Furman...What is going on?

[Milktruck74]

There were about 3 different threads that all veered towards a Paladin convo...so here is an attempt to bring it all to one spot.

Here were a few of the comments/questions...so have atit.

Should Bruce Fowler be gone now? given to the end of the season?

What is the biggest problem facing the Paladins?

Is this the end of Furman football as we know it?

The entire Paladin Athletic program is going great, why not football?

Add others I missed.

[OL FU]

Citdog called to add Furman sucks xcoolx

[Milktruck74]

Citdog called to add Furman sucks xcoolx

Well, that goes with out saying....and at this point nobody is arguing against him.

[OL FU]

That's ok if history repeats itself he will be more interested in politics again by 2018

[Milktruck74]

Prolly accurate. Haven't seen him around lately. It's odd!!! Anyway, What's your take OL? We all know the OL traded the glory for good looks and INTELLECTUAL SUPERIORITY, so in your most worthy opinion, what is going on at FU?

[melloware13]

I know I was high on the Paladins after their showing in East Lansing, but Michigan State is also showing they are less than expected. Was there a string of injuries in the first few games that caused this drop?

[PaladinFan]

I know I was high on the Paladins after their showing in East Lansing, but Michigan State is also showing they are less than expected. Was there a string of injuries in the first few games that caused this drop?

Well, the team has had a bunch of injuries. KSU ran for a bundle against our defense that was down three starting linebackers (including our top two tacklers), RT, QB, and three RBs.

Not an excuse, though. Injuries are part of every team.

[Milktruck74]

Explanations are not excuses....big difference.

[ASU33]

Well, the team has had a bunch of injuries. KSU ran for a bundle against our defense that was down three starting linebackers (including our top two tacklers), RT, QB, and three RBs.

Not an excuse, though. Injuries are part of every team.

Ouch! You guys sound like us. We're down to a 3rd string QB, and our online has been so patch worked that two of the now starters weren't even on the preseason roster.

[Ivytalk]

My theory is that, in line with many universities these days, Furman students and faculty are deconstructing the football program in line with their new Masculinity Studies offerings.xrotatehx

[OL FU]

Prolly accurate. Haven't seen him around lately. It's odd!!! Anyway, What's your take OL? We all know the OL traded the glory for good looks and INTELLECTUAL SUPERIORITY, so in your most worthy opinion, what is going on at FU?

Good question. I don't disagree with PaladinFan that we do have some talent. I would say that our talent as whole is not up to where it used to be, not speaking of individuals but in general. I do think the OL is an issue (interestingly enough in the good days, the OL was probably our strongest feature). Not sure if the OL issue is talent, training or coaching, but our running backs don't seem to have holes to run through and our QBs don't have time to pass, until the game is out of hand. Injuries have been a factor, but after 2014 I am tired of saying that.

Strangely enough, I think most people would have pick us at 1-4 at this point and we are 0-5. So we aren't far off the performance expectations of the majority of people. Sadly though, that says a lot. Yes, we had a brutal 4 games. But in the past, playing an FBS and 3 top 20 twenty teams would have been ok, because we would have been a top 20 or top 10 team. And that really says it all, we haven't been that kinda team since 2006 (probably a better year would be 2005 since 2006 was not the SoCon's strongest with the exception of ASU). So I think part of it is we don't have the personnel we once did. Secondly, and I am not usually one to jump on the coaches, but...... in five complete years we have had two 3 win seasons and one 4 win season. Our best record (not counting the playoffs) was 7-5 which included a 2-4 start.

So either there are deep structural problems in the football program with resources or strategic vision, or we just can't compete for the right players in a much more competitive environment or we simply haven't had the right coaching staff.

[OL FU]

The other problem with all this is unless the ship is righted quickly, it becomes something of a self fulfilling prophecy. Attendance used to average 12K-13K which is pretty damn impressive for a school of 2600 sitting in Clemson's back yard and around the corner from USC. IF we get 4 to 5K now I would be shocked. There are some on the Furman message board talking about a southern division of the Patriot League. I haven't read much about it but they seem to look at it as a cost savings affair, so I am guessing they may be confusing the Patriot league with the PFL (since the Patriot League now offers athletic scholarships).

My guess is that barring contractual obligations, a change will be made. The new AD seems pretty decisive and I am guessing this type of year is not going to be considered acceptable. Now if contracts extend beyond this year, that may be a different situation.

[PaladinFan]

The other problem with all this is unless the ship is righted quickly, it becomes something of a self fulfilling prophecy. Attendance used to average 12K-13K which is pretty damn impressive for a school of 2600 sitting in Clemson's back yard and around the corner from USC. IF we get 4 to 5K now I would be shocked. There are some on the Furman message board talking about a southern division of the Patriot League. I haven't read much about it but they seem to look at it as a cost savings affair, so I am guessing they may be confusing the Patriot league with the PFL (since the Patriot League now offers athletic scholarships).

My guess is that barring contractual obligations, a change will be made. The new AD seems pretty decisive and I am guessing this type of year is not going to be considered acceptable. Now if contracts extend beyond this year, that may be a different situation.

I said before the game that the Kennesaw game was huge for Fowler's staff. Coming off an ugly loss to Coastal, back home, against a team you should beat, was a great opportunity to instill some confidence going forward.

That obviously didn't happen. At 0-5, now, it is hard to see Furman winning out. Without winning out, I'm not sure how Fowler retains his job. Even if he does win out, I'm not sure how the AD would avoid pitchforks and angry mobs.

[CID1990]

Good question. I don't disagree with PaladinFan that we do have some talent. I would say that our talent as whole is not up to where it used to be, not speaking of individuals but in general. I do think the OL is an issue (interestingly enough in the good days, the OL was probably our strongest feature). Not sure if the OL issue is talent, training or coaching, but our running backs don't seem to have holes to run through and our QBs don't have time to pass, until the game is out of hand. Injuries have been a factor, but after 2014 I am tired of saying that.

Strangely enough, I think most people would have pick us at 1-4 at this point and we are 0-5. So we aren't far off the performance expectations of the majority of people. Sadly though, that says a lot. Yes, we had a brutal 4 games. But in the past, playing an FBS and 3 top 20 twenty teams would have been ok, because we would have been a top 20 or top 10 team. And that really says it all, we haven't been that kinda team since 2006 (probably a better year would be 2005 since 2006 was not the SoCon's strongest with the exception of ASU). So I think part of it is we don't have the personnel we once did. Secondly, and I am not usually one to jump on the coaches, but...... in five complete years we have had two 3 win seasons and one 4 win season. Our best record (not counting the playoffs) was 7-5 which included a 2-4 start.

So either there are deep structural problems in the football program with resources or strategic vision, or we just can't compete for the right players in a much more competitive environment or we simply haven't had the right coaching staff.

That's a lot of typing OL FU

You could just say firmen sucks


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[SU DOG]

So who are we playing Saturday? The UTC game impressive Paladins or the first half KSU Furman? I've just got a feeling that it will lean more towards the UTC type.

[OL FU]

That's a lot of typing OL FU

You could just say firmen sucks


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Like I said, enjoy the good times. If history means anything you will be back on bottom in 2018:p

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So who are we playing Saturday? The UTC game impressive Paladins or the first half KSU Furman? I've just got a feeling that it will lean more towards the UTC type.

and therein lies the problem, who knows?

[Bucs2016]

Furman biggest problem is the emergence of other FCS programs within a 4 hour drive of them and how it's taken some great recruits away.

Top 25 programs in Charleston Southern and Coastal. Didn't exist 25 years ago. Gardner Webb and Wofford moved to Division 1. So did Presbyterian. The Citadel is back to prominence.

In Furman glory days, you had USC, Clemson and then Furman. That was basically the top 3 teams in this state. Citadel was ok. Only other D1 team was SC State. Now that's changed. Furman competes for SC/NC in-state FCS talent with Wofford, Citadel, PC, CSU, SCSU, Gardner Webb. UNC - Charlotte and Coastal are moving up to FBS but they still go after those top level FCS/lower level FBS caliber recruits that Furman would try to get.

Just more competitive. CSU and Coastal can offer great FCS players a chance to play D1....at the beach...in big time party towns....vs Furman offering it in suburban Greenville with strip malls.

[Milktruck74]

Furman biggest problem is the emergence of other FCS programs within a 4 hour drive of them and how it's taken some great recruits away.

Top 25 programs in Charleston Southern and Coastal. Didn't exist 25 years ago. Gardner Webb and Wofford moved to Division 1. So did Presbyterian. The Citadel is back to prominence.

In Furman glory days, you had USC, Clemson and then Furman. That was basically the top 3 teams in this state. Citadel was ok. Only other D1 team was SC State. Now that's changed. Furman competes for SC/NC in-state FCS talent with Wofford, Citadel, PC, CSU, SCSU, Gardner Webb. UNC - Charlotte and Coastal are moving up to FBS but they still go after those top level FCS/lower level FBS caliber recruits that Furman would try to get.

Just more competitive. CSU and Coastal can offer great FCS players a chance to play D1....at the beach...in big time party towns....vs Furman offering it in suburban Greenville with strip malls.

But this is the case for all teams. Look at the expansion of the football in general, the teams that have moved up from FCS to FBS, the D2 teams that have moved to FCS, teams are moving up. The talent is being watered down for everyone. I get your points about offerings of the school (party school at the beach), but look at the top 10 FCS schools in the poll....very few fit that bill. Hell, one of them is a military school with girls that look like Shannon Faulkner. Ha. So, I say this....to say recruiting is only part of the issue.

[Catamount87]

Over the last three or so seasons it seems that the injury bug has bitten Furman well beyond what it does to other teams. That always seems to go hand-in-hand with programs that don't have a good, solid strength and conditioning program. Does anyone know what the stability has been like with the Furman S&C program?

As for Furman's average attendance (under Fowler) here's what I found:

Year - Attendance - Record
2011 - 11,064 (6-5)
2012 - 9,009 (3-8)
2013 - 8,299 (8-6)
2014 - 7,800 (3-8)
2015 - 6,795 (4-7)
2016 - 6,159 (0-5) (just 2 games so far)

[OL FU]

Over the last three or so seasons it seems that the injury bug has bitten Furman well beyond what it does to other teams. That always seems to go hand-in-hand with programs that don't have a good, solid strength and conditioning program. Does anyone know what the stability has been like with the Furman S&C program?

As for Furman's average attendance (under Fowler) here's what I found:

Year - Attendance - Record
2011 - 11,064 (6-5)
2012 - 9,009 (3-8)
2013 - 8,299 (8-6)
2014 - 7,800 (3-8)
2015 - 6,795 (4-7)
2016 - 6,159 (0-5) (just 2 games so far)

IF you take the average attendance back farther I am almost certain that we were around 13K. Found an article that said we were at 13,900 in 2004 for the first three games and that was before the GSU game which was packed out. Of course 2004 was a very good year.

The potential conditioning problem has been mentioned on the Furman board. Personally, I have no idea.

[Catamount87]

I know I've seen stats going back a couple of decades and yes, Furman did average close to capacity for years 14-16K.

Unfortunately the statistics on the SoCon site only go back to 2009. Here are the other two years from SoCon Sports.

2010 - 10,594 (5-6)
2009 - 10,960 (6-5)

[OL FU]

But this is the case for all teams. Look at the expansion of the football in general, the teams that have moved up from FCS to FBS, the D2 teams that have moved to FCS, teams are moving up. The talent is being watered down for everyone. I get your points about offerings of the school (party school at the beach), but look at the top 10 FCS schools in the poll....very few fit that bill. Hell, one of them is a military school with girls that look like Shannon Faulkner. Ha. So, I say this....to say recruiting is only part of the issue.

I agree. I do think the addition of different schools has made it more competitive. I also agree that location suits CSU and CCU. I would also think that academics could, with some recruits, play in Furman's favor and with others could work to our disadvantage, but regardless, there are successful programs in this part of the world. So I don't think any of that is disqualifying Furman from success.

[CID1990]

Like I said, enjoy the good times. If history means anything you will be back on bottom in 2018:p

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and therein lies the problem, who knows?

You guys should hire back Mercers coach

He only seems to be able to beat El Cid in purple


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[OL FU]

You guys should hire back Mercers coach

He only seems to be able to beat El Cid in purple


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WE could do that or we can just wait to 2018:)

[PaladinNation]

An honest take…

#1 Furman is still digging itself out of the hole led by ex-football playing president David Shi.
Shi gave very little support to Furman football, made the last coaching years of Lamb a living hell.
Zero facilitiy upgrades during his reign.

#2 Admissions - Furman did and still might have some recruiting hurdles that our little brothers Citadel and Woffy don't have.
I believe Furman has to have a potential recruit cleared by admissions before an official visit. We've lost a few players over this.

#3 Stubborn loyalty to the coaching staff. Loss of Clay Hendrix. To a fault BL kept some coaches way to long, and lost his long time friend and teammate to Air Force, and so went our o-line pedigree. We are still to this day searching for that mojo.

#4 Over-recruiting at specific positions. Fowler inherited a mess. A boatload of quarterbacks and a ton of full scholarship lineman that never contributed. As well as zero defensive line depth.

#5 To much focus on playing "Furman Football." We've gone from the complex offense days of Lamb and the balance of Johnson, too boring. I feel like we don't adjust quick enough because we want to play punch you in the mouth old school Furman football. We don't have enough chip on the shoulder players at present.

#6 Player development has been hit and miss. I think we have gotten the players, some have developed but it's been far too inconsistent. The last two classes seem to show a different strategy of longer, taller athletic players. Too late for Fowler.

#7 Play Calling. Back to #5. We're pretty predictable until we get behind by three touchdowns then were dangerous.

[PaladinFan]

IF you take the average attendance back farther I am almost certain that we were around 13K. Found an article that said we were at 13,900 in 2004 for the first three games and that was before the GSU game which was packed out. Of course 2004 was a very good year.

The potential conditioning problem has been mentioned on the Furman board. Personally, I have no idea.

Just regular season home games in 2005 we averaged 12,206 http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2005-2006/2005_Football_Season_Stats.pdf

In 2004 we averaged 14,109. http://furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2004-2005/teamcume.htm

Really the only difference is that we played GSU at home in 2004 for homecoming. 17,145 in attendance. Perfect storm.

I tend to throw out the first round of the post season for most teams as attendance is crippled by Thanksgiving break.

[PaladinFan]

An honest take…

#1 Furman is still digging itself out of the hole led by ex-football playing president David Shi.
Shi gave very little support to Furman football, made the last coaching years of Lamb a living hell.
Zero facilitiy upgrades during his reign.

#2 Admissions - Furman did and still might have some recruiting hurdles that our little brothers Citadel and Woffy don't have.
I believe Furman has to have a potential recruit cleared by admissions before an official visit. We've lost a few players over this.

#3 Stubborn loyalty to the coaching staff. Loss of Clay Hendrix. To a fault BL kept some coaches way to long, and lost his long time friend and teammate to Air Force, and so went our o-line pedigree. We are still to this day searching for that mojo.

#4 Over-recruiting at specific positions. Fowler inherited a mess. A boatload of quarterbacks and a ton of full scholarship lineman that never contributed. As well as zero defensive line depth.

#5 To much focus on playing "Furman Football." We've gone from the complex offense days of Lamb and the balance of Johnson, too boring. I feel like we don't adjust quick enough because we want to play punch you in the mouth old school Furman football. We don't have enough chip on the shoulder players at present.

#6 Player development has been hit and miss. I think we have gotten the players, some have developed but it's been far too inconsistent. The last two classes seem to show a different strategy of longer, taller athletic players. Too late for Fowler.

#7 Play Calling. Back to #5. We're pretty predictable until we get behind by three touchdowns then were dangerous.

I would literally contribute money to the "bring back Clay Hendrix" fund. I have long thought we have a lot of personnel that would be perfect for Air Force's run heavy attack.

[Bucs2016]

But this is the case for all teams. Look at the expansion of the football in general, the teams that have moved up from FCS to FBS, the D2 teams that have moved to FCS, teams are moving up. The talent is being watered down for everyone. I get your points about offerings of the school (party school at the beach), but look at the top 10 FCS schools in the poll....very few fit that bill. Hell, one of them is a military school with girls that look like Shannon Faulkner. Ha. So, I say this....to say recruiting is only part of the issue.

Yes exactly my point. It's just more competitive these days. Furman can still be VERY good. It's just not gonna be as often because of more competition. Like everyone else.

30 years ago if there was a stud player in Columbia who didn't quite make USC or Clemsons cut...he basically would end up at Furman or The Citadel if he wanted to play D1, in-state. Maybe SC State. Now...he can add CSU, Coastal, Wofford, PC, UNC Charlotte, Gardner Webb into the choices he has within a 3 hour drive.

[CID1990]

WE could do that or we can just wait to 2018:)

Why is 2018 your magic number?


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[OL FU]

Why is 2018 your magic number?


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historically when the citadel has a good fball team it last three or four years . Then you get to wait another 15 years for the rebound

[citdog]

furman sucks

been saying it for a decade here

[CID1990]

historically when the citadel has a good fball team it last three or four years . Then you get to wait another 15 years for the rebound

We learned some valuable lessons over the past 30 years (like don't drop the option)

The way the recruiting landscape is looking I can see us dropping back to the middle of the pack in off years for sure- but that'd still be good for whopping you purple vomit stains


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[citdog]

historically when the citadel has a good fball team it last three or four years . Then you get to wait another 15 years for the rebound

Old times they ARE forgotten.....

not the same 'Dogs now!

[ElCid]

Old times they ARE forgotten.....

not the same 'Dogs now!

I do get the feeling that this is different somehow. Not sure I have felt this vibe about the program before. I think we may be able to sustain it for some time. Yeah like 1990 said, there may be an off year occasionally but I don't think we drop to the dregs like we have before.

[OL FU]

Well at this point it's all I got

[PaladinNation]

It will be interesting to see what direction Furman takes with the next coach and what that means offensively.

I'm not too worried about the defense… Furman has a lot of young players that should be a good foundation for the next couple of seasons.

When it comes to offense, who are we? We've tried to go pistol, but the last two games have shown with Hannon at the helm, we need to go hurry up, shotgun and spread it out… by the way, we have a player to build around for the next three years - Thomas Gordon.

I think Furman should learn from the Citadel and look at some option coaches… Houston was a great choice.
We go after Clay Hendrix (option spread) or Billy Napier (power and spread) give them the best package we can offer.
Ashley Ingram - Navy (running game coordinator) was a finalist for Citadel, would be an excellent choice.

[Milktruck74]

Where did Frankie DeBusk end up? I know the last few seasons at Tusculum were rough for him, but the guy is a good coach....and an Alum brings a level of passion and program buy in that doesn't necessarily come from other outsiders (Look at Russ H.). I know Frankie was a heck of a QB coach...As a HC, He took a team that had won 20 games in 9 years and made them a program that has some expectation of winning....so much so, that when he didn't he got fired, haha. A victim of his own success. He didn't blow the world away, but he averaged a winning season at a school without a tradition...So, Why not Frankie?

[BigSouthFan]

Would Furman offer Chadwell? Would Chadwell go to Furman or is he looking at SunBelt, Conference USA type deals? I remember he was in the final running for Georgia Southern. I just can't see him at Chuck South another year if they win the conference title again and win 1 or 2 playoff games.

[PaladinNation]

Would Furman offer Chadwell? Would Chadwell go to Furman or is he looking at SunBelt, Conference USA type deals? I remember he was in the final running for Georgia Southern. I just can't see him at Chuck South another year if they win the conference title again and win 1 or 2 playoff games.

Interesting thought… can Chadwell recruit under Furman's admissions policies? Maybe he would have academic support that he doesn't have at CSU.

Positives for Chadwell…
Greenville is booming. Downtown and the food scene rivals Charleston and Atlanta.
Bigger move up. If Chadwell stays at CSU his best option is a Sun Belt School. At Furman, it's an ACC or SEC school.
Furman's profile is broad, up and down the east coast. Opens up his recruiting footprint.
Facilities, he doesn't have to fundraise its built, best in class from the field to the locker room, to sports medicine, to the weight room.
Furman's campus, and the academics sell itself.
Tradition, it sucks at the moment but we have a national championship trophy.

[walliver]

Yes exactly my point. It's just more competitive these days. Furman can still be VERY good. It's just not gonna be as often because of more competition. Like everyone else.

30 years ago if there was a stud player in Columbia who didn't quite make USC or Clemsons cut...he basically would end up at Furman or The Citadel if he wanted to play D1, in-state. Maybe SC State. Now...he can add CSU, Coastal, Wofford, PC, UNC Charlotte, Gardner Webb into the choices he has within a 3 hour drive.

FU, like Wofford, recruits heavily in Georgia. I suspect Mercer and Kennesaw State are bigger competitors than CSU, PC and Gardner-Webb. And Furman's recruitment issues are less significant that the Citadel's knob treatment issues.

Interestingly, there is less recruiting overlap between FU and Wofford than most would expect, primarily related to differing offensive philosophies.


Would Furman offer Chadwell? Would Chadwell go to Furman or is he looking at SunBelt, Conference USA type deals? I remember he was in the final running for Georgia Southern. I just can't see him at Chuck South another year if they win the conference title again and win 1 or 2 playoff games.

Chadwell would likely be successful at FU, but I'm not sure he would present the type of public persona their administration would like. He's a little too country, and sometimes petty. On the other hand, he does hate The Citadel (but who doesn't).

[OL FU]

. On the other hand, he does hate The Citadel .

He's hired!

[PaladinFan]

It will be interesting to see what direction Furman takes with the next coach and what that means offensively.

I'm not too worried about the defense… Furman has a lot of young players that should be a good foundation for the next couple of seasons.

When it comes to offense, who are we? We've tried to go pistol, but the last two games have shown with Hannon at the helm, we need to go hurry up, shotgun and spread it out… by the way, we have a player to build around for the next three years - Thomas Gordon.

I think Furman should learn from the Citadel and look at some option coaches… Houston was a great choice.
We go after Clay Hendrix (option spread) or Billy Napier (power and spread) give them the best package we can offer.
Ashley Ingram - Navy (running game coordinator) was a finalist for Citadel, would be an excellent choice.

I'm on record as having advocated for Clay Hendrix for years. There is no more logical fit at Furman, in my opinion, especially considering he was rumored to be a finalist for the Citadel job (indicating a willingness to leave a pretty comfy situation in Colorado Springs).

Napier is always an interesting name thrown about. He's coached at two massive programs, and I would expect that Furman could never compete with what Alabama pays their assistant coaches.

[PaladinFan]

Where did Frankie DeBusk end up? I know the last few seasons at Tusculum were rough for him, but the guy is a good coach....and an Alum brings a level of passion and program buy in that doesn't necessarily come from other outsiders (Look at Russ H.). I know Frankie was a heck of a QB coach...As a HC, He took a team that had won 20 games in 9 years and made them a program that has some expectation of winning....so much so, that when he didn't he got fired, haha. A victim of his own success. He didn't blow the world away, but he averaged a winning season at a school without a tradition...So, Why not Frankie?

I think that is a delicate balance for Furman. Perhaps for the first time ever, Furman has a president and AD that are not Furman grads.

While I'm sure there is always interest in plucking from the Furman coaching tree (of which there are many options), you also cannot allow too much nepotism.

Much of the fans' ire right now is at Tim Sorrells, Furman's longtime OC/QB coach, who is the lone holdover from Bobby Lamb's staff. Furman's offense has been at the bottom of the league at least every year since 2013 and on a steady decline well before that. I would expect that at virtually any other program, the OC would have been gone long ago.

[OL FU]

I love the idea of hiring a Furman alum, but the downside is when it doesn't work out the departure hurts a lot more. Bobby Lamb was Mr. Furman. Regardless of what you think of his departure from Furman, I cheer for him at Mercer except when he plays Furman and then it is tough not to see him in purple.

[PaladinFan]

I love the idea of hiring a Furman alum, but the downside is when it doesn't work out the departure hurts a lot more. Bobby Lamb was Mr. Furman. Regardless of what you think of his departure from Furman, I cheer for him at Mercer except when he plays Furman and then it is tough not to see him in purple.

Sure.

I do think that if this is indeed the end of Fowler's tenure, that Furman is going to have to make a really smart hire, regardless. We really started to see the program start declining during the last few years of Lambs' tenure and then, minus a few positive seasons, completely fall off the table during Fowler's.

[OL FU]

Sure.

I do think that if this is indeed the end of Fowler's tenure, that Furman is going to have to make a really smart hire, regardless. We really started to see the program start declining during the last few years of Lambs' tenure and then, minus a few positive seasons, completely fall off the table during Fowler's.

BTW, I absolutely agree with Hendrix. Whether it was his departure or other reasons, the downward tread started then.

[CID1990]

Interesting thought… can Chadwell recruit under Furman's admissions policies? Maybe he would have academic support that he doesn't have at CSU.

Positives for Chadwell…
Greenville is booming. Downtown and the food scene rivals Charleston and Atlanta.
Bigger move up. If Chadwell stays at CSU his best option is a Sun Belt School. At Furman, it's an ACC or SEC school.
Furman's profile is broad, up and down the east coast. Opens up his recruiting footprint.
Facilities, he doesn't have to fundraise its built, best in class from the field to the locker room, to sports medicine, to the weight room.
Furman's campus, and the academics sell itself.
Tradition, it sucks at the moment but we have a national championship trophy.

Whether Chadwell can recruit at a school that requires more than a pulse for admissions (and retention, for that matter) remains to be seen.

He has yet to coach at such a school. The top APR school in the Big South would be near the bottom of the SoCon (and that ain't CSU)

BTW why do you guys need a new coach when you have THESE guys??

https://youtu.be/gcZmF9JYRHA


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[PaladinFan]

Whether Chadwell can recruit at a school that requires more than a pulse for admissions (and retention, for that matter) remains to be seen.

He has yet to coach at such a school. The top APR school in the Big South would be near the bottom of the SoCon (and that ain't CSU)

BTW why do you guys need a new coach when you have THESE guys??

https://youtu.be/gcZmF9JYRHA


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Good gravy, that video is nearly ten years old.

One of that crew was actually on the KSU sidelines last weekend as linebacker's coach.

[CID1990]

Good gravy, that video is nearly ten years old.

One of that crew was actually on the KSU sidelines last weekend as linebacker's coach.

So?

App State is still HOT HOT HOT

And firmun still sucks


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[ASU33]

Hopefully Furman can get back on track. I remember when they were rolling back in the mid-2000s. We actually went up for a few games during Bye weeks to see my cousin play.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Would Furman offer Chadwell? Would Chadwell go to Furman or is he looking at SunBelt, Conference USA type deals? I remember he was in the final running for Georgia Southern. I just can't see him at Chuck South another year if they win the conference title again and win 1 or 2 playoff games.

As an ETSU alumnus who had Jamey Chadwell in one of my classes there, I would have to say no. He is my number one choice for ETSU when Torbush retires.

[BigSouthFan]

As an ETSU alumnus who had Jamey Chadwell in one of my classes there, I would have to say no. He is my number one choice for ETSU when Torbush retires.

I think Chadwell is past ETSU at this point. He may take ETSU if it came open this year and nothing else was offered to him, but I think he gets a bigger call than ETSU if CSU makes a playoff run.

[elcid96]

Furman Sucks! Enough said. No further analysis is needed.

[CSU18]

Chadwell isn't leaving CSU for Furman (no offense to Furman). Couldn't be much of a pay raise, and he'd be going to a worse team (obviously a better team historically, but not a better team today). I've got a few friends with close ties to App - if Saterfield leaves after this season (not sure he will or why he would) Chadwell is on speed dial. I think Chadwell is gone after this year, but it will have to be a FCS school that is top tier in facilities and compensation or a Sunbelt type conference program. Not certain he wouldn't take an OC job at a much bigger program to set him self up for the head job a few years down the road either.

[OL FU]

Chadwell isn't leaving CSU for Furman (no offense to Furman). Couldn't be much of a pay raise, and he'd be going to a worse team (obviously a better team historically, but not a better team today). I've got a few friends with close ties to App - if Saterfield leaves after this season (not sure he will or why he would) Chadwell is on speed dial. I think Chadwell is gone after this year, but it will have to be a FCS school that is top tier in facilities and compensation or a Sunbelt type conference program. Not certain he wouldn't take an OC job at a much bigger program to set him self up for the head job a few years down the road either.

No offense taken. Can't see a reason for him to leave csu for fu

[AshevilleApp2]

Yoiks! Watching on the 3.

[PaladinFan]

Yoiks! Watching on the 3.

Furman's lone touchdown on a nearly 40 yard run by Reese Hannon. Because it is that sort of season.

Do feel a bit bad for Hannon. If he had played on some of the Furman teams of 10 or so years ago he might have rewritten the record books.

[ElCid]

Hey, I think they are going to mount a comeback in the second half so sit tight...and pray.

[BullDog85]

Vermin's defense has been decimated. Playing without starter LBs and I think the announcers mentioned a DT is out too. Vermin OC keeps calling for runs up the gut of the Sammy defense. It's hard to run up thier gut, they just defend between the tackles very well.

[PaladinFan]

Vermin's defense has been decimated. Playing without starter LBs and I think the announcers mentioned a DT is out too. Vermin OC keeps calling for runs up the gut of the Sammy defense. It's hard to run up thier gut, they just defend between the tackles very well.

I think you could make a compelling case that Rider and Johnson are two of the best linebackers in the SoCon. Having both of them out hurts.

Still, I could point to all the freshmen playing today, but it has gotten tiresome. We seem to struggle with mounting injuries every year and always seem, inexplicably, to play a ton of freshmen. Starting to become clear that it is systemic. Either a lack of depth or something in our strength training.

[SU DOG]

HANNON, what a warrior this guy is. Completing passes with d-linemen(our D-Line is an underrated group) in his face. I'm very happy with our win, Hodges has high level FBS talent, but I was sincerely impressed with Hannon's toughness. I didn't think this Furman team looked anything like a bunch that had quit or turned it in.

[OL FU]

I agree. Btw has the new fu passing record which prolly tells you something about the old fu offenses.i think Hannan has been a trooper and a bright spot in the last years . I reallly hate what has happened to us but I love the players

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Next 2 weeks are critical if Furman isn't to go 0-11 this season. What a sad fall for this once (and recently) proud program.

Is Furman on tough times financially? Is that the problem?

[PaladinFan]

Next 2 weeks are critical if Furman isn't to go 0-11 this season. What a sad fall for this once (and recently) proud program.

Is Furman on tough times financially? Is that the problem?

My understanding is Furman is financially fine. They, unlike a lot of universities (especially private ones) have not over leveraged themselves with debt to keep things afloat.

The program is still proud, the team just cannot seem to get a win. As I said on our forum, there is no reason that Furman shouldn't be a highly desirable landing spot for recruits. Coaching staff just looks over their heads right now.

[BullDog85]

Vermin has at minimum a $650M endowment. A nice chunk of it came from the tobacco magnet/ electric power industrialist James Duke's private foundation named the Duke Endowement. Vermin gets 5% of the 80% of the earnings the Duke Endowement distributes every year.

[citdog]

0-11 furman? makes me wish it was a 12 game season...

[sudog03]

Gonna be a long road back for Furman. They just aren't very talented. At least 2 recruiting classes away. Question though, how does Hannon sit on the bench for the so long? He sets the career passing yards record today for Furman, but can't crack the starting lineup without PJ getting hurt? Hannon was Furman's best player today, by a large margin.

[Mocs123]

Furmans defense was really good before all of the injuries, and I agree Hannon is really good and I can't believe he hasn't been playing. The Furman O Line isn't that great, but it seems to be injuries and offensive play calling that do them in. I don't see Fowler lasting the season, but if nothing else, it seems like the OC and Strength and Conditioning staff need to go.

[OL FU]

Vermin has at minimum a $650M endowment. A nice chunk of it came from the tobacco magnet/ electric power industrialist James Duke's private foundation named the Duke Endowement. Vermin gets 5% of the 80% of the earnings the Duke Endowement distributes every year.

Most of it came from Hollingsworth I believe around $300m