Undefeated takes aim at NCAA for HBCU postseason bans+takes shot at FCS playoff teams

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://theundefeated.com/features/hbcus-unfairly-penalized-by-ncaa-academic-and-graduation-standards/

[Professor Chaos]

Real courage means taking on the modern academic segregation that exists on too many teams in Division I.
IMO, real courage would be states taking a hard look at whether it's economically feasible to continue to operate some of these underfunded HBCUs. The author makes some good points but avoids that question which is the biggest of them all.

[REALBird]

"Ever since their founding in the seemingly interminable decades of segregation, HBCUs have been underfunded by state governments compared with donors to private, white-dominated institutions and flagship public universities."

I copied and removed most of the opinionated parts of the passage, but this happens to the UNI's, Illinois State's and other institutions not fortunate enough to be land grant schools as well. I would imagine HBCU's are funded less than their FCS peers by a significant margin, more so than we are to our flagship schools.

[UNIFanSince1983]

So then the real problem is funding by the state and not the NCAA enforcing the same rules on those schools as they do everyone else right?

It is normally easy to slam the NCAA for some silly ruling, but this one I do not feel is on the NCAA at all.

[Thumper 76]

"Ever since their founding in the seemingly interminable decades of segregation, HBCUs have been underfunded by state governments compared with donors to private, white-dominated institutions and flagship public universities."

I copied and removed most of the opinionated parts of the passage, but this happens to the UNI's, Illinois State's and other institutions not fortunate enough to be land grant schools as well. I would imagine HBCU's are funded less than their FCS peers by a significant margin, more so than we are to our flagship schools.

Well he does provide the amount spent per athlete in there....

[WestCoastAggie]

A&T does need to get all of its Land Grant money. It messed up we don't get it though.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

The only way the NCAA can show it is not imprisoned by that mentality is to crack the same whip on Texas and North Dakota State as it does on Southern and Howard. Any school that has APRs and GSRs below 50 percent for black players should be banned from the postseason. It is easy to punish black schools with no relative resources. Real courage means taking on the modern academic segregation that exists on too many teams in Division I.

That last line is so off base...I dont really agree with this article...like its interesting stats, but the intention of the article couldnt be more wrong....

What the NCAA said is correct (for once)...it would be asinine to divide teams into segregated race isssues.....of on average your graduating 70% of your players but your black athletes are only 50%....WTF is this guy talking about????

Those historically black schools are being punished because their team as a whole are failing to meet the standards.....

This article is way off base....its also looking at the wrong issue.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

He should probably stick to writing about Puffins...he seems to understand those better.....

His best work to date

Project Puffin: The Improbable Quest to Bring a Beloved Seabird Back to Egg Rock.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

And at what point does someone take personal responsibility for their own grad rate....anyone who has been around college athletics knows the university hold those guys hands so close all the way through college.....the more i think about this article the more of a joke it becomes.

[walliver]

Reading the entire article, it is interesting that that famous racist school, NDSU, should also be banned.

[AmsterBison]

It's not the NCAA's fault that students are coming to college unprepared for high school course work. The roots of that problem are local and don't involve the NCAA at all.

If black students are struggling at HBCUs and non-HBCUs, then I fail to see how he can conclude the HBCU underfunding is the problem. Seems more logical the problem lies elsewhere - in fact, I'd say it's obvious: Students who struggle are probably behind academically before they ever start college. Pretending this isn't the case and blaming the NCAA is unlikely to produce results.

And, btw, what is this Land Grant money I hear about? It was LAND Grant, not MONEY Grant.

[WileECoyote06]

It's a very interesting article and a slippery slope. Are HBCUs being held to a different standard? No, but is this the correct policy? I'm not sure if there is an available solution under the current system.

[Eight Legger]

The MEAC already opted out of the playoffs, so none of its teams could compete for a national championship anyway. Did this guy miss the memo on that?

[Mayville Bison]

The MEAC already opted out of the playoffs, so none of its teams could compete for a national championship anyway. Did this guy miss the memo on that?

Not completely true. They send their champ to the Celebration bowl, but any team not going to the celebration bowl is technically eligible for the FCS playoffs as an at-large pick.

[superman7515]

The MEAC already opted out of the playoffs, so none of its teams could compete for a national championship anyway. Did this guy miss the memo on that?


Not completely true. They send their champ to the Celebration bowl, but any team not going to the celebration bowl is technically eligible for the FCS playoffs as an at-large pick.

And of course, he wasn't talking about football only anyway, with the multiple references to basketball, track, and others in the article.

[putter]

How do you cry discrimination if you can't avoid a lot of the facts?

[REALBird]

It was classic cherry picking. Furthermore, HBCU's often promote their "support" of students and services they offer to help them succeed over PWI institutions.

Instead of trying to find select examples, or segregating rates by color, they should live up to what the openly promote. Provide the necessary services to help these athletes graduate.

[Eight Legger]

Not completely true. They send their champ to the Celebration bowl, but any team not going to the celebration bowl is technically eligible for the FCS playoffs as an at-large pick.

The MEAC does have a storied history of sending at-large teams to the playoffs. 😀

[WileECoyote06]

It was classic cherry picking. Furthermore, HBCU's often promote their "support" of students and services they offer to help them succeed over PWI institutions.

Instead of trying to find select examples, or segregating rates by color, they should live up to what the openly promote. Provide the necessary services to help these athletes graduate.

I agree we should provide as many services as needed. However, the point being raised is that other schools aren't helping black athletes graduate from college any better than HBCU's are. But HBCUs are being penalized more severely. It's a color-blind policy that has brought unintended consequences; similar to the Parent Plus Loan debacle under the Obama administration.

[Redbird007]

There are plenty of things to criticize the NCAA for that is well within their control but it is hard to point the finger at the NCAA for this issue. I wonder how the overall graduation rate of the athletes at these HBCU universities compares to their student population as a whole? Well I picked out Morgan State and Southern University since they were the two first HBCU's referenced. Their graduation rates for their university students as a whole was 34 and 32% so there is already a huge academic problem that exists and the universities are already below the NCAA guideline. As stated earlier the path for academic failure at the collegiate level likely began in grade school and progressed at every subsequent level. That said there is a real issue but having the NCAA fix it is wasted time.

[Redbird007]

I agree we should provide as many services as needed. However, the point being raised is that other schools aren't helping black athletes graduate from college any better than HBCU's are. But HBCUs are being penalized more severely. It's a color-blind policy that has brought unintended consequences; similar to the Parent Plus Loan debacle under the Obama administration.

The kids are unfortunately going to college ill prepared to succeed. Again point the finger at their elementary, grade school and high schools.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I agree we should provide as many services as needed. However, the point being raised is that other schools aren't helping black athletes graduate from college any better than HBCU's are. But HBCUs are being penalized more severely. It's a color-blind policy that has brought unintended consequences; similar to the Parent Plus Loan debacle under the Obama administration.

How are they being punished more severely? They are being punished the exact same as every other school. The graduation rate must be a certain percentage or you are being punished. It isn't like they are picking out the HBCU's and holding them to a different standard.

[nevadagriz]

I just want to make sure I get what he is saying? If Montana has say 12 african american athletes and say only 5 graduate however, 38 of the 41 caucasion athletes graduate then he wants the Team to be ineligable for post season play??

[Bisonoline]

The only way the NCAA can show it is not imprisoned by that mentality is to crack the same whip on Texas and North Dakota State as it does on Southern and Howard. Any school that has APRs and GSRs below 50 percent for black players should be banned from the postseason. It is easy to punish black schools with no relative resources. Real courage means taking on the modern academic segregation that exists on too many teams in Division I.

xrolleyesxxbawlingxxsmhx

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I agree we should provide as many services as needed. However, the point being raised is that other schools aren't helping black athletes graduate from college any better than HBCU's are. But HBCUs are being penalized more severely. It's a color-blind policy that has brought unintended consequences; similar to the Parent Plus Loan debacle under the Obama administration.


Just curious, how is this similar?

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Reading this pure **** article that was able to be somehow published has borderline ruined my day...makes me so mad I could punch a HBCU baby...

jk guys jk

[WileECoyote06]

Just curious, how is this similar?

This was part of a group of policy decisions that had the overall goal of slowing down the for-profit education industry. The new credit-worthiness guidelines lowered the approval rate so much that thousands of students were unable to return to school in the Fall of 2012. This devastated schools that were heavily dependent on tuition receipts, like many HBCUs and many small private institutions. Over 14,600 HBCU students were affected by the changes.

[WileECoyote06]

How are they being punished more severely? They are being punished the exact same as every other school. The graduation rate must be a certain percentage or you are being punished. It isn't like they are picking out the HBCU's and holding them to a different standard.

I think the writer questions whether the standard being imposed is the correct standard. As I said before it's a slippery slope.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This was part of a group of policy decisions that had the overall goal of slowing down the for-profit education industry. The new credit-worthiness guidelines lowered the approval rate so much that thousands of students were unable to return to school in the Fall of 2012. This devastated schools that were heavily dependent on tuition receipts, like many HBCUs and many small private institutions. Over 14,600 HBCU students were affected by the changes.

Equally as important, with fewer students suddenly able to enroll at these schools, the schools themselves saw a drastic money crunch as millions of dollars of tuition money suddenly were gone from the education budgets. And this was on top of the already-drastic underfunding of these schools.

[WileECoyote06]

Equally as important, with fewer students suddenly able to enroll at these schools, the schools themselves saw a drastic money crunch as millions of dollars of tuition money suddenly were gone from the education budgets. And this was on top of the already-drastic underfunding of these schools.

Estimated to be nearly 170 million dollars in lost revenue, and that was only HBCUs. It's estimated that for-profit institutions lost over 450 million dollars in revenue.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I think the writer questions whether the standard being imposed is the correct standard. As I said before it's a slippery slope.

Well the imposed standard he suggests which is all teams with 50% or less black graduation rate is not a great standard either. I mean in any given year UNI does not have many black basketball players. Say we had 3 black and 12 white players. Say 1 of the 3 black players graduates and 10 out of white players graduate. We get hit for an infraction. I don't think a small minority of your players should be able to fully screw over your program.

So really the author is arguing the wrong points. The focus needs to be finding a way to get the black graduation rates up across the board. Whether that is funding or giving the black athletes even more guidance than most of them already get.

[jsnow84]

Haven't seen this talked about, but another sad commentary on this situation is that HBCU schools as a whole don't have the academic standards/quality of most colleges.
Most of the problem is probably due to lack of a good education at lower levels. IMHO, this is due to lack of support from home and the fact that the guvmint schools, don't teach the skills required to get through college. Instead of the 3R's more attention is given to BS subjects like diversity, common core, racist social studies curriculum, etc. Sad.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As someone who's written about this before, I feel the APR is an inherently flawed system that disproportionately hits underfunded schools in general, many of whom are HBCUs.

The first thing to understand is that the idea of the APR is intended to be something that assures that the Texas', Ohio State's, etc. are graduating students that are making academic progress rather than kids simply collecting Pokemons during class and playing football on Saturdays. The inherent problem with this is that the NCAA took the outcome - a kid not making it in class - and made the patronizing assumption that the only reason an athlete, probably one who is black, can't make it in class is that he's playing Pokemon all day.

In fact, there are lots of reasons why kids leave school. Some of them are because of bad behavior, but not all. If a kid drops out to take care of his sick mom, or because they're on a partial scholarship or no scholarship and his family can't afford school anymore, is that a hit to the APR? You bet it is. Is it a hit to the APR because a kid turns pro after the NCAA Tournament? Of course not, because that would affect the eligibility of P5 players. We can't have that! xrolleyesx

The Texas' and Ohio State's of the world handle this by spending millions on a compliance department to hound the kids to get eligible and to make APR progress. UNC went as far as to set up bogus classes with zero academic standards in order to keep their students "eligible", another way, albeit completely immoral, to make the APR goals. Ironically, UNC completely disgraced not only their institution and the NCAA in general, yet hasn't been punished yet for anything, yet low-resource schools with a fraction of the money of those athletic departments are trying to juggle and manage to meet the same standards are getting hit with bans.

The bad behavior of some athletes really obscures the true issue, which is most kids, especially at the FCS level (which basically includes all HBCUs) are not on a full scholarship. Many, many of them are on partial scholarship and pay something to go, and also for the most part are first-in-the-family college students. The combination of partial scholarships and the financial pressure for the students to come up with the difference in tuition has a lot more to do with the lower graduation rates.

What really should be done is, if the NCAA feels like this is such a priority, they should take a lump sum from the NCAA Basketball TV package, give the schools a block grant and say, "You need to spend this on academic compliance." Don't give schools a one-size-fits-all rule that uses shockingly arbitrary numbers that don't link to the graduation rates of the schools themselves.

I'll say one more thing. Though I found the article interesting, I think the author did the cause a real disservice by making it a black/white issue. It won't be solved by splitting the victims by race. It will be solved by fixing the formula.

[walliver]

The core problem is that "stars" at the high school level get acceptable grades and graduate but are completely unprepared for college. In an ideal world, these players should go to a JuCo. Unfortunately, athletically-oriented schools look the other way and make sure the athletes take a minimal course-load of crip courses until their eligibility is used up. These players are "athletes", not "student-athletes" And the NCAA is more interested in allowing women with penises into female bathrooms, than assuring that athletes receive a meaningful education.

How many times do fans cringe when a star athlete gives a TV interview after a game?

What I fear most is that colleges will be dumbed down to improve graduation rates for athletes and other protected classes. A high school diploma is now practically worthless. Will a BA soon be just as worthless?

[WileECoyote06]

As someone who's written about this before, I feel the APR is an inherently flawed system that disproportionately hits underfunded schools in general, many of whom are HBCUs.

The first thing to understand is that the idea of the APR is intended to be something that assures that the Texas', Ohio State's, etc. are graduating students that are making academic progress rather than kids simply collecting Pokemons during class and playing football on Saturdays. The inherent problem with this is that the NCAA took the outcome - a kid not making it in class - and made the patronizing assumption that the only reason an athlete, probably one who is black, can't make it in class is that he's playing Pokemon all day.

In fact, there are lots of reasons why kids leave school. Some of them are because of bad behavior, but not all. If a kid drops out to take care of his sick mom, or because they're on a partial scholarship or no scholarship and his family can't afford school anymore, is that a hit to the APR? You bet it is. Is it a hit to the APR because a kid turns pro after the NCAA Tournament? Of course not, because that would affect the eligibility of P5 players. We can't have that! xrolleyesx

The Texas' and Ohio State's of the world handle this by spending millions on a compliance department to hound the kids to get eligible and to make APR progress. UNC went as far as to set up bogus classes with zero academic standards in order to keep their students "eligible", another way, albeit completely immoral, to make the APR goals. Ironically, UNC completely disgraced not only their institution and the NCAA in general, yet hasn't been punished yet for anything, yet low-resource schools with a fraction of the money of those athletic departments are trying to juggle and manage to meet the same standards are getting hit with bans.

The bad behavior of some athletes really obscures the true issue, which is most kids, especially at the FCS level (which basically includes all HBCUs) are not on a full scholarship. Many, many of them are on partial scholarship and pay something to go, and also for the most part are first-in-the-family college students. The combination of partial scholarships and the financial pressure for the students to come up with the difference in tuition has a lot more to do with the lower graduation rates.

What really should be done is, if the NCAA feels like this is such a priority, they should take a lump sum from the NCAA Basketball TV package, give the schools a block grant and say, "You need to spend this on academic compliance." Don't give schools a one-size-fits-all rule that uses shockingly arbitrary numbers that don't link to the graduation rates of the schools themselves.

I'll say one more thing. Though I found the article interesting, I think the author did the cause a real disservice by making it a black/white issue. It won't be solved by splitting the victims by race. It will be solved by fixing the formula.

Agree very strongly with both you and UNIfan.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

The core problem is that "stars" at the high school level get acceptable grades and graduate but are completely unprepared for college. In an ideal world, these players should go to a JuCo. Unfortunately, athletically-oriented schools look the other way and make sure the athletes take a minimal course-load of crip courses until their eligibility is used up. These players are "athletes", not "student-athletes" And the NCAA is more interested in allowing women with penises into female bathrooms, than assuring that athletes receive a meaningful education.

How many times do fans cringe when a star athlete gives a TV interview after a game?

What I fear most is that colleges will be dumbed down to improve graduation rates for athletes and other protected classes. A high school diploma is now practically worthless. Will a BA soon be just as worthless?


It already is.

[REALBird]

I agree we should provide as many services as needed. However, the point being raised is that other schools aren't helping black athletes graduate from college any better than HBCU's are. But HBCUs are being penalized more severely. It's a color-blind policy that has brought unintended consequences; similar to the Parent Plus Loan debacle under the Obama administration.

As others have noted there are two separate and distinct issues. The first being HBCU funding. That rests outside the auspices of the NCAA and is a non-sports related issue.

Second.....the APR focuses on graduation rates OVERALL. It was never intended to segregate based on race, nor was it intended to cast a spotlight on HBCU's. It just so happens that some HBCU's have fallen victim to APR rates, and 100% of their athletes are black. So the writer cherry picked some schools where Blacks don't graduate and said punish them too. Well those schools have APR's above 50% graduation rates so No!

The writer did shine light on a serious issue, and that is whether ALL schools are providing the appropriate academic services for these black athletes. The goal should be to raise those rates and graduate 100% of all athletes regardless of color, but there is some work to be done. Can't highlight the stats and then turn a blind eye.

Ultimately that responsibility still rests with the schools HBCU and Non-HBCU's to just do better by these kids, not the NCAA.

Not touching anything political. Nope!

[PantherRob82]

Second.....the APR focuses on graduation rates OVERALL. It was never intended to segregate based on race, nor was it intended to cast a spotlight on HBCU's. It just so happens that some HBCU's have fallen victim to APR rates, and 100% of their athletes are black. So the writer cherry picked some schools where Blacks don't graduate and said punish them too. Well those schools have APR's above 50% graduation rates so No!

The writer did shine light on a serious issue, and that is whether ALL schools are providing the appropriate academic services for these black athletes. The goal should be to raise those rates and graduate 100% of all athletes regardless of color, but there is some work to be done. Can't highlight the stats and then turn a blind eye.



100% of their athletes aren't black. Not to nitpick, but there are typically some white kids in at least football and basketball.

[REALBird]

The kids are unfortunately going to college ill prepared to succeed. Again point the finger at their elementary, grade school and high schools.

No, if schools pick kids unprepared for success then they are either using them for athletics, and should just say "we brought you here to play football." I hate this pretense that college athletics is pure. It's full of some of the scummiest people who exploit urban kids with talent.

If you accept the kid, you're also accepting the responsibility to educate them. If your providing scholarships, you have to focus on the Athletics as well as academics.

[REALBird]

100% of their athletes aren't black. Not to nitpick, but there are typically some white kids in at least football and basketball.

Well Rob,

The writer failed to highlight the graduation rates of those White athletes at HBCU's. More cherry picking IMHO. Curious if their rates are higher than blacks at HBCU's and how he would spin that stat!

[PantherRob82]

Well Rob,

The writer failed to highlight the graduation rates of those White athletes at HBCU's. More cherry picking IMHO. Curious if their rates are higher than blacks at HBCU's and how he would spin that stat!

I wonder if that stat is available.

[PantherRob82]

Based on a few articles that were not that great, I would assume Delaware State and Tennessee State have the highest number of white students and white athletes.

[ASU33]

Well Rob,

The writer failed to highlight the graduation rates of those White athletes at HBCU's. More cherry picking IMHO. Curious if their rates are higher than blacks at HBCU's and how he would spin that stat!

They're usually pretty high. The lone exception I can remember was Alcorn State's tennis team a few years ago who got sanctions.

[Sader87]

You have to admit though, those are some pretty shabby graduation rates for some of the powers that be (on the gridiron anyway) here in the FCS.

[Bisonoline]

As others have noted there are two separate and distinct issues. The first being HBCU funding. That rests outside the auspices of the NCAA and is a non-sports related issue.

Second.....the APR focuses on graduation rates OVERALL. It was never intended to segregate based on race, nor was it intended to cast a spotlight on HBCU's. It just so happens that some HBCU's have fallen victim to APR rates, and 100% of their athletes are black. So the writer cherry picked some schools where Blacks don't graduate and said punish them too. Well those schools have APR's above 50% graduation rates so No!

The writer did shine light on a serious issue, and that is whether ALL schools are providing the appropriate academic services for these black athletes. The goal should be to raise those rates and graduate 100% of all athletes regardless of color, but there is some work to be done. Can't highlight the stats and then turn a blind eye.

Ultimately that responsibility still rests with the schools HBCU and Non-HBCU's to just do better by these kids, not the NCAA.

Not touching anything political. Nope!

Damn I hate the race card being played again. This isnt on the NCAA or the schools. This 100% on the student athletes. GO TO CLASS. I found out I did a lot better when I WENT TO CLASS.

As a rule those who go to class dont fail.

[slycat]

Interesting article. I agree with most of you that there was some cherry picking going on but I think it is interesting to look at the black versus white graduation rates. A lot of this has to do with the schools where these kids come from. Many aren't prepared to go to college based on the education they got growing up. I can see his logic in looking at it as the black kids won us games but we failed them academically. However, it is a slippery slope to start breaking down these groups by race and pressing bans based on that.

[YoUDeeMan]

If you accept the kid, you're also accepting the responsibility to educate them. If your providing scholarships, you have to focus on the Athletics as well as academics.

*you're

Do the universities have a responsibility to educate ALL of the students they accept? xeyebrowx

At what point do those students have a responsibility to educate themselves? After all, isn't that what college is all about?

High school is mandatory. College isn't. One chooses to go to school...and the agreement is that you, the student, must grow up, get yourself to class, and learn. Plenty of people fail out, including kids that work long hours to pay for their education. Where is the help for them?

In the end, the article is a fluff piece that isn't well researched or written. The author picked stats that he believes supported his argument, and then proceeded to say that life is unfair. It was crappy, blame-game journalism, and it reflects a weakness in the author's mind and education.

[POD Knows]

*you're

Do the universities have a responsibility to educate ALL of the students they accept? xeyebrowx

At what point do those students have a responsibility to educate themselves? After all, isn't that what college is all about?

High school is mandatory. College isn't. One chooses to go to school...and the agreement is that you, the student, must grow up, get yourself to class, and learn. Plenty of people fail out, including kids that work long hours to pay for their education. Where is the help for them?

In the end, the article is a fluff piece that isn't well researched or written. The author picked stats that he believes supported his argument, and then proceeded to say that life is unfair. It was crappy, blame-game journalism, and it reflects a weakness in the author's mind and education.

Kudos, well said. xthumbsupx

[Franks Tanks]

I do feel for the HBCU's. Many of them, by nature of the school, attract a disproportionate number of at risk students. They are at risk academically due to being poorly prepared in high school, and have socio-economic issues to contend with at a greater rate. It's no surprise that the issues with the general student body carry over to the student-athletes. Perhaps the NCAA should give certain schools additional leeway, as they are catering to a group that may be unable to find educational opportunities elsewhere. Power 5 schools have several academic advisors assigned to single student athletes, and obviously that can't be done at HBCU's. Agree that maybe we should cut them some slack, but they should still be held accountable in some fashion for graduating a reasonably percentage of students.

[WestCoastAggie]

I do feel for the HBCU's. Many of them, by nature of the school, attract a disproportionate number of at risk students. They are at risk academically due to being poorly prepared in high school, and have socio-economic issues to contend with at a greater rate. It's no surprise that the issues with the general student body carry over to the student-athletes. Perhaps the NCAA should give certain schools additional leeway, as they are catering to a group that may be unable to find educational opportunities elsewhere. Power 5 schools have several academic advisors assigned to single student athletes, and obviously that can't be done at HBCU's. Agree that maybe we should cut them some slack, but they should still be held accountable in some fashion for graduating a reasonably percentage of students.

You're hitting the nail on the head sir.

[REALBird]

*you're

Do the universities have a responsibility to educate ALL of the students they accept? xeyebrowx

At what point do those students have a responsibility to educate themselves? After all, isn't that what college is all about?

High school is mandatory. College isn't. One chooses to go to school...and the agreement is that you, the student, must grow up, get yourself to class, and learn. Plenty of people fail out, including kids that work long hours to pay for their education. Where is the help for them?

In the end, the article is a fluff piece that isn't well researched or written. The author picked stats that he believes supported his argument, and then proceeded to say that life is unfair. It was crappy, blame-game journalism, and it reflects a weakness in the author's mind and education.

Thanks for the correction. Typing on a cell phone will produce some grammatical errors from time to time. LOL

College isn't mandatory, but Colleges don't willfully bend admissions standards for every kid either. Do you honestly think every kid accepted at a school is a "qualifier" in every sense of the word? I've talked with coaches at ISU who mentioned that a particular kid "may struggle" at ISU, or mentioned they aren't the "typical" kid we would accept based on academics. But winning is important and schools sometimes take a flyer or one, two, a dozen kids who really aren't college material. Do you place that blame on the kid? He just wants to play football, and some schools allow these kids to just be athletes. Do the bare minimum to stay eligible for 2-3 years before they go pro in Football or barely one year in basketball. Coach Cal's kids at Memphis and Kentucky rarely set foot in a class once the season were over because most knew they were going pro.

The onus is on BOTH parties to live up to their agreement, but I expect the Universities to uphold their academic standards over athletics. I've seen plenty of kids coming to me as a college counselor asking for "one more chance" and I've seen the other side as well.

That being said.....it was a poorly written article, and I disagree with the cherry picking. I just expect more from the Universities who tout education and flaunt athletics at the expense of ALL athletes.

[REALBird]

Damn I hate the race card being played again. This isnt on the NCAA or the schools. This 100% on the student athletes. GO TO CLASS. I found out I did a lot better when I WENT TO CLASS.

As a rule those who go to class dont fail.

Bisonoline,

The author played the race card, I hope you're not implying I'm doing the same?

If you were a student athlete you know some of your teammates who probably went to every class and succeeded, and there are probably some who never went to class. Those individuals deserve to fail regardless of race. But there are others who go to class, and still don't graduate.

As someone who has worked at both Illinois State and The University of Illinois I've seen coaches walking the hallways of my buildings, making sure their kids are in class. In some instances it didn't help, but in most cases it did.

I don't think every school has adequate academic assistance programs, tutors, additional services to identify learning disabilities that may exist, or for those kids they knew were "at risk" academically when they were recruited.

[walliver]

I've often wondered if football could be set up more like baseball. In baseball, good players have the option of attending college and playing for free but getting an education, or going to the minor leagues. Enrolling people in college who are not academically prepared is not beneficial to them. A minor league program, especially if educational aspects were added would be great for those players who are not academically inclined, or can't afford to go to college. How many players, especially in FCS or D2 or FBS walk-ons, are taking out student loans? If they don't graduate, how will they pay them back?

Unfortunately, I can see the NCAA fighting this tooth-and-nail trying to preserve their monopoly over young adult football.

[Professor]

A lot of assumptions going on here. Interesting read

[WileECoyote06]

Bisonoline,

The author played the race card, I hope you're not implying I'm doing the same?

If you were a student athlete you know some of your teammates who probably went to every class and succeeded, and there are probably some who never went to class. Those individuals deserve to fail regardless of race. But there are others who go to class, and still don't graduate.

As someone who has worked at both Illinois State and The University of Illinois I've seen coaches walking the hallways of my buildings, making sure their kids are in class. In some instances it didn't help, but in most cases it did.

I don't think every school has adequate academic assistance programs, tutors, additional services to identify learning disabilities that may exist, or for those kids they knew were "at risk" academically when they were recruited.

I figured you worked in higher education. xthumbsupx So do I.

[Panther88]

I do feel for the HBCU's. Many of them, by nature of the school, attract a disproportionate number of at risk students. They are at risk academically due to being poorly prepared in high school, and have socio-economic issues to contend with at a greater rate. It's no surprise that the issues with the general student body carry over to the student-athletes. Perhaps the NCAA should give certain schools additional leeway, as they are catering to a group that may be unable to find educational opportunities elsewhere. Power 5 schools have several academic advisors assigned to single student athletes, and obviously that can't be done at HBCU's. Agree that maybe we should cut them some slack, but they should still be held accountable in some fashion for graduating a reasonably percentage of students.

+1.

I cannot respond to some of the comments because there's not enough bandwidth on the www to hold my position.

[REALBird]

+1.

I cannot respond to some of the comments because there's not enough bandwidth on the www to hold my position.

Please share. I feel the comments by Franks about kids being "at risk" are very accurate. But I also know friends and family who attended HBCU's, some who got ACT scores in the single digits. To that I have to be honest and say, if you're going to take an "at risk" kid, be prepared to provide the services needed to help that at-risk kid succeed. Don't do it for the federal financial aid money. Don't do it for athletics. If you're offering an opportunity to kids who otherwise wouldn't get into schools with higher academic requirements, then give them the tools to make the most of that opportunity and succeed. But when the overall grad rates at some of these schools is in the 30-40% range (and don't take this as picking on HBCU's because I can name some non-HBCU's in a similar situation) then you're not really preparing anyone for success.

My only issue is when I hear my friends who are alums of HBCU's tout the "family" atmosphere. The "academic services" and "mentoring" they offer you to help you adjust and prepare you for success, that "other" schools don't give you. Maaaaaaaaan.......it's a great recruiting pitch. But I want to see them live up to it for their athletes as well as the general student body.

I don't believe the NCAA should offer anything resembling slack, in fact I just want the HBCU's to invest more in the way of advisors and compliance officers to help those kids achieve in the classroom. College isn't for everyone, and if you want to prove you belong, do what's necessary in the classroom or go to a community college. That sentiment goes for kids underachieving at Ohio State, Illinois State or Alabama State. But I welcome your thoughts, it's always nice to hear divergent opinions.

[Panther88]

Please share. I feel the comments by Franks about kids being "at risk" are very accurate. But I also know friends and family who attended HBCU's, some who got ACT scores in the single digits. To that I have to be honest and say, if you're going to take an "at risk" kid, be prepared to provide the services needed to help that at-risk kid succeed. Don't do it for the federal financial aid money. Don't do it for athletics. If you're offering an opportunity to kids who otherwise wouldn't get into schools with higher academic requirements, then give them the tools to make the most of that opportunity and succeed. But when the overall grad rates at some of these schools is in the 30-40% range (and don't take this as picking on HBCU's because I can name some non-HBCU's in a similar situation) then you're not really preparing anyone for success.

My only issue is when I hear my friends who are alums of HBCU's tout the "family" atmosphere. The "academic services" and "mentoring" they offer you to help you adjust and prepare you for success, that "other" schools don't give you. Maaaaaaaaan.......it's a great recruiting pitch. But I want to see them live up to it for their athletes as well as the general student body.

I don't believe the NCAA should offer anything resembling slack, in fact I just want the HBCU's to invest more in the way of advisors and compliance officers to help those kids achieve in the classroom. College isn't for everyone, and if you want to prove you belong, do what's necessary in the classroom or go to a community college. That sentiment goes for kids underachieving at Ohio State, Illinois State or Alabama State. But I welcome your thoughts, it's always nice to hear divergent opinions.

My opinion doesn't diverge from > 99.99% of what you just said, R-Bird. I agree.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Please share. I feel the comments by Franks about kids being "at risk" are very accurate. But I also know friends and family who attended HBCU's, some who got ACT scores in the single digits. To that I have to be honest and say, if you're going to take an "at risk" kid, be prepared to provide the services needed to help that at-risk kid succeed. Don't do it for the federal financial aid money. Don't do it for athletics. If you're offering an opportunity to kids who otherwise wouldn't get into schools with higher academic requirements, then give them the tools to make the most of that opportunity and succeed. But when the overall grad rates at some of these schools is in the 30-40% range (and don't take this as picking on HBCU's because I can name some non-HBCU's in a similar situation) then you're not really preparing anyone for success.

One might argue that statehouses across the nation have routinely denied HBCU's the financial support to provide those services at the proper level. Historically that's been true, but even more true today.

[Mr.Loco]

A&T does need to get all of its Land Grant money. It messed up we don't get it though.
NC A&T should look at SCSU not getting all their land grant money for a decade.

[YoUDeeMan]

Thanks for the correction. Typing on a cell phone will produce some grammatical errors from time to time. LOL

College isn't mandatory, but Colleges don't willfully bend admissions standards for every kid either. Do you honestly think every kid accepted at a school is a "qualifier" in every sense of the word? I've talked with coaches at ISU who mentioned that a particular kid "may struggle" at ISU, or mentioned they aren't the "typical" kid we would accept based on academics. But winning is important and schools sometimes take a flyer or one, two, a dozen kids who really aren't college material. Do you place that blame on the kid? He just wants to play football, and some schools allow these kids to just be athletes. Do the bare minimum to stay eligible for 2-3 years before they go pro in Football or barely one year in basketball. Coach Cal's kids at Memphis and Kentucky rarely set foot in a class once the season were over because most knew they were going pro.

The onus is on BOTH parties to live up to their agreement, but I expect the Universities to uphold their academic standards over athletics. I've seen plenty of kids coming to me as a college counselor asking for "one more chance" and I've seen the other side as well.

That being said.....it was a poorly written article, and I disagree with the cherry picking. I just expect more from the Universities who tout education and flaunt athletics at the expense of ALL athletes.

Hmmm...so you are saying that some schools cheat and let in unqualified students. Instead of holding those schools accountable for their transgression, you expect them to spend more money to fix their bad gamble...ON AN ATHLETE.

That is backwards thinking...and it is counter to accepting the student athlete as an actual student athlete. In addition, the regular students are harmed be the school letting in a sub-standard student because it lowers the overall graduation rate, and thus the reputation of the school as a higher place of learning.

The school should be punished for accepting the non-academic athlete in the first place. The current standards end up punishing the schools that reach for the non-student athlete. That, for a college sport, is how it should be. Otherwise, just bring in anyone and call it the mini-pros. But, at that point it wouldn't be COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY sports, would it?

[REALBird]

Hmmm...so you are saying that some schools cheat and let in unqualified students. Instead of holding those schools accountable for their transgression, you expect them to spend more money to fix their bad gamble...ON AN ATHLETE.

That is backwards thinking...and it is counter to accepting the student athlete as an actual student athlete. In addition, the regular students are harmed be the school letting in a sub-standard student because it lowers the overall graduation rate, and thus the reputation of the school as a higher place of learning.

The school should be punished for accepting the non-academic athlete in the first place. The current standards end up punishing the schools that reach for the non-student athlete. That, for a college sport, is how it should be. Otherwise, just bring in anyone and call it the mini-pros. But, at that point it wouldn't be COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY sports, would it?

1.) Yes. If they'll spend money to get kids to take a players ACT test (Derrick Rose). If you'll pay a tutor to write papers and help fix grades (North Carolina). If you'll turn a blind eye while kids sell memorabilia from Bowl games, and let booster provide vehicles (Ohio State). Seems the investment has already been made. If you can spend money to cheat, spend it on resources.

2.) Regular students aren't harmed as much as you think because colleges have traditionally accepted legacy students who are marginal or marginal students who play sports. When you're talking about 1-2 basketball players, or 3-4 legacies in a class of 3000 freshman students who notices?

3.) Totally agree. But the NCAA cherry picks here and turns a blind eye toward this kind of thing all the time. Thank God for Title IX and Women's athletics. It's likely what keeps schools like Alabama with its 46% graduation rate for Football/Basketball players above the APR and off the radar. At that point you have to hope the schools are going to be more ethical.....but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. LOL

[lucchesicourt]

It's easy to solve the graduation rate at any school. If you are not qualified to get into the school academically, then don't offer admission in the form of athletic scholarships. You are not qualified, go to a JC and get qualified. Admitting students based on athletics as the main need is ridiculous. Do what Stanford and the UC's do- not qualified academically- not admitted. Your school's graduation rate will surely get better.

[Panther88]

Hmmm...so you are saying that some schools cheat and let in unqualified students. Instead of holding those schools accountable for their transgression, you expect them to spend more money to fix their bad gamble...ON AN ATHLETE.

That is backwards thinking...and it is counter to accepting the student athlete as an actual student athlete. In addition, the regular students are harmed be the school letting in a sub-standard student because it lowers the overall graduation rate, and thus the reputation of the school as a higher place of learning.

The school should be punished for accepting the non-academic athlete in the first place. The current standards end up punishing the schools that reach for the non-student athlete. That, for a college sport, is how it should be. Otherwise, just bring in anyone and call it the mini-pros. But, at that point it wouldn't be COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY sports, would it?

As I read your response, I instantly thought of Oklahoma St's Dexter Manley, a certain LBer @ Ohio St [Klein I believe] w/ the "basket weaving" debacle, another LBer @ The Ohio St University and lack of classroom attendance yet "A" grades lol, et al prime examples of how schools useD athletic players for their financial gain. The ncaa had to step in and certainly do something about it (mercifully, APR).

I've been griping about this whole collegiate-academic-athletic ordeal since I was a teen because I saw the "game" that was being played, even @ the hs level. [use the athletic student and others stay employed off of their backs/exploited physical prowess]

[Bisonoline]

As I read your response, I instantly thought of Oklahoma St's Dexter Manley, a certain LBer @ Ohio St [Klein I believe] w/ the "basket weaving" debacle, another LBer @ The Ohio St University and lack of classroom attendance yet "A" grades lol, et al prime examples of how schools useD athletic players for their financial gain. The ncaa had to step in and certainly do something about it (mercifully, APR).

I've been griping about this whole collegiate-academic-athletic ordeal since I was a teen because I saw the "game" that was being played, even @ the hs level. [use the athletic student and others stay employed off of their backs/exploited physical prowess]

If a kid goes to college and doesnt take advantage of the educational opportunities available then its sits directly on that students shoulders.
I remember going to a coach my freshman year and telling him I was having a real problem in a certain class. He asked me what do I do when Im having a problem with a certain blocking technique. My response was -- work harder and stay after practice to work on it. He said thats exactly what I need to do in that class. No special treatment there. But it was damn good advice.

[Bluefish845]

If a kid goes to college and doesnt take advantage of the educational opportunities available then its sits directly on that students shoulders.
I remember going to a coach my freshman year and telling him I was having a real problem in a certain class. He asked me what do I do when Im having a problem with a certain blocking technique. My response was -- work harder and stay after practice to work on it. He said thats exactly what I need to do in that class. No special treatment there. But it was damn good advice.

That is a great lesson, however not every school handles it the same way. Having recently gone thru the recruiting process with my son there is definitely a wide range of approaches. For instance Rutgers has 2 floors of classrooms in the stadium and quite a few staff whose job is to insure that the kids are academically eligibleonce they are in the program. A question I would ask of each school was along the lines of I know you do everything to try and achieve success on the field but what will you do for my son if he struggles in the classroom ? Rutgers answer above, Holy Cross answer: not a damn thing if you are in the school you should be able to do the work. Most other school's answers were mostly along the lines of mandatory study hall for freshmen and anyone who falls below a certain gpa and weekly meetings with coaches to discuss grades and or problems with classes or professors. It seems most schools have a version of the banding that the Patriot league uses here are our guidelines however we are willing to take a flyer on a kid with grades that fall slightly below the range if he is an exceptional athlete. They are very selective on how they fill those spots typically.

[LeopardBall10]

I do feel for the HBCU's. Many of them, by nature of the school, attract a disproportionate number of at risk students. They are at risk academically due to being poorly prepared in high school, and have socio-economic issues to contend with at a greater rate. It's no surprise that the issues with the general student body carry over to the student-athletes. Perhaps the NCAA should give certain schools additional leeway, as they are catering to a group that may be unable to find educational opportunities elsewhere. Power 5 schools have several academic advisors assigned to single student athletes, and obviously that can't be done at HBCU's. Agree that maybe we should cut them some slack, but they should still be held accountable in some fashion for graduating a reasonably percentage of students.

See, I agree with what you are saying, 100% but disagree that they should have more leeway. There are some other posters who said, and I agree, that if you accept a student athlete you need to provide them with the opportunity to succeed academically. And, as you stated, these HBCU students largely need more support to have that opportunity. I don't think leeway is the answer, but possibly providing greater support would be. Obviously funding would help, but what about NCAA appointed Academic Advisors? What if, instead of just sanctioning a school you actually provide them with a service to make it better and actually help these young men graduate by providing them with tangible support from a source that doesn't drain additional resources from the school?

But that would require the NCAA to spend some of its profits to actually help the students they use, and we all know how quick they are to do that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wanted to drop this here, because it is the real reason why kids on partial scholarships are not "retained".

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/college-tuitions-rise-scholarships-fail-keep-pace-jeff-selingo?trk=eml-b2_content_ecosystem_digest-hero-22-null&midToken=AQEN9T3skd-Cww&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=2u02RM4S5w_7o1


When you look at the national statistics on college graduation rates, there are two trends that stand out.


The first is that there are many students who start college but never get their degree. More than 40 percent of students who start at a four-year college leave without a credential. What’s more worrisome is that the largest share of Americans with some college credit and no degree are young adults. There are some 12.5 million 20-somethings with college credit and no credential, according to the National Student Clearinghouse.


The second trend is that whether students graduate or drop out of college depends almost entirely on one factor: their parents’ income. Children from families who earn more than $90,000 a year have a 1 in 2 chance of getting a bachelor’s degree by age 24, but that falls to a 1 in 17 chance for those earning less than $35,000.

...

Even in an improving economy, how to pay for college is weighing on the minds of many American families. According to a recent survey, 29 percent of families said they were frequently or constantly stressed about education expenses, twice the rate of those who felt stressed about medical and housing expenses. Encouraging foundations and private donors to create and give to scholarships is an important step toward alleviating that stress and will greatly help in shrinking the growing economic divide that is pervasive throughout higher education.

Basically,
* FCS schools run on partial scholarships (all of them), NEC and HBCUs run on them more extensively than others

* When kids are attending school on a partial scholarship, these tuition/financial pressure headwinds are enormous, and thus many of these athletes fall in this 29% category, rather than FBS kids who are all by definition full scholarship or walk-ons

* The NCAA and APR treats both types of kids the same

Of course when implementing this program the NCAA put zero thought into these scenarios. But what's really a travesty is that the NCAA now has a decade of data that the whole model is flawed but is unwilling to do anything about it.

[larssc]

But that would require the NCAA to spend some of its profits to actually help the students they use, and we all know how quick they are to do that.

"The NCAA has awarded more than $4 million in grants to nine Division I schools to support academic programs that help student-athletes earn their degrees.

The recipients of the Accelerating Academic Success Program Comprehensive Grants (multi-year) include: Alcorn State University ($900,000), California State University, Bakersfield ($870,686), Hampton University ($675,000), Florida A&M University ($675,000) Delaware State University ($449,850) and North Carolina A&T State University ($277,284.38).
Recipients of Accelerated Academic Success Program Initiatives Grants (single year) include: California State University, Northridge ($100,000), Idaho State University ($8,333.33) and Texas Southern University ($80,608).
The grants help schools improve the academic success of their student-athletes. The goal is to support the school’s efforts to meet the requirements of the Division I Academic Performance Program, which was developed to ensure schools provide an environment that supports education while enhancing the ability of student-athletes to earn a degree.
Schools eligible to apply for the program are non-FBS Division I schools in the bottom 10 percent of resources as determined by per capita institutional expenditures, athletics department funding and Pell Grant aid."

That may be a tiny amount of the billion in revenue the NCAA takes in. But they are non-profit (so they say)

[LeopardBall10]

"The NCAA has awarded more than $4 million in grants to nine Division I schools to support academic programs that help student-athletes earn their degrees.

That may be a tiny amount of the billion in revenue the NCAA takes in. But they are non-profit (so they say)

It is true that they do award grants for academic programs, but having been in several NCAA compliance departments I can tell you that the money is not earmarked to actually go to any kind of support program. As long as it is used for academic purposes it is justified. This can mean paying for a students summer school tuition if he is in need, etc. But this is a far cry from actually providing the funding for additional support personnel at universities who struggle with graduation rates. If funding is the primary issue ( i.e. they have a much larger compliance or support program because they have more money and therefore have a better APR) then why not take a stand and actually help the disadvantaged students who do not receive the help they need to be successful.