Pod 1: NDSU SDSU UND
Pod 2: USD MSU UNI
Pod 3: ISUr WIU SIU
Pod 4: ISUB YSU new school

Unless that school is EIU. The rivalry with ISUr is too good so it'd be

Pod 1: NDSU SDSU UND
Pod 2: USD MSU UNI
Pod 3: ISUr WIU EIU
Pod 4: ISUB YSU SIU

[clenz]

How about 10 conference games, a true round robin plus 1 OOC game? I'll hang up and listen....xpopcornx
Why not?

At this point it's not the worst idea on the table.

[Laker]

If a school doesn't leave we need a 12th.

Which schools could seriously be considered for joining the MVFC? I see that EIU was mentioned- who else?

[clenz]

Which schools could seriously be considered for joining the MVFC? I see that EIU was mentioned- who else?
I don't know that there is one, to be honest.

EIU is pure bull crap speculation simply because of rivalries with ISUr and WIU as well as long history with UNI, SIU and ISUb.

I've long longed for Drake to step up. It'd be a GREAT rival for UNI. Keeps the footprint exactly the same. It's part of the reason I always look for the downfall of the PFL. It's going to force Drake to cut football or step up to the MVFC.

I don't see a 12th.

Most likely is YSU going east for another membership change.

[Noryan34]

Which schools could seriously be considered for joining the MVFC? I see that EIU was mentioned- who else?

Not sure there are any others that make a lot of sense. Maybe the Butler game at Target Field is a prelude to enticing them to join the league.

[clenz]

Not sure there are any others that make a lot of sense. Maybe the Butler game at Target Field is a prelude to enticing them to join the league.Have them have to allocate money away from their Big East basketball program?

Nope.

[Bisonator]

Not sure there are any others that make a lot of sense. Maybe the Butler game at Target Field is a prelude to enticing them to join the league.
No.:(

[Bisonator]

I'd rather lose 2 members then add another. Maybe ISUb decides to go to the PFL and MSU heads for the Sunbelch.xprayx

[Noryan34]

No.:(

Hey I never said it was a good idea :D

I agree with what was said earlier and if another shift in conference is to happen, it likely is YSU leaving for a different conference (CAA? OVC?)

[clenz]

I'd rather lose 2 members then add another. Maybe ISUb decides to go to the PFL and MSU heads for the Sunbelch.xprayx
Yep, but it needs to be someone dropping football or moving PFL.

MSU moving to the Sun Belt could cause shifting in the MVC that would be bad for most.

ISUb going PFL would be ideal.

[Bisonator]

Yep, but it needs to be someone dropping football or moving PFL.

MSU moving to the Sun Belt could cause shifting in the MVC that would be bad for most.

ISUb going PFL would be ideal.
Would they consider FB only?

[clenz]

Would they consider FB only?
Would the SBC do that?

[BisonFan02]

Outside of the B10 who isn't scheduling FCS schools?

The Southland.

[BisonFan02]

Would the SBC do that?

No. Only carrot they have is facilities and being able to tag the MVC label to their non-football sports.

[Bisonator]

Would the SBC do that?
No idea just spitballin

[BisonTru]

The Southland.

xlolx True.

[Bison56]

It's not doomsday, but it's certainly not awesome for a decent chunk of teams. I'd be ecstatic if I was a UND fan, this is a positive in pretty much every way for your school. Don't expect to have other schools excited about you coming in when you cause an already awkward number of teams to become worse and possibly causing an extreme imbalance in scheduling. Yeah, people won't be happy about it. Get over yourself. The only reason you go allowed in is because the Summit wants to have a 10th member and the Summit schools in the MVFC were willing to get the shaft in scheduling for it to happen. All you bring to the MVFC is making scheduling a much bigger pain in the ass than it already is. There is zero value as a conference to adding an 11th member when there's top to bottom strength like there is already. You don't bring a new market for recruiting, you really don't bring anything besides a rivalry game to NDSU and USeD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They also bring a lot of arrogance.

[Yote 53]

In this scenario (geography based) let's say ISUr plays (WIU,YSU, ISUb, SIU, MSU, UNI, USD) and UND plays (NDSU, SDSU, UNI, WIU, USD, MSU, ISUb). As it sits now I could see ISUr going 9-2 and UND going 8-3.

Umm, if UND had to play the schedule of NDSU, SDSU, UNI, USD, MSU, and ISUb they would manage 1 win out of that group next season.

[70MilesFromCanada]

They also bring a lot of arrogance.

We should fit right in!

[centennial]

They also bring a lot of arrogance.
They are about the worst fan base I've interacted with. I just want nothing to do with them. Plus the stupid Sioux chants will come back now.

[Bison56]

We should fit right in!

Yeah, just what the MVFC needed, a team to lower the SOS.

- - - Updated - - -


They are about the worst fan base I've interacted with. I just want nothing to do with them. Plus the stupid Sioux chants will come back now.

Exactly xnodx

[clenz]

Umm, if UND had to play the schedule of NDSU, SDSU, UNI, USD, MSU, and ISUb they would manage 1 win out of that group next season.
Exactly.

I might give them 2.5 as the O/U

NDSU - L
SDSU - L
USD - L
UNI - L 60/40
ISUb - 50/50
MSU - W

[mmiller_34]

Why not use final rankings based upon actual results vs referencing preseason rankings with no games played and mid season rankings with only a partial season played? Strange data reference.

Sorry. I didn't think I had to be clearer. My point was that there were more teams that experienced success throughout the season, not just teams in the west. YSU, ISU(r), WIU, and SIU are no slouches and I don't see the addition of UND who is probably on par, or even below, the performance level of some of these teams creates such a dramatic focus of 'power' or competitive imbalance.

Again. Win OOC and 4-6 MVFC games and you'll be in the playoffs.

[Bison56]

I don't get the geography argument to this. Only reason for that argument is the schools from the east can use it as a way to force the Dakota schools to play each other every year thus allowing them to avoid having to play NDSU, SDSU, and UNI every year. Adding UND adds a longer trip to everyones schedule except the 3 dakota schools.

As it looks now; the path to the playoffs is much easier if you don't have to play all 4 dakota schools in a single year. In this scenario (geography based) let's say ISUr plays (WIU,YSU, ISUb, SIU, MSU, UNI, USD) and UND plays (NDSU, SDSU, UNI, WIU, USD, MSU, ISUb). As it sits now I could see ISUr going 9-2 and UND going 8-3. Who makes playoffs given they both win all OOC games and no big differences in them. You let in a team with more conference losses than the other? Not happening even if SOS is unequal.

https://media.tenor.co/images/29eb45b8a3f29b524562476186ad1bc0/raw (https://www.tenor.co/view/adele-laughing-funny-gif-5194228)

[Noryan34]

Exactly.

I might give them 2.5 as the O/U

NDSU - L
SDSU - L
USD - L
UNI - L 60/40
ISUb - 50/50
MSU - W

So around 7-4, 8-3. Exactly my point. Say they go 7-4 and west team goes 8-3 or 9-2 but doesn't play NDSU, SDSU, UNI or USD. Who gets in? If it was this year the SOS of the 7-4 team would be higher than the 8-3, 9-2 team from the same conference.

Regionalizing the mathups won't hurt the conferences top 2 maybe 3 teams. Come playoff time it will get weird figuring out who to put in on the at large/unseeded line if they go with a regionalized schedule. I am not a fan of regionlizing the conference since it is unbalanced now. Again all speculation since the may add/drop a team and we have no idea what schedules will look like.

[clenz]

So around 7-4, 8-3. Exactly my point. Say they go 7-4 and west team goes 8-3 or 9-2 but doesn't play NDSU, SDSU, UNI or USD. Who gets in? If it was this year the SOS of the 7-4 team would be higher than the 8-3, 9-2 team from the same conference.

Regionalizing the mathups won't hurt the conferences top 2 maybe 3 teams. Come playoff time it will get weird figuring out who to put in on the at large/unseeded line if they go with a regionalized schedule. I am not a fan of regionlizing the conference since it is unbalanced now. Again all speculation since the may add/drop a team and we have no idea what schedules will look like.
I have 5 losses there, best case 4.

You'd have to go 7-0 the rest of the year to get to 7-4.

Realistic schedule for UND is

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UNI
MSU
WIU
ISUr
YSU

You aren't getting 6 conference wins out of that. Not even ****ing close

This isn't the Big Sky. You won't get UNC, Sac Stat, UC Davis, etc... anymore.

[F'N Hawks]

They also bring a lot of arrogance.

Coming from an NDSU fan. My gawd.

[F'N Hawks]

Umm, if UND had to play the schedule of NDSU, SDSU, UNI, USD, MSU, and ISUb they would manage 1 win out of that group next season.

No doubt about it. UND beats one team on that list every time they play them.

[clenz]

No doubt about it. UND beats one team on that list every time they play them.
The one that shut you out 2 years ago when they lost to MVFC teams by an average of 35 points?

[F'N Hawks]

The one that shut you out 2 years ago when they lost to MVFC teams by an average of 35 points?

Yah, great point. That UND team was really good. You're smart.

Almost like they had a new coach, systems, and everything...oh, and ****ty players.

[clenz]

Yah, great point. That UND team was really good. You're smart.

Almost like they had a new coach, systems, and everything...oh, and ****ty players.
Almost like MSU had a new coach, new system, new everythin...oh, and ****ty players.


EDIT
I lied...they had a lame duck coach that hadn't been able to recruit for 3 years because everyone knew he was a lame duck coach


EDIT 2

UND also managed 3 wins that year in the Big Sky Conference and 2 other games were less than 2 TD games. They were close to 5 Big Sky wins that year. You won't get that compeition in the MVFC

[Bisonator]

No doubt about it. UND beats one team on that list every time they play them.
OK I'll bite, who would that be? This should be good.xlolx

[clenz]

OK I'll bite, who would that be? This should be good.xlolx
I'll grant him MSU, but not every time.

UND didn't play a single team that won more than 7 games last year.

[F'N Hawks]

OK I'll bite, who would that be? This should be good.xlolx

Nobody, I lied. UND won't win a game, well, maybe one.

[Noryan34]

I don't get the geography argument to this. Only reason for that argument is the schools from the east can use it as a way to force the Dakota schools to play each other every year thus allowing them to avoid having to play NDSU, SDSU, and UNI every year. Adding UND adds a longer trip to everyones schedule except the 3 dakota schools.

As it looks now; the path to the playoffs is much easier if you don't have to play all 4 dakota schools in a single year. In this scenario (geography based) let's say ISUr plays (WIU,YSU, ISUb, SIU, MSU, UNI, USD) and UND plays (NDSU, SDSU, UNI, WIU, USD, MSU, ISUb). As it sits now I could see ISUr going 9-2 and UND going 8-3. Who makes playoffs given they both win all OOC games and no big differences in them. You let in a team with more conference losses than the other? Not happening even if SOS is unequal.


But hey no need to read the original post when trying to make your point xcoffeex


So UND wins there 3 OOC games and goes 4-4 in conference. Which is not a stretch; and they go 7-4. So sqaubble away for that extra loss and they are 6-5 playing a tough conference schedule. Do they get in before a team that is say 8-3 playing a weaker conference schedule? I say no way given that the OOC games are equal.

Don't get me wrong I found as much joy as a person could in there first round meltdown this year.:)

But you could replace UND with USD for this argument. Does a 7-4,6-5 USD get into the playoffs having played (NDSU, SDSU, UNI) over a 8-3 team from the same conference that played (UNI) ? Barring the rest of the schedule is similar. Again I say the team with the better record gets in. Which is why I would be against regionalizing the schedules.

[clenz]

Stony Brook 5-6
South Dakota (2OT) 4-7...3 MVFC wins and only 1 of those wins was a team with a winning record. Probably their best win
Montana State 4-7
Cal Poly - 7-5
Sac State - 2-6
Idaho State - 2-9
Weber State - 7-5
Northern Colardo - 6-5
Northern Arizona - 5-6

[centennial]

Nobody, I lied. UND won't win a game, well, maybe one.
All this hubris. Ask USD how hard the valley is. The same team you barely beat last year as the Big Sky champions, they were a 4-7 team in the MVFC.

[clenz]

But hey no need to read the original post when trying to make your point xcoffeex


So UND wins there 3 OOC games and goes 4-4 in conference. Which is not a stretch; and they go 7-4. So sqaubble away for that extra loss and they are 6-5 playing a tough conference schedule. Do they get in before a team that is say 8-3 playing a weaker conference schedule? I say no way given that the OOC games are equal.

Don't get me wrong I found as much joy as a person could in there first round meltdown this year.:)

But you could replace UND with USD for this argument. Does a 7-4,6-5 USD get into the playoffs having played (NDSU, SDSU, UNI) over a 8-3 team from the same conference that played (UNI) ? Barring the rest of the schedule is similar. Again I say the team with the better record gets in. Which is why I would be against regionalizing the schedules.
Based on what I've seen it's completely fair to say USD and UND are very similar in talent.

USD is 9-31 in the MVFC since they joined. It's fair to assume UND and USD have similar results - remember, winless MVFC USD teams pushed Montana to their limit at Montana and beat top of the Big Sky finishers (NAU) in those years.

Who is UND playing in those OOC games? Are they going YSU's route of all NEC and PFL schools, their total wins means little. YSU has been left out with 7 and 8 wins because of their OOC SOS and .500 MVFC finishes.

[F'N Hawks]

Based on what I've seen it's completely fair to say USD and UND are very similar in talent.

USD is 9-31 in the MVFC since they joined. It's fair to assume UND and USD have similar results - remember, winless MVFC USD teams pushed Montana to their limit at Montana and beat top of the Big Sky finishers (NAU) in those years.

Who is UND playing in those OOC games? Are they going YSU's route of all NEC and PFL schools, their total wins means little. YSU has been left out with 7 and 8 wins because of their OOC SOS and .500 MVFC finishes.

You seem concerned with convincing everyone.

UNI just lost to USD and USD sucks. So that means UNI sucks. So slot them below UND, as well. I mean, cause that's how it works.

[clenz]

You seem concerned with convincing everyone.

UNI just lost to USD and USD sucks. So that means UNI sucks. So slot them below UND, as well. I mean, cause that's how it works.
Yep. UNI wasn't real good last year.

Maybe won't be very good this year.

They're still better than UND

UNI still finished with more conference wins and more overall wins than USD

[Noryan34]

Based on what I've seen it's completely fair to say USD and UND are very similar in talent.

USD is 9-31 in the MVFC since they joined. It's fair to assume UND and USD have similar results - remember, winless MVFC USD teams pushed Montana to their limit at Montana and beat top of the Big Sky finishers (NAU) in those years.

Who is UND playing in those OOC games? Are they going YSU's route of all NEC and PFL schools, their total wins means little. YSU has been left out with 7 and 8 wins because of their OOC SOS and .500 MVFC finishes.

So your agreeing with me? My point isn't comparing MVFC teams to other conferences it was just in-conference. Saying two teams have similarly weak OOC schedules but both go 3-0 or 4-0 depending on how they do scheduling with 11 teams. One team goes 4-4 in conference with the hardest conference schedule but the other goes 5-3 playing a much weaker conference schedule. Who makes the playoffs first. I say the 8-3 team gets in because of conference wins.

I use east/west because of the geography argument for upcoming conference schedules and the perception that the west would be the stronger half. Arguing UND and ISUr scenarios was just an easy jumping off point because of their location and assumed difference in schedules based on regionalizing conference games.

[Yote 53]

All this hubris. Ask USD how hard the valley is. The same team you barely beat last year as the Big Sky champions, they were a 4-7 team in the MVFC.

Let's just put it this way, UND is going to be in for a rude awakening.

We thought we were building momentum and would be successful upon joining the MVFC, then reality set in. We had to do a complete overhaul and hire a new coach. Even in the midst of that overhaul last year UND lucked out in beating us in 2OT's in GF last year. USD was beating them like a drum until we decided to commit Harry Carey and start gifting UND easy touchdowns on turnovers. Okay so the F'Hawkers won the game, sure, but you had your hands full with a teams that scraped themselves to a 3 win conference season, but hey, still beat UNI, so we had that going for us. Actually, USD played some pretty good ball and the games were competitive, lots of close losses.

Fine, don't believe me. Reality will set in after your first season here.

[F'N Hawks]

Let's just put it this way, UND is going to be in for a rude awakening.

We thought we were building momentum and would be successful upon joining the MVFC, then reality set in. We had to do a complete overhaul and hire a new coach. Even in the midst of that overhaul last year UND lucked out in beating us in 2OT's in GF last year. USD was beating them like a drum until we decided to commit Harry Carey and start gifting UND easy touchdowns on turnovers. Okay so the F'Hawkers won the game, sure, but you had your hands full with a teams that scraped themselves to a 3 win conference season, but hey, still beat UNI, so we had that going for us. Actually, USD played some pretty good ball and the games were competitive, lots of close losses.

Fine, don't believe me. Reality will set in after your first season here.

Cool beans, see you in four years. Until then let's all speculate.

[Noryan34]

Cool beans, see you in three years. Until then let's all speculate.

It's fun isn't it?xdrunkyx

This is like sports dead week. No CFB, Superbowl a week away. CBB tourney a month away and Spring Training still several weeks out. We need to do something to pass the time. Might as well argue about 100% hypotheticals.

[clenz]

Let's just put it this way, UND is going to be in for a rude awakening.

We thought we were building momentum and would be successful upon joining the MVFC, then reality set in. We had to do a complete overhaul and hire a new coach. Even in the midst of that overhaul last year UND lucked out in beating us in 2OT's in GF last year. USD was beating them like a drum until we decided to commit Harry Carey and start gifting UND easy touchdowns on turnovers. Okay so the F'Hawkers won the game, sure, but you had your hands full with a teams that scraped themselves to a 3 win conference season, but hey, still beat UNI, so we had that going for us. Actually, USD played some pretty good ball and the games were competitive, lots of close losses.

Fine, don't believe me. Reality will set in after your first season here.
Remember NDSU circa 2007? Then NDSU circa 2008-2010?

[F'N Hawks]

Remember UND circa 2019? Me neither.

[Yotes21]

UND and USD were close last season. Having the game at UND helped a little including the meltdown by the Yotes. USD biggest conference loss last year was 30-20 @ Youngstown and lost by 7 to NDSU, @SDSTC, @SIU (worst loss of the year IMO), and by 1 pt to WIU. They also won their games by close margins. USD is improving and at least is not the whipping boy they were losing 30+. Yay moral victories!

[F'N Hawks]

The nice thing for UND is that Bubba spent 6 years in the Missouri Valley. So now they have three more recruiting classes to try to shift the roster to get compete in that league.

[Professor Chaos]

I think UND is going to regret not hiring "Chuck the pigskin" guy by about 2022.

[Redbird007]

Sorry. I didn't think I had to be clearer. My point was that there were more teams that experienced success throughout the season, not just teams in the west. YSU, ISU(r), WIU, and SIU are no slouches and I don't see the addition of UND who is probably on par, or even below, the performance level of some of these teams creates such a dramatic focus of 'power' or competitive imbalance.

Again. Win OOC and 4-6 MVFC games and you'll be in the playoffs.

Got it and agree.

[jacksfan29]

All this hubris. Ask USD how hard the valley is. The same team you barely beat last year as the Big Sky champions, they were a 4-7 team in the MVFC.

No weeks off from physical play in the MVFC. And then you have UNI and NDSU. Win or lose you get physically pounded for four quarters by those two teams. There is a reason that, when asked, several MVFC coaches including Stig and Klieman told Kolpack they wanted nothing to do with a 9 game conference schedule.

[70MilesFromCanada]

I have 5 losses there, best case 4.

You'd have to go 7-0 the rest of the year to get to 7-4.

Realistic schedule for UND is

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UNI
MSU
WIU
ISUr
YSU

You aren't getting 6 conference wins out of that. Not even ****ing close

This isn't the Big Sky. You won't get UNC, Sac Stat, UC Davis, etc... anymore.

This conference switch should be sold gold for you comparison freaks.
If UND can remain competitive in the Big Sky for the next three years (big if I know) you will get an immediate reflection of BS vs MV in 2020.
It's going to be more head-to-head games in 2020 vs a former BS team than the past several years.
If UND goes .500 or better I would think it would answer some of the "what ifs" in this thread.
I can wait. I have waited 10+ years. Another 3 could and we could be in year 4 of the new JMU dynasty.

[centennial]

This conference switch should be sold gold for you comparison freaks.
If UND can remain competitive in the Big Sky for the next three years (big if I know) you will get an immediate reflection of BS vs MV in 2020.
It's going to be more head-to-head games in 2020 vs a former BS team than the past several years.
If UND goes .500 or better I would think it would answer some of the "what ifs" in this thread.
I can wait. I have waited 10+ years. Another 3 could and we could be in year 4 of the new JMU dynasty.
Keep wishing.

[GodHelpTheBears]

If UND is bringing the team they brought to Plaster Stadium a couple of years back, they are in serious trouble. That was the worst NCAA team I have ever seen in person, and I've been going to MSU games over the past 15 years.

You have to be a special kind of crappy to lose 38-0 to a Terry Allen-coached team.

[F'N Hawks]

If UND is bringing the team they brought to Plaster Stadium a couple of years back, they are in serious trouble. That was the worst NCAA team I have ever seen in person, and I've been going to MSU games over the past 15 years.

You have to be a special kind of crappy to lose 38-0 to a Terry Allen-coached team.

Yep, that's the team showing up in 2020. Sorry in advance.

[GodHelpTheBears]

Yep, that's the team showing up in 2020. Sorry in advance.

Listen, I know it was the start of a rebuild for your program, but it is not a good look. We do not field good football teams (you will see that September 9), but if your team struggles against ours, it is a bad sign for the future because we have the worst program in the conference. The degree of difficulty in this league escalates rapidly and dramatically from us.

[geaux_sioux]

I just hope we can win a conference game, ever.

[70MilesFromCanada]

I just hope we can win a conference game, ever.

Our only hope is those 'soft' eastern MV teams. There is no way we will ever beat a western team (except USD when we play them at home). Well, maybe Fargoville will be down like this year and lose a couple of games. I think Alabama will be good again someday too. AND 2020 will be a presidential election year so .......

[BucBisonAtLarge]

God bless you guys for heating up the winter doldrums around here.
xpopcornx

[barnwintersportsengelstad]

Thank You all for letting us in the MVFC.

[Bisonoline]

Or when UND joined the Big Sky it was agreed that that the exit fee would be waived as long as UND kept the Big Sky informed about any conference moves and gave plenty of notice, but whatever floats your boat.

From 2010:

Thats a pretty wishy washy agreement. It looks like they werent exactly sold on each other.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Our only hope is those 'soft' eastern MV teams. There is no way we will ever beat a western team (except USD when we play them at home). Well, maybe Fargoville will be down like this year and lose a couple of games. I think Alabama will be good again someday too. AND 2020 will be a presidential election year so .......


I'm sure with GFCC being the reigning BSC champ, they'll come right in and dominate the Valley. Go Bubbles!!

[F'N Hawks]

I'm sure with GFCC being the reigning BSC champ, they'll come right in and dominate the Valley. Go Bubbles!!

UND already won the 2019 Big Sky title. Yes!!!!

[F'N Hawks]

According to a few on BV and SS, NDSU won't be in the Missouri Valley in 2020. They are working behind the scenes to move up to the MWC or maybe higher. Who knows.

[BisonFan02]

According to a few on BV and SS, NDSU won't be in the Missouri Valley in 2020. They are working behind the scenes to move up to the MWC or maybe higher. Who knows.

Consider the source.

Speaking of SS, when are they going to change the name of it?

[TheKingpin28]

Consider the source.

Speaking of SS, when are they going to change the name of it?

when darrell comes back to AGS

[POD Knows]

Consider the source.

Speaking of SS, when are they going to change the name of it?

Hell, have they even put the new logo on their hockey jerseys yet, I don't think so.

[Bisonoline]

According to a few on BV and SS, NDSU won't be in the Missouri Valley in 2020. They are working behind the scenes to move up to the MWC or maybe higher. Who knows.

They dont have clue and are talking out of their ass. Just like many do on your board as well.

[F'N Hawks]

They dont have clue and are talking out of their ass. Just like many do on your board as well.

Many? Or one?

[POD Knows]

They dont have clue and are talking out of their ass. Just like many do on your board as well.

Yea, they think the Summit move is a step down from that powerhouse Men's BB conference, The Big Sky.

[TheKingpin28]

Yea, they think the Summit move is a step down from that powerhouse Men's BB conference, The Big Fluffy.

FYP

[Bisonoline]

Yea, they think the Summit move is a step down from that powerhouse Men's BB conference, The Big Sky.

They have been bad mouthing the conference since day one and now they look at it as good move for them.

[underdawg]

Anyway--welcome to the League UND

[UNDColorado]

The type of scheduling that the Big Sky currently has really blows. You'll have teams who some years will get to avoid playing the traditional top teams and have a pretty easy pathway to the MVFC title. It's how Southern Utah was able to win the Big Sky in 2015 (didn't have to play Montana or Eastern Washington) and how UND won the Big Sky in 2016 (didn't have to play Montana or Eastern Washington).

The format sucks and if the MVFC goes the same way, you'll see for yourself. I really wish we could get rid of some teams and go back to a round-robin format.

This argument is stale because as it turned out, Montana wasn't very good. EWU would have throttled us though so I will give you partial credit.

[F'N Hawks]

Anyway--welcome to the League UND

Thanks, Dawg. xdrunkyx

[SactoHornetFan]

Quick question, what are the abbreviations ISUr and ISUb?

[clenz]

Quick question, what are the abbreviations ISUr and ISUb?
ISUr = ISU Red = Illinois State due to their main color being red. Also called IlSU
ISUb = ISU Blue = Indiana State due to their main color being blue. Also called InSU
ISUo = ISU Orange = Idaho State due to their main color being orange (well, black but B is already taken). Also called IdSU

Then, for those of us in the midwest there is also Iowa State, also ISU. I generally just try to type Iowa State when talking about them as it doesn't happen often. If most use ISU as an abbreviation, most go with IaSU.

Similar actions were taken for Georgia State and Georgia Southern. GSoU and GStU.

In the MVFC we also see it due to Montana State and Missouri State being talked about. If both show up in a conversation the "natural" flow goes MSU for Montana State and Misery for Missouri State

[abc123]

Umm, if UND had to play the schedule of NDSU, SDSU, UNI, USD, MSU, and ISUb they would manage 1 win out of that group next season.
They get to play 2 of the 6 next year, so I guess we'll see.



Plus the stupid Sioux chants will come back now.
They haven't left the Fargodome yet, tough for something to come back when it was never gone.



Thats a pretty wishy washy agreement. It looks like they werent exactly sold on each other.
Sold enough to unanimously vote them into the conference and that they wanted to keep UND as a full member and being an affiliate for football-only wasn't an option. If they really didn't care, they wouldn't have given UND the 2 year scheduling reprieve they did. I'm not saying it was the most ideal situation, but it is nowhere near what you're trying to paint it as.

[SactoHornetFan]

ISUr = ISU Red = Illinois State due to their main color being red. Also called IlSU
ISUb = ISU Blue = Indiana State due to their main color being blue. Also called InSU
ISUo = ISU Orange = Idaho State due to their main color being orange (well, black but B is already taken). Also called IdSU

Then, for those of us in the midwest there is also Iowa State, also ISU. I generally just try to type Iowa State when talking about them as it doesn't happen often. If most use ISU as an abbreviation, most go with IaSU.

Similar actions were taken for Georgia State and Georgia Southern. GSoU and GStU.

In the MVFC we also see it due to Montana State and Missouri State being talked about. If both show up in a conversation the "natural" flow goes MSU for Montana State and Misery for Missouri State

Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering what the difference was between IlSU and InSU. To me those acronyms are better from being out west and since we don't see those ISU's unlike ISU in Pocatello. I would have thought that ISUb was for Illinois State since they are in Bloomington lol

[clenz]

Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering what the difference was between IlSU and InSU. To me those acronyms are better from being out west and since we don't see those ISU's unlike ISU in Pocatello. I would have thought that ISUb was for Illinois State since they are in Bloomington lol
ISUr is in Normal. Yes, Bloomington/Normal metro, but they are in Normal. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Normal,+IL/@40.5018625,-89.0110865,13.11z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x880b711e8ea0817b:0xcc453bef6eaad dc0!8m2!3d40.5142026!4d-88.9906312 Illinois State is at the corner of Gregory and Main.

The confernece uses InSU and IlSU for TV broadcasts when needed, but for most fans on message boards it's a pain to go I n S U vs ISUB or ISUR. ISU flows so well vs INSU. To be honest it's second nature for us. Half the times I do type INSU or ILSU I still put R or B on it.

Even talking to other fans IRL I find myself saying ISUR or ISU Red more than Illinois State.

Given most of us are in the B10 footprint, and also follow B10 ball (or even D2) and the OVC is here as well MSU is tricky. Missouri State, Minnesota State, Michigan State, Montana State, Murray State, Morehead State, etc... most of those are just spelled out.

My phones autofill pops up ISUr and ISUb as suggestions for me as soon as I hit "I".

I touched on Iowa State, but most of the time i just call them ISU unless I'm talking with people that need the IaSU. Why a team that we don't play nearly as often as the other two ISU schools gets the ISU treatment, I'm not sure.

[geaux_sioux]

Yea, they think the Summit move is a step down from that powerhouse Men's BB conference, The Big Sky.
Literally nobody has said the Big Sky is a conference with better teams. We've compared the rpi plenty on SS. Everyone knows the Summit is superior by a lot. Weber is the only decent team in the Big Sky.

[clenz]

Literally nobody has said the Big Sky is a conference with better teams. We've compared the rpi plenty on SS. Everyone knows the Summit is superior by a lot. Weber is the only decent team in the Big Sky.
I've glanced at SS.

I'd say the opinion is split, at best.

[geaux_sioux]

They dont have clue and are talking out of their ass. Just like many do on your board as well.
From nd1su fan on SS

"NDSU is loaded at DE and has some excellent DE's coming in with the 2017 class, including the top DE in MN in most peoples eyes in Tanner Sundt, along with the best player in Wyoming who is also a DE. They obviously think the DE's they have coming in are better than Ott. We will eventually be able to see on the field. That is if NDSU is still in the MVFC by 2020. My theory is NDSU pushed for UND to get into the MVFC because the Summit really needed a 10th team and UND wouldn't/couldn't go without the MVFC invite. NDSU has no intention of being in the MVFC in 2020. They will announce either a new stadium or they will expand seating at the Fargodome by enclosing the corners to make it a bowl, increasing capacity to 26,000 to 30,000 to make an FBS move to the MWC in football only."

[geaux_sioux]

I've glanced at SS.

I'd say the opinion is split, at best.

There are people that are sour about leaving the Big Sky, not because it is a superior conference in terms of team quality, but because of travel destinations like Greeley and not "following" NDSU.

[POD Knows]

Literally nobody has said the Big Sky is a conference with better teams. We've compared the rpi plenty on SS. Everyone knows the Summit is superior by a lot. Weber is the only decent team in the Big Sky.

Yea, there is one guy that laments the Slummit move I believe so I figured I would throw all of the posters on the site under the bus. It is just easier that way. xsmiley_wix

[clenz]

"Travel destinations like Greeley"

WTF?

Outside of being a reference to pot that is a horrid argument. I've been to Greeley. Nearly went to school in Greeley. Wife nearly got her MA at UNC. Unless almost everything has changed the last 5 years or so I'm confused.

[centennial]

From nd1su fan on SS

"NDSU is loaded at DE and has some excellent DE's coming in with the 2017 class, including the top DE in MN in most peoples eyes in Tanner Sundt, along with the best player in Wyoming who is also a DE. They obviously think the DE's they have coming in are better than Ott. We will eventually be able to see on the field. That is if NDSU is still in the MVFC by 2020. My theory is NDSU pushed for UND to get into the MVFC because the Summit really needed a 10th team and UND wouldn't/couldn't go without the MVFC invite. NDSU has no intention of being in the MVFC in 2020. They will announce either a new stadium or they will expand seating at the Fargodome by enclosing the corners to make it a bowl, increasing capacity to 26,000 to 30,000 to make an FBS move to the MWC in football only."

Whoever is posting this doesn't know what they are talking about. Plus if NDSU was going to move it wouldn't be telling random fans.

[centennial]

"Travel destinations like Greeley"

WTF?

Outside of being a reference to pot that is a horrid argument. I've been to Greeley. Nearly went to school in Greeley. Wife nearly got her MA at UNC. Unless almost everything has changed the last 5 years or so I'm confused.

Went to a corn maze in Greely couple of years ago. It's lackluster vs most towns in co. I would rather live in Fargo, also has almost no view of the mountains.

[geaux_sioux]

"Travel destinations like Greeley"

WTF?

Outside of being a reference to pot that is a horrid argument. I've been to Greeley. Nearly went to school in Greeley. Wife nearly got her MA at UNC. Unless almost everything has changed the last 5 years or so I'm confused.
I'll use purple to indicate the sarcasm next time.

[344Johnson]

I'll use purple to indicate the sarcasm next time.

Not enough people here watch south park

[POD Knows]

From nd1su fan on SS

"NDSU is loaded at DE and has some excellent DE's coming in with the 2017 class, including the top DE in MN in most peoples eyes in Tanner Sundt, along with the best player in Wyoming who is also a DE. They obviously think the DE's they have coming in are better than Ott. We will eventually be able to see on the field. That is if NDSU is still in the MVFC by 2020. My theory is NDSU pushed for UND to get into the MVFC because the Summit really needed a 10th team and UND wouldn't/couldn't go without the MVFC invite. NDSU has no intention of being in the MVFC in 2020. They will announce either a new stadium or they will expand seating at the Fargodome by enclosing the corners to make it a bowl, increasing capacity to 26,000 to 30,000 to make an FBS move to the MWC in football only."

Yea, the Fargo dome will add 10,000 seats by filling in the corners, they would be lucky to get 500 and they would all be ****ty seats,

[jacksfan29]

From nd1su fan on SS

"NDSU is loaded at DE and has some excellent DE's coming in with the 2017 class, including the top DE in MN in most peoples eyes in Tanner Sundt, along with the best player in Wyoming who is also a DE. They obviously think the DE's they have coming in are better than Ott. We will eventually be able to see on the field. That is if NDSU is still in the MVFC by 2020. My theory is NDSU pushed for UND to get into the MVFC because the Summit really needed a 10th team and UND wouldn't/couldn't go without the MVFC invite. NDSU has no intention of being in the MVFC in 2020. They will announce either a new stadium or they will expand seating at the Fargodome by enclosing the corners to make it a bowl, increasing capacity to 26,000 to 30,000 to make an FBS move to the MWC in football only."

Ok, that's some funny stuff. Yep, the MWC is going to invite NDSU... and it will be a FB only invite.

Some NDSU fans are seriously delusional. Let me see, I'm the MWC and I can invite UTEP, Rice or UTSA for all sports or I can send out a FB only invite to NDSU. Seriously NDSU fans, can someone talk sense into this nd1su fan?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

ISUr = ISU Red = Illinois State due to their main color being red. Also called IlSU
ISUb = ISU Blue = Indiana State due to their main color being blue. Also called InSU
ISUo = ISU Orange = Idaho State due to their main color being orange (well, black but B is already taken). Also called IdSU

Then, for those of us in the midwest there is also Iowa State, also ISU. I generally just try to type Iowa State when talking about them as it doesn't happen often. If most use ISU as an abbreviation, most go with IaSU.

Similar actions were taken for Georgia State and Georgia Southern. GSoU and GStU.

In the MVFC we also see it due to Montana State and Missouri State being talked about. If both show up in a conversation the "natural" flow goes MSU for Montana State and Misery for Missouri State


Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering what the difference was between IlSU and InSU. To me those acronyms are better from being out west and since we don't see those ISU's unlike ISU in Pocatello. I would have thought that ISUb was for Illinois State since they are in Bloomington lol


ISUr is in Normal. Yes, Bloomington/Normal metro, but they are in Normal. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Normal,+IL/@40.5018625,-89.0110865,13.11z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x880b711e8ea0817b:0xcc453bef6eaad dc0!8m2!3d40.5142026!4d-88.9906312 Illinois State is at the corner of Gregory and Main.

The confernece uses InSU and IlSU for TV broadcasts when needed, but for most fans on message boards it's a pain to go I n S U vs ISUB or ISUR. ISU flows so well vs INSU. To be honest it's second nature for us. Half the times I do type INSU or ILSU I still put R or B on it.

Even talking to other fans IRL I find myself saying ISUR or ISU Red more than Illinois State.

Given most of us are in the B10 footprint, and also follow B10 ball (or even D2) and the OVC is here as well MSU is tricky. Missouri State, Minnesota State, Michigan State, Montana State, Murray State, Morehead State, etc... most of those are just spelled out.

My phones autofill pops up ISUr and ISUb as suggestions for me as soon as I hit "I".

I touched on Iowa State, but most of the time i just call them ISU unless I'm talking with people that need the IaSU. Why a team that we don't play nearly as often as the other two ISU schools gets the ISU treatment, I'm not sure.

The problem is that fans outside the MVFC, even ones that are active AGS readers, don't make the red and blue connection as easily. I'm constantly asking myself who is red and who is blue despite knowing quite well because UNH played Illinois State that they are red and I know Larry Bird wore blue uniforms while at IN State. To me anyway, using the state abbreviation is more intuitive for people outside the Midwest. I've gotten used to using the state abbreviations because I have family that are alums of Oklahoma State and Oregon State. (We all know the obnoxious Buckeye fans use their tOSU. xlolx) In fairness to casual readers on AGS, I always try to use Il/In/Ia/Id State. And GaSoU and GaStU because Grambling is also a GStU.

[Thumper 76]

Sold enough to unanimously vote them into the conference and that they wanted to keep UND as a full member and being an affiliate for football-only wasn't an option. If they really didn't care, they wouldn't have given UND the 2 year scheduling reprieve they did. I'm not saying it was the most ideal situation, but it is nowhere near what you're trying to paint it as.
No. The reason they said they wouldn't allow football affiliation is to force the Summit League schools to leverage them into the MVFC so they could get them completely out of their hair. Sorry. $ talks bull**** walks.


Literally nobody has said the Big Sky is a conference with better teams. We've compared the rpi plenty on SS. Everyone knows the Summit is superior by a lot. Weber is the only decent team in the Big Sky.
Pretty sure I've read people saying that the Big Sky is a better conference, even to the point of arguing that rpi is a poor way to look at conference strength, and even a couple saying that the Big Sky is on par or better in football. Sure the majority was bitching about better travel locations, and it tailed into being that almost exclusively, but there certainly were some people arguing the Sky was a better conference.

Ok, that's some funny stuff. Yep, the MWC is going to invite NDSU... and it will be a FB only invite.

Some NDSU fans are seriously delusional. Let me see, I'm the MWC and I can invite UTEP, Rice or UTSA for all sports or I can send out a FB only invite to NDSU. Seriously NDSU fans, can someone talk sense into this nd1su fan?
xlolx Good luck. They are as angry as SDSU fans were (well myself and a couple others) when USeD got added, but for the reason of "it's the old NCC blah blah blah" with a healthy dose of FBS envy added in. This just added fuel and supporters to their FBS fire. They are incredibly naïve on the topic though from what I read, the majority seem to think if you want to go to FBS you just say so and someone will pick you. Geography, media markets, and stadium size be damned xlolx



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clenz]

The problem is that fans outside the MVFC, even ones that are active AGS readers, don't make the red and blue connection as easily. I'm constantly asking myself who is red and who is blue despite knowing quite well because UNH played Illinois State that they are red and I know Larry Bird wore blue uniforms while at IN State. To me anyway, using the state abbreviation is more intuitive for people outside the Midwest. I've gotten used to using the state abbreviations because I have family that are alums of Oklahoma State and Oregon State. (We all know the obnoxious Buckeye fans use their tOSU. xlolx) In fairness to casual readers on AGS, I always try to use Il/In/Ia/Id State. And GaSoU and GaStU because Grambling is also a GStU.
In fairness, how often is one, especially from outside the conference, going to be reading a conversation where ISUr and ISUb may both be used?

Game day threads
Prediction threads
Recruiting threads

Mostly, the only time ISUb is brought up is MVFC specific threads. It's why there's typically little confusion on the MSU's of the FCS. None of them are worth discussing outside a conference specific context and almost never overlap in a thread.

[POD Knows]

The problem is that fans outside the MVFC, even ones that are active AGS readers, don't make the red and blue connection as easily. I'm constantly asking myself who is red and who is blue despite knowing quite well because UNH played Illinois State that they are red and I know Larry Bird wore blue uniforms while at IN State. To me anyway, using the state abbreviation is more intuitive for people outside the Midwest. I've gotten used to using the state abbreviations because I have family that are alums of Oklahoma State and Oregon State. (We all know the obnoxious Buckeye fans use their tOSU. xlolx) In fairness to casual readers on AGS, I always try to use Il/In/Ia/Id State. And GaSoU and GaStU because Grambling is also a GStU.

Redbirds are red and the Trees suck so they are blue all the time, that is how I keep it straight.

[FargoBison]

Literally nobody has said the Big Sky is a conference with better teams. We've compared the rpi plenty on SS. Everyone knows the Summit is superior by a lot. Weber is the only decent team in the Big Sky.

Some fans have seen the light, it was a lot worse in the past. There are still a few stragglers over there though.

I remember a few days ago some fan was trying to make the case that RPI didn't mean much because NDSU was mediocre as a DII MBB program. He also tried to make a similar point with SDSU FB being average in DII and the MVFC being overrated since they are good now. I was like a lot of things have changed since those DII days.