Eastern Michigan considering drop to FCS?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/04/20/terry-foster-eastern-michigan-analyzing-football-program-after-athletic-department-lost-52-million-over-the-last-two-years/

I assume by "Division II" they mean the FCS.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/04/20/terry-foster-eastern-michigan-analyzing-football-program-after-athletic-department-lost-52-million-over-the-last-two-years/

I assume by "Division II" they mean the FCS.
They very well may mean D2.

[Thumper 76]

Would be interesting if they went FCS, would they look OVC or would Youngstown try to push the MVFC to bring them in? Or do they decide to go Pioneer after losing that much $. That's like three years worth of the athletic budget at SDSU that they lost. That's crazy.


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[BisonFan02]

Dropping to FCS does nothing. I wouldn't want them in the MVFC. Where would they go?

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Would be interesting if they went FCS, would they look OVC or would Youngstown try to push the MVFC to bring them in? Or do they decide to go Pioneer after losing that much $. That's like three years worth of the athletic budget at SDSU that they lost. That's crazy.


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Hell ****ing no!

[Thumper 76]

Dropping to FCS does nothing. I wouldn't want them in the MVFC. Where would they go?

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Hell ****ing no!

Oh I'm not saying I want them in the conference, but I could see the eastern schools liking them for their location possibly.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Dropping to FCS does nothing. I wouldn't want them in the MVFC. Where would they go?

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Hell ****ing no!


Only looking at it from the outside the PFL might be a good option.

[walliver]

I suspect it is most likely they drop football altogether. From their attendance, it is obvious that nobody really cares.

[bonarae]

The PFL has a lot of quirks for any entering team to make (e.g. loss of all athletic scholarships in football, for instance). D-II or dropping are the more feasible options here.

[clenz]

I suspect it is most likely they drop football altogether. From their attendance, it is obvious that nobody really cares.

MAC won't let them and remain in the conference

[Laker]

The Eastern Michigan athlete that I remember best- The Iceman, George Gervin.

http://www.nasljerseys.com/images/2016/EMU%2070's%20Home%20George%20Gervin.jpg

[Hood]

I went to do some Google-fu research further than the posted article. I instinctively typed "Eastern Washington Eagles" instead of "Eastern Michigan" because apparently EWU has made a better marketing impression in my subconscious than EMU has made in my regular conscious.

[melloware13]

I think one of the problems for EMU is Ypsilanti's proximity to Ann Arbor. If they're not drawing to their students and/or alumni now, I don't know if they'd do any better with any other classification. The casual fan will likely gravitate to Michigan, and odds are that the students/alumni will be less involved.

[Go Green]

The Eastern Michigan athlete that I remember best- The Iceman, George Gervin.

http://www.nasljerseys.com/images/2016/EMU%2070's%20Home%20George%20Gervin.jpg

Dang, he was skinny.

[BisonFan02]

Oh I'm not saying I want them in the conference, but I could see the eastern schools liking them for their location possibly.

**** the eastern schools right in their collective asses. xlolx

[Catsfan90]

I suspect it is most likely they drop football altogether. From their attendance, it is obvious that nobody really cares.
Well, apparently people prefer every direction but East. ...

[Thumper 76]

I think one of the problems for EMU is Ypsilanti's proximity to Ann Arbor. If they're not drawing to their students and/or alumni now, I don't know if they'd do any better with any other classification. The casual fan will likely gravitate to Michigan, and odds are that the students/alumni will be less involved.

You can't tell me that when 100,000+ go to Michigan games you can't find 10,000 to watch some good football, if not more. Especially if your game isn't the same day/time of a Michigan home game.

[Thumper 76]

**** the eastern schools right in their collective asses. xlolx

I think you have to take them to dinner first, but maybe they are trashier out east, I don't know for sure.

[clenz]

You can't tell me that when 100,000+ go to Michigan games you can't find 10,000 to watch some good football, if not more. Especially if your game isn't the same day/time of a Michigan home game.

Spoken like someone who isn't close to a FBS program, more specifically the largest FBS program.

The university of Iowa will get 70k in the stadium and there are another 100-150k in the city strictly for the purpose of being in Iowa City to drink and party.

Now, imagine over 40,000 more people in Michigan Stadium and extrapolate that type of tailgate scene to a school with 40% more students than the U of I (roughly 45k students...so an entire SDSU graduating every single year) playing less than 10 miles from EMU


Yeah. It's just as easy as "you have students so there's not reason to not get 10k every game"

Hell UI impacts UNI even if they aren't at home that weekend.


Another note - Ann Arbors entire population could for in the Big House. Not many people left to be spread around, actually. Michigan Stadium is the 5th largest city in Michigan. Ypsilanti is under 20k in population and connected to Ann Arbor. Not a lot of true ways to build a fan base that would pick them over the biggest name in college football history.

[Thumper 76]

Spoken like someone who isn't close to a FBS program, more specifically the largest FBS program.

The university of Iowa will get 70k in the stadium and there are another 100-150k in the city strictly for the purpose of being in Iowa City to drink and party.

Now, imagine over 40,000 more people in Michigan Stadium and extrapolate that type of tailgate scene to a school with 40% more students than the U of I (roughly 45k students...so an entire SDSU graduating every single year) playing less than 10 miles from EMU


Yeah. It's just as easy as "you have students so there's not reason to not get 10k every game"

Hell UI impacts UNI even if they aren't at home that weekend.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but honestly they had to have had a period of time at some point with attendance to justify being an FBS team. I understand they fudge the hell out of their numbers to get the average to stay, but there had to be some sort of justification for them being a FBS school in there somewhere. UNI manages pretty good crowds even with being right by Iowa. Trust me, I grew up in Wisconsin, I understand the climate of a huge FBS school.

[dgtw]

You can't tell me that when 100,000+ go to Michigan games you can't find 10,000 to watch some good football, if not more. Especially if your game isn't the same day/time of a Michigan home game.

The problem is they don't play good football.

[Hammerhead]

You can't tell me that when 100,000+ go to Michigan games you can't find 10,000 to watch some good football, if not more. Especially if your game isn't the same day/time of a Michigan home game.

EMU hasn't had a winning season in 20 years. Is that good football?

[clenz]

I'm not saying it would be easy, but honestly they had to have had a period of time at some point with attendance to justify being an FBS team. I understand they fudge the hell out of their numbers to get the average to stay, but there had to be some sort of justification for them being a FBS school in there somewhere. UNI manages pretty good crowds even with being right by Iowa. Trust me, I grew up in Wisconsin, I understand the climate of a huge FBS school.

UNI is 90 minutes north of Iowa City and strategically places game times to allow for people to get from Iowa City to Cedar Falls (Iowa is almost always 11 am kick and UNI is almost always a 407 kick) or from wherever they watched the Iowa game. It's close enough to impact but far enough to allow a free identity of a program.

UNI, jokes from NDSU fans aside, is one of the top 5-7 FCS programs of all time and plays really damn good football with a roster of about 80-85 percent Iowa kids.

EMU is a joke of a program ~6 miles, ATBF, from the winningest program in CFB history. NDSU wouldn't draw dick if they were that distance from UM.

[Thumper 76]

EMU hasn't had a winning season in 20 years. Is that good football?

I guess I didn't mean to infer that they were good with that statement. That would be their biggest hurdle. They would need to do some serious winning first. And they would have to strategically schedule like clenz mentioned. But anyways, they obviously aren't drawing in people. I get the reasons. Really I do.

[Thumper 76]

UNI is 90 minutes north of Iowa City and strategically places game times to allow for people to get from Iowa City to Cedar Falls (Iowa is almost always 11 am kick and UNI is almost always a 407 kick) or from wherever they watched the Iowa game. It's close enough to impact but far enough to allow a free identity of a program.

UNI, jokes from NDSU fans aside, is one of the top 5-7 FCS programs of all time and plays really damn good football with a roster of about 80-85 percent Iowa kids.

EMU is a joke of a program ~6 miles, ATBF, from the winningest program in CFB history. NDSU wouldn't draw dick if they were that distance from UM.
xlolx
Aren't you the one usually arguing with fans who use the "we're competing with BCS schools" excuse? (I get it, before you say it, they aren't as close to school x and don't suck as bad as EMU)

[clenz]

xlolx
Aren't you the one usually arguing with fans who use the "we're competing with BCS schools" excuse? (I get it, before you say it, they aren't as close to school x and don't suck as bad as EMU)

There is a difference between competing, which I do call out, and being completely engulfed by the largest program in history

[dgtw]

Are you MVFC people opposed to them because they are a terrible program or are you opposed to expansion in general?


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[Bisonoline]

Are you MVFC people opposed to them because they are a terrible program or are you opposed to expansion in general?


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Terrible program.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Are you MVFC people opposed to them because they are a terrible program or are you opposed to expansion in general?


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Crap program. They would be a middle of the pack team right now, even with 22 more scholarships they have now.

[Twentysix]

Are you MVFC people opposed to them because they are a terrible program or are you opposed to expansion in general?


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The MVFC could add a team with virtually no impact to anyone. Just not EMU.

Conversely, the MVFC could also lose a team (Missouri St or Youngstown) to the detriment of no one. Losing both Youngstown and Missouri State and replacing them with UND would probably be the best possible scenario atm.

[BisonFan02]

Are you MVFC people opposed to them because they are a terrible program or are you opposed to expansion in general?


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Both.

[RootinFerDukes]

Honestly, eastern Michigan might be better off just dropping their fb program all together. If they went to Fcs, they're in an awkward geographic situation and any conference should be demanding their join full time or nothing.
The CAA is out of their area and we don't have any need for them. They would do nothing to advance us IMO. They'd already be one of the worst supported programs in a conference that has generally apathetic fan bases.
The Mvfc probably has no need for them either and it would be a worse geographic fit than the Mac. If the point is to save money, shipping yourself all over the upper Midwest isn't going to solve that problem.
They're well out of the ovc footprint. The nec or pioneer might fit, but with all do respect, if you're dropping that low, why even bother to field a team at that point. Save yourself the money.

[RootinFerDukes]

I went to do some Google-fu research further than the posted article. I instinctively typed "Eastern Washington Eagles" instead of "Eastern Michigan" because apparently EWU has made a better marketing impression in my subconscious than EMU has made in my regular conscious.

Ewu is more relevant in college athletics than emu. This is coming from a guy that lives in va.

[RootinFerDukes]

I'm not saying it would be easy, but honestly they had to have had a period of time at some point with attendance to justify being an FBS team. I understand they fudge the hell out of their numbers to get the average to stay, but there had to be some sort of justification for them being a FBS school in there somewhere. UNI manages pretty good crowds even with being right by Iowa. Trust me, I grew up in Wisconsin, I understand the climate of a huge FBS school.

Many current fbs programs are at that level more as a being grandfathered in by being a member of a conference that was I-A. You can say that for pretty much the entire Mac and the old sun belt, current cusa.
Emu is fbs because they've been in the Mac since at least the 1950s. They "qualified" because they were already there prior to the I-A/I-AA split.

[RootinFerDukes]

Crap program. They would be a middle of the pack team right now, even with 22 more scholarships they have now.

Don't kid yourself. They'd become Missouri state and south Dakota's bitch immediately. They'd be the Rhode Island of the Mvfc.

[BisonFan02]

Don't kid yourself. They'd become Missouri state and south Dakota's bitch immediately. They'd be the Rhode Island of the Mvfc.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b1b912b8d2b0a05ba4ed11fa18d3b1cb/tumblr_mltbgvWyiA1sob2hbo1_500.gif


xlolx

[Thumper 76]

Well clenz has argued that we need some **** programs for the top to feed on. I kinda agree with him....xlolx


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[RootinFerDukes]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b1b912b8d2b0a05ba4ed11fa18d3b1cb/tumblr_mltbgvWyiA1sob2hbo1_500.gif


xlolx

Sorry I don't have much tolerance for crap programs that are in fbs when they have no business being there haha.

[BisonFan02]

Well clenz has argued that we need some **** programs for the top to feed on. I kinda agree with him....xlolx


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https://p.gr-assets.com/540x540/fit/hostedimages/1380311465/688473.gif

[Model Citizen]

They very well may mean D2.
That's exactly what they mean. Conference would be the GLIAC...Grand Valley, Saginaw, etc. Michigan schools on the schedule, and fewer scholarships across the board.

[bonarae]

But which is more likely to happen? It's still on the drawing board, but we'll take a poll now...

Choices are D-II or go Pacific/BU/Northeastern.

I'd go with the latter.

[Catsfan90]

But which is more likely to happen? It's still on the drawing board, but we'll take a poll now...

Choices are D-II or go Pacific/BU/Northeastern.

I'd go with the latter.
In saying drop entirely. If they drop it entirely they have a better chance of saving face then if they drop to Dll. And then of course the Dayton rule would screw over there other teams.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Unsaid in all this talk is the real problem - that EMU would need to drop out of the MAC in football in order to "reclassify".

That their football team sucks is a given, but do they really want out of the MAC in all other sports, and should football be driving that decision?

If they were to consider reclassifying to FCS, they'd have to "reclassify" to the Missouri Valley in all sports, or at least have some sort of arrangement to remain in the MAC in all other sports while becoming an associate member of the MVFC.

Personally I have to think the MFVC potentially gaining some market share in Michigan, while also gaining proximity to Jim Harbaugh training camps, would have to be seen as very interesting.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"HBO dropped a bomb on the school Tuesday night during a Real Sports program that said the athletic department lost $52 million the last two years and ranks last in Division I football attendance."

Yeah that "bomb" available with anyone with an Internet connection and a link to the EADA athletics website. xlolx

[Sader87]

I think a fair amount of non P5 schools are going to start to, at the very least, question remaining in the FBS. Not nearly as well versed in the overall finances of the situation as some here, but 85 scholarships (and the matching 85 via Title IX), all the other ancillary costs of having an FBS program etc etc etc....are going to severely strain many non P5 programs.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Rereading the entire article, it seems little more than one sportswriters' opinion that EMU athletics sucks.

I didn't watch the RealSports segment but it seems like it is the same old pablum about "athletics departments not making money" and "siphoning money from academics to athletics," which as everyone knows on here is a bull**** representation.

[JayJ79]

If they were to consider reclassifying to FCS, they'd have to "reclassify" to the Missouri Valley in all sports, or at least have some sort of arrangement to remain in the MAC in all other sports while becoming an associate member of the MVFC.

Technically, there are no associate members of the MVFC. The MVFC only sponsers one sport: football.
Now whether or not schools who are members of both the MVC and the MVFC hold more power with the conferences, I don't know, as I'm not in on those small council meetings.

But I could see there being complications for EMU retaining MAC membership without a participating football program.

In the big scheme of things, division I football could use a restructuring. The P5 with their massive budgets and media contracts in one tier. A second tier with most of the G5 and the upper echelon of the FCS. And then a third tier with the remainder of the FCS who don't have the resources or desire to fund full complements of scholarships or fully compete in the playoffs. (of course, if there was a restructuring, there could be tweaking to move some schools up or down a level for a better fit). But that would require a fair amount of pride swallowing from many G5 and some FCS schools, so it may not happen even if it makes financial sense.

[DoWe]

Sorry I don't have much tolerance for crap programs that are in fbs when they have no business being there haha.
How do you feel about crap programs that are in fcs when they have no business being there haha?

[catamount man]

I think a fair amount of non P5 schools are going to start to, at the very least, question remaining in the FBS. Not nearly as well versed in the overall finances of the situation as some here, but 85 scholarships (and the matching 85 via Title IX), all the other ancillary costs of having an FBS program etc etc etc....are going to severely strain many non P5 programs.

Yep. There is going to be some major reshuffling at the P5 level in the next few years. I don't think most of those egos could live as FCS so I see football being dropped at some of them.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Gophers to the MVFC. NDSU and UNI to the B10?xsmiley_wix

[RootinFerDukes]

How do you feel about crap programs that are in fcs when they have no business being there haha?

This is a touch hypocritical as a fan of a program that is somewhere between 70-80% subsidized by student fees, but yeah, if you can't stop bleeding money, just drop your program, regardless of your divisional level.
Fwiw I am in favor of JMU cutting athletic spending if we are to stay Fcs. Our budget couldn't be a ****tier return on investment than you'll find in D1 athletics.
We're G5 spending for an Fcs product.

[RootinFerDukes]

Yep. There is going to be some major reshuffling at the P5 level in the next few years. I don't think most of those egos could live as FCS so I see football being dropped at some of them.

Honestly, let them drop their programs. It will hopefully move fans to other programs. Oh who the hell am I kidding, they'll just gravitate to the local P5 program.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This is a touch hypocritical as a fan of a program that is somewhere between 70-80% subsidized by student fees, but yeah, if you can't stop bleeding money, just drop your program, regardless of your divisional level.
Fwiw I am in favor of JMU cutting athletic spending if we are to stay Fcs. Our budget couldn't be a ****tier return on investment than you'll find in D1 athletics.
We're G5 spending for an Fcs product.

I think that the students as a community would be willing to pay for some things to have a certain campus environment. But when it gets very high I think things should definitely start being looked into. Students pay for many things around campus to better the experience that they may not even utilize as we all know.

[bonarae]

I think a fair amount of non P5 schools are going to start to, at the very least, question remaining in the FBS. Not nearly as well versed in the overall finances of the situation as some here, but 85 scholarships (and the matching 85 via Title IX), all the other ancillary costs of having an FBS program etc etc etc....are going to severely strain many non P5 programs.

Plus, the reputation that some of these programs have right now may tank if they go FCS. I don't know what's with Idaho's FB program right now, for instance... they've allowed Boise State to take over as the top CFB program in Idaho. But in non-football sports, they're in the Big Sky. They've kept on putting loopholes in other sports, while allowing FB, their supposed cash cow, to stay FBS... xoopsx

[bonarae]

Yep. There is going to be some major reshuffling at the P5 level in the next few years. I don't think most of those egos could live as FCS so I see football being dropped at some of them.

Or in other words, a "sea change" is coming to Division I football in general? xchinscratchx

[BisonFan02]

Or in other words, a "sea change" is coming to Division I football in general? xchinscratchx

OH yes......that "sea change" has been near for what? 30 years? xthumbsupx Immanent change coming.... :D

[Thumper 76]

Plus, the reputation that some of these programs have right now may tank if they go FCS.

What reputation? Of being absolute dog****?

[bonarae]

What reputation? Of being absolute dog****?

This varies by the status of their football programs. For example, some of these programs are awful to begin with, and they're only in FBS due to their conference affiliation with all or many of their sports (e.g. as in EMU's case), or in binding contracts (I'm not sure if the Sun Bletch has such a clause in their invitees' contracts.)

[dgtw]

The only real geographic fit for them is the MVFC. But that presents a few problems of its own.

1. The MVFC might not want them. It would be a nice fit for the east, but it would give the league eleven members, which means either a ten game schedule or no full round robin.

2. The league is more spread out than the MAC and would require some plane travel for games.

And most importantly....

3. They suck and would get killed. Even with 85 scholarships, they couldn't win the MVFC now.

I really don't see any other options in the FCS. If they drop to DII, they lose out on March Madness money and the chance to play money games against DI schools.

Dropping football would save a lot of money. But would another DI league take them in? The Horizon is in the area, but they areat ten members, would they want an odd number and the headaches that come with that?

[clenz]

MVFC already doesn't have a true round robin. Everyone hates it and wants YSU gone

Of you can't afford a plane for a couple football games per year get the **** out if D1 athletics

[Laker]

I thought that there were several teams in the MAC that had low attendance figures. I know that they won't consider all going FCS but that way they are still in D1. If the Power 5 schools don't schedule them as much in the future, and usually schools just break even (if that) going to minor bowls like in Detroit- wouldn't that be something to consider?

[dgtw]

MVFC already doesn't have a true round robin. Everyone hates it and wants YSU gone

Sorry, misread the standings and made a really bad math error. (7+1=9). xembarrassedx


Of you can't afford a plane for a couple football games per year get the **** out if D1 athletics

I agree. I was just saying if they are dropping down to FCS to save money, they won't be saving much joining the MVFC.


I thought that there were several teams in the MAC that had low attendance figures. I know that they won't consider all going FCS but that way they are still in D1. If the Power 5 schools don't schedule them as much in the future, and usually schools just break even (if that) going to minor bowls like in Detroit- wouldn't that be something to consider?

The MAC schools make a lot of money playing Big Ten teams. Since the Big Ten no longer plays FCS games, they'd lose out on that gravy train if they dropped to FCS.

I do think a lot of the MAC has attendance issues propped up by having sponsors buy a block of tickets at a greatly reduced price or fudging the numbers by counting band members, support staff, referees, etc as part of the "crowd". It would probably benefit the league as a whole if they moved down as a group, but I dobt everyone would agree to that.

[Thumper 76]

The only real geographic fit for them is the MVFC. But that presents a few problems of its own.

1. The MVFC might not want them. It would be a nice fit for the east, but it would give the league eleven members, which means either a ten game schedule or no full round robin.

2. The league is more spread out than the MAC and would require some plane travel for games.

And most importantly....

3. They suck and would get killed. Even with 85 scholarships, they couldn't win the MVFC now.

I really don't see any other options in the FCS. If they drop to DII, they lose out on March Madness money and the chance to play money games against DI schools.

Dropping football would save a lot of money. But would another DI league take them in? The Horizon is in the area, but they areat ten members, would they want an odd number and the headaches that come with that?

1) that's why I posed my question earlier, with the addition of the Dakota schools the eastern schools might try to push for the addition of EMU?

2) clenz is right, if you can't afford some plane tickets for a couple games wtf are you doing in DI?

3) I don't see them being competitive if they join the MVFC, especially with the schools that are going to offer FCOA. Only reason to be in FCS for them is to be able to have a shot for the basketball $.

As to the dropping football and finding a differs conference I would assume they are testing those waters right now. If they find someone that works I think they go for it. If not then it's if they go FCS and find a conference. After that I'd think it would be DII with football or DII without. Interesting situation that could have a ripple effect.

[RootinFerDukes]

Keep in mind no team has dropped from I-A to I-AA since 1981 when a group of schools last did it at once.
I'm definitely in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode when it comes to any schools dropping down. All together dropping their football program is more likely.

[Laker]

Keep in mind no team has dropped from I-A to I-AA since 1981 when a group of schools last did it at once.
I'm definitely in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode when it comes to any schools dropping down. All together dropping their football program is more likely.

I wonder what is going on at Idaho. I haven't heard anything about their situation for awhile. They would be the logical team to join the Big Sky in football.

Would the MAC let EMU stay if they dropped football? That would be the big question.

[clenz]

Would the MAC let EMU stay if they dropped football? That would be the big question.
I'd be willing to be a lot of money the answer is no.

Should they drop football, or want to drop FCS, a school like JMU, Liberty or potentially a UNI, NDSU or ISUr gets a few phone calls. JMU and Liberty take it. I think NDSU and UNI are a "no" for different reasons from the other school, but ISUr would be interesting.

[clenz]

As for cost savings, it very well may exist.
They currently have 11 womens sports and 19 total. Only 14 required for FCS
Drop 22 football rides - in state is about $18k and out of state is about $31k. Let's average that to 25k per student. That's $550,000
I have no idea how strong any EMU programs are but I'd bet we'd also see 2 or 3 womens sports go which would come close to 22 rides.
So lets figure $850k-1mm in savings on scholarships. That's also savings on coaching salaries, travel, recruiting budgets, etc...

They may see 1.5m in savings per year. Now, given how much they are hemorrhaging money (supposedly) that's just a drop in the ocean.

IF they end up outside of the MAC their best option is the Horizon League and going without football.

[PAllen]

That 1.5M in savings per year would be more than offset by the loss of B1G money games.

[clenz]

That 1.5M in savings per year would be more than offset by the loss of B1G money games.
True. I meant to add that but forgot as I got distracted elsewhere.

I don't know what EMU's donations are like, but I know when UNI studied an FBS move along with D2, FCS non-scholly and no football it was found that any cost savings would be, at least, doubled by loss of donations to the athletic department and university.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I thought EMU had some deep-pocketed person or corporation essentially subsidizing its FBS ambitions. I recall some company buying out huge blocks of tickets in an effort to have EMU over the minimum attendance some years ago.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I thought EMU had some deep-pocketed person or corporation essentially subsidizing its FBS ambitions. I recall some company buying out huge blocks of tickets in an effort to have EMU over the minimum attendance some years ago.

Pepsi?????

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

JMHO, but the only drop that will provide cost savings and still provide some regional rivalries would be to D-II and the GLIAC. At least there are some large, public Michigan schools there (Wayne State, Ferris State, Grand Valley State). And when you have 15 members what's one more!

http://www.d2football.com/teams/greatlakesintercollegiateathleticconference/c3/

Still, I'd have to think that losing regional rivalries with Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Toledo and Bowling Green and D-I status would be a very big deal.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Pepsi?????

That sounds right. No context as to how/why, but I do remember Pepsi was involved.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

JMHO, but the only drop that will provide cost savings and still provide some regional rivalries would be to D-II and the GLIAC. At least there are some large, public Michigan schools there (Wayne State, Ferris State, Grand Valley State). And when you have 15 members what's one more!

http://www.d2football.com/teams/greatlakesintercollegiateathleticconference/c3/

Still, I'd have to think that losing regional rivalries with Western Michigan, Central Michigan, Toledo and Bowling Green and D-I status would be a very big deal.

You missed that there is actually a Northern Michigan U. that competes in the GLIAC as well. Home of Jerry Glanville.

[Laker]

You missed that there is actually a Northern Michigan U. that competes in the GLIAC as well. Home of Jerry Glanville.

Don't forget Michigan Tech up at Houghton.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Don't forget Michigan Tech up at Houghton.


Yup! What a location!!

I'm playing Arcadia Bluffs and Forest Dunes next week. I'll be spending the night in Traverse City. That will be the furthest north in Michigan I've been. The UP will be conquered next....

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

You missed that there is actually a Northern Michigan U. that competes in the GLIAC as well. Home of Jerry Glanville.

Didn't miss them, like UNH they play ice hockey after all! Just chose not to list them because I didn't think they had as large an enrollment as the three I did list. And they certainly aren't "regional" like the schools I listed. After all the UP wasn't even Michigan until given to them to offset the wedge given to Ohio after the "Battle of Toledo".

[Laker]

Yup! What a location!!

I'm playing Arcadia Bluffs and Forest Dunes next week. I'll be spending the night in Traverse City. That will be the furthest north in Michigan I've been. The UP will be conquered next....

Went through the UP in the summer of 1970. Took the ferry from Ludington to Manitowac.

Northern Michigan has a dome. Michigan Tech doesn't. My buddy Steve who played o-line for MSU-Mankato told me that there were several inches of snow on the field when he played up there.

[clenz]

My wife keeps telling me that we will vacation up there.

She went up there as a kid and loves the area.

[RootinFerDukes]

I'd be willing to be a lot of money the answer is no.

Should they drop football, or want to drop FCS, a school like JMU, Liberty or potentially a UNI, NDSU or ISUr gets a few phone calls. JMU and Liberty take it. I think NDSU and UNI are a "no" for different reasons from the other school, but ISUr would be interesting.

Rumor is that the only conference our president will bite on is the Mac because the schools in it are "academic peers", while cusa and sbc are not.
We supposedly had a Mac invite all but lined up contingent on umass becoming a full time member. Not surprisingly we had no contingency plan for "what if umass decided to leave and keep their bball in the a10?".
We continue to say no to the sbc and then it goes to ccu as they get tired of waiting for us.
If and when emu leaves the Mac, our fans will be salivating at the opening. It wouldn't surprise me to see Alger balk at that too.

[Laker]

Rumor is that the only conference our president will bite on is the Mac because the schools in it are "academic peers", while cusa and sbc are not.
We supposedly had a Mac invite all but lined up contingent on umass becoming a full time member. Not surprisingly we had no contingency plan for "what if umass decided to leave and keep their bball in the a10?".
We continue to say no to the sbc and then it goes to ccu as they get tired of waiting for us.
If and when emu leaves the Mac, our fans will be salivating at the opening. It wouldn't surprise me to see Alger balk at that too.

Where does UMass plan on going for football? As an independent they will have even less success than they did in the MAC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Does anyone think that NDSU's success might play a factor in a decision that EMU does? EMU might honestly be looking at a school like NDSU dominating the FCS, and saying that's a better goal for EMU than being a laughingstock at the FBS level.

[RootinFerDukes]

Where does UMass plan on going for football? As an independent they will have even less success than they did in the MAC.

Who knows. If they lose enough money, they may just swallow their pride and come back to the CAA. I wish they never left for the crap state they're in now. Their admin gambled on Boston caring about umass and lost that bet.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Who knows. If they lose enough money, they may just swallow their pride and come back to the CAA. I wish they never left for the crap state they're in now. Their admin gambled on Boston caring about umass and lost that bet.

Their plan was goofy from the outset, and was exposed for what it was as soon as they immediately stopped winning.

[ccd494]

Their plan was goofy from the outset, and was exposed for what it was as soon as they immediately stopped winning.

It was that or drop the sport. Worth a shot for a few years. I think UMass football needs a miracle AAC invite to exist in football seven to ten years from now.

[DFW HOYA]

It was that or drop the sport. Worth a shot for a few years. I think UMass football needs a miracle AAC invite to exist in football seven to ten years from now.

They are waiting for the "UConn goes to ACC, AAC comes calling" scenario which remains unlikely until the Big Ten poaches from the ACC. And at that point, what does the southern branch of the old Conference USA need with a team in western Massachusetts?

That's why UMass needs the "Rust Belt" Conference:

Army
Buffalo
Connecticut
Delaware
James Madison
Massachusetts
Marshall
Navy
Temple

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"Eastern Michigan should drop Division I football, and join the Horizon League, where football is not required," the report says. "Alternatively, EMU can still play football, but at the Division II or Division III (non-scholarship) level within the Horizon League, which would save even more resources. The advantage of joining the Horizon League is EMU athletes could still compete at the Division I level in Olympic and other non-revenue sports, but spend much less."

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/04/25/emu-faculty-students-drop-out-division-football/83493156/

The report is wrong. It is either FBS, FCS scholarship (whether at 0 or 63 scholarships), or dropping football altogether. Which really makes one debate whether the report is worth the paper it's printed on.

If they're serious about leaving the MAC for the Horizon, it would be a serious downgrade in hoops.

[clenz]

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/04/25/emu-faculty-students-drop-out-division-football/83493156/

The report is wrong. It is either FBS, FCS scholarship (whether at 0 or 63 scholarships), or dropping football altogether. Which really makes one debate whether the report is worth the paper it's printed on.
Yeah....very wrong.

I don't normally point stuff like that out on social media, but I had to in this case.

[Daytripper]

Spoken like someone who isn't close to a FBS program, more specifically the largest FBS program.

The university of Iowa will get 70k in the stadium and there are another 100-150k in the city strictly for the purpose of being in Iowa City to drink and party.

Now, imagine over 40,000 more people in Michigan Stadium and extrapolate that type of tailgate scene to a school with 40% more students than the U of I (roughly 45k students...so an entire SDSU graduating every single year) playing less than 10 miles from EMU


Yeah. It's just as easy as "you have students so there's not reason to not get 10k every game"

Hell UI impacts UNI even if they aren't at home that weekend.


Another note - Ann Arbors entire population could for in the Big House. Not many people left to be spread around, actually. Michigan Stadium is the 5th largest city in Michigan. Ypsilanti is under 20k in population and connected to Ann Arbor. Not a lot of true ways to build a fan base that would pick them over the biggest name in college football history.



Yep. Try being within 4 hours of five serious FBS schools (UT, TAMU, Baylor, TCU, UH).

[clenz]

Yep. Try being within 4 hours of five serious FBS schools (UT, TAMU, Baylor, TCU, UH).
Iowa - 1 hour 26 minutes
Iowa State - 1 hour 28 minutes
Wisconsin - 3 hours 5 minues
Minnesota - 3 hours 20 minutes
Nebraksa - 4 hours 20 minutes
Illinois - 4 hours 40 minutes


I know 2 of those are technically over but they are schools with large number of fans around us. Mizzou is less than 5 hours, Notre Dame is also just over 5 hours depending how you deal with Chicago.

[bluehenbillk]

No wonder no one goes to their games, big brother is 10 miles away....

GO BLUE!!

[Daytripper]

Iowa - 1 hour 26 minutes
Iowa State - 1 hour 28 minutes
Wisconsin - 3 hours 5 minues
Minnesota - 3 hours 20 minutes
Nebraksa - 4 hours 20 minutes
Illinois - 4 hours 40 minutes


I know 2 of those are technically over but they are schools with large number of fans around us. Mizzou is less than 5 hours, Notre Dame is also just over 5 hours depending how you deal with Chicago.

Wow... We are in similar circumstances...

Of course, I left out Rice, SMU, Texas State and UTSA. Oh, and only about 6.5 hours to LSU.

[FU2010]

The SoCon sits right smack in the middle of ACC and SEC country. (Of course, those two conferences are spinoffs of the old SoCon.) Off the top of my head, these are all within about four hours of Furman:

Clemson (backyard)
South Carolina
UGA
Georgia Tech
Auburn
Tennessee
Wake Forest
UNC
Duke
NC State
Virginia Tech

SoCon seems to hold its own even with all those FBS schools in the same area. We were right on the line during the I-A/I-AA split and survived the first purge in 1978. The MAC had a little higher average attendance on the whole and managed to stay in, while the SoCon, Ivy, and a few others moved to I-AA in about 1981-82.



Wow... We are in similar circumstances...

Of course, I left out Rice, SMU, Texas State and UTSA. Oh, and only about 6.5 hours to LSU.

[bostonspider]

Most mid atlantic and southern schools have similar numbers of larger FBS schools in close proximity. For Richmond:

UVA 1 hr - 66 miles
Maryland 2 hrs - 120 miles
Duke 2.25 hrs - 160 miles
UNC 2.5 hrs - 170 miles
NCSU 2.5 hrs - 175 miles
VaTech 3 hrs - 200 miles
Wake Forest 3.5 hours - 220 miles

[UAalum72]

Not that they really take many fans from Albany, but travel from Bob Ford Field to:

Army 108 miles, under 2 hrs.
UConn 120 miles, 2 hrs.
Syracuse 143 miles, 2:15
Boston College, 168 miles, 2:40
UMass (Glilette Stadium) 171 miles, 2:40
Rutgers 183 miles, 2:45
Temple 243 miles, 3:50
Buffalo 279 miles, 4 hours

Of course these FBS colleges draw from less than half to a fifth of the Big 10 schools, and speaks to the rank of college athletics in the Northeast, because the real competition for media and the sports dollar is from the five NFL teams in the same cities.

[DFW HOYA]

It shouldn't matter if a school is 10 miles away or literally next door (see Washington & Lee and VMI). If you win, and your fanbase is loyal, it won't matter who is down the road.

It's four miles from Harvard to BC and neither school's attendance is diminished by the other.

[The Yo Show]

Iowa - 1 hour 26 minutes
Iowa State - 1 hour 28 minutes
Wisconsin - 3 hours 5 minues
Minnesota - 3 hours 20 minutes
Nebraksa - 4 hours 20 minutes
Illinois - 4 hours 40 minutes


I know 2 of those are technically over but they are schools with large number of fans around us. Mizzou is less than 5 hours, Notre Dame is also just over 5 hours depending how you deal with Chicago.

Clenz, I feel your pain. This is my compilation of schools with football programs near YSU. Distances are stated in driving time to school's stadium from YSU per google Maps.

P5
Pitt - 1 hour 6 minutes
WVU - 2 hours 15 minutes
Ohio State - 2 hours 38 minutes
Michigan - 3 hours 23 minutes
Michigan State - 4 hours 16 minutes (outside 4 hours)
Notre Dame - 4 hours 40 minutes (outside 4 hours)

Non P5
Kent State - 38 minutes
Akron - 46 minutes
Toledo - 2 hours 42 minutes
BGSU - 2 hours 44 minutes
Eastern Michigan - 3 hours 20 minutes
Ohio - 3 hours 27 minutes
Cincinnati - 4 hours 15 minutes (outside 4 hours)
Miami of Ohio - 4 hours 28 minutes (outside 4 hours)
Western Michigan - 4 hours 49 minutes (outside 4 hours)
Ball State - 4 hours 52 minutes (outside 4 hours)

[The Yo Show]

It shouldn't matter if a school is 10 miles away or literally next door (see Washington & Lee and VMI). If you win, and your fanbase is loyal, it won't matter who is down the road.

It's four miles from Harvard to BC and neither school's attendance is diminished by the other.

Like you said, if you win. When programs go through periods of decline they lose fanbase fast. Especially when their are a bunch of other shows in town.

[ASU33]

We played EMU back in 2011 and I was completely unimpressed. From the facilities to the fans nothing felt like FBS football. We darn near beat them with a team that didn't even finish in the top 4 in our conference. We had about 1,200 fans there which was about the same amount that they had.

[ASU33]

I wonder if other MAC schools are considering this as well since most of those schools struggle with attendance.

[RootinFerDukes]

I wonder if other MAC schools are considering this as well since most of those schools struggle with attendance.

The Big 10 reigns supreme in the Midwest more than any other region of the country. Another part of their attendance problem is that their ESPN tv deal forces games to be played on weeknights late in the season.
They simply don't have the pull to make anyone care enough to show up on a Tuesday or Wednesday night.

[Pinnum]

The Big 10 reigns supreme in the Midwest more than any other region of the country. Another part of their attendance problem is that their ESPN tv deal forces games to be played on weeknights late in the season.
They simply don't have the pull to make anyone care enough to show up on a Tuesday or Wednesday night.

Additionally, night games late in the season are not cool crisp nights like in the south but rather bitter cold in Michigan.

Last year, EMU played two games outside the traditional saturday slot. One was the day after Thanksgiving and started at 1PM while the other was a weeknight earlier in the season that started at 7:30. The temperature was 38F and 44F for kick off during these games and you know it only got colder as the game was played. You really have to have a dedicated fan base for people to want to sit through those conditions even on a Saturday when they don't have to work the next day.

[walliver]

The SoCon sits right smack in the middle of ACC and SEC country. (Of course, those two conferences are spinoffs of the old SoCon.) Off the top of my head, these are all within about four hours of Furman:

Clemson (backyard)
South Carolina
UGA
Georgia Tech
Auburn
Tennessee
Wake Forest
UNC
Duke
NC State
Virginia Tech

SoCon seems to hold its own even with all those FBS schools in the same area. We were right on the line during the I-A/I-AA split and survived the first purge in 1978. The MAC had a little higher average attendance on the whole and managed to stay in, while the SoCon, Ivy, and a few others moved to I-AA in about 1981-82.

Your list leaves out FBS powerhouses App State, UNCC, Georgia State and forthcoming powerhouse CCU.:D

Considering EMU's location, I wonder how many EMU students' first choice was EMU? I suspect it is a relatively small number. That may account for the lack of interest. Why sit outside in the elements when you can sit inside, drink beer, and root for Big Blue?

[clenz]

Considering EMU's location, I wonder how many EMU students' first choice was EMU? I suspect it is a relatively small number. That may account for the lack of interest. Why sit outside in the elements when you can sit inside, drink beer, and root for Big Blue?
Bingo.

My wife is accepted to a program at the U of M to get post graduate work done towards a specialty to go with her M.A. She was going to start this year but pushed it back a year. I'm excited to go with her because A. I've been a Michigan fan my whole life and never been there so taking 8 trips to Ann Arbor over the course of 14 months is nice AND B. while she's in class I'm going to travel all over Michigan/Northern Ohio to see all the campus locations. I really want to see what EMU looks like given it's location to UM

[OhioHen]

Considering EMU's location, I wonder how many EMU students' first choice was EMU? I suspect it is a relatively small number.

Interesting note - EMU recognizes what schools are their "competition" for students - all residents of Ohio are eligible for "in state" tuition at EMU. There are many places where residents of border counties get this perk, but this is the only one I ever encountered when my kids were college shopping to give it to the whole neighboring state.

[ST_Lawson]

Interesting note - EMU recognizes what schools are their "competition" for students - all residents of Ohio are eligible for "in state" tuition at EMU. There are many places where residents of border counties get this perk, but this is the only one I ever encountered when my kids were college shopping to give it to the whole neighboring state.

I guess I thought that was getting to be "standard" these days. Western has offered "in-state" tuition for residents of Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Indiana for a while now, and just this year, extended it to all "domestic" students. So, if you're from the US, you now get "in-state" tuition (which also just dropped by 3% for new incoming freshmen).

[clenz]

Interesting note - EMU recognizes what schools are their "competition" for students - all residents of Ohio are eligible for "in state" tuition at EMU. There are many places where residents of border counties get this perk, but this is the only one I ever encountered when my kids were college shopping to give it to the whole neighboring state.
SDSU, USD and a few other Dakota schools offer in-state tuition to all of Iowa, Minnesota and Nebraksa. The schools out west do the same for Wyoming and Montana. Hell, earlier this month they announced a reduction of tuition for Iowa students because they are seeing a drop in Iowa students

I know the Iowa BOR is being forced to "talk" about the idea as no Iowa school offers it - all controlled by the same BOR - and there is "some" fear of losing kids that would go to ISU, UI or UNI from the NW corner of the state since all three are quite a drive from where USD/SDSU try to pull from. The three state schools lose students to places closer to home and they need to fill those spots. Kids from Wisconsin, MO, and Illinois may not come with OOS tuition but might with in-state. The losing proposition is UI gets SOOOOO many kids from Illinois at 40k a head that the BOR would never pass it. Thus strangling UNI's ability to attract out of state kids.

[RootinFerDukes]

Your list leaves out FBS powerhouses App State, UNCC, Georgia State and forthcoming powerhouse CCU.:D

Considering EMU's location, I wonder how many EMU students' first choice was EMU? I suspect it is a relatively small number. That may account for the lack of interest. Why sit outside in the elements when you can sit inside, drink beer, and root for Big Blue?

My freshman year there would be kids sitting in our dorms lounge watching UVA or tech on tv instead of going to watch their own schools' reigning national champion team in 05.
I began to realize that they were either kids who didn't get into UVA but we're still obsessed with that school anyways. Or they "grew up as a big ole tech family!".
They also may have just been hungover and lazy.

[Laker]

"Minnesota has reciprocity agreements with Wisconsin (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=121), North Dakota (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=122), and South Dakota (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=123). It also has an agreement with the Canadian province of Manitoba (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=125), and a limited agreement with Iowa Lakes Community College (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=124) in northwestern Iowa."

At one time, MN had reciprocity with any state that it bordered except Iowa. So many students came up from Iowa that they didn't need to make an agreement. They used to have reciprocity with schools in Upper Michigan but that evidently is no more.

[clenz]

"Minnesota has reciprocity agreements with Wisconsin (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=121), North Dakota (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=122), and South Dakota (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=123). It also has an agreement with the Canadian province of Manitoba (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=125), and a limited agreement with Iowa Lakes Community College (https://www.ohe.state.mn.us/mPg.cfm?PageID=124) in northwestern Iowa."

At one time, MN had reciprocity with any state that it bordered except Iowa. So many students came up from Iowa that they didn't need to make an agreement. They used to have reciprocity with schools in Upper Michigan but that evidently is no more.
Many schools/states don't offer Iowa students reciprocity because the state of Iowa won't offer back.

UNI would love reciprocity.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UNI would love reciprocity.

There's a joke here somewhere not sure if I should go there

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Interesting note - EMU recognizes what schools are their "competition" for students - all residents of Ohio are eligible for "in state" tuition at EMU. There are many places where residents of border counties get this perk, but this is the only one I ever encountered when my kids were college shopping to give it to the whole neighboring state.

The New England states used to have a policy of allowing residents from other New England states to pay in-state at any public institution. The program is not quite so generous these days, but a fellow New Englander can save $12.5K at Maine, $13,600 at UConn, $11,300 off Vermont-- even $8,600 this year at CCSU. UNH only discounts $2,700, which interestingly makes their regional tuition and fees identical to UVM, the highest in the region and twice the regional tuition and fees at Maine. There even discounts for grad schools. Universities in the region are being encouraged not to over-duplicate programs of study, if students can cross a state line to get a similar program.

My niece, a CT resident, has been attending URI under this scheme this year. She is transferring back to UConn next year and will save some for sure. With its density of well-known and well-heeled private schools, public higher ed in New England has had to market itself harder for a long time. At the time I was looking at UConn, among others, my father, a mason born and raised 20 miles from Storrs, exclaimed "No son of mine is going to that cow college!". There has been a big shift in the regard of UConn and most of the top-tier public schools in the region in my lifetime. This new program seems to give the institutions a lever to adjust their regional marketing.

http://www.nebhe.org/programs-overview/rsp-tuition-break/overview/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The New England states used to have a policy of allowing residents from other New England states to pay in-state at any public institution. The program is not quite so generous these days, but a fellow New Englander can save $12.5K at Maine, $13,600 at UConn, $11,300 off Vermont-- even $8,600 this year at CCSU. UNH only discounts $2,700, which interestingly makes their regional tuition and fees identical TO UVM, the highest in the region and twice the regional tuition and fees at Maine. There even discounts for grad schools. Universities in the region are being encouraged not to over-duplicate programs of study, if students can cross a state line to get a similar program.

My niece, a CT resident, has been attending URI under this scheme this year. She is transferring back to UConn next year and will save some for sure. With its density of well-known and well-heeled private schools, public higher ed in New England has had to market itself harder for a long time. At the time I was looking at UConn, among others, my father, a mason born and raised 20 miles from Storrs, exclaimed "No son of mine is going to that cow college!". There has been a big shift in the regard of UConn and most of the top-tier public schools in the region in my lifetime. This new program seems to give the institutions a lever to adjust their regional marketing.

UConn was literally my safety school too xlolx. At the time UConn wasn't the UConn of today. I had heard the same "cow college" crack about them back when I was looking at colleges. There were best known for their ag school, if I remember right. Now they're up there.

[ccd494]

The New England states used to have a policy of allowing residents from other New England states to pay in-state at any public institution. The program is not quite so generous these days, but a fellow New Englander can save $12.5K at Maine, $13,600 at UConn, $11,300 off Vermont-- even $8,600 this year at CCSU. UNH only discounts $2,700, which interestingly makes their regional tuition and fees identical to UVM, the highest in the region and twice the regional tuition and fees at Maine. There even discounts for grad schools. Universities in the region are being encouraged not to over-duplicate programs of study, if students can cross a state line to get a similar program.

My niece, a CT resident, has been attending URI under this scheme this year. She is transferring back to UConn next year and will save some for sure. With its density of well-known and well-heeled private schools, public higher ed in New England has had to market itself harder for a long time. At the time I was looking at UConn, among others, my father, a mason born and raised 20 miles from Storrs, exclaimed "No son of mine is going to that cow college!". There has been a big shift in the regard of UConn and most of the top-tier public schools in the region in my lifetime. This new program seems to give the institutions a lever to adjust their regional marketing.

http://www.nebhe.org/programs-overview/rsp-tuition-break/overview/

Yeah the key for this is that the program you want can't be offered at your home state flagship. So, if you are from Rhode Island and want to study forestry at Maine, you get the discount. But if you want to pay in-state tuition to study business, you have to go to URI. UConn and URI are basically the state of Maine's public pharmacy schools.

[GAD]

My freshman year there would be kids sitting in our dorms lounge watching UVA or tech on tv instead of going to watch their own schools' reigning national champion team in 05.
I began to realize that they were either kids who didn't get into UVA but we're still obsessed with that school anyways. Or they "grew up as a big ole tech family!".
They also may have just been hungover and lazy.
DING, DING,DING,DING,DING!!!!!!

[bostonspider]

I wonder if that is why private schools SOMETIMES get a higher percentage of students out to games. They are more likely to have left their home state, and might have less allegiance to the old home town/state team.

[clenz]

I wonder if that is why private schools SOMETIMES get a higher percentage of students out to games. They are more likely to have left their home state, and might have less allegiance to the old home town/state team.
Which private schools actually draw all that well, outside of Liberty?

[clenz]

2014 attendance numbers - per NCAA site

Liberty - 17K per game
Delaware - 16K per game (forgot they are technically private, though that's a loose use of the term private. This number sure as hell is a lie and not because of students)
Yale - 15K per game - Not sure what student attendance looks like, but seems like more of a generational family affair at a game, not student driven
Harvard - 15k per game Not sure what student attendance looks like, but seems like more of a generational family affair at a game, not student driven
Mercer - 10k per game - could continue to draw well, though I half wonder how much is from being "new and shiny" on campus is part of this number
Princeton - <10K per game - Not sure what student attendance looks like, but seems like more of a generational family affair at a game, not student driven



That's 6 of the top 30 in the FCS that are private schools. 1 is for sure a giant lie (UD) and students are not driving that number. 3 I fully believe are not student driven but more so by "the old timers" that view them as social events to meet up with old classmates and talk about their children/grand children getting accepted simply because they went to school there decades earlier.

Liberty is the only one I'd classify by "drawing better than a public" without lying about it.

[344Johnson]

Which private schools actually draw all that well, outside of Liberty?

Notre Dame and BYU...but they don't count obviously.

[clenz]

I also think student attendance is an issue no matter how big your school is. Just spend some time on google looking at Alabama, Michigan, Ohio State, or any of the "big boys" in regards to student attendance.

Those are all schools that are going to meet the "I grew up a fan of here and will be my entire life" places.

BYU and Notre Dam have issues they are addressing there as well.

[bostonspider]

I said percentage of students, not total numbers. I think the smaller southern schools like Wofford, Mercer, Furman, Richmond do fairly well with attendance compared to the size of their student bodies, and have relatively good student attendance, by percentage.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Eastern Michigan is a school without an identity. I tried to learn as much as I could about the MAC school when Temple was in the conference. One thing became apparent quickly, EMU was the lost child. Western and Central both a strong presence in their respective communities and in the state. They both have solid undergrad reputations and some excellent grad programs. It seemed like CMU served as the getaway school for those that grew up in the lower half the state and wanted a change of scenery.

EMU not only has Big Blue in its backyard, Wayne Street is basically "down the road". WSU is a massive urban, commuter orientated school that draws students from the western suburbs of Detroit. I think generally speaking, Wayne State's reputation also exceeds EMU's.

Honestly, if I'm a resident of Michigan, let alone Ohio, why consider EMU? Does the school have a single redeeming quality?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is how you squash a rumor.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg_8D0xWgAIkPTf.jpg:large

[clenz]

I said percentage of students, not total numbers. I think the smaller southern schools like Wofford, Mercer, Furman, Richmond do fairly well with attendance compared to the size of their student bodies, and have relatively good student attendance, by percentage.
Meh comparison at best.

UNI, for example, has 13K students and about 3,500 student seats.
The best % UNI could have is 25-26% of the student body.

Richmond has 20% less students enrolled total than UNI has in it's student section.
All it takes 730 students for Richmond to have a "better percentage" turn out.

The D3 10 miles north of UNI has 1,800 students. They get probably 400-500 students per game to show up. That's a better student % to show up than UNI could even physically do most games.

[Go...gate]

This is how you squash a rumor.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg_8D0xWgAIkPTf.jpg:large

Good. Happy to hear this. And make no mistake, the MAC, much more than many conferences, is a "family".

[SUPharmacist]

SDSU, USD and a few other Dakota schools offer in-state tuition to all of Iowa, Minnesota and Nebraksa. The schools out west do the same for Wyoming and Montana. Hell, earlier this month they announced a reduction of tuition for Iowa students because they are seeing a drop in Iowa students

I know the Iowa BOR is being forced to "talk" about the idea as no Iowa school offers it - all controlled by the same BOR - and there is "some" fear of losing kids that would go to ISU, UI or UNI from the NW corner of the state since all three are quite a drive from where USD/SDSU try to pull from. The three state schools lose students to places closer to home and they need to fill those spots. Kids from Wisconsin, MO, and Illinois may not come with OOS tuition but might with in-state. The losing proposition is UI gets SOOOOO many kids from Illinois at 40k a head that the BOR would never pass it. Thus strangling UNI's ability to attract out of state kids.

I don't think I had 100% reciprocity at NDSU being a MN resident, but it was damn close. What I was most amused about though was a friend in pharmacy school from Las Vegas (had some family in Fargo) explained that there was partial reciprocity with Nevada. What a strange world.

[The Yo Show]

Meh comparison at best.

UNI, for example, has 13K students and about 3,500 student seats.
The best % UNI could have is 25-26% of the student body.

Richmond has 20% less students enrolled total than UNI has in it's student section.
All it takes 730 students for Richmond to have a "better percentage" turn out.

The D3 10 miles north of UNI has 1,800 students. They get probably 400-500 students per game to show up. That's a better student % to show up than UNI could even physically do most games.

You know, despite the physical limitations you pointed out, it does seem incredible to think that high a percentage of a student body would even show up to a game. 400-500 students out of 1800 is pretty impressive considering some schools with alot of students have a hard time getting 400-500.

[Laker]

The D3 10 miles north of UNI has 1,800 students. They get probably 400-500 students per game to show up. That's a better student % to show up than UNI could even physically do most games.

Must be talking about Wartburg.

I've always wondered how Upper Iowa, in a town of about 900 plus, with no high school in town can be D2. But some former football player and his wife, a former cheerleader at UIU, kicked in millions for a nice new stadium and a cheerleading program. They do have the $$$$.

[Twentysix]

I don't think I had 100% reciprocity at NDSU being a MN resident, but it was damn close. What I was most amused about though was a friend in pharmacy school from Las Vegas (had some family in Fargo) explained that there was partial reciprocity with Nevada. What a strange world.

Western State's Alliance (or something like that). NDSU has partial reciprocity with the public institutions in like 20 states. Coincidentally they are the states that NDSU recruits athletes from. ;)

And yeah, MN:ND reciprocity is not 1:1, but it is dang close. MN is the only state that ND has full or nearly full reciprocity with.

[Twentysix]

Montana & South Dakota
Manitoba & Saskatchewan
Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin
Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, New Mexico, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Wyoming, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas Islands

NDSU has some reciprocity with everything listed above and then real reciprocity with Minnesota.

[clenz]

Must be talking about Wartburg.

I've always wondered how Upper Iowa, in a town of about 900 plus, with no high school in town can be D2. But some former football player and his wife, a former cheerleader at UIU, kicked in millions for a nice new stadium and a cheerleading program. They do have the $$$$.

I was recruited pretty heavily by UIU out of HS. Offered a 80% scholarship for my freshman year and was told plan was to come into camp as a guy who's play right away and likely see a full or near full ride after that. That was the only redeeming quality in my 17 year old head of that trip. Looking back I should have taken it rather than Wartburg and no money. However, Fayette is the living definition of Podunk Iowa town in the middle of no where. It was dumpier than the small town I grew up in. As you said, couldn't believe they were D2. The NAIA schools where I grew up were nicer and in bigger towns. That was fall 05 for my visit. At that point the field was dirt (and not because they were redoing it). There was less stands than my high school field. The weight room and training facilities didn't exist. They hadn't announced any facility plans either. The school was alright. Program I wanted was good. I just couldn't couldn't pull the trigger. If they had the facilities then that they do now, I'd have been there in a second. They have the resources now, but trying to recruit to Fayette is damn near impossible to recruit too

Then again, 05 was their first year D2. Prior to that they were D2 in the same conference as all other Iowa D3s. I was recurred by all of them as well. Went to 7 of them for visits. UIU was significantly worse off than the IIAC schools in 05.

They are dumping tons of money into the university though. They've taken the Liberty approach, kind of. They have "distance centers" all over Iowa where night classes are taught to get UIU degrees. They are pushing online programs.

I think they'll be over 10k students sooner than later.

[DFW HOYA]

http://emueagles.com/news/2016/4/26/general-open-letter-to-the-emu-campus-community-alumni-friends-and-supporter.aspx

[RootinFerDukes]

This is how you squash a rumor.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg_8D0xWgAIkPTf.jpg:large

If I were a faculty member at emu and I saw that their athletics programs lost 52M over the past two years and the president-elect did nothing, he could be garnering a vote of no confidence soon.

[JayJ79]

Financially, it would make sense for the MAC (and a number of other G5's) to drop to FCS, though that might mean a drop in donations/attendance, since fans/donors tend to be finicky when it comes to labels.

Will probably never happen, but if it did, it would also make sense for the Big Ten to modify the scheduling mandates to allow games against FCS opponents, perhaps only from "approved" conferences (MAC, MVFC). Yes, you'd still get some boring blowout games when they took on the likes of Missouri State or something. But you get those sort of games then they take on bottom-of-the-barrel FBS teams too (like North Texas). Otherwise, there are often decently competitive games between the two conferences (yes, usually the Big Ten teams pull out the win in the end, but they are often competitive and entertaining games for the first few quarters)

[clenz]

You know, despite the physical limitations you pointed out, it does seem incredible to think that high a percentage of a student body would even show up to a game. 400-500 students out of 1800 is pretty impressive considering some schools with alot of students have a hard time getting 400-500.
A lot of it depends on campus engagement of the players and program and success of the program. It also helps Walston-Hoover is nicer than 80% of FCS stadiums (just smaller)

Wartburg, the school I referenced, has a long history of being good. They are always in the top 20-30 in D3 in attendance. Not bad for being less than 2 hours from Iowa, Iowa State and 15 minutes from UNI. The stadium is right in campus. It's a gorgeous stadium that seats about 3,400 (average 97-100% capacity). For better, and worse, it's a very high school feel to it. Players, on such a small campus, are involved in so many things and friend groups are large because it's a small campus. That doesn't include the fact that dorms literally overlook the stadium and many students watch games from their dorms.

This is the entire campus
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/35935547.jpg

"home side" You can see the students are the far left 2-3 sections
http://d3football.com/teams/Wartburg/stadium.jpg

The visitor side where students can also watch from the dorms
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/whs_zpsvnj5adu1.png

Panorama
https://wartburg.edu/panorama/stadiums.html



Upper Iowa's new set up is pretty slick.

http://www.samuelsgroup.net/res/uploads/case_studies/full_UIU_field_panorama.jpg
http://www.samuelsgroup.net/res/uploads/case_studies/full_UIU-Football-Stadium.jpg
https://www.collegerecon.com/assets/college-media/Upper_Iowa_University_photo.jpg



Then again, this is one of the high schools in my town...Lights clear as day for most of the city at night when something is going on
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/Linn-Mar20Stadium_zpsf7gsxg03.jpg?t=1461695106
http://www.rdgusa.com/img/gallery/2014_08_28_114337_51282800/original.jpg
http://www.rdgusa.com/img/gallery/2014_08_28_114328_65598900/original.jpg

Oh, and the north side of the school (the upper left of that first picture) is getting a $50m make over and will look like this by this fall

http://asumag.com/site-files/asumag.com/files/imagecache/large_img/uploads/2015/01/linn-mar.jpg

I've looked at the detailed report for the rest of the projects to the school. They are basically rebuilding the entire school from ground up now that the athletic complexes are finished. Hundreds of millions of dollars to redo the school and athletic facilities

They spent tens of millions on an aquatic center for the swim team
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000DHf23SlXnE8/fit=1000x750/aquatic01.jpg
http://www.thegazette.com/storyimage/GA/20150912/ARTICLE/150919864/AR/0/AR-150919864.jpg&MaxH=1400&MaxW=1306







It's crazy to see that all around me at the high school and NAIA, D3 and D2 level then see how some D1 universities operate

[Catsfan90]

So this now looks a lot more feasible for EMU. If they were worried about the stigma that dropping may cause, they can use Idaho as their model

[BisonFan02]

So this now looks a lot more feasible for EMU. If they were worried about the stigma that dropping may cause, they can use Idaho as their model

EMU and YSU to the CAA.... :D

[Catsfan90]

EMU and YSU to the CAA.... :D
Emu for URI swap

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll leave this here... interesting thoughts

http://thecomeback.com/thestudentsection/2016-articles/emus-happy-medium-is-in-the-fcs.html

[RootinFerDukes]

Emu has a tougher decision because unlike Idaho, they don't have a pending regional conference invitation waiting.
The CAA and Mvfc both don't need them and shouldn't take them IMO. They don't fit with either and don't increase the value of either conference.

[bojeta]

They very well may mean D2.

Back from a long hiatus, and may have missed something, but D2 is not allowable unless their entire athletic program drops to D2. It would have to be FCS or No Football at all.

[dgtw]

Emu has a tougher decision because unlike Idaho, they don't have a pending regional conference invitation waiting.
The CAA and Mvfc both don't need them and shouldn't take them IMO. They don't fit with either and don't increase the value of either conference.

Unlike Idaho, they can stay put since they have a home.

[RootinFerDukes]

Unlike Idaho, they can stay put since they have a home.

The Mac may require them to have football and could kick them out. When you have a conference consisting of all full time members, you want to keep it that way.

[dgtw]

The Mac may require them to have football and could kick them out. When you have a conference consisting of all full time members, you want to keep it that way.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant they could stay FBS because they have a conference home. Idaho does not have that luxury.

[RootinFerDukes]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant they could stay FBS because they have a conference home. Idaho does not have that luxury.

Oh yeah, they could do nothing and be right where they are now, losing 26M per year on their athletics programs while their faculty and students are publicly stating they have no business being fbs.

[walliver]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant they could stay FBS because they have a conference home. Idaho does not have that luxury.

One of the great hipocracies of the NCAA. There are rules about who can play FBS football, but they are selectively ignored. Attendance requirements are never enforced. CCU moves up with the hope that attendance will more than double in 4 years. Apparently if you have a membership or invitation from a FBS conference, none of the other rules actually apply.

[superman7515]

1 is for sure a giant lie (UD) and students are not driving that number.

That's probably correct for 2014. Coming off a 7-5 season with two last second collapses to just miss the playoffs, got quite a few preseason votes with the supposed promise of a better year, local rivals in Towson and Villanova at home to boost the attendance... But you are correct that students had zero to do with that.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

One of the great hipocracies of the NCAA. There are rules about who can play FBS football, but they are selectively ignored. Attendance requirements are never enforced. CCU moves up with the hope that attendance will more than double in 4 years. Apparently if you have a membership or invitation from a FBS conference, none of the other rules actually apply.

It is a bit ridiculous.The entire way Division 1 athletics is constructed is a joke.

[The Yo Show]

It's crazy to see that all around me at the high school and NAIA, D3 and D2 level then see how some D1 universities operate

Thanks for the pics and information! Those campuses and facilities actually do look pretty awesome!

[The Yo Show]

Back from a long hiatus, and may have missed something, but D2 is not allowable unless their entire athletic program drops to D2. It would have to be FCS or No Football at all.

You are correct sir, the often hushed "Dayton" rule. The report is wrong when they say they could go D2. The individuals running the report weren't smart enough to actually understand how things work, but were able to see a cost savings.

[Go...gate]

If I were a faculty member at emu and I saw that their athletics programs lost 52M over the past two years and the president-elect did nothing, he could be garnering a vote of no confidence soon.

Rutgers has lost over $300 million on athletics in the past decade and they are doubling down.....

[clenz]

Rutgers has lost over $300 million on athletics in the past decade and they are doubling down.....

And now getting 45m a year, and climbing, from the Big Ten Network

[F'N Hawks]

And now getting 45m a year, and climbing, from the Big Ten Network

Thought I read an article lately that said they only get like 11 million per year until 2021. Then, they get full share. Would assume Maryland is same.

[Go...gate]

Both schools will need every penny, and will still lose a great deal of money.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Sounds like these are the potential options for EMU:

1) Drop football and try to remain in the MAC as an all-sports member. Given that all members currently sponsor football, this seems highly unlikely.
2) Drop football and join the Horizon League for all sports
3) Downgrade football to FCS, join the Horizon for all-sports and try to get into the MVFC
4) Downgrade entire athletic program to D-II and play in the league with Grand Valley State, Ferris State, Michigan Tech et al.
5) Remain where they are now, continue to bleed $, and not have to worry about being kicked out of FBS because no requirements are ever enforced.

Given this array of scenarios, could it be possible that EMU's football sponsorship could be contingent on whether or not the MVFC is willing to take them in? Only FCS league that makes sense IMO. I actually think EMU could have some potential succeed at this level given that they'd be the only FCS school in their state(though that hasn't helped Missouri St much). They'd provide another eastern school to complement Youngstown and, if the opportunity arose, it's possible UND could join and create two divisions.

[Bisonwinagn]

Sounds like these are the potential options for EMU:

1) Drop football and try to remain in the MAC as an all-sports member. Given that all members currently sponsor football, this seems highly unlikely.
2) Drop football and join the Horizon League for all sports
3) Downgrade football to FCS, join the Horizon for all-sports and try to get into the MVFC
4) Downgrade entire athletic program to D-II and play in the league with Grand Valley State, Ferris State, Michigan Tech et al.
5) Remain where they are now, continue to bleed $, and not have to worry about being kicked out of FBS because no requirements are ever enforced.

Given this array of scenarios, could it be possible that EMU's football sponsorship could be contingent on whether or not the MVFC is willing to take them in? Only FCS league that makes sense IMO. I actually think EMU could have some potential succeed at this level given that they'd be the only FCS school in their state(though that hasn't helped Missouri St much). They'd provide another eastern school to complement Youngstown and, if the opportunity arose, it's possible UND could join and create two divisions.

They couldn't win the MVFC now...why do you think they would compete with less scholarships?

[BisonFan02]

Sounds like these are the potential options for EMU:

1) Drop football and try to remain in the MAC as an all-sports member. Given that all members currently sponsor football, this seems highly unlikely.
2) Drop football and join the Horizon League for all sports
3) Downgrade football to FCS, join the Horizon for all-sports and try to get into the MVFC
4) Downgrade entire athletic program to D-II and play in the league with Grand Valley State, Ferris State, Michigan Tech et al.
5) Remain where they are now, continue to bleed $, and not have to worry about being kicked out of FBS because no requirements are ever enforced.

Given this array of scenarios, could it be possible that EMU's football sponsorship could be contingent on whether or not the MVFC is willing to take them in? Only FCS league that makes sense IMO. I actually think EMU could have some potential succeed at this level given that they'd be the only FCS school in their state(though that hasn't helped Missouri St much). They'd provide another eastern school to complement Youngstown and, if the opportunity arose, it's possible UND could join and create two divisions.

http://i.imgur.com/HMib4HH.gif

[Penguin Nation]

Sounds like these are the potential options for EMU:

1) Drop football and try to remain in the MAC as an all-sports member. Given that all members currently sponsor football, this seems highly unlikely.
2) Drop football and join the Horizon League for all sports
3) Downgrade football to FCS, join the Horizon for all-sports and try to get into the MVFC
4) Downgrade entire athletic program to D-II and play in the league with Grand Valley State, Ferris State, Michigan Tech et al.
5) Remain where they are now, continue to bleed $, and not have to worry about being kicked out of FBS because no requirements are ever enforced.


6. The entire MAC drops to FCS, except NIU, Toledo and maybe Bowling Green...who find a home elsewhere...like maybe C-USA.

Why delay the inevitable? EMU is just an extreme example of the financial state of many other MAC schools, like Akron.

[clenz]

6. The entire MAC drops to FCS, except NIU, Toledo and maybe Bowling Green...who find a home elsewhere...like maybe C-USA.

Why delay the inevitable? EMU is just an extreme example of the financial state of many other MAC schools, like Akron.
B10 will never let that happen

[SUUTbird]

They'd provide another eastern school to complement Youngstown and, if the opportunity arose, it's possible UND could join and create two divisions.

Honestly if this were to happen I could see UND leaving the Big Sky to join the MVFC since their mascot Shenanigans is over. This would then allow the Big Sky to look at picking up NMSU or even San Diego if they ever decide to get athletic scholarships.

[JayJ79]

Back from a long hiatus, and may have missed something, but D2 is not allowable unless their entire athletic program drops to D2. It would have to be FCS or No Football at all.

have any of their other athletic programs had any success to speak of? perhaps moving everything to D2 wouldn't be an issue

[Twentysix]

Pretty sure SEMO and Misery St are both in Missouri...

[NY Crusader 2010]

Pretty sure SEMO and Misery St are both in Missouri...

Good call. I was actually about to make the same comparison to UNI and then I remembered Drake is in Iowa too.

[Hammerhead]

EMU's men's basketball team reached the sweet 16 twice in the 1990s and the baseball team finished 6th and 2nd back in the 1970s. Sprinkle in a few track&field all-Americans in wrestling and track & field. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Michigan_Eagles

[NY Crusader 2010]

They couldn't win the MVFC now...why do you think they would compete with less scholarships?

Win? They wouldn't even be competitive right now in the Valley. It's a stronger league through and through than the MAC, where they are cellar dwellars. I do think there's a better chance they could carve a "niche" in FCS. Right now, they are fighting two in-state G5 schools for recruits in their own conference. Could it be possible that being the only FCS team in the state of Michigan could help them rejuvenate the program at this level?

[Penguin Nation]

EMU would is ranked 10/11 in Massey if they were a member of the MVFC (only above MSU), and that's with 85 schollies. Maybe they should look at the Pioneer league?

[Pinnum]

EMU would is ranked 10/11 in Massey if they were a member of the MVFC (only above MSU), and that's with 85 schollies. Maybe they should look at the Pioneer league?

I am not of the opinion that the additional scholarships make too much of an impact. There is really only a core of 20 athletes that are impact players on any program. I wouldn't be surprised if EMU actually was better with less scholarships as they would have a few more impact players likely transferring in from FBS programs from time to time.

What I mean is that while NDSU is regularly a very strong program and one that can knock off top-50 FBS teams and even occasionally steal a top-20 FBS win with their reduced number of scholarships, I wouldn't expect NDSU to themselves be a top-20 FBS team with the additional scholarships. I think the difference in scholarships between FCS and FBS gets to the point of diminishing returns.

Sure, a staff is able to cast a wider net and to gamble on more recruits but each program is really only bringing in a few big impact guys in each recruiting class and they have the singing limit for each class so you're not able to just quickly wash out any recruits you miss on.

EMU would not come in and dominate the MVFC but they would be fairly competitive. The question is if it would even matter. If they joined the MVFC and had a winning record, would anyone take notice? Would the student body start to come out to the game? Would the alumni come back and tailgate? Those are the real questions.

[Twentysix]

I'd rather Oakland start a football team and let them in the MVFC than EMU. :p

[centennial]

I am not of the opinion that the additional scholarships make too much of an impact. There is really only a core of 20 athletes that are impact players on any program. I wouldn't be surprised if EMU actually was better with less scholarships as they would have a few more impact players likely transferring in from FBS programs from time to time.

What I mean is that while NDSU is regularly a very strong program and one that can knock off top-50 FBS teams and even occasionally steal a top-20 FBS win with their reduced number of scholarships, I wouldn't expect NDSU to themselves be a top-20 FBS team with the additional scholarships. I think the difference in scholarships between FCS and FBS gets to the point of diminishing returns.

Sure, a staff is able to cast a wider net and to gamble on more recruits but each program is really only bringing in a few big impact guys in each recruiting class and they have the singing limit for each class so you're not able to just quickly wash out any recruits you miss on.

EMU would not come in and dominate the MVFC but they would be fairly competitive. The question is if it would even matter. If they joined the MVFC and had a winning record, would anyone take notice? Would the student body start to come out to the game? Would the alumni come back and tailgate? Those are the real questions.

EMU right now would weaken the Valley. I would expect them to be bottom 3 at best. Add in 10 FBS P5 transfers I think they could perhaps be in the middle of the league. Does anyone really see them beating SIU, YSU or Indiana State on the regular? IMO MVFC and MAC are similar strength leagues. The MAC has some good teams, some bad. The MVFC is more balanced, teams are closer. The only team I would expect EMU to beat is Missouri State, and even that might change soon.

[Pinnum]

EMU right now would weaken the Valley. I would expect them to be bottom 3 at best. Add in 10 FBS P5 transfers I think they could perhaps be in the middle of the league. Does anyone really see them beating SIU, YSU or Indiana State on the regular? IMO MVFC and MAC are similar strength leagues. The MAC has some good teams, some bad. The MVFC is more balanced, teams are closer. The only team I would expect EMU to beat is Missouri State, and even that might change soon.

Yes, I think they would weaken the conference (in the short run). Any team that would anticipate falling below the mid point in the league would do that.

In their first year (or two) I would expect EMU to be in the bottom four in the conference. They could have anywhere from zero to four wins in the conference for those first two years and it wouldn't surprise me.

The question is not so much where the program is today but what would a move to FCS mean to them. The best proxy we will have will be Idaho so EMU (and UMass) can hold out for a few years and see what happens with them.

I think EMU could settle in nicely into the MVFC after a few years and put a good program on the field. I would see them as being a strong program that is always competitive as a solid mid pack program in the conference but I am not sure if that would actually do anything for the EMU community... The real issue with EMU is not their lack of competitiveness in FBS but rather their lack of fan support from the student body any alumni. Can that be remedied by winning? And if so, how many games do they have to win and does it matter who they beat? Do they have to beat FBS teams or can they beat FCS or even D2/NAIA teams and energize the fan base?

[Laker]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChUjB2kWgAADIGA.jpg