Say goodbye to Regionalization

[IBleedYellow]

Well...sort of.


"Missouri Valley Football Conference commissioner Patty Viverito said the policy would only go into effect if at least four teams from one conference make the 24-team field."


http://www.inforum.com/sports/4048426-committee-approval-major-step-fcs-playoffs-avoiding-regional-matchups#.V1WMTKtvqDA.twitter

[Libertine]

the policy would only go into effect if at least four teams from one conference make the 24-team field."

So...it's going into effect then.

[JSUSoutherner]

So...it's going into effect then.
From what I gathered it still won't be official until it's approved in October. But yeah, if the committee approves it expect to see an MVFC team or two on the East side of the bracket.

[IBleedYellow]

I'm actually sort of annoyed by this.

It's only going to benefit the "good" conferences. But at the same time - one can argue they earned it.

Not really sure yet. I'd rather see a true de-regionalization, but this is a step in the right direction.

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm actually sort of annoyed by this.

It's only going to benefit the "good" conferences. But at the same time - one can argue they earned it.

Not really sure yet. I'd rather see a true de-regionalization, but this is a step in the right direction.
I'm not. I'm actually excited by this. I would love to have UNI or SDSU in Burgess-Snow for a game. It would be a lot more entertaining than some random team from Texas.

[IBleedYellow]

I said sort of annoyed.

It's not far enough, is what I'm meaning.

[JSUSoutherner]

I said sort of annoyed.

It's not far enough, is what I'm meaning.
I know what you mean.

It would be nice for it to go to true de-regionalization but it's a step in the right direction and I'll gladly take what we can get.

[IBleedYellow]

I know what you mean.

It would be nice for it to go to true de-regionalization but it's a step in the right direction and I'll gladly take what we can get.

Agreed.

However my reasoning is sort of self-serving. The more new blood we can get into the Fargodome during the playoffs - the better our chances. :D

It's crazy how terrible teams do there for their first playoff game. xthumbsupxxnodx

[kdinva]

Well...sort of.


"Missouri Valley Football Conference commissioner Patty Viverito said the policy would only go into effect if at least four teams from one conference make the 24-team field."


http://www.inforum.com/sports/4048426-committee-approval-major-step-fcs-playoffs-avoiding-regional-matchups#.V1WMTKtvqDA.twitter

I'm sure Herbstreit will weigh in with an opinion....

[Bisonator]

This is a joke IMO. They had a chance to actually make it right and this is the best they could do? So now unless there are 4 teams from one conference it'll be the same old same old. xsmhx

[RootinFerDukes]

So maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but if four teams from one conference get in, which is every single season, then only members of those conferences get to avoid regionalization, or the entire national field?

[RootinFerDukes]

Additionally, I could see this leading to them picking a second big south or socon team over a fourth CAA team just so they can save on costs by still regionalizing.

[Daytripper]

So maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but if four teams from one conference get in, which is every single season, then only members of those conferences get to avoid regionalization, or the entire national field?

It seems that a de-regionalization put into effect for one conference would have a ripple impact on the rest of the field.

[clenz]

So maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but if four teams from one conference get in, which is every single season, then only members of those conferences get to avoid regionalization, or the entire national field?
Only that conference I believe

[RootinFerDukes]

South Dakota state, Illinois state, uni and Montana fans must be jumping out of their boots right now.
It's okay though, if the last five years have shown us anything, you're still going to have to eventually face ndsu at some point in the playoffs.

[clenz]

Additionally, I could see this leading to them picking a second big south or socon team over a fourth CAA team just so they can save on costs by still regionalizing.
This.

Hello 3 bids for the OVC, SLC, SoCon, MVFC, Big Sky and CAA and then 2 for the Big South, NEC, PFL, etc....

We may see a dramatic decrease in number of bids from the top bid conference

[RootinFerDukes]

Only that conference I believe

I know that if the Mvfc got 5 in and the CAA 4, you're looking at 18 of 24 not regionalized anyways. However, why would only one or two conferences get the benefit of a fairer matchup? Do it for the whole field or don't bother.
Hello Mvfc and CAA teams in the final four each year.

[JSUSoutherner]

I know that if the Mvfc got 5 in and the CAA 4, you're looking at 18 of 24 not regionalized anyways. However, why would only one or two conferences get the benefit of a fairer matchup? Do it for the whole field or don't bother.
Hello Mvfc and CAA teams in the final four each year.
Or not?

[kdinva]

This.

Hello 3 bids for the OVC, SLC, SoCon, MVFC, Big Sky and CAA and then 2 for the Big South, NEC,

We may see a dramatic decrease in number of bids from the top bid conference

...which means more "rematches" in the round of 16, instead of later on in the playoff......xthumbsdownx

[clenz]

...which means more "rematches" in the round of 16, instead of later on in the playoff......xthumbsdownx
Yup.

Maybe I'll be wrong...maybe.

Just watch though. We'll see less 4 and 1 bid conferences and almost every conference, sans maybe the PFL, will be a 2 or 3 bid conference moving forward.

[RootinFerDukes]

Yup.

Maybe I'll be wrong...maybe.

Just watch though. We'll see less 4 and 1 bid conferences and almost every conference, sans maybe the PFL, will be a 2 or 3 bid conference moving forward.

Which will lead to more blowout wins by higher conference teams. Ndsu will probably win 27 consecutive titles as the field becomes less competitive.

Eh. I'll worry about it when it happens. I'm being dramatic.

[Thumper 76]

South Dakota state, Illinois state, uni and Montana fans must be jumping out of their boots right now.
It's okay though, if the last five years have shown us anything, you're still going to have to eventually face ndsu at some point in the playoffs.

Nah, not a goddamn thing will change for SDSU. They will put the ISU's, WIU, or UNI on the other side of the bracket. SDSU will be the team that is forever paired with NDSU and Montana. This rule just allows that to stay the same. In short, even with getting a seed it's going to be real hard for SDSU to avoid NDSU or Montana.


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[clenz]

Nah, not a goddamn thing will change for SDSU. They will put the ISU's, WIU, or UNI on the other side of the bracket. SDSU will be the team that is forever paired with NDSU and Montana. This rule just allows that to stay the same. In short, even with getting a seed it's going to be real hard for SDSU to avoid NDSU or Montana.


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Yup.

Although with more teams from the east (re: more NEC, Big South, etc... bids) UNI will get shifted back west again.

[BisonTru]

Additionally, I could see this leading to them picking a second big south or socon team over a fourth CAA team just so they can save on costs by still regionalizing.

The selection committee doesn't care about the money. The NCAA does, that's why there is regionalization. From my understanding of the rules and this proposed rule, they are basically getting one "break the rules of regionalization" card to try and split up teams from a 4 bid conference. It's a start, but we are still going to see a lot potential second round re-matches.

[Thumper 76]

Yup.

Although with more teams from the east (re: more NEC, Big South, etc... bids) UNI will get shifted back west again.

Only works for UNI if it's SDSU, NDSU, UNI, and one eastern MVFC team. Otherwise, welcome to the norm.


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[BisonTru]

Yup.

Maybe I'll be wrong...maybe.

Just watch though. We'll see less 4 and 1 bid conferences and almost every conference, sans maybe the PFL, will be a 2 or 3 bid conference moving forward.

The selection committee is not going to avoid putting 4 teams from one conference because they could potentially use a rule to eliminate some regionalization. The committee hates regionalization as much as we do.

[Thumper 76]



The selection committee is not going to avoid putting 4 teams from one conference because they could potentially use a rule to eliminate some regionalization. The committee hates regionalization as much as we do.

I guarantee that one teams fans will use that as what they bitch about for being left out though. If not more. Every year.


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[344Johnson]

I guarantee that one teams fans will use that as what they bitch about for being left out though. If not more. Every year.


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If you complain about not getting to the playoffs, you weren't going to win anyway.

[DFW HOYA]

This.

Hello 3 bids for the OVC, SLC, SoCon, MVFC, Big Sky and CAA and then 2 for the Big South, NEC, PFL, etc....

We may see a dramatic decrease in number of bids from the top bid conference

There will never be two bids from the PFL in our lifetime.

[F'N Hawks]

If you complain about not getting to the playoffs, you weren't going to win anyway.

OK small picture, in the now guy. Think a little broader.

[clenz]

Only works for UNI if it's SDSU, NDSU, UNI, and one eastern MVFC team. Otherwise, welcome to the norm.


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Look at the playoff participants since 2010

It's all UNI, NDSU, SDSU and an eastern team trading years

Playoff appearances for each MVFC program
Illinois State - 2015, 2014, 2012, 2006, 1999, 1998
Indiana State - 2014
Missouri State - 1990, 1989
North Dakota State - 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010
Northern Iowa - 2015, 2014, 2011, 2010, 2008, 2007, 2005, 2003, 2001, 1996, 1995, 1994, 1993, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1987, 1985
South Dakota - never
South Dakota State - 2015, 2014, 2012, 2009
Southern Illinois - 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003
Western Illinois - 2015, 2010, 2003, 2002, 2000, 1998, 1997, 1996,1991, 1988
Youngstown State - 2006, 2000, 1999, 1997

[BisonTru]

I guarantee that one teams fans will use that as what they bitch about for being left out though. If not more. Every year.


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Absolutely. There will always be bitching and crazy conspiracy theories.

What's going to be interesting with this rule change is who gets the deviation from regionalization. It's fairly likely two conferences get 4 in. From my understanding this is one extra charter flight. So what matchup do you flip?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The selection committee doesn't care about the money. The NCAA does, that's why there is regionalization. From my understanding of the rules and this proposed rule, they are basically getting one "break the rules of regionalization" card to try and split up teams from a 4 bid conference. It's a start, but we are still going to see a lot potential second round re-matches.

Fully agree and glad someone else pointed this out cuz it is a real misnomer that always seems to be pointed at as if the selection committee is the NCAA.

I know a former member, have had discussions with him on this matter and the selection committee does it's job inside of the rules set aside for them to go by. This gives them some leverage. Not a huge win but giving them some room seems beneficial but as others point out there could be the usual unintended consequences and thus the conspiracy theories can remain a large part of the yearly playoffs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]



The selection committee is not going to avoid putting 4 teams from one conference because they could potentially use a rule to eliminate some regionalization. The committee hates regionalization as much as we do.

Again, nailing it Tru.

[344Johnson]

OK small picture, in the now guy. Think a little broader.

#LeaveNoDoubt ;)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I guarantee that one teams fans will use that as what they bitch about for being left out though. If not more. Every year.


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Exactly, people will look for a reason, then they will pass it around as if it is a fact and a true conspiracy as to what happened...even though they won't be able to convince others outside of their team and conference that they were more deserving. This will be the reason.

[AmsterBison]

Step in the right direction.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Which will lead to more blowout wins by higher conference teams. Ndsu will probably win 27 consecutive titles as the field becomes less competitive.

NDSU's title chances wouldn't increase or decrease, they won whatever system is in place.

Also - maybe, just maybe, more places for conferences not named Missouri Valley or Big Sky might mean more "upsets", as mid-tiered MVFC and Big Sky teams are exposed as paper tigers.

[Lehigh Football Nation]



The selection committee is not going to avoid putting 4 teams from one conference because they could potentially use a rule to eliminate some regionalization. The committee hates regionalization as much as we do.


The selection committee doesn't care about the money. The NCAA does, that's why there is regionalization. From my understanding of the rules and this proposed rule, they are basically getting one "break the rules of regionalization" card to try and split up teams from a 4 bid conference. It's a start, but we are still going to see a lot potential second round re-matches.

So you're saying that the reason they "regionalized" last year had nothing to do with money? That they "secretly hated it", but somehow were forced by (who? Illuminati?) to regionalize against their wishes?

Yeah, the same committee that had 6-5 Western Illinois travelling to Dayton was "forced against their wishes" to regionalize.

[BisonTru]

So you're saying that the reason they "regionalized" last year had nothing to do with money? That they "secretly hated it", but somehow were forced by (who? Illuminati?) to regionalize against their wishes?

Yeah, the same committee that had 6-5 Western Illinois travelling to Dayton was "forced against their wishes" to regionalize.

It's in the GD rules. You've been here for over a decade and have 17K posts, and you're having a hard time understanding this? The NCAA puts out rules and guidelines that the committee is, yes, forced to follow.

[Bisonoline]

What a bunch of BS. All you have to do is seed each team the way they are SUPPOSED to be seeded. If a re-match up occurs thats the way its supposed to be.

All they are doing now is muddying up the waters by taking two left turns to get around their thumb trying to get back to their azz.

[mvemjsunpx]

It's in the GD rules. You've been here for over a decade and have 17K posts, and you're having a hard time understanding this? The NCAA puts out rules and guidelines that the committee is, yes, forced to follow.

And who do you think wanted those rules? The committee consists of ADs and most ADs like cutting costs above all else.

[Professor Chaos]

It's in the GD rules. You've been here for over a decade and have 17K posts, and you're having a hard time understanding this? The NCAA puts out rules and guidelines that the committee is, yes, forced to follow.
They aren't forced to do it. In 2013 SDSU was matched up with NAU in the 1st round with the winner to #3 EWU and #1 NDSU got the winner of Furman and SCSU. That was with the 24 team field as well. Seems that year the committee just used a little common sense to not force SDSU to once again go to NDSU when they had matched up 3 times between that and the previous season. It seems the more time goes on the more common sense is thrown aside so they can hide behind the rules.

I guess this rule change is good but it seems more like a Band-Aid or a way to throw the critics (which have been mostly in the MVFC) a bone so they can say "See, we're trying to de-regionalize and help you out". Hopefully it leads to better, and simpler, reform instead of just convoluting the process with another rule that "must be followed" sometimes to the detriment of common sense.

[PantherRob82]

And who do you think wanted those rules? The committee consists of ADs and most ADs like cutting costs above all else.

The NCAA pays for playoff travel.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The NCAA pays for playoff travel.

Yep.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The NCAA pays for playoff travel.


Yep.

As you both already know, the schools themselves pay the NCAA guarantee money. From that pot of money, the NCAA pays for playoff travel. And the schools pay to rent facilities, hire people, etc. to host playoff games at home sites.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

They aren't forced to do it. In 2013 SDSU was matched up with NAU in the 1st round with the winner to #3 EWU and #1 NDSU got the winner of Furman and SCSU. That was with the 24 team field as well. Seems that year the committee just used a little common sense to not force SDSU to once again go to NDSU when they had matched up 3 times between that and the previous season. It seems the more time goes on the more common sense is thrown aside so they can hide behind the rules.

I guess this rule change is good but it seems more like a Band-Aid or a way to throw the critics (which have been mostly in the MVFC) a bone so they can say "See, we're trying to de-regionalize and help you out". Hopefully it leads to better, and simpler, reform instead of just convoluting the process with another rule that "must be followed" sometimes to the detriment of common sense.

The way it has worked does not center around the MVFC. It might have been that as an overall that was the best way to go considering the other teams in. I would have to go look but I've not seen a year where they don't do it pretty much the same way but it sometimes moves around as to what team(s) is affected worst by it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

As you both already know, the schools themselves pay the NCAA guarantee money. From that pot of money, the NCAA pays for playoff travel. And the schools pay to rent facilities, hire people, etc. to host playoff games at home sites.

Yeah, so what? WTF difference does that make? Are you seriously trying to say that the selection committee somehow worrying about how much money the NCAA keeps? You gotta be f'n kidding me right? This is their concern? Really?

Man, some of you people and your clinging to illogical BS is fairly amusing but also fairly frustrating at the sheer lack of thinking put into any of it. It's just kind of dumb man.

[IBleedYellow]

As you both already know, the schools themselves pay the NCAA guarantee money. From that pot of money, the NCAA pays for playoff travel. And the schools pay to rent facilities, hire people, etc. to host playoff games at home sites.

Exactly. The FCS playoffs cost the NCAA nothing to run as long as this continues to happen:

NDSU gets 1 or 2 home games.
Montana gets 1 or 2 home games.
All other schools continue paying the minimum bid - and they get higher than it in ticket sales.

Just THOSE TWO schools going to the quarters or semis basically covers all of the flights for everyone else.

What point are you trying to make? Mine is that the FCS is cheap to run the playoffs for, despite regionalization.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yeah, so what? WTF difference does that make? Are you seriously trying to say that the selection committee somehow worrying about how much money the NCAA keeps? You gotta be f'n kidding me right? This is their concern? Really?

Man, some of you people and your clinging to illogical BS is fairly amusing but also fairly frustrating at the sheer lack of thinking put into any of it. It's just kind of dumb man.

You agreed with Rob that "the NCAA pays for playoff travel", implying somehow that the NCAA was forcing the playoff committee's hand to regionalize.

My assertion is that it's the schools themselves - who have to pay the guarantees to the NCAA and host the games - that are behind it, and any legislation to try to change this is akin to "stop me before I put four teams on the same side of the bracket again to save money for my schools".

[BisonTru]

Yeah, so what? WTF difference does that make? Are you seriously trying to say that the selection committee somehow worrying about how much money the NCAA keeps? You gotta be f'n kidding me right? This is their concern? Really?

Man, some of you people and your clinging to illogical BS is fairly amusing but also fairly frustrating at the sheer lack of thinking put into any of it. It's just kind of dumb man.

This. This doesn't seem too complicated. The committee wants the same things most of this community wants, but they are bound by rules and guidelines set by the NCAA.

Basically the old rule was pair the non seeds and feed them into the seeded teams creating the maximum amount bus trips without creating any first round conference rematches. The new rule basically allows the committee to add one unnecessary flight if it helps spread out a 4+ bid conference.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You agreed with Rob that "the NCAA pays for playoff travel", implying somehow that the NCAA was forcing the playoff committee's hand to regionalize.

My assertion is that it's the schools themselves - who have to pay the guarantees to the NCAA and host the games - that are behind it, and any legislation to try to change this is akin to "stop me before I put four teams on the same side of the bracket again to save money for my schools".

WTF are you talking about? I really can't figure out the mangled structure of that last one. You know that the rules are set up by the D1 body which is much, much more than just the few playoff schools so how does any of that make sense.

**** it, this is just too damn stupid to try and argue some conspiracy BS with you.

Be dumb about it if it makes you feel good I guess.xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This. This doesn't seem too complicated. The committee wants the same things most of this community wants, but they are bound by rules and guidelines set by the NCAA.

So you're saying last year the committee had no choice but to put all the MVFC teams on the same side of the bracket. Say it!

[Catbooster]

As you both already know, the schools themselves pay the NCAA guarantee money. From that pot of money, the NCAA pays for playoff travel. And the schools pay to rent facilities, hire people, etc. to host playoff games at home sites.
The schools will pay the NCAA the same amount whether the bracket is regionalized or not. I really don't think the match-up has anything to do with the size of the bid - especially since bids are due before the match-ups are made. So if the committee saves travel money, it will go to the NCAA's pocket, not the school's. Just like Ursus pointed out, the committee (made up of AD's) would only be making more money for the NCAA, not their schools or conference mates, by regionalizing the bracket.

[Professor Chaos]

The way it has worked does not center around the MVFC. It might have been that as an overall that was the best way to go considering the other teams in. I would have to go look but I've not seen a year where they don't do it pretty much the same way but it sometimes moves around as to what team(s) is affected worst by it.
Yeah, I know it's always been that way but with the increased field it means the committee has more unseeded teams to regionalize so the tournament gets to be even more regionalized that it had ever been before.

To be clear, I'm not completely against regionalization I'm just against regionalization controlling so much of how the bracket is built. I think there needs to be something based on the quality of the teams that supersedes regionalization for the unseeded teams like pooling teams into groups of 4 on seed lines.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah, I know it's always been that way but with the increased field it means the committee has more unseeded teams to regionalize so the tournament gets to be even more regionalized that it had ever been before.

To be clear, I'm not completely against regionalization I'm just against regionalization controlling so much of how the bracket is built. I think there needs to be something based on the quality of the teams that supersedes regionalization for the unseeded teams like pooling teams into groups of 4 on seed lines.

I'm all for good ideas and so forth but if we look at any other NCAA tourney that is like the FCS playoffs is the NCAA using a better model? What you are basically saying is setting up a regiounal which would be fine if all teams were flying to one location for that regional but how would this work if it is still at hosted venues as we now have?

I don't care how much the NCAA goes into a loss on this thing but they might care about it a bit so it seems like a hard idea to win on doesn't it?

[BisonTru]

So you're saying last year the committee had no choice but to put all the MVFC teams on the same side of the bracket. Say it!

I've said that since the bracket was released. The reason why all the MVFC teams ended up on one side was because of the rules and guidelines set forth by the NCAA. The committee didn't do that on purpose. It's a dumb theory and I've never supported it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

WTF are you talking about? I really can't figure out the mangled structure of that last one. You know that the rules are set up by the D1 body which is much, much more than just the few playoff schools so how does any of that make sense.

Let me lay it out.

Why did the MVFC end up on the same side of the bracket last year?

Did the NCAA "leave them no choice", like BisonTru seems to believe, or did the members of the playoff subcommittee simply make a massive goof?

If they made a massive goof, what's the point in making some sort of rule fix? They're going to make a rule so they don't make the same dumbass mistake they made in the first place? Good luck with that.

If the NCAA "left them no choice", what the hell will this rule change? The same bad policy of "regionalization uber alles" will still be in play - so in the case of last year, Western Illinois will be forced to fly to Southern Utah instead of busing to Dayton. Some have said that the committee might deny at-large bids to MVFC members so they don't kick off the rule. Again, how does this fix anything?

[Professor Chaos]

I'm all for good ideas and so forth but if we look at any other NCAA tourney that is like the FCS playoffs is the NCAA using a better model? What you are basically saying is setting up a regiounal which would be fine if all teams were flying to one location for that regional but how would this work if it is still at hosted venues as we now have?

I don't care how much the NCAA goes into a loss on this thing but they might care about it a bit so it seems like a hard idea to win on doesn't it?
That's the big question. How much financial risk does the NCAA want to assume by reforming the playoff structure? This new rule tweak was probably an easy sell because it should only add 2 extra charter flights at most. Reform like I'm advocating carries more risk with it because in certain years it could add 5 or 6 more charter flights over the first couple rounds. I know the NCAA's goal isn't to put on the cheapest tournament possible it's to be responsible with spending considering FCS playoff games at most places aren't going to break the bank with gate receipts. I have no idea how often they make or lose money on the FCS playoffs but the fact that needs to be weighed against the financial risk is that the playoff product is better when they're matching up new opponents and not re-playing the regular season over the first 2 rounds.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Let me lay it out.

Why did the MVFC end up on the same side of the bracket last year?

Did the NCAA "leave them no choice", like BisonTru seems to believe, or did the members of the playoff subcommittee simply make a massive goof?

If they made a massive goof, what's the point in making some sort of rule fix? They're going to make a rule so they don't make the same dumbass mistake they made in the first place? Good luck with that.

If the NCAA "left them no choice", what the hell will this rule change? The same bad policy of "regionalization uber alles" will still be in play - so in the case of last year, Western Illinois will be forced to fly to Southern Utah instead of busing to Dayton. Some have said that the committee might deny at-large bids to MVFC members so they don't kick off the rule. Again, how does this fix anything?

This is the part you should have paid attention to cuz I'm not doing your silly little troll show LFN.


**** it, this is just too damn stupid to try and argue some conspiracy BS with you.

Be dumb about it if it makes you feel good I guess.xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That's the big question. How much financial risk does the NCAA want to assume by reforming the playoff structure? This new rule tweak was probably an easy sell because it should only add 2 extra charter flights at most. Reform like I'm advocating carries more risk with it because in certain years it could add 5 or 6 more charter flights over the first couple rounds. I know the NCAA's goal isn't to put on the cheapest tournament possible it's to be responsible with spending considering FCS playoff games at most places aren't going to break the bank with gate receipts. I have no idea how often they make or lose money on the FCS playoffs but the fact that needs to be weighed against the financial risk is that the playoff product is better when they're matching up new opponents and not re-playing the regular season over the first 2 rounds.

I agree with all that and I think they have answered these questions for us by what we have now. They are willing to do what they are doing because the FCS doeesn't lose too much this way or can break enve. I really believe this is where they want to be and where be will be.

They are not willing to just give the FCS playoff an open checkbook like we'd all want. This new change gives a little bit in the direction we'd like to see things go, but if more stadiums around the country don't start god damn filling up during playoffs then what we want doesn't mean **** cuz at this point, as a group, we are basically welfare recipients asking for more.

Until it produces, we have little leverage unfortunately.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I agree with all that and I think they have answered these questions for us by what we have now. They are willing to do what they are doing because the FCS doeesn't lose too much this way or can break enve. I really believe this is where they want to be and where be will be.

They are not willing to just give the FCS playoff an open checkbook like we'd all want. This new change gives a little bit in the direction we'd like to see things go, but if more stadiums around the country don't start god damn filling up during playoffs then what we want doesn't mean **** cuz at this point, as a group, we are basically welfare recipients asking for more.

Until it produces, we have little leverage unfortunately.

This new change means everyone can slap everyone on the back and say "nice job" when none of the underlying issues are addressed and nothing is solved.

[superman7515]

Look, we all get it. When there were 5 CAA teams in a field of 16, no problem with them beating each other up, just the cost of business. But now that those poor little snowflakes in the MVFC are getting their feelings hurt by having to play a team from their own conference in the second round, just like everyone else has to do from time to time, instead of being catered to like the unique and special people their mommies told them they are, well now it's a problem. Hell, it's probably racist against those of Scandinavian descent. #MakeYoungstownGreatAgain #FeelTheVermillion #ImWithViverito #NeverMontana

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Nah, not a goddamn thing will change for SDSU. They will put the ISU's, WIU, or UNI on the other side of the bracket. SDSU will be the team that is forever paired with NDSU and Montana. This rule just allows that to stay the same. In short, even with getting a seed it's going to be real hard for SDSU to avoid NDSU or Montana.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Really, really easy way for SDSU to avoid Montana, NDSU or UNI.....WIN the damn conference and get a #1 or #2 seed. Play at home against a cupcake from the NEC or Patriot then if you have to play a MV or BS team it will be at home. But then again, if NDSU comes to town in early December, there will probably be more Bison fans there....xnodx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Look, we all get it. When there were 5 CAA teams in a field of 16, no problem with them beating each other up, just the cost of business. But now that those poor little snowflakes in the MVFC are getting their feelings hurt by having to play a team from their own conference in the second round, just like everyone else has to do from time to time, instead of being catered to like the unique and special people their mommies told them they are, well now it's a problem. Hell, it's probably racist against those of Scandinavian descent. #MakeYoungstownGreatAgain #FeelTheVermillion #ImWithViverito #NeverMontana

The poor little "snowflake" NDSU has done pretty well with whatever kind of bracket has been proposed the last few years....xcoffeex

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This new change means everyone can slap everyone on the back and say "nice job" when none of the underlying issues are addressed and nothing is solved.

Who the hell said it solved any underlying problems? Why do you keep making things up without making a single valid point LFN.? For whatever reason you are trying to take an unnecessary ass kicking here. They are trying to get one little piece of leverage to help situations like last year out a little bit. Nobody said this was a cure for cancer man so stop with the crazy crap.

Go take a knee, regroup, see if you can say something sensible after you catch your breath.xthumbsupx

[superman7515]

The poor little "snowflake" NDSU has done pretty well with whatever kind of bracket has been proposed the last few years....xcoffeex

How'd Western Illinois & UNI do with their rematches last year? Northern Iowa & SDSU in 2014?


Is that a guilty conscience about something you know that no one even implied, or do you just think that NDSU is the only team in the MVFC capable of crying and throwing a hissy fit if things don't go their way?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The poor little "snowflake" NDSU has done pretty well with whatever kind of bracket has been proposed the last few years....xcoffeex

The teams have, the fans (NVFC) have not been nearly as durable although there are a lot of Bison fans that don't whine nearly as bad as some of the other fans have. That seemed pretty clearly to be what supey was pointing at.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

How'd Western Illinois & UNI do with their rematches last year? Northern Iowa & SDSU in 2014?


Is that a guilty conscience about something you know that no one even implied, or do you just think that NDSU is the only team in the MVFC capable of crying and throwing a hissy fit if things don't go their way?




Obviously, you haven't seen too many of my posts on this over the years. I have always said..."bring whomever on" come playoffs. Ya, seeing new teams is nice but you have to play whomever is next.

[FUBeAR]

Additionally, I could see this leading to them picking a ̶s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶ third...socon team over a fourth CAA team just so they can save on costs by still regionalizing.

FIFY

BTW - Interesting comment considering the Dukes just picked a 'second socon team' from which to hire their new Head Coach.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Who the hell said it solved any underlying problems? Why do you keep making things up without making a single valid point LFN.? For whatever reason you are trying to take an unnecessary ass kicking here. They are trying to get one little piece of leverage to help situations like last year out a little bit. Nobody said this was a cure for cancer man so stop with the crazy crap.

Go take a knee, regroup, see if you can say something sensible after you catch your breath.xthumbsupx

If it doesn't fix the problem, why the hell are the doing it?

Patty V. is trying to make it seem like, suddenly, it is some major leap of NCAA policy to put the final MVFC team on a flight when countless Big Sky, Southland, CAA teams have had their final at-large teams on flights for years. It used to be a given that New Hampshire would have a road to the championship that involved flights to Florida, Big Sky Country and the Midwest. Last year, the winner of the New Hampshire/JMU/Colgate pod was going to be making a flight. They weren't going to be playing the Richmond/William&Mary/Duquesne pod winner. If the NCAA really was the bogeyman here, wouldn't that have happened?

I see this as Patty V. is trying to put this narrow legislation through in an effort to assign all the blame of the debacle of 2015 on the NCAA, and to divert blame from the people that actually made the travesty happen, the people in the room picking the teams. How can this be interpreted as something incremental to something better? What, exactly?

[Bisonoline]

Look, we all get it. When there were 5 CAA teams in a field of 16, no problem with them beating each other up, just the cost of business. But now that those poor little snowflakes in the MVFC are getting their feelings hurt by having to play a team from their own conference in the second round, just like everyone else has to do from time to time, instead of being catered to like the unique and special people their mommies told them they are, well now it's a problem. Hell, it's probably racist against those of Scandinavian descent. #MakeYoungstownGreatAgain #FeelTheVermillion #ImWithViverito #NeverMontana

5 out of 16 you cant but help have a re-match up even if they are seeded correctly. 5 out of 24 ?
The point is. Run the damn thing like a tournament should be run. You seed the teams the way should be and let the chips fall where they may. You dont seed teams based on geography.

I dont see whats so freaking difficult about that.

[Bisonoline]

If it doesn't fix the problem, why the hell are the doing it?

Patty V. is trying to make it seem like, suddenly, it is some major leap of NCAA policy to put the final MVFC team on a flight when countless Big Sky, Southland, CAA teams have had their final at-large teams on flights for years. It used to be a given that New Hampshire would have a road to the championship that involved flights to Florida, Big Sky Country and the Midwest. Last year, the winner of the New Hampshire/JMU/Colgate pod was going to be making a flight. They weren't going to be playing the Richmond/William&Mary/Duquesne pod winner. If the NCAA really was the bogeyman here, wouldn't that have happened?

I see this as Patty V. is trying to put this narrow legislation through in an effort to assign all the blame of the debacle of 2015 on the NCAA, and to divert blame from the people that actually made the travesty happen, the people in the room picking the teams. How can this be interpreted as something incremental to something better? What, exactly?

Reading comprehension seems to be an issue with you. Let me splain this to you------The people in the room were following NCAA guidelines. Thats a fact. No room for interpretation. Got it?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Reading comprehension seems to be an issue with you. Let me spain this to you------The people in the room were following NCAA guidelines. Thats a fact. No room for interpretation. Got it?

He has trouble. Hell he is right on 1/2 of it and in fact others have made the statements he's making but he's taking them, mixing them in a pot, and coming up with some other crazy **** so it's probably time to lean back and chuckle at it.

It has happened before. We would all like to see it be better. It won't be fixed completely. So LFN thinks it better that nothing is done, cuz then the MVFC doesn't get some gratification? I'm not sure, it is too dumb to follow.

If they give some room, even a little bit, to give the selection committee a chance to make a better bracket, I am all for it. LFN wants to find some superfluous crap to argue why it isn't better cuz it doesn't fix everything. F'n funny stuff. xlolx

[taper]

Look, we all get it. When there were 5 CAA teams in a field of 16, no problem with them beating each other up, just the cost of business. But now that those poor little snowflakes in the MVFC are getting their feelings hurt by having to play a team from their own conference in the second round, just like everyone else has to do from time to time, instead of being catered to like the unique and special people their mommies told them they are, well now it's a problem. Hell, it's probably racist against those of Scandinavian descent. #MakeYoungstownGreatAgain #FeelTheVermillion #ImWithViverito #NeverMontana

Those 5 of 16 CAA teams were perfectly split up. If they'd all won there'd be 4 CAA in the semis. Compare with 5 all on one side last year. 7 of the 8 2nd round games were potentially conference and/or OOC rematches so it was hardly just MVFC complaining.

[RootinFerDukes]

5 out of 16 you cant but help have a re-match up even if they are seeded correctly. 5 out of 24 ?
The point is. Run the damn thing like a tournament should be run. You seed the teams the way should be and let the chips fall where they may. You dont seed teams based on geography.

I dont see whats so freaking difficult about that.

That makes too much sense. I agree that's how it should be done.
The NCAA doesn't want to lose more money by making the playoffs consist of more plane flights than necessary. That's why it's not happening. Someone up top isn't allowing it to happen.

[uni88]

If it doesn't fix the problem, why the hell are the doing it?

Patty V. is trying to make it seem like, suddenly, it is some major leap of NCAA policy to put the final MVFC team on a flight when countless Big Sky, Southland, CAA teams have had their final at-large teams on flights for years. It used to be a given that New Hampshire would have a road to the championship that involved flights to Florida, Big Sky Country and the Midwest. Last year, the winner of the New Hampshire/JMU/Colgate pod was going to be making a flight. They weren't going to be playing the Richmond/William&Mary/Duquesne pod winner. If the NCAA really was the bogeyman here, wouldn't that have happened?

I see this as Patty V. is trying to put this narrow legislation through in an effort to assign all the blame of the debacle of 2015 on the NCAA, and to divert blame from the people that actually made the travesty happen, the people in the room picking the teams. How can this be interpreted as something incremental to something better? What, exactly?

It's been stated repeatedly but I'll say it again so hopefully it sinks in this time. Those 5 MVFC teams were on the same side of the bracket because of the seeding and the regionalization requirements. Once ISUr and NDSU were seeded 2 & 3, they were on the same side of the bracket and in order to minimize travel UNI, SDSU and WIU were placed on the same side of the bracket. Adjust the regionalization requirement and 1 of those 3 could have been placed on the other side of the bracket. NDSU gets a 4 seed instead of a 3 and the bracket looks completely different. It was the luck (or bad luck) of the draw.

I didn't complain about having to go through Fargo. I knew that if UNI was going to win the Natty we were likely going to have to beat the Bison. I knew it would be a tough task but I liked the 2015 team and felt they had as good of a chance as anyone of beating NDSU.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's been stated repeatedly but I'll say it again so hopefully it sinks in this time. Those 5 MVFC teams were on the same side of the bracket because of the seeding and the regionalization requirements. Once ISUr and NDSU were seeded 2 & 3, they were on the same side of the bracket and in order to minimize travel UNI, SDSU and WIU were placed on the same side of the bracket. Adjust the regionalization requirement and 1 of those 3 could have been placed on the other side of the bracket. NDSU gets a 4 seed instead of a 3 and the bracket looks completely different. It was the luck (or bad luck) of the draw.

The real problem is that the MVFC teams were seeded 2 and 3, instead of 1 and 3 or 2 and 4.... Then you would have had an entirely different bracket.

Which again points to committee idiocy rather than the poor MVFC being the victims of mean, old NCAA policy.

Point being, there were plenty of outs for the committee, but instead, they chose this abomination.

[kdinva]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_50-gOeBilc

[BisonTru]

The real problem is that the MVFC teams were seeded 2 and 3, instead of 1 and 3 or 2 and 4.... Then you would have had an entirely different bracket.

Which again points to committee idiocy rather than the poor MVFC being the victims of mean, old NCAA policy.

Point being, there were plenty of outs for the committee, but instead, they chose this abomination.

So they should have dropped NDSU down a seed to even out the bracket? F that. Seed the damn eight you're allowed by the NCAA the way you see fit.

I'd be pissed if they came out and announced we thought NDSU was better than McNeese but we gave NDSU a worse seed to balance it out.

[uni88]

The real problem is that the MVFC teams were seeded 2 and 3, instead of 1 and 3 or 2 and 4.... Then you would have had an entirely different bracket.

Which again points to committee idiocy rather than the poor MVFC being the victims of mean, old NCAA policy.

Point being, there were plenty of outs for the committee, but instead, they chose this abomination.

We have differing opinions on that one. You think the committee intentionally and idiotically seeded ISUr & NDSU 2 & 3 while I think it was done via secret ballot and that's how the chips happened to fall.

[Gangtackle11]

What it should have looked like:

The top 8 were the committee seeds:

I ranked 9-24 based on AGS poll from the last week of regular season:

16. Montana
17. Coastal Carolina
Winner plays #1 Jacksonville St.

9. South Dakota State
24. Duquesne
Winner plays # 8 Charleston So.

13. Southern Utah St.
20. Eastern Illinois
Winner plays #4 McNeese State

12. William & Mary
21. North Dakota
Winner plays #5 JMU

14. The Citadel
19. UNH
Winner plays # 3 NDSU

11. Chattanooga
22. Colgate
Winner plays # 6 Portland State

10. UNI
23. Dayton
Winner plays # 7 Richmond

15. Sam Houston St.
18. Fordham
Winner plays #2 Illinois State

Based on AGS rankings North Dakota would have made the playoffs over Western Illinois.

MVFC would have 4 teams and 3 would be on same side of bracket.

[BisonTru]

We have differing opinions on that one. You think the committee intentionally and idiotically seeded ISUr & NDSU 2 & 3 while I think it was done via secret ballot and that's how the chips happened to fall.

One of you is right. The other one is wearing a tin foil hat.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The real problem is that the MVFC teams were seeded 2 and 3, instead of 1 and 3 or 2 and 4.... Then you would have had an entirely different bracket.

Which again points to committee idiocy rather than the poor MVFC being the victims of mean, old NCAA policy.

Point being, there were plenty of outs for the committee, but instead, they chose this abomination.

You don't understand how the seeds are set do you LFN? You don't know **** about the actual process so you don't even see how or why what you are saying is wrong...man, I really expected someone around here as long as you, that pretends to know as much as you do, would know the process better than this.

They have a discussion to determine the "seed pool" and there is no limit, other than the 24 number as to how many teams are in that seed pool. Once that is set they have a preliminary vote, discuss what it looks like, see if there are any arguments as to a team that fell outside of the top 8 has a case to be in it, and so forth and so on.

Once that is done they have a secret ballot that sets the seed placement.

They can not change the god damn seeds once they have cast their ballots in the seed setting stage. There is no policy or procedure that allows the committee to do that and I am pretty sure most people would not think a good idea anyway.

I can not believe you are so uneducated on this simple topic. You better study up son, you are looking bad. Trying to lay the blame at the selection committee's feet when you don't know jack **** is pretty rich. If you are going to act like a know it all, at least have the basics down in the future please as those of us that do are offended by your lack of depth on the matter.xthumbsupx

[Bisonoline]

You don't understand how the seeds are set do you LFN? You don't know **** about the actual process so you don't even see how or why what you are saying is wrong...man, I really expected someone around here as long as you, that pretends to know as much as you do, would know the process better than this.

They have a discussion to determine the "seed pool" and there is no limit, other than the 24 number as to how many teams are in that seed pool. Once that is set they have a preliminary vote, discuss what it looks like, see if there are any arguments as to a team that fell outside of the top 8 has a case to be in it, and so forth and so on.

Once that is done they have a secret ballot that sets the seed placement.

They can not change the god damn seeds once they have cast their ballots in the seed setting stage. There is no policy or procedure that allows the committee to do that and I am pretty sure most people would not think a good idea anyway.

I can not believe you are so uneducated on this simple topic. You better study up son, you are looking bad. Trying to lay the blame at the selection committee's feet when you don't know jack **** is pretty rich. If you are going to act like a know it all, at least have the basics down in the future please as those of us that do are offended by your lack of depth on the matter.xthumbsupx


BOOM!!!!!!!

[dewey]

You don't understand how the seeds are set do you LFN? You don't know **** about the actual process so you don't even see how or why what you are saying is wrong...man, I really expected someone around here as long as you, that pretends to know as much as you do, would know the process better than this.

They have a discussion to determine the "seed pool" and there is no limit, other than the 24 number as to how many teams are in that seed pool. Once that is set they have a preliminary vote, discuss what it looks like, see if there are any arguments as to a team that fell outside of the top 8 has a case to be in it, and so forth and so on.

Once that is done they have a secret ballot that sets the seed placement.

They can not change the god damn seeds once they have cast their ballots in the seed setting stage. There is no policy or procedure that allows the committee to do that and I am pretty sure most people would not think a good idea anyway.

I can not believe you are so uneducated on this simple topic. You better study up son, you are looking bad. Trying to lay the blame at the selection committee's feet when you don't know jack **** is pretty rich. If you are going to act like a know it all, at least have the basics down in the future please as those of us that do are offended by your lack of depth on the matter.xthumbsupx

Ursus is bringing the smack down...if you smell what the Rock is cooking.

Dewey

[BisonTru]

What it should have looked like:

The top 8 were the committee seeds:

I ranked 9-24 based on AGS poll from the last week of regular season:

16. Montana
17. Coastal Carolina
Winner plays #1 Jacksonville St.

9. South Dakota State
24. Duquesne
Winner plays # 8 Charleston So.

13. Southern Utah St.
20. Eastern Illinois
Winner plays #4 McNeese State

12. William & Mary
21. North Dakota
Winner plays #5 JMU

14. The Citadel
19. UNH
Winner plays # 3 NDSU

11. Chattanooga
22. Colgate
Winner plays # 6 Portland State

10. UNI
23. Dayton
Winner plays # 7 Richmond

15. Sam Houston St.
18. Fordham
Winner plays #2 Illinois State

Based on AGS rankings North Dakota would have made the playoffs over Western Illinois.

MVFC would have 4 teams and 3 would be on same side of bracket.

I like this. However, I see 15-16 chartered flights and 0-1 bus trips in the first two rounds, and that is why we can't have this. :(

[TheKingpin28]

You don't understand how the seeds are set do you LFN? You don't know **** about the actual process so you don't even see how or why what you are saying is wrong...man, I really expected someone around here as long as you, that pretends to know as much as you do, would know the process better than this.

They have a discussion to determine the "seed pool" and there is no limit, other than the 24 number as to how many teams are in that seed pool. Once that is set they have a preliminary vote, discuss what it looks like, see if there are any arguments as to a team that fell outside of the top 8 has a case to be in it, and so forth and so on.

Once that is done they have a secret ballot that sets the seed placement.

They can not change the god damn seeds once they have cast their ballots in the seed setting stage. There is no policy or procedure that allows the committee to do that and I am pretty sure most people would not think a good idea anyway.

I can not believe you are so uneducated on this simple topic. You better study up son, you are looking bad. Trying to lay the blame at the selection committee's feet when you don't know jack **** is pretty rich. If you are going to act like a know it all, at least have the basics down in the future please as those of us that do are offended by your lack of depth on the matter.xthumbsupx

Spit that truth

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You don't understand how the seeds are set do you LFN? You don't know **** about the actual process so you don't even see how or why what you are saying is wrong...man, I really expected someone around here as long as you, that pretends to know as much as you do, would know the process better than this.

They have a discussion to determine the "seed pool" and there is no limit, other than the 24 number as to how many teams are in that seed pool. Once that is set they have a preliminary vote, discuss what it looks like, see if there are any arguments as to a team that fell outside of the top 8 has a case to be in it, and so forth and so on.

Once that is done they have a secret ballot that sets the seed placement.

They can not change the god damn seeds once they have cast their ballots in the seed setting stage. There is no policy or procedure that allows the committee to do that and I am pretty sure most people would not think a good idea anyway.

I can not believe you are so uneducated on this simple topic. You better study up son, you are looking bad. Trying to lay the blame at the selection committee's feet when you don't know jack **** is pretty rich. If you are going to act like a know it all, at least have the basics down in the future please as those of us that do are offended by your lack of depth on the matter.xthumbsupx

If you were in that room, and saw the actual process unfold, please, enlighten us all. Otherwise you're just as uneducated as me, you prissy condescending mother****er

[IBleedYellow]

If you were in that room, and saw the actual process unfold, please, enlighten us all. Otherwise you're just as uneducated as me, you prissy condescending mother****er

...you know that Ursus has interviewed MULTIPLE heads of the playoff committee and he's good friends with one of them?

You dumbass.

[JSUSoutherner]

https://media.giphy.com/media/ftXvsSyRzKXXG/giphy.gif

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If you were in that room, and saw the actual process unfold, please, enlighten us all. Otherwise you're just as uneducated as me, you prissy condescending mother****er

You wanna bet dumbass? I am condescending you due to your relentless bull**** all the time. I'll give you Mark f'n Willson's account of it numbnuts since he was the head of the selection committee and gave the account verbatim as it happened for last year to us.

Now STFU, you don't know a god damn thing about what you are trying to talk about and you got your ass handed to you. End of story. Trolly got trolled and is now pissed about it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

...you know that Ursus has interviewed MULTIPLE heads of the playoff committee and he's good friends with one of them?

You dumbass.

I was only relaying the information from the current head of the committee. I wasn't even going back to the former one.:D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22581&stc=1



Seriously, how do you get gifs to work?

You need to grab the link and then post it as an image. Send me the link and I'll test it if you need to.

[BisonTru]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22581&stc=1



Seriously, how do you get gifs to work?

Uncheck the "retrieve remote file and reference locally" box when submitting the image.

[JSUSoutherner]

Uncheck the "retrieve remote file and reference locally" box when submitting the image.
This was my issue.

One of the few times that gif was useful and when it comes time for it I completely screw it up. xlolx

[F'N Hawks]

I'll give you Mark f'n Willson's account of it numbnuts since he was the head of the selection committee and gave the account verbatim as it happened for last year to us.


I am trying to move on. No comment. xdeadhorsex #highroad

[Daytripper]

https://media.giphy.com/media/P8YZN6CLFH4pa/giphy.gif

[clenz]

What it should have looked like:

The top 8 were the committee seeds:

I ranked 9-24 based on AGS poll from the last week of regular season:


Based on AGS rankings North Dakota would have made the playoffs over Western Illinois.

MVFC would have 4 teams and 3 would be on same side of bracket.
Which is fine as there is a ranking system behind it, not a "You're close to them so you play them" answer.

The thing the CAA fans don't get is they say "We had rematches too" Sure you did. Absolutely. The issue the CAA will never face that the MVFC or Big Sky (or even the SLC to potentially slightly lesser extent) is that regionalization will almost never truly be an issue.

Look at a map of FCS programs

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/HWID_zpsrg4yjk0h.png

The CAA footprint nearly identical to the NEC and Patriot and because of the overlap on the CAA's south side with the north side of the Big South/SoCon foot print (which also overlaps with the east side of the OVC) there is literally dozens of potential match ups to rationalize and avoid putting all teams in one side of the bracket or avoid rematches as long as possible while using "bus trips" as the reason. Look at how the CAA teams were split when they were getting 4 or 5 teams every year. It was an even split or 3/2 more than it was all but one on one side (never were all on the same side).

What will really screw the MVFC (UNI, NDSU, SDSU, USD, MSU) and the Big Sky (and lesser extent SLC) most years is the one of the eastern MVFC schools getting in. They take the east route to the OVC and then SoCon/CAA which leaves only the Big Sky and west MVFC to play that entire side of the bracket, plus whatever SLC team gets cast west.

I understand "having to beat the best to be the best" or whatever macho bull **** wants to be spewed. You want to be champion right now, you have to beat NDSU. The reality is that a team like Colgate can make a quater/semis run and have a chance to avoid NDSU until the title game because of where they are. Where a team like Montana, UNI, SUU, Portlant State, etc... will never have that option. I'd take playing NDSU in Frisco well before playing them in Fargo....and this coming from a fan of a team that has had his team win in the FargoDome, beat NDSU relatively regularly and the only team to give them a game every time they play.

Same as avoiding Montana in WaGriz come playoff time. Give me Montana in Frisco, Chatty, hell Tokyo for all I care. Also give me that game in the title game or semis not the first or second round. Why? Avoid as long as possible to create a potential slipping spot for them elsewhere before they get to you.

I compare it to the MVC conference tournament the past few years with Wichita State. It is "better" to be the 2, 3, 6, 7 or 10 than a 4, 5, 8 or 9. Why? Wichita State was the 1. Avoid them as long as possible. Give them a chance to slip (as they are known to do in the conference tournament). Create better odds to get that title.

When you go into the playoffs knowing that you're going to be fed straight into Fargo, Missoula, Big Sky Champ, etc... it sucks a lot of the "energy" as a fan from it. It's been pointed out on multiple threads (by me) that outside of NDSU the MVFC wins over 2/3rds of their playoff games against non-MVFC rematches. Over the last 5 years or so there are 6 losses and something like 4 of them belong to Montana. I'd have to double check the other threads but MVFC (and Big Sky/SLC probably) teams are being eliminated in the first two rounds by other conference mates more than other conferences. It'd be nice to be fed an NEC, MEAC (back when they participated), Big South, etc.. team a bit more.


I completely understand the reasoning behind regularization, but it's been taken/is too far. The money is an issue, but by taking home games away from programs like UNI (who draws well for non-thanksgiving games), South Dakota State, SHSU, McNeese State, etc... unless they are seeded and having teams with smaller fan bases host simply because of how regionalization forced it to go might end up "costing" as much as was saved. SDSU was easily draw 16-19K in their new stadium for a playoff game. You don't think the NCAA would benefit from them having a home game over *INSERT PL/SoCon/Big South* team that would draw a quarter of that? Doesn't matter. SDSU will never not play NDSU, Montana, UNI early in the playoffs. They also won't out bid any of them should it come to a bid situation.

[OhioHen]

As much as most of us hate the regionalization, it's still better than D-II and D-III. Those tournaments are POPULATED regionally - if the 8 best D-II teams in the country were all in the southeast, then #8 in the COUNTRY doesn't even make the field (currently 28 teams). And because of the strict regional nature, it the top 3 teams are from the same conference, in some regions that would mean that #3 in the COUNTRY doesn't make the field.

[clenz]

As much as most of us hate the regionalization, it's still better than D-II and D-III. Those tournaments are POPULATED regionally - if the 8 best D-II teams in the country were all in the southeast, then #8 in the COUNTRY doesn't even make the field (currently 28 teams). And because of the strict regional nature, it the top 3 teams are from the same conference, in some regions that would mean that #3 in the COUNTRY doesn't make the field.
Yep. I can agree with that.

The FCS playoffs are real close to "perfect". Finding a way to limit the negative effects of regionalization on the "west" is the biggest issue.

[Gangtackle11]

I would like to see a pure seeded playoff, but given the economics of it (where games have less than 5k fans attending FCS playoff games including my Villanova team) enhancing the current playoffs is the best hope.

Minimize having a majority of conference on 1 side & try to stay away from playing conference repeat games in the early rounds.

That's the best we all can hope for. If it winds up UNI -NDSU in January then so be it. Let the best teams play even if they are from east of the Mississippi sometimes. (Villanova - Delaware in 2020. Book Frisco now!)

Most of us here are on the same page about the playoffs.

[Thumper 76]

I am trying to move on. No comment. xdeadhorsex #highroad

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160607/4f56522fd05b1492f57b8242aaaff2da.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

I've only read some of this thread, but I'm wondering if anyone is questioning the premise that seems to be the foundation of the discussion:

"Early round same conference matchup games and/or repeat games in the playoffs are somehow BAD and/or UNFAIR"

I agree that it doesn't feel right...but if we look at other leagues, it certainly happens there.

In the NFL, I don't think we see same division match-ups in the 1st round, but we could in the 2nd, right? Also, we could and have seen back-to-back games between 2 teams who played each other in the final game of the regular season and then are matched up in the 1st round of the playoffs.

If we 'count' the FBS as having playoffs, aren't the Conference Championship Games, essentially, the 1st round of those playoffs? SEC Teams may be ranked #1 & #3 in the Country and play each other in the SEC Championship Game. Well, that #3 team, assuming they lose, is not moving on to the next 'round' even if they are better than the other 3 teams selected. As I don't really follow FBS, I don't know the rules, but, perhaps, it is possible for same conference teams to be matched each other in their '2nd round' or 'Semi-Finals' also.

I clearly think full-seeding of the entire field would be best, but that's obviously an economic bullet that the schools don't want to or can't bite.

Really just a thought or a question - given the absence of a completely 'fair' full seeding possibility, since the same or similar situations occur in the NFL and FBS, is it really 'wrong' for the FCS to have same conference teams playing each other early in the Playoffs? I don't know. What say y'all?

[Daytripper]

I've only read some of this thread, but I'm wondering if anyone is questioning the premise that seems to be the foundation of the discussion:

"Early round same conference matchup games and/or repeat games in the playoffs are somehow BAD and/or UNFAIR"

I agree that it doesn't feel right...but if we look at other leagues, it certainly happens there.

In the NFL, I don't think we see same division match-ups in the 1st round, but we could in the 2nd, right? Also, we could and have seen back-to-back games between 2 teams who played each other in the final game of the regular season and then are matched up in the 1st round of the playoffs.

If we 'count' the FBS as having playoffs, aren't the Conference Championship Games, essentially, the 1st round of those playoffs? SEC Teams may be ranked #1 & #3 in the Country and play each other in the SEC Championship Game. Well, that #3 team, assuming they lose, is not moving on to the next 'round' even if they are better than the other 3 teams selected. As I don't really follow FBS, I don't know the rules, but, perhaps, it is possible for same conference teams to be matched each other in their '2nd round' or 'Semi-Finals' also.

I clearly think full-seeding of the entire field would be best, but that's obviously an economic bullet that the schools don't want to or can't bite.

Really just a thought or a question - given the absence of a completely 'fair' full seeding possibility, since the same or similar situations occur in the NFL and FBS, is it really 'wrong' for the FCS to have same conference teams playing each other early in the Playoffs? I don't know. What say y'all?


You make too much sense...GTFOOH!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I've only read some of this thread, but I'm wondering if anyone is questioning the premise that seems to be the foundation of the discussion:

"Early round same conference matchup games and/or repeat games in the playoffs are somehow BAD and/or UNFAIR"

I agree that it doesn't feel right...but if we look at other leagues, it certainly happens there.

In the NFL, I don't think we see same division match-ups in the 1st round, but we could in the 2nd, right? Also, we could and have seen back-to-back games between 2 teams who played each other in the final game of the regular season and then are matched up in the 1st round of the playoffs.

If we 'count' the FBS as having playoffs, aren't the Conference Championship Games, essentially, the 1st round of those playoffs? SEC Teams may be ranked #1 & #3 in the Country and play each other in the SEC Championship Game. Well, that #3 team, assuming they lose, is not moving on to the next 'round' even if they are better than the other 3 teams selected. As I don't really follow FBS, I don't know the rules, but, perhaps, it is possible for same conference teams to be matched each other in their '2nd round' or 'Semi-Finals' also.

I clearly think full-seeding of the entire field would be best, but that's obviously an economic bullet that the schools don't want to or can't bite.

Really just a thought or a question - given the absence of a completely 'fair' full seeding possibility, since the same or similar situations occur in the NFL and FBS, is it really 'wrong' for the FCS to have same conference teams playing each other early in the Playoffs? I don't know. What say y'all?

I agree with you. I don't think it is gonna solve all but it gives some leeway. The ability for the SC to move one team, under certain circumstances, to try and provide a slightly better overall product is all this is. Will it be better overall? If it allows us to see an early round matchup that we would not normally get and possibly make sure there is some real tests on both sides for top teams...I say good move.

[Gangtackle11]

If it allows us to see an early round matchup that we would not normally get and possibly make sure there is some real tests on both sides for top teams...I say good move.

Let's not forget that a decade ago the FCS landscape was dominated by teams east of the MVFC.

I concede the past 5 years or so to be MVFC dominant, but the best CAA teams vs. the best of the rest not located in Fargo, ND is inconclusive at best. NDSU dominance tips the scales for sure, but I don't think the top of the CAA has to run away from the likes of any team not named Bison.

Wasn't too long ago that the championship games were dominated by CAA teams. Enjoy the recent rise of success. NDSU is the FCS dragon that hasn't been slayed.

I know the OOC chart will come out to show the MVFC dominance against the Big Sky, etc., but sans a handful of CAA encounters outside of NDSU its inconsequential to us from Durham, NH to Williamsburg, Va.

I think all of us rooting for competitive CAA teams would welcome the matchups against UNI, ISUr, SDSU, etc.

Let's hope the FCS playoffs can bring a matchup or 2 each year to settle this perceived MVFC dominance thing where it counts. On the field.

Let the MVFC zealots begin the stoning,

[Thumper 76]

Let's not forget that a decade ago the FCS landscape was dominated by teams east of the MVFC.

I concede the past 5 years or so to be MVFC dominant, but the best CAA teams vs. the best of the rest not located in Fargo, ND is inconclusive at best. NDSU dominance tips the scales for sure, but I don't think the top of the CAA has to run away from the likes of any team not named Bison.

Wasn't too long ago that the championship games were dominated by CAA teams. Enjoy the recent rise of success. NDSU is the FCS dragon that hasn't been slayed.

I know the OOC chart will come out to show the MVFC dominance against the Big Sky, etc., but sans a handful of CAA encounters outside of NDSU its inconsequential to us from Durham, NH to Williamsburg, Va.

I think all of us rooting for competitive CAA teams would welcome the matchups against UNI, ISUr, SDSU, etc.

Let's hope the FCS playoffs can bring a matchup or 2 each year to settle this perceived MVFC dominance thing where it counts. On the field.

Let the MVFC zealots begin the stoning,

Or some OOC games could get scheduled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clenz]

Let's not forget that a decade ago the FCS landscape was dominated by teams east of the MVFC.

I concede the past 5 years or so to be MVFC dominant, but the best CAA teams vs. the best of the rest not located in Fargo, ND is inconclusive at best. NDSU dominance tips the scales for sure, but I don't think the top of the CAA has to run away from the likes of any team not named Bison.

Wasn't too long ago that the championship games were dominated by CAA teams. Enjoy the recent rise of success. NDSU is the FCS dragon that hasn't been slayed.

I know the OOC chart will come out to show the MVFC dominance against the Big Sky, etc., but sans a handful of CAA encounters outside of NDSU its inconsequential to us from Durham, NH to Williamsburg, Va.

I think all of us rooting for competitive CAA teams would welcome the matchups against UNI, ISUr, SDSU, etc.

Let's hope the FCS playoffs can bring a matchup or 2 each year to settle this perceived MVFC dominance thing where it counts. On the field.

Let the MVFC zealots begin the stoning,

You know, you eastern teams can leave a 3 state radius and play non PL, NEC, Big South teams OOC.

I'm sure SDSU and UNI would be glad to take your calls.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Let's not forget that a decade ago the FCS landscape was dominated by teams east of the MVFC.

I concede the past 5 years or so to be MVFC dominant, but the best CAA teams vs. the best of the rest not located in Fargo, ND is inconclusive at best. NDSU dominance tips the scales for sure, but I don't think the top of the CAA has to run away from the likes of any team not named Bison.

Wasn't too long ago that the championship games were dominated by CAA teams. Enjoy the recent rise of success. NDSU is the FCS dragon that hasn't been slayed.

I know the OOC chart will come out to show the MVFC dominance against the Big Sky, etc., but sans a handful of CAA encounters outside of NDSU its inconsequential to us from Durham, NH to Williamsburg, Va.

I think all of us rooting for competitive CAA teams would welcome the matchups against UNI, ISUr, SDSU, etc.

Let's hope the FCS playoffs can bring a matchup or 2 each year to settle this perceived MVFC dominance thing where it counts. On the field.

Let the MVFC zealots begin the stoning,

I think you went down a path I was not leading you down, or at least did not mean to lead you down. I am specifically talking about ANY conference. The Big Sky, CAA, MVFC, it does not matter and I am not singling out NDSU for anything at all. My comments are actually formed in the years of the CAA getting 4 and 5 in and with that it seemed like we saw a bit more intermingling of the East with at least the middle of the country. The MVFC, The SLC, & The BSC see each other and that is it until the final four basically. I'd like to see a CAA team back in Missoula someday as having them come in 2007 and earlier were always big and fun times.

Everything I've said in this thread has very little to do with NDSU or the MVFC. It just so happens that right now it is the conference being talked about but this is better for any of the conferences that might get 4 in. It is not about the MVFC.

[OhioHen]

In the NFL, I don't think we see same division match-ups in the 1st round, but we could in the 2nd, right? Also, we could and have seen back-to-back games between 2 teams who played each other in the final game of the regular season and then are matched up in the 1st round of the playoffs.



Same division teams can play each other on the first weekend of the NFL playoffs. If the division champ doesn't have a bye, they can certainly be matched up with a wild card from the same division. Last season, if Green Bay had beaten Minnesota in week 17, the wild card round would have been Vikings at Packers - a division matchup AND back-to-back weeks.

[BisonTru]

I think all of us rooting for competitive CAA teams would welcome the matchups against UNI, ISUr, SDSU, etc.



Nobody wants to play us. :(

If we walk away with our two OOC FCS games and beat Iowa, I don't think any team in FBS or FCS land is going to take our phone calls anymore.

[OhioHen]

A thought that doesn't seem to have been touched on fully, here or otherwise - within the constraints of regionalization, why hasn't the approach been tried to make the split through the quarterfinals rather than through the semifinals. If the "left half" and "right half" of the bracket became the "top half" and "bottom half," then the five MVFC teams could have been regionalized through the first three rounds and still had the possibility of two teams in the finals.

I know this flies in the face of 1-4 and 2-3 seeds being on the same "side" of the bracket, but look no further than professional tennis and you'll see the scenario for most Grand Slam tournaments where the projected semifinal matchups are 1-3 and 2-4.

[Gangtackle11]

You know, you eastern teams can leave a 3 state radius and play non PL, NEC, Big South teams OOC.

I'm sure SDSU and UNI would be glad to take your calls.

Cheap flights to Philly, Baltimore, Boston, & probably Richmond too. Personally, I'd love the challenge of playing some of the West teams.

The point is at the FCS level where expenses are a factor that east teams don't have to leave our geographic area.

Ill give you a call when I become AD @ Nova until then it's a argument that neither side sans NDSU has enough substantive information to boast. My original point.

That's all.

[BisonTru]

A thought that doesn't seem to have been touched on fully, here or otherwise - within the constraints of regionalization, why hasn't the approach been tried to make the split through the quarterfinals rather than through the semifinals. If the "left half" and "right half" of the bracket became the "top half" and "bottom half," then the five MVFC teams could have been regionalized through the first three rounds and still had the possibility of two teams in the finals.

I know this flies in the face of 1-4 and 2-3 seeds being on the same "side" of the bracket, but look no further than professional tennis and you'll see the scenario for most Grand Slam tournaments where the projected semifinal matchups are 1-3 and 2-4.

I'm not following. Are you suggesting that the 1 and 3 seeds should be on the same side? Or that the committee should be able to swap a quarter of the bracket with another to avoid high ranking same conference matchups?

[IBleedYellow]

Cheap flights to Philly, Baltimore, Boston, & probably Richmond too. Personally, I'd love the challenge of playing some of the West teams.

The point is at the FCS level where expenses are a factor that east teams don't have to leave our geographic area.

Ill give you a call when I become AD @ Nova until then it's a argument that neither side sans NDSU has enough substantive information to boast. My original point.

That's all.

Whatever everyone is currently doing for scheduling, they should continue doing exactly that.

It's clearly working well for some of us.

[RootinFerDukes]

You know, you eastern teams can leave a 3 state radius and play non PL, NEC, Big South teams OOC.

I'm sure SDSU and UNI would be glad to take your calls.

You all would have to agree to a home and home. Recent rumors from JMU state we went to ndsu for a home and home and they only wanted us to come to Fargo. Our AD didn't take that offer.

[BisonTru]

You all would have to agree to a home and home. Recent rumors from JMU state we went to ndsu for a home and home and they only wanted us to come to Fargo. Our AD didn't take that offer.

That's one way to spin it.

Or NDSU approached a bunch of FCS playoff teams to come to Fargo for a guarantee, the FCS kickoff game televised on ESPN.

Thanks for picking up the phone. That's more of a response than we got from most. Nonetheless we got a taker.

[RootinFerDukes]

That's one way to spin it.

Or NDSU approached a bunch of FCS playoff teams to come to Fargo for a guarantee, the FCS kickoff game televised on ESPN.

Thanks for picking up the phone. That's more of a response than we got from most. Nonetheless we got a taker.

It's not spin that we wanted a return game and it wasn't worked out. You're not a P5 program paying hundreds of thousands to the visitor. You have to meet both ways to schedule games.
Many of our fans are pissed we turned down a one and done that would be on ESPN.

[clenz]

UNI has called half the eastern sea board over the last decade. Those that actually returned the call told Dannen they wanted a 2-1 with both home games up front with a low buy out

So, the demands from the east are far more ridiculous than over in the west

[BisonTru]

It's not spin that we wanted a return game and it wasn't worked out. You're not a P5 program paying hundreds of thousands to the visitor. You have to meet both ways to schedule games.
Many of our fans are pissed we turned down a one and done that would be on ESPN.

You spun it that JMU approached NDSU asking to do a home and home and NDSU said they were only interested in a one and done. You left out that it was the kickoff game on ESPN.

Anyway, like I said thanks for the counter that was more of a response than we got from most. Congrats to Chuck South.

NDSU has scheduled home and homes in the past and we will in the future, but ideally we want 6 home games. With FBS schools black balling us, we will most likely look to do more home and homes with FCS playoff caliber teams.

[clenz]

You spun it that JMU approached NDSU asking to do a home and home and NDSU said they were only interested in a one and done. You left out that it was the kickoff game on ESPN.

Anyway, like I said thanks for the counter that was more of a response than we got from most. Congrats to Chuck South.

NDSU has scheduled home and homes in the past and we will in the future, but ideally we want 6 home games. With FBS schools black balling us, we will most likely look to do more home and homes with FCS playoff caliber teams.

It's fun to hear eastern fans say UNI, NDSU, SDSU, Montana, EWU, etc... Demand too much yet they all set H/H together. The MVFC schools to go to Arizona, Texas, California, Eric... For OPc set ups

I don't think it's the western schools that are the issue.

In fact I know first hand that's not the case.

[Herder]

I've only read some of this thread, but I'm wondering if anyone is questioning the premise that seems to be the foundation of the discussion:

"Early round same conference matchup games and/or repeat games in the playoffs are somehow BAD and/or UNFAIR"

I agree that it doesn't feel right...but if we look at other leagues, it certainly happens there.

In the NFL, I don't think we see same division match-ups in the 1st round, but we could in the 2nd, right? Also, we could and have seen back-to-back games between 2 teams who played each other in the final game of the regular season and then are matched up in the 1st round of the playoffs.

If we 'count' the FBS as having playoffs, aren't the Conference Championship Games, essentially, the 1st round of those playoffs? SEC Teams may be ranked #1 & #3 in the Country and play each other in the SEC Championship Game. Well, that #3 team, assuming they lose, is not moving on to the next 'round' even if they are better than the other 3 teams selected. As I don't really follow FBS, I don't know the rules, but, perhaps, it is possible for same conference teams to be matched each other in their '2nd round' or 'Semi-Finals' also.

I clearly think full-seeding of the entire field would be best, but that's obviously an economic bullet that the schools don't want to or can't bite.

Really just a thought or a question - given the absence of a completely 'fair' full seeding possibility, since the same or similar situations occur in the NFL and FBS, is it really 'wrong' for the FCS to have same conference teams playing each other early in the Playoffs? I don't know. What say y'all?

in the nfl and fbs, there is very specific, defined criteria that ranks teams 1-6, and 1-4. If two conference teams in the nfl play each other, it is not questioned or a problem at all. It's a big difference compared to the hair brained "discretion" of the FCS selection committee. Did you see what the selection did to ndsu and the Mvfc last year? Everything possible to trip up 1 team and 1 conference. It was shameful

[RootinFerDukes]

Well if JMU has demanded 2 for 1s from Mvfc schools, then shame on us. Our admin doesn't publicly comment often on scheduling that doesn't see the light of day. He just admitted the ndsu missed opportunity in a statement the other day after fans heard the rumor and were bombarding the department with complaints apparently.
We just agreed to a home and home with Norfolk state. Withers picked that one and then left:

[BisonTru]

in the nfl and fbs, there is very specific, defined criteria that ranks teams 1-6, and 1-4. If two conference teams in the nfl play each other, it is not questioned or a problem at all. It's a big difference compared to the hair brained "discretion" of the FCS selection committee. Did you see what the selection did to ndsu and the Mvfc last year? Everything possible to trip up 1 team and 1 conference. It was shameful

Or they followed the process laid out by the NCAA and ranked ISU and NDSU above McNeese St, which I tend to agree with. After that the stage was set with the rules of regionalization.

If you want to be upset with somebody blame the NCAA, but they don't care. They have rules to restrict costs and they also have the checkbook.

[clenz]

Well if JMU has demanded 2 for 1s from Mvfc schools, then shame on us. Our admin doesn't publicly comment often on scheduling that doesn't see the light of day. He just admitted the ndsu missed opportunity in a statement the other day after fans heard the rumor and were bombarding the department with complaints apparently.
We just agreed to a home and home with Norfolk state. Withers picked that one and then left:

I don't know what the hold with JMU was but I have direct knowledge of attempts made with 7 different CAA/SoCon programs between 08 and 12 that were met with demands they knew we'd never agree too so we were the bad guy should it ever become public. One CAA program answered with "No. Why would we agree to a game/series where we fly half way across the country to get beat and then play the same team and get beat at home?".

I wish I was making that up.

Occasionally dates were and issue but eastern schools tended to leave it at "that day doesn't work so no" *click*

SLC and Big Sky teams are willing to work to make it happen

[BisonFan02]

You all would have to agree to a home and home. Recent rumors from JMU state we went to ndsu for a home and home and they only wanted us to come to Fargo. Our AD didn't take that offer.

NDSU's schedule model:

6 home games....no less

4 home in conference/4 away

11 game season out of conference:

2 OOC home (either guarantee game or home end of home/home)
1 FBS game or Away end of Home/Home with FCS team (see Montana, Weber State, EWU, etc)

12 game season out of conference:

2 OOC home (either guarantee game or home end of home/home)
1 FBS game (or 2 OOC away...probably not)
1 OOC away end of home/home with FCS team



Its really not complicated. I'm assuming the years didn't work/line up for either NDSU or JMU. **** happens.

[clenz]

NDSU's schedule model:

6 home games....no less

4 home in conference/4 away

11 game season out of conference:

2 OOC home (either guarantee game or home end of home/home)
1 FBS game or Away end of Home/Home with FCS team (see Montana, Weber State, EWU, etc)

12 game season out of conference:

2 OOC home (either guarantee game or home end of home/home)
1 FBS game (or 2 OOC away...probably not)
1 OOC away end of home/home with FCS team



Its really not complicated. I'm assuming the years didn't work/line up for either NDSU or JMU. **** happens.

UNIs is anyone anywhere. It is in basketball too. IOW one has to actively make it not work for it to not work for UNi

[BisonFan02]

UNIs is anyone anywhere. It is in basketball too. IOW one has to actively make it not work for it to not work for UNi

Pretty much ditto. NDSU tries to keep the FBS games regional (upper midwest) for the fans/recruits, but the Bison cannot be very picky anymore if they want those games.

FCS home/home matchups have been largely Big Sky, but that isn't because they are not trying anywhere else.

[RootinFerDukes]

Here's the statement from JMU's AD the other day. The ndsu game on ESPN rumor broke out and this response was put out to try and calm the angry masses.

http://jmusports.com/news/2016/5/13/administration-bourne-dialogue-football-scheduling.aspx

[Twentysix]

Here's the statement from JMU's AD the other day. The ndsu game on ESPN rumor broke out and this response was put out to try and calm the angry masses.

http://jmusports.com/news/2016/5/13/administration-bourne-dialogue-football-scheduling.aspx

JMU probably wouldn't wait until 2018 for the return. We schedule H/H with schools like Weber St, there is no reason we wouldn't want one from JMU. The only reason the deal wouldn't work out is because JMU wouldn't take a H/H where the return isn't consecutive seasons (or the game @JMU was too long in the future).

Our OOC away game for 2017 is spent already.

http://www.gobison.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=213&path=football

[BisonFan02]

Here's the statement from JMU's AD the other day. The ndsu game on ESPN rumor broke out and this response was put out to try and calm the angry masses.

http://jmusports.com/news/2016/5/13/administration-bourne-dialogue-football-scheduling.aspx


As an example, we had significant discussions with North Dakota State about playing a season kickoff game in Fargo this season. Ultimately, both schools had concern about the timing of playing that game this year, but those kinds of opportunities will always be evaluated as they emerge.

What the **** does that even mean? ESPN was putting the kickoff game in Fargo....timing problems THIS year? It seems to me the concern would be the return game timing to JMU or the potential requirement of it being a guarantee game otherwise. Past that...I have no ****ing idea what Bourne is talking about.

[RootinFerDukes]

JMU probably wouldn't wait until 2018 for the return. We schedule H/H with schools like Weber St, there is no reason we wouldn't want one from JMU. The only reason the deal wouldn't work out is because JMU wouldn't take a H/H where the return isn't consecutive seasons (or the game @JMU was too long in the future).

Our OOC away game for 2017 is spent already.

http://www.gobison.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=213&path=football

It's all message board rumor, but some say Jeff Bourne didn't want to make a new HC face NDSU on the road in his first game. I mean it'll be tough regardless of when we face you or where we face you. JMU's schedule was already set for 2016 with cupcake games scheduled from back in the Mickey Matthews era. If the buyout is 500k just to make it a five home game season and have a tough road game that will likely be a loss, yeah that hurts our playoff chances and is the money there for the home game buyout and road travel? It would've been a financial loss. Would the ESPN game as a road team been worth the "investment" with those losses?

Fans like to sit there on a message board and say "any team, any time. I don't care about the playoffs or championships. I want compelling football games while we're stuck in fcs". Those same people will complain about how mismanaged everything was to miss the playoffs with only 6 or 7 wins. You really can't win in their minds.

It sounds like both sides couldn't come to agreement on a variety of issues at the last minute. JMU probably wanted a return game, as they should have, but it wouldn't happen until at least 2018 it seems. I hope they keep talking for 2018 and later.

[BisonFan02]

It's all message board rumor, but some say Jeff Bourne didn't want to make a new HC face NDSU on the road in his first game. I mean it'll be tough regardless of when we face you or where we face you. JMU's schedule was already set for 2016 with cupcake games scheduled from back in the Mickey Matthews era. If the buyout is 500k just to make it a five home game season and have a tough road game that will likely be a loss, yeah that hurts our playoff chances and is the money there for the home game buyout and road travel? It would've been a financial loss. Would the ESPN game as a road team been worth the "investment" with those losses?

Fans like to sit there on a message board and say "any team, any time. I don't care about the playoffs or championships. I want compelling football games while we're stuck in fcs". Those same people will complain about how mismanaged everything was to miss the playoffs with only 6 or 7 wins. You really can't win in their minds.

It sounds like both sides couldn't come to agreement on a variety of issues at the last minute. JMU probably wanted a return game, as they should have, but it wouldn't happen until at least 2018 it seems. I hope they keep talking for 2018 and later.

Then what is this "both schools" nonsense about this year in Bourne's "Dear John" letter? I have a feeling NDSU didn't give a **** considering CSU is coming to Fargo and was a good playoff team last year. It is either the return game timing from NDSU, the potential for it being only a single guarantee game, or JMU ducked the Bison.

More from his note:




We want to positon ourselves to make a run at a FCS championship. In the current structure, that means securing eight wins to be in the best position to earn a national seed, first-round bye and home playoff games. The first question I ask when I evaluate a schedule is "how does this schedule prepare us to make the FCS Playoffs?"



6 home games, FBS payday, and winnable schedule. 3 strikes and JMU is out.

[RootinFerDukes]

The return game would've had to have been in 2018, as our home schedule is already full for 2017, as was our 2016 schedule without a buyout of a home game. There's your timing issue. The last minute nature of the scheduling made it tough when you're already scheduled for other games with contracts.

If you have an FBS game in 2018, that would've meant only five home games for the Bison and that's likely where the disagreement was. Then you're talking about a return game in 2019 or later.

It was probably that plus the only other option being a one game guarantee this year in Fargo and given our defensive performance the past two or three years, it would've been ugly for the purple and gold. Is national tv worth it to just get overmatched? Some would say so.

[Twentysix]

The return game would've had to have been in 2018, as our home schedule is already full for 2017, as was our 2016 schedule without a buyout of a home game. There's your timing issue. The last minute nature of the scheduling made it tough when you're already scheduled for other games with contracts.

If you have an FBS game in 2018, that would've meant only five home games for the Bison and that's likely where the disagreement was. Then you're talking about a return game in 2019 or later.

It was probably that plus the only other option being a one game guarantee this year in Fargo and given our defensive performance the past two or three years, it would've been ugly for the purple and gold. Is national tv worth it to just get overmatched? Some would say so.

I believe we have 0 OOC scheduled for 2018.

[IBleedYellow]

NDSU of clearly in the wrong here.

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[BisonFan02]

The return game would've had to have been in 2018, as our home schedule is already full for 2017, as was our 2016 schedule without a buyout of a home game. There's your timing issue. The last minute nature of the scheduling made it tough when you're already scheduled for other games with contracts.

If you have an FBS game in 2018, that would've meant only five home games for the Bison and that's likely where the disagreement was. Then you're talking about a return game in 2019 or later.

It was probably that plus the only other option being a one game guarantee this year in Fargo and given our defensive performance the past two or three years, it would've been ugly for the purple and gold. Is national tv worth it to just get overmatched? Some would say so.

NDSU OOC schedules:

2016:

CSU
EWU
Iowa (road)

2017:

EWU (road)
RMU
Open (home to fill 6 games)

2018:

Blank....TBD

2019:

UND
Open (home)
Open (road)

2020:

Oregon (road)
Open (home)
Open (home)

There looks like room for road dates in 2018 and 2019 (assuming no FBS games and I don't remember which years would be 12 game seasons)

Home needs in 2017, two in 2018, 1 in 2019, and two in 2020. I would expect the road openings to be used as road ends of home/homes...(home in 2017/road in 2018, and road 2019/home 2020 for example) There will need to be a few guarantee games to fill the dates where a H/H doesn't get the job done....that problem would be exasperated if more FBS agreements are signed.

[Twentysix]

NDSU OOC schedules:

2016:

CSU
EWU
Iowa (road)

2017:

EWU (road)
RMU
Open (home to fill 6 games)

2018:

Blank....TBD

2019:

UND
Open (home)
Open (road)

2020:

Oregon (road)
Open (home)
Open (home)

There looks like room for road dates in 2018 and 2019 (assuming no FBS games and I don't remember which years would be 12 game seasons)

Home needs in 2017, two in 2018, 1 in 2019, and two in 2020. I would expect the road openings to be used as road ends of home/homes...(home in 2017/road in 2018, and road 2019/home 2020 for example) There will need to be a few guarantee games to fill the dates where a H/H doesn't get the job done....that problem would be exasperated if more FBS agreements are signed.

I kind of doubt the ability of NDSU to get any FBS games...

We will probably **** stomp the G5 teams that would play us, and the P5s won't or can't.

If NDSU gets an FBS game it will be vs like Mizzou or Oklahoma or something.

[BisonTru]

(assuming no FBS games and I don't remember which years would be 12 game seasons)

.

2019 is the 12 game year, so we could throw an extra away game into that season.

[BisonFan02]

2019 is the 12 game year, so we could throw an extra away game into that season.

That would take care of another H/H need for either 2018 or 2020.

[BisonFan02]

I kind of doubt the ability of NDSU to get any FBS games...

We will probably **** stomp the G5 teams that would play us, and the P5s won't or can't.

If NDSU gets an FBS game it will be vs like Mizzou or Oklahoma or something.

I would agree....plus there is ZERO benefit of playing a G5 team. Low paycheck and it ****s up a potential slot for a H/H game. I would much rather see teams like Montana, EWU, and frankly JMU before any of them as "road game paychecks".

[BisonTru]

I would agree....plus there is ZERO benefit of playing a G5 team. Low paycheck and it ****s up a potential slot for a H/H game. I would much rather see teams like Montana, EWU, and frankly JMU before any of them as "road game paychecks".

G5 teams aren't going to schedule us. We're taking down P5 teams. The G5's can collect million dollar guarantees for guaranteed loses to big time P5s. Why pay someone to come in for a loss.

[FUBeAR]

in the nfl and fbs, there is very specific, defined criteria that ranks teams 1-6, and 1-4. If two conference teams in the nfl play each other, it is not questioned or a problem at all. It's a big difference compared to the hair brained "discretion" of the FCS selection committee. Did you see what the selection did to ndsu and the Mvfc last year? Everything possible to trip up 1 team and 1 conference. It was shameful

Good point....but the FBS, essentially, 're-seeds' after the 1st round games (the Conference Championships).

Wonder if that would help in FCS - employing a 'dynamic' bracket.

In other words, something like this - Seed 1-24, then regionalize using as much common (uncommon?) sense as possible, matching highest vs. lowest (#9 - #24) with some mileage algorithm built-in. That sense/algorithm might have, for example, #9 Mercer play #23 Presbyterian, instead of #24 San Diego, who would instead play #10 Eastern Washington...and so on. Then, on Sat night, re-seed 1-16 after the 1st Round (including re-seeding the 1st round bye teams) and apply the same sense/algorithm regionalization, perhaps with an expanded control limit on the miles variable...and repeat each Sat. night right up thru the Final 4. Radical? Maybe. Some logistics challenges? Not much difference. More oppty's for fans to urinate and moan about the unfairness of the committee? Yep...but ain't that part of the fun?

[Bisonoline]

I would agree....plus there is ZERO benefit of playing a G5 team. Low paycheck and it ****s up a potential slot for a H/H game. I would much rather see teams like Montana, EWU, and frankly JMU before any of them as "road game paychecks".

Yeah but you know some of our fans get a big chubby when it comes to FBS games. They dont care who it is as long as they can travel to some exotic place like Toledo or Ipsilanti. :D

[JSUSoutherner]

Yeah but you know some of our fans get a big chubby when it comes to FBS games. They dont care who it is as long as they can travel to some exotic place like Toledo or Ipsilanti. :D
Having lived for 4 years in Toledo I can confirm it is the opposite of exotic. That place blows. xnodx And not in the way that most "big chubbies" like. :D

[OhioHen]

I'm not following. Are you suggesting that the 1 and 3 seeds should be on the same side? Or that the committee should be able to swap a quarter of the bracket with another to avoid high ranking same conference matchups?

Not suggesting they SHOULD be on the same side, just pointing out that there is precedent in professional sports. Or adjust the seeds, as some have suggested, in order to reduce the likelihood of conference matchups - just like the adjustments made by the NCAA basketball committee to spread conferences across the regions. It is not uncommon for an adjustment to be made swapping a 5 and a 6 to guarantee that two teams from the same conference can't meet before the regional final.

2015 official rank:
1 - JSU
2 - ISUr
3 - NDSU
4 - MSU

adjustment to "spread the wealth"
1 - JSU
2 - ISUr
3 - MSU
4 - NDSU

You can then still regionalize within the quarter brackets, but avoid all five MVFC (in this case) teams on one side of the bracket.

[Bisonator]

UNIs is anyone anywhere. It is in basketball too. IOW one has to actively make it not work for it to not work for UNi

Cough, bull****, cough...

[BisonFan02]

Cough, bull****, cough...

xlolx Yeah...I was gonna leave that one alone. #buttRPI

[clenz]

Yeah...I was gonna leave that one alone. #buttRPI
Sorry...we are busy filling our schedule with Iowa State, Iowa, North Carolina (3 games), Xavier (H/H), Louisville (twice), New Mexico (3 or 4 games), BYU, MVC/MWC Challenge, Stephen F Austin (twice), Richmond (twice), George Mason (3 or 4 times), VCU (three times), Maryland, Virginia, Memphis, Stanford, St Mary's (twice), Indiana, etc... the last 5 years or so.

UNI has also played Iona, South Dakota State, North Dakota (4 times), Northern Colorado (twice), Rice, ODU (3 times), Milwaukee, Toledo, Ohio, LaSalle, Savannah State, Morgan State, North Florida, Virginia Tech, Northwestern, Denver (twice), North Texas, Hawaii, Washington State...

It's not like UNI is running from anyone.

UNI has done H/H with VCU, Xavier, UNC, St Mary's, SFA, Richmond, ODU, GMU, etc... UNI is willing to work with anyone to fill a schedule.

If UNI was scheduling only MEAC, SWAC, NEC, etc... teams OOC you guys would have a point. UNI isn't going to turn down tournaments and series with teams like the ones listed above. UNI isn't ducking NDSU...nice try though

Last season UNI played at UND on 11/28. On 11/30 they hosted North Texas. UNI didn't play another home game until 12/30...7 games were played during that stretch ranging from 2 games in Virginia, to New Mexico to Hawaii. UNI isn't ducking ****.

[BisonFan02]

Sorry...we are busy filling our schedule with Iowa State, Iowa, North Carolina (3 games), Xavier (H/H), Louisville (twice), New Mexico (3 or 4 games), BYU, MVC/MWC Challenge, Stephen F Austin (twice), Richmond (twice), George Mason (3 or 4 times), VCU (three times), Maryland, Virginia, Memphis, Stanford, St Mary's (twice), Indiana, etc... the last 5 years or so.

UNI has also played Iona, South Dakota State, North Dakota (4 times), Northern Colorado (twice), Rice, ODU (3 times), Milwaukee, Toledo, Ohio, LaSalle, Savannah State, Morgan State, North Florida, Virginia Tech, Northwestern, Denver (twice), North Texas, Hawaii, Washington State...

It's not like UNI is running from anyone.

UNI has done H/H with VCU, Xavier, UNC, St Mary's, SFA, Richmond, ODU, GMU, etc... UNI is willing to work with anyone to fill a schedule.

If UNI was scheduling only MEAC, SWAC, NEC, etc... teams OOC you guys would have a point. UNI isn't going to turn down tournaments and series with teams like the ones listed above. UNI isn't ducking NDSU...nice try though

Last season UNI played at UND on 11/28. On 11/30 they hosted North Texas. UNI didn't play another home game until 12/30...7 games were played during that stretch ranging from 2 games in Virginia, to New Mexico to Hawaii. UNI isn't ducking ****.

http://i.makeagif.com/media/8-24-2015/qjcsmE.gif

Anywhere....anytime. :D


EDIT: On a related note, I'm sure glad that MVFC relationship with MVC schools has built an avenue for non-football OOC scheduling.... xthumbsupx

[Bisonator]

Sorry...we are busy filling our schedule with Iowa State, Iowa, North Carolina (3 games), Xavier (H/H), Louisville (twice), New Mexico (3 or 4 games), BYU, MVC/MWC Challenge, Stephen F Austin (twice), Richmond (twice), George Mason (3 or 4 times), VCU (three times), Maryland, Virginia, Memphis, Stanford, St Mary's (twice), Indiana, etc... the last 5 years or so.

UNI has also played Iona, South Dakota State, North Dakota (4 times), Northern Colorado (twice), Rice, ODU (3 times), Milwaukee, Toledo, Ohio, LaSalle, Savannah State, Morgan State, North Florida, Virginia Tech, Northwestern, Denver (twice), North Texas, Hawaii, Washington State...

It's not like UNI is running from anyone.

UNI has done H/H with VCU, Xavier, UNC, St Mary's, SFA, Richmond, ODU, GMU, etc... UNI is willing to work with anyone to fill a schedule.

If UNI was scheduling only MEAC, SWAC, NEC, etc... teams OOC you guys would have a point. UNI isn't going to turn down tournaments and series with teams like the ones listed above. UNI isn't ducking NDSU...nice try though

Last season UNI played at UND on 11/28. On 11/30 they hosted North Texas. UNI didn't play another home game until 12/30...7 games were played during that stretch ranging from 2 games in Virginia, to New Mexico to Hawaii. UNI isn't ducking ****.

Sorry I keep forgetting UNI is gods gift to BB. Obviously they got no time for a silly H/H with their MVFC overlords.:D

[clenz]

Maybe it's NDSU that's running

NDSU OOC schedule last year

UC Davis
Illinois
something called Valley City State
Montana
North Carolina A&T
Iowa State (how much did they pay you)
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
North Dakota
Montana State
Idaho State
something called UT Rio Grande Valley
Utah State
apparently there's a thing called Northland College


The year before
Texas - part of a tournament
Iowa - part of a tournament
Kennesaw State
Hampton
Minnesota-Crookston
Montana State
Southern Miss
Montana
North Dakota
Akron
Kent State
Alcorn State
Northland College


Maybe it's NDSU that isn't making the call.

[BisonFan02]

Maybe it's NDSU that's running

NDSU OOC schedule last year

UC Davis
Illinois
something called Valley City State
Montana
North Carolina A&T
Iowa State (how much did they pay you)
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
North Dakota
Montana State
Idaho State
something called UT Rio Grande Valley
Utah State
apparently there's a thing called Northland College


The year before
Texas - part of a tournament
Iowa - part of a tournament
Kennesaw State
Hampton
Minnesota-Crookston
Montana State
Southern Miss
Montana
North Dakota
Akron
Kent State
Alcorn State
Northland College


Maybe it's NDSU that isn't making the call.

http://i.imgur.com/Ufbr5ej.gif?noredirect


No MVC teams.....think NDSU intentionally likes to make their programs nomads during the year? I kinda doubt it.

[Bisonator]

Maybe it's NDSU that's running

NDSU OOC schedule last year

UC Davis
Illinois
something called Valley City State
Montana
North Carolina A&T
Iowa State (how much did they pay you)
Arkansas State
Southern Miss
North Dakota
Montana State
Idaho State
something called UT Rio Grande Valley
Utah State
apparently there's a thing called Northland College


The year before
Texas - part of a tournament
Iowa - part of a tournament
Kennesaw State
Hampton
Minnesota-Crookston
Montana State
Southern Miss
Montana
North Dakota
Akron
Kent State
Alcorn State
Northland College


Maybe it's NDSU that isn't making the call.
I'm sure that's it.
https://media.giphy.com/media/DFNd1yVyRjmF2/giphy.gif

[BisonTru]

Not suggesting they SHOULD be on the same side, just pointing out that there is precedent in professional sports. Or adjust the seeds, as some have suggested, in order to reduce the likelihood of conference matchups - just like the adjustments made by the NCAA basketball committee to spread conferences across the regions. It is not uncommon for an adjustment to be made swapping a 5 and a 6 to guarantee that two teams from the same conference can't meet before the regional final.

2015 official rank:
1 - JSU
2 - ISUr
3 - NDSU
4 - MSU

adjustment to "spread the wealth"
1 - JSU
2 - ISUr
3 - MSU
4 - NDSU

You can then still regionalize within the quarter brackets, but avoid all five MVFC (in this case) teams on one side of the bracket.

Not fan of this at all. Rank the top 8 the best you see fit, and don't mess with it, IMO. I would be absolutely livid if we had to travel to JSU just because the committee wanted to spread the conference out, and that is most likely what would have happened last year. The final four would have been NDSU @ JSU and UNI/SHSU vs. Richmond.

[BisonTru]

Sorry...we are busy filling our schedule with Iowa State, Iowa, North Carolina (3 games), Xavier (H/H), Louisville (twice), New Mexico (3 or 4 games), BYU, MVC/MWC Challenge, Stephen F Austin (twice), Richmond (twice), George Mason (3 or 4 times), VCU (three times), Maryland, Virginia, Memphis, Stanford, St Mary's (twice), Indiana, etc... the last 5 years or so.

UNI has also played Iona, South Dakota State, North Dakota (4 times), Northern Colorado (twice), Rice, ODU (3 times), Milwaukee, Toledo, Ohio, LaSalle, Savannah State, Morgan State, North Florida, Virginia Tech, Northwestern, Denver (twice), North Texas, Hawaii, Washington State...

It's not like UNI is running from anyone.

UNI has done H/H with VCU, Xavier, UNC, St Mary's, SFA, Richmond, ODU, GMU, etc... UNI is willing to work with anyone to fill a schedule.

If UNI was scheduling only MEAC, SWAC, NEC, etc... teams OOC you guys would have a point. UNI isn't going to turn down tournaments and series with teams like the ones listed above. UNI isn't ducking NDSU...nice try though

Last season UNI played at UND on 11/28. On 11/30 they hosted North Texas. UNI didn't play another home game until 12/30...7 games were played during that stretch ranging from 2 games in Virginia, to New Mexico to Hawaii. UNI isn't ducking ****.

Don't forget the exiting rivalry with Dubuque. xcoffeex

[clenz]

Don't forget the exiting rivalry with Dubuque. xcoffeex

Coach is a UNI alum. D3 games don't her RPI like a UMKC or MEAC would. Get that game for about 10k. Local interest.

But yeah that game against Dubuque completely cancels out Xavier, UNC, Nee Mexico, etc...

NDSU could have that game if they really wanted it is bet

[Professor Chaos]

Coach is a UNI alum. D3 games don't her RPI like a UMKC or MEAC would. Get that game for about 10k. Local interest.

But yeah that game against Dubuque completely cancels out Xavier, UNC, Nee Mexico, etc...

NDSU could have that game if they really wanted it is bet
He said it!!!!

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/The-Knights-Who-Say-Ni-movies-591185_1008_566.jpg

[Twentysix]

https://mgtvwcbd.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/4943193-round-bush.jpg?w=650

[UNIFanSince1983]

How did another thread turn into NDSU bitching they can't play UNI in basketball?

[BisonTru]

How did another thread turn into NDSU bitching they can't play UNI in basketball?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdurzphiit1qkogoeo4_250.gif

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/23/e7/2e/23e72e251b8e3a19a628a5dbceee8535.jpg

[clenz]

See...NDSU doesn't need UNI...

Then again, UNI gets a home game out of the deal...but NDSU doesn't like whoring themselves out and being nomads so they can't play at UNI

https://twitter.com/DomIzzoWDAY/status/740946710688567300

[BisonTru]

See...NDSU doesn't need UNI...

Then again, UNI gets a home game out of the deal...but NDSU doesn't like whoring themselves out and being nomads so they can't play at UNI

https://twitter.com/DomIzzoWDAY/status/740946710688567300

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/612/986/b48.gif

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Seriously fella's. Enough of the bball crap in here.

[Thumper 76]

How did another thread turn into NDSU bitching they can't play UNI in basketball?

Because Bison fans. That's why.


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[BisonFan02]

Because Bison fans. That's why.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g246/sey115/sey115084/22_zpsnlypgqav.gif

xlolx

[IBleedYellow]

Oh - are we talking football again?

Yay.

[Thumper 76]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g246/sey115/sey115084/22_zpsnlypgqav.gif

xlolx

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx well I wasn't wrong


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[Daytripper]

Ursus, would it be possible to have a #SafeSpace somewhere on AGS that is #BisonFree?

[BisonFan02]

Ursus, would it be possible to have a #SafeSpace somewhere on AGS that is #BisonFree?

Ha, **** your safe space hippie. xthumbsupx

[Daytripper]

Ha, **** your safe space hippie. xthumbsupx

https://media.giphy.com/media/rAoMu8fJ0bsZ2/giphy.gif

[SU DOG]

A little more on this subject.

http://missoulian.com/sports/college/montana/committee-recommends-avoiding-regional-fcs-playoff-pairings/article_962c082f-116a-56cc-9733-e2cfc5ef1821.html