What issues do you have with the FCs

[clenz]

He other thread I started for a project gave me an idea for another project.

As the title says - what issues do you have with the FCS.

What don't you like?

How would you fix it?

Feel free to expand on these answers a bit more.

[BisonFan02]

Dayton rule elimination...and Playoffs or GTFO. xlolx

[taper]

24 playoff teams is far too many. Playoffs are to determine the best team, not a reward for a decent season. 5 teams from one conference(even my own) is ridiculous. No more than 2 without a *very* good reason. Go back to 16, don't care if that means there's fewer at large than autobids. Don't play first round Thanksgiving weekend, everybody has other plans. Participate in the playoffs or find a new home. Fund full scholarships or drop to D2(or D3). Find some carrots for strong inter-conference play. ESPN's FCS kickoff is a good start on that. East coast teams need to be willing to travel more than 200 miles.

Other than that, I've very happy with the state of the FCS. I honestly believe the FCS is in better condition than the G5. Not better play top to bottom, but better matched to their school's level.

[mvemjsunpx]

24 playoff teams is far too many. Playoffs are to determine the best team, not a reward for a decent season. 5 teams from one conference(even my own) is ridiculous. No more than 2 without a *very* good reason. Go back to 16, don't care if that means there's fewer at large than autobids. Don't play first round Thanksgiving weekend, everybody has other plans. Participate in the playoffs or find a new home. Fund full scholarships or drop to D2(or D3). Find some carrots for strong inter-conference play. ESPN's FCS kickoff is a good start on that. East coast teams need to be willing to travel more than 200 miles.

A conference getting more than 2 teams in was normal even before the playoffs expanded.

[Thumper 76]

The way home playoff games and match ups are decided. To hell with regionalization!! Will never happen but seed each team. The leagues that don't offer scholarships, but will for other sports, and then cry when they can compete. Just let them go to DII. And the teams that feel they are above the playoffs annoy the hell out of me too. Wish there was more big name inter conference play including the Southern and CAA, but overall nothing too awful that bothers me.


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[Bisonoline]

Regionalization in the playoffs. If you are going to have a playoff do it correctly.

[BisonTru]

Every conference sends their conference champ to the playoffs.

Also, eliminate the SRS. The committee really doesn't use it, so just get rid of it.

[bonarae]

Quantity over quality in the playoffs
HBCUs and Ivies' participation in the playoffs, when will it happen? Or will the world implode and these will never happen at all?
The status of the PFL as a conference
Regional bias in OOC scheduling (most conferences)

[Southern Bison]

Taper is right...the power of the FCS has shifted from the east coast teams to nationwide (MVFC, BSC, SLC, & CAA). East Coast teams need to be willing to travel as part of a H&H contract with strong teams in the above-mentioned conferences...not the lower-tier looking for an OOC payday to recieve along with their ass-whooping.

Also, as mentioned before, the BS regionalization in the playoffs...seed the teams from 1 to 24.

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[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Regionalization of the playoffs...
Money Games....
The fact there's schools in FCS that have zero business being there...
Terrible facilities....
Really apathetic administrations...
Difficulty scheduling....
Teams move up....

[ngineer]

What bothers me are the restrictions placed on scheduling OOC games when teams don't have available games because they have to have some "money games" with FBS schools to fund their programs. Numerous times we have tried to schedule SoCon schools only to be denied because they have to have a beat down from Florida State, Alabama, etc. Talk about prostitution.

[JayJ79]

Money games are fun when your favorite FCS team often has non-negligible chance of getting a win out of them

[Casey_Orourke]

The money games are ok, but when your school, which was projected in the preseason to be one of their conferences basement teams, manage to beat a FBS P-5 school in their first game of the season. Then, a few weeks later, manages beat another FBS school (granted this school was a G-5 and definitely their conference bottom feeder) while setting a record for most points scored by an FCS/D-1AA over an FBS/D-1A, those money games become sweeter, especially when that P-5 team manages to beat the premier team in your state and also becomes bowl eligible.

[RichH2]

Regional frame of playoffs. Seed all teams and let the best one win. Whether a team gives schollies must be irrelevant to playoff selection. Some in power FCS leagues seem to think that playoffs are a reward for money spent. I would prefer that FCS not follow the P5 path dividing us into groups of haves and have nots. FCS now is an open division with the championship open to all who choose to participate.

[KPSUL]

I don't like the fact that FBS players can transfer to an FCS program and not sit out a season before playing. It actually has a negative effect on FCS recruiting from two perspectives. HS seniors who are a better fit at the FCS level can take a shot at FBS football knowing they can transfer without losing a year of eligibility. FCS schools with a history of bringing in a large number of FBS transfers are correspondingly breaking commitments to the players who chose an FCS program from the start and worked hard to earn playing time. Any coach or relative assisting a college prospect considering schools, should explain this fact to the kids they are advising.

[Catatonic]

Four fricken' years to transition from D2 to FCS. That's a long time to spend as a nomadic wanderer in the wastelands of college football.

It makes the transition process anything but smooth.

[BisonFan02]

Four fricken' years to transition from D2 to FCS. That's a long time to spend as a nomadic wanderer in the wastelands of college football.

It makes the transition process anything but smooth.

Truth. :D

[RootinFerDukes]

1) we're a 2nd tier of division one football and no matter how much you show proof that the ncaa classifies our football product as division one, you can't convince any fan of an FBS team that we're not "division two". I've just stopped bothering to explain it when I realize i'm talking to an idiot that can't grasp the simple concept. This also creates a culture that any school not named JMU, Delaware or Montana that has an opportunity to move, doesn't hesitate to do so. It's 123 teams nationwide that don't really want to be here if they could do something about it. (okay maybe not all the teams).
2) regionalization of playoffs is terrible because it forces the same general group of teams to play each other in early rounds of the playoffs EVERY YEAR. If you have North Dakota State in your region, it's beat them and beat them early, or see you next year. Matchups against tougher competition should be reserved for the later rounds of the playoffs. Seed the entire field. Please.
3) some schools have some really bad facilities. it's like, why even bother fielding a team? I feel like i'm at a high school game.
4) some schools really have pitiful, apathetic fan bases. I've been to the following CAA schools for JMU road games: Villanova, Delaware, Towson, Richmond, William & Mary, Old Dominion (former member). Towson had the nicest facility overall, Delaware had the biggest stadium. Delaware and ODU had the best atmospheres. Villanova and Towson had a sad non-existent atmosphere.

[RichH2]

I don't like the fact that FBS players can transfer to an FCS program and not sit out a season before playing. It actually has a negative effect on FCS recruiting from two perspectives. HS seniors who are a better fit at the FCS level can take a shot at FBS football knowing they can transfer without losing a year of eligibility. FCS schools with a history of bringing in a large number of FBS transfers are correspondingly breaking commitments to the players who chose an FCS program from the start and worked hard to earn playing time. Any coach or relative assisting a college prospect considering schools, should explain this fact to the kids they are advising.
Good point. But a fact of life not likely to change. Not a major factor for most FCS teams particularly in the NE. Other than JMU and UD cant think of any that get large numbers of FBS transfers. Much more prevalent in the W and SW. Partly a geographical issue given the dispersion of FCS and FBS teams there. Comparatively NE has few .

[MR. CHICKEN]

......LACK UH......REFEREE INSTANT REPLAY....O' SOME FORM TA OVERAH RULE.....BAD CALLS......FO' EVERAH FCS GAME...........BUK...BUK...BUK...BRAWK!

....RICHIE......SINCE BROCK...TOOK OVERAH....YA CAN COUNT DUH X-FERS.......ONAH FEW FINGERS......WE'RE HARDLAH X-FER U........BROCK!

[RootinFerDukes]

Four fricken' years to transition from D2 to FCS. That's a long time to spend as a nomadic wanderer in the wastelands of college football.

It makes the transition process anything but smooth.
I don't understand why D2 to FCS takes 4 years of transition, while FCS to FBS is only 2 years. They should both be two years. Better yet, F the transition. Once you are at that level, independent or not, you should be immediately eligible for postseason/bowl play.

[RootinFerDukes]

Good point. But a fact of life not likely to change. Not a major factor for most FCS teams particularly in the NE. Other than JMU and UD cant think of any that get large numbers of FBS transfers. Much more prevalent in the W and SW. Partly a geographical issue given the dispersion of FCS and FBS teams there. Comparatively NE has few .
Sam Houston State has a history of FBS transfers within TX I believe. KC Keeler is still keeping it going at SHSU and he loved to rely on FBS transfers when he was at UD too.
As far as JMU, we like to offer kids we know we have no shot at with their BCS offers in case they decide to transfer, they already have a positive association with the current FCS coaching staff. It seems like for every Justin Rascati and Vad Lee that we get from FBS, we have many transfers that hardly see the field and are non-factors even at our level. Sometimes there's a reason why they transferred and couldn't see playing time.

[RootinFerDukes]

......LACK UH......REFEREE INSTANT REPLAY....O' SOME FORM TA OVERAH RULE.....BAD CALLS......FO' EVERAH FCS GAME...........BUK...BUK...BUK...BRAWK!

....RICHIE......SINCE BROCK...TOOK OVERAH....YA CAN COUNT DUH X-FERS.......ONAH FEW FINGERS......WE'RE HARDLAH X-FER U........BROCK!
JMU has been testing out instant replay for the CAA the past few seasons and trust me... they can sit there for 10 minutes and watch it 50 times and somehow still manage to botch an obvious call. it really is a rag tag bunch of zebras out there any given saturday.


oh yeah. Reason #5 why I don't like the FCS. THE REFEREES ARE GOD AWFUL. ALL OF THEM.

[RichH2]

......LACK UH......REFEREE INSTANT REPLAY....O' SOME FORM TA OVERAH RULE.....BAD CALLS......FO' EVERAH FCS GAME...........BUK...BUK...BUK...BRAWK!

....RICHIE......SINCE BROCK...TOOK OVERAH....YA CAN COUNT DUH X-FERS.......ONAH FEW FINGERS......WE'RE HARDLAH X-FER U........BROCK!
:) True. But, you and JMU are only 2 in NE in recent years to have numbers of FBS transfers annually.

[Ivytalk]

Regionalization of the playoffs...
Money Games....
The fact there's schools in FCS that have zero business being there...
Terrible facilities....
Really apathetic administrations...
Difficulty scheduling....
Teams move up....
Sums it up for me! Add apathetic student bodies.

[mvemjsunpx]

I don't understand why D2 to FCS takes 4 years of transition, while FCS to FBS is only 2 years. They should both be two years. Better yet, F the transition. Once you are at that level, independent or not, you should be immediately eligible for postseason/bowl play.

DII to FCS is a full division change in all sports. FCS to FBS is just a subdivision change for football only. The academic recruiting standards aren't any different between FCS & FBS like they are between full divisions.

[bjtheflamesfan]

FIrst post in a while but I agree with those who take issue with regionalization in the playoffs.

If I was setting the bracket from last year here is how I would have arranged it with everyone being seeded as some have suggested:

#1 Jacksonville State vs #24 Duquesne
#2 Illinois State vs. #23 Dayton
#3 North Dakota State vs. #22 The Citadel
#4 McNeese State vs. #21 South Dakota State
#5 James Madison vs #20 Colgate
#6 Portland State vs. #19 Western Illinois
#7 Richmond vs. #18 Eastern Illinois
#8 Charleston Southern vs. #17 Montana
#9 New Hampshire vs. #16 Coastal Carolina
#10 Northern Iowa vs. #15 William & Mary
#11 Sam Houston State vs. #14 Fordham
#12 Southern Utah vs. #13 Chattanooga

I automatically made the 8 national seeds from last year home teams. The tough part came from picking the last 4 home teams, and then rearranging the teams in such a way as to avoid regionalization. If the first round was all chalk, second round would be 1 vs. 12, 2 vs. 11, 3 vs. 10, 4 vs. 9, 5 vs. 8, 6 vs. 7. The fun part comes after the third round because you would have only 6 teams left.

[Lehigh'98]

No competition for Harvard

[walliver]

My issue is that FCS status is defined by what it is not, not by what it is. Specifically you are in FCS if 1) you are D-I in basketball, 2) have a football team, and 3) aren't in FBS.

There are FCS teams averaging 20-30K per game, and others averaging a few hundred.
There is teams with 63 scholarships and teams with 0 scholarships.
There are teams flying to games in chartered jets, and teams piling into school buses to drive a few miles.

I suspect most teams are happy at the FCS level, but it should be easy for those that aren't to move on ... it's their dime.

[JayJ79]

I automatically made the 8 national seeds from last year home teams. The tough part came from picking the last 4 home teams, and then rearranging the teams in such a way as to avoid regionalization. If the first round was all chalk, second round would be 1 vs. 12, 2 vs. 11, 3 vs. 10, 4 vs. 9, 5 vs. 8, 6 vs. 7. The fun part comes after the third round because you would have only 6 teams left.

that doesn't make any sense. With 24 teams, you'd have the top 8 get first round byes, and it would end up being:
#1 Jacksonville State vs [#16 Coastal Carolina v #17 Montana]
#2 Illinois State vs. [#15 William & Mary v #18 Eastern Illinois]
#3 North Dakota State vs. [#14 Fordham v #19 Western Illinois]
#4 McNeese State vs. [#13 Chattanooga v #20 Colgate]
#5 James Madison vs [#12 Southern Utah v #21 South Dakota State]
#6 Portland State vs. [#11 Sam Houston State v #22 The Citadel]
#7 Richmond vs. [#10 Northern Iowa v #23 Dayton]
#8 Charleston Southern vs. [#9 New Hampshire v #24 Duquesne]

(bold = possible second round rematch between conference mates)

[clenz]

......LACK UH......REFEREE INSTANT REPLAY....O' SOME FORM TA OVERAH RULE.....BAD CALLS......FO' EVERAH FCS GAME...........BUK...BUK...BUK...BRAWK!

....RICHIE......SINCE BROCK...TOOK OVERAH....YA CAN COUNT DUH X-FERS.......ONAH FEW FINGERS......WE'RE HARDLAH X-FER U........BROCK!

I sincerely forget other conferences don't have replay.

UNI has had it for a full recruiting cycle.

[bjtheflamesfan]

that doesn't make any sense. With 24 teams, you'd have the top 8 get first round byes, and it would end up being:
#1 Jacksonville State vs [#16 Coastal Carolina v #17 Montana]
#2 Illinois State vs. [#15 William & Mary v #18 Eastern Illinois]
#3 North Dakota State vs. [#14 Fordham v #19 Western Illinois]
#4 McNeese State vs. [#13 Chattanooga v #20 Colgate]
#5 James Madison vs [#12 Southern Utah v #21 South Dakota State]
#6 Portland State vs. [#11 Sam Houston State v #22 The Citadel]
#7 Richmond vs. [#10 Northern Iowa v #23 Dayton]
#8 Charleston Southern vs. [#9 New Hampshire v #24 Duquesne]

(bold = possible second round rematch between conference mates)

Thanks for making that more clear JayJ. To avoid that second round rematch you could switch Western with either Montana or The Citadel.

[BisonFan02]

I sincerely forget other conferences don't have replay.

UNI has had it for a full recruiting cycle.

Unless the host team doesn't want it....right SIU? xlolx

[Twentysix]

The regional bull**** nature of OOC, and the regional bull**** nature of the playoffs.

Also the level of competition outside of the top 15 or so teams.

[Boogs]

Full scholarship FCS football (that means we exclude the PFL) gets bumped-out of the free area and it will cost you in 'Hip National Bank' if you force the issue.

The high level of FCS makes it unavailable for a free online video stream...and at the same time also not high enough to be appear on cable TV for free because FBS gets the nod.

If you go in person you have to pay big money per seat (Richmond Spiders $20-$26) while a D3 game in person costs $6 per seat.

Kind of sucks. Unless you find a non-United States website server hosting a copied streaming of a FCS game you will have to pay to see it. The pirated video stream outside of the United States is unethical. It's a case of right vs. wrong for the folks who watch it..

[RichH2]

Full scholarship FCS football (that means we exclude the PFL) gets bumped-out of the free area and it will cost you in 'Hip National Bank' if you force the issue.

The high level of FCS makes it unavailable for a free online video stream...and at the same time also not high enough to be appear on cable TV for free because FBS gets the nod.

If you go in person you have to pay big money per seat (Richmond Spiders $20-$26) while a D3 game in person costs $6 per seat. NY

Kind of sucks. Unless you find a non-United States website server hosting a copied streaming of a FCS game you will have to pay to see it. The pirated video stream outside of the United States is unethical. It's a case of right vs. wrong for the folks who watch it..
True on a national level. Dont know about availability in other areas but in the NE you can stream games from a lot of conferences. Plus. there are regional free telecasts of Ivy,CAA and PL games.

[RootinFerDukes]

Last year I kept a list of local Fcs broadcasts here in VA. It was CAA, meac, swac and Ivy probably in that order of prevalence on tv. Patriot and ovc with a handful games. Maybe one or two socon. Thanks to their fox sports deal, I had a number of slc games in my area.
The big sky and Mvfc were not available outside of national games (I don't count ESPN3 as tv). No pioneer league clearly.

[clenz]

Full scholarship FCS football (that means we exclude the PFL) gets bumped-out of the free area and it will cost you in 'Hip National Bank' if you force the issue.

The high level of FCS makes it unavailable for a free online video stream...and at the same time also not high enough to be appear on cable TV for free because FBS gets the nod.

If you go in person you have to pay big money per seat (Richmond Spiders $20-$26) while a D3 game in person costs $6 per seat.

Kind of sucks. Unless you find a non-United States website server hosting a copied streaming of a FCS game you will have to pay to see it. The pirated video stream outside of the United States is unethical. It's a case of right vs. wrong for the folks who watch it..

I watched, or had the ability to watch, every MVFC game for free last year.

Meanwhile you want to know how many D3 games I could stream on ESPN3 last year? Maybe2...maybe

[Boogs]

Meanwhile you want to know how many D3 games I could stream on ESPN3 last year? Maybe2...maybe

You go directly to the D3 school's athletic website (not the ESPN3 provider website) and you can stream virtually every game in D3 for free every week.

[mvemjsunpx]

True on a national level. Dont know about availability in other areas but in the NE you can stream games from a lot of conferences. Plus. there are regional free telecasts of Ivy,CAA and PL games.

Big Sky streaming is also free.

[clenz]

You go directly to the D3 school's athletic website (not the ESPN3 provider website) and you can stream virtually every game in D3 for free every week.

Literally not even virtually true for 98+%of D3

[grizband]

Are you also complaining about $20 ticket prices?

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[Bisonator]

My only complaints are the non-scholly teams and regionalization. Both would be rather simple to fix but won't happen.

[Twentysix]

Full scholarship FCS football (that means we exclude the PFL) gets bumped-out of the free area and it will cost you in 'Hip National Bank' if you force the issue.

The high level of FCS makes it unavailable for a free online video stream...and at the same time also not high enough to be appear on cable TV for free because FBS gets the nod.

If you go in person you have to pay big money per seat (Richmond Spiders $20-$26) while a D3 game in person costs $6 per seat.

Kind of sucks. Unless you find a non-United States website server hosting a copied streaming of a FCS game you will have to pay to see it. The pirated video stream outside of the United States is unethical. It's a case of right vs. wrong for the folks who watch it..

Every single NDSU game is available on statewide NBC in ND and parts of MN/MT/SD. They are also available online nationwide through ESPN3 or Midco.

I had no problems watching every single NDSU game in SoCal, and I never paid for a single one.

[ST_Lawson]

Every single NDSU game is available on statewide NBC in ND and parts of MN/MT/SD. They are also available online nationwide through ESPN3 or Midco.

I had no problems watching every single NDSU game in SoCal, and I never paid for a single one.

I think there were only 2, maybe 3, total MVFC conference games that weren't available on ESPN3 last year. Not only was I able to watch all of Western's away games that I didn't go to (live and in HD), but I was able to watch any of the other interesting conference games that were on at the same time, as well as replays of games that I had gone to (was particularly useful to go back and watch some replays of parts of games that I'd attended myself, and therefore didn't get good replay views of certain plays/situations when it was live).

For those of you who don't count ESPN3 as "real tv"...you're going to have to deal with it. This is the direction that TV is going...streaming (whether live or "on demand"). You can get streaming sticks or set-top boxes for as low as ~$30 and nearly all of them are $100 or less. That gets it to your TV, otherwise you can watch them on your computer, your phone, or your tablet through apps. By the time my kids are high school aged (8-10 years), turning on the cable box and changing the channel to ESPN won't even be a thing.

[jmufan999]

for starters, I hate listening to whiny, arrogant JMU posters look down their noses at FCS like we're some big fish in a small pond (which makes no sense, considering we haven't won 2+ playoff games since 2008). seriously, go read the board and let me know what you think.

about FCS in general, I hate the regionalization of the playoffs and I'd prefer 16 teams. I'd settle for 24 if they were all seeded, though. pipe dream.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I don't understand why D2 to FCS takes 4 years of transition, while FCS to FBS is only 2 years. They should both be two years. Better yet, F the transition. Once you are at that level, independent or not, you should be immediately eligible for postseason/bowl play.

My understanding is that D-I has more stringent academic standards so the four year transition from D2 is for the vast majority of the kids recruited for D2 to be out of the program. Because FBS and FCS are both D-I, there isn't a similar issue. I think the two years is to allow a school to ramp up scholarships and to schedule appropriately.

[clenz]

I think there were only 2, maybe 3, total MVFC conference games that weren't available on ESPN3 last year. Not only was I able to watch all of Western's away games that I didn't go to (live and in HD), but I was able to watch any of the other interesting conference games that were on at the same time, as well as replays of games that I had gone to (was particularly useful to go back and watch some replays of parts of games that I'd attended myself, and therefore didn't get good replay views of certain plays/situations when it was live).

For those of you who don't count ESPN3 as "real tv"...you're going to have to deal with it. This is the direction that TV is going...streaming (whether live or "on demand"). You can get streaming sticks or set-top boxes for as low as ~$30 and nearly all of them are $100 or less. That gets it to your TV, otherwise you can watch them on your computer, your phone, or your tablet through apps. By the time my kids are high school aged (8-10 years), turning on the cable box and changing the channel to ESPN won't even be a thing.
They would have been OOC games. Every conference game was on ESPN3.

I know the UNI @ Iowa State game wasn't ESPN3, but that was a B12 broadcast that ISU didn't sell to anyone but mediacom to put on their private "Iowa State TV station" on Mediacom Cable.

[ST_Lawson]

They would have been OOC games. Every conference game was on ESPN3.

I know the UNI @ Iowa State game wasn't ESPN3, but that was a B12 broadcast that ISU didn't sell to anyone but mediacom to put on their private "Iowa State TV station" on Mediacom Cable.

Missouri State at Southern Illinois
Southern Illinois at South Dakota
Neither of these games were on ESPN3.

I believe that the SIU @ USD game was streamed on UDS's website (for free), but MSU @ SIU was only available on Saluki All-Access (paid).

OOC games kinda depended on the opponent and location. For Western, home vs Eastern was on ESPN3, at the U of Illinois was on BTN, and at Coastal Carolina was only streamed through CCU's website (or maybe it was the Big South website...it was a free stream).

[clenz]

Missouri State at Southern Illinois
Southern Illinois at South Dakota
Neither of these games were on ESPN3.

I believe that the SIU @ USD game was streamed on UDS's website (for free), but MSU @ SIU was only available on Saluki All-Access (paid).

OOC games kinda depended on the opponent and location. For Western, home vs Eastern was on ESPN3, at the U of Illinois was on BTN, and at Coastal Carolina was only streamed through CCU's website (or maybe it was the Big South website...it was a free stream).
That's incredibly odd, especially the game at SIU. They are part of the MVC which has a streaming rights package with the ESPN which requires higher level broadcast capability.

Though we've seen multiple times from SIU they aren't real willing to do what it takes in a myriad of ways.

[ST_Lawson]

That's incredibly odd, especially the game at SIU. They are part of the MVC which has a streaming rights package with the ESPN which requires higher level broadcast capability.

Though we've seen multiple times from SIU they aren't real willing to do what it takes in a myriad of ways.

Yea, I thought it was odd too. They obviously both have the capabilities of doing it...they had other home games on ESPN3 last season...but for some reason those two didn't. And it wasn't due to technical difficulties either. I went through at the beginning of the season and checked everyone's conference schedules against the schedule posted on the MVFC website for the ESPN3 agreement and those two games were not listed in the agreement. ESPN doesn't send anyone to those game, right? I'm pretty sure it's usually just the local broadcast/coverage of the games that are then uploaded live to ESPN's servers and then "rebroadcasted" via ESPN3 nationally...so it wouldn't have been a conflict of schedule where ESPN couldn't get someone there for those games or something.

[clenz]

Yea, I thought it was odd too. They obviously both have the capabilities of doing it...they had other home games on ESPN3 last season...but for some reason those two didn't. And it wasn't due to technical difficulties either. I went through at the beginning of the season and checked everyone's conference schedules against the schedule posted on the MVFC website for the ESPN3 agreement and those two games were not listed in the agreement. ESPN doesn't send anyone to those game, right? I'm pretty sure it's usually just the local broadcast/coverage of the games that are then uploaded live to ESPN's servers and then "rebroadcasted" via ESPN3 nationally...so it wouldn't have been a conflict of schedule where ESPN couldn't get someone there for those games or something.
Yep. ESPN3 games are local broadcasts spent to ESPN.

Was the YSU @ SIU game broadcast? Looking at the conference site it wasn't but SIU's site shows it was.

I don't get SIU. As previously mentioned, I don't think they utilize replay either.

[ST_Lawson]

Yep. ESPN3 games are local broadcasts spent to ESPN.

Was the YSU @ SIU game broadcast? Looking at the conference site it wasn't but SIU's site shows it was.

I don't get SIU. As previously mentioned, I don't think they utilize replay either.

ESPN's page for the YSU @ SIU game lists the coverage as ESPN3 (left column, down a bit, under "Game Information): http://espn.go.com/college-football/game?gameId=400795741
I am unable to verify first-hand on that though (I was at the WIU vs ISUr game in Normal that afternoon, so I wasn't watching any games on TV/computer).

For comparison, the MSU @SIU game: http://espn.go.com/college-football/game?gameId=400795733

[KPSUL]

for starters, I hate listening to whiny, arrogant JMU posters look down their noses at FCS like we're some big fish in a small pond (which makes no sense, considering we haven't won 2+ playoff games since 2008). seriously, go read the board and let me know what you think.

about FCS in general, I hate the regionalization of the playoffs and I'd prefer 16 teams. I'd settle for 24 if they were all seeded, though. pipe dream.

I read the JMU board fairly frequently during the season, I know what your talking about. I follow JMU football because I live only 34 miles away and go to 2-3 CAA games a year at Bridgeforth Stadium. I feel your pain. I think after the 2015 season JMU collapse, and the debacle of Everett Withers departure, I'd hope they've develop some degree of humility. Perhaps things are heading in the right direction with Mike Houston. But did they overpay him by FCS standards like they did Withers?

[Hammerhead]

Set a minimum scholarship level for football. If you can't afford it, drop to D-II or drop football.

Since every other tournament seems to be regionalized, I doubt we'll ever get it out of the FCS playoffs. Seeding all 24 teams will also generate complaints with people asking why their team was seeded 17th instead of 18th and whatnot. I would like to see the field dropped to a lower number to avoid Thanksgiving weekend games.

[clenz]

ESPN's page for the YSU @ SIU game lists the coverage as ESPN3 (left column, down a bit, under "Game Information): http://espn.go.com/college-football/game?gameId=400795741
I am unable to verify first-hand on that though (I was at the WIU vs ISUr game in Normal that afternoon, so I wasn't watching any games on TV/computer).

For comparison, the MSU @SIU game: http://espn.go.com/college-football/game?gameId=400795733
Yeah. Just odd.

I've followed UNI for most of my life, but wasn't real close until 2004/2005 when I got vaguely recruited by them (not hard just a "Hey, wanna walk on?") so the only SIU I grew to know was the Kill era. To see the fall since then is crazy. Then I look at what SIU pre-Kill and it makes more sense. Also remember that my true introduction to SIU athletics also included SIU basketball in the mid 00s. So to really see where SIU is now is a complete shock to me

[ST_Lawson]

Yeah. Just odd.

I've followed UNI for most of my life, but wasn't real close until 2004/2005 when I got vaguely recruited by them (not hard just a "Hey, wanna walk on?") so the only SIU I grew to know was the Kill era. To see the fall since then is crazy. Then I look at what SIU pre-Kill and it makes more sense. Also remember that my true introduction to SIU athletics also included SIU basketball in the mid 00s. So to really see where SIU is now is a complete shock to me

Ah, yea. The Kill era was an anomaly for SIU. When I started in Western's marching band (and started following I-AA football) it was the late '90s and we were about 13-14 years into what would become an 18-year win streak for Western over Southern in football ('84-'01). SIU won the national championship in '83 and then went on to have only 2 winning seasons out of the next 19. They were pretty bad for a long time.

[NY Crusader 2010]

What would I like to see change?

1) Playoff field back down to 20 given that only ten conferences participate. NCAA bylaws require at least an equal number of at-large bids to auto-bids so 16 is no longer an option.

2) Use of instant replay during the regular season - not sure how economically feasible this is but would love to see the bad calls get overturned.

3) Ivy participation in the playoffs -- the HBCU's aren't coming back any time soon as long as the Celebration Bowl continues to generate $$$. Of course, bringing the Ivy champ in would require playoff field to remain at 24. But at least we wouldn't have 5-loss teams getting in.

[kdinva]

I don't like the fact that FBS players can transfer to an FCS program and not sit out a season before playing. It actually has a negative effect on FCS recruiting from two perspectives. HS seniors who are a better fit at the FCS level can take a shot at FBS football knowing they can transfer without losing a year of eligibility. FCS schools with a history of bringing in a large number of FBS transfers are correspondingly breaking commitments to the players who chose an FCS program from the start and worked hard to earn playing time. Any coach or relative assisting a college prospect considering schools, should explain this fact to the kids they are advising.

xnodx xthumbsupx

[DFW HOYA]

Set a minimum scholarship level for football. If you can't afford it, drop to D-II or drop football.

That doesn't solve problems, it only monetizes it. If Columbia gave every football player a $1000 scholarship, does that make Columbia a better team? No, it just puts $1000 in the account of the players who ended up at Columbia.

This is part of Georgetown's scholarship paradox. Georgetown is constrained in who they can recruit by the PL's own rules, so spending additional program resources on reaching a higher level of talent is counterproductive. Is it worth spending $4-5M a year to get the same recruits?

[clenz]

That doesn't solve problems, it only monitizes it. If Columbia gave every football player a $100 scholarship, does that make Columbia a better team?
They'd have 63 scholarships to give to 85 players.

It might not win them more games short term but it would likely get them a much better quality player as the years went on.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I don't like the fact that FBS players can transfer to an FCS program and not sit out a season before playing.Ithas a negative effect on FCS recruiting from two perspectives. HS seniors who are a better fit at the FCS level can take a shot at FBS football knowing they can transfer without losing a year of eligibility. FCS schools with a history of bringing in a large number of FBS transfers are correspondingly breaking commitments to the players who chose an FCS program from the start and worked hard to earn playing time. Any coach or relative assisting a college prospect considering schools, should explain this fact to the kids they are advising.

........WHAT GOOD WOOD MAKIN' UH X-FER...SIT ONE YEAR?.....DUH HIGHSKOOL SENIOR WOOD PROLLY RED-SHIRT.....AN' X-FER WOOD STILL BE ON ROSTER ANYWHO.........AH'D THINK...MAYBE @ QB POSITION....IT MIGHT MAKE SOME DIFF.....BUT SKOOL WOODN'T NEED UH QB....IFIN' INCUMBENT/UNDERCLASSMEN.....WERE GOOD 'NUFF...AN'...THERE ARE PLENTY UH OPPURTUNITIES @ OL/DL/RB/WR/DB.....SO AS NOT TA RUFFLE FEATHERAHS................BRAWK!

[KPSUL]

........WHAT GOOD WOOD MAKIN' UH X-FER...SIT ONE YEAR?.....DUH HIGHSKOOL SENIOR WOOD PROLLY RED-SHIRT.....AN' X-FER WOOD STILL BE ON ROSTER ANYWHO.........AH'D THINK...MAYBE @ QB POSITION....IT MIGHT MAKE SOME DIFF.....BUT SKOOL WOODN'T NEED UH QB....IFIN' INCUMBENT/UNDERCLASSMEN.....WERE GOOD 'NUFF...AN'...THERE ARE PLENTY UH OPPURTUNITIES @ OL/DL/RB/WR/DB.....SO AS NOT TA RUFFLE FEATHERAHS................BRAWK!

If it is only a player or two every few years, it probably doesn't make much difference. But there is a point, and I'd only be guessing if I gave you a precise number of FBS transfers per year, where it does compromise the continuity and integrity of a program. I suppose it would be even worse if they allowed FCS players to transfer to FBS schools without sitting out a year. That would turn the FCS programs into farm teams for the FBS.

[eiu1999]

Reduce the number of playoff teams to 16.

[wapiti]

The Pioneer, SWAC and MEAC should be Div. II
and the Ivy should send their champ to the playoffs.

[clenz]

Those that have an issue with the 24 team field and want to see it at 16 how do you propose to make that happen within NCAA rules?

As of now it must be a minimum of 20, and until this past year 24 (well, 22) was the smallest it could have been.

Nearly off of us would love to see the Ivy's in - that means it has to be at least 24 (22) again.

You're only option would be to create a non-NCAA playoff and...well...
-No longer allowed to brag about being an NCAA D1 champion
-Who the **** is footing most of that bill

[Twentysix]

The only problem with the playoffs is that NDSU has to play SDSU every single ****ing year.

The number of teams is just fine. There is only one winner, that is all that matters.

[REALBird]

The structure of FCS football where Ivies and HBCU's don't participate in the playoffs.
The disparity in scholarships funded by schools.
The lack of media exposure for some conferences.
Geography......too few schools out West (makes for some interesting schedules)
Regionalization (the obvious elephant in the room)
Laziness.......few schools schedule beyond their regional borders.
The Polls (except AGS) ......few coaches/SID's, etc., vote outside of their regional boundaries and have no clue what goes on elsewhere except for AP storylines.
I'm sure I'll think of something someone else has already posted.

[UNHWildcat18]

The Pioneer, SWAC and MEAC should be Div. II
and the Ivy should send their champ to the playoffs.

I agree,also tell the NEC to get rid of the 40 limit or go d-2 as well.

[Boogs]

The Pioneer, SWAC and MEAC should be Div. II
and the Ivy should send their champ to the playoffs.

Hear, hear!

[Go...gate]

Every conference should send its champion to the playoffs, including the Ivy, SWAC and MEAC. That is my biggest gripe.

[ndsubison]

I don't like regionalization. We've seen what SDSU can do in the playoffs. I'm a Bison, But no way the Jacks should be matched up with NDSU 1st rd every yr.

[Twentysix]

I don't like regionalization. We've seen what SDSU can do in the playoffs. I'm a Bison, But no way the Jacks should be matched up with NDSU 1st rd every yr.

Its a nightmare for them now, but if NDSU ever recedes, which will happen eventually, its going to turn into a ****ing nightmare for us, because the Jacks will probably get stronger with any drop off at NDSU.

Not to mention an NDSU SDSU semifinal or final would be just epic.

[Catatonic]

Every conference should send its champion to the playoffs, including the Ivy, SWAC and MEAC. That is my biggest gripe.

I'd agree with this. I'll add it to my short list, which now looks like this:

1. The play offs take too long and involve too many teams.
2. The 4 year transition period from D2 to FCS is too long and makes it tough for transition teams to recruit and be competitive.
3. The lack of uniformity among conferences re: scholarships and play off participation. In or out, people.

[Twentysix]

I'd agree with this. I'll add it to my short list, which now looks like this:

1. The play offs take too long and involve too many teams.
2. The 4 year transition period from D2 to FCS is too long and makes it tough for transition teams to recruit and be competitive.
3. The lack of uniformity among conferences re: scholarships and play off participation. In or out, people.

Its supposed to be hard, to deter teams from moving up and down and up and down and up and down.

[Catatonic]

Its supposed to be hard, to deter teams from moving up and down and up and down and up and down.

I get the need to have standards--average attendance minimum, budget minimum and so forth. But the 4 year ban on post season playoffs is a killer. If hinders recruiting, which will have an impact on program development and performance long after the four years have come and gone.

[clenz]

I get the need to have standards--average attendance minimum, budget minimum and so forth. But the 4 year ban on post season playoffs is a killer. If hinders recruiting, which will have an impact on program development and performance long after the four years have come and gone.

D2 and D1 have very different academic standards. It's designed to get a roster of D1 kids who are held to a higher academic standard.

Also, from what I gather from reading this forum is that 99% of posters forget that there are at least 13 other sports to be considered during the move.

[AmsterBison]

Needs less cow bell.

I'm looking at you, South Dakota State.

[Catatonic]

D2 and D1 have very different academic standards. It's designed to get a roster of D1 kids who are held to a higher academic standard.

Also, from what I gather from reading this forum is that 99% of posters forget that there are at least 13 other sports to be considered during the move.

Different, yes. This was one of the major reasons we chose to move up from D2.

Very different? That's subject to interpretation. In any case it does not require 4 years to transition from one set of standards to another.

[clenz]

Different, yes. This was one of the major reasons we chose to move up from D2.

Very different? That's subject to interpretation. In any case it does not require 4 years to transition from one set of standards to another.
When you have players recruited to one standard that may not meet the other standard it is an issue.

[jmufan999]

I read the JMU board fairly frequently during the season, I know what your talking about. I follow JMU football because I live only 34 miles away and go to 2-3 CAA games a year at Bridgeforth Stadium. I feel your pain. I think after the 2015 season JMU collapse, and the debacle of Everett Withers departure, I'd hope they've develop some degree of humility. Perhaps things are heading in the right direction with Mike Houston. But did they overpay him by FCS standards like they did Withers?

don't bank on the humility part. they've convinced themselves JMU is too good for FCS so there is no reasoning with them. the logic is so consistently flawed that it's pointless to even engage.

as far as Houston, I think he's probably paid appropriately. he's won everywhere he's been. he was going to be advancing his career at some point, either this year, next year, etc. Unlike Withers, he has a retention bonus in his contract after 2 years, beginning in Year 3. maybe that will help keep him if he's successful. even with that, I won't fault him if he wants to climb the ladder. that's the nature of the biz.

[Catatonic]

When you have players recruited to one standard that may not meet the other standard it is an issue.

Its an issue just not one that takes four years to sort out. Scholarships are one year renewable contracts. Give those who don't meet standards two years to find an alternative.

[clenz]

Its an issue just not one that takes four years to sort out. Scholarships are one year renewable contracts. Give those who don't meet standards two years to find an alternative.
Um...

You don't see the issue on that one?

[KPSUL]

don't bank on the humility part. they've convinced themselves JMU is too good for FCS so there is no reasoning with them. the logic is so consistently flawed that it's pointless to even engage.

as far as Houston, I think he's probably paid appropriately. he's won everywhere he's been. he was going to be advancing his career at some point, either this year, next year, etc. Unlike Withers, he has a retention bonus in his contract after 2 years, beginning in Year 3. maybe that will help keep him if he's successful. even with that, I won't fault him if he wants to climb the ladder. that's the nature of the biz.

Well, JMU is a very good school in some very substantial ways. Growth in both numbers of students, and reputation has occurred fairly rapidly. Maybe some of the alumni fans' egos have grown a little too rapidly as well.

I was impressed with Withers when he first came to JMU. But as time went on, he become more condescending and irascible at his press conferences, like he really didn't want to be there. Considering the FBS school he went to, and the timing of his departure, it seems like he just rode Vad Lee as far as would take him and then jumped ship at the very first FBS opportunity that came his way. I thought he might have the capability to lead JMU through several successively better seasons, leading to an offer from a more respectable FBS program. If you really was confident in his ability to coach and lead a program, he would have been better served to stay with JMU longer and work towards a little better FBS opportunity. You could almost watch his stock drop week by week after Vad Lee was injured. I hope the retention bonuses help retain Houston longer.

[RichH2]

Its an issue just not one that takes four years to sort out. Scholarships are one year renewable contracts. Give those who don't meet standards two years to find an alternative.Good Lord!! Yeah thats it, throw a bunch of kids under the bus. This is college football not the NFL or P5. If you want cutthroat policies mive up or go pro.

[dgtw]

I think everyone has covered the basic issues of the playoff structure, scholarship numbers and playoff boycotts of various leagues. So Ill bring up a new topic.

Being in FCS means you sacrifice the rest of your athletic program. The chances of an FCS team winning a national title in another major sport are close to zero.I know some FCS teams do well in hockey, but that is a very regional sport that is sponsored by 60 schools in DI. Of those, only 16 are FBS and 21 are DII or DIII. Do you think an FCS is going to win it all in basketball or baseball?

But to get the big check from March Madness, schools play FCS ball just to say they are DI. I wish there were subdivisions for other sports, but that isn't happening.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think everyone has covered the basic issues of the playoff structure, scholarship numbers and playoff boycotts of various leagues. So Ill bring up a new topic.

Being in FCS means you sacrifice the rest of your athletic program. The chances of an FCS team winning a national title in another major sport are close to zero.I know some FCS teams do well in hockey, but that is a very regional sport that is sponsored by 60 schools in DI. Of those, only 16 are FBS and 21 are DII or DIII. Do you think an FCS is going to win it all in basketball or baseball?

But to get the big check from March Madness, schools play FCS ball just to say they are DI. I wish there were subdivisions for other sports, but that isn't happening.

Maybe Villanova?

[dgtw]

Maybe Villanova?

Touché. But the Big East is a bit of a special case.

[clenz]

Touché. But the Big East is a bit of a special case.

Not really

Outside if basketball budget Villanova's conference set up is very similar to that of every MVFC school

[GManFromTigerland]

My issue is that FCS status is defined by what it is not, not by what it is. Specifically you are in FCS if 1) you are D-I in basketball, 2) have a football team, and 3) aren't in FBS.

There are FCS teams averaging 20-30K per game, and others averaging a few hundred.
There is teams with 63 scholarships and teams with 0 scholarships.
There are teams flying to games in chartered jets, and teams piling into school buses to drive a few miles.

I suspect most teams are happy at the FCS level, but it should be easy for those that aren't to move on ... it's their dime.
Dang I couldn't agree with your more.
I dislike the FCS due to the lack of defined standards in who qualifies to be FBS. I think if there were more set standards schools would rise to new standards. There should be a scholarship minimum count, condition of facilities should be gauged, conferences should be required to seek some sort of media deal, more diverse scheduling of games, minimum avergae physical home game attendance of 7k, across the board standard for choosing conference champions, conference champions being required to participate in tournament, fcs tournament limited only to conference champions and one independent with first round matchups being set up for rival conferences to add some fore to the tournament . . . . . . . .let's just start there.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Thumper 76]

Dang I couldn't agree with your more.
I dislike the FCS due to the lack of defined standards in who qualifies to be FBS. I think if there were more set standards schools would rise to new standards. There should be a scholarship minimum count, condition of facilities should be gauged, conferences should be required to seek some sort of media deal, more diverse scheduling of games, minimum avergae physical home game attendance of 7k, across the board standard for choosing conference champions, conference champions being required to participate in tournament, fcs tournament limited only to conference champions and one independent with first round matchups being set up for rival conferences to add some fore to the tournament . . . . . . . .let's just start there.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Absolutely, especially on the scholarship side. Make these schools invest in their program. Did some minor digging since boogs was complaining about being forced to play against fully funded teams. Well, according to my minor googling, Dayton had an athletic budget of $17 million in 09 while SDSU had a budget around $15 million and USD had just over $10 million and somehow manage to offer scholarships. They don't compete because they decide not to.

[Twentysix]

I get the need to have standards--average attendance minimum, budget minimum and so forth. But the 4 year ban on post season playoffs is a killer. If hinders recruiting, which will have an impact on program development and performance long after the four years have come and gone.

you realize that NDSU literally just went through that process? The long term negative effects couldn't be less true.

Multiple ncaa dance trips, upsets, softball and wrestling top 25, 5x national champion in football. Numerous top 10 ncaa track and field etc.

It just isn't true.

[Twentysix]

Absolutely, especially on the scholarship side. Make these schools invest in their program. Did some minor digging since boogs was complaining about being forced to play against fully funded teams. Well, according to my minor googling, Dayton had an athletic budget of $17 million in 09 while SDSU had a budget around $15 million and USD had just over $10 million and somehow manage to offer scholarships. They don't compete because they decide not to.

Its quite possible tuition is free at sdsu compared to dayton.

Some fcs schools full ride scholarships are worth like $15,000 a year and others are worth $70,000. That quickly makes budgets that aren't comparable. Tuition really varies from school to school.

[JayJ79]

Being in FCS means you sacrifice the rest of your athletic program. The chances of an FCS team winning a national title in another major sport are close to zero.

Are you saying that these schools would have a better shot of winning a national title in a non-football sport if they dropped football? I don't see that happening. The other sports would still be ruled by the P5 teams, just as they are now. I suppose some programs could have a little more success in other sports because they could redirect the budget that currently goes to football to other sports, but dropping football also means less revenue coming in. And the other sports would still be dominated by those P5 programs who get money minted by their TV contracts for football.

- - - Updated - - -


3) Ivy participation in the playoffs -- the HBCU's aren't coming back any time soon as long as the Celebration Bowl continues to generate $$$. Of course, bringing the Ivy champ in would require playoff field to remain at 24. But at least we wouldn't have 5-loss teams getting in.

Even though some of those 5-loss teams would have a good chance of beating the Ivy champ.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Even though some of those 5-loss teams would have a good chance of beating the Ivy champ.

Of course a 5-loss MVFC team would have a chance to beat the Ivy champ, maybe even 3-8 Southern Illinois. MV and NCAA champ NDSU lost to a SIX LOSS South Dakota team. That doesn't mean we should want 6-5 or 7-5 entries to be the norm...

[clenz]

Of course a 5-loss MVFC team would have a chance to beat the Ivy champ, maybe even 3-8 Southern Illinois. MV and NCAA champ NDSU lost to a SIX LOSS South Dakota team. That doesn't mean we should want 6-5 or 7-5 entries to be the norm...

Yeah, **** trying to get the best teams into the playoffs

[NY Crusader 2010]

Yeah, **** trying to get the best teams into the playoffs

According to Sagarin, Harvard and Dartmouth would have both been favored over WIU last year by 3-5 points. The year prior, Indiana State would have been favored over Harvard by about a point. Basically a wash.

[JayJ79]

According to Sagarin, Harvard and Dartmouth would have both been favored over WIU last year by 3-5 points. The year prior, Indiana State would have been favored over Harvard by about a point. Basically a wash.

like a leaf on the wind...

[NY Crusader 2010]

Yeah, **** trying to get the best teams into the playoffs

Shouldn't we also want a system where every conference champ is represented? Maybe the NCAA basketball tournament should've gone by your logic and not let Northern Iowa in (or 19-loss Holy Cross). After all, schools from bigger conferences like Ohio State, Florida, Florida State, Oregon State, Georgia, Virginia Tech and South Carolina all had better RPI.

I don't know about you but I'd much rather see UNI...

[JayJ79]

Shouldn't we also want a system where every conference champ is represented? Maybe the NCAA basketball tournament should've gone by your logic and not let Northern Iowa in (or 19-loss Holy Cross). After all, schools from bigger conferences like Ohio State, Florida, Florida State, Oregon State, Georgia, Virginia Tech and South Carolina all had better RPI.

I don't know about you but I'd much rather see UNI...
I haven't seen anyone arguing against all qualifying conferences getting an auto-bid. Some are just arguing that there should be qualifications in terms of minimum scholarships.

The current system could easily accomodate participation by the Ivies, and it isn't the FCS that is preventing that, it is the Ivy League itself.

I just don't see the point of reducing the field to 20, since you're still going to have to have Thanksgiving weekend games at that point as well. Unless the number of participating conferences drops back to 8, thus enabling a 16-team field, there is no reason to change it from 24

[NY Crusader 2010]

I haven't seen anyone arguing against all qualifying conferences getting an auto-bid. Some are just arguing that there should be qualifications in terms of minimum scholarships.

The current system could easily accomodate participation by the Ivies, and it isn't the FCS that is preventing that, it is the Ivy League itself.

I just don't see the point of reducing the field to 20, since you're still going to have to have Thanksgiving weekend games at that point as well. Unless the number of participating conferences drops back to 8, thus enabling a 16-team field, there is no reason to change it from 24

Would love to see the lesser leagues become competitive (Pioneer with some level of scholarships & PL with allowing red-shirts and getting Georgetown on the scholly wagon). Ivy League really doesn't need scholarships as with their aid packages, they're probably giving more money than any school in FCS. Probably impossible to enforce a minimum scholarship level as I don't think one exists for any Division I sport except FBS football. I'd rather see the Drakes and Daytons of the world continue to sponsor the sport with limited aid than drop it altogether.

I can't see the IL ever getting into the playoff fray as much as I'd like to see it. Totally understand the "screw the Ivies" attitude from the big boys of FCS, as TPTB at those schools want to pretend their "above" our level of second-tier football. The truth is, it's average to slightly-above-average FCS football.

In terms of the playoff field, given that ten conferences participate, allowing ten autos and ten at-large bids seems to be an easy number to go back to at 20. Plus, this will allow more deserving teams to have byes for Thanksgiving weekend.

[mvemjsunpx]

According to Sagarin, Harvard and Dartmouth would have both been favored over WIU last year by 3-5 points. The year prior, Indiana State would have been favored over Harvard by about a point. Basically a wash.

And at least one of those two would've gotten at-larges ahead of WIU if the Ivy presidents had allowed them to, so what's your point? xconfusedx

[NY Crusader 2010]

I haven't seen anyone arguing against all qualifying conferences getting an auto-bid. Some are just arguing that there should be qualifications in terms of minimum scholarships.


Wasn't under the impression anyone was arguing against conference autos -- just sounded like clenz was trying to make the point that the playoffs would be more diluted with an Ivy champ taking the spot of a 5-loss MVFC team.

FWIW, I actually think the two most UNDERRATED conferences in FCS are the Ivy and the MVFC. The Ivy League because it seems that many people don't even consider the top 1-2 teams in the Ivy to be among the top 25 in FCS (even when Sagarin has them in the top 10). And the MVFC because everyone knows it's the best conference in the country but I don't think they understand by how much. The 8th place team in the MVFC could win the Patriot League and would have a chance to beat anyone in the country in FCS.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Wasn't under the impression anyone was arguing against conference autos -- just sounded like clenz was trying to make the point that the playoffs would be more diluted with an Ivy champ taking the spot of a 5-loss MVFC team.

FWIW, I actually think the two most UNDERRATED conferences in FCS are the Ivy and the MVFC. The Ivy League because it seems that many people don't even consider the top 1-2 teams in the Ivy to be among the top 25 in FCS (even when Sagarin has them in the top 10). And the MVFC because everyone knows it's the best conference in the country but I don't think they understand by how much. The 8th place team in the MVFC could win the Patriot League and would have a chance to beat anyone in the country in FCS.

...GOOD FO' DUH 8TH PLACE TEAM..........BUT........IN PLAYOFFS.....ILLINOIS STATE COODN'T BEAT RICHMOND....IN DUH CORNFIELDS UH ILLINOIS....&....SOUFF DAKOTAH STATE........COODN'T DO MONTANA........xchinscratchx.......BRAWK!

ps...NORFF DAKOTAH STATE......LOST TA DUH GRIZZWOLDS...ON OPENIN' DAY.......AWK!

[clenz]

Shouldn't we also want a system where every conference champ is represented? Maybe the NCAA basketball tournament should've gone by your logic and not let Northern Iowa in (or 19-loss Holy Cross). After all, schools from bigger conferences like Ohio State, Florida, Florida State, Oregon State, Georgia, Virginia Tech and South Carolina all had better RPI.

I don't know about you but I'd much rather see UNI...

Where did I argue against any conference getting an invite?

Though what's it tell you when the 5 loss MVFC team that everyone hates being in is basically considered even in the computers that had the Ivy teams in the top 10 and more than a few AGS voters had in the top 10

[NY Crusader 2010]

Though what's it tell you when the 5 loss MVFC team that everyone hates being in is basically considered even in the computers that had the Ivy teams in the top 10 and more than a few AGS voters had in the top 10

Tells me that the Valley somehow still manages to be underrated. IIRC SIU was top 25 in the computers at 3-8.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Tells me that the Valley somehow still manages to be underrated. IIRC SIU was top 25 in the computers at 3-8.

.......WHIFF UH LOSS TA.............OUT-UH-CONFERENCE SEMO.....WHOM WAS UH WHOPPIN' 4-7....SO MUCH...FO' MVFC BOTTOM FEEDERS........RULIN' DUH WORLD.......BRAWK!

[clenz]

SIU had the offense to beat anyone up and down the field until they cried for mercy. They just had no defense. Most junior high teams could move the ball on them.

Think of SIU last year like EWU most years. Difference being rather than getting UC Davis, Weber State, Idaho State, Cal Poly, NAU, UND in conference play they got NDSU, ISUr, UNI and SDSU who were all top 10 caliber defenses and we're all top 10-13 quality teams.

[jmufan999]

I was impressed with Withers when he first came to JMU. But as time went on, he become more condescending and irascible at his press conferences, like he really didn't want to be there. Considering the FBS school he went to, and the timing of his departure, it seems like he just rode Vad Lee as far as would take him and then jumped ship at the very first FBS opportunity that came his way.

slight correction: he was actually a condescending douchebag from the moment he got there. my family asked what I thought of him very early on, and I said I really don't like him personally. that said, I don't really care if I like the JMU coach. I want to win, so I loved that he produced a winning team. but he is kind of a douchebag.

on your second point, I called that halfway through the season. I knew that Vad was carrying the team and there was bound to be a drop-off after he left. Withers' stock was never going to be higher than it was with Vad, not for a while anyway. it was smart for him to leave, as much as I didn't like the timing. hard to blame a guy that's going to double his salary. again, JMU fans aren't really being reasonable on this either, not that I'm surprised.

[Casey_Orourke]

I don't like the fact that FBS players can transfer to an FCS program and not sit out a season before playing. It actually has a negative effect on FCS recruiting from two perspectives. HS seniors who are a better fit at the FCS level can take a shot at FBS football knowing they can transfer without losing a year of eligibility. FCS schools with a history of bringing in a large number of FBS transfers are correspondingly breaking commitments to the players who chose an FCS program from the start and worked hard to earn playing time. Any coach or relative assisting a college prospect considering schools, should explain this fact to the kids they are advising.

I managed to find and listen to the podcast of the Portland State / North Texas game. When they interviewed Bruce Barnum, the announcer made a big deal about Portland State having 15 transfer students from FBS schools on the roster (most of them, I believe, came in under Nigel Burton). Barnum mentioned that when he started recruiting he said he had as many as 72 transfer students who wanted to come to Portland State. He said he interviewed them, found out why they wanted to leave, and may not have gotten the best ones athletically, but he got the ones he felt would best fit into his system.

Bruce Barnum interview starts at 0:15:45
http://www.kntu.com/podcast/UNTFB-20151010-PStateVNT.mp3