Ivy League rules experiment for '16

[kdinva]

http://coachingsearch.com/article?a=The-Ivy-League-will-move-kickoffs-up-to-the-40yard-line

[NY Crusader 2010]

I didn't even know this was allowed - making rule changes at the conference level while still being under the NCAA Division I umbrella. So the Ivy League, could technically say they want to do away with the shot clock during conference basketball games too?

[Son of Eli]

I didn't even know this was allowed - making rule changes at the conference level while still being under the NCAA Division I umbrella. So the Ivy League, could technically say they want to do away with the shot clock during conference basketball games too?


My understanding is that they needed NCAA permission to make this rule change. Kickers in the Ivy League aren't very good. Kicking off from the 40 in the Ivy League is the equivlant of kicking off from the 35 at the NFL or Power 5 level.

[NY Crusader 2010]

My understanding is that they needed NCAA permission to make this rule change. Kickers in the Ivy League aren't very good. Kicking off from the 40 in the Ivy League is the equivlant of kicking off from the 35 at the NFL or Power 5 level.

It's actually funny to think that a few years ago college kickers actually kicked off from further than in the NFL. We were at the 30 for a year or two after they moved it back up to the 35. I actually remember when college moved the kickoff BACK to the 30 from the 35 in the late 90s. And in the 80s it was moved from the 40 to the 35.

[bonarae]

Yikes. 40 yard line? How horrible are our kickers compared to the rest of the FCS? Please provide insight on your team's or your conference's kickers... xchinscratchx

[Son of Eli]

Yikes. 40 yard line? How horrible are our kickers compared to the rest of the FCS? Please provide insight on your team's or your conference's kickers... xchinscratchx


The purpose of the rule is to reduce concussions. Studies show that 28% of all concussion injuries occur on kickoffs, making it the most dangerous aspect of the game. I'm hoping that if the Ivy League can reduce concussions by 28% they can increase their scheduled games by 10%.

[Go Green]

Yikes. 40 yard line? How horrible are our kickers compared to the rest of the FCS? Please provide insight on your team's or your conference's kickers... xchinscratchx

Dartmouth's kickers are pretty good off the tee. Most of our guys can boot it to the end zone or inside the five (which I assume is what the coaches tell them to do).

PATs and FGs are another story. At best, they're ok. They've come up short in big games in recent years. :(

[Anthony215]

It'll be interesting to see what the change of kickoff placement does for the statistics relating to concussions. If this experiment is successful I wonder if the NCAA will make this a new rule for all 4 divisions to decrease their liability in future concussion lawsuits.

[kdinva]

I didn't even know this was allowed - making rule changes at the conference level....

in 1979-80, the NCAA let the SoCon experiment with the (1st) three point shot line in SoCon games.....

[TheValleyRaider]

On the individual conference rules question, I think that's the way it's always done. The NCAA has rules which apply to tournament games, but each conference can make its own. The rules aren't usually that different, but they can be.

Look at hockey, where the Big 10 has shootouts (like the NHL), while other conferences still allow ties. If I remember correctly, there was a time when Big East basketball gave teams an additional timeout (or something similar)

[Son of Eli]

Dartmouth's kickers are pretty good off the tee. Most of our guys can boot it to the end zone or inside the five (which I assume is what the coaches tell them to do).

PATs and FGs are another story. At best, they're ok. They've come up short in big games in recent years. :(

when they can find a tee.

[CasualFan]

If I remember correctly, there was a time when Big East basketball gave teams an additional timeout (or something similar)
The Big East used to have one extra foul.

[TheValleyRaider]

The Big East used to have one extra foul.

That was it. Thanks xthumbsupx

[Go Green]

when they can find a tee.

Yep! I'll have to look back and see how they did with the water bottle. :)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/10/17/dartmouth-yale-water-bottle-kicking-tee/1638199/

I tried to give you reputation recs, but they say I have to spread it around before giving it to you again. :)

[walliver]

As much as I find it exciting, I don't think the kickoff will be with us for long. Most teams will just go for the touchback and put the ball on the 20. A few teams with good kickers, will try high shorter kicks and pin the offense down even further back. If the number on onsides kicks goes up, injuries may go up.

On the other hand, I see no way of eliminating kickoffs without eliminating onsides kicks, and getting rid of them would be a real game-changer.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I think it's entirely appropriate that this next step in pussification comes from the Ivy's. It's embarrassing and how far Left and Soft our so-called elite academic institutions have become. They are Elitist in being so far removed from the culture of the 70% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck that they are absolutely positive that they know what's best for everyone else.

How can these people worry so much about brain damage from football concussions and nicotine and support increased cannabis use and ignore the physician-caused Opioid epidemic? The real solution to football concussions is to REDUCE the cushioning in the equipment. Maybe players will go back to tackling instead of hurling their bodies around.

[Bisonoline]

I think it's entirely appropriate that this next step in pussification comes from the Ivy's. It's embarrassing and how far Left and Soft our so-called elite academic institutions have become. They are Elitist in being so far removed from the culture of the 70% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck that they are absolutely positive that they know what's best for everyone else.

How can these people worry so much about brain damage from football concussions and nicotine and support increased cannabis use and ignore the physician-caused Opioid epidemic? The real solution to football concussions is to REDUCE the cushioning in the equipment. Maybe players will go back to tackling instead of hurling their bodies around.

Equipment isnt the problem.. You have to change tackling technique.

[Twentysix]

I think it's entirely appropriate that this next step in pussification comes from the Ivy's. It's embarrassing and how far Left and Soft our so-called elite academic institutions have become. They are Elitist in being so far removed from the culture of the 70% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck that they are absolutely positive that they know what's best for everyone else.

How can these people worry so much about brain damage from football concussions and nicotine and support increased cannabis use and ignore the physician-caused Opioid epidemic? The real solution to football concussions is to REDUCE the cushioning in the equipment. Maybe players will go back to tackling instead of hurling their bodies around.

Take it to the politician board.

[Lehigh'98]

I think it's entirely appropriate that this next step in pussification comes from the Ivy's. It's embarrassing and how far Left and Soft our so-called elite academic institutions have become. They are Elitist in being so far removed from the culture of the 70% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck that they are absolutely positive that they know what's best for everyone else.

How can these people worry so much about brain damage from football concussions and nicotine and support increased cannabis use and ignore the physician-caused Opioid epidemic? The real solution to football concussions is to REDUCE the cushioning in the equipment. Maybe players will go back to tackling instead of hurling their bodies around.

Football should consider any tools at their disposal to reduce concussion risks. Its a threat to the future viability of the sport. If that means we reduce kickoff returns, so be it. Better to have the game we all love minus a few kickoffs vs no game at all. I'd hate to have to start following the EPL as closely as I do football because it doesnt exist.

[OhioHen]

Equipment isnt the problem.. You have to change tackling technique.

The quality of tackling technique continues to decline as the helmet technology makes it safer and safer to use the head as a weapon. Rugby players wear little of no headgear and the incidence of head trauma is (anecdotally) much lower because they are FORCED to tackle without their heads being a weapon.

[Bisonoline]

The quality of tackling technique continues to decline as the helmet technology makes it safer and safer to use the head as a weapon. Rugby players wear little of no headgear and the incidence of head trauma is (anecdotally) much lower because they are FORCED to tackle without their heads being a weapon.

The new rules on targeting has all but taken using the helmet as a weapon out of the game. Teach to tackle to NOT put the head in front of the runner like rugby. The conventional wisdom at the time was to put your head in front of the runner to stop forward progress. You also teach the kids now to slide the head to the side and shoulder tackle like I was taught. In the early 70s they started the "stick your face in the numbers" technique. That change had nothing to do with safer helmets as the suspension helmet was still in wide use at the time. Then you had the blow up tackle come in to vogue as it was cool and again had nothing to do with helmet design.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

The new rules on targeting has all but taken using the helmet as a weapon out of the game. Teach to tackle to NOT put the head in front of the runner like rugby. The conventional wisdom at the time was to put your head in front of the runner to stop forward progress. You also teach the kids now to slide the head to the side and shoulder tackle like I was taught. In the early 70s they started the "stick your face in the numbers" technique. That change had nothing to do with safer helmets as the suspension helmet was still in wide use at the time. Then you had the blow up tackle come in to vogue as it was cool and again had nothing to do with helmet design.

Something I loved watching the Bison was their excellent tackling. The concept of using angles and wrapping up gave way to hurling a shoulder at the knees while turning the head and the "facemask in the numbers" technique. Somewhere in the 90's, the super athletic specimen began to replace football players in the sport
. That, along with rules changes to advantage quarterbacks and receivers have turned the sport mostly into flag football. Passing over the middle was always open IF the receiver was willing to pay - and hold on to the ball. I accept that I'm in the minority, but I prefer the style of football played pre-1990.

[Go Green]

. Somewhere in the 90's, the super athletic specimen began to replace football players in the sport
.

That's about the same time when kids started "specializing" in one sport and one sport only (or at least when they came of age). Generations past, boys would play football in fall, basketball/hockey in winter, and baseball/lacrosse in spring. Around the 1990s, it was rare enough to find a kid playing two sports, let alone three.

When kids are training for football year-round, it's not surprising to find that they are better than their predecessors of yesteryear.

[PAllen]

Something I loved watching the Bison was their excellent tackling. The concept of using angles and wrapping up gave way to hurling a shoulder at the knees while turning the head and the "facemask in the numbers" technique. Somewhere in the 90's, the super athletic specimen began to replace football players in the sport
. That, along with rules changes to advantage quarterbacks and receivers have turned the sport mostly into flag football. Passing over the middle was always open IF the receiver was willing to pay - and hold on to the ball. I accept that I'm in the minority, but I prefer the style of football played pre-1990.

Absolutely. I haven't even watched an NFL game in two years for just those reasons. Last fall, I watched a couple of replays of '85 Bears games on Youtube. I realized I was getting a lot more enjoyment out of the game than I would any game today, even though I knew who was going to win. Then during the second game, I began to realize all of the things that would be a 15 yard penalty today. At least 1/4 of the plays would be flagged today, and shockingly, nobody got knocked out, nobody got injured. It's flag football for fantasy football stats (which are all offense). I've joked many a time that the NFL is one step away from making an incomplete pass a 15 yd penalty on the defense.

[Go Green]

At least 1/4 of the plays would be flagged today, and shockingly, nobody got knocked out, nobody got injured. .

Maybe not on the particular games you watched.

But I think it's pretty clear that injuries did result on some of the stuff that has since been outlawed (defenseless receiver, horse collar tackles, etc.).

I'd imagine that some of our grandfathers expressed similar sentiments when the flying wedge was made illegal as well. :)

[Lehigh'98]

Absolutely. I haven't even watched an NFL game in two years for just those reasons. Last fall, I watched a couple of replays of '85 Bears games on Youtube. I realized I was getting a lot more enjoyment out of the game than I would any game today, even though I knew who was going to win. Then during the second game, I began to realize all of the things that would be a 15 yard penalty today. At least 1/4 of the plays would be flagged today, and shockingly, nobody got knocked out, nobody got injured. It's flag football for fantasy football stats (which are all offense). I've joked many a time that the NFL is one step away from making an incomplete pass a 15 yd penalty on the defense.

I remember Montana getting destroyed a few times. Mostly from the Giants. Knocked out cold. The 85 Bears also almost killed a few QB's

[PAllen]

Maybe not on the particular games you watched.

But I think it's pretty clear that injuries did result on some of the stuff that has since been outlawed (defenseless receiver, horse collar tackles, etc.).

I'd imagine that some of our grandfathers expressed similar sentiments when the flying wedge was made illegal as well. :)

Could be, but my take is that it was the Sportscenter effect that caused the dramatic increase in injuries. Prior to the last few years with everything being outlawed, when was the last time you saw spearing called? Most of the rule changes over the last 15 years have been to promote passing and offense as these are the two main drivers for fantasy football stats. Fantasy football has been credited with bringing a huge ratings boost to the NFL by bringing in more female viewers. Thus, the NFL has made rules changes that promote fantasy football. You will never see another 7-3 grind it out hard hitting defensive game again in the NFL. To each his own.

[Thumper 76]

As much as I find it exciting, I don't think the kickoff will be with us for long. Most teams will just go for the touchback and put the ball on the 20. A few teams with good kickers, will try high shorter kicks and pin the offense down even further back. If the number on onsides kicks goes up, injuries may go up.

On the other hand, I see no way of eliminating kickoffs without eliminating onsides kicks, and getting rid of them would be a real game-changer.

If they eliminate on side kicks you need to make it so a team has some form of a chance at the end to get the ball back I would hope. Eliminating taking a knee perhaps?


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[The Eagle's Cliff]

Offensive linemen in the late 60s and most of the 70s in the SEC were 180-220 lbs. It's great that athletes have all the extra training nowadays but there's something more...pure? about guys competing just with what God gave them.

[WestCoastAggie]

As dangerous as a kickoff can be, it can be an exciting point in a game. It will be interesting to see when Ivy League KO returners attempt to return kicks from deep in the end zone during games. This move could result in more KO returns for touchdowns because the kicking team being lulled to sleep by the return team constantly getting touchbacks.

[Go Green]

It will be interesting to see when Ivy League KO returners attempt to return kicks from deep in the end zone during games.

My guess is that a guy who attempts to return a kick from deep in his end zone would either be yelled at or benched by the coaches (and probably both).

But we will see...

[JayJ79]

My guess is that a guy who attempts to return a kick from deep in his end zone would either be yelled at or benched by the coaches (and probably both).

But we will see...

not really relevant to the Ivy, but I'm gonna post this here anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT8ghcz4Eh0

[clenz]

The quality of tackling technique continues to decline as the helmet technology makes it safer and safer to use the head as a weapon. Rugby players wear little of no headgear and the incidence of head trauma is (anecdotally) much lower because they are FORCED to tackle without their heads being a weapon.

That's....not really true. Rugby is facing growing pressure for research because some numbers are starting to leak and it's ugly

[dgtw]

On a side note, Olympic boxers will no longer wear headgear.


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