UND Negotiating move to MVFC and Summit

[clenz]

It seems pretty irrelevant at the moment given the way this season has gone. Support might be at an all-time low right now.

If the right thing is said to the right people you never know. Also depends on what was committed to and by who and when.
I wouldn't rule anything out

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The thing is, that's not how simple this really is. Voting on something like this is actually quite complex and wheeling and dealing of "I'll vote his way if you do this and this for us in the future". Especially within other sports conference alignments.

As has been pointed out. There is about a 1% chance NDSU wants UND in. However, because of how his actually works the chances they vote no is about 0


I'm sure NDSU will probably vote yes for a variety of reasons. But there is a lot of ground support for UND to be in the same conference as NDSU. Summit membership is probably a done deal IMO. Valley membership is the question.

If the eastern schools and centrally located schools are dead set against it then they will not vote for membership. Will there be behind the scene politics? I'm sure there will be for and against the addition.

- - - Updated - - -


Who all buses to Fargo?

My guess is the 2 SD schools only.

[clenz]

Who all buses to Fargo?

Not the point.

If a bus trip for Illinois State to Macomb is replaced by a charter to Grand Forks it's a big difference.

UNI busses to USD, SDSU, WIU and ISUr.

Basketball charter flights run about 40k. For a53 man football squad plus equipment, coaches and travel party it isn't cheap

[clenz]

Would the Dakotas be in favor of adding Tenn Tech, ETSU, EKU, Morehead State, Chatty, Ajax State, Alabama AM?

All of those are in/barely further from the mid than UND and closer to evening else than und

[Redbird007]

UND should start a GoFundMe page so they can cover their travel costs in the BSC, ND4E can set it up.

LOL .... or the majority of the MVFC will have to GoFundMe for travel if UND is added.

[F'N Hawks]

LOL .... or the majority of the MVFC will have to GoFundMe for travel if UND is added.

No doubt. Adding them could be the tipping point for most of the athletic departments. Brink of disaster.

[clenz]

No doubt. Adding them could be the tipping point for most of the athletic departments. Brink of disaster.

You clearly know nothing of the state of Illinois do you?

It's not because he universities are cheap. It's there is less than zero money in Illinois for anything right now. Schools are laying off employees and some are closing because state funding has been cut to next to nothing.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

You clearly know nothing of the state of Illinois do you?

It's not because he universities are cheap. It's there is less than zero money in Illinois for anything right now. Schools are laying off employees and some are closing because state funding has been cut to next to nothing.


I'm not going to get into the politics of why Illinois has no money but for the Valley schools in Illinois (WIU, SIU and Ill State) if that is a big concern for them then I'm sure they will voice their opposition to UND being added because of the extra cost of the extra trip to the Dakotas.

[Redbird007]

No doubt. Adding them could be the tipping point for most of the athletic departments. Brink of disaster.

Pull your head out of your *ss....you just acknowledged with your smart *ss comment that it is more expensive for MVFC schools to add UND. So why should ISU spend even one dollar to add UND when they get NO benefit. Now I am starting to hate UND!

[PantherRob82]

I vote for Grambling. Are they in the new expanded footprint?

[Redbird007]

I'm not going to get into the politics of why Illinois has no money but for the Valley schools in Illinois (WIU, SIU and Ill State) if that is a big concern for them then I'm sure they will voice their opposition to UND being added because of the extra cost of the extra trip to the Dakotas.

Right on...Huge financial problems for all IL state schools including University of Illinois is that the state is reducing AND withholding state funding big time....sometimes delaying as much as 9 months after the start of the school year. Additional problems for some schools is declining enrollment. Though U of I and ISU had record enrollments others schools (including MVFC SIU and WIU as well as EIU) are experiencing dramatic decreases. For example SIU enrollment is down from 21,000 to 16,000 in 5 years and the drop is accelerating. Same magnitude of problems for EIU and WIU. There is some talk of closing a state subsidized school in Illinois..probably Chicago State or EIU. I can't see EIU happening but it shows the climate that exists. So these Illinois schools are not looking to subsidize UND travel costs especially when declining student fees due to enrollment drops are reducing available athletic department revenues.

[Red & Black]

more expensive for MVFC schools to add UND. So why should ISU spend even one dollar to add UND when they get NO benefit.

How do you think we feel having them in the Big Sky? xlolx

[clenz]

Pull your head out of your *ss....you just acknowledged with your smart *ss comment that it is more expensive for MVFC schools to add UND. So why should ISU spend even one dollar to add UND when they get NO benefit. Now I am starting to hate UND!

Amazing how quick UND fans can turn those on their side against them, isn't it?

I legitimately spent years on their side of the logo/name argument on this site. Then as more and more UND fans joined I quickly found myself jumping to the **** UND side.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Right on...Huge financial problems for all IL state schools including University of Illinois is that the state is reducing AND withholding state funding big time....sometimes delaying as much as 9 months after the start of the school year. Additional problems for some schools is declining enrollment. Though U of I and ISU had record enrollments others schools (including MVFC SIU and WIU as well as EIU) are experiencing dramatic decreases. For example SIU enrollment is down from 21,000 to 16,000 in 5 years and the drop is accelerating. Same magnitude of problems for EIU and WIU. There is some talk of closing a state subsidized school in Illinois..probably Chicago State or EIU. I can't see EIU happening but it shows the climate that exists. So these Illinois schools are not looking to subsidize UND travel costs especially when declining student fees due to enrollment drops are reducing available athletic department revenues.


I have a soft spot for EIU...went to grad school there.

[Redbird007]

I vote for Grambling. Are they in the new expanded footprint?

Maybe with could add all SHSU member conference schools and all just play them and go undefeated every season.

[F'N Hawks]

Amazing how quick UND fans can turn those on their side against them, isn't it?

I legitimately spent years on their side of the logo/name argument on this site. Then as more and more UND fans joined I quickly found myself jumping to the **** UND side.

Sorry to hear that Clenz.

[clenz]

Right on...Huge financial problems for all IL state schools including University of Illinois is that the state is reducing AND withholding state funding big time....sometimes delaying as much as 9 months after the start of the school year. Additional problems for some schools is declining enrollment. Though U of I and ISU had record enrollments others schools (including MVFC SIU and WIU as well as EIU) are experiencing dramatic decreases. For example SIU enrollment is down from 21,000 to 16,000 in 5 years and the drop is accelerating. Same magnitude of problems for EIU and WIU. There is some talk of closing a state subsidized school in Illinois..probably Chicago State or EIU. I can't see EIU happening but it shows the climate that exists. So these Illinois schools are not looking to subsidize UND travel costs especially when declining student fees due to enrollment drops are reducing available athletic department revenues.

SIU had 44 million cut from them the last 2 or 3 years.

That's a crippling cut. It's why coaches like Lennon, or Lowery on the basketball side, survive as long as they did. Couldn't afford to get rid of them.

SIU was lucky Kill showed up when he did. His success got funding for the new stadium before the state went bankrupt. Had kill not showed up when he did, if at all, that stadium doesn't happen. Their old stadium was atrocious. Who knows where that program is standing right now if he wasn't there or if that new stadium wasn't built.

Can't cut a program with a brand new stadium. Saluki fans should be thankful if that. Not saying it would t happened. However, not crazy to wonder about it

[Twentysix]

Maybe with could add all SHSU member conference schools and all just play them and go undefeated every season.

While that is hilarious, UCA could be an addition. They would be near Missouri State in the MVFC and near ORU in the summit. I'd be all for EIU or UCA as additions to the summit/MVFC.

[Yotetopia]

Pull your head out of your *ss....you just acknowledged with your smart *ss comment that it is more expensive for MVFC schools to add UND. So why should ISU spend even one dollar to add UND when they get NO benefit. Now I am starting to hate UND!
Summi

[clenz]

While that is hilarious, UCA could be an addition. They would be near Missouri State in the MVFC and near ORU in the summit. I'd be all for EIU or UCA as additions to the summit/MVFC.

If forced to add another MVFC school I'd be okay with UCA and EIU. Probably EIU first as there is history with them.

[Redbird007]

For those schools (ISU is one of them) the have large per student athletic student fees as part of tuition always run the risk of athletic department budget woes. AD's plan their expense budget ahead of the school year but don't find out their revenues until number of students actually enroll and show up. It will be interesting to see how these budget woes affect athletics at illinois schools over the next couple of years. SIU, as you noted, will be one to watch. For SIU I wonder if that stadium and other athletic department expenses are significantly funded by student fees....think 5,000 less students x $400 per year fee (?) = $2,000,000 annual decrease in athletic department revenue in a 5 year timeline just due to enrollment decrease.

[Yotetopia]

Summit League stability is crucial to the stability of the MVFC. Something happens to the Summit and you've got USD, SDSU, NDSU, and WIU looking for a new home for all sports, perhaps one that requires them to bring football along. It's not that hard to wrap your head around the benefit of UND.

[IBleedYellow]

Summit League stability is crucial to the stability of the MVFC. Something happens to the Summit and you've got USD, SDSU, NDSU, and WIU looking for a new home for all sports, perhaps one that requires them to bring football along. It's not that hard to wrap your head around the benefit of UND.

There would be a major change in the landscape in D1 sports if that happened....

[Thumper 76]

Summit League stability is crucial to the stability of the MVFC. Something happens to the Summit and you've got USD, SDSU, NDSU, and WIU looking for a new home for all sports, perhaps one that requires them to bring football along. It's not that hard to wrap your head around the benefit of UND.

The problem with this thought process is whether the MVFC accepts them or not they still need to be in the Summit due to their budget problems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ST_Lawson]

Hey WIU fans... Have y'all heard rumors of y'all dropping football?

Apologies if someone else addressed this...I'm only 13 freakin' pages behind on this crazy thread ;)


To answer your question....F*** NO! We're a football school. Hell, we'd be more likely to drop basketball than football. Although the more realistic options would be (probably in this order): M/W Swimming/Diving (was actually dropped once before but there was uproar from alumni and parents along with donations that helped bring it back), Women's Tennis (we already cut Men's Tennis), M/W Golf.


Football isn't going anywhere.

[clenz]

Summit League stability is crucial to the stability of the MVFC. Something happens to the Summit and you've got USD, SDSU, NDSU, and WIU looking for a new home for all sports, perhaps one that requires them to bring football along. It's not that hard to wrap your head around the benefit of UND.

Thing is, we don't know if UND actually stabilizes the Summit.

MVFC still has enough members without the Summit members for an auto bid.

If something happens to the summit where are the schools going? They going to magically reform their conference so the issues are fixed? You still don't have enough football members for an auto bid and you'd have burned your MVFC ties along the way if they pull their football members for a conference not yet formed that doesn't have enough members for an auto-bid.

The mostly likely scenario for each school would be WIU to the OVC and where did the others go? Do the Dakota 4 have a plan that would be a landing spot for football? Big Sky isn't absorbing 3 more schools and Idaho. I suppose there's your new league but how are you splitting the Big Sky? How do you convince those long standing rivals to split up?


Turns out the MVFC is still fine and down to a true round robin again most likely as I'd bet the MVC takes NDSU and SDSU in that case. UND and USD are back to trying to coexist as partners.

All these doomsday scenarios and threats for the MVFC should the summit ever pull out or start their own league but they are never real well thought out in the end

The MVFC is a football only league. Unless you have a new home that requires football none of your doomsday scenarios scare anyone that is capable of critical thought.

[clenz]

Apologies if someone else addressed this...I'm only 13 freakin' pages behind on this crazy thread ;)


To answer your question....F*** NO! We're a football school. Hell, we'd be more likely to drop basketball than football. Although the more realistic options would be (probably in this order): M/W Swimming/Diving (was actually dropped once before but there was uproar from alumni and parents along with donations that helped bring it back), Women's Tennis (we already cut Men's Tennis), M/W Golf.


Football isn't going anywhere.

I think WIU would be the only D1 school without basketball.

[IBleedYellow]

Thing is, we don't know if UND actually stabilizes the Summit.

MVFC still has enough members without the Summit members for an auto bid.

If something happens to the summit where are the schools going? They going to magically reform their conference so the issues are fixed? You still don't have enough football members for an auto bid and you'd have burned your MVFC ties along the way if they pull their football members for a conference not yet formed that doesn't have enough members for an auto-bid.

The mostly likely scenario for each school would be WIU to the OVC and where did the others go? Do the Dakota 4 have a plan that would be a landing spot for football? Big Sky isn't absorbing 3 more schools and Idaho. I suppose there's your new league but how are you splitting the Big Sky? How do you convince those long standing rivals to split up?


Turns out the MVFC is still fine and down to a true round robin again most likely as I'd bet the MVC takes NDSU and SDSU in that case. UND and USD are back to trying to coexist as partners.

All these doomsday scenarios and threats for the MVFC should the summit ever pull out or start their own league but they are never real well thought out in the end

The MVFC is a football only league. Unless you have a new home that requires football none of your doomsday scenarios scare anyone that is capable of critical thought.

xoutofrepx

[PantherRob82]

Thing is, we don't know if UND actually stabilizes the Summit.

MVFC still has enough members without the Summit members for an auto bid.

If something happens to the summit where are the schools going? They going to magically reform their conference so the issues are fixed? You still don't have enough football members for an auto bid and you'd have burned your MVFC ties along the way if they pull their football members for a conference not yet formed that doesn't have enough members for an auto-bid.

The mostly likely scenario for each school would be WIU to the OVC and where did the others go? Do the Dakota 4 have a plan that would be a landing spot for football? Big Sky isn't absorbing 3 more schools and Idaho. I suppose there's your new league but how are you splitting the Big Sky? How do you convince those long standing rivals to split up?


Turns out the MVFC is still fine and down to a true round robin again most likely as I'd bet the MVC takes NDSU and SDSU in that case. UND and USD are back to trying to coexist as partners.

All these doomsday scenarios and threats for the MVFC should the summit ever pull out or start their own league but they are never real well thought out in the end

The MVFC is a football only league. Unless you have a new home that requires football none of your doomsday scenarios scare anyone that is capable of critical thought.

I'm sure that in the end UND will join the MVFC, but this scenario is hilarious. Let's add NDSU and SDSU to the MVC right now! xlolx

[TheKingpin28]

I'm sure that in the end UND will join the MVFC, but this scenario is hilarious. Let's add NDSU and SDSU to the MVC right now! xlolx

As interesting as this would be, USD is not going anywhere without SDSU since their legislature is just as ****ed up when it comes to the North Dakota legislature, so you would have to take all 3 and then UND would bitch and whine and demand to be added, and then UNO would almost demand to be let in which then brings us back to the current problem that UND could not get their finances in line so everyone else must pay for the problems they bring on themselves.

[geaux_sioux]

Would the Dakotas be in favor of adding Tenn Tech, ETSU, EKU, Morehead State, Chatty, Ajax State, Alabama AM?

All of those are in/barely further from the mid than UND and closer to evening else than und
Pass the salt. You should probably start watching your cholesterol.

[ST_Lawson]

I think WIU would be the only D1 school without basketball.

Well, yea, I don't think it's going to happen, I was just saying that dropping football was less likely (as in...not going to happen either)...er...maybe that'd technically be the same likelihood...idk. Neither is happening.


We could drop a few more sports if we needed to...that would probably happen before anything else.
I don't know if anything is going on with us on that front though; if there is, I haven't heard even a whisper of a rumor about it.


Quick update on the enrollment situation: our new freshman enrollment this fall was stable as compared to last year (technically down 8 students). For comparison, SIU-C's freshman class was down just over 23% and EIU's freshman class was down 25% vs last year.


It doesn't really apply to the FCS football conversation, although if you're curious about if they might close any of the Illinois schools at some point to save money (and this is a D1 athletics school...just without football)...Chicago State is essentially "one foot in the grave". Their entire freshman class this fall...86 (and no, I didn't forget a 0 or anything).


I'd say that if any are going to close, it'd be that one. I had also at one point heard a rumor that U of I might "absorb" EIU as another U of I campus. I don't have any idea if that's anything more than a crazy rumor, but that's probably more likely than closing the whole school. I also don't know how that would affect athletics at EIU. Currently U of I has two universities in their system other than the main one...U of I Chicago (UIC) is DI (no football) in the Horizon League, and U of I Springfield (UIS) is DII (also no football) and competes in the DII GLVC.

[clenz]

As interesting as this would be, USD is not going anywhere without SDSU since their legislature is just as ****ed up when it comes to the North Dakota legislature, so you would have to take all 3 and then UND would bitch and whine and demand to be added, and then UNO would almost demand to be let in which then brings us back to the current problem that UND could not get their finances in line so everyone else must pay for the problems they bring on themselves.

Then you all starve in the end. Maybe two states with a combined population of 1.5 millions don't need 4 D1 schools.

The MCV members will be fine. They existed long before the Dakotas and would after.

Life lines can be thrown. Probably would be thrown. If you won't/can't take them there is nothing to be done by anyone.

[TheKingpin28]

Then you all starve in the end. Maybe two states with a combined population of 1.5 millions don't need 4 D1 schools.

The MCV members will be fine. They existed long before the Dakotas and would after.

Life lines can be thrown. Probably would be thrown. If you won't/can't take them there is nothing to be done by anyone.

Hopefully you understand that on either the first page or second I made it practically clear that I hope UND sinks and they burn for the way they burned NDSU, The Summit, and the the MVFC. I hope they are like the girl who never got asked to the prom and when everyone asks why, all sorts of red on their ledger appears and then people understand why no one wanted to be with them. I am just saying that if the MVC ever wanted to invite just NDSU and SDSU, UND and USD would have to come with due to politics and state controlled state legislatures, and eventually UNO would have to come in that package.

[Schism55]

Did we definitively answer whether UND needs baseball to truly stabilize the Summit?

[clenz]

Hopefully you understand that on either the first page or second I made it practically clear that I hope UND sinks and they burn for the way they burned NDSU, The Summit, and the the MVFC. I hope they are like the girl who never got asked to the prom and when everyone asks why, all sorts of red on their ledger appears and then people understand why no one wanted to be with them. I am just saying that if the MVC ever wanted to invite just NDSU and SDSU, UND and USD would have to come with due to politics and state controlled state legislatures, and eventually UNO would have to come in that package.

I get that. However, that all further emphasizes my point

Sd has 750k people. ND has 850k people. Eventually that oil money is going to stop flowing to the state eventually people stop moving to ND and start moving out. To tie all 4 together, and then allowing a school from a third state to be in in it, is just begging for bad things to happen should a shift come about. If your states are unwilling to let some thrive because the other isn't thriving all 4 will be held back in perpetuity.

[taper]

All of this becomes so much simpler if UND follows UNO's lead and drops football. Instantly solves their budget problems, the Summit takes them in, MVFC isn't affected. I'm not laying odds on that happening though.

[Schism55]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23817&stc=1

[Schism55]

Why my .gif no work?
Sad panda

[clenz]

Because you saved it as a jpeg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161107/444af92aa5b8524eb2b0f0f1b3cb14f6.jpg

[TheKingpin28]

I get that. However, that all further emphasizes my point

Sd has 750k people. ND has 850k people. Eventually that oil money is going to stop flowing to the state eventually people stop moving to ND and start moving out. To tie all 4 together, and then allowing a school from a third state to be in in it, is just begging for bad things to happen should a shift come about. If your states are unwilling to let some thrive because the other isn't thriving all 4 will be held back in perpetuity.

Welcome to those with a rational thought VS those who are in charge. Bismarck and GFCC would rather bring everyone down then let the rest succeed. This is why most people want to watch UND burn since if they would have moved up when NDSU moved up, dropped womens hockey to save MILLIONS and re allocate the scholarships so the feminazis stay away (even though they would still arrive since cutting anything womens related would drive the SJWs and feminazis to file Title 9 lawsuits), not cut baseball, and make smart cuts like NDSU did for the last 3 years to not have a 5 million shortfall, we would not be in this situation. It is just like real life when, why take repsonsibility when something goes wrong when you can blame others and drag everyone to hell with you. This is why I hate UND. Had they thought about potential issues with a 10 year outlook, we would not be in this situation; but no, UND has to make everyone "pitch in their fair share" to drag their asses out of the fire they created, stoked, and kept feeding time and time again.

[Twentysix]

Hopefully you understand that on either the first page or second I made it practically clear that I hope UND sinks and they burn for the way they burned NDSU, The Summit, and the the MVFC. I hope they are like the girl who never got asked to the prom and when everyone asks why, all sorts of red on their ledger appears and then people understand why no one wanted to be with them. I am just saying that if the MVC ever wanted to invite just NDSU and SDSU, UND and USD would have to come with due to politics and state controlled state legislatures, and eventually UNO would have to come in that package.


The individual sets of Dakota schools are tied to each other some (SDSU to USD; NDSU to UND).

You are definitely overstating it when you add UNO at all, and probably overstating the amount that SDSU/USD or NDSU/UND are tied to each other as well.

IMO the only two schools that have a linkage regarding conference affiliation are SDSU and NDSU and that isn't through politics or anything like that. The two schools simply like each other and work well together.

[TheKingpin28]

The individual sets of Dakota schools are tied to each other some (SDSU to USD; NDSU to UND).

You are definitely overstating it when you add UNO at all, and probably overstating the amount that SDSU/USD or NDSU/UND are tied to each other as well.

IMO the only two schools that have a linkage regarding conference affiliation are SDSU and NDSU and that isn't through politics or anything like that. The two schools simply like each other and work well together.

You can ask any Jack Rabbit or Bison fan and they will tell you the extact same thing. It does not matter if the XDSUs want to stay together, it comes down to what the UXDs want to do since their alumni control the State funding through government so if they do not play ball they will be given the shaft every time and the UXDs will get what they want. The XDSUs could want to leave for the MVC, assuming that offer is there, and if the UXDs do not get the same offer, they will not go, period. NDSU will not leave without SDSU for travel partner reasons, and if SDSU tries to leave, Pierre will require USD to ride the coattails and be strung along, and Bismarck will force the same thing for NDSU. If they want funding, UND must go wherever you go from here on out. It is why NDSU will HAVE to vote yes, even if they want to vote no, since if word gets out they did not want UND, the **** storm that would erupt from GFCC and Bismarck would be yuuuuge! This is why NDSU wants anyone and everyone to vote no on this measure so they can say they supported UND, but in reality stick it to them, and force them to continue to hemorage money in the Big Sky. Funding would somehow be scaled back and NDSU would be taught a lesson to never piss off UND, even if all they do is hinder NDSU from continuing their greatness.

(I included UNO due to travel partner and stability they helped bring the Summit when they joined so there will be a sense of "we owe you one")

I am not understating anything, and anyone who follows the money and the politics, will tell you the exact same thing I said. If NDSU could fully break away from UND and SDSU could fully break away from USD, I would support that in a heartbeat and I know most Jack Rabbit and Bison fans would support that as well. It would be a way to tell them how they really feel and to stick it to them once and for all.

[jacksfan29]

Hopefully you understand that on either the first page or second I made it practically clear that I hope UND sinks and they burn for the way they burned NDSU, The Summit, and the the MVFC. I hope they are like the girl who never got asked to the prom and when everyone asks why, all sorts of red on their ledger appears and then people understand why no one wanted to be with them. I am just saying that if the MVC ever wanted to invite just NDSU and SDSU, UND and USD would have to come with due to politics and state controlled state legislatures, and eventually UNO would have to come in that package.

Maybe in ND but not SD. SDSU received an invite to the MVC and the regents would not stop us. They may try to make our lives harder but we would be allowed to move alone.

[BisonFan02]

All of this becomes so much simpler if UND follows UNO's lead and drops football. Instantly solves their budget problems, the Summit takes them in, MVFC isn't affected. I'm not laying odds on that happening though.

Been saying this for awhile now........

[TheKingpin28]

Maybe in ND but not SD. SDSU received an invite to the MVC and the regents would not stop us. They may try to make our lives harder but we would be allowed to move alone.

I would be shocked if that was the case since I have heard differently from people who live and Pierre and others who went to SDSU, and they have told me that that would not be the case.

[jacksfan29]

I would be shocked if that was the case since I have heard differently from people who live and Pierre and others who went to SDSU, and they have told me that that would not be the case.

You may be hearing it but it is not true. The only people I have heard stating this as fact about SD come from ND.

[TheKingpin28]

You may be hearing it but it is not true. The only people I have heard stating this as fact about SD come from ND.

These are people who actually have ties to the SD State Government. The other ones were apart of the athletics at SDSU so I trust them enough to know when they say something that I can stand behind it.

[Twentysix]

Maybe in ND but not SD. SDSU received an invite to the MVC and the regents would not stop us. They may try to make our lives harder but we would be allowed to move alone.

The exact same thing is true for ND.
If NDSU is offered a spot in the MVC with a viable travel partner, UND can't do a thing to stop it. People with fictitious inside information are blowing things way out of proportion and Kingpin is buying it.
UND does get more funding, and some of that has to do with history and a lot of it has to do with having academic wings that NDSU doesn't. Med schools and Law schools require extra cash and NDSU has nothing to balance that part of the budget out. Does UND get unfairly more money than NDSU? Yes. Do sports have any impact on that money now or in the future? Not a chance in hell.

[Twentysix]

These are people who actually have ties to the SD State Government. The other ones were apart of the athletics at SDSU so I trust them enough to know when they say something that I can stand behind it.

Can you provide links to quotes; or is it still based on hearsay?

[OverratedGriz]

Ya all mad the Dakotas are smart and know how to build a conference around themselves.

[Evolution Prime]

Ya all mad the Dakotas are smart and know how to build a conference around themselves.

All we have left to do in the Summit is move league HQ from Chicago to Sioux Falls.

[Twentysix]

All we have left to do in the Summit is move league HQ from Chicago to Sioux Falls.

SiouxFalls?

Maybe I'd agree to the Northern half of Lemmon.

[Schism55]

SiouxFalls?

Maybe I'd agree to the Northern half of Lemmon.
I spent first 2 years of my life in Lemmon SD xdrunkyx

[Twentysix]

I spent first 2 years of my life in Lemmon SD xdrunkyx

I can remember running across the train tracks back to North Dakota as a 7 year old.

Probably one of the most appropriate places for a Dakota Marker to be. I can't remember seeing one, but I only spent a few days there as a young kid.

[dgtw]

Since someone brought it up, how can Chicago State justify a D1 athletic department? Especially if they are in a league where the closest conference member is in Kansas City, which is 509 miles away. The WAC is made up of schools with nowhere else to go, all of whom would bail if a better offer comes along.

I would tell them to drop sports ASAP. The state is short of cash and the college itself is barely alive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Laker]

Since someone brought it up, how can Chicago State justify a D1 athletic department? Especially if they are in a league where the closest conference member is in Kansas City, which is 509 miles away. The WAC is made up of schools with nowhere else to go, all of whom would bail if a better offer comes along.

I would tell them to drop sports ASAP. The state is short of cash and the college itself is barely alive.

Someone earlier- I think Clenz- noted that they have 86 freshmen coming in this fall. No, not for sports- but for the school. I saw on Twitter that the men's basketball team got new uniforms this year. At this rate they won't wear them out. They seem to be on the path of Northeastern Illinois for dropping sports. I didn't know that they had been in the Summit at one time.

You hit the nail on the head about the WAC- all of them would jump at the chance to join someone else. I wonder if UMKC has second thoughts about leaving the Summit for the WAC.

[Redbird007]

Someone earlier- I think Clenz- noted that they have 86 freshmen coming in this fall. No, not for sports- but for the school. I saw on Twitter that the men's basketball team got new uniforms this year. At this rate they won't wear them out. They seem to be on the path of Northeastern Illinois for dropping sports. I didn't know that they had been in the Summit at one time.

You hit the nail on the head about the WAC- all of them would jump at the chance to join someone else. I wonder if UMKC has second thoughts about leaving the Summit for the WAC.


Even worse...the 89 new Chicago State freshman may include the student athletes for the sports teams. Back out scholarship students and the actual number of "paying" students could be well below 89. That place needs to close ASAP as nothing works there. I doubt the students are getting any type of meaningful education.

[Laker]

Even worse...the 89 new Chicago State freshman may include the student athletes for the sports teams. Back out scholarship students and the actual number of "paying" students could be well below 89. That place needs to close ASAP as nothing works there. I doubt the students are getting any type of meaningful education.

They sent out layoff notices last spring- and with such a low number of freshmen- how much longer can they hold on?

Has Northeastern Illinois stabilized since dropping sports?

[UNIFanSince1983]

Maybe if Illinois decided to close some schools like Chicago State, Governors State, etc they could afford to actually fund some of their flagship schools better. It is cheaper for kids to go to Nebraska with out-of-state tuition than it is for them to go to Illinois with in-state tuition. That is an issue.

[Redbird007]

All of this becomes so much simpler if UND follows UNO's lead and drops football. Instantly solves their budget problems, the Summit takes them in, MVFC isn't affected. I'm not laying odds on that happening though.

I can't imagine UND dropping football. That seems extreme from my sideline perspective. UND in of itself has many strong characteristics that would generally make it a good conference addition except...LOCATION .... its location is really difficult since there is already an MVFC member that reps that area well. Can we move UND to Janesville WI?

[clenz]

Ya all mad the Dakotas are smart and know how to build a conference around themselves.
Not really. That's how you get stuck in a conference with Nebraksa-Omaha, Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, Indiana University-Purdue University Fort Wayne, and Denver. That conference might actually have a similar foot print to the Big Sky.

While there may be nothing wrong with the education at those schools, you get to build a conference around any schools that even try to show a pulse because those schools are the epitome of no other options.

Denver had a chance at the MVC, but they don't sponsor enough MVC sports and didn't want to add sports to get there. They are too focused on their hockey, lacrosse, gymanastics and ski teams. That's fine for them. They offer half of the men's sports The Summit Sponsors and half of the women's sports the conference offers.They don't have cross country or Track&Field for either gender, softball or volleyball on the womens side and baseball or swimming and diving on the men's side. That's why the MVC told them no a few years ago. They couldn't meet core criteria for membership and were unwilling to devert anything from their hockey and lacrosse programs to start a volleyball and softball program. I haven't, and won't, look at how they match any other conferences but I'm going to bet they won't meet core requirements without special waivers for any other conference. I supposed the West Coast Conference may take them, but they are at 10 currently. Hell, I'd bet if BYU hadn't joined in 2010 Denver would be there by now. They seem like a great fit honestly. BYU is an extreme outlier but every other school has between 3,000-6,000 students, is private, they offer all but 2 of the sports offered on the mens side, though I suppose the womens side could be an issue since they don't offer volleyball, softball or cross country (and the WCC offers beach volleyball).

The alphabet Indiana schools are willing to let those with a hint of a vision lead because they realize they are a conference alignment issue away from becoming true satellite campus or online programs (some exageration added but not sure how much). I guess maybe the OVC would take them, but they are already at 12 members. I can't imagine they'd be too keen on going to 14 but I won't pretend to know exactly their thoughts on 14 members. Doomsday scenario we'll assume the OVC absorbs them. Same could be said for the Horizon. They seem to fit there and the Horizon only has 10, so they might be willing to bring two in.

ORU has burned every bridge possible, probably twice for most of them, but I'd venture the SLC takes them back again because they have no issue with eleven thousand members. Seriously, ORU was Midwestern Collegiate Conference (now Horizon) from 1979-1987. For 1988/89 they moved back to NAIA. They moved back to D1 in 1991 and joined the MidCon (Summit) in 1997. They left the Summit for the Southland in 2012. They left the Southland for the Summit in 2014. SLC is currently at 13. A 14th would "even" it out and actually be a better geographic fit for the SLC. Problem is, ORU is a lot like Liberty. I don't think most of that university is too welcomed in too many places. It's also funny they cited having to travel to San Antonio, Houston, etc... and by adding schools in those locations The SLC wasn't looking out for their needs, yet traveling to Denver, Fargo, Brookings, Vermillion, Fort Wayne, IN, Macomb, IL, etc... isn't an issue. I think reasons run deeper than that in that the Summit "needs" ORU more than the SLC did. ORU's needs/ego wouldn't be curtailed too in the SLC like The Summit.

Omaha? That's a mess of an athletic department only topped by UND right now. If the Summit falls through the Nebraska BOR will drop them back to D2 faster than they dropped the football/wrestling teams to move D1. UNO will always be, at best, 5th on the Omaha pecking list behind Creighton, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State and I wouldn't be shocked if Kansas/K State would be a head of UNO.

Sure, The Summit schools help the MVFC. However, the schools in The Summit might need to be more worried about what happens to their football programs if something bad happens to the conference. The MVFC is a football only league. It doesn't GAF where your other teams play. It only cares about where your football teams play. So unless The Summit FB programs have a new football home in mind - remember you don't have enough for an AQ - threatening the MVFC/MVC/YSU isn't the smartest move to make.

[clenz]

Maybe if Illinois decided to close some schools like Chicago State, Governors State, etc they could afford to actually fund some of their flagship schools better. It is cheaper for kids to go to Nebraska with out-of-state tuition than it is for them to go to Illinois with in-state tuition. That is an issue.
It's why the U of I is about 75% Illinois students.

[clenz]

I can't imagine UND dropping football. That seems extreme from my sideline perspective. UND in of itself has many strong characteristics that would generally make it a good conference addition except...LOCATION .... its location is really difficult since there is already an MVFC member that reps that area well. Can we move UND to Janesville WI?
I'd rather move UW-Whitewater up to D1 from D3.

Or have UW-Milwaukee start a program

UW-M even has baseball.

[AmsterBison]

NDSU has to do all it can to help UND get into the conferences if this is that's really what they want to do (given their track record, there might be some push back from their bigwigs.)

No, I'm not forgetting what abominable pricks UND folks were, but NDSU's administration should never stoop to that level. I do hate the idea that UND would be put in a position where they have the least bit of power in conference meetings to screw NDSU over because that's what they've always done.

[REALBird]

Sure, The Summit schools help the MVFC. However, the schools in The Summit might need to be more worried about what happens to their football programs if something bad happens to the conference. The MVFC is a football only league. It doesn't GAF where your other teams play. It only cares about where your football teams play. So unless The Summit FB programs have a new football home in mind - remember you don't have enough for an AQ - threatening the MVFC/MVC/YSU isn't the smartest move to make.

^^^^^^^ That!!!!

[Redbird007]

It's why the U of I is about 75% Illinois students.

U of I as in University of Iowa?

[clenz]

U of I as in University of Iowa?

Yes. Sorry for not clarifying. Where I live UofI, UI, UoI, etc... are all Iowa.

[F'N Hawks]

NDSU has to do all it can to help UND get into the conferences if this is that's really what they want to do (given their track record, their might be some push back from their bigwigs.)

No, I'm not forgetting what abominable pricks UND folks were, but NDSU's adminstration should never stoop to that level. I do hate the idea that UND would be put in a position where they have the least bit of power in conference meetings to screw NDSU over because that's what they've always done.


News flash, your old AD already stepped to that level when he banded with Tom D. to help keep UND Baseball out of the Summit. Against the wishes of his own baseball coach.

[Redbird007]

They sent out layoff notices last spring- and with such a low number of freshmen- how much longer can they hold on?

Has Northeastern Illinois stabilized since dropping sports?

Just do not hear much about Northeastern .... i think no news is probably a good thing?

[F'N Hawks]

You guys are severely overstating the "deficit" at UND. Seriously. It was 1.4 million of a 20 million dollar budget. 7%. And baseball and golf budgets (both cut) were not included in that number. Oh, you didn't know that?

It was soooooooo bad that the new President elected to keep all sports, having already identified the ways to try and rectify it.

[MontanaVandal]

We don't want them in the Big Sky. You guys take them.

Keep telling yourself that.
Keep your non stop drama asses in the big sky please, noone wants you in the mvfc.

[clenz]

So you were 7% short on budget without including the costs of the two sports cut?

How is that helping your argument of financial responsibility?

[Redbird007]

Yes. Sorry for not clarifying. Where I live UofI, UI, UoI, etc... are all Iowa.

I am a parent of a senior at University of Iowa and a freshman at University of Wisconsin Madison. I know the issues although Madison is not cheap out of state. Iowa is reasonable. My son at Iowa said there are so many Illinois students at U of Iowa. He said downtown Iowa City seemed like Wrigleyville when the cubs won the world series.

[ST_Lawson]

Someone earlier- I think Clenz- noted that they have 86 freshmen coming in this fall. No, not for sports- but for the school. I saw on Twitter that the men's basketball team got new uniforms this year. At this rate they won't wear them out. They seem to be on the path of Northeastern Illinois for dropping sports. I didn't know that they had been in the Summit at one time.

You hit the nail on the head about the WAC- all of them would jump at the chance to join someone else. I wonder if UMKC has second thoughts about leaving the Summit for the WAC.

I mentioned it, but yea...I don't see how they can continue in the current state for another year. They'll mostly likely have to drop athletics altogether or maybe do like Centenary did and drop to DIII...that's if they don't close the school entirely.


Both Chicago State and Northeastern Illinois were at one point part of the Mid-Con/Summit. NEIU dropped athletics entirely and they seem to be doing ok. The last freshman class was up...I don't know how much of that is due to people not going to Chicago State, or what. They're on opposite ends of the city, so even with the Metra/CTA, it's not real easy for the students that CSU usually serves to get to NEIU (and NEIU doesn't have dorms/student housing).


As for the whole UND situation...obviously it somewhat helps the Summit, although I think we were in a pretty good position already outside of the baseball situation. As for the MVFC, I'm not personally opposed to bringing them in, but as many others have said, outside of other member shuffling (a school or schools leaving), it doesn't really do anything to help us and in some cases might hurt us, especially if it means an extra flight up to North Dakota instead of (for us) a drive to Bloomington, Carbondale, or Cedar Falls.

[F'N Hawks]

So you were 7% short on budget without including the costs of the two sports cut?

How is that helping your argument of financial responsibility?

They needed to find 1.4 million. The 600-700K of baseball & golf were not included in that number. Comprende?

I love how everyone is a forensic accountant of the their respective athletic department, analyzing others. Joke. You guys have no idea how much ********* goes on with numbers and shifting of numbers from one department to another all to "balance" the sheet at end of the year.

All these universities are going to be around 20 years from now, 50 years from now and so on. It doesn't ****ing matter. They will get it fixed and proceed like usual. Then it might happen again in 25 years. Oh well.

[dgtw]

Do you guys in the MVFC like being in a football only league with everything else in another conference? Or would you rather be in a normal all-sports league?


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[BucBisonAtLarge]

Would they have title IX problems if they dropped women's hockey and added men's baseball.

Yes. From a Title IX perspective, this is dead-on-arrival.

[F'N Hawks]

Yes. From a Title IX perspective, this is dead-on-arrival.

Actually, no they wouldn't. Baseball has like 5-6 scholarships. Women's hockey has 18, IIRC. UND is already too far to the women's side. Plus all the other factors involved would still make it OK to drop Women's hockey with some opportunities shifted to other sports.

[Redbird007]

Do you guys in the MVFC like being in a football only league with everything else in another conference? Or would you rather be in a normal all-sports league?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My thought is one conference that controls all sports so that the individual schools and the conference as a whole can maximize their power / ability to leverage is the best.

[clenz]

I am a parent of a senior at University of Iowa and a freshman at University of Wisconsin Madison. I know the issues although Madison is not cheap out of state. Iowa is reasonable. My son at Iowa said there are so many Illinois students at U of Iowa. He said downtown Iowa City seemed like Wrigleyville when the cubs won the world series.
I can look up numbers but he's not wrong. Iowa City is Chicago west. Many around here jokingly say U of I stands for University of Illinois at Iowa City.

[Bisonator]

UND to the Summit makes complete sense if UND keeps baseball. It's probably a good idea even if they don't since it helps with scheduling BB anyway.

The MVFC has no room at the inn right now and in fact would be much better with 1 less team. Until a couple teams leave which I don't see happening anytime soon I think it's going to be hard to get an invite.

I still don't see why the BSC wouldn't allow UND to stay as a FB only affiliate since they allow other schools to do that right now. Getting UND's other sports out would help the other conference members travel budgets anyway.

[F'N Hawks]

UND to the Summit makes complete sense if UND keeps baseball. It's probably a good idea even if they don't since it helps with scheduling BB anyway.

The MVFC has no room at the inn right now and in fact would be much better with 1 less team. Until a couple teams leave which I don't see happening anytime soon I think it's going to be hard to get an invite.

I still don't see why the BSC wouldn't allow UND to stay as a FB only affiliate since they allow other schools to do that right now. Getting UND's other sports out would help the other conference members travel budgets anyway.

A reasonable, Cletus-free post.

That was option #2 but never seemed to gain traction. As bad as it was to fly all the sports to Grand Forks, the major Presidents in the Big Sky were dead set on having them in the league.

As far as the MVFC/Summit goes, it is quite obvious to me and everyone that it's a package deal. Bringing up one without the other is a non-starter, much like it was for USD.

Put it this way, do you think that Patty/Tom/Brian are discussing entry/exit dates already without Patty/Tom having talked to the President's and AD's in the league? Hardly. Tom and Brian have been talking for years.

[F'N Hawks]

For the record, I am not guaranteeing this goes through. I know nothing. Just piecing together the parts. There is a chance something falls through on the MVFC end, no doubt.

[clenz]

A reasonable, Cletus-free post.

That was option #2 but never seemed to gain traction. As bad as it was to fly all the sports to Grand Forks, the major Presidents in the Big Sky were dead set on having them in the league.

As far as the MVFC/Summit goes, it is quite obvious to me and everyone that it's a package deal. Bringing up one without the other is a non-starter, much like it was for USD.

Put it this way, do you think that Patty/Tom/Brian are discussing entry/exit dates already without Patty/Tom having talked to the President's and AD's in the league? Hardly. Tom and Brian have been talking for years.
You don't know much about Patty, do you?

[Bisonator]

You don't know much about Patty, do you?

Exactly.xlolx

[goyotes]

Is Terry Handley, CEO of Casey's General Store, involved in any of the negotiations. It appears there is still no Casey's in Grand Forks and I am guessing that membership in the MVFC is contingent upon Casey's opening up at a location close to the Alerus.

And the other half of the equation is that there is still no Casey's in Youngstown.

[UNDBIZ]

Lots of "butthurt" here.

[Bisonator]

Is Terry Handley, CEO of Casey's General Store, involved in any of the negotiations. It appears there is still no Casey's in Grand Forks and I am guessing that membership in the MVFC is contingent upon Casey's opening up at a location close to the Alerus.

And the other half of the equation is that there is still no Casey's in Youngstown.
The plot thickens!:D

[F'N Hawks]

You don't know much about Patty, do you?

Not as much as you do, I am sure. What should I know that would affect this situation?

[Bison56]

Lots of "butthurt" here.

That's deep.

[Redbird007]

I see on Rebirdfan board references to Patti that are cryptic as well. Someone spill the beans as to her status and what this means>>>>"You don't know much about Patty?" She works for the MVFC which in turn is controlled by the Presidents of the Universities...correct?

[F'N Hawks]

Lots of "butthurt" here.

Curbstompin'.

[Thumper 76]

So I've decided to look at this from the perspective of why the MVFC would let UND in, especially since they have had the stance of not adding any more members. From a fans perspective I think it's dumb, but there are two scenarios that are possible that could be in play to get the MVFC schools on board for adding them.

First scenario is somebody is leaving the conference and opening up room for UND. You would have thought that there would already be rumors out there somewhere about that happening, but let's look at the possibilities anyways. It is possible that one or two of the schools have already been talking to the MVFC the same way UND has been talking to the Sky. The schools I could see as candidates for this would be YSU, Missouri St, or NDSU. NDSU is the least likely in my book because of the amount of fan scrutiny involved with them but there is a tiny possibility that they have received an invite to FBS that they find acceptable and plan to announce it after the season is over. Small chance, but I'm just brainstorming here. Missouri State could have the same thing or maybe are looking at another FCS conference where they feel they could get to be competitive in like the Southland. The one that is the most interesting to me is YSU. Is it possible that URI in the CAA is looking at going to the NEC or Pioneer and YSU has been contacted about possibly joining that conference? That would cause a fairly dramatic shift in the conference, and as much as a lot of us would be happy to go back to a round robin format it's a much easier sell for UND to the MVFC that adding them keeps the status quo. I don't think any of these are that likely but I would guess the YSU one has the best chance.

The second scenario is they have been able to sell the eastern schools the idea that it will save them money and told the western/Summit schools that they won't join the Summit without an MVFC invite. We all know how much the eastern schools are about that. And it would save the east schools money I think. Getting to drop another chartered flight out west would be an easy sell to them, especially the Illinois schools. That and if I'm an eastern school, the idea of being able to drop two of the west schools off my schedule would be a great advantage for them. How many years do you think that YSU makes the playoffs if they get to not play one of UNI, SDSU, or NDSU in November on top of one of the schools they have already rotated off of? So in the end they get a competitive advantage AND get to save money. The schools that don't get to rotate off of the Dakotas and UNI are mostly Summit schools. That gives UND some leverage there because realistically adding them to the Summit does help for travel and a better number of teams for basketball, or possibly they promise to add baseball back if they are allowed in the MVFC. Plus they can lean on the Dakota schools to support them most likely. NDSU basically has to support them, and that likely means they get support from SDSU if UND leverages NDSU into helping them. Unfortunately I don't think the Dakota schools are looking at this from the perspective a lot of us that aren't happy are, but more from an adding a regional rivalry perspective, the possibility of more teams=more playoff bids, and a close road trip that saves money. Unfortunately it's always about the money and I doubt that getting a screwy schedule is going to stop it.

I think the second scenario is pretty likely unfortunately. As one of the two teams that regularly has to play every other year at two of the top teams, I hate the idea of an even more unbalanced schedule since I doubt that the MVFC will stop screwing SDSU and UNI that way, but I'm not sure what is going to stop it.


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[Sioux24/7]

Is Terry Handley, CEO of Casey's General Store, involved in any of the negotiations. It appears there is still no Casey's in Grand Forks and I am guessing that membership in the MVFC is contingent upon Casey's opening up at a location close to the Alerus.

And the other half of the equation is that there is still no Casey's in Youngstown.

Funny you should say that. I've heard that Casey's may be buying University Station by the REA.

[jacksfan29]

These are people who actually have ties to the SD State Government. The other ones were apart of the athletics at SDSU so I trust them enough to know when they say something that I can stand behind it.

Maybe these sources are USD grads, or are they UND grads?

This rumor about South Dakota goes back to USD taking the Summit/MVFC bid over the Big Sky bid. Some (note F'Hawks I didn't say all) UND fans needed to justify why USD would leave them hanging and not choose the "better" option of the Big Sky. One siouxsports poster (you know which one) started the rumor that the SD State Legislature and SD Regents threw a fit and forced SDSU to push for an MVFC invite for USD because the two schools HAD to stay together. According to this one source USD were than forced to accept the "inferior" offer from the Summit/MVFC instead of this AWESOME offer to go west and join UND in the Big Sky. This wasn't true. USD's administration were smart. They knew that the travel costs and playing games in the Mountain and Pacific time zone against schools the alumni didn't care about would kill their athletics and leave them in the same position UND are now in. They leveraged their Summit membership and their positive relationship with SDSU, NDSU and UNI to get what was best for their school. SDSU, NDSU and UNI all went to bat for USD because it was the right thing to do for both conferences. USD was a good fit, geographically they were actually better than SDSU and NDSU. Their invite stabilized the Summit, they are a good school and they gave the MVFC a buffer against the possible departure of YSU (who may never leave).

As for UND. The Summit would like them because they get the conference to 10 and they are a better option than any of the other schools who may currently be available. However, like many I can't see why the MVFC would want UND unless there is more to the story. If the eastern schools are willing to accept UND into the conference my guess is there is more going on here than we know and that unknown benefits the MVC. The timeline is interesting. If indeed you are looking at 3 years from now is it possible there is a 12th member coming on? A member who may have a relationship with the MVC?

[Yote 53]

Just skipped to the end of this long thread after getting to about page 16 and still reading the same bantering over and over.

For the MVFC to be open to bringing UND on now something must be happening. I remember back, sometime over the last year, there was a meeting between the commissioners of the BSC, MVFC, and Summit, speculation was that it was to discuss how FCS football would be structured in the western U.S. There have been a lot of things happening recently with Idaho coming to the FCS, maybe there are more?

One thing I will point out is that the constant talk of YSU to the CAA, MSU to FBS Sunbelt, and now a financial crisis in Illinois that has WIU possibly on the ropes is not helping anything. UNI fans are not happy about UND joining but I have to ask them, where is the stability in the MVFC currently coming from? The East, with these schools teetering about their support for football and the MVFC? Or the West with schools that are dumping resources into the sport and who now occupy the top half of the conference standings? UNI can be pissed about losing rivalries, I get that, but I have to ask if the best thing for UNI football going forward is to now associate with the schools who are stable. I suppose you can be pissed at the Dakota schools but we aren't causing instability, quite the opposite. In the end you might just be thankful the Dakota schools came along to provide a solid backbone to the conference.

Back to YSU, MSU, and WIU. Those rumblings coming from the East do not help. Stability is key and UND will provide stability, in the Summit and in the MVFC. You can count on them to be a conference mate for the next 80 years or so. You take them in now when the opportunity presents itself and work out the details later.

As a USD fan I don't like the conference imbalance adding UND will bring. It's tough enough as is without having to set yourself up to have to run through the Western gauntlet. I do have to remind myself, however, that USD, SDSU, and NDSU must be fine with the gauntlet because they have each voluntarily put UND on their OOC schedule and each of them voluntarily seek out the best of the BSC to play OOC. The Dakota schools aren't afraid of the competition, I think it's more about how the eastern schools will have an easier path to a conference title. It's about fairness in a conference race.

In the end, I think something must be happening with some other schools in the MVFC to cause the door to be open. Either that or there really are serious financial issues at UND. It would be bad for FCS football to fail at UND. It would be bad for that school's athletic dept to implode due to overwhelming costs. University presidents have relationships. They help each other. They don't make decisions out of spite. They want to associate with peer schools. This isn't Monopoly where the object is to put the other school out of business. In fact, FCS football folding is bad business for all of us. The decision to add UND to the MVFC makes sense on many levels and it also makes sense for the BSC to release them. It will overall strengthen the structure of FCS football in the western U.S.

[nodak651]

You guys are ignoring the biggest benefit to the MVFC, imo. Don't you guys always complain about how the MVFC cannibalizes itself during conference play? I'd have to think that another football team would help in this regard?

[geaux_sioux]

I can't imagine UND dropping football. That seems extreme from my sideline perspective. UND in of itself has many strong characteristics that would generally make it a good conference addition except...LOCATION .... its location is really difficult since there is already an MVFC member that reps that area well. Can we move UND to Janesville WI?

UND will never drop football. The football alumni are way too powerful.

[goyotes]

Funny you should say that. I've heard that Casey's may be buying University Station by the REA.

Well, that settles it. Welcome to the MVFC

[F'N Hawks]

In the end, I think something must be happening with some other schools in the MVFC to cause the door to be open. Either that or there really are serious financial issues at UND. It would be bad for FCS football to fail at UND. It would be bad for that school's athletic dept to implode due to overwhelming costs. University presidents have relationships. They help each other. They don't make decisions out of spite. They want to associate with peer schools. This isn't Monopoly where the object is to put the other school out of business. In fact, FCS football folding is bad business for all of us. The decision to add UND to the MVFC makes sense on many levels and it also makes sense for the BSC to release them. It will overall strengthen the structure of FCS football in the western U.S.

Would UND just drop football or maybe shut down the entire athletic department over the 700K deficit? Lot of options here on AGS for them to consider. Personally, I am waiting for the Eide Bailly report to make up my mind. xrolleyesx

[Bisonator]

I just got the text! UND to the Summit and MVFC. Wichita State adds FB in the MVFC. We going FBS boys and girls. Siouxvolley made it all happen!xlolx

[jacksfan29]

I see on Rebirdfan board references to Patti that are cryptic as well. Someone spill the beans as to her status and what this means>>>>"You don't know much about Patty?" She works for the MVFC which in turn is controlled by the Presidents of the Universities...correct?

She actually works for the MVC

http://www.mvc-sports.com/valleyinfo/directory/59/patty-viverito/#.WCCmyyIzWM8

[abc123]

You don't know much about Patty, do you?
Here is what I know about Patty: For multiple years, she has privately and publicly stated that the MVFC is not expanding to 11 teams, end of discussion. This was the case as recently as just a few months ago. Now all of the sudden her and UND's athletic director are sending texts about possible entry dates for UND joining the MVFC. Something changed and UND is now exploring the one option it at no point previously had: Summit/MVFC membership.

I get (some) of the teeth gnashing going on, but if I'm a current MVFC member, I'm more curious on what is going on that has caused the change in stance. As much as I would like it to be the case, UND doesn't hold some magical power to get people to do things for them that aren't mutually beneficial. There's a reason the MVFC is all of the sudden willing to discuss membership.

The whole budget thing at UND is being overblown considerably. They made their budget before the state legislature capped tuition, causing a projected deficit that was covered internally with revenues that also exceeded projections. The bigger issue when the state-mandated budget cuts were enforced and they had already used the extra funds to cover the deficit from the tuition cap. Cutting baseball and golf covered the majority of that and the budget is fine. The most recent meetings were mostly about setting the department up for future budgets and right-sizing the sports offered. This isn't just a UND thing, NDSU also is looking at having to cut (or replace) somewhere around $1 million of their athletic budget due to cuts in state funding as well.

[1984]

I am neither for or against such a move. It certainly would be good for UND when considering budget. But it is also nice to have the two North Dakota schools in different conferences as it does bring a wider range of FCS schools involved and results in more attention for North Dakota in general.

[Yote 53]

I get (some) of the teeth gnashing going on, but if I'm a current MVFC member, I'm more curious on what is going on that has caused the change in stance. As much as I would like it to be the case, UND doesn't hold some magical power to get people to do things for them that aren't mutually beneficial. There's a reason the MVFC is all of the sudden willing to discuss membership.

This is where I am at too. Something is happening that opened the door for UND to the MVFC. Actually, I don't think UND to the MVFC is the big story here. The big story is what is happening on the other end, at some other school, that opened the door on this discussion. Anybody heard any rumblings at YSU, MSU, WIU, etc? A YSU or MSU switching conferences would stink but I could get over it. WIU dropping football or something like that would be devastating, would make me sick.

[clenz]

Just skipped to the end of this long thread after getting to about page 16 and still reading the same bantering over and over.

For the MVFC to be open to bringing UND on now something must be happening. I remember back, sometime over the last year, there was a meeting between the commissioners of the BSC, MVFC, and Summit, speculation was that it was to discuss how FCS football would be structured in the western U.S. There have been a lot of things happening recently with Idaho coming to the FCS, maybe there are more?

One thing I will point out is that the constant talk of YSU to the CAA, MSU to FBS Sunbelt, and now a financial crisis in Illinois that has WIU possibly on the ropes is not helping anything. UNI fans are not happy about UND joining but I have to ask them, where is the stability in the MVFC currently coming from? The East, with these schools teetering about their support for football and the MVFC? Or the West with schools that are dumping resources into the sport and who now occupy the top half of the conference standings? UNI can be pissed about losing rivalries, I get that, but I have to ask if the best thing for UNI football going forward is to now associate with the schools who are stable. I suppose you can be pissed at the Dakota schools but we aren't causing instability, quite the opposite. In the end you might just be thankful the Dakota schools came along to provide a solid backbone to the conference.

Back to YSU, MSU, and WIU. Those rumblings coming from the East do not help. Stability is key and UND will provide stability, in the Summit and in the MVFC. You can count on them to be a conference mate for the next 80 years or so. You take them in now when the opportunity presents itself and work out the details later.

As a USD fan I don't like the conference imbalance adding UND will bring. It's tough enough as is without having to set yourself up to have to run through the Western gauntlet. I do have to remind myself, however, that USD, SDSU, and NDSU must be fine with the gauntlet because they have each voluntarily put UND on their OOC schedule and each of them voluntarily seek out the best of the BSC to play OOC. The Dakota schools aren't afraid of the competition, I think it's more about how the eastern schools will have an easier path to a conference title. It's about fairness in a conference race.

In the end, I think something must be happening with some other schools in the MVFC to cause the door to be open. Either that or there really are serious financial issues at UND. It would be bad for FCS football to fail at UND. It would be bad for that school's athletic dept to implode due to overwhelming costs. University presidents have relationships. They help each other. They don't make decisions out of spite. They want to associate with peer schools. This isn't Monopoly where the object is to put the other school out of business. In fact, FCS football folding is bad business for all of us. The decision to add UND to the MVFC makes sense on many levels and it also makes sense for the BSC to release them. It will overall strengthen the structure of FCS football in the western U.S.
YSU gets bandied about to the CAA by me more than anyone else. Seriously, research that. That's simply to ruffle feathers. I find it far too easy, and enjoyable, to ruffle YSU posters up.

MSU to the Sun Belt isn't happening.
MSU to the SLC isn't happening.
MSU has been MVFC/Gateway members in 4 decades now. MVC members for 3. They aren't leaving the MVC for the Southland.

No Illinois schools in the MVC/MVFC are closing. Schools like Chicago State? Yeah. Possible. Illinois State and Southern Illinois? No.

Where's the stability coming from? Not going to ND twice a year and SD once adds financial stability to the Illinois schools. We still have an autobid today if every single summit team left in the next hour. WE still have the bid. YOU don't. The MVFC survived with 6-8 teams before. It can do it again.

The best move for UNI, as an entire athletic department/university, is not aligning with USD, WIU, UND, etc... for everything. Our best move is aligning east with universities that we have been with for four decades and attempting to move forward without having to be tied to 4 universities all at once because NDSU and SDSU can't go anywhere without each other and they can't go anywhere without USD and UND.

[Redbird007]

As Scott stated WIU dropping football does not seem possible.

[nodak651]

YSU gets bandied about to the CAA by me more than anyone else. Seriously, research that. That's simply to ruffle feathers. I find it far too easy, and enjoyable, to ruffle YSU posters up.

MSU to the Sun Belt isn't happening.
MSU to the SLC isn't happening.
MSU has been MVFC/Gateway members in 4 decades now. MVC members for 3. They aren't leaving the MVC for the Southland.

No Illinois schools in the MVC/MVFC are closing. Schools like Chicago State? Yeah. Possible. Illinois State and Southern Illinois? No.

Where's the stability coming from? Not going to ND twice a year and SD once adds financial stability to the Illinois schools. We still have an autobid today if every single summit team left in the next hour. WE still have the bid. YOU don't. The MVFC survived with 6-8 teams before. It can do it again.

The best move for UNI, as an entire athletic department/university, is not aligning with USD, WIU, UND, etc... for everything. Our best move is aligning east with universities that we have been with for four decades and attempting to move forward without having to be tied to 4 universities all at once because NDSU and SDSU can't go anywhere without each other and they can't go anywhere without USD and UND.


Well, if that is the case, ALL of the dakota schools should leave the MVFC if they don't have the same interests in mind. Should join Montana, EWU, Montana State, and Idaho and start a new conference. Add Denver and Omaha for Olympic sports. Nice 10 team conference, with a perfect 8 for football. UND and Denver did it with hockey and the NCHC, and the Montanas and Dakotas should do it for football and olympics.

Edit: Include Weber somehow and it would probably be comparable or better to the MVC basketball conference anyway (after Wichita leaves)

[Yote 53]

Not really. That's how you get stuck in a conference with Nebraksa-Omaha, Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, Indiana University-Purdue University Fort Wayne, and Denver. That conference might actually have a similar foot print to the Big Sky.

While there may be nothing wrong with the education at those schools, you get to build a conference around any schools that even try to show a pulse because those schools are the epitome of no other options.

Denver had a chance at the MVC, but they don't sponsor enough MVC sports and didn't want to add sports to get there. They are too focused on their hockey, lacrosse, gymanastics and ski teams. That's fine for them. They offer half of the men's sports The Summit Sponsors and half of the women's sports the conference offers.They don't have cross country or Track&Field for either gender, softball or volleyball on the womens side and baseball or swimming and diving on the men's side. That's why the MVC told them no a few years ago. They couldn't meet core criteria for membership and were unwilling to devert anything from their hockey and lacrosse programs to start a volleyball and softball program. I haven't, and won't, look at how they match any other conferences but I'm going to bet they won't meet core requirements without special waivers for any other conference. I supposed the West Coast Conference may take them, but they are at 10 currently. Hell, I'd bet if BYU hadn't joined in 2010 Denver would be there by now. They seem like a great fit honestly. BYU is an extreme outlier but every other school has between 3,000-6,000 students, is private, they offer all but 2 of the sports offered on the mens side, though I suppose the womens side could be an issue since they don't offer volleyball, softball or cross country (and the WCC offers beach volleyball).

The alphabet Indiana schools are willing to let those with a hint of a vision lead because they realize they are a conference alignment issue away from becoming true satellite campus or online programs (some exageration added but not sure how much). I guess maybe the OVC would take them, but they are already at 12 members. I can't imagine they'd be too keen on going to 14 but I won't pretend to know exactly their thoughts on 14 members. Doomsday scenario we'll assume the OVC absorbs them. Same could be said for the Horizon. They seem to fit there and the Horizon only has 10, so they might be willing to bring two in.

ORU has burned every bridge possible, probably twice for most of them, but I'd venture the SLC takes them back again because they have no issue with eleven thousand members. Seriously, ORU was Midwestern Collegiate Conference (now Horizon) from 1979-1987. For 1988/89 they moved back to NAIA. They moved back to D1 in 1991 and joined the MidCon (Summit) in 1997. They left the Summit for the Southland in 2012. They left the Southland for the Summit in 2014. SLC is currently at 13. A 14th would "even" it out and actually be a better geographic fit for the SLC. Problem is, ORU is a lot like Liberty. I don't think most of that university is too welcomed in too many places. It's also funny they cited having to travel to San Antonio, Houston, etc... and by adding schools in those locations The SLC wasn't looking out for their needs, yet traveling to Denver, Fargo, Brookings, Vermillion, Fort Wayne, IN, Macomb, IL, etc... isn't an issue. I think reasons run deeper than that in that the Summit "needs" ORU more than the SLC did. ORU's needs/ego wouldn't be curtailed too in the SLC like The Summit.

Omaha? That's a mess of an athletic department only topped by UND right now. If the Summit falls through the Nebraska BOR will drop them back to D2 faster than they dropped the football/wrestling teams to move D1. UNO will always be, at best, 5th on the Omaha pecking list behind Creighton, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State and I wouldn't be shocked if Kansas/K State would be a head of UNO.

Sure, The Summit schools help the MVFC. However, the schools in The Summit might need to be more worried about what happens to their football programs if something bad happens to the conference. The MVFC is a football only league. It doesn't GAF where your other teams play. It only cares about where your football teams play. So unless The Summit FB programs have a new football home in mind - remember you don't have enough for an AQ - threatening the MVFC/MVC/YSU isn't the smartest move to make.

Funny, I was just at Baxter Arena in Omaha yesterday. ORU and UNO had a volleyball match going on too. Those people in Omaha are hyped about UNO athletics now. It's all about UNO hockey and it is spilling over to UNO basketball.

Clenz, you couldn't be more wrong about the state of UNO athletics. You sit there and spout off about the Summit yet your sorry MVC just added Loyola-Chicago, Creighton left the conference high and dry and Wichita is looking to GTFO. Sorry, but the MVC isn't what it used to be.

[Redbird007]

I just got the text! UND to the Summit and MVFC. Wichita State adds FB in the MVFC. We going FBS boys and girls. Siouxvolley made it all happen!xlolx

I just got a text....Illinois State joining big 10 immediately. If they beat Mo State this weekend they will be FBS bowl eligible at 6-5 and take Rose Bowl berth since they will be undefeated in big 10 play via their mighty 9 - 7 victory over Northwestern.

[centennial]

Well, if that is the case, ALL of the dakota schools should leave the MVFC if they don't have the same interests in mind. Should join Montana, EWU, Montana State, and Idaho and start a new conference. Add Denver and Omaha for Olympic sports. Nice 10 team conference, with a perfect 8 for football. UND and Denver did it with hockey and the NCHC, and the Montanas and Dakotas should do it for football and olympics.

Edit: Include Weber somehow and it would probably be comparable or better to the MVC basketball conference anyway (after Wichita leaves)

Nope, we aren't leaving. NDSU is MVFC, or going FBS. There is no going to another FCS conference. Neither will SDSU, USD. Neither is Montana leaving the Big Sky. Completely idiotic.

I am curious if Missouri State or NDSU might be considering FBS. UND would be a replacement to NDSU. Would SDSU come along too?

[IBleedYellow]

I don't want to go FBS.

Ugh.

[nodak651]

Nope, we aren't leaving. NDSU is MVFC, or going FBS. There is no going to another FCS conference. Neither will SDSU, USD. Neither is Montana leaving the Big Sky. Completely idiotic.

I am curious if Missouri State or NDSU might be considering FBS. UND would be a replacement to NDSU. Would SDSU come along too?

Fail to see how that would be idiotic. You might not want to do it, but it would not be a bad set up. And you would be aligned with more like-minded institutions.

[Thumper 76]

Fail to see how that would be idiotic. You might not want to do it, but it would not be a bad set up. And you would be aligned with more like-minded institutions.

It's idiotic because it has less chance of happening than UND getting an invite to the B1G.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nodak651]

It's idiotic because it has less chance of happening than UND getting an invite to the B1G.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And just a few days ago there was no chance of UND joining the MVFC.

[clenz]

Funny, I was just at Baxter Arena in Omaha yesterday. ORU and UNO had a volleyball match going on too. Those people in Omaha are hyped about UNO athletics now. It's all about UNO hockey and it is spilling over to UNO basketball.

Clenz, you couldn't be more wrong about the state of UNO athletics. You sit there and spout off about the Summit yet your sorry MVC just added Loyola-Chicago, Creighton left the conference high and dry and Wichita is looking to GTFO. Sorry, but the MVC isn't what it used to be.

With all 460 people in attendance.

Of you believe UNO will ever be more than 5th in the Omaha pecking order you're delusional.

Creighton
Nebraska
Iowa State
Iowa

UNO will never touch those in Omaha fan pecking order.

The top 60% of them MVC is as good as it's been. The problem is the bottom of the conference with Bradley and Drake has fallen completely off of the face of the earth.

[jacksfan29]

SDSU is not going FBS and there is no place for NDSU to go. Do you think you are getting an invite to the MWC? Nope. If, a big IF the MWC expands it has already been made clear they are going to Texas and bringing on UTEP (old WAC rivals who want back in) with one other Texas school (Rice or UTSA). NDSU is not getting an invite to the MAC. The closest school is over 700 miles away. If any FCS school gets a MAC invite it would be ISUr, UNI or YSU who all fit the footprint. None of them are moving up anytime soon. UNI make noise but where would the funding come from? You aren't going to get any UI or ISU money.

You are correct that Montana is not leaving the Big Sky and they are also not moving up. They aren't happy but they built that conference and they aren't leaving unless an MWC invite comes, not happening (see above).

Missouri State? Can't see it. The Sun Belt have been very vocal about consolidating their footprint. Missouri State, and let's just bring them up; Wichita State are outside of that footprint.

I do think there is more to UND possibly getting an invite but I highly doubt any MVFC schools are moving up to FBS. And that includes Clenz's beloved UNI.


Nope, we aren't leaving. NDSU is MVFC, or going FBS. There is no going to another FCS conference. Neither will SDSU, USD. Neither is Montana leaving the Big Sky. Completely idiotic.

I am curious if Missouri State or NDSU might be considering FBS. UND would be a replacement to NDSU. Would SDSU come along too?

[Thundar]

speculation threads are funny

[Yote 53]

With all 460 people in attendance.

Of you believe UNO will ever be more than 5th in the Omaha pecking order you're delusional.

Creighton
Nebraska
Iowa State
Iowa

UNO will never touch those in Omaha fan pecking order.

The top 60% of them MVC is as good as it's been. The problem is the bottom of the conference with Bradley and Drake has fallen completely off of the face of the earth.

I'd never say never about Omaha fans. They love themselves a winner and UNO making it to the Dance would have them crawling out of the woodwork. They put a ton of money into Baxter and it is nice. No way they pull the plug on D1 they are here to stay.

I understand what you say about the MVC now, but you have to admit that once WSU leaves, which it looks like they are wanting to do, that UNI is going to look around and see that they are the only one left standing at the top of that conference.

[AmsterBison]

News flash, your old AD already stepped to that level when he banded with Tom D. to help keep UND Baseball out of the Summit. Against the wishes of his own baseball coach.

Good point. I keep underestimating what pricks you guys are. Thanks for the reminder.

[clenz]

Little secret, UNI already has feelers out. Likely leads no where fast but they are out.

WSU is going no where any time soon. If they had football, sure. They'd be MWC. But they won't be starting football and getting into the MWC without some major shifts.

The conference dropped scheduling requirements about 5 years ago and that's when **** really hit the fan with the bottom of the league. A look at rpi of the bottom 3 or 4 compared to 6+ years ago makes that real evident.

[centennial]

Fail to see how that would be idiotic. You might not want to do it, but it would not be a bad set up. And you would be aligned with more like-minded institutions.
There is no reason to move from a stable situation. Why would we? So that UND has a home? Like I said the Montana schools aren't moving either. Basically you are saying we should move back to Great West 2. There is no motivation at NDSU to be on the same conference as UND. Yes, we will have to provide lip service, but that's it.

[F'N Hawks]

Good point. I keep underestimating what pricks you guys are. Thanks for the reminder.

Not really applicable to what I wrote since it was true. But wait, I am sure something will pop up.

[F'N Hawks]

There is no reason to move from a stable situation. Why would we? So that UND has a home? Like I said the Montana schools aren't moving either. Basically you are saying we should move back to Great West 2. There is no motivation at NDSU to be on the same conference as UND. Yes, we will have to provide lip service, but that's it.

There is no "we". You are nobody. You hang out on a message board and say stupid things.

[Utgrizfan]

Seems like a smart move for UND and not a bad move for the MVFC as they're getting a good school with a pretty solid football program that has been improving every single year.

[BisonBacker]

If I was UNI, I wouldn't want another team that will be better than us joining the conference either.

This is Fawking Hilarious! You guys will be exposed if you make it to the playoffs.

[UNDBIZ]

Where would UNI and ISUr get their quality losses if the summit schools left the mvfc?

[taper]

As long as we're speculating, how about this: MVFC, BSC, OVC, and Southland have 44 teams with Idaho coming down. Add one more (NMSU?) and you could have five 9 team conferences. Ideal for scheduling. Massive shakeup that would have to split some rivalries but the result would be better overall. BSC at 14+ isn't stable and will do something.

[Laker]

As long as we're speculating, how about this: MVFC, BSC, OVC, and Southland have 44 teams with Idaho coming down. Add one more (NMSU?) and you could have five 9 team conferences. Ideal for scheduling. Massive shakeup that would have to split some rivalries but the result would be better overall. BSC at 14+ isn't stable and will do something.

Grand Canyon used to talk about adding football. Would they if they had an opportunity?

[BisonBacker]

UND brings another ultra stable member. There is value in that.xlolx What the F#$K are you smoking? Ultastable? Look at that **** show up North and say that again without laughing.

[BisonBacker]

You don't like them possibly coming in, good for you. If someone leaves then they are a good fit. Geographically, they are a good fit.

Million teams? xlolx

Not many FCS would leave their conference to going the Valley. EIU? No Who else? Most FCS schools in the west are in the Big Sky. Name these million schools that will drop their current conference membership to come to the Valley.

Nothing with them has changed. The past is in the past yes but lets not forget the lessons learned. Nothing in Bismarck has changed (see the Brescani witch hunt). Nothing up North has changed see the cluster **** their budget is. Look at their fans (check their own fanboard). Why bring that crap back to the present or future. Yes best leave it in the past and move on. If I want NDSU to get ****ed over yeah I'm all for this move. That's all it will mean in the future guaranteed!

[BisonBacker]

Pull your head out of your *ss....you just acknowledged with your smart *ss comment that it is more expensive for MVFC schools to add UND. So why should ISU spend even one dollar to add UND when they get NO benefit. Now I am starting to hate UND! Get used to it if they were to be added. That is where most of their fans heads reside. Deep up their backside!

[BisonBacker]

I get that. However, that all further emphasizes my point

Sd has 750k people. ND has 850k people. Eventually that oil money is going to stop flowing to the state eventually people stop moving to ND and start moving out. To tie all 4 together, and then allowing a school from a third state to be in in it, is just begging for bad things to happen should a shift come about. If your states are unwilling to let some thrive because the other isn't thriving all 4 will be held back in perpetuity.

You nailed it. There is a reason the SBOHE wants NDSU's president gone. Look at the growth of NDSU and the cluster that is up North. You are also spot on about the number of schools in the state of ND (11) which is idiotic.

[F'N Hawks]

You nailed it. There is a reason the SBOHE wants NDSU's president gone. Look at the growth of NDSU and the cluster that is up North. You are also spot on about the number of schools in the state of ND (11) which is idiotic.

Can you go away, you weirdo? Some of you guys have clinical anger/obsession issues.

[jacksfan29]

Little secret, UNI already has feelers out. Likely leads no where fast but they are out.

WSU is going no where any time soon. If they had football, sure. They'd be MWC. But they won't be starting football and getting into the MWC without some major shifts.

The conference dropped scheduling requirements about 5 years ago and that's when **** really hit the fan with the bottom of the league. A look at rpi of the bottom 3 or 4 compared to 6+ years ago makes that real evident.

To where are these feelers going? The MAC? Unless NIU is going somewhere there isn't room. I guess the could go to 14 and add another school to the east but why? There is no benefit to them. UNI could try and get into the Horizon... oops, no FB. So if you go to the Horizon where do you put your FB? The MVFC or you drop scholarship FB and join Drake in the Pioneer.

Your right about WSU. They have ZERO shot at the Mountain West with or without FB. They are also not getting into the SBC, AAC or CUSA. WSU are stuck in the MVC. They can add football but I think it is pretty clear from the last statements made by their president that FBS is not likely an option which means it is a 50/50 toss up as to whether they bring the sport back.

[BisonBacker]

Can you go away, you weirdo? Some of you guys have clinical anger/obsession issues. LOL we just have a brain and our memory from 13+ years ago. Don't want to see the past mistakes being made again with you fools.

[siouxfan512]

I may as well throw my 2 cents out there, and hopefully it comes across as fairly reasonable, regardless of the team you support.

I’m pretty impartial to whether or not UND is in the Big Sky or the MVFC. On the one hand, watching Big Sky football has been fun, and there is certainly some great talent in E. Wash, Montana, Montana St (usually), and several other teams that bounce up and down every season. On the other hand, being in a conference with the other Dakota schools makes sense. Proximity fuels rivalries, and certainly makes it more enjoyable for fans. More fans can travel to GF for games, and for UND fans can travel to away games. Probably the most important piece of the puzzle for UND is the obvious one. Travel costs in the Big Sky must be absolutely killing UND right. I hate the idea of cutting sports and limiting opportunities for kids, but in terms of operating a business, this is a necessary evil that UND has chosen to ignore.

I will certainly acknowledge the opposition by many Bison fans, though I think you can break that group into sever smaller ones … at least this is my perception.

1. Fan’s who would like UND to join MVFC. Loved the old rivalry. Have family connections to both schools. Assuming UND can stay competitive, would add yet another strong opponent to an already strong conference.
2. NDSU fans who want nothing to do with a move that would help UND. There is still a lot of bad blood from when NDSU made the move to D1 and UND wouldn’t schedule them. I’d like to make it clear, that I do side with NDSU fans on this frustration. I wanted UND to keep scheduling NDSU during the move and I thought it was dumb not to do so. (In reality UND should have moved to D1 at the same time, and it would have been interesting to see how the landscape of NDSU/UND football would look). However, this was a different time. Different ADs, Different Coaches, and so on. It the same reason I don’t blame NDSU for scheduling UND up until last season. NDSU was already on top of the FCS world, and UND was in a rebuild position. NDSU didn’t need to schedule a weaker team, and if they wanted to, they could pick whomever they wanted (Incarnate Word, Mississippi St, Etc.) They certainly were not obliged to schedule UND. That being said, UND also agreed to two away games at NDSU, which I think is a pretty solid way of Bubba saying he wants to restart something, even if it comes at a price up front. IMO, UND started that mess, but I think it has also been long enough that we can move on from it.
3. NDSU fans who legitimately hate UND. The rivalry cannot be friendly for them. They want nothing to do with the school up North. They would prefer UND fold up their athletics program and their school. Unfortunately there are fans like this, and let’s be honest, every fan base has them (including UND). These are the kind of people that would prefer to pick a fight before, during, or after a game. I personally don’t understand this mentality from anybody. I have in-laws who are big time NDSU fans, and have been for a long time, Going tailgating with them is a blast. Almost all of the NDSU fans like to rib me a bit for whatever UND gear I’m wearing then they toss me a beer and we have a good time. I guess I’ve always thought that having that kind of a rivalry, where you can yell and give people a hard time, then have a beer together when it is all done, is much more enjoyable than legitimately hating someone you don’t know because they have a Bison, Sioux, Hawk, etc. on their hat or shirt.

All in all, it looks like this move is pretty far along, and if it happens, I think everyone should just roll with it. Rivalries and personal feelings aside, it seems to be a smart move financially and logistically. So, for you MVFC/Bison/Coyote/USD/etc. fans, if this goes through, I look forward to making it to some away games and tailgating with you all. Hope we get to revive some old rivalries, and start some new ones.

[siouxfan512]

UND should bring back baseball and get rid of tennis and swimming. Summit needs another baseball school.

^This ... unfortunately nobody wants to make the hard call and cut a sport. I believe women's hockey hemorrhages money too.

[Schism55]

Very salient points siouxfan512.
UND in the Summit, especially with a revived baseball program makes a ton of sense.
Most of the opposition to UND in the MVFC is because of the unbalanced schedule it would create. Eastern schools having years of missing NDSU/SDSU, NDSU/UNI, SDSU/UNI and having a much easier shot at the conference title sucks.
If the MVFC is shedding another school or 2 while adding UND, I think you'll see lots of changed minds on the Hawks joining.
My 2c.

[siouxfan512]

Very salient points siouxfan512.
UND in the Summit, especially with a revived baseball program makes a ton of sense.
Most of the opposition to UND in the MVFC is because of the unbalanced schedule it would create. Eastern schools having years of missing NDSU/SDSU, NDSU/UNI, SDSU/UNI and having a much easier shot at the conference title sucks.
If the MVFC is shedding another school or 2 while adding UND, I think you'll see lots of changed minds on the Hawks joining.
My 2c.

That is understandable. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out for sure. I don't know enough about the status of all of the MVFC teams to know what the potential future is of the programs. I've heard rumblings that W. Ill would look at dropping football, but I have zero knowledge of if that would actually be realistic. Despite them making the playoffs last season and having success early this season, do they get much of a following?

I'd assume the people making these decisions are fairly informed. Regardless, I'd certainly enjoy playing our Dakota opponents again.

[taper]

This Bison fan is all for UND in the Summit...as long as they bring baseball. I'm still ok taking them without it but wouldn't campaign in their favor. I am very opposed to 11 teams in the MVFC. Not a UND specific item. Either way I'll always hate them.

[siouxfan512]

This Bison fan is all for UND in the Summit...as long as they bring baseball. I'm still ok taking them without it but wouldn't campaign in their favor. I am very opposed to 11 teams in the MVFC. Not a UND specific item. Either way I'll always hate them.

I get them, I'm probably a bit of an oddball when it comes to the rivalry. My first year in college was the last one of the rivalry. A very entertaining UND win in Grand Forks. Definitely a fun experience for a Freshman in college.

Once I started dating my (now wife), I kept a close tab on NDSU football because of how big of fans my (now in-laws) have been. I would never put on a Bison hat, but there have been situations where I have pulled for them. I generally pull for the underdog or lower level team in FBS matchups, which NDSU has clean up on over the past several years. And I certainly have more of a vested interest in NDSU than SHSU, Ill St, Jacksonville St and so on, so I'll half cheer for them in the playoffs. Now that my team is finally having a competitive season, its a little different, though a playoff match up between these schools would be a lot of fun, and you can bet I'll be there to tailgate.

Love them or Hate them, there is no doubt Bubba has done a great job of getting this program back on track. Very happy with what I'm seeing.

[ST_Lawson]

I've heard rumblings that W. Ill would look at dropping football, but I have zero knowledge of if that would actually be realistic. Despite them making the playoffs last season and having success early this season, do they get much of a following?

Not picking on you siouxfan, you make some good points. I'm just using your comment to ask a general question to the people who have brought it up.

I'm just curious about the people who have heard "rumbling" of WIU dropping football? Where is this rumbling coming from? Usually if there's something along these lines, I would have heard of it. I run our own fan message board and usually if there's a rumor of some kind, especially one that would be this huge, one of my contacts would have sent me a PM about it by now. I haven't heard one mention of this being a possibility in the near future.

As I mentioned elsewhere, more likely targets for us would be M/W Swimming/Diving, M/W Golf, W Tennis (but might be Title IX issues there). I think we'd be much more likely to cut all of those (and maybe reallocate a few women's scholarships towards women's soccer or maybe volleyball), than we would be to even consider dropping football.

[siouxfan512]

Not picking on you siouxfan, you make some good points. I'm just using your comment to ask a general question to the people who have brought it up.

I'm just curious about the people who have heard "rumbling" of WIU dropping football? Where is this rumbling coming from? Usually if there's something along these lines, I would have heard of it. I run our own fan message board and usually if there's a rumor of some kind, especially one that would be this huge, one of my contacts would have sent me a PM about it by now. I haven't heard one mention of this being a possibility in the near future.

As I mentioned elsewhere, more likely targets for us would be M/W Swimming/Diving, M/W Golf, W Tennis (but might be Title IX issues there). I think we'd be much more likely to cut all of those (and maybe reallocate a few women's scholarships towards women's soccer or maybe volleyball), than we would be to even consider dropping football.

Hey, I honestly couldn't tell you, I surf way too many of these forums, but I could have swore I read a post along those lines somewhere. Though if you haven't heard even a rumbling of it, then it is likely pure speculation. I'll be interest to see if they add UND, and if they add UND without dropping another football program. Only time will tell.

[Schism55]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that UND in the MVFC was a total non starter for years. Now that has obviously changed. I think that is why you have all the speculation of at least 1 MVFC team moving/dropping football. That may all be a tempest in a tea cup. But if the MVFC adds UND without shedding at least 1 team you will have a lot of pissed off folks, and rightfully so imho.

[ST_Lawson]

Hey, I honestly couldn't tell you, I surf way too many of these forums, but I could have swore I read a post along those lines somewhere. Though if you haven't heard even a rumbling of it, then it is likely pure speculation. I'll be interest to see if they add UND, and if they add UND without dropping another football program. Only time will tell.

No problem, I understand. I've seen how a a rumor or idea can get posted by one person somewhere, a couple of people pick it up and run with it and before long, AGS and all the conference forums are posting it like it's 90% sure to happen.


Happened with us a year or so ago when me and a few of our posters just kinda threw around some ideas on our own board...more of a "thought experiment" regarding "what would things look like if WIU decided to go DII", and all of the implications and effects that something like that would have. Next thing I know, everyone thinks we're for sure going DII.

I'm not going to say that it's impossible that we might make a change of some sort, or that someone else in the conference might be heading somewhere else (MSU to Sun Belt, YSU to CAA if someone there decided to leave, etc.), but if it's been discussed by anyone, I haven't heard a whisper of it at this point.

[dgtw]

Grand Canyon used to talk about adding football. Would they if they had an opportunity?

Them being a for-profit university will probably keep them out of a number of conferences unless they are desperate for warm bodies, which is how they got into the WAC.

I don't know if they'd want to start football without the promise of a conference home. UT-Rio Grande Valley is exploring the possibility of starting a team. I think Mack Brown is part of the search committee.

[dbackjon]

Them being a for-profit university will probably keep them out of a number of conferences unless they are desperate for warm bodies, which is how they got into the WAC.

I don't know if they'd want to start football without the promise of a conference home. UT-Rio Grande Valley is exploring the possibility of starting a team. I think Mack Brown is part of the search committee.


For GCU, the talk was either start DII football or move to DI. Since the move to DI, there has been zero talk of GCU football, add they have added other men's sports like soccer that it would be hard to add football.

[BisonBacker]

I'm sure the und political hacks are asking the North Dakota Politicians to try to pressure the Summit and MVFC into making them accept und xlolx I used the laughing emoticon but I'm dead serious. That is the way they work up north.

[dbackjon]

I think it is time to put the band back together!

UND
NDSU
USD
SDSU
UNI
UNC
UNO

And then get:

Minnesota State
UM-Duluth

[clenz]

I think it is time to put the band back together!

UND
NDSU
USD
SDSU
UNI
UNC
UNO

And then get:

Minnesota State
UM-Duluth
End the UNI athletic department.

[BisonBacker]

I think it is time to put the band back together!

UND
NDSU
USD
SDSU
UNI
UNC
UNO

And then get:

Minnesota State
UM-Duluth

You must really be on some strong drugs!

[abc123]

I'm sure the und political hacks are asking the North Dakota Politicians to try to pressure the Summit and MVFC into making them accept und xlolx I used the laughing emoticon but I'm dead serious. That is the way they work up north.
I wish UND had 10% of the power some of these theories give them credit for. UND controls the legislature despite having less members with ties serving than NDSU does. UND controls the SBoHE despite 4 of 8 members having NDSU ties and 1 of 8 having UND ties. UND is strong-arming the Summit and MVFC to allowing them in with zero benefit to the conferences.

The delusion remains strong.

[BisonBacker]

I wish UND had 10% of the power some of these theories give them credit for. UND controls the legislature despite having less members with ties serving than NDSU does. UND controls the SBoHE despite 4 of 7 members having NDSU ties and 1 of 7 having UND ties. UND is strong-arming the Summit and MVFC to allowing them in with zero benefit to the conferences.

The delusion remains strong.

History tells a different story. Do you want me to dredge up the forum articles regarding the und cronies crying to the state legislature about NDSU not playing you in football? Talk about delusion.

[Bison56]

This is Fawking Hilarious! You guys will be exposed if you make it to the playoffs.


History tells a different story. Do you want me to dredge up the forum articles regarding the und cronies crying to the state legislature about NDSU not playing you in football? Talk about delusion.


Some people have short memories.xnodx

[REALBird]

Maybe the package deal is UND by 2018/19 - Wichita State by 2019/2020. Split into East/West Divisions

West = NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, MSU, WSU
East = UNI, ISUr, WIU, ISUb, SIU, YSU

Nobody leaves, Patti V just tries to make everyone happy.

[abc123]

History tells a different story. Do you want me to dredge up the forum articles regarding the und cronies crying to the state legislature about NDSU not playing you in football? Talk about delusion.
Sure, go ahead. A couple bozos introduced a bill "encouraging" a game and it was absolutely destroyed and killed during committee hearings like it should have been. And don't forget to note that one of the bozos that sponsored the bill is an NDSU alum.

Seems like UND should have been able to mandate NDSU travel to Grand Forks yearly with all the power you give them.

[dbackjon]

End the UNI athletic department.


You must really be on some strong drugs!


Look Ma, I caught two! :)

[Schism55]

I think it is time to put the band back together!

UND
NDSU
USD
SDSU
UNI
UNC
UNO

And then get:

Minnesota State
UM-Duluth

Former band members Morningside and Augustana feel very slighted

[jacksfan29]

I'd go for that and it would make sense as to why UND would be getting looked at now, and why the article mentioned such a long delay before UND would start MVFC play.


Maybe the package deal is UND by 2018/19 - Wichita State by 2019/2020. Split into East/West Divisions

West = NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, MSU, WSU
East = UNI, ISUr, WIU, ISUb, SIU, YSU

Nobody leaves, Patti V just tries to make everyone happy.

[BisonTru]

I think it makes sense for the Dakota schools to support this despite UND's own decision's have been the driving force between the separation of UND and the rest of the Dakota schools. However, reading SS makes you want to vote them out. The majority of their fans seem to hate this idea. Moving to a better football conference, and a better basketball conference. All while renewing rivalries with the Dakota schools as well as basketball games with hockey rivals Denver and Omaha. This seems like a slam dunk win for UND, yet most of them are booing this whole idea.

[POD Knows]

I think it makes sense for the Dakota schools to support this despite UND's own decision's have been the driving force between the separation of UND and the rest of the Dakota schools. However, reading SS makes you want to vote them out. The majority of their fans seem to hate this idea. Moving to a better football conference, and a better basketball conference. All while renewing rivalries with the Dakota schools as well as basketball games with hockey rivals Denver and Omaha. This seems like a slam dunk win for UND, yet most of them are booing this whole idea.

Hey, they are the king of football in the BSC, why would they want to move, ****, they are going to be undefeated over there, probably get a seed, who the hell knows. They will be a bottom to middle tier program in the MVFC. The most attractive thing they have to offer their football recruits are trips to exotic places in the BSC.

[BisonTru]

Hey, they are the king of football in the BSC, why would they want to move, ****, they are going to be undefeated over there, probably get a seed, who the hell knows. They will be a bottom to middle tier program in the MVFC. The most attractive thing they have to offer their football recruits are trips to exotic places in the BSC.

I look at being in the Big Sky as a big recruiting disadvantage for UND. I'd have to imagine parents ability to get to games would be much higher for kids than visiting Sacramento. Any kid in MN that signs with UND currently their parents are probably going to have a difficult time seeing them play any away games.

That runs through all sports as well. Like I said earlier this is a huge win for UND. However, if their boosters and fans can't see that, let em stay in the Big Fluffy.

[Redbird007]

Maybe the package deal is UND by 2018/19 - Wichita State by 2019/2020. Split into East/West Divisions

West = NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, MSU, WSU
East = UNI, ISUr, WIU, ISUb, SIU, YSU

Nobody leaves, Patti V just tries to make everyone happy.

What is the advantage of two divisions vs one as respects to FCS playoffs? I understand potential reduction in travel costs but as respects to playoffs I can not think of any value. The conference already has an autobid for the current 10 members so adding 2 more schools just dilutes the autobid..correct? May not be a big deal since MVFC is sending multiple teams beyond the autobid to the FCS playoffs anyway? Or does winning the MVFC with more members nearly guarantee that the MVFC autobid is likely to be a top, if not the top, seed?

The more i look at this it situation it seems as though the Summitt members, despite some historic bitterness/hatred amongst summitt members and UND, gain overall by adding UND. However I do believe this will help UND football/basketball and will do so mostly (but not solely) at the expense of NDSU sports. I think it will also mildly impact the other Dakota schools sports adversely for recruiting and possible impact UNI a bit. When I say negatively impact I mean the schools will lose a recruit to UND that they would have otherwise signed. Again the biggest impact is likely to be on NDSU since those two schools share a backyard.

As for MVC members overall I just do not see the UND addition as a benefit nor big negative if there are two divisions. The negative will be the cost of traveling someplace far/difficult every few years (maybe every 4?) for a football game that adds no additional visibility / marketing exposure for the team/conference. That may not be a big deal if the MVFC becomes stronger?

[BisonFan02]

UND will never drop football. The football alumni are way too powerful.

xlolx

[TheKingpin28]

History tells a different story. Do you want me to dredge up the forum articles regarding the und cronies crying to the state legislature about NDSU not playing you in football? Talk about delusion.

But dont worry, according to some on this board, I am the delusional one and the one with the wrong information

[Laker]

Former band members Morningside and Augustana feel very slighted

Maroon Chief- I mean Mustang fans told me that they are happy making the NAIA playoffs every year in football instead of being on the bottom of the NCC. Augie fans actually were talking about going D1 after winning the D2 basketball national title last year.

St. Cloud's money situation is a disaster right now. Hockey is the big sport at UMD. MSU Mankato has about 17,000 students but won't go- too much apathy.

[Bisonoline]

Why would the bozos to the north want to join us when they have been bad mouthing the MVFC and summit for years.
Plus according to sioxsucksvolley they are going FBS anyway.

[POD Knows]

I look at being in the Big Sky as a big recruiting disadvantage for UND. I'd have to imagine parents ability to get to games would be much higher for kids than visiting Sacramento. Any kid in MN that signs with UND currently their parents are probably going to have a difficult time seeing them play any away games.

That runs through all sports as well. Like I said earlier this is a huge win for UND. However, if their boosters and fans can't see that, let em stay in the Big Fluffy.

You know what might be a negative for recruiting at UND, getting your ass spanked every year by NDSU and residing in the bottom of the MVFC.

[F'N Hawks]

Cool, it's Bisonville on AGS day, again. Ursus, could you somehow just replicate their forum on here to save these guys some time?

[siouxfan512]

I look at being in the Big Sky as a big recruiting disadvantage for UND. I'd have to imagine parents ability to get to games would be much higher for kids than visiting Sacramento. Any kid in MN that signs with UND currently their parents are probably going to have a difficult time seeing them play any away games.

That runs through all sports as well. Like I said earlier this is a huge win for UND. However, if their boosters and fans can't see that, let em stay in the Big Fluffy.

Don't let the small but vocal group on SS speak for all fans. There are plenty on the site that do want this, and I'm sure many that are not online posters approve of this as well.

Pretty much holds true for NDSU fans as well, the bisonville group is full of people who HATE this idea, some on here as well. Though there are plenty of NDSU people that have wanted to see this. The online community is small in comparison to all fans, but its a passionate and vocal group.

[MSUDuo]

Missouri State isn't, nor have they ever been, looking to move to another FCS conference. That would make no sense for any sport besides football.

If we are going to move for football, it might as well be up to FBS where we can at least meet MVC sports level in other sports (if Wichita State were to leave).

Love the MO State to OVC comments though. xbeerchugx

[clenz]

Missouri State isn't, nor have they ever been, looking to move to another FCS conference. That would make no sense for any sport besides football.

If we are going to move for football, it might as well be up to FBS where we can at least meet MVC sports level in other sports (if Wichita State were to leave).

Love the MO State to OVC comments though. xbeerchugx
I get quite a chuckle out of them as well.

Not as much as MSU having a sealed envelop on your ADs desk from CUSA, or the Sun Belt, or whatever it was a few years back saying you'd be added, but still funny none the less

[centennial]

Don't let the small but vocal group on SS speak for all fans. There are plenty on the site that do want this, and I'm sure many that are not online posters approve of this as well.

Pretty much holds true for NDSU fans as well, the bisonville group is full of people who HATE this idea, some on here as well. Though there are plenty of NDSU people that have wanted to see this. The online community is small in comparison to all fans, but its a passionate and vocal group.

You know who posts here? Fanatics. Regardless, it doesn't really do anything for the MVFC schools. Maybe the summit does extract something. The point being the schools look for themselves not for UND's interests.

That is why even the fact that MVFC is even discussing this is surprising. Plus, a lot us don't want the rivalry renewed, and the drama that comes with it. I don't hate UND, just don't want to be in the same league as them. Competitively it can go two ways, UND might have trouble adjusting and fall to the bottom of the league. They could also steal some recruits.

Plus, the MVFC is big enough, why are we trying to expand it? There is some missing piece of information.

[BisonFan02]

I get quite a chuckle out of them as well.

Not as much as MSU having a sealed envelop on your ADs desk from CUSA, or the Sun Belt, or whatever it was a few years back saying you'd be added, but still funny none the less

At least MSU has the balls to play NDSU in men's bball. :D xlolx

[MSUDuo]

At least MSU has the balls to play NDSU in men's bball. :D xlolx

We all need cupcakes

[MSUDuo]

I get quite a chuckle out of them as well.

Not as much as MSU having a sealed envelop on your ADs desk from CUSA, or the Sun Belt, or whatever it was a few years back saying you'd be added, but still funny none the less

Yeah, that was pretty funny xlolxxlolxxlolx

[BisonFan02]

We all need cupcakes

Is that why you guys are kept around in the MVC? Kinda like football? :D

[MSUDuo]

Is that why you guys are kept around in the MVC? Kinda like football? :D

Beat up on ya'll enough to help the Rabbits beat ya the next week xhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayx

[taper]

Beat up on ya'll enough to help the Rabbits beat ya the next week xhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayx

So you're happy being the mook used to soften us up for the meaningful boss fight?

[MSUDuo]

So you're happy being the mook used to soften us up for the meaningful boss fight?
Hey, it was 56-0 at half last year. Only 13-3 this year. Hopefully won't be the Mook much longer. Lol

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[SDFS]

As others have stated, something has changed with the MVFC. Because UND has NO leverage to drive this agenda. The MVFC and the school presidents are driving this.. Not sure about all hate toward UND. UND will say yes if offered. But, that offered is based on MVFC needs.

Possible movement caused by?
1) Schools with $$ problems (ISU or WIU)
2) YSU looking to move? CAA or FBS?
3) MSU or UNI looking toward FBS to follow - WSU?
4) WSU starting FCS football?
5) UNO starting football?
6) NMSU - looking to join MVC? Need a home for football?
7) IUPUI/UIPU-FW - closing up shop or moving to another conference Summit League needs help?

[dakotadude]

I hope NDSU blocks it. Maybe we can get YSU or Missouri State to help not make this happen.
Why block it? we .are. still.a couple games down over the last hundred years lets get caught up the then make the decision. My dad, Denny Driscoll, ragged me for years about playing the "Ag school" he was a running back for und during the years we dont like to remember. Bring em in and show em a program. worst case a ND school comes out ahead.

[REALBird]

What is the advantage of two divisions vs one as respects to FCS playoffs? I understand potential reduction in travel costs

That's basically it...reduce travel costs. Natural travel partners, reduction and number of trips East and West.

So for example Illinois State plays all division rivals: UNI, YSU, ISUb, SIU, WIU. Then only goes to the Dakota's once (@NDSU, vs. USD) the game vs one of the other travel partners (MSU or WSU)

Conversely a Western school for example NDSU plays division rivals: SDSU, USD, UND, MSU, WSU. Only goes to the Far East once (@YSU, vs. ISUb) the other vs. (UNI or WIU).

It keeps the Illinois schools from crabbing about travel, reduces everyone's overall travel budget. Tosses WSU a bone for their FB program. Tosses UND a bone for their FB program.

Granted I was just bored and thinking out loud. Everyone keeps saying someone has to leaving, I'm going out on a limb and saying maybe we're adding a school. I don't know anything more than the rest of us. LOL

[PantherRob82]

Why block it? we .are. still.a couple games down over the last hundred years lets get caught up the then make the decision. My dad, Denny Driscoll, ragged me for years about playing the "Ag school" he was a running back for und during the years we dont like to remember. Bring em in and show em a program. worst case a ND school comes out ahead.

Thank you for making a rational first post. We don't get those much anymore. :D

[jacksfan29]

As others have stated, something has changed with the MVFC. Because UND has NO leverage to drive this agenda. The MVFC and the school presidents are driving this.. Not sure about all hate toward UND. UND will say yes if offered. But, that offered is based on MVFC needs.

Possible movement caused by?
1) Schools with $$ problems (ISU or WIU) - NO
2) YSU looking to move? CAA or FBS? - CAA POSSIBLE, FBS NO
3) MSU or UNI looking toward FBS to follow - WSU? = NO
4) WSU starting FCS football? - POSSIBLE
5) UNO starting football? - NO
6) NMSU - looking to join MVC? Need a home for football? - DOUBTFUL, MOST MVC SCHOOLS ARE CHEAP AND TRAVEL TO NMSU WOULD COST, MORE LIKELY TO BE SUMMIT
7) IUPUI/UIPU-FW - closing up shop or moving to another conference Summit League needs help? NO, you may want to research who IUPUI is. Hint, they rank academically on par with UND with twice the students. IPFW came into the league around the same time as SDSU and NDSU. They have actually been pretty successful in Men's BB. The Summit is stable. UND fans get hung up on it not being stable, it is and the basketball is played at a much higher level than you have seen nightly in the Big Sky. Your Men's program will need to up its game or risk not making the tournament. Your Women, today would be at 5 or 6 in the league.

[BisonBacker]

As others have stated, something has changed with the MVFC. Because UND has NO leverage to drive this agenda. The MVFC and the school presidents are driving this.. Not sure about all hate toward UND. UND will say yes if offered. But, that offered is based on MVFC needs.

Possible movement caused by?
1) Schools with $$ problems (ISU or WIU) Possible
2) YSU looking to move? CAA or FBS? CAA a possibility. FBS doubtful.
3) MSU or UNI looking toward FBS to follow - WSU? UNI doesn't have the funding and no way in hell will the two State Schools allow any to be diverted.
4) WSU starting FCS football? They have already said they want nothing to do with FCS.
5) UNO starting football?Nope already a dead issue.
6) NMSU - looking to join MVC? Need a home for football? They want MWC not MVC affiliation
7) IUPUI/UIPU-FW - closing up shop or moving to another conference Summit League needs help? What conference wants them? Don't see this happening.

My comments in bolded red.

[F'N Hawks]

NO, you may want to research who IUPUI is. Hint, they rank academically on par with UND with twice the students. IPFW came into the league around the same time as SDSU and NDSU. They have actually been pretty successful in Men's BB. The Summit is stable. UND fans get hung up on it not being stable, it is and the basketball is played at a much higher level than you have seen nightly in the Big Sky. Your Men's program will need to up its game or risk not making the tournament. Your Women, today would be at 5 or 6 in the league.


Instead of wasting your time you should just read what has already been clarified. The Summit wants a 10th team extremely bad for BB travel partners and even scheduling. To get UND as that 10th team is even better instead of getting a UMKC or something like that. It has nothing to do with stability for the big sports. The Summit does have Swimming/Diving and Tennis, whch has never been brought up for some reason, this will add another program providing stability.

Your comments about the UND basketball programs show your internal issues.

[Thumper 76]

The NMSU thing is interesting since I think the Summit was trying to get them. If they have come to the conclusion that a FBS conference isn't going to take them something could be happening there. I doubt a team that got kicked out of the Sunbelt has much of a shot at a better conference like the MWC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Yote 53]

Maybe the package deal is UND by 2018/19 - Wichita State by 2019/2020. Split into East/West Divisions

West = NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, MSU, WSU
East = UNI, ISUr, WIU, ISUb, SIU, YSU

Nobody leaves, Patti V just tries to make everyone happy.

I would go for this. It would end up being two autobids (maybe not in writing but in practice) for the MVFC as the winner of the East and the winner of the West are pretty much assured playoff spots.

[Yote84]

UND has plenty to bring to the SL and MVFC.
They have made a commitment to building really good facilities which rival the top teams in the SL and MVFC. FCOA etc.

To the SDSU fans belittling UND as having no value because of their RPI in BB or the "easy" BSC. SDSU made the playoffs in football 4 or 5 times in the 120 years they were in DII. If the MVFC said the same thing about you 10 years ago you would not have built the successful program you have today.

UNI fans belittling the SL. The SL had a higher league RPI than the mighty MVC last year. When WSU leaves the SL will probably be ranked higher than the MVC in men's BB every year. The growth of the SL over the past 10 years since the tournament was moved to Sioux Falls is amazing. In another 10 it will probably be the new perennial MVC that existed 10 and 15 years ago before all the good teams left it.

If the MVC is so amazing than why is WSU and UNI looking for other options?

I know there is a lot of bad blood between NDSU, USD, SDSU, and UND but sitting here and working against each other because of that bad blood is simply moronic.

UND in the SL will help grow the that league to where we all secretly want it to be. Who knows in 5 years we may even be having a conversation about the need for a SL football conference because of a MVFC implosion.

[ccd494]

Why would the CAA take Youngstown State?

[clenz]

If you truly think the top 6 in the Summit would take out the tip 6 in the valley on a regular basis you're nuts

Rpi numbers are fun but easy to manipulate both directions. How many times has the Summit been a multibid league? How many top 25 teams have you had?

[clenz]

Why would the CAA take Youngstown State?

They wouldn't. I challenged anyone to find YSU to the CAA discussions that don't involve me stirring the pot.

Good luck.

[centennial]

If you truly think the top 6 in the Summit would take out the tip 6 in the valley on a regular basis you're nuts

Rpi numbers are fun but easy to manipulate both directions. How many times has the Summit been a multibid league? How many top 25 teams have you had?

I agree. The summit is deeper but the MVC has a better top. Give it time, if WSU leaves I don't see a difference.

We should take the top 5-6 in both leagues and make a new conference. Leave the others to go to a low major conference where they belong.

[clenz]

I agree. The summit is deeper but the MVC has a better top. Give it time, if WSU leaves I don't see a difference.

We should take the top 5-6 in both leagues and make a new conference. Leave the others to go to a low major conference where they belong.
I have confidence Bradley will figure their **** out. That leaves Drake, Evansville and Loyola as the programs that don't seem to get it.

You won't find one person happy about the Loyola add. The right move, all along, would have been Belmont but it never made it through.

Denver also wouldn't have been a bad choice had they been willing to, you know, play at least half of the MVC sports.

[dbackjon]

How much more does Evansville need to do? 3 of last four seasons 20+ wins. 49 wins last two seasons. CIT Champs

[Yote84]

The problem Clenz is you are comparing the MVC at its peak power and not where it is now or going to be in another 5 years when WSU leaves.

[PantherRob82]

The problem Clenz is you are comparing the MVC at its peak power and not where it is now or going to be in another 5 years when WSU leaves.

We had two bids just last season. How is that in the past?

[superman7515]

They wouldn't. I challenged anyone to find YSU to the CAA discussions that don't involve me stirring the pot.

Good luck.

From random fans of other teams on here?
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?70069-Youngstown-State-to-an-eastern-league

Or from their own fans?
http://ysupenguins.com/forum/index.php/topic,6286.msg54833.html#msg54833

[clenz]

How much more does Evansville need to do? 3 of last four seasons 20+ wins. 49 wins last two seasons. CIT Champs
No NCAA appearances since 1999
This past year had a team with two of the best players in school history - no NCAA trips. Hell, they had 25 wins this year and couldn't get a damn NIT invite. That tells you all you need to know about their SOS and resume. Only three times have they finished over 500 in conference play in the last decade.

Their OOC makes SHSU's football SOS looks hard.
Last year, for their OOC, they played RPIs of
342
251
264
169
330
221
331

The year before they played teams with RPI ranks of
230
183
177
263
258
232
257
311

Year before?
323
192
145
160
299
15
357
175

Sure, 20 wins. It's all from playing low majors in the OOC to rack up wins.


If they can actually sustain something

[clenz]

The problem Clenz is you are comparing the MVC at its peak power and not where it is now or going to be in another 5 years when WSU leaves.
2 bids last season. Both WSU and UNI were top 25/getting votes last season. 5 teams in the top 138 in RPI (4 in the top 113). The Summit had 2 in the top 125

Year before? Summit RPIs were 90, 99 and then 163 212 215 231 258 300 328 and the SOS those teams played? 276 252 196 250 254 152 180 339 232. That means The Summit had 1 team play a top third schedule.

For reference, as much **** as I give Evansville for how poor their schedules are they are almost always in the 140-180 range.

The RPI ratings for the Valley that same year - 14, 17, 62, 120, 123, 190 248 269 278 288. Yeah, the bottom of the league is dog ****. However, let's look at the SOS the Valley faced vs the Summit 115 98 72 134 131 139 112 100 215 127.

Noticing a trend yet?

Turns out, it's not so recent history to see the Valley is still a better league. Yes, our bottom end is **** in terms of RPI. However, looking at the SOS it's not even close. Valley schools rarely play 160 or worse schedule. That hurts the record of the bottom, and in turn hurts the RPI.

[jacksfan29]

Instead of wasting your time you should just read what has already been clarified. The Summit wants a 10th team extremely bad for BB travel partners and even scheduling. To get UND as that 10th team is even better instead of getting a UMKC or something like that. It has nothing to do with stability for the big sports. The Summit does have Swimming/Diving and Tennis, whch has never been brought up for some reason, this will add another program providing stability.

Your comments about the UND basketball programs show your internal issues.

What internal issues? UND would be playing in the bottom half of the conference this year and this looks to be one of your better teams. Your Men's BB program isn't much to write home about.

[clenz]

What internal issues? UND would be playing in the bottom half of the conference this year and this looks to be one of your better teams. Your Men's BB program isn't much to write home about.
Go look what UNI has done to them the last 7 years or so

[F'N Hawks]

Go look what UNI has done to them the last 7 years or so

#buttunibb

They aren't playing in the Summit. UND has no problem playing with NDSU and SDSU.

[centennial]

I have confidence Bradley will figure their **** out. That leaves Drake, Evansville and Loyola as the programs that don't seem to get it.

You won't find one person happy about the Loyola add. The right move, all along, would have been Belmont but it never made it through.

Denver also wouldn't have been a bad choice had they been willing to, you know, play at least half of the MVC sports.

A co-worker at an old job has some contacts at DU. They think they are too good for the Summit. And they should win the men's bb every year. Lol.

[clenz]

#buttunibb

They aren't playing in the Summit. UND has no problem playing with NDSU and SDSU.
But....The Summit is a better conference, remember? UNI is was a lowly 5th place team in the MVC last season.

[F'N Hawks]

But....The Summit is a better conference, remember? UNI is was a lowly 5th place team in the MVC last season.

Did I say that?

[clenz]

A co-worker at an old job has some contacts at DU. They think they are too good for the Summit. And they should win the men's bb every year. Lol.
If their AD structure wasn't focused on hockey, lacrosse and skiing they absolutely *should* be real damn good.

The MVC wanted them. They have egos (I have high school mates that went to DU) and it seems like a very egotistical place. The MVC also said that without softball, volleyball, and...you know...the core MVC sports they weren't even getting a vote.

They decided, at that point, The Summit was better because The Summit would let them be with all of the other sports.

[Yote 53]

If their AD structure wasn't focused on hockey, lacrosse and skiing they absolutely *should* be real damn good.

The MVC wanted them. They have egos (I have high school mates that went to DU) and it seems like a very egotistical place. The MVC also said that without softball, volleyball, and...you know...the core MVC sports they weren't even getting a vote.

They decided, at that point, The Summit was better because The Summit would let them be with all of the other sports.

Yes, yes , and yes. All true. The MVC wanted Denver. Denver has egos, too good for the Summit, yet Denver can't win the Summit. Doesn't that tell you something?

The Summit is not the MVC, I don't see the Summit people saying that, what I see is that we are saying the Summit is on an upward trajectory whereas the MVC is flat or trending down from where it was. Long term view, the Summit has a decent chance of running down the MVC and becoming its equal in the pecking order.

[Bisonator]

Let's get this back on track. I don't see where too many people are against UND being added to the Summit. Just makes sense to most.

The problem is clearly the MVFC. I think their administration should really be pushing the BSC to keep them as a FB affiliate and cut some fat by letting them move their other sports to the Summit. Makes a lot of sense to me to cut travel expenses. Not sure why the BSC would be against such a move.

[GABison]

Yes, yes , and yes. All true. The MVC wanted Denver. Denver has egos, too good for the Summit, yet Denver can't win the Summit. Doesn't that tell you something?

The Summit is not the MVC, I don't see the Summit people saying that, what I see is that we are saying the Summit is on an upward trajectory whereas the MVC is flat or trending down from where it was. Long term view, the Summit has a decent chance of running down the MVC and becoming its equal in the pecking order.

Well said!!!

[clenz]

Let's get this back on track. I don't see where too many people are against UND being added to the Summit. Just makes sense to most.

The problem is clearly the MVFC. I think their administration should really be pushing the BSC to keep them as a FB affiliate and cut some fat by letting them move their other sports to the Summit. Makes a lot of sense to me to cut travel expenses. Not sure why the BSC would be against such a move.

This

IDGAF if they join the summit.

No to the MVFC.

[PantherRob82]

What internal issues? UND would be playing in the bottom half of the conference this year and this looks to be one of your better teams. Your Men's BB program isn't much to write home about.

I really hope this is just a bad attempt at trolling.

[REALBird]

Well said!!!

How is the MVC trending downward? WSU fresh off a final four run a few years ago, multiple bid league. Unless I'm missing something, has the Summit basketball conference reached that stature yet?

[clenz]

How is the MVC trending downward? WSU fresh off a final four run a few years ago, multiple bid league. Unless I'm missing something, has the Summit basketball conference reached that stature yet?
One year sample based on a conference RPI because Drake, Bradley, Loyola and Missouri State were historically bad last year and killed the conference RPI last year.

I'd expect Missouri State to be better this year in RPI. Probably about 150 in stead of 230. Drake will still probably be bad. Loyola will probably be better but still about 200. Bradley is the wild card. Roster was nearly 100% freshman last year with a new coach. With their donors they can turn it around real quick with the right coach.

But yeah, the MVC has been a multibid league more than it hasn't the last 13 or so years. It has CIT and CBI champions. Multiple teams winning NCAA games, making S16s, etc...

[nodak651]

Let's get this back on track. I don't see where too many people are against UND being added to the Summit. Just makes sense to most.

The problem is clearly the MVFC. I think their administration should really be pushing the BSC to keep them as a FB affiliate and cut some fat by letting them move their other sports to the Summit. Makes a lot of sense to me to cut travel expenses. Not sure why the BSC would be against such a move.

This is my vote. It's good for all involved. BSC and UND saves money, and UND will be a solid member for the Summit that has history with the Dakota schools and DU/UNO. Playing those schools would make the basketball season a lot more fun at UND. Big Sky football is good for UND, IMO. Would rather not move football conferences at this point in Bubba's tenure.

[OverratedGriz]

Of course MVFC wants UND, it would increase the conferences averages in endowments, school enrollments, academic profile, and attendance.

[Bisonoline]

I have a feeling the BSc would pay them to leave.

[Thumper 76]

Of course MVFC wants UND, it would increase the conferences averages in endowments, school enrollments, academic profile, and attendance.

Is that really as big of a deal in FCS though? Especially in the Midwest where there aren't that many FCS programs anyways? It's not like the MVFC is the Patriot League by any stretch.


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[F'N Hawks]

I have a feeling the BSc would pay them to leave.

UND would gladly take it.

[No_Skill]

Of course MVFC wants UND, it would increase the conferences averages in endowments, school enrollments, academic profile, and attendance.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-01/26/11/enhanced/webdr04/anigif_enhanced-8415-1422288592-29.gif

[IBleedYellow]

If a conference is willing to waive SB exit fee... That should tell you what they think of days school.

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[F'N Hawks]

If a conference is willing to waive SB exit fee... That should tell you what they think of days school.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

In this case, not really.

[Utgrizfan]

I think its only a matter of time before UND gets in, there wouldn't be talks taking place now without it. In regards to the money/travel issue why not just form 2 Divisions for the sole purpose to ease scheduling? Create an East and West Division and have them play each other every single season and a few teams from the other Division every year to help with travel costs.

[Thumper 76]

I think its only a matter of time before UND gets in, there wouldn't be talks taking place now without it. In regards to the money/travel issue why not just form 2 Divisions for the sole purpose to ease scheduling? Create an East and West Division and have them play each other every single season and a few teams from the other Division every year to help with travel costs.

Probably because it ****s the west schools as far as a competitive standpoint is concerned as well as autobid and seeds are concerned.


I have seen an interesting thought though. With how well SHSU is doing in the polls and the Big Sky talking about a 9 game conference schedule, what if the MVFC was planning on a 9 game schedule as well. Apparently the non conference doesn't matter to the committee, so why not? Then it's not really an extra cost to the eastern teams and it's not that different from what it is now.


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[abc123]

If a conference is willing to waive SB exit fee... That should tell you what they think of days school.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
It was stated when they joined that UND's exit fee would likely be waived if they left with proper notice, hence why the join dates in the text messages were important. If it was really "what they thought", you think they'd be fine with just an affiliate membership for football, which doesn't seem to be the case.

[Redbird007]

Of course MVFC wants UND, it would increase the conferences averages in endowments, school enrollments, academic profile, and attendance.

Provide the data to support. I think they will be an average size school from a public school perspective (private schools almost always smaller), maybe on endowments, i dont believe so on on academic profile and maybe on attendance. Overall they are more of a standard member.

[BisonFan02]

If a conference is willing to waive SB exit fee... That should tell you what they think of days school.

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That exit fee for the BSC is probably like paying for cups of ranch or something.

[nodak651]

New thought. After reading NDSU fan's comments, maybe the eastern MVFC would accept UND because they think it will hurt NDSU?

[centennial]

New thought. After reading NDSU fan's comments, maybe the eastern MVFC would accept UND because they think it will hurt NDSU?

Do you read what you post? The schools will spend more money to travel. And they will let UND into the conference because it might hurt NDSU. The same NDSU that is recruiting at a G5 level?

[nodak651]

Do you read what you post? The schools will spend more money to travel. And they will let UND into the conference because it might hurt NDSU. The same NDSU that is recruiting at a G5 level?

NDSU posters seem to think that it will hurt NDSU recruiting, because UND would "become relevant" by joining the MVFC. NDSU posters are saying all over the place that UND being in the same conference as NDSU hurts NDSU. With that rational, why wouldn't non NDSU schools want to add UND if it would make NDSU worse, while at same time making them relatively more competitive? Or are NDSU posters just full ****?

I'm not saying that's true or not, just playing devils advocate, as nobody seems to comprehend why MVFC schools would want UND to join the conference. I sure hope travel to one more Dakota school (once every other year) isn't going to break the bank for any MVFC school...

[centennial]

NDSU posters seem to think that it will hurt NDSU recruiting, because UND would "become relevant" by joining the MVFC. NDSU posters are saying all over the place that UND being in the same conference as NDSU hurts NDSU. With that rational, why wouldn't non NDSU schools want to add UND if it would make NDSU worse, while at same time making them relatively more competitive? Or are NDSU posters just full ****?

I'm not saying that's true or not, just playing devils advocate, as nobody seems to comprehend why MVFC schools would want UND to join the conference. I sure hope travel to one more Dakota school (once every other year) isn't going to break the bank for any MVFC school...

IMO you will have to deal with increased competition. That same USD you beat is barely average in the MVFC. Most years it will be a struggle to make the playoffs. We don't have bad teams.

Will the recruiting stay the same with only 2 wins in the valley? Even if you are successful you will be stealing more from the SD schools, UNI than NDSU. Of course if we start sucking we will lose recruits to everyone including UND. Some kids that want to play in front of their friends, and family will give you more time.

The talk is about moving to a stronger football league, and a much stronger basketball league. Will fans show interest while you get better? Is getting better to win these leagues even realistic? Of course losing to UND will hurt NDSU. Especially the fans that we have "stolen" from UND. The one that bandwagon with NDSU because of our football, and basketball success.

As I see it there are advantages- being able to take a few recruits away, changing the narrative in ND about NDSU.
Disadvantage- Gambling that fans will stick around while UND deals with a more competitive league in both football and basketball. Losing more fan interest if NDSU dominates UND.

[nodak651]

IMO you will have to deal with increased competition. That same USD you beat is barely average in the MVFC. Most years it will be a struggle to make the playoffs. We don't have bad teams.

Will the recruiting stay the same with only 2 wins in the valley? Even if you are successful you will be stealing more from the SD schools, UNI than NDSU. Of course if we start sucking we will lose recruits to everyone including UND. Some kids that want to play in front of their friends, and family will give you more time.

The talk is about moving to a stronger football league, and a much stronger basketball league. Will fans show interest while you get better? Is getting better to win these leagues even realistic? Of course losing to UND will hurt NDSU. Especially the fans that we have "stolen" from UND. The one that bandwagon with NDSU because of our football, and basketball success.

As I see it there are advantages- being able to take a few recruits away, changing the narrative in ND about NDSU.
Disadvantage- Gambling that fans will stick around while UND deals with a more competitive league in both football and basketball. Losing more fan interest if NDSU dominates UND.

That's fair. And exactly why I prefer the Big Sky FB / Summit combination. Although it is probably unlikely?

I don't think UND basketball can increase support unless we start playing more regional teams, regardless of winning % (DU could also draw some hockey fans). I'd take the gamble in basketball, and I think they would be decently competitive with the current team that they have, especially with a new coach after this year xprayx

[abc123]

IMO you will have to deal with increased competition. That same USD you beat is barely average in the MVFC. Most years it will be a struggle to make the playoffs. We don't have bad teams.

Will the recruiting stay the same with only 2 wins in the valley? Even if you are successful you will be stealing more from the SD schools, UNI than NDSU. Of course if we start sucking we will lose recruits to everyone including UND. Some kids that want to play in front of their friends, and family will give you more time.

Weird how USD was deemed terrible until winning a game in the Fargodome last year. I'm curious how you think UND would only get 2 wins. I feel pretty comfortable they would at minimum be where USD is this year and probably with one or two more wins because I think UND has a better run defense than USD and would have knocked off YSU and/or WIU, but of course that is just my opinion.



The talk is about moving to a stronger football league, and a much stronger basketball league. Will fans show interest while you get better? Is getting better to win these leagues even realistic? Of course losing to UND will hurt NDSU. Especially the fans that we have "stolen" from UND. The one that bandwagon with NDSU because of our football, and basketball success.

Both are one bid leagues in basketball however one has fewer conference games making it easier to help pump up their RPI. UND has done fine against Summit teams in the past, I would expect them to continue to do so in the future and that is despite having a head coach that is below average and on a very short leash.

[NDB]

Well UND was certainly terrible last year only have ZERO yards of offense in the first half against a team that lost to USD.

[centennial]

Weird how USD was deemed terrible until winning a game in the Fargodome last year. I'm curious how you think UND would only get 2 wins. I feel pretty comfortable they would at minimum be where USD is this year and probably with one or two more wins because I think UND has a better run defense than USD and would have knocked off YSU and/or WIU, but of course that is just my opinion.


Both are one bid leagues in basketball however one has fewer conference games making it easier to help pump up their RPI. UND has done fine against Summit teams in the past, I would expect them to continue to do so in the future and that is despite having a head coach that is below average and on a very short leash.

It's a hypothetical situation. Playing a one off MVFC team is different from playing the whole slate. Realistically, I don't see UND significantly better than 2-3 teams in the MVFC this year. And beating NDSU makes you a good team? I would think winning the NC, or some games in the playoffs would do that.

Basketball, I completely disagree with you the Summit is a much better league. Just because you have won a couple of games doesn't make the difference in level insignificant. Why do we even have computer ratings?

You are underestimating both the Summit and the MVFC. It's a increase in competitiveness. It's not like you are dominating the Big Sky.

[F'N Hawks]

It's a hypothetical situation. Playing a one off MVFC team is different from playing the whole slate. Realistically, I don't see UND significantly better than 2-3 teams in the MVFC this year. And beating NDSU makes you a good team? I would think winning the NC, or some games in the playoffs would do that.

Basketball, I completely disagree with you the Summit is a much better league. Just because you have won a couple of games doesn't make the difference in level insignificant. Why do we even have computer ratings?

You are underestimating both the Summit and the MVFC. It's a increase in competitiveness. It's not like you are dominating the Big Sky.

If you repeat the same things enough times there is zero doubt in my mind you will believe them. Others might, too. Reps are the key.

[centennial]

If you repeat the same things enough times there is zero doubt in my mind you will believe them. Others might, too. Reps are the key.

Attack people instead of the ideas. That UND education is really serving you well.

[F'N Hawks]

Attack people instead of the ideas. That UND education is really serving you well.

Just a guess but you could more than likely go back 20-30 pages and find answers to all these "ideas" that you are educating us on repeatedly.

I also read somewhere on here that NDSU had a tougher schedule than Sam Houston State. Where was that one guy who wrote that again.....

[70MilesFromCanada]

Your school is ****ing embarrassing. It's been a massive cluster**** since 2003 and your candy asses couldn't beat the flood of '97 like NDSU did.

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As one of many who got flooded, your comment is beyond offensive. It belongs up your a** where it came from. It really is true that Bison IQ = Idiot Quotient.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This thread is pure gold!!

UND will be a good addition if it happens.

[geaux_sioux]

It's a hypothetical situation. Playing a one off MVFC team is different from playing the whole slate. Realistically, I don't see UND significantly better than 2-3 teams in the MVFC this year. And beating NDSU makes you a good team? I would think winning the NC, or some games in the playoffs would do that.

Basketball, I completely disagree with you the Summit is a much better league. Just because you have won a couple of games doesn't make the difference in level insignificant. Why do we even have computer ratings?

You are underestimating both the Summit and the MVFC. It's a increase in competitiveness. It's not like you are dominating the Big Sky.
Big Sky football is way deeper than MVFC is this year.

[Mayville Bison]

NDSU posters seem to think that it will hurt NDSU recruiting, because UND would "become relevant" by joining the MVFC. NDSU posters are saying all over the place that UND being in the same conference as NDSU hurts NDSU. With that rational, why wouldn't non NDSU schools want to add UND if it would make NDSU worse, while at same time making them relatively more competitive? Or are NDSU posters just full ****?

I'm not saying that's true or not, just playing devils advocate, as nobody seems to comprehend why MVFC schools would want UND to join the conference. I sure hope travel to one more Dakota school (once every other year) isn't going to break the bank for any MVFC school...

Please explain to us why Indiana State would want UND to join their football conference? After you do that, please do the same for Youngstown St, Illinois St, Missouri St, Northern Iowa, and Southern Illinois.

I don't know how many votes UND would need in order to be invited, but I would assume more than half. Let's say you have the Dakota's 3 votes and Western Illinois to "stabilize the Summit". Where and how are you going to get the two (possibly more if you need 3/4 support) additional votes?

[centennial]

Big Sky football is way deeper than MVFC is this year.

Well okay then.

[F'N Hawks]

Big Sky football is way deeper than MVFC is this year.

xpopcornx

[nodak651]

Please explain to us why Indiana State would want UND to join their football conference? After you do that, please do the same for Youngstown St, Illinois St, Missouri St, Northern Iowa, and Southern Illinois.

I don't know how many votes UND would need in order to be invited, but I would assume more than half. Let's say you have the Dakota's 3 votes and Western Illinois to "stabilize the Summit". Where and how are you going to get the two (possibly more if you need 3/4 support) additional votes?

Read the first paragraph. And it doesn't really matter as it looks like UND is headed to the MVFC regardless of what you think.

[Bisonoline]

That's some funny stuffxdrunkyx

[UNDColorado]

That exit fee for the BSC is probably like paying for cups of ranch or something.

Haha this is funny, well played!