UND Athletics has a 1.4M shortfall. President is looking at options.

[BisonTru]

Dear Campus Community:I want to make you aware that UND Athletics ended FY16 with a shortfall of approximately $1.4 million. This is a disappointment to me, and I am taking steps to address it.
Effective immediately, the chief financial officer for Athletics will now report directly to the Associate Vice President for Finance. This tightening of fiscal controls will benefit Athletics as well as the University.
Last week I announced Laurie Betting, Interim Vice President for Student Affairs, and Dana Harsell, Chair of University Senate, as co-chairs of a University planning process. As a companion to that process, I am asking a subgroup of the elected Intercollegiate Athletics Committee (IAC) to examine UND Athletics to make sure we have an athletics program that best fits the University of North Dakota in terms of a number of factors, including the sports we participate in, conference participation, the number of athletes that we serve, and the cost of the programs. The IAC serves as an advisory committee to University Senate and my office, making recommendations on matters pertaining to institutional control of the athletics program; the academic and financial integrity of intercollegiate athletics; the academic and personal well-being of student-athletes; gender equity; non-discrimination and diversity; and the accountability of the athletics program to the values and mission of the University.
This action is a continuation of a conversation started by Interim President Ed Schafer, who suggested that the University take a hard look at our athletics program with an eye to ensuring we have the right number and mix of Division I athletic programs. I want to conclude that process by the end of the calendar year.
I want to be clear: I am pro-Athletics. I am proud of our student-athletes, who are successful as athletes and who perform well in the classroom. They are also engaged in the community, contributing more than 9,500 hours of service in FY16. But I also want to be clear that we need to make sure we have Athletics program that is the right fit for the University. I appreciate the committee helping us with this important task.

Conference change? Drop some sports? Curious what the UND fans and the rest of the community thinks.

[clenz]

Are we sure that budget issue directly relates to Big Sky travel? Sure, for football it would save some money....some....but would it really for other sports? You're still sending teams to Colorado, Indiana multiple times, Oklahoma, Illinois, Nebraska etc... for every sport for conference play.

The old saying is "once you're on a plane your on a plane and the costs don't vary that much"

[jacksfan29]

Are we sure that budget issue directly relates to Big Sky travel? Sure, for football it would save some money....some....but would it really for other sports? You're still sending teams to Colorado, Indiana multiple times, Oklahoma, Illinois, Nebraska etc... for every sport for conference play.

The old saying is "once you're on a plane your on a plane and the costs don't vary that much"

But you also have bus trips down I29 for a lot of games. Eliminate trips to California, Arizona, Idaho, Washington for your Olympic sports and replace them with bus trips to Fargo, Brookings, Vermillion and Omaha, the money savings is real. It wasn't just that USD wanted to be with SDSU and NDSU, the cost to join the BSC would have put a hurt on the athletic department in Vermillion.

I'm also almost positive the Summit is more flexible with our core sports which would allow them to drop a few to clean up their mess.

That said, I voted stay in the BSC. Stability in the Summit would be nice but I see no way that the eastern MVFC schools vote UND in. Their only hope than would be a BSC (FB) Summit Olympic hybrid.

[Twentysix]

Easy, drop to DII, save money, keep playing DI hockey.

[RootinFerDukes]

It sounds like a precursor letter to get the university community ready for the inevitable cut of some athletic programs to cut costs. It's unfortunate but if it's that or raise involuntary student fees even further to keep non-revenue sports, it may be necessary.
Some JMU fans want to see us cut our excessive spending if we're not going to make sure we get a seat at the fbs table.

JMU cut many sports in 2006 to become title ix compliant and many were upset, some scholarship athletes were displaced. It was sad but in hindsight I understand it's necessity.

[taper]

This has been festering for a long time and the previous president basically ignored everything. They've already dropped men's baseball and golf, and need more cuts. The easiest answer is pull an Omaha and drop football to fund their remaining programs, and if they don't make the playoffs this fall that has a small but real possibility to be on the table. Joining the Summit/MVFC seems logical, but the Summit needs baseball teams more than anything. Dropping that doesn't leave them very attractive, probably not enough to convince the eastern teams to let them in.

So if they cut 2 men's sports with no corresponding women's cuts, were they not compliant with Title IX before or not compliant now? Maybe women's hockey is next...

[POD Knows]

This has been festering for a long time and the previous president basically ignored everything. They've already dropped men's baseball and golf, and need more cuts. The easiest answer is pull an Omaha and drop football to fund their remaining programs, and if they don't make the playoffs this fall that has a small but real possibility to be on the table. Joining the Summit/MVFC seems logical, but the Summit needs baseball teams more than anything. Dropping that doesn't leave them very attractive, probably not enough to convince the eastern teams to let them in.

So if they cut 2 men's sports with no corresponding women's cuts, were they not compliant with Title IX before or not compliant now? Maybe women's hockey is next...

They still have swimming and diving, both men's and women's, and I doubt that these are core sports. Those will be the first to go. I wonder if they would be in Title IX compliance if they dropped Women's Hockey and didn't touch any other men's sports?

[Laker]

Geographically it makes so much sense for them to go Summit/MVFC. You have the old NCC rivals. You can travel down I-29. Not only can UND fans go on the road, they will also get MVFC fans to go to Grand Forks. I doubt if that happens to a great extent in the Big Sky for them.

Unfortunately they dropped baseball.

[Bisonator]

They have to stay in the BSC because siouxvolley is still expecting them to go FBS. xlolx

[PantherRob82]

I voted stay in the Big Sky, because we don't need that trainwreck of a **** show. :D

[POD Knows]

I voted stay in the Big Sky, because we don't need that trainwreck of a **** show. :D

I voted for them to say in the Big Sky but it would be kind of nice to have creampuff conference game in addition to MSU.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

They have to stay in the BSC because siouxvolley is still expecting them to go FBS. xlolx

In 2020 the Big Sky is going to the WAC. I love how they keep saying it over and over.xlolx

[Thumper 76]

In 2020 the Big Sky is going to the WAC. I love how they keep saying it over and over.xlolx

They have some wildly delusional people over there. Not all of them, but there's enough.

[Thumper 76]

As to the poll they should petition the Summit/MVFC but I don't think there's any reason the MVFC should let them in. You already have UNI/SDSU getting screwed in the schedule, it would get really unbalanced if the eastern schools got to rotate off two western schools. The western teams would play the other two of the top three teams (constantly) while the eastern schools would only have ISUr every year.

[Schism55]

Easy, drop to DII, save money, keep playing DI hockey.
This is probably the most sensible idea, which means it has zero chance of happening.
BTW anyone know how many millions in lawyer's fees they paid fighting the name change?

[IBleedYellow]

They won't ever join the Summit or MVFC.

Why? Because their egos won't let them. When they joined the Big Sky they rubbed it in SDSU and NDSU faces because they accomplished what we "couldn't."



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[Bisonwinagn]

This is probably the most sensible idea, which means it has zero chance of happening.
BTW anyone know how many millions in lawyer's fees they paid fighting the name change?


They should drop all programs related to Indian studies and it would save them enough to keep the sports. This would also comply with the NCAA's demand that all schools whitewash all references to Native Americans.

[Schism55]

They won't ever join the Summit or MVFC.

Why? Because their egos won't let them. When they joined the Big Sky they rubbed it in SDSU and NDSU faces because they accomplished what we "couldn't."

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Fair point sir.
/tip o' the cap

[Mattymc727]

This is a very easy problem to solve without having to change conferences guys. This isnt the first school to have a shortfall. Cut some fringe sports, get rid of office fluff, and youre fine.

http://www.seacoastonline.com/article/20060201/News/302019994

[Gil Dobie]

How much of the budget was baseball taking up?

[F'N Hawks]

You guys could probably go back to Bisonville and read the exact same stuff you just wrote there. Deep thinkers in this thread.

[UNDColorado]

Baseball only took up a handful of scholarships so cutting that didn't really do much.

Womens hockey takes up over $2,000,000 dollars per year. The arena is empty so they are not exactly making any money off of them either. I think this a money pit and the admin needs to take a hard look at it.

Then there is swimming and diving and softball. Right now we have 19 sports and for reference Texas has 18...who has an enormous athletic budget. A couple sports need to go and people with complain but tough **** I guess.

Does NDSU have something like 17 sports?

[IBleedYellow]

Baseball only took up a handful of scholarships so cutting that didn't really do much.

Womens hockey takes up over $2,000,000 dollars per year. The arena is empty so they are not exactly making any money off of them either. I think this a money pit and the admin needs to take a hard look at it.

Then there is swimming and diving and softball. Right now we have 19 sports and for reference Texas has 18...who has an enormous athletic budget. A couple sports need to go and people with complain but tough **** I guess.

Does NDSU have something like 17 sports?


NDSU has the bare minimum in DI sports, because we realized that if we want to fund everything well, we're going to have to do it at the lowest amount.

Bolded Reply: You would piss of a lot of big donors if you cut this sport, but how many scholarships is it? Will you have to cut more men's sports also?

You guys didn't even fund FCOA yet, right? Still have to do that, too.

xrotatehx

[UNIFanSince1983]

Womens hockey takes up over $2,000,000 dollars per year. The arena is empty so they are not exactly making any money off of them either. I think this a money pit and the admin needs to take a hard look at it.


The question then becomes what Men's sports get cut to make up for the loss of Women's scholarships if you cut Women's Hockey?

[F'N Hawks]

The question then becomes what Men's sports get cut to make up for the loss of Women's scholarships if you cut Women's Hockey?

Since you don't know UND's situation I will clear it up. UND is already slanted to the Women's side in Title IX. The general population is around 53-47 or 52-48 Men. They can easily cut their 20+ scholarships and reallocate a handful of them to other Women's sports that are underfunded.

[F'N Hawks]

NDSU has the bare minimum in DI sports, because we realized that if we want to fund everything well, we're going to have to do it at the lowest amount.

Bolded Reply: You would piss of a lot of big donors if you cut this sport, but how many scholarships is it? Will you have to cut more men's sports also?

You guys didn't even fund FCOA yet, right? Still have to do that, too.

xrotatehx


Women's hockey has ZERO big donors. FCOA is already accounted for in the budget, don't worry. Maybe if UND took from the dining or residence hall budget and gave it to athletics they wouldn't be in this situation?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Dear Campus Community:I want to make you aware that UND Athletics ended FY16 with a shortfall of approximately $1.4 million. This is a disappointment to me, and I am taking steps to address it.

This "shortfall" could just as easily be fixed by accounting tricks, increasing student fees, finding a wealthy donor or two, moving institutional money around rather than dropping sports or changing conference affiliation.

Main point being, the $1.4 million is almost certainly a generated number in an effort to cut costs in athletics. Or solicit a deep-pocketed benefactor.

[F'N Hawks]

This "shortfall" could just as easily be fixed by accounting tricks, increasing student fees, finding a wealthy donor or two, moving institutional money around rather than dropping sports or changing conference affiliation.

Main point being, the $1.4 million is almost certainly a generated number in an effort to cut costs in athletics. Or solicit a deep-pocketed benefactor.


The 'tricks' are what got them a new President. The old guy was pretty good at moving around numbers. Time to cut sports. 19 is too many.

[Bison56]

You guys could probably go back to Bisonville and read the exact same stuff you just wrote there. Deep thinkers in this thread.

You mad?

[REALBird]

$1.4 million shortfall.....what did they spend on the study to change the mascot?

[IBleedYellow]

$1.4 million shortfall.....what did they spend on the study to change the mascot?

xwhistlex

[grizband]

Montana athletics had a $1 million shortfall in the early 2000s, and were able to rectify without cutting any sports. Tightening of the belts, less travel, and a couple FBS pay days helped right the ship.

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[F'N Hawks]

Montana athletics had a $1 million shortfall in the early 2000s, and were able to rectify without cutting any sports. Tightening of the belts, less travel, and a couple FBS pay days helped right the ship.

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Montana also only has 15 athletic programs, correct?

[RootinFerDukes]

A couple of FBS paydays are drying up though. The Big 10 won't schedule FCS moving forward and the ACC has unofficially also started doing that with the formation of their new ACC network launching in 2019 with a digital streaming network starting this month. ESPN has said they want more marquee matchups between P5 schools, so that would mean FCS games will be the first on the chopping block out of conference. Even G5 schools will have a harder time scheduling ACC schools and ODU's games against ACC schools are currently up in the air as to whether they'll be played or rescheduled.

[Grizalltheway]

Montana athletics had a $1 million shortfall in the early 2000s, and were able to rectify without cutting any sports. Tightening of the belts, less travel, and a couple FBS pay days helped right the ship.

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Also charging 5 bucks for student tickets for a few years. Bastards!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A couple of FBS paydays are drying up though. The Big 10 won't schedule FCS moving forward and the ACC has unofficially also started doing that with the formation of their new ACC network launching in 2019 with a digital streaming network starting this month. ESPN has said they want more marquee matchups between P5 schools, so that would mean FCS games will be the first on the chopping block out of conference. Even G5 schools will have a harder time scheduling ACC schools and ODU's games against ACC schools are currently up in the air as to whether they'll be played or rescheduled.

No. Expensive home-and-homes with G5 schools will be the first to go, to be replaced with FCS-like one-and-dones.

[geaux_sioux]

This "shortfall" could just as easily be fixed by accounting tricks, increasing student fees, finding a wealthy donor or two, moving institutional money around rather than dropping sports or changing conference affiliation.

Main point being, the $1.4 million is almost certainly a generated number in an effort to cut costs in athletics. Or solicit a deep-pocketed benefactor.
Not exactly, the student senate blocked a fees increase.

[geaux_sioux]

The solution is to drop women hockey and use those scholarships to boost other women sports that people actually care about. It would piss off some donors no doubt but as long as there is football and mens hockey the big donors will be happy. They could use the extra money from cutting women hockey to make both basketball programs more legit. It would be a win win for UND they just need someone with enough balls to swing the axe.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not exactly, the student senate blocked a fees increase.

Interesting and important tidbit that gives some perspective on this "shortfall".

"You want a football program, but don't want to increase student fees? Well, we'll just have to cut sports then...."

[F'N Hawks]

Interesting and important tidbit that gives some perspective on this "shortfall".

"You want a football program, but don't want to increase student fees? Well, we'll just have to cut sports then...."


UND has 19 sports programs. Two of them are extremely expensive - Hockey. One of the hockey programs is completely worthless. The other is a cash cow.

To sum it up: Too many sports, not enough money. Get to a number that is manageable for the size of your athletic department.

[grizband]

Montana also only has 15 athletic programs, correct?
Around that, one of which was added since the deficit.

Not saying UND won't have too drop a sport, but should be the final option, after others are exhausted. Just my opinion, without knowing all the details.

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[geaux_sioux]

Interesting and important tidbit that gives some perspective on this "shortfall".

"You want a football program, but don't want to increase student fees? Well, we'll just have to cut sports then...."
We need to cut sports regardless of student fee increases. We should only keep sports that are fully funded and are given the opportunity to succeed. Womens hockey is a sport that nobody attends and has an absolutely massive cost. Cut that sport and maybe one more and we will be fine. Our students aren't completely opposed to fee increases as they funded our awesome wellness center but they will not partake in being used as a financial band aid when it obviously won't provide a permanent fix.

[grizband]

We need to cut sports regardless of student fee increases. We should only keep sports that are fully funded and are given the opportunity to succeed. Womens hockey is a sport that nobody attends and has an absolutely massive cost. Cut that sport and maybe one more and we will be fine. Our students aren't completely opposed to fee increases as they funded our awesome wellness center but they will not partake in being used as a financial band aid when it obviously won't provide a permanent fix.
So...you're keeping football and hockey?

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[geaux_sioux]

So...you're keeping football and hockey?

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Those aren't going anywhere. The football team has too many powerful alumni to cut. Mens hockey football mens/womens basketball and volleyball should be the big priorities for UND. They all have great potential. Track and field(and cross country) now also has great potential thanks to the HPC. Our softball program is a joke so they should either pump some money into it or cut it. Womens tennis is a joke. Womens hockey needs to go. And women golf is a joke. Womens hockey can boost a lot of these ailing programs. Also football will start building revenue back up since we don't suck anymore and the fans support the coach.

[grizband]

Those aren't going anywhere. The football team has too many powerful alumni to cut. Mens hockey football mens/womens basketball and volleyball should be the big priorities for UND. They all have great potential. Track and field(and cross country) now also has great potential thanks to the HPC. Our softball program is a joke so they should either pump some money into it or cut it. Womens tennis is a joke. Womens hockey needs to go. And women golf is a joke. Womens hockey can boost a lot of these ailing programs. Also football will start building revenue back up since we don't suck anymore and the fans support the coach.
My comment was in reference to your point about only keeping sports that are solvent. It's probably fewer than you think...

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[AmsterBison]

Women's hockey has ZERO big donors. FCOA is already accounted for in the budget, don't worry. Maybe if UND took from the dining or residence hall budget and gave it to athletics they wouldn't be in this situation?

Um, well, it wasn't accounted for in the 2016 budget, if that's what you mean.

I'm sure NDSU will have some hard decisions too. The next round of budgets cuts are going to get pretty close to the bone for both schools.

Back to UND's options: If UND wants to join the Summit, then cutting baseball was a horrible move. The Summit League would have to be willing to risk destabilizing itself to bring in a school that offers nothing but greater travel costs for its oldest members. Maybe the Summit could add UMKC as well as UND to hedge against the possibility of alienating the Indiana schools, Western Illinois, ORU, and/or Denver.

On the plus side, the Big Sky will almost certainly waive UND's exit fee (if there is one.)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

My comment was in reference to your point about only keeping sports that are solvent. It's probably fewer than you think...

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Well sure but you gotta stop the bleeding and the best place to start is the spot bleeding the most. Other than the Golf which I think is one that BSC would want em' to keep...not up on that one...but the others seems like a good way to get a bit more financially health and as they say to also shore up some other areas in the AD.

But for sure, not a lot of money makeers in the Athletic Dept.

Good lord that women's Hockey sounds like a bad idea at even 1/4 that price.

[F'N Hawks]

Good lord that women's Hockey sounds like a bad idea at even 1/4 that price.

They check in at around $2,000,000 dollars a year. I would love to hear of another non-revenue program that spends that much.

Every sport at UND loses money but Men's Hockey. But Women's Hockey takes their entire budget and gives literally nothing back.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

They check in at around $2,000,000 dollars a year. I would love to hear of another non-revenue program that spends that much.

Every sport at UND loses money but Men's Hockey. But Women's Hockey takes their entire budget and gives literally nothing back.

Yeah, that is really crazy man. Get that noose off your neck and better off is in your future man.

[RootinFerDukes]

No. Expensive home-and-homes with G5 schools will be the first to go, to be replaced with FCS-like one-and-dones.

competitively, they're really no different as G5 schools get beat just as badly, but I can see TV dictating that any FBS is "more important" than any FCS. The bottom line is that ESPN and TV execs are ruling P5 college football and whatever they say goes. They're trying to keep the Big 12 from expanding at all because they don't think any top candidates are worth the price tag.

[F'N Hawks]

Yeah, that is really crazy man. Get that noose off your neck and better off is in your future man.

If they cut three sports they would save around $2,750,000 (rough math). Three sports that are next to worthless (WH, SB, Golf, or a S&D).

[RootinFerDukes]

Don't you have to have a minimum number of programs just to stay a D1 athletic program? Then there's Title IX compliance to factor in too. It may not be as simple as dropping a non-revenue sport.

I do agree that a $2M/year price tag for women's hockey when it brings in little revenue is the elephant in the athletic budget room there.

[clenz]

Don't you have to have a minimum number of programs just to stay a D1 athletic program? Then there's Title IX compliance to factor in too. It may not be as simple as dropping a non-revenue sport.

I do agree that a $2M/year price tag for women's hockey when it brings in little revenue is the elephant in the athletic budget room there.
14 FCS
16 FBS

19 for an FCS school (sans IVY League) is just astronimcal

I'd bet 75+% of FCS schools are between 14-16 and none of them, outside of football, will have a 2 million dollar sport.

Well, UNI does as UNI's basketball budget will be about 2.75 million this coming season I believe but UNI basketball is certainly an exception to the rule when it comes to FCS program funding and UNI basketball is very firmly in the black every single year with that kind of budget.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They check in at around $2,000,000 dollars a year. I would love to hear of another non-revenue program that spends that much.

Every sport at UND loses money but Men's Hockey. But Women's Hockey takes their entire budget and gives literally nothing back.

The latest EADA report has women's hockey gameday expenses (annual) at $484,953:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details

$18,000 per participant is somewhat high, but also in line with what UND pays per participant on women's basketball ($17,000). It also is completely dwarfed by men's basketball ($25,839) and men's hockey ($50,252).

Also, not sure how you're saying women's hockey "gives literally nothing back", but EADA says that women's sports not counting football and basketball generated $4.7M dollars last season, and I doubt all of that money is coming from swimming+diving and volleyball.

[IBleedYellow]

Don't you have to have a minimum number of programs just to stay a D1 athletic program? Then there's Title IX compliance to factor in too. It may not be as simple as dropping a non-revenue sport.

I do agree that a $2M/year price tag for women's hockey when it brings in little revenue is the elephant in the athletic budget room there.

You must have at least 6 Mens Sports and 8 Women's sports or 7 of each. Have 2 sports that each gender plays, also.

Also much have a gender sport in each season.

[F'N Hawks]

The latest EADA report has women's hockey gameday expenses (annual) at $484,953:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details

$18,000 per participant is somewhat high, but also in line with what UND pays per participant on women's basketball ($17,000). It also is completely dwarfed by men's basketball ($25,839) and men's hockey ($50,252).

Also, not sure how you're saying women's hockey "gives literally nothing back", but EADA says that women's sports not counting football and basketball generated $4.7M dollars last season, and I doubt all of that money is coming from swimming+diving and volleyball.

There are the numbers that they put out for those stupid year end reports, which always seem to balance. xlolx

Then, there is the numbers I was told by the CFO and other department employees. Its closer to 2 million, guess you will have to believe me.

Put it this way about "literally giving nothing back" --- The WH team is not even taking tickets this year. Just walk in and enjoy.

[F'N Hawks]

14 FCS
16 FBS

19 for an FCS school (sans IVY League) is just astronimcal

I'd bet 75+% of FCS schools are between 14-16 and none of them, outside of football, will have a 2 million dollar sport.

Well, UNI does as UNI's basketball budget will be about 2.75 million this coming season I believe but UNI basketball is certainly an exception to the rule when it comes to FCS program funding and UNI basketball is very firmly in the black every single year with that kind of budget.


UND needs to get to 16. The rest of the teams will get better (or should) once all that fluff is cut. Focus on actually being good at sports instead of "offering opportunities" and sucking ballz at 10 of them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

competitively, they're really no different as G5 schools get beat just as badly, but I can see TV dictating that any FBS is "more important" than any FCS. The bottom line is that ESPN and TV execs are ruling P5 college football and whatever they say goes. They're trying to keep the Big 12 from expanding at all because they don't think any top candidates are worth the price tag.

TV does not price Eastern Michigan/Michigan any better than UNI/Michigan, they are exactly the same to them - some nothing team vs. a "big-time" team, David vs. Goliath.

TV might try to dictate more Alabama/Michigan early-season games, but they will get blowback from most coaches. Privately coaches loathe the idea, because when they lose those games their ass is on the line. They vastly prefer FCS game, at home, in front of Rudy's parents, a near-guaranteed win, and for teams hovering around .500, it's the difference between a postseason bowl and sitting at home.

[clenz]

To some extent it is a numbers game though.

UNI goes through this almost every year. UNI isn't funded quited like Iowa and Iowa State and the Iowa BOR wants UNI to self fund like Iowa and ISU. There is always critcism about UNI getting money from the general fund. The dumb part is that money is paid right back to the university through scholarships, room/board, paying for safety at events, etc... plus some.

UND's issues look bigger than that, but on a scale as big as a D1 athletic budget (even a smaller one like NDSU, UNI, UND, etc...) numbers can be played with and shifted. Good athletic directors can look great with how they shift numbers around. UNI's former AD, Troy Dannen, is a perfect example of that.

[IBleedYellow]

UND needs to get to 16. The rest of the teams will get better (or should) once all that fluff is cut. Focus on actually being good at sports instead of "offering opportunities" and sucking ballz at 10 of them.


From now on you are SiouxVolley in my head.

Enjoy being @ 16 sports and not funding them all properly so that UND can go to the magical FBS location. Talk about being on an island. There is a reason that Idaho is coming back.

[geaux_sioux]

The latest EADA report has women's hockey gameday expenses (annual) at $484,953:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details

$18,000 per participant is somewhat high, but also in line with what UND pays per participant on women's basketball ($17,000). It also is completely dwarfed by men's basketball ($25,839) and men's hockey ($50,252).

Also, not sure how you're saying women's hockey "gives literally nothing back", but EADA says that women's sports not counting football and basketball generated $4.7M dollars last season, and I doubt all of that money is coming from swimming+diving and volleyball.
Our womens volleyball games are actually well attended. That and womens basketball have support at UND and have the potential to be really really strong programs.

[F'N Hawks]

From now on you are SiouxVolley in my head.

Enjoy being @ 16 sports and not funding them all properly so that UND can go to the magical FBS location. Talk about being on an island. There is a reason that Idaho is coming back.

Where, at any time ever, have I said UND needs to go FBS?

[IBleedYellow]

Where, at any time ever, have I said UND needs to go FBS?

There is no reason as an FCS school do you need to be 16 sports. 14 or 15 is a good balance. Even then, no reason to go above that.

[F'N Hawks]

There is no reason as an FCS school do you need to be 16 sports. 14 or 15 is a good balance. Even then, no reason to go above that.

So you're arguing about 1 f'cking sport and that means I want UND to go FBS?

If you would look at the core sports that the Big Sky requires you would understand my choice of 16.

[smilo]

Um, well, it wasn't accounted for in the 2016 budget, if that's what you mean.

I'm sure NDSU will have some hard decisions too. The next round of budgets cuts are going to get pretty close to the bone for both schools.

Back to UND's options: If UND wants to join the Summit, then cutting baseball was a horrible move. The Summit League would have to be willing to risk destabilizing itself to bring in a school that offers nothing but greater travel costs for its oldest members. Maybe the Summit could add UMKC as well as UND to hedge against the possibility of alienating the Indiana schools, Western Illinois, ORU, and/or Denver.

On the plus side, the Big Sky will almost certainly waive UND's exit fee (if there is one.)


I didn't realize being in a league with radically changing membership since 1998 (and 2007 for FW!) got a team an extra vote :) Seems to me they could get 7 of 9 on board. Should be enough? If the other two want to leave, let them make good on it. They won't find a suitor to drop baseball to 5. Oral Roberts was added a million miles away. Why not UND?

I don't pretend to know the finer details of non-revenue sports for regional conferences, but this seems like a logical move for The Summit. As y'all said, they have baseball membership problems, but those aren't going away whether UND's poor team were still there or not. No other expansion candidate really exists with a team either AFAIK. (Well, there is Eastern Illinois, but I wouldn't bank on that by any means...) For the MVFC, the sell is definitely significantly tougher. Almost requires other movement among its membership, which doesn't appear to be happening at the moment. Could the state get involved enough to threaten to break away? Obviously 4 teams don't make a new league, but if they have to follow through on the threat, it's not like they can't figure something out.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

So you're arguing about 1 f'cking sport and that means I want UND to go FBS?

If you would look at the core sports that the Big Sky requires you would understand my choice of 16.

I didn't understand IBY's inference either...your number seems just fine coming down from the 19 it is at now if those sports can be sustained and the fact that without Hockey it would be at 15 with is fairly normal.

When you have an outlier sport that does well it makes sense to have that extra I think.

[clenz]

16 is an okay number for an FCS school, if well run.

UNI is at 15 (9W/6M). There was, at one time, rumblings about turning one of our women's club teams into a varsity sport (or even adding bowling) to equal Title IX out better. 16 would be relatively easy to handle assuming it was a rugby or bowling type team. Then again, UNI doesn't have a 2M albatross around it's neck like womens hockey.

I'd love to see a men's soccer team at UNI, but that will never happen. Missouri State is the only public MVC team with a mens team.

[Thumper 76]

I wish SDSU didn't have as many sports as it has to fund, we wouldn't have to worry as much about a lot of things.

[Sycamore62]

I think this shortfall is mild compared to what a buttload of schools are going to have in the new 2-5 years

[jacksfan29]

I didn't realize being in a league with radically changing membership since 1998 (and 2007 for FW!) got a team an extra vote :) Seems to me they could get 7 of 9 on board. Should be enough? If the other two want to leave, let them make good on it. They won't find a suitor to drop baseball to 5. Oral Roberts was added a million miles away. Why not UND?

I don't pretend to know the finer details of non-revenue sports for regional conferences, but this seems like a logical move for The Summit. As y'all said, they have baseball membership problems, but those aren't going away whether UND's poor team were still there or not. No other expansion candidate really exists with a team either AFAIK. (Well, there is Eastern Illinois, but I wouldn't bank on that by any means...) For the MVFC, the sell is definitely significantly tougher. Almost requires other movement among its membership, which doesn't appear to be happening at the moment. Could the state get involved enough to threaten to break away? Obviously 4 teams don't make a new league, but if they have to follow through on the threat, it's not like they can't figure something out.

What "state" would be involved and which state has 4 schools? If you are combining the two Dakota states there is no way SDSU or USD are going to stick their necks out for UND. I have a feeling NDSU won't unless their hand is forced. Even if forced to go to bat for UND, NDSU alone can't put enough pressure on the eastern schools to do anything. The MVFC is not an option unless two schools leave. That isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[Go...gate]

Stay in the Big Sky.

[Twentysix]

Close the university for this travesty. Lock the doors and burn it down.

[SDFS]

Actually, I agree with UND needing to look at it's sports offerings. I think it is a good thing in the long run. This particular issue has been brewing since the late 90's. Not sure if everyone remembers this but, in late 90's there was a big push by parents of girls high school hockey players in Minnesota to expand the sport. Because there were only a couple of colleges in the area that offered women's hockey. Basically, Bemidji, SCSU and Mankato were forced to start hockey or they could expect a lawsuit. After they got those schools to start hockey. They went after UND.
The NCAA did not offer women's hockey before 2000.

http://www.undnews.com/und_not_title_ix_compliant.htm
A Minneapolis attorney who represented two women hockey players in a Title IX lawsuit against St. Cloud State University says UND could be sued for noncompliance with gender equity laws if it does not institute a varsity women's hockey team.

I AM NOT AWARE, BASED ON WHAT I'VE SEEN AND HEARD, THAT UND WOULD HAVE ANY DEFENSE FOR A TITLE IX ACTION, SAID CHRIS MESSERLY, AN ATTORNEY WITH THE MINNEAPOLIS FIRM ROBINS, KAPLAN, MILLER & CIRESI

In 1999 UND started a fully funded women's soccer program
In 2002 UND started a fully funded women's hockey program - note it costs around 1.5 to 2 million for women's hockey.

2007 transition to D-1 – added scholarship for football and Title IX.

2012 transition complete.

2013 join Big Sky - need to add core sports.
2013 UND start men's tennis
2013 UND starts women's tennis

At the start of this year, UND had 21 sports. It has been mentioned on numerous occasions that UND would be looking to right-size its sport offerings when the D-1 transition was completed and they had a final conference home.

IMO, women hockey is not going away at UND as much as everyone would like to get rid of it because a lawsuit out of MSP would quickly follow. You can look for – softball and/or swimming/diving.

One other thing to note is the $1.4 shortfall was for this year when UND had 21 sports. They have cut both baseball and men's golf. So, the athletic department has not seen the cost savings from those moves yet. Now, they are looking at additional cuts due to additional cuts from the State. I think getting to 16 would be ideal.

[Thumper 76]

Actually, I agree with UND needing to look at it's sports offerings. I think it is a good thing in the long run. This particular issue has been brewing since the late 90's. Not sure if everyone remembers this but, in late 90's there was a big push by parents of girls high school hockey players in Minnesota to expand the sport. Because there were only a couple of colleges in the area that offered women's hockey. Basically, Bemidji, SCSU and Mankato were forced to start hockey or they could expect a lawsuit. After they got those schools to start hockey. They went after UND.
The NCAA did not offer women's hockey before 2000.

http://www.undnews.com/und_not_title_ix_compliant.htm
A Minneapolis attorney who represented two women hockey players in a Title IX lawsuit against St. Cloud State University says UND could be sued for noncompliance with gender equity laws if it does not institute a varsity women's hockey team.

I AM NOT AWARE, BASED ON WHAT I'VE SEEN AND HEARD, THAT UND WOULD HAVE ANY DEFENSE FOR A TITLE IX ACTION, SAID CHRIS MESSERLY, AN ATTORNEY WITH THE MINNEAPOLIS FIRM ROBINS, KAPLAN, MILLER & CIRESI

In 1999 UND started a fully funded women's soccer program
In 2002 UND started a fully funded women's hockey program - note it costs around 1.5 to 2 million for women's hockey.

2007 transition to D-1 – added scholarship for football and Title IX.

2012 transition complete.

2013 join Big Sky - need to add core sports.
2013 UND start men's tennis
2013 UND starts women's tennis

At the start of this year, UND had 21 sports. It has been mentioned on numerous occasions that UND would be looking to right-size its sport offerings when the D-1 transition was completed and they had a final conference home.

IMO, women hockey is not going away at UND as much as everyone would like to get rid of it because a lawsuit out of MSP would quickly follow. You can look for – softball and/or swimming/diving.

One other thing to note is the $1.4 shortfall was for this year when UND had 21 sports. They have cut both baseball and men's golf. So, the athletic department has not seen the cost savings from those moves yet. Now, they are looking at additional cuts due to additional cuts from the State. I think getting to 16 would be ideal.

Could the non compliance with Title IX have been because they were only offering a Division I sport to a men's team and no similar opportunity to women? That could cause them to be able to drop it now with other Division I women's sports available.

[SDFS]

Could the non compliance with Title IX have been because they were only offering a Division I sport to a men's team and no similar opportunity to women? That could cause them to be able to drop it now with other Division I women's sports available.

I am not a Title IX expert - don't really know. But, if UND does cut W. hockey they need to do there homework because people will be looking at it hard. The irony of all of this is the original threat of lawsuit was to get more opportunities for local girls. But, most of UND's players are international - in particular European. That is one of the reasons why it is so expensive right now.

[taper]

I am not a Title IX expert - don't really know. But, if UND does cut W. hockey they need to do there homework because people will be looking at it hard. The irony of all of this is the original threat of lawsuit was to get more opportunities for local girls. But, most of UND's players are international - in particular European. That is one of the reasons why it is so expensive right now.

I don't know if UND fully funded them, but they recently dropped men's baseball and golf which allow 11.7 and 4.5 scholarships. Hockey allows 18. Women's cuts would be a little higher, not sure how much matters. All sports are D1 now, unlike when they added women's hockey to balance out D1 men's hockey while D2 in everything else. Any time lawyers get involved it'll be a disaster but on the surface I don't see major Title IX issues.

[IBleedYellow]

I am not a Title IX expert - don't really know. But, if UND does cut W. hockey they need to do there homework because people will be looking at it hard. The irony of all of this is the original threat of lawsuit was to get more opportunities for local girls. But, most of UND's players are international - in particular European. That is one of the reasons why it is so expensive right now.

Wait - you guys aren't like Minot State and give all students (International or Not) the same tuition pricing?

SHOCKING!


(PS, this is a shot @ Minot State, not UND.)

[nodak651]

FYI, according to the GFH, UND is expected to save $720,000 per year due to the cutting of baseball and men's golf. http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4007776-watch-und-athletics-announces-elimination-baseball-mens-golf

Moving forward, UND only has to cut an additional $680K. I would expect to see m/w swimming and diving cut. After that, I assume they will be pretty close. If not, trim the women's hockey budget a few thousand dollars.

Football isn't going anywhere.

[Bisonoline]

FYI, according to the GFH, UND is expected to save $720,000 per year due to the cutting of baseball and men's golf. http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4007776-watch-und-athletics-announces-elimination-baseball-mens-golf

Moving forward, UND only has to cut an additional $680K. I would expect to see m/w swimming and diving cut. After that, I assume they will be pretty close. If not, trim the women's hockey budget a few thousand dollars.

Football isn't going anywhere.

Cutting baseball and golf solved your funding for FCOA. But how you going to fund it next year? PLus you have all of the other cuts and a 1.4 million shortfall. The shell game can only last so long.

[Laker]

FYI, according to the GFH, UND is expected to save $720,000 per year due to the cutting of baseball and men's golf. http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4007776-watch-und-athletics-announces-elimination-baseball-mens-golf

Moving forward, UND only has to cut an additional $680K. I would expect to see m/w swimming and diving cut. After that, I assume they will be pretty close. If not, trim the women's hockey budget a few thousand dollars.

Football isn't going anywhere.

Look out when you start cutting women's sports. St. Cloud State dropped men's and women's tennis- and the women have filed a law suit. More legal fees.

[centennial]

UND not dropping back to D2? I think they should try to get into the Summit/MVFC. We need another dungeon dweller other than Missouri State. No way that happens without baseball though..

218 RPI, 141 Sagarin for last year will solidly place UND in the bottom fourth of the 2 big sports. Even if switching was on the table would the fans/alumni accept not going to the playoffs/ big dance in the near future?

[BisonTru]

Pretty even split on the poll including the Hawkeys. Looks like 3 for the Sky, 2 for the Valley. Small sample size tho.

[Hammersmith]

Could the non compliance with Title IX have been because they were only offering a Division I sport to a men's team and no similar opportunity to women? That could cause them to be able to drop it now with other Division I women's sports available.

That's one argument, but there's a more serious argument that protects women's hockey at UND.

An element of Title IX is that you need to treat genders similarly across sports. That goes for everything; facilities, coaching salaries, travel and recruiting budgets, training equipment, etc. It's not just about scholarships.

Now that doesn't mean that every sport has to be treated the same, but it means that things have to be comparable overall. The feds let you "tier" your sports. Say you fund one men's sport at a very high level and the rest you fund at the bare minimum. You have to do the same for the women's side.

UND funds men's hockey at probably the 95th percentile among all DI hockey schools. They have the best facilities, the best equipment, some of the best paid coaches, very high recruiting and travel budgets, etc. Because of the way they treat men's hockey, they need to treat at least one women's sport the same. While funding women's hockey at a very high level is expensive, it's less expensive than funding WBB or VB to the same level. Especially in the area of facilities and coaching salaries. Because the women's team can use the same top-notch facilities as the men, UND only really has to pay for the high salaries. And a 95th percentile salary in women's hockey is far less than a 95th percentile salary for WBB or VB.

So UND women's hockey is not going anywhere.


UND's best choice would be to get into the MVFC/Summit. But I don't see the Valley offering UND a spot. The second best choice would be to leave football in the Big Sky and bring the rest into the Summit. I think the Summit might go for it and the Sky probably would(with no exit fees as long as UND gave a decent notice). But I don't think UND will go for it. I think they'll drop a couple minor sports(S&D?), tighten some belts in other sports, stay in the Sky and continue to bring up the rear in the overall conference standing due to funding the vast majority of their sports at the bare minimum.

[Hammersmith]

FYI, according to the GFH, UND is expected to save $720,000 per year due to the cutting of baseball and men's golf. http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4007776-watch-und-athletics-announces-elimination-baseball-mens-golf

Moving forward, UND only has to cut an additional $680K. I would expect to see m/w swimming and diving cut. After that, I assume they will be pretty close. If not, trim the women's hockey budget a few thousand dollars.

Football isn't going anywhere.

I'm not sure that's true. We're looking at two different budgets: FY16 and FY17.

When Dalrymple ordered cuts, they applied to FY17. The savings from dropping baseball and men's golf is to help with that cut. But the $1.4M deficit applies to FY16. That means you have to add the $1.4M to whatever UND ordered to be already cut. And FCOA wasn't part of the FY16 budget, so that's a drain above and beyond. That money's got to come from somewhere. Either new revenue(which doesn't look good considering the FY16 deficit) or additional cuts.

It's not a "the sky is falling" situation, but it ain't great either.

[Yote 53]

I am for women's hockey. There are a lot of talented girls out there that need opportunities to play in college and UND is natural fit with its history in hockey. If nobody is attending the games anyway then cut the budget for recruiting and stick to recruiting local girls from across ND, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc. There is enough talent in the upper Midwest of girls that dream of going to a school like UND.

Align the rest of their sports offerings with the Summit and try to cut a deal with the BSC to participate as a football only member. They already allow that for a couple of their Cali schools, and I'm guessing the other conference members would be thrilled to not have to send their non-revnue sports to GF. Then wait for some movement in the MVFC and someday move football there when the opportunity arises.

[SDFS]

That's one argument, but there's a more serious argument that protects women's hockey at UND.

An element of Title IX is that you need to treat genders similarly across sports. That goes for everything; facilities, coaching salaries, travel and recruiting budgets, training equipment, etc. It's not just about scholarships.

Now that doesn't mean that every sport has to be treated the same, but it means that things have to be comparable overall. The feds let you "tier" your sports. Say you fund one men's sport at a very high level and the rest you fund at the bare minimum. You have to do the same for the women's side.

UND funds men's hockey at probably the 95th percentile among all DI hockey schools. They have the best facilities, the best equipment, some of the best paid coaches, very high recruiting and travel budgets, etc. Because of the way they treat men's hockey, they need to treat at least one women's sport the same. While funding women's hockey at a very high level is expensive, it's less expensive than funding WBB or VB to the same level. Especially in the area of facilities and coaching salaries. Because the women's team can use the same top-notch facilities as the men, UND only really has to pay for the high salaries. And a 95th percentile salary in women's hockey is far less than a 95th percentile salary for WBB or VB.

So UND women's hockey is not going anywhere.


UND's best choice would be to get into the MVFC/Summit. But I don't see the Valley offering UND a spot. The second best choice would be to leave football in the Big Sky and bring the rest into the Summit. I think the Summit might go for it and the Sky probably would(with no exit fees as long as UND gave a decent notice). But I don't think UND will go for it. I think they'll drop a couple minor sports(S&D?), tighten some belts in other sports, stay in the Sky and continue to bring up the rear in the overall conference standing due to funding the vast majority of their sports at the bare minimum.

Would funding track and field or CC at the 95% do the same thing, plus the new indoor practice facility has one of the best surfaces in the nation - account for that also. Outdoor track is a different story.

[Bisonoline]

Would funding track and field or CC at the 95% do the same thing, plus the new indoor practice facility has one of the best surfaces in the nation - account for that also. Outdoor track is a different story.

I thought all of your sports were fully funded?

[Yote 53]

Thinking about this some more, these school presidents and academics sit in their ivory towers and dream up their socialist policies. They like the prestige and publicity that goes with being a Division 1 school but they don't want to pay for it. Then, to top it all off, they give the AD a mandate that they also need to figure out how to carry a bunch of dead weight programs in order to fit the mold of their utopian society all the while expecting things to stay on budget. It just doesn't work that way. If the academics want their utopian societies then they need to understand there is going to be a cost in order to provide "opportunity".

[Hammersmith]

Would funding track and field or CC at the 95% do the same thing, plus the new indoor practice facility has one of the best surfaces in the nation - account for that also. Outdoor track is a different story.

Sure, but that wouldn't help. UND pays their women's hockey head coach around $125k. Oregon paid their T&F head coach around $275k back in 2012. (I picked Oregon at random since they've got a top-notch track program. You could search other top-5 programs to see where their head coaching salaries are at.)

[clenz]

That's one argument, but there's a more serious argument that protects women's hockey at UND.

An element of Title IX is that you need to treat genders similarly across sports. That goes for everything; facilities, coaching salaries, travel and recruiting budgets, training equipment, etc. It's not just about scholarships.

Now that doesn't mean that every sport has to be treated the same, but it means that things have to be comparable overall. The feds let you "tier" your sports. Say you fund one men's sport at a very high level and the rest you fund at the bare minimum. You have to do the same for the women's side.

UND funds men's hockey at probably the 95th percentile among all DI hockey schools. They have the best facilities, the best equipment, some of the best paid coaches, very high recruiting and travel budgets, etc. Because of the way they treat men's hockey, they need to treat at least one women's sport the same. While funding women's hockey at a very high level is expensive, it's less expensive than funding WBB or VB to the same level. Especially in the area of facilities and coaching salaries. Because the women's team can use the same top-notch facilities as the men, UND only really has to pay for the high salaries. And a 95th percentile salary in women's hockey is far less than a 95th percentile salary for WBB or VB.

So UND women's hockey is not going anywhere.


UND's best choice would be to get into the MVFC/Summit. But I don't see the Valley offering UND a spot. The second best choice would be to leave football in the Big Sky and bring the rest into the Summit. I think the Summit might go for it and the Sky probably would(with no exit fees as long as UND gave a decent notice). But I don't think UND will go for it. I think they'll drop a couple minor sports(S&D?), tighten some belts in other sports, stay in the Sky and continue to bring up the rear in the overall conference standing due to funding the vast majority of their sports at the bare minimum.
Does it really cost 2-3 million dollars to fund volleyball or womens basketball the equivalent level of it's sport compared to hockey?

UNI has one of the top volleyball programs in the nation the last 20 years or so. Top 10 in attendance every year, NCAA tournament nearly every year, hosting conference tournaments, hosting the NCAA tournament, head coach is top 10 all time in win %. I can't imagine how the program even comes close to 1 million, let alone 2 or 3. Remember, UNI's basketball program is at 2.75m ish.

UNI's volleyball coaches salaries:
HC: $148,051
AC1: $66,940
AC2: $57,175
DOps: $33,886
That's only $306K ish for salaries

UNI VB plays in a 7,000 seat arena.
UNI offers FCOA for volleyball (I believe...if not it's right on the horizon)
This year UNI is playing OOC tournaments at the University of Michigan, Southern California (rotates between USC, UNI, Creighton and Kentucky every year...real nice set up for these 4), and Kansas City.

If UNI got to $750K in expenses

I won't look at all of the VB programs around, but I'd bet UNI funds it's coaches better than 95% of D1 volleyball programs.


UNI women's basketball is, for sure, FCOA, plays in a 7,000 seat arena, has about $300k in salaires for coaches, etc...

Betweeen UNI's two largets women's sports I think we'd still be over a half million short, or more, of UND women's hockey

The women's team at UND for basketball can use the same arena as the mens team. The volleyball team can use it if that's needed for Title IX. UNI has 2 facilities they use for practice/matches depending on what is happening for volleyball (the second is only used for matches during a "turn back the clock" event as it's the old gym on campus and is now the wrestling facility but still has a court under the wrestling mats and it only holds about 2,500 people, not the 6,000 ish that UNI averages for volleyball some years.

Facilities shouldn't be an issue at a D1 school for situations like this.

[AmsterBison]

There are several different questions I could have answered.

1. What do I think UND should do? Join the Summit.
2. What do I think UND will do? Stay in the Big Sky because why break their streak of doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason now?
3. What do I hope UND does? Stay in the Big Sky.

[geaux_sioux]

Does it really cost 2-3 million dollars to fund volleyball or womens basketball the equivalent level of it's sport compared to hockey?

UNI has one of the top volleyball programs in the nation the last 20 years or so. Top 10 in attendance every year, NCAA tournament nearly every year, hosting conference tournaments, hosting the NCAA tournament, head coach is top 10 all time in win %. I can't imagine how the program even comes close to 1 million, let alone 2 or 3. Remember, UNI's basketball program is at 2.75m ish.

UNI's volleyball coaches salaries:
HC: $148,051
AC1: $66,940
AC2: $57,175
DOps: $33,886
That's only $306K ish for salaries

UNI VB plays in a 7,000 seat arena.
UNI offers FCOA for volleyball (I believe...if not it's right on the horizon)
This year UNI is playing OOC tournaments at the University of Michigan, Southern California (rotates between USC, UNI, Creighton and Kentucky every year...real nice set up for these 4), and Kansas City.

If UNI got to $750K in expenses

I won't look at all of the VB programs around, but I'd bet UNI funds it's coaches better than 95% of D1 volleyball programs.


UNI women's basketball is, for sure, FCOA, plays in a 7,000 seat arena, has about $300k in salaires for coaches, etc...

Betweeen UNI's two largets women's sports I think we'd still be over a half million short, or more, of UND women's hockey

The women's team at UND for basketball can use the same arena as the mens team. The volleyball team can use it if that's needed for Title IX. UNI has 2 facilities they use for practice/matches depending on what is happening for volleyball (the second is only used for matches during a "turn back the clock" event as it's the old gym on campus and is now the wrestling facility but still has a court under the wrestling mats and it only holds about 2,500 people, not the 6,000 ish that UNI averages for volleyball some years.

Facilities shouldn't be an issue at a D1 school for situations like this.
UND over emphasizes hockey because of the Englestad family. They cut fat checks every year. That may be why UND would hold on to womens hockey. Ideally UND would pump funding into sports that stand a chance of making money like the basketballs and volleyball. That would make the athletic department a lot more healthy.

[BisonTru]

There are several different questions I could have answered.

1. What do I think UND should do? Join the Summit.
2. What do I think UND will do? Stay in the Big Sky because why break their streak of doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason now?
3. What do I hope UND does? Stay in the Big Sky.

My thoughts as well. I voted for going Summit/Possibly MVFC because to me that makes the most sense for UND. What I think and would like them to do is stay Big Sky.

[BisonBacker]

I voted stay in the Big Sky, because we don't need that trainwreck of a **** show. :D

THIS X10000000000000000000

[Laker]

UND to seek new conference affiliation

http://y94.com/news/articles/2016/aug/19/und-to-explore-change-in-conference-affiliation/

[PantherRob82]

UND to seek new conference affiliation

http://y94.com/news/articles/2016/aug/19/und-to-explore-change-in-conference-affiliation/


There's no way the MVFC let's them in. There isn't any other option.

Yes votes:
MAYBE NDSU
MAYBE SDSU
MAYBE USD

No votes:
Probably UNI
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Indiana State
Youngstown State

[AmsterBison]

UND to seek new conference affiliation

http://y94.com/news/articles/2016/aug/19/und-to-explore-change-in-conference-affiliation/

I think that Y94 is just rephrasing UND's remarks from before. They'll explore the idea but that's different than actively seeking new conferences.

- - - Updated - - -


UND to seek new conference affiliation

http://y94.com/news/articles/2016/aug/19/und-to-explore-change-in-conference-affiliation/

I think that Y94 is just rephrasing UND's remarks from before. They'll explore the idea but that's different than actively seeking new conferences.

[dakotadan]

UND to seek new conference affiliation

http://y94.com/news/articles/2016/aug/19/und-to-explore-change-in-conference-affiliation/

That article says no such thing. Simply says that conference affiliation is one thing being looked at.

[IBleedYellow]

If the vote would be 100% nonpublic and never be leaked, I honestly don't know if NDSU would vote yes to letting them in.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[centennial]

^ Could NDSU block UND. Would it want to?

[PantherRob82]

KFGO is saying Und is looking to switch conferences............http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2016/aug/19/und-to-explore-change-in-conference-affiliation/#.V7d2SVIAT40.facebook


http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/college/2016/08/19/north-dakota-explore-change-conference-affiliation/89012270/

I don't see anything different in these 2 articles. Only that they are looking into options.

- - - Updated - - -


^ Could NDSU block UND. Would it want to?

They wouldn't need to. Seems like the 6 no votes from Illinois, Missouri, Indiana and Ohio would take care of it. (and maybe Iowa)

[goyotes]

There's no way the MVFC let's them in. There isn't any other option.

Yes votes:
MAYBE NDSU
MAYBE SDSU
MAYBE USD

No votes:
Probably UNI
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Indiana State
Youngstown State

UND would be a welcome addition to the Summit League and I believe they would join the Summit League in a heartbeat if they could also have their football team join the MVFC. It seems obvious that the Summit League teams that are in the MVFC should be in favor of UND being admitted to the MVFC. I am guessing USD and SDSU would both be a yes and Western Illinois a maybe. I don't have a clue how NDSU would vote.

[TheKingpin28]

UND would be a welcome addition to the Summit League and I believe they would join the Summit League in a heartbeat if they could also have their football team join the MVFC. It seems obvious that the Summit League teams that are in the MVFC should be in favor of UND being admitted to the MVFC. I am guessing USD and SDSU would both be a yes and Western Illinois a maybe. I don't have a clue how NDSU would vote.

As IBY said, if votes remained private, I would not be surprised if NDSU wanted to give them the bird and vote no.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

KFGO is saying Und is looking to switch conferences............http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2016/a...IAT40.facebook (http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2016/aug/19/und-to-explore-change-in-conference-affiliation/#.V7d2SVIAT40.facebook)


http://www.argusleader.com/story/spo...tion/89012270/ (http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/college/2016/08/19/north-dakota-explore-change-conference-affiliation/89012270/)

Edit: Argusleader article is basically the same as KFGO.

Tried editing from phone and deleted original.

[PantherRob82]

UND would be a welcome addition to the Summit League and I believe they would join the Summit League in a heartbeat if they could also have their football team join the MVFC. It seems obvious that the Summit League teams that are in the MVFC should be in favor of UND being admitted to the MVFC. I am guessing USD and SDSU would both be a yes and Western Illinois a maybe. I don't have a clue how NDSU would vote.

Does the Summit need them that bad, or just a precaution? I don't think WIU can afford more trips to ND, but I could be wrong. How many votes to they need to get in? The Summit votes only get them 4 votes. I don't see the benefit to UNI. It would also completely mess up the round robin even further.

[Thumper 76]

I'm all for them in the Summit but absolutely not for the MVFC. I could just see it ending up set up so the eastern schools get to miss two of SDSU, NDSU, and UNI in a season making it wildly unbalanced. Barf.

Edit:

To clarify I should have said get to miss traveling to two western schools, which would allow some teams to miss two of the three I mentioned, giving a team like YSU or ISUr a huge advantage for the autobid.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Summit would be fine but not the Valley.

As mentioned by others on here, no way the eastern schools say yes in the Valley.

[centennial]

Could UND pay a for every other charter flight from an Eastern school? That could perhaps change their minds? I am personally against letting them in. Why would NDSU help them out? I could easily see NDSU voting no.

[IBleedYellow]

Could UND pay a for every other charter flight from an Eastern school? That could perhaps change their minds? I am personally against letting them in. Why would NDSU help them out? I could easily see NDSU voting no.
NDSU could help them out.

Or we can be as petty as they were when we tried to bring them D1 with us the first time and basically were told we were making a huge mistake.

I'm not one to be petty, but this is politics here. So pettiness is a given.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[clenz]

It's an interesting topic.

NDSU, SDSU, USD and WIU need a stable Summit and UND, other than the baseball issue, helps with that.

If this simply was a "go in a curtained off booth with only a no box and a yes box with only a small hole to put a small piece of paper" type vote where there is no way to pin it on someone they don't come close to the votes required.


From the MVC side though it's interesting as adding another western school, which was an issue upfront, at this point only helps them with forcing SDSU, UNI, NDSU (and MSU) into never missing each other and spending more time off of their schedules. Creates an easier conference schedule with less travel. Catch 22 for them there

[No_Skill]

If the votes are public, NDSU would get raked over the coals in the media if they voted no. You think this media deal was a fiasco? That would be a full on **** show. A yes vote from NDSU would be a given if voting was public.

Question: Would NDSU use our good relationship with SDSU to solicit a no vote from them?

Note to Bresciani: Do not email this request!

[Laker]

It's an interesting topic.

NDSU, SDSU, USD and WIU need a stable Summit and UND, other than the baseball issue, helps with that.

How about- "We will let you into the Summit, but you have to reinstate baseball"?

[IBleedYellow]

Let's hope it doesn't come to any of these hypotheticals, because I really don't want to see this drama play out.


I swear drama follows that school non stop since I've been on this earth.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[ST_Lawson]

UND would be a welcome addition to the Summit League and I believe they would join the Summit League in a heartbeat if they could also have their football team join the MVFC. It seems obvious that the Summit League teams that are in the MVFC should be in favor of UND being admitted to the MVFC. I am guessing USD and SDSU would both be a yes and Western Illinois a maybe. I don't have a clue how NDSU would vote.

I'm with most of you, I think...I'd be fine with them in the Summit, but outside of Youngstown leaving the conference to join a more "eastern" conference, I don't see a situation where UND would be a good addition to the MVFC. They're no NDSU or UNI, but they're a decent football team (WAY better than Missouri State...but who isn't?). Swapping out YSU for UND would be a decent "trade".

With the current football conference setup though....nope.

As for $ for trips to the Dakotas? I think if they worked on scheduling a bit, they could make it work. Summit used to have men's BBall games on Th/Sat, for example...if they just made sure that each pair of "travel partners" ended up playing the ND teams during a Th/Sat pair, then it'd be ok. Fly up on Wednesday evening, play one ND team on Thursday, drive to the other on Friday morning, play the other ND team on Saturday, fly home on Sunday. They just have to do a better job of pairing up games/matches with the ND teams together, the SD teams together, the IN teams together, etc.

[Bisonator]

First off there is no way UND is getting into the MVFC as it is currently. Now if YSU was to leave that would certainly open the door for them but it would still be a long shot because I think most would prefer a round robin schedule. Another possibility is if UND is one of 2 schools added to get to 12 and split into divisions but again it would be unbalanced anyway you slice it. Just not a great fit right now.

The obvious solution to everyone's problems would be UND seeking Summit membership for their other sports while keeping football as an affiliate member of the BSC. That would ease the travel burdens for UND and all of the BSC schools having to travel to ND in other sports. It would shore up the Summit and make scheduling much better for the other Summit schools. I would think all parties in the Summit and BSC would be open to this situation but UND seems dead set against it for some reason.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Selfishly, without knowing too many of the details I'd like to see YSU join the CAA which in theory should open the door for UND to get into the MVFC.

[Thumper 76]

Selfishly, without knowing too many of the details I'd like to see YSU join the CAA which in theory should open the door for UND to get into the MVFC.

I don't think so. What it would do is get the MVFC back to a full round robin conference season.

[Kemo]

I'm with most of you, I think...I'd be fine with them in the Summit, but outside of Youngstown leaving the conference to join a more "eastern" conference, I don't see a situation where UND would be a good addition to the MVFC. They're no NDSU or UNI, but they're a decent football team (WAY better than Missouri State...but who isn't?). Swapping out YSU for UND would be a decent "trade".

With the current football conference setup though....nope.

As for $ for trips to the Dakotas? I think if they worked on scheduling a bit, they could make it work. Summit used to have men's BBall games on Th/Sat, for example...if they just made sure that each pair of "travel partners" ended up playing the ND teams during a Th/Sat pair, then it'd be ok. Fly up on Wednesday evening, play one ND team on Thursday, drive to the other on Friday morning, play the other ND team on Saturday, fly home on Sunday. They just have to do a better job of pairing up games/matches with the ND teams together, the SD teams together, the IN teams together, etc.

The travel partners concept really helps the bottom line, particularly when it comes to the Olympic sports. Two contests for the price of one flight (and a bus trip) really saves money compared to only getting one contest per flight.

UND's isolation is what is tearing into their budget and the budgets of their fellow Big Sky members. The original plan was supposed to include USD to give UND a travel partner, but since that fell through at the last minute, the Big Sky decided to honor the offer of admittance to North Dakota. Had USD not been part of the original plan, it would have been highly doubtful that UND would have been accepted as a member a Big Sky (regardless of what some people want to believe).

It doesn't seem likely the MVFC will open the door to UND in its current state, but I think it would be in the Fighting Hawks' best interest to join the Summit League and convince the Big Sky to keep them in football as an affiliate member. Travel partners aren't a thing in football due to the sport's refractory period and they might have some leverage since west coast members would likely be excited about not having to fly their soccer and volleyball teams to North Dakota for one contest.

I could see a UND/Big Sky divorce being very civil with a stipulation over the custody of the Fighting Hawks' football program.

[IBleedYellow]

The travel partners concept really helps the bottom line, particularly when it comes to the Olympic sports. Two contests for the price of one flight (and a bus trip) really saves money compared to only getting one contest per flight.

UND's isolation is what is tearing into their budget and the budgets of their fellow Big Sky members. The original plan was supposed to include USD to give UND a travel partner, but since that fell through at the last minute, the Big Sky decided to honor the offer of admittance to North Dakota. Had USD not been part of the original plan, it would have been highly doubtful that UND would have been accepted as a member a Big Sky (regardless of what some people want to believe).

It doesn't seem likely the MVFC will open the door to UND in its current state, but I think it would be in the Fighting Hawks' best interest to join the Summit League and convince the Big Sky to keep them in football as an affiliate member. Travel partners aren't a thing in football due to the sport's refractory period and they might have some leverage since west coast members would likely be excited about not having to fly their soccer and volleyball teams to North Dakota for one contest.

I could see a UND/Big Sky divorce being very civil with a stipulation over the custody of the Fighting Hawks' football program.
I think we're all in agreement that UND in the Summit makes sense.

Once the Valley for football starts being included is where it falls down quickly.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Herder]

ND should be in a leverage position to tell the Summit, ya I'll come to the Summit, but only if you I can get into Valley football. Otherwise pound sand. The Summit need ND more than the ND needs the summit IMO. ND needs to insist on combo platter ala USD.

[Schism55]

ND should be in a leverage position to tell the Summit, ya I'll come to the Summit, but only if you I can get into Valley football. Otherwise pound sand. The Summit need ND more than the ND needs the summit IMO. ND needs to insist on combo platter ala USD.
UND can insist all it wants, MVFC is not taking them as things stand, period.

[Thumper 76]

ND should be in a leverage position to tell the Summit, ya I'll come to the Summit, but only if you I can get into Valley football. Otherwise pound sand. The Summit need ND more than the ND needs the summit IMO. ND needs to insist on combo platter ala USD.

I don't think they have as much leverage as you think. They did when they had baseball. Now, not so much.

[Laker]

Selfishly, without knowing too many of the details I'd like to see YSU join the CAA which in theory should open the door for UND to get into the MVFC.

Has YSU or the CAA ever entertained that notion?

[jacksfan29]

ND should be in a leverage position to tell the Summit, ya I'll come to the Summit, but only if you I can get into Valley football. Otherwise pound sand. The Summit need ND more than the ND needs the summit IMO. ND needs to insist on combo platter ala USD.

Why does the Summit League need UND and why would any of the current Summit schools playing in the MVFC stick our necks out for UND? The USD situation was very different. USD were in the Summit and there were four schools backing their entry into the MVFC. SDSU/NDSU/WIU and more importantly UNI were all behind USD's entry for obvious reasons.

[jacksfan29]

UND can insist all it wants, MVFC is not taking them as things stand, period.

Turns out there is no need. UND are also leaving the BSC for the WAC. Found the below gem on the WAC Scout page from a certain UND poster most Bison fans are familiar with. Looks like the folks from the SLC better get ready for a WAC poaching party. :)

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=451&f=2368&t=14889565&p=2

Re: UND more cutbacks to fit T9, shift from BSC to Summit?

Here will be the new divisions (actual conferences):

WAC
UND
Montana
Montana St
Idaho
E Washington
N Colo (fb only)
Wichita St - fb only
Mo St - fb only
Lamar
SAM Houston St
UTRGV
NMSU (FBS)
UMKC - no fb
Denver - no fb
Chicago St ?

Big Sky
Port St
Sac St
Cal Poly fb only
UC Davis fb only
S Utah
N Ariz
Dixie St
Weber St
Idaho St
N Colo - but fb in the WAC until WAC goes FBS
UVU fb maybe later
Bake no fb
GCU no fb
Seattle no fb
Cal Baptist - later
AZUSA Pacific - later

The WAC will move to FBS later, like 2020. In the meantime, both conferences will be FCS.

[Bisonator]

ND should be in a leverage position to tell the Summit, ya I'll come to the Summit, but only if you I can get into Valley football. Otherwise pound sand. The Summit need ND more than the ND needs the summit IMO. ND needs to insist on combo platter ala USD.

LOL UND has no leverage. Especially without baseball. The Summit should demand they keep baseball if they want in.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Has YSU or the CAA ever entertained that notion?

I believe the answer is yes.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Has YSU or the CAA ever entertained that notion?

I'm "fairly confident" they have. Perhaps someone who's more "in the know" can provide more info.

Western PA/Northeast Ohio is very much a tweener region. With that said, Youngstown is very similar to Scranton, Pa.

[IBleedYellow]

Turns out there is no need. UND are also leaving the BSC for the WAC. Found the below gem on the WAC Scout page from a certain UND poster most Bison fans are familiar with. Looks like the folks from the SLC better get ready for a WAC poaching party. :)

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=451&f=2368&t=14889565&p=2

Re: UND more cutbacks to fit T9, shift from BSC to Summit?

Here will be the new divisions (actual conferences):

WAC
UND
Montana
Montana St
Idaho
E Washington
N Colo (fb only)
Wichita St - fb only
Mo St - fb only
Lamar
SAM Houston St
UTRGV
NMSU (FBS)
UMKC - no fb
Denver - no fb
Chicago St ?

Big Sky
Port St
Sac St
Cal Poly fb only
UC Davis fb only
S Utah
N Ariz
Dixie St
Weber St
Idaho St
N Colo - but fb in the WAC until WAC goes FBS
UVU fb maybe later
Bake no fb
GCU no fb
Seattle no fb
Cal Baptist - later
AZUSA Pacific - later

The WAC will move to FBS later, like 2020. In the meantime, both conferences will be FCS.
This guy has to know he's trolling hard, right?

You can't seriously think any of that will stick. Crazy pipedream.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Bisonoline]

This guy has to know he's trolling hard, right?

You can't seriously think any of that will stick. Crazy pipedream.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

His motto is--throw as much crap against the wall as you can no matter how idiotic or crazy. If some of it sticks he will remind how right he was. Of course he wont mention the million times he was dead azz wrong. Plus he a jerk.

The guy went so far to say that UND or BSC had curried favor with the NCAA and they would change the rules so they could go FBS with out a conference invite Or the BSC would move up as two division one FBS and one FCS. This was despite the conference commissioner saying he had given up on moving the BSC up as he couldn't sell it. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of these predictions.
The guy is flat out delusional.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

ND should be in a leverage position to tell the Summit, ya I'll come to the Summit, but only if you I can get into Valley football. Otherwise pound sand. The Summit need ND more than the ND needs the summit IMO. ND needs to insist on combo platter ala USD.


xlolx

Really?

UND does not have sh** for "leverage"......xlolx

[Bisonoline]

ND should be in a leverage position to tell the Summit, ya I'll come to the Summit, but only if you I can get into Valley football. Otherwise pound sand. The Summit need ND more than the ND needs the summit IMO. ND needs to insist on combo platter ala USD.

What does UND bring to the table?

[Thumper 76]

What does UND bring to the table?

This was what I was wondering, outside of a team that won't likely leave they don't bring a whole lot. Baseball is what needs another team to make the conference more stable. I'm not seeing where they have a lot of leverage here.

[POD Knows]

What does UND bring to the table?

Arrogance and the 138th ranked law school in the country? Flagship status.

[slostang]

Let UND become a football only member and take the rest of their sports to the Summit. Let Sac State become a football only member and take their other sports to the Big West. This leaves 10 full members and a much better travel situation for both the Big Sky non football sports and is better for both UND and Sac State. Split football into two 7 team divisions when Idaho returns. Win, win, win....

[Bisonoline]

This was what I was wondering, outside of a team that won't likely leave they don't bring a whole lot. Baseball is what needs another team to make the conference more stable. I'm not seeing where they have a lot of leverage here.

Thats right they bring nothing. None of there teams perform at a high lever except hockey which is a niche sport. Plus almost half of those teams are D2 and D3.

Conferences also look at academics. For some that component is actually more important than athletics and they do have a med school , law school and an aerospace program. But for the smaller conferences I dont think that is much of a bargaining chip.

[SDFS]

I always laugh when the USD and xDSU are yapping over what UND brings to the table. But, then talk about how great MidcoSN is... which UND basically started with Midco via hockey.

UND and Midco have announced a new 5 year contract.

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=211139193

5 year deal - UND will receive $1.425 million in rights fees over the length of the new contract. Live event broadcasts will once include all home men’s hockey games, all home football games, five men’s basketball games, five women’s basketball games, four women’s hockey games, and three volleyball matches.
Excited by the additional football cover included in the deal.

1) New to the agreement and effective for 2016-17 is a live, 60-minute program that will air on the morning of national signing day for football and will be repeated at least once per day for the following week. The signing day special will feature UND coaches and their analysis of the signing class.

2) Beginning in 2017, MidcoSN will produce a weekly UND football show, featuring in-studio guests, game analysis and feature profiles. This new programming addition will also allow for more exposure on UND Sports Extra for UND basketball, women’s hockey, and volleyball and all other UND sports.
'
Based on the statement in this press release - women's hockey is not going away.

[Bisonoline]

I always laugh when the USD and xDSU are yapping over what UND brings to the table. But, then talk about how great MidcoSN is... which UND basically started with Midco via hockey.

UND and Midco have announced a new 5 year contract.

http://www.undsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=211139193

5 year deal - UND will receive $1.425 million in rights fees over the length of the new contract. Live event broadcasts will once include all home men’s hockey games, all home football games, five men’s basketball games, five women’s basketball games, four women’s hockey games, and three volleyball matches.
Excited by the additional football cover included in the deal.

1) New to the agreement and effective for 2016-17 is a live, 60-minute program that will air on the morning of national signing day for football and will be repeated at least once per day for the following week. The signing day special will feature UND coaches and their analysis of the signing class.

2) Beginning in 2017, MidcoSN will produce a weekly UND football show, featuring in-studio guests, game analysis and feature profiles. This new programming addition will also allow for more exposure on UND Sports Extra for UND basketball, women’s hockey, and volleyball and all other UND sports.
'
Based on the statement in this press release - women's hockey is not going away.

So what does that have to do with what was being said? Who cares about your deal for hockey. LOL
That makes you attractive?

[SDFS]

So what does that have to do with what was being said? Who cares about your deal for hockey. LOL
That makes you attractive?

I think you missing the point - Because of MidcoSN it gives USD/SDSU football/basketball and NDSU basketball great coverage. Plus, Summit League coverage of its tournament. All of it started because of UND Hockey. Now, UND is leveraging it to increase more coverage for football. Its a great deal for the all the schools.

[Thumper 76]

I think you missing the point - Because of MidcoSN it gives USD/SDSU football/basketball and NDSU basketball great coverage. Plus, Summit League coverage of its tournament. All of it started because of UND Hockey. Now, UND is leveraging it to increase more coverage for football. Its a great deal for the all the schools.

Not sure why this is leverage for them to get into the summit league though? I mean, thanks, but your deal sounds pretty similar to what SDSU has. I don't know the dollar amount but I know SDSU and USeD have their own shows on Midco. That's not going to change if UND isn't allowed into the summit.

[Thumper 76]

Looks like I was right, didn't find what the dollar amount was for SDSU, but they are signed with Midco for ten years and USD got 3.05 million in equipment and cash for their new basketball facility and are signed for ten years.

[clenz]

I think you missing the point - Because of MidcoSN it gives USD/SDSU football/basketball and NDSU basketball great coverage. Plus, Summit League coverage of its tournament. All of it started because of UND Hockey. Now, UND is leveraging it to increase more coverage for football. Its a great deal for the all the schools.
Sure.

10-15 years ago, or whenever that deal was initially started for UND hockey you would certainly have had a point. At this point the other three Dakota schools are more than established in the Summit/MVFC. They are more than established on TV. They have more than established their name in the FCS.

To that point: what does UND bring to The Summit and the MVFC, that it doesn't already have? What new advantage do they give the conferences?

The Summit is looking for stability, so from that perspective UND could try to sell that. However, it seems that stability is more tied to the lack of baseball schools in the conference. Well, unless I missed the announcement UND baseball was saved the Hawks do nothing to help the Summit there. UND doesn't bring in a new TV market. No new radio market. No new recruiting grounds. No teams (okay, I don't know about the secondary sports level) that are overly competitive.

From the MVFC perspective there is no new TV market, no new radio market, no new recruiting grounds, and would become a bigger outlier than NDSU was when it joined. The reason NDSU and SDSU got votes is that the Gateway desperately needed teams to ensure they would maintain an auto-bid, and even still eastern schools weren't happy with the travel but with it only being two it could be garunteed that only one trip to the Dakotas was needed. USD was added in 2012 (a situation you know all to well) much to more contention from eastern schools as it meant 2 trips west. HOWEVER, MVC schools knew that it stabilized The Summit, which stabilized the MVFC, thus leading to MVC schools voting for USD.

UND doesn't offer stability to either conference right now.

Fair, or not, the only thing UND offers The MVFC (from an MVC perspective) is 24/7 drama, threats of lawsuits, indecisiveness, and a "meh" program along the lines of Indiana State, YSU or WIU most years....but rather than being in Illinois or on the Indiana/Illinois border UND is 6.93 miles from the Canadian border. From Grand Forks you are damn near a half hour closer to Canada than Fargo....and Fargo is way the hell up there.

So again, with all of that being laid out there, what does UND offer us that we don't have and what would we be missing out on?

[IBleedYellow]

Sure.

10-15 years ago, or whenever that deal was initially started for UND hockey you would certainly have had a point. At this point the other three Dakota schools are more than established in the Summit/MVFC. They are more than established on TV. They have more than established their name in the FCS.

To that point: what does UND bring to The Summit and the MVFC, that it doesn't already have? What new advantage do they give the conferences?

The Summit is looking for stability, so from that perspective UND could try to sell that. However, it seems that stability is more tied to the lack of baseball schools in the conference. Well, unless I missed the announcement UND baseball was saved the Hawks do nothing to help the Summit there. UND doesn't bring in a new TV market. No new radio market. No new recruiting grounds. No teams (okay, I don't know about the secondary sports level) that are overly competitive.

From the MVFC perspective there is no new TV market, no new radio market, no new recruiting grounds, and would become a bigger outlier than NDSU was when it joined. The reason NDSU and SDSU got votes is that the Gateway desperately needed teams to ensure they would maintain an auto-bid, and even still eastern schools weren't happy with the travel but with it only being two it could be garunteed that only one trip to the Dakotas was needed. USD was added in 2012 (a situation you know all to well) much to more contention from eastern schools as it meant 2 trips west. HOWEVER, MVC schools knew that it stabilized The Summit, which stabilized the MVFC, thus leading to MVC schools voting for USD.

UND doesn't offer stability to either conference right now.

Fair, or not, the only thing UND offers The MVFC (from an MVC perspective) is 24/7 drama, threats of lawsuits, indecisiveness, and a "meh" program along the lines of Indiana State, YSU or WIU most years....but rather than being in Illinois or on the Indiana/Illinois border UND is 6.93 miles from the Canadian border. From Grand Forks you are damn near a half hour closer to Canada than Fargo....and Fargo is way the hell up there.

So again, with all of that being laid out there, what does UND offer us that we don't have and what would we be missing out on?

Must spread rep around.

UND thinks they are a better program than the currently are in the grand scheme of Division I sports.

They do have hockey.

- - - Updated - - -


Sure.

10-15 years ago, or whenever that deal was initially started for UND hockey you would certainly have had a point. At this point the other three Dakota schools are more than established in the Summit/MVFC. They are more than established on TV. They have more than established their name in the FCS.

To that point: what does UND bring to The Summit and the MVFC, that it doesn't already have? What new advantage do they give the conferences?

The Summit is looking for stability, so from that perspective UND could try to sell that. However, it seems that stability is more tied to the lack of baseball schools in the conference. Well, unless I missed the announcement UND baseball was saved the Hawks do nothing to help the Summit there. UND doesn't bring in a new TV market. No new radio market. No new recruiting grounds. No teams (okay, I don't know about the secondary sports level) that are overly competitive.

From the MVFC perspective there is no new TV market, no new radio market, no new recruiting grounds, and would become a bigger outlier than NDSU was when it joined. The reason NDSU and SDSU got votes is that the Gateway desperately needed teams to ensure they would maintain an auto-bid, and even still eastern schools weren't happy with the travel but with it only being two it could be garunteed that only one trip to the Dakotas was needed. USD was added in 2012 (a situation you know all to well) much to more contention from eastern schools as it meant 2 trips west. HOWEVER, MVC schools knew that it stabilized The Summit, which stabilized the MVFC, thus leading to MVC schools voting for USD.

UND doesn't offer stability to either conference right now.

Fair, or not, the only thing UND offers The MVFC (from an MVC perspective) is 24/7 drama, threats of lawsuits, indecisiveness, and a "meh" program along the lines of Indiana State, YSU or WIU most years....but rather than being in Illinois or on the Indiana/Illinois border UND is 6.93 miles from the Canadian border. From Grand Forks you are damn near a half hour closer to Canada than Fargo....and Fargo is way the hell up there.

So again, with all of that being laid out there, what does UND offer us that we don't have and what would we be missing out on?

Must spread rep around.

UND thinks they are a better program than the currently are in the grand scheme of Division I sports.

They do have hockey.

[F'N Hawks]

xpopcornx Love learning more about my school from knowledgeable sources.

[IBleedYellow]

Looks like I was right, didn't find what the dollar amount was for SDSU, but they are signed with Midco for ten years and USD got 3.05 million in equipment and cash for their new basketball facility and are signed for ten years.


Ten years?!?!

That's not exactly a great deal. I'm surprised they would lock in for such a long time.

I also find it funny that they are trying to claim credit for MidcoSN coming to the other Dakota schools. You have got to be kidding me.

- - - Updated - - -


xpopcornx Love learning more about my school from knowledgeable sources.

When your school is pretty ****ty it's really easy to learn about how terrible it is. xthumbsupx

[F'N Hawks]

Ten years?!?!

When your school is pretty ****ty it's really easy to learn about how terrible it is. xthumbsupx

Case in point. The board is better with you here.

[Thumper 76]

xpopcornx Love learning more about my school from knowledgeable sources.

Then answer the question of what UND would bring to the Summit and where we're wrong salty.

[clenz]

xpopcornx Love learning more about my school from knowledgeable sources.
Answer my question.

Given what we know, and what currently exists in the MVFC/Summit, what does UND bring that isn't already there?

Take all the credit for MidCo if you want. IDGAF who/how it started. I really don't. I'll give UND 1000000% credit for all of the Midco.

Even with that, what added value does UND bring?

I'm asking you to teach me. I'm asking for information to better form my opinion. Tell me something I don't know.

[F'N Hawks]

Then answer the question of what UND would bring to the Summit and where we're wrong salty.

Ask Douple and all the Presidents. They are the one's that make the decisions, not rube MVFC fans. UND can join the Summit any time they want, nothing has changed along those lines. Douple calls up to Faison at least twice a year, that is straight from the athletic department. The relationship is not as toxic as the XSDU fans want it to be.

State school, 325m+ endowment, solid academic profile, outstanding facilities, big alumni base. That will take care of it every time. How a certain sports program is now has ZERO bearing on whether a school gets into a league.

[F'N Hawks]

Talking to multiple media members in Fargo, the best thing that could happen to the MVFC is Youngstown leaving to go east and UND joining. This is not the 90's. That is straight from all their mouths and they all talk with other members throughout the season.

But I could have heard them wrong.

[clenz]

Talking to multiple media members in Fargo, the best thing that could happen to the MVFC is Youngstown leaving to go east and UND joining. This is not the 90's. That is straight from all their mouths and they all talk with other members throughout the season.

But I could have heard them wrong.
There is zero secrets the MVFC wants YSU to pass on. None. No one has ever hidden that. YSU fans hate me because I constantly remind them how little I want them in the conference. They were added in 1997, a year after EIU left. In 1996 the MVFC had 6 teams. That's a damn dangerous spot for a football conference to be in. YSU was added as a safety blanket.

WKU joined in 01 and left in 06. That meant the Gateway was down to 7 and the start of positioning for shifting was happening so re-solidifying the conference was a priority so the

XDSUs were added for 08 giving the conference a solid 9 members and true round robin champion

USD joining in 2012 ended the true round robin and really increased the "YSU can leave any time now" thinking from MVFC fans/admins

The goal for the MVFC is a true round robin. Losing one to be immediately replaced does nothing to get there.

The best thing for the MVFC is YSU leaving.....period...end of sentence...nothing else added.

[Thumper 76]

Ask Douple and all the Presidents. They are the one's that make the decisions, not rube MVFC fans. UND can join the Summit any time they want, nothing has changed along those lines. Douple calls up to Faison at least twice a year, that is straight from the athletic department. The relationship is not as toxic as the XSDU fans want it to be.

State school, 325m+ endowment, solid academic profile, outstanding facilities, big alumni base. That will take care of it every time. How a certain sports program is now has ZERO bearing on whether a school gets into a league.

Hey, look there! At the end you provided an argument. I like it. See, under that crusty salty exterior there's a contribution. I knew you had it in you.

Anyways, beyond that, I'm sure the Summit would take UND. No doubt in my mind. The part I'm not sure on is how they have some massive leverage to get themselves into the MVFC along with it. That's the part I'm not seeing I guess. And I'm sure they did call twice a year when UND had baseball, I'm not sure if they will now. The desperation is from barely having enough baseball teams in conference to qualify for the NCAA post season auto bid, and without it the Summit doesn't sponsor enough sports to keep its basketball autobid. That's why with dropping baseball everyone is questioning what leverage UND has now. Baseball was a huge bargaining chip, and UND is throwing it away. With baseball they could be in a position to leverage themselves into the MVFC, I don't see it without it. If UND wants the Summit schools to try to get them into the MVFC I'll bet they get told to keep baseball if they want that to happen.

[clenz]

Hey, look there! At the end you provided an argument. I like it. See, under that crusty salty exterior there's a contribution. I knew you had it in you.

Anyways, beyond that, I'm sure the Summit would take UND. No doubt in my mind. The part I'm not sure on is how they have some massive leverage to get themselves into the MVFC along with it. That's the part I'm not seeing I guess. And I'm sure they did call twice a year when UND had baseball, I'm not sure if they will now. The desperation is from barely having enough baseball teams in conference to qualify for the NCAA post season auto bid, and without it the Summit doesn't sponsor enough sports to keep its basketball autobid. That's why with dropping baseball everyone is questioning what leverage UND has now. Baseball was a huge bargaining chip, and UND is throwing it away. With baseball they could be in a position to leverage themselves into the MVFC, I don't see it without it. If UND wants the Summit schools to try to get them into the MVFC I'll bet they get told to keep baseball if they want that to happen.
Yep.

The only thing that UND offers the MVFC...and I do mean the only thing...is a stable Summit League. That is all tied directly to baseball.

No baseball at UND means no leverage to make UNI, ISU, ISU, SIU, MSU vote for you. No leverage for YSU to vote either....though YSU doesn't matter.

[F'N Hawks]

Hey, look there! At the end you provided an argument. I like it. See, under that crusty salty exterior there's a contribution. I knew you had it in you.

Anyways, beyond that, I'm sure the Summit would take UND. No doubt in my mind. The part I'm not sure on is how they have some massive leverage to get themselves into the MVFC along with it. That's the part I'm not seeing I guess. And I'm sure they did call twice a year when UND had baseball, I'm not sure if they will now. The desperation is from barely having enough baseball teams in conference to qualify for the NCAA post season auto bid, and without it the Summit doesn't sponsor enough sports to keep its basketball autobid. That's why with dropping baseball everyone is questioning what leverage UND has now. Baseball was a huge bargaining chip, and UND is throwing it away. With baseball they could be in a position to leverage themselves into the MVFC, I don't see it without it. If UND wants the Summit schools to try to get them into the MVFC I'll bet they get told to keep baseball if they want that to happen.

They obviously don't or it would be done by now. Who said they did?

The baseball thing is a weird deal. There was a power or two at certain schools that wouldn't let it happen as an affiliate member, not sure who. But the head baseball coaches were begging for UND to join, for obvious reasons.

[IBleedYellow]

They obviously don't or it would be done by now. Who said they did?

The baseball thing is a weird deal. There was a power or two at certain schools that wouldn't let it happen as an affiliate member, not sure who. But the head baseball coaches were begging for UND to join, for obvious reasons.

What's the obvious reason? Baseball is GONE. I don't know how many times we can reiterate this.

Adding UND without baseball literally adds nothing with regards to stability to the conference.

[Thumper 76]

They obviously don't or it would be done by now. Who said they did?

The baseball thing is a weird deal. There was a power or two at certain schools that wouldn't let it happen as an affiliate member, not sure who. But the head baseball coaches were begging for UND to join, for obvious reasons.

Man, I must be crazy I thought I had read a UND fan say that, but I can't find the post so I guess I'm retarded. My apologies.

Either way, I still think that UND in the Summit and football only in the Big Sky would be the best current option when you look at all the conference situations overall. I don't know why the Big Sky schools would be against getting all those long trips gone for their secondary sports, UND gets to have games against all the Dakota schools in basketball, and the MVFC doesn't want to add another school and make the conference schedule more unbalanced than it already is. If a couple schools leave the MVFC (YSU, MSU to FunBelt?) then UND can always join. My perfect MVFC would be without YSU and either MSU or Indy St replaced by UND.

[F'N Hawks]

Man, I must be crazy I thought I had read a UND fan say that, but I can't find the post so I guess I'm retarded. My apologies.

Either way, I still think that UND in the Summit and football only in the Big Sky would be the best current option when you look at all the conference situations overall. I don't know why the Big Sky schools would be against getting all those long trips gone for their secondary sports, UND gets to have games against all the Dakota schools in basketball, and the MVFC doesn't want to add another school and make the conference schedule more unbalanced than it already is. If a couple schools leave the MVFC (YSU, MSU to FunBelt?) then UND can always join. My perfect MVFC would be without YSU and either MSU or Indy St replaced by UND.

I am sure every Big Sky school would gladly let UND walk away. The Presidents like the profile but the athletic departments hate the travel. UND alone cost Sac State an extra $100,000 a year in travel for all sports.

[IBleedYellow]

Man, I must be crazy I thought I had read a UND fan say that, but I can't find the post so I guess I'm retarded. My apologies.

Either way, I still think that UND in the Summit and football only in the Big Sky would be the best current option when you look at all the conference situations overall. I don't know why the Big Sky schools would be against getting all those long trips gone for their secondary sports, UND gets to have games against all the Dakota schools in basketball, and the MVFC doesn't want to add another school and make the conference schedule more unbalanced than it already is. If a couple schools leave the MVFC (YSU, MSU to FunBelt?) then UND can always join. My perfect MVFC would be without YSU and either MSU or Indy St replaced by UND.

This is about right. I want the Valley to be a true round robin. If UND can join, cool. If not, oh well.

I want the Valley to be round robin first and foremost.



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[geaux_sioux]

If you want YSU and/or MSU to leave the MVFC why wait for it to happen? Make them uncomfortable by adding UND. That extra travel might incentivize them to leave for a conference that better fits their geography.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Man, I must be crazy I thought I had read a UND fan say that, but I can't find the post so I guess I'm retarded. My apologies.

Either way, I still think that UND in the Summit and football only in the Big Sky would be the best current option when you look at all the conference situations overall. I don't know why the Big Sky schools would be against getting all those long trips gone for their secondary sports, UND gets to have games against all the Dakota schools in basketball, and the MVFC doesn't want to add another school and make the conference schedule more unbalanced than it already is. If a couple schools leave the MVFC (YSU, MSU to FunBelt?) then UND can always join. My perfect MVFC would be without YSU and either MSU or Indy St replaced by UND.

You will never get to see the Trees leave, and the only way MSU leaves is for all sports to an FBS conference.

[clenz]

This is about right. I want the Valley to be a true round robin. If UND can join, cool. If not, oh well.

I want the Valley to be round robin first and foremost.



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Indiana State is going nowhere except back towards the bottom of the conference. They don't seem to have the donors/commitment to make any kind of move beyond what has already been done.

I think an idea MVFC would be exactly what it is minus YSU. Should MSU leave, as they seem eager to do for god knows what reason*, that would mean the MVC would be done a school. That means the MVC is adding a school and where a NMSU could come into play.

The MVC is such a mess that I don't want to think about what happens next time we need to replace someone.xsmhx


*Only reason I can think of is MSU seems to think it's the MVC's fault they can't make the NCAAs in basketball and moving to a worse basketball conference is their best bet to make it

[UNIFanSince1983]

If you want YSU and/or MSU to leave the MVFC why wait for it to happen? Make them uncomfortable by adding UND. That extra travel might incentivize them to leave for a conference that better fits their geography.

The problem is the MVC schools will stay together on this one. So no one would likely make MSU or ISUb uncomfortable by just adding UND.

[Thumper 76]

You will never get to see the Trees leave, and the only way MSU leaves is for all sports to an FBS conference.

Go FunBelt Go!

[clenz]

If you want YSU and/or MSU to leave the MVFC why wait for it to happen? Make them uncomfortable by adding UND. That extra travel might incentivize them to leave for a conference that better fits their geography.
Here's the thing...

We want YSU to leave to get to a true round robin. Getting YSU to leave by adding a team doesn't accomplish that. It does the opposite as YSU isn't leaving without an all sport CAA invite or MAC invite.

MSU leaving isn't good for the MVFC. It creates a mess for the MVC schools to deal with and could start a chain reaction there.

MSU doesn't give a **** about traveling to the Dakota's. They are on an island so they fly no matter what.

[IBleedYellow]

If you want YSU and/or MSU to leave the MVFC why wait for it to happen? Make them uncomfortable by adding UND. That extra travel might incentivize them to leave for a conference that better fits their geography.
We're just fans...

We have almost no bearing haha.

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[IBleedYellow]

Indiana State is going nowhere except back towards the bottom of the conference. They don't seem to have the donors/commitment to make any kind of move beyond what has already been done.

I think an idea MVFC would be exactly what it is minus YSU. Should MSU leave, as they seem eager to do for god knows what reason*, that would mean the MVC would be done a school. That means the MVC is adding a school and where a NMSU could come into play.

The MVC is such a mess that I don't want to think about what happens next time we need to replace someone.xsmhx


*Only reason I can think of is MSU seems to think it's the MVC's fault they can't make the NCAAs in basketball and moving to a worse basketball conference is their best bet to make it
xDSU's to the Valley, confirmed!



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[Thumper 76]

If you want YSU and/or MSU to leave the MVFC why wait for it to happen? Make them uncomfortable by adding UND. That extra travel might incentivize them to leave for a conference that better fits their geography.

The problem with that is in order to add them the eastern schools will most likely insist on keeping their schedule with the least amount of travel to the West as possible, like when USD was added. Add in the fact that adding UND will make it so you won't be playing two teams in conference every year, they would be able to make it so they get to not play two western schools, just like they get to not play one right now as it is. So really it wouldn't add any travel pressure to them, and would really screw the western schools. You already have UNI and SDSU playing at two of SDSU/NDSU/UNI every other year, and getting situations like ISUr last year missing NDSU and getting to be "Co-champs" while the west schools have to play all the top schools most every year. Adding UND would make that schedule even more unbalanced. Would anybody be happy if YSU or ISUr won the autobid without having to play NDSU and UNI? Or NDSU and SDSU? That's getting to drop two top 25 teams, more often top 10-15 teams off your schedule. That's why I'm against having UND in the MVFC right now. Shoot, SDSU's conference schedule is brutal this year as it is, having to play at UNI, NDSU, and ISUr.

[clenz]

xDSU's to the Valley, confirmed!



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At this point...

PUMP IT UP!!!!11!!1!!!!!1!!!!1!111!!11!!!!11!


I'm sick of schools like Loyola getting ****ing added or schools like UW-M, UM-KC, UN-O, etc... being added/rumored. Real ****ing sick of it. I'm famous around Bisonville for what I said years ago on the MVC.

What I said was 10000% true at that time, and I stand by what I said when I said it. At this point? **** it. The private schools are what is holding the damn conference back. **** them. SDSU and NDSU probably have a similar ceiling to ISUr if they grow properly at this point. Though both are significantly behind on spending in mens basketball at this point. I'd rather see that than ****ing dip**** Loyola or Evansville part 2.

[clenz]

The problem with that is in order to add them the eastern schools will most likely insist on keeping their schedule with the least amount of travel to the West as possible, like when USD was added. Add in the fact that adding UND will make it so you won't be playing two teams in conference every year, they would be able to make it so they get to not play two western schools, just like they get to not play one right now as it is. So really it wouldn't add any travel pressure to them, and would really screw the western schools. You already have UNI and SDSU playing at two of SDSU/NDSU/UNI every other year, and getting situations like ISUr last year missing NDSU and getting to be "Co-champs" while the west schools have to play all the top schools most every year. Adding UND would make that schedule even more unbalanced. Would anybody be happy if YSU or ISUr won the autobid without having to play NDSU and UNI? Or NDSU and SDSU? That's getting to drop two top 25 teams, more often top 10-15 teams off your schedule. That's why I'm against having UND in the MVFC right now. Shoot, SDSU's conference schedule is brutal this year as it is, having to play at UNI, NDSU, and ISUr.
http://static4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Sir+thank+you+so+much+valuable+lesson+_0dcb372db16 e5f026342005fa0cffc2d.gif

[IBleedYellow]

Hahahaha. I was kidding. I still don't think we ever get into the Valley.

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[clenz]

Hahahaha. I was kidding. I still don't think we ever get into the Valley.

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I wasn't kidding.

**** it.

[Thumper 76]

I wasn't kidding.

**** it.

Honestly at this point what programs could the MVC hope to add that are as strong as the XDSUs? Also, I really think SDSU got a really really good coach by hiring Otz. I am seriously asking though, i know you're way more up on this than I am.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Honestly at this point what programs could the MVC hope to add that are as strong as the XDSUs? Also, I really think SDSU got a really really good coach by hiring Otz. I am seriously asking though, i know you're way more up on this than I am.

He was for sure a recruiting wiz at Iowa State. I think he will be a great coach for SDSU. Although I wouldn't have expected anything less than a great hire by Justin Sell.

[Hammersmith]

Man, I must be crazy I thought I had read a UND fan say that, but I can't find the post so I guess I'm retarded. My apologies.

Either way, I still think that UND in the Summit and football only in the Big Sky would be the best current option when you look at all the conference situations overall. I don't know why the Big Sky schools would be against getting all those long trips gone for their secondary sports, UND gets to have games against all the Dakota schools in basketball, and the MVFC doesn't want to add another school and make the conference schedule more unbalanced than it already is. If a couple schools leave the MVFC (YSU, MSU to FunBelt?) then UND can always join. My perfect MVFC would be without YSU and either MSU or Indy St replaced by UND.

There was a post that started this, but it came from a (apparently uneducated) NDSU fan. He used the leverage comment, everyone else jumped on him, other stuff was said about UND, UND fans argued against that, and everyone got confused as to who was defending what. Another day on the internet.

[clenz]

Honestly at this point what programs could the MVC hope to add that are as strong as the XDSUs? Also, I really think SDSU got a really really good coach by hiring Otz. I am seriously asking though, i know you're way more up on this than I am.
Very few.

Valpo - However, yet to see what life is like post Drew family. Bryce was known for his shot in 98 against Ole Miss. He played for his dad. He took over as coach and continued to build a winning culture. He's now gone. This is the first time since 1987 a Drew (Homer, Scott, or Bryce) hasn't been in charge. Life pre Homer Drew was miserable. What's it like post Drew?

Belmont - Rick Byrd is getting up there in age though and does beating up on the ASUN and OVC translate?

The next few are "pipe dreams

Dayton
SLU
NMSU

That's about it.

I think the xDSU's would be in for a relatively rude awakening up front as to what being MVC actually entails. The bottom of the league is attorciously bad, but the top 4 or 5 are still pretty damn good

[ST_Lawson]

Honestly at this point what programs could the MVC hope to add that are as strong as the XDSUs? Also, I really think SDSU got a really really good coach by hiring Otz. I am seriously asking though, i know you're way more up on this than I am.

Yup. As much as I'd love for us to get into the MVC (we had a shot...years ago...and we blew it) and as much as I'd hate losing the XDSU's in the Summit, I think they're probably the best realistic options out there at this point.

[Laker]

Indiana State is going nowhere except back towards the bottom of the conference. They don't seem to have the donors/commitment to make any kind of move beyond what has already been done.

Clenz, any chance that they would do what Eastern Illinois did and join the OVC?

[Thumper 76]

Yup. As much as I'd love for us to get into the MVC (we had a shot...years ago...and we blew it) and as much as I'd hate losing the XDSU's in the Summit, I think they're probably the best realistic options out there at this point.

If the XDSUs left it would really screw the Summit hard. I don't know if SDSU would be allowed to leave without USeD or not. It would certainly cause a lot of unhappiness if they got to leave for a better conference and ruined the conference that USeD was in simultaneously. As much as I would enjoy that I have a hard time seeing the BOR letting that happen. Maybe I'm way off base and there's nothing the state could do to stop it though.

[Thumper 76]

There was a post that started this, but it came from a (apparently uneducated) NDSU fan. He used the leverage comment, everyone else jumped on him, other stuff was said about UND, UND fans argued against that, and everyone got confused as to who was defending what. Another day on the internet.

Ahhhhh, good, I'm not crazy :D

[clenz]

Clenz, any chance that they would do what Eastern Illinois did and join the OVC?
I doubt it. They are committed to the MVC and want to put effort into that side of it, I just don't see football getting the resources it needs to be anything more than a 5 or 6 win team with occasional 7 wins seasons - on the high side.

EIU left the MidCon (Summit) and MVFC in 1995 because they got sick of getting beat. They'll talk about how they went 10-2 in 1995 and parlayed that into a better opportunity but it's not true. Look at the years leading up to that




1987
Bob Spoo






5

6

0

0.45455

159

200

-41



1988
Bob Spoo






5

6

0

0.45455

204

209

-5



1989
Bob Spoo






9

4

0

0.69231

278

180

98



1990
Bob Spoo






5

6

0

0.45455

180

219

-39



1991
Bob Spoo






4

7

0

0.36364

307

264

43



1992
Bob Spoo






5

6

0

0.45455

276

295

-19



1993
Bob Spoo






3

7

1

0.31818

250

310

-60



1994
Bob Spoo






6

5

0

0.54545

253

232

21




Where they finished in the Gateway leading up to that:
85: 5th of 6
86: 1st of 7
87: 4th of 7
88: 6th of 7
89: 4th of 7
90: 5th of 7
91: 6th of 7
92: tied for last
93: 5th of 7
94: 3rd of 7
95: tied for 1st

They weren't doing so hot in the MidCon and saw a chance to get all sports into one conference they perceived as being easier to win in. I guess they were wrong in the long haul.


I don't see ISU jumping to the OVC. No rivals. They've been in the MVC since 1976 and MVFC from it's founding. They've just fallen behind schools like WSU, UNI, ISUr, Creighton (while in conference) in terms of funding. They had an AD/president that set them back as well. I don't think they'll be winless bad again, but I see a 4-6 win football team and a 5th or so place basketball program. That's likely "good enough" for them to stay where they are.

[BisonFan02]

**** the MVC. Add UND to the Summit and start our own football league. :D

[Schism55]

Lot's of good takes in the last 5-6 pages of this thread.
Well done AGS, rounding into mid-season form!

[Bisonator]

**** the MVC. Add UND to the Summit and start our own football league. :D

Combine the best schools from the MVC/MVFC/Summit into an all sports league.:D

[clenz]

Combine the best schools from the MVC/MVFC/Summit into an all sports league.:D
So....add NDSU and SDSU to the MVC then...

[IBleedYellow]

So....add NDSU and SDSU to the MVC then...


We could even call it the Missourippi Valley Conference!

[clenz]

We could even call it the Missourippi Valley Conference!
Still doesn't explain Missouri State, Indiana State or Wichita State...but we'll go with it.

[Bisonator]

So....add NDSU and SDSU to the MVC then...

Not exactly. Most of the MVC privates do nothing for me.

[clenz]

Not exactly. Most of the MVC privates do nothing for me.
Me either at this point.

However, WSU, ISUR and if SIU, Bradley and MSU could ever figure their **** out, do

The only Summit teams I'd want is the XDSUs. Thus, adding them to the MVC would likely drive Evansville, Loyola to the Horizon, where they belong and we've got our league.

[IBleedYellow]

So one thing I am unsure of: Do UND fans actually want into the Summit and Valley?

[BisonBacker]

**** the MVC. Add UND to the Summit and start our own football league. :D

*uck that idea. xcoffeex

[Hammersmith]

So one thing I am unsure of: Do UND fans actually want into the Summit and Valley?

It varies. There are rational fans in both camps and irrational fans in both camps. Some want to be in the Summit/MVFC because the other Dakota schools are in it, and others don't want to be in it for the same reason. Some like the Midwestern geography of the Summit/MVFC, some like the western geography of the Big Sky. Some focus only on the Montanas in the BSC and the IPFW/IUPUI types in the Summit; others focus on the Sac & Port St types in the BSC and the xDSU and ORU types in the Summit.

There are even fans who are completely rational 99% of the time, but seem to be completely irrational on this one issue.

[Southern Bison]

Not exactly. Most of the MVC privates do nothing for me.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160823/4f5210023cabda84a5ebd035748e069e.jpg

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[geaux_sioux]

So one thing I am unsure of: Do UND fans actually want into the Summit and Valley?
The majority do. The Big Sky is pretty cool in a lot of ways but it just does't fit geographically. The Montanas are the only ones that seem like peers.

Here's my star2volley take on an ideal conference. UND NDSU SDSU USD UM MSU NIU UNC WIU UNO<- brings back football. Obviously it won't happen but that would be the ultimate FCS conference.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

*uck that idea. xcoffeex


Summit would be fine but not the Valley as of now.

This thread has been a good read today.

[BisonFan02]

*uck that idea. xcoffeex

Yeah? Well.....**** your idea. xlolx

[Bisonator]

Me either at this point.

However, WSU, ISUR and if SIU, Bradley and MSU could ever figure their **** out, do

The only Summit teams I'd want is the XDSUs. Thus, adding them to the MVC would likely drive Evansville, Loyola to the Horizon, where they belong and we've got our league.

UNI, SIU, ISUR, and MSU from the MVC.

NDSU, SDSU, USD and WIU from the Summit.

Add UND to get a round robin in FB.

Add WSU & UNO for all other sports.

[BisonFan02]

UNI, SIU, ISUR, and MSU from the MVC.

NDSU, SDSU, USD and WIU from the Summit.

Add UND to get a round robin in FB.

Add WSU & UNO for all other sports.

Oh.....WSU is ALL over that..........or nah. Good first swing though.

[Bisonator]

Oh.....WSU is ALL over that..........or nah. Good first swing though.

**** them. They are gone anyway.

[BisonFan02]

**** them. They are gone anyway.

Yup! Tom Douple for President! Make the Summit great again. :D

[IBleedYellow]

Yup! Tom Douple for President! Make the Summit great again. :D

You're getting crazier year by year.

I think you and POD need to talk...so you don't end up like him.

[POD Knows]

You're getting crazier year by year.

I think you and POD need to talk...so you don't end up like him.

**** the hell up IBY or I will put in the trunk of my car and take for a ride in the country. :D

[Bisonator]

Yup! Tom Douple for President! Make the Summit great again. :D

Again? I don't think it's ever been better has it?

[clenz]

UNI, SIU, ISUR, and MSU from the MVC.

NDSU, SDSU, USD and WIU from the Summit.

Add UND to get a round robin in FB.

Add WSU & UNO for all other sports.

Pass. Eleventy billion times pass.

You will never, ever, ever, get UNI to start a conference with ****ing WIU, USD, UNO, UND. Just ****ing no.

Burn that with fire.


You are in the strongest drugs in the world if you think WSU even lets you finish that sentence. UNI as well. Both at top 50 basketball programs that pay their coaches more than what all of those schools spend on basketball total.

**** that.

NDSU and SDSU in the valley is one thing. That abomination belongs locked away in the basement of Alcatraz.

[Bisonator]

Pass. Eleventy billion times pass.

You will never, ever, ever, get UNI to start a conference with ****ing WIU, USD, UNO, UND. Just ****ing no.

Burn that with fire.


You are in the strongest drugs in the world if you think WSU even lets you finish that sentence. UNI as well. Both at top 50 basketball programs that pay their coaches more than what all of those schools spend on basketball total.

**** that.

NDSU and SDSU in the valley is one thing. That abomination belongs locked away in the basement of Alcatraz.
Lol UNI has one ****ing sweet sixteen appearance in 35 years. Spend all you want.

[BisonFan02]

Lol UNI has one ****ing sweet sixteen appearance in 35 years. Spend all you want.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/mjl.gif

[Gil Dobie]

Lol UNI has one ****ing sweet sixteen appearance in 35 years. Spend all you want.

MVC is a strong basketball conference, I can't see any team leaving for a Summit type conference. Most schools strive to move up, not down. The MVFC is solid right now. Only need to add a team if one leaves.

[IBleedYellow]

Just like clockwork, all of the North Dakota media is now starting to apply pressure to the MVFC to get UND invited.

Stupid.

[clenz]

I can't see YSU, ISUB, ISUR, or SIU voting for UND unless UND somehow, magically, sells the idea that if they aren't in the Summit that the Summit will collapose and lose it's NCAA autobid status and teams will go looking elsewhere.

Any amount of research shows that isn't the case but maybe they catch the AD's sleeping.

Chances are that gets the ball rollings on the XDSU's to the MVC.

UNI is a wild card. New AD. New visions for what he wants to do. Dannen always voted for what was best for the conference, even if UNI wasn't benefited directly. No idea what Harris will do.

I think they'd need at least 6, if not 7, yes votes.

YSU, ISUb and at least two of ISUr, MSU, SIU and UNI will be a no unless some magic bean scenario happens. Even if every single Summit team votes yes they need at least half of the MVC to vote yes...plus YSU

[IBleedYellow]

I am 99% sure that UND won't be admitted into the Valley.

NDSU would theoretically be the only for sure "YES" vote. That's because they would be crucified when the media would find out they voted no.

It's just such a lame tactic that the ND media uses with these two schools.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Have they tried a bake sale or a car wash to raise the funds yet?

[jacksfan29]

I can't see YSU, ISUB, ISUR, or SIU voting for UND unless UND somehow, magically, sells the idea that if they aren't in the Summit that the Summit will collapose and lose it's NCAA autobid status and teams will go looking elsewhere.

Any amount of research shows that isn't the case but maybe they catch the AD's sleeping.

Chances are that gets the ball rollings on the XDSU's to the MVC.



For that to happen you would need SDSU, NDSU, USD and WIU to go along with the UND plan. Won't happen. At SDSU Sell's allegiance, and connection is to the MVC schools. There is nothing in it for SDSU to follow UND down that rabbit hole.

The only way UND gets an MVFC invite is if there is another addition along with UND taking the conference to 12, or someone (two schools) choosing to depart. After hearing what the UND President said this week, I think it is more likely they pursue Summit membership for Olympic and ask to be a FB affiliate member of the BSC. Which is something I think the BSC would be open to.

[F'N Hawks]

For that to happen you would need SDSU, NDSU, USD and WIU to go along with the UND plan. Won't happen. At SDSU Sell's allegiance, and connection is to the MVC schools. There is nothing in it for SDSU to follow UND down that rabbit hole.

The only way UND gets an MVFC invite is if there is another addition along with UND taking the conference to 12, or someone (two schools) choosing to depart. After hearing what the UND President said this week, I think it is more likely they pursue Summit membership for Olympic and ask to be a FB affiliate member of the BSC. Which is something I think the BSC would be open to.

Your sources tell you that's a likely option?

[Thumper 76]

Your sources tell you that's a likely option?

How DARE he state his opinion on a message board!!!

[jacksfan29]

Your sources tell you that's a likely option?

Did you hear what your own President stated in regards to BSC travel affecting the budget and did I say I had sources? Seems to be speculation on my part. If I need to bring out a dictionary and provide the definition of speculation I can do so, just for you. As for the BSC, yes; I believe (see speculation definition) without a doubt UND would get a majority, if not unanimous yes vote as a FB only affiliate member.

I realize the BSC is your dream conference but it would seem your new President disagrees (see his quotes on costs). Or is it a ploy by him to fake out the media while he, behind the scenes creates a WAC/FBS Super Conference?

Holy crap UND fans are hard to deal with. Just a messed up bunch. I used to think the NDSU fans were too hard on UND... how wrong I was.

[Thumper 76]

Your sources tell you that's a likely option?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160824/799f56c72a79d6bd6faf0db1f9ad14ef.jpg

[clenz]

For that to happen you would need SDSU, NDSU, USD and WIU to go along with the UND plan. Won't happen. At SDSU Sell's allegiance, and connection is to the MVC schools. There is nothing in it for SDSU to follow UND down that rabbit hole.

The only way UND gets an MVFC invite is if there is another addition along with UND taking the conference to 12, or someone (two schools) choosing to depart. After hearing what the UND President said this week, I think it is more likely they pursue Summit membership for Olympic and ask to be a FB affiliate member of the BSC. Which is something I think the BSC would be open to.
Agreed.

Summit may happen. I'm not pretending to be an expert on that side of it.

I can't see how the MVFC would happen, should they want to pursue that.

In a perfect world they get NDSU, SDSU, USD and WIU.
They still need a minimum of 3 votes from the other 6 members. I'd assume the votes will go
YSU: NO
ISUB: NO
SIU: NO
ISUr: NO
MSU: 50/50
UNI: 50/50

with UNI and MSU leaning no real quick if it meant splitting the schedule up to force UNI, NDSU, SDSU and ISUr together even more on the schedule while

As mentioned, NDSU has no choice but to vote yes. SDSU, USD and WIU aren't bound to UND the same way. To a lesser extent I guess you could say how tied SDSU and NDSU are we might see a yes from SDSU but that seems slim, especially if a private vote.

[IBleedYellow]

SDSU only has to publicly be with NDSU for certain things... And it's a small list.

I'd hope this is one they aren't.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[F'N Hawks]

We are a messed up bunch, so F'N salty. Or just me.

I think all this has more to do with Kelley being gone and dialogue being opened up again. All the crap from past is over now.

[clenz]

All the crap from past is over now.
Is it though?

Burned bridges aren't rebuilt just because the one that burned them left.

[F'N Hawks]

Pretty sure UNI's President really likes UND as an institution. Not saying he would vote for them but he sure wouldn't disparage them publically or anything.

[clenz]

What president?

When the hell did we hire a president?

Man, the Iowa BOR is getting even shadier recently.

[IBleedYellow]

What president?

When the hell did we hire a president?

Man, the Iowa BOR is getting even shadier recently.
You know, the guy that likes UND and has power and influence at UNI!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[F'N Hawks]

What president?

When the hell did we hire a president?

Man, the Iowa BOR is getting even shadier recently.

Never saw he left. So much for that.

He left UNI for Marietta College? xconfusedx

[clenz]

Never saw he left. So much for that.

He left UNI for Marietta College? xconfusedx

Iowa BOR acting shady. Much like everything they do. They didn't renew his contract. He didn't leave as much as the BOR ****ed him and UNI.

It hasn't gone over well at UNI.

Also care to share any comment he actually made about UND? Can't find anything.

[F'N Hawks]

Iowa BOR acting shady. Much like everything they do. They didn't renew his contract. He didn't leave as much as the BOR ****ed him and UNI.

It hasn't gone over well at UNI.

Also care to share any comment he actually made about UND? Can't find anything.

Besides being born in North Dakota, attending UND, and traveling back this past winter with the BB team to feel out the President job, I have no quotes on record, no. The open records request part of ND did him in. No way he could apply being he was an active President at another college.

Thinking the heat must have been on back then even.

[clenz]

Besides being born in North Dakota, attending UND, and traveling back this past winter with the BB team to feel out the President job, I have no quotes on record, no. The open records request part of ND did him in. No way he could apply being he was an active President at another college.

Thinking the heat must have been on back then even.
It wasn't "heat", just the Iowa BOR being the Iowa BOR.

He was given a 3 year contract when hired but was never given a tenure option - which he has everywhere else he'd been. His contract expired June 1st and was told long before it wouldn't be renewed. Hell, he took his current job in May I believe. His wife is from the area and has a history with the school.

He did good things at UNI. He was pro athletics, pro moving the university forward, and pro fighting for fair funding from the state. Thus the BOR hated him.
From what I heard he wasn't easy to work with on campus at times. He wasn't overly professional at times and was quite stubborn and abbrasive, though it was always clear he wanted the best for the university. It was a catch-22 with him for a lot of the faculty.

The Iowa BOR has been under major fire for the way they handled the U of I president search and hiring last year. Google "U of Iowa president controversy" or anything to that affect and you'll see what I mean

"University of Iowa sanctioned over president hiring"
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/education/2016/06/18/national-professor-group-sanctions-university-iowa/86085620/

The University of Iowa’s new president has no experience, no ideas, and flubbed his own résumé.
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2015/09/university_of_iowa_names_new_president_no_experien ce_no_ideas_flubbed_his.html

Unprepared Professors 'Should Be Shot'
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/12/16/university-iowa-leader-apologizes-saying-teachers-without-lesson-plans-should-be

Faculty group censures Harreld over ethics
http://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/education/university-of-iowa/2015/09/24/faculty-group-censures-harreld-over-ethics/72735828/

All started over how he was hired. He has no academic experience, he had special private meetings with the BOR before the hiring process that other candidates didn't get, he lied on his resume, failed to cite others on papers he was a part of, during last year's UI search, the committee was dismissed immediately after selecting four finalists — weeks before the finalists came to campus and the BOR made all decisions from there, etc...




Then the news of the BOR not offering Ruud a new contract even though enrollment was up, scores were up, average incoming freshman quality was up, retention rate was up, etc... came out. They then hire the same search firm for UNI's new president that they used last year to make the controversial hire at U of I.

The BOR has been blasted by nearly everyone over the search firm, the lack of what the BOR is looking for with the new president, why Ruud wasn't retained, etc... So much so that to the point that the BOR have come out and said this will be the most transparent search ever conducted with more meetings and laying public ground work out. They made the president of the search a UNI professor that published a scathing review of the BOR about two weeks ago.

Ruud was free to apply anywhere he wanted. He knew he wasn't being retained. The BOR knew they weren't going to retain him.

[Hammersmith]

Elements of that sound really similar to the mess NDSU has with our State Board of Higher Education(SBHE). They're playing a similar game with NDSU's president. By almost every objective criteria, the current pres has done a good job. But he doesn't kiss ass very well, so the SBHE has held off renewing his contract. It was supposed to be renewed this summer, but they put off the decision until November. If they don't extend his contract, NDSU will be looking for a new president next year. Former ND gov and recent UND interim pres, Ed Schafer, is almost the certain interim choice for the 2017-18 academic year if that happens.

That's why the flap about the media restrictions became such a big deal. Elements of the SBHE want to use it as justification for effectively firing him.

[Bisonoline]

Im a little confused here. First of all WHY do there fans all of a sudden think the MVFC and the Summitt are good coferences for them. For at least the last 4 years the fans at ss.com have done nothing but bad mouth these two conferences.

Next--what even more confusing is the Bison fans who were pizzing blood at just the thought of playing UND in any sport are having a rational conversation about them joining the MVFC/ Summit? WTF ----what next---cats getting along with dogs????? BLM suporting Trump????
To hell with it . Im going to my bunker and preparing for the apocalypse.

[thebootfitter]

UND NDSU SDSU USD UM MSU
NIU
UNC WIU UNO<- brings back football.
I have to assume you mean UNI, right? University of Northern Iowa? And not NIU? Northern Illinois University?

[clenz]

I have to assume you mean UNI, right? University of Northern Iowa? And not NIU? Northern Illinois University?
NDU fans have issues getting it right.

I mean, I get how it's tough to get UNI right. It's not like it's litterally our logo, and everyone of our uniforms

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/33/786/thumbs/78667682015.gifhttp://content.sportslogos.net/logos/33/786/thumbs/78635572015.gif

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/39dc79e2519e4247b33be10f94c90522/providence-park-portland-or-usa-05th-dec-2015-northern-iowa-panthers-f8pg2d.jpghttp://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/778165c1655b19ad14a36ccf12128185956e4cb5/c=310-0-5162-3648&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2016/03/19/IAGroup/DesMoines/635939454728901410-GettyImages-516440608.jpg
http://sidearm.sites.s3.amazonaws.com/uni.sidearmsports.com/custompages/gallery/VB_vs_IndianaState_10312015/thumbs/_middle_MKX_8646.JPGhttp://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/wcfcourier.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/1e/e1e784e7-1547-5955-b80a-0d2d9b1506a7/54371128e94e1.image.jpg
http://wac.b63f.edgecastcdn.net/80B63F/images/sidearm.sites/uni.sidearmsports.com/images/2013/10/1/YTXUHVMXMUYVIOY.20131001145733.jpg
http://k985.com/files/2015/11/PHOTO_UNI-Wrestling_2015-1128-Credit-UNI-Athletics-Communications.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgfzXmxUYAAm0n-.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgfzXmxUYAAm0n-.jpghttp://www.collegetennisonline.com/Uploads/535/Images/9_ctofeatured.jpghttp://www.northerniowan.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MKX_1739-2-900x600.jpg




It's also not like UNI hasn't played at North Dakota in anything recently....oh...wait...
http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/sites/default/files/styles/16x9_620/public/field/image/0121%20UND%20men's%20bball.jpg?itok=IZATw8Oh

Though given the final score of that game I understand why NDU fans don't want to remember it. It was 91-57...54-20 at half time. UNI not only coasted the second half of that game, they shut the car off and let it do it's own thing.


So, I mean.....really....I get it. I do. Tough to remember UNI is UNI. It's not like we aren't talked about frequently.

[Gil Dobie]

Now I know why all the UND faithful said NDSU was going to fail and lose money by moving to Division 1. They were going by the UND athletic model, which now, has been proven to lose money, and not the NDSU athletic model, which has proven to be stable. If you are going to follow the leader, make sure you follow the leaders model.

[IBleedYellow]

Now I know why all the UND faithful said NDSU was going to fail and lose money by moving to Division 1. They were going by the UND athletic model, which now, has been proven to lose money, and not the NDSU athletic model, which has proven to be stable. If you are going to follow the leader, make sure you follow the leaders model.

But then they wouldn't be the special snowflake that they believe themselves to be!

Rather "lead" themselves to destruction than follow NDSU into greatness. xrolleyesx

[IndyTreeFan]

There is zero secrets the MVFC wants YSU to pass on. None. No one has ever hidden that. YSU fans hate me because I constantly remind them how little I want them in the conference. They were added in 1997, a year after EIU left. In 1996 the MVFC had 6 teams. That's a damn dangerous spot for a football conference to be in. YSU was added as a safety blanket.

WKU joined in 01 and left in 06. That meant the Gateway was down to 7 and the start of positioning for shifting was happening so re-solidifying the conference was a priority so the

XDSUs were added for 08 giving the conference a solid 9 members and true round robin champion

USD joining in 2012 ended the true round robin and really increased the "YSU can leave any time now" thinking from MVFC fans/admins

The goal for the MVFC is a true round robin. Losing one to be immediately replaced does nothing to get there.

The best thing for the MVFC is YSU leaving.....period...end of sentence...nothing else added.

Not sure I totally agree with that. Until and unless Indiana State gets their collective head out of their ass, the best thing might be for INSU to drop football altogether instead of being consistently "who gives a crap?" every year. Then, you keep YSU (who just might give a crap about their football program) and get to a round robin, and jettison a program that generally does nothing more than provide a guaranteed win to most other MVFC teams...just a thought...

EDIT: Sorry, I guess I joined this discussion a bit late. My point stands, but you all have discussed my alma mater's pathetic athletic program...

[centennial]

Not sure I totally agree with that. Until and unless Indiana State gets their collective head out of their ass, the best thing might be for INSU to drop football altogether instead of being consistently "who gives a crap?" every year. Then, you keep YSU (who just might give a crap about their football program) and get to a round robin, and jettison a program that generally does nothing more than provide a guaranteed win to most other MVFC teams...just a thought...

EDIT: Sorry, I guess I joined this discussion a bit late. My point stands, but you all have discussed my alma mater's pathetic athletic program...
Missouri State is embarrassment now. Indiana State is off the hook.

[Thumper 76]

Not sure I totally agree with that. Until and unless Indiana State gets their collective head out of their ass, the best thing might be for INSU to drop football altogether instead of being consistently "who gives a crap?" every year. Then, you keep YSU (who just might give a crap about their football program) and get to a round robin, and jettison a program that generally does nothing more than provide a guaranteed win to most other MVFC teams...just a thought...

EDIT: Sorry, I guess I joined this discussion a bit late. My point stands, but you all have discussed my alma mater's pathetic athletic program...

Honestly if the Trees were in the OVC they could have had a shot at the playoffs.

[IndyTreeFan]

Honestly if the Trees were in the OVC they could have had a shot at the playoffs.

For a year, maybe two. Then, we would simply devolve to the level of the middle of the conference, and then we'd bitch about other schools having all the advantages over us and how we need to get EIU out so we could maybe win...I've seen enough over the years to know exactly what would happen...

Personally, I like being in the SEC...I just wish we'd commit to it...xcoffeex

[Twentysix]

Honestly if the Trees were in the OVC they could have had a shot at the playoffs.

Swap ISUb and YSU for EIU and UND? xrolleyesx

[Bisonoline]

So whats it cost to run womens hockey? A million or two?

If you cant take 2 million and spread it around and be title 9 compliant then youve got another set of problems.

[IBleedYellow]

So whats it cost to run womens hockey? A million or two?

If you cant take 2 million and spread it around and be title 9 compliant then youve got another set of problems.
It's all about the percentiles.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[UNDColorado]

Womens hockey needs to be cut like yesterday. I found out they only generated $40K in revenue and had a budget of over $1.5M. Not good, needs to go.

I love hockey but I just cant watch womens hockey. Really is a terrible product.

[F'N Hawks]

Womens hockey needs to be cut like yesterday. I found out they only generated $40K in revenue and had a budget of over $1.5M. Not good, needs to go.

I love hockey but I just cant watch womens hockey. Really is a terrible product.

Sources tell me they aren't even taking tickets this year. xconfusedx

[IBleedYellow]

Sources tell me they aren't even taking tickets this year. xconfusedx

Yeah, you just show up and walk in and enjoy it.

How are prices for food in the Ralph?

[POD Knows]

Yeah, you just show up and walk in and enjoy it.

How are prices for food in the Ralph?

For women's hockey, they throw one pack of bratwurst in a pot of boiling water and put a 12 pack of Bud on ice in order to handle the food and beverage demand for the games.

[TheKingpin28]

For women's hockey, they throw one pack of bratwurst in a pot of boiling water and put a 12 pack of Bud on ice in order to handle the food and beverage demand for the games.
http://i.imgur.com/84KKYto.gif

[BISON Thunder]

Womens hockey needs to be cut like yesterday. I found out they only generated $40K in revenue and had a budget of over $1.5M. Not good, needs to go.

I love hockey but I just cant watch womens hockey. Really is a terrible product.
Any idea how much of the $1.5M are fixed costs (if any), which if womens hockey was cut would need to be absorbed some place else...most likely, mens hockey?

[UNDColorado]

Any idea how much of the $1.5M are fixed costs (if any), which if womens hockey was cut would need to be absorbed some place else...most likely, mens hockey?

Maybe Facility?

I do know that when they bring in a European player it cost roughly double in scholarship costs so I imagine that has an impact. Equipment is not cheap...sticks are $140 a pop these days.

[Yote 53]

Maybe Facility?

I do know that when they bring in a European player it cost roughly double in scholarship costs so I imagine that has an impact. Equipment is not cheap...sticks are $140 a pop these days.


$140? Try again. Top end sticks are $270 - $300. $140 price point for an Intermediate or Senior Flex stick is about 3rd or 4th down the line from the top end stick or is a model from previous years. Kids playing in the youth ranks get by with the lower end sticks but at the college level they are using top of the line stuff.

It is possible a team could get reduced cost by buying in bulk from the manufacturer or signing a deal with one company. I know our high school team has a deal with CCM and has access to pro stock versions and other near high end sticks and equipment at prices that are lower than retail.

[geaux_sioux]

Any idea how much of the $1.5M are fixed costs (if any), which if womens hockey was cut would need to be absorbed some place else...most likely, mens hockey?
Men's hockey would not absorb those dollars. Most likely womens basketball and volleyball. Maybe even footballxnodx

[Mayville Bison]

Men's hockey would not absorb those dollars. Most likely womens basketball and volleyball. Maybe even footballxnodx

He is talking about sunk costs which will be spent no matter if the women's program goes or stays

[nodak651]

And here is the actual data... https://und.edu/president/_files/docs/ncaa-report-2015.pdf

You're welcome.