Rams trade for #1 pick

[Mattymc727]

Carson Wentz lead the LA Rams to the promised land?

[clenz]

Oh man.

Imagine how a few on Twitter are going to react to this....

Every time he throws an in-completion it's going to be a "I TOLD YOU SO #awfulwhiteqbs" and every TD is going to be "#WhiteQBOpportunities"

[blackbeard]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/rams-reportedly-trade-for-titans--no--1-overall-pick--so-which-qb-131326636.html

The #1 pick being from FCS might break the internet

[AmsterBison]

It's going to be Wentz at #1. Surprised that Bisonville didn't shut down.

Had a second monitor up with Twitter open on a Carson Wentz search... it went from "2 new posts" to "40 new posts" in five seconds immediately after the LA deal was announced.

Reasons:

1. Goff is a good QB but, unlike Wentz, doesn't have a ceiling that you give away the farm for.
2. Browns were going to take Wentz so the only reason to jump to #1 is to get Carson.
3. Even back in January, LA was zeroed in on Wentz... it's just that they thought he'd drop lower.

-or-

1. I've been in a coma since the 2010 EWU game and now inhabit a dream world in which NDSU won the last five championships and has a QB going #1 in the draft. That would also explain the Grand Cherokee coming out with a Hellcat engine (also Ford GT350 and Camaro ZL1.) This theory will be confirmed when a mid-engined, AWD Corvette comes out.

[Bisonator]

I thought there was a good chance the Rams would move up to get him. Excited for Carson!

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm just happy he's going somewhere other than the Browns. He and Todd Gurley should be fun to watch next year.



This theory will be confirmed when a mid-engined, AWD Corvette comes out.

Looks like it will never be confirmed. Ever.

[Mattymc727]

Previously, whats the highest pick for an FCS player?

Also, almost crazy to think the #1 pick would be not only an FCS QB, but one who didnt even start a full 2 seasons...

[Thumper 76]

I'm just happy he's going somewhere other than the Browns. He and Todd Gurley should be fun to watch next year.







This times 1000000000. Was looking like he was going to Cleveland for sure. I think he's got a much higher chance of success now (but who the hell wouldn't)

[Thumper 76]

Previously, whats the highest pick for an FCS player?

Also, almost crazy to think the #1 pick would be not only an FCS QB, but one who didnt even start a full 2 seasons...

How bout highest pick for a non FBS transfer FCS player?

[clenz]

How bout highest pick for a non FBS transfer FCS player?
McNair at 3


Steve McNair (Alcorn State) - 3rd overall in the 1995 draft
John Thierry (Alcorn State) - 11th overall in the 1994 draft
Jerry Rice (Mississippi Valley State) - 16th overall in the 1985 draft
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Tennessee State) - 16th overall in the 2008 draft
Joe Flacco (Delaware) - 18th overall in the 2008 draft
Aaron Jones (Eastern Kentucky) - 18th overall in the 1988 draft
Sylvester Morris (Jackson State) - 21st overall in the 2000 draft
Eric Green (Liberty) - 21st overall in the 1990 draft
Tyrone Poole (Fort Valley State) - 22nd overall in the 1995 draft
Robert Porcher (SC State) - 26th overall in the 1992 draft
Shawn Collins (Northern Arizona) - 27th overall in the 1989 draft
Jamain Stephens (North Carolina A&T) - 29th overall in the 1996 draft

[JSUSoutherner]

A summary of Browns fans currently.


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22347&stc=1http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22348&stc=1
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22346&stc=1
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22345&stc=1

[Thumper 76]

The only thing is if they do take Wentz there is going to be a lot more pressure with what they gave up to get him. Plus you'll be at a place where just making the playoffs won't necessarily make the fans happy like it would in Cleveland.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[smallcollegefbfan]

Well I'm sure Emory Hunt is foaming at the mouth.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Everyone knows I am one of the biggest FCS nerds in existence. Like Emory, I cannot comprehend why LA is bat**** crazy about Carson Wentz. I see him as a highly skilled project QB that could be good, but he's not NFL ready on Day one like, say, Andrew Luck was.

[clenz]

Everyone knows I am one of the biggest FCS nerds in existence. Like Emory, I cannot comprehend why LA is bat**** crazy about Carson Wentz. I see him as a highly skilled project QB that could be good, but he's not NFL ready on Day one like, say, Andrew Luck was.
I think most on here, including most NDSU fans, agree that Wentz would be a better pick in the Flacco to Bridgewater range. In today's NFL climate that isn't going to happen.

Where Emory falls completely off the rails is his "Wentz isn't a top 12 QB in this draft" and "#AwfulWhiteQBsThatGetChancesBecauseThey'reWhite" bull****.

It's not that Emory doesn't understand wanting to take him first. He's logical for that small part of it. It's that Emory doesn't think he should be drafted

[smallcollegefbfan]

Everyone knows I am one of the biggest FCS nerds in existence. Like Emory, I cannot comprehend why LA is bat**** crazy about Carson Wentz. I see him as a highly skilled project QB that could be good, but he's not NFL ready on Day one like, say, Andrew Luck was.

I do think he needs some time but he can be very good. He is a project and one I would take in the late first or early second round but Emory seems to think he is just a free agent and 3rd stringer, at best. Even though I would not take him first overall I still don't see how he has him that low.

[JSUSoutherner]

Everyone knows I am one of the biggest FCS nerds in existence. Like Emory, I cannot comprehend why LA is bat**** crazy about Carson Wentz. I see him as a highly skilled project QB that could be good, but he's not NFL ready on Day one like, say, Andrew Luck was.
What if they aren't crazy about Wentz, but are crazy for a different QB? One that's already at home in Southern California?

[gumby013]

McNair at 3


Steve McNair (Alcorn State) - 3rd overall in the 1995 draft
John Thierry (Alcorn State) - 11th overall in the 1994 draft
Jerry Rice (Mississippi Valley State) - 16th overall in the 1985 draft
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Tennessee State) - 16th overall in the 2008 draft
Joe Flacco (Delaware) - 18th overall in the 2008 draft
Aaron Jones (Eastern Kentucky) - 18th overall in the 1988 draft
Sylvester Morris (Jackson State) - 21st overall in the 2000 draft
Eric Green (Liberty) - 21st overall in the 1990 draft
Tyrone Poole (Fort Valley State) - 22nd overall in the 1995 draft
Robert Porcher (SC State) - 26th overall in the 1992 draft
Shawn Collins (Northern Arizona) - 27th overall in the 1989 draft
Jamain Stephens (North Carolina A&T) - 29th overall in the 1996 draft

And who was the head coach of the Oilers/Titans that drafted McNair...Jeff Fisher.

[BisonFan02]

Well I'm sure Emory Hunt is foaming at the mouth.

xlolx you said it, not me. :D

[JSUSoutherner]

xlolx you said it, not me. :D
Isn't he the one that thinks Cardale Jones is the best QB in the draft?


(Legitimate question)

[clenz]

Isn't he the one that thinks Cardale Jones is the best QB in the draft?


(Legitimate question)Yup

1. Cardale Jones - Ohio State
2. Dalyn Williams - Dartmouth
3. Trevone Boykin - TCU
4. Cody Kessler - USC
5. Jared Goff - Cal
6. Jacoby Brissett - NCSU
7. Vernon Adams - Oregon
8. Dak Prescott - Miss State
9. Connor Cook - Mich State
10. Vad Lee - JMU
11. Kyle Washington - something called Angelo State
12. Carson Wentz- NDSU
13. Paxton Lynch - Memphis
14. John Robertson - Nova
15. Christian Hackenburg - PSU

There is a very noticeable trend to his rankings, and if you follow him on Twitter it's not hidden.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yup

1. Cardale Jones - Ohio State
2. Dalyn Williams - Dartmouth
3. Trevone Boykin - TCU
4. Cody Kessler - USC
5. Jared Goff - Cal
6. Jacoby Brissett - NCSU
7. Vernon Adams - Oregon
8. Dak Prescott - Miss State
9. Connor Cook - Mich State
10. Vad Lee - JMU
11. Kyle Washington - something called Angelo State
12. Carson Wentz- NDSU
13. Paxton Lynch - Memphis
14. John Robertson - Nova
15. Christian Hackenburg - PSU

There is a very noticeable trend to his rankings, and if you follow him on Twitter it's not hidden.

Dalyn Williams is the perfect late-round pickup to become a "slash" type RB/WR. Not a QB at 5'11.

If I were the Saints GM I'd take a long look at Dak Prescott. FWIW he's my favorite of the bunch. Boykin also might be a great pick. Vad Lee is an interesting pick, too.

Other than that, so many of these guys look like great college players but questionable NFLers, IMO. For example, Adams was so dynamic in college, but can he do that in the NFL?

Before you ask clenzy I do realize this is not your list

[DaBizon]

LA is the perfect fit for Carson. Great defense. Good O line and strong running game. Kinda sounds like NDSU all over again

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

[BisonFan02]

Dalyn Williams is the perfect late-round pickup to become a "slash" type RB/WR. Not a QB at 5'11.

If I were the Saints GM I'd take a long look at Dak Prescott. FWIW he's my favorite of the bunch. Boykin also might be a great pick. Vad Lee is an interesting pick, too.

Other than that, so many of these guys look like great college players but questionable NFLers, IMO. For example, Adams was so dynamic in college, but can he do that in the NFL?

Before you ask clenzy I do realize this is not your list

Don't call Dalyn a "slash" type RB/WR.....that's racist. xlolx

[gotts]

Everyone knows I am one of the biggest FCS nerds in existence. Like Emory, I cannot comprehend why LA is bat**** crazy about Carson Wentz. I see him as a highly skilled project QB that could be good, but he's not NFL ready on Day one like, say, Andrew Luck was.

I read something on r/nfl_draft (https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl_draft) (don't remember which thread, sorry) where a comment made a very good point. You used to see a lot more plug and play type draft picks, but as college football has evolved, it's changed away from a lot of the similarities of the pro game. More teams running almost-gimmicky spread, etc. (broad generalization, but it's the best I remember). When you used to have QB's ready to enter the league, now it's the exception, rather than the rule, if you're drafting a QB you can plug in right away. The QB is still a hot commodity, so there is going to be quite a bit more of a bump to the perceived value that position.

While I do think it's somewhat surreal that there's the possibility of Wentz going #1, I think it's hardly from totally far-fetched.

[ST_Lawson]

McNair at 3


Steve McNair (Alcorn State) - 3rd overall in the 1995 draft
John Thierry (Alcorn State) - 11th overall in the 1994 draft
Jerry Rice (Mississippi Valley State) - 16th overall in the 1985 draft
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (Tennessee State) - 16th overall in the 2008 draft
Joe Flacco (Delaware) - 18th overall in the 2008 draft
Aaron Jones (Eastern Kentucky) - 18th overall in the 1988 draft
Sylvester Morris (Jackson State) - 21st overall in the 2000 draft
Eric Green (Liberty) - 21st overall in the 1990 draft
Tyrone Poole (Fort Valley State) - 22nd overall in the 1995 draft
Robert Porcher (SC State) - 26th overall in the 1992 draft
Shawn Collins (Northern Arizona) - 27th overall in the 1989 draft
Jamain Stephens (North Carolina A&T) - 29th overall in the 1996 draft

If you include drafts from before the I-A/AA split in (I think) '78, then you do actually have a "small school" player go #1 overall. Ed "Too Tall" Jones was drafted #1 overall (by Dallas) in '74 out of Tennessee State, which I believe was a DII school at the time (currently FCS in the Ohio Valley Conference).

[NHwildEcat]

So the Cowboys are not going to draft Wentz in the 2nd round? Damn.

[clenz]

If you include drafts from before the I-A/AA split in (I think) '78, then you do actually have a "small school" player go #1 overall. Ed "Too Tall" Jones was drafted #1 overall (by Dallas) in '74 out of Tennessee State, which I believe was a DII school at the time (currently FCS in the Ohio Valley Conference).
I thought about it, though to be consistent with how I view, argue, use stats, etc... across the board I had to leave the cut off at 1978. I'd hate for someone to be able to "You only argue to support your point and you cherry pick". While true, I really try to be as consistent as possible in time framing and where/how I pick stats if it helps or hurts me.

Hell, I still struggle to really consider 1978-1984 as "FCS" at times because of the dramatic shift that happened in 1985 that truly shaped the FCS as we know it. Yes, I realize the 1978 shift was larger in terms of school affected in terms of divisional alignment, but I think 1984/1985 had as much/more impact in creating the FCS as we know it now.

[BisonTru]

Everyone knows I am one of the biggest FCS nerds in existence. Like Emory, I cannot comprehend why LA is bat**** crazy about Carson Wentz. I see him as a highly skilled project QB that could be good, but he's not NFL ready on Day one like, say, Andrew Luck was.

What don't you like? He's big, athletic, tons of arm, accurate, absolutely loves football, is uber competitive, really smart, understands pro style offenses very well. The only big issue I can see is he didn't play at the highest level of college competition, which is a huge red flag for causal NFL fans. However, here I would expect that concern to be a much lesser knock.

[superman7515]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15203927/los-angeles-rams-lean-jared-goff-no-1-pick


The Los Angeles Rams (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/la/los-angeles-rams) are leaning toward making Cal quarterback Jared Goff the top overall pick after acquiring the selection Thursday from the Tennessee Titans (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ten/tennessee-titans), but a team source added that the team would also consider North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz before it has to make the pick on April 28.

The source said that one reason the Rams made this deal now was to give the team "two weeks to debate between Goff and Wentz. You can make a convincing case for both. Both are going to be good."

Tennessee sent the top selection, along with its fourth- (No. 113) and sixth-round (No. 177) picks this year, to the Rams in a blockbuster trade (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15201946/tennessee-titans-trade-no-1-pick-los-angeles-rams) in exchange for Los Angeles' first-round pick (No. 15), two second-round selections (Nos. 43 and 45) and a third-round pick (No. 76) in 2016. The Titans will also get the Rams' first- and third-round picks in 2017.

Sources told ESPN that the trade was agreed to Wednesday night, but the Rams didn't want to steal any thunder from Kobe Bryant's final game. It was decided the Titans would announce the deal at 9 a.m. ET Thursday.

"There was no need for the news of the trade to get out while Kobe was playing his last game," one Rams official told ESPN. "Kobe deserved his night, and there was no reason for this trade to be announced on his night."...

[THE HERD]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15203927/los-angeles-rams-lean-jared-goff-no-1-pick

I don't buy that crap that they are deciding between the two......you make a trade like this and you know for damn sure who ya want! Whether its Goff or Wentz who knows..

[Daytripper]

Bison fans were insufferable before. If Wentz goes first, god help us all.

[clenz]

I don't buy that crap that they are deciding between the two......you make a trade like this and you know for damn sure who ya want! Whether its Goff or Wentz who knows..
Not really. The Browns are stting at 2 and would take whoever is left. If you don't move in front of them you may not get the one you want. This move ensured they don't have to worry about Cleveland. They now have time to look at both closely and really compare the two without having to worry about needing to make a late move.

[F'N Hawks]

Not really. The Browns are stting at 2 and would take whoever is left. If you don't move in front of them you may not get the one you want. This move ensured they don't have to worry about Cleveland. They now have time to look at both closely and really compare the two without having to worry about needing to make a late move.

Cleveland is sitting there laughing. Give up nothing and get the other one.

[Yote 53]

Or time to figure out who Cleveland wants and fleece them in a trade swapping the #1 and #2 picks. Maybe they decide either QB is fine and make a trade down and recoup some picks.

[clenz]

Cleveland is sitting there laughing. Give up nothing and get the other one.
Cleveland no longer has a choice in the matter either.

I'm not comparing Wentz to Manning in an stretch but this kind of has a feel to the Manning/Leaf situation. The Colts only wanted Manning, and told him before the draft he was theirs. Most thought the Chargers were laughing as they wanted Leaf and were making the Colts sweat and were happy with either.

It's better to have the choice than getting the left overs.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think the Rams are going to go for Goff and as a Saints fan I am very comfortable with this. I'm not sold on him being a slam-dunk prospect either. In fact if I represent an NFL team and don't need a QB, I'm thinking trading down is the right move (oh, hello, Titans!).

[F'N Hawks]

Cleveland no longer has a choice in the matter either.

I'm not comparing Wentz to Manning in an stretch but this kind of has a feel to the Manning/Leaf situation. The Colts only wanted Manning, and told him before the draft he was theirs. Most thought the Chargers were laughing as they wanted Leaf and were making the Colts sweat and were happy with either.

It's better to have the choice than getting the left overs.

This is hardly Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf. To compare either Goff or Wentz to Manning coming out of college is a travesty of justice. Both these two are reaches to be solid Top 10 NFL QB's in their career. Manning was about as polished as it gets.

[F'N Hawks]

I see this draft as more of a 1999 Tim Couch/Donnie Mac/Akili Smith deal where any of the three could go #1 but nobody knows how good they are going to be. The Manning's and Luck were about as "sure-fire" polished/mature as there has been.

[clenz]

This is hardly Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf. To compare either Goff or Wentz to Manning coming out of college is a travesty of justice. Both these two are reaches to be solid Top 10 NFL QB's in their career. Manning was about as polished as it gets.

I literally ****ing said, in my first damn sentence, I wasn't comparing either to ****ing Manning

Holy ****. Did you even read the damn post?

[BisonFan02]

I literally ****ing said, in my first damn sentence, I wasn't comparing either to ****ing Manning

Holy ****. Did you even read the damn post?

His ass still stings that a NDSU player even has the remote chance of being a #1 pick in the NFL draft....while his fave program is dropping sports and not relevant. xlolx

[dgtw]

Cleveland is sitting there laughing. Give up nothing and get the other one.

Unless someone takes the other one in between the Browns and where the Rams were picking before.

[AmsterBison]

Cleveland is sitting there laughing. Give up nothing and get the other one.

Uh, what? Say Cleveland really wants a certain QB and LA picks him first. You're telling us that Cleveland's front office is going to be slapping each other on the back and laughing? Riiiiight.

The Browns are going to be coming up with contingency plans for the next two weeks... Heck, maybe they'll trade their 2nd pick since getting the guy they want is no longer a sure thing.

BTW, it's a lot less absurd to compare Wentz to Manning than it is to compare Wentz to Leaf.

[BisonTru]

Both these two are reaches to be solid Top 10 NFL QB's in their career. .

I beg to differ, and the Rams just dumped a ton of picks because they are seeing the same **** I am in at least one of these picks. Like it or not, but Wentz and Goff are both solid QB prospects.

Again, for the guys that don't believe Wentz is a top 10 prospect, what don't you like?

[F'N Hawks]

I literally ****ing said, in my first damn sentence, I wasn't comparing either to ****ing Manning

Holy ****. Did you even read the damn post?

I ****ing misread your ****ing **** post OK ****in A. ****.

[Bisonator]

You don't trade that many picks to get to #1 and not know who your guy is, the Rams certainly know who they are picking but obviously they aren't going to say it. It could be either Wentz or Goff but IMO Wentz would be a better fit for their offense. Hell it's basically what Wentz has been learning the last 5 years. Their receiving corp isn't great but they use the RB's and TE's a lot.

I don't believe Goff is as "ready to start" as most of the experts believe. He came from a system that I don't believe translates as well to the NFL. Doesn't mean he won't be a good NFL QB but I don't think he's better then Wentz just because he played in the FBS. Vernon Adams went from the FCS to the same conference as Goff and lit it up so I'm not buying the "level of competition" argument either.

[Twentysix]

I literally ****ing said, in my first damn sentence, I wasn't comparing either to ****ing Manning

Holy ****. Did you even read the damn post?

Lol, I posted that you said the same thing, but for some reason my phone's posts don't show up.

[catamount man]

So hope Wentz is the #1 overall pick. Viva la FCS! LOL! GO CATS!

[F'N Hawks]

Lol, I posted that you said the same thing, but for some reason my phone's posts don't show up.
Admittedly I took it as one had to be Manning and one had to be Leaf. Crazy I know. My comparison is more apt snce all three were not sure things but so be it.

[F'N Hawks]

Unless someone takes the other one in between the Browns and where the Rams were picking before.

You realize the Browns are picking second, right?

The speculation is they like Goff as much as Wentz, hence my post.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

You don't trade that many picks to get to #1 and not know who your guy is, the Rams certainly know who they are picking but obviously they aren't going to say it. It could be either Wentz or Goff but IMO Wentz would be a better fit for their offense. Hell it's basically what Wentz has been learning the last 5 years. Their receiving corp isn't great but they use the RB's and TE's a lot.

I don't believe Goff is as "ready to start" as most of the experts believe. He came from a system that I don't believe translates as well to the NFL. Doesn't mean he won't be a good NFL QB but I don't think he's better then Wentz just because he played in the FBS. Vernon Adams went from the FCS to the same conference as Goff and lit it up so I'm not buying the "level of competition" argument either.


This here.

Rams are taking Wentz.

- - - Updated - - -


Bison fans were insufferable before. If Wentz goes first, god help us all.


Too bad for you!

[Bisonator]

Listen very carefully to this interview with Fisher.;)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15203927/los-angeles-rams-lean-jared-goff-no-1-pick

[JSUSoutherner]

Just watched a Sports Center clip where they were talking about the Panthers' schedule next year.

They think Wentz and the Rams can take down Carolina.

[TheRevSFA]

Because the Rams know about first round, first pick QB talent....why hello Sam Bradford!

It will be cool to see Wentz go first though. I wish him the best wherever he lands

[uni88]

Admittedly I took it as one had to be Manning and one had to be Leaf. Crazy I know. My comparison is more apt snce all three were not sure things but so be it.
Rather than comparing Wentz to Manning or Leaf lets compare him to the last FCS QB taken in the 1st round. Having seen them both play in person and on screen Wentz is a better prospect than Flacco was. IMO, Wentz brings a lot of the same skills/attributes but is more athletic and an even better leader. Based on actual results, when would people pick Flacco now? I'm not sure about Wentz as a #1 pick but I can see the allure and would definitely pick him in front of Goff.

[mvemjsunpx]

Just watched a Sports Center clip where they were talking about the Panthers' schedule next year.

They think Wentz and the Rams can take down Carolina.


The Rams have had no trouble beating good teams. It's everyone else that gives them problems. xcoffeex

[Twentysix]

Listen very carefully to this interview with Fisher.;)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15203927/los-angeles-rams-lean-jared-goff-no-1-pick

Wow. Bold claim. Carson Wentz will win a superbowl.

I really don't think they are taking Goff. xpeacex

It's just icing on the cake that LA is only 120 miles away.


This whole thing is so good for the FCS. And even better for NDSU.

I expect NDSU's #1 draft pick + back to back to back to back to back national championships has to make them start winning EVEN MORE recruiting battles vs MAC and MWC schools.

[Professor Chaos]

The unfortunate side effect to all this Wentz hype is blowhards like Skip Bayless get to spew ignorance about NDSU and the subdivision as a whole when they usually wouldn't ever discuss it (which is another reason why I love the FCS - idiots like this don't pay attention to or comment on it).

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=15202272

In case you don't want to give it a click or listen to it the general gist is that no player from NDSU who plays teams like UND, USD, SDSU, WIU, SIU, or a championship game against Jacksonville St is worth what the Rams gave up and they're insane if they pick Wentz. Oh, and he's formulated this opinion having never watched a single snap of any game that Carson Wentz has ever played in.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who shouted at the top of his lungs for 4 straight months 2 years ago that Johnny Manziel would "be a star in the NFL" and that the Texans were "insane" for not taking him #1 overall.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I am pretty sure the Rams are taking Goff. Sometimes, the obvious answer is the right one. Goff is from California, went to high school in California, and did pretty well in college California. He knows the pressure LA's new QB will be under, and knows that he won't have the luxury of growing into the job. If it's a "virtual tie" between Goff and Wentz, if they are seriously taking Wentz, they had better have a very very good reason for taking him over Goff, like many reasons.

Wentz will go to the Browns and he will do better than Manziel. That is my feeling as to how this will play out. NDSU fans better hope the Browns have a good overall plan for the future, hopefully involving some enormous, talented linemen.

[Professor Chaos]

I am pretty sure the Rams are taking Goff. Sometimes, the obvious answer is the right one. Goff is from California, went to high school in California, and did pretty well in college California. He knows the pressure LA's new QB will be under, and knows that he won't have the luxury of growing into the job. If it's a "virtual tie" between Goff and Wentz, if they are seriously taking Wentz, they had better have a very very good reason for taking him over Goff, like many reasons.

Wentz will go to the Browns and he will do better than Manziel. That is my feeling as to how this will play out. NDSU fans better hope the Browns have a good overall plan for the future, hopefully involving some enormous, talented linemen.
In an interview Fisher gave yesterday he was about to say that "Wentz will win a Super Bowl one day" before catching himself after the "win" and saying "Wentz will play in a Super Bowl one day". I think that's as good of a reason as any to pick him if that's what you truly believe.

Honestly, the best pick is the one that gives your team the best chance to win whether he's from San Francisco or Siberia. I have no idea which one that is between Wentz and Goff for the LA Rams but the guys making that decision for the Rams are paid handsomely to find that out. I just think it's too simplistic of an argument to say that Goff is the pick because he's more local. LA is 400 miles Berkeley (which is near where Goff grew up). Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Mexico are all closer to LA than that. He's obviously more local than Wentz is but it's not like he's a SoCal kid.

I'd agree that Goff is the safer pick of the two given proximity and his level of competition in college but do they give what they gave up to make the safe pick? I'm not so sure. It would've been safer to stay where they were and take Paxton Lynch or hope Wentz or Goff fell to them.

Regardless, both Fisher and Les Snead (the Rams GM) are on the hot seat to win soon so if they don't pick a QB that can win for them it won't matter how safe they were, they'll be looking for new jobs within a year or two.

[clenz]

The unfortunate side effect to all this Wentz hype is blowhards like Skip Bayless get to spew ignorance about NDSU and the subdivision as a whole when they usually wouldn't ever discuss it (which is another reason why I love the FCS - idiots like this don't pay attention to or comment on it).

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=15202272

In case you don't want to give it a click or listen to it the general gist is that no player from NDSU who plays teams like UND, USD, SDSU, WIU, SIU, or a championship game against Jacksonville St is worth what the Rams gave up and they're insane if they pick Wentz. Oh, and he's formulated this opinion having never watched a single snap of any game that Carson Wentz has ever played in.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who shouted at the top of his lungs for 4 straight months 2 years ago that Johnny Manziel would "be a star in the NFL" and that the Texans were "insane" for not taking him #1 overall.
That falls right in line with what Kurt Warner is working with UNI on changing. He was on UNI's campus doing some stuff, and has said this same thing for a few years about UNI basketball - change the perception.

Worth the 4 minutes to watch...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWaqYolrtMo

And a shorter version of his changing perception from during March Madness about it
https://amp.twimg.com/v/1dcb5bbb-f66e-4aa5-b03f-a84cff37c3e5

http://www.inquisitr.com/2904786/watch-kurt-warner-celebrate-with-uni-panthers-after-buzzer-beating-win/

[kdinva]

The unfortunate side effect to all this Wentz hype is blowhards like Skip Bayless get to spew ignorance about NDSU and the subdivision as a whole when they usually wouldn't ever discuss it (which is another reason why I love the FCS - idiots like this don't pay attention to or comment on it).


Has Herbstreit chimed in yet? If not, he'll say Wentz is a 6th rounder at best.....xbangx

[Professor Chaos]

That falls right in line with what Kurt Warner is working with UNI on changing. He was on UNI's campus doing some stuff, and has said this same thing for a few years about UNI basketball - change the perception.

Worth the 4 minutes to watch...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWaqYolrtMo

And a shorter version of his changing perception from during March Madness about it
https://amp.twimg.com/v/1dcb5bbb-f66e-4aa5-b03f-a84cff37c3e5

http://www.inquisitr.com/2904786/watch-kurt-warner-celebrate-with-uni-panthers-after-buzzer-beating-win/
It is nice to have Kurt Warner and Ron Jaworski, both HOF caliber NFL QBs who came from FCS profile schools, as analysts for the two networks primarily involved in covering the draft. I know Jaworski has had some fun with some Philly sports talk guys who put down Wentz based on his level of competition and I'd guess Warner has done the same from time to time with Wentz and with other lower division prospects.

[JSUSoutherner]

The unfortunate side effect to all this Wentz hype is blowhards like Skip Bayless get to spew ignorance about NDSU and the subdivision as a whole when they usually wouldn't ever discuss it (which is another reason why I love the FCS - idiots like this don't pay attention to or comment on it).

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=15202272

In case you don't want to give it a click or listen to it the general gist is that no player from NDSU who plays teams like UND, USD, SDSU, WIU, SIU, or a championship game against Jacksonville St is worth what the Rams gave up and they're insane if they pick Wentz. Oh, and he's formulated this opinion having never watched a single snap of any game that Carson Wentz has ever played in.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who shouted at the top of his lungs for 4 straight months 2 years ago that Johnny Manziel would "be a star in the NFL" and that the Texans were "insane" for not taking him #1 overall.

Seems like the Texans dodged a bullet to me. I hope this guy never plays again. Von Miller needs to give him a swift kick in the ass.
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2633065-johnny-manziel-accused-of-trashing-west-hollywood-mansion-he-rented-during-party

[IBleedYellow]

It is nice to have Kurt Warner and Ron Jaworski, both HOF caliber NFL QBs who came from FCS profile schools, as analysts for the two networks primarily involved in covering the draft. I know Jaworski has had some fun with some Philly sports talk guys who put down Wentz based on his level of competition and I'd guess Warner has done the same from time to time with Wentz and with other lower division prospects.

Jaws LOVED Carson and NDSU when we hosted them @ our Proday. Hopefully Carson can live up to expectations.

[BisonTru]

I am pretty sure the Rams are taking Goff. Sometimes, the obvious answer is the right one. Goff is from California, went to high school in California, and did pretty well in college California. He knows the pressure LA's new QB will be under, and knows that he won't have the luxury of growing into the job. If it's a "virtual tie" between Goff and Wentz, if they are seriously taking Wentz, they had better have a very very good reason for taking him over Goff, like many reasons.

Wentz will go to the Browns and he will do better than Manziel. That is my feeling as to how this will play out. NDSU fans better hope the Browns have a good overall plan for the future, hopefully involving some enormous, talented linemen.

Yes, because where they are born is the most important metric in evaluating quarterbacks. xrolleyesx

Again, I'll ask the guys who don't believe Wentz is top pick, what don't you like? I'm not trying to be an uber homer even though I'm sure I'm coming off as one. Just want some takes opposite mine other than he's not from California.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes, because where they are born is the most important metric in evaluating quarterbacks. xrolleyesx

Again, I'll ask the guys who don't believe Wentz is top pick, what don't you like? I'm not trying to be an uber homer even though I'm sure I'm coming off as one. Just want some takes opposite mine other than he's not from California.

I'm sure this has been gone over before in different places, but Wentz has never been the sun around which the NDSU system rotates. He had many advantages as a member of NDSU, most notably that punishing running game and mostly being able to use that off of play-action or some form of play-action to complete passes. He almost always had plenty of time to throw and very infrequently had to wing it deep in order to win football games. Does he have the arm to do that? Yes, he has a very, very good arm, but it's not as good as Flacco's was at Delaware. Flacco during the FCSNCG threw a pass across his body 40 or 50 yards, possibly more, that resulted in a touchdown that kept Delaware in the game.

Wentz is definitely a great physical talent, but also, he only really proved himself over two seasons (granted, with NCs in both of them). He couldn't unseat Jensen during years when I had to fight to see Jensen considered an A-A (which I thought Jensen was). Again, this is nothing against the kid. I readily acknowledge his physical tools, leadership, and all that. But NDSU never really leaned on his arm.

[clenz]

I'm sure this has been gone over before in different places, but Wentz has never been the sun around which the NDSU system rotates. He had many advantages as a member of NDSU, most notably that punishing running game and mostly being able to use that off of play-action or some form of play-action to complete passes. He almost always had plenty of time to throw and very infrequently had to wing it deep in order to win football games. Does he have the arm to do that? Yes, he has a very, very good arm, but it's not as good as Flacco's was at Delaware. Flacco during the FCSNCG threw a pass across his body 40 or 50 yards, possibly more, that resulted in a touchdown that kept Delaware in the game.

Wentz is definitely a great physical talent, but also, he only really proved himself over two seasons (granted, with NCs in both of them). He couldn't unseat Jensen during years when I had to fight to see Jensen considered an A-A (which I thought Jensen was). Again, this is nothing against the kid. I readily acknowledge his physical tools, leadership, and all that. But NDSU never really leaned on his arm.
He isn't 100% wrong on this.

Look at Alabama and their QBs. This past year was the first time a Bama QB had won a game he started in the NFL since something like 1986.

Bama QB's almost always have the tools and IQ. They also tend to have more talent than everyone else taking care of them.

Look how well Stick performed as a freshman on the same team. Better numbers than Wentz, undefeated as a starter, etc...

There was literally zero drop from Wentz to Stick. Maybe Stick is a #1 overall pick too....There was no drop from Jensen to Wentz either and Jensen wasn't even drafted (was he?).

There's a legit reason to wonder about that.

I go back to the UD/UNI playoff game in 07. Warming up Flacco was going 70 yards in the air with just a normal throw. No crow hop, no run up . Just a step and throw. He had 3 UNI All American's from the DL and LB hitting him on every single play of the game, including multiple times with a DT and DE haning off of him where he stepped through it and made a throw into a pin hole 20 yards down field.

This play, and photo set, was literally the entire game for him.

To back up LFN's point, this throw as 40 yards on a ****ing rope while being chased 30 yards across the field, having a DL fall on you, while falling OB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmHz7yvahbk
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/wcfcourier.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/e0/9e01e166-746d-5cec-b4f3-8e39bb46e490/9e01e166-746d-5cec-b4f3-8e39bb46e490.image.jpg
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/wcfcourier.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/b8/1b8c4034-6b5d-11e2-90ac-0019bb2963f4/5109f051472f6.image.jpg
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/wcfcourier.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/86/18622572-6b5d-11e2-942c-0019bb2963f4/5109f04befcc3.image.jpg




I like Wentz. I think he has all of the tools. I watched him play a lot, in person multiple times. He's good..real good. Flacco was a different level.

[Southern Bison]

Cleveland no longer has a choice in the matter either.

I'm not comparing Wentz to Manning in an stretch but this kind of has a feel to the Manning/Leaf situation. The Colts only wanted Manning, and told him before the draft he was theirs. Most thought the Chargers were laughing as they wanted Leaf and were making the Colts sweat and were happy with either.

It's better to have the choice than getting the left overs.
It was the Giants & Eli...not the Colts & Peyton. Archie wasn't going to let Eli play in a small market.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[clenz]

It was the Giants & Eli...not the Colts & Peyton.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Errrmm....

http://mlm-s1-p.mlstatic.com/1998-playoff-momentum-ssd-rivals-peyton-manning-ryan-leaf-qb-7808-MLM5287388897_102013-F.jpg

[FormerPokeCenter]

You forgot Leonard Smith...McNeese Cornerback, 17th overall, 1st Round, 1983 draft

[BisonTru]

I'm sure this has been gone over before in different places, but Wentz has never been the sun around which the NDSU system rotates. He had many advantages as a member of NDSU, most notably that punishing running game and mostly being able to use that off of play-action or some form of play-action to complete passes. He almost always had plenty of time to throw and very infrequently had to wing it deep in order to win football games. Does he have the arm to do that? Yes, he has a very, very good arm, but it's not as good as Flacco's was at Delaware. Flacco during the FCSNCG threw a pass across his body 40 or 50 yards, possibly more, that resulted in a touchdown that kept Delaware in the game.

Wentz is definitely a great physical talent, but also, he only really proved himself over two seasons (granted, with NCs in both of them). He couldn't unseat Jensen during years when I had to fight to see Jensen considered an A-A (which I thought Jensen was). Again, this is nothing against the kid. I readily acknowledge his physical tools, leadership, and all that. But NDSU never really leaned on his arm.

Jensen was undefeated in Wentz's sophomore season. You can't pull an undefeated quarterback with two rings. Even if you're 100% positive your back up is better you make that move and lose a game (remember it's a team sport) fans will be calling for your head. Hell, Randy Hedberg said when he was at Southern Illinois they told their players hit Jensen, but help him back up we don't want their back-up coming in. Even other teams knew how special Wentz was. There was also quite the debate among the fanbase whether we should sit Stick when Wentz gets back and we all knew how good he was and that he was a potential first round draft pick.

As far as never leaning on Wentz. We didn't need to lean on him often, but never? Not true, we had multiple game winning drives, I believe 3 in the 2014 playoffs. Another impressive one against UNI this last year. Hell our last drive against South Dakota he made a pass to the far hash that would have been completed, but our WR slipped on the comeback, and he had a broken wrist.

The arm isn't a concern. Is it as big as Flacco's. Probably not, but Colin Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet have cannons, but neither can read a defense. Andy Benoit, MMQB and writer for SI, sat down with Wentz and said it's like talking to a 5 year NFL veteran. He said it's almost intimidating how knowledgeable he is about the game.

FWIW, although I don't really agree with the "his team was too good" or "he didn't play enough games" argument that is much better than "where he was born."

[Southern Bison]

Errrmm....

http://mlm-s1-p.mlstatic.com/1998-playoff-momentum-ssd-rivals-peyton-manning-ryan-leaf-qb-7808-MLM5287388897_102013-F.jpg
Damn...I got my Mannings mixed up. That was Eli & Philip Rivers. Still involved the Chargers & that's what threw me off.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[BisonTru]

Look how well Stick performed as a freshman on the same team. Better numbers than Wentz, undefeated as a starter, etc...

There was literally zero drop from Wentz to Stick. Maybe Stick is a #1 overall pick too....There was no drop from Jensen to Wentz either and Jensen wasn't even drafted (was he?).

There's a legit reason to wonder about that.


This is just mind boggling. I just don't get how people can watch Jensen and Stick and not see the difference to Wentz. FWIW, many of our fans don't see it. Hell, the Czar of football can't tell the difference from Jensen to Wentz. Wentz is better than both of those two in almost every category outside of Stick's speed. The throws he can make and his understanding of offenses and defenses is on a whole different level.

Flacco has a bigger arm, but this isn't just a javelin throwing competition. There are so many aspects that make up great quarterbacks, and in hindsight Flacco was probably under drafted. Nobody thinks Wentz doesn't have enough arm and most peg it as above average in the NFL.

[Professor Chaos]

Look how well Stick performed as a freshman on the same team. Better numbers than Wentz, undefeated as a starter, etc...

There was literally zero drop from Wentz to Stick. Maybe Stick is a #1 overall pick too....There was no drop from Jensen to Wentz either and Jensen wasn't even drafted (was he?).

There's a legit reason to wonder about that.
Come on clenz, just from watching the two NDSU/UNI games last year you should be able to see why NDSU went undefeated with Stick under center, the entire team morphed when Wentz went down. If Stick starts game #1 against UNI I think UNI wins that game by 10 points. Wentz threw for 200+ yards in the 2nd half alone of that game against a UNI secondary full of NFL prospects. On 3rd and 4th down in the 2nd half of that game he went 8-9 for 110 yards and 2 TDs (with 7 conversions). Stick threw for 116 yards total against UNI in the playoffs.

You saw how the NDSU defense had improved by the time that FCS quarterfinal matchup rolled around. I think if (a healthy) Wentz starts that game the Bison win by 20 instead of 10. In many ways Wentz's injury was a blessing in disguise and gave the rest of the team the kick in the ass it needed. I think they relied a little too much on their supremely talented signal caller to bail them out of anything with Wentz in there and Stick was the beneficiary of playing with a refocused team that had a ton of talent around the QB that wasn't necessarily playing to their potential with Wentz in there.

[Bisonator]

Come on clenz, just from watching the two NDSU/UNI games last year you should be able to see why NDSU went undefeated with Stick under center, the entire team morphed when Wentz went down. If Stick starts game #1 against UNI I think UNI wins that game by 10 points. Wentz threw for 200+ yards in the 2nd half alone of that game against a UNI secondary full of NFL prospects. On 3rd and 4th down in the 2nd half of that game he went 8-9 for 110 yards and 2 TDs (with 7 conversions). Stick threw for 116 yards total against UNI in the playoffs.

You saw how the NDSU defense had improved by the time that FCS quarterfinal matchup rolled around. I think if (a healthy) Wentz starts that game the Bison win by 20 instead of 10. In many ways Wentz's injury was a blessing in disguise and gave the rest of the team the kick in the ass it needed. I think they relied a little too much on their supremely talented signal caller to bail them out of anything with Wentz in there and Stick was the beneficiary of playing with a refocused team that had a ton of talent around the QB that wasn't necessarily playing to their potential with Wentz in there.
Cue the "UNI was in a prevent and played way off the receivers, damn Farley!" same BS we always hear from UNI fans. Yet look at the game winning TD and tell me the receiver was wide open. xrolleyesx

[Thumper 76]

Come on clenz, just from watching the two NDSU/UNI games last year you should be able to see why NDSU went undefeated with Stick under center, the entire team morphed when Wentz went down. If Stick starts game #1 against UNI I think UNI wins that game by 10 points. Wentz threw for 200+ yards in the 2nd half alone of that game against a UNI secondary full of NFL prospects. On 3rd and 4th down in the 2nd half of that game he went 8-9 for 110 yards and 2 TDs (with 7 conversions). Stick threw for 116 yards total against UNI in the playoffs.

You saw how the NDSU defense had improved by the time that FCS quarterfinal matchup rolled around. I think if (a healthy) Wentz starts that game the Bison win by 20 instead of 10. In many ways Wentz's injury was a blessing in disguise and gave the rest of the team the kick in the ass it needed. I think they relied a little too much on their supremely talented signal caller to bail them out of anything with Wentz in there and Stick was the beneficiary of playing with a refocused team that had a ton of talent around the QB that wasn't necessarily playing to their potential with Wentz in there.

I would agree with this. From the SDSU perspective, Wentz was just brilliant, he made every big play when it counted. If you switch him with Stick, and go even further and flip Lujan with TC, I think it's a much different game. NDSU would still have won, but I think it's a much closer game.

[BisonFan02]

Wentz is physically the best QB to ever play at NDSU....and it is not even close. The only debate I would have is.....4 mins left (or even more)...need 7 to win. Who ya got? Wentz or Jensen? I had those questions going into Wentz's first season as starter (and even this year a little) since it seemed like Jensen had ice in his veins. I'm not so sure I would even debate that anymore.... xlolx

[BisonTru]

Rand Getlin ‏@Rand_Getlin 35m35 minutes ago
Been told multiple times that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff graded out higher for a number of teams than Mariota and Winston did last year.

Hmm... so much for a weak QB class.

[BisonTru]

I would agree with this. From the SDSU perspective, Wentz was just brilliant, he made every big play when it counted. If you switch him with Stick, and go even further and flip Lujan with TC, I think it's a much different game. NDSU would still have won, but I think it's a much closer game.

What's the latest from spring ball about your guys' QB situation. Is there a front runner? I kinda like both. Outside of Norvell, I think both would challenge for the starting job for any team in the conference.

[Thumper 76]

What's the latest from spring ball about your guys' QB situation. Is there a front runner? I kinda like both. Outside of Norvell, I think both would challenge for the starting job for any team in the conference.

Looks like Lujan hasn't been taking any reps and it'll be a pretty even race once the fall rolls around, but we'll see. I guess an incoming frosh (can't think of his name) who graduated early to be able to participate in this years spring ball is looking pretty impressive.

Here's Zimmers breakdown of it so far
http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/college/south-dakota-state-university/2016/04/11/qb-battle-wont-split-lujan-christion/82885522/

[BisonBacker]

I've been catching up and doing quite a bit of reading by the armchair QB's and the comments that I shake my head at are these.

Goff is more pro ready. Really? He didn't run a pro style offense he ran a spread offense. Advantage Carson Wentz!
Goff is the safer pick. Again please explain how this argument can be made? Nobody is going to be a sure fire bet and it's not like Goff lit up the Pac12.
Wentz is a bigger gamble. Refer to my last point.
Goff has a higher floor. Refer to my Goff's the safer pick fallacy.
The level of competition......Wasn't Senior Bowl and the Combine featuring BCS players?

These knuckleheads who think because Goff played at Cal are in for a rude awakening if they think Goff is head and shoulders (comment I've also heard) above Carson Wentz. Both are good QB's but for obvious reasons I pick Carson but not only because I'm an NDSU fan I just believe he's a better QB after watching both. Granted I've not seen hours of film on Goff I just don't see him being better than Carson solely because he played at Cal. Kurt Warner was rather disappointing that he poo pooed the FCS given he came from the FCS.

[clenz]

Kurt Warner was rather disappointing that he poo pooed the FCS given he came from the FCS.
You're literally making **** up, just as lakes is, in this regard.

[clenz]

Yep...he's really poo pooing Wentz...GMAFB


"I don't think it's a superstar class but I really liked what I saw from Carson Wentz,'' he said on NFL Network. "I thought he looked the best of all the quarterbacks out here.''

...

"He has a really big frame on him, but he doesn't appear to be that big when he's out here playing,'' Warner said. "What does that mean? It just means that he's smooth and he doesn't look too long. Sometimes I worry about as guys get a little bit taller, the longer their levers are, the more movement in the throw, which makes it harder to be accurate. And he doesn't appear to have that, very compact for a big guy.''


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/kurt_warner_says_carson_wentz_browns.html



Typical NDSU fan taking anything that isn't "ALL HAIL THE BISON" as a slight

[Professor Chaos]

I've been catching up and doing quite a bit of reading by the armchair QB's and the comments that I shake my head at are these.

Goff is more pro ready. Really? He didn't run a pro style offense he ran a spread offense. Advantage Carson Wentz!
Goff is the safer pick. Again please explain how this argument can be made? Nobody is going to be a sure fire bet and it's not like Goff lit up the Pac12.
Wentz is a bigger gamble. Refer to my last point.
Goff has a higher floor. Refer to my Goff's the safer pick fallacy.
The level of competition......Wasn't Senior Bowl and the Combine featuring BCS players?

These knuckleheads who think because Goff played at Cal are in for a rude awakening if they think Goff is head and shoulders (comment I've also heard) above Carson Wentz. Both are good QB's but for obvious reasons I pick Carson but not only because I'm an NDSU fan I just believe he's a better QB after watching both. Granted I've not seen hours of film on Goff I just don't see him being better than Carson solely because he played at Cal. Kurt Warner was rather disappointing that he poo pooed the FCS given he came from the FCS.
To play devil's advocate Goff "lit up" the Pac 12 more than Wentz lit up the MVFC if you look at their numbers. The argument that the offense Wentz ran didn't require the volume of throws that the offense Goff ran is valid but the point is that Goff has a larger sample size of throws against a higher level of competition so he's a more known commodity. That's why he's considered the safe pick in my estimation. But I'm a blatant homer and I think Wentz's intangibles and physical ability are superior to Goff thus making him the better pick regardless of the unknown about how he'll fare making the jump to the NFL. Again, I don't think the Rams would've given up what they did to make the safe pick.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

I'm praying that they take wentz in LA. Seems like a great situation with a team structure that is very similar to NDSU with great D and a solid punishing running game. Gotta think wentz fits in well with his skill set. If there is anything that we can agree on it's that Cleveland is where quarterbacks go to die.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Wonder if this will happen?

http://www.netonesports.com/2016/04/13/bills-broncos-browns-brokering-blockbuster-trade/

Would be better for Wentz. Wouldn't have to go to the Browns if the Rams don't pick him.

[dgtw]

You realize the Browns are picking second, right?

The speculation is they like Goff as much as Wentz, hence my post.

What I meant was if they had stayed where they were another team could have taken the other QB before their pick came around.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Jensen was undefeated in Wentz's sophomore season. You can't pull an undefeated quarterback with two rings. Even if you're 100% positive your back up is better you make that move and lose a game (remember it's a team sport) fans will be calling for your head. Hell, Randy Hedberg said when he was at Southern Illinois they told their players hit Jensen, but help him back up we don't want their back-up coming in. Even other teams knew how special Wentz was. There was also quite the debate among the fanbase whether we should sit Stick when Wentz gets back and we all knew how good he was and that he was a potential first round draft pick.

As far as never leaning on Wentz. We didn't need to lean on him often, but never? Not true, we had multiple game winning drives, I believe 3 in the 2014 playoffs. Another impressive one against UNI this last year. Hell our last drive against South Dakota he made a pass to the far hash that would have been completed, but our WR slipped on the comeback, and he had a broken wrist.

The arm isn't a concern. Is it as big as Flacco's. Probably not, but Colin Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet have cannons, but neither can read a defense. Andy Benoit, MMQB and writer for SI, sat down with Wentz and said it's like talking to a 5 year NFL veteran. He said it's almost intimidating how knowledgeable he is about the game.

FWIW, although I don't really agree with the "his team was too good" or "he didn't play enough games" argument that is much better than "where he was born."


This here.

Good post!

[BisonTru]

To play devil's advocate Goff "lit up" the Pac 12 more than Wentz lit up the MVFC if you look at their numbers. The argument that the offense Wentz ran didn't require the volume of throws that the offense Goff ran is valid but the point is that Goff has a larger sample size of throws against a higher level of competition so he's a more known commodity. That's why he's considered the safe pick in my estimation. But I'm a blatant homer and I think Wentz's intangibles and physical ability are superior to Goff thus making him the better pick regardless of the unknown about how he'll fare making the jump to the NFL. Again, I don't think the Rams would've given up what they did to make the safe pick.

Name a quarterback that came from an air raid system who succeeded in the NFL?

FWIW, I like Goff. He has the tools to succeed, but I'm much more nervous about his transition than a FCS QB from a very advanced pro system.

[BisonTru]

You're literally making **** up, just as lakes is, in this regard.

Can anyone post anything about Warner dogging Wentz? I've only seen a lot of complimentary stuff from him. Not sure where Lakes is getting his Warner hate.

[uni88]

I'm sure this has been gone over before in different places, but Wentz has never been the sun around which the NDSU system rotates. He had many advantages as a member of NDSU, most notably that punishing running game and mostly being able to use that off of play-action or some form of play-action to complete passes. He almost always had plenty of time to throw and very infrequently had to wing it deep in order to win football games. Does he have the arm to do that? Yes, he has a very, very good arm, but it's not as good as Flacco's was at Delaware. Flacco during the FCSNCG threw a pass across his body 40 or 50 yards, possibly more, that resulted in a touchdown that kept Delaware in the game.

Wentz is definitely a great physical talent, but also, he only really proved himself over two seasons (granted, with NCs in both of them). He couldn't unseat Jensen during years when I had to fight to see Jensen considered an A-A (which I thought Jensen was). Again, this is nothing against the kid. I readily acknowledge his physical tools, leadership, and all that. But NDSU never really leaned on his arm.


He isn't 100% wrong on this.

Look at Alabama and their QBs. This past year was the first time a Bama QB had won a game he started in the NFL since something like 1986.

Bama QB's almost always have the tools and IQ. They also tend to have more talent than everyone else taking care of them.

Look how well Stick performed as a freshman on the same team. Better numbers than Wentz, undefeated as a starter, etc...

There was literally zero drop from Wentz to Stick. Maybe Stick is a #1 overall pick too....There was no drop from Jensen to Wentz either and Jensen wasn't even drafted (was he?).

There's a legit reason to wonder about that.

I go back to the UD/UNI playoff game in 07. Warming up Flacco was going 70 yards in the air with just a normal throw. No crow hop, no run up . Just a step and throw. He had 3 UNI All American's from the DL and LB hitting him on every single play of the game, including multiple times with a DT and DE haning off of him where he stepped through it and made a throw into a pin hole 20 yards down field.

I like Wentz. I think he has all of the tools. I watched him play a lot, in person multiple times. He's good..real good. Flacco was a different level.

LFN is completely wrong and the Alabama comparison is worth considering but it's a subjective appraisal. LFN also mentions that Wentz only proved himself for 2 years, how many years did Flacco prove himself for? I think Wentz is better prepared than Flacco was and has a higher ceiling as a pro QB. He might not have as strong an arm but he's more athletic overall and his IQ & leadership are higher. I would agree that Flacco should have gone higher but I would take Wentz even higher than that, maybe he is a top 10 pick.

[BisonBacker]

I saw this posted on one of the Rams message boards. Wow.....


I grew up a fan of the California Golden Bears. I went to my first game at Memorial Stadium in 1968. Most of my family has graduated from Cal. What I can tell you is that Rams will probably select Goff # 1 overall in the 2016 NFL Draft. They should not, but, they will because by all of the measurable information that organizations collect these days. For them Goff will be the logical choice.

My personal feeling is that Goff is going to have a hard time in the NFL. Since college and professional football has been divided over the last decade or so by the use of the spread option and air raid concepts now popular in the college game it has become more difficult for college signal callers to make the transition from college to professional football. The two most successful of these quarterbacks have been Cam Newton and Colin Kaepernick.

Newton has been able to make the transition in part because the Carolina organization has been smart to allow Newton to use his own personal skill set while he has grown into the position of being an NFL quarterback (ie the the spread option concepts he used in college) while also allowing him to use his physical size and strength as a running threat, especially in the red zone.

Kaepernick was given the same advantage when he came out of college but the more the 49ers tried to force him into being a pro-style quarterback the more problems he had.

The history of Cal football over the last fifty years has been for the most part a history of bad to mediocre football. There has been a few exceptions but bad to mediocre has been the overall trend. However, even when Cal has been bad they have always been able to produce moments. Usually sneaking up on a superior team such as Stanford (Cal's #1 rival), UCLA, or Arizona. These upsets took place in years where Cal's record for the season could be anywhere from 2-9 to 4-7. In 1980 I personally saw the Golden Bears led by "The Great Jay Torchio" (note the sarcasm) beat Stanford and John Elway in the final game of the season. Cal finished the season with a record of 3-8 costing Roger Theder his job as head coach at Cal.

The reason why I mention all of this is because Jared Goff in his Cal career never produced "A Moment". In three seasons at Cal Jared Goff has defeated 3 division 1 football programs. All in his final season. He has beaten San Diego State, Air Force, and Washington State. That's it.

Cal started the 2015 campaign with a 5-0 record beating Grambing State, San Diego State, Texas, Washington, and Washington State. With a 5-0 start ABC decided to make the Cal-Utah game in week six a featured game of the week. Goff threw 5 interceptions and 0 Touchdowns under the bright lights of a national audience.

People are very impressed with Jared Goff's statistics. 43 Touchdown passes and over 4,000 yards passing in his final season at Cal. Before anyone gets excited about this they should know that Colby Cameron had similar statistics at Louisiana Tech during his senior season (Sonny Dykes last year at LA Tech) throwing for 4147 yards 31 TDs and 5 interceptions. Compared to Goff's 43 TD's with 13 interceptions. Cameron barely got a sniff in the NFL.

Is Goff going to be great? I do not know. Is he going to be a bust? I still do not know. What I do know is that he has never had to learn a play book having run the same offense in high school as he did in college.

My overall feeling is that if a great QB comes out of this draft it is going to be someone that we are presently not talking about.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2016/4/15/11438198/l-a-rams-mock-draft-titans-carson-wentz-6-rounds

[1984]

I'm sure this has been gone over before in different places, but Wentz has never been the sun around which the NDSU system rotates. He had many advantages as a member of NDSU, most notably that punishing running game and mostly being able to use that off of play-action or some form of play-action to complete passes. He almost always had plenty of time to throw and very infrequently had to wing it deep in order to win football games. Does he have the arm to do that? Yes, he has a very, very good arm, but it's not as good as Flacco's was at Delaware. Flacco during the FCSNCG threw a pass across his body 40 or 50 yards, possibly more, that resulted in a touchdown that kept Delaware in the game.

Wentz is definitely a great physical talent, but also, he only really proved himself over two seasons (granted, with NCs in both of them). He couldn't unseat Jensen during years when I had to fight to see Jensen considered an A-A (which I thought Jensen was). Again, this is nothing against the kid. I readily acknowledge his physical tools, leadership, and all that. But NDSU never really leaned on his arm.

Pretty much impossible to unseat a starting QB like Jensen. I mean all he was doing was winning game after game, championship after championship. Jensen won more games than any other QB in FCS history and you think any coach would sit him to play an unproven back up no matter how good the back up is.... not happening.

[AmsterBison]

Pretty much impossible to unseat a starting QB like Jensen. I mean all he was doing was winning game after game, championship after championship. Jensen won more games than any other QB in FCS history and you think any coach would sit him to play an unproven back up no matter how good the back up is.... not happening.

Coach Bohl switching QBs for any reason? Um, no, Bohl didn't roll that way. Besides, suppose that somebody other than Bohl was coach and he decided to bench his championship QB and team captain who then turned around and transferred... that'd have been an "OOPS" that you could read from the moon.

Bison fans knew that Wentz must be special before he ever got in a game because Coach Bohl actually let the offense run the QB.

[BisonTru]

FWIW, Kurt Warner is in the Goff camp. I'm not in the lakes camp of hate towards his pick since the NFL network is basically forcing him to make a decision. However, his reasoning I'll question. Goff is the safer pick in his opinion. He's tired of high ceiling guys flaming out. The reason Goff is the safer pick is because he threw more passes and played more games. I just have a hard time with that reasoning. I could give two ****s about number of pass attempts or number of games played. You scout the player for who he is today. Honestly fewer games played and passes attempted leaves me thinking there's more room for improvement.

[clenz]

Warner literally called Wentz the best QB in the draft.

Stop with the every one is anti NDSU bull ****

[NY Crusader 2010]

Pulling for Wentz big-time -- whether he's picked 1 or 2, I hope he turns into the next Peyton Manning and becomes the poster boy for FCS football.

[BisonTru]

Warner literally called Wentz the best QB in the draft.

Stop with the every one is anti NDSU bull ****

I just watched him twice on NFL network pick Goff. Again, I don't care. He's an analyst and they are asking him for his opinion on Wentz vs. Goff. There's plenty of people that agree Goff is the better prospect. I'm just pointing out he's also in that camp.

[Southern Bison]

The Rams don't play the "Greatest Show on Turf" style anymore like Goff did at Cal. He's a better fit for Chip Kelly style offense that was being run in Philly.

Wentz is clearly the better fit to their offense because the Rams' scheme is very similar to the Bison across the board...power running, strong defense, and passing when available or necessary.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....HOLD ON BIZON PLOPS........RAMS WORKED OUT.....NUTTER FCS/FBS QB....MAYBEAH WENTZ/GOFF.....COOD CARRY DIS GUYS PLAYBOOK......:p......BRAWK!

http://theramswire.usatoday.com/2016/04/17/report-rams-worked-out-a-qb-saturday-but-it-wasnt-wentz-or-goff/

[JSUSoutherner]

The Rams don't play the "Greatest Show on Turf" style anymore like Goff did at Cal. He's a better fit for Chip Kelly style offense that was being run in Philly.

Wentz is clearly the better fit to their offense because the Rams' scheme is very similar to the Bison across the board...power running, strong defense, and passing when available or necessary.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Oddly enough, I was looking at some mock draft projections and one I looked at had Goff ending up with Chip Kelley in SanFran.

[BisonTru]

.....HOLD ON BIZON PLOPS........RAMS WORKED OUT.....NUTTER FCS/FBS QB....MAYBEAH WENTZ/GOFF.....COOD CARRY DIS GUYS PLAYBOOK......:p......BRAWK!

http://theramswire.usatoday.com/2016/04/17/report-rams-worked-out-a-qb-saturday-but-it-wasnt-wentz-or-goff/

Now I'm convinced it's bigger taller Wentz. Who do you want holding up Adams playbook? xlolx

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ivRtwtEUBBU/TQDjVAu5ZjI/AAAAAAAACQo/HWcZek2_zIM/s1600/101027oregon_fast_ap.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Intriguing about VAdams, but to me he's well behind Goff and Wentz just on height alone. What's wrong with Boykin?

[AmsterBison]

Intriguing about VAdams, but to me he's well behind Goff and Wentz just on height alone. What's wrong with Boykin?

Aaron Rodgers isn't tall, but the odds of VA getting the #1 overall pick seem small indeed unless the entire NFL is in on the biggest troll job of the century. Boykin seems perfect for the 49ers... VA might be a good fit there too.

I'm getting a distinct ABC vibe from your posts (as in Anybody But Carson.) :)

[F'N Hawks]

Aaron Rodgers isn't tall, but the odds of VA getting the #1 overall pick seem small indeed unless the entire NFL is in on the biggest troll job of the century. Boykin seems perfect for the 49ers... VA might be a good fit there too.

I'm getting a distinct ABC vibe from your posts (as in Anybody But Carson.) :)

They aren't bringing VA in to see if he is #1 material. They are seeing if he is a "acquire a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick and draft him" type of material. Which means they take an OT or DL, for example, at #1.

Seems like they are just exploring all scenarios. Probably have brought in a bunch of QB's if that is their thinking.

[344Johnson]

They aren't bringing VA in to see if he is #1 material. They are seeing if he is a "acquire a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick and draft him" type of material. Which means they take an OT or DL, for example, at #1.

Seems like they are just exploring all scenarios. Probably have brought in a bunch of QB's if that is their thinking.

Or...they take the QB they want at #1, and take VA as a fun pick later.(see Kirk Cousins/RG3 circa 2012)

[F'N Hawks]

Or...they take the QB they want at #1, and take VA as a fun pick later.(see Kirk Cousins/RG3 circa 2012)

There you go. All scenarios on the table.

[Professor Chaos]

They aren't bringing VA in to see if he is #1 material. They are seeing if he is a "acquire a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick and draft him" type of material. Which means they take an OT or DL, for example, at #1.

Seems like they are just exploring all scenarios. Probably have brought in a bunch of QB's if that is their thinking.
They're not taking anything but a QB at #1. Like 344Johnson said, they could be looking at taking multiple QBs in the same draft and if that's their plan taking a athlete like VA as their 2nd QB that they could develop as a special package "slash" type dude would make sense. They're not giving up what they did to get to #1 to get Tunsil, Ramsey, or Bosa. They're going for the home run, which they have to do at this point, and that'll be one of two guys; Wentz or Goff.

[clenz]

They're not taking anything but a QB at #1. Like 344Johnson said, they could be looking at taking multiple QBs in the same draft and if that's their plan taking a athlete like VA as their 2nd QB that they could develop as a special package "slash" type dude would make sense. They're not giving up what they did to get to #1 to get Tunsil, Ramsey, or Bosa. They're going for the home run, which they have to do at this point, and that'll be one of two guys; Wentz or Goff.
Tunsil has all the makings of an anchor of an OL for a decade plus. That position being set for a decade plus is well worth whatever was given up to get it.

They probably could have gotten him at 5 though...but Tennessee's pick likely would have been Tunsil, so if they wanted him they had to get Tennessee out of the way.

[Hambone]

Stop the presses - my sources are saying that the Rams will select Goff #1 and the NY Jets will trade into the number 2 slot and take Mr. Wentz.

I may have just made that up. xthumbsupx

As it relates to Carson, I think he has the potential to be a hell of a pro QB - but as with most QBs it would probably be better if he was in a position to be mentored for a year or two prior to becoming the man. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Stop the presses - my sources are saying that the Rams will select Goff #1 and the NY Jets will trade into the number 2 slot and take Mr. Wentz.

I may have just made that up. xthumbsupx

As it relates to Carson, I think he has the potential to be a hell of a pro QB - but as with most QBs it would probably be better if he was in a position to be mentored for a year or two prior to becoming the man. Will be interesting to see what happens.

1. The highlighted above is pretty much my position on Wentz, not "Anybody But Carson for the Rams". Wentz is clearly a better choice for the Rams than VAdams.
2. We'd better highlight Hambone's post above for future use, because I could definitely see that happening.

[Daytripper]

V. Adams won't get drafted. He will be picked up by someone as a free agent, though.

[Professor Chaos]

Tunsil has all the makings of an anchor of an OL for a decade plus. That position being set for a decade plus is well worth whatever was given up to get it.

They probably could have gotten him at 5 though...but Tennessee's pick likely would have been Tunsil, so if they wanted him they had to get Tennessee out of the way.
Possibly but having an anchor at LT isn't going to help much if you've got Case Keenum slinging it behind him. They could've gotten an anchor on the O-line at #15 as well if they would've wanted it, OL is usually a pretty safe pick. But you don't really see teams (and fans that buy tickets) fall in love with O-lineman during the pre-draft process like they do QBs. Couple that with the fact that this will be their way to make a splash in the new market in LA it all points to the pick being a glamor position pick not a "big ugly" pick.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Couple that with the fact that this will be their way to make a splash in the new market in LA it all points to the pick being a glamour position pick not a "big ugly" pick.

For this very reason, I think Wentz fans should really be hoping that Goff is the man in LA. I happen to think it's a horrible position for any rookie QB to jump into.

[344Johnson]

Possibly but having an anchor at LT isn't going to help much if you've got Case Keenum slinging it behind him. They could've gotten an anchor on the O-line at #15 as well if they would've wanted it, OL is usually a pretty safe pick. But you don't really see teams (and fans that buy tickets) fall in love with O-lineman during the pre-draft process like they do QBs. Couple that with the fact that this will be their way to make a splash in the new market in LA it all points to the pick being a glamor position pick not a "big ugly" pick.

I dont think they'd go O-Line but Tunsil, Stanley, and POSSIBLY Conklin or whatever his name would be gone by 15.

[clenz]

I dont think they'd go O-Line but Tunsil, Stanley, and POSSIBLY Conklin or whatever his name would be gone by 15.
This.

Wentz slinging at QB is no good if the people in front of him suck and can't give him time. There has only been a couple top 5 drafted QB that didn't have the talent to actually be a star. It's always them being behind a dog **** OL and in a bad situation where they don't have a chance to succeed.

Derek Carr is a prime example of that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The draft before Flacco, the Ravens drafted two guys: OL Ben Grubbs (an all-pro guard) and OL Marshall Yanda, who is still a bookend tackle for the Ravens.

Here's more of the interesting Flacco story:

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/throwback/201408/flying-high-baltimore-ravens-jamison-hensley-joe-flacco-steve-bisciotti


The Ravens, who were drafting No. 8 in 2008, knew they would have to jump six spots to No. 2 (and ahead of the Atlanta Falcons) to get Ryan. Baltimore called the St. Louis Rams, who had the second overall pick, and they wanted two first-round picks (2008 and 2009) along with the Ravens' picks in the second and third rounds.

Team officials convinced Bisciotti the smarter play was to trade back, acquire more picks, and take Flacco. The Ravens had Ryan rated as the No. 3 player in the entire draft and Flacco at No. 15. There wasn't much separation between the quarterbacks in the Ravens' opinion.

The team's scouts thought Flacco had a lower floor than Ryan, but he had the higher ceiling.

The Ravens dropped from a top-10 pick to near the bottom of the first round, which proved too far down to Bisciotti's liking. He started getting antsy that Flacco wouldn't drop to the Ravens. He didn't want to get stuck with a quarterback like Chad Henne or Brian Brohm, who weren't rated anywhere close to Flacco on the Ravens' board.

...

The Ravens, though, wanted to bring Flacco along slowly. The plan was to sit him for his entire rookie season. The hope was for Troy Smith to win the starting job.


But, by the third game of the preseason, Flacco went from third string to starter after Smith came down with a serious tonsil infection and Kyle Boller suffered a season-ending shoulder injury.


"I didn't want to sit," Flacco said. "If you're going to say I'm your guy, then you should play me. I don't see any benefit of sitting and watching."

Thought this was good, because it shows the gamesmanship involved with all this stuff. The Ravens wanted to keep the hype on Flacco to a minimum, which is why he fell in the 2008 draft. The Ravens played the "he played in FCS" card to their advantage - as other teams like the Jags (DE Derrick Harvey?) and the Lions (OL Gosder Cherilous?) gleefully letting Flacco slip to 18, where the Ravens grabbed him. The funny thing was, in that draft, there was a real chance Flacco might have fallen to the 2nd round.

The more I look at the 2016 draft, it seems similar to the 2008 draft in some ways. A highly-touted FBS (Goff/Ryan) and a highly-touted FCS (Flacco/Wentz) expected to be the first two QBs off the board. You hope that it plays out similarly: the flashy Rams trying to take the hometown boy from the FBS school, and some other team with more patience either trading up to get Wentz or having him fall to the right team.

You know what team might want to take a long look at trading up for Wentz at No. 2? The Cowboys. Wentz would have the luxury of learning behind Romo, who's not young. I also wouldn't be unhappy with my Saints trading up to get Wentz either. Brees is on the back 9 and I have zero faith in equally-old Luke McCown or Garrett Grayson leading the Saints to an NFC South title. Brees mentoring Wentz would be perfect.

[BisonFan02]

Wentz's best friend at LA will be some guy named Gurley. He'd be fine there. You don't trade up from 15 to 1 and not take a QB. If they wanted to go OL, they may not have gotten Tunsil, but there are many more they could have grabbed there at that spot.

[BisonTru]

This.

Wentz slinging at QB is no good if the people in front of him suck and can't give him time. There has only been a couple top 5 drafted QB that didn't have the talent to actually be a star. It's always them being behind a dog **** OL and in a bad situation where they don't have a chance to succeed.

Derek Carr is a prime example of that.

Did you mean David Carr?

A couple things.

1. No way in hell did LA trade up to one for a left tackle. I don't care if he's the highest graded LT you've ever scouted.

2. Vernon Adams is late round prospect, maybe. Could easily not get drafted. They are NOT taking a position player at 1 and trading up into the second for Adams.

3. No GM or coach is going to draft a quarterback by his looks. How well they do with this pick will make or break both of their careers in LA.

**I realize Clenz you weren't making all these points just addressing some of the ideas folks have brought up this morning.

[Twentysix]

How big would it be for the FCS if Wentz is the #1 pick and goes on to win a superbowl when his drafting position and FCS status is in recent memory, say year 3 or 4 of his career.

Could it have impact on future FCS players being taken higher in the draft? Or does it make no difference.

On the contrary, what if Wentz is taken #1 and is an epic bust. Does this hurt any future FCS player who is a legitimate top 10 pick?

[Bisonator]

I still think the Rams are going to take Wentz at #1. This Goff talk is just a ploy to keep their pub up.

[Bisonator]

How big would it be for the FCS if Wentz is the #1 pick and goes on to win a superbowl when his drafting position and FCS status is in recent memory, say year 3 or 4 of his career.

Could it have impact on future FCS players being taken higher in the draft? Or does it make no difference.

On the contrary, what if Wentz is taken #1 and is an epic bust. Does this hurt any future FCS player who is a legitimate top 10 pick?
Let's slow the hypothetical train down until he is at least drafted. xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How big would it be for the FCS if Wentz is the #1 pick and goes on to win a superbowl when his drafting position and FCS status is in recent memory, say year 3 or 4 of his career.

Could it have impact on future FCS players being taken higher in the draft? Or does it make no difference.

On the contrary, what if Wentz is taken #1 and is an epic bust. Does this hurt any future FCS player who is a legitimate top 10 pick?

Flacco is Exhibit A for this theory, as he won a Super Bowl within 3-4 years of his drafting. I think long-term it makes no difference. The FCS label will continue to be a bludgeon in an effort to devalue future high draft picks, and there will be lots of reasons for NFL teams to identify the great FCS players and draft them. I don't think Wentz' success or failure helps or hurts that.

[JSUSoutherner]

How big would it be for the FCS if Wentz is the #1 pick and goes on to win a superbowl when his drafting position and FCS status is in recent memory, say year 3 or 4 of his career.

Could it have impact on future FCS players being taken higher in the draft? Or does it make no difference.

On the contrary, what if Wentz is taken #1 and is an epic bust. Does this hurt any future FCS player who is a legitimate top 10 pick?
If he goes to LA he won't be a bust. There's no possible way. The Browns however....

I legitimately think the Rams will be in the playoffs next year. (Regardless of if they take Wentz or Goff)

[344Johnson]

If he goes to LA he won't be a bust. There's no possible way. The Browns however....

I legitimately think the Rams will be in the playoffs next year. (Regardless of if they take Wentz or Goff)

8-8! A great season for the Rams! Is my projection.

[OhioHen]

If he goes to LA he won't be a bust. There's no possible way. The Browns however....

I legitimately think the Rams will be in the playoffs next year. (Regardless of if they take Wentz or Goff)

I expect my 'Hawks to go 11-5 and not win the division (Cardinals 12-4). Doesn't leave much room for the Rams.

[BisonTru]

How big would it be for the FCS if Wentz is the #1 pick and goes on to win a superbowl when his drafting position and FCS status is in recent memory, say year 3 or 4 of his career.

Could it have impact on future FCS players being taken higher in the draft? Or does it make no difference.

On the contrary, what if Wentz is taken #1 and is an epic bust. Does this hurt any future FCS player who is a legitimate top 10 pick?

I don't think it moves the dial much for scouts, coaches, and GMs. However, for fans the success of FCS players puts them at ease with future FCS selections. I think Flacco and McNair's success helps fans get into the Wentz camp. If both those two had been flops I still think coaches, scouts, and GMs would still been very high on Wentz. However, there would be more fans writing him off as a bust just because of the FCS tag.

[clenz]

It's interesting to see NDSU fans (or anyone in general doing this) poo-pooing the fact Goff played against P12 teams every week and Wentz played in the FCS. Stating the level of competition doesn't matter, etc...


Yet, take those same fans and try to argue a player from Tennessee Tech getting an All American honor over an NDSU player (or an OVC team over an MVFC team for the playoffs) and watch the reaction. It will be some version of this

"THE OVC SUCKS! THE MVFC IS WAY BETTER! NO WAY HE DOES THAT AGAINST MVFC TEAMS! ALWAYS GO WITH THE GUY WHO PLAYED BETTER COMPETITION!"

Just interesting to point out.

[BisonFan02]

It's interesting to see NDSU fans (or anyone in general doing this) poo-pooing the fact Goff played against P12 teams every week and Wentz played in the FCS. Stating the level of competition doesn't matter, etc...


Yet, take those same fans and try to argue a player from Tennessee Tech getting an All American honor over an NDSU player (or an OVC team over an MVFC team for the playoffs) and watch the reaction. It will be some version of this

"THE OVC SUCKS! THE MVFC IS WAY BETTER! NO WAY HE DOES THAT AGAINST MVFC TEAMS! ALWAYS GO WITH THE GUY WHO PLAYED BETTER COMPETITION!"

Just interesting to point out.

Here's the list of Goff's career wins at the collegiate level:

Portland state
Northwestern
Sacramento state
Colorado
Washington state
Oregon state
Grambling
San Diego state
Texas
Washington
Washington state
Oregon state
Arizona state
Air Force

[clenz]

Here's the list of Goff's career wins at the collegiate level:

Portland state
Northwestern
Sacramento state
Colorado
Washington state
Oregon state
Grambling
San Diego state
Texas
Washington
Washington state
Oregon state
Arizona state
Air Force Significantly worse than this...clearly...

Iowa State
Montana
Weber State
Incarnate Word
North Dakota
South Dakota State
Northern Iowa
Jacksonville State
Western Illinois
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State
Youngstown State
Coastal Carolina
Sam Houston State
Illinois State

[344Johnson]

It's interesting to see NDSU fans (or anyone in general doing this) poo-pooing the fact Goff played against P12 teams every week and Wentz played in the FCS. Stating the level of competition doesn't matter, etc...


Yet, take those same fans and try to argue a player from Tennessee Tech getting an All American honor over an NDSU player (or an OVC team over an MVFC team for the playoffs) and watch the reaction. It will be some version of this

"THE OVC SUCKS! THE MVFC IS WAY BETTER! NO WAY HE DOES THAT AGAINST MVFC TEAMS! ALWAYS GO WITH THE GUY WHO PLAYED BETTER COMPETITION!"

Just interesting to point out.

That is an excellent point.


Here's the list of Goff's career wins at the collegiate level:

Portland state
Northwestern
Sacramento state
Colorado
Washington state
Oregon state
Grambling
San Diego state
Texas
Washington
Washington state
Oregon state
Arizona state
Air Force

Cal sucks.

[clenz]

Also interesting to pin all of Cal's issues on Goff...

That's like saying "Mark Ianotti doesn't deserve any post season awards or anything because here is the list of teams he beat Liberty, Missouri State, Youngstown State"

You do realize that is the most asinine judgement of a single player in a sport like football...right?

[Professor Chaos]

Dak Prescott put up better numbers than Wentz or Goff against the best conference in college football. Maybe he should be the #1 pick???

[BisonFan02]

Also interesting to pin all of Cal's issues on Goff...

That's like saying "Mark Ianotti doesn't deserve any post season awards or anything because here is the list of teams he beat Liberty, Missouri State, Youngstown State"

You do realize that is the most asinine judgement of a single player in a sport like football...right?

Scout the player, not the helmet. Comparing the "level of competition" argument when scouting a individual player versus taking into account "inflated" statistics for postseason award is asinine...

You want to give Goff credit for playing at the FBS level, yet his Cal Bears didn't exactly blow the doors off of the division...his fault or not. Not sure what that has to do with evaluating him as a player...

What means more....his stats under the "Bear Raid" system he played in or the "FBS participation" star you give him for existing in that level of football?

- - - Updated - - -


Dak Prescott put up better numbers than Wentz or Goff against the best conference in college football. Maybe he should be the #1 pick???

Clearly.... xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think most athletes in the NFL draft could all benefit from some time to develop into pros. How many of last year's first-round draftees were ready on Day 1 to be stars? Winston and Mariota were probably all middle-of-the-road QBs when you look at their body of work Year 1. Gurley was very good (though more inconsistent than people give him credit for), Amari Cooper was very good, Marcus Peters was very good. Winston and (more probably) Mariota have the potential to blossom into future superstars. But I wouldn't say that any of them were slam-dunk, once-in-a-generation guys (look at the 2011 and 2012 drafts for examples).

So much depends on situation. Jeff George might have been a much better QB had the Colts not traded up to pick him No. 1 overall. The Colts were a hot mess at the time and basically thrust him in way too early with a horrible offense and wrecked him. Same with Archie Manning, the hometown hero that was supposed to lead the Saints to their first-ever winning season.

- - - Updated - - -


Dak Prescott put up better numbers than Wentz or Goff against the best conference in college football. Maybe he should be the #1 pick???

He's the guy I would LOVE for the Saints to get. If Wentz isn't available, of course. :)

[clenz]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks Gurley was extremely up and down. Games he was good, he was real good (Arizona, Green Bay, Celeveland, San Fran, and Detroit). He ran for 703 of his 1,106 in those 5 games. That means the other 8 games he played he ran for 403 yards at an average of just 3.2 yards per carry

[JSUSoutherner]

I expect my 'Hawks to go 11-5 and not win the division (Cardinals 12-4). Doesn't leave much room for the Rams.
The Seahawks will be the deciding factor in the NFC West next season. But due to Seattle's linemen situation and the departure of Lynch, I'm giving the Ram's the benefit of the doubt because of Todd Gurley and they will have a decent QB for once.

Plus, they were undefeated against Russel Wilson and friends last season. If they do it again and don't drop games to teams like Chicago and SF they should be in pretty good shape.


Dak Prescott put up better numbers than Wentz or Goff against the best conference in college football. Maybe he should be the #1 pick???
He plays in the MVFC?? :D

[Professor Chaos]

He plays in the MVFC?? :D
He might've been good enough to be 3rd string at Missouri St last year..... maybe.....

[Bisonator]

It's interesting to see NDSU fans (or anyone in general doing this) poo-pooing the fact Goff played against P12 teams every week and Wentz played in the FCS. Stating the level of competition doesn't matter, etc...


Yet, take those same fans and try to argue a player from Tennessee Tech getting an All American honor over an NDSU player (or an OVC team over an MVFC team for the playoffs) and watch the reaction. It will be some version of this

"THE OVC SUCKS! THE MVFC IS WAY BETTER! NO WAY HE DOES THAT AGAINST MVFC TEAMS! ALWAYS GO WITH THE GUY WHO PLAYED BETTER COMPETITION!"

Just interesting to point out.

Yes, clearly only NDSU fans do this....xrolleyesx

[clenz]

Yes, clearly only NDSU fans do this....xrolleyesx

It's extremely prevalent in this thread and going back to of the OVC deserved playoff bids

[Thumper 76]

Yes, clearly only NDSU fans do this....xrolleyesx

You guys are the shining example of how to excel at it, however.

[dgtw]

If he is #1 overall and is a complete bust ( and it can happen no matter where he goes), I think the next time an FCS QB is in the mix for the top pick, people will say "But Wentz....".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BisonFan02]

You guys are the shining example of how to excel at it, however.

We drink your tears and piss excellence.... :D NDSU IS the Alpha. xthumbsupx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Wentz's best friend at LA will be some guy named Gurley. He'd be fine there. You don't trade up from 15 to 1 and not take a QB. If they wanted to go OL, they may not have gotten Tunsil, but there are many more they could have grabbed there at that spot.


This here.

Rams have a running game and a good defense. Nice combination for a new QB coming in.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

You guys are the shining example of how to excel at it, however.


This year's 9th loss in a row to the Bison will be hard on Rabbit fans.....xnodx

[Thumper 76]

We drink your tears and piss excellence.... :D NDSU IS the Alpha. xthumbsupx

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/22b8064bed688fe6ed8c8d11eb88b11f.jpg

[JSUSoutherner]

It's extremely prevalent in this thread and going back to of the OVC deserved playoff bids
We deserved a playoff bid? Was it because of our southern speed?

[clenz]

We deserved a playoff bid? Was it because of our southern speed?

To be fair to Bison fans here, the OVC clearly didn't deserve that extra bid

[AmsterBison]

To be fair to Bison fans here, the OVC clearly didn't deserve that extra bid

Well, a) it wasn't just Bison fans and b) it would have been odd to have the OVC with the #1 seed and no others. FWIW, I still think the OVC is underrated and the Southland even more so.

My argument about the "level of competition" is that QBs aren't pitchers. You could argue a D2 pitcher isn't facing the quality of batters as a DI pitcher, but football is a team sport and both the DBs and WRs involved in the play are going to be better too (theoretically.) People make it sound like the FBS DBs are miles ahead of FBS WRs... and that's not the case, particularly in these offensive-driven conferences where the offenses are better than the defenses.

[clenz]

Well, a) it wasn't just Bison fans and b) it would have been odd to have the OVC with the #1 seed and no others. FWIW, I still think the OVC is underrated and the Southland even more so.

My argument about the "level of competition" is that QBs aren't pitchers. You could argue a D2 pitcher isn't facing the quality of batters as a DI pitcher, but football is a team sport and both the DBs and WRs involved in the play are going to be better too (theoretically.) People make it sound like the FBS DBs are miles ahead of FBS WRs... and that's not the case, particularly in these offensive-driven conferences where the offenses are better than the defenses.
If that's the case why are people poo-pooing Kyle Williams for playing at a D2?

He had equal caliber WR and DBs playing against each other and completed over 66% of his passes last year. Threw for a 6:1 TD:INT and 345 yards per game

[Bisonator]

If that's the case why are people poo-pooing Kyle Williams for playing at a D2?

He had equal caliber WR and DBs playing against each other and completed over 66% of his passes last year. Threw for a 6:1 TD:INT and 345 yards per game
Who? Maybe get his name right if you're going to stick up for him. xlolx

[superman7515]

Name a quarterback that came from an air raid system who succeeded in the NFL?

If you're talking about the true Air Raid Offense that was developed in the early 90's, there have only been six schools to run it at any level of college football, so you're talking a ridiculously small sample size in comparison. If you're talking about the misnomer of any college that mixes the Run and Shoot with the West Coast offense, then there will be dozens of examples like Steve Young, Phillip Rivers, Neil Lomax, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, etc.

[AmsterBison]

If that's the case why are people poo-pooing Kyle Williams for playing at a D2?

He had equal caliber WR and DBs playing against each other and completed over 66% of his passes last year. Threw for a 6:1 TD:INT and 345 yards per game

I think you meant Kyle Washington. And, no, I can't speak to that because I'm not one who made that argument. Plus I'm sure Football Game Plan had him rated several spots ahead of Carson Wentz so he's got that going for him.

Lone Star conference had negligible defenses back when NDSU was in D2... maybe that's still the same. And I bet he ran the spread.

[BisonFan02]

Well, a) it wasn't just Bison fans and b) it would have been odd to have the OVC with the #1 seed and no others. FWIW, I still think the OVC is underrated and the Southland even more so.

My argument about the "level of competition" is that QBs aren't pitchers. You could argue a D2 pitcher isn't facing the quality of batters as a DI pitcher, but football is a team sport and both the DBs and WRs involved in the play are going to be better too (theoretically.) People make it sound like the FBS DBs are miles ahead of FBS WRs... and that's not the case, particularly in these offensive-driven conferences where the offenses are better than the defenses.

clenz......Bison Fan/MVFC elitist. xlolx


SIU had the offense to beat anyone up and down the field until they cried for mercy. They just had no defense. Most junior high teams could move the ball on them.

Think of SIU last year like EWU most years. Difference being rather than getting UC Davis, Weber State, Idaho State, Cal Poly, NAU, UND in conference play they got NDSU, ISUr, UNI and SDSU who were all top 10 caliber defenses and we're all top 10-13 quality teams.

[Professor Chaos]

Ugh.... those UNI fans and their... words. :D

[clenz]

clenz......Bison Fan/MVFC elitist. xlolx
It's factually correct those defenses aren't nearly as good as the MVFC defenses.

Just as it'd be factually correct to say that pinning the lack of quality wins for Cal on Goff is dumb. Just as it's factually correct to say that Goff faced more NFL talent in a normal P12 game than he Wentz face in 4 or 7 FCS games combined...

There's every chance the P12 could see 15-20 defensive kids drafted in this draft alone, based on draft ratings right now.

Outside of the UNI secondary (which might just be Hall getting drafted...maybe Dorleant...but 3 guys in the UNI secondary) how many NFL guys did Wentz have to face

[BisonFan02]

It's factually correct those defenses aren't nearly as good as the MVFC defenses.

Just as it'd be factually correct to say that pinning the lack of quality wins for Cal on Goff is dumb. Just as it's factually correct to say that Goff faced more NFL talent in a normal P12 game than he Wentz face in 4 or 7 FCS games combined...

There's every chance the P12 could see 15-20 defensive kids drafted in this draft alone, based on draft ratings right now.

Outside of the UNI secondary (which might just be Hall getting drafted...maybe Dorleant...but 3 guys in the UNI secondary) how many NFL guys did Wentz have to face

Marcus Williams and CJ Smith on a daily basis....along with the rest of the Bison defense (guys like Emanuel and co...) xlolx. The rest of the teams in the Valley are a day off in comparison. :D xthumbsupx

[clenz]

Marcus Williams and CJ Smith on a daily basis....
So he's up to 5 total NFL guys in 5 years.

Williams was gone after 2 years of Wentz on campus and I doubt Wentz went against both of them every day for the simple reason that either your 1s run agains 1s or your 1s run against scout team



I just want to be sure we are clear - NDSU fans can no longer argue that an OVC, Ivy, Patriot, etc... team didn't play anyone when it comes to the top 25. After all, they are all playing D1 teams at the same level. Competition level across the board doesn't truly matter. Same goes for All American teams. MEAC, OVC, SWAC, NEC, Patriot, Pioneer, Big South, etc... guys that put up big numbers are just as impressive as those NDSU guys that do it against MVFC opponents.

[BisonFan02]

So he's up to 5 total NFL guys in 5 years.

Williams was gone after 2 years of Wentz on campus and I doubt Wentz went against both of them every day for the simple reason that either your 1s run agains 1s or your 1s run against scout team



I just want to be sure we are clear - NDSU fans can no longer argue that an OVC, Ivy, Patriot, etc... team didn't play anyone when it comes to the top 25. After all, they are all playing D1 teams at the same level. Competition level across the board doesn't truly matter. Same goes for All American teams. MEAC, OVC, SWAC, NEC, Patriot, Pioneer, Big South, etc... guys that put up big numbers are just as impressive as those NDSU guys that do it against MVFC opponents.

It would have been 3 years for Williams and I believe either 4 or 5 years for CJ Smith (don't remember if he redshirted). Wentz famously was the #1 QB the 2011 Bison #1s faced while on the scout team. I'm not going to start counting the rest of the NFL talent he faced. Guys like Emanuel and TBD guys like Deluca, Menard, and Tanguay.

The rest was TL;DR :D

[clenz]

It would have been 3 years for Williams and I believe either 4 or 5 years for CJ Smith (don't remember if he redshirted). Wentz famously was the #1 QB the 2011 Bison #1s faced while on the scout team. I'm not going to start counting the rest of the NFL talent he faced. Guys like Emanuel and TBD guys like Deluca, Menard, and Tanguay.

The rest was TL;DR :D
I've been told that it doesn't matter how good the players he faced was though, because his WRs were also FCS level wide recievers...it's only fair to also use that against Wentz, right?


Listen, you know I think he's a pretty good QB. I think he could be very good in the NFL in the right situation. HOWEVER, the spinning for pro-Wentz is fun to watch given that NDSU (and MVFC fans in other situations) usually pull that exact same **** against OVC, MEAC, NEC, Patriot, etc... when it comes to "He doesn't play against the same type of talent level every week".

It's just fun to see the circular logic and just sit by my computer and help you guys steer into the spin at full speed

[BisonTru]

If you're talking about the true Air Raid Offense that was developed in the early 90's, there have only been six schools to run it at any level of college football, so you're talking a ridiculously small sample size in comparison. If you're talking about the misnomer of any college that mixes the Run and Shoot with the West Coast offense, then there will be dozens of examples like Steve Young, Phillip Rivers, Neil Lomax, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, etc.

Geno Smith
Tim Couch
Johnny Manziel
Brandon Weedon
Kevin Kolb
Nick Foles
John Beck
Josh Heupel

I'm sure I'm missing some... anyway... your turn.

[iowastatebison]

So he's up to 5 total NFL guys in 5 years.



I just want to be sure we are clear - NDSU fans can no longer argue that an OVC, Ivy, Patriot, etc... team didn't play anyone when it comes to the top 25. After all, they are all playing D1 teams at the same level. Competition level across the board doesn't truly matter.


Clenz, I am pretty sure you are just playing devil's advocate here and don't actually believe that schedule strength doesn't matter when ranking the top 25, I think you are just using as a point to say that you have to take level of competition into account when evaluating Wentz.

However, let's assume that someone doesn't think that a player should be judged on who he plays. I don't think you can extrapolate that to the team level. who should be on All-american teams yes just look at the given stats, but how good the team is, no.

[344Johnson]

Geno Smith
Tim Couch
Johnny Manziel
Brandon Weedon
Kevin Kolb
Nick Foles
John Beck
Josh Heupel

I'm sure I'm missing some... anyway... your turn.

Are these true air raids? I do not believe so. Tim Couch may have been. Poor guy never had a chance...expansion qb...and a browns qb.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Geno Smith
Tim Couch
Johnny Manziel
Brandon Weedon
Kevin Kolb
Nick Foles
John Beck
Josh Heupel

I'm sure I'm missing some... anyway... your turn.

Tim Couch, another intriguing talent done in by a porous offensive line and a bad front office.

Hard to lump Geno Smith, Kolb and Foles in there. All of them were second-round picks and rolls of the dice.

Weeden and Manziel were both taken in the mid-20s in the 1st round by the Browns. Manziel shot himself through substance abuse - hard to put that at the feet of his college offense - while Weeden was always seen as a pretty dodgy pick I think by most draftniks.

Bottom line, only Couch would be the only "bust" pick of the ones you mentioned, franchise-level busts, and even then, Couch did lead the Browns to a playoff game (which everyone forgets). So your list doesn't really demonstrate much.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Interesting read......https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/

[BisonTru]

Are these true air raids? I do not believe so. Tim Couch may have been. Poor guy never had a chance...expansion qb...and a browns qb.

Thanks for the evidence to the contrary. You always add so much insight to the conversation.


Tim Couch, another intriguing talent done in by a porous offensive line and a bad front office.

Hard to lump Geno Smith, Kolb and Foles in there. All of them were second-round picks and rolls of the dice.

Weeden and Manziel were both taken in the mid-20s in the 1st round by the Browns. Manziel shot himself through substance abuse - hard to put that at the feet of his college offense - while Weeden was always seen as a pretty dodgy pick I think by most draftniks.

Bottom line, only Couch would be the only "bust" pick of the ones you mentioned, franchise-level busts, and even then, Couch did lead the Browns to a playoff game (which everyone forgets). So your list doesn't really demonstrate much.

Eh... bust is somewhat of an opinion. I think everybody outside of the last two that I listed has underwhelmed vs. expectations. I'm not saying Goff is a bust. To lump him in a group with everyone who ran an air raid system isn't fair. It's the equivalent of saying Wentz will be successful because every other FCS/DI-AA first round pick has. However, it does make you pause. Again, I like Goff. I've studied this QB class very close. He's got a quick delivery, quick feet, very smart guy. I think he can become a perennial starter. However, with what I know about Wentz and the system he ran, I'm more comfortable saying that last sentence about Wentz than I am about Goff.

[clenz]

Tim Couch, another intriguing talent done in by a porous offensive line and a bad front office.

Hard to lump Geno Smith, Kolb and Foles in there. All of them were second-round picks and rolls of the dice.

Weeden and Manziel were both taken in the mid-20s in the 1st round by the Browns. Manziel shot himself through substance abuse - hard to put that at the feet of his college offense - while Weeden was always seen as a pretty dodgy pick I think by most draftniks.

Bottom line, only Couch would be the only "bust" pick of the ones you mentioned, franchise-level busts, and even then, Couch did lead the Browns to a playoff game (which everyone forgets). So your list doesn't really demonstrate much.
The fun thing about that list is nearly every single one can easily be pointed to what they were forced into as a situation and off the field issues.

Geno - The Jets under Rex Ryan and Jets in general...that's simply all that needs to be said. Both found ways to ruin Sanchez's career, and Sanchez ran the most pro-style offense in all of college football to perfection at USC.

Tim Couch - Browns...literally nothing else needs to be said.

Johnny Manziel - Browns...literally nothing else needs to be said.....oh and all the drugs and booze and other issues

Brandon Weeden - Browns...literally nothing else needs to be said. Outside of Cleveland he's completeing something like 65% of his passes. Numbers aren't fantastic but look at the situations he's been thrown into - Dallas and Houston. Yeah. He also came into the league at 28 years old.

Kolb was drafted as a second round back up in Philly, which has worked wonders for QBs since McNabb *massive eye roll*. Though he did completed 60% of his career passes for the pre-being good Cards and ****ty Eagles.

Nick Foles dominated when he was put in a situation to succeed...then Philly ****ed him over with how they handled pretty much everything - see Kolb part deux in Philly.

Beck was drafted to Miami in the height of their ****tyness. They were 1-15 his first year and only once were they over .500. He, like Weeden, was a full recruiting cycle older than the rest of the guys in that draft class. He completed 60% of his career passes but was forced to be on really ****ty teams and ****ty coaching staffs.

Heupul was a 6th round pick...really stretching for that one. He also had some pretty serious shoulder issues that prevented him from ever having a chance to get a career started.


What do all of those have in common once they got to the pros? They were all put into really ****ty situations by ****ty franchises.

[clenz]

Thanks for the evidence to the contrary. You always add so much insight to the conversation.



Eh... bust is somewhat of an opinion. I think everybody outside of the last two that I listed has underwhelmed vs. expectations. I'm not saying Goff is a bust. To lump him in a group with everyone who ran an air raid system isn't fair. It's the equivalent of saying Wentz will be successful because every other FCS/DI-AA first round pick has. However, it does make you pause. Again, I like Goff. I've studied this QB class very close. He's got a quick delivery, quick feet, very smart guy. I think he can become a perennial starter. However, with what I know about Wentz and the system he ran, I'm more comfortable saying that last sentence about Wentz than I am about Goff.
Goff with the Rams succeeds
Goff with the Browns busts out

Wentz with the Rams succeeds
Wentz with the Browns busts out

Pretty easy to figure that out. Turns out it has as much/more to do with where they play than who they are.

Sure, many QBs are very good. The reality is that outside of a very few select few most QBs are pretty damn close in almost every way. It's about where they are that will dictate how they do.

****, look at Matt Cassill.

[mvemjsunpx]

Goff with the Rams succeeds
Goff with the Browns busts out

Wentz with the Rams succeeds
Wentz with the Browns busts out

Pretty easy to figure that out. Turns out it has as much/more to do with where they play than who they are.

Sure, many QBs are very good. The reality is that outside of a very few select few most QBs are pretty damn close in almost every way. It's about where they are that will dictate how they do.

****, look at Matt Cassill.


What makes you think they'll even succeed with the Rams? They haven't created a good one since Bulger.

[BisonFan02]

Browns aside (because that is DEEP...), being ****ty at the QB position tends to lead to overall ****ty team situations. Weird.

[clenz]

What makes you think they'll even succeed with the Rams? They haven't created a good one since Bulger.
Better chance than Cleveland.

I'm on record in saying I don't think either is a top 5 pick. The fact it's not an overly deep draft class is what's leading to this.

[BisonFan02]

Better chance than Cleveland.

I'm on record in saying I don't think either is a top 5 pick. The fact it's not an overly deep draft class is what's leading to this.

They're the top QBs and the teams towards the top have a QB need. You wait until the second round and the QB quality plummets. Supply/Demand....

[clenz]

Browns aside (because that is DEEP...), being ****ty at the QB position tends to lead to overall ****ty team situations. Weird.
That's on the team, putting QBs in ****ty spots. Not really the QBs.

The Raiders, Jets, Eagles, Dolphins (even though Tannehill isn't too bad), Broncos other than Elway and Manning, 49ers post Young, Texans, etc... are all bad places for QBs.

Teams will ruin a QB faster than the QB can - sans Johnny Drugball.

Cassill went 11-5 for the Patriots and has been meh since.
Brocket Launcher looked good in Denver, we'll see what happens in Houston.
Palmer's career was through to be over because of how things went in Oakland. Look what happened since he got to a better place.

[BisonTru]

Are these true air raids? I do not believe so. Tim Couch may have been. Poor guy never had a chance...expansion qb...and a browns qb.


Goff with the Rams succeeds
Goff with the Browns busts out

Wentz with the Rams succeeds
Wentz with the Browns busts out

Pretty easy to figure that out. Turns out it has as much/more to do with where they play than who they are.

Sure, many QBs are very good. The reality is that outside of a very few select few most QBs are pretty damn close in almost every way. It's about where they are that will dictate how they do.

****, look at Matt Cassill.

I get where you land has a big factor in your success, but it isn't the end all be all. Manziel, JaMarcus Russell, and Leaf are bust no matter where they are drafted. Manning, Brees, Luck are successful no matter where they go.

Onto the Browns and Rams, the Rams are the better situation. However, it doesn't guarantee success. Whoever goes there could have a hard time beating out Foles and Keenum (which is pretty sad), but not unthinkable. Also, Cleveland if they commit to Hue and DePosta could be a great re-build especially with one of these QBs leading the charge. Where theses quarterbacks go from here is dependent on a lot of factors, their coaches, their GMs, but most importantly themselves.

What I like a lot about both. Is they both seem driven. That's my number one factor in evaluating QBs, and they both seem to have a lot more of it than anyone in this class.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Are we so sure the Rams are such a great crucible for QBs? Aside from Kurt Warner, who was literally the last man standing in Rams training camp before they'd give him a legitimate shot, the Rams' starting QBs have been a dumpster fire for decades, dating to before they moved originally from LA. When Jim Everett is a first ballot QB for the Rams QB Hall-Of-Fame, you know you've never exactly been the '94 Packers.

[clenz]

I get where you land has a big factor in your success, but it isn't the end all be all. Manziel, JaMarcus Russell, and Leaf are bust no matter where they are drafted. Manning, Brees, Luck are successful no matter where they go.

Onto the Browns and Rams, the Rams are the better situation. However, it doesn't guarantee success. Whoever goes there could have a hard time beating out Foles and Keenum (which is pretty sad), but not unthinkable. Also, Cleveland if they commit to Hue and DePosta could be a great re-build especially with one of these QBs leading the charge. Where theses quarterbacks go from here is dependent on a lot of factors, their coaches, their GMs, but most importantly themselves.

What I like a lot about both. Is they both seem driven. That's my number one factor in evaluating QBs, and they both seem to have a lot more of it than anyone in this class.
Right but Manziel, Russell, Leaf, etc... they didn't fail because of their college offense.

They failed because they were losers.

[BisonTru]

Are these true air raids? I do not believe so. Tim Couch may have been. Poor guy never had a chance...expansion qb...and a browns qb.


That's on the team, putting QBs in ****ty spots. Not really the QBs.

The Raiders, Jets, Eagles, Dolphins (even though Tannehill isn't too bad), Broncos other than Elway and Manning, 49ers post Young, Texans, etc... are all bad places for QBs.

Teams will ruin a QB faster than the QB can - sans Johnny Drugball.

Cassill went 11-5 for the Patriots and has been meh since.
Brocket Launcher looked good in Denver, we'll see what happens in Houston.,
Palmer's career was through to be over because of how things went in Oakland. Look what happened since he got to a better place.

Cmon Clenz. Palmer is like 38. I get he didn't make his whole career in Cincinnati, but he's a franchise QB or at least has been one for multiple teams. And Derek Carr is going to be good in Oakland. I've even got BF02 slightly leaning towards that opinion, I think, maybe. xcoolx To think that how successful a quarterback becomes is solely on the team is in... well... the Czar area of thought. Some of the credit of every quarterback is on themselves or at least on the ceiling of their abilities.

And Manziel, fails at any franchise he goes to. The kid already had an uphill battle with his style of play and then add in his lack of work ethic and substance abuse issues. That one is on him not Cleveland.

[BisonFan02]

Cmon Clenz. Palmer is like 38. I get he didn't make his whole career in Cincinnati, but he's a franchise QB or at least has been one for multiple teams. And Derek Carr is going to be good in Oakland. I've even got BF02 slightly leaning towards that opinion, I think, maybe. xcoolx To think that how successful a quarterback becomes is solely on the team is in... well... the Czar area of thought. Some of the credit of every quarterback is on themselves or at least on the ceiling of their abilities.

And Manziel, fails at any franchise he goes to. The kid already had an uphill battle with his style of play and then add in his lack of work ethic and substance abuse issues. That one is on him not Cleveland.

Nope. xlolx

[BisonTru]

Nope. xlolx

You will. :D

[BisonFan02]

You will. :D

Think Cleveland would trade the 2nd pick for him (or LA the 1st)? His rookie contract is coming up and he will end up overpaid. xthumbsupx

[BisonTru]

Think Cleveland would trade the 2nd pick for him (or LA the 1st)? His rookie contract is coming up and he will end up overpaid. xthumbsupx

Oakland should have traded up into the first round and they would have the fifth year option like the Vikings. Of course, the GD Vikings picked the wrong damn quarterback.

[BisonFan02]

Oakland should have traded up into the first round and they would have the fifth year option like the Vikings. Of course, the GD Vikings picked the wrong damn quarterback.

Meh....its hard to say. I was a little surprised Carr was there in the second round, but whatever works. Bridgewater dropped far because of a stupid pro day into the Vikings lap. That was one of the few recent drafts for my Raiders that I actually "liked". I remember being very high on Mack and was pleased that they overlooked that he played at Buffalo.

[BisonTru]

Meh....its hard to say. I was a little surprised Carr was there in the second round, but whatever works. Bridgewater dropped far because of a stupid pro day into the Vikings lap. That was one of the few recent drafts for my Raiders that I actually "liked". I remember being very high on Mack and was pleased that they overlooked that he played at Buffalo.

Eh... I don't think NFL scouts were as high on Bridgewater as media scouts were. The jury is still out for me on Bridgewater. Carr, well you know my opinion there. I was so damn excited when the Vikings traded up and then.... ****.

That draft for Oakland. You get a franchise QB (JMHO, but I'm right) and one of the best edge guys in the league. Wow.

[clenz]

Cmon Clenz. Palmer is like 38. I get he didn't make his whole career in Cincinnati, but he's a franchise QB or at least has been one for multiple teams. And Derek Carr is going to be good in Oakland. I've even got BF02 slightly leaning towards that opinion, I think, maybe. xcoolx To think that how successful a quarterback becomes is solely on the team is in... well... the Czar area of thought. Some of the credit of every quarterback is on themselves or at least on the ceiling of their abilities.

And Manziel, fails at any franchise he goes to. The kid already had an uphill battle with his style of play and then add in his lack of work ethic and substance abuse issues. That one is on him not Cleveland.
Palmer is a perfect example of a franchise hurting a QB's career. You missed my point. He was nearly run out of the league after Oakland. He was dead weight at that point. He was old, people assumed that what they saw in Oakland was who he was as a QB. Arizona offered him a perfect situation and he ran with it and completely revived what people thought was a dead career.

Matt Cassill had never played a college snap, never played in the NFL, went 11-5 with the Patriots and rolled that into about a decade of floating around as a 50/50 starter.

The Vikings were built around AP and managed to have Christian Ponder "lead them" to the playoffs

Sanchez gets the Jets to three straight AFC title games and then Rex Ryan happens.

David Carr had all the talent in the world but was put in a no win spot. You could cross bread Manning, Brady, Big Ben, Bradshaw, Tarkington, Young, Aikman and Montana and that thing would have failed in Houston.

RG3's first year he had a staff build around his strengths and he was pretty good. Then that stopped and he stopped being good.

It's pretty crazy how the franchise/system can completely alter a QB's career.

[RootinFerDukes]

"Hold the mother f'in phone. You mean to tell me that a lowly D2 QB just got picked #1 overall?! I've never even heard of that school!" -all of Twitter

[BisonFan02]

"Hold the mother f'in phone. You mean to tell me that a lowly D2 QB just got picked #1 overall?! I've never even heard of that school!" -all of Twitter

and they're idiots. So? xlolx

[RootinFerDukes]

and they're idiots. So? xlolx

There's no way he could've been good. Otherwise he would've gone to Bama.

[BisonFan02]

There's no way he could've been good. Otherwise he would've gone to Bama.

Good QBs don't go to Bama... xthumbsupx

[RootinFerDukes]

Seriously though, I'm rooting for Carson Wentz to go as high as possible not just because he's good, but I want to enjoy the public hissy fit when the public is forced to acknowledge the Fcs.

[BisonFan02]

Seriously though, I'm rooting for Carson Wentz to go as high as possible not just because he's good, but I want to enjoy the public hissy fit when the public is forced to acknowledge the Fcs.

They won't regardless....but one can hope. xlolx

[clenz]

Oakland should have traded up into the first round and they would have the fifth year option like the Vikings. Of course, the GD Vikings picked the wrong damn quarterback.
Can't compare the situations.

I hear all the time "Look at Bortles or Carr's numbers".

Here's the thing about that:
Neither has a run game behind them. Teddy does.

Both have top 10-15 WRs on their roster.
The Vikings have....Diggs? He could be good. Then they have............Theilen? I love Theilen, but....yeah.

The Vikings were division champs last year.
The Raiders finished 7 games under .500 and the Jags 4 games.

Teddy played with the lead, a lot.
Bortles and Carr didn't.

A perfect example of how that's a "meh" comparison is the game between Minnesota and Oakland last year

Teddy threw for 140
Carr threw for 302

Teddy had a QBR/Rating of 74.2/96.8
Carr had a QBR/Rating of 40.6/83.7

Of those 302 yards for Carr 78 came on the Raiders final drive which ended with him throwing 3 straight in-completions in to goal situations to end it. They were down 30-14 at that time
The drive before, with a chance to get it to a one score game (was 23-14) Carr threw a pick in the endzone. AP took the next play 80 yards to the house. Hard for Teddy to get passing yards when AP is going for 200+.


Bortles and Carr got so many of their yards in the 4th quarter because they were down and had to throw every down to try to get back into it.

[BisonFan02]

Can't compare the situations.

I hear all the time "Look at Bortles or Carr's numbers".

Here's the thing about that:
Neither has a run game behind them. Teddy does.

Both have top 10-15 WRs on their roster.
The Vikings have....Diggs? He could be good. Then they have............Theilen? I love Theilen, but....yeah.

The Vikings were division champs last year.
The Raiders finished 7 games under .500 and the Jags 4 games.

Teddy played with the lead, a lot.
Bortles and Carr didn't.

A perfect example of how that's a "meh" comparison is the game between Minnesota and Oakland last year

Teddy threw for 140
Carr threw for 302

Teddy had a QBR/Rating of 74.2/96.8
Carr had a QBR/Rating of 40.6/83.7

Of those 302 yards for Carr 78 came on the Raiders final drive which ended with him throwing 3 straight in-completions in to goal situations to end it. They were down 30-14 at that time
The drive before, with a chance to get it to a one score game (was 23-14) Carr threw a pick in the endzone. AP took the next play 80 yards to the house. Hard for Teddy to get passing yards when AP is going for 200+.


Bortles and Carr got so many of their yards in the 4th quarter because they were down and had to throw every down to try to get back into it.

Clearly, the Vikings are just a terrible situation for any QB to get drafted into. :D xrotatehx
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.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_G0TBMEGm0

[BisonTru]

Are these true air raids? I do not believe so. Tim Couch may have been. Poor guy never had a chance...expansion qb...and a browns qb.


Palmer is a perfect example of a franchise hurting a QB's career. You missed my point. He was nearly run out of the league after Oakland. He was dead weight at that point. He was old, people assumed that what they saw in Oakland was who he was as a QB. Arizona offered him a perfect situation and he ran with it and completely revived what people thought was a dead career.

Matt Cassill had never played a college snap, never played in the NFL, went 11-5 with the Patriots and rolled that into about a decade of floating around as a 50/50 starter.

The Vikings were built around AP and managed to have Christian Ponder "lead them" to the playoffs

Sanchez gets the Jets to three straight AFC title games and then Rex Ryan happens.

David Carr had all the talent in the world but was put in a no win spot. You could cross bread Manning, Brady, Big Ben, Bradshaw, Tarkington, Young, Aikman and Montana and that thing would have failed in Houston.

RG3's first year he had a staff build around his strengths and he was pretty good. Then that stopped and he stopped being good.

It's pretty crazy how the franchise/system can completely alter a QB's career.

Coaches don't ruin quarterbacks. Situations can, like not having an o line to protect them long enough to get through a full progression.

Take RG3. He's an effective dual threat QB, but he gets hurt. So you make him a pocket quarterback, but he's not good at it. As a coach you're stuck in the situation do I run more read option stuff and break his knees or make him do something he's not good at.

[clenz]

Coaches don't ruin quarterbacks. Situations can, like not having an o line to protect them long enough to get through a full progression.

Take RG3. He's an effective dual threat QB, but he gets hurt. So you make him a pocket quarterback, but he's not good at it. As a coach you're stuck in the situation do I run more read option stuff and break his knees or make him do something he's not good at.
Or you treat him exactly like Wilson in Seattle. Not too hard to figure out how to use a guys strengths if you aren't bull headed and married to one way of thinking.

[BisonTru]

Or you treat him exactly like Wilson in Seattle. Not too hard to figure out how to use a guys strengths if you aren't bull headed and married to one way of thinking.

He's not Russel Wilson. 1. He isn't nearly as good of a pocket passer. 2. He's not nearly as durable.

You have one option with RG3 make him a read option quarterback and get him injured, IMO. That's it. Unless Robert and I hope he proves me wrong, can learn to be a better pocket passer.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/your-team-s-qbs-stink--we-rank-the-desperation-to-draft-one--1-32-171757440.html


A team doesn’t trade up to No. 1 and pass on a quarterback. Fear not: They will grab one. But which one? Oh, hush, he’ll probably be amazing.

Seriously, though, if there’s ever a city where a precocious talent’s career has been snuffed out in about 15 minutes, it’s L.A. Can’t wait to see which youngster they draft and put in the unenviable situation of being a franchise savior in the country’s second-biggest market with only one difference-maker on offense beside him. Should make for fun TV on draft night, on “Hard Knocks” and onward.

So this.

[clenz]

He's not Russel Wilson. 1. He isn't nearly as good of a pocket passer. 2. He's not nearly as durable.

You have one option with RG3 make him a read option quarterback and get him injured, IMO. That's it. Unless Robert and I hope he proves me wrong, can learn to be a better pocket passer.
That's an interesting narrative that isn't actually correct.

Pocket passer be damned. If he likes to be moving to throw then so ****ing what. Run some boot action.

He's completed 63.9% of his career passes, including 68.7% in 2014.

He's a prime example of a coach not knowing what to do with a QB and how he can ruin a career, along with being part of a ****ty franchise.

2:1 career TD:INT
64% completion
6th 4th quarter game winning drives

Turns out not being durable is a cop out way for how his treatment was handled.

2012 this was his knee injury. Name me a single QB that would have bee durable enough for this...

Ready?

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/VM701N7HQ30Ma5lx_AcjkVPLEW0=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4016038/rg3hurt.0.gif


He was cleared by Dr. James Andrews, yes that James Andrews, to return to the game...according to HC Mike Shanahan



With the team down eight points and driving, he tried to keep playing after missing only one play. In a post-game presser, Mike Shanahan said Griffin was given the A-OK by team doctor James Andrews:



"(I said) 'Hey, Dr. Andrews, can Robert go back in?'


'Yeah, he can go back in.'


'Robert, go back in.'


"That was it," Shanahan said.


In January 2013, Andrews revealed that conversation never happened. RG3 never saw Andrews. Like any other football player he did what he could to keep playing. Turns out Shannahan didn't pull him to make him see a Andrews either. Rather he lied about it to save his ass. Threw Dr Andrews and RG3 under the bus. RG3 was clearly to play in the playoff game and Shanahan let him go out there on one leg, against the most physical defense in the league, on the worst field in the league. But yeah, all on RG3. Had he sat that game out because he didn't think he could go he'd have been crucified all over the media for being a pussy - remember Jay Cutler's knee injury from that playoff game from 2010? Yep, same knee injury.


After that the glorious Snyder-Shanahan feud that RG3 was caught in the middle of.

Long, but worth it, read regarding the RG3 situation on SBNation

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/9/1/9232961/robert-griffin-iii-washington-jay-gruden-dan-snyder-mike-shanahan-injury-concussion


Long story short, RG3 got a real ****ing up deal from Shanahan and the ESPN hype machine building him up and then going too far to make sure he was torn down.

[BisonTru]

That's an interesting narrative that isn't actually correct.

Pocket passer be damned. If he likes to be moving to throw then so ****ing what. Run some boot action.


I don't know if Mike played him when he shouldn't have. If he did, bad on him.

Bottomline, Shanahan utilized him as a dual threat quarterback and he got hurt. Gruden tried to make him more of pocket passer and it didn't work.

The age old question for NFL coaches is what do you do with dual threat quarterbacks. The more you run them the bigger at risk you are at injuring them. The more you don't run them the harder it becomes on them in the passing game. Carolina and Seattle have found a nice mix that utilizes their abilities, but keeps both healthy. However, both Newton and Wilson have proven to be more durable than RG3, and both are better pocket passers. IMO, and Shanahan agrees you need to utilize RG3 as a dual threat quarterback and just take the injury risk and live with it. Now, that can change if he becomes a better pocket passer and that will be on him and the ceiling of his talents.

[clenz]

Yeah. The guy that completes 68% of his passes isn't a good passer.

[BisonTru]

Yeah. The guy that completes 68% of his passes isn't a good passer.

Pocket passer. I get you're a stats guy. Go ahead and evaluate talent by stats. Vernon Adams should be drafted by the Rams if you strictly look at stats. I have a feeling VA's not going to be #1. Call it a gut feeling, but what do I know or Fisher or Snead or Shanahan or Gruden. Maybe we're all just bull headed. :D

[clenz]

Pocket passer. I get you're a stats guy. Go ahead and evaluate talent by stats. Vernon Adams should be drafted by the Rams if you strictly look at stats. I have a feeling VA's not going to be #1. Call it a gut feeling, but what do I know or Fisher or Snead or Shanahan or Gruden. Maybe we're all just bull headed. :D
Given the records of each of those coaches, you probably do.

Shanahan without Elway is ****.
Fisher without Warner, Bruce, and Faulk has been a horrid head coach
Gruden? If his name isn't Gruden isn't a HC.

[BisonTru]

Given the records of each of those coaches, you probably do.

Shanahan without Elway is ****.
Fisher without Warner, Bruce, and Faulk has been a horrid head coach
Gruden? If his name isn't Gruden isn't a HC.

Well Fisher never coached any of those guys. Kinda thought the UNI fans would remember who coached Warner. BTW, he went to a superbowl with an FCS quarterback.

[Thumper 76]

Yeah. The guy that completes 68% of his passes isn't a good passer.

Sure his stats are decent, but that doesn't tell you how they had to limit their offense when he was the qb. His best games were when they kept his attempts super low.

[clenz]

FWIW his 2014 games

29-37 78.4%
2-3 32 66.7%
18-28 64.3%
23-32 71.9%
11-19 57.9%
3-4 75%
18-27 66.7%
16-23 69.6%
27-41 65.9%

Games throwing at least 40 times
32-50 64%
30-49 61.2%
27-41 65.9%
26-40 65%


6 times he's thrown between 35-39 passes in a game. 4 of them have been at least 59% and 3 have been at least 65%

Seemed to do pretty well when throwing.

He has just 4 games in his career with a sub 50% completion
46.2%
47.1%
48.6%
48.7%

[BisonTru]

Alright Clenz since you're such a numbers guy. Why did RG3 get 7 million a year in free agency and Sam Bradford, Brock Osweiler, and Kirk Cousins get 18+ million a year? xeyebrowx Are 32 GMs wrong about Robert?

[Thumper 76]

FWIW his 2014 games

29-37 78.4%
2-3 32 66.7%
18-28 64.3%
23-32 71.9%
11-19 57.9%
3-4 75%
18-27 66.7%
16-23 69.6%
27-41 65.9%

Games throwing at least 40 times
32-50 64%
30-49 61.2%
27-41 65.9%
26-40 65%


6 times he's thrown between 35-39 passes in a game. 4 of them have been at least 59% and 3 have been at least 65%

Seemed to do pretty well when throwing.

He has just 4 games in his career with a sub 50% completion
46.2%
47.1%
48.6%
48.7%

Legit question here cause you're far better at finding stats, what % of those passes were past ten yards? Past 20? How does that compare to the rest of the league? Cause that completion percentage is wonderful and all, but he isn't considered to be in the same stratosphere as Aaron Rodgers, whose completion % is around 65%. So you can cherry pick that stat but there is something my eyes tell me when I watch the guy, and it that he's not a good qb.

[clenz]

Multi post string coming warning


Accuracy Percentage (QB)

Taking the commonly-used Completion Percentage a step or two further, we’ve accounted for a set of factors that help better define a quarterback’s performance on passes that were actually aimed at (and delivered to) a targeted receiver. We add back in dropped passes to give the QB credit for getting the ball to its destination and take away ‘attempts’ that were actually throwaways, spikes, or balls that were batted at the line and those that fluttered from his hand when hit as he threw. The result? Top Completion Percentages typically approach or climb slightly past 70%, while Accuracy Percentage leaders will be looking at numbers closer to 80%.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/da6b431e7e5903cbb54bc0673710e609.jpg

[clenz]

Deep Passing (QB)

Using our target location data, we’ve selected passing attempts that traveled 20 yards or more in the air. From that sample we offer a look at typical passing numbers as well as Attempt Percentage (number of deep passes relative to all attempts) and show the QB’s Accuracy Percentage on such throws. Whether you are looking to see who is going deep most often or who has been most successful at it, we’ve got the numbers here.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/d25a546b9619988fc3e24c18bed2bbee.jpg

[clenz]

Passing Under Pressure (QB)

A telling set of stats when considering a quarterback’s composure, we’ve assembled tables of data to show how often they find themselves under duress and how they operate in those situations. Who throws it away and who takes the sack? Whose pressured passes have been picked-off most frequently and whose have usually found an open receiver? Every pressured drop-back is counted here.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/f6e53538c715148a169cfd92d1a10d73.jpg

[clenz]

Play Action Passing (QB) *New in 2012

Looking for the impact of an offense’s running game on their passing game? A large portion of that shows in their use of play action passing. Stats here are split into ‘Play Action’ and ‘No Play Action’ so you can see who is using it most and what kind of results it’s bringing. Is your favorite QB more or less effective when using play action? And how does he compare to the rest of the league?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/5325194af6f3387533862bfbd94534b8.jpg

[POD Knows]

Passing Under Pressure (QB)

A telling set of stats when considering a quarterback’s composure, we’ve assembled tables of data to show how often they find themselves under duress and how they operate in those situations. Who throws it away and who takes the sack? Whose pressured passes have been picked-off most frequently and whose have usually found an open receiver? Every pressured drop-back is counted here.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/f6e53538c715148a169cfd92d1a10d73.jpg

RGIII should be first ballot HOF I guess. Actually, I am rooting for the guy to do well in Cleveland.

[clenz]

Yes those numbers are a few years old, and no I have no idea how RG3 would look as he is right now.

Point is, he is a **** of a lot better than the pervasive media driven narrative.

Why did those QBs get 20 and he didn't? Simply put - fear. No staff has taken the time to develop him. No coach has tried to properly use him. He's been built around , not built with. Look how much Newton was trashed his first few years, the Rivera came in and said "We build with him, not around him" and look what's happened.

They are scarred of the worst case scenario. They are scared of the PR to the fan base bringing him in.

Also, I've got a fun set of numbers with Cousins that show he isn't better at the deep ball, or passing in general, than RG3. It's just that the offense was allowed to be run in a way for Kirk to succeed.

I'm also not in the Awful White QB camp by any stretch. I don't think RG3 is a top flight QB. I think he is the perfect example of getting ticked over by a staff and organization.

[clenz]

The stuff on Cousins



By Cian Fahey

In a vacuum, it's impossible to argue that Robert Griffin III should not have been benched.

Griffin's play since he shredded his knee at the end of his rookie season has been disappointing. In his first year in the league, RGIII was a perfect fit in Mike and Kyle Shanahan's offense, an athletic runner outside and an intelligent, decisive passer from the pocket. During Griffin's second season, the coaching staff attempted to alter the offense slightly -- but largely under the same circumstances, Griffin was tentative with his footwork in the pocket and became hesitant overall.

The QB's play helped push his first coaching staff away from the franchise. The team hired Jay Gruden, and Griffin remained the starter. Another major injury hit him at the start of his first season with Gruden, which disrupted his development in the team's new scheme, but his play was so poor that it's unclear if Griffin would ever have been effective in that role.

Benching Griffin solely on his play made sense. Benching him for Kirk Cousins doesn't.

Cousins has become attractive to Washington largely because he's not Griffin. When evaluating Cousins' skill set and performance to this point in his career without considering the other factors of the decision, it wouldn't make any sense to start him.

Selected in the same draft as Griffin, Cousins has played three years in the NFL, starting nine games and playing in 14. Those 14 regular-season games have resulted in 407 pass attempts, with a 59 percent completion rate and 3,030 yards. What stands out most is that Cousins has thrown 19 interceptions to 18 touchdowns while also fumbling the ball six times.

Even though those numbers are bad and indicate he is turnover prone, Cousins' strongest selling point is often that he understands how to run the offense. But that doesn't mean he's much better at executing it than RGIII. In fact, he's arguably not better at all. Last year, during his only year in Gruden's offense, Cousins started five games and threw 204 passes. He completed 61.8 percent of his throws for 1,710 yards, throwing 10 touchdowns to nine interceptions. Although he had fewer interceptions than touchdowns, Cousins proved to be the worst tracked quarterback in the Interceptable Passes Project, which aims to separate blame for interceptions from quarterbacks and receivers while counting interceptable passes that defenders don't take advantage of (dropping the ball, misreading the flight of the ball or falling down before they could catch it).

It wasn't just that Cousins had the worst rate of interceptable passes -- he was a long way away from being even average. Griffin was close to average, throwing an interceptable pass once every 23.8 attempts, while Cousins threw one once every 11.3 attempts.

When you look at the kind of throws Cousins makes, this isn't surprising.


http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/6c4d393fed99b9d6145661502917a992.jpg

The above chart tracks Cousins' throws from last season. It doesn't include passes that were intentionally thrown away, spiked or tipped at the line of scrimmage. Each throw is represented by a red cross or a green tick. Red crosses are inaccurate passes, and green ticks are accurate passes. The chart does not consider whether a pass was caught or not, only if it was placed accurately. On Cousins' chart, there are 131 accurate throws and 67 inaccurate throws. He had an accuracy percentage of 66.2 percent, just 4.4 percent higher than his completion percentage. This gap suggests Cousins was heavily reliant on his wide receivers more than he was elevating him. For example, Ryan Tannehill had an 83.2 percent rating for last year and Blake Bortles completed 68.6 percent of his passes last season.

Accuracy was a major issue for Cousins. He threw some precise passes, including a couple of very impressive downfield throws against the Philadelphia Eagles, but an overwhelming majority of his passes were poorly placed and lacked the requisite velocity to reach his receivers at the right time. While Cousins' arm talent is clearly limited, he doesn't make decisions to account for that. He attempts passes that would make Matthew Stafford blush.



Much, much, more including video of things at http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/147343800/kirk-cousins-starter-redskins-robert-griffin

[BisonTru]

So what do you do with him Clenz? All the numbers you listed are when Shanahan was utilizing him as a read option dual threat quarterback. I think, not sure, he still has the athleticism, so do you do the same with those porcelain knees?

Edit: Oh, yay, Cian, the self proclaimed QB guru from what Ireland.

[clenz]

Yes. You use him like Newton. Yes m, Newton is bigger, but his knee wouldn't hold up against that hit no matter what you want to think.

He has never learned to slide. He never had too. Teach him caution. Teach him 4 yards and OB is better than 6 and getting hit

Take time to teach. Take time to use him properly and he puts up massive numbers, you admitted so yourself.

Throwing his career out the window because he was caught in the middle of the **** storm in Washington and because he doesn't fit your narrative of what a QB is is dumb.

He could be extremely productive of used right. It's why I'm a big proponent of not giving a damn who is QB. Use them right and succeed.

To bring it to an FCS level, it's why I hated the way Rennie, Carnes and Bailey were used at UNI.

Carnes was a serviceable short game passer but was forced into reading 20 yard routes. He didn't have the arm for it. His his passing numbers, and the offense, sputtered.

Carnes being asked to throw the ball 30 times a game was just asinine.

Bailey, is a bigger, faster, stronger Carnes. Give him the right route tree and he's fine. See Cal Poly and a few other games late on the year last year.

It'd be like a coach who only know the option trying to run it with Manning and then gong "he sucks, he can't run an offense" and everyone going "Yup, he sucks" and then not giving him a chance to do what he can do.


I'm a big proponent of most young QBs fail because they are drafted to a situation that doesn't fit them. Some just don't have it, no doubt. As I said, talent difference between 75% of the NFL starters is negligible at best. It's very situational.

[BisonTru]

Throwing his career out the window because he was caught in the middle of the **** storm in Washington and because he doesn't fit your narrative of what a QB is is dumb.


I've never advocated for not giving him a shot, and we are in agreement with how he should be utilized. I just have a lot more injury concerns than you do whether you teach him to slide more or not.

However, lets say I'm wrong and you revive his career as a dual threat QB and he stays healthy. Now he's 28 and he's gonna want to get paid starter money with some big guarantees. Do you fork over big bucks to an athletic QB going past his athletic prime? If he just got Cleveland to the playoffs you might have to or the fanbase would erupt.

[clenz]

Are you willing to pay Newton big bucks? He's older than RG3fun fact

Newton has average nearly 3 more carries per game than RG3

Has never had fewer than 103 attempts
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160420/7c6612abeab101d196037c16aae2fa65.jpg

[BisonTru]

They're both 26. Like I've said Newton is a better pocket passer. Newton once he gets past his 20s will have to use his feet less and less. I also have fewer injury concerns with Newton because of not only history, but his size. Newton right now is a pretty special player with his combination of athleticism, size, and passing ability. He, IMHO, will be an elite quarterback for the next few seasons. However, into his 30s he may regress, but I would still project him to be a solid starter.

As always time will tell, RG3 and Newton may both develop into very good pocket passers and be starting QBs well into their late 30s. I would bet more money on Newton than RG3.

[Thumper 76]

Two things with RGIII. One, he hasn't learned to slide. That's not a skill that takes years to learn. He had plenty of time to figure that out. If you couldn't figure out when to do that in a year then you aren't bright enough to be a NFL qb in my opinion. That's the major difference between him, Cam, and Wilson. The latter two slide, he doesn't.

Two, he created the media mess himself by lapping it up and having his campaign about his return and everything. That's not 100% on the coaches. That's on him. And I really liked the guy out of college. Loved his deep ball. Can he succeed in Cleveland? Maybe. I just have a hard time with a qb that seems to have the attitude he got after there was competition between him and Cousins. I don't think Cousins was any better than him, but I'd say they come off as pretty even. If I'm a coach and its even and playing one is going to get me crucified with every mistake he makes and draws a media circus (I use that term loosely, it's not on Tebow or Manziel level or anything) then I'm going to pick the guy that draws the least of that type of attention so we don't have to deal with the distraction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superman7515]

Geno Smith - Never ran the Air Raid Offense
Tim Couch - Drafted by the expansion Cleveland Browns
Johnny Manziel - Never ran the Air Raid Offense
Brandon Weedon - Never ran the Air Raid Offense
Kevin Kolb - Never ran the Air Raid Offense
Nick Foles - Never ran the Air Raid Offense
John Beck - Never ran the Air Raid Offense
Josh Heupel - Severe shoulder tendinitis before he was ever drafted, developed tendinosis and never played again

Two of the eight you named actually played in the Air Raid, one of those two was never medically able to play a down in the NFL, and the other was an expansion quarterback for the Browns. Again, there's an extremely small sample size as only 8 teams in the history of college football have used the Air Raid offense, but as I suspected, judging from the names you listed, you are asking about anyone who combined the West Coast and Run and Shoot, in which case there are dozens of successful NFL quarterbacks that used that style in college and several are in the Pro Football HOF.

[BisonTru]

Two of the eight you named actually played in the Air Raid, one of those two was never medically able to play a down in the NFL, and the other was an expansion quarterback for the Browns. Again, there's an extremely small sample size as only 8 teams in the history of college football have used the Air Raid offense, but as I suspected, judging from the names you listed, you are asking about anyone who combined the West Coast and Run and Shoot, in which case there are dozens of successful NFL quarterbacks that used that style in college and several are in the Pro Football HOF.


Geno Smith becomes Air Raid's greatest disciple – and college football's most powerful weapon

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--geno-smith-becomes-air-raid-s-greatest-disciple--ndash--and-college-football.html

So this isn't the Air Raid? What is the difference between Air Raid and Run and Shoot offenses? Would the guys I listed fit the heavy pass spread definition?

Not arguing honestly don't know.

[superman7515]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--geno-smith-becomes-air-raid-s-greatest-disciple--ndash--and-college-football.html

So this isn't the Air Raid? What is the difference between Air Raid and Run and Shoot offenses? Would the guys I listed fit the heavy pass spread definition?

Not arguing honestly don't know.

The Air Raid was developed by Hal Mumme and Mike Leach at Valdosta State when they were together in the early 90's. The only places the actual Air Raid has been used was Valdosta, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Washington State, and La Tech (under Sonny Dykes).

Air Raid is almost entirely vertical with intermediate and short routes a rarity. There are always 3 and usually 4 receivers on the play whose job is to get as far down the field as quickly as possible (Post-Wheel, Dig-Post, Crash), think sandlot ball, you run deep and I'll chuck it to you. The TE or one WR may, if the coach is feeling generous, give a single intermediate route off to try to find a hole in case of a zone defense, and a RB will be the emergency dump off with a delayed release or flare, but no Air Raid play is ever designed to intentionally dump a ball short to a RB. There's a very limited playbook for the receivers with no option routes, no screens, each receiver learns just one position on the field for just a select number of passing plays that they try to be so good at and so cardio superior, you can't stop them, despite them being relatively basic, and the QB better damn well not try running the ball himself unless it's goal line and the planets align correctly.

Run and Shoot uses motion to try to find out whether you're in man or zone (Air Raid doesn't care because they just assume they're better at their offensive play than your defense over the totality of the drive) and they will use screens and give the WR's options to maximize opportunities for when they take the big shot with the vertical game. Air Raid tries for one big play in every three and settles for smaller ones if they are forced to but would rather take an incompletion 40-yards down the field than a completion 4-yards down the field, Run and Shoot borrows from the West Coast philosophy in that they while they want that 40-yarder, they would rather you make a short completion and bring the defense in closer, then take a big shot the next play, instead of throwing an incompletion or interception. They'll even throw in a few jet sweeps and have plays that are run first once the QB notices the opponent has dropped too many into coverage and emptied the box.

[BisonTru]

The Air Raid was developed by Hal Mumme and Mike Leach at Valdosta State when they were together in the early 90's. The only places the actual Air Raid has been used was Valdosta, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Washington State, and La Tech (under Sonny Dykes).

Air Raid is almost entirely vertical with intermediate and short routes a rarity. There are always 3 and usually 4 receivers on the play whose job is to get as far down the field as quickly as possible (Post-Wheel, Dig-Post, Crash), think sandlot ball, you run deep and I'll chuck it to you. The TE or one WR may, if the coach is feeling generous, give a single intermediate route off to try to find a hole in case of a zone defense, and a RB will be the emergency dump off with a delayed release or flare, but no Air Raid play is ever designed to intentionally dump a ball short to a RB. There's a very limited playbook for the receivers with no option routes, no screens, each receiver learns just one position on the field for just a select number of passing plays that they try to be so good at and so cardio superior, you can't stop them, despite them being relatively basic, and the QB better damn well not try running the ball himself unless it's goal line and the planets align correctly.

Run and Shoot uses motion to try to find out whether you're in man or zone (Air Raid doesn't care because they just assume they're better at their offensive play than your defense over the totality of the drive) and they will use screens and give the WR's options to maximize opportunities for when they take the big shot with the vertical game. Air Raid tries for one big play in every three and settles for smaller ones if they are forced to but would rather take an incompletion 40-yards down the field than a completion 4-yards down the field, Run and Shoot borrows from the West Coast philosophy in that they while they want that 40-yarder, they would rather you make a short completion and bring the defense in closer, then take a big shot the next play, instead of throwing an incompletion or interception. They'll even throw in a few jet sweeps and have plays that are run first once the QB notices the opponent has dropped too many into coverage and emptied the box.

Thanks. xthumbsupx Good rundown of both.

One question, you said the quarterback doesn't run, however, watching a lot of Goff he didn't run it often, but he did occasionally. They also had a back up athletic quarterback who would come in for Goff from time to time and he ran it a lot when he was in. Did you mean the quarterback is never aloud to scrabble for yards? But they may do QB runs? Also, technically Goff ran the Bear Raid and we've never drafted a Bear Raid quarterback, the great unknown. xdrunkyx

BTW- I like Goff not sure what everyone's NFL teams are, but I think you'll be plenty happy with Goff if you draft him. I just like the ginger better.

[superman7515]

One question, you said the quarterback doesn't run, however, watching a lot of Goff he didn't run it often, but he did occasionally. They also had a back up athletic quarterback who would come in for Goff from time to time and he ran it a lot when he was in. Did you mean the quarterback is never aloud to scrabble for yards? But they may do QB runs? Also, technically Goff ran the Bear Raid and we've never drafted a Bear Raid quarterback, the great unknown. xdrunkyx

In an Air Raid offense, there are no scripted quarterback running plays outside of a very limited goal line situation (substitute 4th and short when you're behind situations, things like that, the point only being that we're talking two maybe three plays designed to get two yards max, not read option Cam Newton all over the field or triple option plays).

If he's running for his life, that's a different story. They just can't take many risks with the QB or top two receivers (those two won't go over the middle too often) because so much of the offense is built on the timing of the wide receivers knowing only one position but getting the timing with the starting QB perfect so they can beat you anyway with small windows, even though you know the route.

[BisonTru]

In an Air Raid offense, there are no scripted quarterback running plays outside of a very limited goal line situation (substitute 4th and short when you're behind situations, things like that, the point only being that we're talking two maybe three plays designed to get two yards max, not read option Cam Newton all over the field or triple option plays).

If he's running for his life, that's a different story. They just can't take many risks with the QB or top two receivers (those two won't go over the middle too often) because so much of the offense is built on the timing of the wide receivers knowing only one position but getting the timing with the starting QB perfect so they can beat you anyway with small windows, even though you know the route.

Hmm... They run a lot of run/pass option plays or like Jon Gruden called them Really bad Protection Offense where the line run blocks and the QB has the option to hand it off or throw it. If he decides to pass he almost is guaranteed to get at least hit. I'm not arguing. I really don't know. That just seems counter productive to the idea of keeping your QB in the game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

RG III's issue is that he's got a glass jaw. When he can run around and not get hit, he can complete passes. When he gets protection, he can complete passes. It's when he gets hit is the problem. Physically he's not durable enough to take the punishment that NFL QB's take, especially one that runs a lot.

One of the interesting aspects of RGIII is that he didn't fill out at all since he went to Washington. Not sure if it's lack of dedication to lifting, or if he's just rail-thin naturally, but IMO that hurts him more than anything.

Nonetheless, RGIII is still a singular talent and it's not difficult to see him thrive in the right situation. I'm just not sure that right situation is on the Browns.

Also, Kirk Cousins is trash.

[Daytripper]

The Air Raid was developed by Hal Mumme and Mike Leach at Valdosta State when they were together in the early 90's. The only places the actual Air Raid has been used was Valdosta, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Washington State, and La Tech (under Sonny Dykes).

Air Raid is almost entirely vertical with intermediate and short routes a rarity. There are always 3 and usually 4 receivers on the play whose job is to get as far down the field as quickly as possible (Post-Wheel, Dig-Post, Crash), think sandlot ball, you run deep and I'll chuck it to you. The TE or one WR may, if the coach is feeling generous, give a single intermediate route off to try to find a hole in case of a zone defense, and a RB will be the emergency dump off with a delayed release or flare, but no Air Raid play is ever designed to intentionally dump a ball short to a RB. There's a very limited playbook for the receivers with no option routes, no screens, each receiver learns just one position on the field for just a select number of passing plays that they try to be so good at and so cardio superior, you can't stop them, despite them being relatively basic, and the QB better damn well not try running the ball himself unless it's goal line and the planets align correctly.

Run and Shoot uses motion to try to find out whether you're in man or zone (Air Raid doesn't care because they just assume they're better at their offensive play than your defense over the totality of the drive) and they will use screens and give the WR's options to maximize opportunities for when they take the big shot with the vertical game. Air Raid tries for one big play in every three and settles for smaller ones if they are forced to but would rather take an incompletion 40-yards down the field than a completion 4-yards down the field, Run and Shoot borrows from the West Coast philosophy in that they while they want that 40-yarder, they would rather you make a short completion and bring the defense in closer, then take a big shot the next play, instead of throwing an incompletion or interception. They'll even throw in a few jet sweeps and have plays that are run first once the QB notices the opponent has dropped too many into coverage and emptied the box.


I remember when the Houston Oilers ran the Run and Shoot with Warren Moon. My recollection was that the basic read was how many defenders were "in the box." If the numbers were equal between offensive players in the box, or if the offense has a numerical advantage, then a run was called. If the defense had a numerical advantage by stacking the box, then a pass was called. Does that sound right?

[clenz]

I remember when the Houston Oilers ran the Run and Shoot with Warren Moon. My recollection was that the basic read was how many defenders were "in the box." If the numbers were equal between offensive players in the box, or if the offense has a numerical advantage, then a run was called. If the defense had a numerical advantage by stacking the box, then a pass was called. Does that sound right?
That's the basis for 90% of college offenses at this point as well.

[Daytripper]

That's the basis for 90% of college offenses at this point as well.

True, but back then it was innovative. Amazing how football has changed.

[BisonBacker]

Well here is the ultimate on Gruden QB Camp.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc-xX0vvmxk

[BisonFan02]

Philadelphia Eagles@Eagles (http://twitter.com/Eagles)http://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/697904193957294080/rPEbiCsm_normal.jpg
(http://twitter.com/Eagles)#Eagles (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Eagles&src=hash) have agreed to a trade with the Cleveland Browns to acquire the second-overall pick in the 2016 NFL Draft.

Whew.............Cleveland is out!

[BisonFan02]

Ian RapoportVerified account‏@RapSheet (https://twitter.com/RapSheet)

The #Eagles (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Eagles?src=hash) receive: No. 2, 2017 fourth rounder. #Browns (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Browns?src=hash) receive: No. 8, No. 77, No. 100; 2017 1st rounder, 2018 2nd rounder.






DAMN! xlolx

[Bisonator]

Philadelphia Eagles@Eagles

(http://twitter.com/Eagles)http://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/697904193957294080/rPEbiCsm_normal.jpg
(http://twitter.com/Eagles)#Eagles (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Eagles&src=hash) have agreed to a trade with the Cleveland Browns to acquire the second-overall pick in the 2016 NFL Draft.

Whew.............Cleveland is out!

I knew it. Wentz is guaranteed a top 2 pick now.

[BisonFan02]

Prepare for the impending twitter/social media war between Bison and Iggle fans.....this could get ugly. xlolx

[JSUSoutherner]

Philadelphia Eagles@Eagles

(http://twitter.com/Eagles)http://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/697904193957294080/rPEbiCsm_normal.jpg
(http://twitter.com/Eagles)#Eagles (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Eagles&src=hash) have agreed to a trade with the Cleveland Browns to acquire the second-overall pick in the 2016 NFL Draft.

Whew.............Cleveland is out!
Thank God. However, I don't think the Eagles won't take a QB after the new Bradford contract. Tunsil perhaps? I think who ever the Rams don't take (Wentz or Goff) either the Cowboys or San Fransico will get.

[BisonBacker]

Thank God. However, I don't think the Eagles won't take a QB after the new Bradford contract. Tunsil perhaps? I think who ever the Rams don't take (Wentz or Goff) either the Cowboys or San Fransico will get.

You have much to learn young greenhorn.

[BisonFan02]

Thank God. However, I don't think the Eagles won't take a QB after the new Bradford contract. Tunsil perhaps? I think who ever the Rams don't take (Wentz or Goff) either the Cowboys or San Fransico will get.

Did you see how expensive that move was? You don't do that for a OL....They could have gotten plenty of OL talent at pick #8.

[JSUSoutherner]

Did you see how expensive that move was? You don't do that for a OL....They could have gotten plenty of OL talent at pick #8.
No, I'm at work so I haven't looked at the deal. But I do know the Eagles just dropped $35M into the QB they already have.

I'm not saying they won't take a QB. I just think it's weird given the situation with Bradford. I guess it would be a pretty good idea to have two years to coach up a QB though wouldn't it?

[BisonFan02]

No, I'm at work so I haven't looked at the deal. But I do know the Eagles just dropped $35M into the QB they already have.

I'm not saying they won't take a QB. I just think it's weird given the situation with Bradford. I guess it would be a pretty good idea to have two years to coach up a QB though wouldn't it?

Trade Bradford to the Broncos...or the Jets.

[JSUSoutherner]

Trade Bradford to the Broncos...or the Jets.
Not going to lie, I completely forgot trading him was an option.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Not going to lie, I completely forgot trading him was an option.

That is because it really isn't an option...

[BisonFan02]

That is because it really isn't an option...

You don't think Elway is on the phone with Philly QB shopping?

[JSUSoutherner]

That is because it really isn't an option...
Then what is? Are they just going to coach him up behind Bradford?

I really wanted him to start somewhere next year and kick some butt so they would give him a really good card on Madden and I could put him on my team. :D

But seriously, how will the Bradford situation end up working out now?

[Hambone]

Stop the presses - my sources are saying that the Rams will select Goff #1 and the NY Jets will trade into the number 2 slot and take Mr. Wentz.

I may have just made that up. xthumbsupx

As it relates to Carson, I think he has the potential to be a hell of a pro QB - but as with most QBs it would probably be better if he was in a position to be mentored for a year or two prior to becoming the man. Will be interesting to see what happens.

Dammit - had the wrong team trading up......

[JSUSoutherner]

Dammit - had the wrong team trading up......
A green and white team from the north east with no QB? You were close enough. :D

[BisonFan02]

A green and white team from the north east with no QB? You were close enough. :D

or the 49ers.

[BisonBacker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=162&v=55ucxpGBYTw

[superman7515]

https://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2016/04/nfl_draft_2016_word_on_the_street_among_nfl_teams. html


The Eagles (http://www.nj.com/eagles) move into the No. 2 spot (http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2016/04/eagles_trade_with_cleveland_browns_no_2_pick_in_20 .html) in the 2016 NFL Draft has everybody thinking quarterbacks will go 1-2 in the first round next Thursday.The Rams also mortgaged their future (http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/04/nfl_draft_2016_titans_trade_no_1_overall_pick_to_r .html)last week to move up and select a franchise quarterback.

Quarterbacks Jared Goff and Carson Wentz (http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2016/04/jared_goff_carson_wentz_or_neither_time_for_howie. html) are the two most likely options. Goff, Wentz. Wentz, Goff. That is now the expectation with the first two picks in the draft.

There isn't much waffling among NFL teams. It seems to be a known deal in league circles that the Rams will take Goff at No. 1 overall, according to sources with four different teams. One individual even declared it a "done deal."

All individuals requested anonymity because the Rams have not disclosed their intentions and nothing is official until they make their pick next Thursday.

But all signs point to Goff, Wentz rather than Wentz, Goff. None of the teams surveyed hesitated before connecting Goff with the Rams. He was pegged as the new face of Los Angeles by several teams...