Idaho / WAC Football

[wapiti]

Interesting thread on the Idaho forum linked to an article about emails on moving down and trying to talk MSU/um into joining the WAC.

"Rob: Have you had an opportunity to speak with your President regarding football and whether or not he believes the idea of other Big Sky institutions moving to the FBS level could have any legs?" Hurd wrote. "Although (former Big Sky commissioner) Doug Fullerton had interest, one of my concerns is that the new Commissioner might consider it too much of a risk to have on his/her plate right shortly after being hired."
In another message, he said: "The WAC has traction and I look forward to influencing the Big Sky from within. I know I can convince Montana and Montana State to jump...we need to lock arms with them. And a bowl win changes everything! I know our kids will be motivated!"

"While the NCAA rules still recognize the WAC as an FBS league, I am not so sure how excited the current FBS conferences are about adding another league and dividing the money with another conference," Spear said last week. He added: "Whatever Idaho does in the future I think it is important that we align with Montana and Montana State."
http://www.scout.com/college/idaho/foru ... -drop-back (http://www.scout.com/college/idaho/forums/2664-vandal-football/15008747-lewiston-morning-tribune-on-fcs-drop-back)

[wapiti]

Possible WAC Football Conference:

1) Univ of Idaho
2) New Mexico State
3) Univ of Montana
4) Montana State
5) Univ of North Dakota
6) NDSU
7) SDSU
8) Univ of South Dakota

Other possibilities:

Eastern Washington
Northern Arizona
Weber
Wyoming
Utah State

Already playing baseball in the WAC:

Sac State
Northern Colorado
Univ of North Dakota

[Twentysix]

Why would Wyoming or usu Leave the mwc?

[MrTitleist]

Why would Wyoming or usu Leave the mwc?

^^^^^

[centennial]

UND and USD in a FBS league?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Man, this exact topic has been gone over so many ways here I just want to but don't hink I can do it again. Why on earth would that be a good deal for UM, MSU, NDSU, SDSU, etc.?

The WAC thing is absolutely possible but why would we want that? There is still nothing, not one f'n thing attractive about a asinine name change and still being basically the same if you ask me. Being the Sun Belt West is a horrifying thought to me.

BTW, I think Idaho still has plenty of financial issues to sort out anyway don't they? I thought they were bleeding money for the last 10 yrs.? When each FBS confrerence has a playoff spot let me know, I change my mind then.

I am sure with this dipping of the toes in the water I will probably be right back into this mess again. xlolx

[Bison56]

Just to say your in the FBS? No thanks.

[clenz]

Possible WAC Football Conference:

1) Univ of Idaho
2) New Mexico State
3) Univ of Montana
4) Montana State
5) Univ of North Dakota
6) NDSU
7) SDSU
8) Univ of South Dakota

Other possibilities:

Eastern Washington
Northern Arizona
Weber
Wyoming
Utah State

Already playing baseball in the WAC:

Sac State
Northern Colorado
Univ of North DakotaThat kind of conference is why the WAC died to being with...actually a better league than that is why the WAC died.

[jacksfan29]

Man, this exact topic has been gone over so many ways here I just want to but don't hink I can do it again. Why on earth would that be a good deal for UM, MSU, NDSU, SDSU, etc.?

The WAC thing is absolutely possible but why would we want that? There is still nothing, not one f'n thing attractive about a asinine name change and still being basically the same if you ask me. Being the Sun Belt West is a horrifying thought to me.

BTW, I think Idaho still has plenty of financial issues to sort out anyway don't they? I thought they were bleeding money for the last 10 yrs.? When each FBS confrerence has a playoff spot let me know, I change my mind then.

I am sure with this dipping of the toes in the water I will probably be right back into this mess again. xlolx

In the article, the Idaho AD mentions that they don't have the money to compete in FBS and that private funds are not coming in. He says they need another 5-6 million per year. I'm not real sure what the big news in the article is. That Idaho's AD tried to stay FBS by getting the WAC involved because the WAC felt it may be their only chance at survival? That must be it.

I do love how he states in one email that he can get Montana and Montana State to come along. If that's true why did UM and MSU not jump to the WAC when it was still a viable conference?

Oh, and when asked by the Idaho consultant NDSU and SDSU both stated they have no interest in the WAC.

[BisonFan02]

If the Sunbelt isn't good enough for NDSU........................that looks like the BSC but it just costs more and the WAC doesn't have a bowl presence. Oh boy, sign me up. xlolx

[jacksfan29]

Man, this exact topic has been gone over so many ways here I just want to but don't hink I can do it again. Why on earth would that be a good deal for UM, MSU, NDSU, SDSU, etc.?

The WAC thing is absolutely possible but why would we want that? There is still nothing, not one f'n thing attractive about a asinine name change and still being basically the same if you ask me. Being the Sun Belt West is a horrifying thought to me.

BTW, I think Idaho still has plenty of financial issues to sort out anyway don't they? I thought they were bleeding money for the last 10 yrs.? When each FBS confrerence has a playoff spot let me know, I change my mind then.

I am sure with this dipping of the toes in the water I will probably be right back into this mess again. xlolx

In the article, the Idaho AD mentions that they don't have the money to compete in FBS and that private funds are not coming in. He says they need another 5-6 million per year. I'm not real sure what the big news in the article is. That Idaho's AD tried to stay FBS by getting the WAC involved because the WAC felt it may be their only chance at survival? That must be it.

I do love how he states in one email that he can get Montana and Montana State to come along. If that's true why did UM and MSU not jump to the WAC when it was still a viable conference?

Oh, and when asked by the Idaho consultant NDSU and SDSU both stated they have no interest in the WAC. I don't think that will change anytime soon.

[BisonFan02]

Man, this exact topic has been gone over so many ways here I just want to but don't hink I can do it again. Why on earth would that be a good deal for UM, MSU, NDSU, SDSU, etc.?

The WAC thing is absolutely possible but why would we want that? There is still nothing, not one f'n thing attractive about a asinine name change and still being basically the same if you ask me. Being the Sun Belt West is a horrifying thought to me.

BTW, I think Idaho still has plenty of financial issues to sort out anyway don't they? I thought they were bleeding money for the last 10 yrs.? When each FBS confrerence has a playoff spot let me know, I change my mind then.

I am sure with this dipping of the toes in the water I will probably be right back into this mess again. xlolx

Yup......all of this. Maybe I should just read the thread first. xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

In the article, the Idaho AD mentions that they don't have the money to compete in FBS and that private funds are not coming in. He says they need another 5-6 million per year. I'm not real sure what the big news in the article is. That Idaho's AD tried to stay FBS by getting the WAC involved because the WAC felt it may be their only chance at survival? That must be it.

I do love how he states in one email that he can get Montana and Montana State to come along. If that's true why did UM and MSU not jump to the WAC when it was still a viable conference?

Oh, and when asked by the Idaho consultant NDSU and SDSU both stated they have no interest in the WAC.

Well, thank you for reading it and letting me off the hook on that. I am glad to see I already Idaho's problem pegged and that zero has changed from the numberous we've all done this thread in the past. xlolx

You have and use some logical thinking on the matter so you flat out nailed several of the points I just threw aside in my haste to get done with it. "Gonna talk us into it" C'mon man, we already have much more going for us than Idaho does and they are gonna convince us to follow them? That is some severely delusional **** but I really do like reading the emails/correspondence anyway.

"HEY, WE ONLY NEED TO RAISE ANOTHER 1/2 MILLION/MONTH TO BE ABLE TO COMPETE IN A LOW LEVEL FBS CONFERENCE"

Then we can travel thousands of miles for all of our conference games...oh wait, we already do that. xlolx

Hell, I actually don't mind the look of that conference but man you gotta be reasonable and there just isn't near enough good stuff to make this anything more than a bad idea.

[BisonFan02]

Well, thank you for reading it and letting me off the hook on that. I am glad to see I already Idaho's problem pegged and that zero has changed from the numberous we've all done this thread in the past. xlolx

You have and use some logical thinking on the matter so you flat out nailed several of the points I just threw aside in my haste to get done with it. "Gonna talk us into it" C'mon man, we already have much more going for us than Idaho does and they are gonna convince us to follow them? That is some severely delusional **** but I really do like reading the emails/correspondence anyway.

"HEY, WE ONLY NEED TO RAISE ANOTHER 1/2 MILLION/MONTH TO BE ABLE TO COMPETE IN A LOW LEVEL FBS CONFERENCE"

Then we can travel thousands of miles for all of our conference games...oh wait, we already do that. xlolx

Hell, I actually don't mind the look of that conference but man you gotta be reasonable and there just isn't near enough good stuff to make this anything more than a bad idea.

YOU already do that........but I digress. :D

[Thundar]

Und can't afford baseball let alone FBS

And I would drop all support if this came up at ndsu...joke of a "conference"

[Twentysix]

Und can't afford baseball let alone FBS

And I would drop all support if this came up at ndsu...joke of a "conference"

What do you mean by that?

I would continue to support NDSU even if they move to the pioneer...

[Thundar]

What do you mean by that?

I would continue to support NDSU even if they move to the pioneer...

I wouldn't support a money wasting move

[SUUTbird]

If there's going to be any moving up happening it's going to be a ripple effect from the Big 12 or a future expansion. Personally I would love to see the Montana schools and the Dakota State schools join the Mountain West, would be:

MOUNTAIN DIVISION

-Montana
-Montana State
-NDSU
-SDSU
-Wyoming
-Boise State
-Colorado State
-Air Force

Don't know about you but that would be a fun division to watch, would also enable schools to play in California once or twice a year for recruiting purposes.

[Thundar]

If there's going to be any moving up happening it's going to be a ripple effect from the Big 12 or a future expansion. Personally I would love to see the Montana schools and the Dakota State schools join the Mountain West, would be:

MOUNTAIN DIVISION

-Montana
-Montana State
-NDSU
-SDSU
-Wyoming
-Boise State
-Colorado State
-Air Force

Don't know about you but that would be a fun division to watch, would also enable schools to play in California once or twice a year for recruiting purposes.

Never happen but I would support something like this

[PantherRob82]

I'd like to see a WAC that is:

-UNI
-North Dakota State
-Montana
-Boise State
-Oregon
-Stanford
-UCLA
-UNLV
-Wichita State
-Utah
-TCU
-San Diego State
-Oklahoma
-Kansas

[mvemjsunpx]

At least the argument for the Griz (or whoever) moving up to the Mountain West has some merit. It's probably a bad idea & it's proponents tend to be single-mindedly optimistic & comically arrogant about the whole thing, but it's not insane.

Then there's this joke of an idea. Why would anyone want to play in FBS in that conference? Those teams would be competing for a championship in FCS, while in FBS they'd be competing for what… a bowl in the Kibbie Dome? I'm pretty sure somebody can smell the WAC's desperation in Australia at this point.

[BisonFan02]

I'd like to see a WAC that is:

-UNI
-North Dakota State
-Montana
-Boise State
-Oregon
-Stanford
-UCLA
-UNLV
-Wichita State
-Utah
-TCU
-San Diego State
-Oklahoma
-Kansas

Toss Boise State and add USC......then I'll think about it. :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

At least the argument for the Griz (or whoever) moving up to the Mountain West has some merit. It's probably a bad idea & it's proponents tend to be single-mindedly optimistic & comically arrogant about the whole thing, but it's not insane.

Then there's this joke of an idea. Why would anyone want to play in FBS in that conference? Those teams would be competing for a championship in FCS, while in FBS they'd be competing for what… a bowl in the Kibbie Dome? I'm pretty sure somebody can smell the WAC's desperation in Australia at this point.

This isn't the WAC's desperation though is it? This is Idaho's pipedream. I still haven't read the article so...legit asking.

[mvemjsunpx]

This isn't the WAC's desperation though is it? This is Idaho's pipedream. I still haven't read the article so...legit asking.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I figure the WAC is still kinda desperate after everything that's happened to them the last few years, though.

[MrTitleist]

If there's going to be any moving up happening it's going to be a ripple effect from the Big 12 or a future expansion. Personally I would love to see the Montana schools and the Dakota State schools join the Mountain West, would be:

MOUNTAIN DIVISION

-Montana
-Montana State
-NDSU
-SDSU
-Wyoming
-Boise State
-Colorado State
-Air Force

Don't know about you but that would be a fun division to watch, would also enable schools to play in California once or twice a year for recruiting purposes.

Big 12 ain't expanding.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There are some very important nuggets in this FOIA request that go well beyond the boring, been-there-done-that discussion about the WAC:


"Rob: Have you had an opportunity to speak with your President regarding football and whether or not he believes the idea of other Big Sky institutions moving to the FBS level could have any legs?" Hurd wrote. "Although (former Big Sky commissioner) Doug Fullerton had interest, one of my concerns is that the new Commissioner might consider it too much of a risk to have on his/her plate right shortly after being hired."Spear replied: "Jeff, do you have time for a call? I don't want to respond via email...FOIA."

IMO, this is a disclosed level of involvement of Doug Fullerton down this WAC/FBS path that was hitherto only whispered about. And Spear specifically didn't want that to come out in a future FOIA request, hence the response.



In another message, he said: "The WAC has traction and I look forward to influencing the Big Sky from within. I know I can convince Montana and Montana State to jump...we need to lock arms with them. And a bowl win changes everything! I know our kids will be motivated!"

I'm positive this well really endear Idaho in the Big sky, knowing that they're coming in basically with the idea of making existing members defect to a new conference.

Last week, Spear clarified that the WAC would need eight members to become an FBS league and six to become an FCS league.Although the WAC has expressed interest in reviving football - it originally disbanded in 2012 - other FBS conferences may not find the idea so appealing.
"While the NCAA rules still recognize the WAC as an FBS league, I am not so sure how excited the current FBS conferences are about adding another league and dividing the money with another conference," Spear said last week. He added: "Whatever Idaho does in the future I think it is important that we align with Montana and Montana State.

Forget everything you've ever read: this is precisely why the WAC in FBS will never happen, end of discussion. Even if it is legal other conferences will fight it tooth and nail, because they want to keep their share of the money. The ones fighting the hardest will be those with the slenderest slice of the money.

I find it very interesting, however, that the thought of making it an FCS conference was in there as well. And that aligning with Montana and Montana State were seen as vital even without FBS football.



In multiple emails, however, Spear advises that the decision wasn't his to make. He constantly fed input to Staben, but the ball was in the president's court."Ultimately, President Staben made the decision to move to the FCS," Spear said.

Indeed, and presumably, any talk of forming a new FBS WAC would be Staben's decision too.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It wasn't some whispered about thing with Fullerton. He discussed it openly and there was an article in which he discussed future possibilities a few years back with the WAC and the doors not being closed to some BSC teams if the jump were necessary. This is another thing that we've discussed openly on here too.

The comment about FOIA is pretty interesting though, for sure. I don't think it has anything to do with Fullerton being in favor or against it though...he entertained it as an idea/possibility and it was not a secret.

[Twentysix]

Big 12 ain't expanding.

I thought they were literally in the middle of expanding right now.

[kalm]

It seems like Idaho is in a more similar position to EWU rather than the Montanas. The concern is a realignment scenario where you may or may not have the current resources, future support and facilities to make the jump up whereas the UM and MSU probably do. He might say he'd get the Montana's to follow Idaho but the true hope is the opposite where EWU and UI would hope to hitch up and follow. That's part of the reason stadium expansion and the lack there of in Cheney is such a critical issue.

[Thundar]

I thought they were literally in the middle of expanding right now.

Until Houston took down OK

[clenz]

I thought they were literally in the middle of expanding right now.
The B12 doesn't even know what they are doing.

It's held together by chewing gum and scotch tape.

[jacksfan29]

It was also openly discussed in the Idaho consultants report in which is talked about Fullerton's dream scenario that was shot down by the BSC Presidents.

I missed the email about working within the BSC. Idaho's admission that they may attempt to break up the BSC from within likely will not sit well with the new commissioner and a lot of the BSC schools. Especially the smaller ones who have no resources to make any type of move.


It wasn't some whispered about thing with Fullerton. He discussed it openly and there was an article in which he discussed future possibilities a few years back with the WAC and the doors not being closed to some BSC teams if the jump were necessary. This is another thing that we've discussed openly on here too.

The comment about FOIA is pretty interesting though, for sure. I don't think it has anything to do with Fullerton being in favor or against it though...he entertained it as an idea/possibility and it was not a secret.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It was also openly discussed in the Idaho consultants report in which is talked about Fullerton's dream scenario that was shot down by the BSC Presidents.

I missed the email about working within the BSC. Idaho's admission that they may attempt to break up the BSC from within likely will not sit well with the new commissioner and a lot of the BSC schools. Especially the smaller ones who have no resources to make any type of move.

Exactly right. That is some moronic **** to be doing but to be honest there has always been an attitude at Idaho among some there that they are a much bigger deal than they truly are. That is a really poor way to come into the BSC for sure.

Back in the day, this is how I could best have described Idaho. You would want to buy them for what they were actually worth, and sell them for what THEY think they are worth...you'd be happy.

But, I will give this a bit of a pass for now. They are/were in a very bad spot. Some things may have been needed to be said or attempted to appease one side or another in the new move. I don't think it would but if you are a donor or supporter that only thinks FBS is all you can do to retain pride then maybe you have to pretend it is still an option if only Montana & Montana State line up with you shoulder to shoulder and start pushing. They just don't seem to realize it is not a dream of ours to be fabulously mediocre in FBS.

[Schism55]

Who gives the first flying **** about cal state fullerton?? Seriously