FCS on the Rise - NDS up to a tie at #27 in the FBS poll and #1 in the FCS

[VictoryViking]

AP top 25 voters rewarded North Dakota State for stunning then-No. 11 Iowa on Saturday (http://www.ncaa.com/game/football/fbs/2016/09/17/north-dakota-st-iowa) by vaulting the Bison to unprecedented territory in the poll for a Football Championship Subdivision program.
The Bison — No. 1 in both FCS polls last week — received 74 points in the AP Top 25 poll released Sunday afternoon, which makes it 27th in the nation, tied with UCLA and just ahead of Boise State.


http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2016-09-19/fcs-football-north-dakota-state-cusp-history-ap-top-25

[walliver]

AP top 25 voters rewarded North Dakota State for stunning then-No. 11 Iowa on Saturday (http://www.ncaa.com/game/football/fbs/2016/09/17/north-dakota-st-iowa) by vaulting the Bison to unprecedented territory in the poll for a Football Championship Subdivision program.
The Bison — No. 1 in both FCS polls last week — received 74 points in the AP Top 25 poll released Sunday afternoon, which makes it 27th in the nation, tied with UCLA and just ahead of Boise State.


http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2016-09-19/fcs-football-north-dakota-state-cusp-history-ap-top-25


Unfortunately for NDSU, their FBS schedule is over and their SOS will fall (at least in the eyes of the pollsters).

[PantherRob82]

...or maybe more voters realize they could include them as others did and they move up. :D

[Hammerhead]

MVFC's Sagarin rating is higher than the Sun Belt and C-USA conferences. :)

[UNIFanSince1983]

...or maybe more voters realize they could include them as others did and they move up. :D

It all honesty it really depends on Iowa the rest of the way. If they keep winning outside of NDSU then you might see NDSU ranked (as long as they keep winning too). But if Iowa were to lay another egg NDSU has no shot.

[Grizalltheway]

MVFC's Sagarin rating is higher than the Sun Belt and C-USA conferences. :)

And you went 3-4 against the Big Fluffy. Geez, how bad ARE the Sun Belt and C-USA?

[dewey]

And you went 3-4 against the Big Fluffy. Geez, how bad ARE the Sun Belt and C-USA?

It is no surprise to me that the Big Sky and the MVFC are better than the Sun Belt and C-USA.

Dewey

[BadlandsGrizFan]

See I dont agree with this rating, I guess maybe you could look at it as the rest of the FBS is down this year??? My reasoning being, I think the last 2 NDSU teams were better than this current squad....but never as high on the polls.

Idk how to look at these things from a diffeent perspective.

[centennial]

And you went 3-4 against the Big Fluffy. Geez, how bad ARE the Sun Belt and C-USA?
It's the FBS wins that really boost the conference. MVFC has 3 if I remember correctly. Others are close enough vs FBS that we look like a G5 league to the computers. Also our lower end teams like USD, SIU, Indiana State are above average for the FCS.

[UNIFanSince1983]

See I dont agree with this rating, I guess maybe you could look at it as the rest of the FBS is down this year??? My reasoning being, I think the last 2 NDSU teams were better than this current squad....but never as high on the polls.

Idk how to look at these things from a diffeent perspective.

My humble opinion is that the 2013 team was the best of the bunch, but yeah was never as high ranked.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

See I dont agree with this rating, I guess maybe you could look at it as the rest of the FBS is down this year??? My reasoning being, I think the last 2 NDSU teams were better than this current squad....but never as high on the polls.

Idk how to look at these things from a diffeent perspective.


It is only the 3rd game. This Bison team has the potential to be just as good as those others. Potentially better defensively.

[AmsterBison]

See I dont agree with this rating, I guess maybe you could look at it as the rest of the FBS is down this year??? My reasoning being, I think the last 2 NDSU teams were better than this current squad....but never as high on the polls.

Idk how to look at these things from a diffeent perspective.

Part of getting NDSU into that poll depends on changing perceptions. We've seen it in all polls, there are teams that get high poll places based on reputation rather than by their play, and there are teams that get underrated because they haven't built up a reputation.

I'd contend that not ranking the 2016 team because the 2013 team was underrated would be compounding a mistake.

Lots of season to go though and one loss removes any possibility of NDSU being ranked.

[bisonboone11]

See I dont agree with this rating, I guess maybe you could look at it as the rest of the FBS is down this year??? My reasoning being, I think the last 2 NDSU teams were better than this current squad....but never as high on the polls.

Idk how to look at these things from a diffeent perspective.
I think the 2013 team is the only one that you could make a case for them deserving to be ranked higher. Last year, NDSU really didn't have much of a chance to get ranked because they had no FBS games on the schedule for the voters to look at as a reference, and I am told that they lost their first game, although I can't remember who that would've been to. xthumbsupx The previous year, they beat Iowa State, and although they are FBS, they are pathetic. Not much credit given by voters for beating them. IMO, through the first 3 games of the season, this team deserves to be ranked higher than any of the other teams though at the same point in those seasons. Starting off the season with 2 top 10 FCS teams, followed by a top 15 FBS team has been NDSU's toughest schedule by far of the championship seasons and maybe ever.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Part of getting NDSU into that poll depends on changing perceptions. We've seen it in all polls, there are teams that get high poll places based on reputation rather than by their play, and there are teams that get underrated because they haven't built up a reputation.

I'd contend that not ranking the 2016 team because the 2013 team was underrated would be compounding a mistake.

Lots of season to go though and one loss removes any possibility of NDSU being ranked.

Iowa tanking would also remove any chance, as that is the only one the AP voters are really looking at right now. If the Iowa win loses even a little luster then it is over. I would be willing to bet no matter what NDSU does for the rest of the year this will be the highest they get in the AP polls. Unless Iowa wins out and so does NDSU.

[thebootfitter]

It's the FBS wins that really boost the conference. MVFC has 3 if I remember correctly. Others are close enough vs FBS that we look like a G5 league to the computers. Also our lower end teams like USD, SIU, Indiana State are above average for the FCS.
This isn't necessarily true, although wins against FBS teams certainly don't hurt. It's really about the score differentials versus calculated expectations. Even if a MVFC team loses to an FBS team, they could boost their rating, as long as they perform better than expected on the scoreboard. For example, let's say SDSU was expected to lose by 30 to TCU, but they only lost by 19. This would actually improve their rating.

Similarly, if an MVFC team performs better against other FCS competition than expected, their ratings will improve. Note that any improvements in one team are also balanced by decreases for the other team they played.

Also interesting to note is that the way Sagarin calculates his conference ratings, he actually excludes the lowest and highest rated team in each conference and then does a weighted average of the rest, placing more weight on the teams closer to the median score than on the better or worse teams. Something like that. He explains it all on his page.

[Hammersmith]

Sag calculates his conference rankings like this:

8-team conference:

1. x1
2. x2
3. x3
4. x4
5. x4
6. x3
7. x2
8. x1

Add the results together and divide by 20.

Only small problem with Sag is that he does the FBS divisions separately. On BV, I combine the divisions and use the same overall method to rank the complete conferences.

[dewey]

They guys from Pardon the Interruption talk NDSU in the top 25 and also NDSU to the Big 12.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17591481

There is no way that NDSU would get an invite to the Big qw as the facilities are way too small, the media market is too small and other factors but what a dream that would be.

Dewey

[Twentysix]

They guys from Pardon the Interruption talk NDSU in the top 25 and also NDSU to the Big 12.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17591481

There is no way that NDSU would get an invite to the Big qw as the facilities are way too small, the media market is too small and other factors but what a dream that would be.

Dewey

The current big XII maybe, but it is the most realistic pipe-dream imo. The Big XII is probably the ****tiest all around P5 and the most willing to accept NDSU's market/academics/stadium/etc.

Totally agree though, it is completely unrealistic, but if for whatever reason NDSU ends up in a P5 some day way way down the road, it will probably be the Big XII.

[Professor Chaos]

15 years ago it was also would've been considered a dream that NDSU would have the #2 overall draft pick, win 5 straight 1AA national titles, host ESPN College Gameday, or beat a nationally top 15 ranked team.

I'm not saying NDSU will be in the Big 12 in 15 years but this program has made a living out of defying all rational expectations.

[Hammerhead]

Back when NDSU first moved up, I was afraid we would have years of mediocrity and be one of those schools that gets blown out by an AP top 20 team 63-10 or something like that.

[walliver]

For historical reference,
When App State beat Michigan, they were not eligible for the poll the first week.
Michigan lost again the next week, but App still got votes.
App lost the next week and never reappeared.

[Bisonator]

What's the highest ranked FBS team at the end of the season beaten by an FCS team?

[AmsterBison]

For historical reference,
When App State beat Michigan, they were not eligible for the poll the first week.
Michigan lost again the next week, but App still got votes.
App lost the next week and never reappeared.

Yeah, Michigan got destroyed by Oregon (39-7) the next week.

Iowa has Rutgers and Northwestern (who got smothered by Illinois State) which are two very winnable games. NDSU has Illinois State who is going to be quite a challenge.

While it would be cool if NDSU made an appearance in the poll, it's a sideshow because the odds that NDSU goes undefeated are very small.

[dewey]

What's the highest ranked FBS team at the end of the season beaten by an FCS team?

The 2007 Michigan team finished #18 in the final AP Poll with a record of 9-4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Michigan_Wolverines_football_team

The 2007 Central Michigan team finished NR in the final AP Poll with a record of 8-6 but won the MAC championship. NDSU beat them 44-14 on September 22.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Central_Michigan_Chippewas_football_team

The 2010 Virginia Tech team finished #16 in the final AP Poll with a record of 11-3. This team also won the 2010 ACC Championship game over Florida State 44-33.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Virginia_Tech_Hokies_football_team

The 2013 Kansas State team finished NR in the final AP Poll with a record of 8-5.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Kansas_State_Wildcats_football_team

This is just a few of the FCS wins over FBS teams that I could think of off the top of my head.

Dewey

[Professor Chaos]

What's the highest ranked FBS team at the end of the season beaten by an FCS team?


The 2007 Michigan team finished #18 in the final AP Poll with a record of 9-4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Michigan_Wolverines_football_team

The 2013 Kansas State team finished NR in the final AP Poll with a record of 8-5.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Kansas_State_Wildcats_football_team

Dewey
In 2010 after losing to JMU while ranked #13 Virginia Tech went on to win 11 straight games and the ACC title before losing to Stanford in the Orange Poll. They finished that year ranked #16/#15.

Oddly enough, despite that win over Virginia Tech, JMU finished 2010 6-5 and out of the FCS playoffs.

[Bisonator]

In 2010 after losing to JMU while ranked #13 Virginia Tech went on to win 11 straight games and the ACC title before losing to Stanford in the Orange Poll. They finished that year ranked #16/#15.

Oddly enough, despite that win over Virginia Tech, JMU finished 2010 6-5 and out of the FCS playoffs.
Thanks guys. That is odd.

[caribbeanhen]

when is the last time you have lost to an FBS team? if ever?

[UNIFanSince1983]

Down to 28 with 58 points this week. Probably just going to keep going down as weeks pass. Right or wrong voters will forget about NDSU.

[Twentysix]

when is the last time you have lost to an FBS team? if ever?

2009 I believe, 16-13 @ Wyoming. NDSU was 3-9 that year. Wyoming made a FG with 4 seconds left to get the win.

Also lost in 2006 @ Minnesota 10-9. Minnesota blocked NDSU's last second FG to secure the 10-9 win. IIRC that was NDSU's 3rd year of transition, not sure how many scholarships NDSU was at at that point.

[SeattleBobcat]

Down to 28 with 58 points this week. Probably just going to keep going down as weeks pass. Right or wrong voters will forget about NDSU.
IMO NDSU deserves to be ranked, problem is, they play nobody else worth mention for the rest of the year. They will be forgotten, sad but true.

[caribbeanhen]

2009 I believe, 16-13 @ Wyoming. NDSU was 3-9 that year. Wyoming made a FG with 4 seconds left to get the win.

Also lost in 2006 @ Minnesota 10-9. Minnesota blocked NDSU's last second FG to secure the 10-9 win. IIRC that was NDSU's 3rd year of transition, not sure how many scholarships NDSU was at at that point.

thanks 26, and speaking of Wyoming, why would old friend Bohl leave North Dakota State anyway? if he wanted to go big, Wyoming was a detour

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

thanks 26, and speaking of Wyoming, why would old friend Bohl leave North Dakota State anyway? if he wanted to go big, Wyoming was a detour

He could retire after this contract and he made substantially more money.

[caribbeanhen]

He could retire after this contract and he made substantially more money.

makes sense I guess, maybe you can bring him back for an encore in a few years when your going for #9

[BisonTru]

thanks 26, and speaking of Wyoming, why would old friend Bohl leave North Dakota State anyway? if he wanted to go big, Wyoming was a detour

3.6 million guaranteed, a little under a million a year depending on bonuses hit or not. If he does get Wyoming turned around he definitely deserves a big boy offer. That is one hell of a challenge.

[Bisonoline]

3.6 million guaranteed, a little under a million a year depending on bonuses hit or not. If he does get Wyoming turned around he definitely deserves a big boy offer. That is one hell of a challenge.

Plus he got a private jet for travel and recruiting. Since hes a pilot that could have been the deal breaker.

[caribbeanhen]

do you think he would want to play his old team right now? are you trying to schedule a game with Wyoming?, I think it would be kind of interesting but I'm sure he has no interest in playing the Bison....

[dewey]

do you think he would want to play his old team right now? are you trying to schedule a game with Wyoming?, I think it would be kind of interesting but I'm sure he has no interest in playing the Bison....

I would be shocked if he wanted anything to do with NDSU right now (no home sunglasses intended). Right now Bohl needs to win enough games to get to a bowl game and playing NDSU is dang near a certain loss. Bohl took the Wyoming for the money and if he wins there a big payday is looming. Plus from what I heard he loved the mountains, riding horseback, got a private plane and perhaps the challenge.

Bohl should always be remembered as the coach that lead NDSU into and out of the transistion, won 3 straight championships, numerous FBS games, from Jeff Kolpacks book was a great fundraiser and rebuilt NDSU into the machine it is right now.

Dewey

[Twentysix]

do you think he would want to play his old team right now? are you trying to schedule a game with Wyoming?, I think it would be kind of interesting but I'm sure he has no interest in playing the Bison....

Probably not. Most G5 schools can't hit our minimum anymore they want to pay like $250,000 and we destroy that with home gate after paying nearly that much to get a team to come to Fargo. I'm sure if Wyoming was offering $400,000-500,000 to play on a date that works for NDSU we would be all over it.