Column: The Real Problem With The Playoffs

[DFW HOYA]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/the-real-problem-with-the-fcs-playoffs/

Three rotating sites for the finals? Don't forget the West, where I-AA football could use a boost in visibility (and participation). Add Providence Park (formerly Jeld-Wen Field, PGE Park, and Civic Stadium) to the mix--it seats 22,000, and Portland is a great destination city.

http://chatterbox.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c86d053ef015390c00e79970b-800wi

[IBleedYellow]

So move the semifinals to a neutral site?

Do you want to kill the little money that's currently brought in? Because that's how you kill the money that's currently brought in.

Consider this, if either NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, EWU, JMU, JSU or anyone that can get 17k+ fans to a semi game are in that game - the NCAA will lose money by moving the semifinals away.

I know that NDSU and Montana would travel, but IMO that's about it. Especially for just the semis.

Lose/Lose situation, IMO. Really don't like it at all.

[JSUSoutherner]

So move the semifinals to a neutral site?

Do you want to kill the little money that's currently brought in? Because that's how you kill the money that's currently brought in.

Consider this, if either NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, EWU, JMU, JSU or anyone that can get 17k+ fans to a semi game are in that game - the NCAA will lose money by moving the semifinals away.

I know that NDSU and Montana would travel, but IMO that's about it. Especially for just the semis.

Lose/Lose situation, IMO. Really don't like it at all.

This.

JSU and NDSU were gold mines in the playoffs for the NCAA. They would be silly to move them.

[IBleedYellow]

For anyone that doesn't know:

The host schools put in a bid, and there is a minimum bid that is required to host.

Either the NCAA will get that bid if the gate is less than said bid, or 80% of ticket sales if it's above the bid.

Moving it to the semifinals removes that guaranteed money from host schools. Bad. Move.

If JSU sells out their 24k stadium...that's $960,000 in the NCAA coffers (which they use to fund those charter flights, btw!)

NDSU sells out it's another 760k....so yeah.

[Bison05]

For anyone that doesn't know:

The host schools put in a bid, and there is a minimum bid that is required to host.

Either the NCAA will get that bid if the gate is less than said bid, or 80% of ticket sales if it's above the bid.

Moving it to the semifinals removes that guaranteed money from host schools. Bad. Move.

If JSU sells out their 24k stadium...that's $960,000 in the NCAA coffers (which they use to fund those charter flights, btw!)

NDSU sells out it's another 760k....so yeah.

Also you're potentially paying for 2 charter flights instead of one.

[IBleedYellow]

Also you're potentially paying for 2 charter flights instead of one.

What's the average cost of a charter flight?

I believe I get what you're saying thought - the NCAA will be paying for 2 charter flights (4 total) per semifinal game...instead of 2 right now.

[DFW HOYA]

It is not in the NCAA's best interest for the same five or six schools to host the semifinals every year. That's what stalled the growth of men's lacrosse, where only 14 schools in the last 45 years have ever made it to the finals. If you're not in that club, chances are good you'll never host a game to even get there.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

And if they were to consider that...theres no way in hell that **** ass atmosphere stadium in Portland should have it.

[Thumper 76]

I have no idea how this guy thinks two permanent semi final locations save or generate more money. It's even funnier that he only picks eastern towns to do it.

[DFW HOYA]

And if they were to consider that...theres no way in hell that **** ass atmosphere stadium in Portland should have it.

Missoula is not hosting a game in late December.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/the-real-problem-with-the-fcs-playoffs/

Three rotating sites for the finals? Don't forget the West, where I-AA football could use a boost in visibility (and participation). Add Providence Park (formerly Jeld-Wen Field, PGE Park, and Civic Stadium) to the mix--it seats 22,000, and Portland is a great destination city.

http://chatterbox.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c86d053ef015390c00e79970b-800wi

This is stupid.

[IBleedYellow]

It is not in the NCAA's best interest for the same five or six schools to host the semifinals every year. That's what stalled the growth of men's lacrosse, where only 14 schools in the last 45 years have ever made it to the finals. If you're not in that club, chances are good you'll never host a game to even get there.

Correct, it's not. But the NCAA can't stop a team from winning. Even when they try and stack the deck against teams.

[DFW HOYA]

This is stupid.

By that measure, so is Frisco, given that the closest team in the subdivision is 200 miles away.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/the-real-problem-with-the-fcs-playoffs/

Three rotating sites for the finals? Don't forget the West, where I-AA football could use a boost in visibility (and participation). Add Providence Park (formerly Jeld-Wen Field, PGE Park, and Civic Stadium) to the mix--it seats 22,000, and Portland is a great destination city.

http://chatterbox.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c86d053ef015390c00e79970b-800wi

"For the MEAC and SWAC, the answer is clearly related to money." And an inability to actually win in the playoffs.....

[Thumper 76]

By that measure, so is Frisco, given that the closest team in the subdivision is 200 miles away.

Right, so it should be in the east cause otherwise the fans won't travel?

[ccd494]

Don't forget that the owner of the Portland Timbers would like nothing more than to boot PSU out of that stadium already. I can't see them agreeing to another football game on that field.

[IBleedYellow]

By that measure, so is Frisco, given that the closest team in the subdivision is 200 miles away.

Frisco is perfect.

The location means it will have great weather 90% of the time. It is January, you know.

Also, DFW Airport makes it real easy to fly in, and the many highway and interstate routes makes it also great central location for driving.

[JSUSoutherner]

Frisco is perfect.

The location means it will have great weather 90% of the time. It is January, you know.

Also, DFW Airport makes it real easy to fly in, and the many highway and interstate routes makes it also great central location for driving.
Last year must have been one of those 10% years.

[Bisonoline]

So what about the fans? You expect them to travel across the country and lay out Big $$$$$$$$$ twice in a short period of time? They are going to have to chose which will stifle attendance to both games.

The NCAA needs to seed the teams correctly. That should be the first order of business.
If we have to travel to the east coast because thats the way the seedings come out Im good with it as the high seed deserves it.
I dont see how this theoretical plan will help anything. Except for the hosting cities hotel and beverage industry.

[Bisonoline]

Last year must have been one of those 10% years.

No its been freaking cold every year weve been there. BUUUUURRRRRRRR

[McNeese72]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/the-real-problem-with-the-fcs-playoffs/

Three rotating sites for the finals? Don't forget the West, where I-AA football could use a boost in visibility (and participation). Add Providence Park (formerly Jeld-Wen Field, PGE Park, and Civic Stadium) to the mix--it seats 22,000, and Portland is a great destination city.

http://chatterbox.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c86d053ef015390c00e79970b-800wi

I went to the McNeese-Portland St game there in 2004 and I did not like the setup they had there for football. It might be a good baseball stadium, but like many baseball stadiums when used for football, it puts you too far away from the field. I like being right on top of the field. I'm not crazy about stadiums that have tracks, either.

Just my opinion.

Doc

[Bisonoline]

I went to the McNeese-Portland St game there in 2004 and I did not like the setup they had there for football. It might be a good baseball stadium, but like many baseball stadiums when used for football, it puts you too far away from the field. I like being right on top of the field. I'm not crazy about stadiums that have tracks, either.

Just my opinion.


Doc


Im with you on this as well. Football in a baseball stadium sucks.

[IBleedYellow]

Last year must have been one of those 10% years.

You guys were in the wind the entire game. Must have been cold as **** for y'all. I on the otherhand was very content, even hot where I was.


No its been freaking cold every year weve been there. BUUUUURRRRRRRR

Every year? I disagree. Last year was the only one that wasn't exactly stellar, and I still was fine.

[JSUSoutherner]

You guys were in the wind the entire game. Must have been cold as **** for y'all. I on the otherhand was very content, even hot where I was.



Every year? I disagree. Last year was the only one that wasn't exactly stellar, and I still was fine.

It was awful. The weather forecast lied to me and I thought it would be warmer than it was. All I had under my uniform was basketball shorts and a t-shirt and marching uniforms do NOTHING to keep you warm or stop the wind. It was miserable but it wouldn't have been bad if I had worn sweatpants and a long sleeve instead so it was kind of my own fault. We got into the stadium about an hour and a half before kickoff and spent most of the time in the bathrooms out of the wind.

[Bisonoline]

You guys were in the wind the entire game. Must have been cold as **** for y'all. I on the otherhand was very content, even hot where I was.



Every year? I disagree. Last year was the only one that wasn't exactly stellar, and I still was fine.

But you drink a lot! :D

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

By that measure, so is Frisco, given that the closest team in the subdivision is 200 miles away.
Win if you want to host a playoff semi. Frisco is the best place for the championship game.

[JSUSoutherner]

Win if you want to host a playoff semi. Frisco is the best place for the championship game.
Didn't they get an extension this year?

[ST_Lawson]

Don't forget that the owner of the Portland Timbers would like nothing more than to boot PSU out of that stadium already. I can't see them agreeing to another football game on that field.

Obviously the whole idea is dumb, but if they're going to go out West with a semifinal or something, why go as far north as Portland (average high of ~46 and low of ~37 that time of year) in a city where there's only one FCS team anywhere nearby. What about Sacramento (average high of ~53 and low of ~40) with two FCS teams fairly close (Cal State-Sacramento and UC Davis). Could be held at Hornet Stadium (Cal State-Sacramento's field) which has FieldTurf and holds just over 21k people. Sacramento is right on I-80 and I-5, so it's fairly easy to drive to from many of the Big Sky schools (if you could consider any route "easy" out west) and their airport has nonstop flights from Denver, Minneapolis, Chicago, DFW, Atlanta, major cities on the East Coast, etc...so it wouldn't be too hard to fly if that's your deal (one layover tops for the vast majority of people).

I don't know that interest in FCS football (or football in general) is high out in that part of California, but I know that in general, California is known for having quite the setup of decent JUCO football as well as having a very deep base of quality HS football. Oregon, and Portland specifically, is not known as being a football "hotspot".

But again...dumb idea is still dumb, regardless of where it's held.

[IBleedYellow]

But you drink a lot! :D

I was 100% sober in Frisco this year. I was sick and I was not going to touch alcohol at all.


Didn't they get an extension this year?

Yep. Through 2020 now.

[grizband]

Missoula is not hosting a game in late December.
Missoula has hosted plenty of games in December...

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[dgtw]

Last year must have been one of those 10% years.

Joe Montana would say we had it easy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mayville Bison]

I have no idea how this guy thinks two permanent semi final locations save or generate more money. It's even funnier that he only picks eastern towns to do it.

The eastern towns was what caught my attention as well. Why would you not take advantage of San Diego?

I'm guessing they would make quite a bit of money from the host city bidding for it to make up for expenses. If not, why would they have a neutral site for the championship game instead of the same bidding process that goes throughout the playoffs?

[RichH2]

Does seem supporters of status quo have debunked any rationale for neutral sites. Argument seems to basically be Its good for us so why change it. Perhaps they are correct. But, ZDFW has a valid argument about limiting sites to schools that will sell out for a home game.
I dont have a glib solution to open up the selection process. Do think effort should be made to find one.

[Bisonoline]

I was 100% sober in Frisco this year. I was sick and I was not going to touch alcohol at all.



Yep. Through 2020 now.

So you were running a fever. No wonder you were hot.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Missoula is not hosting a game in late December.

Totally agree...I'm assuming you have never been to a game in Portland's venue tho???

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I work in Frisco...and I happen to be very involved with the upgrades and projects surrounding the Toyota Stadium upgrade....

With Frisco's city leadership...EDC....and development of new facilities I would be very surprised if Frisco doesnt host this championship for a decade or longer.....

The central location and amenities of the DFW metro..two large airports....good weather....and the fact that the city of Frisco really adores the FCS chipper tell me its not leaving folks!

[geaux_sioux]

Just think, NDSU could play a semi at the Vikings new stadium and pack the dome with 70,000 bison fans including lakes himself.

[AmsterBison]

"Now imagine three sites: Frisco, TX; Chattanooga, TN; and, say, Charleston, SC, alternating every three years hosting the semifinals and finals."

This is to solve the problem that "The issues with the FCS playoffs are really the gap between the idealized, fan-perspective playoffs and the real, FCS committee-administered playoffs."

I'm not sure what fans he has been studying, but I've never heard that fans were clamoring, "Hey, Southern teams need to have the final two rounds in their backyards because the HBCUs and the Ivy League schools are opting out of the playoffs." Not seeing what problems it solves other than ticket shortages.

I thought fans wanted more teams seeded - not some abortion of a system that gives unearned home fields to one region of the country. Heck, based on his stated problem, I guess he wants the HBCU and Ivy champ to get byes into the semi-finals?

My counter-proposal - three sites: KC, Minneapolis, and Chicago.
My counter-counter-proposal: Shut up or nut up, buttercup.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Totally agree...I'm assuming you have never been to a game in Portland's venue tho???

I have. It was very terrible as McNeese72 said before the renovation due to distance from the field of play. It looks like they have fixed that a little bit but it still looks pretty lackluster on the "visitor" side which is the uncovered side.

They sell beer in there though. I will always applaud that. xlolx

[Bisonoline]

"Now imagine three sites: Frisco, TX; Chattanooga, TN; and, say, Charleston, SC, alternating every three years hosting the semifinals and finals."

This is to solve the problem that "The issues with the FCS playoffs are really the gap between the idealized, fan-perspective playoffs and the real, FCS committee-administered playoffs."

I'm not sure what fans he has been studying, but I've never heard that fans were clamoring, "Hey, Southern teams need to have the final two rounds in their backyards because the HBCUs and the Ivy League schools are opting out of the playoffs." Not seeing what problems it solves other than ticket shortages.

I thought fans wanted more teams seeded - not some abortion of a system that gives unearned home fields to one region of the country. Heck, based on his stated problem, I guess he wants the HBCU and Ivy champ to get byes into the semi-finals?

My counter-proposal - three sites: KC, Minneapolis, and Chicago.
My counter-counter-proposal: Shut up or nut up, buttercup.

Winner!

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

At a breakfast event last week, Rocco made mention of there being some interest in taking the semifinals to a neutral site too. I found this pretty surprising and mostly unfeasible for reasons mentioned above.

That said, what if these cities really want to throw money at it? And the semifinals would be a 1 day (single session) double header , thus reducing the need for single schools to sell as many tickets.

Imagine, for instance, 17 time defending Champion NDSU is playing a semifinal and you have 3 fan bases in the joint cheering for an upset. Sort of intriguing.

[Bisonoline]

The eastern towns was what caught my attention as well. Why would you not take advantage of San Diego?

I'm guessing they would make quite a bit of money from the host city bidding for it to make up for expenses. If not, why would they have a neutral site for the championship game instead of the same bidding process that goes throughout the playoffs?

Nothing screams FCS football like San Diego CA. :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

At a breakfast event last week, Rocco made mention of there being some interest in taking the semifinals to a neutral site too. I found this pretty surprising and mostly unfeasible for reasons mentioned above.

That said, what if these cities really want to throw money at it? And the semifinals would be a 1 day (single session) double header , thus reducing the need for single schools to sell as many tickets.

Imagine, for instance, 17 time defending Champion NDSU is playing a semifinal and you have 3 fan bases in the joint cheering for an upset. Sort of intriguing.

If it were that way, with good money being put up, sure. It won't be that way.

[Thumper 76]

At a breakfast event last week, Rocco made mention of there being some interest in taking the semifinals to a neutral site too. I found this pretty surprising and mostly unfeasible for reasons mentioned above.

That said, what if these cities really want to throw money at it? And the semifinals would be a 1 day (single session) double header , thus reducing the need for single schools to sell as many tickets.

Imagine, for instance, 17 time defending Champion NDSU is playing a semifinal and you have 3 fan bases in the joint cheering for an upset. Sort of intriguing.

That would be interesting, almost like a final four set up. Could possibly be able to sell more tickets to people who would go just for the event. I would go to that whether my team made it or not. Where do you put it though. I mean if a number one has to travel across the country across a couple time zones it kinda sucks for them.

[dewey]

No its been freaking cold every year weve been there. BUUUUURRRRRRRR


It was really nice in January 2014. Heck IIRC my wifey got a little sunburned. Last year was a little chilly but still not that bad.

Dewey

[Bisonoline]

That would be interesting, almost like a final four set up. Could possibly be able to sell more tickets to people who would go just for the event. I would go to that whether my team made it or not. Where do you put it though. I mean if a number one has to travel across the country across a couple time zones it kinda sucks for them.

Kind of takes away from being the #1 seed doesnt it.

I think the NCAA needs to focus on seeding and running a tournament the way its supposed to be run.

[Bisonoline]

It was really nice in January 2014. Heck IIRC my wifey got a little sunburned. Last year was a little chilly but still not that bad.

Dewey

Sure that wasnt wind burn? For some reason tailgate always seems ok. But by the time we get to the second half Im freezing. Plus I wear warm clothes.

[Thumper 76]

Kind of takes away from being the #1 seed doesnt it.

I think the NCAA needs to focus on seeding and running a tournament the way its supposed to be run.

Sure does, but if they decide that way then I'd rather they did it that way. Besides if it was neutral field the #1 seed should win anyways right?

[RichH2]

Seeding should only determine who you play not where you play. Tough on any team to have a long trip, not just #1 seeds.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

At a breakfast event last week, Rocco made mention of there being some interest in taking the semifinals to a neutral site too. I found this pretty surprising and mostly unfeasible for reasons mentioned above.

That said, what if these cities really want to throw money at it? And the semifinals would be a 1 day (single session) double header , thus reducing the need for single schools to sell as many tickets.

Imagine, for instance, 17 time defending Champion NDSU is playing a semifinal and you have 3 fan bases in the joint cheering for an upset. Sort of intriguing.
This is stupid. It takes a game away from the fanbase. If a team worked to get home field, they should get home field.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

This is stupid. It takes a game away from the fanbase. If a team worked to get home field, they should get home field.

To be clear, I didn't say I supported the idea or not, so calling is "stupid" is pretty juvenile.

How many Bison fans would get hotel rooms in Frisco for 10 days? That's basically what this boils down to, right?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

To be clear, I didn't say I supported the idea or not, so calling is "stupid" is pretty juvenile.

How many Bison fans would get hotel rooms in Frisco for 10 days? That's basically what this boils down to, right?

I think a 10 day stretch is a pretty big ask. Not saying a lot wouldn't but come on. How many people have jobs that you take all your vacation up for the trip and it's done and ok'd on week's notice.

BTW, I guess we're talking about having the NC game rolled right back to the next weekend then? Seems a bit problematic as well.

[dgtw]

Seeding should only determine who you play not where you play. Tough on any team to have a long trip, not just #1 seeds.

So don't get seeded below #2 and the players can walk to the game the day after their mom tucks them in at night.

Problem solved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BisonTru]

Seeding should only determine who you play not where you play. Tough on any team to have a long trip, not just #1 seeds.

What?! You want to give the lower or unseeded team home field?

[POD Knows]

What?! You want to give the lower or unseeded team home field?

Yes, he does.

[Thumper 76]

What?! You want to give the lower or unseeded team home field?

Happens with bidding every year outside the top 8.......

[Sader87]

The FCS playoffs are just an unwieldy process imo and will continue to be so given the size of the field, the location (or lack thereof) of FCS schools in certain parts of the country and, in general, a lot of apathy towards the whole process outside of a few pockets of the country overall.

Hit me with the "sour grapes" label if you want but I just don't see the FCS playoffs getting any bigger (or getting anymore attention) than they already do right now.

[Hammerhead]

I lived in the Portland area for 19 years and it is a nice city, but the weather is much nicer from May - October. A typical day in December or early January is low in the mid 30s and high in the mid 40s with light rain.



http://www.college-sports-journal.com/the-real-problem-with-the-fcs-playoffs/

Three rotating sites for the finals? Don't forget the West, where I-AA football could use a boost in visibility (and participation). Add Providence Park (formerly Jeld-Wen Field, PGE Park, and Civic Stadium) to the mix--it seats 22,000, and Portland is a great destination city.

http://chatterbox.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c86d053ef015390c00e79970b-800wi

[BadlandsGrizFan]

To be clear, I didn't say I supported the idea or not, so calling is "stupid" is pretty juvenile.

How many Bison fans would get hotel rooms in Frisco for 10 days? That's basically what this boils down to, right?


They spend 10 days worth of hotel fare in one night on beer at the Wild Pitch

[ST_Lawson]

I lived in the Portland area for 19 years and it is a nice city, but the weather is much nicer from May - October. A typical day in December or early January is low in the mid 30s and high in the mid 40s with light rain.

Oh absolutely. Portland is a beautiful city. Go see it in June or July, do a drive along the coast, go see some waterfalls east of the city...don't go watch football there in December.

[TheKingpin28]

They spend 10 days worth of hotel fare in one night on beer at the Wild Pitch

This right here. We will drink you dry and then complain that we are not that drunk. And that is just on the 1st night. We do this for 2-4 days straight.

*insert Beer fest clip about not being that drunk*

[TheKingpin28]

I was down there the first year against Sammy. Sat in the section across from the Bison contingent in a small block of Bison fans on the Sammy side. Sat next to the nicest couple of Bearkat fans and had a blast. But I remember when hearing about how we drank the city dry not 1x but 2x. Every since then, it had been smooth sailing.

So when Frisco realizes what's at stake year in and year out, they will be rooting for specifically NDSU and hope to have an opponent that brings fans like UM, UNI, SDSU, etc... due to the fact that some of those places make their overhead during that week and the rest of the quarter and possibly year, is profit. The NCAA would be a fool to consider moving it considering how the town and community has embraced this event. Then again, having it at the Thunderdome and not Fargo South one year, would not be a bad idea. 😁

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

I was down there the first year against Sammy. Sat in the section across from the Bison contingent in a small block of Bison fans on the Sammy side. Sat next to the nicest couple of Bearkat fans and had a blast. But I remember when hearing about how we drank the city dry not 1x but 2x. Every since then, it had been smooth sailing.

So when Frisco realizes what's at stake year in and year out, they will be rooting for specifically NDSU and hope to have an opponent that brings fans like UM, UNI, SDSU, etc... due to the fact that some of those places make their overhead during that week and the rest of the quarter and possibly year, is profit. The NCAA would be a fool to consider moving it considering how the town and community has embraced this event. Then again, having it at the Thunderdome and not Fargo South one year, would not be a bad idea. 😁

There will be 4000 less seats this year at Frisco, because of the construction. A lot less beer will be drank.

[Thumper 76]

There will be 4000 less seats this year at Frisco, because of the construction. A lot less beer will be drank.

Honest guess that each Bison fan is worth 1.5 gallons of beer on the conservative side, that's 6000 gallons less beer sold.

[TheKingpin28]

There will be 4000 less seats this year at Frisco, because of the construction. A lot less beer will be drank.

More people to tailgate then? xdrunkyx

But in all seriousness, the upgrades will be nice but now that there will be less seating, does kind of suck. But the premium seating will increase as well as SRO in the deck/patio bar IIRC.

[IBleedYellow]

There will be 4000 less seats this year at Frisco, because of the construction. A lot less beer will be drank.

I know more than 30 people personally that drove down to Frisco without a ticket into the game.

[BadlandsGrizFan]

Thats actually only about 2,000 seats if were talking typical Bison fans. I am actually directly involved with the project and I can see the stadium from my office. The possibility exists that those seats may be there for the game.

[BisonTru]

Thats actually only about 2,000 seats if were talking typical Bison fans. I am actually directly involved with the project and I can see the stadium from my office. The possibility exists that those seats may be there for the game.

That's good news. If you learn anything more about the extra seats you should keep us informed. Which ever two fan bases makes it that would be useful info.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

That's good news. If you learn anything more about the extra seats you should keep us informed. Which ever two fan bases makes it that would be useful info.

Agreed. Helpful info.

[Bisonoline]

I was down there the first year against Sammy. Sat in the section across from the Bison contingent in a small block of Bison fans on the Sammy side. Sat next to the nicest couple of Bearkat fans and had a blast. But I remember when hearing about how we drank the city dry not 1x but 2x. Every since then, it had been smooth sailing.

So when Frisco realizes what's at stake year in and year out, they will be rooting for specifically NDSU and hope to have an opponent that brings fans like UM, UNI, SDSU, etc... due to the fact that some of those places make their overhead during that week and the rest of the quarter and possibly year, is profit. The NCAA would be a fool to consider moving it considering how the town and community has embraced this event. Then again, having it at the Thunderdome and not Fargo South one year, would not be a bad idea. 

My wife and are retired so we have the luxury of going down 3 days early and enjoy what the area has to offer with out the huge crush of Bison fans.
Without fail in every restaurant we go to the staff see our Bison gear and make a b-line to us. Ive had managers sit down and converse for long periods of time. Not the usual fake stuff with $$$$ in there eyes. They are very engaging. Granted the excitement has an economic factor but they really like to see us down there because we are a very fun group and nice people to boot.

[TheValleyRaider]

On point #1, I just don't lose that much sleep over the Ivy/MEAC/SWAC not participating. I do think it would be more ideal if they all did, but I can't say the title is diminished by them not going to the playoffs. If they don't want to play those games, I just don't see why that should bother others.

I also don't see how neutral site semifinals actually encourages them to join. It doesn't resolve the Bayou Classic/SWAC title game scheduling issue, and I can't believe any of those conferences is going to be swayed by a potential trip to Charleston or Portland (or wherever) if they win 2/3 games before that. From the perspective of a SWAC school, is saving money on a semifinal game really better than however much they earn from the SWAC title game and Celebration Bowl (and BC for Grambling/Southern)?

[Go Green]

It is not in the NCAA's best interest for the same five or six schools to host the semifinals every year. That's what stalled the growth of men's lacrosse, where only 14 schools in the last 45 years have ever made it to the finals. If you're not in that club, chances are good you'll never host a game to even get there.

When it comes down to competitiveness v. revenue, the latter usually wins. Just ask women's basketball.

http://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9800395/women-college-basketball-ncaa-regionals-remain-neutral-sites

[ASU33]

On point #1, I just don't lose that much sleep over the Ivy/MEAC/SWAC not participating. I do think it would be more ideal if they all did, but I can't say the title is diminished by them not going to the playoffs. If they don't want to play those games, I just don't see why that should bother others.

I also don't see how neutral site semifinals actually encourages them to join. It doesn't resolve the Bayou Classic/SWAC title game scheduling issue, and I can't believe any of those conferences is going to be swayed by a potential trip to Charleston or Portland (or wherever) if they win 2/3 games before that. From the perspective of a SWAC school, is saving money on a semifinal game really better than however much they earn from the SWAC title game and Celebration Bowl (and BC for Grambling/Southern)?


No

[ASU33]

The FCS playoffs are just fine, my only gripe is more television time for the early rounds outside of ESPN 3.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

On point #1, I just don't lose that much sleep over the Ivy/MEAC/SWAC not participating. I do think it would be more ideal if they all did, but I can't say the title is diminished by them not going to the playoffs. If they don't want to play those games, I just don't see why that should bother others.

I also don't see how neutral site semifinals actually encourages them to join. It doesn't resolve the Bayou Classic/SWAC title game scheduling issue, and I can't believe any of those conferences is going to be swayed by a potential trip to Charleston or Portland (or wherever) if they win 2/3 games before that. From the perspective of a SWAC school, is saving money on a semifinal game really better than however much they earn from the SWAC title game and Celebration Bowl (and BC for Grambling/Southern)?

The only problem I have with them not participating is that they are in the league at all. If you don't participate in the big dance you lose the right to get your team ranked, argue about your teams merits and generally speaking claim membership to the FCS. Whats the point of playing?? Get your conference trophy and wonder how good you really are? Bushleague

[IBleedYellow]

I'd just like to reiterate that this idea is really stupid and we all lost intelligence for reading it.


I award the author no points and tell him he should probably reevaluate his purpose in life.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[GAD]

The FCS playoffs are just fine, my only gripe is more television time for the early rounds outside of ESPN 3.
That will not happen, the first round is on rivalry weekend. Those are some of the most anticipated games of the the year.
Second round is on championship weekend

[GAD]

The only problem I have with them not participating is that they are in the league at all. If you don't participate in the big dance you lose the right to get your team ranked, argue about your teams merits and generally speaking claim membership to the FCS. Whats the point of playing?? Get your conference trophy and wonder how good you really are? Bushleague
Typical!

[Thumper 76]

Typical!

How is he wrong though?

[TheValleyRaider]

The only problem I have with them not participating is that they are in the league at all. If you don't participate in the big dance you lose the right to get your team ranked, argue about your teams merits and generally speaking claim membership to the FCS. Whats the point of playing?? Get your conference trophy and wonder how good you really are? Bushleague

And it baffles me that this bothers people. These schools claim membership in the FCS because they are, in fact, members of the FCS. The designation has nothing to do with participating in the playoff.

They choose not to participate in the playoff. So what? The playoffs are not somehow less relevant because Harvard doesn't show up. NDSU's titles wouldn't suddenly mean more if someone beat Bethune-Cookman instead of Western Illinois in the 1st round. Very few people take any of them seriously as national title contenders anyway, and what else is the worst that happens? Dartmouth and Alcorn State knock two teams who would otherwise be ranked 24 and 25 out of the polls (which are made meaningless by the playoffs already)?

[ASU33]

And it baffles me that this bothers people. These schools claim membership in the FCS because they are, in fact, members of the FCS. The designation has nothing to do with participating in the playoff.

They choose not to participate in the playoff. So what? The playoffs are not somehow less relevant because Harvard doesn't show up. NDSU's titles wouldn't suddenly mean more if someone beat Bethune-Cookman instead of Western Illinois in the 1st round. Very few people take any of them seriously as national title contenders anyway, and what else is the worst that happens? Dartmouth and Alcorn State knock two teams who would otherwise be ranked 24 and 25 out of the polls (which are made meaningless by the playoffs already)?


BINGO!

[Bisonoline]

And it baffles me that this bothers people. These schools claim membership in the FCS because they are, in fact, members of the FCS. The designation has nothing to do with participating in the playoff.

They choose not to participate in the playoff. So what? The playoffs are not somehow less relevant because Harvard doesn't show up. NDSU's titles wouldn't suddenly mean more if someone beat Bethune-Cookman instead of Western Illinois in the 1st round. Very few people take any of them seriously as national title contenders anyway, and what else is the worst that happens? Dartmouth and Alcorn State knock two teams who would otherwise be ranked 24 and 25 out of the polls (which are made meaningless by the playoffs already)?

Nicely said. They dont want to play with the big kids. Pizz on them. Im good with that. They werent relevant any way.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

And it baffles me that this bothers people. These schools claim membership in the FCS because they are, in fact, members of the FCS. The designation has nothing to do with participating in the playoff.

They choose not to participate in the playoff. So what? The playoffs are not somehow less relevant because Harvard doesn't show up. NDSU's titles wouldn't suddenly mean more if someone beat Bethune-Cookman instead of Western Illinois in the 1st round. Very few people take any of them seriously as national title contenders anyway, and what else is the worst that happens? Dartmouth and Alcorn State knock two teams who would otherwise be ranked 24 and 25 out of the polls (which are made meaningless by the playoffs already)?

I'd say the Ivy's aren't all that far off in talent from your oh so tough patriot league. Would the playoffs be better off if you stayed home?? No, Colgate made a great run and set themselves up for higher expectations for their future. The more teams/leagues that participate the better.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

So move the semifinals to a neutral site?

Do you want to kill the little money that's currently brought in? Because that's how you kill the money that's currently brought in.

Consider this, if either NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, EWU, JMU, JSU or anyone that can get 17k+ fans to a semi game are in that game - the NCAA will lose money by moving the semifinals away.

I know that NDSU and Montana would travel, but IMO that's about it. Especially for just the semis.

Lose/Lose situation, IMO. Really don't like it at all.

Montana doesnt travel that well unless its really close. Even our NC games in Tennessee there were only 5k people if that. 2 years ago in Fargo we had what 500-700 maybe? Maybe get 2-3k at Ewu games.

Its a myth

[GAD]

How is he wrong though?
The Bayou Classic was played on Thanksgiving Weekend before the I-AA subdivision was even created. When they chose to start the playoffs on the same weekend SU/GSU were told to move the game to a different weekend well the problem with that is alot of the people who attend the game don't live in this region of the country many are people who come here to spend Thanksgiving with family and go to the game. If we move the date of the game those people won't be here and we could be saying good bye to 30K+ please point out any single FCS game that would willing to tell that many fans good bye

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

And it baffles me that this bothers people. These schools claim membership in the FCS because they are, in fact, members of the FCS. The designation has nothing to do with participating in the playoff.

They choose not to participate in the playoff. So what? The playoffs are not somehow less relevant because Harvard doesn't show up. NDSU's titles wouldn't suddenly mean more if someone beat Bethune-Cookman instead of Western Illinois in the 1st round. Very few people take any of them seriously as national title contenders anyway, and what else is the worst that happens? Dartmouth and Alcorn State knock two teams who would otherwise be ranked 24 and 25 out of the polls (which are made meaningless by the playoffs already)?

If you do not participate in the playoffs you shouldn't be in the FCS. FCS stands for football CHAMPIONSHIP subdivision. There should be a lower conference for those that don't compete in the playoffs. Teams not competing in the playoffs shouldn't be in any polls either.

[GAD]

If you do not participate in the playoffs you shouldn't be in the FCS. FCS stands for football CHAMPIONSHIP subdivision. There should be a lower conference for those that don't compete in the playoffs. Teams not competing in the playoffs shouldn't be in any polls either.
It was I-AA first

[ASU33]

Nicely said. They dont want to play with the big kids. Pizz on them. Im good with that. They werent relevant any way.

We weren't relevant but for some reason you can't stop talking about us.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

The Bayou Classic was played on Thanksgiving Weekend before the I-AA subdivision was even created. When they chose to start the playoffs on the same weekend SU/GSU were told to move the game to a different weekend well the problem with that is alot of the people who attend the game don't live in this region of the country many are people who come here to spend Thanksgiving with family and go to the game. If we move the date of the game those people won't be here and we could be saying good bye to 30K+ please point out any single FCS game that would willing to tell that many fans good bye

According to Wikipedia that is not true. With the subdivision forming in 1978 and expanding playoffs in 1982. You've been playing the series since 1932 but only on the last Saturday in November since 1990. clarification?

[Sader87]

If you do not participate in the playoffs you shouldn't be in the FCS. FCS stands for football CHAMPIONSHIP subdivision. There should be a lower conference for those that don't compete in the playoffs. Teams not competing in the playoffs shouldn't be in any polls either.

College football may not well exist if not for the Ivy League.....pondah that for a moment xdrunkyx

[Grizalltheway]

College football may not well exist if not for the Ivy League.....pondah that for a moment xdrunkyx

Sure, but what have you done for me lately?

[GAD]

According to Wikipedia that is not true. With the subdivision forming in 1978 and expanding playoffs in 1982. You've been playing the series since 1932 but only on the last Saturday in November since 1990. clarification?
The series may have started in 1932 on the two teams campuses, but in 1974 the game was moved to old Tulane stadium in New Orleans and 78K people showed up the following year it was moved to the Superdome but it was always played on Thanksgiving weekend with the exception of a few years when LSU vs Tulane took that weekend stating that it was Tulanes home stadium. SU/GSU had to sue them to get that weekend back but other than that its always been on Thanksgiving weekend since it was moved to New Orleans in 1974

[GAD]

I was wrong on wikipedia it says the 1974 and 1981 games were on the weekend before Thanksgiving but the 75,76, and 77 games were on Thanksgiving weekend

[Sammy94]

Hopefully we see another SHSU/NDSU Frisco meeting this season. The city of Frisco will love that.

[POD Knows]

Hopefully we see another SHSU/NDSU Frisco meeting this season. The city of Frisco will love that.

In theory, it might cost the city $$ to have SHSU there, that might mean fewer Bison fans because of the ticket allocation and some of the Bearcat fans might just show up on Friday or Saturday morning. We would send 15,000 to 20,000 or more and they will all be staying in hotels and the like.

Stayed in a Holiday Inn with a bar in McKinney at the first NDSU/SHSU game and there were a bunch of SHSU people. Awesome people, we drank that little HI bar out of Captain Morgan and Budweiser.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

I was wrong on wikipedia it says the 1974 and 1981 games were on the weekend before Thanksgiving but the 75,76, and 77 games were on Thanksgiving weekend

You must be the only game in the FCS that gets a better crowd on thanksgiving. Which I don't really understand.... Still think it could move and be made to work but oh well

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

In theory, it might cost the city $$ to have SHSU there, that might mean fewer Bison fans because of the ticket allocation and some of the Bearcat fans might just show up on Friday or Saturday morning. We would send 15,000 to 20,000 or more and they will all be staying in hotels and the like.

Stayed in a Holiday Inn with a bar in McKinney at the first NDSU/SHSU game and there were a bunch of SHSU people. Awesome people, we drank that little HI bar out of Captain Morgan and Budweiser.

SHSU fans are really fun. Know some folks who have a bison/SHSU deal where both parties bought 3 year tickets and if the other team goes they sell them the tickets at face. Couple even came to the last several bison championship games for fun to drink and hang out. Good people

[ursus arctos horribilis]

bearkat

[JSUSoutherner]

bearkat
Who cares?

How do we know that SHSU didn't misspell it and that it is actually Bearcat?

Idk, I'm just saying I've never seen a bobkat. :D

[POD Knows]

bearkat

:D I am amazed I got the spelling that close. I think it autocorrected on my phone.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Who cares?

How do we know that SHSU didn't misspell it and that it is actually Bearcat?

Idk, I'm just saying I've never seen a bobkat. :D

Who cares? It's not like you are an actual Gamecock, I an actual Grizzly, or POD an actual Bison.

It's all pretty made up right?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

:D I am amazed I got the spelling that close. I think it autocorrected on my phone.

xlolx
No way of getting around the auto correct with that one but I'm sticking with my gimmick.

[JSUSoutherner]

Who cares? It's not like you are an actual Gamecock, I an actual Grizzly, or POD an actual Bison.

It's all pretty made up right?
Wanna bet? :D

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23207&stc=1

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Wanna bet? :D

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23207&stc=1

There is something I think you should see...I have it around here somewhere. Let me find it.

Oh yeah, here it is.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?183407-BisonFan02-s-man-guide-for-JSUSoutherner-and-others

Tell 02 to add dressing up like a furry to his list of don'ts if you could.xthumbsupx:D

[Bisonoline]

We weren't relevant but for some reason you can't stop talking about us.

xeyebrowxxrotatehx

[Hammerhead]

There were few Griz fans in Fargo because most of the seats go to season ticket holders and the rest sell out in a few minutes.



Montana doesnt travel that well unless its really close. Even our NC games in Tennessee there were only 5k people if that. 2 years ago in Fargo we had what 500-700 maybe? Maybe get 2-3k at Ewu games.

Its a myth

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There were few Griz fans in Fargo because most of the seats go to season ticket holders and the rest sell out in a few minutes.

From what I know, we took all that were given to us. Alpha likes to try to get a rise but he's doing it on the wrong board as that works great on egriz normally but those he used to get here ain't around too much.

[BisonFan02]

There is something I think you should see...I have it around here somewhere. Let me find it.

Oh yeah, here it is.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?183407-BisonFan02-s-man-guide-for-JSUSoutherner-and-others

Tell 02 to add dressing up like a furry to his list of don'ts if you could.xthumbsupx:D

Some **** is just assumed homey.... xlolx

[Twentysix]

So uhh... when is the stadium going to sell the multi-year deal again? I've been trying to buy championship tickets for months.

[JSUSoutherner]

There is something I think you should see...I have it around here somewhere. Let me find it.

Oh yeah, here it is.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?183407-BisonFan02-s-man-guide-for-JSUSoutherner-and-others

Tell 02 to add dressing up like a furry to his list of don'ts if you could.xthumbsupx:D
Why? It's pretty obviously from my photo that my Cock is bigger than yours and 02's.

If anything I need to start a thread telling you guys to step your game up. :D

[ASU33]

Nicely said. They dont want to play with the big kids. Pizz on them. Im good with that. They werent relevant any way.


You must be the only game in the FCS that gets a better crowd on thanksgiving. Which I don't really understand.... Still think it could move and be made to work but oh well

The Bayou Classic has turned into a family tradition for a lot of folks. They plan their Thanksgiving breaks around it. There was once talks about moving it up but the alums of the schools were completely against it. We moved The Turkey Day Classic from Thanksgiving to the Saturday before Thanksgiving for two seasons and our alums and locals were pissed! Attendance dropped from about 30,000 to about 18k. Now this year the game is back on Thanksgiving which is the way its been for 90+ years.

[CHIP72]

I only read the first few posts on the first page, plus the article linked by the original poster, but IMO the author of that linked article is really missing the boat if he thinks semifinal neutral site games will be better attended or make more money (or perhaps more accurately, lose less money) than playoff games hosted by participating teams. Outside of geographically large but sparsely populated states like North Dakota and Montana that lack pro football and/or FBS/Division I-A college teams, very few people care about FCS/DI-AA football, which is why pretty much all DI-AA teams draw crowds that pale in comparison with all NFL teams and many Division I-A college football teams. (It is also the reason why the ESPN contract mentioned in the linked article pays relatively little money.) Playing more neutral site playoff games will exacerbate the problem, not reduce it.

I agree that it is ridiculous the Ivy League doesn't participate in the playoffs, but that isn't breaking news - just about everyone who follows Ivy League football and/or roots for one or more Ivy League teams has thought that for a long time.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Why? It's pretty obviously from my photo that my Cock is bigger than yours and 02's.

If anything I need to start a thread telling you guys to step your game up. :D

No, it isn't.

[Thumper 76]

No, it isn't.

Honestly that's pretty impressive if he has to dress his entire body in order to be bigger

[BisonFan02]

Honestly that's pretty impressive if he has to dress his entire body in order to be bigger

All cock and no balls. Just like his Gamecocks and Coach Grass's "fortitude" punting on 4th and inches. :D

[Sonic98]

I was just reading this article. Is there anything that can be done to make the NCAA do more to give FCS it's just due? If America is so obsessed with football, why has FCS been so forgotten? 30,000 people will come out to see some low level FBS teams that have no chance at national prominence, but will ignore FCS teams in their own back yard. Is it because of where most of the more successful FCS teams are located?

[Derby City Duke]

I think because FCS relies primarily on its member schools to self-promote vs. FBS programs having the media marketing machines do their heavy lifting.

Coupled with the NCAA's putting their marquee championship in a soccer stadium with soccer scoreboards and an 11:00 local kickoff and it's no wonder many don't pay attention.

[cx500d]

I think because FCS relies primarily on its member schools to self-promote vs. FBS programs having the media marketing machines do their heavy lifting.

Coupled with the NCAA's putting their marquee championship in a soccer stadium with soccer scoreboards and an 11:00 local kickoff and it's no wonder many don't pay attention.


They are advertising it on billboards here in DFW. Its been on an electronic billboard near my work for a couple weeks. They really don't need to advertise it here, quite frankly because its been sold out for months, not counting the school allocations.

[Professor]

"For the MEAC and SWAC, the answer is clearly related to money." And an inability to actually win in the playoffs.....

Hilarious that you think this is about winning when the NCAA is robbing you blind. Bwhahaha

[cx500d]

Hilarious that you think this is about winning when the NCAA is robbing you blind. Bwhahaha
Money and a participation trophy, thats nice. What are you going to do with no sponsor?

[Gil Dobie]

"Now imagine three sites: Frisco, TX; Chattanooga, TN; and, say, Charleston, SC, alternating every three years hosting the semifinals and finals."

This is to solve the problem that "The issues with the FCS playoffs are really the gap between the idealized, fan-perspective playoffs and the real, FCS committee-administered playoffs."

I'm not sure what fans he has been studying, but I've never heard that fans were clamoring, "Hey, Southern teams need to have the final two rounds in their backyards because the HBCUs and the Ivy League schools are opting out of the playoffs." Not seeing what problems it solves other than ticket shortages.

I thought fans wanted more teams seeded - not some abortion of a system that gives unearned home fields to one region of the country. Heck, based on his stated problem, I guess he wants the HBCU and Ivy champ to get byes into the semi-finals?

My counter-proposal - three sites: KC, Minneapolis, and Chicago.
My counter-counter-proposal: Shut up or nut up, buttercup.

I'd counter propose Miami, maybe at FIU, instead of Charleston.

[Derby City Duke]

They are advertising it on billboards here in DFW. Its been on an electronic billboard near my work for a couple weeks. They really don't need to advertise it here, quite frankly because its been sold out for months, not counting the school allocations.

That's a good start. Provided the tournament produces an attractive match-up for the finals, the Metroplex will do a good job to take up the slack.

I wasn't able to watch either semi-final live, but was watching the ESPN family of networks on Saturday a.m. and early afternoon (had to leave to go shopping -- Christmas can be so inconvenient :) ). I saw a dozen promos for the 3-4 bowl games that day and not a single one for the SDSU/JMU game.

It's difficult enough building a reputation for the championship as a go-to type event if the network carrying the games relegates game info to the crawl...hopefully I'll be able to retire on my terms (with my health, that is) so I can make the trip every year. I like to travel, have relatives in Irving, and used to live in Central Texas -- good trip for me.

[Professor]

Money and a participation trophy, thats nice. What are you going to do with no sponsor?

You realize the bowl is owned by ESPN. Not having a sponsor is their issue. Our money comes from ESPN and ticket sales. And their are sponsors , just no title sponsor

[cx500d]

You realize the bowl is owned by ESPN. Not having a sponsor is their issue. Our money comes from ESPN and ticket sales. And their are sponsors , just no title sponsor


Sounds like a house of cards...ESPN bleeding money, firing people left and right, CEO just quit.... I'm sure finding a sponsor for the celebration bowl is right at the top of their list of things to do to right the company.

[Professor]

Sounds like a house of cards...ESPN bleeding money, firing people left and right, CEO just quit.... I'm sure finding a sponsor for the celebration bowl is right at the top of their list of things to do to right the company.

Bwhahaa, i hope so. We are walking into year 4 of 6. We got plenty of time

[Professor Chaos]

I think because FCS relies primarily on its member schools to self-promote vs. FBS programs having the media marketing machines do their heavy lifting.

Coupled with the NCAA's putting their marquee championship in a soccer stadium with soccer scoreboards and an 11:00 local kickoff and it's no wonder many don't pay attention.
As much as we don't like it as fans in attendance the 11AM CT (noon ET) kick time seems to be better for getting more TV eyeballs than a early afternoon kickoff. If you look at the Nielsen ratings for sports broadcasts the same amount of people watching a game at 3PM ET on a Saturday draws a higher rating than it does at noon ET which indicates that there's more people watching television at noon ET.

[ElCid]

I'd counter propose Miami, maybe at FIU, instead of Charleston.

Miami is too far from most dominant FCS locations. Charleston is a tourist destination as well and not terribly far from the CAA (southern teams at least), some of the OVC, and in the heart of the Big South and SOCON. It would actually in driving distance for huge amount of folks. And I am just a little biased. Plus when the new visitor side opens we will again have one of the best venues in FCS.

[TheKingpin28]

Bwhahaa, i hope so. We are walking into year 4 of 6. We got plenty of time

So what happens when they cancel this? Good luck getting an auto-bid back into the NCAA. Again, I get why these schools did this, but when you tell the NCAA we want nothing to do with the playoffs (outside of 6-7 schools who voted against this) it leaves a bad taste in the end. Personally, I would love if they went back to 16 teams, but that is on the NGTH list, so give me 20 and seed the damn field.

[Professor Chaos]

So what happens when they cancel this? Good luck getting an auto-bid back into the NCAA. Again, I get why these schools did this, but when you tell the NCAA we want nothing to do with the playoffs (outside of 6-7 schools who voted against this) it leaves a bad taste in the end. Personally, I would love if they went back to 16 teams, but that is on the NGTH list, so give me 20 and seed the damn field.
If the MEAC (or SWAC for that matter) wants their autobid back they should get it. At least that's my opinion and given the fact that the selection committee selected a MEAC team as an at-large last year with no MEAC representation on the committee tells me that there's not really any grudges held. Nor should there be IMO.

[Derby City Duke]

As much as we don't like it as fans in attendance the 11AM CT (noon ET) kick time seems to be better for getting more TV eyeballs than a early afternoon kickoff. If you look at the Nielsen ratings for sports broadcasts the same amount of people watching a game at 3PM ET on a Saturday draws a higher rating than it does at noon ET which indicates that there's more people watching television at noon ET.

xnodx

When you take into consideration the impact on scheduling that ESPN's NFL playoff weekend has on our championship, 11 a.m. local does make sense. I will tell you that 19 degrees at kickoff last January sucked -- the only saving grace was I was on the east side tucked in next to some YSU fans in the sunshine -- think my Army toughness has worn a bit since I left in '11.

[Professor]

So what happens when they cancel this? Good luck getting an auto-bid back into the NCAA. Again, I get why these schools did this, but when you tell the NCAA we want nothing to do with the playoffs (outside of 6-7 schools who voted against this) it leaves a bad taste in the end. Personally, I would love if they went back to 16 teams, but that is on the NGTH list, so give me 20 and seed the damn field.


Something else will be created. Its is a market for this, that's what you guys are missing. Before this it was the Heritage Bowl. Before that the Pelican Bowl. This concept isn't going away. Its a winter bowl game between black colleges.

Playoffs are nice but not a end all be all for our product. We aren't moving on a weeks notice till ND, TX or SD. Just not gonna happen and then when u add the financials into it, it makes no logical sense.

Maybe this semi final and final thing will work and we will reconsider. But after what i have experienced the last 3 years, i doubt we ever go back to the FCS playoffs

[TheKingpin28]

If the MEAC (or SWAC for that matter) wants their autobid back they should get it. At least that's my opinion and given the fact that the selection committee selected a MEAC team as an at-large last year with no MEAC representation on the committee tells me that there's not really any grudges held. Nor should there be IMO.

See, I see it as this.

"You told us you wanted no part of this, except for the select few schools, so why should we let you back into our tournament when you left to go play your own little game."

[TheKingpin28]

Something else will be created. Its is a market for this, that's what you guys are missing. Before this it was the Heritage Bowl. Before that the Pelican Bowl. This concept isn't going away. Its a winter bowl game between black colleges.

Playoffs are nice but not a end all be all for our product. We aren't moving on a weeks notice till ND, TX or SD. Just not gonna happen and then when u add the financials into it, it makes no logical sense.

Maybe this semi final and final thing will work and we will reconsider. But after what i have experienced the last 3 years, i doubt we ever go back to the FCS playoffs

And that is fine by me. I just want the best teams in it who are willing to do what is necessary to win it all. Plus, when the NCAA funds this (travel, meals, etc...) the financials are almost non-existent. Since their cash-grab basketball tournament funds practically every other tournament not named Baseball, this is a "free" shot to be the true D1 champion.

[Professor Chaos]

See, I see it as this.

"You told us you wanted no part of this, except for the select few schools, so why should we let you back into our tournament when you left to go play your own little game."
Because they left for their own game since it made more financial sense for them. And, at least for the MEAC, they didn't all leave they just said that their champion would not be in consideration thereby forfeiting their autobid. I don't think you should blame a school/conference for doing what's best for themselves financially given how strapped most FCS athletic budgets are. It's not like MEAC/SWAC schools were going to be winning any titles anyway so it doesn't hurt the FCS playoffs that much either. That's why I don't think there's any need to hold a grudge about it.

[cx500d]

My opinion: We are is a division that is called Football Championship Subdivision. It should be a requirement that all schools sanctioned at that level participate in the Championship portion if they are qualified/selected. If they don't participate, they are no longer sanctioned, and no NCAA member can schedule them. That goes for the Ivies also. If they don't want to play, cancel football; make it a club sport, but you aren't doing it under the NCAA umbrella.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think because FCS relies primarily on its member schools to self-promote vs. FBS programs having the media marketing machines do their heavy lifting.

Coupled with the NCAA's putting their marquee championship in a soccer stadium with soccer scoreboards and an 11:00 local kickoff and it's no wonder many don't pay attention.

Very much this. Isn't ESPN supposed to be a "media marketing machine?" Where are they in terms of the FCS playoffs, out to lunch?

[Panther88]

My opinion: We are is a division that is called Football Championship Subdivision. It should be a requirement that all schools sanctioned at that level participate in the Championship portion if they are qualified/selected. If they don't participate, they are no longer sanctioned, and no NCAA member can schedule them. That goes for the Ivies also. If they don't want to play, cancel football; make it a club sport, but you aren't doing it under the NCAA umbrella.

So, why do some fcs playoff schools continue to schedule FBS, D-IIers, and even NAIAers? If you're pro keeping it all in the fcs family, why not simply segregate and relegate yourselves to fcs vs fcs only competition in football and not the other sports? Doing such would ensure your pending extinction, in terms of public perception/notoriety, would be evident soonest.

[BisonBacker]

My opinion: We are is a division that is called Football Championship Subdivision. It should be a requirement that all schools sanctioned at that level participate in the Championship portion if they are qualified/selected. If they don't participate, they are no longer sanctioned, and no NCAA member can schedule them. That goes for the Ivies also. If they don't want to play, cancel football; make it a club sport, but you aren't doing it under the NCAA umbrella.

I agree!!

[BisonBacker]

Very much this. Isn't ESPN supposed to be a "media marketing machine?" Where are they in terms of the FCS playoffs, out to lunch?

Follow the $$$$$$

[cx500d]

So, why do some fcs playoff schools continue to schedule FBS, D-IIers, and even NAIAers? If you're pro keeping it all in the fcs family, why not simply segregate and relegate yourselves to fcs vs fcs only competition in football and not the other sports? Doing such would ensure your pending extinction, in terms of public perception/notoriety, would be evident soonest.


FBS and Div2 is still in the NCAA umbrella. I said nothing about not scheduling FBS or DIV 2 games in FCS. That said, if a team chooses not to participate in all NCAA activities within their division, then they aren't an NCAA team for scheduling purposes, so NCAA teams can't schedule them (irrespective of division). NAIA they can do what they want as its not a sanctioned NCAA event.

[Professor]

My opinion: We are is a division that is called Football Championship Subdivision. It should be a requirement that all schools sanctioned at that level participate in the Championship portion if they are qualified/selected. If they don't participate, they are no longer sanctioned, and no NCAA member can schedule them. That goes for the Ivies also. If they don't want to play, cancel football; make it a club sport, but you aren't doing it under the NCAA umbrella.

You do realize the NCAA sanctioned the Celebration Bowl right

[Go...gate]

My opinion: We are is a division that is called Football Championship Subdivision. It should be a requirement that all schools sanctioned at that level participate in the Championship portion if they are qualified/selected. If they don't participate, they are no longer sanctioned, and no NCAA member can schedule them. That goes for the Ivies also. If they don't want to play, cancel football; make it a club sport, but you aren't doing it under the NCAA umbrella.

+1

[ST_Lawson]

Miami is too far from most dominant FCS locations. Charleston is a tourist destination as well and not terribly far from the CAA (southern teams at least), some of the OVC, and in the heart of the Big South and SOCON. It would actually in driving distance for huge amount of folks. And I am just a little biased. Plus when the new visitor side opens we will again have one of the best venues in FCS.

Maybe, although Charlotte might be a bit easier for people to get to, what with the major airport there.
I'd suggest American Legion Memorial Stadium, but I think it's pretty run-down these days, and the neighborhood isn't great (or wasn't when I was last there...maybe 20 years ago). Maybe UNC Charlotte's stadium...looks like it's in a nice area.

Alternately, I like:
Nashville - once their new soccer stadium (https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2017/08/14/TennGroup/Clarksville/636383221361860988-Bowl-North-Endzone-XL-MLS-2-.jpg) is done
Atlanta - Georgia State's new stadium: https://gsugameday.com/stadium/

Indoor stadiums that are more to the north might also work, but weather could be an issue. They do have bowl games in Boise (outside), Detroit (inside), and NYC (outside), and generally make it work though, so it might be ok.
Minneapolis, Indy, and St. Louis all have domed stadiums (in a dome you can often put up "curtains" to block off the upper levels so 12k people wouldn't feel like 10 people in a 75k seat stadium) and decent airports.

[Pinnum]

So move the semifinals to a neutral site?

Do you want to kill the little money that's currently brought in? Because that's how you kill the money that's currently brought in.


So many people are extremely confident when deciding how other people's money should be spent...

[ASU33]

Maybe, although Charlotte might be a bit easier for people to get to, what with the major airport there.
I'd suggest American Legion Memorial Stadium, but I think it's pretty run-down these days, and the neighborhood isn't great (or wasn't when I was last there...maybe 20 years ago). Maybe UNC Charlotte's stadium...looks like it's in a nice area.

Alternately, I like:
Nashville - once their new soccer stadium (https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2017/08/14/TennGroup/Clarksville/636383221361860988-Bowl-North-Endzone-XL-MLS-2-.jpg) is done
Atlanta - Georgia State's new stadium: https://gsugameday.com/stadium/

Indoor stadiums that are more to the north might also work, but weather could be an issue. They do have bowl games in Boise (outside), Detroit (inside), and NYC (outside), and generally make it work though, so it might be ok.
Minneapolis, Indy, and St. Louis all have domed stadiums (in a dome you can often put up "curtains" to block off the upper levels so 12k people wouldn't feel like 10 people in a 75k seat stadium) and decent airports.

That Nashville stadium is nice!

[Gil Dobie]

Miami is too far from most dominant FCS locations. Charleston is a tourist destination as well and not terribly far from the CAA (southern teams at least), some of the OVC, and in the heart of the Big South and SOCON. It would actually in driving distance for huge amount of folks. And I am just a little biased. Plus when the new visitor side opens we will again have one of the best venues in FCS.

I prefer WARM in January, that's my argument.

[Bisonoline]

I prefer WARM in January, that's my argument.

Went to the Orange Bowl one year and it was 32 degrees at kick off.

[ElCid]

Maybe, although Charlotte might be a bit easier for people to get to, what with the major airport there.
I'd suggest American Legion Memorial Stadium, but I think it's pretty run-down these days, and the neighborhood isn't great (or wasn't when I was last there...maybe 20 years ago). Maybe UNC Charlotte's stadium...looks like it's in a nice area.

Alternately, I like:
Nashville - once their new soccer stadium (https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2017/08/14/TennGroup/Clarksville/636383221361860988-Bowl-North-Endzone-XL-MLS-2-.jpg) is done
Atlanta - Georgia State's new stadium: https://gsugameday.com/stadium/

Indoor stadiums that are more to the north might also work, but weather could be an issue. They do have bowl games in Boise (outside), Detroit (inside), and NYC (outside), and generally make it work though, so it might be ok.
Minneapolis, Indy, and St. Louis all have domed stadiums (in a dome you can often put up "curtains" to block off the upper levels so 12k people wouldn't feel like 10 people in a 75k seat stadium) and decent airports.

I would buy that. Better centralized SE location. But like I said, I am somewhat biased.

I really wish they could delay naming a location longer to see who is actually in it. I know that is not realistic, but what if NDSU and SDSU had been the teams. That would have been a travesty to play in Texas.

[Gil Dobie]

Went to the Orange Bowl one year and it was 32 degrees at kick off.

I'll take the odds of it being warmer most years.

[ST_Lawson]

I would buy that. Better centralized SE location. But like I said, I am somewhat biased.

I really wish they could delay naming a location longer to see who is actually in it. I know that is not realistic, but what if NDSU and SDSU had been the teams. That would have been a travesty to play in Texas.

I think NDSU fans are fine with heading to Frisco (don't most of them have second homes down there by now anyway?). You're not wrong though, if it was NDSU and SDSU and it was held at, for example, the Viking's new stadium...some bank stadium I think...can't remember...I just call it The Longboat, they'd probably fill the place.

Also, regarding the Nashville soccer stadium, here's more info: http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/08/14/nashville-major-league-soccer-group-unveils-first-look-stadium-proposed-fairgrounds/564469001/

I think they're actually supposed to announce that Nashville is officially getting a MLS team tomorrow, so while it's not technically official yet, I think it will be in a matter of days.

[cx500d]

You do realize the NCAA sanctioned the Celebration Bowl right


Your point? My comment was MY opinion, not current policy. If MY opinion was current policy, the NCAA wouldn't have sanctioned the celebration bowl, would they? NCA&T would have been competing for the national championship, probably getting beat in the 1st round given past history. Grambling wouldn't have made it in, most likely.

[walliver]

CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENTS: The total attendance for the Division I FCS Tournament was 192,034 for an 8,349 average over 23 games,

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2016.pdf

That's the real problem with the playoffs. and it's not fixable. The median FCS attendance during the regular season is well below 10,000.


2016 NCAA DIVISION I FCS CONFERENCE ATTENDANCE

Total 2016 Change

Rank Division I FCS Teams Games Attendance Average In Avg.

1. Southwestern Athletic 10 48 678,355 14,132 1,309
2. Missouri Valley Football 10 61 676,810 11,095 179
3. Big Sky 13 72 699,765 9,719 -158
4. Colonial 12 70 646,272 9,232 226
5. Mid-Eastern 11 52 459,184 8,830 -107
6. Ohio Valley 9 46 388,055 8,436 -641
7. Southern# 9 49 410,923 8,386 176
8. Southland 9 50 399,915 7,998 538
9. Ivy 8 40 304,159 7,604 -1,261
10. Big South# 6 30 206,905 6,897 -382
11. Patriot 7 36 204,994 5,694 119
12. Pioneer 11 61 201,514 3,304 -137
13. Northeast 7 36 86,100 2,392 -270


Only 2 FCS conferences, the SWAC and MVFC average over 10,000 a game. The SWAC has a niche product which sells well, and the MVFC, if located in a more densely populated region, would be FBS.
FCS, in most of the country consists primarily of smaller private schools and "directional" state schools which are overshadowed by their larger flagship brethren.
It is what it is.
Neutral site semifinal games will not draw well. FCS playoff games will not compete well on television against the NFL, NBA, and big time college basketball games.

[Hammerhead]

Neutral site semifinals would have zero impact on TV ratings. Attendance would probably plummet since many people can't/won't spend money to travel long distances on a week's notice for the chance to play in a championship game.

[uni88]

Your point? My comment was MY opinion, not current policy. If MY opinion was current policy, the NCAA wouldn't have sanctioned the celebration bowl, would they? NCA&T would have been competing for the national championship, probably getting beat in the 1st round given past history. Grambling wouldn't have made it in, most likely.
Doesn't following your recommendation to the letter mean that Alabama, Ohio State, etc. have to drop football? The FBS championship is not an NCAA event.

[Pinnum]

My opinion: We are is a division that is called Football Championship Subdivision. It should be a requirement that all schools sanctioned at that level participate in the Championship portion if they are qualified/selected. If they don't participate, they are no longer sanctioned, and no NCAA member can schedule them. That goes for the Ivies also. If they don't want to play, cancel football; make it a club sport, but you aren't doing it under the NCAA umbrella.

Any NCAA program can opt out of any event they want. This is why teams are permitted to institute a self-imposed post season ban.

What you're asking for is that no team may compete in a post season event other than the NCAA Championship, when selected for the NCAA Championship. They may opt out of championships all together but if chosen to play in the championship that would be their only post season option.

This is actually the requirement for NCAA basketball. Teams may opt out of the NCAA tournament but they can only play in the NIT, CBI, CIT, if they are not selected for the NCAA tournament. There are however, some anti-trust concerns about this, which is why the NCAA bought out the Manhattan Group which owned the NIT.

Football has always been different than other sports. The NCAA doesn't have too much control over football because the member schools want to have a lot of autonomy when it comes to their football programs. This is why the College Football Championship (FBS Playoff) is operated by the conferences and not by the NCAA.

The reality is that the SWAC would take football over the NCAA and no other conferences care enough to try to strong arm the SWAC.

[Pinnum]

A neutral site semi-final would be like a G5 low end bowl game. You'd need to find the hosts and sponsors to put the money into it.

But on top of that, you'd also have to guarantee tickets. As a condition of playing in bowl games, the selected teams are required to guarantee a certain number of tickets will be sold. If they are not sold, the school has to pay for the tickets.

The only reason these low end G5 bowls remain viable is because they are subsidized. All the FBS conferences (plus Notre Dame) get a share of the Football Playoff television money. There is a revenue sharing system in place similar to the NCAA March Madness tournament. The G5 conferences get roughly 30% of the TV money despite never playing in these games. This money is used to fund their G5 Bowl Games.

The model doesn't work for FCS because they are only subsidized by the NCAA and non-FCS teams, and even non-FCS championship quality teams, are not going to approve of subsidizing these games. You can bet that Davidson, Georgetown, Presbyterian, IUPUI, Grand Canyon, Manhattan, Seattle, and many others would all oppose increased spending on the FCS tournament since they would be the ones paying for it.

[Bisonoline]

A neutral site semi-final would be like a G5 low end bowl game. You'd need to find the hosts and sponsors to put the money into it.

But on top of that, you'd also have to guarantee tickets. As a condition of playing in bowl games, the selected teams are required to guarantee a certain number of tickets will be sold. If they are not sold, the school has to pay for the tickets.

The only reason these low end G5 bowls remain viable is because they are subsidized. All the FBS conferences (plus Notre Dame) get a share of the Football Playoff television money. There is a revenue sharing system in place similar to the NCAA March Madness tournament. The G5 conferences get roughly 30% of the TV money despite never playing in these games. This money is used to fund their G5 Bowl Games.

The model doesn't work for FCS because they are only subsidized by the NCAA and non-FCS teams, and even non-FCS championship quality teams, are not going to approve of subsidizing these games. You can bet that Davidson, Georgetown, Presbyterian, IUPUI, Grand Canyon, Manhattan, Seattle, and many others would all oppose increased spending on the FCS tournament since they would be the ones paying for it.

This is not true anymore. Schools now negotiate on the number of tickets that they can sell. If they dont sell all of them the conference eats the cost as all of the bowl money is now pooled.

[Hammerhead]

This is not true anymore. Schools now negotiate on the number of tickets that they can sell. If they dont sell all of them the conference eats the cost as all of the bowl money is now pooled.

So the entire conference has to eat 20,000 unsold tickets instead of just one team doing that? LOL

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A neutral site semi-final would be like a G5 low end bowl game. You'd need to find the hosts and sponsors to put the money into it.

But on top of that, you'd also have to guarantee tickets. As a condition of playing in bowl games, the selected teams are required to guarantee a certain number of tickets will be sold. If they are not sold, the school has to pay for the tickets.

With the right sized venue and proper placement (i.e. close to major airports), these are small concerns. This is not a UConn/Fiesta Bowl situation where the Bowl extorts millions from the schools to pay inflated prices for everything. Additionally, with proper placement some teams might be able to do bus rides (like many schools did when the national championship was in Chatty, Sam Houston when they played in Frisco, etc.).

[Pinnum]

With the right sized venue and proper placement (i.e. close to major airports), these are small concerns. This is not a UConn/Fiesta Bowl situation where the Bowl extorts millions from the schools to pay inflated prices for everything. Additionally, with proper placement some teams might be able to do bus rides (like many schools did when the national championship was in Chatty, Sam Houston when they played in Frisco, etc.).

Small concerns that would be saved by regional drives or being close to an airport?

Okay. Tell me this...

How many visiting fans are at Semi-Final games right now? If we looked back at the last five years, how many visiting fans would we see that make the trip?

There were 16k fans at the 23k seat stadium at JMU. There were 18k at NDSU.


How many were in attendance but only because it was local and they go to the home games each weekend anyways?

How many of those will travel for a semi-final game?

I suspect the number of visiting fans is very low. We could use the 2016 FCS National Championship game as a proxy though. Let's say it is 6k fans per team. The semi-final is more prone to having a team without a large following playing than the National Championship game but let's ignore that reality.

That is 24k fans for two games. Are the games on the same day to save money? Or two different days so you have to pay double the hosting fees? If they are the same day, do you buy a ticket that covers a double header game or as they separate sessions? Does this rule out any facility with grass since it might be destroyed in the first game?

You now have to pay for the travel party for double the number of schools which will drastically drive up expenses. Of course you say that it could be near a major airport (Atlanta, Dallas, etc.). Which really means it would be a high rent facility and/or in an area which has other entertainment options available which means you're not going to see many people from the community that are interested in going to the game(s).

Additionally, how many people two travel twice, around the holidays, to see their team play?

I would suspect that if people did travel for the semi-final they would watch the Championship game on TV at home. Though it likely makes more sense that they would say "My vacation days are reset at the start of the new year. If the team makes the National Championship game, I will go. But I can just watch the semi-final at home."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Small concerns that would be saved by regional drives or being close to an airport?

Okay. Tell me this...

How many visiting fans are at Semi-Final games right now? If we looked back at the last five years, how many visiting fans would we see that make the trip? *snip*

Let's take a look at this year's FCS semi's and use my original three neutral-site locations: Charleston, Chatty, and Frisco.

Best situation:

Chatty hosts JMU vs. SDSU - JMU, brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (short flight) SDSU brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (flight or caravan) -close to sellout, capacity 20k

Frisco hosts NDSU vs. Sam - bus ride for Sam, NDSU brings 9k or 10k to Frisco - bet near-sellout

Worst situation:

Charleston hosts NDSU vs. Sam, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

Frisco hosts JMU and SDSU, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

In best case you get sellouts in neutral stadiums, but even more importantly you get a true melding of college football fanbases like you do in Frisco. NDSU semifinal games are basically NDSU home games with even fewer away fans than usual (and sometimes on campuses without students). These new playoff games would have a more bowl-like atmosphere, would (as described here) encourage the participation of locals, and even more importantly would freshen up the obligatory Fargodome ESPN shots every December.

And personally I think overall, over time, it's a money winner. With the added spectacle and backing, I believe many more fans would come to all three games. I mean, nobody complains that the CFP semifinals game don't have enough fans or interest, so why should that be the case in FCS?

[ST_Lawson]

Ok, but what if WIU were to make the semifinals and bring our whopping 62 fans (mostly parents)?

Also, re: airports...the destinations might be near decent airports, but sometimes the fans aren't. I still think semifinals in home locations is the better way to go. That way you can at least get the local fans.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ok, but what if WIU were to make the semifinals and bring our whopping 62 fans (mostly parents)?

Also, re: airports...the destinations might be near decent airports, but sometimes the fans aren't. I still think semifinals in home locations is the better way to go. That way you can at least get the local fans.

There is always a risk of a smaller fan base making a run to the semi's, but then again WIU hosting a semifinal game might not be a money-winner either.

[Pinnum]

Chatty hosts JMU vs. SDSU - JMU, brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (short flight) SDSU brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (flight or caravan) -close to sellout, capacity 20k



Did SDSU bring 8k to JMU? Why do you think they would take that many to Chattanooga? Chattanooga is an 18 hour drive one way for them and a regional airport if they fly. The fans aren't getting any better flights than they would flying to Atlanta and driving up which is no different than flying to DC and driving to Harrisonburg.

The National Championship game, the last year it was in Chattanooga was attended by
14,328. The Semi-Finals won't draw as well.

So you want to split the semi-finals and make them regional in hopes of making attendance better while driving up the hosting costs?

I have witnessed drastic diminishing returns when fans have to do a little bit of traveling. It is why the NCAA basketball tournament is so poorly attended (outside of the Final Four which is a big basketball expo and celebration).

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

1660 Bison radio said one of the Sirius XM sports radio stations has been spending about 2 hours a day, this week, on the FCS championship game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Did SDSU bring 8k to JMU? Why do you think they would take that many to Chattanooga? Chattanooga is an 18 hour drive one way for them and a regional airport if they fly. The fans aren't getting any better flights than they would flying to Atlanta and driving up which is no different than flying to DC and driving to Harrisonburg.

The National Championship game, the last year it was in Chattanooga was attended by
14,328
. The Semi-Finals won't draw as well.

So you want to split the semi-finals and make them regional in hopes of making attendance better while driving up the hosting costs?

I have witnessed drastic diminishing returns when fans have to do a little bit of traveling. It is why the NCAA basketball tournament is so poorly attended (outside of the Final Four which is a big basketball expo and celebration).


And the FCS Final Four can't be a "big football expo and celebration"?

[Hammerhead]

The "bowl-like atmosphere" would be like the Frisco Bowl with maybe 2,000 fans. I've been to 3 of the championship games in Frisco, but there's no way I'm driving/flying there for a semifinal game. Most football fans who follow P5 teams don't give a hoot about FCS or the lower tier bowls the G5 teams play in.



Let's take a look at this year's FCS semi's and use my original three neutral-site locations: Charleston, Chatty, and Frisco.

Best situation:

Chatty hosts JMU vs. SDSU - JMU, brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (short flight) SDSU brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (flight or caravan) -close to sellout, capacity 20k

Frisco hosts NDSU vs. Sam - bus ride for Sam, NDSU brings 9k or 10k to Frisco - bet near-sellout

Worst situation:

Charleston hosts NDSU vs. Sam, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

Frisco hosts JMU and SDSU, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

In best case you get sellouts in neutral stadiums, but even more importantly you get a true melding of college football fanbases like you do in Frisco. NDSU semifinal games are basically NDSU home games with even fewer away fans than usual (and sometimes on campuses without students). These new playoff games would have a more bowl-like atmosphere, would (as described here) encourage the participation of locals, and even more importantly would freshen up the obligatory Fargodome ESPN shots every December.

And personally I think overall, over time, it's a money winner. With the added spectacle and backing, I believe many more fans would come to all three games. I mean, nobody complains that the CFP semifinals game don't have enough fans or interest, so why should that be the case in FCS?

[Pinnum]

And the FCS Final Four can't be a "big football expo and celebration"?

No, it can't.

And there are a few reasons for that.

1. You have the semi-finals at two different sites. You said this regional focus will make it easier for fans to travel within their regional semi-final. If you move to won site you lose that feature you pitched.
2. You have one day of games. The Basketball Final-4 is three days because they play Saturday and Sunday. So there is an off day in-between that FCS football wouldn't have.
3. The basketball Final-4 is the premier event of the season and is attended by coaches at the D1, D2, D3, etc ranks. The FCS Championship won't attract the FBS coaches (and may not even attract other FCS coaches).

The basketball Final Four is big because coaches are networking. Companies are marketing. And everyone is partying. People are there for the basketball games first but with the Saturday and Monday games it gives dead time that has been filled by ancillary programming. This is not something would be accomplished at the FCS level. In fact, it isn't even accomplished at the FBS level where they also have a four team play-off.

The structure of college football just isn't conducive.

[POD Knows]

Let's take a look at this year's FCS semi's and use my original three neutral-site locations: Charleston, Chatty, and Frisco.

Best situation:

Chatty hosts JMU vs. SDSU - JMU, brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (short flight) SDSU brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (flight or caravan) -close to sellout, capacity 20k

Frisco hosts NDSU vs. Sam - bus ride for Sam, NDSU brings 9k or 10k to Frisco - bet near-sellout

Worst situation:

Charleston hosts NDSU vs. Sam, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

Frisco hosts JMU and SDSU, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

In best case you get sellouts in neutral stadiums, but even more importantly you get a true melding of college football fanbases like you do in Frisco. NDSU semifinal games are basically NDSU home games with even fewer away fans than usual (and sometimes on campuses without students). These new playoff games would have a more bowl-like atmosphere, would (as described here) encourage the participation of locals, and even more importantly would freshen up the obligatory Fargodome ESPN shots every December.

And personally I think overall, over time, it's a money winner. With the added spectacle and backing, I believe many more fans would come to all three games. I mean, nobody complains that the CFP semifinals game don't have enough fans or interest, so why should that be the case in FCS?The teams earn the right to host the semi's based on their performance during the year and how the actual playoffs shake out. Why would you increase travel costs potentially for BOTH teams and end up with lower attendance. Makes no sense. There is nothing wrong with the way it is structured now. NDSU and JMU earned the home fields that received during the playoff's.

[gsf23nd]

Let's take a look at this year's FCS semi's and use my original three neutral-site locations: Charleston, Chatty, and Frisco.

Best situation:

Chatty hosts JMU vs. SDSU - JMU, brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (short flight) SDSU brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (flight or caravan) -close to sellout, capacity 20k

Frisco hosts NDSU vs. Sam - bus ride for Sam, NDSU brings 9k or 10k to Frisco - bet near-sellout

Worst situation:

Charleston hosts NDSU vs. Sam, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

Frisco hosts JMU and SDSU, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

In best case you get sellouts in neutral stadiums, but even more importantly you get a true melding of college football fanbases like you do in Frisco. NDSU semifinal games are basically NDSU home games with even fewer away fans than usual (and sometimes on campuses without students). These new playoff games would have a more bowl-like atmosphere, would (as described here) encourage the participation of locals, and even more importantly would freshen up the obligatory Fargodome ESPN shots every December.

And personally I think overall, over time, it's a money winner. With the added spectacle and backing, I believe many more fans would come to all three games. I mean, nobody complains that the CFP semifinals game don't have enough fans or interest, so why should that be the case in FCS?

Then get better.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One thing to think about too is the fact that there are two and a half weeks between the semi's and final. The attendance for the final, wherever it's played, would likely be the same since there would be the same lead time to make travel arrangements. But when the playoff was 16 teams and the final was in Chatty, attendance at the game wasn't really a problem even with a week turnaround.

Picking a low-attended game, Delaware/Colgate in 2003 drew 14,000+ fans to the game on a week's notice, so even taking into account the fact that attendance has changed, it seems to stand to reason that 9-10k seems like a low water mark for attendance - and with some good marketing and some good local participation, it could be higher. If a neutral site has a local team within driving distance, the totals would be even higher.

As for the networking/marketing/partying aspects, isn't that up to someone in charge in the world of FCS to set up that environment? There's no rule saying that there can't be parties and events and marketing. Chatty did stuff like that when it hosted the championship - perhaps in a more limited way, but they definitely had meetings, networking, and promotion of the championship. Why can't something like that also happen in a semifinal?

[Pinnum]

One thing to think about too is the fact that there are two and a half weeks between the semi's and final. The attendance for the final, wherever it's played, would likely be the same since there would be the same lead time to make travel arrangements. But when the playoff was 16 teams and the final was in Chatty, attendance at the game wasn't really a problem even with a week turnaround.

Picking a low-attended game, Delaware/Colgate in 2003 drew 14,000+ fans to the game on a week's notice, so even taking into account the fact that attendance has changed, it seems to stand to reason that 9-10k seems like a low water mark for attendance - and with some good marketing and some good local participation, it could be higher. If a neutral site has a local team within driving distance, the totals would be even higher.

As for the networking/marketing/partying aspects, isn't that up to someone in charge in the world of FCS to set up that environment? There's no rule saying that there can't be parties and events and marketing. Chatty did stuff like that when it hosted the championship - perhaps in a more limited way, but they definitely had meetings, networking, and promotion of the championship. Why can't something like that also happen in a semifinal?

That is a poor comparison for a few reasons.

1. The extended turn around is broken up by Christmas/New Years. You have two types of people that will be limited in their ability to travel for both of those games: Those without the money at that time of year to make two trips and those who have the money but lack the time available.
2. You're using the Championship game as a proxy for the semi-final. But people don't travel to the semi-finals right now. They Championship game is different. That is the tipping point that people are most likely to travel to see a game because it is a rare event and people are willing to splurge on one trip.


If over the course of a few years, the semi-finals are selling 5k tickets to the visiting semi-final team, then I would say there is demand for tickets from fans willing to travel. But I doubt we see that.

I have never seen anything that has made me think demand is high for traveling fans. Here is a stadium shot of the JMU Semi-Final: http://jmusports.com/galleries/?gallery=5554

I do not see fans traveling twice, once right before the holidays, and again right after the holidays. They will go to their home stadium though.

If demand for tickets was so high, you would see the games moved. The bid to host figures are indicative of demand and we clearly don't have the figures needed to support the move.

[POD Knows]

That is a poor comparison for a few reasons.

1. The extended turn around is broken up by Christmas/New Years. You have two types of people that will be limited in their ability to travel for both of those games: Those without the money at that time of year to make two trips and those who have the money but lack the time available.
2. You're using the Championship game as a proxy for the semi-final. But people don't travel to the semi-finals right now. They Championship game is different. That is the tipping point that people are most likely to travel to see a game because it is a rare event and people are willing to splurge on one trip.


If over the course of a few years, the semi-finals are selling 5k tickets to the visiting semi-final team, then I would say there is demand for tickets from fans willing to travel. But I doubt we see that.

I have never seen anything that has made me think demand is high for traveling fans. Here is a stadium shot of the JMU Semi-Final: http://jmusports.com/galleries/?gallery=5554

I do not see fans traveling twice, once right before the holidays, and again right after the holidays. They will go to their home stadium though.

If demand for tickets was so high, you would see the games moved. The bid to host figures are indicative of demand and we clearly don't have the figures needed to support the move.No way I would travel twice, all this is a hand full of posters that know their teams will never get a home field advantage in the later stages of the playoffs and they are butt hurt over it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If demand for tickets was so high, you would see the games moved. The bid to host figures are indicative of demand and we clearly don't have the figures needed to support the move.

I get what you're saying, but to some degree, isn't this circular logic? I've seen too many times attendance being used to justify whatever conclusions have already been reached. Great attendance? Great - why upset the apple cart? Disappointing attendance? Of course we can't change anything - if attendance is disappointing here, where JMU fans are in line to watch their 9th home game of the year, why would we expect them to want something different by taking a short flight to Chattanooga?

I think it's quite possible that a home site vs. a neutral site might be equally attended, but with a 50/50 split of diehards of both schools in a neutral travel destination that makes for a better environment... which leads to more locals going to the game anyway... which leads to better overall attendance.... which makes the semifinals into a bigger event.

What makes the best bowls into big events? Great games, of course, but also having two sets of marching bands, cheering sections, and fans. That could be done at home semifinal sites, but the way things are structured now, these things don't happen, and I think that they would be more likely to happen with a Frisco or Chattanooga working with the NCAA and FCS to make it happen. But of course that requires a mindset that isn't self-defeating.

[Pinnum]

I get what you're saying, but to some degree, isn't this circular logic? I've seen too many times attendance being used to justify whatever conclusions have already been reached. Great attendance? Great - why upset the apple cart? Disappointing attendance? Of course we can't change anything - if attendance is disappointing here, where JMU fans are in line to watch their 9th home game of the year, why would we expect them to want something different by taking a short flight to Chattanooga?

I think it's quite possible that a home site vs. a neutral site might be equally attended, but with a 50/50 split of diehards of both schools in a neutral travel destination that makes for a better environment... which leads to more locals going to the game anyway... which leads to better overall attendance.... which makes the semifinals into a bigger event.

What makes the best bowls into big events? Great games, of course, but also having two sets of marching bands, cheering sections, and fans. That could be done at home semifinal sites, but the way things are structured now, these things don't happen, and I think that they would be more likely to happen with a Frisco or Chattanooga working with the NCAA and FCS to make it happen. But of course that requires a mindset that isn't self-defeating.

I attend MANY NCAA championships in different sports.

The NCAA wants neutral championships and they often move them before they are financially viable, if they think it could work.

It isn't self defeating. It is reality. Most NCAA final stages start and stop in three days. That makes them viable. Football requires one week. This makes it very difficult. If you could play a Saturday and a Monday game, I would be all for it.

You claim that the people will travel. Show the demand first. Even moderate demand. I don't see any demand.

The best drawing conference in FCS doesn't participate in the playoffs. Only 7 of the top-15 FCS attendance leaders for 2016 would have participated in the playoff this year.

The semi-finals draw well because of the bidding process. It ensures that the program with the most demand for tickets is hosting.

The semi-finals do NOT draw well because visiting teams travel. If they did, there would be no bidding process and the host would be the higher seed, like in NCAA men's soccer where there is no expectation of covering costs.

[Noryan34]

Let's take a look at this year's FCS semi's and use my original three neutral-site locations: Charleston, Chatty, and Frisco.

Best situation:

Chatty hosts JMU vs. SDSU - JMU, brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (short flight) SDSU brings 8k or 9k to Chatty (flight or caravan) -close to sellout, capacity 20k

Frisco hosts NDSU vs. Sam - bus ride for Sam, NDSU brings 9k or 10k to Frisco - bet near-sellout

Worst situation:

Charleston hosts NDSU vs. Sam, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

Frisco hosts JMU and SDSU, 2 long flights, bring combined 10k fans

In best case you get sellouts in neutral stadiums, but even more importantly you get a true melding of college football fanbases like you do in Frisco. NDSU semifinal games are basically NDSU home games with even fewer away fans than usual (and sometimes on campuses without students). These new playoff games would have a more bowl-like atmosphere, would (as described here) encourage the participation of locals, and even more importantly would freshen up the obligatory Fargodome ESPN shots every December.

And personally I think overall, over time, it's a money winner. With the added spectacle and backing, I believe many more fans would come to all three games. I mean, nobody complains that the CFP semifinals game don't have enough fans or interest, so why should that be the case in FCS?

SDSU couldn't get 6k fans to brave the cold for a home playoff game and your expecting 8-9k to travel to Tennessee? And SHSU also didnt get 6k for a home playoff game so in all 5k of those go to Toyota Stadium in order to be close to a sell out NDSU would have to bring what 12-14k? They wouldn't get close to that with the prospect of doing the same trip again 2-3 weeks later.

And your talking best case scenario. The only way to make any of this work would be a corporate sponsor throwing in chunks of cash.

[Pinnum]

I should add... per your defeating mindset remark, that the campus model is how you develop interest in the championship and get people to travel.

When people get excited about the playoffs, show up to a great value with a robust crowd, and then see their team win, that is when they are more likely to travel to the championship.

The model FCS uses is one that cultivates the fan base. This is the model that would allow for the championship to grow to neutral site semi-finals. And, frankly, I think it has done that. It has succeeded in that goal. It developed the fan bases needed to be able to handle a neutral site semi-finals.

So, you may ask: Why don't we have them today and why am I saying they are not viable if they have developed the fan bases to support it?

It is simple. The teams that benefitted from the system have developed their fan bases and their talent and graduated to FBS. Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Western Kentucky, Boise State, Marshall, Troy, UMass, Liberty, UCF, North Texas, MTSU, etc.

The programs that used the model to their benefit and remained in FCS have flourished. If the teams above were still in FCS, the semi-finals might be neutral by now.

[katss07]

How about we go “Final Four” style. Pick 4 rotating sites for the natty. One site per region that gets to host once per four years. How about Providence Park in Portland (22,000), Toyota Stadium in Frisco (21,000), Mapfre Stadium in Columbus (20,000) and Orlando City Stadium in Orlando (25,000). After the quarterfinals, the 4 winners get the nest week off. After a “bye week”, all four go to the host city and play in the semis. Losers go home, winners get to stay and play in the natty the following Friday Night. I tried to pick sites that are near large programs that are competitive. Columbus is right between MVFC and CAA country. Portland is in the heart of the Big Sky. Frisco is between OVC, SLC and MVFC. Orlando is a popular vacation spot with nice weather. I think it would cut down on off time and would be good for the teams and communitys of the cities.

I think that the current playoff format works. If it were up to me, I would keep the playoffs as they are, 24 teams and only a neutral site at the national championship. But if they were to change it, I wouldn’t mind this. Just a thought.

[walliver]

For research purposes only, I suggest that NDSU, JMU, JSU, and SHSU be unseeded next year and we track attendance. It is one thing for Bison fans to attend 3 home games followed by a long trip, but how many will make multiple long trips for 5 weeks in a 6 week period? At some point, fans begin picking and choosing which games to attend, how many days to take off work, how many family events to blow off, etc.

[NoVABison]

For research purposes only, I suggest that NDSU, JMU, JSU, and SHSU be unseeded next year and we track attendance. It is one thing for Bison fans to attend 3 home games followed by a long trip, but how many will make multiple long trips for 5 weeks in a 6 week period? At some point, fans begin picking and choosing which games to attend, how many days to take off work, how many family events to blow off, etc.

Why would the NCAA want to do a research study? The top seeded teams earned them on the field during the regular season. Furthermore, the FCS Playoffs are funded through attendance at the games... and the NCAA is not interested in taking a loss. Teams like NDSU and JMU finance the playoffs through attendance at their playoff games. Making it tougher for customers (FCS playoff attendees) is just plain stupid.

If you don't like the FCS playoffs, drop down to D2 or D3.

[jmu007]

I can guarantee you I'm not traveling anywhere outside my normal bubble for away games regardless of it being semi-final. And I'd be willing to bet most other JMU fans wouldn't either. We've already been on the road in the playoffs plenty and outside of games in VA you're not getting anything close to 8K to a playoff game that isn't the championship game.

[NDSUtk]

I don't believe any of the visiting teams in the playoffs to Fargo have sold their allotment of 400-600 tickets. So no way a neutral semifinal works. If JMU fans (example) had to fly to Minneapolis to play NDSU, do you really think they bring 15x the fans they did to Fargo? No way in hell. It's not really any different to fly to a major airport as a regional in most cases. Sure you can do it a little cheaper, but saving $200 wouldn't result in some massive influx of people.

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[Bisonoline]

You wont get the attendance you think you will. Take NDSU for example. You think our fans are going to travel to a neutral site in mass and then expect the opposing team to travel there as well. Not one team that came to Fargo used all of their allotment. You think SHSU would of brought a large crowd to say Cedar Falls Ia for a game with us?
Then you expect people to cough up big travel costs again for the natty? Nope not happening for the majority of fans.

This would just make it harder on fans .

[penguinpower]

The real problem is that they domt pick the best teams because they let conference winners from substandard conferences into the playoff. i.e. Pioneer etc.

[Twentysix]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Jmu fans couldn't even attend their own playoff games in their ****ing home city (I think jmu has one of the strongest fan bases in the fcs). You think that they are going to travel somewhere else to play a semifinal??? These "nuetral site" games would be lucky to have 2000 in attendance.

If this was actually employed I seriously think some matchups would have like 250 people in attendance.

Ndsu/SDSU/usd vs uni/SDSU/usd in a semi in Minneapolis would probably struggle to get 15000. This is the most ridiculous idea imo.


On the other hand I think ndsu vs one of those three in a national championship hosted in Minneapolis could fill the Vikings stadium.

I would be genuinely surprised if NDSU brought less than 50,000 fans to a national championship game that was hosted in Minneapolis. Just not for a non-championship game and not anywhere but Minneapolis.


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[ST_Lawson]

On the other hand I think ndsu vs one of those three in a national championship hosted in Minneapolis could fill the Vikings stadium.

I would be genuinely surprised if NDSU brought less than 50,000 fans to a national championship game that was hosted in Minneapolis. Just not for a non-championship game and not anywhere but Minneapolis.

Yup. NDSU vs SDSU for the FCS championship at the Vikings stadium...that place would sell out pretty quick...all 70k seats.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yup. NDSU vs SDSU for the FCS championship at the Vikings stadium...that place would sell out pretty quick...all 70k seats.

Yet if you actually believe the poster you're responding to here, they incredibly believe that this exact same matchup as an FCS semifinal would only attract 137 fans.

Or the fans that say that because their visiting fan allotment wasn't sold to a semifinal game in Fargo, there's no way those same fans would make a trip to, say, Orlando for a semifinal.

[Twentysix]

Yet if you actually believe the poster you're responding to here, they incredibly believe that this exact same matchup as an FCS semifinal would only attract 137 fans.

Or the fans that say that because their visiting fan allotment wasn't sold to a semifinal game in Fargo, there's no way those same fans would make a trip to, say, Orlando for a semifinal.

Yes, I think a semi final that consists of Idaho state vs San diego in Orlando with one weeks notice would have 300 people in attendance. It's a completely moronic idea. Especially if it's a Friday game that people in San Diego and Pocatello have 4 business days to get off work and get flights and hotels.

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[Twentysix]

I'll even go as far as to say that the same scenario but shsu vs ndsu in Orlando would struggle to have 3000 fans in attendance.

A semi does not have the allure of a natty, and the time scale is an even bigger deal breaker.

Very few people have the money and job flexibility to travel across the US on short notice twice in 21 days (3 times if they travel home for the holidays, as so many of us do). You choose one and bank on the natty. This is intensified even more by teams with tiny fan bases (100+ fcs teams, i.e the vast majority of the fcs).

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[Twentysix]

LFN give me a your real projection of attendance for a semifinal in San Diego that consists of Colgate vs EWU. They can play the hypothetical game at soccer city.


http://www.soccercitysd.com/gallery/#&gid=null&pid=1

Proposed 30,000 seat stadium in SD.


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[Go...gate]

LFN give me a your real projection of attendance for a semifinal in San Diego that consists of Colgate vs EWU. They can play the hypothetical game at soccer city.

http://www.soccercitysd.com/gallery/#&gid=null&pid=1

Proposed 30,000 seat stadium in SD.

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Actually, Colgate fans (especially alumni) might travel quite well to such a game in a warm-weather location.

[Twentysix]

Actually, Colgate fans (especially alumni) might travel quite well to such a game in a warm-weather location.If you all learned about the semifinal game 7 days before it occurred (when you won your quarterfinal), how many Colgate fans do you think would travel? Looks like colgate is reporting less than 3000 in the seats at most home games. Do you think more Colgate fans would request off work with 7 days notice and travel across the country than would attend the game at your home stadium? Remember that winning the game means colgate would then play in the national championship 2-3 weeks later in yet a different nuetral site elsewhere in the US.

I'm still interested in lfn's estimate.

Edit: interesting factoid, Colgate reports*34,142*living alumni

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[NDSUtk]

Yet if you actually believe the poster you're responding to here, they incredibly believe that this exact same matchup as an FCS semifinal would only attract 137 fans.

Or the fans that say that because their visiting fan allotment wasn't sold to a semifinal game in Fargo, there's no way those same fans would make a trip to, say, Orlando for a semifinal.Yes, in Minneapolis there will be a large crowd because it is a 3.5 hour drive for each fan base. However, move that to Chattanooga or Orlando...plummets. The travel expense is real for people. Assume hotel and food and drink and tickets are equal regardless of location. It's the trip there that costs!

3.5 hour drive on 7 day notice: About 20 gallons of gas or $100 and call it 4 people per vehicle so $25 travel cost.

Flight to Orlando with less than 7 day notice: $762 per person currently
Flight to Chattanooga with less than 7 days notice: $742 per person currently

See why some people aren't going to jump at this? It's personal financials.

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[Gil Dobie]

Yes, in Minneapolis because it is a 3.5 hour drive for each fan base. However, move that to Chattanooga or Orlando...plummets. The travel expense is real for people. Assume hotel and food and drink and tickets are equal regardless of location. It's the trip there that costs!

3.5 hour drive on 7 day notice: About 20 gallons of gas or $100 and call it 4 people per vehicle so $25 travel cost.

Flight to Orlando with less than 7 day notice: $762 per person currently
Flight to Chattanooga with less than 7 days notice: $742 per person currently

See why some people aren't going to jump at this? It's personal financials.

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20 minute drive for me and 10,000 alums in the twin Cities. Already do the 3.5 hour drive for home games.

[TheKingpin28]

Yes, in Minneapolis because it is a 3.5 hour drive for each fan base. However, move that to Chattanooga or Orlando...plummets. The travel expense is real for people. Assume hotel and food and drink and tickets are equal regardless of location. It's the trip there that costs!

3.5 hour drive on 7 day notice: About 20 gallons of gas or $100 and call it 4 people per vehicle so $25 travel cost.

Flight to Orlando with less than 7 day notice: $762 per person currently
Flight to Chattanooga with less than 7 days notice: $742 per person currently

See why some people aren't going to jump at this? It's personal financials.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkI make that 3 hour drive 1x a month and it is no big deal. I would say the game against Butler at Target Field will be a similar result to the St. Thomas and St. John's in terms of attendance even if it is gimmicky.

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[walliver]

The NFL does not play semifinals (conference finals) at neutral sites. If they thought there was great intere$t, they would do it.
The only level of football that plays semifinals at neutral sites is the college football playoff and they get away with it be using established big-time New Year's Bowls.
I've watched a few of the lesser bowls so far, and the stadia are almost empty. I don't know what attendance the Dollar General Bowl advertised, but from what I saw on TV, it appears to be measured in the dozens. Unless the NCAA were lucky enough to have NDSU, JMU or JSU play at a neutral site close to home, the FCS semifinals will have the same attendance issues.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sold-out game, epic football, the Rose Bowl, CFP semifinals. You're trying to convince me that a neutral-site FCS semifinal wouldn't be able to deliver half of this? The NCAA is frankly missing out.

[Hammerhead]

The FBS semifinals also give fans more than a week to travel plans where many already have time off. Plus the top FBS teams have much larger canvases to draw from.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I make that 3 hour drive 1x a month and it is no big deal. I would say the game against Butler at Target Field will be a similar result to the St. Thomas and St. John's in terms of attendance even if it is gimmicky.

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NDSU's game will beat the Tommies/Johnnies attendance.

[Twentysix]

The FBS semifinals also give fans more than a week to travel plans where many already have time off. Plus the top FBS teams have much larger canvases to draw from.Wisconsin living alumni: ~450,000.
Colgate living alumni: ~34,000.

This doesn't even take into account that people who never went to Wisconsin are fans, but the same can't be said for colgate.


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[TheKingpin28]

NDSU's game will beat the Tommies/Johnnies attendance.

I will go just so I can see the Bison play, but to me, it is nothing "special" but another chance for me to see The Greatest Show on Turf in College Football.

[Panther88]

One thing is certain, I don’t think the fcs playoffs need the SWAC or MEAC to continue its current course lol :D .
———-top 5 attended HBCU games 2017———

1) Bayou Classic-New Orleans 66,650 (Grambling vs Southern U.)
2) Magic City Classic-Birmingham 61,221 (Alabama State vs Alabama A&M)
3) State Fair Classic-Dallas 55,231 (Grambling vs Prairie View A&M)
4) Florida Classic-Orlando 47,819 (Bethune Cookman vs Florida A&M)
5) Southern Heritage Classic-Nashville 47,407 (Jackson State vs Tennessee State)

[DoWe]

The NFL does not play semifinals (conference finals) at neutral sites. If they thought there was great intere$t, they would do it.
The only level of football that plays semifinals at neutral sites is the college football playoff and they get away with it be using established big-time New Year's Bowls.
I've watched a few of the lesser bowls so far, and the stadia are almost empty. I don't know what attendance the Dollar General Bowl advertised, but from what I saw on TV, it appears to be measured in the dozens. Unless the NCAA were lucky enough to have NDSU, JMU or JSU play at a neutral site close to home, the FCS semifinals will have the same attendance issues.

Dollar General Bowl 2017 (Toledo vs. App. State) - 1.77 million viewers, 28,706 tickets sold. Attendance, ?. Not sure how you would have discerned attendance at this or any lessor bowl. ESPN goes to extraordinary lengths not to show the empty seats, but maybe you have a special TV.

[neverobeyed]

20 minute drive for me and 10,000 alums in the twin Cities. Already do the 3.5 hour drive for home games.

Really? Only 10k? I live here and drive across the MPLS and STP daily to/from work, with the usual stops and I see NDSU hats/shirts/bumper stickers/flags every day. The reciprocity between Minnesota and the Dakota schools is working well for you and NDSU is kicking some serious tail in marketing the school here.

[Hammerhead]

10k is about right for the metro area unless you count the exurbs. http://www.ndsualumnicenter.com/alumniassociation/maps/national/webmap.htm click on Any state to see the number in each county.
Really? Only 10k? I live here and drive across the MPLS and STP daily to/from work, with the usual stops and I see NDSU hats/shirts/bumper stickers/flags every day. The reciprocity between Minnesota and the Dakota schools is working well for you and NDSU is kicking some serious tail in marketing the school here.

[DFW HOYA]

2017-18 bowl attendance with percentage of stadium capacity in parentheses:

Rose Bowl: 92,844 (sellout)
Sugar Bowl: 73,208 (sellout)
Peach Bowl: 71,109 (95%)
Texas Bowl: 67,820 (94%)
Cotton Bowl: 67,510 (67%)

Orange Bowl: 65,032 (99%)
Fiesta Bowl: 61,842 (85%)
Citrus Bowl: 57,726 (82%)
Alamo Bowl: 57,653 (88%)
Liberty Bowl: 57,266 (93%)

Music City Bowl: 48,675 (70%)
Holiday Bowl: 47,092 (66%)
Outback Bowl: 45,687 (69%)
Tax Slayer Bowl: 41,310 (61%)
Sun Bowl: 39,897 (78%)

Arizona Bowl: 39,132 (70%)
Camping World Bowl: 39,610 (57%)
Belk Bowl: 32,784 (44%)
Pinstripe Bowl: 37,667 (69%)
Las Vegas Bowl: 36,432 (91%)

Armed Forces Bowl: 35,986 (80%)
Military Bowl: 35,921 (sellout)
Independence Bowl: 33,601 (65%)
Cactus Bowl: 32,859 (67%)
Dollar General Bowl: 28,706 (70%)

Birmingham Bowl: 28,623 (40%)
Foster Farms Bowl: 28,436 (41%)
New Mexico Bowl: 26,087 (66%)
Boca Raton Bowl: 25,912 (88%)
New Orleans Bowl: 24,904 (32%)

Camellia Bowl: 20,612 (98%)
Hawaii Bowl: 20,546 (41%)
Heart of Dallas Bowl: 20,507 (22%)
Quick Lane Bowl: 20,211 (31%)
Cure Bowl: 19,585 (28%)

Famous Idaho Potato Bowl: 16,512 (45%)
Gasparilla Bowl: 16,363 (52%)
Frisco Bowl: 14,419 (70%)
Bahamas Bowl: 13,585 (90%)

[neverobeyed]

10k is about right for the metro area unless you count the exurbs. http://www.ndsualumnicenter.com/alumniassociation/maps/national/webmap.htm click on Any state to see the number in each county.

Honestly, would have expected more given how visible you folks are here.

Did some digging - and it really took more digging than I expected - and UNI had 5300+ alumni in Minnesota as of Fall 2016, the number two state for UNI (Iowa, as you may guess, was first with 71,000+; page 39 at https://ir.uni.edu/sites/default/files/2016_uni_factbook.pdf).

No breakdown by city, but a wagering fellow would bet heavily on the bulk being in the Twin Cities - hell, one lives next door to me and other around the corner. MSP has long been a target for UNI grads, degree in hand.

[walliver]

2017-18 bowl attendance with percentage of stadium capacity in parentheses:

Rose Bowl: 92,844 (sellout)
Sugar Bowl: 73,208 (sellout)
Peach Bowl: 71,109 (95%)
Texas Bowl: 67,820 (94%)
Cotton Bowl: 67,510 (67%)

...
I wonder how many games towards the bottom of the list included tickets bought by local businesses and other supporters that weren't actually used.
Unless a lot of fans came disguised as empty seats, many of those numbers are quite suspect.
There are significant challenges for many of the lesser bowls, which are frequently played on weeknights, not weekends.

[Gil Dobie]

The real problem with the playoffs, is that the NCAA Programs SUCK. $8 for a magazine with team photos and roster, BFD. Just use to the classy Bison Game Day programs I guess, and only $5.

[Go Green]

I wonder how many games towards the bottom of the list included tickets bought by local businesses and other supporters that weren't actually used.
.

Can't speak for the others. But I've been to a few Rose Bowl games. Every one was packed to the gills.

My understanding is that the Rose Bowl has not sold out only a handful of times in its history.

[gsf23nd]

With a lot of the bowl games on those list, that might have been the number of tickets sold, but that's not the number of people that actually showed up.

[ASU33]

Look no further than this week. Two team who have combined for 6 of the last 7 titles are meeting on the field and nobody knows about it. There's zero hype surrounding this game. I've been in McKinney, Texas since the 26th and there's zero mention of the FCS title game. That blows!

[Gil Dobie]

There's been a lot of talk on Twin Cities radio about the championship. Lot of local Minnesota kids on the team. Klieman has been on local radio shows.

[Panther88]

Look no further than this week. Two team who have combined for 6 of the last 7 titles are meeting on the field and nobody knows about it. There's zero hype surrounding this game. I've been in McKinney, Texas since the 26th and there's zero mention of the FCS title game. That blows!

The dfw metroplex, itself, is NOT an fcs destination. Unless you're a cowboy, maverick, star, longhorn, boomer sooner, corn husker, jayhawk, razor neck, wildcat, bengal tiger, Prairie View A&M Panther supporter, or Grambling State University tiger supporter, your fcs school simply doesn't exist via the dfw media market. The houston area media market only supported the FBS championship game pitting uga vs bama. Otherwise, football crickets sans nfl related.

We (PVAMU vs GSU) did 55K in dallas a few months back. Dissect it as one may, you cannot ever and will not replicate it.

[Gil Dobie]

The dfw metroplex, itself, is NOT an fcs destination. Unless you're a cowboy, maverick, star, longhorn, boomer sooner, corn husker, jayhawk, razor neck, wildcat, bengal tiger, Prairie View A&M Panther supporter, or Grambling State University tiger supporter, your fcs school simply doesn't exist via the dfw media market. The houston area media market only supported the FBS championship game pitting uga vs bama. Otherwise, football crickets sans nfl related.

We (PVAMU vs GSU) did 55K in dallas a few months back. Dissect it as one may, you cannot ever and will not replicate it.

If NDSU played a Dakota team or a close MVFC team, in Minneapolis, for the FCS title, it could happen.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The layoff for the FCS game is too long. This weekend is all about building up college basketball for ESPN. They'll be 100% all in on the NBA and college hoops by 6 AM next Tuesday. It started last night with their first Super Tuesday of the year and a lot of focus on the Kansas-Texas Tech game and Thomas's return with the Cavs.

I think the title game should be between Christmas and New Year's. Families/kids have off from school and that's traditional bowl/football watching time. Put the title game on the 28th so Christmas and NYE don't conflict too much and be done with it. It would be a great lead in for the Alamo Bowl or another quality second tier bowl.

My ultimate preference is still a single site championship venue for FCS, D2 and D3. Weekend long celebration/party....

[POD Knows]

The layoff for the FCS game is too long. This weekend is all about building up college basketball for ESPN. They'll be 100% all in on the NBA and college hoops by 6 AM next Tuesday. It started last night with their first Super Tuesday of the year and a lot of focus on the Kansas-Texas Tech game and Thomas's return with the Cavs.

I think the title game should be between Christmas and New Year's. Families/kids have off from school and that's traditional bowl/football watching time. Put the title game on the 28th so Christmas and NYE don't conflict too much and be done with it. It would be a great lead in for the Alamo Bowl or another quality second tier bowl.

My ultimate preference is still a single site championship venue for FCS, D2 and D3. Weekend long celebration/party....That would be cool and I would probably go to all of the games.

[Panther88]

If NDSU played a Dakota team or a close MVFC team, in Minneapolis, for the FCS title, it could happen.

I agree, if it’s there. But in tejas, for the most part, fcs gets no support or love from the greater local masses.

[Hammerhead]

That's an interesting idea. Team walkthroughs in the stadium might need to be a day or two in advance and you would probably want artificial turf if 3 games are played on the same day. The end zone would look like the old Dacotah Field at NDSU where schools played their games so there were 3 high school logos in one end zone.




The layoff for the FCS game is too long. This weekend is all about building up college basketball for ESPN. They'll be 100% all in on the NBA and college hoops by 6 AM next Tuesday. It started last night with their first Super Tuesday of the year and a lot of focus on the Kansas-Texas Tech game and Thomas's return with the Cavs.

I think the title game should be between Christmas and New Year's. Families/kids have off from school and that's traditional bowl/football watching time. Put the title game on the 28th so Christmas and NYE don't conflict too much and be done with it. It would be a great lead in for the Alamo Bowl or another quality second tier bowl.

My ultimate preference is still a single site championship venue for FCS, D2 and D3. Weekend long celebration/party....

[ST_Lawson]

That would be cool and I would probably go to all of the games.

Now that's a solid idea. Do a Friday night game, Saturday early afternoon game, and a Saturday late afternoon game. For most people who get weekends off, if you're flying to it, that's only 1 day off work and two nights in a hotel for three real high-quality football games. I think that'd bring in quite a few people to all the games and for the ones that might not sell out (like...years down the road when either NDSU or JMU isn't in it), you'll get some crossover from DIII and DII fans sticking around for the games.

[Gil Dobie]

Would need a large tailgate area for 6 teams and a weekend whale of a tailgate

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Would need a large tailgate area for 6 teams and a weekend whale of a tailgate

I've also said this before, start in Indianapolis (home of the NCAA) for 3 years, work out the kinks, then move on perhaps. They know how to put on major events as well as any city in the country. I think the attendance/fan "enjoyability" would be similar to a Final 4 15-20 years ago.

[neverobeyed]

The layoff for the FCS game is too long. This weekend is all about building up college basketball for ESPN. They'll be 100% all in on the NBA and college hoops by 6 AM next Tuesday. It started last night with their first Super Tuesday of the year and a lot of focus on the Kansas-Texas Tech game and Thomas's return with the Cavs.

I think the title game should be between Christmas and New Year's. Families/kids have off from school and that's traditional bowl/football watching time. Put the title game on the 28th so Christmas and NYE don't conflict too much and be done with it. It would be a great lead in for the Alamo Bowl or another quality second tier bowl.

My ultimate preference is still a single site championship venue for FCS, D2 and D3. Weekend long celebration/party....

That is a great idea. Solid points about the long layoff and timing for the game.

[Derby City Duke]

I know the NCAA groups its D2 championships into sports festivals at a single location for spring and for fall. For instance Spring 2016 was Men's/Women's golf, softball, women's lacrosse, and men's women's tennis and were in Denver. The Winter 2017 were in Birmingham.

This year, University of Louisville hosted the D1 Field Hockey Final Four and the D2 and D3 Field Hockey championship matches over the weekend prior to Thanksgiving.

There is precedent to this and sounds like a good idea -- needs a turf field and as long as everybody knows and accepts the end zones and color schemes will probably be generic, we'll be good.

[neverobeyed]

Would need a large tailgate area for 6 teams and a weekend whale of a tailgate

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