Wichita State Football Study Released

[DFW HOYA]

Can the Wheatshockers be on the field by 2019? Either way, it starts with this report.

http://webs.wichita.edu/depttools/depttoolsmemberfiles/wsunews/wsu_football_report_css_2016.pdf

[clenz]

Not gonna happen.

For a while I thought it might.

I can't see it happening right now.

Keep in mind that the $50m in facilities they estimated is a low side estimate. No way in hell they completely redo Cessna stadium for 21M....not a chance.

http://www.stadiumsusa.com/images/thumbs/69d1009fb5250bbcdfbf002ccaaf46ecd0d1474d.jpg-590x1000.png


If WSU is going to do it they are going to do it big to try to fulfill their "We are a B12 team" fantasy. Their fan base won't "settle" for FCS. They can't be reasoned with for the competition level of FCS vs FBS. Nothing. Delusions of grandeur at it's finest.

Plus the yearly totals for running a program.

They have big donors, but I don'tthink they have enough to fund football the way they'd want and not impact basketball.

Kicker is without football they aren't going anywhere with their basketball program.

It's a nose/face situation.

[mmiller_34]

Pretty clear that they are only interested in FBS. When you go through the report there is a whole section that measures WSU's current athletic measurables against other conferences (either in the 25th, 50th, or 75th percentile) -- except, the only conferences that they compare themselves to are the Group of 5 conferences.

[Smitty]

I would hesitate on any athletic decisions that John Bardo makes as president. We are still recovering from his bad decisions while he was in charge at Western (academic decisions were decent).

[DFW HOYA]

The problem with studies like this is that they always sell the I-A/FBS option and regularly misstate the costs. That approach cost George Mason a program 15 years ago by one vote of its trustees and they've never recovered.

GMU could have become what Old Dominion is today. Instead, they've got this:

http://gmuclubfootball.gmu.edu/

[REALBird]

Damn. Never thought of the Title IX implications. Not only are you funding a sport from the ground up, but maybe taking the axe to some Men's sports just to stay compliant, or adding to an expanding sports budget by creating new women's sports teams. I think WSU already participates in every existing Men's/Women's sport except football. They'd need to find a home for those women's sports as well it would seem.

[clenz]

Damn. Never thought of the Title IX implications. Not only are you funding a sport from the ground up, but maybe taking the axe to some Men's sports just to stay compliant, or adding to an expanding sports budget by creating new women's sports teams. I think WSU already participates in every existing Men's/Women's sport except football. They'd need to find a home for those women's sports as well it would seem.
Yup.

They are also already FCOA in all sports. Football adds 85 more FCOA stipends, plus womens stipends.

It's a big jump from FCS to FBS in many ways.

It's crazy to look at numbers for a complete start up and think "Yeah, NBD"

[Catamount87]

John Bardo, yep the great supporter of football and all things athletic. xflaggedx

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Women's rowing(88 schools), women's lacrosse (103) and women's soccer (327) all are Title IX counters on many campuses, often not having comparable men's varsity programs. They offset sports like football and wrestling, as well as providing opportunities caused by higher female enrollment. (Georgia Southern famously has had a high female-to-male ratio, and has four/five more women's varsity sports to show for it.) Title IX worries about participation, scholarship and facilities.

Rowing can be a quick answer for a chunk of the gap. Rowing in D1 has an average of 67 women on their rosters, with a maximum of 20 scholarships. At Bucknell, women's rowing can be over 100 women, many, if not most of whom did not row in high school, on a campus of 3500 students. Facilities are an investment any of these sports, and rowing has its own set of needs, but lots of schools, big and small, manage it. The schedule can be both Fall and Spring and looks more like a track & field, swimming, or cross-country schedule, with massive invitational events and smaller multi-school events, and a single conference championship. Championships are in the Spring. Travel squads are smaller. Some training is on the water, but a lot is done in ERG facilities.

The Shockers currently list only 13 varsity sports, one under the D1 minimum. MVC has a women's soccer championship. Women's soccer rosters can have 25+ players and 14 scholarships. WSU also has club rowing and club bowling that might be elevated to varsity. It would likely take a combination of sports to satisfy both the scholarship and participation standards for Title IX. They also have slightly more women than men in the undergraduate student body (53%/47%), something that might tweak the numbers if they add football with 63 or 85 male scholarships.

[Hammersmith]

The Shockers currently list only 13 varsity sports, one under the D1 minimum. MVC has a women's soccer championship. Women's soccer rosters can have 25+ players and 14 scholarships. WSU also has club rowing and club bowling that might be elevated to varsity. It would likely take a combination of sports to satisfy both the scholarship and participation standards for Title IX. They also have slightly more women than men in the undergraduate student body (53%/47%), something that might tweak the numbers if they add football with 63 or 85 male scholarships.

For the record, they currently have 15 sports. Track & field each count as two, indoor and outdoor. The FBS minimum is 16 sports, so if they wanted to cut a men's sport to help with Title IX after adding football, they would have to add a women's sport to continue to maintain 16 total. A school has to maintain at least six men's sports(including two team sports). With football, WSU would have eight men's sports(including three team), so WSU could drop up to two men's sports and still remain compliant with FBS rules as long as they added two women's sports to stay at 16 total.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

For the record, they currently have 15 sports. Track & field each count as two, indoor and outdoor.

My bad

They will still need to accommodate 85+ new women's varsity positions.

[REALBird]

For the record, they currently have 15 sports. Track & field each count as two, indoor and outdoor. The FBS minimum is 16 sports, so if they wanted to cut a men's sport to help with Title IX after adding football, they would have to add a women's sport to continue to maintain 16 total. A school has to maintain at least six men's sports(including two team sports). With football, WSU would have eight men's sports(including three team), so WSU could drop up to two men's sports and still remain compliant with FBS rules as long as they added two women's sports to stay at 16 total.

Which is interesting. I looked at Illinois State for comparison where we host both Men's and Women's T&F, but also Men's and Women's X-Country. The grey area is that your Cross Country runners make up the same distance runners for T&F. It's all fuzzy math to say the least.

Illinois State has three more women's sports than Men's sports, but gives out a full 25 Soccer scholarships, as well as a crap load of Swimming and Diving scholarships. By my estimates if they wanted to go FCS in football, the difference would be about 20-25 scholarships. The reduction of one Men's sport or more likely the resurrection of a Women's sport like Bowling, or spin up of Women's Lacrosse.

Glad we're not looking into this at this time, but it appears WSU has a much steeper hill to climb.

[catamount man]

I would hesitate on any athletic decisions that John Bardo makes as president. We are still recovering from his bad decisions while he was in charge at Western (academic decisions were decent).

Preach it brother! GO CATS!!!

[Laker]

Latest rumor- Wichita State looking at AAC for basketball only.

http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/sources-wichita-state-emerges-potential-basketball-addition-aac/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wouldn't the Big East be a better destination for the Shockers in this case? Who has also been chasing the Shockers as well. If they joined the AAC, the pressure they'd have to add football would be immense, whereas if they joined the Big East they could either 1) ignore request or 2) ramp up football much slower, with, for example, an FCS team.

[Sycamore62]

Wouldn't the Big East be a better destination for the Shockers in this case? Who has also been chasing the Shockers as well. If they joined the AAC, the pressure they'd have to add football would be immense, whereas if they joined the Big East they could either 1) ignore request or 2) ramp up football much slower, with, for example, an FCS team.
I thought the Big East was all private catholic schools

[Laker]

I thought the Big East was all private catholic schools

Not Butler.

[Sycamore62]

Not Butler.
Still private though

[Shockerman]

The AAC would be a grand slam and the best possible ending spot for us. You have to remember that we are also a huge baseball school. Playing against the Florida schools, Houston, ECU, Tulane, etc would be enormous for the program. We are paying our basketball coach 3 million dollars and fit the mold of an AAC school. Our biggest and traditional rival is Tulsa, 2 hours to the South. The under the table talk is that we would also drop the "State" in our name to rebrand for the AAC and will restart football.

Not saying it's going to happen and I love FCS football, but I don't think any school, including all of the FCS and 95% of G5 pass up an invite from the AAC.

[BisonBacker]

The AAC would be a grand slam and the best possible ending spot for us. You have to remember that we are also a huge baseball school. Playing against the Florida schools, Houston, ECU, Tulane, etc would be enormous for the program. We are paying our basketball coach 3 million dollars and fit the mold of an AAC school. Our biggest and traditional rival is Tulsa, 2 hours to the South. The under the table talk is that we would also drop the "State" in our name to rebrand for the AAC and will restart football.

Not saying it's going to happen and I love FCS football, but I don't think any school, including all of the FCS and 95% of G5 pass up an invite from the AAC.

Which you won't be getting.

[Laker]

Still private though

Certainly. But not Catholic.

[superman7515]

Not saying it's going to happen and I love FCS football, but I don't think any school, including all of the FCS and 95% of G5 pass up an invite from the AAC.

Holy Cross would.

[Laker]

The under the table talk is that we would also drop the "State" in our name to rebrand for the AAC and will restart football.

Wouldn't they have to get permission from the legislature for that name change?

[UAalum72]

Wouldn't they have to get permission from the legislature for that name change?
Probably not if it's just the athletic department rebranding itself,like UConn or "Army West Point"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The AAC would be a grand slam and the best possible ending spot for us. You have to remember that we are also a huge baseball school. Playing against the Florida schools, Houston, ECU, Tulane, etc would be enormous for the program. We are paying our basketball coach 3 million dollars and fit the mold of an AAC school. Our biggest and traditional rival is Tulsa, 2 hours to the South. The under the table talk is that we would also drop the "State" in our name to rebrand for the AAC and will restart football.

Not saying it's going to happen and I love FCS football, but I don't think any school, including all of the FCS and 95% of G5 pass up an invite from the AAC.

All of this might be great, however, the quoted article says:


Wichita State has emerged as a potential basketball-only addition to the American Athletic Conference, but obstacles are still standing in the way of a potential marriage, multiple sources told FanRag Sports.


Four separate sources told FanRag Sports that the Shockers were brought up as a potential basketball-only member at the latest league meetings.

And:


“Adding the Wichita State brand to a league that already has UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, Memphis, Houston and SMU would make that a four-to-five bid conference,” one coach told FanRag Sports. “It’s a no-brainer for the American.”


This is the polar opposite of starting an AAC football program and even "rebranding" to Wichita State. The anonymous sources are calling this a possible basketball-only move and one specifically to associate the Wichita State brand to the AAC.

Not that I have a problem with Wichita State in the AAC, or starting FBS football for that matter. If Wichita State wants FBS football, and good hoops, and that aforementioned baseball conference, the AAC is a logical choice. However, the arrangement that is being floated as a hoops-only deal, that sounds way more amenable to the Big East.

[Laker]

Probably not if it's just the athletic department rebranding itself,like UConn or "Army West Point"

Anyone know why they went to that? Navy didn't add Annapolis. Air Force didn't add Colorado Springs. Coast Guard didn't add New London.

[Model Citizen]

"Basketball-only"? Surely the rag has its facts wrong. "Everything but football" is what I think they are discussing. That would make Wichita State a compliment to Navy (football-only member) in the AAC. I don't think anyone is going to leave the Olympic sports hanging.

Don't think Wichita State will start football if they can get into the AAC without it.

[Model Citizen]

Wichita, Cincinnati, Houston, Tulsa, Memphis...

Sherman, have you been playing with the Missouri Valley Wayback Machine?

[aceinthehole]

Can anyone recall any examples since the late 1980s when a D-I school had a "basketball only" affiliate membership in a conference?

I don't see any way that they will get an offer from the AAC (or approval from the MVC) to put M/W Basketball in the American while keeping all remaining sports in the Valley.

So why does anyone think this is a realistic possibility when there is no precedent for this type of arraignment in college sports for the last 30 years?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If Wichita State could become an all sports member of the AAC I'd love it. I still don't see it happening but there's some plausibility to it....

The AAC needs to do something to boost basketball. The Shockers would be a great addition....

[clenz]

"Basketball-only"? Surely the rag has its facts wrong. "Everything but football" is what I think they are discussing. That would make Wichita State a compliment to Navy (football-only member) in the AAC. I don't think anyone is going to leave the Olympic sports hanging.

Don't think Wichita State will start football if they can get into the AAC without it.
"Basketball only" is the common phrasing for everything but football. It's simply easier to say "basketball only" as opposed to "everything but football".

The MVC would never let WSU keep everything else in the Valley. There is growing dislike between the two. There is growing dissent between UNI and the MVC, though it is in the earlier stages, because of the apparent unwillingness to make moves to secure the future of the conference.

I have no confidence in the Valley to make the right move should WSU leave. At this point the right move would be adding NDSU, SDSU and then Valpo. Say screw the perfect rotation of having 10 conference members. That won't happen though. Adding Loyola to replace Creighton is all the proof I need. They will add one and it will be someone like UW-Milwaukee, UM-KC (bandied about after Creighton left), SIU-Edwardsville, or some slap **** school like that.

If WSU leaves I pray UNI can package their way in with WSU to wherever they go (won't happen) or can find a new home like the MAC. The MAC with UNI is better than the Valley without WSU.

[FargoBison]

UMKC? They would make the Loyola addition look like Duke.

[dgtw]

Getting in the AAC would give them a free pass to the FBS if they ever revive football.


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