6 MVFC playoff teams

[clenz]

It could happen according to Craig Haley

https://twitter.com/CraigHaley/status/735833878024310785



http://athlonsports.com/college-football/missouri-valley-strong-enough-6-fcs-playoff-teams

The Missouri Valley Football Conference could become the first FCS conference to have five playoff teams in three consecutive seasons in 2016. But the preeminent conference in the FCS appears strong enough to take its success to a higher level.

The MVFC could gain six playoff bids — one-quarter of the 24-team field — which would be a first.

Behind five-time reigning national champion North Dakota State, the MVFC has 18 playoffs wins over the last two years, when its playoff qualifiers have matched the FCS single-season record previously held by CAA Football. The CAA had five in both 2007 and ’08 when the field was only 16 teams deep, then again in 2011 when there were 20 qualifiers.

So the 10-team Missouri Valley would love to take the standard to a higher level.
- See more at: http://athlonsports.com/college-football/missouri-valley-strong-enough-6-fcs-playoff-teams#sthash.pA8qhguj.dpuf
The Missouri Valley Football Conference could become the first FCS conference to have five playoff teams in three consecutive seasons in 2016. But the preeminent conference in the FCS appears strong enough to take its success to a higher level.


The MVFC could gain six playoff bids — one-quarter of the 24-team field — which would be a first.


Behind five-time reigning national champion North Dakota State, the MVFC has 18 playoffs wins over the last two years, when its playoff qualifiers have matched the FCS single-season record previously held by CAA Football. The CAA had five in both 2007 and ’08 when the field was only 16 teams deep, then again in 2011 when there were 20 qualifiers.


So the 10-team Missouri Valley would love to take the standard to a higher level.
“It would take a perfect storm for any conference to exceed five playoff teams in a single season,” said Missouri Valley associate commissioner Mike Kern, “but if it were to happen, the MVFC is poised to be the first.”

“It would take a perfect storm for any conference to exceed five playoff teams in a single season,” said Missouri Valley associate commissioner Mike Kern, “but if it were to happen, the MVFC is poised to be the first.”

- See more at: http://athlonsports.com/college-football/missouri-valley-strong-enough-6-fcs-playoff-teams#sthash.pA8qhguj.dpuf

[IBleedYellow]

xpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopc ornx


Saw this, wasn't going to be the one to link it.

[clenz]

6 teams in would cause the bandwidth to be used to the breaking point
6 teams in and on one side of the bracket would break the site.

[Lehigh'98]

I don't see why not. NDSU, UNI, SDSU, YSU, ISUr should all get in. If WIU builds on last year, they could easily as well. Only thing is six is a bit of overkill imo. Like last year, WIU had a case to get in, but we all knew they weren't making it to the finals.

I don't blame this on the MVFC though. It's up to the other conferences to generate more playoff quality teams. If they don't, then by all means, put six valley teams in. I'd still like to see at large teams from other conf (not the Pioneer) with 10-1 or 9-2 records have a shot though before a fifth or sixth team from any one conf, just my personal opionion.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No

[dewey]

No

No as long as all 6 are not on the same side of the bracket.

Dewey

[IBleedYellow]

No


Let's put Lehigh on the same side of the bracket. Deal?

[Professor Chaos]

Well, no team with 5 losses had ever made the playoffs until an MVFC team did it. No team with less than 7 wins had ever made the playoffs until an MVFC team did it. No conference has ever had 6 teams in the field until....

Honestly though I think if any conference does it, it's the Big Sky just because of the sheer number of teams. They'll be up to 14 now so qualifying 6 of them for the postseason would be a lot easier than it would be for a 10 team MVFC.

[clenz]

No
If they are deserving, why not? Other than participation ribbons for all

[AmsterBison]

Seems more likely that the Big Sky would get six teams in...

"Sploosh!" cried Sam Houston State.

[centennial]

Butt hurt in 3..2..1

[achrist70]

I don't see the big deal if 6 deserving MVFC teams get in. During the CAA dynasty 5 teams got in a 16 team field which is like 32% of the field.

[melloware13]

To have this happen you'd likely need a large number of 5-3 or 6-2 conference records, and a few dumpster fires at the bottom. I wouldn't have an issue with a conference having 25% of the field, but it is tough to have 60% of a conference make the tournament due to playing conference games.

[BisonTru]

Here's some numbers:

There's 40 in conference victories. There's 19 OOC possible victories, and 10 FBS less likely but possible victories. For the six teams in the mix we would have to take out at least 7 OOC possible victories, and 4 of the FBS. We'd also have to eliminate at least 5 in conference victories. So there would be a maximum total of 53 victories for the group including 6 FBS. Going .500 against the FBS for the group of 6 is probably the most bullish prediction you can make. So I'd put a range at the top of 50 wins (8.3 wins/team) to 40 wins (6.67 wins/team) depending on how many victories get stolen by OOC opponents, the other 3 FBS games, and the bottom four of the conference.

Let's use 45 Ws for the group, which is realistic yet probably a little bullish. That would be 7.5 (wins/team). With near perfect distribution you could make a case for three 8 win teams, and three 7 win teams. However, if the top four teams take 10,9,8, and 7 wins from the group that would only leave 11 for the bottom 2 or a 5 win team and a 6 win team.

Just doing the math it seems fairly difficult to get 6 teams to 6 wins which is the minimum to be considered and even at 6 wins with 5 teams already in they may need a very weak bubble to get the nod.

[clenz]

To have this happen you'd likely need a large number of 5-3 or 6-2 conference records, and a few dumpster fires at the bottom. I wouldn't have an issue with a conference having 25% of the field, but it is tough to have 60% of a conference make the tournament due to playing conference games.
That's exactly what the MVFC has

Last year's standings
NDSU 7-1
ISUR 7-1
WIU 5-3
UNI 5-3
SDSU 5-3
then a drop

The issue is we have 2 at the very bottom that should be 0 or 2 win type teams. The top 3 or 4 will be beating each other up. The next 4 will be not too far behind but beat each other up. I'm not sure we'll get 6 at 5-3 or better

[bertram]

The Big Sky Conference has a chance to put a dent in the possibility of 6 MFVC teams making it into the playoffs : 7 Big Sky VS MVFC games this season
9/10 EWU @ North Dakota State
9/10 UM @ UNI
9/10 Weber State @ South Dakota
9/10 NAU @ WIU
9/17 UNI @ EWU
9/17 Cal Poly @ SDSU
9/17 South Dakota @ North Dakota

[clenz]

The Big Sky Conference has a chance to put a dent in the possibility of 6 MFVC teams making it into the playoffs : 7 Big Sky VS MVFC games this season
9/10 EWU @ North Dakota State
9/10 UM @ UNI
9/10 Weber State @ South Dakota
9/10 NAU @ WIU
9/17 UNI @ EWU
9/17 Cal Poly @ SDSU
9/17 South Dakota @ North Dakota
For sure...

Had a chance the last 2 years as well - the MVFC went 9-1 and 8-2 the last two years vs the Big Sky. Montana has all 3 wins. All 3 are in Montana



2014
Montana
28
20
South Dakota
L
Away



2014
Montana
10
22
North Dakota State
W
Home



2014
Weber State
7
24
North Dakota State
W
Away



2014
Southern Utah
6
26
South Dakota State
W
Away



2014
Northern Arizona
21
28
South Dakota
W
Home



2014
North Dakota
0
38
Missouri State
W
Home



2014
Cal Poly
18
44
South Dakota State
W
Home



2014
Northern Colorado
7
46
Northern Iowa
W
Home



2014
Montana State
40
47
South Dakota State
W
Away
1st Round


2014
Eastern Washington
46
59
Illinois State
W
Away
Quarterfinals


2015
UC Davis
17
27
South Dakota
W
Away



2015
Cal Poly
20
34
Northern Iowa
W
Away



2015
North Dakota
9
34
North Dakota State
W
Home



2015
Montana
38
35
North Dakota State
L
Away



2015
Eastern Washington
35
38
Northern Iowa
W
Home



2015
Weber State
14
41
North Dakota State
W
Home



2015
Southern Utah
10
55
South Dakota State
W
Home



2015
Montana
24
17
South Dakota State
L
Away
1st Round


2015
Portland State
17
29
Northern Iowa
W
Away
1st Round


2015
Montana
6
37
North Dakota State
W
Home
2nd Round

[Grizalltheway]

Dammit, clenz beat me to the punch

http://img.picturequotes.com/2/52/51839/oh-boy-here-we-go-quote-1.jpg

[clenz]

For full reference as to how the MVFC has fared OOC...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Db21AtwrsqJkNXPdlo7cc8sc62gX2Ej26cSjuKS4oXM/edit#gid=0


Oh, the MVFC/Gateway is 60-29 all time vs the Big Sky (60.3%)

Of those 29 losses
12 belong to Montana
8 belong to schools that are now FBS/no longer exist

[Bison56]

This could be epic.xpopcornx

[IBleedYellow]

For full reference as to how the MVFC has fared OOC...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Db21AtwrsqJkNXPdlo7cc8sc62gX2Ej26cSjuKS4oXM/edit#gid=0


Oh, the MVFC/Gateway is 60-29 all time vs the Big Sky (60.3%)

Of those 29 losses
12 belong to Montana
8 belong to schools that are now FBS/no longer exist

You're telling me the Big Sky is top heavy?

Nah, that's not even right. It's Montana heavy.

[F'N Hawks]

For full reference as to how the MVFC has fared OOC...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Db21AtwrsqJkNXPdlo7cc8sc62gX2Ej26cSjuKS4oXM/edit#gid=0


Oh, the MVFC/Gateway is 60-29 all time vs the Big Sky (60.3%)

Of those 29 losses
12 belong to Montana
8 belong to schools that are now FBS/no longer exist

Why the focus on the Big Sky?

[344Johnson]

For full reference as to how the MVFC has fared OOC...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Db21AtwrsqJkNXPdlo7cc8sc62gX2Ej26cSjuKS4oXM/edit#gid=0


Oh, the MVFC/Gateway is 60-29 all time vs the Big Sky (60.3%)

Of those 29 losses
12 belong to Montana
8 belong to schools that are now FBS/no longer exist

When I looked at the sheet, it looked like 44-29 record. Still not too shabby.

[clenz]

When I looked at the sheet, it looked like 44-29 record. Still not too shabby.
Yeah, sorry. I got the win % for the win total.

Numbers are still the same everywhere else.

[clenz]

Why the focus on the Big Sky?
Well, if you read the thread this all started because...well...a Big Sky poster said the Big Sky has a chance to keep MVFC teams out of the playoffs due to the number of match ups.

Thus talking about recent MVFC/Big Sky match ups seems relevant.

Feel free to browse my sheet. I'll discuss any conference match ups. Only the SoCon has a win % better than 48 against the MVFC

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Big Sky guy does have a point. Since all the Big Sky teams don't play each other, they have a much better chance at a large number of 9-2/8-3 teams. Are you going to keep 8-3 Montana out to shoehorn, say, 6-5 Southern Illinois in the field, and a Saluki team that finished 6th in the conference? No way on Gods Green Earth.

[F'N Hawks]

Well, if you read the thread this all started because...well...a Big Sky poster said the Big Sky has a chance to keep MVFC teams out of the playoffs due to the number of match ups.

Thus talking about recent MVFC/Big Sky match ups seems relevant.

Feel free to browse my sheet. I'll discuss any conference match ups. Only the SoCon has a win % better than 48 against the MVFC

Gotcha big guy. Defending your turf! xthumbsupx

[F'N Hawks]

The Big Sky guy does have a point. Since all the Big Sky teams don't play each other, they have a much better chance at a large number of 9-2/8-3 teams. Are you going to keep 8-3 Montana out to shoehorn, say, 6-5 Southern Illinois in the field, and a Saluki team that finished 6th in the conference? No way on Gods Green Earth.

8-3 Montana? No way.
8-3 Montana State? No way.
8-3 E-Wash? No way.
8-3 Northern Arizona. Yep.
8-3 North Dakota. Yep.
...and so on.

[clenz]

The Big Sky guy does have a point. Since all the Big Sky teams don't play each other, they have a much better chance at a large number of 9-2/8-3 teams. Are you going to keep 8-3 Montana out to shoehorn, say, 6-5 Southern Illinois in the field, and a Saluki team that finished 6th in the conference? No way on Gods Green Earth.
That's certainly true.

It's why I'm all for the MVFC adding 4 just cellar dwellers.

[caribbeanhen]

only 6? you guys must of peaked

[Grizalltheway]

Gotcha big guy. Defending your turf! xthumbsupx

Meh. It's really just the same old "my team hasn't accomplished anything of note, so I'll just boast about the conference they play in instead!" routine. xcoffeex

[BisonTru]

Why the focus on the Big Sky?


Gotcha big guy. Defending your turf! xthumbsupx


8-3 Montana? No way.
8-3 Montana State? No way.
8-3 E-Wash? No way.
8-3 Northern Arizona. Yep.
8-3 North Dakota. Yep.
...and so on.


only 6? you guys must of peaked


Meh. It's really just the same old "my team hasn't accomplished anything of note, so I'll just boast about the conference they play in instead!" routine. xcoffeex

http://replygif.net/i/834.gif

[grizband]

8-3 Montana? No way.
8-3 Montana State? No way.
8-3 E-Wash? No way.
8-3 Northern Arizona. Yep.
8-3 North Dakota. Yep.
...and so on.
What's the logic here? Those teams haven't been historically good, and that should have ramifications this year?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Herder]

I think you'd need a 4-4 conf record to get in, and 7 wins. It's unlikely with 10 teams that 6 is accomplished. If you just used a the GPI top 24 to pick your teams, you'd have six or seven from the Mvfc.

The Big Sky has like 32 teams, so they will like have 8-3 teams that look better on paper, if you don't look to close.

[F'N Hawks]

What's the logic here? Those teams haven't been historically good, and that should have ramifications this year?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

This year? Who do you think's getting in if it's one those three vs. the any of other 10? Schedule wouldn't even matter, IMO. Historical powers rule in FCS football.

[The Yo Show]

6 teams in would cause the bandwidth to be used to the breaking point
6 teams in and on one side of the bracket would break the site.

Truth

Even further, 6 teams in and on the same side of the bracket would cause a protest outside of NCAA headquarters.

[Twentysix]

This year? Who do you think's getting in if it's one those three vs. the any of other 10? Schedule wouldn't even matter, IMO. Historical powers rule in FCS football.

NDSU has only been eligible for the FCS playoffs 7 times. You couldn't be calling us a "historical power" xlolx

Damnit, I just realized you were talking about bigsky teams. Whatever I'm keeping my narrative.

[JayJ79]

Well, no team with 5 losses had ever made the playoffs until an MVFC team did it. No team with less than 7 wins had ever made the playoffs until an MVFC team did it.

Had a 5-6 team make the playoffs in 2013

[mvemjsunpx]

Well, no team with 5 losses had ever made the playoffs until an MVFC team did it. No team with less than 7 wins had ever made the playoffs until an MVFC team did it. No conference has ever had 6 teams in the field until....

I assume you're talking at-larges, but still… you're wrong. Idaho was 6-4 in 1995, and Montana was 6-5 in 1982 (pre-auto-bids). There's probably more…

[Thumper 76]

This year? Who do you think's getting in if it's one those three vs. the any of other 10? Schedule wouldn't even matter, IMO. Historical powers rule in FCS football.

I wouldn't really consider a SDSU or WIU historical powers at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chattownmocs]

The last 2 years showed they didn't deserve 5. Why in the world would they get 6?

The thing is that indiana state was part of a group of teams that beat up on each other and they went to chattanooga and got dominated. Western Illinois was part of a group of teams that beat up on each other and they were flat out embarrassing in the playoffs last year. 4 is a good number for the mvfc. Keep "beating up" on each other and the soft big sky.

[F'N Hawks]

I wouldn't really consider a SDSU or WIU historical powers at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn't consider them a part of the Big Sky, which is what I was talking about.

[Twentysix]

The last 2 years showed they didn't deserve 5. Why in the world would they get 6?

The thing is that indiana state was part of a group of teams that beat up on each other and they went to chattanooga and got dominated. Western Illinois was part of a group of teams that beat up on each other and they were flat out embarrassing in the playoffs last year. 4 is a good number for the mvfc. Keep "beating up" on each other and the soft big sky.

Not only did Indiana State not play Chattanooga last year, they won 3 games in the MVFC, all of which were against the three worst teams in the conference. Also, Western Illinois won the same amount of playoff games as Chattanooga...



North Dakota State
7-1
13-2



Illinois State
7-1
10-3



South Dakota State
5-3
8-4



Northern Iowa
5-3
9-5



Western Illinois
5-3
7-6


Powerhouse alert
Indiana State
3-5
5-6



South Dakota
3-5
5-6



Youngstown State
3-5
5-6



Southern Illinois
2-6
3-8



Missouri State
0-8
1-10




xconfusedx

[chattownmocs]

Not only did Indiana State not play Chattanooga last year, they won 3 games in the MVFC, all of which were against the three worst teams in the conference. Also, Western Illinois won the same amount of playoff games as Chattanooga...



North Dakota State
7-1
13-2



Illinois State
7-1
10-3



South Dakota State
5-3
8-4



Northern Iowa
5-3
9-5



Western Illinois
5-3
7-6


Powerhouse alert
Indiana State
3-5
5-6



South Dakota
3-5
5-6



Youngstown State
3-5
5-6



Southern Illinois
2-6
3-8



Missouri State
0-8
1-10




xconfusedx

What are you confused about? Indiana state went to chattnooga for a playoff game and got destroyed in 2014. They were the 5th and weren't a legit playoff team.

Western Illinois was an embarrassment. They were a joke. They shouldn't have been in. 24 points against dayton? What a laughing stock? 6 teams? Hahaha. You have 1 team that is legit. Your 5th best team would get their ass kicked by the 5th best team in multiple conferences.

[Professor Chaos]

I assume you're talking at-larges, but still… you're wrong. Idaho was 6-4 in 1995, and Montana was 6-5 in 1982 (pre-auto-bids). There's probably more…
Fair enough, let me rephrase. Most everyone dismissed 5 loss at large candidates from playoff contention in recent years before 7-5 InSU got in and most everyone dismissed 6 win at large candidates from playoff consideration in recent years until 6-5 WIU got in.

[Professor Chaos]

The last 2 years showed they didn't deserve 5. Why in the world would they get 6?

The thing is that indiana state was part of a group of teams that beat up on each other and they went to chattanooga and got dominated. Western Illinois was part of a group of teams that beat up on each other and they were flat out embarrassing in the playoffs last year. 4 is a good number for the mvfc. Keep "beating up" on each other and the soft big sky.
And both years that #5 team from the MVFC dump trucked an at large from the OVC. InSU in the 2014 postseason @EKU and WIU in the 2015 regular season vs EIU. The #5 MVFC team hasn't been the weakest at large team by far in the last couple years.

[JSUSoutherner]

And both years that #5 team from the MVFC dump trucked an at large from the OVC. InSU in the 2014 postseason @EKU and WIU in the 2015 regular season vs EIU. The #5 MVFC team hasn't been the weakest at large team by far in the last couple years.
I know what you're trying to say but Chattanooga is SoCon. Everyone already knows the OVC is one team away from a complete dumpster fire. Saying the number 5 team in your conference can beat a OVC team not named JSU isn't really a big deal.

[POD Knows]

What are you confused about? Indiana state went to chattnooga for a playoff game and got destroyed in 2014. They were the 5th and weren't a legit playoff team.

Western Illinois was an embarrassment. They were a joke. They shouldn't have been in. 24 points against dayton? What a laughing stock? 6 teams? Hahaha. You have 1 team that is legit. Your 5th best team would get their ass kicked by the 5th best team in multiple conferences.

A game between the MVFC 5th ranked team and the CAA's and BSC's 5th rank team would be competitive, the rest of the division, don't think so.

[Professor Chaos]

I know what you're trying to say but Chattanooga is SoCon. Everyone already knows the OVC is one team away from a complete dumpster fire. Saying the number 5 team in your conference can beat a OVC team not named JSU isn't really a big deal.
I understand that but he's saying that InSU in 2014 and WIU in 2015 had no business in the playoffs and my argument is that they showed they were better than some other teams who were granted at-large bids those same years.

[JSUSoutherner]

I understand that but he's saying that InSU in 2014 and WIU in 2015 had no business in the playoffs and my argument is that they showed they were better than some other teams who were granted at-large bids those same years.
I see. My bad. I missed your meaning.

It's been a long day.

[Sycamore62]

Chatty destroyed ISUb? im not sure about destroyed.

Oh, and put us as one of the 6 in this year.

[Professor Chaos]

Chatty destroyed ISUb? im not sure about destroyed.

Oh, and put us as one of the 6 in this year.
ISUb was better in 2014 than what he's giving them credit for but that game was a boatrace by Chatty. The total yards and TOP tell the story along with the score: http://espn.go.com/college-football/matchup?gameId=400609086

[clenz]

Chatty destroyed ISUb? im not sure about destroyed.

He wasn't entirely wrong about that..

35-14 was the final. Indiana State had 178 yards of offense and Chatty had 503

Then again, Indiana State was 4-4 in MVFC play and 3 of their wins were 5th place, 8th place, and 9th place.

[Sycamore62]

He wasn't entirely wrong about that..

35-14 was the final. Indiana State had 178 yards of offense and Chatty had 503

Then again, Indiana State was 4-4 in MVFC play and 3 of their wins were 5th place, 8th place, and 9th place.

Yeah, I understand the lop sided stats and im not saying they weren't a better team. Im just saying that I wouldnt consider scoring the points that put you up by 21 with 2 min left in the game isnt destroying a team

[JSUSoutherner]

Yeah, I understand the lop sided stats and im not saying they weren't a better team. Im just saying that I wouldnt consider scoring the points that put you up by 21 with 2 min left in the game isnt destroying a team
1 for 10 on 3rd down? Jeez....

I will say this. These stats and score are eerily similar to a certain NC game. And the general consensus is one team got dominated.

[Sycamore62]

1 for 10 on 3rd down? Jeez....

I will say this. These stats and score are eerily similar to a certain NC game. And the general consensus is one team got dominated.

lol. none of us is as dumb as all of us

[chattownmocs]

He wasn't entirely wrong about that..

35-14 was the final. Indiana State had 178 yards of offense and Chatty had 503

Then again, Indiana State was 4-4 in MVFC play and 3 of their wins were 5th place, 8th place, and 9th place.

And they made the playoffs. That's what we are talking about. You can't use that argument in this discussion. Remember? That's all I heard about that game is that indiana state wasn't really any good.

[Sycamore62]

And they made the playoffs. That's what we are talking about. You can't use that argument in this discussion. Remember? That's all I heard about that game is that indiana state wasn't really any good.

yeah but you were only listening to idiots.

in all seriousness, does anyone remember who the teams that got left out were?

[chattownmocs]

yeah but you were only listening to idiots.

in all seriousness, does anyone remember who the teams that got left out were?

I don't know but that doesn't mean we need to add another mvfc team.

[BisonTru]

I wouldn't consider them a part of the Big Sky, which is what I was talking about, in the MVFC thread.

FYP


The last 2 years showed they didn't deserve 5. Why in the world would they get 6?

These Ceasers are awesome.

You should probably lay down and sleep this one off.

[Gangtackle11]

I think the issue from outside the MVFC is the following:

It's a top shelf FCS conference. No doubt.

Its reputation of dominance though lies squarely on the NDSU shoulders. The rest of the top tier are solid programs, but generally no better than the rest of us that chase NDSU.

I respect the rest, but if any of our better CAA teams were matched up against the others I would expect to compete with any 1 of them.

Recent years NDSU, UNI, & Illinois State have been consistently in the top 10 or so. The others for the most part have been able to live off the reputation. Some are better like SDSU, but it really comes down to NDSU destroying all comers.

Take away NDSU and you have Illinois State as the only MVFC team making the championship game during the Bison run. Last year they were stacked up against each other in the bracket, but 2011-2014 they weren't. Only Illinois State in '14 got to the FCS championship game.

Since the 2011 NDSU run the following teams have been in the elite 8:

2011: NDSU, SHSU, Montana State, Montana, UNI, Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Maine

2012: NDSU, SHSU,ODU, Maine, Georgia Southern, Montana State, Wofford, EWU

2013: NDSU, Towson, Coastal Carolina, UNH, SELA, EWU, Eastern Illinois, Jax State

2014: NDSU,Illinois State, Chattanooga, UNH, SHSU, Villanova, Coastal Carolina, EWU

2015: NDSU, Jax State, Richmond, SHSU, Illinois State, UNI, Colgate, Charleston So.

Elite 8 breakdown:
3 MVFC teams: 9 times (NDSU 5, ISUr 2, UNI 2)

7 CAA teams: 9 times (Georgia Southern 2, UNH 2, Maine, ODU, Towson, Villanova, Richmond)

3 Big Sky teams: 6 times (EWU 3, Montana State 2, Montana)

2 Southland teams: 5 times (SHSU 4, SELA 1)

2 Ohio Valley teams: 3 times (Jax State 2, Eastern Illinois)

2 Big South teams: 3 times (Coastal Carolina 2, Charleston So. )

2 Southern Conference: 2 times (Wofford, Chattanooga)

2 Patriot League Teams: 2 times (Lehigh, Colgate)

I'm sure my view of how I judge this will be challenged, but with all due respect its a Bison World & the rest all live in it for now. (MVFC member or not)

[BisonFan02]

I think the issue from outside the MVFC is the following:

It's a top shelf FCS conference. No doubt.

Its reputation of dominance though lies squarely on the NDSU shoulders. The rest of the top tier are solid programs, but generally no better than the rest of us that chase NDSU.

I respect the rest, but if any of our better CAA teams were matched up against the others I would expect to compete with any 1 of them.

Recent years NDSU, UNI, & Illinois State have been consistently in the top 10 or so. The others for the most part have been able to live off the reputation. Some are better like SDSU, but it really comes down to NDSU destroying all comers.

Take away NDSU and you have Illinois State as the only MVFC team making the championship game during the Bison run. Last year they were stacked up against each other in the bracket, but 2011-2014 they weren't. Only Illinois State in '14 got to the FCS championship game.

Since the 2011 NDSU run the following teams have been in the elite 8:

2011: NDSU, SHSU, Montana State, Montana, UNI, Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Maine

2012: NDSU, SHSU,ODU, Maine, Georgia Southern, Montana State, Wofford, EWU

2013: NDSU, Towson, Coastal Carolina, UNH, SELA, EWU, Eastern Illinois, Jax State

2014: NDSU,Illinois State, Chattanooga, UNH, SHSU, Villanova, Coastal Carolina, EWU

2015: NDSU, Jax State, Richmond, SHSU, Illinois State, UNI, Colgate, Charleston So.

Elite 8 breakdown:
3 MVFC teams: 9 times (NDSU 5, ISUr 2, UNI 2)

7 CAA teams: 9 times (Georgia Southern 2, UNH 2, Maine, ODU, Towson, Villanova, Richmond)

3 Big Sky teams: 6 times (EWU 3, Montana State 2, Montana)

2 Southland teams: 5 times (SHSU 4, SELA 1)

2 Ohio Valley teams: 3 times (Jax State 2, Eastern Illinois)

2 Big South teams: 3 times (Coastal Carolina 2, Charleston So. )

2 Southern Conference: 2 times (Wofford, Chattanooga)

2 Patriot League Teams: 2 times (Lehigh, Colgate)

I'm sure my view of how I judge this will be challenged, but with all due respect its a Bison World & the rest all live in it for now. (MVFC member or not)

I didn't know Georgia Southern was in the CAA.

[clenz]

Long, but good, post edited outAgain, look at the OOC record of the MVFC the last few years, include the playoffs, and look at how the MVFC has done.

OOC records of the MVFC over that time


Year
BSC
BSO
CAA
GWC
MEAC
MVC
NEC
OVC
PL
PFL
SoCon
SLC
SWAC
Ind
Total
%




2011
0-1
0-0
1-0
3-1
0-0
XX
2-0
2-2
2-0
4-0
2-0
2-1
0-0
0-0
18-5
78.3%


2012
1-2
0-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
XX
2-0
3-2
1-0
4-0
3-0
2-0
1-0
0-0
17-4
81.0%


2013
4-3
1-0
2-0
XX
2-0
XX
1-0
1-4
0-0
4-0
1-0
2-2
0-0
1-0
19-9
67.9%


2014
9-1
2-0
1-0
XX
0-0
XX
2-0
7-0
0-0
3-0
0-1
5-0
1-0
0-0
30-2
93.8%


2015
8-2
1-1
1-1
XX
1-0
XX
3-0
5-1
0-0
2-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
20-5
80.0%




That includes playoffs.

Against non-MVFC teams in the playoffs the MVFC is 28-6 since the start of the 2011 playoffs. The losses? 5 of the 6 on the road (UR over Illinois State last year was the only home loss). Montana and EWU have 4 of the 6 wins over MVFC schools since 2011



2011
Montana
10
48
38
Northern Iowa
L
Away
Quarterfinal
Big Sky


2012
Eastern Washington
51
35
-16
Illinois State
L
Away
Quarterfinal
Big Sky


2013
Eastern Washington
41
17
-24
South Dakota State
L
Away
2nd Round
Big Sky


2014
Chattanooga
35
14
-21
Indiana State
L
Away
2nd Round
SoCon


2015
Montana
24
17
-7
South Dakota State
L
Away
1st Round
Big Sky


2015
Richmond
39
27
-12
Illinois State
L
Home
Quarterfinals
CAA




Take NDSU out and the MVFC still wins 2/3rd of its games (12-6). It's pretty crazy how many times an MVFC school has eliminated another MVFC school from the playoffs the last few years. I think it's in the range of 8-10.


The crazy things that can happen in a playoff game make it an odd judge of strength of conference at times.

[BisonTru]

I think the issue from outside the MVFC is the following:

It's a top shelf FCS conference. No doubt.

Its reputation of dominance though lies squarely on the NDSU shoulders. The rest of the top tier are solid programs, but generally no better than the rest of us that chase NDSU.

I respect the rest, but if any of our better CAA teams were matched up against the others I would expect to compete with any 1 of them.

Recent years NDSU, UNI, & Illinois State have been consistently in the top 10 or so. The others for the most part have been able to live off the reputation. Some are better like SDSU, but it really comes down to NDSU destroying all comers.

Take away NDSU and you have Illinois State as the only MVFC team making the championship game during the Bison run. Last year they were stacked up against each other in the bracket, but 2011-2014 they weren't. Only Illinois State in '14 got to the FCS championship game.

Since the 2011 NDSU run the following teams have been in the elite 8:

2011: NDSU, SHSU, Montana State, Montana, UNI, Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Maine

2012: NDSU, SHSU,ODU, Maine, Georgia Southern, Montana State, Wofford, EWU

2013: NDSU, Towson, Coastal Carolina, UNH, SELA, EWU, Eastern Illinois, Jax State

2014: NDSU,Illinois State, Chattanooga, UNH, SHSU, Villanova, Coastal Carolina, EWU

2015: NDSU, Jax State, Richmond, SHSU, Illinois State, UNI, Colgate, Charleston So.

Elite 8 breakdown:
3 MVFC teams: 9 times (NDSU 5, ISUr 2, UNI 2)

7 CAA teams: 9 times (Georgia Southern 2, UNH 2, Maine, ODU, Towson, Villanova, Richmond)

3 Big Sky teams: 6 times (EWU 3, Montana State 2, Montana)

2 Southland teams: 5 times (SHSU 4, SELA 1)

2 Ohio Valley teams: 3 times (Jax State 2, Eastern Illinois)

2 Big South teams: 3 times (Coastal Carolina 2, Charleston So. )

2 Southern Conference: 2 times (Wofford, Chattanooga)

2 Patriot League Teams: 2 times (Lehigh, Colgate)

I'm sure my view of how I judge this will be challenged, but with all due respect its a Bison World & the rest all live in it for now. (MVFC member or not)

From an insider (full member of the MVFC circle jerk) it's a little humorous to see outsiders try and spin this to the point you're trying to add credit to your own conference from a team that no longer is FCS nor was ever in your conference.

You can't take NDSU out and try and look at the conference. You throw NDSU in any other conference the last five years for one of your bottom feeders and you can pretty much add a W for all the MVFC teams and subtract one from all of your teams. Which is why we get frustrated when people are moaning about a .500 MVFC team in the poll when you can look at who they played and how they played and easily say that's one of the top 25 teams in the country.

Second, when looking at the playoffs. Over the past two years 7 of 10 MVFC playoff teams either won it or were knocked out by another MVFC team. How far would UNI and SDSU made it had they not run into NDSU or Illinois St? I think we can say ISU is probably the champion in '14 if NDSU didn't exist.

Most of us in the MVFC realize some of the top teams from around the country are damn good and could compete in the MVFC. But let's not pretend that the last couple years the MVFC from top to bottom hasn't been the best conference. Teams like Albany, Elon, Maine, Rhode Island, and Stony Brook (although our friends to the north think SB is decent) would be lucky to get past any team in the MVFC sans MSU.

[POD Knows]

Again, look at the OOC record of the MVFC the last few years, include the playoffs, and look at how the MVFC has done.

OOC records of the MVFC over that time


Year
BSC
BSO
CAA
GWC
MEAC
MVC
NEC
OVC
PL
PFL
SoCon
SLC
SWAC
Ind
Total
%




2011
0-1
0-0
1-0
3-1
0-0
XX
2-0
2-2
2-0
4-0
2-0
2-1
0-0
0-0
18-5
78.3%


2012
1-2
0-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
XX
2-0
3-2
1-0
4-0
3-0
2-0
1-0
0-0
17-4
81.0%


2013
4-3
1-0
2-0
XX
2-0
XX
1-0
1-4
0-0
4-0
1-0
2-2
0-0
1-0
19-9
67.9%


2014
9-1
2-0
1-0
XX
0-0
XX
2-0
7-0
0-0
3-0
0-1
5-0
1-0
0-0
30-2
93.8%


2015
8-2
1-1
1-1
XX
1-0
XX
3-0
5-1
0-0
2-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
20-5
80.0%




That includes playoffs.

Against non-MVFC teams in the playoffs the MVFC is 28-6 since the start of the 2011 playoffs. The losses? 5 of the 6 on the road (UR over Illinois State last year was the only home loss). Montana and EWU have 4 of the 6 wins over MVFC schools since 2011



2011
Montana
10
48
38
Northern Iowa
L
Away
Quarterfinal
Big Sky


2012
Eastern Washington
51
35
-16
Illinois State
L
Away
Quarterfinal
Big Sky


2013
Eastern Washington
41
17
-24
South Dakota State
L
Away
2nd Round
Big Sky


2014
Chattanooga
35
14
-21
Indiana State
L
Away
2nd Round
SoCon


2015
Montana
24
17
-7
South Dakota State
L
Away
1st Round
Big Sky


2015
Richmond
39
27
-12
Illinois State
L
Home
Quarterfinals
CAA




Take NDSU out and the MVFC still wins 2/3rd of its games (12-6). It's pretty crazy how many times an MVFC school has eliminated another MVFC school from the playoffs the last few years. I think it's in the range of 8-10.


The crazy things that can happen in a playoff game make it an odd judge of strength of conference at times.

Mic drop, exit stage left

[IBleedYellow]

I'm trying to figure out how Georgia Southern got into the CAA.

[Catbooster]

I've always had mixed feelings about expanding the playoff field to 24 teams. Overall, I've been somewhat in favor of it. But when you're discussing whether a team that's in 6th place in their conference should go, it's hard not to think there should be fewer teams in the playoffs.

[clenz]

I've always had mixed feelings about expanding the playoff field to 24 teams. Overall, I've been somewhat in favor of it. But when you're discussing whether a team that's in 6th place in their conference should go, it's hard not to think there should be fewer teams in the playoffs.
Certainly true.

Issue is that there had to be a minimum of 22, and that's a capitalistic format.

Right now we could go back to 20, and I'm all for that. The issue is we never know when/if they Ivy will say yes to a playoff and we are right back to 24

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm trying to figure out how Georgia Southern got into the CAA.
Maybe they pulled an Idaho and the SoCon didn't want them back kicking everyone's butt.

[Gangtackle11]

My bad on Ga. South. I was multi-tasking at the time.

It's great to see how quickly MVFC nation can mobilize!

Haha

[Gangtackle11]

Corrected Ga. Southern for the record:

I think the issue from outside the MVFC is the following:

It's a top shelf FCS conference. No doubt.

Its reputation of dominance though lies squarely on the NDSU shoulders. The rest of the top tier are solid programs, but generally no better than the rest of us that chase NDSU.

I respect the rest, but if any of our better CAA teams were matched up against the others I would expect to compete with any 1 of them.

Recent years NDSU, UNI, & Illinois State have been consistently in the top 10 or so. The others for the most part have been able to live off the reputation. Some are better like SDSU, but it really comes down to NDSU destroying all comers.

Take away NDSU and you have Illinois State as the only MVFC team making the championship game during the Bison run. Last year they were stacked up against each other in the bracket, but 2011-2014 they weren't. Only Illinois State in '14 got to the FCS championship game.

Since the 2011 NDSU run the following teams have been in the elite 8:

2011: NDSU, SHSU, Montana State, Montana, UNI, Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Maine

2012: NDSU, SHSU,ODU, Maine, Georgia Southern, Montana State, Wofford, EWU

2013: NDSU, Towson, Coastal Carolina, UNH, SELA, EWU, Eastern Illinois, Jax State

2014: NDSU,Illinois State, Chattanooga, UNH, SHSU, Villanova, Coastal Carolina, EWU

2015: NDSU, Jax State, Richmond, SHSU, Illinois State, UNI, Colgate, Charleston So.

Elite 8 breakdown:
3 MVFC teams: 9 times (NDSU 5, ISUr 2, UNI 2)

6 CAA teams: 7 times (UNH 2, Maine, ODU, Towson, Villanova, Richmond)

3 Big Sky teams: 6 times (EWU 3, Montana State 2, Montana)

2 Southland teams: 5 times (SHSU 4, SELA 1)

3 Southern Conference: 4 times (Georgia Southern 2, Wofford, Chattanooga)

2 Ohio Valley teams: 3 times (Jax State 2, Eastern Illinois)

2 Big South teams: 3 times (Coastal Carolina 2, Charleston So. )

2 Patriot League Teams: 2 times (Lehigh, Colgate)

I'm sure my view of how I judge this will be challenged, but with all due respect its a Bison World & the rest all live in it for now. (MVFC member or not)

[KPSUL]

That's certainly true.

It's why I'm all for the MVFC adding 4 just cellar dwellers.

Well you can't have Rhode Island, they belong to us!

[KPSUL]

[QUOTE=clenz;2344000]Again, look at the OOC record of the MVFC the last few years, include the playoffs, and look at how the MVFC has done.

OOC records of the MVFC over that time


Year
BSC
BSO
CAA
GWC
MEAC
MVC
NEC
OVC
PL
PFL
SoCon
SLC
SWAC
Ind
Total
%




2011
0-1
0-0
1-0
3-1
0-0
XX
2-0
2-2
2-0
4-0
2-0
2-1
0-0
0-0
18-5
78.3%


2012
1-2
0-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
XX
2-0
3-2
1-0
4-0
3-0
2-0
1-0
0-0
17-4
81.0%


2013
4-3
1-0
2-0
XX
2-0
XX
1-0
1-4
0-0
4-0
1-0
2-2
0-0
1-0
19-9
67.9%


2014
9-1
2-0
1-0
XX
0-0
XX
2-0
7-0
0-0
3-0
0-1
5-0
1-0
0-0
30-2
93.8%


2015
8-2
1-1
1-1
XX
1-0
XX
3-0
5-1
0-0
2-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
20-5
80.0%




Your matrix illustrates Gangtackle's central argument that the only measurable difference between the MVFC and CAA during this current time period is the FCS dominance of NDSU. If you take out the NDSU playoff games the conferences are 1-1. When the CAA had its brief period of dominance it was a result of the performance of 4 or 5 different teams over 5 years, demonstrating the strength of the conference as a whole, not just one team.

[Lehigh'98]

Corrected Ga. Southern for the record:

I think the issue from outside the MVFC is the following:

It's a top shelf FCS conference. No doubt.

Its reputation of dominance though lies squarely on the NDSU shoulders. The rest of the top tier are solid programs, but generally no better than the rest of us that chase NDSU.

I respect the rest, but if any of our better CAA teams were matched up against the others I would expect to compete with any 1 of them.

Recent years NDSU, UNI, & Illinois State have been consistently in the top 10 or so. The others for the most part have been able to live off the reputation. Some are better like SDSU, but it really comes down to NDSU destroying all comers.

Take away NDSU and you have Illinois State as the only MVFC team making the championship game during the Bison run. Last year they were stacked up against each other in the bracket, but 2011-2014 they weren't. Only Illinois State in '14 got to the FCS championship game.

Since the 2011 NDSU run the following teams have been in the elite 8:

2011: NDSU, SHSU, Montana State, Montana, UNI, Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Maine

2012: NDSU, SHSU,ODU, Maine, Georgia Southern, Montana State, Wofford, EWU

2013: NDSU, Towson, Coastal Carolina, UNH, SELA, EWU, Eastern Illinois, Jax State

2014: NDSU,Illinois State, Chattanooga, UNH, SHSU, Villanova, Coastal Carolina, EWU

2015: NDSU, Jax State, Richmond, SHSU, Illinois State, UNI, Colgate, Charleston So.

Elite 8 breakdown:
3 MVFC teams: 9 times (NDSU 5, ISUr 2, UNI 2)

6 CAA teams: 7 times (UNH 2, Maine, ODU, Towson, Villanova, Richmond)

3 Big Sky teams: 6 times (EWU 3, Montana State 2, Montana)

2 Southland teams: 5 times (SHSU 4, SELA 1)

3 Southern Conference: 4 times (Georgia Southern 2, Wofford, Chattanooga)

2 Ohio Valley teams: 3 times (Jax State 2, Eastern Illinois)

2 Big South teams: 3 times (Coastal Carolina 2, Charleston So. )

2 Patriot League Teams: 2 times (Lehigh, Colgate)

I'm sure my view of how I judge this will be challenged, but with all due respect its a Bison World & the rest all live in it for now. (MVFC member or not)

This is an excellent post. If you look at who would have been the National Champs had NDSU not been in it.
2011 - Most likely SHSU
2012 - Most likely G. Southern or SHSU
2013 - Probably Towson.
2014 - Illinois St no doubt
2015 - Wide open, no one was a lock.

Without NDSU, the parity in the playoffs by conference is pretty good since their run started.

[clenz]

SDSU has been knocked out twice by NDSU in the round leading to the quarterfinals. Last year SDSU lost to Montana but had they won that NDSU would again have stopped them from the quarters.

The CAA has more teams that have been there but look at the fact that only one has been there more than once.
Towson was garbage, caught lightning in a bottle with West and fell off the face of the earth again.
ODU is never there and managed to grab a QB like Heineke that no one could have predicted would have gotten to the level he was
Maine has won more than 5 games in a season just twice since 2008
Richmond and UNH are the only two consistently good CAA teams right now.

The CAA gets a benefit the Big Sky and MVFC doesn't - enough other conferences around to not be filtered into itself. Always have the MEAC/Patriot/Big South to funnel to you until you get to the quarters. Look how many conference match ups (or cross with each other) match ups the Big Sky, MVFC and even SLC have every single year.

It's all cyclical, and I realize at some point the MVFC will fall to 4th in the pecking order at some point. The fact is you can talk about "riding NDSU's strength" all you want. The MVFC has shown, repetedly, on the field the last 3-4 years it's the top strength conference.

I use them as an example frequently and will do so again.

South Dakota is a bad MVFC team. They have gone winless in MVFC play twice in their four years in the conference. Over their 4 years they have been outscored, on average, by more than 21 ppg and out-gained by over 120 ypg. Yet, outside of conference play they do pretty well. They are 5-3 against other FCS conferences and have played Montana to closer games than most of the Big Sky. Hell. They beat a playoff qualifying NAU team in 2014...it was their only D1 win. In MVFC play they were outscored 300-131 (38-16 per game). That year they also played Montana to a 1 score game, in Missoula.....Montana was a round of 16 team that year and would have been a round of 8 team had a conference mate not beaten them in the second round.

It's not that USD is as terrible as their record has been. It's that they joined the MVFC in 2012...right as the conference was on a massive upswing after a 3 year massive downswing. The MVFC from 08-2011 wasn't real good. UNI won the MVFC in 2010, and clinched the title before the final weekend, and had 7 regular season wins.

The playoffs are a funky thing and hot teams can end "better teams" seasons simply because they are firing on all cylinders better than the other team. UNI is a great example - 2005 UNI finished the regular season 7-4 in a 3 way tie for first. Only got in because they won the tie break for the autobid. Beat #1 UNH in New Hampshire, next week beat #3 Texas State in Texas and then in the title game lead App State with less than 6 minutes left, with the ball killing the clock, when a strip sack returned for a TD gave ASU the win.

Was UNI better than UNH? Probably not over the course of a season. Was UNI on a massive hot streak late in the year? You bet.

[clenz]

This is an excellent post. If you look at who would have been the National Champs had NDSU not been in it.
2011 - Most likely SHSU
2012 - Most likely G. Southern or SHSU
2013 - Probably Towson.
2014 - Illinois St no doubt
2015 - Wide open, no one was a lock.

Without NDSU, the parity in the playoffs by conference is pretty good since their run started.
UNI wins the title last year. That's not a question. That's some homerism and a whole ****ing lot of there isn't another team that was even close to NDSU. UNI was a mirror image of NDSU, just didn't have the QB play of Stick/Wentz.

Again, regionalization of playoffs and even if the second best team in the country isn't from the MVFC it's pretty damning when you start looking at MVFC records OOC the last 4 years and see what the entire conference has done outside of MVFC play.

You can say "Only NDSU has won the title" and whatever. Don't care. The quality of play in the MVFC, top to bottom, year after year right now is significatnly higher in the MVFC.

Maybe that changes starting this year. It very well could. I have no idea.

[Lehigh'98]

UNI wins the title last year. That's not a question. That's some homerism and a whole ****ing lot of there isn't another team that was even close to NDSU. UNI was a mirror image of NDSU, just didn't have the QB play of Stick/Wentz.

Again, regionalization of playoffs and even if the second best team in the country isn't from the MVFC it's pretty damning when you start looking at MVFC records OOC the last 4 years and see what the entire conference has done outside of MVFC play.

You can say "Only NDSU has won the title" and whatever. Don't care. The quality of play in the MVFC, top to bottom, year after year right now is significatnly higher in the MVFC.

Maybe that changes starting this year. It very well could. I have no idea.

UNI probably would have had the best shot, but you cant say they would have for sure beaten Ill St or Richmond or Jax St. I mean, I know you can, but if you are being objective about it, they would have been underdogs against Ill ST and a slight fav over the other two, but it's by no means a given.

[Gangtackle11]

Since NDSU started their FCS dominance there have only been 5 CAA/MVFC match ups in the FCS playoffs that I see from my iphone. (2 without the Bison.)

2011 NDSU 26 JMU 14
2013 NDSU 52 UNH 14
NDSU 35 Towson 7
2014 ISUr 21 UNH 18
2015 Richmond 39 ISUr 27

I have admitted that it's the best FCS conference currently, but the point was which I used the CAA to compare is that the rest are good. to very good.

The Bison rule the land. The rest are just like the other top teams in the better FCS conferences. The rest of the MVFC would all be in a pretty good fight to win in Frisco or even get there if NDSU didn't play "hog the trophy" every year.

The point is the MVFC has several solid teams, but none have proved to be substantially better than any of us from the better teams in our conferences.

That's the point. The MVFC doesn't have the bottom dwellers that the CAA have, but in the end all your top teams sans NDSU look like the top teams in the CAA to me. Unfortunately, all the MVFC out of conference dominance doesn't apply to the CAA except when NDSU kicks one of us in the butt come playoffs. We don't play the MVFC or the conferences you build up the lopsided OOC records that are touted here.

I can only go by the 5 games played between the CAA & MVFC in the playoffs. 4-1 MVFC (3-0 NDSU)

Impressive, but take NDSU out and you look like you have 3-4 very competitive teams just like the conference my Wildcats play in.

This isn't about UAlbany or Missouri State. Admittedly we play more teams with lesser records, but come playoffs only NDSU has made a case that it hurts the better CAA teams. The whole point.

I know UNI, ISUr, & (Fill in your favorite MVFC team) are very good, but it's NDSU that takes this conference to the head of the class without the Bison there are a whole lot of teams from all over that would make the rest of the MVFC pay attention on a Saturday afternoon. That's all I'm saying.

I think the MVFC is currently the best FCS top to bottom. That was never the point of my statement. The point is after NDSU the rest of the competitive MVFC teams are in the same pot as the rest of the FCS playoff contenders since 2011.

Let the stoning begin. It's a slow Friday. Need the entertainment, ha.

[F'N Hawks]

UNI wins the title last year. That's not a question. That's some homerism and a whole ****ing lot of there isn't another team that was even close to NDSU. UNI was a mirror image of NDSU, just didn't have the QB play of Stick/Wentz.

Again, regionalization of playoffs and even if the second best team in the country isn't from the MVFC it's pretty damning when you start looking at MVFC records OOC the last 4 years and see what the entire conference has done outside of MVFC play.

You can say "Only NDSU has won the title" and whatever. Don't care. The quality of play in the MVFC, top to bottom, year after year right now is significatnly higher in the MVFC.

Maybe that changes starting this year. It very well could. I have no idea.

No question huh? Even with that offense? Against NDSU it was zone read 45 times and throw 10 fades. I was shocked at the play calling. I think your offense would have tripped you up eventually. As you have said, your QB is usually an issue.

[Gangtackle11]

[QUOTE=clenz;2344000]Again, look at the OOC record of the MVFC the last few years, include the playoffs, and look at how the MVFC has done.

OOC records of the MVFC over that time


Year
BSC
BSO
CAA
GWC
MEAC
MVC
NEC
OVC
PL
PFL
SoCon
SLC
SWAC
Ind
Total
%




2011
0-1
0-0
1-0
3-1
0-0
XX
2-0
2-2
2-0
4-0
2-0
2-1
0-0
0-0
18-5
78.3%


2012
1-2
0-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
XX
2-0
3-2
1-0
4-0
3-0
2-0
1-0
0-0
17-4
81.0%


2013
4-3
1-0
2-0
XX
2-0
XX
1-0
1-4
0-0
4-0
1-0
2-2
0-0
1-0
19-9
67.9%


2014
9-1
2-0
1-0
XX
0-0
XX
2-0
7-0
0-0
3-0
0-1
5-0
1-0
0-0
30-2
93.8%


2015
8-2
1-1
1-1
XX
1-0
XX
3-0
5-1
0-0
2-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
0-0
20-5
80.0%




Your matrix illustrates Gangtackle's central argument that the only measurable difference between the MVFC and CAA during this current time period is the FCS dominance of NDSU. If you take out the NDSU playoff games the conferences are 1-1. When the CAA had its brief period of dominance it was a result of the performance of 4 or 5 different teams over 5 years, demonstrating the strength of the conference as a whole, not just one team.

Bingo. There isn't enough sample to argue either way, but since no one beats NDSU in the end doesn't necessarily mean the other top MVFC teams are unbeatable.

[clenz]

No question huh? Even with that offense? Against NDSU it was zone read 45 times and throw 10 fades. I was shocked at the play calling. I think your offense would have tripped you up eventually. As you have said, your QB is usually an issue.
That same offense, outside the NDSU game, averaged 36 points per game over the last 6 leading into the NDSU playoff game. On the season it averaged 30 ppg, and that includes the complete cluster **** that was the first half of the season.

Averaged over 5 YPC, 13 yards per completion, 47 touchdowns, nearly 6 yards per play and pushing 400 yards of offense per game. Not too shabby for a team that had 2 plays it ran all season.

[F'N Hawks]

That same offense, outside the NDSU game, averaged 36 points per game over the last 6 leading into the NDSU playoff game. On the season it averaged 30 ppg, and that includes the complete cluster **** that was the first half of the season.

Averaged over 5 YPC, 13 yards per completion, 47 touchdowns, nearly 6 yards per play and pushing 400 yards of offense per game. Not too shabby for a team that had 2 plays it ran all season.

Of course you get all defensive, ignore the point and went straight to general stats. Meh. I was talking about the extremely vanilla play calling that didnt work vs NDSU.

[clenz]

This is still fun...

Let's keep pulling NDSU out of the stats to show how much it hurts the MVFC.

The FCS OOC record of the MVFC in the regular season (since I've already done playoffs) the last three years? 45-11...that's a 80.3% win %
Average score of those 56 games? 37-18
Of those 11 losses, SIX belong to Missouri State and South Dakota State.
Only 3 MVFC teams have lost multiple OOC games to FCS schools over that time - MSU x3, USD x3, SIU x2
Half of the conference hasn't lost an OOC game vs the FCS over the last three years (yes, that one does include NDSU)

Turns out, pulling NDSU out doesn't really change anything.

You can't say "take NDSU and their titles out and you aren't any better than any other conference" and then say "Well, yeah it's the deepest but NDSU..." and then ignore the rest of the stats.


Here's my challenge for you...

Take the conference champion (best team) out of every conference and then start looking how the rest of the conference fared - like you want to do with the MVFC - and let me know how they compare to the MVFC. Let me know what the win % in the playoffs without your conference champion is. Let me know what the regular season win % is. Maybe it beats the MVFC. If it does, I'll gladly concede the MVFC isn't ****.

[clenz]

Of course you get all defensive, ignore the point and went straight to general stats. Meh. I was talking about the extremely vanilla play calling that didnt work vs NDSU.
That's exactly the point. It didn't work against NDSU, but did the rest of the season pretty damn well.

Oh hell, let's look at the first NDSU/UNI game as well...where UNI ran the same offense....game also in Fargo

UNI lead 28-24 with 36 seconds left IN THE GAME.
UNI ran for 277 yards on 7.3 YARDS PER CARRY...actually it was 300 on the game but there was 23 sack yards...so really it was 300 yards at 8.5 YPA
UNI threw for 160 yards on 19.8 YARDS PER COMPLETION AND 9.3 PER ATTEMPT
UNI averaged 7.9 yards per play for the game.

Turns out that offense does work against NDSU...also **** stomped the **** out of them in 2014 with that same offense.


As much as I, and every UNI fan, hated the offense that was runt he last few years, the reality is worked fairly well.

It didn't work against NDSU that day. That's for sure. Who else had a defense that could do what NDSU's did/does?

[F'N Hawks]

That's exactly the point. It didn't work against NDSU, but did the rest of the season pretty damn well.

Oh hell, let's look at the first NDSU/UNI game as well...where UNI ran the same offense....game also in Fargo

UNI lead 28-24 with 36 seconds left IN THE GAME.
UNI ran for 277 yards on 7.3 YARDS PER CARRY...actually it was 300 on the game but there was 23 sack yards...so really it was 300 yards at 8.5 YPA
UNI threw for 160 yards on 19.8 YARDS PER COMPLETION AND 9.3 PER ATTEMPT
UNI averaged 7.9 yards per play for the game.

Turns out that offense does work against NDSU...also **** stomped the **** out of them in 2014 with that same offense.


As much as I, and every UNI fan, hated the offense that was runt he last few years, the reality is worked fairly well.

It didn't work against NDSU that day. That's for sure. Who else had a defense that could do what NDSU's did/does?

Need more stats before I decide.....

[clenz]

Need more stats before I decide.....
You can't make a statement like "You're offense would have tripped you up eventually" and then completely balk at the stats that seem prove otherwise.

I know you don't like stats. If I was a UND fan and my team sucked as hard, for as long, as UND I'd hate them too

[clenz]

Of course you get all defensive, ignore the point and went straight to general stats. Meh. I was talking about the extremely vanilla play calling that didnt work vs NDSU.
You're literally ignoring the fact the exact same play calling happened all year to make your "I want to think I'm right" point while ignoring all facts and logic on it.

[BisonFan02]

You can't make a statement like "You're offense would have tripped you up eventually" and then completely balk at the stats that seem prove otherwise.

I know you don't like stats. If I was a UND fan and my team sucked as hard, for as long, as UND I'd hate them too

Especially when your offensive stats before the opening kickoff are better than when the whistle blows to end the half.

[Lehigh'98]

You're literally ignoring the fact the exact same play calling happened all year to make your "I want to think I'm right" point while ignoring all facts and logic on it.

Didn't UNI lose to Ill St?

[BisonTru]

No question huh? Even with that offense? Against NDSU it was zone read 45 times and throw 10 fades. I was shocked at the play calling. I think your offense would have tripped you up eventually. As you have said, your QB is usually an issue.

That vanilla read option crap was the back bone that took JSU to the championship. I would have loved to see a UNI/JSU match-up. Those two teams were very similar even in strengths and weaknesses and styles.

[SUPharmacist]

Need more stats before I decide.....

So....how would you like Clenz or others to make their point. Just shout MVFC is super. Yes, stats can be manipulated, but they are still probably the most impartial way to make the point.

[F'N Hawks]

You can't make a statement like "You're offense would have tripped you up eventually" and then completely balk at the stats that seem prove otherwise.

I know you don't like stats. If I was a UND fan and my team sucked as hard, for as long as UND, I'd hate them too

Yaaaahhh. You told me!!

[clenz]

Didn't UNI lose to Ill St?
Yes. The first half of the season was a complete cluster ****. I'm not going to delve into it but the UNI that took the field in Fargo in December crushes the UNI team that took the field in Fargo in September (The week after the Illinois State loss) for a number of reasons. Game was horrendous to watch. UNI out gained Illinois State. The difference in that game was the offense early in the season vs late in the season. UNI had two possession in the 4th that ended in short FGs that started in ISU territory and didn't get a TD.

[clenz]

So....how would you like Clenz or others to make their point. Just shout MVFC is super. Yes, stats can be manipulated, but they are still probably the most impartial way to make the point.
I'd like to know what I'm manipulating. I'm literally pulling wins/losses and box scores.

I'm asking for others to do the same. I do it all of the time. I've put to spread sheet together for every single MVFC game against other FCS teams ever played...I mean every game ever as FCS match ups.

I've challenged, begged, others to do the same so we can compare better and actually discuss in facts rather than "Yeah, ignore the general point". What the hell does that even mean?

No one has even done it for one season, let alone their entire conferences history.

So yes, until someone else is willing to discuss numbers and facts then it will seem like I'm manipulating stats and "ignoring the general point"

Every MVFC match up by conference
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Db21AtwrsqJkNXPdlo7cc8sc62gX2Ej26cSjuKS4oXM/edit#gid=0

Every MVFC game every played by each team
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b57xRwifXkvpSbY_s76sfXaixKt4X2IcOUnjkdKSl4w/edit#gid=1377952287


I'm also willing to admit I'm wrong and change my tune. A prime example is when I felt, and still feel, the MVFC got ****ed out of a bid or two in 2013 (I believe) and that the MVFC had a history of getting the shaft on bids. Ursus challenged me and so I used facts and created a spread sheet, and call other MVFC fans out when they pull that ****.

History of every single playoff bid ever
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Db21AtwrsqJkNXPdlo7cc8sc62gX2Ej26cSjuKS4oXM/edit#gid=0

[SUPharmacist]

I'd like to know what I'm manipulating. I'm literally pulling wins/losses and box scores.

I'm asking for others to do the same. I do it all of the time. I've put to spread sheet together for every single MVFC game against other FCS teams ever played...I mean every game ever as FCS match ups.

I've challenged, begged, others to do the same so we can compare better and actually discuss in facts rather than "Yeah, ignore the general point". What the hell does that even mean?

No one has even done it for one season, let alone their entire conferences history.

So yes, until someone else is willing to discuss numbers and facts then it will seem like I'm manipulating stats and "ignoring the general point"

Every MVFC match up by conference
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Db21AtwrsqJkNXPdlo7cc8sc62gX2Ej26cSjuKS4oXM/edit#gid=0

Every MVFC game every played by each team
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b57xRwifXkvpSbY_s76sfXaixKt4X2IcOUnjkdKSl4w/edit#gid=1377952287


I'm also willing to admit I'm wrong and change my tune. A prime example is when I felt, and still feel, the MVFC got ****ed out of a bid or two in 2013 (I believe) and that the MVFC had a history of getting the shaft on bids. Ursus challenged me and so I used facts and created a spread sheet, and call other MVFC fans out when they pull that ****.

History of every single playoff bid ever
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Db21AtwrsqJkNXPdlo7cc8sc62gX2Ej26cSjuKS4oXM/edit#gid=0

Holy ****, I was saying in general stats can be manipulated. I was trying to acknowledge that you are making your point in the fairest way possible, and trying to see how else the other poster would like you to argue your point. I appreciate the work you put in, because lord knows I am not going to do it and it lets you not look like a homer. Have I seen many (including you) parse out specific scenarios in a way that could be considered manipulating stats? Yes. Do I think you did that here? No.

[Lehigh'98]

Yes. The first half of the season was a complete cluster ****. I'm not going to delve into it but the UNI that took the field in Fargo in December crushes the UNI team that took the field in Fargo in September (The week after the Illinois State loss) for a number of reasons. Game was horrendous to watch. UNI out gained Illinois State. The difference in that game was the offense early in the season vs late in the season. UNI had two possession in the 4th that ended in short FGs that started in ISU territory and didn't get a TD.


The MVFC would still be the best conference without NDSU, but the parity would be much, much closer mainly because multiple conferences would have won Natty's and as shown other conferences have been represented from the QF's on in the playoffs. If you don't think that's the case, then we just disagree here. No amount of stats would change that.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It could happen according to Craig Haley

https://twitter.com/CraigHaley/status/735833878024310785

Check that out clenz.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

6 playoff teams??

I suppose it is possible but would the "politics" in that committee room allow it??

If it did happen, every team would be on the same side of the bracket....xlolx........xsmhx

[F'N Hawks]

6 playoff teams??

I suppose it is possible but would the "politics" in that committee room allow it??

If it did happen, every team would be on the same side of the bracket....xlolx........xsmhx

The politics in the room are what got the MVFC five last year. Why not six?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The politics in the room are what got the MVFC five last year. Why not six?


If 6 deserve to be in then they should all be in.

[POD Knows]

The politics in the room are what got the MVFC five last year. Why not six?

Better luck this year.

[UNHWildcat18]

This is an excellent post. If you look at who would have been the National Champs had NDSU not been in it.
2011 - Most likely SHSU
2012 - Most likely G. Southern or SHSU
2013 - Probably Towson.
2014 - Illinois St/UNH
2015 - Wide open, no one was a lock.

Without NDSU, the parity in the playoffs by conference is pretty good since their run started.

Sorry had to fix 2014 for you. UNH injured six starters in the game after going up 18-9. NDSU beat them with 50 seconds left. Don't think ISUr is a no doubt. SDSU should be thrown in as well. Not that any of this matters. I'm sure the MVFC will get 5 this year

[AmsterBison]

The politics in the room are what got the MVFC five last year. Why not six?

61 yards of offense.

[POD Knows]

61 yards of offense.

xthumbsupx

[F'N Hawks]

61 yards of offense.

xthumbsupx

[344Johnson]

The politics in the room are what got the MVFC five last year. Why not six?

Idaho State 37 (1-9 vs. D1)
North Dakota 31

I think this may have something to do with that.

[F'N Hawks]

Idaho State 37 (1-9 vs. D1)
North Dakota 31

I think this may have something to do with that.

The old "not who you beat, it's who you lost to" argument. Classic. If you would have watched the game you would know why they lost to a team like Idaho State that throws alot. And Montana two weeks later.

Atmospheric level thinking or message board level. If you had heard how the narrative in the room changed dramatically as evening approached you would know what I am talking about.

[344Johnson]

The old "not who you beat, it's who you lost to" argument. Classic. If you would have watched the game you would know why they lost to a team like Idaho State that throws alot. And Montana two weeks later.

Atmospheric level thinking or message board level. If you had heard how the narrative in the room changed dramatically as evening approached you would know what I am talking about.

I was there. 1st row. UND was the only division 1 team they beat all year. When you lose to a team like that, I don't think you can be overly surprised when you are a bubble team kept out of the playoffs.

[Thumper 76]

The old "not who you beat, it's who you lost to" argument. Classic. If you would have watched the game you would know why they lost to a team like Idaho State that throws alot. And Montana two weeks later.

Atmospheric level thinking or message board level. If you had heard how the narrative in the room changed dramatically as evening approached you would know what I am talking about.

xlolx Not making the playoffs is UND's Bill Fette incident to be beaten to death for years to come.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[F'N Hawks]

xlolx Not making the playoffs is UND's Bill Fette incident to be beaten to death for years to come.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you would've heard how it actually went down you wouldn't forget either. That committee makes Congress look ethical.

Which is why I said why not six?

[BisonFan02]

61 yards of offense.

That's 61 more yards than they should have gotten....really should've just stepped on their dicks even more and sent them packing in the 2nd half. xthumbsupx

[F'N Hawks]

That's 61 more yards than they should have gotten....really should've just stepped on their dicks even more and sent them packing in the 2nd half. xthumbsupx

xthumbsupxxnodxxlolxxthumbsupx:Dxdrunkyx;)xbowx

[BisonTru]

If you would've heard how it actually went down you wouldn't forget either. That committee makes Congress look ethical.


https://media.giphy.com/media/1iTnzFRFQwDpv3C8/giphy.gif

[344Johnson]

That's 61 more yards than they should have gotten....really should've just stepped on their dicks even more and sent them packing in the 2nd half. xthumbsupx

It's my fault. Me and the ladyfriend left at halftime to go watch some competitive football.

[BisonFan02]

xthumbsupxxnodxxlolxxthumbsupx:Dxdrunkyx;)xbowx

You forgot something about still having the Nickel and a dash of hockey. B- on your part. Do better. xpeacex

[Thumper 76]

If you would've heard how it actually went down you wouldn't forget either. That committee makes Congress look ethical.

Which is why I said why not six?

So do you have legitimate sources or just bar rumors?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That's 61 more yards than they should have gotten....really should've just stepped on their dicks even more and sent them packing in the 2nd half. xthumbsupx


The no names had something like -4 yards on the starters....xlolx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The old "not who you beat, it's who you lost to" argument. Classic. If you would have watched the game you would know why they lost to a team like Idaho State that throws alot. And Montana two weeks later.

Atmospheric level thinking or message board level. If you had heard how the narrative in the room changed dramatically as evening approached you would know what I am talking about.




xrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesx


xbabycryx

[Bison56]

If you would've heard how it actually went down you wouldn't forget either. That committee makes Congress look ethical.

Which is why I said why not six?

Why don't you tell us how it went down?

[F'N Hawks]

Why don't you tell us how it went down?

Why don't you guys stop doubting everything you hear when you don't know anything about the subject?

But since you asked, the ISU AD told the UND staff about how the narrative changed late in the day from what they were discussing. Suddenly, Western Illinois and Eastern Illinois were being heavily discussed and the other teams were not.
Idiot Mark Wilson goes on the radio and starts saying how they were up til the early hours of the morning and had such a tough job. The reason he did that is because he knew UND was playing out in Poly at midnight eastern time so he had to say something like that to act like they were still considering them. UND kicked the hell out of Poly and still didn't make it. The ISU AD was outraged the next day about how it all went down but was powerless based on numbers.

[frozennorth]

Why don't you guys stop doubting everything you hear when you don't know anything about the subject?

thats awful advice. Your anecdote says nothing.

[IBleedYellow]

The old "not who you beat, it's who you lost to" argument. Classic. If you would have watched the game you would know why they lost to a team like Idaho State that throws alot. And Montana two weeks later.

Atmospheric level thinking or message board level. If you had heard how the narrative in the room changed dramatically as evening approached you would know what I am talking about.
I'm not one to like the who you lost to argument since we lost to USD, but meh. I think WIU beats you guys head to head last year, fwiw.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

I'm not one to like the who you lost to argument since we lost to USD, but meh. I think WIU beats you guys head to head last year, fwiw.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I dislike UND as much as the next guy but UND was playing better football at the end of the year. The WIU team I saw in the dome was a disgrace. UND 6 WIU 3 on a last second field goal.

[Thumper 76]

Why don't you guys stop doubting everything you hear when you don't know anything about the subject?

But since you asked, the ISU AD told the UND staff about how the narrative changed late in the day from what they were discussing. Suddenly, Western Illinois and Eastern Illinois were being heavily discussed and the other teams were not.
Idiot Mark Wilson goes on the radio and starts saying how they were up til the early hours of the morning and had such a tough job. The reason he did that is because he knew UND was playing out in Poly at midnight eastern time so he had to say something like that to act like they were still considering them. UND kicked the hell out of Poly and still didn't make it. The ISU AD was outraged the next day about how it all went down but was powerless based on numbers.

Can't just go off of vague references and know what happened that's why we asked. Still pretty vague, but I get what you are upset about. It's because they weren't a part of the discussion at the end. I guess I get that. Obviously that's assuming your he said he said is all 100% accurate, I'm assuming you are connected to the AD in some for or fashion. Why wouldn't the big sky or the ADs come out publicly? Or maybe they did and I missed it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BisonBacker]

I don't see why not. NDSU, UNI, SDSU, YSU, ISUr should all get in. If WIU builds on last year, they could easily as well. Only thing is six is a bit of overkill imo. Like last year, WIU had a case to get in, but we all knew they weren't making it to the finals.

I don't blame this on the MVFC though. It's up to the other conferences to generate more playoff quality teams. If they don't, then by all means, put six valley teams in. I'd still like to see at large teams from other conf (not the Pioneer) with 10-1 or 9-2 records have a shot though before a fifth or sixth team from any one conf, just my personal opionion.


There are representatives from some conferences that we all know aren't going to make it to the finals......Just saying.

[clenz]

Also the MVFC rep was on his out as UNI AD at the time of the selections. He interviewed for the Tulane job while there.

[Bisonoline]

Why don't you guys stop doubting everything you hear when you don't know anything about the subject?

But since you asked, the ISU AD told the UND staff about how the narrative changed late in the day from what they were discussing. Suddenly, Western Illinois and Eastern Illinois were being heavily discussed and the other teams were not.
Idiot Mark Wilson goes on the radio and starts saying how they were up til the early hours of the morning and had such a tough job. The reason he did that is because he knew UND was playing out in Poly at midnight eastern time so he had to say something like that to act like they were still considering them. UND kicked the hell out of Poly and still didn't make it. The ISU AD was outraged the next day about how it all went down but was powerless based on numbers.

There was also a BSC rep that was pushing UND at the expense of the other teams.

[AmsterBison]

Six teams is too many, btw. Don't need more intra-conference rematches in the playoffs.

[BisonFan02]

I dislike UND as much as the next guy but UND was playing better football at the end of the year. The WIU team I saw in the dome was a disgrace. UND 6 WIU 3 on a last second field goal.

True, but that NDSU team at the end of the year was a pretty fair amount better as well.....especially on D.

[POD Knows]

True, but that NDSU team at the end of the year was a pretty fair amount better as well.....especially on D.

24 teams is too many, way to watered down, neither UND or WIU deserved to be in it

[BisonTru]

I dislike UND as much as the next guy but UND was playing better football at the end of the year. The WIU team I saw in the dome was a disgrace. UND 6 WIU 3 on a last second field goal.

I had Western easily ahead of UND. The Leathernecks had 3 wins vs. other teams in the playoff field including both UNI and SDSU who were firmly in. And they had 1 loss to a non playoff team and that was YSU by 2.

[BisonFan02]

24 teams is too many, way to watered down, neither UND or WIU deserved to be in it

It is, but with the # of automatic bids at the time, 24 teams was mandatory. With the MEAC taking their ball and going home....they could technically cut it back down to 20 I believe. They won't do it, but that is besides the point.

[SDFS]

I think the thing that most UND fans have reacted to is that the 7 wins has always been the standard. Here is an interview with one the 2015 playoff committee members UNI AD Troy Dannen. One year he makes statements like that and then the next year – he is obviously advocating for something completely different. I think people are looking for consistency.

Watch the youtube video yourself. He states more than once during a 4 minute interview about 7 wins being an absolute must / minimum. You can’t have this type of inconsistency and maintain any credibility. Dannen looks like an absolute homer with no credibility.

Listen at the 1:07 mark, then again at 1:37, and again at 3:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCotwOXYY44

[clenz]

You clearly know nothing of Troy

[SDFS]

You clearly know nothing of Troy

You are correct, I have never meet the man. I noticed that you didn't comment about the interview. If look at the playoff field produced by the committee last year and watch the video..... it leaves many questions?

[BisonTru]

I think the thing that most UND fans have reacted to is that the 7 wins has always been the standard. Here is an interview with one the 2015 playoff committee members UNI AD Troy Dannen. One year he makes statements like that and then the next year – he is obviously advocating for something completely different. I think people are looking for consistency.

Watch the youtube video yourself. He states more than once during a 4 minute interview about 7 wins being an absolute must / minimum. You can’t have this type of inconsistency and maintain any credibility. Dannen looks like an absolute homer with no credibility.

Listen at the 1:07 mark, then again at 1:37, and again at 3:37

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCotwOXYY44

From your video.

"By rule 6 wins gets you into consideration"

It's also stated in the rules. I can provide a link and quote if you need it, but it's been posted many times over.

Western Illinois won enough games to be in consideration and once you start stacking up resumes, they, IMO, have a better one than UND. I don't believe they were the last one in. I'd easily put them over UNH and EIU. I think EIU may have benefited a little from JSU being number one. It would have been a little difficult to place JSU as the best team in the country and not give any other team from that conference a spot.

So then we come down to UNH vs. UND, which I think probably was the debate for the last spot with Towson and Western Carolina getting some talk as well. For me both UNH and UND had very similar resumes. Both had a nice victory (PSU, Richmond), but both had some losses to some pretty poor teams. I personally gave UND the nod with the Wyoming win as the penny that tipped the scale.

It was very close, the committee gave UNH the nod. Maybe its east coast bias xcoolx, maybe their past success, hell maybe they didn't want to break UNH's playoff streak with a controversial bubble burst. JMO, but I would look at UNH and EIU as teams that should have been bumped to make room for your squad, and to boot both performed poorly once they got in.

[SDFS]

From your video.
"By rule 6 wins gets you into consideration"


You watched that video and that what you got that from it and yes, I have read the rule on 6 wins.... and here is the complete statement he made on the video...

It’s the number of wins. 8 in a 12 game year and 7 in an 11 game year are really the absolute minimums. Now, by rule 6 gets you considered but its gonna be hard once you get down below 7 or 8 to really be on the table.

[BisonTru]

You watched that video and that what you got that from it and yes, I have read the rule on 6 wins.... and here is the complete statement he made on the video...

It’s the number of wins. 8 in a 12 game year and 7 in an 11 game year are really the absolute minimums. Now, by rule 6 gets you considered but its gonna be hard once you get down below 7 or 8 to really be on the table.

And in '14 they put in a 7 win team in a 12 game year. So... it's not an absolute minimum. Six is the absolute minimum. I don't care what Dannen said and I think for the most part he's talking to UNI media and fans and somewhat talking what UNI will need to really have a good shot at the playoffs. If you play in the NEC you need closer to 9 or 10 to get consideration for an at large, and that probably won't get it done. I believe Lehigh got snubbed at 10-1.

And personally I hate the "we got to this number and they didn't" argument. What did you do? Who did you beat? Who did you lose to? Your whole resume comes into play and Western Ill. had a better one, and IMO had a better football team. Like I said I certainly thought you guys were a better football team than EIU and I also would have inched you guys a little ahead of UNH.

[POD Knows]

I had Western easily ahead of UND. The Leathernecks had 3 wins vs. other teams in the playoff field including both UNI and SDSU who were firmly in. And they had 1 loss to a non playoff team and that was YSU by 2.

"Easily" ahead? WIU had a tougher schedule but I watched them play three times and I must of caught them on bad day because they looked like ****. Given the schedules of both teams, WIU probably gets the nod but money would be on UND head to head at the end of the year.

[UNIFanSince1983]

WIU was quite a bit better than EIU though. Not only did they beat them 33-5 early in the year, but WIU came into the UNI-Dome and won where as EIU came into the Dome and got SMOKED.

I don't see why there is an infatuation with UND vs WIU when that shouldn't even be the comparison. WIU had head and shoulders the better resume even with one less win. Your best win was Portland State. Then you had a loss to Idaho State. I think you can blame not getting in on that game right there. WIU beat both UNI an SDSU. Their worst loss was to YSU who was much better than Idaho State. Then compare the two best wins and I think UNI and SDSU are better wins than PSU and NoCo. Seriously NoCo was your second best win and they were 3-5 in the Big Sky.

[F'N Hawks]

WIU was quite a bit better than EIU though. Not only did they beat them 33-5 early in the year, but WIU came into the UNI-Dome and won where as EIU came into the Dome and got SMOKED.

I don't see why there is an infatuation with UND vs WIU when that shouldn't even be the comparison. WIU had head and shoulders the better resume even with one less win. Your best win was Portland State. Then you had a loss to Idaho State. I think you can blame not getting in on that game right there. WIU beat both UNI an SDSU. Their worst loss was to YSU who was much better than Idaho State. Then compare the two best wins and I think UNI and SDSU are better wins than PSU and NoCo. Seriously NoCo was your second best win and they were 3-5 in the Big Sky.

I would agree the easy argument is against New Hampshire and Eastern Illinois. The only reason I heard for EIU getting in was that the OVC "deserved two teams". Dohkay, great argument. They beat nobody. Go back to what I said earlier about the politics and that plays right into it.

The main reason I can't seem to get over it is because it was basically called a sham process by a member of the committee to Fullerton and the UND staff.

If it was a team like SHSU, New Hampshire, etc. who got hosed their fans probably wouldn't have cared because they always get in. UND has never made the playoffs and after a long, ****ty transition it would have been huge for the program.

[POD Knows]

I would agree the easy argument is against New Hampshire and Eastern Illinois. The only reason I heard for EIU getting in was that the OVC "deserved two teams". Dohkay, great argument. They beat nobody. Go back to what I said earlier about the politics and that plays right into it.

The main reason I can't seem to get over it is because it was basically called a sham process by a member of the committee to Fullerton and the UND staff.

If it was a team like SHSU, New Hampshire, etc. who got hosed their fans probably wouldn't have cared because they always get in. UND has never made the playoffs and after a long, ****ty transition it would have been huge for the program.

So sympathy has to be part of the determining factor?

[F'N Hawks]

So sympathy has to be part of the determining factor?

What determining factor?

I was talking as a fan, I cannot get over it because UND had never made it. I never said they needed to get in because they never made it before.

[POD Knows]

What determining factor?

I was talking as a fan, I cannot get over it because UND had never made it. I never said they needed to get in because they never made it before.

I was just breaking your balls,

[BisonTru]

"Easily" ahead? WIU had a tougher schedule but I watched them play three times and I must of caught them on bad day because they looked like ****. Given the schedules of both teams, WIU probably gets the nod but money would be on UND head to head at the end of the year.

What were the two other games you watched that they looked like ****?

[POD Knows]

What were the two other games you watched that they looked like ****?

I counted the playoff game against Dayton and I understand that was after WIU was already chosen for the playoffs but they played like **** and looked like **** most of the game. I saw most of the WIU/ISUb game, I understand that WIU won that game but OK. I also saw part of the Illini/WIU game and I understand that Illinois is Big Ten team but a ****ty Big Ten team and that was an ass kicking. I also understand that WIU was probably a better team than EIU or NH but the conversation on here was trending towards discussion regarding the team's record at 6 wins.

[Mayville Bison]

I think the issue from outside the MVFC is the following:

It's a top shelf FCS conference. No doubt.

Its reputation of dominance though lies squarely on the NDSU shoulders. The rest of the top tier are solid programs, but generally no better than the rest of us that chase NDSU.

I respect the rest, but if any of our better CAA teams were matched up against the others I would expect to compete with any 1 of them.

Recent years NDSU, UNI, & Illinois State have been consistently in the top 10 or so. The others for the most part have been able to live off the reputation. Some are better like SDSU, but it really comes down to NDSU destroying all comers.

Take away NDSU and you have Illinois State as the only MVFC team making the championship game during the Bison run. Last year they were stacked up against each other in the bracket, but 2011-2014 they weren't. Only Illinois State in '14 got to the FCS championship game.

Since the 2011 NDSU run the following teams have been in the elite 8:



I agree with the first half of your post - NDSU has definitely raised the value of the MVFC. I mean, how can they not after winning 1 championship, let alone 5 in a row? More than likely whichever team wins the championship next year will be part of the "best conference" in the FCS.

I do have an issue with how you are judging legit teams. Due to regionalization, you aren't going to advance many teams to the elite 8 let alone the championship game.

2015 - 5 teams in. One team never lost, 2 teams eliminated in conference matchups. Remaining two lost the game before a potential conf matchup.
2014 - 5 teams in. One team never lost, 3 teams eliminated in conference matchups. Remaining team lost with little chance for a potential conf matchup.
2013 - 2 teams in. One team never lost. Remaining team lost with little chance for a potential conf matchup.
2012 - 3 teams in. One team never lost (getting sick of seeing that yet?), 1 team eliminated in a conference matchup. Remaining team lost in elite 8.
2011 - 2 teams in. One team never lost. Remaining team lost in elite 8

The 2014 SDSU team was pretty dangerous and could have won a second round game against multiple seeds. 2012 SDSU was also good and could have won other potential second round games. Others have said that the 2015 championship game was actually UNI@NDSU - I disagree, but it still shows how regionalization may have prevented the best two teams from meeting in the championship.

That all being said, I think having 5 teams from the same conference is too much. Most of the time, if you don't finish in the top 2-3, you don't have a realistic shot. I'd rather see other conferences get a second/third team in rather than a 5th or God forbid a 6th team in from any conference. Is that putting the best 24 teams in the playoffs? No, but with automatic bids, we aren't getting that anyways.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I have always been in favor of going back to 16 teams. It is not realistic, but it reduces the water in the playoffs. Also screw auto-bids. Let's just pick the 16 best teams in the country regardless of what conference they are from. Again not realistic, but I would love it.

[BisonTru]

I have always been in favor of going back to 16 teams. It is not realistic, but it reduces the water in the playoffs. Also screw auto-bids. Let's just pick the 16 best teams in the country regardless of what conference they are from. Again not realistic, but I would love it.

Not a fan of 16. You would have to either cut two autos or eliminate autos all together. To me every team in the FCS should have a way to get into the playoffs. AQs are that.

I could get on board with 20 if they eliminated or greatly reduced regionalization. If that's not on the table I say leave it at 24. Four more teams get in and we get four more games. All positives, IMHO.



That all being said, I think having 5 teams from the same conference is too much. Most of the time, if you don't finish in the top 2-3, you don't have a realistic shot. I'd rather see other conferences get a second/third team in rather than a 5th or God forbid a 6th team in from any conference. Is that putting the best 24 teams in the playoffs? No, but with automatic bids, we aren't getting that anyways.

Not a fan of this either. If you limited the number any one conference could send or if the committee started rewarding weaker teams because they finished higher in their conference, you're essentially pushing ADs to seek weaker conferences and schedule weaker competition. I want the exact opposite, a system that rewards teams that play in tougher conferences and also rewards teams that challenge themselves.

Also, I look at the playoffs as more than just a tournament to decide #1. We get the opportunity to see the #4 MVFC team vs. the #1 BSC team or the #1 CAA team vs. both the #1 and #2 teams out of the MVFC. We also saw the #3 MVFC team vs. the #2 BSC team.

[BisonTru]

I counted the playoff game against Dayton and I understand that was after WIU was already chosen for the playoffs but they played like **** and looked like **** most of the game. I saw most of the WIU/ISUb game, I understand that WIU won that game but OK. I also saw part of the Illini/WIU game and I understand that Illinois is Big Ten team but a ****ty Big Ten team and that was an ass kicking. I also understand that WIU was probably a better team than EIU or NH but the conversation on here was trending towards discussion regarding the team's record at 6 wins.

UND lost to Idaho St. at home, and you're concerned about WIU because they didn't beat Dayton or Indiana St by enough and they should have put up a better fight against a B1G team, all these games on the road?

WIU is easily the favorite in a match-up against UND, IMO.

[F'N Hawks]

UND lost to Idaho St. at home, and you're concerned about WIU because they didn't beat Dayton or Indiana St by enough and they should have put up a better fight against a B1G team, all these games on the road?

WIU is easily the favorite in a match-up against UND, IMO.

Matchups and styles. UND would matchup extremely well with WIU as they want to run the ball (but do throw, too) and didn't have Top 5 talent. Plus, the game would have been at UND.

The Idaho State matchup has never been discussed in depth. UND's secondary = true freshman, walk-on true freshman (yikes), true sophomore, and walk-on senior from Sweden (should never have been on the field). The other safety was moved to OLB (what does that tell you?). Oh, and Studsrud left the game in the 3rd quarter with UND up 24-15. UND's backup QB is hands down the worst QB in America (UND lost the next two games he started as well). Mangum and Williams killed their secondary, it was ugly.

[POD Knows]

UND lost to Idaho St. at home, and you're concerned about WIU because they didn't beat Dayton or Indiana St by enough and they should have put up a better fight against a B1G team, all these games on the road?

WIU is easily the favorite in a match-up against UND, IMO.

Like I said, I saw part of the Illini game (terrible), was at the Bison game (horse****-worse performance I have seen from a MVFC team for quite a awhile), Dayton (away game, BFD it is Dayton)and ISUb, yea it was an away game. Their schedule was admittedly tougher than UND, hell if UND finishes at 8-3 in 2016 there could be a case that they aren't playoff worthy given the string of cupcakes they play, so I will concede the point but I think the matchup might be closer than you think.

[clenz]

Matchups and styles. UND would matchup extremely well with WIU as they want to run the ball (but do throw, too) and didn't have Top 5 talent. Plus, the game would have been at UND.

The Idaho State matchup has never been discussed in depth. UND's secondary = true freshman, walk-on true freshman (yikes), true sophomore, and walk-on senior from Sweden (should never have been on the field). The other safety was moved to OLB (what does that tell you?). Oh, and Studsrud left the game in the 3rd quarter with UND up 24-15. UND's backup QB is hands down the worst QB in America (UND lost the next two games he started as well). Mangum and Williams killed their secondary, it was ugly.
So, the committee should have looked at a team with hole after hole after hole after hole after issue after issue and gone

"Yep, that's my bitch I'm going to ride with"

[BisonTru]

Matchups and styles. UND would matchup extremely well with WIU as they want to run the ball (but do throw, too) and didn't have Top 5 talent. Plus, the game would have been at UND.

The Idaho State matchup has never been discussed in depth. UND's secondary = true freshman, walk-on true freshman (yikes), true sophomore, and walk-on senior from Sweden (should never have been on the field). The other safety was moved to OLB (what does that tell you?). Oh, and Studsrud left the game in the 3rd quarter with UND up 24-15. UND's backup QB is hands down the worst QB in America (UND lost the next two games he started as well). Mangum and Williams killed their secondary, it was ugly.

You're self admitting your secondary has much to be desired and then claiming a match-up against one the best wideouts in the MVFC is favorable?

[F'N Hawks]

You're self admitting your secondary has much to be desired and then claiming a match-up against one the best wideouts in the MVFC is favorable?

Yes, because they don't stand in the shotgun and play basketball on grass all game. That is what UND couldn't stop with their poor secondary.

[F'N Hawks]

So, the committee should have looked at a team with hole after hole after hole after hole after issue after issue and gone

"Yep, that's my bitch I'm going to ride with"

Do you really think they looked that deep? C'mon.

You absolutely love explaining to everyone why things happened in a UNI game. So when I state they had two walkon's and a true freshman playing in the secondary it doesn't count? They couldn't stop the pass that game, end of story. And they QB left the game in 3rd quarter.

At the end of the year they had their all-conference safety back and another corner.

[BisonTru]

Yes, because they don't stand in the shotgun and play basketball on grass all game. That is what UND couldn't stop with their poor secondary.

But they could. UND matches up great with a team like Cal-Poly that literally doesn't pass the ball. The leathernecks were more balanced similar to NDSU. NDSU struggled to run the ball against the Hawks so we passed it all over the board. WIU would have tried the same thing albeit they didn't have a quarterback like we did, but they did have a wide receiver who was better than anybody NDSU threw at you guys.

[F'N Hawks]

But they could. UND matches up great with a team like Cal-Poly that literally doesn't pass the ball. The leathernecks were more balanced similar to NDSU. NDSU struggled to run the ball against the Hawks so we passed it all over the board. WIU would have tried the same thing albeit they didn't have a quarterback like we did, but they did have a wide receiver who was better than anybody NDSU threw at you guys.

Kind of a big part of it.

Honestly, I don't even care about WIU. Don't know why I am wasting my time talking about them but it gives me something to do other than work.

[POD Knows]

But they could. UND matches up great with a team like Cal-Poly that literally doesn't pass the ball. The leathernecks were more balanced similar to NDSU. NDSU struggled to run the ball against the Hawks so we passed it all over the board. WIU would have tried the same thing albeit they didn't have a quarterback like we did, but they did have a wide receiver who was better than anybody NDSU threw at you guys.

A case could be made that WIU defense doesn't match up well against UND's offense either. WIU had to be bottom third in rushing defense, granted they maybe played against teams with a little more emphasis on the run game than most conferences but they struggled with the run game.

For the record, I don't like the 24 team playoff format but I have no ideas how to revise it without pulling autobids. There are teams in there that simply do not belong in the playoffs and I would throw UND and WIU in that heap as well as, EIU and NH.

[F'N Hawks]

A case could be made that WIU defense doesn't match up well against UND's offense either. WIU had to be bottom third in rushing defense, granted they maybe played against teams with a little more emphasis on the run game than most conferences but they struggled with the run game.

For the record, I don't like the 24 team playoff format but I have no ideas how to revise it without pulling autobids. There are teams in there that simply do not belong in the playoffs and I would throw UND and WIU in that heap as well as, EIU and NH.

Fair point, if they moved it back to 20 teams there wouldn't be much argument for any of those teams.

[POD Knows]

Fair point, if they moved it back to 20 teams there wouldn't be much argument for any of those teams.

There would still be people arguing . :D

[BisonTru]

A case could be made that WIU defense doesn't match up well against UND's offense either. WIU had to be bottom third in rushing defense, granted they maybe played against teams with a little more emphasis on the run game than most conferences but they struggled with the run game.

They averaged 4.4 yards a rush defensed. About middle of the road for FCS and that's coming from the top conference in the country.



For the record, I don't like the 24 team playoff format but I have no ideas how to revise it without pulling autobids. There are teams in there that simply do not belong in the playoffs and I would throw UND and WIU in that heap as well as, EIU and NH.

The fourth team you would have to eliminate is SHSU.

[POD Knows]

They averaged 4.4 yards a rush defensed. About middle of the road for FCS and that's coming from the top conference in the country.



The fourth team you would have to eliminate is SHSU.

Explain the reference to SHSU, also, I checked the info on WIU's rush D and they were ranked in the 80's in YPG which is ****ty but they were in the middle of the pack in YPC.

[BisonTru]

Explain the reference to SHSU, also, I checked the info on WIU's rush D and they were ranked in the 80's in YPG which is ****ty but they were in the middle of the pack in YPC.

If you wanted to get down to the hypothetical 20 team field the fourth team you would have to remove to get there is SHSU, IMO.

As far as the stats and RuYPG. NC A&T was 2nd. San Diego and Drake were 5th and 7th. How do you think those teams would fair against UND's running game?

[344Johnson]

If you wanted to get down to the hypothetical 20 team field the fourth team you would have to remove to get there is SHSU, IMO.

As far as the stats and RuYPG. NC A&T was 2nd. San Diego and Drake were 5th and 7th. How do you think those teams would fair against UND's running game?


I think....in a hypothetical matchup...PURELY hypothetical...the 7th rated 2015-16 Drake Bulldogs would hold the 2015-16 UND team to 25 yards on 36 carries.

[POD Knows]

If you wanted to get down to the hypothetical 20 team field the fourth team you would have to remove to get there is SHSU, IMO.

As far as the stats and RuYPG. NC A&T was 2nd. San Diego and Drake were 5th and 7th. How do you think those teams would fair against UND's running game?

Terrible, so what's your point. There are really separate divisions in FCS just like there is at the FBS level P5/G5.

[BisonTru]

I think....in a hypothetical matchup...PURELY hypothetical...the 7th rated 2015-16 Drake Bulldogs would hold the 2015-16 UND team to 25 yards on 36 carries.

Good point. Forgot they played. Then the next week Drake gave up almost 300 yards on the ground and 6.6 a carry. Anybody want to guess who that vaunted rushing attack was?

[BisonTru]

Terrible, so what's your point. There are really separate divisions in FCS just like there is at the FBS level P5/G5.

The point is it's really hard to gauge how one team from a completely different conference will stop another teams rushing using stats and how they rank across the country. A better application of stats is to look at MVFC only stats. WIU was second in the conference in passing. However, they were on the lower range for rushing defense. Yet they still were at 4.5 yards/carry defensed. NDSU was at 4.3 yards/carry defensed. NDSU held UND to 0.2 yards/carry.

[POD Knows]

[QUOTE=BisonTru;2344915]If you wanted to get down to the hypothetical 20 team field the fourth team you would have to remove to get there is SHSU, IMO.

Yea, it would have either been them or the Citadel if I recall. NH, EIU and Fordham would have been the other three I think.

[Sycamore62]

you could just individually move it back to 16 teams. Take an off week Thanksgiving weekend and start back up the following weekend. But, no you'll just keep watching and keep bitching.

[Bisonoline]

you could just individually move it back to 16 teams. Take an off week Thanksgiving weekend and start back up the following weekend. But, no you'll just keep watching and keep bitching.

I liked the 16 team format.

[JSUSoutherner]

I don't have a problem with the way it is. It's more football we get to watch and regardless of how many teams are in the field the best team will always hoist the trophy in Frisco.

[Thumper 76]

I don't have a problem with the way it is. It's more football we get to watch and regardless of how many teams are in the field the best team will always hoist the trophy in Frisco.

This one. Most of the really bad games are from a weak conference auto bid and a strong at large. Generally it's pretty solid football. I thinks it's about good where it is. I wouldn't be broken hearted if it was 20 or so, but it's not a bad thing how it is. Ends up being some match ups we would be pretty happy with during the season so who cares.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clenz]

We can't go to 16. Period

[Mattymc727]

I like 24, the more the merrier. Just seed them 1-24 instead of the regionalization crap they have now. Heck, I would take it to 30 if it was seeded all the way through. Call it December madness.

[BisonFan02]

We can't go to 16. Period

Well....we "could" go back to 16...alot of AQs would go bye bye.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Well....we "could" go back to 16...alot of AQs would go bye bye.

Why do we need any AQs at all? If you are in a top league and deserve to be in you will be in even without an AQ. So just go straight 16, no AQs, and seed it from 1-16.

That is how you get the best tournament and guarantee the best team will win it on the field, and actually have a good shot at getting the two best teams playing in Frisco no matter what conference or region they come from.

[clenz]

Well....we "could" go back to 16...alot of AQs would go bye bye.
Yeah....not going to happen either.

16 is 100% out of the equation.

20 is the bare minimum this year. 22 was the bare minimum the last few years, but that makes for a capitalistic format so 24 is the right number. I doubt they'll drop from 24 to 20 because I know there's a bid given to the Ivy every year, they just abstain, so they could use that as justification to leave it at 24...and they will.

Though I've been wrong before.



Or, I guess the NCAA could entirely rewrite their rule book and get rid of the qualifications for being an NCAA event/tournament. That will never happen as it would affect every sport, not just FCS football.

- - - Updated - - -


Why do we need any AQs at all? If you are in a top league and deserve to be in you will be in even without an AQ. So just go straight 16, no AQs, and seed it from 1-16.

That is how you get the best tournament and guarantee the best team will win it on the field, and actually have a good shot at getting the two best teams playing in Frisco no matter what conference or region they come from.
NCAA laws.

You absolutely have to have an autobid.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Come on we aren't going by the letter of the law. We all know it won't go back down. When was the last time a tournament contracted in the NCAA?

It is a fun hypothetical, though, and I personally think my scenario is the best xpeacex

[Professor Chaos]

Why do we need any AQs at all? If you are in a top league and deserve to be in you will be in even without an AQ. So just go straight 16, no AQs, and seed it from 1-16.

That is how you get the best tournament and guarantee the best team will win it on the field, and actually have a good shot at getting the two best teams playing in Frisco no matter what conference or region they come from.
IMO, the AQs are what make it a true tournament and not just an invitational. I really like the fact every FCS team begins the season with a chance to win a national championship, no matter how unrealistic that goal is. I think that's a far superior model from FBS where half the teams know they've got no shot at a championship even if they win every game they play. I don't see the allure of ditching the NEC or PFL AQ for the 5th or 6th team from the MVFC or CAA. Sure, the NEC or PFL AQ has very little shot at a national championship but the 5th team out of the "power conferences" doesn't have a much better shot. Similarly but on a lesser scale than the NCAA basketball tournament it would be a big deal for one of those NEC/PFL schools to win a game or two in the playoffs whereas for a mediocre MVFC team it's probably looked at as just some fool's gold in a season of lost opportunities.

I like the 16+ team format that gives AQs to every FCS conference that wants one not only for the above reason but because it allows the top teams to avoid playing on crappy Thanksgiving weekend and it gives the break in between the semis and the championship for teams to get healthy and fans to arrange travel.

[Yote 53]

I think the #5 team out of the MVFC would have a much better shot, actually a pretty legit shot, at winning a NC than the NEC or PFL Champ. Let's say the order of finish in the MVFC this year is:

NDSU
UNI
ISUred
SDSU
YSU

YSU is the #5 team but I would give them a shot because on any given day they are more than capable of beating any team in the country. Also, as you know, the order of finish in the MVFC can get somewhat jumbled from 2-6. The #5 seed could easily be a UNI or SDSU or any number of quality teams in the conference.

[344Johnson]

IMO, the AQs are what make it a true tournament and not just an invitational. I really like the fact every FCS team begins the season with a chance to win a national championship, no matter how unrealistic that goal is. I think that's a far superior model from FBS where half the teams know they've got no shot at a championship even if they win every game they play. I don't see the allure of ditching the NEC or PFL AQ for the 5th or 6th team from the MVFC or CAA. Sure, the NEC or PFL AQ has very little shot at a national championship but the 5th team out of the "power conferences" doesn't have a much better shot. Similarly but on a lesser scale than the NCAA basketball tournament it would be a big deal for one of those NEC/PFL schools to win a game or two in the playoffs whereas for a mediocre MVFC team it's probably looked at as just some fool's gold in a season of lost opportunities.

I like the 16+ team format that gives AQs to every FCS conference that wants one not only for the above reason but because it allows the top teams to avoid playing on crappy Thanksgiving weekend and it gives the break in between the semis and the championship for teams to get healthy and fans to arrange travel.

Weird...multiple conferences don't have a shot at winning the tourney.

[Professor Chaos]

I think the #5 team out of the MVFC would have a much better shot, actually a pretty legit shot, at winning a NC than the NEC or PFL Champ. Let's say the order of finish in the MVFC this year is:

NDSU
UNI
ISUred
SDSU
YSU

YSU is the #5 team but I would give them a shot because on any given day they are more than capable of beating any team in the country. Also, as you know, the order of finish in the MVFC can get somewhat jumbled from 2-6. The #5 seed could easily be a UNI or SDSU or any number of quality teams in the conference.
Define "legit". I highly doubt the 5th best team in any conference is a real championship contender. Say if we're putting odds on winning the championship before last year's playoffs Dayton and Duquesne would've probably been 500-1 and WIU would've probably been 100-1. WIU would have a better chance but still not a real title contender, just like Dayton and Duquesne weren't real title contenders. The #5 team in the MVFC could win a game but that team isn't going to win 4 straight games against playoff caliber competition or they'd have done it in the regular season. My point is most everyone beyond the top 8 are filler, just like most everyone in the NCAA basketball tournament beyond the top 16 are filler. I think there's more benefit to the subdivision having that filler be from more conferences rather than less.


Weird...multiple conferences don't have a shot at winning the tourney.
The only ones that don't have a shot are the ones that choose not to have their champion participate in the playoffs. Every team in every conference that has an AQ controls its own destiny and doesn't have to rely on a committee to give them a chance.... much better than how the FBS excludes conferences.

[UNHWildcat18]

Weird...multiple conferences don't have a shot at winning the tourney.

This^

[POD Knows]

Weird...multiple conferences don't have a shot at winning the tourney.

Multiple conferences have little chance of winning a single game in the playoffs

[SUPharmacist]

Weird...multiple conferences don't have a shot at winning the tourney.

The conferences with no shot choose not to participate. All the others use their autobid, and are at least allowed to see how they measure up. No one is locked out, so there is always the hope of a magical season.

[POD Knows]

The conferences with no shot choose not to participate. All the others use their autobid, and are at least allowed to see how they measure up. No one is locked out, so there is always the hope of a magical season.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22553&stc=1

[REALBird]

Sorry had to fix 2014 for you. UNH injured six starters in the game after going up 18-9. NDSU beat them with 50 seconds left. Don't think ISUr is a no doubt. SDSU should be thrown in as well. Not that any of this matters. I'm sure the MVFC will get 5 this year

2014: Illinois State (fixed that for you again)

Shouldn't have had to go to EWU or UNH that year. NDSU and Illinois State were clearly #1 and #2.

UNH was a tough out, but we had something to do with those injuries and gutted out W on the road. That game should have been in Normal.

[UNHWildcat18]

2014: Illinois State (fixed that for you again)

Shouldn't have had to go to EWU or UNH that year. NDSU and Illinois State were clearly #1 and #2.

UNH was a tough out, but we had something to do with those injuries and gutted out W on the road. That game should have been in Normal.

While I believe we should have been number 2 behind NDSU, we should absolutely not have been behind you. You didn't cause all 6, definitely caused our back up QB one though lol. Regardless of injuries we were up into the fourth. Your "no doubt" just doesn't hold IMO. Not saying you don't win it that year without NDSU and it was an impressive road win,but you aren't winning 10/10 vs UNH that year. MVFC won't get more than 5 this year. I don't think they will grant another 6-5 either.

[Twentysix]

While I believe we should have been number 2 behind NDSU, we should absolutely not have been behind you. You didn't cause all 6, definitely caused our back up QB one though lol. Regardless of injuries we were up into the fourth. Your "no doubt" just doesn't hold IMO. Not saying you don't win it that year without NDSU and it was an impressive road win,but you aren't winning 10/10 vs UNH that year. MVFC won't get more than 5 this year. I don't think they will grant another 6-5 either.

There will be a glut of ****ty teams in the last 3-5 spots every single year. I wouldn't make bold claims like this because I fully expect to see another 6-5 team in the playoffs as an at large within the next 2-3 11 game seasons.

While people say top 16 or whatever, the top 5 or 6 teams are really the only ones with a chance to win a championship most years, and in the last 3 years or so no one has had a shot in hell other than the MVFC and GSU.

[Mayville Bison]

There will be a glut of ****ty teams in the last 3-5 spots every single year. I wouldn't make bold claims like this because I fully expect to see another 6-5 team in the playoffs as an at large within the next 2-3 11 game seasons.

While people say top 16 or whatever, the top 5 or 6 teams are really the only ones with a chance to win a championship most years, and in the last 3 years or so no one has had a shot in hell other than the MVFC and GSU.

Come on, SHSU had NDSU on the ropes so much that NDSU was forced to run the same dive play 6 plays in a row. Anything more complicated would have resulted in lost yards

[UNHWildcat18]

There will be a glut of ****ty teams in the last 3-5 spots every single year. I wouldn't make bold claims like this because I fully expect to see another 6-5 team in the playoffs as an at large within the next 2-3 11 game seasons.

While people say top 16 or whatever, the top 5 or 6 teams are really the only ones with a chance to win a championship most years, and in the last 3 years or so no one has had a shot in hell other than the MVFC and GSU.

You have a point and it was a little bold on my part. However when I look at last season. We talk about less conference matchups in the playoffs and having more teams get in since we have expanded so much. They take WIU at 6-5. Don't get me wrong I totally see how they get in over the 2-3 7-4 teams left out. They struggle to beat a pioneer team until the 4th quarter, then go on to get beat soundly at ISUr. While I agree that we should put the best teams in I can see the committee in the future taking one of the 7-4 teams regardless of SOS for "diversity and non second round conference rematches, since you know they won't fix regionalization completely" I'm not saying this happens every year, and I'm not saying it would be the right call from a competitive standpoint. I can just see it happening.

[Twentysix]

Im not saying i agree with 6-5 teams being in the playoffs, only that it is our reality.

[clenz]

People keep forgetting that WIU technically finished 3rd in the MVFC last season...

Pretty rough to take the 4th and 5th place teams from a conference but not the third place team, especially when that third place team beat the 4th place team in the 4th place teams building and beat the 5th place team the final week of the season without their starting QB....