Teams That Make You Go Hmm...

[superman7515]

Reading what someone posted about how bad Sacramento State is got me wondering... 20 years in 1AA/FCS and they've never won the Big Sky, never made the playoffs, rarely even get above .500 at the end of the season. You're in a major city in California with about a 1/2 million people living in the city and 2.5 million in the metro area, 2 hours from the beach and major areas like San Francisco, how the heck can you not recruit talented coaches and athletes to come there and accidentally make it to the playoffs once in 20 years?

So what team(s) have been bad for a considerable amount of time, we're talking at least a decade or more with no playoff success and several losing seasons, at the FCS level and you just don't understand how they don't get their stuff together.

I'll give an example that you may/may not agree with. Florida A&M.

Here's a team that is one of the top 10 in all-time FCS wins, they won a national championship in the 70's, made deep playoff runs in the late 90's, name recognition, large fanbase, great recruiting area, and until recently the nearest FCS teams with scholarships to recruit against them were Bethune-Cookman, The Citadel, Charleston Southern, Jacksonville State, Samford, and Southeastern Louisiana. Bethune-Cookman is the closest, at 250 miles away, with most of the others 400+ miles.

All of that going for them and they haven't won a playoff game this century and are shaping up for their fifth straight losing season, despite playing easier competition than they did during their heyday.

So who makes you wonder how they keep shooting themselves in the foot?

[Catsfan90]

Rhode Island. Haven't had a winning season, or even broken even in as long as I can remember. They have a great basketball team so it isn't like the school doesn't care about athletics, and they play in one of the power FCS conferences. The area they play is beautiful, and is also very wealthy. The recruiting area is good with NY, NJ, Conn, and Mass right near them. They are only a few hours drive from UNH and UMAINE, who have both been very successful in this time span. All of this coupled with the fact their facilities aren't that bad, and it's a head scratcher why they have continued to be bottom feeders.

[RootinFerDukes]

I'm watching the SHSU/HBU game right now and it's the play where HBU forced a fumble, returned it 25 yards only to fumble it away themselves, giving SHSU a first down anyways. It doesn't get any sadder than that. Now a referee is staring right at a horse collar tackle right in front of him and doesn't throw a flag. So sad. Meanwhile CAA refs call a targeting anytime they hear helmets smack.

In the CAA, I will echo Rhode Island. It must be humbling to know you've been in this conference since 1946 (Yankee and A-10 counted) and new comers Albany, Stony Brook and Elon are accomplishing more than you in just three or so years.

[Gil Dobie]

Why the SWAC and Ivy's don't participate in Football playoffs, but will participate in other sports.

[bonarae]

In the Ivy League, Cornell and Columbia come to mind. Both C's have had losing seasons end to end, for years at a time.

Elsewhere in the nation... I agree with Sacramento State, Florida A&M and Rhody. What about the teams in the PFL? Of these, I can think of Morehead State, Campbell, Stetson, Drake and of course Davidson. Austin Peay (ex-PFL BTW)? Missouri State? They all meet the criteria, at least in recent memory.

Well... the other programs who struggled in their last few years before dropping football aren't EVER coming back, at least in our lifetime. They have had enough of the traumas and controversies surrounding football. xchinscratchx

[ASU33]

Reading what someone posted about how bad Sacramento State is got me wondering... 20 years in 1AA/FCS and they've never won the Big Sky, never made the playoffs, rarely even get above .500 at the end of the season. You're in a major city in California with about a 1/2 million people living in the city and 2.5 million in the metro area, 2 hours from the beach and major areas like San Francisco, how the heck can you not recruit talented coaches and athletes to come there and accidentally make it to the playoffs once in 20 years?

So what team(s) have been bad for a considerable amount of time, we're talking at least a decade or more with no playoff success and several losing seasons, at the FCS level and you just don't understand how they don't get their stuff together.

I'll give an example that you may/may not agree with. Florida A&M.

Here's a team that is one of the top 10 in all-time FCS wins, they won a national championship in the 70's, made deep playoff runs in the late 90's, name recognition, large fanbase, great recruiting area, and until recently the nearest FCS teams with scholarships to recruit against them were Bethune-Cookman, The Citadel, Charleston Southern, Jacksonville State, Samford, and Southeastern Louisiana. Bethune-Cookman is the closest, at 250 miles away, with most of the others 400+ miles.

All of that going for them and they haven't won a playoff game this century and are shaping up for their fifth straight losing season, despite playing easier competition than they did during their heyday.

So who makes you wonder how they keep shooting themselves in the foot?

FAMU has been FAMUs own worst enemy.

[WileECoyote06]

FAMU has been FAMUs own worst enemy.

Yep. Their inconsistency in football has mirrored their inconsistency in their presidency over the past fifteen years. But lest we forget, they did win a share of the MEAC crown in 2010.

[Thumper 76]

Missouri State. They seem to be committed to their football as a university with the money they have dumped into their stadium, they are much closer to recruiting hotbeds than any other MVFC team, have hired coaches who have won at other schools, but can't seem to get it together. I mean, Indiana State has done better, and their facilities and support are complete trash.

[superman7515]

FAMU has been FAMUs own worst enemy.

Yeah, but that's kinda what I'm talking about. There are some teams that seem to have a lot going for them, yet they can't get out of their own way. I think FAMU is a golden example of it.

[REALBird]

Missouri State. They seem to be committed to their football as a university with the money they have dumped into their stadium, they are much closer to recruiting hotbeds than any other MVFC team, have hired coaches who have won at other schools, but can't seem to get it together. I mean, Indiana State has done better, and their facilities and support are complete trash.

I agree.

[ASU33]

Monte Coleman of Arkansas Pine-Bluff has a 38–54 overall coaching record, has been there 9 years and has only had one season during that time where he's won 7 or more games which was 2012. Since 2008 UAPBs attendance average has dropped from 10,000+ to now less than 6000 but this off season UAPB gave him a two year extension. This is a big hmmmmmm......,

[Bisonator]

Missouri State. They seem to be committed to their football as a university with the money they have dumped into their stadium, they are much closer to recruiting hotbeds than any other MVFC team, have hired coaches who have won at other schools, but can't seem to get it together. I mean, Indiana State has done better, and their facilities and support are complete trash.
Definitely the nominee from the MVFC. xnodx

[dewey]

Missouri State. They seem to be committed to their football as a university with the money they have dumped into their stadium, they are much closer to recruiting hotbeds than any other MVFC team, have hired coaches who have won at other schools, but can't seem to get it together. I mean, Indiana State has done better, and their facilities and support are complete trash.


^^^^This. Missouri State is about 2-4 hours from the major metro areas of St Louis, Kansas City and Tulsa. They just upgraded their football complex and still can't win.

Dewey

[clenz]

^^^^This. Missouri State is about 2-4 hours from the major metro areas of St Louis, Kansas City and Tulsa. They just upgraded their football complex and still can't win.

Dewey
It's not just their football program that makes you wonder.

JHQ Arena: opened 2008, capacity of 11,000 including 114 loge seats and 22 private suite
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/JQHWebLarge.jpghttp://onpressrow.com/test/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/JQHArena-MSUmbb.jpeg

It cost $70m to build that place and guess what they left out.....locker rooms. Yep. Up until 2013 when locker rooms were added the arena didn't house a single locker room or basketball office. It took a half of a decade following completion to figure out that was an issue.

They have one of the best facilities in the conference. A fan base that so desperately wants to win at basketball - don't kid yourself on they money they spent on the football facility, this is a basketball schoool - and yet only 1 conference championship since joining the MVC in 1990 (2011), only two NCAA appearances (1992 [by way of winning the tourney] and 1999). They dumped all the money into redoing Plaster simply to get into the Sun Belt, which is largely driven because a large majority of their fan base believes the MVC has it out for them, and the reason they aren't getting NCAA bids and aren't winning more. They've dumped tons of resources into the program, pay their coach pretty good money for a MM program (He's about $400K right now). They are 71-90 since their regular season title in 2011. That's skewed by the fact they play horridly easy OOC schedules that consists of 4 SWAC, and a few MEAC/OVC games. In conference they are 38-52 over that time and have finished in 7th, 8th, 6th, 9th and 7th place in conference. Even the three season leading up to the 2011 season were 7th, 10th and 8th place MVC finishes. The incompetence to get that program going the right direction is staggering.

Other facilities MSU has
Volleyball/Swimming and Diving (in another part of the building)
http://missouristate.info/images/buildings/Hammons-Student-Center-18514_0002.jpghttps://farm9.staticflickr.com/8502/8397470016_0e5e1ac01f_c.jpg

Baseball:
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/HammonsFieldWebLarge.jpg

Softball
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/KillianWebLarge.jpg


Soccer and track and field
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/AllisonSouth3.jpg


Field Hockey - not many programs, regardless of size have a dedicated field hockey field
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/AllisonNorth2.jpg

Tennis
http://www.novasports.com/assets/images/courts/nov-2013.pnghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ea/04/a8/ea04a88cef9d3950d9950848ed406d88.jpg





It is mind blowing the facilities they have, the donors they have, all of the advantages you'd think they'd have....and yet....they are Misery State. I hate to admit it, because I give MSU fans so much crap, but they legitimately have AAC, MWC, etc... style facilities. They just have MEAC, OVC, etc... programs which seems unacceptable given what they have.

[AmsterBison]

UC Davis. Started their move to DI by beating Stanford. In 30 years at the D2 level, they didn't have a single losing season and made the playoffs 18 times while not offering the maximum number of scholarships.

In the FCS with a brand new stadium, they have no playoff appearances and have had five losing seasons in a row.

Most people, including me, looked on UC Davis as a sure thing in the FCS. To me, this proves one thing: You can't half-ass a move to the FCS - you need a huge commitment by all the stakeholders.

[IndyTreeFan]

It's not just their football program that makes you wonder.

JHQ Arena: opened 2008, capacity of 11,000 including 114 loge seats and 22 private suite
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/JQHWebLarge.jpghttp://onpressrow.com/test/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/JQHArena-MSUmbb.jpeg

It cost $70m to build that place and guess what they left out.....locker rooms. Yep. Up until 2013 when locker rooms were added the arena didn't house a single locker room or basketball office. It took a half of a decade following completion to figure out that was an issue.

They have one of the best facilities in the conference. A fan base that so desperately wants to win at basketball - don't kid yourself on they money they spent on the football facility, this is a basketball schoool - and yet only 1 conference championship since joining the MVC in 1990 (2011), only two NCAA appearances (1992 [by way of winning the tourney] and 1999). They dumped all the money into redoing Plaster simply to get into the Sun Belt, which is largely driven because a large majority of their fan base believes the MVC has it out for them, and the reason they aren't getting NCAA bids and aren't winning more. They've dumped tons of resources into the program, pay their coach pretty good money for a MM program (He's about $400K right now). They are 71-90 since their regular season title in 2011. That's skewed by the fact they play horridly easy OOC schedules that consists of 4 SWAC, and a few MEAC/OVC games. In conference they are 38-52 over that time and have finished in 7th, 8th, 6th, 9th and 7th place in conference. Even the three season leading up to the 2011 season were 7th, 10th and 8th place MVC finishes. The incompetence to get that program going the right direction is staggering.

Other facilities MSU has
Volleyball/Swimming and Diving (in another part of the building)
http://missouristate.info/images/buildings/Hammons-Student-Center-18514_0002.jpghttps://farm9.staticflickr.com/8502/8397470016_0e5e1ac01f_c.jpg

Baseball:
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/HammonsFieldWebLarge.jpg

Softball
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/KillianWebLarge.jpg


Soccer and track and field
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/AllisonSouth3.jpg


Field Hockey - not many programs, regardless of size have a dedicated field hockey field
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/AllisonNorth2.jpg

Tennis
http://www.novasports.com/assets/images/courts/nov-2013.pnghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ea/04/a8/ea04a88cef9d3950d9950848ed406d88.jpg





It is mind blowing the facilities they have, the donors they have, all of the advantages you'd think they'd have....and yet....they are Misery State. I hate to admit it, because I give MSU fans so much crap, but they legitimately have AAC, MWC, etc... style facilities. They just have MEAC, OVC, etc... programs which seems unacceptable given what they have.

I've never been able to figure them out, either. They have everything that we want at Indiana State, yet somehow we seem to generally outperform them. I don't get it. If I were John Q Hammons, I'd be pretty pissed off...if I was alive...

[clenz]

I've never been able to figure them out, either. They have everything that we want at Indiana State, yet somehow we seem to generally outperform them. I don't get it. If I were John Q Hammons, I'd be pretty pissed off...if I was alive...
You give UNI, Illinois State, Indiana State or SIU those facilities and money of John Hammons backing them up and none of them are in the MVC/MVFC more than 3 years.

UNI becomes an instant MWC/AAC target....CUSA at the very worst
ISUb is in the MAC
ISUr is worst case MAC but likely CUSA, or AAC
SIU is worst case MAC but likely CUSA

MSU is prime recruiting area for all sports, massive donor pockets, foot print of CUSA, AAC, MWC and Sun Belt....yet....nothing

[Sycamore62]

I've never been able to figure them out, either. They have everything that we want at Indiana State, yet somehow we seem to generally outperform them. I don't get it. If I were John Q Hammons, I'd be pretty pissed off...if I was alive...

especially if they didnt include a way to get out of that coffin

[IndyTreeFan]

especially if they didnt include a way to get out of that coffin

xbowx

[eiu1999]

Those MSU facilities are insane.

[bjtheflamesfan]

I can think of two from the Big South:

1) Liberty

The thing about the Flames the last decade hasn't been that they were BAD necessarily...but they can't seem to take that next step. for the LONGEST time we would come up just short of the playoffs (don't even talk to me or any Liberty fan about the 2008 or 2009 seasons), then they finally made the playoffs in 2014 and even beat JMU...but last year took a major step back and this year ar not showing signs of getting better through 4 games

2) Presbyterian
The Blue Hose began the D1 transition in 2008 (including an upset win over the defending Big South champion at the time in Liberty but since 2008 here are their win totals: 4, 0, 2, 4, 2, 3, 6, 2

[woffordgrad94]

PC doesn't necessarily make me go hmmmmmmm. They are simply a bad program that will never be good. They don't have what it takes to get better and likely never will. All their sports are bad. In sports where Wofford is mediocre or less, PC is even worse. They should have stayed in D2. xtwocentsx

[caribbeanhen]

Reading what someone posted about how bad Sacramento State is got me wondering... 20 years in 1AA/FCS and they've never won the Big Sky, never made the playoffs, rarely even get above .500 at the end of the season. You're in a major city in California with about a 1/2 million people living in the city and 2.5 million in the metro area, 2 hours from the beach and major areas like San Francisco, how the heck can you not recruit talented coaches and athletes to come there and accidentally make it to the playoffs once in 20 years?

So what team(s) have been bad for a considerable amount of time, we're talking at least a decade or more with no playoff success and several losing seasons, at the FCS level and you just don't understand how they don't get their stuff together.

I'll give an example that you may/may not agree with. Florida A&M.

Here's a team that is one of the top 10 in all-time FCS wins, they won a national championship in the 70's, made deep playoff runs in the late 90's, name recognition, large fanbase, great recruiting area, and until recently the nearest FCS teams with scholarships to recruit against them were Bethune-Cookman, The Citadel, Charleston Southern, Jacksonville State, Samford, and Southeastern Louisiana. Bethune-Cookman is the closest, at 250 miles away, with most of the others 400+ miles.

All of that going for them and they haven't won a playoff game this century and are shaping up for their fifth straight losing season, despite playing easier competition than they did during their heyday.

So who makes you wonder how they keep shooting themselves in the foot?

how about Delaware? KC Keeler stated when hired in 2002 that Delaware was the LSU of 1AA football, all the resources ...... it's been 6 years now since they made the playoffs and this year is on the bubble, just a receiver away from being a true force though..... but the WR never showed up

[Thumper 76]

how about Delaware? KC Keeler stated when hired in 2002 that Delaware was the LSU of 1AA football, all the resources ...... it's been 6 years now since they made the playoffs and this year is on the bubble, just a receiver away from being a true force though..... but the WR never showed up

Guess he was right. Can't get a passing game and nothing for 6 years in a program with deep history.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Considering program and facility investments, Stony Brook probably belongs in this discussion. To my knowledge, they have not sniffed the playoffs since they joined the CAA.

And yes, Delaware is a year or two away from belonging in this discussion.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

How about Furman? They have great tradition and it's been a decade since they have been relevant.

[woffordgrad94]

If Furman loses to Kennesaw State, that well definitely make me go hmmmmmmmmm. KSU is definitely a team they should beat, especially at home. A loss would make them 0-5 and send them to Crapsville, because they would pretty much be eliminated from playoff consideration. I think Furman will get it done Saturday, but if they don't then we have to admit they have some real issues.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

My comment about Furman is less about this season and more about the decade-plus since Ingle Martin graduated. The Paladins were one of the best programs in 1AA. Now they are a modest program in a watered down SoCon.

[BisonFan02]

Postseason Montana and UNI. I understand Montana has won two, but their 33-23ish (my rough wiki count) in the postseason leaves me scratching my head a bit....see also last 15 years.

UNI is self explanatory. They are in a tie for last with a lot of people for nattys.....and they shouldn't be.

[woffordgrad94]

My comment about Furman is less about this season and more about the decade-plus since Ingle Martin graduated. The Paladins were one of the best programs in 1AA. Now they are a modest program in a watered down SoCon.
That's true. They're nowhere near as good as they used to be.

[Mattymc727]

Rhody has always been a head scratcher for me. UNH and Maine have gotten it done with the same excuses, if not more. You would think they would have a winning season at least once in a while...

What about Northern Colorado? They have a pretty strong D2 history and are a decently sized state school. Dont expect them to win the Big Sky every year but I dont think they even compete.

[ASU33]

My comment about Furman is less about this season and more about the decade-plus since Ingle Martin graduated. The Paladins were one of the best programs in 1AA. Now they are a modest program in a watered down SoCon.

I've also wondered what happened to Furman. My cousin played there from 2003-2006 and they were a National Title contender during those years.

[UNIFanSince1983]

My comment about Furman is less about this season and more about the decade-plus since Ingle Martin graduated. The Paladins were one of the best programs in 1AA. Now they are a modest program in a watered down SoCon.

Yeah when App State and GaSo left the SoCon for the belch I think it was assumed Furman and Wofford would take the throne. That hasn't exactly worked out. Maybe others have stepped up, but yeah Furman used to be a player nationally and now they are an afterthought.

[MacThor]

Postseason Montana and UNI. I understand Montana has won two, but their 33-23ish (my rough wiki count) in the postseason leaves me scratching my head a bit....see also last 15 years.

UNI is self explanatory. They are in a tie for last with a lot of people for nattys.....and they shouldn't be.

33-23 is a damn good postseason record.

[UNIFanSince1983]

33-23 is a damn good postseason record.

Yeah. Some of these Bizon fans don't know what a non-ridiculous post season record looks like. 33-23 in the post season is amazing. Any time you are 10 games above .500 in the postseason is really good. They just assume if you have lost more than 1 game in your entire post season history it is a bad record.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Rhody has always been a head scratcher for me. UNH and Maine have gotten it done with the same excuses, if not more. You would think they would have a winning season at least once in a while...

What about Northern Colorado? They have a pretty strong D2 history and are a decently sized state school. Dont expect them to win the Big Sky every year but I dont think they even compete.

Like you, Northern Colorado is one I can't figure out. They were a damn good D2 program but have not been able to carry that success over. Their stadium is nice enough and Greely is near the major hubs of the Front Range.

[BisonFan02]

33-23 is a damn good postseason record.


Yeah. Some of these Bizon fans don't know what a non-ridiculous post season record looks like. 33-23 in the post season is amazing. Any time you are 10 games above .500 in the postseason is really good. They just assume if you have lost more than 1 game in your entire post season history it is a bad record.

It's sure tougher to pile up postseason losses below a .500 record unless you have a bunch of "1 and dones". They don't let you keep playing once you lose..... xlolx

[AmsterBison]

Northern Colorado is a bit of a cautionary tale. IIRC, they had a big donor push for DI and then pull their funding right after the move.

Getting all the stakeholders to buy into the move is the best foundation for building a program... one or two big donors - that's a very unstable foundation.

[MacThor]

Yeah. Some of these Bizon fans don't know what a non-ridiculous post season record looks like. 33-23 in the post season is amazing. Any time you are 10 games above .500 in the postseason is really good. They just assume if you have lost more than 1 game in your entire post season history it is a bad record.

No kidding. Prior to expansion, if you were even one game over .500 in a given year that meant you made the semi-finals. That still applies to teams with a bye.

[clenz]

No kidding. Prior to expansion, if you were even one game over .500 in a given year that meant you made the semi-finals. That still applies to teams with a bye.
Yep.

16 team tournament meant less games, less games against craptastic teams.

Between 78-85 it was 4 and 8 team playoffs. Even fewer playoff games.

[MacThor]

It's sure tougher to pile up postseason losses below a .500 record unless you have a bunch of "1 and dones". They don't let you keep playing once you lose..... xlolx

I think it's safe to assume that the mean post-season record is .500.
The median is probably <.500 considering the one-and-dones.

For a team to accumulate games over .500 means they advanced multiple rounds, multiple times.

[BisonFan02]

I think it's safe to assume that the mean post-season record is .500.
The median is probably <.500 considering the one-and-dones.

For a team to accumulate games over .500 means they advanced multiple rounds, multiple times.

I'll expand further when I'm not on my phone. I'm not saying Montana and UNI are bad programs. It is just a "scratch". Stand by. xthumbsupx

[carney2]

Bonarae brought it up, but how about Cornell?!! I'll forget about Columbia. They deserve it. Cornell is THE State University of New York, fer gawdsake. I mean, think the University of Texas, Nebraska, Ohio State, ... and they cannot put together an athletic program. They are Ivy League you say, and probably have impossible academic standards. Yes and no. Cornell consists of six "colleges." A student is accepted by an individual college and not the university as a whole. Three of those colleges are Ivy League. The other three are the State University of New York with state university admission standards and costs. You'd think that one coach or another would grasp the concept that some athletes can be wedged in among those state university enrollees. Was Ed Marinaro the end of it all? Cornell has such an incredible advantage over its fellow Ivy Leaguers that they should clean up every year and should currently be on the verge of being expelled from the fraternity by the other seven.

[DFW HOYA]

Submitted for approval: Howard University. Considered the pinnacle of the black college experience, Howard athletics have endured a remarkable and repeatable pattern of administrative indifference for decades. Remember, this is the only private university in America that gets a $221 million allocation from Congress every year and still loses money.

The 2010 link below illustrates this but it has not changed appreciably in the intervening years.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arts/theater/article/13039901/howard-university-starts-over-with-sports-the-bisons-new-athletic

And in 2016, new challenges:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/is-this-howard-universitys-tipping-point/2016/04/27/ff418fe4-f694-11e5-9804-537defcc3cf6_story.html

[Grizalltheway]

Postseason Montana and UNI. I understand Montana has won two, but their 33-23ish (my rough wiki count) in the postseason leaves me scratching my head a bit....see also last 15 years.

UNI is self explanatory. They are in a tie for last with a lot of people for nattys.....and they shouldn't be.

Lets see...

'96-Randy Moss...enough said
2000-2 point loss to Adrian Peterson and GSU at the height of their dynasty.
2004, 2008, 2009-great teams that weren't quite good enough to overcome the CAA in its zenith and great individual performances by Sidbury and Sczcur.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Lets see...

'96-Randy Moss...enough said
2000-2 point loss to Adrian Peterson and GSU at the height of their dynasty.
2004, 2008, 2009-great teams that weren't quite good enough to overcome the CAA in its zenith and great individual performances by Sidbury and Sczcur.

Thanks for that reminder of '08. Made my day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPydgMoTs04

[NY Crusader 2010]

Each conference has at least one program that makes me shake my head:

NEC: Central Connecticut State - Seemed to win 7 or 8 games regularly before the NEC upped its scholarship commitment. Only public school in CT playing FCS football and now they are perennially behind the likes of STFU, Bob Morris and Wagner while SHU has stolen a lot of their in-state thunder.

PL: Tie between Holy Cross and Bucknell - The Crusaders appeared to finally be "back" soon after Coach Gilmore took over but to say we've spun our wheels since our 2009 championship would be giving us to much credit. Bucknell, every year, is supposed to be on the rise and a sleeper to be the most improved squad in the league. Every year except for 2014, they've disappointed. For the school that is the most supportive of men's basketball among it's PL brethren, they draw flies for football. This is even more sad considering they are in a very football-driven neck of the woods being an hour away from Penn State.

CAA: URI - Tremendous basketball following, it's almost like football is the retarded half brother. Plus, you'd think after they pulled back from downgrading to the NEC, that they'd up the commitment to compete in the CAA. At some point after going 1-10 every year, isn't someone going to rattle the cages in Kingtson?

Ivy: Cornell - As carney2 pointed out, they're the biggest school in the Ivy League by far and in theory have the laxest admissions standards (though by many accounts it's the easiest Ivy to get into and the hardest to graduate from). They've been nationally ranked within the last decade in hockey, lacrosse and men's basketball so it's not like they're Columbia and don't care about athletics in general.

Southland: A lot of newbies in this league but I seem to remember growing up that Northwestern State had some pretty good teams in the '90s - haven't seen much out of them lately.

SoCon: Furman - You'd have thought that when App State and GSU left that this would be the opportunity for them to step up and become the flagship. Instead, former doormats Chattanooga and Western Carolina have been battling it out for titles.

Big South: Liberty - A school that is clearly hungry for FBS should at least be consistently top-15 at our level right? They have how many playoff berths now? One?

MEAC: FAMU - Mentioned earlier in the thread. I remember the awesome teams they had in the late 90's. They were transitioning to I-A in 02/03 and decided to move back down but have barely been competitive since.

Big Sky: Northern Colorado - when they were Division II, they were just as good as the Dakota schools and the aforementioned UC Davis. Only FCS school in a pretty big state. DII CSU-Pueblo got a bigger FCS win a couple years ago than UNC has ever had when they beat SHSU.

MVFC: Missouri State - only scholarship FCS school in a state with just one FBS program and two major league media markets. And, their facilities that were posted earlier should be blowing potential recruits away!

SWAC: No one really stands out but Jackson State has been quiet for a while. Used to lead FCS in attendance every year and they've won just one of the last 15 conference championships, though they've won their division a bunch.

OVC: Again, no one stands out but Austin Peay has done nothing since upgrading from the Pioneer. Don't know who else to expect more from maybe other than Murray State -- success on the hardwood has not translated.

PFL: Davidson - if anyone sponsors Division I football merely to have it as a participation sport, it's them.

[ASU33]

Each conference has at least one program that makes me shake my head:

NEC: Central Connecticut State - Seemed to win 7 or 8 games regularly before the NEC upped its scholarship commitment. Only public school in CT playing FCS football and now they are perennially behind the likes of STFU, Bob Morris and Wagner while SHU has stolen a lot of their in-state thunder.

PL: Tie between Holy Cross and Bucknell - The Crusaders appeared to finally be "back" soon after Coach Gilmore took over but to say we've spun our wheels since our 2009 championship would be giving us to much credit. Bucknell, every year, is supposed to be on the rise and a sleeper to be the most improved squad in the league. Every year except for 2014, they've disappointed. For the school that is the most supportive of men's basketball among it's PL brethren, they draw flies for football. This is even more sad considering they are in a very football-driven neck of the woods being an hour away from Penn State.

CAA: URI - Tremendous basketball following, it's almost like football is the retarded half brother. Plus, you'd think after they pulled back from downgrading to the NEC, that they'd up the commitment to compete in the CAA. At some point after going 1-10 every year, isn't someone going to rattle the cages in Kingtson?

Ivy: Cornell - As carney2 pointed out, they're the biggest school in the Ivy League by far and in theory have the laxest admissions standards (though by many accounts it's the easiest Ivy to get into and the hardest to graduate from). They've been nationally ranked within the last decade in hockey, lacrosse and men's basketball so it's not like they're Columbia and don't care about athletics in general.

Southland: A lot of newbies in this league but I seem to remember growing up that Northwestern State had some pretty good teams in the '90s - haven't seen much out of them lately.

SoCon: Furman - You'd have thought that when App State and GSU left that this would be the opportunity for them to step up and become the flagship. Instead, former doormats Chattanooga and Western Carolina have been battling it out for titles.

Big South: Liberty - A school that is clearly hungry for FBS should at least be consistently top-15 at our level right? They have how many playoff berths now? One?

MEAC: FAMU - Mentioned earlier in the thread. I remember the awesome teams they had in the late 90's. They were transitioning to I-A in 02/03 and decided to move back down but have barely been competitive since.

Big Sky: Northern Colorado - when they were Division II, they were just as good as the Dakota schools and the aforementioned UC Davis. Only FCS school in a pretty big state. DII CSU-Pueblo got a bigger FCS win a couple years ago than UNC has ever had when they beat SHSU.

MVFC: Missouri State - only scholarship FCS school in a state with just one FBS program and two major league media markets. And, their facilities that were posted earlier should be blowing potential recruits away!

SWAC: No one really stands out but Jackson State has been quiet for a while. Used to lead FCS in attendance every year and they've won just one of the last 15 conference championships, though they've won their division a bunch.


See FAMU, much of the same with Jackson State. Attendance is still pretty good but they've been a revolving door as far as the head coach position.

[Kemo]

http://www.novasports.com/assets/images/courts/nov-2013.pnghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ea/04/a8/ea04a88cef9d3950d9950848ed406d88.jpg


Is MSU good at tennis? I've never seen such a nice facility for that sport on a college campus, especially for a non-P5 school.

[clenz]

Is MSU good at tennis? I've never seen such a nice facility for that sport on a college campus, especially for a non-P5 school.

No men's tennis

Women's tennis was 11-14 last year and 3-4 in conference. That's an improvement from 4-17 1-6 the year before.

Yeah. As I said, how MSU has/gets the facilities they do with the results they produce is unbelievable.

[NY Crusader 2010]

No men's tennis

Women's tennis was 11-14 last year and 3-4 in conference. That's an improvement from 4-17 1-6 the year before.

Yeah. As I said, how MSU has/gets the facilities they do with the results they produce is unbelievable.

Wow. They could move the US Open there.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Considering program and facility investments, Stony Brook probably belongs in this discussion. To my knowledge, they have not sniffed the playoffs since they joined the CAA.

And yes, Delaware is a year or two away from belonging in this discussion.

Stony Brook will get theirs, and relatively soon. The Seawolves' best teams came right at the end of their run in the Big South (don't remember if there was an auto-bid for them yet). I watched them absolutely roll over Army when they had that loaded backfield.

[TheValleyRaider]

Bonarae brought it up, but how about Cornell?!! I'll forget about Columbia. They deserve it. Cornell is THE State University of New York, fer gawdsake. I mean, think the University of Texas, Nebraska, Ohio State, ... and they cannot put together an athletic program. They are Ivy League you say, and probably have impossible academic standards. Yes and no. Cornell consists of six "colleges." A student is accepted by an individual college and not the university as a whole. Three of those colleges are Ivy League. The other three are the State University of New York with state university admission standards and costs. You'd think that one coach or another would grasp the concept that some athletes can be wedged in among those state university enrollees. Was Ed Marinaro the end of it all? Cornell has such an incredible advantage over its fellow Ivy Leaguers that they should clean up every year and should currently be on the verge of being expelled from the fraternity by the other seven.

This thread really is tailor-made for Big Red, isn't it? xlolx

[NY Crusader 2010]

Bonarae brought it up, but how about Cornell?!! I'll forget about Columbia. They deserve it. Cornell is THE State University of New York, fer gawdsake. I mean, think the University of Texas, Nebraska, Ohio State, ... and they cannot put together an athletic program. They are Ivy League you say, and probably have impossible academic standards. Yes and no. Cornell consists of six "colleges." A student is accepted by an individual college and not the university as a whole. Three of those colleges are Ivy League. The other three are the State University of New York with state university admission standards and costs. You'd think that one coach or another would grasp the concept that some athletes can be wedged in among those state university enrollees. Was Ed Marinaro the end of it all? Cornell has such an incredible advantage over its fellow Ivy Leaguers that they should clean up every year and should currently be on the verge of being expelled from the fraternity by the other seven.

With regard to the SUNY / private school divide among Cornell's individual colleges, once accepted, students can transfer at will among the colleges. So a student could be accepted into the Agricultural College (which is SUNY) and freely transfer into the College of Arts & Sciences (their tuition would go up though). Because of this, I don't believe there is a huge gap in terms of HS achievement and standardized test scores in terms of earning acceptance into the individual colleges. And Cornell does have the reputation among the Ivies as being the most academically rigorous for undergrads (Dartmouth has a similar rep). If they had the need to "hide" athletes anywhere, it would probably be the hotel school, which is probably the best hospitality program in academia in the US, if not the world.

But, there are plenty of high-achieving football players out there, just ask the rest of the Ivy League. Just strange that Cornell can't seem to maintain any level of success given the fact that they have excelled in many other sports recently, not just in the IL but at a national level.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Stony Brook will get theirs, and relatively soon. The Seawolves' best teams came right at the end of their run in the Big South (don't remember if there was an auto-bid for them yet). I watched them absolutely roll over Army when they had that loaded backfield.

......2012........BEAT VILLANOVA 20-10....FIRST ROUND....'''LOST TA MONTANA STATE 16-10....IN DUH SECOND.......IFIN' YER REFERIN'.......TA CAA.....NO LUCK YET.......BRAWK!

[carney2]

With regard to the SUNY / private school divide among Cornell's individual colleges, once accepted, students can transfer at will among the colleges. So a student could be accepted into the Agricultural College (which is SUNY) and freely transfer into the College of Arts & Sciences (their tuition would go up though).

Theoretically, yes, but the facts speak otherwise. There is a hierarchy among the six colleges, with the College of Arts and Sciences at no. 1, the College of Engineering no. 2, etc. until you get to the three "SUNY" schools at the bottom. Transferring up the food chain is very difficult, and you must be "admitted" all over again. You need to have really achieved at your "lower level" school. Most New York residents are more than willing to be accepted by one of the "SUNY" colleges, pay the lower tuition for four years, sit in many of the same classes as the "Ivy" Cornellians, and graduate with a degree from Cornell. In many ways Cornell is unlike any other university in the country.

[clenz]

Lets see...

'96-Randy Moss...enough said
2000-2 point loss to Adrian Peterson and GSU at the height of their dynasty.
2004, 2008, 2009-great teams that weren't quite good enough to overcome the CAA in its zenith and great individual performances by Sidbury and Sczcur.
Yeah...not like UNI's playoff losses are to the OVC

2015: @ NDSU in the quarters...NDSU was national champion
2014: @ Illinois State in the 2nd round....ISUr was national runner up....UNI had beaten ISUr by 14 earlier in the season
2011: @ Montana in the quarters...you ever played a playoff game at WaGriz?
2010: Lehigh in first round...yeah that was embarassing
2008: Richmond in the semi-finals....Richmond won the national title...lost by 1...
2007: Delaware in the quarters...UD was national runner up
2005: App State in the title game....so...national champion
2003: @ Delaware in the quarters...UD won the title
2001: @ Montana in the semis...Montana won the title
1996: @ Marshall in the semis....Randy Moss, enough said
1995: @ Marshall in the quarters....I don't think NDSU fans get how good Marshall was during this time. These Marshal teams roll even NDSU
1994: @ Montana in the quarters....ever played a playoff game at WaGriz? UM wins the title in 94 if they don't play YSU in the semis
1993: @ Boston in first round...meh playoff loss
1992: Youngstown State in the semis...YSU won the title.
1991: @ Marshall in the quarters...again...Marshall


Are we sensing a pattern yet? Since 1991 UNIs playoff losses have come to the national champion 8 times, national runner up a couple. Only 2 of them are "head scratchers".

[Grizalltheway]

Yeah...not like UNI's playoff losses are to the OVC

2015: @ NDSU in the quarters...NDSU was national champion
2014: @ Illinois State in the 2nd round....ISUr was national runner up....UNI had beaten ISUr by 14 earlier in the season
2011: @ Montana in the quarters...you ever played a playoff game at WaGriz?
2010: Lehigh in first round...yeah that was embarassing
2008: Richmond in the semi-finals....Richmond won the national title...lost by 1...
2007: Delaware in the quarters...UD was national runner up
2005: App State in the title game....so...national champion
2003: @ Delaware in the quarters...UD won the title
2001: @ Montana in the semis...Montana won the title
1996: @ Marshall in the semis....Randy Moss, enough said
1995: @ Marshall in the quarters....I don't think NDSU fans get how good Marshall was during this time. These Marshal teams roll even NDSU
1994: @ Montana in the quarters....ever played a playoff game at WaGriz? UM wins the title in 94 if they don't play YSU in the semis
1993: @ Boston in first round...meh playoff loss
1992: Youngstown State in the semis...YSU won the title.
1991: @ Marshall in the quarters...again...Marshall


Are we sensing a pattern yet? Since 1991 UNIs playoff losses have come to the national champion 8 times, national runner up a couple. Only 2 of them are "head scratchers".

No, but Wofford and Coastal Carolina did.xembarrassedx

[clenz]

No, but Wofford and Coastal Carolina did.xembarrassedx
Point being, Montana doesn't lost at home - especially in the playoffs - all that often.

[JSUBison]

Yeah...not like UNI's playoff losses are to the OVC

2015: @ NDSU in the quarters...NDSU was national champion
2014: @ Illinois State in the 2nd round....ISUr was national runner up....UNI had beaten ISUr by 14 earlier in the season
2011: @ Montana in the quarters...you ever played a playoff game at WaGriz?
2010: Lehigh in first round...yeah that was embarassing
2008: Richmond in the semi-finals....Richmond won the national title...lost by 1...
2007: Delaware in the quarters...UD was national runner up
2005: App State in the title game....so...national champion
2003: @ Delaware in the quarters...UD won the title
2001: @ Montana in the semis...Montana won the title
1996: @ Marshall in the semis....Randy Moss, enough said
1995: @ Marshall in the quarters....I don't think NDSU fans get how good Marshall was during this time. These Marshal teams roll even NDSU
1994: @ Montana in the quarters....ever played a playoff game at WaGriz? UM wins the title in 94 if they don't play YSU in the semis
1993: @ Boston in first round...meh playoff loss
1992: Youngstown State in the semis...YSU won the title.
1991: @ Marshall in the quarters...again...Marshall


Are we sensing a pattern yet? Since 1991 UNIs playoff losses have come to the national champion 8 times, national runner up a couple. Only 2 of them are "head scratchers".

Woof. Is Farley the FCS equivalent of Bobby Cox?

[Grizalltheway]

Point being, Montana doesn't lost at home - especially in the playoffs - all that often.

True, just saying we aren't unbeatable. Cal Poly and UMass have also won in the playoffs there since 2000.

[grizband]

Yeah...not like UNI's playoff losses are to the OVC

2015: @ NDSU in the quarters...NDSU was national champion
2014: @ Illinois State in the 2nd round....ISUr was national runner up....UNI had beaten ISUr by 14 earlier in the season
2011: @ Montana in the quarters...you ever played a playoff game at WaGriz?
2010: Lehigh in first round...yeah that was embarassing
2008: Richmond in the semi-finals....Richmond won the national title...lost by 1...
2007: Delaware in the quarters...UD was national runner up
2005: App State in the title game....so...national champion
2003: @ Delaware in the quarters...UD won the title
2001: @ Montana in the semis...Montana won the title
1996: @ Marshall in the semis....Randy Moss, enough said
1995: @ Marshall in the quarters....I don't think NDSU fans get how good Marshall was during this time. These Marshal teams roll even NDSU
1994: @ Montana in the quarters....ever played a playoff game at WaGriz? UM wins the title in 94 if they don't play YSU in the semis
1993: @ Boston in first round...meh playoff loss
1992: Youngstown State in the semis...YSU won the title.
1991: @ Marshall in the quarters...again...Marshall


Are we sensing a pattern yet? Since 1991 UNIs playoff losses have come to the national champion 8 times, national runner up a couple. Only 2 of them are "head scratchers".
Wow, Clenz, I didn't realize UNI had lost to 8 eventual national champions in the playoffs!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[UNIFanSince1983]

Wow, Clenz, I didn't realize UNI had lost to 8 eventual national champions in the playoffs!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Clenz failed to mention 1987 and 1985 where both years we lost to the eventual National Champions as well. So 10 times we have.

[clenz]

Clenz failed to mention 1987 and 1985 where both years we lost to the eventual National Champions as well. So 10 times we have.
Yeah...I got sad about 1994 and had to push myself to 1990. I then had to stop

[Sader87]

Clenz failed to mention 1987 and 1985 where both years we lost to the eventual National Champions as well. So 10 times we have.

We didn't play UNI in 1987....

[PantherRob82]

We didn't play UNI in 1987....

We're talking about real championships. xlolx

[danefan]

Theoretically, yes, but the facts speak otherwise. There is a hierarchy among the six colleges, with the College of Arts and Sciences at no. 1, the College of Engineering no. 2, etc. until you get to the three "SUNY" schools at the bottom. Transferring up the food chain is very difficult, and you must be "admitted" all over again. You need to have really achieved at your "lower level" school. Most New York residents are more than willing to be accepted by one of the "SUNY" colleges, pay the lower tuition for four years, sit in many of the same classes as the "Ivy" Cornellians, and graduate with a degree from Cornell. In many ways Cornell is unlike any other university in the country.

Biggest crock of poop in higher ed as well. That state funding should be going to the real SUNY universities.

[ngineer]

Bonarae brought it up, but how about Cornell?!! I'll forget about Columbia. They deserve it. Cornell is THE State University of New York, fer gawdsake. I mean, think the University of Texas, Nebraska, Ohio State, ... and they cannot put together an athletic program. They are Ivy League you say, and probably have impossible academic standards. Yes and no. Cornell consists of six "colleges." A student is accepted by an individual college and not the university as a whole. Three of those colleges are Ivy League. The other three are the State University of New York with state university admission standards and costs. You'd think that one coach or another would grasp the concept that some athletes can be wedged in among those state university enrollees. Was Ed Marinaro the end of it all? Cornell has such an incredible advantage over its fellow Ivy Leaguers that they should clean up every year and should currently be on the verge of being expelled from the fraternity by the other seven.

Excellent point about the "Big" Red. The "use" of the State University system, and especially the Ag school has been the tool used by the wrestling program to become an elite power in the NCAA. Cornell has excellent engineering school, yet you rarely find a wrestler majoring in engineering..."takes too much time away from 'the room' ". Ithaca is a great town and Cornell's campus is very nice and picturesque. Why they haven't been able to have an above average football program is truly a head-scratcher.

[ngineer]

Each conference has at least one program that makes me shake my head:

NEC: Central Connecticut State - Seemed to win 7 or 8 games regularly before the NEC upped its scholarship commitment. Only public school in CT playing FCS football and now they are perennially behind the likes of STFU, Bob Morris and Wagner while SHU has stolen a lot of their in-state thunder.

PL: Tie between Holy Cross and Bucknell - The Crusaders appeared to finally be "back" soon after Coach Gilmore took over but to say we've spun our wheels since our 2009 championship would be giving us to much credit. Bucknell, every year, is supposed to be on the rise and a sleeper to be the most improved squad in the league. Every year except for 2014, they've disappointed. For the school that is the most supportive of men's basketball among it's PL brethren, they draw flies for football. This is even more sad considering they are in a very football-driven neck of the woods being an hour away from Penn State.

CAA: URI - Tremendous basketball following, it's almost like football is the retarded half brother. Plus, you'd think after they pulled back from downgrading to the NEC, that they'd up the commitment to compete in the CAA. At some point after going 1-10 every year, isn't someone going to rattle the cages in Kingtson?

Ivy: Cornell - As carney2 pointed out, they're the biggest school in the Ivy League by far and in theory have the laxest admissions standards (though by many accounts it's the easiest Ivy to get into and the hardest to graduate from). They've been nationally ranked within the last decade in hockey, lacrosse and men's basketball so it's not like they're Columbia and don't care about athletics in general.

Southland: A lot of newbies in this league but I seem to remember growing up that Northwestern State had some pretty good teams in the '90s - haven't seen much out of them lately.

SoCon: Furman - You'd have thought that when App State and GSU left that this would be the opportunity for them to step up and become the flagship. Instead, former doormats Chattanooga and Western Carolina have been battling it out for titles.

Big South: Liberty - A school that is clearly hungry for FBS should at least be consistently top-15 at our level right? They have how many playoff berths now? One?

MEAC: FAMU - Mentioned earlier in the thread. I remember the awesome teams they had in the late 90's. They were transitioning to I-A in 02/03 and decided to move back down but have barely been competitive since.

Big Sky: Northern Colorado - when they were Division II, they were just as good as the Dakota schools and the aforementioned UC Davis. Only FCS school in a pretty big state. DII CSU-Pueblo got a bigger FCS win a couple years ago than UNC has ever had when they beat SHSU.

MVFC: Missouri State - only scholarship FCS school in a state with just one FBS program and two major league media markets. And, their facilities that were posted earlier should be blowing potential recruits away!

SWAC: No one really stands out but Jackson State has been quiet for a while. Used to lead FCS in attendance every year and they've won just one of the last 15 conference championships, though they've won their division a bunch.

OVC: Again, no one stands out but Austin Peay has done nothing since upgrading from the Pioneer. Don't know who else to expect more from maybe other than Murray State -- success on the hardwood has not translated.

PFL: Davidson - if anyone sponsors Division I football merely to have it as a participation sport, it's them.

PL: Tie between Holy Cross and Bucknell - The Crusaders appeared to finally be "back" soon after Coach Gilmore took over but to say we've spun our wheels since our 2009 championship would be giving us to much credit. Bucknell, every year, is supposed to be on the rise and a sleeper to be the most improved squad in the league. Every year except for 2014, they've disappointed. For the school that is the most supportive of men's basketball among it's PL brethren, they draw flies for football. This is even more sad considering they are in a very football-driven neck of the woods being an hour away from Penn State.

I agree, especially with regard to Bucky. Haven't won the PL since 1996. They always seem to play hard, and have a decent defense, but for some reason have had major problems with creating offenses. Maybe being so close to State Penn has some kind of negative impact on their program's attendance. It is bad. When Lehigh plays out there we have at least as many fans in the stadium, which for a stadium with a track is pretty nice. The Bison have won the Presidents' Trophy more than any other PL school (the "all sports" annual award), excelling in basketball, track, swimming, lacrosse, baseball, etc, so why they cannot become more of a winner in football is a head-scratcher.

Holy Cross has had a bit more success than Bucknell in recent years, and there still is a slight glow from their halcyon days of Gordie Lockbaum & Co. and when they were tearing up the conference during their transition down with scholarship athletes their first four years in the League. Since then, they have been pretty much like Bucknell. Again, like all PL schools, they have a lot going for them in terms of academics, campus, etc. A few years ago Gilmore was supposedly drawing some fine recruits, but it seems to have hit the skids..

[ST_Lawson]

You give UNI, Illinois State, Indiana State or SIU those facilities and money of John Hammons backing them up and none of them are in the MVC/MVFC more than 3 years.

UNI becomes an instant MWC/AAC target....CUSA at the very worst
ISUb is in the MAC
ISUr is worst case MAC but likely CUSA, or AAC
SIU is worst case MAC but likely CUSA

MSU is prime recruiting area for all sports, massive donor pockets, foot print of CUSA, AAC, MWC and Sun Belt....yet....nothing

Hell, give Western those kind of resources and I think we get some serious looks from the MAC. I'd kill for their volleyball arena...to use as our freakin' basketball court...it'd still be an upgrade.
I knew about half of those (football, baseball, basketball, track/soccer), but didn't know about all the others.

[ST_Lawson]

2011: @ Montana in the quarters...you ever played a playoff game at WaGriz?
...
1994: @ Montana in the quarters....ever played a playoff game at WaGriz? ...

Yup: http://www.wiuathletics.com/fls/12000/stats/football/2003/UM-WIU.HTM

Although I agree, they're much easier to beat if you can get them out of that stadium: http://www.mvc.org/football/stats/98/wiu-12.htm

[Longhorn]

how about Delaware? KC Keeler stated when hired in 2002 that Delaware was the LSU of 1AA football, all the resources ...... it's been 6 years now since they made the playoffs and this year is on the bubble, just a receiver away from being a true force though..... but the WR never showed up

A WR away from being a "true force"? In what world? Forget the playoffs, UD will be very fortunate indeed to avoid a losing season this year.

UD's FB program has been in a decline for nearly a decade. Keefer was hit or miss in his last few years. His replacement as HC has been a disaster. Yet, the biggest issue impacting UD has been its failure to invest in its FB facilities. The UD administration has allowed a once vital program to decay, and while UD is a fine academic school, it's glory days in FB may be a thing of distant past memories mulled about by a declining fan base. It's sad really.

[katstrapper]

Sam Houston State continues to make me go hmmmmm.....

As a long time season ticket holder of Sam Houston St football, I just dont understand how a football program has a record of 62-24 since 2011, 2 Natl Championship appearances, 5 straight years in the playoffs, 4 of those 5 years in the final four and still yet this Athletic Dept has not found a way to capitalize on the success.

The football team is still playing in a stadium that was built in 1986 with the only major upgrades that have been ...

1. The playing surface has been replaced 4 times
2. A brand new video board
3. New chairback seats
4. Handrails in the aisles (only on one side of the stadium and they dont even go completely to the bottom)

[MSUDuo]

Is MSU good at tennis? I've never seen such a nice facility for that sport on a college campus, especially for a non-P5 school.

The tennis complex is not on our campus. Hammon's Field and the Killian Softball Complex (fairly new) is not on campus and doesn't belong to MSU either.

The track and field complex, field hockey, lacrosse, and soccer complex are brand new (last few years).

So yes, while we do have nice places to play many of them are new and we are beginning to see some benefits from having them.

You ask why we suck so bad? We pour so much money into football that it drains other sports.

I honestly wonder 2 things:

a) What would it be like without football putting such a drain on finances

or

b) What if we did move to FBS and played 2-3 pay games worth $1 million compared to the $350-450k we get right now.

I would also state that MSU's academic standards keep them from doing a lot of things compared to other MVFC and MVC schools. Ball at WIU could and would take current athletes that he couldn't at MSU. Same for Allen.

Also, our AD sucks big time. I blame him for 99% of the crap that goes on. Keeping Allen too long. Giving Lusk his extension that he didn't really earn

[clenz]

MSUs academic standards keep them down.

Now I've heard it all.

On campus or not those are your facilities. Those are your selling points. Those facilities are bragged about widely on your athletic website.

Where is MSU getting he money for the 44 extra scholarships? Full tuition coverage is 23,496 this year. That's over a million dollars in just scholarships. That is nearly double your pay day difference of FCS and FBS. Oh, then FBS coaching staffs are bigger. Oh and you pay Steckle WAY below FBS levels. So that goes up. Oh, the pressure for FCOA is also higher at the FBS level than the FCS level.

Realistically your budget is going up, a minimum, of 2 million per year.

I guess if you're going to suck you may as well "be a big boy and suck"

[clenz]

Oh ****. Did 2 seconds of Google work

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161002/225c9246f7cebe38d26b4fad7bbabed8.png
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161002/b35fba66ecf77742397a8f65e8ddc498.png

[clenz]

Well, ain't this some ****

Turns out, the only schools with a higher acceptance rate in the MVFC are SDSU and USD. I'd bet that has something to do with SD legislation as well regarding student from the state of SD


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161002/b9d9dca867d6dffb3063e5ef63be51f7.pnghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161002/2212d6f54ad946a7046f4f40184b6e4a.png
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[clenz]

I thought I'd look at the rest of the MVC. Turns out the only school with a higher acceptance rate is Wichita State, who has one rule for being accepted- Do you have a pulse

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161002/14e2ca362a1f2e54ccf2cf6a69d1276b.pnghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161002/65db37cbd949410c25f676b61c92fc96.png
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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161002/a93d5756fe8eda7112ca688c50f8a71f.png

[MSUDuo]

When you're right, you're right. Glad to know it was as easy as googling acceptance rates.

[clenz]

When you're right, you're right. Glad to know it was as easy as googling acceptance rates.

Turns out, going to a university that requires being able to do he smallest amount of research/work pays off occasionally

[clenz]

Oh, and we have MSUs baseball coach bragging about Hammmons Field and being quoted by an MVC employee mentioning how it will host the MVC tournament.

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[MSUDuo]

Oh, and we have MSUs baseball coach bragging about Hammmons Field and being quoted by an MVC employee mentioning how it will host the MVC tournament.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161002/b8f0fc2a0d7424fb42ca35e84b6fe7e8.png
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I'm glad they teach reading comprehension at UNI (or where ever you went to school). Not once did I say we didn't use them. I was simply replying to the guy who said "I've never seen such a nice facility for that sport on a college campus, especially for a non-P5 school."

Oh, and I had some free time on my hands so I learned what you taught me and used Google!

KU's acceptance rate? 93%
K-State's? 95%
Iowa State's? 86.9%
West Virginia's? 85.6%

So, according to Clenzy, MO State has tougher academic standards then some P5 schools. Something we can all be proud of.

[bonarae]

I'm afraid to admit that Harvard is also shooting itself in the foot as long as Murphy is on the sidelines. They are the ones that are sticking to the old-guard Ivy tradition in football, while the archrivals are going boldly with scheduling south of the Potomac and west of the Mississippi schools in the future. Murphy has to retire before any changes could happen to Harvard football. xsmhx

[bonarae]

FYI, to have clenz have a comparison:

Acceptance rates at PL football schools (percentages):
Bucknell - 24.8
Colgate - 28.7
Fordham - 44 xchinscratchx at the higher than average rate among its peers...
Georgetown - 16.4 xchinscratchx
Holy Cross - 37
Lafayette - 28.2
Lehigh - 25.5

Ivy League (yeah, single digits and the teens really):
Brown - 9
Columbia - 6
Cornell - 14
Dartmouth - 10.5
Harvard - 5.2
Penn - 9.4
Princeton - 6.5
Yale - 6.3

[ASU33]

Texas Southern. Located in one of the most talent rich areas of the country but the school has only had 8 seasons with 7+ wins in the school's history. Also Texas is football crazy but Texas Southern can't draw flies. They had games with fewer than 1,000 people in BBVA Compass Stadium which is a VERY nice facility. Crappy team playing at home in a stadium where there's 3x's as many empty orange seats than spectators.

[clenz]

I'm glad they teach reading comprehension at UNI (or where ever you went to school). Not once did I say we didn't use them. I was simply replying to the guy who said "I've never seen such a nice facility for that sport on a college campus, especially for a non-P5 school."

Oh, and I had some free time on my hands so I learned what you taught me and used Google!

KU's acceptance rate? 93%
K-State's? 95%
Iowa State's? 86.9%
West Virginia's? 85.6%

So, according to Clenzy, MO State has tougher academic standards then some P5 schools. Something we can all be proud of.

Your bitch ass excuse was "MSU can't get the athletes in that places like WIU can." Turns out, there is t a single student anywhere on WIUs campus that couldn't get into MSU.

Chances are there is maybe two dozen total players at USD and SDSU combined that couldn't get into MSU.

[clenz]

AAMOF here is your actual quote.

I would also state that MSU's academic standards keep them from doing a lot of things compared to other MVFC and MVC schools. Ball at WIU could and would take current athletes that he couldn't at MSU. Same for Allen
Tell me, what trick can WIU(who accepts students at a rate of nearly 20% less) get away with in terms of getting kids in that coaches at MSU can't?

[Twentysix]

Acceptance rate and admissions requirements aren't necessarily corollary. None of the mentioned schools in the MVFC have particularly high admission standards.

Schools have different applicant bases (though the applicant bases of the schools in the MVFC are probably pretty similar), and get vastly different numbers of applicants.

The student body at basically every MVFC school has an incoming high school GPA of 3.5, which is a typical, but not a stringent, admissions standard.

Being that you will be admitted to Missouri State with an 18 on the ACT, makes it pretty unlikely that athletes that aren't complete idiots couldn't get in. An 18 is a below average score. And MVFC schools, including Missouri State, all have alternative admissions for students who can't clear the low admissions bar.

University admission guidelines for all of these schools are available online. In my opinion the more confusing they make the guideline page, the lower the requirements actually are. In many cases the guidelines are kind of for show and can be bent really easily.

https://www.missouristate.edu/admissions/AdmissionRequirements.htm

[BigGoosie13]

Your bitch ass excuse was "MSU can't get the athletes in that places like WIU can." Turns out, there is t a single student anywhere on WIUs campus that couldn't get into MSU.

Chances are there is maybe two dozen total players at USD and SDSU combined that couldn't get into MSU.
This seems like quite the assertion, I mean SDSU is generally close to or leads the MVFC Honor Roll every year, with most of the kids being Pharmacy, Engineering, Economics, Biology/Pre-Med Majors with the usual spackling of a few History and PE Majors. One complaint that is starting to trickle on from fans is that they wish the football team, in particular, would take more flyers on risky kids that have higher talent upside. I really don't know how I feel about it, but I do know every school not named Stanford (and maybe the Ivy league?) has lower admission standards in general for athletes.

[BigGoosie13]

I am bored at work waiting for everybody to come in, so I did a quick search of Valley average composite ACT scores...

SDSU 23
USD 23
NDSU 24
UNI 23
WIU 21
ISU-B 19
ISU-R 24
MSU 23
YSU 21

[POD Knows]

I am bored at work waiting for everybody to come in, so I did a quick search of Valley average composite ACT scores...

SDSU 23
USD 23
NDSU 24
UNI 23
WIU 21
ISU-B 19
ISU-R 24
MSU 23
YSU 21

We're tied for #1!, we're tied for #1, we're tied for #1!!!!

Sorry

[PAllen]

FYI, to have clenz have a comparison:

Acceptance rates at PL football schools (percentages):
Bucknell - 24.8
Colgate - 28.7
Fordham - 44 xchinscratchx at the higher than average rate among its peers...
Georgetown - 16.4 xchinscratchx
Holy Cross - 37
Lafayette - 28.2
Lehigh - 25.5

Ivy League (yeah, single digits and the teens really):
Brown - 9
Columbia - 6
Cornell - 14
Dartmouth - 10.5
Harvard - 5.2
Penn - 9.4
Princeton - 6.5
Yale - 6.3

These stats are always apples and oranges though. A heck of a lot more people apply to the ivies than other schools of similar size. Same with comparing various state schools with lower acceptance rates. It is telling however when a large state school has a 95% acceptance rate.

[jacksfan29]

Like you, Northern Colorado is one I can't figure out. They were a damn good D2 program but have not been able to carry that success over. Their stadium is nice enough and Greely is near the major hubs of the Front Range.

The problem with UNC is that they moved up. In D2 they were the big dog on the Front Range, able to take any D2 level recruit they wanted. Once they went D1 suddenly the competition for recruits became more difficult. They are competing with Wyoming and CSU for a limited number of bodies able to play at the D1 level. They have a hard time winning a recruiting battle against schools in the MW. If you want to see what happened to UNC and why they went from being a power to an afterthought all you have to do is look south to Pueblo. CSU Pueblo are now king of D2 FB in the west, and nationally they are up there every year. They are a new program, started FB back up around the time UNC moved up. Pueblo are taking all those D2 recruits UNC used to get. The Front Range is loaded with D2 talent, D1 talent is more limited and UNC are finding that out the hard way.

[IndyTreeFan]

I am bored at work waiting for everybody to come in, so I did a quick search of Valley average composite ACT scores...

SDSU 23
USD 23
NDSU 24
UNI 23
WIU 21
ISU-B 19
ISU-R 24
MSU 23
YSU 21

Not that it would make much difference, but Indiana is an SAT state. Very few students going to ISU-B would take the ACT. I'm not saying our SAT scores would blow anyone away, but that ACT score could be skewed by the low number of people taking that test...

[BigGoosie13]

Not that it would make much difference, but Indiana is an SAT state. Very few students going to ISU-B would take the ACT. I'm not saying our SAT scores would blow anyone away, but that ACT score could be skewed by the low number of people taking that test...

Yeah I figured a school or two might use SAT scores, I just went with the ACT scores because that's what's big here in the Dakotas.

[clenz]

Not that it would make much difference, but Indiana is an SAT state. Very few students going to ISU-B would take the ACT. I'm not saying our SAT scores would blow anyone away, but that ACT score could be skewed by the low number of people taking that test...

I had no idea Indiana was a SAT state. I just assumed SATs were only coastal states.